Deer lease drama
General Topic
What are yells opinions on this scenario. 13 lease spots on about 5k acres in Texas with the goal of growing some special deer. Lease rules states trophy deer have to be 5.5 or older. On the lease there have been a few 160” deer killed, ranch has specific rules and protein is fed during the off season. $500 each member feed fee. I have been watching and passing a 10pt for a few years, guesses him mid 140’s and decided to give him another year thinking the deer is 4.5. I have trail camera pics and share them with the group and put the deer on the no shoot list. No one argues that the deer is mature and needs to be green lighted. I filmed the deer at 14 yards with bow in hand and shared the pics and video with the lease group again stating that the deer needs to be passed for one more year and then he’s green lighted for everyone.
The next weekend another member goes into that pasture (not his pasture) as a guest of a member who does have a stand in the pasture. He sees the deer in the evening. He knows what deer it is and goes back into camp telling everyone that he saw him. He communicates with the member who has the stand in that pasture and is told by that member to go shoot the deer. He goes back into that pasture the next morning to hunt that specific deer and rifle kills it. This same hunter has killed off limit’s deer the two prior years in a row. Both of these lease members have already announced they will not be returning next year. The pic is posted on a group thread with all members and several lease members express their displeasure. Lease boss quickly jumps on the text thread and tells everyone to not call anyone out.
Lease member who gave the go ahead to shoot the deer gets on text thread and says. No one calls dibs on a deer and to trust him, if he sees something, he wants to shoot he’s going to, he’s paid his dues. Ironic that he stated that he’s paid his dues because he is the only member of the lease that did not pay the $500 protein fee.
I bring up that this is a character issue and was done in spite, was intentional and not an accident. I asked the lease boss to kick both members off immediately. I am afraid that more spite hunting will be done damaging the herd in the future, in anticipation of continuing to be a member of the lease.
Lease boss replies that both members will not be back next year and to not take it personal. Lease boss allows them to continue to hunt even though no rules are followed and one of them blatantly said he will shoot what he wants to and has not paid his protein fee.
Lease boss also throws out that if I’m not happy that the gate swings both ways and that there is a line of people ready to take my place.
I am getting off the lease obviously, just wanted to get other opinions on this situation. It sucks because other than these two guys it’s a super place! I’ll either be looking for a trophy lease or taking an annual trip to the mid-west.
Deer in the selfie is the deer that was killed.
Are you mad because some guest shot a deer you were hoping to shoot next year or mad because of the rule-bending or both?
IMO the lease boss took care of it...." Lease boss replies that both members will not be back next year and to not take it personal."
My two pennies....if it's a great place and there are other deer out there, move on.
The lease boss didn't do anything. They stated this was their last year before this all went down. They were getting off on their own will.
Well the two guys who don't pay their fees and shoot deer that all have said don't shoot are assholes. The lease boss? Does he own the property or did he pull the lease and is letting others join in? Is he voted in? Sounds like he's a buddy with the outlaw memebers and that would qualify him as an asshole too. Why leave? Stay and fight it, talk with the other memebers and change things. Vote out the boss if possible or show the boss what happens if he lets some slid in their responsibilities. Get together will all the memebers and stop paying your 500 and continue to hunt, when the boss questions it then just remind him that he let others slide and still hunt. Go out and shoot a young deer, do what the others are doing and see what happens. If you plan on leaving then burn it down, at least you might fix it for future members.
Well the two guys who don't pay their fees and shoot deer that all have said don't shoot are assholes. The lease boss? Does he own the property or did he pull the lease and is letting others join in? Is he voted in? Sounds like he's a buddy with the outlaw memebers and that would qualify him as an asshole too. Why leave? Stay and fight it, talk with the other memebers and change things. Vote out the boss if possible or show the boss what happens if he lets some slid in their responsibilities. Get together will all the memebers and stop paying your 500 and continue to hunt, when the boss questions it then just remind him that he let others slide and still hunt. Go out and shoot a young deer, do what the others are doing and see what happens. If you plan on leaving then burn it down, at least you might fix it for future members.
Trust me LBshooter, I'd like to go out in flames like that but it's not in my character. The lease boss is the one who found the lease, not the property owner. Other than that, the property owner is a super stand up dude and I wouldn't do wrong on his land.
"The next weekend another member goes into that pasture (not his pasture) as a guest of a member who does have a stand in the pasture."
This would throw everything off for me. How do you all treat a "guest." Does everyone get 1 buck and if their guest gets one, the member is done for the year? I could see that ruining everything with a liberal guest policy.
We have a family farm and only my father and I hunt deer on it. We have plenty of friends who hunt and I can't tell you how many say, "Man, I'd love to go deer hunting with you!" My response is that it's my father and I only are allowed to hunt the farm.
He's a member of the lease but hunt's another pasture. He has the right to be there and to shoot a trophy deer. Guests wasn't the issue.
Hunting is supposed to be fun. My tolerance for drama is pretty low and especially low when it comes to the few precious days I get to go hunting.
I wouldn't find being part of this type of thing fun regardless of who is right or wrong. I avoid a bunch of private land opportunities due to the potential for drama.
You're on point Glunt, it's great when everyone is on the same page but get's frustrating when some aren't. When you have 13 personalities together there's always going to be some issues.
This type of place would definitely not be for me. But even if the rules are misguided, everyone agreed to them upfront and should follow them. Anyone who doesn't follow them should be asked to leave the group and hunt elsewhere.
And this is what hunting has devolved in to...... SMFH.
Seems like this sums up everything that is wrong with hunting these days. Money, greed, horn fever.
Sure it sucks but it is a damn deer. Just move on.
Horn porn. First world problems. And, exactly the reason I refuse to be a member of another lease. Tried it three times and it went the same way all three times.
Members killing deer that don’t meet the requirements. Members bringing guests on days that were off limits. Members not paying their part for food plots. Etc….
It takes the joy out it. Give me public land where I can walk away from the bs. Everyone else can have the leases.
I see what you are saying Dakota, it is just a deer. If he shot the deer on a hunt when he first saw it, absolutely. If it were a mistake I would have even celebrated with him. It's more than a deer, it's the principal. He went in knowing he was wrong when he woke up that morning to go hunt. That's what does it for me.
X2 Glunt. I try to keep the drama and bosses at work not for hunting.
So if the deer turns out to 5.5 yo or older, is that okay or not? If a majority on the lease say to leave it another year and someone else feels it meets the rules how does that work (especially if that person is correct)? Who confirms the age when a deer is on the ground? I guess a place like this might have an inventory of bucks year after year, but you never know when a new mature buck shows up on camera.
tobywon, that's a good point and at the end of the day we don't know the deer's age. I thought he was 4.5 and passed him as such because I don't want to make a mistake. There were plenty of trail camera pics and video's shared. If someone thought he was old enough to shoot I would assume they would have brought it up in our text thread where we share pictures.
I don't think Flames is wrong here (other than the fact that he asked for opinions and is surprised some of them aren't very good), or even that he is suggesting that shooting of the deer was the real problem. What he is asking for opinions on, is what would people think/do/feel if they were part of a similar situation where rules were not being applied pursuant to what you signed up for and spent good money on.
To that, I would say that I agree that the guys that are leaving are being JA's, and the lease boss is a chicken$@#%. If you haven't followed the rules, or bigger yet, haven't contributed to a cost that is required, you should be done. Not following the well described rules is a problem, and Flames isn't wrong to be upset that they aren't being enforced.
With that said, I think Flames needs to personally evaluate what he would be leaving by backing out. The grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence, and problems are abound with any land ownership group, lease group, or outfitted hunt. If you have a good spot; know these guys are leaving; and believe the remainder of the bunch is like minded, I think you'd be making a mistake to leave at this point.
You hit the nail on the head Northwoods. It's rules for thee but not for me. And you make a very good point of sticking with it and continuing to grow big deer with the guys that are sill there.
I’ve never leased any property for any kind of hunting. The odds of a group of people, strangers, friends, or family getting along for any length of time, rules or not, is slim to none. Anytime money enters into the equation, there’s going to be problems. Then throw in “Trophy” hunting and the odds get even slimmer. I will just stay a meat hunter, hunt where I can, and enjoy it.
Flames you have a right to be upset with that scenario.
I've hunted deer my whole life and I am not sure I can tell the difference between a 4.5 and 5.5 year old deer? For 1/2 my life I hunted in a state that a deer never gets past 2.5 years old.
This thread makes me even more appreciative that I don't live in TX and have to hunt this way. Lease, members, feed, rules, etc......no thank you.
Good luck on your lease.
This is all foreign to me which is my good fortune. What the hell is a lease boss. Is that like a land owner in a real hunting situation or something different ?
Bou’bound X2. Completely foreign to me. I think I’d quit hunting if I had to do it that way.
Life is too short to deal with that......................... I'd be looking for another lease ASAP
A lease boss is akin to a pod boss. He has all the juice.
Flames I wouldn't leave,sounds like they are.Maybe don't tell anyone what you see next year
Those saying just move on evidently don’t know how hard it is to find a good lease. I know that lease hunting is not everyone’s cup of tea, but for guys living in urban areas and trying to get their kids into the outdoors as well as make a living it is very attractive. That said, when I had a lease in Central Texas it was MY lease. I paid for the whole thing and I let the ones I wanted to hunt on it. It didn’t start out that way, originally it was paid for by our company, my partner and me. Drama is what caused me to take it over.
Once again I agree with LB. I see these stories often on Texas BowHunter. The conclusion I come to is that deer hunting will makes assholes out of people (actually it just shows your true character).
This is what the Texas hunting attitude has come too, really sad. Commercialization and scoring competition would take all the fun out of it for me, sadly its now being imported into my home state.
Lease boss is the problem. Period. Any member not paying in full before the season starts should never have a hunting opportunity for any deer. Accidental mistakes or intentional mistakes are hard to predict in a hunter but a deadbeat who doesn't pay before the season is obvious to all and should be "culled" quickly before the problems are compounded like this case.
If what you say is true Flames, then i totally agree with you. If pictures are shared with the group everyone should almost be forced to place a checkmark or sign off in a shoot/don't shoot column assuming the characteristics of a shooter/not shooter are agreed upon. Therefore everyone has agreed in writing. A couple violations of what you had in writing and you're gone.
New deer, quick situations heck anything happens. But known deer that everyone has agreed not to shoot should not be shot.
That being said, the whole situation does not seem fun at all. I hunt for fun. Every year I remind myself what I define as fun and keep at it. These definitions also seem to change over time.
APauls, I agree man. I would feel totally different if it were in the heat of the moment. If it were rut and the deer poped out etc. It's the fact that the deer was passed, and they talked about it, made a decision to kill it, and went and did it.
They didn't claim it was a mistake, which I'm glad they were truthful about. It's just like "Hey F YOU, and everyone else on this place, here's what we did".
My buddy calls it the Buck Wars! Happens all the time everywhere! If you own the land then you would be fighting your neighbors, trespassers etc…. Social media has intensified it
Maybe I should make a new reality hunting TV show about it :)
Is there some way to call a meeting of members? If it is a good lease that you enjoy hunting don't let a couple of aholes ruin it for you. I agree with you. If there are rules that have been agreed upon then they should be followed by everyone!
Wildwilderness, I do hunt land that I own, much smaller piece. I manage it about the same honestly. I loose deer to the neighbors every year, nothing can be done about that. They didn't sign up for a trophy lease with rules to follow, or in this case not follow. LOL
What is the point of establishing a set of rules if when someone intentionally disregards them, nothing is done about it? The "lease boss" (which is a title that shouldn't exist. But if you named this individual, he needs to do his job), needs to enforce the rules if that's what everyone agreed to. If he says he'll enforce them moving forward, then i'd stick around and keep hunting. If he can't find his backbone, then i'm out. I'd guess when you were passing around the photos of the deer asking everyone if they would like to give the deer another year, these guys mumbled something under their breathe, put their hands in their pockets and walked away, and later agreed with one another that you don't have the authority to tell them what deer they can and cannot shoot. Unfortunately, I've dealt with these problems quite a few times. The answer is to weed out these guys who can't seem to get on the same page as everyone else. Split their cost among everyone else, or find 2 new guys.
Where is the lease located and what kind of deer population? One deer per how many Acres?
For most areas of Texas with decent deer numbers, 13 bucks off 5k acres is pretty restrictive to start with. That’s one buck per 384 acres. Even with a few OOOPPs there should still be plenty of prospective trophy’s next year.
I understand your frustration on a deer you were already “invested” in, but you may have a tough time beating your current situation.
Need a 'security deposit' - violate the rules, lose your money. Say $1000, that will keep most people in line.
Should be a rule that every book kills has to be aged
I would be upset at the situation. Not paying your dues and not following the guidelines is BS. They know they aren’t coming back and don’t seem to care who they make mad in the process. I would get everyone together and make sure going forward it’s going to be followed. Should have in the lease agreement that you aren’t allowed to hunt until all dues are paid.
Man, that all sounds terrible. I'll stick with my crowded Northeast Public land. Though I know you guys have it tough in Texas from a land perspective. As ol' Teddy Cruz said, "Texas has 2% public land and that's 2% too much." So, it likely won't be getting easier to find huntable land, I'm sure. Good luck out there.
Offer more money and become the Boss.
I got tired of the same old shit in 2016. Buy your own land and tell the whole world to kiss your ass! Best thing I ever did! I got 840 acres of my own and lease 500 acres next to me. It's big enough I can work on part of it, trap part of it and deer hunt part of it all on the same day.
Never been in hunt club - lease never will & stories like this just confirms that. I'm thankful to have the few private land places that I do. It would be nice to have a tract large enough to manage the deer herd as I saw fit but I'm content with what I have. Never known a single person in a club - lease situation that doesn't complain about the BS. I just want to go to the woods & relax fill my freezer with does & kill a special buck every now & then.
I was in a military hunt club while stationed in Wash DC. It was the Brandywine Bowhunters or B2. At the time, I think it was like $45 or $50 a year. It was a pretty good deal as the members made most of the rules and there were some dandy bucks there. We did work details, bbq's and an end of the year feast. It was well organized. Every now and then someone would break a rule and get a whack. Towards the end of my time there....there was a waiting list to get in.
I'd discuss it with them in person and let them decide their fate with their mouth.
I think one of the biggest misconceptions in all of whitetail hunting is the age of the deer. If you aren't sending the teeth in to a lab on EVERY deer that is shot on the property you can't be certain of the age. Send the teeth in and see if he made a mistake. Many of the deer we shoot are older than we think they are. Too many people think all deer will make 150. They won't. Get it aged and end the controversy. It will prove who is right.
Painful to read all of those rules and restrictions. Glad I don't have to deal with any of that.
I think one of the biggest misconceptions in all of whitetail hunting is the age of the deer. If you aren't sending the teeth in to a lab on EVERY deer that is shot on the property you can't be certain of the age. Send the teeth in and see if he made a mistake. Many of the deer we shoot are older than we think they are. Too many people think all deer will make 150. They won't. Get it aged and end the controversy. It will prove who is right.
Ya this makes me glad to be a lowly Midwest public land hunter. It’s a chess match avoiding other hunters, especially nonresident. But I have no tolerance for drama. I don’t use trail cams and don’t leave stands out. Just pack my compact LW Assault climber in & out daily. Do anything I can do to eliminate contact with others. Drama takes the enjoyment out.
"Seems like this sums up everything that is wrong with hunting these days. Money, greed, horn fever."
Worth repeating ^^^. It sickens me.
Matt
I've been in a few hunting clubs in Alabama before, and its always some kind of hassle dealing with the other members. Politics, drama. It takes all the fun out of hunting having to deal with people. The last thing I want to do when I go hunting is interact with people. I think Zim has it right.
I too am a Illinois public land Hunter and hunt with a group of regulars and always have a good time. We share info and help with drag outs and it all works fine and we all look forward to hunting. I get invited to a farm in the triangle yearly and I politely decline due to the insane amount of rules , not worth it.
