This is not intended to be a political thread, please allow it for a little mods. Actually, it is about snobbery. You see, I maybe don't admit it openly, but I am proud I quit rifle hunting nearly 30 years ago. Bow only for me! And even though Native Americans did not have compounds, I always thought I shared more in common with the "purist" pursuit of game with my brethren natives with regards to hunting than I do my own ancestry- Caucasian, grandson of immigrants to this country. Not even sure I am being politically correct in how I am describing stuff, and quite frankly, have grown tired of being concerned about who will get their feelings hurt. FTR, I have recently in PMs been called a fat, old guy, and am not offended by the truth. They could have added in ugly and I still would have agreed.
So, the political part of all of this is the Tribe, my beloved Cleveland Indians, the true Cubs now, announced they are changing their name. Why? I respect the heck out of hunting with bow and arrows. It is much more difficult. And yes, I know some of the horror stories of fires and cliffs, yet most were able to shoot bison while sitting atop a horse galloping at full speed using nothing but completely hand made "traditional" archery.
Here is the important part of this. Will this madness eventually affect bowhunting? At some point will society connect our approach to being politically incorrect and demand it stop? Right now most everyone I talk with respects that I hunt with a bow. But recently I did have one student say she thought firearms were more humane and killed quicker. Hmm, got me thinking.
Maybe the Tribe does have something to do with the future of bowhunting and we should wake up. Maybe being awoke will take on an entirely new meaning. I respect the heck out of native American history and always thought we named teams like the Chiefs and Indians because of respect. I thought the same about archery hunting. Are things about to change and maybe bows will be what they come after next as the second amendment doesn't include them directly. Maybe we need the equivalent of the NRA for bowhunting?
Maybe Cleveland natives would be a more appropriate name but it certainly was nothing derogatory. I'd be fine with "Slovaks" or Hungarians as that is my ancestors. People are way too sensitive.
Funny side note, couple years ago stopped to get diesel in Mt ot a reservation gas station and I didn't realize I was wearing a chief Wahoo shirt when I hear Go Tribe! Talked to that native American gentleman for a while. Cleveland was his favorite team and was not remotely offended.
How this cancel culture will affect hunting, I have no idea!
However, I don't think further fragmenting hunters, based on weapon choice, is the way to preserve any type of hunting. Most rabid anti-hunters don't differentiate between weapons, they hate all types of hunting. We stand little chance of changing their minds.
IMO, a better approach would be to focus on the opinions of non-hunters who aren't necessarily opposed to hunting, they just don't partake in it. Those will be the people who will ultimately decide the future of hunting. I think we should focus on things like the fact that hunting revenues provide the funding for wildlife conservation for all. Colorado's "Hug a Hunter" campaign comes to mind, as it was very successful with non-hunters.
I also think there's an "organic meat" angle that resonants with non-hunters. My wife is a prime example. She has never hunted, and never will, but she loves eating meat this isn't pumped with steroids and other crap that goes into most store-bought meat. I don't think she's alone in her opinions on that.
Just my 2 cents and a pocket full of lint....
Matt
Most of that was in jest, but seriously, until we all learn to mind our own bisquits this will only get worse. We're too far gone for diplomacy; this will have to be settled on the playground and in the streets. America needs a serious RESET!
When will the P.C. end? Many of our states, counties, cities, etc. have Indian names. Will these need to be changed also?
As to naming sports teams; who cares?!
"...one student say she thought firearms were more humane and killed quicker."
I hope you set her straight.
We are on the same page! And I won’t be able to get the game as our satellite company is in a squabble with the broadcaster.
SO TRUE!!!
If I had my druthers for a new name I like the Cleveland "Spiders" their older name over a century ago would make some cool logos, or the Cleveland Buckeyes of the negro league in the 1940's...
Also like the name the Cleveland "Great Lakers" too...
The rest of the names been floating around don't care much for but probably really doesn't matter anyhow since rumors the Dolans, the majority owners of the Cleveland Baseball Club is moving them to Nashville in a couple years once the Cleveland stadium lease is up in 2023...
"Cancel culture", "identity politics" those are areas where it seems so often leading edge political ideologies push. Go ahead, be a R the last 4 years and say you dislike one of the president's policy's or approaches. It's a level of incoming cancel culture that no far left idealist could even hope to achieve - like it or not, it's EXACTLY the same thing.
The challenge is the ability to register context, communicate with that in mind and be able to agree or disagree with ideas without assuming that makes the other person a sub human evil moron.
There are some authors that have written a lot about this from the perspective of social psychology and philosophy who really have some great points. Stephen Pinker, Jonathan Haidt, Michael Shermer all having great insights into this stuff.
Ill admit, part of what I like about them is that they are all often trashed by the leaders of the movement to the right and left, which suggests to me that they are actually thinking and looking for reality and not affirmation. Their books are worth a look H4W.
As for the Indians... Given they are on Lake Erie... I'm going with the Walleyes. That name would make me happy every time I heard it, and the logo of a toothy fish with googly eyes would be awesome. But if it ended up being the "Northern Ohio Indigenous Peoples" or "Kickapoo's" (I think that Native American Tribe was in that area) that would be cool too. Seriously, Kickapoo... They would sell a million hats / shirts etc on day one :)
Or maybe the Cleveland "Needs A Pair"?
“ Go ahead, be a R the last 4 years and say you dislike one of the president's policy's or approaches. It's a level of incoming cancel culture that no far left idealist could even hope to achieve - like it or not, it's EXACTLY the same thing.”
Will, Are you freaking serious? People on the Right are losing jobs and their livelihood because of the cancel culture from the Left. Teachers, Actors, Doctors, Nurses, Policeman, students, and others have been targets of the lunatic Left’s push for cancellation of anyone who disagrees with them To suggest the Left is more benign is outrageous and factually incorrect.
How bout the Lake Erie Monsters? Erie is an Indian name so do we change that as well and does that include the actual lake?
He has, literally, the biggest megaphone on earth from his position right now, and the past 4 years.
And he canceled any one who presented an idea he didnt like with the consistency of a sun rise.
That said, I should have left that out of my last post, because my focus was on options to rename (or not) the Indians.
So, apologies for the frustration.
Slow down...it’s just a joke.
Tribe owners, the Dolans released a statement yesterday that the new nickname will have no reference at all to Native Americans cultures, so anything associated with Indians is out...
The AHL hockey team the Lake Erie Monsters changed their name to the Cleveland Monsters a couple years ago... Luv their logo, and attached is my ball cap, which by the way I bought at an Indian's game in the gift shop at Progressive Field a couple years ago...
Tons of threads here about broad heads, blood trails, trail immediately or wait etc. And most of us are hunting with compounds equipped with sights, range finders, NJ (had to get that in there), carbon arrows etc.
I bet natives would have liked all of the broad heads we debate over today. That’s my point, archery hunting today is nothing like what it was when people made everything by hand with only what nature directly provided, and had to do it to survive. Did they discuss much about how long to wait to follow up a wounded animal? This was a tough life and their ferocity is indisputable. Now it is an insult to honor that culture?
Maybe I am leaping to conclusions, but at some point archery hunting seems destined for the same criticism IMHO. The criticism being white man turned archery hunting into something obscene compared to what it originated from. Will there be a major push to limit archery hunting to traditional equipment with all other tackle relegated to a general season?
Why do those in charge care so much what non-fans think? Why do they NOT care what the fans think and have to say? Simple, because they are not really fans themselves. It's just a job they do. They work for employers..... corporate employers, not the fans. Such as Sports Announcers and "commentators" really wish they were "real" news anchors and news anchors wish they were actors, thinking they are Brad Pitt.... they feel "relegated" to sports and "demoted" as their personal beliefs and virtuoso virtue signaling.... well, nobody really cares what those are. Just give us the scores and play by play..... we want to watch the game....
It's not just sports.... these same people are intentionally destroying everything of cultural entertainment they touch from Star Wars though Marvel Universe, Gaming.... everything. It's not enough to start their own.....they literally have to destroy what is iconic and appropriate it. Which is yet another irony they are blind to.... "appropriate" is an evil word in Woke vernacular.... unless it is them doing it.....
They not only don't work for the fans or even care.... many times they have an open disdain for them. It seems they can't make the connection of where the money starts off before the corps begin marketing it and manipulating it.
WRT native Americans and archery...... are you suggesting white "cultural appropriation"? They dropped those bows and arrows pretty much the first time they shot a rifle. Same as most sailors quit sailing 3 and 4 mast ships when steam engines came out and people quit using horse and buggies when cars came on the scene. There is production and efficiency..... and there are hobbies. There are still sail boats, horses and archery. But they are hobbies, they are non-essential..... no matter how deeply these things may be embedded in your cultural history. Cultural history itself is in fact just a hobby. Hobbies are things a person does out of choice, interest, even love. I grew up around 2 reservations and knew plenty of NA hunters.... all rifle hunters though. At the time (granted, a LONG time ago) I know of none that bowhunted and most laughed at us packing sharp sticks.
Hey.... what round you think that Player of the Week Vandy Kicker is going in???
