P. King, Alb - SARS COV2 doesn't exist
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
Treeline 05-Aug-21
DanaC 05-Aug-21
Old Bow 05-Aug-21
Treeline 05-Aug-21
Deertick 05-Aug-21
Treeline 05-Aug-21
HDE 05-Aug-21
'Ike' (Phone) 05-Aug-21
ahunter76 05-Aug-21
TGbow 05-Aug-21
Grey Ghost 05-Aug-21
Matte 05-Aug-21
Al Dente Laptop 05-Aug-21
Orion 05-Aug-21
HDE 05-Aug-21
drycreek 05-Aug-21
Huntskifishcook 05-Aug-21
[email protected] 05-Aug-21
Norseman 05-Aug-21
DanaC 05-Aug-21
Matt 05-Aug-21
Norseman 05-Aug-21
WV Mountaineer 05-Aug-21
DanaC 05-Aug-21
TGbow 05-Aug-21
MA-PAdeerslayer 05-Aug-21
cath8r 05-Aug-21
DanaC 05-Aug-21
Whitey 05-Aug-21
DanaC 05-Aug-21
cath8r 05-Aug-21
Whitey 05-Aug-21
Treeline 06-Aug-21
HDE 06-Aug-21
DanaC 06-Aug-21
Grey Ghost 06-Aug-21
Treeline 06-Aug-21
TEmbry 06-Aug-21
Copperhead 06-Aug-21
KsRancher 06-Aug-21
Huntskifishcook 06-Aug-21
DanaC 06-Aug-21
Old Bow 06-Aug-21
Heat 06-Aug-21
HDE 06-Aug-21
Old Bow 06-Aug-21
bigeasygator 06-Aug-21
Norseman 06-Aug-21
Treeline 06-Aug-21
Matt 06-Aug-21
Copperhead 06-Aug-21
Treeline 06-Aug-21
Orion 06-Aug-21
bigeasygator 06-Aug-21
bigeasygator 06-Aug-21
Matt 06-Aug-21
bigeasygator 06-Aug-21
Orion 06-Aug-21
Mike Ukrainetz 06-Aug-21
TGbow 06-Aug-21
Whitey 06-Aug-21
HDE 06-Aug-21
bigeasygator 06-Aug-21
DanaC 06-Aug-21
Treeline 06-Aug-21
bigeasygator 06-Aug-21
Matt 06-Aug-21
Mike in CT 06-Aug-21
WV Mountaineer 06-Aug-21
Matt 06-Aug-21
bigeasygator 06-Aug-21
DanaC 06-Aug-21
bigeasygator 06-Aug-21
WV Mountaineer 06-Aug-21
bigeasygator 06-Aug-21
Matt 06-Aug-21
WV Mountaineer 06-Aug-21
Mike Ukrainetz 06-Aug-21
bigeasygator 06-Aug-21
WV Mountaineer 06-Aug-21
Treeline 06-Aug-21
Treeline 06-Aug-21
bigeasygator 06-Aug-21
bigeasygator 06-Aug-21
Treeline 06-Aug-21
Treeline 06-Aug-21
Treeline 06-Aug-21
bigeasygator 06-Aug-21
Matt 06-Aug-21
Norseman 06-Aug-21
trophyhill 06-Aug-21
Mike in CT 07-Aug-21
Mike in CT 07-Aug-21
ki-ke 07-Aug-21
Old School 07-Aug-21
Kevin Dill 07-Aug-21
midwest 07-Aug-21
Mike Ukrainetz 07-Aug-21
Matt 07-Aug-21
From: Treeline
05-Aug-21

Treeline's Link
Perhaps this will start to shed some light on the subject...

From: DanaC
05-Aug-21
All those people who died or lost loved ones can rejoice because some court decided that the disease - for LEGAL conditions of proof - doesn't exist. I'm sure they are comforted.

You can take those tubes out now, you ain't sick!

From: Old Bow
05-Aug-21
The big Pharmaceutical companies won’t like that

From: Treeline
05-Aug-21
Interesting, reading this, that there is no conclusive proof that SARS-COV2 even exists. The extreme, worldwide governmental switch to Totalitarian-Marxist tactics and methodology and rules over all of this is deeply disturbing.

Even more so if there this virus can not be proven to exist…

The article states that Alberta has now lifted all restrictions and mandates. If that is so, can those of us who shall remain un-injected go hunting up there now?

From: Deertick
05-Aug-21
I can't prove elk exist ... I've looked! Yet, Wyoming charges me for a tag every year. Hmm.

From: Treeline
05-Aug-21
Ha! Maybe you should try that for a refund!

From: HDE
05-Aug-21
"All those people who died or lost loved ones can rejoice because some court decided that the disease - for LEGAL conditions of proof - doesn't exist. I'm sure they are comforted."

Go back and read again, you missed it...

05-Aug-21
Someone needs a ‘safe place’….

From: ahunter76
05-Aug-21
My wife & Daughter are Nurses. Yes, Covid is out there & many have died. Unfortunatly, most of those who contracted the disease "MAY" have had something else that helped it along to cause death.. NO one is checking for other things once they are said to have Covid.. Flu seems to be Non existent & we all know it kills every year... I comply with "business rules" but otherwise, I'm trying to live a normal life outdide my home. My wife & I are in that "old" vulnerable class as they say. I saw a news clip the other day on death stats & I will be killed by lightening or a Dog attack b/4 Covid.

From: TGbow
05-Aug-21
ahunter76...spot on. Of course the viirus is real. The problem is we have too many sheepel that won't think for themselves.

From: Grey Ghost
05-Aug-21
SARS-COV2 has been isolated many times in several countries. It was isolated in the US on Jan 20, 2020 from the first known infected patient.

As I understand this case, the accused asked for evidence of isolation outside of a lab, or PCR test. The health officials couldn't produce that evidence, I suspect because all isolation occurs in a lab, or some sort of a test.

I think it's a ridiculous twisting of facts to say this case proves SARS-COV2 doesn't exist. Perhaps Mike in CT can confirm.

Matt

From: Matte
05-Aug-21
I went from a very Healthy man to the worst I have ever felt back in January. Never even really get the flu yet, Covid dam near kicked my ass. No smell no taste for two weeks along with headaches and a horrific dry cough. Then a month of fuzzy brain and breathing treatments. I was not even hospitalized I cant imagine how tough it was for those who were.

05-Aug-21
Here is the issue that no one seems to be talking about, when all they say is "follow the science." The flu, SARS, MERS, COVID, etc... are ALL Corona type viruses. That coveted can of Lysol, has had "Kills Corona Virus" on it for a long time, yet only was discovered within the last 14 months or so. The flu was non-existent this year, why, see the above statement, all are Corona type viruses. People did die and did get really sick from it, but just as any flu, and there had been a flu shot for decades, people still get the flu and people still die from it, regardless if they got the flu shot or not. The flu and ALL Corona viruses always mutate, that is why the flu shot is based upon the previous year's 3 most common variants. Of course there will be Delta, Lambda, etc... Hell, we will go through the entire Greek Alphabet and then start with hieroglyphics at this rate! The testing is fallible, and has been proven so with many false negatives and false positives. One nostril is positive, the other side is negative. Then you have those tests results being doubled or tripled in some cases, and false positives are being reported as positives also. So if the test is erroneous, and the data collected is erroneous, how can be told to believe that the analysis is correct? If you want to really have your mind blown, you can check the CDC website for yourself to see the TRUE COVID death numbers. When this was first reported back in March, the story was buried after a few hours by the MSM, because it didn't fit the fear mongering narrative/agenda that was and still is being pushed. According to the CDC, 6% of all COVID related deaths were attributed strictly to COVID. The other 94% of people died had 2.6 or between 2 and 3 other serious/fatal underlying illnesses. These included COPD, heart ailments, lung ailments, diabetes, obesity, auto immune disorders, cancer, etc... IF you were in hospice with only days to live and were exposed to COVID, you died of COVID, not from the cancer. To me, this was a SCAMdemic from day one, all to tank the economy and bail out Big Pharma. If it was sooo deadly, why did nearly the exact same amount of people last year as they did in 2019, 2018, 2017, etc.... Something as epic as this should have eliminated 25% of the population. Wake up, Lenin is knocking on your door.

From: Orion
05-Aug-21
^^^Bingo some people on the have you had your covid shot thread need to read your post numerous times

From: HDE
05-Aug-21
"The problem is we have too many sheepel that won't think for themselves."

No, the problem we have is gov't telling us we have to believe their pet "experts" and no body else.

From: drycreek
05-Aug-21
Al Dente, you’re gonna hurt somebody’s feelings with that logic. Logic has no place in a covid discussion ! ;-)

05-Aug-21
Al Dente, I've been trying to get people to look at black and white numbers without the political spin for months. It's mind boggling that most people have no desire to look at real data points. There are piles of articles available via google scholar that allow a person to predict with a high degree accuracy who is at risk of serious covid reactions, yet they refuse. I think some people have found some sort of comfort in being told exactly what to do and what is true and isn't true.

05-Aug-21
CDC says they have isolated it. In fact they are growing it and if you get approved they will ship you some for studying.

From: Norseman
05-Aug-21
China has it isolated….well kinda.

From: DanaC
05-Aug-21
"I think it's a ridiculous twisting of facts to say this case proves SARS-COV2 doesn't exist."

'Denialism' has become a powerful force in discussions of Covid - and in the realm of US politics in general. (See for instance, 'Trump really won in 2020!')

From: Matt
05-Aug-21
This definitely sheds light on the COVID debate, but likely not in the way the OP intended. He probably also thinks the vaccine contains a microchip. Sheer and utter stupidity.

From: Norseman
05-Aug-21
Kinda like “We have to pass the bill before you can see what’s in it”, right?

05-Aug-21
I don’t think the Covid police captain understood the purpose of the link.

From: DanaC
05-Aug-21
Was it 'sarcasm'? Irony? Spoof? ;-)

From: TGbow
05-Aug-21
It amazes me how people are willing to give up their freedom to the nanny state for what they concieve as security. Covid is real but so is the constitutional rights of individuals...Marxist could care less about the constitution, only their agenda. Unfortunately people will follow along with rediculous laws..like gun control. Its like someone cutting off their penis to fight rape..dont even make sense

05-Aug-21
Al Dente I’ve been saying that right along! But everyone told me I was an idiot…

From: cath8r
05-Aug-21
I think the big issue is the flawed pcr test method where even the CDC said recently how the pcr tedt should be stopped until they can differentiate between covid and influenza. The world reacting to positives (false positives) and killing the economy and society over 90%+ false positives, is the elephant in the room. Covid is real! No dispute! It was built in a lab with multi country collaboration! If you are healthy, you have a 99+% chance of survival! Just like the flu! But when government use 'this unique opportunity' to reset through worlds economy's and suppress science and debate and force 'vaccines' (gene therapy) with no long term safety data and heavily restrict freedom..... that's where the problems lie. I honestly don't feel they are safe (jabs). Too much suppression of evidence. Every death where someone failed a pcr test, got counted as a covid death.... car crash victims, elderly cancer patients, gunshot victims etc etc. But... someone dying after receiving the jab..... obviously not the 'vaccine'. This is where we are at. God bless that fellow in Alberta! Good job!

From: DanaC
05-Aug-21
" It was built in a lab with multi country collaboration! "

As if China 'collaborates' with anyone...

From: Whitey
05-Aug-21
Far from stupid to to not believe the constantly shifting narratives . If your investment advisor dealt conflicting info at the level we have seen from the media on behalf of the govt. you would be considered a moron to continue to give them your money. Zero difference here. All I see is free Americans making their own decisions , grown ass men willing to live with the outcome . God bless them. Shameful to call them stupid.

From: DanaC
05-Aug-21
Whitey, what you call 'shifting narratives', some call 'evolving'. No, we don't have _all_ the facts and we may never. But as our knowledge grows we adjust our interpretations to take new information into account. This is not deceptive, it's how learning works. And even the highest level experts are still learning and trying to communicate their latest to the general public.

From: cath8r
05-Aug-21
@DanaC So.... it didn't get any funding or help from anyone else? Really?

From: Whitey
05-Aug-21
Dana you intentionally leave out the possibilities that the person is dishonest or incompetent or both among many other variables. You use the terms “our” and “we” as if you can personally verify the information. I am willing to bet that you neither possess the data or the background to accomplish that. So what you are really saying is people should trust it because you do. Very arrogant and typical. But it’s good to know you would invest with Bernie Madoff because he is learning and evolving.

From: Treeline
06-Aug-21
Communism is the virus. The lies about COVID are just how they spread it.

From: HDE
06-Aug-21
"'Denialism' has become a powerful force in discussions of Covid..."

Or just not believing the broken record that doesn't know if it's playing forward or backward.

Naturally, the hand picked pet "experts" the gov't uses are the only ones that can be right. (Insert eye roll here...)

From: DanaC
06-Aug-21
" Naturally, the hand picked pet "experts" the gov't uses are the only ones that can be right. (Insert eye roll here...) "

Would you rather believe the hand picked pet experts hired by FAUX News? (Insert ROFLMAO here...)

From: Grey Ghost
06-Aug-21
One of our most respected BS members, Mike in CT, has 30 years of experience in the infectious viruses field. Have any of you actually read his posts about Covid? I know he uses a lot of big words, but that's what a dictionary is for. I encourage you to search the other Covid thread for his posts.

Or, continue to believe some unknown blogger from a site called Our Greater Destiny. Your choice.

Matt

From: Treeline
06-Aug-21
Matt, look up the other articles about the case. I just picked one. There are many, just nothing on the MSM…

From: TEmbry
06-Aug-21
Is it possible for a guy to be reasonable and believe the disease is real and deadly yet still believe media and governments are over extending their powers infringing on our rights? Why does it have to be one or the other? Why is someone who is diabetic written off as a non important death in the eyes of so many? You see it every single day. He didn’t die of Covid he had UnDeRLYiNg conditions…. Well he wasn’t dying of diabetes that week, he caught a virus and died.

Travel mandates should be lifted, vaccines should be optional, economies should be fully open. That said, the virus is real and has destroyed hundreds of thousands or millions of families lives and the vaccine is a safe albeit not 100% effective means of protecting yourself.

All this talk of “sheeple” and I basically only see two types of sheeple in these discussions, just divided by a fence on different sides of a topic.

From: Copperhead
06-Aug-21
TEmbry, I agree with everything that you said except that "the vaccine is a safe albeit not 100% effective means of protecting yourself". My reasoning of it not being safe is that it has been documented to have caused hundreds of thousands of adverse reactions ranging from minor discomfort to death. Before deciding to get vaccinated everyone should be informed of this and check with their doctors to see if they want it or not. The FDA has not approved of the vaccines yet. I cannot go along with experimenting on humans without disclosing all the possible side effects and definitely would not expose children to the vaccines.

From: KsRancher
06-Aug-21
TEmbry. Couldn't have said it better myself

06-Aug-21
Completely agree with TE and Grey Ghost.

From: DanaC
06-Aug-21
"it has been documented to have caused hundreds of thousands of adverse reactions ranging from minor discomfort to death."

Just curious, do you get an annual 'flu shot'? How many people have 'adverse reactions' to those? I'd bet quite a few! Probably not many deaths. I've experienced 'minor discomfort' several times. And I suspect that the vast majority of reactions fall under that category. I still get it every year because full-blown flu sucks bigly. I had about the same with the first Covid shot, a day of feeling a bit 'blah.' Beats the tar out of hospitalization, being put on a ventilator etc. etc.

From: Old Bow
06-Aug-21
Their is no profit in Ivermectin

From: Heat
06-Aug-21
The fact that the mainstream media is completely ignoring the science tells you a lot! Funny how natural immunity was fully recognized and accepted, until the vaccine came out...now its like natural immunity doesn't even exist. You NEED the shot. Why would I want a vaccine from a disease I have immunity from already, that was milder than any flu I ever had? If you are 60 or with compromised immunity, knock your socks off. Work in a health care environment, I don't blame you. Another thing, when was the last time you heard any of these idiots on your squawk box or twitter telling you to eat vegetables, get sunshine, and exercise? Right, they don't because that is the best medicine you can get and if you did any of that you wouldn't need any pharmaceuticals unless you had a serious condition. This is ALL about $$$ and control.

From: HDE
06-Aug-21
"Would you rather believe the hand picked pet experts hired by FAUX News? (Insert ROFLMAO here...)"

Haven't watched Fox in a long time. I look at data available to me and make my own decisions. I don't sit around like a garden slug waiting for a paid for "scientist" that is willing to spew any crap a politician wants just to be in the news.

KLG of NM operates on the knee jerk up-and-down, side-to-side BS rhetoric from fauxci. Data doesn't lie, but politicians do...

From: Old Bow
06-Aug-21
HDE Exactly

From: bigeasygator
06-Aug-21
Patrick describes military presence in Australia going into communities, and people on the street having a needle stuck into them.

Thanks for that article, Treeline. I needed some comic relief today.

From: Norseman
06-Aug-21
You keep mentioning ventilators. Ventilators with sedation killed more marginal Covid patients than they helped. More unnecessary deaths due to knee jerk reactions, MSM hysteria and politics. There’s a lot of non-science knee jerk politics involved with the Vax, especially with giving it to the young and healthy.

From: Treeline
06-Aug-21
Copperhead is spot on.

From: Matt
06-Aug-21
"All I see is free Americans making their own decisions , grown ass men willing to live with the outcome . God bless them. Shameful to call them stupid."

Grown ass men perpetuating misinformation. The Russians would be proud.

Not only has the SARS-COV2 been isolated, so have variants and a wide variety of mutations. That people would suggest otherwise at this state of the pandemic - and based on such a cringe-worthy article no less - is almost unbelievable.

From: Copperhead
06-Aug-21
DanaC, my medical history is not any of your concern. When you go to the doctor you sign a paper stating who they can discuss your medical history with. If you choose to discuss you medical history with everyone that's your choice.

Now as far as the flu shot goes, I have known several people over the years that have gotten ill after taking the vaccine, none have died and I can't recall hearing of anyone dying from the flu vaccine but those vaccines have been tested and approved by the FDA and are voluntary. These Covid19 vaccines are still yet to be approved, which to me says they're still experimental. If you have chosen to get one, it was your choice. I do not believe in mandates, especially of an experimental drug.

From: Treeline
06-Aug-21
DanaC - the information is at your fingertips.

Look up the CDC’s VAERS web site. Look up vaccine deaths for the Covid “vaccines” versus all the others over the years. Pretty shocking, even by their own numbers.

Probably as vastly underreported for the “vaccines” as the “covid” deaths were over reported. Look up the Covid statistics while you are at it. What you will find is they report is the COMBINED statistics for COVID, PNEUMONIA and INFLUENZA! Those numbers were what were being pumped every day last year leading up to November.

From: Orion
06-Aug-21
Treeline he can't see the data through his mask

06-Aug-21
Remember a year ago, Covid was Trumps fault, and if Biden got elected he would end Covid?

Yeah me too

From: bigeasygator
06-Aug-21
Look up the CDC’s VAERS web site. Look up vaccine deaths for the Covid “vaccines” versus all the others over the years. Pretty shocking, even by their own numbers.

Not really shocking at all, when you consider a basic tenet of statistics is correlation does not equal causation. This, coupled with the fact that you have increased reporting requirements due to the EMUA and it's no wonder you have higher death counts post COVID vaccination. It does not mean that the vaccine caused these deaths and it certainly doesn't prove that the vaccine is deadly. Just like when the CF was around, it is woefully apparent that this forum is filled with people who either (1) don't look at data or (2) don't understand statistics or how to put data into context.

hat you will find is they report is the COMBINED statistics for COVID, PNEUMONIA and INFLUENZA

Just because the report has statistics for each category, separate tallies have been kept for each category as well as combined categories (ie, COVID, pneumonia, COVID+pneumonia, etc) and the deaths from COVID being reported do not include deaths from pneumonia or influenza alone, only the cases where COVID is present. It is not a sum total of COVID, pneumonia, and influenza deaths.

From: bigeasygator
06-Aug-21
Remember a year ago, Covid was Trumps fault, and if Biden got elected he would end Covid?

That falls into the "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" bucket. I wonder if Trump won if our vaccination rates would have been higher.

From: Matt
06-Aug-21
The link below is to a Reuters article debunking the claims made in the article linked by the OP. If one was to Google "SARS-COV2 isolation", one will find tens of articles of studies indicating the specific situations under which the virus has been isolated

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-rna-idUSL1N2LS27P

And another:

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/the-virus-that-causes-covid-19-exists-and-was-identified-and-isolated-multiple-times-by-independent-research-groups/

"Several scientific research groups independently identified and isolated SARS-CoV-2, the virus causing COVID-19, as demonstrated in numerous published studies."

And an article on the earliest date I could find after ~5 mins of research on when the virus was initially isolated and mapped:

https://time.com/5882918/zhang-yongzhen-interview-china-coronavirus-genome/

"Zhang and his team set to work, analyzing the samples using the latest high-throughput sequencing technology for RNA, the viral genetic building blocks, which function similar to how DNA works in humans. By 2 a.m. on Jan. 5 [2020], after toiling through two nights straight, they had mapped the first complete genome of the virus that has now sickened 23 million and killed 810,000 across the globe: SARS-CoV-2."

From: bigeasygator
06-Aug-21
Matt, you have to know by now you can't win these fights with logic, reasons, and facts :)

From: Orion
06-Aug-21
So the logic, reasons, and facts that show COVID really isn't that big of a deal or this super deadly virus isn't real bigeasy?

06-Aug-21
I do know that Alberta plans to be 100% open and do away with all testing of Covid for asymptomatic people, no mandatory isolation even if you have it. No masks, no vaccine passport etc. The chief medical officer of Alberta Deena Hinshaw says Covid is not going away and it needs to be dealt with like the regular flu. It’s fantastic good news but the media now says she is wrong and any support of what she is saying is being censored. And I thought we were all supposed to follow the science and listen to the scientists, like Hinshaw?! Or do we only follow the ones who support the mainstream narrative?

I posted this Alberta, Patrick King court case on my Instagram story and my story views went from a normal range of 1500 to 2500 down to 423. Never, ever had anything go that low, no lies in it, no misinformation. Just didn’t fit the narrative. If it’s all wrong then mainstream media should feature the court case and blow it apart for everyone to see but they bury it instead.

From: TGbow
06-Aug-21
Facts and statistics dont count in todays culture

From: Whitey
06-Aug-21

Whitey's Link
“Grown ass men perpetuating misinformation. The Russians would be proud.”

Don’t be sexist and forget that “people that can give birth”or “chest feeders”can be Russians too!

https://mobile.twitter.com/KyleMartinsen_/status/1416094954603044864

From: HDE
06-Aug-21
A couple people on this thread have let the premise of this thread fly right over their heads.

The defendant in the OP's link wanted the "expert" to provide evidence that wasn't isolated in a lab, the very bug making everyone sick outsideof a lab. When they couldn't, the case was dropped because it wasn't conclusive the same lab bug was making everyone sick.

It's easy to get the data you need in a controlled environment...

From: bigeasygator
06-Aug-21
A couple people on this thread have let the premise of this thread fly right over their heads.

There is ample evidence showing SARS COV2 exists and is making people sick. I have no idea what point the defendant was trying to prove by saying all of the work done isolating and characterizing the virus was done only in a lab.

That's the equivalent of saying you all don't have brains because the only way you can see it is by going to a lab and therefore we can't prove they exist outside of that lab. Hmmm, on second thought...

From: DanaC
06-Aug-21
" The defendant in the OP's link wanted the "expert" to provide evidence that wasn't isolated in a lab, the very bug making everyone sick outside of a lab. When they couldn't, the case was dropped because it wasn't conclusive the same lab bug was making everyone sick. "

And how did they expect to 'view' this 'evidence' without *laboratory* equipment?

From: Treeline
06-Aug-21
Perhaps Mike in CT can help with this:

“A viral isolate is a pure microbial or viral sample that must be obtained from an infected individual and not grown in a laboratory setting. In other words, a true viral isolate must be taken or extracted from a human or animal host and purified.

According to the sources I converse with, no scientists have done this procedure with regards to sars-cov-2. What they have done instead is gather a scant number of genomic sequences (“viral particles”) from a patient allegedly infected with COVID-19 and decided by a committee that these structures were the identified virus and proceeded to label them as viral isolates. This practice is the scientific community’s idea of viral isolation. I think it’s junk science!”

From: bigeasygator
06-Aug-21

bigeasygator's Link
Mike can weigh in, but there's plenty of information debunking this myth that the virus has not been "isolated" or "purified". From Reuters (all of the "here" links can be found at the linked article)...

"There are multiple examples of scientists isolating SARS-CoV-2 (here, here, here, here), the virus that causes COVID-19 disease, where they also sequenced the complete genome (here, here, here). Pictures of isolated SARS-CoV-2 particles have been released by the U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (here).

Meanwhile, the second argument, that coronaviruses have never been purified, shows a misunderstanding of how viruses work – and does not prove they do not exist. Siouxsie Wiles, an associate professor at the University of Auckland’s Department of Molecular Medicine and Pathology, has previously addressed similar claims, saying they reference outdated microbiological theory (here)."

From: Matt
06-Aug-21

Matt's Link
The attached link is to an article from the CDC that describes how they initially isolated the SARS-COV2 virus based on a sample from a person who had contracted the disease in Wuhan. That sounds strangely similar to the process your sources said had not been done:

"The etiologic agent of an outbreak of pneumonia in Wuhan, China, was identified as severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 in January 2020. A patient in the United States was given a diagnosis of infection with this virus by the state of Washington and the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on January 20, 2020. We isolated virus from nasopharyngeal and oropharyngeal specimens from this patient and characterized the viral sequence, replication properties, and cell culture tropism."

From: Mike in CT
06-Aug-21
"“A viral isolate is a pure microbial or viral sample that must be obtained from an infected individual and not grown in a laboratory setting. In other words, a true viral isolate must be taken or extracted from a human or animal host and purified."

The first part of the statement is accurate though I'd omit "microbial" as we're talking about "viral isolate." However, once you get to "and not grown in a laboratory setting" you're showing your (the author of this statement) ignorance. Samples are taken from the nasopharynx (you can also use bronchial washings if lower respiratory tract involvement is evident) and you can test for the presence of virus by a number of methods; EIA (enzyme immunoassay), fluoroscopy or molecular methods such as PCR.

All of the above should be confirmed by the gold standard which is isolation of the pure virus in cell culture. SARS-CoV-2 has been isolated in Vero cell lines (derived from the kidney of African Green monkeys) and as many have posted here there is no shortage of literature to confirm this.

Cell culture provides the means to further confirm by viewing CPE (cytopathic effect-changes in cellular structure caused by the virus; RSV (Respiratory Synctial virus) causes very specific and easily identified changes in cell culture for example), EIA, Immunoperoxidase stain and molecular assays.

OK, but as someone mentioned in an earlier post why all the hullabaloo about vaccination for a disease with a mortality rate of <6% (in the US it's actually around 2% now). Well, as someone once told me long ago statistics are a lot like bikinis; they show a lot but they don't show everything. Looking just at a raw number is misleading; look at the mortality rate broken down by age and you'll (hopefully) get a clearer understanding of why we should be vaccinating.

Additionally, we have much younger people who have underlying co-morbidities and/or are immuncompromised; removing potential viral carriers substantially lowers their risk of disease. We may not all agree with the concept of public health but there are clearly defined moments in which it is best to act in the interest of public health; this is one of them.

One last parting thought; I worked with a large hospital system in the Northeast last year on a COVID project; they were alarmed at how many COVID positive patients (true positives) were going into renal failure and requiring dialysis. Using the protocols we developed for earlier detection they reduced the number of patients requiring dialysis by 86%. I'm starting another project with one of the largest health systems in NY and they're up against similar grim numbers; owing to the hyper-politicization of this pandemic I can certainly understand healthy skepticism; when anyone questions whether this disease is real or not I can only shake my head. I've seen and continue to see just how real it is.

06-Aug-21
Did any of you get the whole reason for the thread? No one is doubting the virus is real. The link was supposed to show how the Canadian government is enforcing laws, stripping freedoms, causing huge economic hardships, and basically holding its citizens hostage without having legal means to do so. Not about whether the virus exists

From: Matt
06-Aug-21
The OP's second post started with "Interesting, reading this, that there is no conclusive proof that SARS-COV2 even exists." Sounds very much like doubt that the virus is real.

From: bigeasygator
06-Aug-21
Great post, Mike.

From: DanaC
06-Aug-21
The OP sounds to me like some ignorant judge got rolled.

From: bigeasygator
06-Aug-21
Well, as someone once told me long ago statistics are a lot like bikinis; they show a lot but they don't show everything.

Also meant to say that I'm absolutely hanging onto this one haha what a gem and so true.

06-Aug-21
Matt, I know the OP pretty well. I also do well at reading comprehension most times. If I missed the intent, I’d be surprised.

From: bigeasygator
06-Aug-21
Matt, I know the OP pretty well. I also do well at reading comprehension most times. If I missed the intent, I’d be surprised.

I still don't understand the intent. The particulars of the case seem to hinge on some legal loophole that has nothing to do with the actual science. There is plenty of conclusive scientific proof that SARS-COV2 exists. What was the intent then by posting this and following it up with statements like "there is no conclusive proof that SARS-COV2 even exists?"

From: Matt
06-Aug-21
"Matt, I know the OP pretty well. I also do well at reading comprehension most times. If I missed the intent, I’d be surprised."

I would be surprised if the OP's intent was anything other than to communicate the assertion in the thread title ("P. King, Alb - SARS COV2 doesn't exist"), especially given his first demonstrative comment ties directly to it ("Interesting, reading this, that there is no conclusive proof that SARS-COV2 even exists.").

06-Aug-21
BEG, I think you do understand.

Matt, I’m sure you are right

06-Aug-21
Mike in CT. Can you explain to me how you come up with a mortality rate of 2%? I know we can count 2 dead bodies but what is the 100 people that it is compared to, all people who were infected of all ages, asymptomatic or not? Hospitalized people? Do serious comorbitities count? How about people under 80 yrs old, what’s the mortality rate on them and how is it arrived at? Curious?

From: bigeasygator
06-Aug-21
The mortality rate is COVID deaths over COVID positive cases. In the US, we’ve had roughly 600,000 deaths out of roughly 32 million cases I believe…hence, 2% mortality rate. These numbers are tracked across the globe. Some countries, like Mexico, are currently showing a mortality rate closer to 8%. But it’s important to understand data collection limitations and demographics as well when looking at the numbers.

06-Aug-21
In the United States, politicians and money got involved early on. States openly added unconfirmed deaths. State heads of health have admitted on msm channels, their states death count is inflated. Yet, we use the 2% because that’s all we have.

The real death toll isn’t known. But, what is apparent to anyone with a brain cell is the death toll is high. That’s is undeniable and easy for anyone to confirm. Yet, once again, we use the inflated count because that’s all we have. It should make anyone concerned with reality, to keep that in mind.

From: Treeline
06-Aug-21
There were a large number of people counted who died WITH COVID rather than FROM COVID. There were many reports in the news of people dying from gunshot wounds, alcohol poisoning, and other means just here in Colorado that were counted as Covid.

Positive for Covid based on a flawed test procedure. The CDC has now admitted this.

Again, the CDC counts (that were reported by every MSM outlet up until January) included anyone that died with Covid, influenza or pneumonia in the totals.

From: Treeline
06-Aug-21
Why have Governments stripped so many of their rights and livelihoods?

Why on earth would anyone be so adamant about anything to do with other people’s personal health choices?

Particularly for something that is less fatal than the annual flu?

From: bigeasygator
06-Aug-21
Particularly for something that is less fatal than the annual flu?

It’s statements like this that I find incredibly baffling after a year and a half of dealing with this disease.

COVID killed over 300,000 people in 2020. The flu typically kills a tenth of that. Keep in mind we have never shut down the country to stop the spread of the flu. If we had treated COVID like the flu, I can’t imagine how many more people would have died.

The mortality rate of COVID in the USA is somewhere around 2%. The flu is something like .1% at most.

COVID has an R0 of something like 3. I’ve actually heard with the Delta variant it’s closer to 8. The flu is something like 1.5.

In summary, COVID is twice as contagious and 20 times as deadly for those that get it when compared to the flu.

So please, by what metric is the COVID “less fatal than the flu??”

From: bigeasygator
06-Aug-21
There were many reports in the news of people dying from gunshot wounds, alcohol poisoning, and other means just here in Colorado that were counted as Covid.

These have been debunked and put into appropriate context. Stop treating this like the norm.

Again, the CDC counts (that were reported by every MSM outlet up until January) included anyone that died with Covid, influenza or pneumonia in the totals.

This is straight up false.

From: Treeline
06-Aug-21
You are not following very well…

Covid killed all those people?

Or they died with Covid (based on faulty tests - and oh, don’t forget the large payments to the hospitals for any Covid deaths)?

So these shots:

1. Do not stop infections 2. Do not stop transmission 3. Do not stop hospitalization

But may:

1. Decrease your risk of being hospitalized. 2. Cause acute health issues including death, paralysis, nervous disorders, blood clots, heart issues 3. May cause chronic issues but it will be a year or two before we figure out what else those are…

And, the government (and MSM, fellow citizens, etc) wants globally mandated injections of substances that have not even been approved?

They are imposing medical segregation, limiting free travel (unless you come into this country illegally), and allowing companies to mandate injecting all employees or risk being let go?

How can anyone not be concerned about how whacked out this is?

My grandma always told me, no one wants to go to Hell alone…

From: Treeline
06-Aug-21
BEG - absolutely not debunked! I personally know several people who had a family member die that was called out as COVID!

And no. It is straight up the truth. I actually checked the CDC numbers being reported by the MSM. They were always the combined numbers.

From: Treeline
06-Aug-21
Grandma also warned me about arguing with a rock.

Just trying to get logical, common sense information out.

And I hate seeing how deep a country founded on personal freedom, limited government, and the recognition God Given Rights has fallen into a Marxist-Totalitarianism Hell.

From: bigeasygator
06-Aug-21
Once again with the “I know people who know people” argument.

And sorry, if you checked the CDC numbers it’s only proof that you don’t understand the data you were looking at. Covid, pneumonia, and influenza cases are part of the same report, but the numbers are not combined and treated as “all COVID.”

From: Matt
06-Aug-21
"Particularly for something that is less fatal than the annual flu?"

Do you have no consideration at all for your credibility? Speaking of arguing with a rock....

From: Norseman
06-Aug-21

06-Aug-21
Here’s the questions I’m still waiting to hear answered.

If masks work then why have so many caught it? If the vax works, why do you need a mask? If you’ve had it and have anti bodies, why do you need the vax or a mask? Why aren’t the vax’s FDA approved? Why should one take a drug that isn’t FDA approved? And last but not least, why should anyone trust bureaucrats, politicians and tyrants who silence anyone who question them? Too many questions and no answers. Only more questions......

From: Mike in CT
07-Aug-21
"1. Do not stop infections 2. Do not stop transmission 3. Do not stop hospitalization."

OK, I'll try and keep this simple; on point #1 there is no vaccine nor is there any natural immunity that prevents "infection." Infection is the action of a microbe (virus, bacteria, fungus, etc) gaining entry into the human body.

Infection progresses to symptom(s) and may progress to disease based on a number of factors, the most common being 1)the immune status of the person and 2)any underlying conditions/co-morbidities of the infected person.

On point #2 vaccines that promote an effective immune response rapidly decrease the viral load of the infected person; viral load is a key component of the passage of pathogens-less pathogen equals lower transmission rate. Unvaccinated (and non-immune by natural means) persons act as efficient transmission vectors because their viral load remains high until (if) they are able to clear the infection by mounting an effective immune response.

Point #3 is tragic; not in its being real but rather that given the overwhelming evidence to the contrary there is anyone in today's information age that would actually make that claim.

From: Mike in CT
07-Aug-21
"If masks work then why have so many caught it? If the vax works, why do you need a mask?"

Viruses that are spread via airborne transmission would only be prevented by a properly fit-tested N95 respirator mask. Viruses that are transmitted by droplet transmission (like SARS-CoV-2) can be minimized by surgical masks (cloth masks help but aren't as effective). The ineffectiveness of masks owes more to the reality that it caused many people to constantly touch their faces (adjusting the mask for comfort/coverage) and provided access for virus present in nasal secretions to get on peoples hands. People tend to touch common surfaces and that is a great means of spreading infection.

The vaccine works but it doesn't prevent the virus from gaining entry; what it does do is allow the body to clear the virus and relatively quickly. While your body is clearing the virus though you still have sufficient virus to infect immunodeficient people; this includes those with autoimmune diseases (e.g. lupus), those on anti-rejection drugs (transplant recipients) and those on an anti-cancer regimen. As the majority of these people are not easily identified it is a preventative measure and makes sense in certain settings, most notably doctors offices and hospitals.

"If you’ve had it and have anti bodies, why do you need the vax or a mask?"

For the mask, see above, with regard to getting vaccinated I've responded to this on multiple threads that I don't see a need for it and it may actually be counterproductive.

"Why aren’t the vax’s FDA approved? Why should one take a drug that isn’t FDA approved?"

The vaccines have been granted Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) by the FDA; an EUA is subject to the same safety & efficacy standards as a 510k (Full FDA approval). The EUA submission for the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine showed data that met the criteria and with flying colors. The sample population was both robust in numbers and in terms of demographic coverage. I fully expect this vaccine to receive 510k clearance by the end of 2021 or early 2022.

As to why anyone would take this vaccine I'd answer based on the data submitted for the EUA; it is overwhelmingly positive and the results after almost a year have been excellent.

"And last but not least, why should anyone trust bureaucrats, politicians and tyrants who silence anyone who question them?"

They shouldn't provided they are pushing back with valid facts and not simply regurgitating the conspiracy du jour. I personally have pushed back on those clamoring for people who have recovered from the disease (a clear demonstration of an effective immune response) to get vaccinated. As with almost anything possession of all the facts is the first prerequisite for having an informed discussion/debate and that goes for all parties involved.

I hope this has been helpful.

From: ki-ke
07-Aug-21
From TEmbry:

"Is it possible for a guy to be reasonable and believe the disease is real and deadly yet still believe media and governments are over extending their powers infringing on our rights? Why does it have to be one or the other? Why is someone who is diabetic written off as a non important death in the eyes of so many? You see it every single day. He didn’t die of Covid he had UnDeRLYiNg conditions…. Well he wasn’t dying of diabetes that week, he caught a virus and died. Travel mandates should be lifted, vaccines should be optional, economies should be fully open. That said, the virus is real and has destroyed hundreds of thousands or millions of families lives and the vaccine is a safe albeit not 100% effective means of protecting yourself."

This describes where many folks are, myself included, but because the dividing line is so well defined, not taking a side means you are either a extremist/conspiracy theorist, ready to start a civil war, or an obedient, get in line, marxist sheep, not worthy of calling yourself an American. In my opinion, the division, at all current levels, is a much greater danger to our American freedoms than any stinkin' virus. The distraction of this virus has been powerfully abused. (I believe the virus is real, so keep your $hitslingin' away fro me) We need to figure out how to restore sensible, non partisan government and common sense. I believe we have alot of pain to go through before that happens, if it ever does.....

From: Old School
07-Aug-21
I agree ki-ke. And finding credible sources that aren’t politically partisan is quite difficult. Appreciate Mike’s perspective and expertise in this area to sort through the political science and get to the actual science.

From: Kevin Dill
07-Aug-21
Well said Steve! It's an extremist tug-o-war with a huge majority of Americans positioned somewhere in the middle....and politics underlying all of it. Not the kind of scenario which leads to a unified America solving one of its biggest challenges ever. Sorry to use an oxymoron in my last sentence.

From: midwest
07-Aug-21
+1 ki-ke and TEmbry.

...and why should anyone who doesn't trust anything the fed does care whether something is FDA approved or not? lol

07-Aug-21
GREAT POST KI-KE!

Division, Chaos and Confusion are our greatest threat to Western Democracies right now. Massive debt loads don’t help either.

From: Matt
07-Aug-21
"In my opinion, the division, at all current levels, is a much greater danger to our American freedoms than any stinkin' virus."

I wholeheartedly agree. IMO the first step is for people to learn that "sheeple" don't exist solely on the other side of the political spectrum (this thread being a prime example) and seek common ground with those of differing view points rather than further division.

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