Laws of using a guide
General Topic
Canada residents hunting in most of US not required to use guide, US residents hunting in Canada required to use guide. Since I was a kid (70's) I have always hated our US trade agreements until some of the recent redo's. Not a trade agreement perse but this really bugs me. So I don't hunt in Canada. Nothing against guides. I'm interested in hearing some thoughts here on this.
Over the years I’ve only used guides for around 20-25 hunts which is a small portion of my lifetime of bow hunting. That said most have been in Canada and each one has been a great learning experience and I’ve also made lifelong friends. Feel so blessed to have hunted with these guys that share their passion. I’ve hunted almost every Canadian Province.
That's a good point Saphead. The courtesy is not reciprocated.
Have hunted 4 different Canadian provinces many times in my lifetime. If my guide was quality; and only 2 in over 30 trips were not, the remainder are personal friends of myself and my hunting buddies. Enjoying the friendship of quality guides in the US and Canada results in very enjoyable hunting.
Its the “ requirement not weather was a good trip or met someone you like. You can do that on your own. Its the requirement that you meet someone.
Country , provinces , states, can define how things happen in their jurisdictions. Reciprocal hunting requirements are not high on that list.
Borders, language, culture it is what defines a country.
The way of doing things and freedom here do not follow you across the borders. Would rather it would but it doesn't .
You can still cross the border and make cherished life long friends on your own no guide required, yet.
If hunting make sure their government approved.
If a guide wasn't required for NR's & NR aliens in say NWT or Yukon or BC or Alberta or etc, for species like moose or caribou or sheep, they'd have to put those hunts on a public draw for NR. Then NR's would be in the same situation we have here in our western states, where getting a chance to hunt those species would be nearly a once-per-lifetime situation. Being that the resource is so limited, there has to be some kind of throttle. So the provincial game departments choose to let outfitters be the "throttle" by channeling all NR hunters through them, under quotas. It was working pretty well.....until Covid hit.
But I agree, it should be guide-required for all high-demand big game species for non-resident aliens in the USA as well. I'd think any state game department could do that if they wanted to.
Except for migratory birds, hunting is under Provincial jurisdiction.
Apart from special draws (almost impossible to get drawn), or having close family members living there, etc., Canadian residents need to go through an outfitter at least half the time to hunt the big game species of Canada in other provinces than their own.
Can’t say I disagree. Bottom line is that many of the big game animals in Canada have limited populations and if non-residents could hunt without a guide they would be flooded with US hunters leading to depleted game herds, poor trophy quality, and would likely lead to lottery type draws that you will never draw a tag. Seems like Alaska has a lot of restrictions on what non-resident US citizens can hunt.
First off it’s a complicated issue USA to Canada and even within Canada between provinces.
Canadians freely coming to the USA are a very small number and have little negative or positive effect to the hunting in the USA. Now Americans freely coming to Canada would have a huge effect, hundreds of thousands of them would be coming here and a non resident alien draw would have to be immediately implemented. Then the American that draws a tag would have to come to Canada and quickly get up to speed on very different laws compared to the USA. The biggest one being NO paying for access to private hunting grounds. Which most Americans think is absurd and is easily circumvented with cash payments, paying for crop, parking fees etc BUT the vast majority of Canadian outfitters never do it. It’s almost seen like a bribe to a cop, not even considered. We certainly don’t do it. It’s much more likely to happen with Americans hunting on there own here. Local Canadians would be very upset. Another big one is that the Canadian governments see the paid USA tourism part as a way better way, more money, to benefit Canada as a whole than just allowing Americans to come up on their own. It’s a big industry in Canada, it would never be big business in the USA with Canadians tourists so why bother setting it up.
The final one is that Canadian provinces are very restrictive with fellow Canadians. In most cases we can’t just get tags in another province and go hunt, especially with in demand hunts. There is some allowance for family and friends to hunt other provinces but it’s on a strictly no payment allowed, must accompany the other hunters basis. Saskatchewan mule deer is only for Sask residents, no one else and I’m jealous because they can come hunt Alberta with an Alberta buddy for OTC tags but not for sheep so haha, we got you Sask guys with that one! Just kidding, but it illustrates the complications of it all.
And I’m an Alberta outfitter so it would ruin my business to just let Americans come up plus they get a hopefully much better experience doing it with us than on their own.
I'll never hunt Canada again, hunted caribou once in Quebec, the guide service was horrible, it was warm and every single caribou in camp spoiled from the heat, EVERY SINGLE ONE. Did a bear hunt in New Brunswick. Our group saw 2 bears the whole week, I guess they saved the good spots for other "celebrity" hunters as the guide service was given a spread in a popular bowhunting magazine. Crossing the border was a real fun time. I had to disclose a DUI from several years earlier in the states. After getting lectured by the Border Mounty about how evil I was, I had to pay a bribe of 450 bucks to enter the Queens land and then it was a visa long enough to cover the hunt duration. If I want to go back, I have to cut off my left pinky I'm such a horrible person according to them.
If the Canadians would migrate somewhere other than Florida in the Winter that would please me :)
Hopefully you don't hunt AK or WY either.
Most Canadians are good people. No reason to slam them.
I have some really good friends in Ontario and New Brunswick. They are like family. They have their idiots just like we do as well as a corrupt government like the test of the world. Other than that they are just trying to scratch out a living and enjoy life like the rest of us.
Until recently it’s been like there was no border at all. The people who work at the border are definitely assholes! Disclaimer: Not always. Crossing from Maine to NB they were very nice. I found the people of Quebec not too big on Americans but then again at that point in time they weren’t fond of people from Ontario or anywhere else.
They are our neighbors so I can’t see why we can’t get along. I’m sure we can all think of worse countries to have as neighbors. I know I wouldn’t want Canadians to judge me by what my government does that’s for sure!!!
How do we factor the superiority of Canadian beer into the equation?
Labbatts Blue plus 5 points!
As a Canadian I WISH I could hunt the Canadian provinces as well!!!!
So 2 years ago when I wanted to hunt mulies I saw myself crossing the border and hunting mulies in USA as opposed to the gigantic mule deer in Saskatchewan or Alberta. Our country lays the hate on everyone equally.
What’s even more rediculous is that our province with average whitetail hunting allows any Canadian in, and yet I can’t even hunt provinces with good deer populations
Thanks all. I had thought of most of these things. Didn't know rules province to province.
A draw would be nice in Canada for us from the states. I would rather it be both ways even. Even tho not many come down to hunt in US . Some do. Or rather it be a draw in Canada since there would be many wanting to go north to hunt. Matt Not exactly the same situation. I hunt Wyoming and Alaska all the time. Don't like there are some things I can't hunt or places. There is no big game I can hunt in Canada by myself.
In Sask non-residents are allowed to hunt game birds and waterfowl without a guide. Unfortunately some US residents buy a rural house or acreage and start bringing lots and lots of groups of “Friends” to hunt with them for weeks on end. Most of the friends pay a cash fee to their host. That is illegal outfitting. The same thing happened when non-residents could hunt big game on their own back in 1970’s. So the government made big game hunters use a licensed outfitter. Because there are many more bird hunters ( = more $$ spent in rural areas) and farmers want bird populations controlled US hunters can go it alone. Many still use outfitters, more convenient than hauling their own gear up here. Until several years ago Canadian residents could buy a OTC whitetail tag and hunt SK. There was a serious problem with illegal outfitters bring in illegal clients from Quebec. Now Canadians must apply for a draw deer tag specifying a certain game managemant zone or they have the option of hunting with a licensed outfitter. The draw system cut way back on illegal activity. As a DIY guy myself I understand the frustration. I did some unguided hog and javelina hunts in south Texas with buddies and loved it.
Sap...I do not wait to go north to hunt; I just go! What is nice is the services of quality outfitters and their guides as there is no need to enter a draw. Here in the states try drawing a moose tag in Maine! As soon as I enter QC, my first stop is an SAQ...6 six packs of Molson's XXX...cold, camp medicine for the evening after chasing moose in NL, black bear in QC, or caribou out of Yellowknife. The best was chasing Johnny Walker Black down with XXX with my fellow guides on Lake Heluva, QC after cooking the evening meals for 9 American clients/and guides who had been flown around until they hit a monster segment of the migration at the camp I had set up 4 days earlier. Camps in the US and Canada who have good guides are usually fully booked. If DIY is your thing so be it. Such has never appealed to me, but I have taken many whitetail out of the Adirondack Mts...they were all DIY.
I know some outstanding human beings that are outfitters or guides. I just prefer to do this hunt thing without help. Part of it for me. I see why Canada has the rules. Definitely benefits Canada and gives them better control. Just don't like the un even field. I like that I can go to New Zealand and hunt myself. As they can here. Good Trade.
Rob Nye made some great points too, in the 70’s and 80’s and before it was the Wild West in Alberta with unlimited non resident hunters. The government received so many complaints they knew it had to be regulated, so the Outfitting, tourism system was born. A lot of Americans love the fact that they can buy say a moose hunt here instead of having to enter another moose draw like in the lower 48 with very low draw odds. If they add up all of their moose draw money over the years they could have just bought a hunt in Canada!
It is no favor to me as a US resident that I can hire an outfitter for 10,000 and hunt a moose in Canada. It is nice for Canada res to come here to US and draw a tag and hunt moose for the price of the tag. Or elk over the counter or whitetail deer, wolf, sheep, goat, pigs, bear, turkey, lion, javelina, mule deer whatever they want. Doesn't matter what the problems were this solution is one sided.
Whatever the laws and rules I’m sure glad to have hunted Canada and it’s different province’s and I am reminded when I look around my trophy room and see lots of great hunts and memories . Hopefully more in the future.
Sap...I'd never pay anywhere near $10,000 for a moose hunt in Canada, nor anywhere else. My group hunted moose very successfully with the same outfitter in NL late season as he would bring in clients at $3,000 including tag/taxes. Clients provided food/cooked meals and the outfitter provided very successful 1 x 1 hunts. He did this to give his guides an extra two weeks work and I am sure he put some extra in his pocket...6 trips... 7th trip was early Oct....different outfitter...$4,500. Totally agree with Southern draw!!!!
My family has a fishing cabin in northern ontario and I regularly duck hunt in another province.
Canada has some funky rules. but most of the times what applies to us citizens also applies to other canadiens that live outside of the province. So, they're consistent.
Also, when you look at Wyoming's wilderness laws and states like Utah's draw policies. It is very similar.
Does it suck yes? but then if i was smart I'd move to alberta and get OTC sheep tags.
