Pope Ann Young headquarter
Contributors to this thread:General Topic
From: Bowhunter09
26-Nov-20
Got a message from Pope and Young club that they are selling the museum and office in Minnesota to save money and continue the financial viability of the organization. Only 1000 visitors per year to the museum. They will lease or buy smaller office space. They have not determined where the museum contents will go.
From: Bou'bound
26-Nov-20
Good move. It’s about the work they do and the show is secondary. Gotta survive the near term to win long term
From: Drnaln
26-Nov-20
Hope they find a good home for everything!
From: Pete In Fairbanks
26-Nov-20
Makes me glad that I was able to visit there some years ago....
Pete
From: greg simon
26-Nov-20
Got that email also. Can’t say I’m surprised. It sounds like a responsible move.
From: JL
26-Nov-20
From a business perspective.........would it make sense...to me at least, to team up with B&C and move in or partner with them? Consolidate the resources so to speak. With B&C being located in a central place along the interstate, I would think the foot traffic would increase and everyone would win.
From: GhostBird
26-Nov-20
Looks like the museum may be housed in a Bass Pro/Cabelas.
From: Jaquomo
26-Nov-20
I have been advocating for relocation of the museum to a more hospitable place for more than 10 years, since my first visit there. Great resource, bad location. Received some positive response, and some very negative responses (understandable, from paid staffers who live in Chatfield). Glad to see it is finally coming to fruition.
From: Native Okie
26-Nov-20
Good to see this move being made.
From: huntnmuleys
26-Nov-20
Jaquomo I completely agree. I love going there, but the location is anything but good. On one hand I’m sad to see it moving just because it’s traditionally been there, but this needs to be done
From: Missouribreaks
26-Nov-20
No matter where the museum goes it will not be convenient for a large portion of hunters. All my best to them as they move forward.
From: t-roy
26-Nov-20
I would agree, as well. I do work in the Chatfield area every year, and have visited the museum several times. It’s a neat place, but it’s certainly not in a high traffic area, to say the least. A more centralized location would see exponentially more foot traffic. A place like Des Moines (I 80 & I 35) Kansas City (I 70 & I 35) are two spots that come to mind. I’m sure there are several other favorable spots.
From: Kurt
26-Nov-20
I was a "new" regular member attending the Salt Lake City Convention (2001?) where the planned museum locating to Chatfield was voted on. I was the only "member" voting against it as I recall. After the meeting adjourned I was rudely informed by a board member from Chatfield that my vote wouldn't be counted since I hadn't officially been accepted as a regular member yet at the time of the vote despite being invited to the regular member meeting and being accepted as a regular during the meeting. This was after about 15 years of being an associate club member and attending many previous conventions.
My reasoning was why would a small club want a huge headquarters building to purchase, heat and maintain (taxes?) in an out of the way location? Anyway, guess it took 20 years to discover that it was not a good location nor building size...10,000 sq ft. Hopefully we can make a decent profit on the building and recharge the club treasury. Also get the museum located in a high traffic area that somehow could generate memberships and revenues. Bet it is tough times for a lot of the national level clubs right now, not just P&Y.
From: Treeline
26-Nov-20
I remember that one Kurt. Was still an associate. Remember our discussion and I agree wholeheartedly. Chatfield is a bit off the beaten path.
Although not a huge fan of Bass Pro/Cabelas after the merger, they do have great facilities. If Cabelas was still going, Sidney would be an awesome location that would get a lot of traffic from all directions.
From: Trial153
26-Nov-20
Received the same email. Very surprised by the annual costs though more so by the willingness of the club maintain such an expense for all these years. I agree with the move, long over due.
I am however perplexed by the hiring of a marketing firm in the effort to rebrand the image of the club. Like it or not the clubs image is a product of the membership. Shouldn't we be doing the rebranding ourselves though a combination of self introspection or the affirmation of the current wants and needs of the membership? What's this say about us ?
From: Missouribreaks
26-Nov-20
Unfortunately, as the scoped and cocked crossbow use grows by double digits, it leaves a declining potential audience for the P&Y Club. A rough road ahead.
From: greg simon
26-Nov-20
I can just see the suggestion from a marketing firm now.
“Accepting record book entries from crossbows would help numbers”
And we are going to pay them for this!
From: Bou'bound
26-Nov-20
You can’t protect yourself into obsolecence. They may need to look at very different revenue sources to survive.
You know the saying. If you don’t like change you may like becoming irrelevant even less.
From: Missouribreaks
26-Nov-20
Greg Simon is correct.
From: BOHNTR
26-Nov-20
Crossbow entries will no longer an issue for P&Y in the bear future, IMO.....a new organization has gained permission from B&C to utilize their scoring system for crossbow only entries. Minimums are reportedly going to be similar to P&Y’s. There will now be an avenue for all groups, which is a good thing, IMO.
From: longbeard
26-Nov-20
Wait...the Pope is a woman? When did that happen?
From: Buffalo1
26-Nov-20
I wonder what the minimum score for the new crossbow organization will be?
From: Missouribreaks
26-Nov-20
You guys are missing the point. As more and more migrate to the scoped and cocked crossbow, there will be fewer hunters interested in the P&Y Club. That means less revenue. Might be the end, do not need a paid consultant to figure that one out.
From: Missouribreaks
26-Nov-20
By the way, I have posted about this trend for a few years. Nobody listened and some said on this very forum, the P&Y Club would never cave to the scoped and cocked. We will see how that works out.
From: BOHNTR
26-Nov-20
Crossbow entries will never be accepted.......especially now that they will have their own record organization and use P&Y/B&C measurers to assist.
From: Missouribreaks
26-Nov-20
That may be, but it spells the eventual slow deterioration of the P&Y. How will it grow with declining participation?
From: Drnaln
26-Nov-20
I believe P&Y will be better off with Cross-Bow hunters having their own record book to enter critters into. Way better then dealing with the pressure to accept them into P&Y. One less thing for members to deal with!
From: BOHNTR
26-Nov-20
It’s been the same member numbers (maybe a little higher) for the last 20 years. It’s not declining......just not increasing at the rate desired.
From: Jaquomo
26-Nov-20
I find many younger hunters are very interested in the score of their animals, but not in entering them or joining the Club. But younger people aren't "joiners" unless there is something tangible in it for them. Inlike folks of my generation who joined clubs for the camaraderie and to have a sense of belonging. Nowadays, that sense of belonging is in everybody's hand for free.
From: greg simon
27-Nov-20
Lou, I don’t know about free! But you are spot on with your point.
From: sticksender
27-Nov-20
I've always wondered why you never hear guys like Levi Morgan, Lee Lakosky, Michael Waddell & etc make any mention of the P&Y club. With their massive access to the public on social media, they could do the club some good. Even just one of the big-name celeb bowhunters advocating for the club, the way Jim Shockey did for SCI, could make a world of difference.
From: Missouribreaks
27-Nov-20
Fragmentation.
From: Missouribreaks
27-Nov-20
In a typical setting, there is generally a slow down in growth, followed by a decline as others age out. The consultants will immediately recognize the pattern and offer potential solutions. Good luck to all involved.
From: Trial153
27-Nov-20
Those guys mentioned arent endorsing anything or anyone without a pay check attached to it. Which is fine, that's their prerogative. We need to look at our own actions before we look towards others.
I disagree that young outdoorsmen and women will only join organizations for a handout. ignorant statements like that are a good example of why some organizations are stagnant if that's the message members send to prospective members
From: Jaquomo
27-Nov-20
Trial, not a message, just fact based on statistics from hunting and archery organizations I belong to. Look at the P&Y membership age data. I believe the average age now is over 50 and the overall membership is aging rapidly. Colorado Bowhunter Association, RMEF, NWTF, Pheasants Forever, PBS, etc...etc.., take your pick. Young people aren't joining. You've been to P&Y conventions - they are like old folks homes in camo.
Bigger than that, PR reps from different wildlife agencies across the country I interviewed for an article on a related topic all basically agreed that they've pretty much given up on youth recruitment, because almost all stop hunting when they turn 18-19 and leave home.
From: Highlife
27-Nov-20
Hell just look at the low membership for archery clubs. IMO that hurts our cause immensely.
From: Jaquomo
27-Nov-20
Jaquomo's Link
One of many interesting articles about why millennials don't join clubs and associations.
From: Highlife
27-Nov-20
Lou thanks for the article very helpful.
From: Jaquomo
27-Nov-20
Our local archery club is going strong, nearly 500 members, but that's because a membership allows free shooting at the city-owned range (which the club maintains, buys targets, etc.) vs. paying a daily fee, and members get $5 shooting at Wednesday 3-D leagues all summer. Many members are in their 20's and 30's because of the 3-D leagues.
Even so, on any given day roughly half the range shooters aren't club members and don't buy passes because the city doesn't enforce it.
From: JusPassin
27-Nov-20
The P&Y club in Chatfield is also home to the MN State Archers Hall of Fame. Now they too will have to find a new home.
From: Ambush
27-Nov-20
After reading the article that Lou posted, I have to say that I’m shocked and disappointed to learn that “Get Off My Lawn” is not working to attract new members.
From: Jaquomo
27-Nov-20
JusPassin, I've been to the museum three times, including once with a personal tour by Glenn Hisey, and I didn't know about the MN archery HOF. Probably not much of an attraction to anybody except families of inductees?
From: Bou'bound
27-Nov-20
Hunters in the US are an aging demo why would anything associated with the sport be different
We don’t replace at the pace there is loss. All Leaky buckets eventually end up empty
From: BOHNTR
27-Nov-20
Just for clarification, the MUSEUM is NOT being sold. It will be moved to a more suitable location so all can enjoy it. The current building/property where everything has been housed for years is being sold.
From: jjs
27-Nov-20
Just a rumor that it will relocate to Springfield,Mo. with Bass Pro and the Fred Bear museum along with the traffic it would be the logical place, Black Widow shop is close also.. Enjoy going to the P&Y museum, not far from where I live but understand the location.
From: RD
27-Nov-20
Jaquomo, you're right, Mn HOF is only one room in the back of the museum and rarely gets much attention.
From: 4nolz@work
27-Nov-20
Is there an XB record book organization?
From: BOHNTR
27-Nov-20
Yes. It is a new group that is just getting organized.
From: 4nolz@work
27-Nov-20
Does it have a name?
From: Bou'bound
27-Nov-20
Bolts & Bows Club maybe
From: BOHNTR
27-Nov-20
I believe it was Bolts and Quarrel, but I’m not 100% positive on that.
From: Missouribreaks
27-Nov-20
It is called " Scoped and Cocked Club"
From: Bou'bound
27-Nov-20
Hunters in the US are an aging demo why would anything associated with the sport be different
We don’t replace at the pace there is loss. All Leaky buckets eventually end up empty
From: RK
27-Nov-20
I think moving P&Y to Springfield MO. MIGHT be a good thing
Like most entertainment venues the more that are clustered together the more they are all visited. A destination venue
If there is a new crossbow org. They should end up there as well
One stop shopping. Springfield is a good place and with Branson just down the road it makes perfect sense
From: HeadHunter®
29-Nov-20
Well I ain't saying much, but I have seen something like this coming. "Old People" have died off .... actually or in disgust the way The Club has turned .... I'm NOT getting into the politics but I feel hiring a 'firm' for advise is also a loss! AT One Time The Club was held in high regard, now and for probably the last 15+ years, not so much! ...CHANGE is not always good! And CHANGE did & has destroyed The Club! .... jmho !
From: JL
29-Nov-20
HH....just curious, what in your opinion has destroyed the club? Rule changes, business model, leadership structure, etc??
From: Jaquomo
29-Nov-20
HH may still be bitter that they let compound bows in...
From: Aspen Ghost
29-Nov-20
I have to confess ignorance about P&Y. Other than keep records of antler measurements of deer taken by bowhunters do they have some other mission?
As far as the museum I wonder if a chain like Cabelas would offer some space in their stores for free or at a reasonable cost. Could rotate portions of the museum through the stores every so often so you could eventually see the entire collection at your local Cabelas. The benefit to the stores is to draw in customers. The benefit to P&Y is that expert marketers have identified these prime store locations for the same target customers. So increased exposure for P&Y and an opportunity to reach far more potential members.
From: Chief 419
29-Nov-20
I'm not sure what the future will hold, but if you've never seen the museum in it's current state, you've missed out. It's a catalog of bowhunting history. Yes, its off the beaten path. It's well worth the trip if you're in the area. Hopefully the new location(s) will attract members and peak interest in those that don't bowhunt.
From: WI Shedhead
29-Nov-20
Ag- Join and attend the convention in Reno this spring. It will be the best thing you’ve done for your bow hunting career. As thier quote on thier podcasts states- “Not all bow hunters are pope and young, but pope and young is for ALL bow hunters.”
From: HeadHunter®
29-Nov-20
"JL" ... John, in my opinion all you mentioned plus more .... I am not going to get into all of that though. It is what it is now .... no going back! "Jaquomo" .... Lou you evidently don't know me. "Elitist" is not in my vocabulary. Although some of us started shooting back in "The Old Days" because at that time that is all we had. It's not The Bow that makes one a Bow Hunter, but the individual that defines them as to IF they are a Bow Hunter! The Club is/was very important to me and many others. We participated and donated and kind of lived The Club. We were proud to be members. We supported mentoring others into The Tradition & Heritage of The Bow & Arrow. Hunters and non-hunters alike. Glenn St.Charles did a great service to Bow Hunting & Bow Hunters when he and a few others started The Club. I always respected him and the others for that! -}}}}}}}}}}}----------------->
From: HoytHntr4
22-Dec-20
Dropped my daughter off at the daycare across the street this morning and noticed the For Sale sign is up
Dropped my daughter off at the daycare across the street this morning and noticed the For Sale sign is up
From: Kurt
22-Dec-20
Not sure if the link will work but you can take a quick video tour at Braasch Commercial Real Estate. It's the Chatfield listing.
https://looplink.braaschcommercial.com/Listing/273-Mill-Creek-Rd-NW-Chatfield-MN/21798108/ Commercial Real Estate:
From: JayZ
22-Dec-20
Who thought putting this thing in Chatfield MN was a good idea? LOL.
From: Highlife
22-Dec-20
The guy who owned the land ;)
From: darralld
22-Dec-20
Bass Pro would be a good place for it. The Archery Hall of Fame is already in Springfield, so why not. I never could figure out why they had it at that location anyhow. Sure weren't going to get many visitors.
From: Glunker
22-Dec-20
First off some members had to have the foresight to start a museum to preserve the historical items they have to this point. It was a huge effort and we had members and the Hisey family that worked tirelessly to make it happen. Not sure it would have happened in N Y, Chicago or anywhere you live. I think the building was purchased right and might be a capital gain. No one thought this was a ticket selling money making operation but it would be nice to share what has been accumulated with an appreciative larger audience. It was a process that I was not involved in but it was a well done effort to get where it now is. I find it odd that some might be dismissive of the achievement.
From: keepemsharp
22-Dec-20
As some one that lives not too far from Springfield and Branson. I will say I have spent a year in Vietnam and a weekend in Branson and don't intend to go back.
From: Buffalo1
22-Dec-20
My wife and I toured the museum when the 50th Anniversary convention was held in Rochester. I was like dying and going to bowhunting heaven. The museum was very beautifully done.
It would definitely compliment the Archery Hall of Fame in BPS store in Branson?Springfield.
From: HeadHunter®
27-Dec-20
No One ever at P & Y Hdq. returned my e-mail asking about Commemorative Bricks done 'in memory of' out front of Museum / Hdq. walk way ..... IF we can get them back ?? ....or are they being 'disposed' of also ??
From: Charlie Rehor
27-Dec-20
That’s a good question HeadHunter and we should get an answer. I have a brick there in memory of my Dad and hope I can get it.
From: BOHNTR
28-Dec-20
The plan is to see if the new museum location will include a space for the bricks, as they are part of the history (support) of the museum. However, If the location is not feasible for a proper display, they will be given back to the donors.
From: JSW
28-Dec-20
Herman, Your comments are unfair and not necessary. Nothing is being "disposed" of. The commemorative bricks create a concern and we will work that out when the time comes.
The Club is following through with the original dreams of the St. Charles family. We are trying to get the museum in a location where it can be most appreciated. That is exactly what Joe St. Charles wrote about in one of his early columns as museum curator. Our efforts to move the museum to a new location has the support of the St. Charles family and unanimous support of the Board of Directors.
I don't think anyone expected the museum to remain in Chatfield forever when it was moved from Washington to Minnesota. If you are happy with only about 1000 visitors per year, you are doing the collection a huge disservice.
Believe it or not, the P&Y Board of Directors spend a lot of time discussing what is best for bowhunting, best for the Club and best for the museum. That's why we have a 13 member Board of very qualified and dedicated members from all over the country.
From: bigbuck
28-Dec-20
I was hoping someday to make it to the museum in Chatfield but looks like i will have to wait a while but will make it someday would hope that it would be somewhere close to the middle of the country .
From: Drnaln
28-Dec-20
Make it easy....Send Herman his money back or the brick? Let me know how much it cost to do that?
From: Bou'bound
28-Dec-20
Get in a bass pro or cabelas and you’ll be good. Get out of nowheresville and let people see the history. It will never be a standalone destination but I can be a great added attraction to a host facility. That model will work well
From: Zim
04-Jan-21
Glad my employer added Minnesota to my work area in 2019. Took advantage by stopping by Chatfield during my first trip up there. The wife and I were discussing why they would choose such a remote location for all that history to share. I am in favor of a move. If it’s Sprinfield that’s cool too because it’s also in my work area.
From: Missouribreaks
04-Jan-21
Wonder if they will feature the evolution of the crossbow? There are some really unique early types from hundreds of years ago. Both Cabelas and Bass Pro are mega supporters of the crossbow. They sell literally thousands in their archery sections and advertise them more than bows and arrows.
From: Bou'bound
04-Jan-21
Probably will
From: BOHNTR
04-Jan-21
Never!
