Adding weight to carbon
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
I’ve been so busy over the last couple years. I should know this answer. And, I think I do. But, I’m also the guy who tends to forget more then I absorb. lol. And, I’ve paid attention to other things and might have missed a new idea.
Anyways, I want to add some weight to my arrows. I’m currently shooting a 430 grain beman ics. 340 spine at 27 inches long. I’d like to get it to 500-525 grains.
It’s been a good weight for me in the past. Meaning I get pass through in the dirt on everything I’ve shot. There’s been some bear and elk in there too. So, it performs on everything well with my draw weight and draw length.
Which is another issue. I can shorten the arrow to increase spine if need be. And, I’m not against some point weight increase. I like it on my trad bows. But, have never saw the use for a high foc on a compound.
I know I could buy different arrows. But, I’ve got about three dozen of these as I found them on sale really cheap. They are .001 or .003 straightness. So, it’s a good arrow. And, with no reliable or compatibly affordable XX78 any longer available, I’d like to make these work. So, throw the ideas at me please. Thanks again.
Put on a heavy head and see how it shoots. 200 grains or so.
I have a bunch of weight tubes that I have used in the past. They don’t affect spine on the arrows.
Have a couple of different grain per inch sizes.
Would have to go dig them out to see why they are. Let me know if you’re interested.
I’m am indeed interested Tavis.
Weed eater line. Different thicknesses add different weight. The red I use adds about 2 GPI. We kink it in several places before inserting into the shaft to keep it from rattling or blowing out the nock.
I've used weight tubes too, and they are fine, but need to be sized to fit the shaft diameter, and they cost $1.50 each. Weed eater string is practically free and does the job just fine.
You dont say what poundage you shoot but at 27"s you can load those 340's up pretty good even if you shoot 70#s, cut a half inch more off and you can add another 25-50 grains. I would say you can shoot 250 grains of point weight on them at 26.5"s and shooting 70#s or under. I shot 26.5" 400 spine with a 190 grains of point weight with a 27.5" draw and 67-68#s for a long time and got perfect hole in paper and accuracy with broadheads out to 90 yards. Shawn
Weed eater line is what I’ve used and it worked well for me.
Shawn, it’s a 71 pound mission ballistic at 27”. It spits ‘em out pretty dang good. It’s rated for 330 so odd FPS. My current hunting setup is doing somewhere close to 270. Maybe a bit more. Maybe a bit less. It’s quiet too. It’s the only bow I’ve shot deer with that they don’t react to the string noise. Trad or compound.
I went out today and put a 200 grain grizzly single bevel on it and I really liked the way it felt and it literally is whisper quiet. However, it was hitting left of impact. Ironically, at 30 yards, it’s elevation was no different then the 125 grain head I normally shoot. I don’t know if it’s due to being a single bevel or the tip weight was affecting the tune.
Lou, I tried the weed eater line before but couldn’t keep it from knocking out the knocks. I’ll give it a go again because I never tried it on compound arrows and I never bent it over like that. The weight tubes I used before were as you said. They’d bounce the knock out if not fitted perfectly. But, I don’t have anymore to try.
I was thinking earlier I could cut a good inch off the arrow. Put a 50 grain insert in it, put a footing on it, load it up with some lines or tubes, put some three inch vanes on it and get it to where I want it.
I don’t know. I’m just getting bored again. Might just switch back to trad bows for a while.
Thanks guys. And, if there is anymore suggestions not mentioned, feel free to offer it up.
Nick, I remember you saying that before. I’ll give it another try kinking it this time.
I know some trad guys who used to put pepper down inside the shaft. Don't know the details of how they managed it, but as you know 10 grains this way or that doesnt make any difference with trad shooting.
If you’re having issues with nocks getting blown out, there are always these jobs.
High FOC from a compound may not be necessary, but I can’t see it hurting anything. Of course, a lot of guys never had any problems with “normal” FOC from a stickbow, either.
Just me: I want all of the weight in my arrow staying put, and with brass/steel inserts and screw-in adapters for glue-on broadheads and glue-on BH that can run north of 200 grains, there’s no reason that I can’t have as much weight up front as I want. Like a 100-grain brass insert with a 125 grain adapter inside of as heavy a glue-on as you’d care to use...
Cut to 26"s if ya can and add a weighted nock and an arrow wrap that will add 30 plus grainsarbons stiffen a lot and help stiffen the arrow a tad. I myself would turn the bow down to 65#s or so and shoot what ya just shot but if not you can do like I said and spibe will be fine. Hitting left with a compound does not reallyshow a weak spine like a recurve unless you are still using a cushion pleneger type rest. I have tuned both compounds and recurves for a lot of years and carbons stiffen a lot for every 1/2" ya cut off of them. Shawn
A drop of cement will help keep your nocks in the shaft.
GF, Glue on broad heads, as a whole will not stand up to the power and energy produced by a modern compound. Meaning most will bend on the tip. Notice I said most. Not all. Because COC, unless single beveled are weak on the tip. I bent them regularly with trad setups. From snuffers through a dozen or so two blade models.
Also, I’ve only used two models of COC heads from a compound. And bent them too. Interestingly, the only time I ever remember not getting a pass through on a deer while using a compound, shooting a heavy shaft, was when it was tipped with a COC head. And both times the tip was bent over in a curl.
Keep in mind, I’m not advocating dicey angles and questionable shots. But, I’ve killed a bunch of deer with bows and arrows. And, you can build an arrow that presents you almost any shot angle you choose to take on a deer. Using a compound bow. If you have the arrow weight, integrity, and a broad head with a tip made to split bone.
I hunt from the ground a lot and like having that ability. Which is what is driving this thread. With out having a reliable source to buy affordable aluminum shafting, that comes heavy from the start, I’m going to build arrows capable of doing that again. It’s the difference a lot of times when you are face to face with a whitetail on the ground.
“ A drop of cement will help keep your nocks in the shaft.”
That’s true, but then a broken nock = a trashed/mismatched arrow, no?
I glued in my nocks for my tapered carbons after they got split on hard impacts, but it was a one-shot solution. The aluminum adapters work a lot better for me. Installing with hot-melt so I can recycle them when I bust a shaft.
WV - you’re right about compounds creating impact forces that tradbows can’t usually touch; but there are some darned heavy glue-ons put there. I’d check with Bowmania if you’re interested.
I’m surprised by your results with COCs, because I know guys who do shoot very heavy stickbows with heads like (and including) the Ace offerings and they’ve never mentioned the tip-curling as an issue. YMMV situation, I guess, but I always wonder what’s different??
Anyway, I still like to have the weight solidly in place... YMMV on that as well, eh?
I shoot heavier trad bows I suppose. I’ve owned and shot animals with them as high as 78 pounds of draw weight. And, you gotta hit something to make them bend. See above, I hunt from the ground and will take what’s presented at times.
WV, VPA makes screw ins as heavy as 300 grains. I shoot their 175's out of both my compounds and recurves. The head that is on my number 1 arrow right now has gone through 6 whitetails and also survived 2 misses. Their glue ons are similar tough. I used to shoot 90 plus pounds in both trad bows and wheel bows. My shoulders are dne with that and that is why I said turn your bow down. Nothing in north america needs more than 60#s and a a medium to heavy arrow with a crazy sharp COC braodhead!! I shot through a big Iowa whitetail and an equally big nebraska whitetail shooting 55# and a 490 grain arrow with my 175 grain VPA's. Both shot through the shoulders and that heavy cartaliage both were pass thrus. Shawn
If you could cut off the insert end, add a 100 grain brass insert, that should get you to right around 500 using your current broadhead. Assuming you have the standard 21 grain insert in now and you will cut off about 10 grains of arrow.
“It’s been a good weight for me in the past. Meaning I get pass through in the dirt on everything I’ve shot. There’s been some bear and elk in there too. So, it performs on everything well with my draw weight and draw length.“
What’s the reasoning behind upping total arrow weight if your current setup performs so well?
I know my buddies and I have messed with great performing set ups in the past out of curiosity. In my experience sticking with the setup that works great was better in the end.
Knowing your arrow trajectory and how you current setup shoots is probably more important than adding weight just for the sake of adding weight.
The quote was referring to my older weight. Not my current arrow weight. I’m a don’t fix it if ain’t broke kinda guy. Which is why I want a 500-525 grain arrow.
Glue the weedeater line to the nock. Make sure the weedeater line is long enough to touch the insert so it doesn't rattle. A little fletchtite on the front of the weedeater line before you stick it in if they still pop off once and a while. That's what I have in my daughters arrows.
A 100 grain brass incert should get you close to a 90 grain gain in weight unless you have to cut some off for spine. Still should be a significant gain . Possibly above the 500 grain mark.
Gold tip makes a weight screw that slides inside the arrow from the back (after temporarily removing nock) then slide them forward up to back of insert and thread them to reverse side of insert.... available in 10,20,50 grains...can be stacked(threaded) together for a custom weight ...requires a long hex wrench....even though made by Gold Tip they fit many other brands of arrows as well..... available from Lancaster Archery...which I think is a sponsor here... Can be removed easily also...
Finding brass inserts for Easton arrows is impossible right now, just saying.
Pepper will add roughly 50 grains at 27 in.
340s at 27 inches should be able to cut short and run a 200 grain head and gain on length of head
Fubar, it shot the 200 grain grizzly high for the weight and, to the left. Like I said earlier, I’m not sure why the left. But, when you also consider it’s shooting the same weight field point 3.5-4” low without the left impact, it sure changed tune somehow.
I stuffed a double layer of green weed eater line in it. I haven’t dug out my scale to weigh it but, I’m guessing I’m right around 520-530. It shoots well. Just low.
I’m sure I could cut the shaft some and gain spine. But, I want a footing too. Carbons without footings for what I want are oxymorons. You hit something hard and it’s going to mushroom. It’s got to have a footing. Which I don’t want fooling with my drop always starting arrow elevation.
Anyways, I think I’ve decided to go with the line. It’s cheap, easy, and accomplishes my goal without forcing me to start moving my rest or, cutting my arrows. It leaves me just enough to foot the 27” shaft.
Thanks guys.