How does Covid affect Hunting? - Discuss
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
Pat Lefemine 19-May-20
TrapperKayak 19-May-20
bigeasygator 19-May-20
Paul@thefort 19-May-20
KY EyeBow 19-May-20
Will 19-May-20
midwest 19-May-20
ground hunter 19-May-20
IdyllwildArcher 19-May-20
ahunter76 19-May-20
Bowbender 19-May-20
Bake 19-May-20
badbull 19-May-20
KSflatlander 19-May-20
elkmtngear 19-May-20
ki-ke 19-May-20
IdyllwildArcher 19-May-20
Deertick 19-May-20
Buffalo1 19-May-20
cnelk 19-May-20
IdyllwildArcher 19-May-20
Box 19-May-20
'Ike' 19-May-20
Bowboy 19-May-20
BC 19-May-20
Eric Vaillancourt 19-May-20
Kevin Dill 19-May-20
bigswivle 19-May-20
ryanrc 19-May-20
Irishman 19-May-20
Old School 19-May-20
Jaquomo 20-May-20
Tyler 20-May-20
Shawn 20-May-20
Whip 20-May-20
Oryx35 20-May-20
Kevin Dill 20-May-20
Brotsky 20-May-20
svrelk 20-May-20
South Farm 20-May-20
HH 20-May-20
Stekewood 20-May-20
Will 20-May-20
SaddleReaper 20-May-20
grizz 20-May-20
Outdoorsdude 20-May-20
K Cummings 20-May-20
newfi1946moose 20-May-20
12yards 20-May-20
Brotsky 20-May-20
Irishman 20-May-20
TD 20-May-20
K Cummings 20-May-20
HH 20-May-20
HH 20-May-20
12yards 20-May-20
Bowbender 20-May-20
Rob Nye 20-May-20
Jaquomo 20-May-20
Shuteye 20-May-20
cnelk 20-May-20
bigeasygator 20-May-20
HDE 20-May-20
bigeasygator 20-May-20
HH 20-May-20
APauls 20-May-20
12yards 20-May-20
12yards 20-May-20
Shawn 20-May-20
IdyllwildArcher 20-May-20
Bowbender 20-May-20
HH 20-May-20
RK 20-May-20
TD 20-May-20
IdyllwildArcher 21-May-20
BC 21-May-20
Shawn 21-May-20
midwest 21-May-20
K Cummings 21-May-20
HH 21-May-20
Shawn 21-May-20
Junior 21-May-20
Jaquomo 21-May-20
Will 21-May-20
K Cummings 21-May-20
Jaquomo 21-May-20
Kevin Dill 21-May-20
Irishman 21-May-20
JayZ 21-May-20
x-man 21-May-20
Jaquomo 21-May-20
Jeff Pals 21-May-20
Irishman 21-May-20
K Cummings 21-May-20
TD 21-May-20
Wirehair 21-May-20
x-man 21-May-20
Ace 21-May-20
Charlie Rehor 21-May-20
K Cummings 21-May-20
HH 21-May-20
Bowbender 21-May-20
elkmtngear 21-May-20
x-man 21-May-20
azelkhntr 21-May-20
Junior 21-May-20
grizz 21-May-20
HDE 21-May-20
IdyllwildArcher 21-May-20
Jaquomo 21-May-20
K Cummings 21-May-20
Dutch oven 21-May-20
BC 21-May-20
Jaquomo 21-May-20
itshot 21-May-20
Shawn 21-May-20
RK 21-May-20
Ambush 21-May-20
Deertick 21-May-20
ground hunter 22-May-20
IdyllwildArcher 22-May-20
K Cummings 22-May-20
HH 22-May-20
K Cummings 22-May-20
K Cummings 22-May-20
Deertick 22-May-20
HH 22-May-20
HDE 22-May-20
12yards 22-May-20
K Cummings 22-May-20
TD 22-May-20
Jaquomo 22-May-20
K Cummings 22-May-20
HH 22-May-20
grizz 22-May-20
midwest 22-May-20
IdyllwildArcher 22-May-20
azelkhntr 22-May-20
HH 22-May-20
Owl 22-May-20
K Cummings 23-May-20
K Cummings 23-May-20
HH 23-May-20
x-man 23-May-20
Trophyhill 23-May-20
Kevin Dill 23-May-20
HH 23-May-20
Jaquomo 23-May-20
grizz 24-May-20
Bowbender 24-May-20
Jaquomo 24-May-20
K Cummings 24-May-20
Bowbender 24-May-20
Owl 24-May-20
Ambush 24-May-20
azelkhntr 24-May-20
MarkU 24-May-20
4nolz@work 24-May-20
4nolz@work 24-May-20
IdyllwildArcher 26-May-20
archeryav 26-May-20
Kevin Dill 26-May-20
midwest 26-May-20
Grey Ghost 26-May-20
Will 26-May-20
Brotsky 26-May-20
Norseman 26-May-20
Mint 26-May-20
IdyllwildArcher 26-May-20
TD 26-May-20
K Cummings 26-May-20
Fuzzy 26-May-20
x-man 26-May-20
Grey Ghost 26-May-20
Mint 26-May-20
IdyllwildArcher 26-May-20
yooper89 26-May-20
IdyllwildArcher 26-May-20
Mule Power 27-May-20
K Cummings 27-May-20
Grey Ghost 27-May-20
MtnHunter 27-May-20
Grey Ghost 27-May-20
grizz 27-May-20
midwest 27-May-20
Mule Power 27-May-20
Mule Power 27-May-20
Two Feathers 28-May-20
SteveB 06-Jul-20
jingalls 06-Jul-20
Kerrbow 06-Jul-20
HDE 07-Jul-20
From: Pat Lefemine
19-May-20

Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo

Pat Lefemine's Link
In our latest feature we explore some of the impacts to hunting, outfitters and the industry in a post-coronavirus world. How's it affecting you?

From: TrapperKayak
19-May-20
It's not.

There's a possibility cougars could contract it.

From: bigeasygator
19-May-20
I work in the oil industry and we've gone through a bit of a double whammy. Beyond the Saudi/Russia production war ramping up supply, demand has obviously taken a huge hit due to COVID. Things weren't really great before these two things hit, and they've certainly made a bad situation worse.

In response, my employer has cut dividend, cut other stock incentives, and cut our bonuses to zero (my bonus was typically 25-35% of my pay). There is still a lot of uncertainty, and areas of our company have begun laying people off and there's rumblings of more to come, though nothing is confirmed just yet.

This has impacted my plans in a few ways. This year I drew an antelope tag in NM and had a mule deer hunt in SD already paid for, so I'm going to go on those. Beyond that, I'm cutting discretionary spending on gear and what not and I'm not sure what my 2021 plans will hold - it all depends on what happens to things. Right now, I'm not 100% committed to any hunts past this year and it may stay that way for next year.

From: Paul@thefort
19-May-20
No issue for me here in Colorado (retired with income). I have turkey hunted in Nebraska and now Colorado. Did some fishing and will still plan on Colorado pronghorn, elk, and deer hunt Nebraska in the fall.

Like the yearly weather and what will the weather be for 2020, we will not know the effect of C-19 or the weather has on hunting as a whole, until next year after all of the 2020 hunts/weather are over. Some have predicted it will decrease the amount of hunters in the field, or hunters going out of state, or hunters applying for limited tags.

Ask me that same question this time next year, and I might have a good answer. my best, Paul

From: KY EyeBow
19-May-20
Pat, I agree with you thoughts on this. The economy is the huge piece of the COVID 19 issue. Most all industries have been hit hard by the recession that the stay at home orders have caused. While it would appear that Wal Mart, Lowe's and Amazon are doing well, the rest of us will certainly feel/are feeling the impact and discretionary spending is the first thing to go. I hope you all have a "rainy day"/emergency fund that most financial advisors suggest, as this is the "rainy day"! I know the coronavirus doesn't impact our "drive" to hunt, but all of the collateral damage it causes will definitely be a barrier, at least for a while. Stay healthy!

From: Will
19-May-20
Loved this Pat - well written article. Fingers crossed for all of you, that you stay healthy and well. It's a funky situation for my family. My wife is on the front line as a provider and I'm self employed, I've been lucky business wise thus far, we will see how that goes in the coming months. But hunting and fishing have been minimal (turkey hunting, fishing, etc) given home schooling now and what not. So It's been pretty intense in our house.

Fingers crossed things settle down, and we all have a good fall. Similarly crossed fingers one of the many vaccines hits and a year from now many have already had the vax and the economy is moving in a good direction again.

From: midwest
19-May-20
The company I work for is slow right now (aerospace and defense). I'm sure we'll be able to ride this out but I could see some layoffs as a possibility in the near future. I'm pretty cautious about spending money lately but we are eating out quite a bit because I want to support our local small business restaurants who are getting screwed right now. I leave big tips, too.

I still plan on elk hunting out west in September.

19-May-20
I am lucky retired, income, hunting etc. But this is awful, take down the best economy, rates and employment, in 8 weeks,,,WHY......something smells ......and the powers to be did this....talk about something with a bad smell, it does not add up

19-May-20
The new antibody study out of NYC is very telling: Cases are 10X what the official count is, 20% of NYC has had it. If this study is to be believed, death rate is 1.4%.

So that brings up a few things in regards hunting and demographics:

If you're healthy and under the age of 45, you don't have a lot to worry about as the death rate for this group is far less than 1%. If you're over 65, you really don't want to get this, especially if you have risk factors, the worst after age being BMI >39 and there's a fair amount of hunters in that weight range and/or age.

Will it slow anybody down? I pretty much agree with Pat's article. I think there's a chance that some blue states might cause problems. There will be some hunters that choose to curtail hunting to avoid contagion, but I think that number will be very small compared to people who just won't be able to afford to go out-of-state.

It's not affecting me (yet). I'm still working - more actually. I just bought a bunch of hunting stuff and booked 2 more bush flights because I've made 30% more money this year so far over last because I've had the opportunity to work more, but again, I'm in the minority there.

My main concern is that my transporters will fold or shut down because they're slow. I'm really afraid for my August sheep hunt because I need a small company to fly me out there and I really need to mail a lot of my hunting gear there in advance, which could screw me if they fold up operations.

There's still a bunch of draws that need to happen yet too and so there's always uncertainty with that.

Lastly, I do an out-of-state hunt with my dad every year and he turns 70 in August. This year, we were going to do a WY Pronghorn hunt. If I took him out-of-state and he got sick and something bad happened, that would be beyond tragic and my mom would never forgive me because she's already not too keen on hunting in the first place. So I'm not sure what to do there and I have to decide if I'm going to put in for the tag or not. Or maybe change plans and take him to NE to deer hunt in November instead...

My clairvoyance is poor so it's tough to make decisions when you really need a good picture of what's going to happen in the future and things are changing so rapidly.

From: ahunter76
19-May-20
I am retired so not much affecting me financially. Wife is a Registered Nurse (working) so our household well aware of virus situation. 1 Daughter RN also. We follow guidelines set but personally, I'm ready to open everything & get back to normal. I'm OLD so I'm in that vulnerable group but cannot become immune being sheltered in place. Iowa is opening things & Archery Clubs will be hosting shoots end of May. I "will" be attending & follow their guidelines set. Hunting, I still have plans for a couple out of state if allowed/possible & with son & a couple friends. I just got a IOWA DNR e-mail newsletter stating Spring Turkey season (closed 17th) set a new record harvest, up about 2000 birds. I'm guessing that is because more people were NOT WORKING & more free time to hunt (my thought). We've had 2 months of shut down to flatten the curve & now "I THINK" it's time to go for it. More shut down will not benefit working, lower, middle class (my opinion) in getting/spreading virus.. Many stupid & over step authority by "some" Gov's & leaders. Example. Menards requires everyone wear a mask upon entry or not allowed in. Lowes (same kind of business) It's customer choice & few workers wore masks. (I've been to both in 2 days & this is how it is). Dollar store, workers, no mask, gloves. Shoppers, about 1 in 5 wearing a mask. Wakmart, it's a free for all. Drive thru's, all workers mask/gloves that we have been to.

From: Bowbender
19-May-20
Ike,

"If you're healthy and under the age of 45, you don't have a lot to worry about as the death rate for this group is far less than 1%. If you're over 65, you really don't want to get this, especially if you have risk factors, the worst after age being BMI >39 and there's a fair amount of hunters in that weight range and/or age."

Isn't that more or less the same as the "regular" flu, that kills upwards of 60K people each year with nary a peep from anyone?

We were advised to put off turkey hunting for several weeks here in PA. WTF could be more social distanced than turkey hunting?

From: Bake
19-May-20
Too soon to say on all of the effects for me and mine. I've been working steadily, never closed the office, but all of my court appearances have been canceled for a while now. Just now opening back up. I foresee a busy fall for me with court appearances and trials, which will lessen the amount of time I can hunt this fall at home. I think the court schedule is going to take 6-12 months to iron out, with all of the cancellations. I normally make about 45-55 hunts at home for deer in the fall. I don't think I'm gonna have time to do that this year with my trial schedule being so out of whack. . .

My wife's a Nurse Practitioner in a pediatric clinic, and is performance based on her pay. She's cut back to 60% and it is going to have repercussions on her pay for probably 6-10 months, as she'll have to make up any deficit in her performance. She went from 25-28 kids a day to 0 in just a week. That sucks pretty big

I still plan a WY elk hunt this fall, and am hoping to draw somewhere else too.

I still have an RSA hunt scheduled, but that's pretty tenuous. . . . I expect an email any day, honestly.

Took a 20% hit on investments in a two week period. Glad I'm no where near retirement age. . . .

From: badbull
19-May-20
Thank you Pat for your comprehensive report. Travel considerations will impact my and my family's hunts this year. Because of the uncertainty of the virus situation, we have put in for less tags this year and therefore will undoubtedly hunt less. Everyone seems to be affected in some way in my family. I will likely eat a deposit that I have for an out of state hunt for me and my two sons. I feel for those that will not be able to make use of their valuable draws or special planned hunts or fishing trips. Good luck to all in their future hunting and fishing trips....... badbull

From: KSflatlander
19-May-20
Pat- Great article. I've been on the Bowsite for around 20 years and have enjoyed the virtual space you provide for us bow hunters. Much appreciated. I hope you and the Bowsite come through this situation stronger than before. You have to do what you have to do to survive. Many of us will stay with the Bowsite regardless.

Covid has not affected my work much since most of our work is on "essential" energy projects (oil/gas pipelines, transmission lines, renewable energy, etc.). We are working from home which can be hard for an old schooler who likes to interact with people but we are still doing the bio field work...never stopped.

Still planning on a September Idaho elk hunt if they don't close the season to out-of-staters. I don't see Covid stopping our annual mule deer hunt in western KS. Maybe I will be able to take Habitat for Wildlife (Frank) up on that MO deer hut invitation he so graciously extended.

I have never used an outfitter but I feel bad to them and those who had hunts planned. It just sucks to see fellow hunters with go through tough stuff.

From: elkmtngear
19-May-20
Just finished up Turkey Season out here, looking forward to August deer Season opener, then my New Mexico Elk hunt. Both my Wife and I have basically worked through this entire thing (we are both Medical Professionals).

Living 30 miles out of town has its merit...we basically haven't changed anything. The only thing affected so far, has been the 3D Shoots, My Wife and I had planned to attend quite a few.

That's just me...my personal opinion: Trying to shelter a healthy population from a virus with a 99 percent recovery rate, is fruitless, and stupid. Never before, have we shut down the entire economy, for a simple virus...or "tracked" a virus for that matter. Anyone that doesn't see a media-driven agenda to kill the current economy by spreading fear daily, is going through life with blinders on. Just an opinion, from a Medical Professional with 40 years experience.

Option 1: try to hide from this virus, only to be injected with a form of it later on when they supposedly develop a vaccine

Option two: Let healthy Americans get straight up Covid (while continuing to shelter the elderly/compromised) , and go back to work (many of us probably have already had it anyway).

I'm an "Option two" kind of guy...best option by far, to develop and maintain a healthy immune system ;^)

From: ki-ke
19-May-20
Pat-

Great piece! I design and build kitchens....I'm expecting a slower balance of 2020, but with a few investments in technology, we are experiencing a pickup in new calls the past couple weeks. As you said, we've been through 9/11 and 2008 and here we are. Adapt, continue to work hard and I believe we will be ok.

I believe we will be travelling domestically without prohibitive restrictions by September. Friends have sent pics from various airplanes and airports. Does not seem to be difficult to travel within our borders even now.

Hunting? Colorado elk is all for me, besides local whitetails. And morels, which don't really exist. Anywhere. You guys and all your pretty mushroom pics?? Fake....

19-May-20

IdyllwildArcher's embedded Photo
IdyllwildArcher's embedded Photo

From: Deertick
19-May-20
Financially, my world has a very wide list of possibilities ... and I don't like that. My employees have been great ... and I want them to all remain and thrive. The economy of Wyoming will take years to adapt, I'm afraid. "Hunting" got moved down on my list of priorities.

From: Buffalo1
19-May-20
Covid 19 Pandemic reminds me of a football game fumble- an unwanted event with a lot of players making false claims, a lot of bodies moving around in the pile, officials waving hands, nobody really knows who is on the bottom of the pile and nobody really knows who has the ball yet.

At this point, there are more unknowns than knowns. It will be a while before we really know the truth and how it will impact game momentum and possibly the outcome of game.

From: cnelk
19-May-20
Here’s the impact we will see, and have already seen.

1) This spring with so many people in ‘stay at home’ mode, there was a big increase in shed hunting and even before shed season started.

2) People are still being layed off. With states relaxing The travel restrictions, there will be lots more people hunting in the OTC areas - from archery all the way thru the rifle seasons. Just to get out and hopefully put some meat in the freezer.

All of this will affect hunting - Immediately. Guaranteed.

19-May-20
Good analogy Greg...

"Isn't that more or less the same as the "regular" flu, that kills upwards of 60K people each year with nary a peep from anyone?"

There is not "nary a peep." We spend millions upon millions of dollars on an annual Influenza vaccine campaign every year for a marginal (40%ish) effectiveness.

So, for people under 45, yeah, it's similar to a 'regular' flu. Regular flu kills babies every year. But overall, this is far worse than the regular "influenza" that we deal with each winter. Influenza has a death rate of 0.1-0.6%, depending on how bad the strain is that year. COVID appears to be 1.4% now over all ages and much higher for older folks, per the NYC antibody study. Normally, about 40,000 people, on average, die of Influenza every year, although it bounces between 25K and 60K and sometimes a bit higher. But that's all year and the flu season is from October to April (7-8 months). This has killed 90K in under 2 months (with the country shut down for most of that) and NYC, where it's been the most prevalent, is "only" at 20% exposure, per this study.

It's a nasty virus and while I'd still agree that we have to move on and can't stay locked in our homes for the next 18 months, it should not be compared with the flu because it's something different and much worse.

Here's the math: It takes 2/3 of a population to develop herd immunity. 2/3 of the U.S. population is 220 million people. 1.4% of 220 million is 3 million and that's if people have adequate access to care.

Right now in Mexico, Uruguay, and Brazil, people are dying because they can't get quality care that we're getting here because their medical systems are over run. The entire idea of the stay-at-home order was to keep the medical system from being over run and while I can understand that back in late March, we have more data now and we have to realize that we're not going to be able to make this go away, no matter how long we stay at home.

Honestly, I think those at risk should be advised to avoid contact with those who aren't (although it's a free country and they shouldn't be held criminally liable) and those who aren't at great risk should go back to work/school with the best precautions we have - honestly, wearing a mask is no big deal; making an effort to social distance is no big deal. It'll slow it down a tad and we can get on with our lives.

Back to hunting, I'm 41 and I'll be flying several times for hunting this fall so long as I'm allowed to and it won't harm my conscious at all doing so, although I will wear a mask when in public and try and keep my hands clean, etc.

Honestly, I just want to get it and get it over with because I don't want to get it and then be out in the Brook's Range by myself and start to show symptoms. I got antibody tested last week: Negative.

From: Box
19-May-20
I just let my lease owner know I couldn’t afford to renew for this coming season which brought a tear to my eye. I would have cancelled my September Colorado elk hunt but I have already paid for hotel and half of fees and I’m the ringleader in planning this hunt with 3 lifelong friends.

It’s been crushing to me and my small business that we have built up over the last 6 years to have it pretty much running itself with some very talented staff. It all disappeared over the course of 3 days in March and it’s a type of business that will struggle to recover and most likely won’t.

Never been depressed before but thinking that’s what I’m feeling now.

From: 'Ike'
19-May-20
Nothing for my Spring Turkey season here, it went well with two birds down...As far as everything else, the 'Draws' so far have taken care of that with 0-3 so far, with NV and CA to go! Lol....Then it'll just depend going into Summer/Fall (Opener here and NV if drawn!) and then POW in Nov...Still planning as if normal and will adapt as we go!

From: Bowboy
19-May-20
Not affecting me at all here in WY. I also applied for my IA deer tag. Been fishing a lot.

From: BC
19-May-20
I'm semi retired, working 20 hours a week and most of that from home lately. Luckily the job has not been impacted at all other than face mask requirements etc. No change financially.

I understand the concern and realize that we should take precautions but I'm convinced the media is whipping up a hysteria for ratings and to assist the Dems. They would rather wreck the economy than see Trump reelected. Every news cast is wall to wall covid 19. Every story has a virus angel. It's over the top.

I'm hunting at home this year and still buying points for future hunts. Hopefully we'll be back to normal soon. Good luck out there.

19-May-20
I am fine in general. So far, an elephant hunt has been moved to next year and a spring bear hunt may turn into a fall bear hunt. I am still hopeful that my NWT sheep hunt happens, who knows?

My work life has changed considerable and permanently. I have traveled between 42-48 weeks a year for the last 10 years. I will reduce my travel to less than 10 weeks a year in the future.

All of my boards meetings have already been scheduled for Zoom for all of 2021. That alone will eliminate 12 weeks of travel.

I suspect air travel will never be the same. I expect many business meetings will be done virtually in the future. We have already invested in robots to do manufacturing line audits and are working on virtual reality training tools.

The virus situation has created the opportunity to imagine and prepare for the future. Our business is healthy and so are all of my employees, ( around 1500). The virus has claimed 5 employee family members and I had one personal friend that passed away.

As Pat correctly points out, the view in the virus is very different depending on where you are sitting.

Please stay safe.

From: Kevin Dill
19-May-20
I don’t have any trouble keeping all this in correct perspective. I will hunt as usual if 1) there is nothing legally stopping it and 2) I feel that the threat of illness is extremely small and manageable. If I can’t/don’t travel to hunt this year, I will be 100% fine and just as happy. My health is a top priority, and not optional. Hunting is just one of the things that gives me enjoyment every year. If I can’t do it (as much) I’ll focus on the other things. I certainly won’t let it make me unhappy.

From: bigswivle
19-May-20
Put in for my usual points and drew a Montana combo tag. Gonna take my wife on her first out of state hunting trip to her family’s place in MT. Still have my lease in Illinois but don’t know if I will even go. I’m in the produce business, so between Mexico and the Kung flu, it’s been a sh$$ty year so far. Opportunity will hopefully be there next year.

From: ryanrc
19-May-20
My buddy invited me Turkey hunting and i was able to go because of working from home. So that was really cool as i have never spring Turkey hunted. Also, working fron home and not be able to go work out at the gym or not have to take my kids to sports practice has really impacted my fishing and hunt planning. I haven't fished this much in a long time. Also, i just planned a hunt i have been saying i was going to do for years. Sitting around all day watching hunting videos with no place else to go has made my planning and scouting more intense. . So to that end it has impacted my hunting a lot. Time will tell for me on the economic impact.

From: Irishman
19-May-20
As far as hunting goes, I don't think it will have any effect on me. I live in Montana, and hunt in Montana, and all seasons appear to be going forward as usual. Outside of wearing a mask at Costco, it's pretty much life as usual. I'm not sure that we are in a "post-coronavirus" world or ever will be, I think it is here to stay, and we are just going to have to live with it and adapt. Like Pat, when I first saw the stories about Coronavirus in China, I just blew it off and never thought it could spread the way that it did. Even after seeing all the stories about how quickly the Chinese were building hospitals, I still pretty much ignored it. However, I would like to think that the "experts" in government in the US and Europe, would have shut down travel much faster. As the virus spread, I was really surprised that international travel was allowed to continue. Looks to me like just about every country botched this.

From: Old School
19-May-20
Hunting wise I don’t know how this will impact me. OTC elk hunt - I’m hopeful but not sure. If it doesn’t happen for whatever reason, it’s not the end of the world. Plan B is I’ll setup camp here in MO and do a little more deer hunting instead.

Who knows just how long it takes us to recover economically and what happens when cases start spiking again in late fall.

Life is a gift from God and a vapor that lasts just a little while. I intend to live my life to the fullest while I have breath.

-Mitch

From: Jaquomo
20-May-20
Thanks for this, Pat. I'm being interviewed on a podcast tomorrow on this very topic, and your perspective provides much food for thought. Where I live, we have two cases (that we know of) but the nonstop media saturation has fanned a fear like we're facing the Black Plague. So many variables to consider not just for hunting, but for LIFE. Thanks for posting this, and I would gladly pay a higher monthly Bowsite subscription for the features you suggest! ;-)

From: Tyler
20-May-20
It looks like my 2020 buffalo season in Australia will be a complete wash. There is talk that our state borders may open in July so I don't see inbound International travel happening soon after that. with my season due to finish August 15th its simply not going to be feasible to run hunts. If state borders open and I can find a good number of last minute Australian hunters I may do a month worth of hunts. Normally following my buff season I return to Canada to guide. This year due to my current visa situation I was not going to be able to return for the season having said that my first 2 weeks of guiding in Late August early September for Muskox in the NWT have been cancelled as the NWT does not plan to open its borders for the foreseeable future. I will be very surprised to see any international travel in 2020. With No work I will be spending more time with my Fiancee doing some fishing and a bit of hunting locally, without a job I gotta watch my $$$.

From: Shawn
20-May-20
My concern is that most viruses re-emerge in the fall. If this one comes back anywhere close to what it is like or was like than I believe a lot of our planned out of state hunts will be effected. I know most folks are things getting a lot better, not for me. I still work where we have 31 infected residents and close to that many staff members. Due to where I work I still have very limited contact with folks outside of my work place as I fear for others safety not my own. I hope everything gets better for everyone real soon and everyone gets to go on all their hunts and enjoy them!! I am sorry I still have my doubts when it comes to fall! Shawn

From: Whip
20-May-20
So far it has cost me a Georgia hog hunt last month but that's about it. I know that we are among the fortunate that haven't been drastically affected because we are retired and live in a rural area that has seen fairly minimal impact.

I have an Alaskan moose hunt scheduled for September and naturally am very concerned about that one. Travel restrictions could throw the whole thing in the toilet. And while Alaska itself looks to be pretty safe at this point I don't relish the thought of boarding a commercial flight right now. On the plus side booking that flight was a lot cheaper than I would have expected and airline policies on refunds are reassuring in that I'm not going to lose that money if I can't make the trip.

I had originally planned to apply in Iowa this year but we decided to put that one off. Most likely the rest of my fall will consist of hunting here at home. I watch the numbers daily and keep hoping that the recent slight downward trends accelerate. I want to see the country get back to work - this is destroying the dreams and lives of too many. I just hope people continue to use common sense and stay as safe as possible. Reports from the bar scene here in Wisconsin last weekend make me really concerned though. There are a lot of people for whom common sense is apparently not an option.

From: Oryx35
20-May-20
With a newborn, we've been taking the safety precautions seriously, but we are lucky in that we are still employed in stable/flexible careers and industry (defense and medical). Going to the hospital for the birth at the peak of the New Mexico coronavirus cases was quite interesting.

I have New Mexico bear and deer (draw) hunts lined up that are less than an hour from the house. As long as the family is healthy, I will be spending significant time in the field for those hunts. Right now, I have the entire 15 day January archery deer season off from work. Working from home has had it's pros and cons for getting into the field. The work schedule is more flexible, but child care has been a lot more difficult. In addition to the in state hunts, I am also planning a week of Texas whitetail hunting. Things would have to get really bad to stop that hunt, as my buddy and I are able to drive to that hunt with almost no human interaction.

With respect to applications being down, we actually saw the exact opposite here in New Mexico. As has happened the last several years, we set a new record for applications. The local news ran stories on new applicants that decided to apply as a means of providing for their family. Recent food supply chain issues have people rethinking the home grown, harvested, killed self-sufficient mentality that so many hunters have ingrained in their very nature.

Although not a frequent poster, I've hung out on Bowsite for at least 20 years. I'd be happy to pay a premium membership if that is what Pat decides is required to keep Bowsite healthy and prosperous moving forward.

From: Kevin Dill
20-May-20
Whip: Congratulations on your upcoming moose hunt!

From: Brotsky
20-May-20

Brotsky's embedded Photo
Brotsky's embedded Photo
This pretty much sums it up :)

From: svrelk
20-May-20

svrelk's embedded Photo
svrelk's embedded Photo
svrelk's embedded Photo
svrelk's embedded Photo
svrelk's embedded Photo
svrelk's embedded Photo
It cost the company I work for several local jobs forcing me to work away from home.. area is good coyote country so I've been spending my evenings doing a little calling... Killed 3 last week.. so here you go CNN.. more Covid deaths to add to your body count!

From: South Farm
20-May-20
Looks more like lead poisoning than corona, svrelk. Keep up the good work!

From: HH
20-May-20
That's to bad Pat on your Farm loss. Curious your going to raise fees here during the Wuhan Virus pandemic. When industry is hammered most places and Insurance Industry is giving rate cuts your thinking of Pay for services. I guess you got to make up for it somehow.

Early On during the China Virus hit I started several threads hear trying to warn folks in all outdoor bow hunting world to do what you can to take this serious. I think those threads could have got our bow bretheren here thinking and planning instead of reacting. A shame really.

Early 2020 was not doing just very well. Its was Historically the Top of the World! When I saw this the Third Virus outta China quickly jump to Japan/ Korea I knew right then it was on and it would crush world markets. I sold it all, in Jan the entire Portfolio of 35yrs, poof gone. As I knew with the march of the Wuhan would come I knew the markets would freak and they did, March 16th and I bought my Financials Back and some new ones that the POTUS himself was telling us the GVT would use.

Retired on GVT pension and the Wuhan has really messed up this world but I tried to look thru the event and help my family out. It worked.

I took it very serious. Still am but the data does not bear out what we and companies have done to themselves. Hunting will be fine, outfitters will use work arounds. Some folks in hunting industries will close up just like some folks will die because of the CV19.

My hunts will go. Have my high country pard in ID and MT right now scouting checking roads and trails for winter/ spring damage. Lots of elk and plenty bulls spotted already. Sound be good fall hunting.

Keep yer chin up bowmen.

K~

From: Stekewood
20-May-20
I am in retail with my three brothers and when Pennsylvania started with the shut down it was a VERY scary time for my family. I had just purchased a new property weeks before it started and we were headed into the busiest couple of months of the year. Closing down for months was a devastating proposition.

While we did have to close our store, we were able to continue with online order fulfillment and delivery. We adapted to the new situation and made some significant changes and as a result, that part of our business has grown significantly and will likely change the way we do things forever. We are hoping to come out of this stronger than we were before it started.

This will be the first year that I can remember that I will not be going on a hunt. I had an Africa hunt booked for September that fell through and right now don't have the confidence to book anything else for the immediate future. Will focus on getting the new property fixed up, hunting PA and NY whitetails, and maybe finally get down to MD to try for sika deer.

Once the smoke clears it will be time to burn some points and get the rest of the bucket list taken care of.

From: Will
20-May-20

Will's Link
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2766121

On the flu v covid thing. It's not close if we apply the same approach. The flu death toll is based on a metric. This is really only talked about by epidemiologists, and frankly, I'd never have known if my wife (was an epidemiologist, now a provider) didnt explain it to me... and then I read this paper the other day that explains further.

The cliff notes (Ike, correct this cliff note if it's wrong) is that flu deaths are calculated by taking the known deaths and multiplying by almost 6 to get a value.

For example, if 40K people are listed as dead from the flu it's actually more like 6-7K (if counted the same way COVID19 cases currently are counted. This is due to a host of legit reasons. But due to lots more data and knowledge of the illness (Influenza vs. SARS-CoV2-2019), these calculations can be made.

The article linked from JAMA is the best one I've seen to describe this in really straight forward terms.

End point though, is that COVID19 is a LOT worse than the normal seasonal influenzas we have dealt with for a long time, and as Ike noted, its really bad news for certain age groups and health status's.

That does not mean re-opening shouldnt be happening, or that it shouldnt be going forward. Just that the comparison to the flu is not close, COVID19 is a lot more dangerous.

From: SaddleReaper
20-May-20
Pat- Good write up.

I'll add some "insider" info since I work for one of those NY based manufacturers of hunting/ shooting sports equipment.

During March and April we saw demand for crossbows and airguns spike. If inventory was not cleared out, it was already accounted for. Customer service was literally fielding questions about using crossbows and airguns for home defense.... Of course at that time all NY gun shops and big box stores had lines backed up to purchase any firearm available. I wouldn't be surprised to see an influx of crossbows, airguns and firearms for sale after the dust settles.

Good luck to those who this hit hardest. I was able to remain employed from home...and for that it am very thankful.

From: grizz
20-May-20
My wife and I are retired and both draw SS so the economic impact for us has been solely the rising cost of essential goods. As far as my personal life, there has been very little impact. I do not ware a mask, I do not refuse to shake hands nor do I socially distance. I'm 68 years old and have lived all 68 as a free American and intend to continue that practice. Before I hear the "you don't know the effects of the virus " crowd, yes I do. I have close family on the front lines in this mess.

I realize there will be far ranging effects on our economy and have concerns for that. As far as my ability to hunt in my home state, that will not be effected as the excellent leadership of our state does not consider hunting and fishing a risk factor. I do have expectations of a bit more hunting pressure this year but that's ok as our public land pressures here are pretty light.

I do feel for the folks who live and hunt in states that are less friendly to the hunting community. And are also so stupid to believe that a few people in the woods on a hunt somehow violates their social distancing regulations. I for one am ready to see things open up and return to our Constitutional Rights. I hope for all, health and prosperity in the coming year. For those who disagree, that's ok, you have that right but I will continue on as I have always done. God bless and good hunting to all.

From: Outdoorsdude
20-May-20
I just read a thread (elsewhere) where Arizona called a guy yesterday and offered him an elk tag, Unit 22 first rifle, he was 'next on the list' and someone "turned it back in". Yeah, this mess is going to have an effect! An outfitter I have worked for on and off for the last 15yrs. has had about $60K in cancellations --people whose lives have so altered that they are walking away from their deposits, they are that desperate. You know, after Carter pulled that BS with the wheat market, it took decades for some farmers to recover... some preferred suicide...

From: K Cummings
20-May-20
Since I primarily hunt at my own camp here in northern lower Michigan, I don't expect the virus or the fallout from it to affect me at all (unless of course I contract it and die and in that case, I won't be too concerned about the hunting aspect of it).

As to the economics, my wife and I are fortunate in that we are both still working because we want to, not because we have to, so if that ended tomorrow, we are prepared and able to simply retire and have enough assets to do so.

As to long term impact of what we've done to "control" the virus, I suspect we will be feeling it to a certain extent for decades...especially the small business sector.

Someone said earlier:

" There is not "nary a peep." We spend millions upon millions of dollars on an annual Influenza vaccine campaign every year for a marginal (40%ish) effectiveness."

While this is true, we still end up losing tens of thousands of people in the US every year to the flu, and also don't shut down an entire economy in the process.

We do what we can, accept the risk to our most vulnerable populations, try to protect them accordingly, and go about business as usual.

Even during the H1N1 situation in 2009 where approximately 1.4 BILLION people were infected and over 500,000 people died world wide, nobody suggested we shut down an entire economy in order to stop the spread. We freaked out, for a variety of reasons, some valid and some not, and we (future generations actually) will be paying for it for a long time.

I truly believe that with hindsight being 20/20, we will look back on our response to this virus (which we had to do initially as we didn't know where it would lead and what kind of impact it would have on our HC system) as one of the biggest economic, as well as scientific mistakes in history.

KPC

20-May-20
Killed our spring bear hunt to Quebec for 2020...moved it to 2021. Beyond that, being retired gives a steady income that must be carefully managed but comfortable. Somewhat worried that our outfitter will not survive.

From: 12yards
20-May-20
On flu vs C-19, I wonder how many flu deaths there would be if we moved people with the flu into nursing homes. Interesting. On my hunting. I have no plans to change unless the state(s) I plan to hunt say I can't come.

From: Brotsky
20-May-20
"I truly believe that with hindsight being 20/20, we will look back on our response to this virus (which we had to do initially as we didn't know where it would lead and what kind of impact it would have on our HC system) as one of the biggest economic, as well as scientific mistakes in history."

And yet we still have not "done enough" according to many on the left.....

From: Irishman
20-May-20
12yards, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Flu is always a big issue with nursing homes. My mother in law spent her final years in a nursing home, and every time that there were cases of flu there, they put the nursing home on lockdown, no visitors allowed. Lock down is nothing new in dealing with virus, just we haven't been in a position where it has effected us in the past.

From: TD
20-May-20
So many folks laid off here and hunting hard.... the poachers are complaining about poachers.....

WRT sick and dead.... I haven't seen much of anything here....in fact the hospital is EMPTY and they are literally trolling for any kind of elective possible, a buddy was called out of the blue for a hip replacement they were CONTEMPLATING before all this hit. He actually negotiated a better deal to have it done now.

Outside of NYC from all I see and hear it's much the same across the country. Take a city so tightly packed folks essentially have to mud wrestle with people every day and that's a tragedy. But the stats I've seen say they account for more than the entire rest of the US combined. The economic devastation and everything associated with it will be FAR greater than the virus, here anyway. Far greater.

Add to the mix psycho power mad control freaks and paranoid delusionals that are "taking charge" running some states and they will have made things far worse than they needed to, "Hey! Are you walking on the wet sand or the dry sand!" and " you're under arrest for selling black market tomato seeds...." And pot stores are promoted to essential services.....

I'm with K on this one. Hindsight is going to be pretty eye opening as to how this went down..... who really is using the facts and science and who really has the best interests of the country rather than their own consolation of power as a priority.

WRT hunting.... I'm hunting. In any and every way available to me at every opportunity.

From: K Cummings
20-May-20
"12yards, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Flu is always a big issue with nursing homes. My mother in law spent her final years in a nursing home, and every time that there were cases of flu there, they put the nursing home on lockdown, no visitors allowed. Lock down is nothing new in dealing with virus, just we haven't been in a position where it has effected us in the past."

I can't speak for 12yards but to me the point is quite clear. When you have a flu outbreak, you "lock down" (as you call it) the most vulnerable populations (such as nursing homes), not the entire nation.

"Lock down" for nursing homes is nothing new. "Lock down" for everyone is unprecedented.

KPC

From: HH
20-May-20
That may be KPC bit it also made folks Billions if not Trillions. Was not the big boyz either not Buffet, Soros, or old money (not the original 12 of the fed). New guys, young guys, folks with vision and could see in fog of lies by the Vacciners. This is you Gates and Fauci in Party. Vaccine patent chasers. More than anything in the Universe they want patent rights to the Wuhan Vaccine! Better than death or taxes cuz it lasts an eternity. Beats, Apple, MS, Walmart, all of em.

Its funny. You make a big call correct and you got guys sending you legal sized registered mail. Same guys who would let you flush you lifes work down the virus hole. Ken Fisher ..... The Wuhan Kid did it the dirt Soljah way!!

K

From: HH
20-May-20
Hindsight is great and in 50yrs you may learn something from using it. My line of work for years if you lived on hindsight you were not around long.

You could of subscribed to Ken Fishers Portfolio strategy for 20yrs and you still be worth 1/4 what you were in Jan 2020! Using you gut senses from years traveling chitholes worldwide may have just this time worked in spades.

Did not hurt to be overseas on 13 March coming home to mainland that really secured in my mind when bottom would be. Was three days later i pulled the trigger!

K

K

From: 12yards
20-May-20
I guess my point was, a high percentage of deaths in the US and other countries have been Covid 19 in nursing homes. Over 80% in MN. In some states and countries, people infected with C19 were put in these nursing homes and killed a lot of people. We don't put people with the flu in nursing homes intentionally. I don't think. Did we inflate C19 deaths by doing this? I do believe this is deadlier than flu, but we didn't really protect old folks in these facilities very well.

From: Bowbender
20-May-20
WRT nursing homes....My wife was a nurse in several prior to moving to one of our hospitals. She mentioned that the nursing homes that had strict flu lock down policies in place prior to COVID experienced few on no fatalities.

Here in PA 70% of our fatalities were in nursing homes. This was after our governor and man/lady health secretary mandated that nursing homes had to take in "medically stable" COVID residents. Result? 3,100 out of 4,600 deaths were in nursing homes. Yet, prisoners are released so as no to contract it.

Unprecedented indeed.

From: Rob Nye
20-May-20
Good assessment of the situation Pat. For the first time in 3 + decades I am not guiding Spring bear hunters and it is very strange. Keeping busy with lodge renovations instead and it sucks ass compared to playing with bears. The wife of 20 years said, “So that is what you look like in the Spring.” We normally hardly see each other in April and May and never in June when I’m in remote northern camps. Am pretty confident that we will have a Fall season but I put in for lots of SK draw tags in case I actually get some time to hunt for once.

From: Jaquomo
20-May-20
Colorado just revised the official COVID death rate way down. The state health department was being hammered by some doctors who saw patients die from other causes being listed as "COVID deaths". How much of this is due to the "COVID bonus" Medicare pays to hospitals, we will never know. Just as we will never know the true infection/death/survival rate.

What we do know is that far more people will see their livelihoods damaged or destroyed by the reaction, than will actually die from complications from the disease.

From: Shuteye
20-May-20

Shuteye's embedded Photo
Shuteye's embedded Photo
Good article Pat. I am 78 years old and retired. Since I was 30 years old I have taken four shot of insulin a day so I have to be careful of the virus. However I own the woods I live in and can walk out my back door to deer hunt, turkey hunt or squirrel hunt. Ducks and geese fly right over my garden. I have to kill some deer to keep kale in my garden in the Fall. Also have to control ground hogs in my garden. A Walther P 22 does a good job at that.

From: cnelk
20-May-20
It’s been my experience that nursing homes were always meant for the ‘final years’.

From: bigeasygator
20-May-20
In some states and countries, people infected with C19 were put in these nursing homes and killed a lot of people.

Where in the USA were people with C-19 put in nursing homes intentionally?

From: HDE
20-May-20

HDE's Link
BEG - generic search brings this and others up...

From: bigeasygator
20-May-20
Thanks HDE. Looks like it was a few states that said nursing homes weren’t allowed to refuse the patients.

From: HH
20-May-20
Maybe a pay for CF would get more hits. Who knows.

Wuhan Daze!

K

From: APauls
20-May-20
Yes the economic impact due to the virus has way larger hunting implications than then fear over the virus IMO.

From: 12yards
20-May-20
bigeasygator, NY for sure.

From: 12yards
20-May-20

12yards's Link
MN too.

From: Shawn
20-May-20
Some guys are funny. I work in a large nursing home and the seasonal flus cause nowhere near as many deaths as this. We loose 6 to 8 people a year from the flu. This virus had killed 40 plus in 6 weeks and we still as of today have 31 active cases of Covid 19. This virus is way deadlier than any flu which in a bad year an entire year may kill 30 thousand people, this had killed over 90 thousand in 10 weeks. If we did not social distance and lock down some say over 300 thousand up to 500 thousand. It will kill over 100 k by August. Again as pertaining to this post. If it comes back in Sept/Oct I believe it will have a pretty big impact on Oct and Nov hunts. I pray it doesn't but! Shawn

20-May-20
"It will kill over 100 k by August."

August? It'll kill over 100K by July and probably by mid June... 7 day average is still 1000/d and we're at 93.5K already...

Still, it isn't going anywhere. We can't stay in our houses for the next 12-18 months. We just need to do what we can to keep it out nursing homes. It's sad, but this thing is going to end the lives of many of our elderly.

From: Bowbender
20-May-20

Bowbender's Link
Big,

"Where in the USA were people with C-19 put in nursing homes intentionally?"

Here in PA. 70% of our deaths were in nursing homes. Id say a fair amount are directly attributable to our governor and his man/lady health secretary directives (read that as mandate) to take in "medically stable" COVID patients.

From: HH
20-May-20
Yep

Bunch of chitty Govs and Mayors who have no bidness running waste treatment facilities much less states and metropolitan area cities. One look at a competent CEO look no further than FL!

He knew the ramifications of his age populations and protected them.

Turned folks away right in I 95. Told em No entry. Now all ya Civil Libs dont get bent outta shape over that. Save up for when your nutty Govs line you up for mandatory Wuhan Virus Vaccinations!

Best thing you can do is take that Virus $ the Gvt gave you and spend it all in your locale small businesses. Or book a hunt!

K

From: RK
20-May-20
The one truly amazing thing that this virus has done is that it ended all other causes of death..

That's a really good thing I think

From: TD
20-May-20
ROTFLMAO!.....

gonna borrow that if ya don't mind. Be right back wid it....

21-May-20
That's hilarious

From: BC
21-May-20
Perfect.

From: Shawn
21-May-20
In NY we admitted patients into nursing homes who had the virus. Also admitted people who did not have virus and exposed them to the virus. Some of the stupid shit they did and ate still doing at my work is just unreal. We lost 21 out of 35 residents in one unit in about 10 days. Trust me I know these folks come here to actually live their remaining days but to die the way they did sucked bad. I will be in Iowa and Nebraska come late Oct as of right now! Shawn

From: midwest
21-May-20
Listening to some statistics from Ben Shapiro. The flu is far deadlier than covid if you are 25 or under. Covid gets progressively worse for older age groups. Having underlying conditions is a huge multiplier.

What this virus has exposed is how ridiculously unhealthy we Americans are. 42% obesity and all the underlying conditions that come with it.

Governor DeSantis should get a medal. Cuomo is pathetic. Yet look at how the media has the narrative backwards. Disgusting.

From: K Cummings
21-May-20
"This virus is way deadlier than any flu which in a bad year an entire year may kill 30 thousand people..."

Actually, I'm not sure that's quite accurate. Since the flu season of 2010-11, CDC statistics shows that hospitalizations from the flu averaged 445,000 per year, resulting in an average of 37,000 deaths per year.

Bear in mind, that is after 40% of the adult population received a flu shot each year over the same period.

Again, I fear (and fully expect) that when all is said and done, we will realize that the fallout from our response to this virus will be much more devastating than the virus itself.

From: HH
21-May-20
Our very best docs in this field were all saying in Jan " no need to worry not coming here". Same guys were saying masks dont work. . . . Really

Problem was most these Dem Govs believed this crap.

Was very very clear what would happen. Actually I thought the Wuhan Virus would be more lethal. But never imagined the GVT and Industry would do this to themselves. Gvt spend some much cash that 's not theirs. Those Trillions will come out our pockets eventually. Gvt does not make $ it's just collects it from us folks!

I agree we have screwed ourselves much more than this virus has. I also agree that it been wonderful that the medical world has had break through's in every other area of medicine as no one is passing away from anything but the CV-19.

K

From: Shawn
21-May-20
Sorry guys, do you really believe that if the country did nothing, no shutdown that this would of been ok? It's funny the people who say these things obviously have not had to deal with it directly and watch it literally spread like wildfire, so fast in fact here in NYC they were burying people in mass graves. It sucked what it did to the economy but it would suck a lot worse if it killed a few hundred thousand and one of them was your brother, sister, aunt. Ask Pat how bad it was here in NY, he was here at its peak! Those people in the city cannot help they live asshole to elbow cause a lot of that community cannot afford to ESCAPE NY! Shawn

From: Junior
21-May-20
Agreed Shawn! My wife is on the front line (RN). It's crazy how sick some people get with it. My fear is the quarantine deal with hunting. If you go to a state with a 14 day quarantine, you my have to over stay your vacation, Or worse, total shut down.

From: Jaquomo
21-May-20
Shawn, we all empathize with what happened in your area. Tragic. But this is not a one-size-fits-all problem. In my area we have had exactly two cases, and no deaths. TWO. Yet all the businesses are closed down, people are out of work, suffering financially, may never recover. Some small businesses may never reopen. We were under house arrest. If we had done nothing, maybe we would have had five cases? Six? Is the cure worse than the disease here? Yes.

From: Will
21-May-20
Shawn's observation is spot on based on how flu deaths are counted. Because a 37K annual flu death rate is based on a multiplier of near 6. Thus, if counted as COVID19 has been, 37,000 deaths from the flu on average per year is really 6167-7400 roughly.

I dont know that anyone has been able to say with certainty that younger people who generally do better with COVID19 do not spread it. Which is a challenge with this bug.

There has to be a steady re-opening, you cant stay locked down for ever, and that was not the point - preventing health care collapse like ITA or ESP was the goal and that seems to have been accomplished. Now it's just good care and working to manage things so no massive second wave takes off and we dont have to deal with this economically to the same degree again.

From: K Cummings
21-May-20
"Those people in the city cannot help they live asshole to elbow cause a lot of that community cannot afford to ESCAPE NY!"

Nobody is disputing that. But with all due respect, that's not the point. The point is that you do not need to shut down an entire country because of what is happening in NY, Detroit or Seattle.

That makes about as much sense as evacuating all residents of Michigan when a hurricane is bearing down on Florida, or issuing a stay at home order for people in NYC when there are riots in LA.

KPC

From: Jaquomo
21-May-20
^^^^ This

From: Kevin Dill
21-May-20
My county has had 16 cases and no deaths recorded. Ohio is headed toward 1700 deaths (soon) and over 2,000 dead this summer. Our Republican governor gave most of the health-related controls to the state's Director of Health and he backed her up. Things got shut down in a hurry. There was logic in every decision, and every decision was kept subject to change as conditions and understanding changed. The stated goals were to save Ohio lives, and prevent overwhelming the medical system with viral illness. I think both goals have been met, and now subsequent goals are in place.

Our county has suffered, just like every other county. But my personal take on this is that the quick statewide shutdown is the one reason so many rural counties were spared. I won't speculate on a death count here, except to say it couldn't get any lower than zero.

From: Irishman
21-May-20
Jaquomo, where is it that you live that you were under house arrest? I didn't know anything like that was happening.

From: JayZ
21-May-20
Irishman, I think he used an incorrect word. We (us in Colorado) had a stay at home order. We could still go outside and recreate to a certain degree. Playgrounds were closed, but parks remained open (except for maybe some isolated cases). I think the order "required" residents to stay in their county.

From: x-man
21-May-20
Good on ya Shawn! Thanks for all that you do. My folks WILL NOT survive this if/when they get it. Personally I'd like to put that off as long as possible.

From: Jaquomo
21-May-20
It required us to stay within 10 miles of our homes, and we were only supposed to go out of our homes for "essential" items like whiskey and marijuana. I can't get to a grocery store within 10 miles. So I broke the law every chance I got.

From: Jeff Pals
21-May-20
Pat, I would not have a problem with a Premium Registration Level. The non-hunting ads would kind of stink but you have to do what you have to do. -Jeff

From: Irishman
21-May-20
Jaquomo, my father is 84 and lives in Northern Ireland. Anyone over 65 was supposed to stay at home there, he didn't care. He got pulled over by the police for being out driving to get groceries. I bet they were sorry that they pulled him over after he told them what he thought. He continues to go out. Of course we never did care much for the British police force and laws where I came from.

From: K Cummings
21-May-20
"My folks WILL NOT survive this if/when they get it. Personally I'd like to put that off as long as possible."

Totally understandable. However, wouldn't it make more sense restrict your parents instead of restricting everyone else?

When my mother in law was no longer able to drive safely, we had her license taken away to protect her and everyone around her. We didn't remove everyone else from the road in order to protect them from her.

KPC

From: TD
21-May-20
Take heart..... Whitmer, er, Hitler's got this......

From: Wirehair
21-May-20
Test

From: x-man
21-May-20
"Totally understandable. However, wouldn't it make more sense restrict your parents instead of restricting everyone else?"

They are restricted by me but, someone still has to get supplies to them. I'd rather keep it it out of our county all together. (We are still one of only five MN counties without a confirmed case) Just an hour ago, I had to set up a video conference for my mother with her cardiologist. She doesn't do smartphones or computers so, I'm the only option for that. If myself and my entire household were told to go back to a pre-Covid way of life, there would be nobody for my folks to safely rely on. Call me selfish if you want but, I'm not ready to kick the elderly to the curb just so you can go to the bar.

From: Ace
21-May-20
What about the owner of that Bar? Does he have any expectation of being able to earn a living?

Since when does quarantining the healthy make any sense? It's not about safety, it's about control.

21-May-20
Everyone is good with locking down ole folks unless you are one. I know quite a few seasoned citizens in their seventies and eighties that are really upset and hurt about being locked down and how we’ve handled this crisis in general. They have faced many risks in their lives and to them this is just another.

Who here wants to tell “Paul@the Fort” he can’t leave his house and go hunting? I’m talking about the millions of independent people, healthy, living on their own. People of any age (of majority) should be able to make their own decisions about their life until they cede it to someone else.

As you age you realize more and more that nobody beats the game of life so quality of last years is what matters. Being able to hug your kids and grand kids is way more important than living and extra 19 months in a lock down. Nothing is easy about all this Covid stuff except where it came from. C

PS: My wife and I have lost both our parents from 1986 to 2019 and each one went a different way but all four died with loved ones around and dignity. These nursing home folks (or anyone in hospitals) dying without being able to say good bye to family is cruel and will be looked back on as a major failing. I don’t know the solution but we must find one.

I googled American deaths each year and the current number is 2.8 million. We can not change that fact or our mortality. Risk made America.

From: K Cummings
21-May-20
"I'm not ready to kick the elderly to the curb just so you can go to the bar."

Who said anything about kicking them to the curb? I call it protecting them, but I guess it's a matter of perspective.

Ace is correct in my opinion. You have to find a balance between protecting the most vulnerable and stepping on the rights of the rest of society. Your desire to keep your parents safe, while noble, shouldn't trump someone else's right to make a living and feed their families or even enjoy their free time.

Everything we do involves a certain amount of risk. It's up to us as individuals to decide what risks we are willing to take.

" Everyone is good with locking down ole folks unless you are one. I know quite a few seasoned citizens in their seventies and eighties that are really mad and hurt about being locked down and how we’ve handled this crisis in general. They have faced many risks in their lives and to them this is just another."

I agree. For the most part, it should be a matter of personal choice. I understood that part about not overwhelming the HC system but we are long beyond that. For the vast majority of hospitals, it was never even an issue. Now we are in danger of seeing our HC system fail economically. What then?

KPC

KPC

From: HH
21-May-20
Lock up the general population for a tiny sub population in threat, then put diseased folks back in with them? Yeah that's a real smart guy there. Mass incarseration. A Combat Medic with 12 months OJT could of told the NY Gov " yer a freaking butt-nugget and yer gonna kill folks". You can tell Cuomo is very worried now that the mess he made there will end up on his report card. Saw him yesterday and he aint looking to good. He may want to get some Hydroxy Clor like POTUS.

DJT smart to bump up on that stuff. Take it like Doxy so YOU DONT GET IT. Think the dose is less for a daily prophaltic .Taking long term just like Doxy aint good but its better than carrying Malaria the rest of your life. I took azz loads of Doxy and Mephlaquin (1/week) working in SE, SW Asia, s and Central America and S. Pacific, pill a day. No Malaria.

Just is a bad deal folks can carry it and infect others with zero signs of it. Hope they make a breathalizer tester for it or a licky tab like a pool test kit that shows if you got it, had it or are clean. They you can talk about what to do with the three groups.

I can bet these big Insurance Companies are having Grande talks about Wuhan liability for all business, sporting games, concert halls, etc, etc. They aint gonna cover Wuhan liability anyway so open the damn place up. Lot of this lockdown by these places is drivin by liability issues. Good luck with worrying about that! Big Insurance not covering chit to do with the Wuhan so why would some concert promoter be worried his Libility Insurer wont cover his event? That liability issue needs to get fixed or we not getting back to any normal anytime soon! I can expect DJT will have to fix Big Insurance's little red wagons like everything else. They not going to do it themselves or loose any their own $.

K

I can see where Ohio's Gov was very worried and cautious. How many big cities does Ohio have, 7-8 ? Think he will pull back some now.

From: Bowbender
21-May-20
Kicking the elderly to the curb? Our PA Governor and man/lady Health Secretary did with the order for nursing homes to take in medically stable COVID patients. The best part? The man/lady Health Secretary removed his/her mother from a personal care facility prior to the order.

This has nothing to do with health and safety. It was a crisis that was used to see how compliant the American people are. Apparently they are pretty damn compliant.

Full disclosure. Both my wife and oldest daughter work in a hospital. They are on the front lines so to speak.

From: elkmtngear
21-May-20
"The man/lady Health Secretary removed his/her mother from a personal care facility prior to the order".

How low, can you go? :^/

From: x-man
21-May-20
I'm not meaning to direct my comments to any one of you personally... A little background to my remarks... Yesterday at the grocery store there was an idiot intentionally going against the direction of one-way travel without a mask on. The whole time he was very loudly stating that we all need to stop listening to the "fake news" and that we should just let all the elderly and medically vulnerable folks get sick and die. "it will solve all our problems" he said.

Since then, I have a hard time [not] lumping some of [you] in with that mentality. It took everything I had not to beat that man to a bloody pulp and put a "survival of the fittest" sign on his body.

From: azelkhntr
21-May-20
I don't see a State issuing any restrictions to out of state hunters. I'm in for elk in Colorado and if not drawn will still travel there for otc elk. Some states were attempting to limit or restrict travelers to or from but President Trump swiftly steeped in and warned that he wouldn't tolerate any interference with Interstate commerce. That seems to have worked out. I do foresee outfitters having a dismal year and many will probably have to quit and or offer deep discounts to folks just to keep their livestock fed. A hunt that usually costs $4-5k will probably be discounted 30-50% but idk. Still early but the summer trips aren't happening I'm sure. Your average Joe isn't going to be making that dream hunt his year simply due to the uncertainty and now half the workforce is furloughed. Moneys getting tight. The bummer is that fuel is so low and there's lots of time to go do things but all the NFS CG's are still closed. When's the last time you saw regular gas at a $1.89 at the Chevon? Damn shame.

From: Junior
21-May-20
Search travel restriction in the state you flying to and from. You may have to quarantine after your back home.

From: grizz
21-May-20
Well I gotta say it; I'm elderly and a parent and grandparent, if any of my children presume they can lock me down, I will whup their ass. That goes for my Governor also. Guess I'm not very compliant. And as far as the 10 miles from home, it's 45 miles for us to go to the grocery store. Just glad our state didn't completely nut out.

From: HDE
21-May-20
"I don't see a State issuing any restrictions to out of state hunters."

I wouldn't put anything past MLG from NM...

21-May-20
Good post Charlie. While I feel that this virus is worse than a lot of people would make it out to be, that post is some reason in a time of madness.

I think a lot of the knee-jerk reactions from government was a lot about preventing an outbreak instead of dealing with an outbreak, such as they had to back east. No one wants to get pinned with not being safe enough. In government, you rarely get nailed for erring on the side of safety. But if you make the tough decision and are right, you don't get nearly the credit you deserve compared with the crucifixion you get if you gamble and lose. In 2020, society has become so risk-averse that no one can ever do what needs to be done anymore and there's no such thing as breaking a few eggs to make an omelet anymore.

From: Jaquomo
21-May-20
Great post, Charlie. Early on some posts and even threads were being pulled for expressing what you just did.... Hope yours stays up.

From: K Cummings
21-May-20
”In government, you rarely get nailed for erring on the side of safety.“

Unless of course you are this administration. In that case you will get nailed for being too cautious, and you will get nailed for not being cautious enough.

Unfortunately, that’s a large part of the problem right now.

KPC

From: Dutch oven
21-May-20
It is gratifying to read knowledgeable posts by many here (IdylwildArcher, Will, etc.) and shocking to learn how little some know including "Medical Professionals".

From: BC
21-May-20
Another thing to consider, none of these politicians are going without a paycheck. What about the small business guy trying to feed his family...

From: Jaquomo
21-May-20
One way travel at a grocery store? Like zombies? Or sheep? WTH? Do they arrest people for going the other direction? Think I'd have been right there with that idiot...

From: itshot
21-May-20
shame that politics has such a big influence in this whole mess

From: Shawn
21-May-20
Last comment, go online and Google videos showing how Covid 19 spreads. There is one where one guy goes to a buffet and they treat just his hands with a substance that can only be seen under a black light. He goes thru the buffet and gets his plate of food, 9 more people follow, nothing applied to them. They all go through the line and sit down to eat. The black lights are bought in, you will not believe how and where that glow in the dark shows up. If it was the virus everyone would of been infected. So before you think you are safe when on lock down don't, I know of several people who never left there house or own yard and they contracted it. In 5 of those cases it was traced back to a delivery driver for Walmarts. Good news though I was negative again today, even though I tested positive for the anti bodies governor says we still must be tested twice a week!! Have Fun everyone!! Shawn

From: RK
21-May-20
Shawn

Is that the same Gov. that sent all those pour souls back to the nursing homes and was just on TV with his brother Fredo last night making fun of the testing process?

Yea , I'd listen to him. WTH

stay safe in spite of the idiots running your state

From: Ambush
21-May-20
Sooo, if a guy gets this possible new Premium Membership, could that guy post more than one pic at a time and maybe even be able to rotate it? Maybe even start threads under the exclusive B^ Icon?

From: Deertick
21-May-20
As a physician, I’m disappointed with how poor our communication has been. We (this has been documented well) overestimate our knowledge and worth ... which isn’t a problem most of the time ... but the nuance of uncertainty really magnifies the problem. It’s true with national security, too. Like I believe that terrorists need to be killed, I believe that COVID is a huge threat. But what we are seeing now, IMO, is more akin to the “security theater” of the TSA than the fighting spirit of the Marines.

I’m worried for my business, and my mother, and I speak to and listen to as many of the smartest people I know . But I can’t put all of my thoughts in a single narrative yet.

Life is way, way more complicated than we like to think.

22-May-20
Here is the bottom line... I am sure some doctors here will not want to hear this, but here it goes.... This is all bull shit.... I mean, we did not shut down the world for aids or all kinds of viruses..... We have become a nation of sheep...... I have survived my tour, of duty, I survived some stuff in my 32 years of law enforcement, I survived my hear surgery,which I caught myself,and at 71, am pretty not too concerned on this, another virus flu....

Oh I am sure I will hear all the crying, and bs from everyone,,,, the reality is, not all of us. live on top of each other...... that is a choice you made..... The economy being shut down on young people is BS

So for a reality check, whatever this is, its not going away, so deal with it.... at one time in my life, the enemy was not going away, so you had to deal with it......

I was a democrat all my life, until the last lets say 10 years or so,,, THEY ARE NUTS, and who wants to listen to some 80 year old woman, as the speaker of the house, are you kidding me,,,,''

What the young people of today will put up with is amazing,,,,, If I was like in my 40's, I would tell most of the old ass holes to get out of the way

22-May-20
"I am sure some doctors here will not want to hear this, but here it goes.... This is all bull shit...."

What do you mean by this? You have a better understanding of this than physicians? It seems like a rather haughty statement and screams Dunning-Kruger. I appreciate your service to your country and your community, but what medical understanding does that give you when the medical community is struggling to catch up in understanding?

And even more, you realize that it's the politicians that are making all the calls here, right? The medical system and physicians are not running things or making decisions.

22-May-20
Deertick,

Thanks for your humility! Life is complicated for sure. We will probably always disagree on what the best approach should have been, the old saying about hindsight...

I do agree we must find balance and begin to reopen while doing our best to protect the most vulnerable. That won't be easy and disagreements no doubt will continue to be the norm.

I am glad I am not one of those that had to decide the best approach. Taking the extreme measures we did might have been key to impress on citizens the importance of behaviors that reduce risk and spread. It is totally different when going out now, and I wonder if folks would have adjusted if they were not convinced this is an absolute threat? Those adjustments no doubt have helped reduce transmission rates.

Reading through all of these posts is informative. Reading bright guys trying to compare the mobility of a rioter in LA to the virus moving quietly and invisibly through the globe for example just doesn't explain why our reaction to the threat was too extreme for me. We have more knowledge today than just 90 days ago.

I remain concerned, the southern hemisphere approaching winter may give us an idea of what we can expect this Fall. Rates are spiking in Brazil and other South American countries. This ain't over, but I also agree with ground hunter that we have to face it.

As for my hunting, my annual bear hunt in MB was rescheduled, and the rest of my hunting is local. Robin and I have been fortunate, and our expenses dropped considerably during the shutdown. I have tried to spend more on things like ordering arrows, a bow case etc to try and help other businesses with our flexibility.

We are in a financial position to both retire fortunately. I asked Robin to do so to protect her, but we both realized we are not emotionally ready to give up our careers that bring us much satisfaction.

We have no doubt we will not only survive this as a nation, but come out the other end stronger and with new knowledge that will help us better deal with the next challenge.

Blessings to all of you that have had your lives turned upside down. We hope the current challenges can help better unite us as a nation.

From: K Cummings
22-May-20
""I am sure some doctors here will not want to hear this, but here it goes.... This is all bull shit...."

"What do you mean by this? You have a better understanding of this than physicians? It seems like a rather haughty statement and screams Dunning-Kruger. "

With all due respect Idyllwildarcher, I think the D-K reference is a little harsh. While most agree that the virus itself isn't "bulls**t," many medical experts, including respected epidemiologists, think that much of the response to the virus has been just that.

KPC

From: HH
22-May-20
Amen, Ground hunter.

You can bet Charlies post will stay up.

Here's another Fauci (the self proclaimed end all on epidemology) miss step. NOW, CDC a truly left leaning $ eating machine. They now say "yer not getting the Wuhan off surfaces". Why would they even bother to say this? Is it even true? I would not listen to this guy and POTUS has dumped him as drum beater changing his expert opinion as seasons or wind changes. Guy is a snake oil salesman hunting for the Holy Grail of Vaccine Patents .... The Wuhan Wonder Drug. But. . . . . why would he do that? It would be to simple to make a vaccine that would stop this Virus cold. Oh Yes, the hard part is to make a vaccine that only works for a year or better yet a seasonal vaccine so Pharma has to billions of doses biannually. Now that's the difficult part. Would give Fauci the keys to my Vets medicine locker much less the access to the free worlds labs on the GVT dime.

Not sure whose been turned upside down unless you live in a big city (a choice) or you have a Dem GOV or Mayor whose thinks their the Phoenix . Michigan, I really fell for you all but...... you folks handed the keys to the state to three mad women! That cant be corrected however! I have not changed much of anything this year. I do usually shoot Archery all over USA March- Aug. Still been shooting but competition with warm bodies has been slim! My fall hunts and tags are paid for. Scouting got dome this month. Plenty elk in the drainages I hunt, wolves been thinned real good by mother nature and a 6.5mm in those areas. Hoping for an early cold snap and bloody arra's.

K

From: K Cummings
22-May-20
Some people don't like the use of easy to understand analogies but let me try another.

Michigan has been under what many believe is a much too strict stay home-stay safe order for a long time. As many know, due to recent heavy rains, two dams in the central part of the state failed, requiring tens of thousand of people to evacuate their homes and for many, congregate in shelters where social distancing was the least of their worries.

Obviously, this needed to be done because those residents were in imminent danger. The governor, as well as the residents themselves had to weigh the comparative risk of trying to stay home and possibly dying -vs- evacuating to shelters where they are at a much greater risk of being exposed to the virus.

Even knowing that some of these evacuees are going to be infected with covid19, and some might die, most people think the risk was worth it.

Many people, including many of the experts see shutting down an entire economy in order to protect a relatively small subset of the population the same way. Many believe that we simply must take the risk of some people being infected (and knowing that the recovery rate is about 99% of all infected) due to the fact that people's livelihoods are in imminent danger of not surviving. This doesn't even take into consideration the medical repercussions of literally millions of people not being able to seek medical care for anything not related to covid19.

In my same state of Michigan, it has been reported that EMT's in the hardest hit part of the sate for covid19, are seeing a 400% increase in "dead at home" calls, for things like ruptured appendix, blood clots, heart attacks, strokes etc., because the people were either too scared, or didn't think they were allowed to seek timely medical attention at emergency rooms. How about the suicides, drug overdoses, and domestic violence cases directly related to the despair of imminent financial destruction from not being able to work?

Who is keeping a daily tally of these? Are their lives any more or any less important than grandma or grandpa?

No, it's not a perfect analogy but it does illustrate the need to weigh the comparative risks of one action vs another.

KPC

From: K Cummings
22-May-20
As with many things that end up turning political, the goal posts are constantly moving.

The shut down was never intended to prevent people from getting infected, it was intended to prevent people from all getting infected at the same time, and therefore overwhelming the HC system.

We have prevented that from happening. As a matter of fact, we have done it so well, many hospitals are now in real danger of insolvency. Go figure.

Now it is past time to get back to business, all the while taking reasonable precautions. If we wait for a cure or a vaccine to reopen, as some seem to want to do, our economy may never fully recover...at least not in the foreseeable future. That is a risk we simply cannot take.

Just like the heroes that stormed the beaches of Normandy, it was known that many would not survive, but it was necessary in order to preserve our way of life.

KPC

From: Deertick
22-May-20
That's not an "analogy". An analogy might be a comparison to the War on Terror.

Terrorism is real, a threat to civilization, and needs to be met with fierce and expensive force. Unfortunately, the severity of the threat leads to misplaced resources and "Security Theater", which isn't really all that helpful, but keeps people mindful of the risk.

Likewise, COVID is most certainly a threat, with -- for now -- unknown potential for harm from both life-threatening mechanisms and political destabilization. The initial threat was met with "everything we've got" ... and now we're having trouble adjusting ... shedding ineffective strategies and capitalizing on effective ones.

That's human nature. It's also human nature to see things like the GWoT as "black-or-white" ... we either "kill 'em all" or we're isolationist peackniks.

Likewise, with COVID, I'm tempted to "join" the hawks or the doves, but I know the answer lies with neither, because both are populated with people having motivations other than solving the original problem.

How will this effect me? Economically, for sure. Personally, perhaps. But the worst thing is what I see it is doing to my country: exposing our inability to think dynamically, and our predisposition to entrench ourselves rather than adjust to a moving target.

Has this has become nothing more than "bugle or cow call?" ... as if one OR the other are the answer ... when the real answer is FAR more nuanced.

From: HH
22-May-20
The elected Whack Jobs are running your state.

Let me make a comparison!

In Mich by Order of Queen.

“ You can not flee your city to your UP cabin but I will stuff you a School Gym with 300 strangers”

You need to the DJT Admin come in and fix that nuthouse.

K

22-May-20
Deertick,

Great follow-up post IMHO sir! Your wording is perfect. We need to be flexible and adjust, balancing the sanctity of all lives, or I should say doing our best to try.

It is easy to criticize what we did with hindsight. I remember early on most experts were claiming this was the "real deal", even articles on the end of human presence. As we learned more we realized the accuracy of doomsday narratives were entirely suspect. Maybe the press did not allow the voices speaking against the current to be heard? What I do agree with you on entirely is that situations like this are not black and white, life is too often more complicated than that.

Thanks again.

From: HDE
22-May-20
Some people say it is being selfish to want to go back to work, reopen a business, or do whatever activity (hunting for example) that brings a sense of real normalcy back.

I would submit that it is just as selfish to expect everyone to stop everything to cater to their fears, to "do your part and save lives" for an illness that so far has proven to be an issue for some but not for most. It is also just as selfish, maybe more so, to expect people to give everything up and compromise their kids' futures for whatever plans they may have had for one event in the long history of human events.

A lot of us on here have lost a parent, or both. The one truth is though, the day after their death and the day after their funeral, the sun rose just the same and life went on. In fact, life did not stop for everyone else. Those few days for some of us may have been put on pause, but everyone else's didn't. During this event, people are experiencing for the first time what some of us have already experienced, an untimely death of someone close, in the context of my post, a parent. The sun will come up the next day. Life will go on and it has not stopped for everyone else. The bad trade off is that millions of peoples' lives have been compromised because of an event for untimely deaths of other people.

The virus is real. The fallout from mass mismanagement and polarized politics is inexcusable. Some states got it right, others didn't. In fact, you can pretty much see the poor leadership and plans executed by blue state governors that show to have led from behind.

This election year is crucial, just as the past few have been. Good luck to anyone with hunt's lined up. As you're out in the hills, don't forget to make time to vote this fall - the ability to continue to hunt may very well depend on it.

From: 12yards
22-May-20
One thing is for certain. If we'd had a Democratic president at this time, he/she would be handling it to perfection.

From: K Cummings
22-May-20
"Likewise, COVID is most certainly a threat, with -- for now -- unknown potential for harm from both life-threatening mechanisms and political destabilization. The initial threat was met with "everything we've got" ... and now we're having trouble adjusting ... shedding ineffective strategies and capitalizing on effective ones."

I totally agree to the extent that while the threat was unknown, we had to do what we had to do to get a handle on it. Most people were in full support of the initial stay at home orders (including me). We had to do what we had to do because we didn't know what we didn't know.

It has become quite obvious (outside the political pandering) that the actual infections were not only a lot more numerous but, a lot less lethal than originally thought and feared.

Because of this, I believe it is long past time to get back to what Americans do best...with reasonable precautions.

KPC

From: TD
22-May-20
You.... you over there.... you close your business.... lose your home and destroy your family and it's future.... because if it saves just one life, not planting tomatoes and staying off the dry sand this year it's worth the sacrifice, you haircut mongers.....

But you..... you get your butt out there and make sure my Amazon stuff gets delivered, my cell service and internet are good, I have food and make sure that store never runs out of toilet paper again...... as long as we all walk in the same direction.... you are not essential, but MY needs are.... you're ok, we can blindly ignore some risks.

This flippin world isn't just nuts..... it's EMBRACING crazy..... and seemingly those who are the most tightly wrapped among us are running it.... The sunshine kills this stuff in seconds..... but make sure YOU stay locked up inside, say those with a sudden taste of control and power....

Yeah, science and logic..... WRT doctors, a great many HAVE come out and said what they are seeing is the "cure" is more damaging than the disease. They get censored by the powers that be for not following the official control freak dogma.

What is really scary IMO is not even the virus. It's already gone far beyond that. Green New Deal legislation included in covid relief bills? 80 million in relief to.... Planned Parenthood? Airline emissions standards? And it's coming clear for many they have a vested interest in making sure the country is in the worst possible shape come November. It's not the country or it's people they care about. It's control and power.

Just wait until you see the NEW agencies (agencies that will be larger than TSA many times over and I'm sure will work for free...) that they are trying to start up along with MANDATORY personal tracking apps and other "public safety measures". Because the goal posts haven't just moved a dozen times, they don't even pretend they are on the field anymore. Because now we are told we can't open up until we can trace every citizen 24/7 where they go, what they are doing and with who. A literal police state by any measure one wants to use. Because there are no rights or freedoms that can't be trampled on if cloaked in "public safety".

I ain't walking in any flippin one way shopping lane, much less this BS. I used to think this "civil war" talk was just rhetoric. Now I'm not so sure. People are fed up with this crap. There are already little mini civil wars across the country. They push this much harder and the backlash, lets call it "civil disobedience", is going to shock them. Lets get back to that four letter word "work" already....

From: Jaquomo
22-May-20
TD, I love you a little more after that post!

From: K Cummings
22-May-20
Very good post TD.

Just this morning my wife and I noticed yet another example of the "crazy" than you speak of. We try to walk a couple miles every day and today we chose to take our walk along the sidewalk next to the lake in our home town.

There is a playground/jungle gym along that path as well as picnic facilities with tables, grills, etc., (which are open for use with signs that say to use at your own risk). Also along the path are two beautiful, spacious bathroom facilities. The bathrooms are closed for "safety," but next to each bathroom are two 4' x 4' porta-potties that are open for use.

Apparently some genius determined that the large bathrooms with sinks, soap, hand sanitizer and air hand driers were unsafe, but two disgusting outhouses were safe?

You literally can't make this stuff up.

KPC

From: HH
22-May-20
TD I been telling that theme Since BO , the Oahu kid claimed he was born in Queen's or Kaiser. Chit, i knew the head retired birthing nurse there for 40yrs. No black child born to the Bank of Hawaii VPs daughter ever was born there in the 60’s. She said “ would have been scandal of decade”.

Wait til the Berniista’s and the Free Free Free AOC bunch get stuffed at virtual convention!

Glad yer finally seeing the world as it is too TD.

KPC Know you on other hand you may need to topple that Michigan Monarchy. Cuz its Fakin Koo Koo up in that AO!

Yer Gov trying hard for a mud match with Abraham's for Slow Joe's VP. They don't know Joe is going take that Mayor of Atlanta if she be of scandal free blood.

Dont matter either way Nov 3rd half this nation be ready to fight. Hope the national loser party has there chit in one sack!

K~

From: grizz
22-May-20
TD, great post!!

HH, ......huh?

From: midwest
22-May-20
That was beautiful TD

22-May-20
"Some people say it is being selfish to want to go back to work, reopen a business, or do whatever activity (hunting for example) that brings a sense of real normalcy back. I would submit that it is just as selfish to expect everyone to stop everything to cater to their fears, to "do your part and save lives" for an illness that so far has proven to be an issue for some but not for most. It is also just as selfish, maybe more so, to expect people to give everything up and compromise their kids' futures for whatever plans they may have had for one event in the long history of human events."

Good take HDE.

From: azelkhntr
22-May-20
Nice TD. This whole fiasco has become a huge Chinese CF fire drill. No one has more blood on his hands then Cuomo either. Forcing nursing homes to take China bug patients was insane. Nursing homes aren't equipped to act as isolation wards for infectious diseases. How Cuomo is still exchanging air is a mystery to me. if my dear ole mom had died because of that he wouldn't be and that can be taken to the bank. Same goes for that fat, gross, disgusting health official in ME. The most shocking thing though is how quickly the masses took to the yoke of government tyranny willingly. Those same people will line up gladly to receive the mark. People are attacking me for not wearing a mask and practicing this social distancing crap. If you're at risk then you stay home not me. I'm not playing the I'm responsible for your safety, health and wellbeing game. Half the people don't even get flu shots annually as is now and this china bug is just another flu no matter what anyone says. My FIL is 81 and never gets the flu shot. Claims he got it once and then got the flu which is bs. Sometimes you get malaise from it but that passes in a day or so. Anyway were talking and he decided to hunker down with MIL till the whole thing passes or a vaccine is found. I reminded him that the vaccine wouldn't doo him any good because he rejects the flu shots. The look on his face was priceless. Uh Uh Uh you cant put that on me! Right. So much for convictions. Bwaaahahahaha!

From: HH
22-May-20
Both Cuomo's are toast along with AOC. That one ( aoc ) never even went to her District since March 18th!!! Been in hiding in DC. She's out come fall. Some reject will give her a broom closet job in Congress dont you worry.

K~

From: Owl
22-May-20
This ain't rocket science. In periods of profound economic contraction, activity - particularly discretionary - will become more localized, scrutinized and , well, limited. Folks with more resources will be able to leverage them more effectively and that is good. I just hope that ability is more widespread than I fear.

Unfortunately, IMO, the ball of twine is just beginning to unravel. Psychologists and philosophers have long held that in absence of legitimate challenge, humans will manufacture chaos. The perversity and damage potential of stated chaos has the capacity to be wholly unbound. This is the experiment we find ourselves involved.

Me, I'm looking forward to the VA Spring squirrel season. I'm still building points in AZ and I'm reconceptualizing the manner in which I venture out of state. For instance, I've come to love hunting Alaska but I can see a scenario where my next "bear hunt" will be a bush flight and a fishing trip...No worries, though, there's nothing we can't endure with a smile on our faces.

From: K Cummings
23-May-20
"One thing is for certain. If we'd had a Democratic president at this time, he/she would be handling it to perfection."

Even if he/she was doing exactly the exact same things the current administration is doing.

:)

KPC

From: K Cummings
23-May-20
In other news, Michigan's governor (D) has extended the stay home order for the 5th time, until mid June, for the southern (most populated) part of the state.

Businesses in the northernmost part of the state (where much of the summer recreation takes place) have been allowed to open to a large extent, while businesses in the southern part of the state (where 90% of the infections are) remains closed.

Gosh, can anyone see any "unintended consequences" on the horizon as a result of this brilliant move?

KPC

From: HH
23-May-20
Now the O'Biden parties burning love affair with Fauci is about over. This Knut now says that Shutting it Down maybe worse than the Wuhan. Please somebody stop winding this fool up or stop pulling his string. I feel for youzfolks in Mi. Use to be where America made almost all our Vehicles. Not so much anymore. What was the deal with the MI Atty General having a Covid moment about POTUS touring Ford Ventilator production line? We thought the Wuhan only affect the pulminary respitory system? For sure your State's GVT is run by three Bat Chit nuts females and there's no getting around that. That's self inflicted however! They connect that Whit-terd Gov and the O'Bidens together and that should finish those crazy folks for a good long while. She making Winners and Losers out of her subjects.

Winners: Big Box Companies (owned by outa staters)

Losers: Mich State's small businesses (owned and run by residents)

Yeah, KPC the unintended consequences of putting her in Gov Mansion is glaring.

K~

From: x-man
23-May-20
So now that this thread has absolutely nothing to do with Pat's feature discussion... I'll try to get it back on topic and answer the question.

I didn't have any plans to go out of state this year for hunting anyway so, my hunting season won't be affected. My longest drive to a hunting spot is 12 miles. I'm lucky in that regard.

Now back to the new community forum...

From: Trophyhill
23-May-20
There's no way that with Covid affecting our every day lives, that it isn't having an effect on hunting. The way it's dominating the news, whether from the left or the right, impossible to say what kind of long term effects it is going to have. And it won't necessarily be from the China Flu, but moreso the effects will be caused from the knee jerk paranoid decisions made by elected officials who are bankrupting this country state by state. It's just sickening watching this happen as millions are out of work, and businesses are going bankrupt right and left. Not to mention people aren't getting the healthcare they need.

From: Kevin Dill
23-May-20
The economic damage caused by the pandemic is going to definitely and drastically cut into discretionary spending for pleasure-related activities. With unemployment raging and businesses closing down permanently, there will be people who simply cannot spend what they don’t have. I believe this will affect all levels of hunting and related gear purchases.....most likely counted in years and not just months.

One other thing it will likely do is increase competition for the thinner dollars available. We may notice the prices for almost everything hunting related stay stagnant or perhaps even drop. It’s not confined to hunting of course. I just bought a new 2020 pickup and (between dealer markdowns and manufacturer incentives) I bumped $11k off the sticker. I wouldn’t be shocked to see the future prices of some expensive hunts get cut, or at least stop rising yearly. It could be a buyer’s market for those with the means.

From: HH
23-May-20
Here no one even sniffing at new 4x4's unless its a clean drop of about 20k and 0% financing. Never get on off the the lot. Then throw a trade in on backend. The advertised write is 15K for everyone walking on lot.

Land of the Free Home of the Brave Pricing

K

From: Jaquomo
23-May-20
Dennis Prager just predicted that this is a dress rehearsal for the next "crisis", Global Warming. Think travel restrictions, nonconforming businesses shut down, gas rationing, restrictions on hours per day you can heat and cool your house, cell phone tracking to punish offenders....

Think that won't affect hunting?

From: grizz
24-May-20
They will fail.

From: Bowbender
24-May-20
"They can try." "They will fail."

LMAO......Look at the assault we allowed on our liberties because of COVID and the needless fear surrounding it. We showed our government just how compliant we are.

From: Jaquomo
24-May-20
Yep, Bowbender is right. Next time they will put teeth into the restrictions and arrest people. They know they can do it after this experiment. Because, you know, Global Warming is the greatest existential threat humanity has ever faced...

From: K Cummings
24-May-20
"LMAO......Look at the assault we allowed on our liberties because of COVID and the needless fear surrounding it. We showed our government just how compliant we are."

Not sure global warming would have the same affect BB. A lot of people actually thought they might die of Covid 19. Nobody in their right mind is afraid of dying from global warming.

:)

KPC

From: Bowbender
24-May-20
Nobody in their right mind is afraid of dying from COV.......... never mind.

From: Owl
24-May-20
Until otherwise demonstrated, I believe we will comply with anything so long as we are nominally comfortable and entertained.

From: Ambush
24-May-20
If Industrialized mankind (or chose your own gender-kind) is the cause of climate change, why didn’t the Pilgrims have mastodon instead of turkey.

I think many levels of government are keeping the Covid hyped up to cover up and distract from their own levels of incompetence and mishandling from start to finish.

From: azelkhntr
24-May-20
Well technically all birds are direct descendants of dinos so...….. "I think many levels of government are keeping the Covid hyped up to cover up and distract from their own levels of incompetence and mishandling from start to finish." Got that right. The politicians pretty much bought into the now failed models, projections and recommendations of people who are no exposed as flat out wrong. This is the first time in history that the well have been forced into isolation by the at risk or exposed population. This china bug is just another flu; a coronavirus. You have a 0.028% chance of dying from it vs the entire US population. And its treatable. Cuomo the clowns hands are literally dripping in blood because of his order that all NY nursing homes had to receive C-19 patients. Nursing homes and assisted living facilities are not "isolation facilities" equipped to deal with infectious disease. He should be shot for that lunacy IMO.

From: MarkU
24-May-20
May impact my annual fishing trip to Alaska, but have all my lower 48 hunts covered.

Could very well see Darwinism in an excellerated form with the anti crowd.

From: 4nolz@work
24-May-20
Typical NY arrogance assuming the whole Country should follow their example.A few weeks ago they called Florida Georgia and SC "idiots".....yeah right.New Yorkers wouldnt gaf if it was in any State but theirs.Typical.Destroy the Country save NY.

From: 4nolz@work
24-May-20

4nolz@work's embedded Photo
4nolz@work's embedded Photo

26-May-20
Keeping the numbers real since there's further disinformation.

There's been 30,000 deaths in NY state.

The population of NY State is 19.45 million people.

30,000 is 0.15% of 19.45 million.

The population of the USA is 330,000,000.

If the entire country was caught up to New York State... 0.15% of 330,000,000 is 500,000 Americans dead.

And...New York is not done with COVID. The latest antibody test study in New York extrapolated to 20% of NYC and 7% of the entire state, infected thus far.

Again, this is NOT another flu.

Again, we cannot stay in our homes for 18 months and have to face this one way or another.

But those of us who believe we shouldn't just keep kicking this can down the road and destroy life as we know it lose relevance and legitimacy when we ignore the numbers and call this "another flu," because it is not another flu. 100K dead officially on Tuesday and a small minority of America has been exposed.

This has the potential to kill well into 7 digits and we need to be able to not only agree on that, but agree that we've got to move on to a world beyond that number.

Unless we get an effective treatment or vaccine very soon, it's going to keep spreading because America is done with this BS lockdown.

At least let the young people who don't have a high death rate from it get it and have at least part of the American people/economy move on.

From: archeryav
26-May-20
As I'm living in France and I'm hunting a lot in the states, this coming season is going to be pretty hard. Right now in France we are not allowed to travel overseas and it's the same for the USA.

I drew a Montana deer and I've an antelope tag coming too. My 2020 hunt is already 100% paid with my outfitter for september. I already changed the schedule for my camp to the end of september but I'll take a final decision mid july and I'll see if we'll have the right to travel again.

The Montana DNR told me that they are not going to make any special cancel procedure if I want to get a 100% refund. The only way is to cancel before the end of July.

I've another hunt schedule in November. I really hope the world will be better by this autumn.

From: Kevin Dill
26-May-20
I could not agree more with Ike's post.

We do not need to choose between death by Covid-19 or by shutdown and economic ruin. We can avoid most of both, but not by advocating extremist views and policies going either direction. Some compromise is in order, but the nation is so consumed by partisan politics....compromise is interpreted by many as weakness or failure.

Churchill said something like "Never waste a good crisis." We can dependably expect our politicians to use the pandemic to their benefit, or to their adversary's disadvantage. It rather disgusts me to see so much energy expended into partisan warfare when it could really be used to combine ideologies and achieve progress toward a confident and healthy nation.

"At least let the young people who don't have a high death rate from it get it and have at least part of the American people/economy move on."

Bars, beaches, pools and parties are now the great petri dish which will show us the way forward. Or maybe not.

From: midwest
26-May-20
Some other stats to keep in mind. From what I've read, if you're 25 or under, you're far more likely to die from the flu vs. covid.

Nearly half of all the US deaths are in nursing homes and assisted living.

World wide deaths are currently around 350K.

Ike, you say NY has 30K deaths, I see less than 24K currently.

From: Grey Ghost
26-May-20
From Pat's article:

"As far as limited entery tags, most of the draws took place already and my guess is the applications are down."

Pat, your guess is wrong in Colorado, and I suspect elsewhere. Hunting applications and fishing licenses have both surged in 2020, here. IIRC, there were over 15K more big game applications than in 2019.

The pandemic disrupted our annual month-long May vacation in Florida. I skipped down there solo, anyway, for a week of tarpon fishing, but it wasn't the same without the family and friends who usually join us. I also have a Canadian fishing trip scheduled in late June that is currently up in the air. Who knows how this will affect hunting season, my crystal ball doesn't look that far ahead.

Financially, we haven't been impacted too badly. Our retirements accounts have climbed back to just a few percentage points from their previous highs. I also capitalized on some ridiculously under-valued stock after the markets crashed, which has done amazingly well during the market recovery.

In the end, I think antibody testing will show that this virus was around long before it became a media and political fiasco in the US. My buddy, who manages a large Inn on Sanibel Island, told me he thinks his entire staff had C19 in February. He said, employees who hadn't missed a day of work in 5 years, suddenly became sick and stayed home for 7-10 days from it. Infection rates will prove to be much higher than the current numbers show, and mortality rates will be much lower, IMO.

Matt

From: Will
26-May-20

Will's Link
Ike nailed a good one there. Fully agree. We have to move forward, with reasonable safety precautions and understanding it's not a light switch but a dimmer with some areas potentially being more open than others, and if an outbreak happens, that area may have a bit of a shut down for a while again to protect the whole. But we have to move forward.

It's definitely not the flu. Some infections tend to hit different ages harder than others. Some hit the very young super hard, some the middle, some the old. This one seems to be most extreme on the old, or those with to much weight and likely associated illness's like high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease etc. Not exclusively, but on the averages.

Taking basic precautions to help keep those folks well - wear a mask (it's not political, it's not bogus, new information is learned fast when a disease has only been known for like 4-5 months now) as it may protect others from you. Important since a number of folks are asymptomatic with this and those who will become symptomatic can still be spreading the virus for several days prior to onset of symptoms. So you feeling fine, doesnt mean you couldnt infect the diabetic 45 year old next to you at the grocery store, or the old lady at the store or church etc. It's a zero burger on you, just put it on around other folks and you MAY help reduce odds of YOU spreading it to others which...

HELPS KEEP THE ECONOMY REOPENING AT THE STEADIEST RATE!!!!!!

So yeah, do distancing and mask up and wash your hands. It's going to be a while still. And the poop can hit the fan NYC or ITA style in a given area and if you live there, your area gets shut down again, or we all deal with mild inconvenience (mask, wash hands, try to keep some space when around others - is that seriously even an inconvenience? How is that even political at this point?)

Most important though, for anyone reading this. Be good to each other and yourself. We are only a few months from some you guys hunting Mulies and antelope, even Elk and earlier whitetail seasons. Gotta all stay well to be with our families and enjoying those seasons!

Someone asked numbers from Ike's post, I suspect he was using the US map here on the CDC site which lists NYC deaths at 29K roughly. I've seen some other numbers in the 24k range. My suspicion is the timing in terms of how numbers are collected, and the 24 just has not been fully updated yet. Given Johns Hopkins totals up to the 29k ish number as well.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html

26-May-20

Habitat for Wildlife's Link

From: Brotsky
26-May-20
Very well said Ike. The sooner we come to terms with the fact that a large percentage of us are going to get this and a VERYU small percentage of those will die the sooner we can move on. The problem is people are focused on the number and NOT the percent. 100k deaths....a drop in the bucket of our total overall population. What is the NET death number? How many haven't died from cart crashes? Or this or that or the other thing? People die everyday, its an unfortunate side effect of life. Over a million and likely 2 million may die from COVID. It is an unfortunate reality.

From: Norseman
26-May-20
When is the update on the Community Forum, Pat?

Unless I missed it we never got it, as the posted message on the CF thread/forum link states. Not being snarky, just want to know. Thanks

From: Mint
26-May-20
Yes, update on the community forum would be great. It definitely had some negative aspects but the positive aspects more than out weighed them. I found the forum very useful.

26-May-20

IdyllwildArcher's Link
"Ike, you say NY has 30K deaths, I see less than 24K currently."

From: TD
26-May-20
Well.... we HAD a CF..... until KAREN showed up and wanted to speak with the manager..... =D

From: K Cummings
26-May-20
Idyllwildarcher:

What percentage of the deaths being attributed to covid19 are actually covid19 deaths, and not just "suspected," or people who actually died from other causes but also tested positive?

It would be very interesting to know what the numbers would be if we only counted the deaths that were confirmed to be covid 19 as the primary cause of death.

KPC

From: Fuzzy
26-May-20
so far so good

From: x-man
26-May-20
My uncle passed Saturday evening in the nursing home. He had Alzheimer's pretty bad. He tested possitive for Covid-19 on Thursday last week. When my cousin called Sunday with the news he said they ruled cause of death as Alzheimer's, not Covid-19.

I can't believe his is the only such case. Who knows what actually caused his death. I suspect there are many deaths caused by Covid-19 that are ruled as something else. Just as the other way around.

26-May-20
x-man,

Sorry for your loss.

I have read it both ways, reports of counting everything as COVID and other reports of many passing away at home and the cause listed as diabetes, heart disease etc.

One reading which made sense to me is that the average number of deaths per year nationwide outside of war casualties is very stable. So an accurate number will be to look at how much the annual death rate this year and next differ from those stable averages, the difference being attributable to COVID.

From: Grey Ghost
26-May-20
I read that Russia has reported a much lower Covid mortality rate than virtually any other country. Interestingly, if you look into it further, they've also reported an INCREASE in every other cause of death. Coincidence? I think not.

The bottom line is, no one definitively knows the true extent of infections, or mortality rates. It's all just guesses based on incomplete data and vague assumptions, right now. When Trump was touting only a handful of confirmed cases in the US, I think the virus had already been here for months. I'm betting several bowsiters have already had it and recovered from it without even knowing it was Covid. Without 100% testing for both the virus and the anti-bodies from having and recovering from the virus, we will never know the true numbers.

Matt

From: Mint
26-May-20
Xman, sorry for your loss. I would wager your Uncle would have been labeled as covid-19 death but now that Cuomo is feeling the heat on nursing home deaths i'm sure they are trying to lower the count.

My Uncle died of the flu years ago but on the death certificate they put down kidney failure since the flu pushed him over the brink.

26-May-20
If you look at countries around the world, they're reporting a huge spike in all-cause death associated with their COVID outbreaks. When you usually have about the same amount of deaths in a given month, year after year, and then that number doubles or triples suddenly...

Oh, and Russia, China, Iran, and N. Korea are all lying about their COVID fatalities. And many 2nd and 3rd world nations just don't have the infrastructure to accurately count, much less test.

From: yooper89
26-May-20
I really hope Bowsite doesn't go to a paywall.

26-May-20

IdyllwildArcher's Link
I hunt almost exclusively in right-leaning counties, so I figure I'll be good this fall since the virus is mostly hitting Democrats.

From: Mule Power
27-May-20

Mule Power's embedded Photo
Mule Power's embedded Photo
I’ve always had faith that Wyoming is on our side. This morning’s email....

From: K Cummings
27-May-20
Anecdotal for sure, but Michigan is showing the highest number of turkey tags sold in a number of years.

"The most recent license data from the DNR shows that spring turkey hunting license sales are the highest they have been since 2015, indicating a strong desire by customers to pursue these outdoor activities this year."

https://www.michigan.gov/som/0,4669,7-192-47796-528587--,00.html

Obviously, the fact that many people are off work and have more time to hunt probably has a lot do do with this increase, hopefully the covid19 situation might actually help to renew and increase the interest in outdoor activities like hunting and fishing, which take place mostly in solitude.

As with many things like this, the negative results tend to get most of the press while the positive consequences might go relatively unnoticed.

KPC

From: Grey Ghost
27-May-20
"I’ve always had faith that Wyoming is on our side."

Yet, Wyoming is still not allowing any non-residents to camp in their State Parks. I think Wyoming is on Wyoming's side.

Matt

From: MtnHunter
27-May-20
Grey Ghost... There ain't nothing wrong with that. I wish my state of Colorado would be more on the side of Colorado and its residents.

From: Grey Ghost
27-May-20
Agreed MtnHunter. Colorado has always catered to non-residents.

I just found it ironic that a guy from Pennsylvania would be touting Wyoming as being on "our side", when Wyoming clearly doesn't want any non-residents right now.

Matt

From: grizz
27-May-20
Our states and our country "should " put their own people first. I see Wyoming's stance as on the hunters side, theirs first as it should be.

From: midwest
27-May-20

midwest's Link
Iowa had a record turkey harvest this year due, no doubt, to the Coronavirus.

From: Mule Power
27-May-20
Grey Ghost... because I understand why. Also right now I don’t care and I believe that they will allow us to big game hunt.

From: Mule Power
27-May-20

Mule Power's embedded Photo
Mule Power's embedded Photo
Another email from Wyoming. First sentence... “Fall big game hunts are on.”

I can camp in my home state until then no problem.

From: Two Feathers
28-May-20
Pat I enjoyed your article. I have not really been impacted by the CV other than my wife working from home and the grandkids home from school. I personally know no one who has died from it or been infected with CV. I am self employed. No one told me if I was essential or non essential so I continued to work as normal. My work load was and is normal and I drive to my different appointments.

I have no out of state hunts planned and I don't have a need for any new equipment unless I go with Ozonics this year. I did stick money into a drone but isn't the scouting tool I thought it would be. I'm headed to my deer hunting shack in the morning for four days, return Monday and then back to work until the next trip north. I haven't worn a face mask but I haven't shaken hands with but a few. No hugs, no kisses.

From: SteveB
06-Jul-20
As of today, July 6, 2020, we are being led to believe that things are going downhill quickly......so we may see more closures than we anticipated. That said, I am not upset to see the increase in numbers as we need to "bite the bullet" and get this thing over with. Ultimately hiding from it wont help a thing. And I am a 65 year old (well controlled) diabetic with sarcoidosis (autoimmune) which affects my lungs. Scary....but lets's roll.

From: jingalls
06-Jul-20
I’m with Steve. I’m 57 and take two different asthma meds. Basically COPD but Ive never smoked. Just lots of pneumonia over the course of my life. I control it fine with meds. We have to be careful but you can’t just hide.

It’s really messing with a hunt I’ve been planning to Alaska for two years. Archery Bou hunt in the 40 Mile herd. I’m going to look for some trip insurance this AM. If any of you have trip insurance experience PM me please! Good luck to all!!!

From: Kerrbow
06-Jul-20
72 years old here and headed for my first Alaska hunt August 31st. Have hypertension issues but take BP meds and wondering what the next 55 days bring prior to takeoff. Excitement has been definitely tempered somewhat from when I booked in January but trusting the good Lord to give me wisdom to do what's best.

From: HDE
07-Jul-20
Far more concerned with what Nov will bring than this virus...

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