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Trail camera ban in Az
With Arizona passing the Commission ban- thoughts? Found this video and looks like fireworks are in progress....
They are opening up a HUGE can of worms IMO. As far as I am concerned, these guys trying to usurp the G&F commission rule are no better than the sierra club or animal legal defense fund. Just ask yourself, what is their motivation? It's money (guides) and they know cameras help them locate animals (guides & non-guides). Anyone who says different isn't being honest. I care more about AZ wildlife than I do about these guys, their pockets or their egos. As someone who uses cameras I am thankful for the new rule.
I think technology is taking the fair chase out of hunting. I hope cameras become illegal everywhere. At least public land or during season. Understand that the pictures are enjoyable though
There’s two (2) other threads on this… https://forums.bowsite.com/TF/bgforums/thread.cfm?threadid=493410&messages=23&forum=36 https://forums.bowsite.com/TF/bgforums/thread.cfm?threadid=491544&messages=177&forum=36
Where does fair chase end???? Since we only hunt public- maybe we should ban all private, feeders, high fence, radios, ground blinds, camo that holds our sent, high end glass that allows an individual to pattern a critter, guides whom watch every move the critter makes, water especially when drought conditions, range finders, high end bows with 80% let off, etc.... where does it end..... I Think we are all guilty of the newest technology..
There are two other threads on this topic. Why make another?
There are two other threads on this topic. Why make another?
Because it’s already been discussed (both sides) and it’s a done deal.........unless you’re just trolling or 15. :)
Nope... Not all all- a true bowhunter who never used a guide, all public with huge success in Az. This is not over.. did you see the video? The truth will set you free unless you think fair chase is a personal viewpoint without science or fact and your anti camera???? Where does it stop, as I am sure you are using the newest technology that you hunt with... That my friend is truth!
Ha....okay. You’re an awesome AZ hunter....good for you!
I’m afraid it’s over as far as cameras are concerned, and the video is the same song and dance that was claimed when they made baiting illegal.....yet it’s still illegal. Don’t hold your breath.....just learn to hunt without them.
Learn to hunt? I have harvested over 50 big animals within Az without a trail cameras... Being a born and raised Arizonan and not a transplant to gain a resident license... One would think since no facts were provided before the Oct 2020 EM rule to the governor or there after... Bowhunters, and hunter would stand up against a personal agenda without facts.. Its like a law enforcement officer arresting someone without any cause or justification.... Specifically, "The use of trail cameras pose an increasing threat of breach of peace as social media surrounding the use of trail cameras indicate potential for violent confrontation" Where is all the documentation?? and not hearsay? Did you hear the commission meeting?? All the commissioners only talked excuses why trail cameras are not fair chase.... Sure appears like they violated the EM rule executive order by not addressing the public outreach to save individuals from trail cameras and the violent interactions...
That guy in the video is delusional. A lawsuit over trail cams? Seriously? IMO, cameras do not increase success however they provide a check list of what is in the area and guys may pass on a good animal because they know there is a great buck/bull nearby.
Lets say a guy has a massive 10pt on his camera that he has patterned pretty well. Opening day, a good 10pt is walking right towards your stand and will offer you a 20 yard shot however its not big daddy. In any other situation, you're shooting this one BUT, you know there's a much larger 10pt around and you've got another 3 days to hunt. Take the trail cam out of the equation, would you really pass on this good 10pt?
Makes one wonder how ANY animals were ever harvested before game cameras came along!!! :) This is where a little common sense could have been used on both sides of the fence!
"I think technology is taking the fair chase out of hunting."
My thoughts exactly. Imagine that. People using woodsmanship skills to find their quarry.
Chuckster, I don't really see how what you are saying is a bad thing? So what if a person passes a very nice animal because he knows there's a better one out there somewhere? Isn't he only potentially hurting himself? Many people do that anyway even if they didn't use a trail camera to scout. Perhaps they found a huge animal while scouting via glassing or driving around, and then they pass a good, but not great, animal during the hunt knowing there is a better one. Who is better off if he killed the nice but not great animal, the wildlife, the public? Many people that are after one truly big animal (perhaps because they found it with a trail cam) pass lesser animals during the hunt and end up not taking any animal during the hunt. Is that a BAD thing for society? Isn't taking the most mature, potentially near the end of (or past) their "prime" animal best for the game population?
Technology has hurt bowhunting, go back to fingers on the string and ban the cameras on public and get back to woodsmanship of bowhunting.
Prolly should get rid of RangeFinders, Bino’s, Spottingscopes, OnX, BaseMaps, HuntFinder and anything else that helps also…Shoot, how about the Internet too! Lol
I would love to make them illegal on all public land year round. I would love to make it legal for a citizen to remove and destroy all cameras on public land.
How is it anyone's "right" to indiscriminately take pictures of people who actually have a RIGHT to be on the land? How does making cameras illegal infringe on your rights? Does making cameras illegal prevent you from going hunting? I don't get it. If anything, cameras infringe on my rights to privacy by acting as a surveillance tool.
Well done Arizona.
Hey I only stated my opinion on a public, opinion based thread about it. I said nothing to you, about you or referenced you at all. I can see that I hurt your little feelers. I don't know how or really care, but I'll apologize. I'm sorry.
If you would like to discuss on what you disagree with on this forum, I'm all ears. Tell me what is wrong or what you disagree with my statement. Tell me why you feel it's wrong. Maybe we can discuss this like men, instead of calling each other dessert treats lol.
If you would rather be a little boy, spout off somewhere else. I'm not interested with your flirting.
Lol…You must never leave the house or your mom’s basement…Worried about your picture being taken without your consent…LMAO. Man, don’t go into town! All those business and residential security systems, must drive you crazy…So run along cupcake, go troll somewhere else!
Maybe some people like to escape. Maybe some understand that when you enter a private business you have no choice to go on camera but when we step outside we kind of want the solitude and anonymity that the woods provide.
I see we can't talk like men. Got it. Go setup your cameras, boy. With enough pictures, you might get a pic of my junk as I take a leak in front of your camera. Maybe that'll make your day.
I really have no idea why you're making this so personal and attacking me. I never replied to you nor did I reference you, Ike(phone).
Rocky boots has a deal through the end of august. Bring in your trail cam and trade it in on a pair of boots.
I rather enjoy using trail cameras and seeing all the animals. I have seen photos in places that their use is ridiculous with a dozen or more of them at a waterhole. I've never messed with anyone's cameras, but technically, on public land, wouldn't they be considered abandoned property and anyone would be welcome to them? Not advocating anyone taking them, I just don't think it's technically illegal to do so.
Ben that is absurd. If you leave your truck on public property to backpack in for a week to hunt would that make anyone welcome to it. Could I anyone take a treestand that was legally put up on public property? Of course not.
JohnMC, titled property is entirely different than random stuff you find in the woods. I'd be willing to bet there is a law stating that after so many days it's considered abandoned property. I'm not going to mess with anyone's stuff, or suggest others do, I just doubt it's a crime if someone does take them. In years of putting out cameras, I've only had 1 stolen and it was a piece of crap; I have 5 out on public land right now.
"...their use is ridiculous with a dozen or more of them at a waterhole." "I have 5 out on public land right now."
So, it's ok if you put a camera out, but if a handful of other hunters out of the hundreds or thousands of hunters that have that same unit (for any number of different species who's hunts might be coming up) are interested in putting up a camera at the same prime spot you chose, then it's ridiculous? I really never understood why a few cameras on a water hole doesn't seem to offend most people, but if even 1 or 2% of the hunters in a popular elk unit in the west wanted to put a camera at the same water hole (which might be 10-20 cameras or more), it's suddenly ludicrous and cameras should be banned. Shouldn't every hunter be entitled to put a camera in the spots they think are best? Are the first 1 or 2 hunters justified, but after that it's suddenly a sin? Why are 10 cameras on the same water offensive if 2 or 3 isn't? If your comeback is that it should be first come first served, and after 3 cameras nobody else should be allowed to put their's in that spot, that would exclude most DIY hunters. Guides normally put out cameras way before the average hunter ever knows he was drawn for a permit. By the reasoning that more than a couple of cameras is out of control, no DIY hunter could ever place a camera because every water in every top unit in a state like Arizona has 5-10 guide cameras on it before a DIY has been drawn for his permit.
I'm old school - hate the fact that ONX allows someone to find a spot that may have taken a guy years and hard work to find in an instant, so, I've resisted to use. Same with cameras - wish every state would ban (at least on public land), but, know I'm in the minority and a large % of hunters totally disagree with my view(s) including most friends and guys I know that hunt. Think range finding sights like Garmin are cool, but, won't use. Archery used to be a primitive endeavor - no longer the case. My compound shoots 245 fps, so, I have a distinct advantage over the recurve shooter. And use a range finder myself. So, I haven't totally rejected technology, but, would like to see more limitations and believe many of today's tools violate the spirit of fair chase. Same with baiting. I don't do it, but, have no issues with it since it's legal. If these are all legal, then I don't judge anybody for utilizing them. My question: when/where will we draw the line?
I'm with you StickFlicker. It's easy to say stop "them". But often it's not that clear cut. Honestly I don't know the "solution". But a ban seems over the top to me.
Next will we ban treestands because there are 4 of them around a waterhole? Or place a limit on the number of trucks that can be parked at any one trailhead? Have a sign-in sheet at every Forest Road access and once 5 people have entered, shut the gate because that's the magic limit?
I don’t know the solution either, as I think many folks probably use them sensibly. I do know that when older age class animals (deer on the Strip, elk in some dry trophy units) are targeted year round by photo/video surveillance , at very limited water supplies, the resource can not continue to handle that pressure......something had to be done. You can thank a few outfitters/guides for that practice!
I still believe a season and/or prohibiting them on man-made water sources would have had made an improvement to the older aged class animals.....and more easily enforced. I hunted for 40 years without them, so a few more years isn’t going to be a burden.
I heard that they are working on a bill now that will ban mechanical release aids unless you have a doctors note...... It wont effect me much since i'm getting older.
The problem with all of this is that the language is poorly written and not thought out. I agree that there are areas of the state getting pounded. They should have just made a season you write your name on the camera with loss of hunting privileges if your cameras were out after that date.
Then the next problem Forrest closures................How do you remove your cameras when it is illegal to go in the forrest??????
I guess the world is just at critical mass with a lot of humans trying to enjoy limited resources.
The good (or really bad in the scheme of things) news is that in Arizona, it's an absolute total joke to qualify to use mechanical aids/devices claiming a handicap for bowhunting. For those of you that are 2 1/2 Men fans, it's about the equivalent of when Charlie got a medical marijuana prescription! (can skip to .53 second mark at the link)
That's a whole nuther can of worms there Marvin... Ed F