Have you had your covid shot?
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
Shuteye 08-Feb-21
JohnMC 08-Feb-21
ahunter76 08-Feb-21
PTArcher 08-Feb-21
BTM 08-Feb-21
Shuteye 08-Feb-21
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Boxcall70 08-Feb-21
paul@thefort 08-Feb-21
Rupe 08-Feb-21
Brian M. 08-Feb-21
obx 08-Feb-21
Elk369 08-Feb-21
greg simon 08-Feb-21
tundrajumper 09-Feb-21
Scrappy 09-Feb-21
WV Mountaineer 09-Feb-21
Steve H. 09-Feb-21
Mule Power 09-Feb-21
Too many bows Bob 09-Feb-21
Will 09-Feb-21
Bowboy 09-Feb-21
Bowbender 09-Feb-21
Nomad @ work 09-Feb-21
Mule Power 09-Feb-21
DanaC 09-Feb-21
yooper89 09-Feb-21
Whocares 09-Feb-21
Norseman 09-Feb-21
KHNC 09-Feb-21
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3rd Degree 09-Feb-21
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c5ken 09-Feb-21
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bowpackerRob 09-Feb-21
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dm/wolfskin 09-Feb-21
Bowfreak 09-Feb-21
Will 09-Feb-21
Rob Nye 09-Feb-21
Bowboy 09-Feb-21
Matt 09-Feb-21
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drmike 09-Feb-21
BIGHORN 09-Feb-21
billlmo 09-Feb-21
Ursman 09-Feb-21
Stringwacker 09-Feb-21
kakiatkids 09-Feb-21
samman 09-Feb-21
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elkmtngear 09-Feb-21
Will 09-Feb-21
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Mnhunter1980 09-Feb-21
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AZBUGLER 09-Feb-21
NoWiser 09-Feb-21
Cobie33 09-Feb-21
TEmbry 09-Feb-21
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Matt 09-Feb-21
Mild Bill 09-Feb-21
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Matt 09-Feb-21
Duke 09-Feb-21
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casper 10-Feb-21
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WV Mountaineer 10-Feb-21
carcus 10-Feb-21
heydeerman 10-Feb-21
Empty Freezer 10-Feb-21
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Croixbaby 10-Feb-21
trophyhill 10-Feb-21
Patdel 10-Feb-21
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Mule Power 10-Feb-21
Old School 10-Feb-21
Hackbow 10-Feb-21
WV Mountaineer 10-Feb-21
grossklw 10-Feb-21
trophyhill 10-Feb-21
Matt 10-Feb-21
Croixbaby 10-Feb-21
NoWiser 10-Feb-21
Tracker 10-Feb-21
Old School 10-Feb-21
Hawkarcher 10-Feb-21
JDBerry 10-Feb-21
MathewsMan 10-Feb-21
Lawdy 10-Feb-21
Scoot 10-Feb-21
elkmtngear 10-Feb-21
Woods Walker 10-Feb-21
Bob H in NH 10-Feb-21
Thornton 11-Feb-21
TEmbry 11-Feb-21
TrapperKayak 11-Feb-21
5575 11-Feb-21
Will 11-Feb-21
Bake 11-Feb-21
Thornton 11-Feb-21
LINK 11-Feb-21
elkmtngear 11-Feb-21
Cornpone 11-Feb-21
DanaC 11-Feb-21
wyobullshooter 11-Feb-21
MathewsMan 11-Feb-21
Matt 11-Feb-21
Jerry Leblanc 11-Feb-21
MuleyBum 11-Feb-21
EIStone 11-Feb-21
casper 12-Feb-21
Matt 12-Feb-21
DanaC 12-Feb-21
Scoot 12-Feb-21
Kevin Dill 12-Feb-21
trophyhill 12-Feb-21
Mule Power 12-Feb-21
Old School 12-Feb-21
Lawdy 12-Feb-21
tobywon 12-Feb-21
Bob H in NH 12-Feb-21
JL 12-Feb-21
Scoot 12-Feb-21
Will 12-Feb-21
Bowbender 12-Feb-21
Landshark Launcher 12-Feb-21
elkwatcher 12-Feb-21
Hackbow 12-Feb-21
Hackbow 12-Feb-21
Jackaroo 12-Feb-21
Bob H in NH 12-Feb-21
Grey Ghost 12-Feb-21
Hackbow 12-Feb-21
JL 12-Feb-21
midwest 12-Feb-21
Hackbow 12-Feb-21
70lbdraw 12-Feb-21
Hackbow 12-Feb-21
midwest 12-Feb-21
LINK 12-Feb-21
Scoot 12-Feb-21
JL 12-Feb-21
sjj 12-Feb-21
JL 12-Feb-21
Bowfreak 12-Feb-21
WV Mountaineer 12-Feb-21
70lbdraw 12-Feb-21
grape 12-Feb-21
JL 12-Feb-21
huntforever 12-Feb-21
Lawdy 12-Feb-21
Matt 12-Feb-21
sundowner 12-Feb-21
Glunt@work 12-Feb-21
trophyhill 13-Feb-21
Jerry Leblanc 13-Feb-21
Will 13-Feb-21
Tonybear61 13-Feb-21
Matt 13-Feb-21
Glunt@work 13-Feb-21
Too many bows Bob 13-Feb-21
Scoot 13-Feb-21
Matt 13-Feb-21
Glunt@work 13-Feb-21
Woods Walker 13-Feb-21
ND String Puller 13-Feb-21
RMhunter 14-Feb-21
DanaC 14-Feb-21
Mule Power 14-Feb-21
DanaC 14-Feb-21
Scoot 14-Feb-21
Dikndirt 14-Feb-21
Kevin Dill 14-Feb-21
Ziek 14-Feb-21
Ursus Hunter 14-Feb-21
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Mule Power 14-Feb-21
Bowbender 14-Feb-21
BOHNTR 14-Feb-21
Bowfreak 14-Feb-21
Glunt@work 14-Feb-21
Grey Ghost 14-Feb-21
Bake 14-Feb-21
Scoot 14-Feb-21
Ursus Hunter 14-Feb-21
Bake 14-Feb-21
Hackbow 14-Feb-21
Bowbender 14-Feb-21
Glunt@work 14-Feb-21
DiRTY MiKE 14-Feb-21
Woods Walker 14-Feb-21
DanaC 14-Feb-21
Thornton 14-Feb-21
DiRTY MiKE 14-Feb-21
Bake 14-Feb-21
Mule Power 14-Feb-21
Hopeless 16-Feb-21
Will 16-Feb-21
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Glunt@work 17-Feb-21
WV Mountaineer 17-Feb-21
midwest 17-Feb-21
craigmcalvey 17-Feb-21
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TreeWalker 17-Feb-21
Zim 18-Feb-21
DanaC 18-Feb-21
Will 18-Feb-21
Zbone 21-Feb-21
Grey Ghost 21-Feb-21
Scrappy 21-Feb-21
BC 21-Feb-21
Mule Power 21-Feb-21
Kevin Dill 22-Feb-21
Zbone 22-Feb-21
lewis 22-Feb-21
WapitiBob 22-Feb-21
Will 22-Feb-21
JL 22-Feb-21
TD 22-Feb-21
trublucolo 22-Feb-21
TwoDogs@work 23-Feb-21
JL 23-Feb-21
WV Mountaineer 23-Feb-21
bowhunt 23-Feb-21
Glunt@work 23-Feb-21
Hackbow 24-Feb-21
tundrajumper 24-Feb-21
Stringwacker 27-Feb-21
MQQSE 27-Feb-21
lewis 27-Feb-21
LBshooter 27-Feb-21
kstout 28-Feb-21
DiRTY MiKE 28-Feb-21
krieger 28-Feb-21
Matt 28-Feb-21
ahunter76 01-Mar-21
Kevin Dill 01-Mar-21
Bob H in NH 01-Mar-21
Glunt@work 01-Mar-21
Z Barebow 01-Mar-21
Brian M. 01-Mar-21
Jaquomo 01-Mar-21
Buffalo1 01-Mar-21
Kevin Dill 02-Mar-21
wyobullshooter 02-Mar-21
Kevin Dill 03-Mar-21
casper 03-Mar-21
'Ike' (Phone) 03-Mar-21
Matt 03-Mar-21
bb 04-Mar-21
Kevin Dill 04-Mar-21
midwest 04-Mar-21
BC 04-Mar-21
Rockbass 04-Mar-21
krieger 04-Mar-21
70lbdraw 04-Mar-21
WV Mountaineer 04-Mar-21
Will 04-Mar-21
70lbdraw 04-Mar-21
WV Mountaineer 04-Mar-21
bb 04-Mar-21
krieger 04-Mar-21
Will 04-Mar-21
Matt 04-Mar-21
MathewsMan 04-Mar-21
BSBD 04-Mar-21
KSflatlander 05-Mar-21
bb 05-Mar-21
krieger 05-Mar-21
Olink 05-Mar-21
Beav 05-Mar-21
bb 05-Mar-21
Will 05-Mar-21
WV Mountaineer 05-Mar-21
Rut Nut 05-Mar-21
drycreek 05-Mar-21
MarkU 05-Mar-21
70lbdraw 05-Mar-21
bb 05-Mar-21
Kevin Dill 05-Mar-21
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bigtines 05-Mar-21
MarkU 05-Mar-21
Matt 05-Mar-21
Matt 05-Mar-21
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Matt 05-Mar-21
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TEmbry 06-Mar-21
Jeff Holchin 06-Mar-21
petedrummond 06-Mar-21
Kevin Dill 06-Mar-21
BC 06-Mar-21
Grey Ghost 06-Mar-21
70lbdraw 06-Mar-21
Will 06-Mar-21
WV Mountaineer 06-Mar-21
Grey Ghost 06-Mar-21
Glunt@work 06-Mar-21
Mule Power 06-Mar-21
Scoot 06-Mar-21
yeager 06-Mar-21
Basil 06-Mar-21
Jeff Holchin 06-Mar-21
DanaC 06-Mar-21
Glunt@work 07-Mar-21
WV Mountaineer 07-Mar-21
Dale06 07-Mar-21
KSflatlander 07-Mar-21
bowhunt 07-Mar-21
KSflatlander 07-Mar-21
elkmtngear 07-Mar-21
Glunt@work 07-Mar-21
KSflatlander 07-Mar-21
Glunt@work 07-Mar-21
Jackaroo 07-Mar-21
SteveB 08-Mar-21
Scoot 08-Mar-21
Rut Nut 08-Mar-21
Glunt@work 08-Mar-21
KSflatlander 08-Mar-21
Scoot 08-Mar-21
midwest 08-Mar-21
bowhunt 08-Mar-21
elkmtngear 08-Mar-21
Matt 08-Mar-21
KsRancher 08-Mar-21
KsRancher 08-Mar-21
Jackaroo 08-Mar-21
txhunter58 09-Mar-21
Bowbender 09-Mar-21
Scoot 09-Mar-21
Bowbender 09-Mar-21
Landshark Launcher 09-Mar-21
elkmtngear 09-Mar-21
Scoot 09-Mar-21
KSflatlander 09-Mar-21
JayZ 09-Mar-21
Matt 09-Mar-21
WV Mountaineer 09-Mar-21
keepemsharp 09-Mar-21
White Falcon 09-Mar-21
MathewsMan 09-Mar-21
Kevin Dill 09-Mar-21
Matt 09-Mar-21
Wild Bill 10-Mar-21
pav 10-Mar-21
Woods Walker 10-Mar-21
Boxcall70 10-Mar-21
JackPine Acres 10-Mar-21
WV Mountaineer 10-Mar-21
Will 10-Mar-21
WV Mountaineer 10-Mar-21
MathewsMan 10-Mar-21
Jackaroo 10-Mar-21
keepemsharp 10-Mar-21
KSflatlander 10-Mar-21
IdyllwildArcher 10-Mar-21
Matt 10-Mar-21
Kevin Dill 11-Mar-21
JayG@work 11-Mar-21
Will 11-Mar-21
Glunt@work 11-Mar-21
midwest 11-Mar-21
JayG@work 11-Mar-21
IdyllwildArcher 11-Mar-21
70lbdraw 11-Mar-21
IdyllwildArcher 11-Mar-21
Brotsky 11-Mar-21
70lbdraw 11-Mar-21
IdyllwildArcher 11-Mar-21
70lbdraw 11-Mar-21
IdyllwildArcher 11-Mar-21
midwest 11-Mar-21
trophyhill 11-Mar-21
Jackaroo 11-Mar-21
WV Mountaineer 11-Mar-21
drycreek 11-Mar-21
No Mercy 11-Mar-21
MarkU 11-Mar-21
IdyllwildArcher 11-Mar-21
pav 11-Mar-21
Glunt@work 11-Mar-21
IdyllwildArcher 11-Mar-21
Glunt@work 11-Mar-21
IdyllwildArcher 11-Mar-21
Scoot 12-Mar-21
Glunt@work 12-Mar-21
Glunt@work 12-Mar-21
trophyhill 12-Mar-21
Boatman71 12-Mar-21
John in MO / KY 12-Mar-21
JayG@work 12-Mar-21
newfi1946moose 12-Mar-21
TREESTANDWOLF 12-Mar-21
Will 12-Mar-21
WV Mountaineer 12-Mar-21
Deertick 12-Mar-21
txhunter58 13-Mar-21
Kevin Dill 13-Mar-21
Bowbender 13-Mar-21
Jackaroo 13-Mar-21
TREESTANDWOLF 13-Mar-21
trophyhill 13-Mar-21
midwest 13-Mar-21
milnrick 13-Mar-21
Jackaroo 13-Mar-21
Kevin Dill 13-Mar-21
midwest 13-Mar-21
txhunter58 13-Mar-21
Jackaroo 13-Mar-21
Jackaroo 13-Mar-21
Jackaroo 13-Mar-21
IdyllwildArcher 13-Mar-21
Glunt@work 14-Mar-21
IdyllwildArcher 14-Mar-21
Jackaroo 14-Mar-21
Matt 14-Mar-21
'Ike' (Phone) 14-Mar-21
Kevin Dill 14-Mar-21
Woods Walker 14-Mar-21
Jackaroo 14-Mar-21
Jackaroo 14-Mar-21
Grey Ghost 14-Mar-21
Grey Ghost 14-Mar-21
Bob H in NH 14-Mar-21
70lbdraw 14-Mar-21
Kevin Dill 14-Mar-21
Jackaroo 14-Mar-21
Grey Ghost 14-Mar-21
AZ~Rich 14-Mar-21
Jackaroo 14-Mar-21
Jackaroo 14-Mar-21
LINK 14-Mar-21
Grey Ghost 14-Mar-21
bluedog 14-Mar-21
Jackaroo 14-Mar-21
Grey Ghost 14-Mar-21
70lbdraw 14-Mar-21
Jackaroo 14-Mar-21
marvelous 14-Mar-21
Woods Walker 14-Mar-21
txhunter58 14-Mar-21
Bowoman 14-Mar-21
Matt 14-Mar-21
Matt 14-Mar-21
Glunt@work 15-Mar-21
IdyllwildArcher 15-Mar-21
Scoot 15-Mar-21
krieger 15-Mar-21
sleepyhunter 15-Mar-21
'Ike' (Phone) 16-Mar-21
DanaC 16-Mar-21
turkeyhunter60 19-Mar-21
DanaC 19-Mar-21
TREESTANDWOLF 19-Mar-21
midwest 19-Mar-21
Ridge Runner 19-Mar-21
TREESTANDWOLF 19-Mar-21
DanaC 22-Mar-21
Moosemania 22-Mar-21
DanaC 22-Mar-21
MQQSE 22-Mar-21
sticksender 22-Mar-21
70lbdraw 22-Mar-21
DanaC 22-Mar-21
MQQSE 22-Mar-21
Brotsky 22-Mar-21
Scoot 22-Mar-21
Brotsky 22-Mar-21
DanaC 22-Mar-21
Woods Walker 22-Mar-21
Rock 24-Mar-21
JL 24-Mar-21
Panhandle Bob 24-Mar-21
wyobullshooter 24-Mar-21
txhunter58 24-Mar-21
DanaC 24-Mar-21
Marty 24-Mar-21
JL 25-Mar-21
TREESTANDWOLF 25-Mar-21
Aspen Ghost 26-Mar-21
BC 26-Mar-21
BSBD 26-Mar-21
kota-man 26-Mar-21
Oryx35 26-Mar-21
sleepyhunter 26-Mar-21
SteveB 29-Mar-21
trophyhill 29-Mar-21
4nolz@work 29-Mar-21
WV Mountaineer 29-Mar-21
Glunt@work 30-Mar-21
Matt 30-Mar-21
TEmbry 30-Mar-21
danrobinson 30-Mar-21
Bou'bound 30-Mar-21
gobbler 30-Mar-21
bb 30-Mar-21
KHunter 30-Mar-21
MarkU 01-Apr-21
Timberking 01-Apr-21
txhunter58 01-Apr-21
sleepyhunter 01-Apr-21
Z Barebow 01-Apr-21
Pat Lefemine 01-Apr-21
Bob H in NH 01-Apr-21
Jaquomo 01-Apr-21
txhunter58 01-Apr-21
MathewsMan 01-Apr-21
Mule Power 02-Apr-21
MarkU 02-Apr-21
Matt 02-Apr-21
Glunt@work 03-Apr-21
Woods Walker 03-Apr-21
Kevin Dill 03-Apr-21
Mule Power 03-Apr-21
WV Mountaineer 03-Apr-21
soccern23ny 03-Apr-21
Glunt@work 03-Apr-21
Basil 04-Apr-21
newfi1946moose 04-Apr-21
70lbdraw 05-Apr-21
Rob Nye 05-Apr-21
Missouribreaks 05-Apr-21
JohnMC 05-Apr-21
spike78 05-Apr-21
spike78 05-Apr-21
JohnMC 05-Apr-21
Chuckster 05-Apr-21
trophyhill 05-Apr-21
spike78 05-Apr-21
spike78 05-Apr-21
Matt 05-Apr-21
Matt 05-Apr-21
JohnMC 05-Apr-21
Kevin Dill 05-Apr-21
spike78 05-Apr-21
JohnMC 05-Apr-21
creed 05-Apr-21
Kevin Dill 05-Apr-21
Matt 05-Apr-21
MathewsMan 05-Apr-21
JohnMC 06-Apr-21
Norseman 06-Apr-21
IdyllwildArcher 06-Apr-21
Thornton 06-Apr-21
Matt 06-Apr-21
trophyhill 07-Apr-21
Jackaroo 07-Apr-21
Rickm 07-Apr-21
Matt 07-Apr-21
Chuckster 07-Apr-21
'Ike' 07-Apr-21
Matt 08-Apr-21
Drnaln 08-Apr-21
Rob Nye 09-Apr-21
JRABQ 09-Apr-21
Chuckster 09-Apr-21
Thornton 12-Apr-21
'Ike' (Phone) 13-Apr-21
KsRancher 13-Apr-21
x-man 13-Apr-21
Ken Taylor 13-Apr-21
TREESTANDWOLF 14-Apr-21
DanaC 14-Apr-21
Southern draw 14-Apr-21
MQQSE 14-Apr-21
Treeline 14-Apr-21
Thornton 14-Apr-21
Matt 15-Apr-21
bowhunt 15-Apr-21
DanaC 15-Apr-21
Bowbender 15-Apr-21
orionsbrother 15-Apr-21
bigswivle 15-Apr-21
DanaC 15-Apr-21
bigswivle 15-Apr-21
Hackbow 15-Apr-21
bigswivle 15-Apr-21
BIGERN 15-Apr-21
BIGERN 15-Apr-21
Hackbow 15-Apr-21
txhunter58 15-Apr-21
WV Mountaineer 15-Apr-21
DanaC 15-Apr-21
Jackaroo 15-Apr-21
DanaC 15-Apr-21
JohnMC 15-Apr-21
Treeline 15-Apr-21
bigswivle 15-Apr-21
DanaC 15-Apr-21
JohnMC 15-Apr-21
spike78 15-Apr-21
Grey Ghost 15-Apr-21
Matt 15-Apr-21
DanaC 15-Apr-21
Ermine 15-Apr-21
Stix 15-Apr-21
Matt 15-Apr-21
Hackbow 15-Apr-21
Hackbow 15-Apr-21
Hackbow 15-Apr-21
Treeline 15-Apr-21
Nomad @ work 15-Apr-21
lamb 15-Apr-21
Matt 15-Apr-21
Hackbow 15-Apr-21
Bob H in NH 15-Apr-21
Hackbow 15-Apr-21
Matt 15-Apr-21
Will 15-Apr-21
Hackbow 15-Apr-21
Matt 15-Apr-21
trophyhill 15-Apr-21
Treeline 15-Apr-21
Matt 15-Apr-21
bigswivle 15-Apr-21
Treeline 15-Apr-21
Bowbender 15-Apr-21
KsRancher 15-Apr-21
RK 15-Apr-21
drycreek 15-Apr-21
Matt 15-Apr-21
Hackbow 15-Apr-21
'Ike' (Phone) 15-Apr-21
MQQSE 15-Apr-21
Bowbender 16-Apr-21
milnrick 16-Apr-21
Grey Ghost 16-Apr-21
orionsbrother 16-Apr-21
Grey Ghost 16-Apr-21
midwest 16-Apr-21
Hackbow 16-Apr-21
Hackbow 16-Apr-21
Hackbow 16-Apr-21
Hackbow 16-Apr-21
orionsbrother 16-Apr-21
txhunter58 16-Apr-21
txhunter58 16-Apr-21
bigswivle 16-Apr-21
Jackaroo 16-Apr-21
txhunter58 16-Apr-21
Grey Ghost 16-Apr-21
txhunter58 16-Apr-21
Hackbow 16-Apr-21
orionsbrother 16-Apr-21
WV Mountaineer 16-Apr-21
orionsbrother 16-Apr-21
Brotsky 16-Apr-21
Blood 16-Apr-21
Grey Ghost 16-Apr-21
midwest 16-Apr-21
BowSniper 16-Apr-21
orionsbrother 16-Apr-21
3rd Degree 16-Apr-21
Treeline 16-Apr-21
Elkslaya 16-Apr-21
RK 16-Apr-21
spike78 16-Apr-21
Treeline 17-Apr-21
Treeline 17-Apr-21
WV Mountaineer 17-Apr-21
Grey Ghost 17-Apr-21
Kevin Dill 17-Apr-21
woodguy65 17-Apr-21
orionsbrother 17-Apr-21
woodguy65 17-Apr-21
orionsbrother 17-Apr-21
wyobullshooter 17-Apr-21
WV Mountaineer 17-Apr-21
BOWNBIRDHNTR 17-Apr-21
midwest 17-Apr-21
woodguy65 17-Apr-21
orionsbrother 17-Apr-21
Rupe 17-Apr-21
TREESTANDWOLF 17-Apr-21
Jackaroo 17-Apr-21
Jackaroo 17-Apr-21
70lbdraw 18-Apr-21
Jackaroo 18-Apr-21
gobbler 18-Apr-21
bigswivle 18-Apr-21
Lawdy 18-Apr-21
midwest 18-Apr-21
RK 18-Apr-21
orionsbrother 18-Apr-21
JohnMC 18-Apr-21
RK 18-Apr-21
adobe 18-Apr-21
Bowbender 19-Apr-21
Grey Ghost 19-Apr-21
Will 22-Apr-21
3rd Degree 22-Apr-21
KSflatlander 22-Apr-21
drycreek 22-Apr-21
midwest 22-Apr-21
bowhunt 22-Apr-21
Matt 22-Apr-21
trophyhill 22-Apr-21
KSflatlander 22-Apr-21
Elkslaya 22-Apr-21
spike78 22-Apr-21
Chief 419 22-Apr-21
Rgiesey 22-Apr-21
JohnMC 22-Apr-21
KSflatlander 22-Apr-21
Jackaroo 22-Apr-21
KSflatlander 22-Apr-21
Elkslaya 22-Apr-21
RK 22-Apr-21
KSflatlander 22-Apr-21
Matt 22-Apr-21
Jackaroo 22-Apr-21
Elkslaya 22-Apr-21
KSflatlander 22-Apr-21
spike78 23-Apr-21
Will 23-Apr-21
MarkU 23-Apr-21
Jackaroo 23-Apr-21
Jackaroo 23-Apr-21
KSflatlander 23-Apr-21
bigswivle 23-Apr-21
bigswivle 23-Apr-21
RK 23-Apr-21
Jackaroo 23-Apr-21
Jackaroo 23-Apr-21
Will 23-Apr-21
KSflatlander 23-Apr-21
Jackaroo 23-Apr-21
KSflatlander 23-Apr-21
Hackbow 23-Apr-21
KSflatlander 23-Apr-21
70lbdraw 23-Apr-21
KSflatlander 23-Apr-21
Hackbow 23-Apr-21
IdyllwildArcher 23-Apr-21
KSflatlander 23-Apr-21
Hackbow 23-Apr-21
KSflatlander 23-Apr-21
70lbdraw 23-Apr-21
KSflatlander 23-Apr-21
txhunter58 23-Apr-21
Matt 23-Apr-21
Rickm 23-Apr-21
Dino 24-Apr-21
trophyhill 24-Apr-21
Matt 24-Apr-21
spike78 24-Apr-21
RK 24-Apr-21
Kevin Dill 24-Apr-21
Matt 24-Apr-21
trophyhill 24-Apr-21
RK 24-Apr-21
Dino 24-Apr-21
RK 24-Apr-21
midwest 26-Apr-21
WV Mountaineer 27-Apr-21
DanaC 27-Apr-21
RMhunter 27-Apr-21
Kingntuff 27-Apr-21
Hackbow 28-Apr-21
70lbdraw 28-Apr-21
DanaC 28-Apr-21
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From: Shuteye
08-Feb-21

Shuteye's Link
Just so you feel better about getting your Covid shot. MAKE SURE YOU CLICK ON THE LINK.

From: JohnMC
08-Feb-21
I got to admit I am not much better with needles.

From: ahunter76
08-Feb-21
Being an old Navy Corpsman (Medic) of 5 years with 2 of them with a Marine line Company, I'm no stranger to getting & giving shots (the old fashioned way 59 thru 63). I've definatley seen about every reaction you can think of.. Yes, I've had one & 2nd soon. Oh, in training I had to give myself a shot in the thigh. THAT was a day to remember. The thought is much worse than the shot..

From: PTArcher
08-Feb-21
Had the first. Second scheduled this Sat.

From: BTM
08-Feb-21
Had second Moderna jab five days ago. Side effects involved some fatigue, but nothing bad.

From: Shuteye
08-Feb-21
I am a diabetic since age 30 and am now 78. I take four shots a day.

From: LKH
08-Feb-21
Sore arm. About the same as a flu shot. Understand my second one will likely be worse but I don't give a damn. Better that than 30 days on a ventilator.

From: Boxcall70
08-Feb-21
Got mine today at Kroger's,had to get some deli chicken thighs and tater salad and coors banquet to ease the pain.go for the second shot march 8th.

From: paul@thefort
08-Feb-21
shot on Feb 2. I have had more shot "pain" from a mosquito. NO after affects.

From: Rupe
08-Feb-21
Nope!

From: Brian M.
08-Feb-21
First one this past Sat. Pfizer. Maybe a very slight headache and a tiny bruise at site. Next on Feb 27.

From: obx
08-Feb-21
Get my second Moderna February 18

From: Elk369
08-Feb-21
Pfizer got both, just sore arm on both.

From: greg simon
08-Feb-21
I’ve had both Moderna shots. Both made my shoulder very sore and the second caused 24 hours of moderate fatigue and body aches.

From: tundrajumper
09-Feb-21
Wife and I will get our 2nd shot on the 20th, no problem with the 1st.

From: Scrappy
09-Feb-21

Scrappy's embedded Photo
Scrappy's embedded Photo
Had the Rona in December, not getting the shot.

09-Feb-21
Same here scrappy.

From: Steve H.
09-Feb-21
The possessive word "your" implies I have one or am getting one, neither situation is the case.

From: Mule Power
09-Feb-21
Had it in December. I think the main goal of the pharmaceutical companies was to throw together a recipe as fast as possible to cash in. I think I’ll give it some time to work the bugs out. I’ve never been one to a buy a vehicle with a “new and improved” motor. And I’ve always smiled when I saw people complain for two years before they modified the design. If I was high risk I might feel differently.

09-Feb-21
Get my second one on Thursday. TMBB

From: Will
09-Feb-21
Nope, cant wait to though. Helped my folks get signed up for their first one (which they got last Sunday) and my wife is all done with both and several weeks out.

I'm looking forward to getting mine. As soon as my turn is up, ill be going in.

From: Bowboy
09-Feb-21
Get my first one today!

From: Bowbender
09-Feb-21
"I think the main goal of the pharmaceutical companies was to throw together a recipe as fast as possible to cash in."

Government $$ are da best. Anyhow.... I worked with big pharma for awhile, developing assembly solutions for drug delivery systems. Time to delivery for new drugs/vaccines is typically in the 5-10 year range. This was done in under a year. My understanding (and please someone correct me if I'm wrong) is that instead of a normal "killed" virus vaccine, a genetically modified virus was used to develope the vaccine. The reason being, it's cheaper and faster. Well, in the machine/automation world there is an axiom whereby there are three outcomes available. Good, fast and cheap. Of those three, you can have two. Hence, if it's fast and cheap, guesss what it ain't.

There are has been no long term study as to the efficacy (which we have seen dropping), no long term study on side effects.... No thanks. I'll wait until it's been proven 45-50% effective like other flu vaccines and then pass on it as well.

From: Nomad @ work
09-Feb-21
Not a chance.......Nope!

From: Mule Power
09-Feb-21
If you had the Covid shot between January 2021 and June 2022 you may be entitled to compensation. Lol

From: DanaC
09-Feb-21
I'm not Phase 1, so, not yet. ASAP, tho'.

From: yooper89
09-Feb-21
Got the second dose on Friday. No side effects aside from a minor case of chills. A lot of my coworkers got pretty sick for a night so I guess I got lucky. Couldn’t even feel the microchip go through my pulmonary system

From: Whocares
09-Feb-21
That video was pretty funny, Shuteye! Haven't had mine yet. Guess I should call and find out. Thought the clinic would call. Guess not. Gotta watch the video again. Made me lol!

From: Norseman
09-Feb-21
Ha!

From: KHNC
09-Feb-21
No. I went ahead and just got the virus last summer. I went all in. Wasnt that bad.

From: NoWiser
09-Feb-21
Since I was a kid, I've always hated needles. A few years ago some friends held a blood drive in memory of their son, who passed away and needed many blood products during his battle. I donated for him and have donated every 2-3 months since. My fear of needles has vanished.

My wife finished her 2nd round a couple weeks ago. I've enjoyed the better 5G reception for my cell phone. I'll be towards the back of the vaccination line, but you'd better believe I'll get the shot as soon as I can. I'm holding out hope that maybe we'll be allowed to go to Canada fishing late this summer with record of a vaccination.

From: 3rd Degree
09-Feb-21
Not doin' it, and you can't make me! Said like a 5 year old, including the foot stomp.

Won't be surprised if they start trying to force us to take it. No problem with anyone that wants one. Never had a flu shot, never needed one. Don't need this one. Like Bowbender said, not nearly enough testing.

From: elkmtngear
09-Feb-21
I always thought a "vaccine", was something that actually prevented you from getting a specific disease...funny how the whole World is being re-defined, with each passing day...

From: Boatman71
09-Feb-21
Not available in my area yet

From: Mule Power
09-Feb-21
3rd Degree they have their way of making things mandatory without forcing you to do anything. You don’t have to get the vaccine as long as you never need to fly on an airline again. Pretty soon they’ll work their way to no firearms or ammo for non vaccinated citizens. But of course that’s our choice.

From: Bowfreak
09-Feb-21
Jeff,

Its all to make sure everyone wears a mask for the rest of their life. You've been vaccinate, but can spread the disease. Wear your mask like a good soldier.

From: BOWNBIRDHNTR
09-Feb-21
I'm with Mule Power and Bowbender.

From: c5ken
09-Feb-21
Yep, Got my 2nd shot yesterday. No problems so far...

09-Feb-21
The ongoing natural spread of the initial viral strain has already taken an enormous toll on the economy, not even referencing the >400,000 deaths in the US alone. No one has yet had the nerve to calculate the cost of hospitalizations and its downstream effect on your health insurance costs ( most insurers are "for profit" ). That said, an ongoing source of fresh bodies to infect also allows the virus more opportunity to mutate and therefore continue to wreak havoc and to just keep on going. It might even be possible that given enough time that mutation might start the whole cycle over again and THEN where will we be? While I appreciate the reservations posted here as to taking the vaccine at this point, I would ask that people read the reasons for doing so as PERSONAL and not factual. This IS a PUBLIC health crisis and IF YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. For those not willing to take the vaccine, please HELP to slow the spread by social distancing and mask wearing. For those who are going to take it, recognize that it is believed to not only significantly reduce getting the viral infection, reducing the risk of getting a severe response to the virus, and reduces conveying the virus to others. Please do not focus on ambiguities of one report or another as this is a process in evolution and we are learning as we go. . For those about to get vaccine dose #2, you may experience 24-48 hours of not feeling well ( lethargy and possibly arthralgias) but that represents your body REPSONDING to the immunologic challenge and is a GOOD THING and a small price to pay.

Dr. SG

From: bowpackerRob
09-Feb-21
My wife and I had both shots from Moderna, no problem here. Light achiness on day after second dose but no major problem

From: Glunt@work
09-Feb-21
"The ongoing natural spread of the initial viral strain has already taken an enormous toll on the economy,..."

No, Government mandates did that. The virus alone would have affected the economy, but not like this. We could have skipped ruining the economy, some places did. Your take on the vaccine makes sense to me.

From: dm/wolfskin
09-Feb-21
NO NO NO NO

From: Bowfreak
09-Feb-21
Spot on Glunt.

From: Will
09-Feb-21
Dr Sg -100% on that wagon. Agree 100%.

From: Rob Nye
09-Feb-21
Canada’s idiot leader Trudumb has botched the vaccine rollout so badly Canadians will be lucky if they all get it by 2022. That dumbass couldnt manage a kiddie ride in a mall let alone a pandemic.

From: Bowboy
09-Feb-21
I know a guy that has received both shots and still got Covid.

From: Matt
09-Feb-21
"I know a guy that has received both shots and still got Covid."

Did he suffer from a serious form of the disease or die from it? If so, he would be in the 5-6%. If not, the vaccine may have worked just as designed.

From: Jackaroo
09-Feb-21
I have not seen 1 piece of evidence that any of the vaccines stop transmission of Covid. Everything I have read shows it only lessens the severity of the infection. That’s why the CDC will keep social distancing and mask requirements in place into 2022.

From: drmike
09-Feb-21
I second the message from Dr. SG.

From: BIGHORN
09-Feb-21
Wife and I had both of our shots. Won't stop you from getting the virus, just lessens the symptoms.

From: billlmo
09-Feb-21
no

From: Ursman
09-Feb-21
Both Maderna shots done. Slight soreness in my arm at the injection sight. My wife spent the next day in bed due to aches in her joints and weakness and nausea. Internet info indicates it’s a normal reaction in some people.

From: Stringwacker
09-Feb-21
1st shot of Moderna went well though I had a very sore arm and a small lump at the injection site for about a week. Second shot is scheduled for the 18th.

From: kakiatkids
09-Feb-21
Received my 2nd dose yesterday morning. Fatigue started around 8:00 and had full blown shivers starting around 11:00 which lasted until 2:00 AM. Felt crappy all day (cold, body aches) today..starting to feel better now 2:15 PM.

From: samman
09-Feb-21
Bowbender & Mule Power nailed my opinion of getting a shot. I used to get the flu shot. Every year I got the flu. Said screw it in 1993, no more flu shots. Haven't had the flu since. Knock on wood (head).

From: Bob H in NH
09-Feb-21
The vaccine IS a vaccine and does prevent you catching the disease, in MOST. However the variable is you and your immune system. The vaccine (as all do) "trick" your immune system into fighting and building antibodies. That both takes time and will vary in each person, just like every other vaccine.

As with all other viruses, you can be immune AND pass it along. Immunity doesn't mean it won't get into your body, it means when it does, your body knows how to kill it. While it's killing it, it may still be in your respiratory system until killed, so yes you can spread it by breathing, sneezing, talking. You can also catch it with reduced symptoms, again depending on your immune system. You aren't immune right when they stick the needle in, your body needs to do some work first. For most they will be immune, others, not so much and others their body may do nothing with it.

Just like every other vaccine.

From: Deertick
09-Feb-21
I felt bad about getting it since I'm not in a high risk group -- but I got it as a physician. Moderna variety in my case. I do plan on ditching the mask in 2 days, when I'll be 2 weeks out of my second shot. The likelihood of meaningful infection at that point is so ridiculously low, even in my profession, that I will move on.

One thing I'm fascinated with is that people who are concerned about vaccine safety think that's an original thought. Trust me -- the more you know about drugs and vaccines (and I've spent a lot of time learning such things) you know them as powerful weapons, not unlike firearms. Do i use them? You bet! Do I respect them? More than you'll know!

The potential adverse effects are something that is concerning, for sure, especially when you are talking about giving something to a healthy population. That's true with ALL vaccines. That's why vaccine safety is something that can't be ignored.

That said, I can't find any evidence that it is ignored. On the contrary, in the professional journals I see abundant evidence that vaccine safety is taken very seriously. I wouldn't have taken the shot if I hadn't read them and reassured myself -- so I won't go telling anyone else to just "trust me". But I remain deeply impressed with these vaccines.

From: Ermine
09-Feb-21
I won’t get it. Everyone at work got it but I didn’t. I don’t get the flu shot either. I’m young and healthy. I’ll take the 99% chance that I survive covid.

From: elkmtngear
09-Feb-21
"I’m young and healthy. I’ll take the 99% chance that I survive covid".

X2...and I'm "old and healthy" ;^)

From: Will
09-Feb-21
1.) There is no research yet on whether the two currently available Vax's in the US stop transmission... None to say it does NOT either. No one knows for sure - hence the SMART choice of staying cautious after the shot.

2.) Some people may still get sick shortly after getting the shot, especially shot 1. There has not been time for the body to build up antibodies to gain a level of protection. Given the time from infection to symptoms, it's possible someone could be infected 4-6 days before shot 1 and still get it... and given efficacy after only 1 shot (Pfizer/moderna) is 50-60% as I recall), even during the period between shots you could get it. You could also be in the 5% of folks who dont respond as well and end up getting some degree of illness. It's not impossible, but saying a few examples of folks getting sick around or after vaccination suggest it doesnt work is not a reasonable expectation. Oh, and you are not getting full benefits of the vax until about 2-3 weeks after the second shot... Soooo... Quit a while there where you need to recognize your are not getting the full protection a given vax can give you.

3.) North of 90% of people (94-95%) who get the two available in the US dont develop any symptoms if exposed. No one can totally say that means they are not infectious (see 1 above). People who get the vaccine appear to not get seriously ill IF they fall in the 5% who may still become symptomatic if exposed. In other words - the two currently available work frigging great.

4.) Feeling icky a day or so after a vaccine is your body doing what your body naturally does. With vaccination, it does that without you potentially experiencing significant consequences from natural infection.

From: Bowfreak
09-Feb-21
Deertick,

You likely will see little pushback ditching your mask in WY. What do you think will happen to those who choose to do the same in the liberal strongholds in the US? They will be framed as being worse than the virus itself. Heck....I am in KY and our Governor is running a close race with the most liberal Govs on virus protocol. Eventually the majority of people here will just ignore him and go on with life. I just hope that everyone understands that the left is going to frame anyone not wearing a mask as a domestic terrorist. Without openly opposing our local governments we won't be maskless for a long time.

I am ok with people not taking the vaccine, but once everyone has the opportunity to have the vaccination I'm done masking. I am not sold on their effectiveness, but I will out of respect for my neighbor wear them. There will be plenty who won't take the vaccination and will be fine without a mask and be ok with any risk from their choice, but there will be plenty of people who choose not to take the vaccination and expect everyone else to continue to social distance and wear masks just to protect them. The thought of personal responsibility to these types is taboo.

From: Mule Power
09-Feb-21
88.625% of all statistics are fabricated to support online posts. Lol

The % of people I personally know who got sick after being vaccinated is high. From aches and pains to 3 day pounding migraines to outright flu symptoms.

Until 2 years ago I hadn’t had a flu shot in decades. Shortly after the shot I had the worst case of flu in my life.

From: Gman
09-Feb-21
I worked in Pharma for about 14 years. It's an industry that is routinely bashed for big profits and malfeasance. The profits from any one drug can be quite high, but you need to remember that these most cover the losses from the other failures. What rarely gets reported is that most drugs take on average 10-15 years to reach approval stage from the "aha moment!" of testing something in a Petri dish. Also only 1 in 10,000 "aha's!" actually make it through approval.

So to use the car analogy that has been thrown about here, imaging if only 1 in every 10,000 designs for a new ford car or truck actually made it to the market. And those failures occur everywhere from the designers drawing CAD, initial handmade prototype vehicles, and after full manufacturing lines for that vehicle have been constructed.

No, I am not totally defending Pharma, just providing some perspective. There is no defense for companies that jack up prices randomly on a moments notice. It's also ridiculous in my opinion for things like insulin to have such huge costs as well and the science behind making it is long beyond patent life expiration.

There is a common misconception about vaccines that they PREVENT disease. That is not completely true across the board. In most cases, the goal of a vaccine is to PREVENT you from DYING from said disease. The vaccine primes your body to recognize an antigen (foreign substance) by creating circulating antibodies to activate your immune system when antibodies bind to the foreign invader.

Vaccines are not like cars that can be modulated willy nilly and tossed out into the public. Major changes to vaccines will required Ph1 - Ph3 trials which are expensive and costly. So if you are waiting for the vaccine to get "tweaked" well, you'll be waiting for a new design which will undergo new trials which will have no more experience when it gets approved by the FDA.

Lastly, for those that aren't interested in the vaccine. Have you ever been on a ventilator? I've been on one twice for cardiac surgeries. They aren't much fun. What's worse than having a tube down your throat preventing you from speaking and causing irritation when they bring you out of the coma (for me it was just sedation from surgery) is the eventual removal of the catheter. Oh yes, realize they put you in a coma when you get intubated to prevent you from ripping the tube out and taking your vocal cords out with it and give your body time to heal and shut down other major functions (digestive, urinary, etc.). So in order to keep your systems running they insert a catheter to drain your urine. Now over time, you can develop adhesions to the tubing especially for the durations that you could be looking at with COVID. The result is that should you be lucky enough to survive and get unintubaned, they'll pull the catheter out....slowly, very slowly to assure that any adhesions don't rip out your ureter with it.

Just a few things to think on. Stay safe out there.

From: elkmtngear
09-Feb-21
"The vaccine primes your body to recognize an antigen (foreign substance) by creating circulating antibodies to activate your immune system when antibodies bind to the foreign invader".

This is the same thing that happens when you get Covid, but I'm willing to bet good money, you'll get more complete, and specific immune response by catching Covid, than you will by getting these vaccines.

Hell, I'm willing to bet my life on it ;^)

From: White Falcon
09-Feb-21
WE got ours .

From: Mnhunter1980
09-Feb-21
No thanks, my body my choice

From: Matt
09-Feb-21
"This is the same thing that happens when you get Covid, but I'm willing to bet good money, you'll get more complete, and specific immune response by catching Covid, than you will by getting these vaccines."

Do you have study data to support that? I've seen it supposed that the antibody response from the vaccine may last longer than getting the disease based on the rate of decline they have measured in people who had the disease. And you don't have to risk the disease to get that immunity.

One thing a lot of folks seem to overlook is that the disease we know today may not be the one we are faced with in the future. Look at the South African, UK, or Brazilian variants as mutations that have occurred over time and which have made the disease more more transmissable. One of the big benefits to acheiving herd immunity sooner than later is it reduces the disease's ability to mutate into something that is possibly more transmissable, virulent, or difficult to treat.

From: Hackbow
09-Feb-21
Never had a flu shot.

Never took a daily drug except antibiotics prescribed by idiot physicians who were lining their pockets with cash while all I had was acute bronchitis (viral).

Won't submit to the Chicom Flu indoctrination inoculation.

From: elkmtngear
09-Feb-21
"One of the big benefits to acheiving herd immunity sooner than later is it reduces the disease's ability to mutate into something that is possibly more transmissable, virulent, or difficult to treat".

Ahhh, since we have the vaccine, NOW you are advocating "herd immunity"... funny how the leftist narrative has changed, lol !

So...by your logic, we should have ditched all the "Shelter in Place" mandates a year ago (for the healthy population)...and we wouldn't be in this boat right now. Sounds reasonable to me, for a disease with a 99 percent survival rate.

From: Hackbow
09-Feb-21
elkmtngear nailed it. All the Fauci fanboys & girls told us how stupid herd immunity was but now that they've allowed it MORE TIME to mutate under their tyrannical "slow the spread" lunacy, herd immunity is back in vogue. How coincidental it is happening as a new prez is seated.

From: NoWiser
09-Feb-21
A 99% survival rate (Covid) with known long-term health problems among survivors is much worse than a 100% survival rate (vaccine) with no known long-term side effects.

Right from the start the experts said that herd immunity through a vaccine was the way out of this. Absolutely nothing has changed.

From: Hackbow
09-Feb-21
"...a 100% survival rate (vaccine) with no known long-term side effects."

So you actually KNOW that everyone who takes the Chicom Flu indoctrination inoculation are going to survive and they won't have ANY long-term side effects? Please explain, NoWiser, what model of crystal ball you're using. Can we order it from Amazon?

From: Lawdy
09-Feb-21
Had the second shot a while back and other than the fact that both my testicles dropped about six inches, I am fine.

From: NoWiser
09-Feb-21
We can only work with the data we have. That’s why I said “known.” Speculation is worthless.

From: cnelk
09-Feb-21
I cant believe there are so many First Responders on Bowsite... eligible to get the vaccine

Oh wait.... its 'Oldsite'

From: bigswivle
09-Feb-21
Y’all can have mine. I’ll take my chances with 20$ of ivomec

From: Hackbow
09-Feb-21
The fear must be debilitating to let politicians make decisions for oneself to possibly gain a *possible*, <1% greater chance of survival and a *possible* decrease in long-term side effects. You are correct that speculation is worthless and this rushed vaccine's efficacy is all speculation at this point.

But the sheeple will sleep better, so there's that.

From: bigswivle
09-Feb-21
Had the second shot a while back and other than the fact that both my testicles dropped about six inches, I am fine.

Just spit my beer up!!!! Lmao

From: NoWiser
09-Feb-21
We can only work with the data we have. That’s why I said “known.” Speculation is worthless.

From: Buffalo1
09-Feb-21
My wife & I had first shot today (noon)- Pfizer. Second shot 3/3. No after effects so far.

09-Feb-21
Yah, well this sheeple is 75+ and dealing with diabetes and cancer so any rude attempts at justifying why you do not just seems a bit over the edge. A good friend of mine just lost his 42-year old son to it...spouse and two pre-teens left without a dad. Have been unable to get it here and our county emergency manager just figured out last week that their portal was being hijacked by 65+ers from a nearby large city. Took them a week and some nasty calls from guys like me! Have appointments on the 16th...finally.

From: Mnhunter1980
09-Feb-21
How will we reach herd immunity without vaccinating children?

From: Mnhunter1980
09-Feb-21
The math I did says that every American above the age of 16 will need to be vaccinated in order to reach her immunity. What am I missing? Do they really think we will all volunteer for the vaccine?

From: Mule Power
09-Feb-21
So the pros who say that it takes years to develop, test, and get approval for the vaccine are also saying that the one that zipped through the system in barely enough time to see what the short term affects are let alone the long ones is perfectly safe. And that’s not speculation folks.

Can you pharmaceutical folks also tell me what the vaccine means to those of us who have had the virus? Is it necessary? Will it do anything that our body hasn’t already done on it’s own from beating the bug? If one of the answers is “You only had one strain so aren’t necessarily immune to others” then I’d also ask if the instavac is protecting people from multiple strains?

09-Feb-21
You will not so they will have to be on the agenda when the vaccine becomes available. Smallpox, polio, and others we got as kids in the late '40s and early '50s helped 99% of anyone posting here!

From: elkmtngear
09-Feb-21
"Smallpox, polio, and others we got as kids in the late '40s and early '50s helped 99% of anyone posting here"!

Yeah...except, those diseases weren't manufactured in a Wuhan BioLab. It's a little trickier, to make a vaccine that actually works...under these conditions. Time will tell...

09-Feb-21
Elk...I certainly agree.

From: Mnhunter1980
09-Feb-21
My kids may receive the vaccine for covid in the future but they will not be part of any test when it is offered the first round.

I am amazed how many people disregard the unknown long term effects from this unapproved vaccine. I know 2 people that were hospitalized within 48 hours of receiving the second dose of phizer. I watched my wife’s reaction after the second dose of phizer...... no thanks. I pray I don’t get covid, but if I do I feel pretty good about the 98.7% chance I will make it.

From: Hackbow
09-Feb-21
newfi - I don't need to JUSTIFY my reasons for not getting a vaccination to you, or anyone else. I have not once told another person not to get it. My dad chose to get it and I support his decision to do so because it is HIS decision. My wife has said she won't get it and will retire rather than be forced by an employer if it comes to that - her decision and I support it. I have many friends who are getting it and many who are not. All decisions to do so are theirs to make - not mine and not yours.

The only rude people in this are you chicken littles wanting everyone to be forced to do something against their will due to your fear. Those of us who don't submit to your will are just fighting back. The harder you push, the harder we'll push back.

And since the less than 1% *possible* gain in survivability is so valuable to you, and you get the vaccine, and you are protected, why the hell do you care if I get it and die? You've ostensibly covered your ass so what I do shouldn't matter at all.

Sorry about your friend's family. Death is heartbreaking. When it is a young person it is tragic. A friend of mine's wife just died at 43 from a disease unrelated to the Chicom flu. Like MANY sick people in the last year, she had experienced a reduction in her medical services and care due to the insane, tyrannical rules that have been shoved down our throats.

From: Slate
09-Feb-21
Had both of mine. Could careless about the link

From: drycreek
09-Feb-21
Like Scrappy, I had the kung-flu in December, just in time for Christmas. Ain’t made up my mind yet whether or not to take the shots, but at this point I lean toward not. My gut tells me that next year we’ll have a new one that this vaccine won’t touch. I also don’t believe the bat was let out of the bag accidentally.

09-Feb-21
Dec 16 and Jan 6th - Pfizer.

Basically no side effects.

I would encourage everyone to get it. Millions of doses have been given and the safety profile is about as good as could be expected - you could give a million people a shot of water in their arm and someone's gonna croak from it.

And just death rates are not all that should be looked at - millions of people who get it and survive are having major organ damage to their lungs, hearts, livers, kidneys, and brains.

From: Matt
09-Feb-21
"Ahhh, since we have the vaccine, NOW you are advocating "herd immunity"... funny how the leftist narrative has changed, lol !"

You do realize that vaccination is a means of attaining herd immunity? Who am I kidding, of course you don't - because you don't seem to understand much of anything as it pertains to this whole situation.

From: Two Feathers
09-Feb-21
Haven't gotten the vaccine and not planning on getting it.

From: elkmtngear
09-Feb-21

elkmtngear's Link
Just an aside...deaths from people that received the vaccine, were up to 271 as of a week ago...this is all public data that can be easily researched (see link).

Not sure if any other vaccines have ever had those kind of numbers. Food for thought...

From: NoWiser
09-Feb-21
Correlation does not imply causation.

From: AZBUGLER
09-Feb-21
Absolutely! Can’t wait for this thing to be over and glad to do my part.

From: NoWiser
09-Feb-21
Correlation does not imply causation.

From: Cobie33
09-Feb-21
It was mentioned in this thread somewhere by a Dr. that by getting the vaccine it will help stop the mutation of virus. Everything I have read lately stated that the vaccine doesn’t keep a person from getting the virus but just lessens the effects when you do. So if people are still getting it with the vaccine how does that lessen the chances of mutation? I don’t understand.

I also just read tonight on MSM that the CDC said that children who had the flu shot and got the virus had lessened effects than those that did not. Found that interesting.

I had it last month and it wasn’t too rough for me. I won’t be getting the shot.

From: TEmbry
09-Feb-21
Recent studies show that over 50 people in America died within a week of changing their tires this year. Take it for what it’s worth but I doubt I’ll be changing tires anytime soon until they study this more.

As pointed out correlation and causation aren’t the same thing but statistics are hard to grasp. It’s humorous to read people stating they won’t tell people to not get the shot, then continue on by ridiculing those who choose to do so lol.

From: Woods Walker
09-Feb-21
400,000 deaths from covid? THAT is pure BS. They count as a "covid death" ANYONE who's died that has tested positive for covid when they died. They could have been hit by a truck or had a massive coronary.

The data is inaccurate and cooked. Take a look........

From: Matt
09-Feb-21
"Just an aside...deaths from people that received the vaccine, were up to 271 as of a week ago...this is all public data that can be easily researched (see link). Not sure if any other vaccines have ever had those kind of numbers. Food for thought..."

Of the ~13MM who had received the vaccine as of Feb. 1, the 271 deaths represents 0.0021%. It is telling that many of you will risk the ~1.5% death rate to avoid the 0.0021% rate that, at a maximum, could currently be attributed to the vaccine. The consistency of logic is impressive.

We also need to keep in mind that the first to be vaccinated were the elderly who are the most susceptible to both - and also the closest age class to death from other causes. It may even be that the 0.0021% doesn't differ that much from the expected death rate for that age group?

From: Mild Bill
09-Feb-21
I'll use a crossbow before I get the Covid vaccine.

From: Mnhunter1980
09-Feb-21
Tembry the difference is I am in control of how and where I change the tire. Vs. letting someone inject me with something that is new and un approved. I have a pretty good idea what happens when a tire blows up on you or a car falls on you but I have no clue what happens after I’m injected with a rushed vaccine for a virus that some have to be tested to even know they have. I believe the numbers are not what the experts say they are. For months people were told to stay home unless they can’t breathe. Don’t wear a mask it won’t help.... can you understand why some aren’t jumping in line ? To each there own but I don’t see enough people taking this willingly to reach herd immunity. My wife and sister both are vaccinated, my parents will be when there number is called, but I choose not to.

From: Matt
09-Feb-21

Matt's Link
"It was mentioned in this thread somewhere by a Dr. that by getting the vaccine it will help stop the mutation of virus. Everything I have read lately stated that the vaccine doesn’t keep a person from getting the virus but just lessens the effects when you do. So if people are still getting it with the vaccine how does that lessen the chances of mutation?"

It hasn't been determined through clinical trial as to the degree of protection against being infected conferred by the vaccine. That doesn't mean there isn't a reduction, just that it hasn't been studied. Don't confuse that with meaning there is no benefit.

There is a small sample from Israel (way ahead of most of the world in vaccination, not peer reviewed) that show significant benefit in reducing infections:

"Maccabi Health Services, one of Israel’s four health maintenance organizations (HMOs), tracked 163,000 Israelis who had received both of the two required doses of the Pfizer vaccine; only 31 of those people tested positive for Covid-19, compared to an unvaccinated sample in which about 6,500 did."

The Pfizer vaccine is one of 2 currently available in the US.

And that is how.

From: Duke
09-Feb-21
No thanks. Never believed in vaccines and no plan to start. Just my medical plan.

From: TEmbry
09-Feb-21
My quip about the tires is pointing out that the tires may have not even been the cause of death. We are vaccinating our elderly and most at risk population and then floored when people in said group pass away. I’m not discrediting the fact that people can have severe reactions to vaccines. Just that the numbers in this case overwhelmingly point to the opposite.

You can’t claim Covid deaths are overinflated while at the same time believing post vaccination deaths are 100% caused by vaccination.

I believe everyone should have the right to choose whether to get the vaccine or not. I just grow tired of people who don’t have a background in medicine or statistics preaching to others and ridiculing them on a topic they aren’t even well versed to understand. Get the vaccine or don’t, I support that decision. I just have a hard time reading the non stop justification of these decisions. I’ve had covid, I’m not worried about getting it again. I’m not naive enough to claim that others shouldn’t be worried though. I’m going to get the shot as well. Cynically I think society is heading a direction that it’ll be challenging to travel without it, and the safety data doesn’t have me worried one bit about the vaccine.

From: casper
10-Feb-21
Congrats to all who have had the vaccine, you have now altered your DNA and t cell activity. Good luck with your auto immune problems in the near future.

From: TEmbry
10-Feb-21
Are you implying the mRNA vaccine enters your cells nucleus or admitting a lack of microbiology knowledge?

This is the misinformation that’s so hard to stomach, it’s no different than how the media handled the past year of what was a riot vs a protest.

From: Matt
10-Feb-21

Matt's Link
"Congrats to all who have had the vaccine, you have now altered your DNA and t cell activity. Good luck with your auto immune problems in the near future."

Congratulations for proving all you know about COVID was learned on Facebook.

From: Glunt@work
10-Feb-21
I'm pro-choice on the vaccine.

Very likely air travel will require the vaccine. Our new Sec. of Transportation is exploring it at the moment. There will be people who wonder what risk an unvaccinated passenger with a mask on would pose to a plane-load of passengers who are vaccinated.

From: Mule Power
10-Feb-21
If a vaccine doesn’t prevent you from contracting a virus but just lessens the severity of symptoms and possibly keeping it from killing you... then you are still a carrier. So how can this achieve herd immunity?

It’s interesting to me that people with loads of data to support the “facts” talk about facts that contradict each other.

I don’t really need a list of data. I’ve been around the sun 56 times and I have pretty good instincts. Instincts are a fact. They ate what keeps game animals alive and also what enables me to sniff them out and kill a few each year.

So I’m with drycreek.... I had it the week of Christmas. So I’m feeling confident that I am safe for several months. And I believe there will be a new and greatly improved version next year. And I don’t want to take two versions of it.

And I also don’t believe they let the bat out of the bag by accident. Ozzy Osbourne chewed on an un refrigerated bat and he’s fine. The speech impediment is from ingesting other items. Mostly organic too.

From: Kevin Dill
10-Feb-21
I'm 100% pro-choice on the vaccine. Coming from a medical science education and background, I believe in vaccines when considering the totality of their effect on disease prevention across a larger population. I don't like seeing this become a pseudo-war between those who advocate for and against the vaccine. My personal thought is for you to make your (well informed) decision and I'll make mine.

I too believe that some of the things we can and can't do will possibly be affected by whether we have been vaccinated. Air travel, cross-border travel, types of employment, health insurance, admission to certain institutions....all may be linked to proof of vaccination.

I haven't yet received the vaccine. I feel younger every day as I keep being told, "You're not old enough, so stop asking." I may qualify eventually by having birthdays faster than they ship and administer vaccine.

From: Hackbow
10-Feb-21
"Get the vaccine or don’t, I support that decision. I just have a hard time reading the non stop justification of these decisions." TEmbry

Get the vaccine or don’t, I support that decision. I just have a hard time reading the non stop shaming of those that don't get it and the canceling of dissenting voices.

See how that works TEmbry? When those, whose voices are being drowned out and canceled by DC, state govt, big tech, the media, entertainers, sports figures, etc., are pushed, we will push back harder. In any way we can. I'm sorry that allowing other people to fight their own battles 'tires you'. It must be quite the burden.

10-Feb-21
I think it’s great to have options. I also think it’s awesome to see people claim things that they previously mocked others for claiming. It’s great. I also see them make claims of mutations. Totally missing reality that the vaccine may indeed force a mutation too.

It’s all argument to support their ideas. And, that’s cool. One thing that isn’t cool is how sone ideas require forcing others to conform. Or, be considered ignorant or not caring.

I got news for those folk too. I had cancer. My immune system will forever be compromised. I had Covid too. I didn’t end up on a ventilator. Or, even get sick. Just head congestion. I’m not abnormal in that. Statistics say it. That’s the norm. So, this isn’t a pandemic at this point. Not even close.

However, The rhetoric spread by some would have you believe that we are all going to die from this. I got news for you. We are all going to die. Your day and cause has already been established. So, if you feel the need to get the vaccine. Get it with everyone’s support. But, you should allow those that disagree the same in return. Without all the dramatized crap.

From: carcus
10-Feb-21
I got both mine, I work in ICU and have seen what covid can do, younger healthier coworkers of mine got sick and where fuct for over 2 months, these people where in their 20s, so I took my chances with the vaccine. Second shot kicked my ass a little but not enough to not go fishing!

From: heydeerman
10-Feb-21
Had the China virus twice. Both times pretty bad, about as sick as I ever want to get. Strange symptoms that came in an unpredictable sequence. First time in January 2020, last bout was December 2020. Had Covid Christmas aka no Christmas. Not sure if I will get the vaccine but I don’t want to go through that again.

10-Feb-21
No way

From: SteveB
10-Feb-21
Got my first Moderna yesterday. Can’t tell I even had an injection. Hated the thought of it, but seen too much carnage from COVID to ignore it.

From: Croixbaby
10-Feb-21
I'm donating my dose to whoever wants it, so don't look for me in the line any time soon.

10-Feb-21
heydeerman, you had positive covid tests both times?

10-Feb-21
No vaccine for me. I will let God decide when I live and die. Fauci is not God and Biden is a deceiver. Besides, I think I had it last February when they were impeaching Trump the first time and Fauci said we didn’t need a mask. I had a carpenter foreman come to work coughing and hacking all over the place. After about a month it had run its course thru over 100 men on my job site. I swear construction workers are some of the most resilient and toughest guys on the planet. We all just worked thru it like we would any other common cold. Since then I haven’t had so much as a sniffle.

From: Patdel
10-Feb-21
My 81 year old mother got both of her shots. Im not sure which one. 2 of my sisters who work in long term care facilities and health care got them as well. I think it makes sense for them to get it.

I can't think of a good reason for me to get it. From what I'm hearing, its no guarantee you still can't carry and spread the virus. Also protection from the new strains apparently is minimal? I feel like I have pretty low risk from serious illness so why would I? If someone could explain to me in a calm reasonable manner why it is a good idea I would be inclined to listen. But yelling at me and telling me I just want people to die isn't going to get it done.

Read an NPR article the other day that said the pandemic was 10 times worse than we think, because the actual infection rate is 10 times higher than testing shows. Meaning tons of asymptomatic people who never got tested.

Wouldn't that actually be good news? 10 times less likely to cause death or serious illness?

This whole thing is a mess.

From: Woods Walker
10-Feb-21
"This whole thing is a mess."

X1000!!!!!! And "mess" is being kind!

10-Feb-21
trophyhill, I agree.

From: Mule Power
10-Feb-21
Trophy Hill isn’t that the truth. I got it from a coworker.... another carpenter. They quarantined me for two weeks so I did a side job. A sidewalk for my mother. Built the forms and mixed all of the concrete by hand. Carpenters don’t have time for some virus! Lol

From: Old School
10-Feb-21
I’m passing on the shot - but have stated many times that if you want it - go get it. I’ve got no problem with that.

What I will have a problem with is limiting people and their travel or career because they don’t have the “vaccine”. I don’t agree with that at all. Then it’s not really a personal choice - but that seems to be the direction of the left these days - do it our way or we will ostracize and persecute you.

If the vaccine minimizes the effect of Covid - why should you care whether or not I got “vaccinated”.

From: Hackbow
10-Feb-21
trophyhill & Mule Power - same for our construction company. Everyone of them had it. They all worked through it except for 1-3 days each. Never missed a job or deadline. My wife had it and was down for about 9 or 10 days. Not sure if I had it - experienced my annual bout with bronchitis, but not as bad as years past. Mom (77 and in very poor health already) had it and was hospitalized for a week where she contracted pneumonia. In a nursing home now rehabbing. Slow progress, but progress nonetheless. Surprised she didn't succumb. Dad never had any symptoms but recently tested high for antibodies. I personally know well over a hundred people (family, church, friends, business) who have had it. Most have not been severe cases, a few were bad. No one I know has any lasting issues with the exception of my mother and she was already dealing with COPD plus other issues prior.

10-Feb-21
It isn’t about caring whether someone else gets the vaccine for a lot of people. It’s about making people do what they think is right.

If everything is as we are being told, a person deciding to not get the vaccine posses zero threat to those who do get it. That’s not enough though. It can’t be left at that. You gotta do it because it makes people feel better.

I like many here have looked death truly in the face. Down the barrel of a gun, with health, and with stupid things I’ve done but was spared. We’ve all faced it whether we know we have or not. And, should be grateful the Good Lord protected us from obvious death. As we grow older we recognize these happenings. Yet, never consider everyday things we do and the risks involved. We just assume the sun is going to rise everyday until we are tired and want no more. It isn’t going to work that way for almost everyone of us.

Yet, I see that mentality in people who insist the vaccine is the only way. My only question is where is your faith? Where is your brain? Data is telling us that mask aren’t helping. The s ientists ate telling us the vaccine isn’t going to help a lot of people. Yet, we all gotta do it.

I’m tired of being told what to do by people who could care less about me. Who act as if they are smarter then me. And, who insinuate love and compassion is their driving force behind their feelings. That’s a lie. It has to be if real world results mean anything.

I am so happy for those that want a shot, now have the ability to get one. I’m grateful for the hard work put into the whole effort. I’m just not going to put one in my body as things are now. I survived the first or second bout with ease. Might not the next. Time will tell.

Gods been good to me. And, in our talks, I’m not being urged to get it. So, no man or government is going to change that.

From: grossklw
10-Feb-21
I've had covid as well as both moderna doses, feeling fine. I work in healthcare and it was a no-brainer for me; get it or don't get it I guess I don't care. Vaccines save lives, this is a fact, not an opinion. I don't care what your wife learned from her chiro or facebook, the science is not on the fence; it supports their use.

I'm not a big conspiracy theorist and trust the science behind it so I got it. I get that people are worried about it and would want to wait, but I had an opportunity to get mine so I did It will be a condition of employment at my hospital in the near future.

10-Feb-21
To funny “they quarantined me for 2 weeks so I went out and did a side job”.

Similarity back in August our governor of NM said I had to quarantine if I left the state and came back. Well I admit I left and scouted for elk, came home for a couple days to gather all my hunting stuff and left again.

On a side note have you heard the latest? Fauci says we must wear 3 masks and a face shield for at least another year before we achieve herd immunity. I bet he owns a company selling masks.......

From: Matt
10-Feb-21

Matt's Link
Article from Israel with data that vaccination reduces viral load which correlates with the ability to transmit the disease. Perhaps the vaccine will obviate the mask?

From: Croixbaby
10-Feb-21
Don't think I could've shared my sentiments better than WV Mountaineer already did. Well stated, sir!!!!!!

From: NoWiser
10-Feb-21
You anti-vax guys are way too sensitive. I suspect 95% of people who get vaccinated couldn't possibly care less if you decide it's not for you. Grow some thicker skin. The pushback you are seeing is against bad information, it's nothing personal. Of course people are going to jump in and set things straight when arguments are made like "the vaccine will change your DNA."

From: Tracker
10-Feb-21
Got shot number one. Got #2 coming on 2 March.

From: Old School
10-Feb-21
No Wiser - Nice try, But you’re not even close to being accurate.

Just read some threads here. There were numerous people pro-vaccine that weren’t of the “live and let live” attitude you say 95% of them portray. It’s more like this - “You’re either part of the problem or the solution and If you don’t get vaccinated, you are part of the problem.” Doesn’t sound like they don’t care what I do. Sounds like they’ve very much got an opinion and aren’t afraid to ostracize those who don’t think like they do.

From: Hawkarcher
10-Feb-21
Got #2 last Thursday. Sore arm and chills/body aches next morning. Ibuprofen and a nap and I was fine for Friday happy hour.

From: JDBerry
10-Feb-21
Getting the 1st Friday. ...OE

From: MathewsMan
10-Feb-21
I’m on our list here but not old enough or qualifying to be in the 2nd tier, so I wait.

I as all of my immediate family had it around Christmas and I was pretty sick for 6 days where I was pretty much bed ridden and sicker than any flu I’ve ever had.

I am going to get the vaccine as soon as possible.

I would recommend that you keep the cardboard vaccination card they provide and laminate it for the upcoming time that it will be required to get on aircraft or should your employer mandate it. It’s coming as soon as there is sufficient portions of the country provided access to the vaccine.

Feels pretty stupid having to wear a cloth mask which doesn’t protect when I recently had this and cannot get it or give it to anyone.

Weird times we are in.

From: Lawdy
10-Feb-21
I got the shots because I am a first responder, as well as my wife. I also had COVID last year. I don’t care if some don’t want it, I and my wife are covered, plus that third eye growing on my forehead may come in handy.

From: Scoot
10-Feb-21
2nd shot tomorrow.

From: elkmtngear
10-Feb-21

elkmtngear's embedded Photo
elkmtngear's embedded Photo
It's magic...numbers have suddenly started to drop like a stone, dropping from an all-time high...right around the time of Sleepy Joe's Inauguration! Death numbers are following almost exactly the same.

The guy must truly have magic powers! :^D

But...Science !

From: Woods Walker
10-Feb-21

Woods Walker's embedded Photo
Woods Walker's embedded Photo

From: Bob H in NH
10-Feb-21
Numbers are dropping because holidays are over . tons of people traveled and got together so that could explain the Nov to Jan spike

From: Thornton
11-Feb-21

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo
The CDC never has gotten the influenza vaccine right, so I doubt this will be much better. In the meantime, I'll be keeping a tally on the the number of vaccinated patients I see that still get covid.

From: TEmbry
11-Feb-21
“Seasonal Flu” has hundreds of strains that they annually choose 4 to protect against that they feel are most likely to be the most prevalent here in flu season (in large part watching what’s happening currently in the Southern Hemisphere). They pick in mid summer to ramp up production. Sometimes they hit the mark, other times they don’t. Even if you catch a variation of flu not protected by the vaccine data shows the average length of sickness is a shorter duration.

Not at all relevant to the current vaccine or scenario other than both are vaccines and both are relatively low risk choices to potentially protect yourself and others.

I don’t know if I have a live and let live mentality about getting the vaccine, but I certainly don’t about the continual onslaught of misinformation. Usually from the same crowd furious with MSM about their handling of misinformation for the past few years.

From: TrapperKayak
11-Feb-21
I was signed up but cancelled the day before, to wait and see what some of the results and possible longer term impacts are. I'm not worried about it. But I'm not gonna be the guinea pig either.

From: 5575
11-Feb-21
Had the virus, didn't even know it accept for loss of taste and smell. Pretty much every one I know and work with has had it and only my brother inlaws father was hospitalized and he did die but at almost 90 and with allot of other conditions he was ready to go. My state has never required us to wear a mask and probably 98% of the folks I know worked this past entire year accept when the got the virus. Our schools have been open since fall. Kids are in sports, gyms are full, we don't require masks or social distancing any more. I was just at a sold out concert last week and races with full grandstands the next day, packed just like any other normal year it was nice to see and not a mask in the places. Been to benefits in town halls with hundred of folks a month ago and guess what. No super spreader stuff ever happened, in fact our state and the one beside us have the lowest covid cases and deaths in the entire country right now this week. They are saying that maybe 10X the folks had covid and were asymptomatic and were never tested. That means that this virus is even far less deadly than the 99. whatever % recovery rate suggests. They are now saying our natural immunity after having the virus will protect us for years, maybe even up to 10. I'm glad the vaccine is available as my father would probably pass away if he caught it but he'd probably pass if he caught the flu or pneumonia with his age and poor health. I just think if you want to get it go right ahead, and if you don't want it that's fine as well its a free country. Myself I feel that there is allot more behind all this than just a virus, these are troubled times we are headed in to.

From: Will
11-Feb-21
TEmbry your last few posts on this were awesome.

From: Bake
11-Feb-21
I kinda hate to admit it, due to my age, but I've had shot 1 and am scheduled for #2 on Saturday. My wife got the first round as she works walk in clinic and has multiple contacts a day with Covid patients. And I was able to be close by on the last big day, and was able to grab a leftover dose that was going to be wasted if they didn't get someone in to take it.

Interesting, the vials are supposed to have 5 full doses, but most of the vials have 6 full doses, so they end up having some extra is the way I've understood it. But they have to use it quick once they've opened that vial

From: Thornton
11-Feb-21
TEmbry- I've worked ER 14 years, urgent care 1 year, and a short stint in ICU. One season I kept track of how many of my septic patients were vaccinated, and almost all were. That kind of shoots down the garbage they preach that the vaccine reduces symptoms.

From: LINK
11-Feb-21
My brother and father in law currently have COVID. Brother is 46 my father in law 55. Neither one would know they had it except they lost their taste and went in for a test. My brother tested positive for the flu and COVID. What worries me about this is I think the shot will give many a false sense of security. My mother text me yesterday that she was going to come visit after she got her “get out of jail free card next week”. I asked her what that was a she said her vaccine would be at “full force”.

From: elkmtngear
11-Feb-21

elkmtngear's embedded Photo
elkmtngear's embedded Photo

From: Cornpone
11-Feb-21
First shot Feb. 8, second scheduled for Mar. 8...Moderna. Folks can ignore it if they like but two people I personally know didn't make out well after contracting Covid. First was a friend and fellow elk bow hunter, age 78 and very good health. Darn near died...10 days on respirator...the doctors and nurses had him written off, but he made it. Second was my gun club president...77 and also in very good health (although I think he was a smoker) died last week.

From: DanaC
11-Feb-21
I'm curious, does population where you are affect your decision? I live in a densely populated state (Massachusetts) and wherever you go you're exposed to a lot of people.

(For a fun comparison, 5 of the 14 _counties_ in MA have higher populations than the entire state of Wyoming.)

If I lived in a more sparsely populated area, maybe I wouldn't be so motivated.

11-Feb-21
^^^^ Population density, or lack there of, certainly doesn’t diminish my motivation.

From: MathewsMan
11-Feb-21
No, if you come into contact with someone positive not much else matters

From: Matt
11-Feb-21
"It's magic...numbers have suddenly started to drop like a stone, dropping from an all-time high...right around the time of Sleepy Joe's Inauguration! Death numbers are following almost exactly the same. The guy must truly have magic powers! :^D

But...Science !'

So now you are correlating the decline following the 1/8/21 peak with Biden's inauguration and not the predicted decline following the increase in cases from Christmas and New Years (and after seeing a similar, precipitous increase and similar decline after Thanksgiving)?

11-Feb-21
I have had both of my vaccinations over a month ago without anything more than a sore spot on my arm. I do believe that choosing not to get the vaccine may negatively effect others by promoting spread among other unvaccinated and a small percentage of vaccinated persons. Every new infection is an opportunity for mutation and the more severe and longer duration of the illness increasing mutation opportunity. Mutations may then reduce immunity for vaccinated persons. I really don’t want to get in a prolonged back and forth. These are my personal beliefs and I will not advocate for forcing vaccines on anyone. I would ask everyone to read as many well designed peer reviewed studies on the subject as you can stand rather than relying on Facebook or anecdotal observations of internet contributors.

From: MuleyBum
11-Feb-21
Had my first COVID-19 vaccination earlier today and I have an appointment on March 5th to receive my second dose. With that done I will now register to attend the Pope & Young Club in Reno this summer.

From: EIStone
11-Feb-21
All I can tell you guys is that I had Covid in December, started around the 4th. and lasted for 5 weeks, worst illness I have ever had. Feel lucky to have survived it and am still working at getting my strengh and breathing back. Lost 25 lbs. which seems to be mostly muscle in my arms and legs. Drs. say that I don't qualify for the vaccine for 3-4 months due to having to much anti-bodies now. Haven't made up my mind if I will get it when I qualify.

From: casper
12-Feb-21
Does anyone even look at the stuff thats in the vaccine before they lift there shirt up and take the juice into there body? There must be a lot of people that think the government is going to save them and take care of all there health needs with a vaccine shot.

From: Matt
12-Feb-21
"Does anyone even look at the stuff thats in the vaccine before they lift there shirt up and take the juice into there body? There must be a lot of people that think the government is going to save them and take care of all there health needs with a vaccine shot."

Do you? Which ingredient has you concerned? What is your specific basis for that concern? Why do you have such concerns when the vast majority of the medically trained don't? And what is it that you know the FDA doesn't?

Or is this just another attempt to reinforce an uninformed opinion?

From: DanaC
12-Feb-21
Hell, I don't look too close at what's in a shot glass! ;-)

From: Scoot
12-Feb-21
"Or is this just another attempt to reinforce an uninformed opinion?"

Matt is spot on. Those spewing misinformation and paranoia, not so much. There are risks to getting the vaccine (real ones, not the ridiculous BS being thrown around on the internet) and risks to not getting the vaccine. You should get informed and make an informed decision based on the balance of each of those risks. Put another way, you can put a substance developed by scientists in a lab in your body, or get something in your body that was made from soup of dead bat in a totally uncontrolled and dirty environment. Also, for those worried about the longterm effects of the vaccine, how do they compare with the longterm effects of covid? Not many are talking about longterm effects of covid (compared to the vaccine for it), which may be a thing (or may not). Hard to come up with an informed answer to that one, but I'm confident in which one to bet on in terms of worse outcome (hint- see bat soup question above).

From: Kevin Dill
12-Feb-21
I was having a conversation with my wife a year ago about the covid virus and what wasn't known. I told her my biggest concern wasn't dying from the virus. My biggest concern was the potential for long-term health effects. Blood clotting disorders, pulmonary damage, myocarditis, and other very serious secondary effects have been associated with covid infections. When new viruses show up, we simply don't know what things they may cause downstream. I'm not a catastrophist with my thinking....more of a cautious realist. I still think of this virus as something akin to Audrey the plant. We may think we understand it, but it's basically a spanking-new pathogen with only 1+ year of human interaction. We really have no way of knowing the future, and whether (or not) this virus is as simple as we hope it to be.

12-Feb-21
How long did it take to develop the vaccine? How long did it take to develop other vaccines? We can use the polio vaccine as an example. What was the process? Why should I trust that this vaccine even works? Because a guy like Fauci says so? Where’s the proof that this vaccine even works long term or at all? How does the vaccine work? How does it protect you? What are the short term side effects? What are the long term side effects! Are Americans “free” to make their own decision on this? Also there shouldn’t be anyone who is not at risk standing at the front of the line. I think we all know who is at risk.

From: Mule Power
12-Feb-21

Mule Power's Link
Everyone has different circumstances. I’m not high risk. No respiratory conditions or other pre existing conditions. Also I’ve already had the virus although I don’t believe it was the severe strain.

So I feel semi safe for now. I agree that in a year, or by the end of this year there will be a new and greatly improved vaccine. Maybe much sooner actually. So in my situation I think it’s ok to wait. I’m last on the list anyway and to my understanding I can’t get the vaccine for 90 days after testing positive.

I’m actually glad I had it because I intended to wait. We know so little about the virus or the vaccine. Obviously we know nothing about the long term affects of either. This article would suggest that people getting the vaccine right now will be back in line before too long. Quite possibly the back of the line.

Patience is always a good thing. Why run down the hill and jump on one of those cows when you can walk down there and have all of them said the wise old bull. I lost a very good friend this past year. I have another in the hospital on oxygen right now. So I definitely take it seriously. But I also take seriously putting things into my body. I take very little drugs whether prescription or otc. None long term.

Some people have a pill box so they can prefill each section with 10 pills a day. Some are obviously necessary but many are not. To each his own but that’s not my cup of tea.

From: Old School
12-Feb-21
Those are my exact thoughts Mule Power.

From: Lawdy
12-Feb-21
Having had both Covid and the shots, I wear a neck gaiter when in a store and that’s it. I am a first responder and when the medical examiner had what was left of a guy who bailed into a guardrail at 80 mph sent to a hospital to get tested for Covid, we, as a department lost respect for the system and its accountability. I used a shovel to put his brains and coagulated blood into the body bag. The two nursing homes I play music for have not recorded a single flu fatality this fall and winter, it’s a miracle. It’s a virus, so tiny that you need an electron microscope to analyze it effectively. I read that 97% of those contracting Covid wore masks. I was one of them. A wonderful placebo in the long run. Definitely not the cure, immunity is.

From: tobywon
12-Feb-21
I haven't gotten mine yet, just not my turn. I don't have a problem with anyone making a choice whether to get it or not. It is funny seeing some comments on this thread that are grabbed off the internet without knowing any science behind it. I understand the reservations about putting something foreign like that into your body, it doesn't sit well with me from that standpoint as well. Hell, some people complain about the vaccine since they don't want to put that into their bodies, but they eat like crap, smoke, and drink excessively. I wonder how the comments would be if a pandemic occurred where getting the disease had a low survival rate.

I also try to think of things differently. Just like bowhunting from the 1950's-1960's to present day, technology advances have come a long way and we have that many more years of knowledge (and scientific study with viruses and how vaccines work). So knowledge of how viruses work and how vaccines are developed have come a long way and is likely a major factor that a vaccine was developed faster and to some point approved faster.

From: Bob H in NH
12-Feb-21
I don't see this being required, just like no other shots are required.

But having or not having it will trigger other things: - Can you travel? Will other countries let you in? Will our country let you back in? - will events/places require it? Also will it simply make your life easier if you have it now? WY has now said if you have the shots and long enough for them to be fully functional (it's not instant), then there's no reason to wear a mask in public. Hell even CDC is saying that, but they are asking you to consider wearing one to support those who still have to (sorry, not my problem).

There's a few place, IMO, you should NOT use for info on this: - media - internet, including youtube Go to the CDC site, find someone in this field. Pick their brain, talk to your doctor. Yes there are unknowns, there always are. For my wife and I, we will get it when we can. Our son is a viral biologist and does testing including on mRNA things. He understands it (though i can't even understand his explanations), he said "Mom, Dad, just get the shots). If I can't trust my son who is educated and does this for a living, why would I trust some random internet or media person?

If you do your research, including what restrictions you may or may not have based on your vaccination status, make your decision. That's your right.

From: JL
12-Feb-21
My 70-something yr old Coastie buddy finally got both of his shots at Patrick AFB. He just told me a bit ago this morning his wife finally got a shot appt at a Publix grocery store in St Augustine, FL. They live in Melbourne about 143 miles to the south. He texted me at 6-something this morning they have been logged on to the Publix site since 0500 trying to register for an appt and they finally got in. This has been going on for a couple of weeks.

From: Scoot
12-Feb-21

Scoot's Link
Trophyhill, see below...

How long did it take to develop the vaccine? Less than a year for the final product, but the technology and initial work in developing the vaccine(s) was in the works for a long time.

How long did it take to develop other vaccines? Much longer- science and understanding of vaccines/viruses have changed dramatically as we know more. Using polio as an example is kinda like describing how Henry Ford made a vehicle vs. how they are made now...

What was the process? The process is well documented- look it up, educate yourself.

Why should I trust that this vaccine even works? I think it's pretty clear you're not going to, not matter how well supported the vaccine and the science behind it is.

Because a guy like Fauci says so? Obviously not- he's just a spokesperson. Again, educate yourself!

Where’s the proof that this vaccine even works long term or at all? "Proof" is an interesting word. Things we have "proven" in the past sometimes turn out to be incorrect or at least not complete. There is clear support for the effectiveness of the vaccine(s). If you choose not to believe that because of paranoid ramblings you read o the internet, that's your choice.

How does the vaccine work? Again, this is well documented. Educate yourself! There are three primary mechanisms of action- look them up.

How does it protect you? See the link- it's a reasonable summary of some basic info regarding the vaccine(s).

What are the short term side effects? This is pretty well characterized at this point. Look them up.

What are the long term side effects! There's no way to know this. See my post (and Kevin Dill's post) above. This concern/question should be balanced against what the long term impact of getting covid might be (which also can't be known at this point).

Are Americans “free” to make their own decision on this? Ummm... yes.

From: Will
12-Feb-21
Trophyhill - started in 03 with the original SARS virus. I was also being worked on for other conditions such as cancer. Finally in 17 there was a workable mRNA system but SARS the original and MERS (kissing cousin) were so confined that there were not big pushes to move it forward and other conditions where similar technology may work were not ready yet.

So. If you want to to know how "old" the technology is, one could very reasonably make the case that it's 15-17 years old - which is why, once research had the virus's structural make up, they could rather quickly create the part (spike protein) they wanted to use to fight this, and go to phase 1 trials.

Now, if that general history of mRNA vaccine strategies for coronavirus's feels like it doesnt apply because this one is like 8 months old or what not.

Consider that it was used on tends of thousands in testing and went very well... And has now been used in millions. One interesting point is that as the total numbers have gone up, one area people were concerned about (anaphylaxis) has actually been found to be occurring at a slightly lower rate than the clinical trials found.

So, while the Warp Speed process smoothed out the process and allowed a more rapid succession between trial phases, it didnt reduce oversight for safety/efficacy. It was a solid get vax's developed process - and it build on around a decade and a half of mRNA vaccine research focused on very similar virus's.

Others have noted this, but if "long term effects" of the vax create fear, you should discuss the actual long term side effects of even modest SARS-CoV2-2019 infection with medical providers dealing with it every day. To describe the long term risk of COVID19 as massively worse than anything the vax has even created the slightest sniff of at this point would be an understatement.

The hardest thing is that for many the illness is not a super big deal, and it's easy to see or hear a few stories like that or experience it ourselves and then assume that's reality. In reality, that thinking pattern is a logical fallacy. It's a significant illness for a LOT of folks.

From: Bowbender
12-Feb-21
The issue is not so much how the vaccine was developed, but the time frame in which it was implemented. It’s somewhat disingenuous to compare this vaccine with polio. It’s the fact that there have been ZERO long term studies to the efficacy and side effects. We are the clinical and trials. The same medical professionals that have stood behind years of testing, multiple clinical, ph1-ph3 trials are now the same ones that assure us the vaccine is safe without any of the previously mandated testing required. THAT’S the issue.

I sure as hell am not an anti-vaxxer. Kids all had their shots. But I did work with pharma in new drugs and their delivery systems and and what is required to move from each stage of clinicals to ultimate use. That hasn’t happened with these vaccines.

12-Feb-21
Not getting it. I will just wear 2 masks... one on each ear,so I cant hear their b.s..

From: elkwatcher
12-Feb-21
Yes, experienced no side affects.

From: Hackbow
12-Feb-21
I'm enjoying all the red herrings being promulgated by the pro-vax crowd about how the anti-vax crowd is promulgating red herrings. Like in every polarizing issue, the extremists on either side think they will "win" by shouting louder and longer.

I'm not anti-vax. I'm anti-Chicom Flu Indoctrination Inoculation (for myself) due to: the incredibly high survival rate, the FACT that "knowledge" about the Chicom Flu changes frequently as shared by the "experts", the medical community being divided on treatment AND the dissenting voices being silenced by the powerbrokers, the powerbrokers being unified in telling us what to do and finally a complete distrust of the powerbrokers and their motives.

Half of the posters to this thread are fully accepting of being told what to do by a laundry list of entities that have proven they want you to have fewer rights, liberties and freedoms. I'm not nearly as willing as most "...to give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety..." and have little respect for those trying to force me into that mindset.

From: Hackbow
12-Feb-21
"I will just wear 2 masks... one on each ear,so I cant hear their b.s.."

Best response yet Landshark Launcher. :o)

From: Jackaroo
12-Feb-21
The two mask thing is to force more vaccinations. They are hoping people will get frustrated not being able to breath wearing two masks and will either stay home or get vaccinated. People cannot even see how they are being manipulated.

From: Bob H in NH
12-Feb-21
This one is not clear cut. Will you get C19? Most likely you will be exposed, eventually. Will it kill you? Statistically, most likely not Will you feel like you have a bad cold/flu? Possible as many have shown, heck my own dad, other than being extremely tired, felt ok and beat it in 5 days. Will it have long lasting effects? Maybe, it has for some and it's unpredictable who it hits how. So there's alot of unknown, but data/stats on how bad it will be for you and those you may infect. You get to decide how dangerous this is for you and if you are comfortable with that risk.

balance that against the vaccine. - Does it "cure" C19? Not always, but 95+% effective - Effective can range from "less severe" to "don't get it" - Long term effects? Unknown - Is it safe? Yes, at least as safe as other vaccines

Wonder of the USA, you get to pick which scenario you want.

From: Grey Ghost
12-Feb-21
I could have sworn many of you who are anti-vaccine, now, where praising Trump for streamlining the FDA approval process just a few months ago. Funny how opinions shift like the wind.

Matt

From: Hackbow
12-Feb-21
"Wonder of the USA, you get to pick which scenario you want."

Bob - increasingly not the case.

From: JL
12-Feb-21
I'll wear two masks when Prez Biden can string together two thoughts. IMO.....said it before and I'll say it again.....a mask alone is not the answer. There's been too many dedicated mask wearers who got the virus via other pathways. A mask gives a false since of security and invincibility.

From: midwest
12-Feb-21
I was planning on getting the vaccine but now I'm concerned it may turn me into a flaming liberal. ;-)

From: Hackbow
12-Feb-21
Show your work GG. You're simply claiming your red herrings are better red herrings than the red herrings of those with whom you typically disagree. Most of those defending Trump for getting behind the Warp Speed program had to defend him from the likes of you for hating on him for "not doing enough" and "killing people" with his policies.

I actually didn't give two sh!ts about the warp speed program for a vaccine that will save a miniscule amount of people, relatively speaking. If we all cared about health so much, there would be a complete ban on ALL smoking, ALL alcohol, ALL processed foods with sugar, ALL vehicular traffic over (XX?) MPH, ALL face-to-face gatherings without FULL PPE.

This is one minor issue compared to the hundreds of thousands of deaths that occur from preventable causes on an annual basis - if we only asked Big Brother to control our behavior just a little more, and a little bit more, and a little bit more, etc.

From: 70lbdraw
12-Feb-21
So, now the cat is out of the bag on Cuomo lying through his teeth about the nursing home death toll. Equally as bad, is the MSM knowingly helped him dupe his loyal herd of gullible sheep. At this point, even if someone claimed to have accurate data, how can anyone trust it? Remember...never let a good crisis go to waste.

From: Hackbow
12-Feb-21
midwest - getting the vaccine won't make you a libtard. Agreeing with and advocating for the policies and regulations being proposed and discussed making travel, employment, patronage, benefits, etc. unavailable to those who don't get the Chicom Flu Indoctrination Inoculation makes you a libtard.

From: midwest
12-Feb-21
"Agreeing with and advocating for the policies and regulations being proposed and discussed making travel, employment, patronage, benefits, etc. unavailable to those who don't get the Chicom Flu Indoctrination Inoculation makes you a libtard."

Thankfully, I don't see anyone here on this thread doing that.

From: LINK
12-Feb-21
Praising trump for streamlining the process and willingness to take it are unrelated for many. A lot of people trust that he did what he can but a lot of people don’t trust bureaucracy of any kind. Completely understandable.

From: Scoot
12-Feb-21
The amount of misinformation and ridiculous commentary in this thread is really quite impressive!

From: JL
12-Feb-21
For historical context....Prez Trump dealing with this virus is similar to Prez Bush dealing with 9/11. Both events came out of nowhere and forced the govt to be creative in a rapid fashion. IMO you have to give credit to both Prez's Trump and Bush for being confronted by these tragedies on their watch and moving the country forward.

From: sjj
12-Feb-21
Ones own healthcare is no ones business. I dont understand people wanting to let others know they are vaccinated or not. It's no ones business. I work in healthcare. Shared decision making and informed consent is key...I would not be the first in line to get the vaccine at this time and I would fight any mandates that you "have to" have it tooth and nail. I would think twice about kids getting it and especially young women. Young people don't die from the CCP virus.

From: JL
12-Feb-21
SJJ....a hypothetical of sorts that I could see becoming a possibility.

If a person chooses not to get the vaccine, then becomes infected and infects someone else that results in the death of that 2nd person.....is that 1st person who intentionally refused to get the vaccine have any legal culpability in the death of the 2nd person?

From: Bowfreak
12-Feb-21
JL,

NO. Not even in leftist America.

12-Feb-21
It’s becoming ever more apparent that the America I grew up in, ain’t the same one some of you grew up in.

This is not a pandemic in anyway unless you make it out to be one by speculation. But, we have to consider reality as we know it now. And, that doesn’t involve sacrifices to make other feel better by force. If this things grows to that, we can all have a civilized talk about it then. But, we ain’t even close to that.

It keeps getting said to follow the science. Well, that’s the science of it. A survival rate so high we have to speculate on the true numbers because so many people have had it and didn’t even know to test for it. That’s not a pandemic. Yet, we keep getting told to follow the science. Well, that’s what I’m doing. Speculation isn’t proven.

Anyways, I really never thought I’d see the day where it was considered that people might be Liable for failing to to take a shot for something that is currently so non lethal. Yeah boy, hire a lawyer and try to push that through civil court. See how that goes for you. I’m betting the Corona virus will become your last worry at that point.

From: 70lbdraw
12-Feb-21
"NO. Not even in leftist America."

Don't be so sure. Florida has it included in their STI or STD laws. Don't EVER put anything past a liberal. They'll jail their own mother if it fit the narrative.

From: grape
12-Feb-21
Yep. Had both shots. I want to go back to Canada when the border opens. In my opinion, there is no way you will be able to cross without proof of vaccination.

From: JL
12-Feb-21
There is already precedent in a slightly different case. You can do a Google and see folks who intentionally infected someone with the AIDS virus were held liable. I can see the family of someone who was infected with the corona virus and died as the result of another infected individual who refused to get vaccinated ending up in court.

There are already circumstances (laws) where vaccinations can be mandatory. Kids going to school is one example.

From: huntforever
12-Feb-21
They have tried to make vaccines for the other "Cornavirus" family members including SARS, which has a 79% genome sequence identity with COVID-19, in the past. They have had the same problem with all of them, which prevented them from making it to the human trials. The problem occurred during animal testing, which was bypassed by the emergency authorization act by the FDA. After the animals were vaccinated with the 2 dose vaccines, they were allowed to naturally be infected with the virus in the wild. A large majority of the animals would have a hyper-immune response and would die. I'm not a doctor, but I will not be taking the vaccine! As stated above, they define a COVID death as anyone who dies from anything and tests positive. Pretty funny how they have known for many months that the PCR (polymerase chain reaction) tests being used cause massive false positives. Even the inventor of the test stated that the test should not be used for this. The test causes the amount of virus DNA from the sample to be exponentially increased with every "cycle". They have been completing around 35 cycles for the tests, which amplifies the amount of virus DNA so much that it causes a false positive. The test also considers any "Coronavirus" family DNA as a positive, which some common colds or flu strains, will produce. Amazing why the flu is non-existent this year, and COVID cases spiked at the same time the annual flu occurs! For what it is worth, even WHO states that the PCR tests cause upwards of 90% false positive results. If COVID deaths are considered to be a death by any cause as long as the person tests positive, and the false positives are even near 50%, then the actual morbidity rate of this Plandemic is far less than the normal flu! It always has been and always will be about the money and control. These people are sociopaths with no moral conscience and have a never ending thirst for power! Do your own research, but as I said before, NO WAY!

From: Lawdy
12-Feb-21
I am in agreement with grape. We have a place in Newfy. My fondest wish would be if we were able to get there but not allowed to return. The last time we crossed into Maine a young border agent gave us a wicked hard time and told us that he could prevent us from entering. I told him that nothing would make me happier. The little bastard let us through. I had the whole asylum thing all worked out in my head to present to the Canadian government.

From: Matt
12-Feb-21

Matt's Link
And to think the anti-vax movement has been broadened beyond the most elite of California's liberal elite, the Amish, and Christian Scientists (oh, and people who put more faith in Facebook than their primary care physician).

From: sundowner
12-Feb-21
Had first shot last week.

It would not surprise me at all to learn that the vaccine is nothing but sugar water.

I believe none of what I hear and half of what I see.

From: Glunt@work
12-Feb-21
If the vaccine ends up working well its a game changer for future vaccines and recipients can say they were part of the first successful mRNA vaccine. Around the world there are other types being used.

13-Feb-21
Too funny. “Anti-vax” speaking solely for myself, I call it.......now listen very closely for those who don’t mind losing liberty and freedom 1 piece at a time, I call it “pro-freedom”. You want to get the vax? Go for it. I love when guys try to vilify others who don’t agree with losing their personal freedoms.

13-Feb-21
Huntforever much of the information you have provided is not accurate. I have looked all over for a WHO statement reporting that PCR testing results in 90% false positives. If you have a link or reliable source I would like to see it. Amplification of PCR tests is a normal part of the testing procedure. Each test has a threshold level where the test is considered positive after a specific number of amplification cycles. Cycles are not continued after that number to create a positive result. In order for a test to be approved by the FDA it must show that it does not have cross sensitivity with 20 common respiratory illnesses including colds and other corona viruses. The tests are highly accurate and the most common reason for a false positive is failure by a lab to not strictly adhere to testing procedures. It does happen but I do not believe it is common.

From: Will
13-Feb-21
Jerry - correct. The post you reference is so full of information that is not correct it's incredible.

Please do not trust social media stuff for information - I realize that's odd as I type it into a social media platform. Seriously though, the level of pseudoscience sometimes dropped out there is astonishing.

From: Tonybear61
13-Feb-21
I did not realize there is still so much bad and blatantly incorrect info out there.

I have met employees of clients who later died of COVID-19. I have also met those who were quite ill and others who had the meh... nothing burger reaction. This is real but the individual response is quite variable. I wish I could get the shot but the govt. doesn't have me on the preference list even though I was an essential worker early on with a primary focus of providing health and safety or industrial hygiene consulting.

That said, the COVID-19 vaccine which is mRNA based not DNA based is new but the building blocks for it started with other SARS outbreaks. No you can't get COIVD-19 from the vaccine, its not alive, never been alive just a key for you body to know when COVID-19 comes a calling. (e.g. Knock Knock, Who's there?, COVID-19, Sorry we gave at the office... those two big white corpuscles behind you can help you off the property).

I sat in on a webinar hosted by Los Alamos lab about a month ago with a lot of other safety professionals. An interesting presentation that even in that environment there are still COVID-19 deniers and highly technical people who don't get it. One of the things mentioned was in the trials of the vaccine out of the thousands upon thousands of test subjects only 1 (one) uno, einse, ichi, I, ONE person caught COVID-19 that required any level of critical care. Thats right only ONE out of thousands upon thousands vaccinated was unprotected. Go enough for me I will get the shots.

From: Matt
13-Feb-21
"Too funny. “Anti-vax” speaking solely for myself, I call it.......now listen very closely for those who don’t mind losing liberty and freedom 1 piece at a time, I call it “pro-freedom”. You want to get the vax? Go for it. I love when guys try to vilify others who don’t agree with losing their personal freedoms."

Too funny indeed. The grand irony here is that the loss of liberty and freedom due to COVID restrictions is what many guys were bitching about at the onset of the pandemic. Now that there is a tool to reverse those losses, they are bitching about it for the same reason.

From: Glunt@work
13-Feb-21
The tool to not be shut down was always available.

13-Feb-21
Had my 2nd shot. Put me down for about 3 days, but I'm feeling better now and gald I got them. TMBB

From: Scoot
13-Feb-21
Once again, Matt is 100% correct above.

Also, trophy, I whole heartedly support your ability to choose whether to get the vaccine or not. I have several friends choosing to not get it and I support their choice, in large part because they offer reasonable reasons to not get it. I choose differently than them, but I couldn't support them and their choice any more than I do. However, the rationale you provide above as to why you choose to not get it is filled with misinformation and a clear lack of understanding. If you had a valid reason to not get vaccinated that was based in accurate, rational info your case to not get it would be a whole lot more defensible. In the end it's also your choice to not get informed and still make the decision for yourself. I hope that ends up being a good decision for you (and I truly mean that).

From: Matt
13-Feb-21
"The tool to not be shut down was always available.

Do you have a time machine hidden in the shed?

I decided to lead with that rather than the "if my aunt had balls,..." line.

From: Glunt@work
13-Feb-21
Shutting down was forced on people through threat of force. My opinion is that the level we shut down wasn't necessary or prudent. The tool was simply stop forcing society to shut down.

From: Woods Walker
13-Feb-21
SILENCE Glunt! Listen to your government. They know what's best for you. They are always truthful and they'd NEVER lie. Dr. Fauxie even says so. They're our shepherds and we're the sheep......baaaaa........

13-Feb-21

ND String Puller's Link

From: RMhunter
14-Feb-21
I've had covid and unfortunately most of my family has. It wasn't bad on me but was for a few of the older members who got it. I'm not gonna take the vaccine but have several members of my family who will. Do what's best for you. My good friends dad and mom got their second shot two weeks ago and now he's in the ICU and they wanted to intubate him today but he refused. He's 80 and a tough old farmer so hopefully he can whoop it. They told him that it took the vaccine several weeks to actually start working

From: DanaC
14-Feb-21

DanaC's embedded Photo
DanaC's embedded Photo
If the virus is passed by contact, what else BESIDES shutting down is going to slow the spread? Too many people are too bleeping stupid to do the smart thing _voluntarily_.

I mentioned 'population density' earlier. It's not coincidence that the most densely populated areas have the highest rates of infection, but people will STILL ride public transportation and gather too closely.

I used the example of Wyoming vs. 'Worcester County, Massachusetts' which is extreme, but it illustrates how unevenly population is distributed across the country. (Wyoming has 3/4 of the people of WCMa but 62 times the area.)

I think we can agree that methods that are helpful in one place don't make sense everywhere. (And I'll deal with the situation *here* tyvm.)

From: Mule Power
14-Feb-21
“My good friend’s dad and mom got their SECOND shots two weeks ago and now he’s in the ICU and they wanted to intubate him”

And that isn’t internet misinformation folks.....

From: DanaC
14-Feb-21
" And that isn’t internet misinformation folks..... "

It's 'anecdotal'. In statistical speak, it's ONE data point. Without the particulars of the case it would be useless to draw conclusions from it. As so many have pointed out above, getting the shots does not give you 'instant Teflon' protection from catching the virus. I'm getting the shots and then I'm still gonna avoid the heck out of crowds for another two months.

From: Scoot
14-Feb-21
So what is your point, Mule? Do you think my buddy reporting his grandpa died from covid is internet misinformation? He's reported it here on this site-- must be gov made up bs, huh? As I said above, there are risks associated with getting the virus and risks associated with getting the vaccine. Because someone had problems associated with getting the vaccine (btw RMs report doesn't tell us the reason he's in the hospital- could be pneumonia/something else and unrelated, if course it might not be too) doesn't mean the vaccine is a joke/mistake/hoax. Kinda like if the numbers were inflated (which they clearly have been) the virus isn't fictitious. If NASA misrepresented one thing about the moon landing would you conclude man has never been on the moon?

Arguing from the standpoint of a conspiracy theorist makes people sound a lot like the folks who claim the holocaust never happened, we've never been on the moon, and the earth is flat. Because numbers have been inflated doesn't discount everything and make covid a conspiracy.

Get informed and educated about the risks of the virus and the vaccine. Once informed, made a decision about the balance of risks.

From: Dikndirt
14-Feb-21
I got my first shot (moderna) 6 days ago, no serious side effects at all, will get second in three weeks

From: Kevin Dill
14-Feb-21

Kevin Dill's embedded Photo
Kevin Dill's embedded Photo
I’m still too young, but this is me after I get mine:

From: Ziek
14-Feb-21
Colorado opened up to people over 65 on Feb 8. My wife and I got our first Pfizer shot yesterday, and scheduled for the second in 3 weeks. Only mild soreness in the arm for both of us. One step closer to getting through this.

From: Ursus Hunter
14-Feb-21
I'm in Pennsylvania. Signed up for the Vaccine when my county first opened appointments. I am over 65 w/qualifying Medical issues. As of Friday I have 'ONLY' 35,000 people in front of me. As the County is giving 1000 + or - shots a week best case scenario is June at the earliest, but more likely August. So I'm making the assumption at that point all of these discussions will possibly be moot.

So my philosophy is to go on with my Life. Wife & I are heading to Florida for a couple of weeks to do some Fishing, enjoy the warm sunshine, & partake of the Floridian hospitality.

14-Feb-21
I’m not speaking for Mule. Only saying what is obvious to me.

His point is he had the virus. It was for him like it was/has been for roughly 90% of the people who has had it. Very mild. His point is he also knows the virus is deadly for such a small portion, way less then 1% of the people who get it, that he doesn’t prioritize getting the vaccine. He isn’t knocking you for getting it. And, he’s trying to point out that there are many unknowns. And, That the effectiveness isn’t known.

Basically, he is saying everything being stated by the same science you fellas are picking and choosing your points to further your position. The difference is, he isn’t picking and choosing his truths. He taking everything for face value and developing an approach he’s comfortable with.

That’s something not shared by a bunch on this thread. So, if it’s not you, don’t get defensive. If it is you, It’s like you can’t grasp someone not seeing it the same way. Even though there is enough SCIENCE available to suggest it’s a warrantied approach.

That’s what I read from him and everyone else sharing his position. It’s not based on fear, conspiracy theory, or anything other then results. So, Saying differently doesn’t make it so.

From: Mule Power
14-Feb-21
Scoot exact opposite. I think it’s 100% fact. We all know that there are a number of people who have gotten the flu immediately after being vaccinated. But the flu is the flu. Covid is more lethal to high risk people so that makes me nervous. Prayers to your buddy’s dad.

From: Bowbender
14-Feb-21
"Get informed and educated about the risks of the virus and the vaccine. Once informed, made a decision about the balance of risks."

So......what you're saying is we need to wait several years until long term clinicals and trials are in place? Because right now, there are NONE. We have a flu that we have known about for a year, a vaccine, substantially less than that. Mike in Ct (and he works in the field) had mentioned that he didn't think a vaccine would be available for ~2 years and that would be fast tracked. Again, there are no long term studies that show either the effectiveness nor the side effects. THAT is my issue. Period. There is NO long term information to make an informed opinion. And just because the government says this fast tracked vaccine is OK, doesn't make it so. In the not so distant past this is the same government that conducted STD studies on blacks, and LSD studies by the CIA with an untold number of deaths and destroyed lives.

How many of you when your favorite truck brand releases a brand spanking new generation, new engine, transmission, electronics, etc, say I'm gonna wait a few years till all the bugs get worked out before I drop some $$. But a new vaccine, relativley untested, lined up to get it and mock those that question the validity of how it was rushed thru.

FTR, my kids have had all their shots, my grandkids, I get tetnaus boosters when required. I don't get the flu shot. It typically is a crap shoot as to which flu hits (apparently all other flu strains are extinct) and it's typically only 40-50% effective. Plus the last two times my wife got it, she was hammered hard, laid up two weeks, with the flu. Vaccines fault? Her own body's reaction? Just a freak occurence? Who knows... Not opposed to the standard flu vaccine, just not getting it. And apparently there have been no cases or deaths attributed to the "old" flu.

From: BOHNTR
14-Feb-21
Good Lord folks.....if you want to take the vaccine, take it. If not, then don’t. It’s really nobody’s business either way!

From: Bowfreak
14-Feb-21
DanaC,

The problem is that the lockdowns really did nothing to slow the virus.

From: Glunt@work
14-Feb-21
Lock downs may have changed how fast the virus spread. Just not worth ruining the economy and people's jobs and businesses.

A 25 MPH national speed limit would save lives.

Remember when closing for 15 days was an unprecedented move?

From: Grey Ghost
14-Feb-21
I'd being willing to bet Mike in CT has already gotten his Covid vaccine. Perhaps he will chime in and confirm.

Matt

From: Bake
14-Feb-21

Bake's embedded Photo
Bake's embedded Photo

From: Scoot
14-Feb-21
Mule, I think I misunderstood your post- my apologies.

From: Ursus Hunter
14-Feb-21
I'm in Pennsylvania. Signed up for the Vaccine when my county first opened appointments. I am over 65 w/qualifying Medical issues. As of Friday I have 'ONLY' 30,000 people in front of me. As the County is giving 1000 + or - shots a week best case scenario is June at the earliest, but more likely August. So I'm making the assumption at that point all of these discussions will possibly be moot.

So my philosophy is to go on with my Life. Wife & I are heading to Florida for a couple of weeks to do some Fishing, enjoy the warm sunshine, & partake of the Floridian hospitality.

From: Bake
14-Feb-21
I went to a gun auction yesterday and there were about 300 people crammed into a 40x40 room

My biggest regret is I passed on a Franchi instinct, 3 CZ woodcocks, and 3 CZ ring necks. I should have brought one of them suckers home

From: Hackbow
14-Feb-21
And the red herrings continue to get get tossed out by those that believe the govt, Big Tech, Big Pharma and the rest of the powerbrokers care about health or individuals.

The ONLY thing that matters is whether or not an individual, American Citizen, wants to get the vaccine or not. My agreement with your reasons isn't necessary. Your agreement for my reasons isn't necessary. If you don't advocate for my choice to be invalid, we're good. If you do, you'll be high on the list when the fecal matter hits the oscillating device - you have proven that you do not care about individual rights, freedoms and liberties as much as you care about your safety and compliance with Big Brother.

Bake - your meme is insensitive and demeaning to those for whom truth and common sense is a trigger. Shame!

From: Bowbender
14-Feb-21
"I'd being willing to bet Mike in CT has already gotten his Covid vaccine. Perhaps he will chime in and confirm."

I would love to hear Mike's thoughts as well.

From: Glunt@work
14-Feb-21
Been eyeing a Ringneck or the Huglu branded version. Pretty decent reviews.

14-Feb-21

DiRTY MiKE 's embedded Photo
DiRTY MiKE 's embedded Photo

From: Woods Walker
14-Feb-21

Woods Walker's embedded Photo
Woods Walker's embedded Photo
In case you get bored...........

From: DanaC
14-Feb-21
Re Bowfreak - "DanaC, The problem is that the lockdowns really did nothing to slow the virus. "

I think that depends, again, on where you are, population density etc. In 'thin' areas it probably doesn't matter. If it had been pushed *harder* *sooner* in densely populated areas, who knows? It seems to be helping in other countries, although I haven't really studied it hard. (They do seem to *enforce* it harder.)

From: Thornton
14-Feb-21

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo
Glunt. I've got a bobwhite I really like. Only problem is the blueing isn't very good on it and it tends to wear off where my hand is on the left barrel.

Dirty Mike- whole different ball game with virus vaccines. Viruses mutate, hence the high fail rate.

14-Feb-21
Stop. Go put your tinfoil hat on before the aliens hear you..

From: Bake
14-Feb-21
On a serious note. I got my second shot yesterday. Haven’t had any side effects yet. But my back is out and I’m heavily medicated so maybe I just haven’t noticed ;)

From: Mule Power
14-Feb-21
No problem Scoot. Love you too man! ;-)

From: Hopeless
16-Feb-21
One minor issue: Every time Catherine revs up the microwave I piss my pants and forget who I am for a half hour or so.

From: Will
16-Feb-21
Dirty Mike - I'm stealing that!

17-Feb-21
How’s the flu this year?!?

From: Glunt@work
17-Feb-21

17-Feb-21
As predicted by all the mask experts the flu is way down. Due to masks and people staying away from social gatherings gs and such. But, Covid has sky rocketed due to people not wearing masks or family gatherings for the holidays. Who’d thunk it right?

One thing is for sure, we can’t win against this Covid. We can beat the flu bug though.

From: midwest
17-Feb-21
lol@ Hopeless!

From: craigmcalvey
17-Feb-21
I’m an emergency department nurse in MI. Got both my moderna vaccines and was sick after both, although the second one was far worse. If I hadn’t been involved in healthcare there is no way I’d have gotten the vaccine as I’m young and healthy.

Craig

From: Glunt@work
17-Feb-21

Glunt@work's embedded Photo
Glunt@work's embedded Photo
Glunt@work's embedded Photo
Glunt@work's embedded Photo

From: TreeWalker
17-Feb-21
I ain't never needed a fire extinguisher or smoke alarm so I ain't putting those in my home and you sure can't make me. Now replace safety devices with vaccine. My buddy bragged how ne never got the flu shot and how he knows a friend of a friend that got the flu same week as the shot. Well, vaccines take time and the flu shot takes time. Anyway, my buddy got knocked on his rear by the flu in spring 2020. He was sure he had the Rona but twas not. He sort of changed his mind about his bullet-proofness and need for an extra large pouch on the front of his underwear. Survivor bias is the well-known scenario where a few people are no worse for wear by not going to the dentist or they smoke two packs a day or avoid flu shots. Back in WW11, the reporter was interviewing a squad that rotated back from the front lines and one soldier was telling how he had guys killed at his side in firefights and he was protected and going to make it home without a scratch. Call me Lucky, he said. Same squad rotated back to the lines and then back to the rear and the reporter asked about Lucky. Sniper shot to the head. I appreciate all the smokers and folks that avoid brushing their teeth and avoid seatbelts, etc and confidently declare they are just a different breed immune to what ails the weak and prissy. Why? Improves my odds for getting full Social Security payments for a bit longer.

From: Zim
18-Feb-21
At 61 I had a case of full blown Covid back in November, which ruined my deer season. I travel a 6 state area for my job, so do plan on getting a vaccine. However, I got two potential int'l trips planned. June to Canada, August to China. These countries could change their entry policies several times before these dates, so I'll wait until the last week or two in case either has some short time requirement for vaccine. That's my plan anyway.

From: DanaC
18-Feb-21
TreeWalker - LMAO!!! Thanks for that!

From: Will
18-Feb-21
TreeWalker, that is a good one :)

From: Zbone
21-Feb-21
Started having cold like symptoms last Thursday Feb 11th while at work, sneezing mainly at first, then coughing/stuffy head, etc... Had Friday and Saturday off and didn't feel good Friday and slept most of Saturday but thought it was just a cold coming on, so didn't have a fever and went back to work on Sunday morning but couldn't hack it and went home sick after two hours... By Monday was deathly ill so work requested me to Covid test before returning,,, I tested positive and am quarantined... I'm 61 and it may be due to my age but I had a real hard time with it,,, been a rough week... Doing a little better today, good enough to finally get on the internet...

From: Grey Ghost
21-Feb-21
That sucks, Gary. I hope you recover quickly. And I hope you didn't infect any of your family or coworkers.

Matt

From: Scrappy
21-Feb-21

Scrappy's embedded Photo
Scrappy's embedded Photo

From: BC
21-Feb-21
I'm trying to get an appointment but so far no luck. I've got no problem with getting vac, thankful it's available. Better than getting sick or worse, giving it to my pregnant daughter.

From: Mule Power
21-Feb-21
I wonder how long until the Johnson and Johnson single dose vaccine is available.

From: Kevin Dill
22-Feb-21
Gary....Hope you feel better quickly. Spring is said to be on the way!

From: Zbone
22-Feb-21
Thanks guys...

From: lewis
22-Feb-21
Scheduled for this Friday we shall see good luck all Lewis

From: WapitiBob
22-Feb-21
Done with mine, no issues.

From: Will
22-Feb-21
Right on BC!

From: JL
22-Feb-21
I shifted ops to the Southern Command Center Friday/Saturday. This morning I walked into the local VA clinic to make sure my info in MI transferred to FL in the VA system. They were giving shots when I was there so it was crowded. I spoke to the lady and she confirmed my info transferred. I told her I'll take any cancellation appts and she took my cell number. Less than 10 minutes later, she called my cell and said be there at 0830 tomorrow for the 1st shot. She said someone cx'd and I just happened to be there...timing is everything. I did learn the VA Dept has their own police dept. They were there as security with a VA police vehicle. Never knew the VA had a police force.

From: TD
22-Feb-21
Haven't even drawn tags for it yet......

From: trublucolo
22-Feb-21
Both moderna shots done due to the nature of of my job, 2nd was back on Feb.4. It doesn't make me immune, and If I contract it I can still pass it along. If I do catch the virus and it keeps me off a ventilator then I guess it will be worth it. Second dose put me down for a day like a lot of others.

From: TwoDogs@work
23-Feb-21
I had Covid last November. It took my strength for a month. I got my first shot on the 17th. I was told when I got the shot that my body would probably recognize the vaccine and would likely react more quickly and strongly. I developed a bad headache that afternoon. The next day I had bad body aches, chills, some nausea and just generally felt bad. Everything but the headache went away after a few hours and slowing got better over a coupe of days.. I am getting my second shot on March 15th. I will see how that goes.

From: JL
23-Feb-21
I did get the 1st Moderna shot early this morning at the VA clinic. Ten and a half hours later, the arm is a little sore and I was a little tired this afternoon, but that is it...so far. I took a little snooze and feel ok right now. Getting ready to go get some medicinal ice cream at DQ in a bit to sooth any current pain and mitigate any future pains. :-) If things don't go south tonight....it will all be good. Will report back tomorrow.

23-Feb-21
From the sounds of most who have gotten the shot, I about 99.9999% seem to be expecting the vaccination to be worse then the virus for well over 99% of the people who contracted Covid 19.

From: bowhunt
23-Feb-21
The messaging on the vaccine from Fauci has been very confusing lately. When all the "lockdowns" started it was just for a couple weeks, and to slow the spread. As the lockdowns continued our next glimmer of hope for returning to normal life was herd immunity, when enough Americans either got Covid or the vaccine. Back then he thought 65-70 percent needed to be vaccinated or already caught covid to to reach herd immunity.

The vaccines are created and start to be distributed. Within a week he is telling us we have to be worried about variants, but we always knew there would be variants. I remember him talking about it on TV. It is natural for virus to mutate as it goes through the population. Sometimes the variants may spread easier, but the mutated variants generally cause less severe illness. He also no longer speaks of the people that have had covid when talking about herd immunity. Every time I here him on TV now it is based off up to 90 percent of the population getting the vaccine(the number varies between 75-90), nothing about everyone that has caught covid.

A month or two back he said kids should be in school, teachers don't need to be vaccinated. That should be the "default posistion". The last week or so when I see him on TV he says its a very complicated subject and he doesn't have all the data yet.

A news anchor asked him if now that her parents got vaccinated, can they come visit the grandchildren. He said no that wouldn't be a good Idea. Also just because you got vaccinated, it doesn't mean you can start going out to restaurants and theaters.

In that same interview he mentioned he believed around July everyone that wanted the vaccine would be able to get it. In the end of the interview she asked when life could be normal again. He just kind of laughed. He said he still thought social distancing and masked would be required in 2022. If everyone that wants the vaccine got it why would we be wearing masks and social distancing still?

I was reading the information about vaccines on the CDC website, and this is all baffling to me. What I read there seems to contradict what he has been saying lately about how to live your life after being vaccinated. We need to get the vaccine so we don't get sick and spread the virus, but if you get the vaccine you can still get sick and spread the virus.

My wife is in health care so she got both vaccine shots over the last month. She just got sick for one day after the second shot. I'm all for getting it as soon as I can. Im not in a high risk group but have family that is. I would love for them and me to get it so we aren't worried about seeing each other.

Sorry for the long post, just really baffled after the TV interviews he has done the last week or two. Seem's as though he is saying that being vaccinated doesn't mean your life is normal again. You still have to mask up and socially distance. You can still catch virus and spread virus. If we were all vaccinated we could all still catch and spread virus then correct?

I'm not trying to stir the pot. I know there are several people with medical backgrounds that post on here. Just wondering if any of this makes sense. What he is saying on TV doesn't even seem to jive with the CDC website info about how vaccinations work.

From: Glunt@work
23-Feb-21
Fauci has been in DC since 1984. That should explain why he spends 1/2 his time contradicting himself.

From: Hackbow
24-Feb-21

Hackbow's Link
Never mind my previous stance. I am running to get the indoctrination inoculation now. Fauci's latest news makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about compliance. LOL

From: tundrajumper
24-Feb-21
My wife and I had both moderna shots with no problem after them.

From: Stringwacker
27-Feb-21
I had the second Moderna shot on Thursday morning. No problems until after bedtime that night when I woke up with a very high fever and severe joint/muscle pain. I had violent shivering to the point when I forced myself to get up to whiz.....I couldn't even hit the toilet:) I maintained fever, pain, and severe headache through the next day and it broke last night (soaked the bed sheets with sweat). It was far worse than I ever thought it to be. I couldn't make it to the other end of the house that first night for a thermometer but I was was so hot that night that I didn't even want to touch myself with my hands. I know that sounds odd but I felt as though my skin was on fire and couldn't even turn over in bed for a few hours. I felt somewhat better regarding the fever at daybreak the next morning and was able to get up and take a Tyenol....but still was 103 when I finally found the temp gauge later. Felt rough all Friday; but nothing like that first night. I wish I could have taken my temp that night at the peak as I'm sure I've never had that degree of fever.

I feel 85% back to normal this Saturday morning. Least this creates concern over some people, I should disclose that I'm immune compromised (which lead me to the decision to take the vaccine in the first place) Maybe that lead to the reaction I had. I'm just glad I didn't get 'real' Covid.

From: MQQSE
27-Feb-21
Wife and I both had Pfizer shots yesterday. Arm was a little sore for both of us in the evening.

We live in a very rural setting and there were many unfilled appointments at the sessions offered. I don’t think where we live that even 50% will get vaccinated for one personal reason or another. I’m sure our area is a bit of an anomaly though.

From: lewis
27-Feb-21
We got ours yesterday Moderna the first one no issues so far good luck Lewis

From: LBshooter
27-Feb-21
Got my first yesterday and took my 87 year old mother. When I got ther at the convention center the traffic was amazing, and I thought this is going to take awhile. Moderna was the shot and we are both fine, shoulder is a little sore but that's it. I want to give a huge shout out to the Illinois Nat guard, these guys are sooooo well organized that from the time we checked in until we had the shot was like 15/20 mins tops. These men and woman deserve all the praise in the world, they are true heroes and professionals, thanks to all of you who serve!!!!

From: kstout
28-Feb-21
I had both Pfizer vaccines. Got the second dose February 3rd. Had a slightly sore arm, but no other side effects.

28-Feb-21

DiRTY MiKE 's embedded Photo
DiRTY MiKE 's embedded Photo

From: krieger
28-Feb-21
For those that have had Covid, my question is why would you then get the experimental vaccine? Wouldn't getting the actual virus be better for your immune system? I don't get that part at all....

My wife tested positive 3 days ago, she was down for a week. Slept 20 hours a day. I can't believe I didn't get it from her, she is getting back to normal now, thank goodness. Dishes were starting to pile up....

From: Matt
28-Feb-21
"For those that have had Covid, my question is why would you then get the experimental vaccine? Wouldn't getting the actual virus be better for your immune system? I don't get that part at all....:

Getting the vaccine amplifies the immune response for those who have recoved from the virus and may provide more durable protection. Moreover, the purpose of the vaccine is to keep people from getting a severe form of the disease or dying from it, not to keep them from getting it per se (although it seems to do that as well).

If you are doing some research on this, you might also look up the medical definition of "experimental" to avoid misusing it in the future.

From: ahunter76
01-Mar-21
Me, Wife, Daughter in law & several family friends have had both. 2 people had slight side effects. So, we've done it & that's it..

From: Kevin Dill
01-Mar-21
My wife has been fully vaccinated, as have my mother and stepfather. I'm still just too young...for once in my adult life. I'm very happy for them, and I'm also happy to see them still take optional precautions like masks, distancing, hygiene and limiting social interactions. So I'm waiting on my number...so to speak...to be called. Congratulations to those here who have received the vaccine. Congrats to all of us who...so far...have survived.

From: Bob H in NH
01-Mar-21
For those that want it but are to young, check the medical category. Where I am, "obese" gets you in the door. Given the medical definition of obese, we both qualify. While we could stand to drop a few pounds, we ain't fat.

From: Glunt@work
01-Mar-21
I'm eligible due to my work but I'm relatively young as far as risk so no hurry. Someone who needs it more can have my spot. Would be interesting see if I have antibodies already.

From: Z Barebow
01-Mar-21
Due to my work, I am in essential worker (equal to grocery workers). But we were on call with local public health. On Wednesday we got the call they had extra vaccine. Got Moderna shot 1. Arm was sore and that was it.

From: Brian M.
01-Mar-21
I got my 2nd pfizer shot Sat. As a precaution, I took some Tylenol when I got home. No ill effects at all.

From: Jaquomo
01-Mar-21
Never took flu shots, rarely ever even get a cold. But after a recent diagnosis of a pulmonary condition, I'm getting the shots. First one tomorrow. COVID might not affect me much, or may kill me since it's a lung condition. I weighed the risks and made the choice.

From: Buffalo1
01-Mar-21

Buffalo1's Link
Found this article to be interesting regarding reaction to the 2nd shot

From: Kevin Dill
02-Mar-21
Received round #1 of the Moderna vaccine today. It's been a couple hours and I have no symptoms or soreness at injection site. The only side effects are the sun looks brighter and the sky is bluer. Maybe.

02-Mar-21
My wife had both her shots and other than a sore arm and mild fatigue, no issues. Judging from most posts, I must be an anomaly. I got my 1st shot a week ago (Moderna) and had most of the side effects that some generally experience with the 2nd shot. Other than a mildly sore arm, I had no issues when I went to bed. When I got up for my nightly whiz, my arm was pretty darn sore when I rolled over on it, and I also had a slight headache.. Next morning I didn't feel 100%, but was still able to do my workout. By noon I had a slight fever, felt like crap, and was tired enough I took a nap, which I never do. By that evening I was feeling better, and by the next morning all that remained was a tender arm. Can't say I'm looking forward to the 2nd shot, but I'd much rather deal with that than deal with the full effects of Covid.

From: Kevin Dill
03-Mar-21
18 hours post-injection and no general symptoms or issues. I can feel very minor tenderness in my arm, but that's it. Piece of cake.

From: casper
03-Mar-21
To all of those who are vaccinated what did it gain you? No longer need to wear a mask in public anymore? can you travel to Mexico or Canada hunting or fishing? Do you have to social distance? Can you visit loved ones in a hospital cause you got the vaccine? on and on and on you were part of one big Pharma experiment. Covid surviver 11 days of fever i will take the natural antibodies anyday over the shot.

03-Mar-21
I got nothing, just wanted to be 300....

:-)

From: Matt
03-Mar-21
"To all of those who are vaccinated what did it gain you? No longer need to wear a mask in public anymore? can you travel to Mexico or Canada hunting or fishing? Do you have to social distance? Can you visit loved ones in a hospital cause you got the vaccine? on and on and on you were part of one big Pharma experiment. Covid surviver 11 days of fever i will take the natural antibodies anyday over the shot."

The answers are out there if you take the opportunity to look for them.

Given all else you apparently don't know, are you aware that Trump got the vaccine in january - even though he already had COVID?Care to guess why that was?

From: bb
04-Mar-21
"To all of those who are vaccinated what did it gain you?" My gain was being a little less stupid.

From: Kevin Dill
04-Mar-21
"To all of those who are vaccinated what did it gain you?"

Antibodies....presumably at this point. I didn't get vaccinated for social benefit, or to clear a hurdle. I didn't get vaccinated so I can feel 'free' or ditch the mask. I got vaccinated simply to improve my odds of not sustaining a viral infection which just might threaten my overall health or even life. They don't give you a better warranty on life when you get the vaccine. You hope it works...think of a parachute.

My family and I come from backgrounds of education and employment in various medical sciences. We have strong beliefs in medical science and the advancements witnessed in the last several decades. I'm not advocating for that over anyone else's beliefs....just pointing out why I/we are all getting vaccinated. I personally have fairly significant risk factors. No spleen. History of severe respiratory infections. Pneumonia risk is elevated. I weigh 364 pounds.... ;-)

Sure, I could get some antibodies by getting the virus and surviving it. Very good chance that's what would've happened. I just prefer to (try to) keep the virus from storming the beach and finding it undefended. I personally prefer the option of the vaccine to hopefully head off a full-on viral invasion of my body. For the record, I think EVERYONE has the right to decide what's best for themselves. I don't judge people as right or wrong for deciding how to address the option of getting vaccinated.

From: midwest
04-Mar-21
"Covid surviver 11 days of fever i will take the natural antibodies anyday over the shot."

I would take the shot and 11 days of hunting somewhere instead of being sick.

From: BC
04-Mar-21
I’m up for my first shot tomorrow. It’s worth a sore arm in my opinion.

From: Rockbass
04-Mar-21
My 85 year old parents still have no word when they are able to get their first shots...but some of our worst criminals in Canada have received theirs!

From: krieger
04-Mar-21
"Experimental" applies to this vaccine, regardless of which way the data is spun. I hope it works out for folks...

It's going to be interesting if some people develop side effects and then find out they have NO recourse. Litigation will not be an option. If the " vaccine " is completely legit and safe, why did the Feds give the biotech companies that golden insurance umbrella??

Perhaps we need to move this line of thinking farther into society, bet rid of all the trial lawyers...Roundup claims will be the first to go. Mesothelioma?

From: 70lbdraw
04-Mar-21
With the way the Biden administration is handling things...how can you NOT trust it! I'm surprised at how many people will jump in without "accurate" data. I still haven't seen anything comprehensive about the mask efficiency, good or bad.

04-Mar-21
Mask don’t work. There’s plenty of data suggesting that. These Covid explosions have occurred under mask mandates.

People will say some folks aren’t wearing them. And blame those folks for the explosion of cases the last two months of the year. But, it begs to be answered why those who wore masks still got the Covid? I’d like to hear someone weigh in on it with a sincere attempt to suggest why besides my opinion.

I can’t testify to other places other then where I’ve been. But, it’s been “law” since the second week in November in mid Atlantic states. No gas, no grocery store, no commerce at all if you didn’t have a mask on. Yet, it exploded until cresting last month.

Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, etc.... will be blamed. Yet, all other viruses have decreased dramatically. Hmmm?

It’s a virus. Vaccine aside, unless you are immune to it, you are going to get it. One way or the other. Mask, no mask, etc... Unless you choose to lock away and never come out unless it dies out, or you get the vaccine, you are likely going to get it.

You can’t forget what the numbers say. 80% of those that get it, don’t even know they have it. By bowsite testimony, The vaccination seems to be causing more noticeable results for the vast majority then the virus does. Yet, we still have people calling others idiots for not getting inline for the shot. SMH.

Anyways, masks works so good, Faucci has even stated wearing two or three at the same time is better. That’s how good they work. Awesome.

Once again, sarcasm aside, I’m happy for those who have wanted one and gotten a vaccination. I hope those that haven’t, get theirs soon. And, I’ll drop out until another poster insinuates anything but his way of thinking is stupid.

Take care and God Bless men.

From: Will
04-Mar-21
Anything but my way of thinking is stupid.

:)

Just messin with you WV.

From: 70lbdraw
04-Mar-21
Unfortunately, thinking for yourself theses days is not considered PC. If you do, you must be a racist white supremacist. Hell, I'm a veteran, and apparently that makes me a domestic terrorist as well! I guess gullibility is the only thing that keeps us alive today.

04-Mar-21
I had to edit. Misunderstood my yankee buddy.

Willie, I agree. Except on Covid matters. :^)

From: bb
04-Mar-21
"If the " vaccine " is completely legit and safe, why did the Feds give the biotech companies that golden insurance umbrella??"

Kind of makes you wonder why the Folks who work at Pfizer feel it's safe enough for them to get the vaccine.

A couple of thoughts here, 95 and 94 % effective at preventing the virus is substantial. keep in mind this is a quick turn around, but remember they aren't inventing the wheel with this vaccine.

From: krieger
04-Mar-21
I hope they are being 100% open and honest about the testing, because there are a LOT of folks blindly depending on them, being all spun up for a year now that they WILL DIE without a vaccine.... This was just from 2016. Pfizer got hammered and settled ....what was the issue ?? Faking tests and hiding negative findings on pharmaceuticals. I've heard a few podcasts on exactly how Pzifer came up with the " 90% effective" stat, and it's a huge spin on data, IMO. It's a free country and I personally don't care who does what, but I don't want to see folks make emotional based impulse decisions , on less than transparent data, that they may regret later.

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Pfizer Inc PFE.N on Tuesday said it has reached a $486 million settlement of litigation accusing it of causing big losses for shareholders by concealing safety risks associated with its Celebrex and Bextra pain-relieving drugs.

" Believe the science" well I'm a huge believer, but on the occasion I've been around a TV, I've noticed countless commercials from law firms, regarding pharmaceuticals. What was a " scientific breakthrough " last year, is a class action suit this year... the owner of my old bow shop got on Phen-fen( sp?) to loose weight, in the 90's. Worked awesome, until it almost killed him. Use some discretion, hat's all I'm saying. Unintended consequences abound.

From: Will
04-Mar-21
Nuttin but love mountaineer. Keep well down there as spring, springs!

From: Matt
04-Mar-21
'Experimental" applies to this vaccine,...'

An FDA-approved drug being used for its stated indication is by definition not experimental.

From: MathewsMan
04-Mar-21
My wife and I Just got called down and given the first Moderna shot, second shot in 4 weeks. Probably poor timing as they are receiving the J&J single shots here in Alaska next week. Pretty much anyone over 16 is eligible now that more than half of the State’s already received the immunizations.

From: BSBD
04-Mar-21
I lined up with the rest of the sheep today and got my first dose of Pfizer. No side effects whatsoever. I never get the flu shot and haven’t had the flu since I was a kid but at 55 I figure long term effects are negligible for me. Getting Covid may or not be worse but decided my chances are better with the vaccine. My father in law had polio as a kid and it permanently disabled him especially later in life. I’m sure he wished he would have had the polio vaccine when he was young.

From: KSflatlander
05-Mar-21

KSflatlander's Link
Masks absolutely positively DO work. The objective is to reduce the risk of transmission of Covid. They DO NOT eliminate it. Social distancing and washing hands also reduce risk. Do all three and the risks are reduced further.

The social family gatherings over the holidays contributed to the spike in covid likely because people used precautionary measures like masks, hand washing, distancing, and other risk reduction measures (air filtration on planes) to REDUCE risk while traveling. They likely let their guard down while they were hanging out at grandma’s for a few days. Lastly, did you ever stop to think the “flu” may not be as contagious or maybe has a shorter self life outside the body than Covid? There are many many scientific reasons why the flu reduction was greater than Covid. SMH.

I think some confuse belief and anecdotal observations with scientific facts. From their perspective, the universe is revolving around them in WV. Because they see the stars, sun, and moon move across the sky they...themselves must be standing still. However, their observations do not supersede scientific fact SMH.

From: bb
05-Mar-21
" Believe the science"" well I'm a huge believer, but on the occasion I've been around a TV, I've noticed countless commercials from law firms, regarding pharmaceuticals. What was a " scientific breakthrough " last year, is a class action suit this year." My wife has spent most of her adult life working in the Pharmaceutical industry, with multiple large companies, Pfizer being one of them. She works in Regulatory compliance. Her team ensures that clinical trials are being done and data collected are in compliance with the FDA Regs. They audit the trials that are being conducted all over the world. I don't know enough about the litigation you cited to be able to comment directly to it, but knowing a little bit about how the compliance end works, the complaint would have to be basically a cover up and conspiracy that would involve a great many people. I suppose it could happen but I find it very unlikely. I'm sure I don't have to remind you that the ads you are citing about law suits and pharmaceuticals have become a cottage industry. They hope for a settlement, knowing full well that it's generally cheaper than a defense. It's hard to know in a settlement whether there was validity to the complaint in the first place. For those that don't believe in getting vaccinated, I take it you were never vaccinated against Polio, Smallpox, etc? If not, you can thank all the people that did get vaccinated for you to be able to skip that with a reasonable degree of faith that you won't get those diseases. I also imagine you don't travel to places where you could contract yellow fever or any number of tropical diseases that people routinely get vaccinated for to prevent if they do travel to those areas, knowing that there is a very good chance you will be infected if you travel there? I feel it's within a persons right to not get vaccinated if they choose not to. However I also believe it's in peoples rights to exclude you from taking part in activities, programs and events because of that decision.

From: krieger
05-Mar-21
I hear you bb, the difference is, this " shot " is NOT a vaccine by definition. It does NOT act in the same way as previous vaccines for specific viruses. It DOESN'T provide for reduced transmission upon inoculation , for example, .......and the most important phase, animal testing was bypassed , due to the urgency for any hope of an agent, in the interest of time...please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm hopeful it's safe and works, but my confidence in bureaucracies and deep state corporate cronyism, is not at the level of others, it seems.

This whole thing just reminds me of Ms Pelosi's passing of the ObamaCare act. " We need to pass the bill to see WHAT's IN the bill".....doesn't pass my smell test, but I've been wrong before.

From: Olink
05-Mar-21
The peeps here in PA in the 1A group (65 and older, or if you are a smoker) are having an extremely hard time finding a place that is scheduling to give vaccines - IF YOU ARE IN A RED COUNTY. Blue counties seem to have a lot more available vaccines. Vaccine distribution in PA is a cluster.

From: Beav
05-Mar-21
I had my first shot last week. I was sicker than hell for two days and pretty much felt as bad as my worst days when I had Covid in November. I have heard from many the second shot is worse for symptoms so I may not get the second shot.

From: bb
05-Mar-21
"for example, .......and the most important phase, animal testing was bypassed , due to the urgency for any hope of an agent, in the interest of time...please correct me if I'm wrong." You're right that animal testing wasn't done, but they knew what they had. This type of vaccine although relatively new, has been used before so, there wasn't a need for testing in animals, that's generally something that's used if they start from scratch, discovering the compound etc. There is not as much mystery behind this vaccine as you would suppose given the fast track. I think that's where the doubt, fear and mis-understanding comes from. This was filed under an emergency request which automatically puts it into an experimental category. That means the FDA has not done the typical review for a year or more of the data. They review the data at hand for safety in the trials and efficacy. Both were good so they approve it. There is definitely a leap of faith, but for the companies that specialize in vaccines, this is not a big leap of faith, they pretty much know what they have. To that extent, all vaccines or drugs in general are a leap of faith. It's a risk/reward proposition. There are always adverse events with any drug. The question is how bad and how often. This in the trials has apparently proven to be as safe as you can make it. If you were injecting distilled water, there is always going to be someone display an adverse event that's just the way it is. For those that have or are prone to respiratory issues, especially when getting sick, this virus is no joke. You definitely don't want to get it and hope for the best.

From: Will
05-Mar-21
mRNA vaccines ARE vaccines. It's not gene editing, gene engineering or some other issue the Antivax-pseudoscience-quacknation movement wants people to believe.

I was done with this thread but I got triggered, sorry.

bb (I think it was) above noted the challenge of covering a massive conspiracy up. There is literally a math based tool to estimate that, which works on the number of people involved. This is literally a tool that was researched and validated! (Grimes Model) The more people involved, the less time until "the truth" comes out. So, if you are worried that there is a massive conspiracy behind these VACCINES, no worries, given the thousands of people involved in their production and testing to this point, coupled with about 15-20 years in the pipeline (originally for the original SARS and MERS virus's as well as to deliver various cancer treatment agents) the grand conspiracy would be outed. It's not. Because there isnt one.

Then again, there is also the reality that with millions of people having been given the vaccines, safety has actually been found to be BETTER than what the already very safe clinical trial data looked like from last year... So, if a clinical trial with 20-40,000 participants didnt create enough statistical power, the ongoing data collection based evidence should help.

KS, agreed.

Ok, now I'm out, for real.

05-Mar-21
I guess some are so focused they can’t see past the end of their nose. That or, they are reflecting on another opportunity to defend their sons sexual choices.

Eitherway, it’s a pretty common denominator that someone at those gatherings already had Covid. And, it’s a pretty common denominator that mask mandates were prior to this gatherings. Meaning all the masks did nothing to prevent their family from getting it. Whether they wore masks at those gatherings are irrelevant. They were very likely wearing them before those holidays when the infected visited family.

The world doesn’t revolve around WV. That’s my whole point. And, unless internet information is lying, everyone is experiencing a pretty tight mandate. Including masks well before those holidays.

We can go on implying there is a reason masks have yet to stop the spread. Or, we could realize the vaccine is likely the biggest culprit in that affect.

Life is going to continue for blue collar America whether government wants it to or not. As stated before, no one questions the effectiveness of social distancing and good hygiene. And, no one is going to loose possessions to make their silly neighbor feel better because we’ve just give up and stayed home.

From: Rut Nut
05-Mar-21
I’m a healthcare worker that works on a nursing home floor, so I got my vaccine. It was not mandatory, but it allows me to skip the weekly COVID test that non-vaccinated nursing home workers MUST get! So I got my anti-body test a couple weeks ago and the results show I have a HIGH level of antibodies. I must get tested(anti-bodies) again in 2 months.

If I did not work on the nursing home, I probably would not have gotten the vaccine since I am under 65, in good health, a non-smoker and no respiratory issues.

From: drycreek
05-Mar-21
Well, I’m due to get my first shot Monday. I hem-hawed around for a month or so before I decided to go ahead with it. I’m somewhat encouraged by Rut Nut’s post about his high level of antibodies. That would be handy.......

From: MarkU
05-Mar-21
Could have gotten the J & J tomorrow, but called back too late and the slots were filled, but am on the schedule for next Wed. for one of the others.

From: 70lbdraw
05-Mar-21
"Masks absolutely positively DO work."

Until someone can publish provable test results similar to that of a bullet proof vest...I'm still skeptical...

From: bb
05-Mar-21
I don't know whether they work or don't work. I assume they can't hurt. My brother in law who is a doctor made the comment that trying to stop the virus with the masks is like trying to keep mosquitos out of your house with chain link fencing.

Could be why Fauci is now suggesting 3 or 4 masks at once, trying to reduce the size to say Chicken wire?

From: Kevin Dill
05-Mar-21
Mark....wear a muscle shirt under your flannel. Give them something to ogle!

From: KSflatlander
05-Mar-21
Nah Justin. Me and my son figured it out together. All is good.

FYI- your supposed to wear a mask on your upper orphis. Maybe that’s your problem. You got them confused with your lower orphis. It happens to the best of us.

It’s a reduction of risk...genius. How many would have contracted the virus without mask?

Contemplate that while your mowing yards...I mean conducting forestry science.

From: bigtines
05-Mar-21
Has anyone heard that the vaccine is made up of cells from long ago aborted fetuses? Just some stuff I've read on the net.

From: MarkU
05-Mar-21
Kevin, temps have been above freezing here for three days, no one wears shirts in this weather.

Being in Idaho, fish and game was called in help out with administering shots. Reports of people forced to run across a parking lot and getting hit by a dart gun, others lured into a culvert and getting hit with a syringe on a ten foot pole are rampant. No wonder the grizzly bears around here are so trap shy.

When I get there Wed., if I see a helicopter with a canon net on the skid, I'll turn around.

From: Matt
05-Mar-21
"It DOESN'T provide for reduced transmission upon inoculation "

Again, that is simply not true. The clinical trails for vaccine approval were not designed to test for that so some people who do not understand that take it to mean they do not, but data from Israel is demonstrating otherwise. Strongly.

This topic sheds light on why we are where we are as a country. Too many people willing to speak authoritatively about things that are simply not true.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/03/01/dr-scott-gottlieb-says-data-shows-covid-vaccines-reduces-transmission.html

From: Matt
05-Mar-21
"Eitherway, it’s a pretty common denominator that someone at those gatherings already had Covid. And, it’s a pretty common denominator that mask mandates were prior to this gatherings. Meaning all the masks did nothing to prevent their family from getting it. Whether they wore masks at those gatherings are irrelevant. They were very likely wearing them before those holidays when the infected visited family."

That is like saying speed is never a contributing factor in traffic deaths because we have speed limits.

05-Mar-21
I am also a licensed general contractor. I build things too. You left that one out in the three hours it took you to think of it and edit it into your post.

Matt, it’s only that way if you try to make it that way. We’ve had this discussion before. Covid wasn’t hiding in the turkey. Awaiting its chance to affect those not wearing masks. Somebody had to have it if the families enjoying the holidays are to be blamed for the increase in Covid cases. That’s about as Simple to understand as it gets.

From: Matt
05-Mar-21
"Matt, it’s only that way if you try to make it that way. We’ve had this discussion before. Covid wasn’t hiding in the turkey. Awaiting its chance to affect those not wearing masks. Somebody had to have it if the families enjoying the holidays are to be blamed for the increase in Covid cases. That’s about as Simple to understand as it gets."

No. Suggesting that masks do not work because there is a mask mandate and that has not stopped the spread of COVID is stupid, as it assumes that people have strictly followed said mask mandate. As much as I dislike the nut s@cks that run around the internet citing logical fallacies as a rebuttal to arguments, that is clear an ad hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. Which is just a fancy Latin description for people who are not clever enough to be able to correctly attribute cause.

There's an old joke about an experiment on a frog. The scientist claps loudly to make the frog jump and then measures the distance. After each jump, the scientist cuts off a leg and the distance of each of the frog's successive jumps decreases. After the scientist cuts off the 4th leg and claps, the frog does not jump. The scientist concludes that cutting off the 4th leg has rendered the frog deaf.

06-Mar-21
I really don’t know what to tell you. As stated before, many times, there is no where in this part of the country you can participate in daily activities, outside your home, that masks aren’t required to enter any building or to be in any public place.

That has been the “law”. Since the first of November. For all mid Atlantic states. You either assume people aren’t following the law or, are setting on enough supplies to prevent having to interact with society in the last 5 months. That’s pretty far fetched.

I’ll also add that Logical fallacies apply to those that regurgitate mindless protocol when results suggest they may not be effective. Or, even work. But, they just keep on saying it. Like it’s fact. Because someone assumed it was the case way back.

And, It sounds like your scientist in the analogy might have the last name of Faucci. If one won’t work, wear two. Or three.

FWIW, if you’d spend an ounce of the time actually listening to people, you might could remember what’s been said about their beliefs concerning masks. Where the blame lies in their ineffectiveness. But, it’s more your style to bounce from thread to thread picking apart posts, inserting witty remarks in contrast of meaning, and smirk from the safety of your computer.

Finally. Nut sack? You had to be looking in the mirror when you typed that.

From: KSflatlander
06-Mar-21
The logic is unbelievable. Your conclusion is that a communicable contagious diseases doesn’t spread any easier with mass gatherings. Simply genius. In addition, you assume all viruses are equally transmittable.

Your logic is missing a control group. How much would Covid spread without masks? There is peer reviewed data out there if you care to read. But yes, proceed with your Internet samples lmao. Again, your perceived observations supersede medical science. Arrogance defined.

What’s next? Spontaneous generation? No moon landing? Flat earth? Zeno's paradox? Eventually, the next time you target practice the arrow will never reach the target. SMH.

From: TEmbry
06-Mar-21
I’ll be getting my shot Monday. Looking forward to getting to see my nursing home coworkers and patients face to face for the first time in over a year!

From: Jeff Holchin
06-Mar-21
Well I was on the fence about getting the shot, but if MarkU is gonna get the shot, guess I will too. Plus, I really want to hunt AK moose this fall....

From: petedrummond
06-Mar-21
Before you get an untested shot get a cheap antibody test to see if you already have antibodies since many people have had covid with few symptoms or misdiagnosed as a cold or something else. I have very high antibodies according to my test so no shot for me. I think mine was 100 bux paid by medicare.

From: Kevin Dill
06-Mar-21
I asked a friend who is also a retired D.O. how I could really know if the vaccine worked for me. He said his best recommendation is to check my resting pulse and BP.....in exactly one year. If I have either, I can presume the vaccine did its job.

From: BC
06-Mar-21
Got my first shot yesterday. Today my arm is sore but other than that, feel fine. Round two in three weeks. Glad to get it.

From: Grey Ghost
06-Mar-21

Grey Ghost's Link
Here are dozens of scholarly articles, some peer reviewed and others not, that discuss the efficacy of wearing masks to prevent the spread of viruses.

But, I know Justin won't read any of them, because he already has all the answers, and he'll gladly share them with you, over and over and over, ad nauseam.

Matt

From: 70lbdraw
06-Mar-21
"How much would Covid spread without masks? There is peer reviewed data out there if you care to read."

So who is going to ensure that the Biden-approved mass migration of illegal aliens is all masked up as they invade our Southern border? How about Antifa, BLM rioters...are they also immune as they stampede in to loot BestBuy?

Oh wait, come to think of it, I remember reading an article where Faucci claimed COVID only spreads during joyous occasions.

Back when I was in school, our science books didn't incorporate liberal logic.

This is playing out more like a religion than a pandemic!

From: Will
06-Mar-21

Will's Link
One more nice one for you GG, noting the pretty epic deficiencies in the approach of many: https://arxiv.org/abs/2102.04882

Not a panacea, but work. That said, and this is a broad statement NOT reflective of this thread... Just a broad observation... there is a definite love for things that do not work (HCQ, Ivermectin, etc) vs things that do (masks, distance, hygiene, dexamethasone, monoclonal antibodies, VACCINES, etc)

06-Mar-21
Yep, I’ve touched my nose and mouth about 200 times this morning alone. But, I guess all the people who argue their effectiveness hasn’t or don’t during an average day.

Liberal logic is no different then liberal policy. It has no account for common life. Only paper testimony. But, you got nutsacks running around the internet spreading it as the gospel. That’s the definition of stupid as the nutsack from California pointed out.

From: Grey Ghost
06-Mar-21
Yup, anything Justin disagrees with is "liberal logic". Got it.

Did you bother reading any of the dozens of articles I posted? I didn't think so, because the vast majority of them don't support your preconceived biases.

Matt

From: Glunt@work
06-Mar-21
HQC is back to not working? Whoever this "Peer" guy is reviewing the science can't seem to agree with himself.

From: Mule Power
06-Mar-21
This is still a thread? Cabin fever must be fueling the fire.

Bottom line.... it’s your choice. The seriousness of it means nobody should be judging others for their decision. And the fact is that we don’t have the virus.... viruseS figured out and barely know shit about the vaccine. So speculate all you want we are in uncharted territory. AND we’ll be at a whole other level of the situation with the bug and the vax by the end of summer so calm down.

From: Scoot
06-Mar-21
"...because he already has all the answers, and he'll gladly share them with you, over and over and over, ad nauseam."

The irony of who actually said the quote above is just too good!

From: yeager
06-Mar-21
My wife and I got our first shot on February 18 and scheduled for the second on March 18. Have hunting trips planned for South Africa in July, and then a friend and I are hopefully heading to Greenland in September for musk ox and caribou.

From: Basil
06-Mar-21
Got my 1st shot this morning. Happy to get it due to a cancellation. I’m 59 1/2 but my doc got me on a list due to risk factors. I’ve been out of work for about 6 weeks with non Covid related lung issues. With my condition Covid may have been the kiss of death.

From: Jeff Holchin
06-Mar-21
Well I was on the fence about getting the shot, but if MarkU is gonna get the shot, guess I will too. Plus, I really want to hunt AK moose this fall....

From: DanaC
06-Mar-21

DanaC's embedded Photo
DanaC's embedded Photo

From: Glunt@work
07-Mar-21
Any kids who's mom has harped on them to cover when they sneeze is about as good a source on masking as the experts like Fauci explaining droplets. How effective are mask mandates? Pro maskers seem to think it's a major deal like maybe reducing spread by 25%-50%. The CDC's new study struggles to show positive effects bigger than their margin of error in the stats. The percentage can be counted one one hand by a guy who fought with a wood chipper and lost.

07-Mar-21
That’s just logical fallacy Glunt.

From: Dale06
07-Mar-21
Got the “one shot” Johnson and Johnson shot 24 hours ago. So far, zero side effects.

From: KSflatlander
07-Mar-21
Glunt- please post the study by the CDC you are referencing.

From: bowhunt
07-Mar-21

bowhunt's Link
Guessing this is the study he is referencing.

From: KSflatlander
07-Mar-21
I guess I don’t draw the same conclusions. It says masks statically significantly reduce spread?

From: elkmtngear
07-Mar-21
"Community mitigation policies, such as state-issued mask mandates and prohibition of on-premises restaurant dining, have the potential to slow the spread of COVID-19, especially if implemented with other public health strategies"

Taken from the final lines of the study. Doesn't sound like an absolute to me...coughing/sneezing into your elbow also "has the potential" to slow the spread of Covid 19

From: Glunt@work
07-Mar-21

Glunt@work's embedded Photo
Glunt@work's embedded Photo
I guess "significant" isn't the the adverb I would use but I'm no statistician or a health expert.

From: KSflatlander
07-Mar-21
“Mask mandates were associated with statistically significant decreases in county-level daily COVID-19 case and death growth rates within 20 days of implementation. Allowing on-premises restaurant dining was associated with increases in county-level case and death growth rates within 41–80 days after reopen- ing. State mask mandates and prohibiting on-premises dining at restaurants help limit potential exposure to SARS-CoV-2, reducing community transmission of COVID-19.”

Quote from the study.

Statistically significant means the model indicates the study is valid. 2% of 500,000 is 10,000 people that may have survived. That’s significant in my book especially if 1 of the 10,000 is someone I care about. That does not account for the additional spread by the infected 2% either. It grows exponentially with subsequent transmissions.

Thanks for the heads up. Interesting study. This study like many others prove masks do reduce the risk of transmission of Covid. Added with social distancing and hygiene the reduction can be much bigger.

With that said, I tired of Covid just like everyone else. Bring on the vaccines so we can open up the country. There is no other long term solution.

From: Glunt@work
07-Mar-21
An effective vaccine is the solution to Covid. We have tied opening up the country to it, but that was a choice. The extent we shut down wasn't justified in my view and thats accepting all the numbers. There is a long list of "unneccessary" or inconvenient things we could mandate people do, or could no longer do, that would save 10,000 lives a year. We balance risk with freedom, quality of life and prosperity all the time.

From: Jackaroo
07-Mar-21
It’s as stupid an argument as global warming because you can find a counter argument for either side. The sad truth is the hand wringers run the world now.

From: SteveB
08-Mar-21
Just go with your gut and don’t act “holier than thou” about it either way. For me, I originally said no way, then after watching a very close loved one die from it, and a very close 60 year friend who is a marathon bicyclist get it in late November and still fighting it after 4 trips to hospital and twice in ICU and still not out of the woods over 3 months later, I took it. Second dose tomorrow. I figured at my age (65) and being a diabetic, I’d roll the dice and go for it. The vaccine is a small risk same as getting seriously ill from the virus is a small risk, but complications from both could and will happen. If I were younger I’d have passed, but like the odds at my age.

From: Scoot
08-Mar-21
Glunt, the use of the term "significant" is a confusing one. In research there is more tha one kind of "significant". What the study shows is that there is a "statistically significant" change in COVID death rates. What you are saying, as I understand it, is that the difference is not "clinically significant". When you get a very large sample size you have a lot of statistical power and are better able to identify smaller differences/changes. It's the interpretation of these changes that becomes more subjective.

When it comes to public policy changing an outcome like death rate related to a disease, the percentage changes indicated in this article are, in my opinion, quite meaningful. You're not going to get a 30% change for a policy like this and you have to think Bayesian to appreciate the impact of it. An almost 2% change in death rate related to COVID across millions and millions of people-- that's a big deal.

From: Rut Nut
08-Mar-21
We could “significantly” reduce the death rate by car accidents if we just banned all vehicular travel! ;-)

From: Glunt@work
08-Mar-21
My point was that mask mandates are being pushed as if they are much more effective than they are. People are getting in fist fights over them in stores. I'm guessing they have formed a belief that masks are very effective.

I also see a huge "cost" associated with them that many don't. I believe creating the mandates by fiat is an overstep of government power and I believe that people being forced to wear masks is dehumanizing and "significantly" (more than 2%) detracts from our quality if life.

It wasn't long ago that forcing women to cover their face in public was considered outrageous by many.

From: KSflatlander
08-Mar-21
The fist fights start when someone thinks they are above the public health law or don’t want to comply with company rules on private property.

If you don’t like it then don’t shop there.

From: Scoot
08-Mar-21
Rut- I agree and I also agree with your point.

Glunt, I agree. I wasn't trying to dispute you in any way. I was just trying to make sense of your interpretation of the article. I'm a researcher by training, so that's the language I speak on a daily basis. ...and for the record, I agree with you. Governmental overreach is a very real thing!

There are two sides to the masking piece of this- it's overreach vs. it's not a big deal to cover up and protect people. In the end, people's beliefs about the issue come, in large part, down to how ok they are with the government futzing with their lives. Relatedly, it is obviously a conservative vs. liberal issue (i.e., "leave me the hell alone and let me make my own decisions" vs. "take care of me").

From: midwest
08-Mar-21
Today is the one year anniversary of Dr. Fauci on 60 Minutes telling everyone not to wear masks. ;-)

From: bowhunt
08-Mar-21
Don't worry he lied about that for the greater good!

Just like he had to lie about what level of the population would need to be vaccinated to reach herd immunity. He had to start out saying 60 percent and work his way up to 90 percent over time. The American people weren't ready to hear 90 percent right out of the gate.

We are so lucky to have someone so high up in our government that knows which "science" we are ready to know.

Imagine what could happen if he just told the truth! :)

From: elkmtngear
08-Mar-21
Per the CDC Today: No masks or social distancing required, if you have had the vaccine.

No mention of those who have already had the Kung Flu (healthy Immune systems are just a "Conspiracy Theory" these days) ...typical !

From: Matt
08-Mar-21
"Relatedly, it is obviously a conservative vs. liberal issue (i.e., "leave me the hell alone and let me make my own decisions" vs. "take care of me")."

Alternate interpretation, "I believe in science" vs "I feel my political beliefs provide me adequate protection against a virus."

Masks work. Mask mandates, not as well because...see the latter above.

From: KsRancher
08-Mar-21
I am on the list with our county health department. At the end of last week there were 990 people on the list and they were vaccinating around 100 per week.

From: KsRancher
08-Mar-21
Compare the death rate vs infection rate vs total population in California and Florida, then make your conclusion about mask.

From: Jackaroo
08-Mar-21
A healthy person under 65 with no mask is safer than a fat person over 50 with a mask

From: txhunter58
09-Mar-21
Got my first vaccine last week. Moderna. Might have preferred the J&J, but tired of waiting.

If masks help, and I believe they do, they would not work letting everyone decide themselves what they want to do. Because if they do work, its not because the mask you are wearing protects you. Let me repeat that: THE MASK YOU ARE WEARING DOESN'T PROTECT YOU. No one is saying that. The mask you are wearing protects other people if YOU are shedding virus.

It is certainly not scientific, but I have had 5 people in my business come down with Covid, all contracted somewhere else. We employ 30 people and we all wear masks all day and we have had ZERO transmission between coworkers. My niece went to a church get together of 9 women, and they didn't wear masks. No women were showing signs at the time of the get together or for 2 days after that. All 9 women came down with it.

As far as getting the vaccine means you don't have to wear a mask... That is now the recommendation IF you are around other people who have had the vaccine or the disease. Not if you are going out in the general population

From: Bowbender
09-Mar-21

Bowbender's Link
"Per the CDC Today: No masks or social distancing required, if you have had the vaccine."

"According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), a person who is vaccinated against COVID-19 can still be infected with or “carry” the virus that causes COVID-19 while not feeling sick or having symptoms. Experts call this “asymptomatic infection.”

"Alternate interpretation, "I believe in science" vs "I feel my political beliefs provide me adequate protection against a virus."

Which science? The science that says if you're vaccinated you're good to go with no mask or social distancing or the science that says you're still a carrier and should wear a mask and distance?

From the link: "However, the trials did not measure whether a person who is vaccinated is less likely to spread the virus to someone else."

That's the issue with the accelerated rollout. No long term efficacy studies, No long term clinicals. THAT is my issue with the vaccine. And decisions are being made as though this has undergone the typical 5-10 year study with mutliple groups, long term side effects, actual efficacy of the vaccine. Is it like 90%, or more around 40-50% as with the myriad of other flu vaccines. Add on top contradictory information from the CDC and it's no wonder there is skepticism and distrust.

Massive innoculation sites with ZERO oversight. How can there be? Gonna track via ID? Massive HIPPA violations. Enrolling every Tom, DIck and Mary off the street to administer vaccines? Ya, phuc dat.

I'd like to think it's about health and safety. And not how compliant and easily controlled the masses are when faced with the biggest global crisis man has known, other than climate change.

From: Scoot
09-Mar-21
I always find it interesting that people think you can form an opinion based on science and that opinion should be crystal clear at that point. Science is both imperfect and iterative. That said, it's a hell of a lot better source of information than what most people actually choose to use. ...and... it changes over time! What was known about COVID one year ago is very different than what is known now.

From: Bowbender
09-Mar-21
Really Scoot,

The CDC within several days has stated both that if you get the vaccine you don't need to distance or wear a mask AND you can still be a carrier and should still where a mask and distance. SMFH..... Must be that "imperfect" science. So which is it, opinion or fact that the CDC issued. Or can I form an educated opinion on contradictory statements from the government entity overseeing this shit-show.

09-Mar-21
Do what the government tells you too. They care about you.. Just like cows farting, cause global warming..I bet if you locked yourself in a garage with a couple of cows, you would die from lack of oxygen. LoL...So save the planet, no more steaks, and get the shot cause they never tell lies. :<)

From: elkmtngear
09-Mar-21
"What was known about COVID one year ago is very different than what is known now".

Actually, it seems that we've come "full circle", on much of it.

Examples: Kids don't carry enough of a viral load to be vectors, transmission by surfaces is extremely rare, transmission by asymptomatic patients is extremely rare.

Same stuff they were telling us a Year ago (basically, knowledge acquired from other known Covid type viruses).

Strangely, talking points and "official statements" from the WHO and CDC, seemed to undergo fluctuations over the last Year, based on the Political Climate.

From: Scoot
09-Mar-21
"The CDC within several days has stated both that if you get the vaccine you don't need to distance or wear a mask AND you can still be a carrier and should still where a mask and distance."

Bowbender, I wasn't speaking to a "split decision" the CDC might have offered. If they are speaking out of both sides of their mouth that doesn't discount what I said. Science is, in fact, imperfect and iterative. Feel free to disagree with that if you want, but you will be wrong if you do. What the CDC did is really unrelated to what I said. The CDC decides policy and the people who decide that policy can obviously use it however they see fit. Just because they purport to use science to direct their decision making doesn't mean they won't make stupid decisions and contradict themselves (as you point out). Science is imperfect, but policy makers with political agendas are much more imperfecter! ;)

From: KSflatlander
09-Mar-21
What exactly did the CDC say? I thought they said no masks if you were vaccinated and with others that were vaccinated or around children? I understand they still recommend mask if your vaccinated and around other adults that were not.

I don’t see the contradiction?

From: JayZ
09-Mar-21

JayZ's Link
Does my grandma count as a Covid death? She didn't contract the virus, but her death was accelerated by the mental and physical toll placed on her because the assisted living facility basically locked the residents in there rooms. No one was allowed to visit for more than 6 months.

I think the lockdowns are total BS. If you compare California with some of the strictest lockdowns to Florida who was relatively open during this whole thing:

Florida: 8.975% of the population has gotten Covid with a death rate of 0.146% California: 9.098% of the population has gotten Covid with a death rate of 0.137%.

Wonder what percentage of people in California had there lives destroyed by the reaction to the virus?

They locked my grandma up to save her from Covid but really ended up killing her. But the media doesn't want to talk about that narrative.

From: Matt
09-Mar-21
"Per the CDC Today: No masks or social distancing required, if you have had the vaccine." "According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), a person who is vaccinated against COVID-19 can still be infected with or “carry” the virus that causes COVID-19 while not feeling sick or having symptoms. Experts call this “asymptomatic infection.”

Those comments only seem contradictory because they are either misquoted or actual quotes which have been truncated in a way that changes their meanings.

The CDC stated that people who are fully vaccinated can be maskless and not socially distanced from other vaccinated people or with unvaccinated people who are not high risk.

They then suggest wearing a mask when in public -where the vaccinated could encounter high risk people.

With the context added back in, can you share how you think those statements ate contradictory?

09-Mar-21
Scoot, I agree about the science of things ever changing. That’s what makes sone people who quote science as the gospel, look so irrational.

I have a friend who’s dad is dying. He has pneumonia in his right lung, a UTI, an infection in his heart, and an aortic valve that’s leaking. He’s been in the hospital for 8 days. The doctors called his family today and told him that he was going to die. That he was still awake and that they had better come see him while he was.

The man has been married 61 years to the same women, they raised three kids, have 4 grandkids, he’s a Korean vet, and was as tough a human God ever put on this earth. But, he’s basically died alone due to Covid restrictions. And, instead of spending the few days he had left with his loved ones, he’s spent it in a hospital surrounded by strangers. And, yes he is Covid negative.

I keep reading all this BS about saving other people. I set with my wife for 10 days, in the same house, maskless, cooking, cleaning, sleeping with her while I had Covid. She never got it. I know many others just like that.

The point I’m making is the internet is full of people that want to preach the science that Faucci preaches. Yet, make smart guy comments about other people who choose to believe what other professionals are saying. And, what they’ve experienced. As if to imply they are beneath them. They keep posting all the “science”, then make excuses for it when it changes.

It’s just stupid. This virus is going to kill more people. Not one thing I do is going to change that. Wearing a mask isn’t going to stop you from transmitting it unless you are a paraplegic with no arms or hands. Not acknowledging the fact that people infect others by touching that mask, then transmitting it that way, is the most defined example of naive and dumb as you could ever find. But, keep telling everyone about your science. That’ll change things.

From: keepemsharp
09-Mar-21
Second one today, no problem.

From: White Falcon
09-Mar-21
Both, last one 2 wks. ago.

From: MathewsMan
09-Mar-21
I was fairly ill after my first Moderna shot last week. It was not like how bad it was in December when I had Covid, but a small representation of it for about 2 days. My PCR showed high antibodies still the week before I was called to get my 1st shot. I think that Alaska is getting a decent amount of the Johnson & Johnson single dose vaccine this week that many people canceled their appointments and to use the thawed vaccine vials they scrambled to get people in.

I am scheduled for my 2nd dose April 1st which I will do to get my Vaccination proof as I’m flying a lot and traveling across Canada and out of Country it’s going to be easier with my proof of having both had this and been vaccinated.

From: Kevin Dill
09-Mar-21
My daughter was vaccinated yesterday with the Pfizer product. Had a minor headache last evening and a bit of arm soreness....otherwise a piece of cake. She’s very happy and I am too.

From: Matt
09-Mar-21

Matt's Link
"Not acknowledging the fact that people infect others by touching that mask, then transmitting it that way, is the most defined example of naive and dumb as you could ever find. But, keep telling everyone about your science. That’ll change things."

People who continue with the notion that people communicate the virus through touching contaminated surfaces is one of "the most defined example of naive and dumb as you could ever find."

From the linked article: "But Goldman, a microbiologist at Rutgers New Jersey Medical School in Newark, decided to take a closer look at the evidence around fomites. What he found was that there was little to support the idea that SARS-CoV-2 passes from one person to another through contaminated surfaces. He wrote a pointed commentary for The Lancet Infectious Diseases in July, arguing that surfaces presented relatively little risk of transmitting the virus2. His conviction has only strengthened since then, and Goldman has long since abandoned the gloves."

Justin, one of these days news from mid-2020 will reach West Virginia. You just need to be patient....

From: Wild Bill
10-Mar-21
Three weeks ago my daughter-in-law had covid with flu like symptoms. It was believed she "caught" it at work from a gal who was sick and came to work anyway and later tested positive covid. So now she is at home with my son and her two children for the entire four days of her sicky feeling, and none of the others in the household got sick.

As believers we could ascribe that occurance to answered prayer, however, nobody so scientifically minded would accept our evidence, and that itself is nothing new in this world of blind faith in whatever is today's announced science fad. That's just the way it is and will continue well beyond anyone's patience.

From: pav
10-Mar-21
Was on the fence for a long time, but received the J&J vaccine yesterday. No noticeable side effects so far.

From: Woods Walker
10-Mar-21
I go to the Walgreens website everyday and all they say is that nothing is available in my area for the next 3 days....and this has been going on for the past 2 weeks. So like everything else I guess I'm on my own.

From: Boxcall70
10-Mar-21
Got second Moderna vaccination Monday at 3:00 p.m.that evening wasn't bad,but got the shivers that night sleeping and next day sore as a boil all body over.ran a temp of 101 all day Tuesday.slept hard last night.this morning temp normal.still feeling a little puny.glad its over.

10-Mar-21
No poison in my arm or body, no thanks.

10-Mar-21
Matt, I guess we are all just breathing it in through our masks. I mean, that makes a lot of sense doesn’t it. Proves what I’ve been sayin’ all along about mask being ineffective.

Wait. Masks work so well. That’s what you’ve been saying. Which is it? If masks work so well, the. How is it we’ve had these explosions in cases? Mask mandates have been a very real variable through this all. Maybe they don’t work well? Nah, can’t be. Because you said so.

You can’t argue from both sides. Plus, it’s hard to accept uncommon logic when the science demands logical reasoning concerning the real world results. Unless of course, your whole point is to be contradicting.

If transmission only occurs by inoculation through the eyes and vapor into the mouth, etc.... we got a lot of people touching something that has the virus the touching their eyes. Or, they spend a lot of time in someone’s face who has it.

Keep on being a wise guy. I’ve yet to post anything with as much pertinent information explaining how inept some of this research is. Yet, you hang on it like a gotcha point. SMH.

10-Mar-21
Robin had both shots, no ill effects at all.

I am now eligible and on the list in my county, waiting for their notification.

Interestingly, 10 days after donating blood I received notification that they test all donations for SARS/COVID antibodies. My results were negative but they cannot guarantee the accuracy of the test.

I know many believe the lockdowns are about control. I am willing to bet if politicians refused lockdowns they would have been accused of trying to control the population by allowing people to die, Bill Gates would be accused no doubt and Cuomo would be given credit for keeping Social Security solvent.

Justin, I was in Carrollton, MO this weekend. I was in the tiny minority wearing a mask in Orschelan’s even though a sign on the door said facial covering was required. I bet that is not the only place not abiding by the mandate, but hey I don’t want to mess with your logic.

Carry on...

From: Will
10-Mar-21
Frank, keep wearing it and get the Vax when you get a chance. Good to hear the Misses has had it. Absolute worst case scenario about wearing the mask, you get a funny tan. Best case scenario you are a some to a solid bit safer - as are those around you.

Given essentially zero risk to you, and potentially solid gains to you and the community around you, it's worth it.

10-Mar-21
Frank, I bet they were happy that you were wearing a mask. Because, it’s not about stopping you from getting it. It’s about keeping the wearer from spreading it. Right?

I like this one facet approach of the “science only” crowd. It’s impeccable to common sense. SMH

From: MathewsMan
10-Mar-21
I Copied this from a friends post somewhere else and it is a guy 40 years old and in primo shape when he got this crap, I’m 10 years older and don’t hit the gym 4 days a week but was running around 20 to 25 miles a week up until I went hunting on Kodiak for 12 days... this is pretty well articulated and I can attest to having a similar experience myself-

Covid-19 update. I don't understand everyone being so secretive about covid so I'm opening up about my experience. I'm guilty in thinking this was merely an over reaction to a new cold virus. I was one of those skeptics and guys who thought I would not get sick or be asymptomatic. That was until I got Covid-19. It has absolutely whipped my ass! I'm a very active, don't slow down healthy 40 year old guy. I go to gym at least 4 days a week and stay active on the the weekends. This virus has completely humbled me and scared me at times. I've experienced every symptom under the sun and a few that aren't even listed. It's such a yo-yo virus. One day your fine, next day you feel like your dying. It effects everyone different. I've been in close contact with 3 of my closest friends who are also positive (surely contracted from me at hunting camp) and it has just beat them up. There is no real time line on feeling better, there are some lasting effects including heart and lung damage that just scares me. I write this now completely dizzy and exhausted, Its my tenth day since symptoms started.

It's scary how contagious it is. Just my inner circle and families of those I have been with have been so effected by this. Imagine your child cannot go to school, play sports, trick or treat, or see friends or family for 14 days because they are living in a house with positive cases. It's a huge burden on family. I've been in the same house as wife and daughter and I've not seen them for more than 5 minutes in 10 days. Autumn has to wait on me as I cannot leave the room. She is basically a prisoner because I'm sick. The ripple effect is unbelievable. In the time your in quarantine you left thinking about your contact with others. Who you may have infected, your lack of diligence in reducing virus spread and how it has effected the lives of co-workers, friends, family. That's a burden on me, thats something often not mentioned with this virus. It not only effects you but so many others. I'm a new believer in masks, it can slow spread and for that I will advocate for the use of them. I don't wish this on anyone. If there is anything you can do to keep yourself healthy and safe and prevent lasting effects on friends and family I encourage you to do so.

I'm blessed to have an amazing wife to help me through this. So grateful her work is understanding with her absence. Thankful to her coworkers who have to fill in for her. Not everyone has that. I am beyond thankful I work with an amazing crew of guys who pick up my slack and will do anything possible to ensure we continue to serve our customers in the basin. I couldn't imagine what our business would be like without them. It's unbelievable to see them rise up amid so much chaos. I have supportive friends and family who's well wishes and support make it easier. Not everyone is as lucky. I simply ask you be considerate of others. This virus will not be exclusive to you with it's impacts. We have to start thinking more about our community, our friends, and out families.

10-Mar-21
Thanks Will.

Justin, the establishment has the right to ask customers to comply, I have the right to go elsewhere if I don’t agree.

Good advice I received since a very young man...don’t go looking for trouble and you probably won’t find any, but if it comes, be ready. I have tried to adhere to that.

A really big burly guy in front of me wearing a red MAGA hat had no mask. He gave me that look of disdain.

I asked the cashier why no one had a mask on, could I take mine off. She replied they could not force people to wear one. I laughed and said I wouldn’t try and force the customer before me to wear one and that he probably thought I was a wimp. She replied she thought real men complied with the restriction, I told her how smart she was;-)

He was a big man, but there were three of us...myself, Smith, and Wesson. LOL.

From: Jackaroo
10-Mar-21
“He was a big man, but there were three of us...myself, my vagina , Smith, and Wesson. LOL.

From: keepemsharp
10-Mar-21
Frank: are you saying you were packing? Personally, I don't buy it.

From: KSflatlander
10-Mar-21
9 out of 10 dentists recommended brushing and Justin goes with the one that doesn’t. SMH

We are in a pandemic with an airborne pathogen and Justin thinks covering your mouth is dumb. Let that sink in for a little bit. Then has the gall to claim common sense.

10-Mar-21
Dave,

CC from way back, when you had to take the classes. Shield 9, never leave home without it, with me even on campus. Believe it or not.

10-Mar-21

IdyllwildArcher's Link
New CDC guidelines out today for fully vaccinated people.

From: Matt
10-Mar-21
Justin, noted that you've yet to post any pertinent information on the topic.

The solution to this grand mystery is actually pretty simple. 1.) Masks are meant to contain respiratory droplets that the wearer would otherwise expel into the environment which could be inhaled by or contact the mucous membranes of others, and not to protect the wearer from droplets expelled by others. You seem like an observant fellow, so you've no doubt notes that, when a person wears a mask, the mask is closer to their mouth than the mouths of the people standing 6 feet away. This is key, as the mask contains many more droplets expelled by the person wearing it than it is protecting the wearer from droplets expelled by people who are standing 6 feet away - who are presumably also wearing a mask. This is why virologists have determined there is very little risk of spread through touching contaminated surfaces, as the viral load one can be exposed to is generally not enough to result in disease. 2.) Masks only work when worn. As to the conundrum of why we have seen surges in the disease despite mask mandates (or, from your perspective, why masks worked, and then they didn't, and then they did again), it is a simple study in human behaviour. People do not all follow the rules. I would imagine this is especially true of those who don't believe masks work. The fall surge correlated very highly with winter weather which forced people in doors and with the holidays during which many people travelled to see family despite recommendations to the contrary by health experts. Then...masks miraculously started working again once people stopped travelling to see family after the holidays.

Mystery solved.

From: Kevin Dill
11-Mar-21
The overriding principle of mask usage is that it is done to minimize or prevent pathogen spread from the wearer toward others. This has been known in medicine for longer than most of us have been alive. Yes...a mask does offer some protection to the wearer against pathogens, but that's a secondary benefit unless the mask amounts to a filter respirator. It's honestly too easy for people (including me) to think a simple mask on my face confers safety and protection for me. No mask stops 100% of viruses borne on vapor, micro-droplets and ejected by coughing or sneezing. Masks are an aid to slowing down airborne transmission of disease-causing pathogens, and it stops there.

I've personally never looked at any of these measures (masks, hand-washing, distancing, and the vaccine) as anything more than fractional help...a slice of the pie in each. But put all of them together and used every day, the individual odds of escaping serious disease are improved. That's all. Not guaranteed. I still think people have the right to decide how they feel about this. I really wish our health practices weren't being politicized either way, as it tends to exacerbate misinformation generated to support a political leaning. Again...that unfortunately goes both ways. Most of us just want to be healthy, protect our loved ones, and compromise our lives to the least extent possible.

From: JayG@work
11-Mar-21
Nope. Passing on the vaccine. Passing on Masks as much as possible,, but when I do wear one, it is one that says either.. "This mask is as useless as my Governor ", I live in NY, or the one that says, "I am more worried about losing my Constitutional rights that catching COVID 19". I figure that if I am in a place that mandates that I have to wear one, I'm going to make a statement..... Take vitamin C, D and Zinc and you will be okay.

11-Mar-21
"Take vitamin C, D and Zinc and you will be okay."

They prevent cancer as well?

When someone's obvious political ideology does their thinking on health issues, time to quit listening!

From: Will
11-Mar-21
Except that in good trials none of those vitamins do anything to protect you from COVID or other virus's - unless you were solidly deficient in the first place. Then again, expensive urine has value to the world too.

In 3...2...1... we get the avalanche of Vit D "cures" covid and this is all a scam to get Biden elected and make money for big pharma and 3M so they can make tons of masks!

Sorry, I try to avoid sarcasm, but I'm getting grumpy in my "old" age...

From: Glunt@work
11-Mar-21
"When someone's obvious political ideology does their thinking on health issues, time to quit listening!"

That's a mouthful. Good advice whether you sport a red hat or wear a Vote Biden mask outside jogging alone.

From: midwest
11-Mar-21
I have the opportunity to get the 1st Moderna shot next week at work.

From: JayG@work
11-Mar-21
Actually there are numerous studies showing that vit D and zinc help prevent COVID and the severity of symptoms if COVID is contracted... sorta funny,, Habitat laughs about Vit C preventing cancer.... LOL.. I had cancer stage 3C lung. I was given 6 months back in 08/08/08. I was told by the surgeon at Sloan Kettering as well as a Complimentary and Alternative Medicine Doctor to take lots of Vit C to help fight the cancer. Not to go into all the details, but i did,, and it did.. Political ideology has nothing to do with it. I still do the vitamins and I haven't been sick in years. So that is all. Do what you want..... My opinion for what it's worth.

11-Mar-21
New study out based on the mass-vaccination done in Israel:

Pfizer/Moderna vaccines provide 97% protection against hospitalization and death and 94% protection against getting the virus at all.

Translation: We could get rid of this thing if everyone gets vaccinated.

At this point, personally, I consider it an act of patriotism and love of thy neighbor to get the vaccine. It's a shame that political ideology is using patriotism erroneously to cause the inverse and hurt us all.

I'm not saying that everyone shouldn't have a choice, but this country has a history of pulling together and sacrificing for the good of the nation and the good of the world.

We should be leading on this, not following.

From: 70lbdraw
11-Mar-21
"Translation: We could get rid of this thing if everyone gets vaccinated."

And the world won't end in 12 years from global warming if you'd hurry up and trade your gas guzzling truck in for an electric one!!

11-Mar-21
Apples and oranges.

From: Brotsky
11-Mar-21
Very well said Ike, I'm as conservative as they come but this crap has gone too far. Time to re-open this country and economy. Time to return to real life. The vaccine is the only way it happens.

Got my shot scheduled for March 20. Not sure what flavor I will get but I'm not scared of any of them.

11-Mar-21
Jay,

I take multis and vitamin C daily for over 40 years. So did a friend that died from pancreatic cancer. Is my sample accurate or is yours?

Answers: diseases are more complex than simple answers and I will place more faith in folks that dedicated a lifetime to studying them than some narcissistic blow hard, whom I voted for both times Glunt. Maybe some day both sides will get past the binary thinking...Orange Man bad/god.

From: 70lbdraw
11-Mar-21
"Apples and oranges."

Not when they're both being pushed by the same sheep herders union!!

11-Mar-21
Same sheep herders? President Donald Trump sprearheaded the development of a vaccine and he and his wife both got it...

Also, the medical community and climate scientists are different groups. Where would you go if you cut your leg off? NASA? JPL?

From: 70lbdraw
11-Mar-21
NASA, JPL, Dr. Faucci... Results will likely be the same.

11-Mar-21
That's just prejudice based on partisanship.

From: midwest
11-Mar-21
I must admit I'm going to get vaccinated for mostly selfish reasons. I want to keep my job, I want the company I work for to continue to grow and succeed, and I want all the good employees they had to lay off back to work.

Covid has been hard on aerospace manufacturing.

11-Mar-21
We aren’t talking about sheepherders with this leadership. We are talking about the swamp. Let’s make sure we are clear on that because it is indisputable........

11-Mar-21
Just a few years ago I would have bet a significant sum that in my lifetime we would never have another president that I disagreed with more on policy than Carter or Obama. I would have lost big time, and still am wondering how this disintegrated so quickly!

If these shots don't get the economy back on track at least somewhat, we are in for a very tough road ahead IMHO.

From: Jackaroo
11-Mar-21
I didn’t realize the vaccine also cured stupidity? We didn’t get here because of Covid we are exactly where inept politicians put us . Do they have a vaccine for inflation? How about $300 trillion in unfunded liabilities?

11-Mar-21
Don’t you have a Proud Boys meeting to attend?

11-Mar-21
When told I had Covid, I was advised to take Zinc, vitamin c and d2. Somebody’s got think it helps.

Outside the Faucci cult, there seems to be a lot of health professionals that agree. But, some don’t like common logic or anything that presents as a logical conclusion.

Far enough is having men telling everyone how to think and act. Do your thing and allow others to do theirs. It’s pretty simple. Remember, your mask will save you. Three will absolutely save you.

Take care and God Bless you men.

From: drycreek
11-Mar-21
^^^^^^ WV, I took zinc (4 lozenges a day) from the day I started feeling poorly until I felt ok again, a total of about a week. I can’t help but think it helped me. I’m 74 tomorrow, overweight, have afib, diabetic, etc. , in other words the poster boy for hospitalization with covid. I had one real tough 24 hour period and got progressively better each day after that. Three days of low grade fever, no breathing problems. I was already taking vitamins C and D. I can’t prove any of it helped, (just like they can’t prove masks help), but I think so.

From: No Mercy
11-Mar-21
My wife and I Got the Johnson and Johnson single dose shot today. So far so good.

From: MarkU
11-Mar-21
Got the Phizer shot yesterday. Three weeks to the next one. Zero complications.

11-Mar-21
There's been good evidence for taking zinc, vit C, and vit D when you have active COVID. But it's far better to not get the virus in the first place.

From: pav
11-Mar-21
I'm over 50 hours on the J&J vaccine...zero noticeable side effects so far.

From: Glunt@work
11-Mar-21
I need to read the Israel study. 94% chance of not getting the virus sounds good but more than 90% in the US haven't gotten Covid since we started tracking it a year ago (likely less than 90% since some had it and didn't know). Does it mean 94% of people who for sure had eye or respiratory exposure to the virus didn't contract Covid?

11-Mar-21
This is a study based on Israelis in Israel, not the USA.

And no, you can't use humans as test subjects and intentionally expose them, so you can't run that kind of a study. You can only test people who've gotten the vaccine for active infection and compare it with people who haven't had the vaccine - just as they compare people who've had the vaccine and get hospitalized and/or die vs those who haven't.

The numbers are still remarkable. And no swamp creature US politician boogeymen to blame for the numbers for the conspiracy folks.

From: Glunt@work
11-Mar-21
Thanks. I read a bit and understand it better. Basically 94% reduction compared to the unvaccinated group. I think there are cases where humans are intentionally exposed to disease-causing virus for legitimate testing.

11-Mar-21
Glunt, much valuable research could come from those methods, but it's not done in this country anymore and hasn't for decades. Purposely infecting a human has been considered absolutely unethical since at least the 60s and the case of the study of black men being intentionally allowed to go untreated for syphilis several generations ago in order to study the long-term affects and timeline of said disease is still held out as the Holy Grail of what not to do when doing a study and is rehashed so as to keep that scab from ever healing - and is also hailed as a big part of the reason that black people as a group are more hesitant to get the COVID vaccine.

From: Scoot
12-Mar-21

Scoot's Link
The study Ike is referring to is commonly called the Tuskegee Syphilis study. Sad deal and hugely influenced how researchers were allowed to deal with human research participants moving forward. Also heavily influenced how research that followed was monitored and how oversight of research was handled. It's one of several studies that have left a black eye on medical research in our country. As Ike points out, one reason why some groups of people view medical research, and even the medical field, with great skepticism.

From: Glunt@work
12-Mar-21
I read an article about a UK study that will intentionally expose to corona and a university of Maryland study that does it with Cholera.

From: Glunt@work
12-Mar-21

Glunt@work's Link
Link about the UK study

12-Mar-21
Yes Glunt. There were people intentionally exposed. By China! In that Wuhan lab! And then purposely sent out world wide knowing the virus was going with them......

From: Boatman71
12-Mar-21
Out of respect to my wife and kids I received my first dose this morning. If I didn't have them, I would not have went to get it.

12-Mar-21
I got my first dose of Moderna this morning. I travel extensively for work and got it primarily for my wife's peace of mind.

From: JayG@work
12-Mar-21
I'll just leave this here and go shoot my bow. A good bunch of reads. https://www.theepochtimes.com/t-vitamin-d

12-Mar-21
Just received the call!

First shot, 3/23, second 4/21.

Moderna. Getting them for my wife, but even if not married would still get them;-)

12-Mar-21
The wife and I were unable to get the vaccine here in our own county but she was able to schedule both in a neighbor county. I had a sore arm each injection site but the boss had a rough day after the second injection and suffered fever and nasty 'muscle' pain. The second was last Tuesday. We are strong believers that; in the end, only a mass vaccinated population worldwide will bring an end to this. Has anyone researched the supposed 'pill' recently announced that was reported to possibly be effective alone the lines as Tamiflu is?

12-Mar-21
4/19 for the 1st....

And its for anyone I come in contact with. Lord knows my business depends on interacting with the public. I need my job so I can provide, live and have the ability to hunt...lord willing.

From: Will
12-Mar-21
There are studies with maybe a weak indication for early disease regarding Vit D and Covid. MAYBE. There are interesting trials starting to be done on it (VIVID comes to mind for those of nerdy persuasion)... and there are a few interesting RCT being done beyond that. There have been a few huge studies like one by Patchen, Clark, Hancock, Gaddis and Cassano looking at 1.5 MILLION folks looking at genetically predicted serum D... with that big a sample you would think some interesting data would percolate out: "These findings suggest that genetically predicted differences in long term Vitamin D nutritional status do not causally affect susceptibility and severity of COVID-19 infection, and that associations found in previous studies may have been driven by confounding."

From what I've seen, at this point, it's hard to say more than "maybe" for Vit D saving the day with C-19...

Now, it's Vit D and many people living in the north are low, so... what the heck. I do not see evidence showing high functionality in stopping covid. it seems to fall into early HCQ issues where the research is to murky and as better research is done any potential benefit melts away. But there may be other reasons to take D (you live in the north for example) so go for it.

Those of you getting the shot - good on you! Well done!

12-Mar-21
According to Faucci, there is a significant correlation in vitamin d levels and the rate at which infections occur. Along with a bunch of other practicing doctors. As well as study conducted from all areas of the country with 190,000 people. Vitamin D is quit possibly the best defense against contracting it. Vaccine aside.

Like I said before, somebody believes it works. Even if the bowsite promaskers don’t.

From: Deertick
12-Mar-21
Well, Vitamin D correlates with improved outcomes, but let's not get carried away. The thing is ... it's difficult to separate "Vitamin D" from "Good health". Really difficult. It's easy to look at observational studies and see correlations and those ARE useful -- for generating hypotheses. Be in good health, and get a vaccine ... these are not mutually exclusive.

From: txhunter58
13-Mar-21
Current data:

29,000,000 cases (prob underestimated)

529,000 deaths (prob overestimated)

Even if the death toll is grossly overestimated, hundreds of thousands of people have died from this. And in addition to all the deaths, there are many many people with serious and lasting effects from the disease. I know personally quite a few people that are dealing with effects months after “getting over” the virus.

With millions and millions of doses of the vaccine already given, it is pretty credible that the chances of serious side effects are very low

Not trying to convince the non vaccers to get one. You have made up your mind. But for those sitting on the fence, the predominance of science says you are safer with the vaccine than the disease.

I am also tired of getting up each day with a little fear that today might be the day I get it. I want to feel a semblance of normal again and for me that means getting the vaccine. I would rather take a known extremely low chance with the vaccine vs the Russian roulette of the virus.

From: Kevin Dill
13-Mar-21
It’s all about mitigation. Each thing you do isn’t going to absolutely prevent you from getting covid. Each thing you do...including vaccination...is designed to hopefully further reduce your risk. Mask, distance, hand hygiene, and vaccination....all a piece of the prevention pie. Do it all and you probably have the lowest risk of sickness possible.

And as I always say...everyone has the right to decide for themselves. For myself, I’m doing everything possible. And actually I’m doing it for my family.

From: Bowbender
13-Mar-21
"29,000,000 cases (prob underestimated)

529,000 deaths (prob overestimated)"

Then the 1.8% fatality rate is significantly lower. Right?

"I want to feel a semblance of normal again..."

Sorry, this IS the new normal. The government keeps moving the goal of when a sense of normalacy will return. Remember, once given, a government will never freely return control to its serfs. Look at how we allowed governors to destroy state economys with their heavy handed and punitive EO's.

"I would rather take a known extremely low chance with the vaccine vs the Russian roulette of the virus."

Yeah.....about Russian roulette. See above. You think Russian roulette is a virus that has a ~99% survival rate.

From: Jackaroo
13-Mar-21
People don’t like to make decisions that differ from the herd. They get cowed into following because they crave approval and companionship and safety from like minded. If you are not obese , diseased and under 65 you really have nothing to worry about.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1127639/covid-19-mortality-by-age-us/

13-Mar-21
^^^^ Not exactly true... at all.

Then explain all the less than 30 year olds and kids. Please.

But here’s a fact.

mRNA – Also known as messenger ribonucleic acid, mRNA is the only active ingredient in the vaccine. The mRNA molecules contain the genetic material that provide instructions for our body on how to make a viral protein that triggers an immune response within our bodies. The immune response is what causes our bodies to make the antibodies needed to protect us from getting infected if exposed to the coronavirus.

I respect freedom of choice and opinion as well.

13-Mar-21
WV. Fauci is all over the place. Why anyone would believe a word he says is beyond me. I had no idea people were that easily brainwashed......

From: midwest
13-Mar-21
"Mask, distance, hand hygiene, and vaccination....all a piece of the prevention pie."

That's all we ever hear. Never, "get some exercise, quit eating shit, lose the fat, get outside, improve your immune system."

Americans are fat, weak, and easy to kill.

From: milnrick
13-Mar-21
We received our first doses Wednesday morning, second one is set for 4/8.

Those of you who've had difficulty finding an appointment might try Walmart's GoodRx website. The Walmart pharmacies are linked to the federal (and not being administered by State or County Health departments). They had a ton of appointments available here in TN as well as TX and IL. Give it a try, its worked for several of our friends.

From: Jackaroo
13-Mar-21
Tree stand

the explanation is in the link. Read it. Here’s another https://www.heritage.org/data-visualizations/public-health/covid-19-deaths-by-age/

3710 out of 500k people under 30 have died from Covid so far . You can bet that a high percentage of them had underlying health conditions and or obesity. 80% of all deaths the people were obese. This whole killing of the economy could have been easily avoided by locking down the elderly and people with obesity and people obesity related health conditions.

From: Kevin Dill
13-Mar-21
“That's all we ever hear. Never, "get some exercise, quit eating shit, lose the fat, get outside, improve your immune system."

That would be downright un-American to do all those things. And yeah....the medical community has been preaching this for decades without success. Probably 1/3 of the health care professionals in the U.S. don’t eat right and could lose some weight.

13-Mar-21
So, champions of individual rights support locking down obese people? And if Hispanics have a higher rate, then lock them down also?

Doubt that will garner much support!

From: midwest
13-Mar-21
"That would be downright un-American to do all those things. And yeah....the medical community has been preaching this for decades without success. Probably 1/3 of the health care professionals in the U.S. don’t eat right and could lose some weight."

Agreed.....and I bet it's much higher than 1/3. Except Idylwild. He needs to eat a few more cheeseburgers. :-)

From: txhunter58
13-Mar-21
Jackaroo:

I am 63. Your statistics. puts me at 6.7% chance of dying.

That’s pretty high odds in a game of Russian roulette. My odds of dying from the vaccine are Aprox 1 in 90,000. That is a 0.000011 chance. I’ll take those odds.

“ If you are not obese , diseased and under 65 you really have nothing to worry about”

Guess we don’t need to worry about those people. They brought it on themselves by being older, obese, or diseased. We don’t really need people with diabetes around anyway.

From: Jackaroo
13-Mar-21
“So, champions of individual rights support locking down obese people?” No, self imposed lock down, but you knew that. I would force them to wear a sack over their face if they were ugly.

From: Jackaroo
13-Mar-21
Tx, It doesn’t matter if nature dealt you the hand or your decisions did. Facts are not discriminatory. The 80% of deaths of the obese 100% of them did that to themselves, my guess is that covers a lot of the diabetes and heart disease too. Some people were dealt a bad hand but it doesn’t change the facts. If you have any of those conditions you should probably stay out of public it shouldn't be the public’s responsibility to stay away from you.

I’m 63 also. I had Covid , it was a runny nose for two days. Work out 7 days a week since I was 15. Zero prescriptions next to zero alcohol and sugar.

13-Mar-21
Good for you Jack, but this is a free country and people get to live their lives how they want, not how some narrow minded wanna be dictator decides. You obviously have trouble understanding our Rights, there are no qualifiers like the ones you want to place on them.

From: Jackaroo
13-Mar-21
If that’s true then why do young and healthy people have to wear masks and social distance to protect the obese?

13-Mar-21
So to slow the spread because there are residual and possibly serious long term health challenges for some who do survive. Buy time, gain knowledge as to learn what works best, really not too complicated if you have any compassion and can quit trying to play tough guy long enough to think about it.

13-Mar-21
"Tx, It doesn’t matter if nature dealt you the hand or your decisions did. Facts are not discriminatory."

Reminds me of my favorite Ben Shapiro quote. Love him or hate him, it's so true:

"Facts don't care about your feelings."

From: Glunt@work
14-Mar-21
Lets be sure to save some compassion for those who lost jobs and businesses as well due to mandated social distancing. Throw in those kids who haven't done well with school and activities being cancelled and those folks who died alone without family allowed to be there.

14-Mar-21
For sure Glunt. Absolutely.

From: Jackaroo
14-Mar-21
Habitat , you just said it was a free country and people get to live how they want? Now you are saying I have to live how you want me to live. Get your story straight. In my free country I don't blame people for their mistakes, but I do ask that they pay for them.

From: Matt
14-Mar-21

Matt's Link
I'll just throw out to the keyboard warriors that the woman who suffered quadruple amputation due to COVID is a survivor.

The point here being that those who imply outcomes are binary (you survive and are fine or you die) are idiots.

14-Mar-21
Jack, Nice try making facts up, I never said you have to live any specific way. I answered your question, that’s it.

Glunt, I agree, compassion for all, that’s what makes the human race special, and real tough guys know that.

I am just tired of the ‘here’s how it is’ crap when there is still much to learn about this health challenge. Tired of the binary choice of we agree on everything or you are my enemy. And tired of keyboard tough guys, most are just blowhards.

I have lived an almost normal existence through this. I am pushing my college to allow those of us who want to be back in the classroom, students and faculty, to do so. I have continued to go to stores and restaurants as much as I felt I wanted to. Being married to a dental hygienist, I have long practiced good hygiene. I wear glasses, the masks are a real pain with fog. I wear them to respect others, but when not required I keep my distance and do not wear one. I exercise daily, and take vitamins and silver biotics. I am outdoors working on habitat several times a week, a very active guy.

Just get tired of punk a$$es who think they are someone special. Reminds me of the blowhards in USMC OCS who showed up on the first day and told everyone how bad they were. They were some of the first to DOR. On any given day there is always someone badder and tougher, and the loudest mouth in mocking others is typically the most insecure. And Jack, in case I am not being direct enough I meant you. The guy at Orschelan’s, he broke eye contact first bud and you know what I am saying.

14-Mar-21
Whoa, finally got notice...I can get my 1st, starting Monday!

From: Kevin Dill
14-Mar-21
Nice to get voted ON the island!

I sometimes wonder what the narrative would be if this pandemic primarily took the lives of children under age 15 and possibly having a predisposing condition. Would we value their lives more ..... or would we be as quick to write off their loss as we are the older population?

From: Woods Walker
14-Mar-21
We are now booked at Meijer pharmacy. They will "let us know", so still waiting.....

From: Jackaroo
14-Mar-21
“Just get tired of punk a$$es who think they are someone special. Reminds me of the blowhards in USMC OCS who showed up on the first day and told everyone how bad they were. “

You mean like people that imagine a big mean MAGA man staring them down in the restaurant and someone telling everyone it was him ,me and my buddy Smith and Wesson, That kind of fake tough guy?

Kevin, how is pointing to the death statics writing off the older population? How is suggesting that the people most vulnerable be the ones that take precautions instead of those who are not at risk a bad idea?

Matt, if we are going to mange by corner cases then people have died from the vaccine , pretending that the cure is binary is idiocy.

From: Jackaroo
14-Mar-21

Jackaroo's Link
We used to be a country that got things done now we are a country full of hand wringers https://mobile.twitter.com/billmaher/status/1370617945102020614

From: Grey Ghost
14-Mar-21
Nowhere in my daily life do I see more hand-wringing than right here on Bowsite.

Matt

14-Mar-21
I didn’t imagine anything. He was an a$$ just like you. He found out he didn’t intimidate everyone, just like you are finding it out.

14-Mar-21
Matt,

Not just hand wringing...I would love to know how many are getting vaccinated, or have already, that used to claim this was all an international hoax to get rid of trump. I see one who was in that group is now getting the shot. I guess add hypocrisy or they have seen the light?

OTH, thanks to you guys that did admit to getting the shot and helping to convince others to do so. Kudos to the OP.

From: Grey Ghost
14-Mar-21
Gee, Frank, don't you know that Covid is no worse than the common cold? After all, it only affects fat and unhealthy people. For everyone else it's just a "runny nose for a few days." Jack and Justin said so, after all.

Matt

From: Bob H in NH
14-Mar-21
Those tossing g out the term obese. I would be 75% of people here are obese, if you go by the medical definition. If your weight starts with a 2 and you are under 6 foot 3, you are probably obese. I am and I. A spinning instructor, and do hiit workouts and lift and hike. NOT fat by any means, but being says obese

Wife and I are 2 weeks from our 2nd moderna shots

From: 70lbdraw
14-Mar-21
"WV. Fauci is all over the place. Why anyone would believe a word he says is beyond me. I had no idea people were that easily brainwashed......"

Where have you been? Have you ever heard of "democrats"?

From: Kevin Dill
14-Mar-21
The deaths of old people and those with unhealthy lifestyles are often described pragmatically. “Oh well”.....The web is full of inferences that the obese and elderly should bear the brunt of precautions to avoid COVID due to their greater risk. The overwhelming recommendations from the entirety of medical science are that the most effective ways to beat down the viral incidence is for all of us to engage in the measures they primarily recommend. You best protect the weak and vulnerable by engaging the majority in the war against an enemy....not each other. That’s basically an American tradition by the way.

From: Jackaroo
14-Mar-21

Jackaroo's Link
I didn’t say it grey ghost the statistics do. Here is another group affected.

https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/across-virtually-every-key-measure-childhood-progress-has-gone-backward-unicef-says

From: Grey Ghost
14-Mar-21
Jack, tell that to the family of my healthy cousin who died from Covid.

You're the type guy I'd love to meet face to face, just to see if you are as tough in person as you come across on your keyboard. I doubt it.

Matt

From: AZ~Rich
14-Mar-21
Wow! I just surprised myself by reading through this entire thread! After 40 yrs in healthcare and specifically infectious diseases, I have only one thing to add. The way out of this very contagious viral mess is and always has been by vaccination. Otherwise it will continue to percolate through human populations at a high enough level to disrupt normal human activities including world economies. It has already put our relatively prosperous country much deeper into debt and altered many industries maybe forever. All of us (no matter from what stripe) will be affected by what happens here. The immunity derived by recovering from COVID is great but not necessarily better than through vaccination. Getting vaccinated after one’s recovery from COVID can actually build an even better immunological response as the quality of subsequent antibodies improves, as does your potential longevity of protection via memory T cells. Given the variety of vaccine platforms which have now emerged out of the past year’s research, it’s going to be confusing initially to sort them out. However, from what we have, the few that have cleared FDA to date should provide the safest choices. There’s no magic about it. No other similar agency in the world is as rigorous in its approval process. Yes, the mRNA platform is new for these two vaccines but is not really new. DNA and RNA vaccines have been in the works for at least 18-20 yrs, so most if the safety issues have been already worked out. Millions have been vaccinated and serves as an unprecedented amount of real world clinical data to further consider their safety. Eventually one of more of the various vaccines should emerge as the preferred platform based on massive amounts of post vaccination data. Improvements should come as more information is gathered and as new variants emerge. An amazing and unique thing about the new mRNA platform is the ability to quickly develop a booster vaccine to cover any new variant challenge within ~40 days! We will probably be living with this new coronavirus for the rest out lifetimes so it’s important that we get it knocked down to manageable levels as soon as possible. It’s apparent to anyone who deals with these issues from the lifetime’s perspective of professional practice and study that the only way to get there is to vaccinate as many “susceptible hosts” as possible. We owe it to our families and future generations to keep our society and culture sound and solvent. So, PLEASE just get your F’’’king shot already! PS: wife and I have been fully vaccinated w/ Pfizer’s, and hoping most of you realize it’s the most expedient way out of this awful mess.

From: Jackaroo
14-Mar-21
Kevin, The case mortality rates in countries are very similar regardless of measures taken to mitigate. I believe Peru , UK and Italy had some of the strictest lockdowns but some of the higher case mortality rates. The outliers typically have older populations or obesity issues. My mom is 82 and my aunt is 81 and did not leave their homes or allow anyone in for an entire year. It’s been a real challenge but it was the right thing to do.

From: Jackaroo
14-Mar-21
Grey Ghost I’ll do that if you go explain to my cousin who has a 20 year old son who is a complete invalid due to vaccine reaction as a 1 year old. Nothing I have said has anything to do with tough. Where I come from tough don’t talk they do.

From: LINK
14-Mar-21
“ At this point, personally, I consider it an act of patriotism and love of thy neighbor to get the vaccine.”

I consider it an act of love and patriotism to let the people that might die get the shot first. After everyone over 40 that wants the vaccine has had it, then I might be a patriot.

From: Grey Ghost
14-Mar-21
Jack, what does your cousin's son's extremely rare reaction to an unnamed vaccine have to do with the severity of Covid and efficacy of the Covid vaccines?

Look, consider yourself lucky that you had mild Covid symptoms. Millions of people weren't/aren't so lucky. Your notion that only the highest risk people should be the ones to sacrifice for the overall safety of our society would be laughable, if it wasn't so pathetic.

BTW, did you ever consider the fact that you contracted Covid may mean you aren't as bullet-proof as you think?

Matt

From: bluedog
14-Mar-21
My wife and I get our 2nd Pfizer shot this coming Thursday. I'm very comfortable and happy getting them.

(I'm hoping my intense craving for human flesh goes away soon though)

From: Jackaroo
14-Mar-21
Ghost,

“Your notion that only the highest risk people should be the ones to sacrifice for the overall safety of our society would be laughable, if it wasn't so pathetic.”

You miss the point , they sacrifice for their own safety, no one else’s. For People in the low risk group the high risk group isn’t a threat they are not protecting anyone but themselves. It’s the flu for the low risk . All these measures have done years of damage to the lowest risk group,kids. The numbers don’t lie.

From: Grey Ghost
14-Mar-21
Jack,

I didn't miss your point. Using your twisted logic, it could be argued that anyone who contracted Covid has an inherently weak immune system, and they should sacrifice their lifestyles for the overall safety of our society. How would you like that narrative?

Matt

From: 70lbdraw
14-Mar-21
"We owe it to our families and future generations to keep our society and culture sound and solvent. So, PLEASE just get your F’’’king shot already!"

Perhaps you should head down to the border, set up a revival tent, and preach it to the our newly invited guests. You know...the ones that don't give a shit about us, our families, or any other American citizens. Perhaps you can wait until they fly the illegals into your hometown for redistribution. Tell them they need to get the shot before they get all of their free shit! SMH

From: Jackaroo
14-Mar-21
GG, yes you did and your counter is the response of someone that doesn’t understand how life on earth works.

From: marvelous
14-Mar-21

marvelous's Link

14-Mar-21
Jack,

You don’t understand much yourself. Italians are huggers and gatherers, no matter what the government says. Point being, there are lots of variables at play besides what policies were instituted. Since you feel comfortable concluding frequently what most people do, I comfortably conclude you are one of those who only see information that confirms your pre-existing biases.

From: Woods Walker
14-Mar-21

Woods Walker's embedded Photo
Woods Walker's embedded Photo

From: txhunter58
14-Mar-21
Anyone on the fence should re-read Az-Rich’s post. Intelligent thoughts. Jack, you are excused from that

Jack you also have a leg up on us who haven’t had the virus yet. You know you are in the “mild” case category. Chances are 94% that my experience with Covid, if I do contract it, will be similar to yours. But I have seen friends of mine in that 6%. And not just obese or with medical issues.

And you ignore the aftermath. As stated already multiple times: it ain’t just the death statistics. You could prob double or triple that 6% when you include those that will have long term and possibly lifelong problems after “getting over” this virus.

And as also stated: if this was only killing children, we would not be having this discussion.

You are entitled to your opinion as am I. Good hunting!

From: Bowoman
14-Mar-21
Nope. Not gonna. Already turned down an opportunity a month ago.

From: Matt
14-Mar-21
"Matt, if we are going to mange by corner cases then people have died from the vaccine , pretending that the cure is binary is idiocy."

How many have died from the COVID vaccine? How many have long-term or permanent health implications from COVID? How many have died from COVID?

The idiocy here is trying to compare the first to either of the other two.

From: Matt
14-Mar-21

Matt's Link
"Over 92 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 8, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 1,637 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths."

While the deaths that have occurred following vaccination, even if 100% was due to them - although none has actually been attributed to the vaccine, you would still be ~1,000x more likely to die from COVID.

From: Glunt@work
15-Mar-21
Saw today that 6' was just a guess. Turns out 3' is probably just as good as 6'. CDC is on it an will issue new guidelines when they analyze more data (or datar) as Fauci would say.

15-Mar-21
Can we start a V2 of this thread? It takes forever to scroll down to the new comments.

From: Scoot
15-Mar-21
"The idiocy here is trying to compare the first to either of the other two."

Ding ding ding! Spot on Matt! There are risks associated with getting the vaccine and risks associated with not getting it. People should compare those risks and make their own decisions. To suggest neither choice has any risks is simply wrong. But for most people, the risks of getting covid far, far outweigh any risks associated with getting the vaccine. My read of the risks comparison is crystal clear, but others conclude differently. Unfortunately, the amount of misinformation factoring into many people's decision is very troubling (this thread being an excellent source of much misinformation).

From: krieger
15-Mar-21
Some have gotten far away from the Altar of Darwinism.....worshiping evolution, survival of the fittest, etc ....now it's " EVERYONE OUT OF MY WAY, STAY 6 FEET BACK, AND GET VACCINATED SO YOU DON"T INFECT ME!" ME ME ME lol

I hope the Medical Community has done a better job with the mRNA " vaccine " than they have done with treatment protocols in 2020. Seems like a lot of unnecessary deaths to me, since they know all the answers... The " experts " thought Agent Orange was the best thing since sliced bread too, in the early '70's.

Good luck to all.

From: sleepyhunter
15-Mar-21
I'll get the shot not a problem.

16-Mar-21
Well, first round down today...Almost went with the Johnson and Johnson, but stuck with the two-fer! So far so good, only question I have is...What’s up with the micro-chip?!? Didn’t expect that one...

:-)

From: DanaC
16-Mar-21
"Can we start a V2 of this thread? It takes forever to scroll down to the new comments. "

Just scroll down the list of thread contributors at the start, and click on the last name, or the first one for 'today'.

19-Mar-21
Got my first shot last Friday, 2nd. one will be next month ..I'm high risk type 1 diabetic for 54 years, heart disease, etc...71 yrs. old..

From: DanaC
19-Mar-21
Scheduled for jab 1 on Tuesday. So about 7 weeks for 2nd shot and full effect.

19-Mar-21

TREESTANDWOLF's Link
For what’s is worth fellas.

I was scheduled for 4/16, however my son told me about CVS Pharmacy shortcut that lets you know when the vaccine is in stock so the appointment can be made. My first one is today and second on 4/6.

Even though when you go to the web site, and the pharmacies are “ Fully Booked” the creators of the app and texts send you the information updated in real time.

Just though I’d share some good info.

Link is provided below.

Rich

From: midwest
19-Mar-21
1st shot done!

From: Ridge Runner
19-Mar-21
Yes

19-Mar-21
Done

From: DanaC
22-Mar-21

DanaC's embedded Photo
DanaC's embedded Photo
;-)

From: Moosemania
22-Mar-21
Got first dose Friday. Other than an urge to all of a sudden turn all my guns into the government, all good so far.

From: DanaC
22-Mar-21
Moose, I'm from the government, just load 'em all into the back of my pickup ;-)

From: MQQSE
22-Mar-21
Second shot 45 minutes ago.

From: sticksender
22-Mar-21
Wife and I both got our 2nd dose of the Pfizer version last Wednesday. All good, very little side effects.

From: 70lbdraw
22-Mar-21
You fellas better hurry up and get that shot. The Biden experts are about to give Mexico and Canada all the surplus vaccines.

From: DanaC
22-Mar-21
The vaccine being given to Mexico and Canada is the Astrozeneca which has NOT been approved for use in the US. We have plenty of other vaccine for our citizens.

But please do get yours soon.

From: MQQSE
22-Mar-21

MQQSE's embedded Photo
MQQSE's embedded Photo
It’s just a matter of weeks until AstraZeneca is approved fir use in the US. Out pharmacy has even updated the paperwork to show it as one of the available vaccines.

From: Brotsky
22-Mar-21
First shot down for me last Saturday. Felt under the weather for a bit yesterday but no other effects so far. The voices in my head do speak Chinese now but I'm guessing that will go away.

From: Scoot
22-Mar-21
Brot, the Chinese jibberish in my head went away in a week, but I can't shake this craving for sweet and sour chicken!

From: Brotsky
22-Mar-21
That's not chicken you're craving! Here kitty, kitty!

From: DanaC
22-Mar-21
meow meow gai pan! yummy!

From: Woods Walker
22-Mar-21

Woods Walker's embedded Photo
Woods Walker's embedded Photo
Still waiting.........

From: Rock
24-Mar-21
Got my second Pfizer shot on the 21st, did it more so for my friends as I have never been one to get the yearly Flu shots as I rarely get sick. In my last 17 years of work I missed 1 or 2 partial days. Only missed one day (day of surgery) for my rotator cuff surgery.

24-Mar-21
Just got stuck with round one of Moderna. Was there early, took me right in. They were packed but working very efficiently and all were very nice. Thank you health care workers!

From: JL
24-Mar-21
Just got the 2nd Moderna shot at the local VA clinic around 0845 this morning. I specifically used the same arm as the first. Something I noticed was my arm felt the soreness quicker this shot versus the 1st shot. I feel a little tired but that could be due to a pretty late night of fishing and then getting up early this morning. After I ate some lunch, I took a little snooze. When I woke up a bit ago I felt groggy and my eyes a touch scratchy. I walked outside to get some fresh air. My head feels a touch off but that could be due still waking up. Body temp shows 97.4. Otherwise.....so far...so good. We'll see how it goes for the next day or so.

24-Mar-21
Got my 1st Moderna shot on Monday, 3/22 and my 2nd will be 4/19 at Publix pharmacy. Total time in Publix was 20-25 minutes, including the 15 minute wait after the shot.

24-Mar-21
Got my 2nd Moderna yesterday. Not bad...sore arm, very tired and achy this morning, slight headache. Actually had worse side effects from the first one.

From: txhunter58
24-Mar-21
Young man who works for me got a call today. His 45 year old aunt was sheltering at home with a case of Covid. Was doing well she thought but was talking to his Mom on the phone and suddenly her speech became slurred and the line went dead. She had thrown a clot into her lungs. But the time EMS got there and got her to hospital, she was dead

How many stories like this do people have to hear before they realize this is not just another virus??!!

From: DanaC
24-Mar-21
Got my first yesterday, felt a bit 'off' this morning, nothing a nap didn't fix.

From: Marty
24-Mar-21
Had covid, so will pass on the shot..at least until more is known. Both my boys and their families are the same way. I have no problem with others choosing to get it.

From: JL
25-Mar-21
Felt very off last night. Slight chill, aches, head fuzzy. Took a 600mg ibuprofen for the body stiffness....never got a fever. About 0400 this morning it was like someone turned a key and poof. Everything went away. When I woke up a bit ago I felt pretty good. Hopefully it's over.

25-Mar-21
^^^^ Not exactly true... at all.

Then explain all the less than 30 year olds and kids. Please.

But here’s a fact.

mRNA – Also known as messenger ribonucleic acid, mRNA is the only active ingredient in the vaccine. The mRNA molecules contain the genetic material that provide instructions for our body on how to make a viral protein that triggers an immune response within our bodies. The immune response is what causes our bodies to make the antibodies needed to protect us from getting infected if exposed to the coronavirus.

I respect freedom of choice and opinion as well.

From: Aspen Ghost
26-Mar-21
Wife and I have had both shots. Many thanks to President Trump for the Trump Vaccine and also to those skeptics who declined the vaccine so my wife and I could get it sooner!

From: BC
26-Mar-21
Had my 2nd Pfizer today. Agree with Aspen. Trump got this done in record time. Can you imagine Biden trying to pull that off. Never would've happened.

From: BSBD
26-Mar-21
I got my second Pfizer yesterday, no reactions with either so far. Anti vaxxers make as much sense to me as the guy wearing a triple mask while biking on the highway.

From: kota-man
26-Mar-21
Wife and I got jabbed by the one shot Johnson and Johnson shot yesterday. I never skipped a beat. Wife is sore and tired today. Says she felt like she got run over by a truck. For me getting it wasn’t an option. I love to travel and hunt and IMO you’re gonna need it to travel some places.

From: Oryx35
26-Mar-21
Got my first dose of Moderna yesterday. 40% of New Mexicans have now had at least a first dose.

From: sleepyhunter
26-Mar-21
I got the Pfizer first shot today going back in 21 days for the second. I was impressed how organized the procedure was set up only waited about 15 minutes.

From: SteveB
29-Mar-21
3 weeks past my second dose of Moderna. Not a single issue.

29-Mar-21

From: 4nolz@work
29-Mar-21
I heard a Dr on the radio today who said if you had it(I did) he doesn't recommend the vaccine has anyone heard this?

29-Mar-21
The only thing I’ve heard is if you had the virus, you can’t get the vaccine right now. I’ve read differing opinions from professionals. 90 to 180 days on antibodies.

At this point, I don’t think anyone knows. So, I’ll take my antibodies and go on with life right now. And, have zero plans on getting it.

From: Glunt@work
30-Mar-21
No one really knows how long antibodies from having Covid or from getting the vaccine last or how much it varies or why. A couple years down the road we will have more info. CDC recommends getting the vaccine if you have had Covid. Some think that s a good reason to take it, some feel thats a decent reason to be skeptical of taking it.

From: Matt
30-Mar-21
"I heard a Dr on the radio today who said if you had it(I did) he doesn't recommend the vaccine has anyone heard this?"

What was his reasoning? Some have suggested a policy that those who have natural immunity due to a COVID infection in the past 90 days delay to allow those who have not to get the vaccine to maximize societal protection.

While I believe the research is limited, from what I have read the response with the vaccine following being COVID positive results in a significantly higher level of antibodies and there is a belief the protection may be more durable than natural immunity.

From: TEmbry
30-Mar-21
I had Covid and still got the vaccine. Second dose of Pfizer today. Sore arm and bruise were my only effects so far.

From: danrobinson
30-Mar-21
I ain't interested in taking a jab, let others take it.

From: Bou'bound
30-Mar-21
has there ever been an example in the history of man where a mass vaccine created a worse outcome than the sickness it designed to thwart.

From: gobbler
30-Mar-21
I’m a retired physician. I’ve had Dr. In front with f my name for 38 years . I read the research and decided I was going to get vaccinated as soon as possible. It’s been a month since my second Moderna vaccination . Soreness in arm after first. Didn’t feel good the day after the second then better the next . All normal and expected results from challenging and priming immune system

From: bb
30-Mar-21
I heard the same thing on a radio show the other day. As usual I tuned in in the middle of the conversation, so I don't know why he was saying that. I never did hear a medical reason. It did sound like he was giving his opinion.

From: KHunter
30-Mar-21
"I ain't interested in taking a jab, let others take it."

Gladly! Thank you for your service to fellow Americans for standing in the breach to let others have immunity from a horrible disease that picks no favorites and runs some folks over with ease and barely touches others.

From: MarkU
01-Apr-21
Got my second Pfizer shot yesterday. No side affects at all.

From: Timberking
01-Apr-21
Yup, got both of my Moderna shots a while ago. Sore arm both times and had a fever for three hours after the second one. Felt great otherwise.

From: txhunter58
01-Apr-21
“ From: danrobinson 30-Mar-21Private Reply I ain't interested in taking a jab, let others take it.”

Thank you so much! I figured it would be May before I got my first. Sitting at the table waiting my 15 min after second this very second :-)

My qualifications: just a veterinarian that knows a little bit about diseases and “herd immunity”. Hope we get there by summer

From: sleepyhunter
01-Apr-21
""Got my second Pfizer shot yesterday. No side affects at all.""

I'm supposed to get my 2nd Pfizer shot 4-16, I've heard some people feel bad after the 2nd shot. I'm going ahead with the shot anyway, and be done with it.

From: Z Barebow
01-Apr-21
2nd shot of Moderna on 3/24. Sore arm, achy, slept like cr@p, minor chills. Went to work the next day. Other than being tired, I was fine 36 hours after shot.

From: Pat Lefemine
01-Apr-21
Got my Phizer shot today.

Tried for 6 weeks in CT and nothing available. Walked into a Right Aid here in Ohio (first time) and got the shot.

From: Bob H in NH
01-Apr-21
"I'm supposed to get my 2nd Pfizer shot 4-16, I've heard some people feel bad after the 2nd shot. I'm going ahead with the shot anyway, and be done with it. "

Feeling bad after the shot, to different levels, is expected. It's your body learning how to fight off the disease. It means your immune system works!

From: Jaquomo
01-Apr-21
I was going to be a tough guy and not get it. Then I got diagnosed with a pulmonary condition that could result in death, or worse (waking up from a coma to learn I was still married to my first wife..) if I got the virus and it settled in my lungs - which is where it seems most comfortable. So I took the needles.

Both doses of Moderna, 10 minute wait each time, slight headache the first day after the first shots nothing the second time. There's a lot we don't know about this virus. May never know. But for me the shot was worth risk.

I fasten my seatbelt, too, and not because the gubmint requires it.

From: txhunter58
01-Apr-21
“I fasten my seatbelt, too, and not because the gubmint requires it.“

Me too but I have to say as a youngster my Daddy required it as did I with my kids. My 16 yr old son tried to test my resolve on that issue and I pulled over and told him we would stop and let him out and pick him back up on the return trip. He fastened it.

From: MathewsMan
01-Apr-21
We got our 2nd Moderna shot today about 3 hours ago. I was sick from my first shot a day or two, but nothing like the 3 weeks in December I had Covid.

I took Ibuprofen and will see if it does anything tonight or tomorrow.

From: Mule Power
02-Apr-21
I have a friend who got both shots. Pfizer. 2 days after the second shot on March 14 and then again on March 16 he was in the ER. Massive clotting in his legs. They turned all purple with dark patches. As of today is still in what ge says is the worst pain he’s ever felt and legs are only about 50% back to normal. Of course we’re worried about a clot coming free and making it’s way to the heart or clotting beginning in his lungs. To each his own but that vax was never ready for use on humans and still isn’t. I’m in Pa, low risk, and already had C19 so I’m last on the list. Hopefully they’ll refine it before I’m eligible.

From: MarkU
02-Apr-21
I have a friend who died today at 1 pm mountain time. From corona virus.

62, non smoker and non drinker, fitness buff, pilot, family man, outdoor enthusiast.

Took his lungs out.

He wasn't old enough for the first vaccine administration, unlucky I guess.

From: Matt
02-Apr-21

Matt's Link
Mulepower, you might want to check the stats on adverse events due to the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. There were 113 deaths and 640 serious adverse events in a sample of 13.8MM. Not inconsequential, but you need to move the decimal a few places when comparing risks associated with the vaccine versus the risk of getting COVID, with the safety benefit in favor of the vaccine.

Sample sizes of 1 are dangerous.

From: Glunt@work
03-Apr-21
If the vaccine works, the risk of getting Covid and not recovering should be extremely low for those that choose not to get it.

With no vaccine, 10% of people got Covid and 98% of those recovered. If a majority of people get the vaccine and it works, the risk for unvaccinated people should plummet.

From: Woods Walker
03-Apr-21
Still waiting........

From: Kevin Dill
03-Apr-21
Mark....I’m sorry to hear about your friend. Really tragic to hear about people being taken from their friends and family way too soon. I have a great friend who almost had his number called by covid, but he survived.

Our county is very rural and lightly populated. We’ve had 52 deaths here r/t the virus. I’m friends with a couple of guys who own funeral homes. Both of them contracted the virus within 3 months of its arrival. Both told me they were very sick, but rode it out at home. Both have prepared bodies of those who died from covid, and have seen the final outcome. They’ve both told me about tragic deaths and subsequent funerals for people in their 40s and 50s. Finally, both of them got the vaccine and now publicly encourage its acceptance.

From: Mule Power
03-Apr-21
I’m looking forward ti getting it actually. All the comments here, on Facebook... wherever are pretty much irrelevant to me. Of course I log them away in my mind but for me it just comes back to Cardinal rules. I wait when new products come onto the market. So there are pros and cons to being last on the list. The cons are obvious. But so are the pros. By the time I make my way to the front of the line it could be a little more well developed. Maybe not!

I lost a good friend last year. Think of him every day. I had another who had a brush with death and pulled through. They wanted to intubate him but he refused and toughed it out. His weight is still way down. It’s real and scary for sure. I can’t imagine anyone not wanting to get the vax at least at some point.

03-Apr-21
^^^This^^^. My doctor seems to agree.

From: soccern23ny
03-Apr-21
I know 2 people who have not been vaccinated who had covid who have been reinfected.

1 caught it when it was first hitting the states and another when he was in italy. They both got reinfected about a year later.

From: Glunt@work
03-Apr-21
Thats really beating the odds to know 2 people reinfected. Everything I have read shows well less than 1% chance and super low if under 60.

From: Basil
04-Apr-21
Happy to have got the second shot yesterday. Fought through some really nasty non Covid related lung issues over the winter. Doubt I could have survived Covid. On the mend now & hoping for a better year for all

04-Apr-21
Wife and I are almost 4 weeks past the second shot with no lasting side effects. Mom had a nasty day of flu-like conditions after the second one. Showed her info on how vaccines are supposed to work...the body may well react...just doing what it should. Someone needs to explain to those who reject getting it why they should. As a 4th grader in 1955 no one explained 'why' to us with respect to polio; they just jabbed us three times over three months. Dr. Salk got it right. Hope the docs have these vaccines right. Trump pushed it through! Where is POTUS Harris?

From: 70lbdraw
05-Apr-21

70lbdraw's Link
China Joe is offering a $500,000.00 contest to design a better face mask?

This should tell you all you need to know about where this is going.

From: Rob Nye
05-Apr-21
Just booked appointment for 1st shot April 8

05-Apr-21
I had both, zero side effects.

From: JohnMC
05-Apr-21
Going with Matts number above the number of deaths (113) are much lower than you would expect from 13.8 million people with or without getting the shot. The average American lives to on average to 78.54 years. That is 28,667 days. If you divided that into 13,800,000. You expect about 481 of those people to die each day. Of course that does not take into account the age or other factors that those people face. But I think it is safe to say of the first 13.8 million to get the shot the average age would be quite high plus other risk factors for death. I would except deaths after the covid shot to be higher than that.

From: spike78
05-Apr-21

spike78's Link
Yeah tell that to this girl.

From: spike78
05-Apr-21
And if she didn’t die from the vaccine at 39 after 4 days then that is one HELL of a coincidence.

From: JohnMC
05-Apr-21
So you think you got a better chance of dying from the Covid shot then you do of dying of Covid - Regardless if you are 20 something in perfect health or 99 with 10 different risk factors?

From: Chuckster
05-Apr-21
Wife and I are getting are second Pfizer shot tomorrow. Only had sore arms for 48 hours after the first one. Little concerned I might get knocked down for a day or two after the 2nd shot.

05-Apr-21
It’s amazing to me that nobody is dying from anything else like the normal flu or diabetes or heart disease anymore and the list goes on in regards of such minimal loss of life to all the problems and diseases that used to kill us. But look up the covid figures and that will make your head spin. Now that the CDC has that figured out and people are only dying from the China Flu now, it’s just a matter of time humans will be immortal with the vaccines hitting the market. Accept those in liberal cities still dying from gunshots despite the toughest gun laws in America.....

From: spike78
05-Apr-21
John if you read about the statistics of 300 plus million people in the US that contracted Covid then look at the % of people that died from it then honestly I think I’d take the risk without the vaccine. I may never contract Covid but taking the vaccine you are guaranteed to take the risk of it so let that sink in. I work with a guy that weighs 350 pounds high blood pressure and diabetes that is same age as me 42 and his Covid hell was a cough and feeling like crap for one day and I never caught it. So I’m taking my chances without it.

From: spike78
05-Apr-21
Just did some math and unless I’m wrong .16% of the US population died from Covid. Now take into consideration that the hospitals are calling everything a Covid death it is even smaller then that.

From: Matt
05-Apr-21
Very sad story, but perhaps no more sad than any of the almost 8,000 US COVID deaths in those age 39 or younger.

From: Matt
05-Apr-21

Matt's Link
"It’s amazing to me that nobody is dying from anything else like the normal flu or diabetes or heart disease anymore..."

I presume you are unaware that the 2020 US mortality estimates were released last week and heart disease - which apparently no one dies of any more - was the #1 cause of death. But go on, learn us more please...

From: JohnMC
05-Apr-21
Spike I'll be the first to tell you I think the reaction to Covid was over blown, especially the way they shutdown the country. But I have also seen the effects of Covid first hand. I knew two people very well that have died and one of them in the last couple of weeks and several other that ended up in the hospital. I am not a mask wearer. The data is not there for them being effective and I have a huge problem with them being mandatory. With that said I am getting by first shot tomorrow. I think the evidence is there that shows it works and it is safe. I could careless if anyone else gets it that up to them. But the stats don't lie. If you are playing the odds it makes since to get the needle.

From: Kevin Dill
05-Apr-21
My entire family is now vaccinated. Nobody had anything worse than 12 hours of feeling puny. Most had a sore arm and that was it. We’re all still doing the same things (precautions) we did before the vaccine. No sweat.

From: spike78
05-Apr-21
I would like to see the effectiveness of the vaccine if people are still getting covid then it’s pointless. If people don’t get well then it’s really hard to tell whether it was effective or just luck. I have never taken a flu shot and the last time I got the flu was approx 24 years ago or later. I’m hoping my odds are good.

From: JohnMC
05-Apr-21
Spike there is major data out there on the effectiveness of the vaccine. In clinic studies virtually no one got seriously sick from Covid, very few got it at all in those study and many of those that did only had it because it showed up on weekly Covid test they received in the study. The vaccine works that not debatable.

I don't have the patience or maybe the smarts to explain clinic trials to you. But I worked for big pharm for about 15 years. I get clinic trials. The statically probability of the results being "luck" are probably similar to you when the power ball 3 times in a row.

From: creed
05-Apr-21
When this first started I thought it was way overblown and used for political gain. It was but that doesn't change the fact that it can kill you. I got it and ended up in the hospital. I have permanent heart damage from covid. I swore at one time hell would freeze over before I would take the vaccination. If I could do it over and knew what I know now I would be the first in line.

From: Kevin Dill
05-Apr-21
Hi Charlie,

The main reason we still do the precautions is because 1) most businesses here have signs on the door requesting mask use, 2) we have always practiced good hand hygiene as we’re both health care professionals, and 3) we have supported the 3 Ws from the beginning and think it’s still the socially responsible thing to do until the infection rate (% +) drops to low levels. And as I always say, we avoid judgment and think everyone has the ultimate right to decide how to live in their own spaces.

From: Matt
05-Apr-21
"I would like to see the effectiveness of the vaccine if people are still getting covid then it’s pointless."

Pardon my skepticism, but the results for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were released in 2020 and were leading story/front page news. If you cared, you'd know.

Those vaccines have an effectiveness in the mid-90% range. To suggest that it is pointless if they are not 100% effective is simply ignorant.

From: MathewsMan
05-Apr-21
My second Moderna shot wasn’t as bad as my first.

Consequently- One of our health care providers here that had his second shot about 2 months ago has Covid pretty bad this week.

From: JohnMC
06-Apr-21
I am now half vaccinated and made it through with no mask and only was only half the baby the guy in the video was!

From: Norseman
06-Apr-21
Just got my first shot of Moderna. I have asthma and Hypertension so I jumped up a decade in the waiting list.

My clinic is doing a terrible job notifying their patients. They only get 100 doses a week. My wife got ill for a good 36 hours after her second shot, which is common.

06-Apr-21
Some people still catch it, but the data show a few things: One is that almost no one gets really sick. Two is that the amount of virus in your nasal passages is a fraction the average person so transmissibility is a fraction of what it would otherwise be. Three is that people who've had both shots and it's been 2 weeks from their second, are not dying and being hospitalized in the thousands.

The vaccines have been a blessing. There is no reason to not get it at this point other than being stubborn and/or holding to some righteous partisanship - ie: cutting off your nose to spite your face.

From: Thornton
06-Apr-21

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo
We'll know the fail rate next year when the CDC publishes it. I've already treated 5 patients with severe reactions to the vaccine.

From: Matt
06-Apr-21
Thornton, interesting. On one hand, only 246 COVID positive out of 1.7MM vaccinated would mean the infection rate is just a fraction of 1% of those fully vaccinated (probably a bad stat as I doubt they tested everyone, and some who were vaccinated probably still show positive from prior infection) which would speak to the effectiveness of the vaccine.

On the other hand, it would be interesting to know what killed the 3 who died because I believe the number of COVID deaths in the clinical trials which had many times more participants had essentially 0 deaths or even hospitalizations.

Not sure about Michigan, but it sounds like Quebec and Ontario (as well as BC) are getting hit with the UK variant (B.1.1.7) which is acting more quickly, sickening much younger people, and they are claiming has a death rate that is ~50% greater than the original.

07-Apr-21
Are you still there Matt? I almost couldn’t hear you with your 3 masks and your face shield on. Yes I was exaggerating and being just a tad sarcastic. Are you denying that Covid death numbers are being exaggerated?

From: Jackaroo
07-Apr-21

Jackaroo's embedded Photo
Jackaroo's embedded Photo
Got mine ;)

From: Rickm
07-Apr-21
Just got first dose Pfizer today. Wife is done with both doses. I am really unsure if I will get my 16 year old done. Depends on what school and sports requir next fall.

From: Matt
07-Apr-21

Matt's Link
"Are you denying that Covid death numbers are being exaggerated?"

Politicized, yes. Exaggerated? I have seen some obvious examples of instances where COVID was allegedly listed as the cause of death where it obviously was not, but is the total exaggerated? I do not think so. Excess deaths in the US in 2020 was 523K. While certainly not all were due to COVID, it makes the 345K 2020 US COVID deaths believable. Some medical experts are saying that COVID deaths were likely undercounted given the significant lack of testing capacity early on, which is likewise plausible given the excess death figure.

From: Chuckster
07-Apr-21
I'm about 32 hours post second Pfizer vaccine dose and honestly, I have had zero side effects. The injection site was just slightly sore today. Even did shoulders, triceps, traps and chest at the gym today. My wife on the other hand, woke up fine this morning but by midday was getting the chills. They lasted about 3-4 hours and she's all good now.

From: 'Ike'
07-Apr-21
Get #2 on Monday....

From: Matt
08-Apr-21
Had my Pfizer #1 yesterday, 24 hours later and zero side effects so far.

From: Drnaln
08-Apr-21
Wife & I just got our 1st Pfizer shot today. Wasn't going to do the vaccine but wanted to travel to a couple different states later this year. 1st needle for me in many years.

From: Rob Nye
09-Apr-21
First Moderna shot yesterday. All good so far so far so so far so far so fa

From: JRABQ
09-Apr-21
Got my 2nd Moderna shot Wednesday, 2 days ago. I did feel a bit crappy yesterday but seem ok today. My wife and I had the first shot about 6 weeks ago with no side effects other than sore spot on arm. Personal choice if you don't want to get vaccine, totally get that. My brother almost died from Covid, and is still suffering from the effects, so I figured the vaccine was worth the risks, hope I'm right.

From: Chuckster
09-Apr-21
My 38YO son got covid from his wife who got it from a deaf employee at the school she works at. My DIL had to remove her mask so the deaf co worker could read her lips. My son is still dealing with minor lung issues 4 months after getting covid, and he has asthma also.

From: Thornton
12-Apr-21
I will never get a viral vaccine. Rapid mutation makes most of them worthless, not to mention I've treated 7 patients in ER with reaction the covid vaccine.

13-Apr-21
Got my 2nd one today...So fa, so good!

From: KsRancher
13-Apr-21
Got my second dose of Moderna yesterday morning. Shivered so bad a long last night that my knees wont hardly work this morning

From: x-man
13-Apr-21
1st dose of Moderna yesterday. I can feel it in my arm but that's it.

From: Ken Taylor
13-Apr-21
After my first dose of Moderna, besides soreness (which doesn't ever bother me in the least), I had no side effects.

My wife and I got the second dose yesterday evening. This morning she is fine - I feel "woozy", weak, and slightly feverish. In fact, I didn't feel up to my scheduled bow practice this morning.

At 68, with mild asthma, a history of bronchitis and pneumonia, and slow growing (?, lol!) prostrate cancer, I'm still glad that I got it no matter what the statistics are.

14-Apr-21
Second Phizer shot last Friday. Arm was a bit sore, fertilized and limed the lawn on Saturday and took a good two mile walk. Felt a little crappy and sore that evening, by Sunday, all good.

From: DanaC
14-Apr-21
Got #2 (pfizer) yesterday. Bit of trouble falling asleep last night but there's other crap going on in my life, so...

More annoyed that my bowstring broke on the first shot of the evening!

14-Apr-21
The wife and I got our j&j last Friday.

From: MQQSE
14-Apr-21

MQQSE's embedded Photo
MQQSE's embedded Photo
Wife and I have had both shots and all went well.

I saw this on Facebook this AM and found it interesting. Where I live never shut down, never masked, never did anything and here are our current numbers. We are rural which helps for sure too. Sure wish Canada could figure things out and open the border.

From: Treeline
14-Apr-21
Kind of shocked.

At less than 0.03%, with a good immune system, vitamin D, and ivermectin, I’ll take my chances versus the potential side effects that may not show up for years...

Actually quite surprised there has not been a major uprising over the stripping of everyone’s rights, freedom, and so many people’s livelihoods over all of this insanity.

Will certainly continue to pray for our country and all the people affected by this insanity.

From: Thornton
14-Apr-21
Treeline, insanity it is. I work with an ER physician that also has a large family practice clinic. He survived covid and was even hospitalized with it. He said every employee he has got covid even with strict protocol for N95 masks and gowns. He's completely against masking now and states he has lost faith in several aspects of how the pandemic was ran by his colleagues and gov't. Ditto on the Ivermectin. Lots of people took it including myself with excellent results.

From: Matt
15-Apr-21
Clinical studies on ivermectin showed no benefit for COVID. You might google it.

From: bowhunt
15-Apr-21
Got first dose of Moderna today. No side affects yet. I mostly got the vaccine hoping that makes a trip to Hawaii in July easier. Also both parents have had cancer, and brother had MS so hoping not to give them Covid. Hoping for a mostly normal life after vaccine.

Most people I know that have caught the virus had very little symptoms, one person died.

From: DanaC
15-Apr-21
The long term effects of a Covid infection ? Too soon to tell. You might get it, have mild symptoms, recover, only to find that there is lasting damage that wasn't apparent. Weighing that against long term effects of the vaccine, I got the shots.

From: Bowbender
15-Apr-21
"Spike there is major data out there on the effectiveness of the vaccine."

Really? No. Really? A vaccine that is less than one year old has major data? Long term efficacy? None? Long term side effects? None. WE are the clinicals and long term trials. And THAT is my issue with the vaccine.

15-Apr-21
Got my first dose. Pfizer. No issues.

From: bigswivle
15-Apr-21
Man you could get some awesome fake IDs 20 years ago in college, not gonna be hard to get my vaccine card

From: DanaC
15-Apr-21
So, 20 years out of college and you're still a weasel? Some education...

From: bigswivle
15-Apr-21
LOL, a little sensitive there snowflake

From: Hackbow
15-Apr-21
"So, 20 years out of college and you're still a weasel? Some education..."

Amazing, isn't it, that the same people who support the breaking of laws by tens of millions of illegals will turn around and attempt to shame actual Citizens for even joking about circumventing a system that is actively being implemented to reduce our rights, freedoms and liberties. The leftist brain is truly addled.

bigswivle - let me know when you find a hook-up. ;o)

From: bigswivle
15-Apr-21
Who cares if someone doesn’t want the vaccine. Good lord

From: BIGERN
15-Apr-21

BIGERN's embedded Photo
BIGERN's embedded Photo
Guess I've got 6-9 months left.....

From: BIGERN
15-Apr-21
Guess I've got 6-9 months left.....

From: Hackbow
15-Apr-21
"Who cares if someone doesn’t want the vaccine. Good lord"

Obviously, the snowflakes who are so afraid of the China virus (or anything they're told to fear) they piss their pants at the thought of anyone not complying with Big Brother's marching orders. They are embarrassed for not standing up for themselves and their rights. So, they compensate by trying to ridicule or shame those don't need big gov to tell them what to do, how to do it and when.

From: txhunter58
15-Apr-21
“ From: Matt 15-Apr-21Private Reply Clinical studies on ivermectin showed no benefit for COVID. You might google it.”

That’s the problem with Google. You can find any position on any subject you want. Please post links to credible science that says ivermectin doesn’t help. I haven’t seen that. Quite a few that indicate it might be helpful.

15-Apr-21
It is sad. Nutsacks running around the internet shaming professionals like Thornton who make a living treating sick people. Because they think his experience and, the advice of so many other non Faucci professionals is irrelevant in the face of their fear. They’ll hide it behind compassion for mankind. When it’s nothing more then an individual decision that doesn’t align with the indoctrination of mainstream thought. Rightfully so. I rarely trust anyone making a living in a suit and tie while lecturing others about a job that you can’t do in a suit and tie. This is no different.

Throughout history, the best minds and people among human kind have always been ridiculed for their taboo thoughts and beliefs. And, history has shown they weren’t that taboo at all. I’m pretty certain that’s the “science” of this virus.

I’m happy for those that’s got it. I’m happy it’s available. I think it’s likely safe. Especially in the short term. But, I’m willing to let my fellow man decide if it’s for him. Without all the shaming and condescending talk.

You almost stand a better chance of choking to death on a hotdog then dying from this. But, if it makes Dana and Matt feel better, let’s throw out logic and human rights. Yeah boy. Sign me up.

From: DanaC
15-Apr-21
Let me give you a hint - everyone who won't get it uses the same logic - 'I'm afraid for me.'

I'm more afraid of infecting a friend, or my brother, or one of my sisters. Or any of the people I come in daily contact with. But you all go on bleating about 'leftist politics.'

From: Jackaroo
15-Apr-21

Jackaroo's embedded Photo
Jackaroo's embedded Photo
Recent studies have shown that men under 40 today have lower testosterone than a 68 year old man did 20 years ago. Rise of the soyboy.

From: DanaC
15-Apr-21
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210407/erectile-dysfunction-risk-6-times-higher-in-men-with-covid

From: JohnMC
15-Apr-21
Dana that is a dumb statement by a lefty(you) that is more worried about doing something because it feels good than any other reason.

I have gotten my first vaccine because I have looked at the data and I believe it is safe and effective and I don't want to get the China Virus. With that said anyone I could infect if I didn't get it has had the choice to get it or not get it. Anyone high risk was eligible to get the vaccine long before me. If they don't get vaccinated and get the China Virus that is on them. It is not mine or anyone else responsibility to get a vaccine they are not comfortable getting to protect someone else that decided not to get vaccinated.

Get the vaccine if you are comfortable getting. Don't get it if you are not comfortable getting. If you are not comfortable getting that is your call, but no need to call out those that are comfortable getting it. Same with us that are comfortable getting vaccinated that is our choice. Not our place to berate those that don't want to get it.

From: Treeline
15-Apr-21
No. I am not afraid for me, DanaC. I have certainty in my life and what will happen afterwards.

I have significant concerns for humanity, freedom and God given rights. The last year has not given me much hope for humanity.

I truly would have never dreamed I would ever see so many Americans blindly run to follow all of the baseless unscientific mandates and rush to get a shot that has the potential of massively changing humanity. Blindly putting faith in the MSM, big pharma, big tech, and politicians that the jab is necessary.

Throwing away their basic human rights and demanding mine!

The attacks on religion, individual freedom, and censorship of anything not following the narrative are not what this country was founded on not what its people believed in. Not that long ago, our fathers, grandfathers, sons and daughters went to wars with other countries overseas to free their people from this kind of tyranny and oppression.

99.97% survivable. Far lower fatality than the flu. Improved treatment using safe, effective, inexpensive drugs that have been in use for many years with minimal side effects.

No, the FEAR has gripped far to many in this country and around the world. Hopefully people come to their senses and see how baseless that FEAR really was before it’s too late.

Hell, may already be too late.

Communism is the virus. Covid is just how it was spread...

From: bigswivle
15-Apr-21

bigswivle's embedded Photo
This made me laugh
bigswivle's embedded Photo
This made me laugh

From: DanaC
15-Apr-21
John, you keep labeling me a 'lefty' because of what? I give a sh* about people other than myself? Because I prefer bolt action rifles to AR's and recurves to crossbows? Because I despise Trump?

I don't march in lock-step to the 'conservative' agenda, never have, but if you just have to label me, maybe try 'libertarian.' I might even agree ;-)

15-Apr-21
My "logic" was simply there are side effects to vaccines, and we now know there are also, and potentially life-long, side effects with Covid. At 62, diabetic, but otherwise in good health, active, vitamin taker, and wanting to remain that way for the 14 years or so the actuary tables say I will most likely live, I decided to take it because if there are long term side effects, I won't be here for them. Second consideration is simply IMO based on what I have read and learned is that the more time, and more hosts this virus finds, the more chances it has to mutate into something worse or the vaccines are not effective against which leads me to believe we should all be encouraged to receive the vaccine, but not forced to.

Is that logical thinking, or does that make me a Marxist nut sack that just does what the government tells me to do? Asking for a friend.

One warning about those counterfeit vaccination cards, don't get caught with one in MN or you might end up face down, handcuffed, with a knee to your neck/shoulders and unable to breathe.

From: JohnMC
15-Apr-21
Dana you are off to a good start. Keep going...

Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and political freedom, emphasizing free association, freedom of choice, individualism and voluntary association. Libertarians share a skepticism of authority and state power, but some of them diverge on the scope of their opposition to existing economic and political systems

In fact that sounds a lot like Trump republicans.

Sorry that does not fit your post on here even a little bit.

From: spike78
15-Apr-21
John he meant liberal tarian ;)

From: Grey Ghost
15-Apr-21
JohnMC plagiarizing from Wikipedia. So cute.

Matt

From: Matt
15-Apr-21

Matt's Link
"That’s the problem with Google. You can find any position on any subject you want. Please post links to credible science that says ivermectin doesn’t help. I haven’t seen that. Quite a few that indicate it might be helpful."

I linked one of the few studies I read. My take away was that, although there were some measures that showed improvement with ivermectin, they fell into the statistically insignificant category. Not a treatment I personally would hang my hat on.

I do wonder how many guys have run down to the feed store after reading the comment....

From: DanaC
15-Apr-21
John, I see no conflict between being libertarian and *still* giving a damn about others. That's a BS narrative that's been floated since Ayn Rand was still writing.

From: Ermine
15-Apr-21
Been running a few calls at work lately related to adverse reactions to the vaccine. Kind of concerning

I know two people who have died shortly after getting the vaccine due to blood clots. I personally don’t know two people who died from covid although I know there were deaths

From: Stix
15-Apr-21
There has been some evidence that the vaccines have been successful. From the data posted here in Colorado, a majority of the new cases are below age 60. This is a reversal from earlier in the pandemic, as most of the vaccinations have gone to age 60+. Justification in my book to get the vaccine.

From: Matt
15-Apr-21
It is interesting to me that the people who complain the loudest about the loss of freedoms and economic damage due to COVID still have not come to the understanding that herd immunity achieved through widespread vaccination is the fastest way to regain what you think we have lost and to get the economy fully re-opened.

From: Hackbow
15-Apr-21
Treeline - your latest post above is one of the best ever. Ditto. Unfortunately, libtards are so stupid they continually redefine words to convey the opposite of the original meaning. That kind of backwards thinking makes them next to impossible to reform. When the basis for their "caring for others" is mandated and forced behavior via threat of government guns, it is plain to see they are irretrievably lost.

From: Hackbow
15-Apr-21
"One warning about those counterfeit vaccination cards, don't get caught with one in MN or you might end up face down, handcuffed, with a knee to your neck/shoulders and unable to breathe."

Not if you comply with police officer orders. Glad to see you've come full circle on your cop-hating ways after all these years, HfW.

From: Hackbow
15-Apr-21
It is interesting to me that the people who complain the loudest about those who stand for their own freedoms and economic sovereignty still have never come to the understanding that freedom isn't free and can only be achieved through the widespread practice of the rights enumerated in The Constitution, not fear-based, controlled, behavior that only increases reliance and dependence on a centralized government. The fastest way to regain what has been stolen is to take back the authority we've abdicated and demand of our REPRESENTATIVES that the economy be fully opened with no restrictions. - There ya go Matt, I changed up your words just a bit to reflect a more historically accurate mindset for a Constitution-loving American Citizen.

From: Treeline
15-Apr-21
Excellent, Hackbow.

From: Nomad @ work
15-Apr-21
God I miss the Community Forum! ;)

15-Apr-21
Hack bow,

That was specifically posted for irrational, far right wing whackos like you that I knew it would agitate. Thanks, a good day when one can return fire;-)

From: lamb
15-Apr-21
DANA if you think you're protecting your loved ones because of the shot sadly mistaken. el paso 750 people who had the shots got covid and they say its a drop in the bucket to the real numbers. you should look up the miracle drug thalidomide they gave to pregant women in the 50's . thousands of birth defects. let's see the long term effects of covid shot??? if you cared about people you'd be down at the border helping those poor illegals. with our esteemed V.P.

From: Matt
15-Apr-21
"The fastest way to regain what has been stolen is to take back the authority we've abdicated and demand of our REPRESENTATIVES that the economy be fully opened with no restrictions."

And you are going to do that how exactly?

From: Hackbow
15-Apr-21
HfW - you may be the only one on this site that believes you could possibly think that far ahead. You are, however, fairly adept at backpedaling because of all the practice over the years. You were a cop hater when you showed up here and are still taking jabs at them today. You've just learned to adjust your tone so a few will buy your into your "thoughtful moderate" routine.

From: Bob H in NH
15-Apr-21
Personally I've seen, and got more grief because I CHOSE to get the shot than those that don't get it. I have no issue either way, I just hope people are making the decision based on logic, not conspiracy theories or other junk. There is PLENTY of valid medical data on both sides, decide for yourself, your condition, your health, your life. Then execute on that decision - get the shot or not.

From: Hackbow
15-Apr-21
"And you are going to do that how exactly?"

Matt - call, write, email, show-up, complain, bitch, drive them crazy, etc. until they actually represent us. Vote them out, support their opponents, boycott their backers, never let down. It takes work, but if they won't represent our views, they need to be made miserable. If they ultimately refuse to stop their tyranny, there is an enumerated right that addresses that issue.

The biggest problem is that too many don't care to be involved in the actual political process. Hence, I give no RINO, libtard or chicken-little any quarter when it comes to this stuff. I don't care if one is afraid of their own shadow, I refuse to be. I don't care if one wants the Indoctrination Inoculation, I refuse. If one wants to wear a behavioral control device on their face and jump on the virtue signaling bandwagon, good for them - I'm not interested.

What I am interested in is being able to live my life as outlined in The Constitution with a fedgov constrained by the same.

From: Matt
15-Apr-21
And you think that will happen faster than June 15, 2021? That is the date that our state is planning to fully reopen the economy based on herd immunity achieved through vaccination.

15-Apr-21
Hackbow,

I don't back peddle or mince words. Only extremists like you will claim someone is a cop hater who is willing to call out the cops who abuse their authority, which is exactly what our FF would expect us to do. And the ones who abuse their authority are in the vast minority, like every profession.

And, I call those officers out whether they abused their authority against a minority or non-minority, whereas obviously we have seen some extremists who have different standards for minorities.

From: Will
15-Apr-21
I'm 24hrs out from Pfizer #1. Left delt (where I got the shot) is a teeny bit sore, less than if I'd bruised it... just sort of noticeable. And that's it.

Looking forward to shot 2, in 3 weeks.

I tend to agree with Bob on a lot of his post. If you are unsure, talk to your medical provider and find out if they feel if it makes sense for you. They do, unquestionably, know more about it relative to you than anyone you will see on the news or read from in any online platform.

Also - Ivermectin and covid, please understand that Merck, who MAKES THE DANG STUFF has publicly noted it does NOT work for COVID. Zero. Ziltch. Bumpkiss. Tweedledee doo. Nada. Nuttin. They could make gazillions by just pretending it worked and trying to get folks to prescribe it (tough to do with zero evidence though)... https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/

Then again I have a friend who is still convinced it's a cure all because their chiropractor showed them a study about how in a petri dish it could kill covid - dish soap does too, just sayin... and despite the reams of evidence it does zero... the misinformation/pseudoscience world has kept pushing it a bit.

Also note, that the medical community wants, BADLY, to help every person they see. If you seriously believe physicians, NP's, PA's, etc would choose to stop (HCQ for example) using a drug or NOT use a drug (ivermectin for example) that had evidence it worked for some secret reason, you are wrong.

From: Hackbow
15-Apr-21
"And you think that will happen faster than June 15, 2021? That is the date that our state is planning to fully reopen the economy based on herd immunity achieved through vaccination."

Matt, I never said or implied that. What I have said, multiple times and ways is that the damage done by closing down our country is FAR greater than the lives lost to the China virus. The control exerted over us, and welcomed by so many sheeple, has irreparably harmed our nation. Had we not imprisoned innocent, healthy people against their will, we may well have already achieved herd immunity. With forced isolation we may well have prolonged the time it takes to reach it. Regardless, I don't give a crap about a date certain on herd immunity. I give a crap about freedoms and being able to choose how to live for ourselves. No tiny scrap of possible safety or security is worth suspending or giving away our God-given rights as Citizens. If you're afraid, by all means wrap yourself in a bubble inside your home and refuse to interact with others, wear your behavioral control devices and volunteer to be a pincushion for big pharma. I truly believe you should have all those choices. Just don't force your fears and beliefs onto the rest of us by the heavy, punitive hand of govt.

From: Matt
15-Apr-21
"The fastest way to regain what has been stolen is to take back the authority we've abdicated and demand of our REPRESENTATIVES that the economy be fully opened with no restrictions."

If you didn't say that, what did you mean by your comment above?

I find it interesting that some people automatically ascribe "fear" as the reason that people would get vaccinated, perhaps it helps them rationalize their decisions? The things I am concerned about - not in fear of - are the economy, people's livelihoods, and the amount of debt our nation will be passing along to our children. The faster we are done with the pandemic-related restrictions, the better. If I have take on some risk of the unknown to advance the greater good, so be it. It used to be that self-sacrifice was an American value. Now it seems like some use terms like "freedom", "liberty", and "patriotism" as euphemisms for entitlement.

15-Apr-21
Science should dictate whether one gets vaccinated. Plenty of data that shows the vast majority will survive without a vaccine. You know? Like the regular flu? I’ve said it before. Get the vaccine if it’s your choice. Don’t get it if it’s your choice. Freedom of choice seems to only apply if you’re killing babies.........

From: Treeline
15-Apr-21
Matt,

The “pandemic” restrictions were based on false premise with unconstitutional stripping of individual rights and freedoms.

You are justifying the striping of rights, freedom and pursuit of livelihood from your fellow man in your assertions. The forcible imposition of your will and beliefs on those that share a difference of opinion.

Step back, take a deep breath and think about what you are saying.

Is this the America you really want?

From: Matt
15-Apr-21
I am not justifying anything, just looking at the rules we are being forced to live by and trying to chart the most practical and expeditious path out of it.

Writing letters to my congressman and playing Constitutional scholar on the internet are not going to get us there.

From: bigswivle
15-Apr-21
“And you think that will happen faster than June 15, 2021? That is the date that our state is planning to fully reopen the economy based on herd immunity achieved through vaccination.“

LOL, we’re rocking down here in Florida(way before vaccine ever was distributed). Sorry u live in a state that controls your life

From: Treeline
15-Apr-21
Rock on, brother!

From: Bowbender
15-Apr-21
“And you think that will happen faster than June 15, 2021? That is the date that our state is planning to fully reopen the economy based on herd immunity achieved through vaccination.“

Ironic. That's about the time the effectivness of the Pfizer vaccine starts wearing off.

Then.... we can "look at the rules we are being forced to live by and trying to chart the most practical and expeditious path out of it."

Kinda funny someone criticizes those that espouse freedom and constitutional restraint on government overeach and at the same time licking the boot upon their neck. Because complacency is the governments best friend.

From: KsRancher
15-Apr-21
Bigswivle. Thats what I want to hear. We were planning a family vacation to the NE states this summer. With all their BS covid restrictions they have up there, we switched it up and flying to Florida instead.

From: RK
15-Apr-21
Florida Mississippi Texas rock

I still have tournament plans for Maryland. New Jersey North Carolina and South Carolina No matter what

From: drycreek
15-Apr-21
I got my second Moderna vaccine shot last Saturday. Had chills and a low grade fever Saturday night and I felt like a big dog turd for the next few days. Feeling a little better today and hope the trend continues. I haven’t been able to shake the Covid symptoms since I had it in December though. I read that upwards of 40% of the “long haulers” get over the symptoms after their second shot. Hope so, but I’m sure I’ll be one of the lucky ones and keep on having this crap until I die.

From: Matt
15-Apr-21
"Ironic. That's about the time the effectivness of the Pfizer vaccine starts wearing off.'

That's a lie, not surprising.

From: Hackbow
15-Apr-21
Matt, your medical knowledge and explanations have been very enlightening and far exceed what I personally understand about the China virus. I tend to break things down into the simplest of terms. Here are my bullet-pointed thoughts on the entire matter:

The China virus is real.

It is definitely the reason that a small percentage of people have died and another unknown, but still small, percentage have/will have lingering/lifetime complications.

Life is not without risk.

Bad shit happens all the time.

The United States was formed by brilliant men who acknowledged Man's God-given rights to live a life free from centralized government control.

In your current parlance, I *identify* as a free man.

In my never-changing parlance, I AM a free man.

I accept that MY decisions may have negative consequences for ME.

I reject that you, or anyone else, has authority over me.

I neither want, nor will attempt, to exert authority over you.

If one attempts to exert authority over me, they are an enemy of my freedom and me.

It's really that simple. The tenets of The Constitution are immutable. Being locked up against our will, being forced to wear behavioral control devices and having our free movements controlled by coerced medical procedures is unacceptable to me. I will not comply. The cost of subjugation is too great.

15-Apr-21
5 days into 2nd dose of Moderna and all good...

From: MQQSE
15-Apr-21
I have side effects from hiking down to the bottom of this thread.

From: Bowbender
16-Apr-21
"That's a lie, not surprising."

Worked in Pharma for 8 years. Have no reason to lie. This was an untested, unproven vaccine, dumped on an all too compliant society. Feel free to Google yourself. Study after study shows it's efficacy runs about 6 months. They "think" it should run longer, but given they've been wrong OR have changed positions numerous times, let's just say if I was a betting man, these restrictions and mandates will be in place for quite sometime.

This was a perfect opportunity or crisis for government at federal and state levels. And we know what the democrats think of a "good crisis". Not an anti-vaxxer by any means. Except for this one. And that is because of the timline and lack of long term data. Period.

From: milnrick
16-Apr-21
Millie (61) and I (68) took our 2nd Moderna on 4/8 (Thursday).

We looked at the decision the same as we did long term care plans or insurance meaning "something you might not need -- until you need it).

Only reaction was our arms were sore and we were both tired as heck the day of the shot.

The day after the shot we mowed 5 acres and started getting ready to till last years food plots under.

From: Grey Ghost
16-Apr-21
I suppose it's just coincidance that Florida was one of the first states to lift restrictions, and now they have the largest outbreak of new Covid cases.

Matt

16-Apr-21
Matt,

It’s caused by all the illegal, excuse me, undocumented, migrants coming through our newly porous border.

HDYLMN? ;-)

16-Apr-21
Grey Ghost -

I got vaccinated. I’m not a vaccine denier, but math matters.

Illinois has 57% of the population of Florida. Despite Florida’s aged population, not operating under a lockdown and its tourism, and with the “largest outbreak of new Covid cases”, Illinois has 55% of the Active Covid cases of Florida. What I would call a statistically insignificant difference.

Why is Florida running neck and neck with Illinois despite its demographics and tourism and lack of restrictions as risk multipliers? Would Illinois be worse off if it’s economy were freed?

Why no big difference?

From: Grey Ghost
16-Apr-21
"Would Illinois be worse off if it’s economy were freed?"

In terms of new Covid cases, probably.

Matt

From: midwest
16-Apr-21
On a per capita basis, Michigan leads the way in daily new infections. They still have a mask mandate, most businesses are limited to 50% capacity, and 11 pm curfew for bars and restaurants.

From: Hackbow
16-Apr-21

Hackbow's embedded Photo
Hackbow's embedded Photo
Hackbow's embedded Photo
Hackbow's embedded Photo
Hackbow's embedded Photo
Hackbow's embedded Photo
Hackbow's embedded Photo
Hackbow's embedded Photo
"In terms of new Covid cases, probably."

Thank you for your expert opinion Dr. GG

The following screen shots are from the CDC website. This is the latest info for a few states mentioned above. Libs are f'in idiots.

From: Hackbow
16-Apr-21

Hackbow's embedded Photo
Hackbow's embedded Photo

From: Hackbow
16-Apr-21

Hackbow's embedded Photo
Hackbow's embedded Photo

From: Hackbow
16-Apr-21
Forced imprisonments and the wearing of behavioral control devices are OBVIOUSLY working incredibly well, lol.

16-Apr-21
Grey Ghost -

I’m just saying that there doesn’t seem to be a correlation like I would expect.

My oldest has asthma. I’m being as prudent as possible. We’ve been successful in avoiding Covid in my immediate family... so far.

Something else has to be in play though.

Logic dictates that Texas and Florida should have much higher per capita numbers than Illinois, but they don’t.

People can make fun of me for my precautions. I’m not going to change my approach. I’m pretty much simply following the directions that I got from my grandmother when I was a kid. Seems to make sense to me and I don’t think it’s onerous.

But I am sitting at work, within 100 yards of at least a half dozen businesses that have closed and many more that are in dire straits.

The lockdowns here have had a very real detrimental impact on real people and there doesn’t seem to be any real, readily visible benefit to the infection rate compared to areas that aren’t killing their businesses and destroying people’s livelihoods.

From: txhunter58
16-Apr-21
Thx Hack for such a scientific review of how masks and restrictions are not working ;-)

Could it be there are a lot of other factors at work as well??? Such as in my state of Texas. Here it could be that our big numbers of cases in the past (when we removed restrictions) along with our present massive vaccine program, are helping us reach some semblance of herd immunity.

You can pretty much make statistics say whatever you want them to say, but it’s never that simple.

From: txhunter58
16-Apr-21

From: bigswivle
16-Apr-21
“I suppose it's just coincidance that Florida was one of the first states to lift restrictions, and now they have the largest outbreak of new Covid cases.“

So chase your beloved tarpon in Colorado, don’t come down here.

From: Jackaroo
16-Apr-21

Jackaroo's embedded Photo
Jackaroo's embedded Photo
This is all you need to know

From: txhunter58
16-Apr-21
Orion’s:

A thoughtful and well thought out post. You bring up valid points. And I agree with you: the time for keeping businesses closed or restricted is past. People can choose for themselves at this point.

But it does also, in my opinion, make vaccines more important presently to get out of this mess

From: Grey Ghost
16-Apr-21
Orion,

I'm not disputing the economic impact that the shutdowns have had. But I do believe they served to slow down the spread of the virus. Whether the cost was worth the reward is for each to decide. The shutdowns had very little impact on my life. And like your family, we've been lucky to avoid getting infected. But I realize it's a different story for many.

I'm just tired of the hand-wringers whining about "loss of freedoms" and "behavioral control devices", as if those temporary measures were the end of the world. We're a society of laws and regulations, after all.

Matt

From: txhunter58
16-Apr-21
Haha. Interesting chart Jackaroo. Not sure if it’s legit but it sounds right. :-)

But to those that are thinking conservative = not getting Covid vaccine....... not true. As a staunch conservative and a veterinarian, for me it is about the science. And I don’t believe there is a world wide medical community conspiracy . Governmental control about what I do and where I go is a whole other subject.

From: Hackbow
16-Apr-21

Hackbow's Link
I'm just tired of the hand-wringers whining about "others engaging in their freedoms" and "not putting my fears & feelings first", as if a virus with a 98-99% survival rate (only ~10% contract rate) were the end of the world. We're a Constitutional Republic with enumerated God-given rights, freedoms and liberties, after all.

Forcing unconstitutional measures on small businesses and actually knowing their business and financial lives will be destroyed should be unacceptable to anyone who values their freedom. Slowing the curve was supposed to last a couple weeks. Thirteen months in and still using the weight of the government to destroy lives can not be considered, "temporary measures".

And txhunter58 - those stats are the CDC's, not mine. If you look at the indoctrination inoculation percentages, TX is the lowest of the states I posted and well below the worst states in overall death rate. You read anything you want into this scamdemic to justify your cowering in the corner and support of punitive measures on those who want to live free - you have the right to be an idiot.

16-Apr-21
txhunter58-

Yep. I’m just a guy on the internet. But I have the same medical degrees as Bill Gates.

Logic suggests that previous infections, vaccines and prudence should be having impact. I am not advocating for people to avoid the vaccine, disregard prudence and start licking gooey people.

I’m washing hands frequently, actively working to get more sleep, eat nutritious meals, exercise outdoors and because I’m Swedish, thus likely Vitamin D deficient, I’m taking Vitamin D and though I’m not a soda and crap food fan, I’m really avoiding anything with high fructose corn syrup which apparently affects Vitamin D. And I’m taking some other vitamins as well.

I never took vitamins before, but I figure that the $0.29 that I’m spending a day is inconsequential and even if it doesn’t help, it won’t hurt.

I have a buddy who’s a triathlete. He got Covid after Thanksgiving. It was a mild case, but he’s now one of the “Long Haulers”. It’s been about four and a half months and he still can’t run around the block.

I have people busting my balls from both ends of the spectrum every day. That’s OK. I’m going to do what I think is right or prudent with the limited info that I have.

I’m kind of like Goldilocks. I firmly believe that Covid is real and can be very serious. I have friends and family that have been impacted seriously and died. I also believe that the government has out stepped its bounds. Chicago politics originated the idea, “Never let a good crisis go to waste.” I think the government has gotten out of control and is headed further.

But I am aware of my own hypocrisies and work to explore them.

How about smoking in bars, concert arenas and restaurants? The government has the right to ban smoking from public places? If I were to choose to go to a bar with smoking that’d be my choice... and second hand smoke wouldn’t be coming home with me to kill an elderly family member or my kid with asthma.

How about asbestos and lead abatement? If I choose to work with asbestos and lead without proper protocols and protection, that’s my choice, right? And I can choose to bring that exposure home on my clothes to expose my kids when I hug them, right?

So, I guess that I’m just saying that this is more complicated than binary. And that I’m just a contrarian, agreeing and disagreeing with everyone.

It takes quite a few rationalizations for me to get through each day.

16-Apr-21
OB,

Excellent rational approach! And there are differences between the states, weather such as average temperatures, sun exposure etc. might even play a role.

Second shot scheduled for next week, but I do believe the government has gone too far at this point. The costs of closure seem to be much greater than the benefits, and I say this with the utmost respect for human life and not wanting any further deaths or debilitations. OB is taking personal responsibility and watching his own behavior, which we all must do. The government should provide the facts as they discover them to allow us to process the information and make better individual decisions, but we have to take calculated risks and move forward IMHO.

16-Apr-21
^^^^^^ Bingo^^^^^

16-Apr-21

orionsbrother's embedded Photo
orionsbrother's embedded Photo
Grey Ghost-

“ I'm not disputing the economic impact that the shutdowns have had. But I do believe they served to slow down the spread of the virus. Whether the cost was worth the reward is for each to decide. The shutdowns had very little impact on my life. And like your family, we've been lucky to avoid getting infected. But I realize it's a different story for many.”

“The shutdowns had very little impact on my life.”

From: Brotsky
16-Apr-21
I got my second shot today and ?????.

16-Apr-21
Initially I supported the shutdown; however, after awhile the government's worst case scenarios did not materialize and it became difficult to justify their actions. Here are the numbers I still find most puzzling;

1917 Spanish Flu...50 million plus deaths

Chinese Covid....3 million approximate deaths so far

BIG difference even considering counting errors that no doubt occurred.

More people exist today, greater densities, more travel etc. than in 1917. Maybe the shutdowns, improved sanitation, social distancing, better health care made that much of a difference? I find it hard to believe that this virus is as bad as predicted. Don't think it was a conspiracy, just think they got it wrong, but I have no health care training so my thoughts don't matter.

From: Blood
16-Apr-21
Got my second shot. Sucked. Fever - chills. Felt like I got ran over the next day. And I consider myself in very good condition. Let’s get back to normal again!

From: Grey Ghost
16-Apr-21
Orion,

I'm not sure if your meme is intended as an insult, or not, but I'll take it as a compliment. I loved that movie and the character that Clint Eastwood played in it. It also had a good message about the merits of hard work, honesty, and overcoming racial biases.

Hackbow, I hope you find peace and happiness in your life, because it must be miserable living with your doom and gloom attitude.

Matt

From: midwest
16-Apr-21
Just got my second indoctrination inoculation. Weird....I still feel like a conservative/libertarian. Maybe it takes a couple weeks for the full affect to kick in.

From: BowSniper
16-Apr-21
A 'few weeks of lockdown to flatten the curve' now over a year... and the curve not only flat but dropping. And yet those who worry about a loss of freedom are "hand-wringing".

How proud Pavlov would be...

16-Apr-21
Grey Ghost-

Just some humor. No insult intended. I like the movie.

Please always default to assuming that I mean no harm with any of my posts. I’m an ex-rugby player. I’m not passive aggressive. More aggressive aggressive. If my desire is to insult, I will be direct and pointed.

As I alluded to earlier, my views don’t really align with anyone else’s and when they do, I still have contradictions that I have to rationalize.

Life would be very difficult if I needed everyone to agree with me. I’d have to be a hermit.

From: 3rd Degree
16-Apr-21
Am I missing something here? Everyone is acting like the vaccine is a cure. From what I have seen, read about the vaccine, and please correct me if I am wrong....

You can still get covid. Just lessons the effects.

You can still pass covid to others.

You still have to wear a mask.

We still have to lockdown.

So if what the experts are saying is true, you're really not protecting anyone. Accept maybe yourself, by it lessening the effects, if you do happen to contract it.

But get it for the greater good, because we tell you to. And try to shame anyone that doesn't agree with you regardless of what side you are on.

This is/was America! We used to stand for the rights of the individual.

Get it if you want, don't if you don't. But this BS of restricting travel, work, concerts, anything because you don't have a vaccine card, is a bunch of crap. Shaming people cuz they don't get the vaccine, or wear a mask because they are killing people, is another bunch of crap.

It is the dog being wagged by the tail.

From: Treeline
16-Apr-21
By a flea on the tail of the dog.

From: Elkslaya
16-Apr-21
How right you are 3rd Degree. There is so much fear out there and in all my life I have never known Americans to be afraid of anything let alone what some quack like Fauci and the puppet Biden is telling us to do. What people should be fearing is what’s going to happen if they aren’t putting their faith in God and trusting Jesus.

From: RK
16-Apr-21
They just call them a vaccine because the masses would never understand what they really are

Designed to lesson the severity of the virus and keep you out of the hospital and death

From: spike78
16-Apr-21
I’m shocked that you guys don’t think that Bill Gates knows all! About as much as a celebrity knows about politics. Tank I’d rather slam my wiener in a door then take that crap.

From: Treeline
17-Apr-21

Treeline's Link
How many people have actually done any research at all on what is being reported by the MSM?

This is definitely interesting.

17-Apr-21

Habitat for Wildlife's Link
Here’s a little research for you...

From: Treeline
17-Apr-21
You might want to check those “fact checkers”.

Figure out who pays them. Might also be enlightening to see where these “fact checkers” are from...

I did check the CDC web site and found the source material that the article I posted refers to.

17-Apr-21
The OAN is a Christian based organization that has much more credibility then anything of the MSM. But, it seems reality is not important to most.

17-Apr-21
Justin,

Much more credibility than the MSM, that’s not a great standard, LOL.

The internet will provide “facts” supporting any view you already believe.

From: Grey Ghost
17-Apr-21
"Overall, we rate One America News Questionable based on far-right bias, lack of sourcing, promotion of conspiracy theories, and propaganda, as well as numerous failed fact checks. OAN is not a credible news source."

Oops.....

17-Apr-21
"They just call them a vaccine because the masses would never understand what they really are Designed to lesson the severity of the virus and keep you out of the hospital and death"

ummm...thats what a vaccine does.

From: Kevin Dill
17-Apr-21
I believe people should keep in mind: The introduction of any vaccine (actual vaccination) to a person, pet, etc is done to confer immunity. Immunity can be total or partial, with no way to assure any individual’s level of actual immunity. Some vaccines produce essentially complete lifetime protection from a specific disease, while others don’t. Think about diseases like tetanus, rabies, leptospirosis and so on, in which the vaccinations typically produce good antibody response and subsequent immunity. That immunity is not lifetime in scope and not 100% absolute in protection. Periodic subsequent vaccination(s) are needed to confer ongoing immunity....and generally only partial immunity at that.

The Covid-19 vaccine isn’t providing absolute protection....just as the influenza vaccines do not. It’s a matter of degree. It may help you completely avoid covid, or it may lessen your disease severity. If you consider yourself to be at an elevated risk of severe disease (I do, due to age and lack of a spleen) the benefits of vaccination probably outweigh the risk of unknown future effects.

From: woodguy65
17-Apr-21
"Overall, we rate One America News Questionable based on far-right bias, lack of sourcing, promotion of conspiracy theories, and propaganda, as well as numerous failed fact checks. OAN is not a credible news source."

How do they rate CNN? Has anyone seen the latest by project Veritas- James O'Keefe? Hilarious, the Technical Director goes out on 5 "dates", they have him on Audio/Video talking about making stuff up about Trump during the election and during his term (shocker), he literally called it propaganda. He said they made things up, like the time Trumps hand was "shaking" - and they had medical doctor after medical doctor on trying to say he was mentally unstable, because they had nothing else to go with at the time. He goes on to say, they covered for Biden during the election, etc etc everything we already knew. He said they will be pushing climate issue hard during the Biden admin to get the public softened for the new changes coming from them. I realize it wont go anywhere except on Fox - but its still funny (and sad) to watch.

I dont know how to post a link - came on on April 14 - Mediaite Reports CNN Guy Went On 5 Tinder Dates With Veritas Undercover Operative.

17-Apr-21

Habitat for Wildlife's Link
Wood guy,

Here you go, same source. Maybe try researching before opining?

17-Apr-21
I’m just a guy on the internet and I’m just passing on some information from a customer who is a doctor. I have no way to “fact check” or vet him... so take this with whatever grains of salt you wish.

He expressed to me that Covid will likely continue forever. That going forward, the recommendation will end up being to get a flu shot annually in the fall and that Covid shots be done twice a year.

He said that these shots are important to get out as fast as possible to reduce transmission as quickly as possible. That reduced transmission and replication will reduce mutations and variants.

Every transmission ends up with replications that foster mutation as the copies of the copy occur.

Those mutations can render the virus less efficient or more efficient and potentially more deadly. Natural selection. The nastier versions are more successful. Especially with longer infectious incubation periods with asymptomatic transmission possible.

Supposedly, the pharmaceutical companies are already working to address the new variants, pouring piles of money and research into the process. The real concern is that this Corona virus could become more like the Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Variant which is more durable and robust AND be more infectious.

The new discussion about third shots as an additional booster is, according to him, all about reducing replication.

He said that is the reason for the push for large scale vaccinations and continuing with mask and sanitizing protocols afterward. That epidemiologists are not concerned with herd immunity to the current, thankfully less deadly than feared, current variants, but that there is real concern about a mutated variant resulting from the trillions of replications that are occurring daily.

He seemed reasonable and logical and intelligent and matter of fact. What say you guys here who have medical backgrounds?

17-Apr-21
OB,

Basically the information I received from multiple doctors in our circle and why we decided to get vaccinated. I believe it was Pfizer that already announced we will need annual boosters for the variants.

Of course the conspiracy types will conclude Big Pharma is just insuring continued profits and working with government jointly on a plot to control us. Really frustrating to witness the constant criticism of the media being biased and presenting one side while those with a penchant for conspiracies do exactly the same.

From: woodguy65
17-Apr-21
Hey Habitat - That was a rhetorical question.

17-Apr-21
My 10 year booster tetanus shot, Bill Gates in on that too?

17-Apr-21
woodguy65 -

Actually it wasn’t rhetorical. It was a sincere question for anyone in the medical profession. I know that there are physicians and biochemists on this site.

I get it that there’s no way to vet them either, but there are some that I know of and respect.

Just trying to gain additional information and trying to better my understanding.

As I said in an earlier post. I’m choosing to be very prudent because my oldest has asthma. I get the math. I understand the statistics with kids, but the asthma is a risk multiplier and wild card and I’m an “essential” worker who’s been out and about in high a density population area the entire time. Any concern for myself is minimal. My concern regarding my child is much greater. If my stupid human tricks are the price to minimize risk to my kid, I’ll continue to pay that price.

Feel free to make fun of me if you wish. I’m married. I can take it.

17-Apr-21
“They surely do not want a One and Done vaccine like polio.”

Tank, apparently you aren’t as old as some of us. As a kid, I received a polio booster once a year. I didn’t mind, in fact I looked forward to that sugar cube.

Point is, medical science isn’t static, it’s constantly changing as more and more is l learned every day. Who knows if yearly boosters will be the norm. Like others, for me the short-term benefits of the COVID vaccination far outweigh any potential long-term effects.

17-Apr-21
In a never unfamiliar tone, Grey Ghost ridicules others for their sources they find on the internet. Then uses his internet sources as proof. That is really original.

I understand the other side of the coin mentality. I also understand that state health departments have made the same claims as the linked article has. You’d have to be living under a rock, extremely biased, or simply plain ignorant not to at least acknowledge that reality. But, I’m not as intent to make this a discussion as some. Nor, do I get my kicks on hackling people from a seat of condensation.

Frank, I’m glad to hear you say that. I was worried the unbiased, correct, and always truthful Wall Street journal had you dubbed.

I’ve yet to see where the OAN has ever blatantly lied or even been wrong for that matter. And, I’ve followed them for several years. I guess some will call it a conspiracy to choose a biblical source for unbiased news. In comparison to the MSM, I can’t see how any responsible adult could rationalize that though. But, it’s what’s kept this thread pumping.

Good day gentlemen.

From: BOWNBIRDHNTR
17-Apr-21
I'm with 3rd Degree. You do you but let me be me. Bash away.

From: midwest
17-Apr-21
I know a few people who have refused the vaccine because they fear the risk and I'm okay with that. But they continue guzzling energy drinks, soda, McDonald's, sugary foods, and tons of other simple carbohydrates. Makes me chuckle.

'merica

From: woodguy65
17-Apr-21
Orion - I wasn’t referring to you or your question.

I was responding to Habitat - see my post above. I asked how they rate CNN? Then posted the Project Veritos info.

But Habitat in his typical smug ass way - told me to research it. Like I need to research if CNN is biased.... that was the rhetorical question.

Jeepers I’m going fishing’!

17-Apr-21
No sweat woodguy. My mistake. Multitasking at work. Not trying to be a d-bag or call anyone out. Just explaining my post... unnecessarily it seems.

PM sent as well.

17-Apr-21
Wood guy,

Wasn’t trying to be smug, thought you were questioning if Media Bias would rate CNN as liberal.

From: Rupe
17-Apr-21
No shot for me!

17-Apr-21
Good post Midwest ^^^ ain’t that the truth.

From: Jackaroo
17-Apr-21
How many people got the shot and their gut hangs out of the bottom of a tee shirt? How many got the shot and their spandex pants look like they are stuffed beyond capacity with cottage cheese and they have bingo wings for arms? 80% of people hospitalized or dead were over weight or obese. How come we never heard the government say lose weight as the avg. American packed on 15 additional lbs during Covid? Why should anyone care more about your health than you do? Yell at me to get a vaccine when you are obese , with diabetes, high blood pressure and heart disease sucking down carcinogens with every big gulp, F off. Spare me the genetics defense because it’s a lie 99% of the time.

From: Jackaroo
17-Apr-21

Jackaroo's Link
This is the correct link

https://mobile.twitter.com/Outkick/status/1383423557766553608

From: 70lbdraw
18-Apr-21
By now you would think that common sense would have kicked in. Seems the lefties have canceled that as well!

From: Jackaroo
18-Apr-21

Jackaroo's embedded Photo
Jackaroo's embedded Photo

From: gobbler
18-Apr-21
I took Moderna first chance I got. I’m 7 weeks past my 2nd dose of Moderna

From: bigswivle
18-Apr-21
“ know a few people who have refused the vaccine because they fear the risk and I'm okay with that. But they continue guzzling energy drinks, soda, McDonald's, sugary foods, and tons of other simple carbohydrates. Makes me chuckle.”

know a few people who have gotten the vaccine because they fear the COVID and I'm okay with that. But they continue guzzling energy drinks, soda, McDonald's, sugary foods, and tons of other simple carbohydrates. Makes me chuckle.

18-Apr-21
Freedom includes eating what you want;-)

From: Lawdy
18-Apr-21
We on fire/rescue got both in January. Just got notified that our booster shot will be early June.

From: midwest
18-Apr-21
My point being they fear the risk of the covid vaccine yet continue to put known poison in their bodies every day. Those that continue to take those kind of known health risks are those that are most likely at risk of serious complications from covid. I find it ironic.

...and, yes, HfW, freedom includes eating what you want right up until we get universal healthcare due to the result of our gluttonous American eating habits and lack of exercise that continues to drive up healthcare costs. Score one more for the dems.

From: RK
18-Apr-21
Lawdy

Never heard of any of this going as fast as you are saying. Which vaccine did you get

18-Apr-21
RK - The doctor that I’d talked to was saying that he thinks Covid shots will be every six months. What Lawdy is saying seems to give credence to that.

From: JohnMC
18-Apr-21
Freedom includes Double stuff Oreo’s!

From: RK
18-Apr-21
OB. I am not doubting him but rather I just have not heard that

I heard Pfizer may need a booster at some time but they were not sure at what point.

Just trying to gather info

From: adobe
18-Apr-21
So people eating want they want leads to universal health care..?

From: Bowbender
19-Apr-21
Who was it that called me a liar for stating the effectiveness of the COVID wanes after 6 months?

Study after study is coming out indicating boosters will most likely be needed. In 6 months or so. So, we have a vaccine, where the general population is the clinical/trial study, pharma’s have indemnity, and all is paid for by the feds. Phuc dat. Whose the real winner?

From: Grey Ghost
19-Apr-21
What I continue to read is the vaccines are known to last AT LEAST 6 months, based on current trial studies, and will probably last longer as more data is collected.

That said, the wife and I are in no hurry to get jabbed. Mostly because we weren't eligible until recently, and the timing for the second jab would have been too close to our scheduled trip this week. So, we're going to continue to use the same precautions that have kept us COVID-free for the last year, and may consider getting a vaccine in June.

Matt

21-Apr-21
Moderna number 2 done!

From: Will
22-Apr-21
Good for you H4W!

22-Apr-21
Thanks Will.

Doing better than I thought. Slight headache, some joint pain and fatigue but able to work.

From: 3rd Degree
22-Apr-21
https://youtu.be/vdrRGmoTYv4

https://rumble.com/vfv1a5-dear-god-do-not-get-the-vaccines-covid-shots-will-decimate-world-population.html

Not sure if I linked these correctly. Not news. Just a couple doctors discussing the "vaccine". Definately worth watching. The second one is a little more technical, but in layman's terms, about how the shot works.

From: KSflatlander
22-Apr-21
2nd Moderna (mRNA) shot in a week.

My father gave me some good advice growing up. 1. always order the mushroom swiss burger. 2. never take health advice from a semi-anonymous looney tune (Shawn Maygar/tank/hedgehunter) on an internet forum.

22-Apr-21
"you die, your family is screwed, you have no option. Your life policies will not pay out."

100% total crap.

From: drycreek
22-Apr-21
Twelve days after my second Moderna shot I can tell you this. Ever since I had Covid around Christmas it has hung on and visited me each and every day. Some days not too bad, most days bad, some days awful. It has affected my life like nothing else ever has. I didn’t feel like doing anything much, spent most days indoors, couldn’t sleep well at night and made up for it in my recliner during the day. I very seldom wanted to fish and when I did, by lunch I was ready to quit.

Enter the second Moderna shot on April 10. The first night was rough as I’ve already said, then things began to ease up. After about three days I began to feel better. The symptoms still come to visit, sometimes twice a day, but they don’t last but a couple minutes and they aren’t anywhere near as severe as they were before. Tuesday I split wood from 7:30 until 4:00 and I’m headed to turkey hunt next Tuesday. The only reason I got the “vaccine” was to see if I could get rid of this crap once and for all. I hope I have.

From: midwest
22-Apr-21
That's crazy drycreek. Hope you are on the mend!

From: bowhunt
22-Apr-21
That’s good news Drycreek

Hopefully you symptoms continue to disappear.

22-Apr-21
Best wishes on your continued improvement drycreek.

From: Matt
22-Apr-21

Matt's Link
"Who was it that called me a liar for stating the effectiveness of the COVID wanes after 6 months?"

Probably me. Which studies are those since you didn't link anything? I haven't found any studies that suggest that (and what I have read contradicts that), so I believe you are still wrong.

The studies I've looked at indicate the vaccine protection remains robust at 6 months. I linked the only article I could find that references a reduction in protection from the vaccine and it is only "expected" at this point based on what has been observed with those who have had the disease (natural immunity).

One has to remember that there are not a lot of people who have been vaccinated for more than 6 months + whatever time is needed to conduct/publish a study, so that is in essence as long a time horizon as the medical community can speak to.

From another recent article: "Analysis of 927 confirmed symptomatic cases of COVID-19 demonstrates BNT162b2 is highly effective with 91.3% vaccine efficacy observed against COVID-19, measured seven days through up to six months after the second dose."

That should not be misconstrued to imply it is less effective after 6 months, just that it hasn't been studied.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-confirm-high-efficacy-and-no-serious

22-Apr-21
What do Covid, masks and vaccines all have in common? Easy answer for those paying attention. 2 words. Government Control.

From: KSflatlander
22-Apr-21
What do stop signs and seat belts have in common? Government control.

Good grief...

From: Elkslaya
22-Apr-21
Horrible comparison. Seatbelts and stop signs don’t shut economies down and change election laws. Or keep you from going to weddings, funerals, birthday parties and celebrating Christmas, New Years and the 4th of July. Next?

From: spike78
22-Apr-21
OMG Matt are you a salesman for the vaccine geez. My coworker got his first vaccine yesterday and he said his eyes are burning. We will see what tomorrow brings. The rest of you suck at the the Harris Biden Teet.

From: Chief 419
22-Apr-21
I've been vaccinated. Catching Covid is the least of my concerns. The only reason I got the vaccine was that I have a hunt in Greenland this year which has already been postponed since last year.

It seems that a vaccination record and negative Covid test within a day or two of travel should be enough to let people start traveling again. I suppose that makes too much sense though. Fingers crossed.

From: Rgiesey
22-Apr-21
It’s none of anyone’s business whether I do or do not wear my seatbelt. Or smoke or drink or bow hunt in grizzly infested mountains. My choice of risk. Traffic rules are required for any function of roadways.

From: JohnMC
22-Apr-21
At least stop signs and seat belts were past my legislation and not by some 12 plus month emergency declaration by some power hungry light in his loafers governor like here in CO and most other states.

From: KSflatlander
22-Apr-21
True but stop signs and seat belts also don’t cause the spread of a virus that kills 500,000 people in a year and cause a collapse of our hospitals.

There is a balance to life and Liberty and the pursuit of happiness in all of our choices and sacrifices for the collective good.

From: Jackaroo
22-Apr-21
Receiving The vaccine is like a baptism for the church of branch covidian.

From: KSflatlander
22-Apr-21
Almost like being a maskhole or covidiot but opposite.

From: Elkslaya
22-Apr-21
First you have to believe the pandemic is as bad as some say it is. There’s been a whole lot of political shenanigans going on and socialist progressive Democrats are seeing to it that it continues so they can strengthen their agenda which is anti-constitution, anti-law, anti-capitalism, anti-hunting and in general anti-American. These thugs and bullies pushing this anti-American agenda, and their mouth pieces, and those who buy into this crap, and defending it, are morally, mentally and spiritually challenged thinking if they tell the lie enough, it becomes true. That’s who these people are. These are who you are dealing with. And these people know who they are. Each and every one of them. They are very easy to spot too.

From: RK
22-Apr-21
KS. the hospitals never collapsed

Actually not even close

New York was the worst and the Javitts Center (sp) and the hospital ship were never used at all except for show

Damn peoples want to memories are so different than real memories are

Does not really matter I guess.

From: KSflatlander
22-Apr-21
So true. All of those anti-American’s on January 6th were easy to spot. Just as easy to spot as those anti-Americans rioting and looting this summer. They know who they are. Pretty easy to spot when they are beating a cop with a “blue lives matter” flag or carrying a stolen TV out of a store all in the name of freedom and rights.

In the words of Ole Merle, ”if you don’t love it, leave it...”

From: Matt
22-Apr-21
"OMG Matt are you a salesman for the vaccine geez."

Or for the truth. But why would that matter? Should we just let lies stand if the support your personal ideology?

To think we have people on this site who think it is only those on the other side who are sheep.

From: Jackaroo
22-Apr-21

Jackaroo's Link
Speaking of liars

https://youtu.be/dPQY57pDQsk

From: Elkslaya
22-Apr-21
As I said FL’r, keep telling yourself that and it will become true. you guys are too easy to spot......

From: KSflatlander
22-Apr-21
Elkslaya- you have been gas-lighted for 4 years and you have lost touch with reality. I don’t have to spot guys like you with my eyes but with my ears as it spills out of your mouth (typing fingers) with every word like it’s something to be proud of. It’s a perversion of reality. It’s the opposite of patriotic really.

From: spike78
23-Apr-21
OMG Matt are you a salesman for the vaccine geez. My coworker got his first vaccine yesterday and he said his eyes are burning. We will see what tomorrow brings. The rest of you suck at the the Harris Biden Teet.

23-Apr-21
Up at 5AM to go turkey hunting. Feel totally back to normal and slept solid last night. Hope that’s it.

From: Will
23-Apr-21
I was hit, as I read this, that a lot of folks should be totally stoked about this vaccine stuff. Since it's (according to a really informational, accurate and good (levels of sarcasm in that statement are the largest ever typed into Bowsite) video above) going to kill off most of those getting it, in like 5 years there wont be any Rhino or liberal leaning folks left on earth - given those groups appear to get the vax's readily while the more conservative leaning, particularly conservative males seem very hesitant (stat's on this all over the place)...

So, no worries. In like 8 years folks should be able to elect Marjorie Taylor Greene as president with Matt Gaetz as VP by, like, 10:1, and all will be good. Just a couple years. Patience. We will all be gone soon.

He he he :)

Hopefully my feeble attempt at humor came through there.

From: MarkU
23-Apr-21
I'm starting to think that some of you anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theory muffins need to go back to hanging around your qanon rabbit hole and stick to finding out whose babies are being eaten and maybe find out where the local Druid clan is having their next goat sacrifice/barbeque and you could infiltrate it and get some free vittles and do some chanting around the bonfire.

Be sure to where your mask.

From: Jackaroo
23-Apr-21
Gina Carano ?? @ginacarano You want to start improving your health? Stop being so full of shit.

From: Jackaroo
23-Apr-21

Jackaroo's embedded Photo
Jackaroo's embedded Photo
Blueanon lol

From: KSflatlander
23-Apr-21
Jack- Please provide a link to the source of chart. Otherwise it’s just a colorful picture.

Let me guess...oan, newsmax, gateway pundit maybe?

From: bigswivle
23-Apr-21
“Be sure to where your mask“

Why? If you’re getting the vaccine, what do u care about the people that aren’t wearing masks?

From: bigswivle
23-Apr-21
“Let me guess...oan, newsmax, gateway pundit maybe?“

Really? That’s your rebuttal, cracking on news sources. Lmao!!!!

From: RK
23-Apr-21
Bigswivle. All that some people have. Sad

From: Jackaroo
23-Apr-21

Jackaroo's embedded Photo
Jackaroo's embedded Photo

Here’s more blue anon

From: Jackaroo
23-Apr-21

Jackaroo's embedded Photo
Jackaroo's embedded Photo
Blueanons fearless leader lol

From: Will
23-Apr-21
The chart may actually make sense (I've seen it floating around somewhere else too). More D's live in population centers. Population centers get hit by infectious diseases more aggressively than rural. It's like that map people like to use to attempt to show how there are 3 blue voters in the US and how most of the country is red... but which when corrected to show those red v blue by population vs land mass, the reality that there are more blue voters than red is clear. Context and information presentation matter.

This chart is the same thing. If you take a sample of population centers, it's likely more people in those areas have COVID... Simultaneously, a higher % of those folks are D.

So you have more people who are D's in general, and certainly in population centers more D's... And more people in those areas have frequent contact with others thus those folks have higher rates of COVID...

It's like showing a chart of where people ice skate on ponds. Clearly the south has low levels of pond skating, the south is generally considered Red... So clearly republicans dont like pond hockey. That's the style of conclusion one can draw from the orange and blue chart above. It states an obvious, and people attempt to conflate that all sorts of stuff to go with it... Context matters with statistics (or anything - but we dont like that anymore and just live by meme and soundbite)...

From: KSflatlander
23-Apr-21
Very true will but it don’t mean squat without a source.

Yes, cracking on those “news sources”...all day long. Gas lighting is their business model. You know you are in trouble when you adopt the “news” narrative (right or left) and ignore your own eyes, ears, and logic. Prime symptom of gas lighting. Just because it’s repeated over and over and over doesn’t make it true.

From: Jackaroo
23-Apr-21

Jackaroo's Link
It’s from a Gallup survey on the effects of media on public perception. Bill Maher did a good review of it a few weeks ago.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/1383415572864458753

From: KSflatlander
23-Apr-21
Agreed Bill Maher did a good review. Seen it last week. I agree not because he is left (as am I) but because what he says is consistent with my own eyes, ears, and logic. I don’t always agree with him but agree with the Covid monologue.

Jack- Cool that you watch Bill Maher.

From: Hackbow
23-Apr-21
"It’s a perversion of reality." - Speaking of perversion...

"Just because it’s repeated over and over and over doesn’t make it true." - Similar to accepting sexual deviants as "normal", and boys can be girls, and girls can be boys, and so on...

Don't you love being preached to by a guy who defends and promotes sexual deviancy against the laws of God and nature, but wants to shame a person for making an individual choice regarding their own health?

I don't see anyone trying to FORCE others into NOT getting the indoctrination inoculation, but the list keeps growing for those who advocate for the government and businesses taking action against those who do not wish to. That fact alone tells me everything important about the issue. If one needs to force others into an action against their will, that person is living in abject fear and/or has no desire to allow anyone else to live a free life. If you're that person, you can f-off, or in KSFer's case, go bite a pillow.

From: KSflatlander
23-Apr-21
It's called "live and let live." Read your post again. Who exactly is preaching?

It is not exactly your own health. If you decide to not get the vaccine and forever isolate yourself then that is your own health. If you don't vaccinate but want still mingle among the heard then it is not your own health that is at stake. It is called a communicable disease you idiot. You don't get the vaccine...great, it is your right. But don't complain about lockdowns, masks, or social distancing, or if private business don't allow you to participate. It's capitalism and it's legal. At least for now.

Ever see me post that you or anyone should be forced to get a vaccine? Nope.

"Normal" is a societal construct.

Matthew 7:1-5 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?"

From: 70lbdraw
23-Apr-21
Ryan, lets say you were in grave danger of dying from covid if you were to contract it. Would you still go on about your life as normal, because you trust that EVERYONE around you is concerned about your well being? I sure as he'll wouldn't. I like the idea of letting the weak immune folks do their thing while healthy folks stay home tho...it fits right in with the rest of the discombobulated liberal logic you so embrace.

From: KSflatlander
23-Apr-21
Bryan- I would take necessary precautions like you. However, there is no way one can completely isolate themselves and get the resources necessary to live. Even if non-vac healthy people go about their lives they still transmit. More transmission means more mutations and continued persistence of the virus in the population.

I’m not saying we should do this at all. If every person in the world was vaccinated we could all but wipe out the existence of this virus. Just like we have done in the past with other viruses. Just like polio, tetanus, rubella, measles, whooping cough, mumps, chicken pox, etc. you can thank those before you for vaccinating.

We can return the favor for future generations. Your choice.

From: Hackbow
23-Apr-21
KSFer - you may want to read your own words. If YOU are promoting govt and big biz action then YOU are preaching to those who may disagree with YOU.

Also, you are trying to preach the Bible and Christianity while denying the Bible and many tenets of Christianity. Your sexually-deviant beliefs disqualify you as one I would listen to as an authority, or even reasonable voice, regarding anything.

"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?"

You are not my "brother" in any way, shape, matter or form. You promote sexual deviance as a norm. You openly mock scripture and stand firmly against biological fact. You openly mock those who would put Constitutional freedom above personal safety. You preach that I should get the indoctrination inoculation to protect everyone else, but if everyone else gets it, there should be no concern.

And speaking of communicable diseases, you may want to look at the statistics for sexual deviants that play in each other's backsides vs monogamous, heterosexual (normal folk).

I don't care if you get the indoctrination inoculation. You shouldn't care that I do. The fact that you do is telling.

23-Apr-21
Great monologue by Mahar in Jackaroo's link - I don't care if you like Mahar or not.

From: KSflatlander
23-Apr-21
Hackbow- those were Jesus' words (via Matthew's testimony) not mine. Take it up with Jesus/God and Matthew.

I do not promote any lifestyle. I do promote letting others love who they want to love. I promote acceptance of people and against discrimination based on sexual orientation.

You really want to go there on gays vs strait with communicable diseases. Really, when only about 10% (give or take 5%) of the world are gay? Without looking at any sources I can tell you that is a losing argument just on shear numbers and statistics. Is your logic really that grade school? Seems like your backside is talented as it can type.

By the way, been in a happy monogamous relationship with my wife for 18 years. I am blessed to be in a happy marriage with an amazing women. Raised 5 kids to productive and good adults.

It seems those of fire and brimstone always seem to have the most skeletons in their closest. I wonder...

Beat it you hateful and hypocritical little man.

From: Hackbow
23-Apr-21
Dude, you quoting Jesus's words is meaningless when you applaud and advocate for those who give Him the finger.

And I will never go away as long as the likes of you work to destroy this country with your socialist/communist policies; accuse Christians of being racist or xxx-phobic for stand on Biblical principles; or simply mock God.

I will stand for Jesus, our Constitutional Republic and biological fact. You stand opposed to all three, you and those like-minded are the hateful ones who must redefine words and obfuscate meanings to accomplish your godless, deviant and evil goals.

From: KSflatlander
23-Apr-21
Every individual’s relationship with God is between them and God. Not me or you.

I’ll answer for all my actions someday and I’m comfortable with that because I know he knows me.

By the way, doesn’t the constitution protect “freedom of religion?” So how do you rectify that? Do you condemn the founding fathers for that? What about non-Christian Americans? Are they also deviants because they don’t believe in your God? You ever been divorced or have divorced friends? Are they deviants? I could go on and on. You got a stone to cast?

From: 70lbdraw
23-Apr-21
"If every person in the world was vaccinated we could all but wipe out the existence of this virus."

Did I miss the article that backs that statement? I'm no expert, but only time will tell if that's true. It has been only a few months since it's inception.

From: KSflatlander
23-Apr-21

KSflatlander's Link
I can't argue with that 70lbsdraw. My statement was too definitive. I stand corrected. But there is preliminary data that suggests that mRNA may be able to do just that. Also, there is preliminary data that shows that vaccinated people may not transmit the virus but the data set is too small to draw definitive conclusions. We can only hope.

Regardless, you got me...touché

From: txhunter58
23-Apr-21
Sorry guys but I bow out of any more arguing on this issue. After more than TWO MONTHS, we had almost 30 more entries just today! I think just about everything that could be said has been said. You guys are really talking in circles and two sides will never meet! But if it floats your boat, keep beating that dead elk instead of talking about elk hunting. I am moving on....

From: Matt
23-Apr-21

Matt's Link
"Did I miss the article that backs that statement? I'm no expert, but only time will tell if that's true. It has been only a few months since it's inception."

There is a strong indication that widespread vaccination could do just that against the current variants, but as you stated it is not conclusive at this point.

The rationale is that the viral load of those who get COVID and are 12+ days post-2nd jab is significantly lower than the unvaccinated and the theory is that should.make them less prone to infect others.

"“The results show that infections occurring 12 [days] or longer after vaccination have significantly reduced viral loads at the time of testing, potentially affecting viral shedding and contagiousness as well as the severity of the disease,” the authors wrote."

At the end of the day, the goal isn't so much to stop people from getting COVID but to keep them from getting sick enough to he hospitalized or killed by it. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are very close to 100% effective at that.

From: Rickm
23-Apr-21
Time will tell. This is not going away. My wife and I are vaccinated. She is done, I have my second in May. I am on the fence for my kids.

It is a big experiment as far as I am concerned. Make your own choices.

From: Dino
24-Apr-21
Got injected with the Astra Zeneca vaccine up here in Canada...booster is 4 months away. 2 days after the poke I am feeling just fine. Glad to have it! I’ll be glad when we get through this stuff!

24-Apr-21
There’s also data that suggests states that are open vs states that are masked up contract at the same rate. Our politicians have shut the country down for nothing. It’s all about control in the libtard ran and governed states

From: Matt
24-Apr-21

Matt's Link
"There’s also data that suggests states that are open vs states that are masked up contract at the same rate."

And lots of data that suggests otherwise.

From: spike78
24-Apr-21
Matt you would make one hell of a crack dealer at a high school.

From: RK
24-Apr-21
Dino glad Canada is turning loose some vaccines. Glad you got the shot. Hope the wife got one also

If they ever open the border you will be good to go !!!

From: Kevin Dill
24-Apr-21
My wife was one of the first few thousand in Ohio to be vaccinated. No lingering side effects, other than a noticeable increase in her appreciation for well-aged cabernets. There’s also her tendency to randomly talk about vacations, motor homes, and beaches which I’m certain are vaccine related. That’s alright because I’ve got my own set of after effects to enjoy.

From: Matt
24-Apr-21
"Matt you would make one hell of a crack dealer at a high school."

By calling out people making unsupported claims and providing actual studies that counter those claims? The only reason I can imagine you would find the truth so unpalatable is a fragile worldview.

24-Apr-21
I’d say the numbers being called out by the puppet Biden admin along with Fauci and his army of beaurocrats are the ones putting out unsupported information. In fact I’ll just go ahead and say what most already know. And that is the covid numbers have been doctored, fabricated, and are outright lies. Anyone who wants to argue that are mouthpieces for the left. Unsupported huh? What’s it take to be supported? An article in The NY Times? How bout a CNN report? How bout the AMA or whatever they call themselves? How bout heads of hospitals that would be broke if they weren’t calling everything under the sun covid? I’ve seen the firsthand lies so I don’t need to rely on the so-called supported documents. I don’t have to see a report to know what a lie is. And the left is full of them. And those of you defending it are liars and deceivers too!

From: RK
24-Apr-21
Matt

Partially true but those supported and unsupported claims cut both ways

I feel perfectly secure in saying in the next five-eight years the data will support the truth. Not now

From: Dino
24-Apr-21
Always a pleasure to hear from you Mr Kiebler. Yes, it’s taken forever to get the vaccines up here man...Paula is scheduled for Tuesday!

From: RK
24-Apr-21
Awesome. Take care !! Be safe

From: midwest
26-Apr-21

midwest's embedded Photo
midwest's embedded Photo
Ridiculous.

27-Apr-21
Can you imagine the hundreds of billions being/going to be made off the fear of this virus?

From: DanaC
27-Apr-21
I hope you anti-vaxxers are paying attention to what's happening in India right now. (Or South America.) People there would *kill* for what you can get at no out-of-pocket cost.

The world death toll is at 3 million. I'm betting it hits ten.

From: RMhunter
27-Apr-21
I had covid back in February and it wasn't fun to say the least. I've lost two people that were close to our family, one had the first shot and was days from his second when he became sick and died a week later. Now one of good friends wife who I graduated high school with is in ICU and it's not looking good at all. She's 38 yr old and a school teacher, she has Lupus so she decided to take the vaccinations. She had taken both and a few weeks ago her husband came down with covid, and then her middle daughter got it. She started feeling bad and got tested twice in a 3 day period and both were negative. After steady decline she ended up in the hospital over the weekend and they did a different test there and showed she was positive for covid and had double pneumonia. She's been on the vent since Sunday night and It's not looking good. My wife is a nurse and has seen the effects of covid-19 as well but for now we've decided not to take the vaccine. I understand that nothing is 100% but it's sad to see a 38yr old mother of 3 that did what everyone is telling us to do, laying in the ICU fighting for her life. Everyone has to decide for themselves and I won't belittle them either way

From: Kingntuff
27-Apr-21
How can one have so much to say about covid 19.? One must get paid or is very under laid. Its a option to get the vaccination. Agreed no belittleing here. This is bowsite not a broadcast news about covid site. Lets get back to being simple informed humans. Not the driffel of mis informed idiots that want poke at fellow sportsman for doing what they see fair to them and their lifestyle. Night.

From: Hackbow
28-Apr-21

Hackbow's Link
"I hope you anti-vaxxers are paying attention to what's happening in India right now. (Or South America.) People there would *kill* for what you can get at no out-of-pocket cost. The world death toll is at 3 million. I'm betting it hits ten."

Dana - I'm betting we could save many more lives than you are whining about without forcing people to take the indoctrination inoculation. Hmmmm......I wonder what we could do?

From: 70lbdraw
28-Apr-21
Dana, if China Joe said that jumping off of a cliff is the only way to stop covid; I can easily see you standing on the edge of the Grand Canyon, waving for everyone to join in.

From: DanaC
28-Apr-21
Bryan, do you actually think attacking me is the same as making a *valid* argument?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

From: Brotsky
28-Apr-21
The only way you will get the vaccine in more arms is to give people the carrot of restored freedom. Those of us that live in America (I.E. South Dakota) have never lost that freedom so I can only assume that these lockdown states have been miserable to live in over the last year. Start putting hard numbers out there 70% vaccination and we fully re-open or whatever the number is. There is absolutely nothing in this world that will convince people otherwise that hasn't already been tried and propagandized. Why would someone at zero perceived risk from COVID get a vaccine when it gets them nothing other than feeling like crap for a day or two. I'm in the 50% that is vaccinated because its the right thing to do in my mind, but I also understand why people wouldn't risk it. Give people back their freedoms when they get vaccinated. You can't lockdown forever. Eventually people will stop listening, and then they will vote Republican for a cycle and the pendulum will go the other way.

From: 70lbdraw
28-Apr-21
Dana, I'm not attacking you; just your train of thought. I'm fully aware of what a *valid* argument is. I'm just debating in the same style as most left leaning thinkers do.

So are you saying you think we will suffer the same demise as India?

28-Apr-21
good post Brotsky.

From: DanaC
28-Apr-21
" So are you saying you think we will suffer the same demise as India? "

Bryan, *in spite of* the anti-vaxxers we will not. On the whole we're way ahead of them in getting vaccinated. Too many of them will be dead before they have the chance we've been given.

The rest of the world is still in deep manure, and people here are more worried about whether they'll be able to go fishing in Canada.

From: Potro
28-Apr-21
I got both shots of the Pfizer vaccine. Now feel a little more relief

From: 12yards
28-Apr-21
Getting my first Pfizer today. Didn't want to get it at first, but thinking I better after my best friend got Covid and got pretty sick and still doesn't feel 100% a month later. Also a workmate got it and is on a ventilator now. I'm a healthy dude I think, but I don't want to get Covid and have long lasting issues. Hopefully the vaccine doesn't give me same. I ain't gonna lie, I've never been so hesitant to get a vaccine.

From: JohnMC
28-Apr-21
I am not anti vaccine as long as it is a choice. I am getting shot #2 next week. I am anti forced mask, anti lockdown, anti loss of freedom we have seen in the last year. It has become clear that half of Americans and a surprising number of bowsiters would walk around with a tampon in each ear if a government official told them too.

From: DanaC
28-Apr-21
It has become equally clear that "half of Americans and a surprising number of bowsiters" would throw a hissy fit if the government told them to eat a healthy breakfast ;-)

From: 12yards
28-Apr-21
Hey man, I'm all about a good bowl of Cap'n Crunch in the morning!

From: JohnMC
28-Apr-21
Hopefully more than that would throw a hissy fit if the government starts telling them what they can and can't eat. But it scary how many brainwashed people there are.

From: 70lbdraw
28-Apr-21
"Hopefully the vaccine doesn't give me same. I ain't gonna lie, I've never been so hesitant to get a vaccine."

Damned if you do...damned if you don't. But If you don't, you're a racist, and you don't care about the lives of millions of illegals coming over that might contract it from an American citizen. C'mon man!!!!

From: Matt
28-Apr-21
How ironic it is that early on at least one Bowsite anti-vaxxer adopted the rally cry of "my body, my choice" in defending their stance around COVID vaccination.

From: JohnMC
28-Apr-21
So Matt your argument it is only the mothers body to consider in hackbows "rally cry". You are worse than ksflatbrimmer.

From: lamb
28-Apr-21
dana what the hell did they do to you back there in the peoples republic of ass-achusetss? i see the l.a. times wants congress to mandate everyone get a covid shot.

From: Hackbow
28-Apr-21
"How ironic it is that early on at least one Bowsite anti-vaxxer adopted the rally cry of "my body, my choice" in defending their stance around COVID vaccination."

Lol...too f'n funny. Millions upon millions of lives destroyed for convenience sake, and this idiot wants to call out those who are skeptical of jumping when the fed government orders it.

Lolololololololololololol.......!!!!

From: Matt
28-Apr-21
"So Matt your argument it is only the mothers body to consider in hackbows "rally cry". You are worse than ksflatbrimmer."

Just as sensical as arguing only the would-be vaccine recipient has any interst in whether they are vaccinated.

And thinking all the idiots are on the other side.

28-Apr-21
Wow! Great response Senator Tim Scott! That’s what we need, positive words delivered from a credible individual with sincerity.

Hope springs eternal!

From: Rut Nut
29-Apr-21
From: JohnMC 28-Apr-21

I am not anti vaccine as long as it is a choice. I am getting shot #2 next week. I am anti forced mask, anti lockdown, anti loss of freedom we have seen in the last year. It has become clear that half of Americans and a surprising number of bowsiters would walk around with a tampon in each ear if a government official told them too.

AMEN! and LMBO! : )

From: 4nolz@work
29-Apr-21
DrMike and DrSG-thanks for posting I apologize if my question has been asked and answered I did not read the entire thread.

Q:I've had corona and have tested positive for antibodies I've heard the vaccine can really make you feel bad if you have Atbs is that true? I'm reluctant for that reason.TIA

From: Rob in VT
29-Apr-21
I got my second Pfizer shot yesterday. I feel fine, arms a little sore today. I have had several friends that had Covid, a few hospitalized. Also lost my 90 year old mother to Covid a few days before Christmas. I don’t think it’s a big deal to get vaccinated. I get the flu shot every year so what’s the difference.

From: 12yards
29-Apr-21
I got Pfizer #1 yesterday at 3:00. Felt fine so I took a 14 mile bike ride. This morning felt fine. This afternoon, maybe a touch achy, and flush. Or maybe I'm imagining. Arm is definitely sore today.

From: Kevin Dill
29-Apr-21
My wife spent part of the morning working with a 6 month old who tested positive for Covid upon admission. Sick for 2 weeks but tested negative until today. Lungs extremely bad on x-rays...enough that heart silhouette couldn't be seen. Child was transferred to a tertiary hospital in very critical condition.

29-Apr-21
Just got my second one. We’ll see if I react. No reaction to the first one, but I think the first was delivered by a trainee or dart player or someone who wants to play Cpt. Ahab in community theater. .

Second shot had smooth delivery.

I understand that statistics are with my kids. I worry about my oldest who has asthma. I’m the family medical Guinea Pig.

From: 'Ike'
29-Apr-21
I got nothing, just wanted to be 875....Carry on!

From: Matt
29-Apr-21
Had my 2nd Pfizer jab yesterday AM, had a little brain fog in the afternoon/evening but still got in a workout.

From: bb
29-Apr-21
"DrMike and DrSG-thanks for posting I apologize if my question has been asked and answered I did not read the entire thread." "Q:I've had corona and have tested positive for antibodies I've heard the vaccine can really make you feel bad if you have Atbs is that true? I'm reluctant for that reason.TIA"

I can give you a little bit of info. My daughter and most all of her dorm had the virus Last September. she had the moderna shot 1 a couple of weeks ago and felt crappy , fever aches pains, for a day then then she was fine. She said at the time, that was pretty consistent with the rest of her friends that had the virus then got the vaccine.

From: 4nolz@work
29-Apr-21
What worries me is a coworker who had a TIA the neurologist blamed on the booster shot

From: D-Wad
30-Apr-21
Love this thread. Got experts everywhere. In end of Jan 2020 not a soul here thought America would even be impacted by the Wuhan Bug release. By mid Feb on here most were all skeptics still. When it was said here this bug would kill millions in early March that was scoffed as poppycock. Got mad virologists now.

From: Rut Nut
30-Apr-21
Same here Mike. I have heard of 2 friends (totally unrelated) who have gotten really sick from the vaccine in the last week. One died aNd the other is still recovering.

From: Drnaln
30-Apr-21
Got my 2nd Pfizer shot yesterday. No issues at all so far.

From: KSflatlander
30-Apr-21

KSflatlander's Link
“Over 230 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through April 26, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 3,848 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events, including deaths, reported to VAERS.“

From: spike78
30-Apr-21
That’s BS the CDC is telling us that none of the deaths are due to the vaccine yet young healthy women just coincidentally died within a few days to weeks after vaccine? KS you sure do have a lot of faith in what our government tells us don’t you. You should get “Naive” tattooed to your forehead.

From: 70lbdraw
30-Apr-21
"A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths."

Really? I saw a CNN reporter standing in front of a burning building and claiming it was a peaceful protest. I heard about the Capitol police officer that was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher by Trump supporters. But when they discovered he died of an aneurysm they conveniently neglected to change their story. I guess Kool-Aid does come in a variety of flavors afterall!

From: Rut Nut
30-Apr-21
I'm picturing KSflatlander with a tampon sticking out of each ear! ;-)

30-Apr-21
" I have heard of 2 friends (totally unrelated) who have gotten really sick from the vaccine in the last week. One died aNd the other is still recovering."

both may have gotten sick, one might have died, but id bet anything the death wasnt from the vaccine.

From: KSflatlander
30-Apr-21
“Really? I saw a CNN reporter standing in front of a burning building and claiming it was a peaceful protest. I heard about the Capitol police officer that was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher by Trump supporters. But when they discovered he died of an aneurysm they conveniently neglected to change their story. I guess Kool-Aid does come in a variety of flavors afterall!“

None of which have anything to do with the CDC or Covid vaccine deaths. That’s called a red herring.

By the way 70lbs, how’s the Obamacare treating through this pandemic? Obamacare that I’m paying for you to be on…you socialist communist. You’re welcome.

Rut nut- that’s a good trick picturing me as you don’t even know what I look like. I prefer pads anyways.

From: EMB
30-Apr-21
I have long since run out of popcorn and peanuts for this show. I got my first Moderna shot yesterday. My shoulder is a little sore with no other appreciable effects. Next one is late May. Frankly, since Covid and this issue has become so politicized, I do not know who to trust or what to believe. I certainly don't trust the government, CNN, MSMBC, ABC, CBS, or other main stream fake media for much of anything, rarely follow government "suggestions" (mandates), and will continue to quietly and privately manage my risk and do things my way without regard to the CDC and the other news and government morons. My decision to get the vaccine had everything to do with my wife having medical issues that put her at high risk if she were to contract Covid. We each should manage our own risks without berating others for the way they choose to manage theirs. As for tampons they may great ear plugs to silence the government, fake news, and left wing noise.

Cheers. One popcorn with double butter please.

From: 70lbdraw
30-Apr-21
"None of which have anything to do with the CDC or Covid vaccine deaths. That’s called a red herring."

Correct, but it gives the impression that the China Joe administration will lie about anything if it fits the agenda.

You'll have to elaborate on the Obama care thing. My health insurance definitely sucks, but I'd be surprised to find out that you were paying for it.

From: bowhunt
30-Apr-21
I'm in Oregon, and 41 years old. Got the first vaccine a couple weeks ago. Scheduled to get the second May 12th. I think it was April 16th they opened up vaccines to anyone who wants it, but i would guess it will take a 2 months or so for everyone that wants the vaccine to get both doses.

Our Governor just extended her state of emergency powers for 60 more days, and put most of the populated areas in the state in the extreme risk lock down again as of today. The agency that regulates all business in the state is going to decide weather or not to make businesses enforcing the mask mandates, new air filtration rules for all businesses, and other rules permanent next week.

The American experiment of all the states creating their own rules is on full display. It should start becoming evident who got it right and who got it wrong.

I'm not overly confident my state will be "normal" anytime soon.

From: Will
30-Apr-21
Kevin Dill - so sorry she had to experience working with that sick little one. I feel you - and feel for her and the kiddo. My wife had to send a 4YO to the hospital recently due to COVID... she's had to send a few folks in their 20's this past 2 week period. These were healthy folks outside one. Regardless, those are young folks to potentially end up with long haulers issues, or to be hospitalized with oxygen etc... And this is in MA where numbers are dropping very solidly.

The amazing thing is that at the current rate, the "long term" complications of infection vs vaccination are so massively worse (natural infection being enormously worse) it's crazy... Similarly people act like infection is "healthier" than vaccination, which is a massive logical fallacy and factually incorrect.

Heck, even stuff that, I'll risk the assumption, MOST people reading this have or do use often, like Ibuprofen, Tylenol etc have a WORSE (considerably) rate of significant side effects than the vaccines available to us for COVID.

One could make a solid case that Chiropractic cervical adjustment has a strongly worse rate of serious complications like vertebral artery dissections... Actually, it's an easy case given the evidence available on that subject.

Then again, I'm growing a lizard tail, and my eyes glow when I walk past a 5g tower... Sooo...

I just wish

From: 4nolz@work
30-Apr-21
If people turn into zombies I hope they are the slow ones from The Walking Dead and not those fast suckers from WorldWarZ

30-Apr-21
A little muscle soreness today. Slightly snotty and congested. Low grade fever. Some fatigue and running a little slower. Nothing big. I still worked. I’m just going to relax and go to bed early for a change. Normally the wife and kids work me like a rented mule.

Far less than what my friends have said they experienced with mild cases.

If I grow a lizard tail later, maybe I can make some easy money in the circus.

30-Apr-21
Will, some aren’t acting at all. Some just don’t have to be fed their logic.

Reality has slipped by a good percentage of Americans. It’s no surprise that percentage rate holds true with bowsiters too. I’m not talking about people who’ve received the vaccine. I’m talking about those that keep insinuating it’s the only humane approach. You know, for your fellow man.

The death rate, however exploited it is, shows a better chance of surviving Covid if contracted, then any activity we participate in. Yet, we have the shame stories of how awful it is some have to struggle to be in that category. By people who vote to kill a million Americans a year while defenseless in the womb. Can you cry wolf any louder? Have you fell and bumped your head while climbing up on your soap box?

I have zero issues with anyone’s choices on this vaccine. I’m happy for you where ever you stand. But, It’s beyond stupid to suggest the vaccine hasn’t killed people. When common aspirin does. Are people really that stupid? It appears so. Set back and read for the proof on that one.

It’s killed people. It’s going to kill more. But, it is a undeniable fact that we truly don’t know how severe it is because money and politics got involved a long time ago.

Instead, the community do gooders would line us all up and give us a shot. For everyone else’s good. While voting out right or declaring the murder of a baby who can’t fight for itself, as being a choice of the individual women. Against all humanity we know, and all morality we’ve been given by God himself. I’m shaking my head at this. If fundamentals are applied equally across the board to determine right versus wrong, these same people willingly double back against their humanity spill and cut their fellow mans throat in a second. The proof is on these pages.

For those that keep on insisting we must get vaccinated, Feel free to rebut with something besides the same old I’m doing it for my neighbor crap. Because proof dictates that’s not true at all.

But, keep the shameful stories coming. Keep on telling us how awful it is that some don’t choose your choice of reality. Or, the bloated science project being fed to us by people who truly don’t know much at all about this virus. It’s soul telling for sure.

30-Apr-21
"...It’s beyond stupid to suggest the vaccine hasn’t killed people. When common aspirin does. Are people really that stupid?"

the sun kills people. water kills people. it is equally beyond stupid to believe that a vaccine which has been approved by the FDA is going to kill people outside of what would be considered incidental.

30-Apr-21
I agree, the vaccine by measuring standards, should be considered safe. From all reports. Personally, I believe it to be safe. I’ve said so about 3 times in this thread.

But, stupid isn’t lack of faith in whether it’s safe based on medicinal terms. It’s believing the same groups that have blatantly lied to the American people for years and, are responsible for delivering that medicinal information, might just be fudging the truth.

Another example of blatant stupidity isn’t acknowledging at least that one example, of several reasons, for being wary of anything they offer.

From: Matt
30-Apr-21
"Another example of blatant stupidity isn’t acknowledging at least that one example, of several reasons, for being wary of anything they offer."

Like great deals on coolers? ;-)

01-May-21
WV

I personally can’t see the FDA, wanting to inject people to kill them.

I’ve taken the approach that there is no denying that “it” is working to get everyone into a safer position. Just think about if we didn’t even have one to use.

I’m also certain, as a society, we are not told everything. Highly doubt it in fact. But I’m also as certain that everyone wants this crap gone or at least under control.

From: wilhille
01-May-21
I wonder if there is a correlation between the people who ordered an Rtic cooler and didn't get the vaccine????

You're playing the same game talking about the vaccine. Except instead of hurting people through their bank account, you're doing it with their life. And yes, you did it. If you wouldn't have posted the scam, I doubt so many on this site would've fallen for it. Do you think that someone might take your anti vac rhetoric seriously, not get the vaccine get sick and possibly die? I do. They did it with their money just days ago.

I respect your decision to not get vaccinated. Your call. But spreading false narratives and lies about it is stupid and irresponsible.

There are obviously people on here that will believe something they WANT to be true. How many hundreds of dollars did people have to scramble to save? Maybe the "good sale" thread was a way that you can see that you might not be in a position to post about coolers, let alone covid.

From: KSflatlander
01-May-21
In WVs defense, he has not said anything anti-vaccine. I think he is just advocating for choice and I completely agree. I just disagree on the risk of the vaccine. Seems like a no brainer to me if you understand how vaccines work and the very minimal risks. It’s 1000Xs more risky driving to get the vaccine than the risk of the vaccine itself. I just don’t follow the logic of those who don’t get it but I’m not them. However, if you don’t get it and private companies refuse to service you then that is their right. Airlines, hotels, restaurants, stores, etc. No b#%^ing or whining if they do refuse service as it’s your choice.

By the way, the medical professionals in the CDC… there isn’t 100% turnover when a new president is elected. Many have been there for decades through many presidencies. They have done amazing things to protect us. The CDC is made up of scientists who have dedicated themselves to improving health sciences. Condemning all of them for a very small few bad apples is as bad as defund the police philosophy. The exact same illogical thinking as 70lbs, TD, Hackbow, itshot, Rupe, and Woods Walker demonstrate here on a daily basis. They are just on the opposite end of the spectrum as Antifa but every bit as bad.

From: 70lbdraw
01-May-21
Ryan, I don't recall saying anything that comes close to condemning the CDC over this. And I GUARANTEE you I haven't shown any disrespect for police. Similarly, I don't condemn all teachers, only the ones that play the union card to get their leverage while claiming its for our children.

Comparing me to antifa...? If you knew anything about me you would know that is as far from the truth as me saying that you support (and I assume you don't)the cop that shot an unarmed woman in the halls of our Capitol. Or that you support the street thugs that ambush and kill police because they uphold the rule of law. You do remember the rule of law don't you? The side you support doesn't,...if that doesn't trouble you...nothing does.

From: Teeton
01-May-21
I have not have not weighed in on this thread, as I didnt much of anything productive to post. But after chatting with one of my customers that works in a hospital this week. The rate of folks getting c19 that work in the hospital that are have been vaccinated has dropped to zero. Of the cases of c19 that have come in the past 2 weeks. None of them had been vaccinated. I can't comment on whats happening long term with this vaccination. I guess time will tell.

From: KSflatlander
01-May-21
Bryan- you should change your handle to spineless. Are you one of those henpecked guys that talks s#%^ with his buddies but completely caves when to wife tells him how it is?

I posted CDC data on Covid vaccine and deaths and you immediately used a red herring to discredit the CDC. Then your last response…I think they call that crawfishing.

I believe the shooting inside the capital was justified. I absolutely believe in the rule of law. Everyone that went beyond a barricade at the Capitol or went in should be arrested and put in prison with a 10 year minimum as they WERE BREAKING THE LAW.

From: KSflatlander
01-May-21

From: Matt
01-May-21
"In WVs defense, he has not said anything anti-vaccine. I think he is just advocating for choice and I completely agree."

Not entirely, but the irony is that he has frequently used the notion of "common sense" to question or deny medical recommendations and then recently demonstrated an egregious lack thereof.

From: 70lbdraw
01-May-21
You're right...I poo-pooed the article you posted. I still do. With the way the news is delivered to us these days, I don't trust s**t your govt tells us, and I have no doubt that the results can possibly be skewed or tampered with. But that's what your govt has bred into us for years, and you continue to soak it up like a sponge and promote it as fact.

As for spineless...You'll need to do better than that. Im a realist. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, and I'll question everything that affects my life, but you're pretty bold calling me spineless, when you defend and parrot the preaching of the democratic party.

From: KSflatlander
01-May-21
You don’t see your own contradiction in these last few posts? You are a loyal Trump guy on Obamacare. Are you sure you know who you are and what you stand for?

I don’t parrot anything and I’m not a democrat. There is plenty I disagree with in the current administration. I belong to no party. I make up my own mind and have voted for Rs and Ds.

It appears you’re just one of those guys that thinks all Americans fit in one of two boxes…a binary thinker. And you don’t fit in either one yourself lol. Trumper on Obamacare…that’s a special kind of person.

From: JohnMC
01-May-21
Who thinks Matt and flatbrimmer should get a room?

From: Old Bow
01-May-21

 Old Bow 's embedded Photo
I don’t feel the need to take the shot .
 Old Bow 's embedded Photo
I don’t feel the need to take the shot .

01-May-21
Matt, the one thing I’ve learned about life is don’t laugh too hard at someone else’s misfortune. Yes, I thought I was helping everyone with the cooler deal. Yes, it was uncharacteristic and stupid to not research it more before posting. But, if that makes me different then you, I’ll take that as a compliment everyday.

01-May-21
FWIW, you’d have to be below a 2nd graders level in reading comprehension to think I’ve ever said anything except I think the vaccine was safe. Especially in the short term.

From: D-Wad
02-May-21
The CDC has done nothing for COVID all the while the GVT ie CDC has let guys like Fauci keep patent right for work paid for by the people or taxpayers. Also, the GVT allows CDC employees to partner with private firms and keep those patent rights. If this was any other sector of GVT except DOD it would be regulated or basically an illegal act.

The CDC or NIH or the host of other Nat Institutes did nothing for the Virus. In fact Fauci was expressly told "to end funding for Wuhan Lab studies under Obama". So Fauci at went around that funding order and had a friend in NY funnel the study monies to the Wuhan lab. That man has been head of many National Institutes for NIH where he was a good politician for getting more funding. Starting with Aids in 1984 and since has been a camera hound mainly. If this mans lips are moving he's selling something for funding and COVID was this mans dream for Power come true.

We have not heard the last of this little fellow. The future will shake this tree and we shall see what it reveals. Do the math 4.6 billion humans/ death from true Covid =99.8% survival rate. A very weak virus and pandemic. Panic and power grab for Fauci and GVT 100% effective.

02-May-21
i hear there having a great sale on covid19 vaccines. with every purchase of a covid vaccine you get a free random piece of RTIC drinkware. www.covidvackseen.com they only accept paypal friends and family and itunes gift cards but thats how they keep the costs down.

From: KSflatlander
02-May-21

KSflatlander's Link
D-Wad- you obviously have been deep in conspiracy theory propaganda. Fauci owns no patents involving Covid vaccines. It is a conspiracy theory. It is false.

The CDC is and always has been our first line of defense against new and deadly disease worldwide. Without them disease detection, identification, transmission, and treatment around the world would not be even close to proactive. Had we not followed CDC and NIH recommendations then the death toll from this pandemic would have been in the millions in the US.

Ever notice how the conspiracy idiots have nothing to back up there claim and always seek a scapegoat (like Fauci). Please tell me who was the president and boss of the CDC and NIH during this pandemic? When they go after the science and scientists baselessly…you should take a huge step back as it a prime indicator that fascism is involved.

D-Wad- use your brain and just do a little bit of fact checking and you might just live a happier life.

Unfreaking believable and terrifyingly scary…

From: Jackaroo
02-May-21
Some people should check their fact checkers before scolding others about their facts. Has the fact checker disclosed if they are in fact checkers checkking opinions which are unverifiable or are they actually checking facts that can be verified? What sources are they using. Are they using media sources a majority of the time are they using partisan government sources? How are the fact checkers qualified to check facts? Who is paying the fact checkers.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/fact_check_review/?dr=2017-10-22%20to%202021-05-02&all_time=1&foo=0&featId=25

From: 70lbdraw
02-May-21
Ryan, what have I lied about? You not agreeing with my opinion doesn't automatically make me a liar.

From: KSflatlander
02-May-21
Jackaroo- same ole same ole argument but nothing to do with Fauci and patents. Does Fauci have Covid vaccine patents or not? The answer is fact not opinion. Your focus on me and not the loony tunes D-Wad post says everything about you. Do you care about facts and the truth or not? Misinformation, lies, and conspiracy theories are tearing this country apart.

70lbs/ when did I call you a liar?

From: goelk
02-May-21
got my shots about month ago

From: Mike in CT
02-May-21
Good afternoon all!

First, apologies to Matt (Grey Ghost) for my somehow missing this thread and not chiming in as he indicated he thought I might in his 2/21 post. Working closely with ICU doctors since the onset of this pandemic has kept me hopping to put in mildly and I've had long stretches where I've pretty much been on call 24/7; that's ok as we've been able to mitigate some of the devastating consequences of COVID infections and I'll take some loss of sleep and the loss of anything resembling a social life any day of the week and twice on Sundays in trade.

Here's something I actually posted on a social media site at the behest of some friends and to address some of the mind-blowing lunacy I saw there. I hope this helps and will respond to any questions as quickly as I can; please feel free to send them.

COVID-19 was highly politicized from the onset for one glaringly obvious reason; it had the ability to do what none of the 23 dwarves (aka Democrat contenders for the nomination for POTUS) could do; defeat Donald Trump. Misinformation became the order of the day as statements he made were often published out of context while statements and actions he took that were positive were under-reported if not completely ignored.

Cases were tracked to miscast a pandemic as an impending apocalypse and the number of cases was a gross exaggeration of reality owing to the misuse of a highly sensitive confirmatory assay (PCR) as a screening test. Frightening statistics on severe outcomes (even with survival) and deaths were published as raw numbers absent any meaningful context, such as underlying chronic comorbidities that also predispose those same people to adverse outcomes, up to and including death from a myriad of common diseases that Americans have been numbed to, owing to their frequency.

The campaign of misinformation didn't stop there; we've seen a number of claims about vaccines that in an ordinary time would have quickly been consigned to the scrap heap. We have seen EUA (Emergency Use Authorization) portrayed as "pray it works or at least doesn't kill you", tracking chips that will monitor your every bowel movement (and all others) and questions about efficacy that are naive at best given the relatively short span of time we've had to assess their impact.

We've been told that even fully vaccinated individuals should still wear a mask, possibly long-term, though this flies in the face of principles of immunology.

So what do we know? Well, we know that immunity is a function of immunocompetence; each individual will determine how effective their immune response will be based on that foundation. This will be the same whether exposure is via vaccination or through natural exposure (infection). We know that in immunocompetent individuals there is a high likelihood of not only effective immunity but long-lasting immunity barring major antigenic variation in SARS-CoV-2 (mutation(s)). We know that as more strains are isolated they will be sequenced and we will have the ability to develop multivalent vaccines that may preclude the need for annual vaccinations.

Here's what I believe; I see