What state has best drawing system
Contributors to this thread:General Topic
From: Tim Hoeck
01-Jul-20
What state has the best drawing system and why ? Both non resident and non res
From: Camcudde
01-Jul-20
Get ready for a lot of different answers...
From: Shawn
01-Jul-20
Depends what ya want to hunt. Whitetail, Iowa as it takes a few years or more and they do not allow a ton of NR hunters. Shawn
From: IdyllwildArcher
01-Jul-20
I assume you meant 'both resident and non res'
From: IdyllwildArcher
01-Jul-20
I would say Nevada does things best. They don't give out a ton of landowner vouchers, they use BPs instead of PPs, which gives everyone a shot, and they do a good job of limiting tags and not shooting the Hell out of their herds.
From: splitlimb13
01-Jul-20
New Mexico...hands down shut this discussion down hahaha! In all seriousness it's New Mexico.
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From: PushCoArcher
01-Jul-20
There's a good argument for 100% random draws like New Mexico. But there NR tag allocation and the outfitter pool especially knocks them off my list. Personally I like Wyoming best a bit confusing to learn all the ends and outs. Between the regular, special, random, and reduced price draw there's a lot of variety and opportunity. I also feel that Wyoming game and fish does a amazing job managing its wildlife
From: Drnaln
01-Jul-20
Nevada...Everyone, including 1st timers, have a chance to draw a tag & guys that have applied the longest have better odds with the squared bonus points!
From: splitlimb13
01-Jul-20
The draw SYSTEM itself is best. People have the same opportunity every year to draw top notch hunts. Tag allocation on the other hand is a separate issue. Things do need to change there.
From: IdyllwildArcher
01-Jul-20
Personally, I like the country's systems how they are for the most part as it's nice to have some lottery states. Trouble is, if every state were pure lottery, it'd be a constant case of feast or famine (instead of just famine:) ).
It's nice to be able to plan a few hunts. I just wish these G&F depts would get their results out quicker and earlier in the year.
From: SBH
01-Jul-20
What do you consider more important....Opportunity or quality?
From: sticksender
01-Jul-20
Colorado at one time would have gotten my vote as best for NR. That's past history now unfortunately, but I was able to take all 9 of their big game species with archery in a relatively short amount of time. There's hardly any other state where a NR could have done that, for little more than the price of the license. Sadly their system has been changed drastically and you can no longer reasonably expect to get any of their big-3 licenses anymore as a NR, especially if just starting out.Idaho's system has remained basically unchanged, and I'd have to give it the nod right now as the best for NR and Res alike. Considering opportunity at multiple species and best lifetime draw odds. As a resident, if you start early in life, you've got a great chance to draw two ram tags, bull & cow Moose tags, a mountain goat tag, and you could also hunt elk, deer, pronghorn, bear, and lion virtually every year if you wanted.If you want to consider outside the lower-48, then of course Alaska & BC are both great, for residents.
From: IdyllwildArcher
02-Jul-20
Alaska has the size and population to put it in a completely different ball park. As a DIY hunter, I look at all outfitter welfare as total BS, but they'd have to completely change the system if they allowed NRs to hunt sheep/goats without a guide. Anyways, in my book, any state that has outfitter welfare is not the best for NRs. But it's a great place to live.
From: PushCoArcher
02-Jul-20
Why would New Mexico be better then Idaho? Both random except Idaho has OTC tags and no outfitter pool.
From: Treeline
02-Jul-20
They all have their idiosyncrasies and are all geared towards generating revenue for the state agencies whether you get a tag or not. Some states focus on hunter opportunity while others focus on quality of the hunt and older age class animals (higher potential for trophies).
Decent deer and elk hunting is possible in every western state every year but the good to excellent tags for any species are becoming rarer every year. Sheep, goat and moose tags are very long odds of ever drawing in any state.
The internet combined with hunt planning services like Huntin’ Fool, GoHunt, Epic, etc, etc have made it much easier for someone to figure out all the different opportunities and which areas are producing high quality animals out there and apply for those hunts. Even as hunter numbers are declining, the demand for these western state drawings continues to increase.
Not that long ago, it was very difficult to get the information about good hunting areas, how to apply, and you had to correctly fill out and send in paper applications. Now it is so easy to apply for all the western states with the click of a few buttons and the charges are almost invisible on a credit card.
The “Best” drawing system is up for debate.
Does best mean that you can plan when you are going to hunt or does it mean you will at least have a chance of getting a tag?
Does it mean that it is easily understood and easy to apply?
How about the odds of getting to hunt multiple species?
Resident versus Non Resident restrictions?
Bottom line is all of the drawing systems are different and you have to pay if you ever want to play....
From: fubar racin
02-Jul-20
Sticksender it’s actually easier to get a sheep or moose tag as a non res than as a res In Colorado as long as you hunt cows and ewes. A buddy of mine has shot multiple cow moose as a non res in the 9 years Iv been applying.
From: splitlimb13
02-Jul-20
"Why would New Mexico be better then Idaho? Both random except Idaho has OTC tags and no outfitter pool." Although both draw systems are random , Idaho runs their draw system differently. In NM when your application number is pulled for the species , the computer then starts on your first choice, checks availability, if none moves to second choice, if none moves to third , and so on. Idaho cycles the draw pool goes through all the applicants first choice , re scrambles the apps then draws for second choice and so on. They basically do a draw for every choice. There are also OTC hunts in NM
From: Treeline
02-Jul-20
I’ve been applying for moose in CO since before there were points. Haven’t missed an application period since 1991. Colorado’s system ends up issuing tags at point levels with the greatest numbers of applicants so individual applicants don’t get a lot of advantage over the herds. The odds are much better that I will never draw a moose tag than ever draw.
From: sticksender
02-Jul-20
For my way of thinking, the multiple choice thing is one of the negatives of the NM system. Especially if you're a bow-only hunter. For a species like ibex, for one example, it makes the archery season much harder to draw. Guys list the OIL rifle tag as their first choice, that being the hunt they REALLY want, but then go ahead and put down the archery hunt as a lower choice consolation prize. Without the 2nd choice option, there'd be far fewer apps in the pool for the archery hunt. This holds true for other species as well. As the applicant pool size has swollen over time, the demand is now so high for most of these hunts, that there's no good logic to allowing multiple choices. Other than to provide false solace to applicants.
From: splitlimb13
02-Jul-20
Sticksender, I to would like to see anyone who applied for an archery hunt have to apply archery across the board for whatever species it is . It's been brought up to the g&f commission in the past. Still I'd rather have a mixed weapon application vs a point system any day. As far as your issue with the multiple choices, I guess I don't see your logic in that. Every year I draw 2nd or third choices, if not for having the option to submit 3-4 choices I'd be staying home instead of hunting. Just knowing how the draw system and doing homework on odds can give some great chances of drawing tags each year.
From: NoWiser
02-Jul-20
I'm a big fan of NM and ID. I got in the game way too late to draw a top tag in most states. In NM I drew a Gila elk tag my 1st year applying (I've struck out every year since) and I just drew a 2% odds mule deer rut tag in Idaho my first year of applying there. There are no other states I'd have a realistic shot at drawing tags of those calibers because I'm so far behind in the points game.
From: Brotsky
02-Jul-20
I'm a huge fan of whatever one works for me that season :) They all have pluses and minuses, just have to keep grinding.
From: Zim
02-Jul-20
Interesting to see some mention Nevada, because I predict that will be the next system to implode. New ground floor applicants and their money are down to a trickle there due to thousands of squared points ahead of them. Ground flood odds for everything are off the charts astronomical compared to the alternatives.
From: WapitiBob
02-Jul-20
I like all of them. I have a chance to draw with zero points in all the states I apply in; OR, AZ, NM, UT, and WY. The more points I have, the better my chances in the random side for UT and AZ, and at some point, depending on the hunt unit, I'll have max points for that hunt and will be assured to draw in OR, UT, AZ, and WY.
From: NoWiser
02-Jul-20
My feelings are the same as yours, Zim. If Nevada had a random draw, or even straight bonus points, I'd apply there every single year for multiple species. With squared points, I don't feel it's a wise use of my money.
From: YZF-88
02-Jul-20
I’d say Idaho if you plan on hunting there anyway and buy a license. If not, spending $160 for slim odds isn’t worth it.
From: Z Barebow
02-Jul-20
No one state has the perfect system. Some are better than others. And some states would be a waste of money if you are a newcomer to the system.
That is why I apply in multiple states. Each state particular nuances that appeals to me.
From: IdyllwildArcher
02-Jul-20
Nevada's odds are more a product of small numbers of tags. No system is going to fix that. You can put in 5 choices in for every specie in NV and every choice for all species is a great tag.
When I started applying in NV 8 years ago, it seemed daunting looking up at what was in front of me. Eight years later and this season I drew a very low-odds-of-drawing PH tag (although I'm probably going to have to turn it back in because I drew a WY PH tag too). And who knows what I'll draw over the next 30-35 years of applying. If I draw one elk or sheep tag in NV, in my book, it'll have made 40 years of applying worth it. And I almost certainly will eventually draw 1 or more pretty dang good mule deer tags.
From: RD in WI
02-Jul-20
I like SD and MN - it is a simple exchange of money for a tag. What I would like to see states do is have a fixed number of tags, assign a number to people who apply, and when the tag number matches the applicant's number, he or she gets a tag. Meaning - lets say a state has 4000 NR elk tags and I am the 35, 611th person to apply for it. I would get my elk tag during the ninth year. All new applicants go to the end of the line, so one person doesn't get 3 hunts before another person gets their chance. Whenever you apply, you pay for the tag. Simple process without any stress.
From: NoWiser
02-Jul-20
That's basically a straight preference point system like Colorado has, and they suck.
From: Bake
02-Jul-20
I've been in the game 13 or 14 years. I've drawn 2 tags in Nevada, 1 in some other states, and none in still others.
I like Nevada's system.
From: wildwilderness
02-Jul-20
Didn’t see mentioned that ID makes NR choose either deer/elk or for Moose/sheep/mt goat.
Also Utah does the opposite and makes Residents choose One OIL species and One LE species.
My opinion is that a random draw, coupled with waiting periods -calculated on demand for tag- would be the most fair for all.
From: MichaelArnette
02-Jul-20
Nevada gets not vote
If New Mexico didn’t have the whole landowner/guide draw tag thing I would say New Mexico but they need to give a bit more to non residents. Wyoming is not bad either
Colorado sells too many tags to non-residents and needs caps on elk at least.
From: Outdoordan
02-Jul-20
Idaho and New Mexico, to say one is better than the other is kind of silly. Both are random, one only allows 6% to go to unguided NR (NM), the other up to 10% NR tags (ID). In Idaho if you don't draw you can hunt OTC tags (if they aren't sold out) and hunt Elk, Deer, Bear, Wolf, Lion, and Birds (grouse are an excellent addition to your bag) with archery all at the same time.
From: ELKMAN
03-Jul-20
I like the random states by far better than all the point creep states. I am now just straight OTC (Elk/Deer)from this point forward. I am done on the hampster wheel FOREVER.
From: Zim
03-Jul-20
Haha speaking of hamster wheel, although I am still on the hook in many states, I am thrilled to jump off the Oregon wheel this year. In grand style burning 21 NR elk points last year, and 44 deer & lope points this year. 65 points in two years same state, and $172/year in fat cut out of my life. 2 1/2% quota in rear view window!
From: Zim
03-Jul-20
My next hamster wheel to exit will likely be Utah. Only thing keeping me in there now is 25 deer points and low license fee. If I draw deer and UT jacks nonrefundable fee I will exit stage left. Might burn the 10 marginal value elk points as well on a lower tier hunt. The rest of the points are of very little value. I’d bail on those.
I think the better remaining systems are WY & ID.
From: wyliecoyote
05-Jul-20
If you are just talking about the system...Calif. is amazing in that it only takes them 9 days from close of application on all big game to the posting of results. The limit of 1 NR elk tag is overly strict considering only Cali has the Tule Elk specie.
Joe
From: Hans 1
05-Jul-20
Wyoming still gets my vote as the best Western state overall . Arizona has sunk to one of the worst now due them allowing tags to be turned in and points restored. Now if someone draws a tag and paid point Guard on there application and it turns dry or someone’s scouting doesn’t turn up good results they can send the tag back right up until the day before the hunt. This has rapidly increased point creep as it doesn’t remove the op point holders.
