Can’t Believe the BS going on…
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
WYOelker 10-Jan-22
Dmac 10-Jan-22
[email protected] 10-Jan-22
Hackbow 10-Jan-22
Jaquomo 10-Jan-22
[email protected] 10-Jan-22
Rocky D 11-Jan-22
scentman 11-Jan-22
Missouribreaks 11-Jan-22
Al Dente Laptop 11-Jan-22
scentman 11-Jan-22
Treeline 11-Jan-22
Lawdog 11-Jan-22
Rut Nut 11-Jan-22
Missouribreaks 11-Jan-22
Dmac 11-Jan-22
12yards 11-Jan-22
Brotsky 11-Jan-22
stringgunner 11-Jan-22
DS 11-Jan-22
bigeasygator 11-Jan-22
Dale06 11-Jan-22
Rut Nut 11-Jan-22
HDE 11-Jan-22
Chief 11-Jan-22
bigeasygator 11-Jan-22
trublucolo 11-Jan-22
Jaquomo 11-Jan-22
Rut Nut 11-Jan-22
bigeasygator 11-Jan-22
Rut Nut 11-Jan-22
elkmtngear 11-Jan-22
scentman 11-Jan-22
bigeasygator 11-Jan-22
bigeasygator 11-Jan-22
ahunter76 11-Jan-22
bigeasygator 11-Jan-22
Grey Ghost 11-Jan-22
scentman 11-Jan-22
bigeasygator 11-Jan-22
2Wild Bill 11-Jan-22
Matt 11-Jan-22
Grey Ghost 11-Jan-22
elkmtngear 11-Jan-22
azelkhntr 11-Jan-22
Matt 11-Jan-22
Grey Ghost 11-Jan-22
bigeasygator 11-Jan-22
bigeasygator 11-Jan-22
Panhandle Bob 11-Jan-22
scentman 11-Jan-22
Grey Ghost 11-Jan-22
azelkhntr 11-Jan-22
azelkhntr 11-Jan-22
Matt 11-Jan-22
elkmtngear 11-Jan-22
Grey Ghost 11-Jan-22
Saphead 11-Jan-22
Jaquomo 11-Jan-22
bigeasygator 11-Jan-22
elkmtngear 11-Jan-22
Shaft2Long 11-Jan-22
Matt 11-Jan-22
azelkhntr 11-Jan-22
elkmtngear 11-Jan-22
bigeasygator 11-Jan-22
spike78 11-Jan-22
Matt 11-Jan-22
elkmtngear 11-Jan-22
Grey Ghost 11-Jan-22
spike78 11-Jan-22
Rut Nut 11-Jan-22
Matt 11-Jan-22
elkmtngear 11-Jan-22
Matt 11-Jan-22
spike78 11-Jan-22
Orion 11-Jan-22
HDE 11-Jan-22
Jaquomo 11-Jan-22
stealthycat 11-Jan-22
Matt 11-Jan-22
Orion 11-Jan-22
Orion 11-Jan-22
HDE 11-Jan-22
Orion 11-Jan-22
Orion 11-Jan-22
Matt 11-Jan-22
Tilzbow 12-Jan-22
elkmtngear 12-Jan-22
bigeasygator 12-Jan-22
HDE 12-Jan-22
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txhunter58 12-Jan-22
Matt 12-Jan-22
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HDE 12-Jan-22
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LINK 12-Jan-22
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azelkhntr 12-Jan-22
Matt 12-Jan-22
azelkhntr 12-Jan-22
Grey Ghost 12-Jan-22
spike78 13-Jan-22
stealthycat 13-Jan-22
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HDE 13-Jan-22
Rut Nut 13-Jan-22
bigeasygator 13-Jan-22
Matt 13-Jan-22
spike78 13-Jan-22
bigeasygator 13-Jan-22
Timbrhuntr 13-Jan-22
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HDE 13-Jan-22
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Myke 13-Jan-22
azelkhntr 13-Jan-22
scentman 13-Jan-22
spike78 13-Jan-22
Matt 13-Jan-22
bigeasygator 13-Jan-22
spike78 13-Jan-22
Matt 13-Jan-22
spike78 13-Jan-22
Butcherboy 13-Jan-22
Myke 14-Jan-22
spike78 14-Jan-22
Rut Nut 14-Jan-22
Bou'bound 14-Jan-22
strin 16-Jan-22
spike78 16-Jan-22
'Ike' (Phone) 16-Jan-22
trublucolo 16-Jan-22
From: WYOelker
10-Jan-22
SomI did not want to hi-jack the other threads… But last week, while the CDC was beginning to hear legal challenges on the CMS (Medicare and Medicade) employee mandate. Where anyone not vaccinated will be fired if you have anything at all to do with these funds…

Anyways last week the cdc gave approval guidelines for hospital workers who are positive for COVID but have mild symptoms to return to work as long as they are vaccinated.

So under the current system. No Vaccine you are immediately fired. But at the same time if you have the vaccine and are positive and have symptoms you are good to work if you follow the masking and PPE.

Do they really think we are that stupid? I mean there are a few here that seem to be dumb enough to fail for it, but I can’t imagine any of this being tolerated much longer.

Luckily we live in a state that is during over the CMS mandate and for now my wife is not forced to decide.

From: Dmac
10-Jan-22
Thats KsFlatheads folks running the Gvt for ya. Did you expect something rational?

D

10-Jan-22
It would be nice if the SCOTUS had facts

From: Hackbow
10-Jan-22
"Do they really think we are that stupid?"

Yes. They do.

From: Jaquomo
10-Jan-22
Actually, they KNOW we're that stupid. Or half the country, anyway. I still see lota of people driving alone or walking alone wearing masks. SMH.

10-Jan-22
The experts and mainstream media are reporting things this week that would get you flagged off big tech a few months ago. I don't suppose they will be sending apology letters.

From: Rocky D
11-Jan-22
“Actually, they KNOW we're that stupid. Or half the country, anyway. I still see lota of people driving alone or walking alone wearing masks. SMH.”

Joq, I had a discussion with very professional young African American lady in Houston that works for a company that I do a little consulting for and she told me that the mask has become a political statement!

From: scentman
11-Jan-22
I totally agree with your post Wyo. If it weren't for the "experts" what would we discuss in the off season on bowsite? They do make good entertainment!

11-Jan-22
Remember the pre election speech where Biden said he would end COVID. Over half the voters believed him, that is how dumb and uneducated America is.

11-Jan-22
Fully vaxxed, boosted, yet still gets it. Shocked, how could this be? The sheeple followed lockstep, such as a guy at work who wanted to get all 3 vax's offered, and who BTW got COVID twice, including the time a month after he got the booster.

Now, the CDC director has finally admitted, yesterday, that 75% of the vaxxed that died with COVID, had at least 4, that's right 4, comorbidities. Still can't get a straight answer though as to how many died FROM it, as to WITH it. Originally, when they published a stat on their website in 2020, the number was 6% died FROM it, and the other 94% that DIED , had 2.6 underlying comorbidities.

Knock, Knock

Who's there?

Lenin

Lenin who?

Lenin me in, I'm here for your freedoms!

From: scentman
11-Jan-22
Yea, and before that the "unicorn" administration of Obama put ole Joe in charge of curing cancer... there is another cancer...the Democrat party. They are so afraid of Trump, with all this conspiracy Jan. 6... they will not let it die.

From: Treeline
11-Jan-22
And so it goes.

I have even been cancelled off of Bowsite in the last year and a half for even mentioning some of those statistics from the CDC VAERS and only asking that people take a look and judge for themselves….

Now the head of the CDC actually admits it on one of the MSM News shows? Shame on her!

From: Lawdog
11-Jan-22
Agree. This makes no sense at all. They sold the "vaccine" on the premise that you wouldn't get Covid. They lied and are still doing it. I gave up long ago on the why of it all. So, here's to all of the lockdown politicians coming to my state to party without restrictions and going home with Covid. Me, I'm just going to buy some more toilet paper. Yes, the shelves were wiped clean (pun intended) last week. But maybe folks need that to clean up all of the BS.

From: Rut Nut
11-Jan-22

Rut Nut's embedded Photo
Rut Nut's embedded Photo
Yep! NOW you can be positive and “mildly symptomatic” with “improving symptoms” .............and return to work after 5 days.

Amazing how they continually move the goalposts! : (

11-Jan-22
I am triple vaccinated and wear a mask, will let the chips fall where they may.

From: Dmac
11-Jan-22
Silly fence sitting Independents believed that crap Joebama was selling from his basement in Delaware.

Those soccer moms wont make that mistake again. They all lost their jobs when there kids were at home all year. Nothe they go back to school and she goes back to work and they send junior back home and close school again.

Yeah, folks are done with Jobummer bigtime.

D

From: 12yards
11-Jan-22
Can't remember who said it but a mask is the left's MAGA hat.

From: Brotsky
11-Jan-22
I'm vaxxed and boosted, just got Covid for the 2nd time, hardly had a sniffle and only tested because of a close contact. A good friend of mine also caught it, unvaxxed, same age and health as me, runs, works out, etc. It just about killed him. You take your chances with political statements fellas. People are dying every day right now in this country for their political statements, if you feel that strongly about it to bet your life then good on you. I respect your strong beliefs.

From: stringgunner
11-Jan-22
+1 Brotsky. First hand experience watching it take down two young and healthy folks with zero co-morbitities. Both whom refused the vax. My sister and her husband are on their 3 rd round of covid, 5-6 months apart each time, not vaxed. And yeah I know vaxed folks who are getting it and dying as well. Armchair health care professionals have about as good a chance of being right as the real pros it seems.

From: DS
11-Jan-22

DS's embedded Photo
DS's embedded Photo
Well Brotsky, here's my experience. I am not vaccinated. I got the virus in September. When I found out that I was exposed to someone who had it, I started taking Ivermectin, vitamin C, D and zinc. I had basically a mild cold. I knew I had it was because I lost my sense of smell and taste for awhile and had an off and on fever. I've also heard of fully vaccinated people who were hit hard so there is no way you can say that the vaccine made the symptoms more mild because there is no way you could know.

From: bigeasygator
11-Jan-22
Yep! NOW you can be positive and “mildly symptomatic” with “improving symptoms” .............and return to work after 5 days. Amazing how they continually move the goalposts! : (

What was it before for you? Is this not lowering the goalposts (ie, making things less restrictive)? If so, why is this a bad thing?

From: Dale06
11-Jan-22
Brodsky, interesting comments. I’m all for choice, vax if you want, don’t vax if you don’t want. I did have have three cousins, two were anti vaxers. The other, I’m not sure, he had med issues. The other two did not have med issues. Ages on their tomb stones read 58, 65, and 66. And I have a good hunting friend and wife that are anti vaxers. They both are slowly recovering from Covid. They’re saying they hope to get back to normal some day. Would vax have helped these, I have no idea. But they are data points pretty close to me.

From: Rut Nut
11-Jan-22
From: bigeasygator 11-Jan-22

What was it before for you? Is this not lowering the goalposts (ie, making things less restrictive)? If so, why is this a bad thing?

Before it was isolate for 14 days, then can return with negative test.

Somewhere around 12/28 it became (IF VAXED AND BOOSTED) return to work whether positive or negative IF ASYMPTOMATIC after 5 days- IF VAXED but NOT boosted, then return after 5 days if Asymptomatic WITH a negative test- if NOT vaxed, then return to work after 7 days WITH a negative test.

Sometime after Jan 3rd it changed to the latest protocol.

It IS a bad thing because it shows those in authority have NO CLUE and just throws everyone into a state of confusion trying to decipher the constantly changing and conflicting guidelines! : (

From: HDE
11-Jan-22
Some people have a rough time with it, others not. A friend of mine tested positive a year and a half ago way before the vaccine was available. He thought he had a case of hay-fever for the afternoon. That's it and that's all.

The one true and real thing is, within the next two years, everyone person alive and walking the planet (not isolated in a rain forest or any kind of a hermit) will most absolutely and undeniably come in contact with SARS-2 or one of its variants. Simple and true fact. Even the wise Tony-wan-Faunobi will attest to that...

From: Chief
11-Jan-22
When you take the emotion out of an argument that’s when clear logical answers can be observed. When it comes to the vaccine there ARE instances when both sides can be right at the same time. For example: Early in the pandemic several epidemiologists postulated that the vaccine MAY be a double - edged sword; in that it will probably decrease the severity of symptoms, but may also actually make you MORE susceptible to contracting the virus in the first place. Now, almost 2 years later, when being able to look at & analyze a huge body of evidence this is exactly what appears to be happening. I personally know people working in several local hospitals & they ALL agree on one thing: the most serious / deadly / fatal cases of COVID are in unvaccinated persons. Conversely, 7 out of 10 people I know who are currently infected are fully vaccinated. In other words - this doesn’t have to be an either / or argument. The data is fairly clear at this point. The potential side - effects from the vaccine are an entirely separate argument.

From: bigeasygator
11-Jan-22
It IS a bad thing because it shows those in authority have NO CLUE and just throws everyone into a state of confusion trying to decipher the constantly changing and conflicting guidelines! : (

I wouldn't say they have "no clue." I think they are trying to balance a number of often conflicting priorities - managing the impact on our healthcare institutions, minimizing the disruption to the economy, etc - and constantly trying to balance the risk, rewards, and costs of various recommendations.

Scientifically speaking, the current recommendations from the CDC don't really make a whole lot of sense. But personally I think they are borne of a place of trying to control the pace at which the disease spreads, but not as much in the past as this variant seems to be less severe but more transmissible (which could wreak havoc on the economy if the old guidelines stayed in place given the case count). Again, it's a balancing act and I don't think it's an easy one.

I think the current guidance is a step closer to "normalcy" which to me is a step to be celebrated with respect to putting the worst of the pandemic behind us. I hope I'm not counting my chickens before they're hatched, but I'm cautiously optimistic. My only concern is that while far less severe in terms of outcomes, this variant appears way more transmissible. In other words (and these are made up numbers for illustration only), if I have virus A that infects 20% of the population and makes 25% of those people really sick (ie, 5% of the population gets really sick), it's still "better" than virus B that infects 80% of the population but "only" gets 10% of the population really sick. At the end of the day, virus B would make almost 2X the number of people really sick as virus A would.

Severe illness and death will lag case counts and hospitalizations, so that still remains to be seen with what we get out of Omicron, but so far so good and we continue to add tools to the toolbox to deal with this - which is why I'd hope we'll see more and more revised guidance from the likes of the CDC that takes us closer and closer to a place of "back to normal."

I also heard something else today that I hadn't necessarily thought of before. The CDC typically does not have to deal with the public directly. Pre-pandemic, CDC guidelines and recommendations were funneled through the various healthcare providers and local governing bodies and that is how they've been structured to operate. The pandemic has put them front and center in the spotlight with the public and they clearly were not equipped to operate in this manner, and it has definitely eroded the trust of these institutions. It will be interesting to see what they do to adapt based on the pandemic - do they go the route of staying in the shadows and providing guidance but leaving it more up to local authorities, agencies, and healthcare providers to serve as the public face of the healthcare crisis? Or do they alter their make-up and approach to be better equipped to respond in a public way to the next national healthcare emergency?

From: trublucolo
11-Jan-22
Speaking of BS? How many of you are domestic terrorists with children?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/education-secretary-cardona-solicited-nsba-letter-comparing-parents-domestic-terrorists-email

More of the Biden administration's divisiveness if this is true. It's bad enough the teachers union requested DOJ intervention against parents, but it appears it may have been instigated at the highest levels.

From: Jaquomo
11-Jan-22
Today's front page story: "Hospitals around the U.S. — including some in Colorado — are increasingly taking the extraordinary step of allowing nurses and other workers infected with the coronavirus to stay on the job if they have mild symptoms or none at all."

So an infected asymptomatic nurse can give the virus to someone with serious health issues and kill them and that's ok now?

From: Rut Nut
11-Jan-22
BEG- the way Fauci, our Fed Govt, and some state and local governments have handled this whole COVID mess really has proven how inept, power hungry and corrupt they are! They are STILL pushing the vaccines and boosters even though it is painfully obvious at this point they are doing nothing to slow the spread of this latest variant, and in fact may very well be making people more suseptible to it!

Meanwhile their guidelines seem to change about every week now, and it is obvious to anyone paying attention that they are just making %$#@ up as they go along now...........................

The good news is that apparently we have reached the point that the latest variants have mutated to a point that most folks will not have serious affects from it and the death toll will continue to plummet.

At this point we need to start getting back to normal life and forget about these rediculous mandates and restrictions which by now will do little to protect people or curb the spread!

From: bigeasygator
11-Jan-22
I don't think they are pushing vaccines and boosters to "slow the spread" at all. They are pushing vaccines and boosters to keep people from getting seriously ill and dying and to better prevent our critical healthcare services from being overwhelmed - vaccines have proved effective at doing this and it's not up for debate. The new guidelines will clearly speed up the spread of the variant by reducing isolation and quarantine time. As I said before, I think they are trying to balance all of these factors - they want a return to normalcy and the latest guidelines are a step in that direction but they also don't want to overly strain the healthcare systems and cause needless deaths (and I'm not talking about COVID related deaths but deaths due to limited healthcare capacity to manage broader patient counts due to the COVID burden).

From: Rut Nut
11-Jan-22
Jaq- I guess at this point they have no choice, after firing hundreds of thousands of unvaccinated healthcare workers that got them thru the first wave................................now they have to deal with the fallout from that decision. : (

From: elkmtngear
11-Jan-22
They are still threatening to fire healthcare workers in many States, if they don't get their booster (but yet, allowing fully vaccinated employees to work, if positive).

My Wife is one of them (Critical Care Nurse). She was forced to get the vaccine in the first place (she already had Covid), now she has to get the booster, or lose her job.

I can happily say I had no part, in voting for this kind of bulls***

From: scentman
11-Jan-22
My decision to Vax or not Vax has nothing to do with politics, but everything to do with my own body and feeling comfortable with what goes in it... and for the record I believe "moving the goal posts" means side to side, not up and down... I mean they're only like10 ft off the ground. Cmon man.

From: bigeasygator
11-Jan-22
So an infected asymptomatic nurse can give the virus to someone with serious health issues and kill them and that's ok now?

Is that article in a local paper, Jaq? I'd like to read it.

I can see this decision being made more and more. With the case counts as high as they are, it really has the potential to impact staffing (healthcare or otherwise). I think this was a big part of the CDC's motivation to reduce the isolation time with the latest wave.

As a healthcare provider, I can absolutely see making this choice. Do I leave my staff shorthanded and potentially put a big swath of the public seeking treatment unrelated to COVID at risk? Or do I take the chance and bring potentially transmissible staff back to deal with the increased healthcare demand knowing that vaccines are highly effective at preventing the most severe healthcare outcomes and are the most effective way to manage COVID risk? Essentially it's putting the risk back on the public - if you feel you're at risk and exposed, get vaccinated because there's a high likelihood you're going to be exposed and or infected. Again, with the tools we have now to manage COVID I could easily see taking that choice. But I'm curious what the article says.

From: bigeasygator
11-Jan-22

From: ahunter76
11-Jan-22
RUT NUT, totally agree with you on all points. I look at it as our "new" flu. Yes, like other viruses we get (Flu for one) SOME will die & be a shock due to their age ect... It happens with ALL diseases. I say, concentrate on those with "other health problems prior accounting for 75% of deaths the EXPERTS tell us NOW" & protect them, the rest of us will get along for the most part, just fine. Back to living folks. Yes, I have been vaxed, boosted & GOT Covid after. We have family (adults & kids) with it now. Vaxed & unvaxed.

From: bigeasygator
11-Jan-22
"other health problems prior accounting for 75% of deaths the EXPERTS tell us NOW"

That was only in the vaccinated population, FYI. The statement that was made is that 75% of the people who died while fully vaccinated had four or more comorbidities, again showing how effective the vaccine is at preventing significant illness and death.

From: Grey Ghost
11-Jan-22
Here's my most recent anecdotal Covid story. My best friend is a healthy 35 year old man. He's been a staunch Covid conspiracy theorists, and anti-vaxer from the start. His opinions were bolstered 6 months ago when his wife caught Covid. They made no attempt to isolate from each other, nor did they use any PPE precautions while she was sick. My buddy never caught the virus, so he was convinced his natural immune system was Covid-proof. Whenever we'd discuss Covid, he'd belligerently argue that it wasn't as contagious nor as severe as reported, then he'd point to his wife's case as proof of that.

Lo and behold, he contracted Covid last Wednesday and is still too sick to return to work today. He said it has kicked his ass like no other sickness he's ever had. I'm sure he'll be fine. But, when I see him again, you can bet I'm going to make him eat a little humble pie.

Matt

From: scentman
11-Jan-22
GG, I feel you are an intelligent person with strong feelings and want to share them, but if I were you I would give my buddy a big hug when this is all over, and tell him your happy for he and his wife... don't rub salt.

From: bigeasygator
11-Jan-22
Matt, I'll share a little COVID story of my own. I'm triple vaccinated. I'm obviously in a low risk group given my age and health. I chose to get vaccinated and boosted as I trusted the science and while potentially not providing me any personal risk reduction, overall in the context of managing the virus and disease I felt like I was doing all I can to get this country back to a state of normalcy. My wife did the same.

We both tested positive last week and have been isolating per the CDC guidelines. We only knew we had it because we chose to get tested after being in close contact with a number of positive cases over New Year's. We had no symptoms, so the tests were an effort to see to what level we should isolate. I took an at home test that came back negative, she took one that came back positive and we followed that up immediately that day with a PCR test that later came back positive for both of us.

My nose got slightly runny for a day or two during our isolation period. Same with my wife. That was the extent of our symptoms. I know others who tested positive who were hit with much worse symptoms. How much did our vax status play a part in keeping symptoms mild? No way to tell with any certainty, but I'm of the mindset that it certainly didn't hurt. In fact, while positive, I went outside for runs of 4 and 5 miles over the last week and had no issues.

Anyways, now I've got the super-immunity (triple vaxed plus natural) so I'm pretty much a super hero now as far as I'm concerned.

From: 2Wild Bill
11-Jan-22
"I'm pretty much a super hero now as far as I'm concerned"

That may be as long as you don't take up soccer playing.

From: Matt
11-Jan-22

Matt's Link
"Do they really think we are that stupid?"

There are still 50M-60M American adults who remain unvaccinated because they have bought into propaganda or are making a political statement through a healthcare decision, so can you blame them?

"Well Brotsky, here's my experience. I am not vaccinated. I got the virus in September. When I found out that I was exposed to someone who had it, I started taking Ivermectin, vitamin C, D and zinc. I had basically a mild cold. I knew I had it was because I lost my sense of smell and taste for awhile and had an off and on fever. I've also heard of fully vaccinated people who were hit hard so there is no way you can say that the vaccine made the symptoms more mild because there is no way you could know."

No one knows if the vax would help on an individual basis, but the statistics are very clear that the vast majority of people who are getting hospitalized and dying from COVID are unvaccinated even though they are in the minority. This has been the case for months.

The vaccines were never intended to keep people from becoming infected with COVID, the initial study design was to measure protection against severe disease and the EUA's were granted on that basis. They did protect against infection from the original strain (and unfortunately too much emphasis was placed on this by some healthcare experts), but we started to see breakthrough infections with Delta and much more frequently with Omicron. IMO people who continue to be critical of the vaccines for failing to do something they were not designed at this point are willfully uninformed as they continue to stare at the wrong goalpost.

From: Grey Ghost
11-Jan-22
Eric,

You're probably right, but you'd need to know this guy. I love him, but he can be the most arrogant, stubborn, pig-headed guy alive at times. I think a bit of humble pie will do him good.

Matt

From: elkmtngear
11-Jan-22
"There are still 50M-60M American adults who remain unvaccinated because they have bought into propaganda or are making a political statement through a healthcare decision, so can you blame them"?

Soooo, Natural Immunity is now "Propaganda"? Covid Survivors make up the Lion's share of the 60 Million you speak of.

Follow the Science, right?

From: azelkhntr
11-Jan-22

azelkhntr's embedded Photo
azelkhntr's embedded Photo
This is one of the most dangerous things a politician has eve said in the civilized Western World since Mein Kampf. You better believe that he has an agenda and it ends in the pit or up a chimney. I will remain unmasked, untested, unx-vaxd, and most unapologetic for all of it.

From: Matt
11-Jan-22
"Soooo, Natural Immunity is now "Propaganda"? Covid Survivors make up the Lion's share of the 60 Million you speak of."

So, you are implying that natural immunity is providing good protection to the ~20% of the US adult population that is comprising ~90% of the COVID deaths? I'll let you marinate on that one.

From: Grey Ghost
11-Jan-22
"Anyways, now I've got the super-immunity (triple vaxed plus natural) so I'm pretty much a super hero now as far as I'm concerned."

And here all along I thought I was a super hero because I remain un-vaxed and Covid-free. LOL!

I just got a call from my wife who was on her way to a dentist appointment. The dentist office called her to cancel her appointment because the majority of the staff have contracted Covid in the last few days. I'm starting to realize that my Covid-free status is tenuous at best. I may have to re-think my vaccine status.

Matt

From: bigeasygator
11-Jan-22
"There are still 50M-60M American adults who remain unvaccinated because they have bought into propaganda or are making a political statement through a healthcare decision, so can you blame them"? Soooo, Natural Immunity is now "Propaganda"? Covid Survivors make up the Lion's share of the 60 Million you speak of.

Not disagreeing, but do you have a source that confirms this?

11-Jan-22
"You're probably right, but you'd need to know this guy. I love him, but he can be the most arrogant, stubborn, pig-headed guy alive at times. I think a bit of humble pie will do him good.

Matt"

seems strange when youve said you havent been vaccinated yourself. what will it take to convince you?

From: bigeasygator
11-Jan-22
I'm starting to realize that my Covid-free status is tenuous at best. I may have to re-think my vaccine status.

Yeah, this variant is a monster from a transmissibility perspective. Granted, we were in situations that would be deemed a higher risk of infection over the holidays - gathering with family and friends for Christmas Eve Eve, Christmas Eve, and Christmas plus a pub crawl and wedding on New Year's Eve Eve and New Year's Eve. With that said, these types of things haven't been unique for us (ie, we've certainly been in plenty of other social settings over the last year and a half), but this was our first infection. Just look at the rate of increase in current case counts - it's an order of magnitude higher than what went on with Alpha and Delta.

11-Jan-22

Panhandle Bob's Link
Interesting article...

Compounds found in hemp "show the ability to prevent the virus that causes COVID-19 from entering human cells," Oregon State University says.

From: scentman
11-Jan-22
GG, yea I guess you know your bud better than anyone. That Trudeau dude is creepy... almost as creepy as his old man! We have a local radio talk show here close to the border... good to see our Canadian brothers and sisters have common sense when it comes to this Commy.

From: Grey Ghost
11-Jan-22
" ...what will it take to convince you?"

I just need to swallow my own pride and considerable ego. I'm the guy who likes to brag about never getting sick. My last minor cold was over 5 years ago after I was on a plane with several obviouslly sick passengers who were constantly coughing, sneezing, and blowing their noses. I don't even recall the last time I was sick before that.

It's fun to think you're bullet-proof until you're not, I guess.

Matt

From: azelkhntr
11-Jan-22

azelkhntr's Link
Anyone got some spare misinfo conspiracy theories? All mine are come true LOL! Its not really funny tho.

11-Jan-22
chances are it wont be but pride can be fatal. ive never fallen from a treestand but i still wear a harness.

From: azelkhntr
11-Jan-22

azelkhntr's Link

From: Matt
11-Jan-22
Should we be surprised that the ex-Pfizer guy who suggests COVID doesn’t actually exists is a your go-to for vaccine advice?

From: elkmtngear
11-Jan-22

elkmtngear's Link
"Not disagreeing, but do you have a source that confirms this?"

"Worldometer" lists 42,585,726 recovered in the U.S. (see link)

11-Jan-22
"Worldometer" lists 42,585,726 recovered in the U.S."

if you are assuming that all the people that recovered from covid did not also get vaccinated, that would be a mistake. almost everyone i know that got covid in 2020 also got the vaccination.

From: Grey Ghost
11-Jan-22
I was thinking the same thing, Ricky. I'd guess well over half of those recovered cases are also vaccinated, if not more.

Matt

From: Saphead
11-Jan-22
Chief.... Good Post

From: Jaquomo
11-Jan-22

Jaquomo's Link
BEG, it was a national AP story on today's front pages

From: bigeasygator
11-Jan-22
"Worldometer" lists 42,585,726 recovered in the U.S. (see link)

And it doesn’t say how many were vaxed or unvaxed. Asking again for a breakdown of cases by vaccination status. You made a statement (which may or may not be true) for which I’ve seen no data to back it up.

From: elkmtngear
11-Jan-22
"if you are assuming that all the people that recovered from covid did not also get vaccinated, that would be a mistake. almost everyone i know that got covid in 2020 also got the vaccination".

If you are assuming that the number on Worldometer is the ACTUAL number of recovered Covid people in the U.S....THAT would be a mistake!

Common sense dictates that Millions have already had it that didn't make the chart, many of them not even realizing they had it.

From: Shaft2Long
11-Jan-22
Yes WYOelker, we are that stupid. The current regime in power is a testament to that fact.

From: Matt
11-Jan-22
'"Worldometer" lists 42,585,726 recovered in the U.S. (see link)'

While that data does not indicate what you indicate, it still doesn't explain why the unvaccinated are dying ~9x as often as the vaccinated while they only represent ~20% of the population. There is still at least one more hole in your theory.

From: azelkhntr
11-Jan-22

azelkhntr's embedded Photo
azelkhntr's embedded Photo

11-Jan-22
"Common sense dictates that Millions have already had it that didn't make the chart, many of them not even realizing they had it."

and a large number of those have also been vaccinated.

From: elkmtngear
11-Jan-22
"While that data does not indicate what you indicate, it still doesn't explain why the unvaccinated are dying ~9x as often as the vaccinated while they only represent ~20% of the population. There is still at least one more hole in your theory".

The only large scale study I have seen in the U.S., (on the CDC Website...10 million patients), shows no more than 4x the death rate, maximum, in unvaccinated vs vaccinated. Where are you getting your numbers, from Justice Sotomayer?

Also, it's impossible to tell whether the "unvaccinated" already had Covid, or not. So it could be mostly "non-Covid Survivors" making up the bulk of those deaths.

Also, in the 17 and under age group from that study, there was no difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated deaths...but, only 12 individuals died during the Study period in that age group.

From: bigeasygator
11-Jan-22
Soooo, Natural Immunity is now "Propaganda"? Covid Survivors make up the Lion's share of the 60 Million you speak of.

Follow the Science, right?

So, just for clarity, you made a statement with no data backing it up, nor have you provided a better data set than the ones that are generally available (which make some account for cases that go unreported). That is certainly not following the science.

But furthermore, even if we try and make sense of your statement that the majority of unvaccinated individuals have natural immunity, it only shows how effective vaccines have been at preventing disease and that they are far more effective than going the "natural route."

I don't know what you call a "lion's share" of the 60 million unvaccinated adults (I think it's actually closer to 70 million unvaccinated individuals 18 years or older), but I'd say that's something like 40 million unvaccinated individuals having COVID and gaining natural immunity as you claim they did. Seeing as we've had 60 million COVID cases reported in this country, unvaccinated individuals would account for 67% of the cases.

Put another way, the rate of COVID disease would be 20 million cases out of the 189 adults fully vaccinated, or about 11%.

The rate of COVID in unvaccinated adults would be 40 million in 60 million, or 67%.

Plus, there are plenty of people who were sick with Alpha or Delta now getting sick with Omicron and prior natural immunity doesn't seem to be much different than vaccine acquired immunity.

From: spike78
11-Jan-22
If your not vaccinated now then why even get it? Doctors all over are saying Omicron is a damn cold. I went two years no vaccine and this is said to end probably in March with a possible cold why get it now? And why is Biden going forward with the damn mandate for a virus that is a common cold? Doesn’t make sense

From: Matt
11-Jan-22

Matt's Link
"The only large scale study I have seen in the U.S., (on the CDC Website...10 million patients), shows no more than 4x the death rate, maximum, in unvaccinated vs vaccinated. Where are you getting your numbers, from Justice Sotomayer?"

Excerpts from a study conducted in the liberal hotbed of Texas: "(From September 4 through October 1, 2021) - Unvaccinated people were 20 times more likely to experience COVID-19-associated death than fully vaccinated people."

"Vaccination had a strong protective effect on infections and deaths among people of all ages. The protective impact on infections was consistent across adult age groups and even greater in people ages 12 to 17 years. The protective impact on COVID-19 deaths, which was high for all age groups, varied more widely. In the September time frame, unvaccinated people in their 40s were 55 times more likely to die from COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated people of the same age. Unvaccinated people aged 75 years and older were 12 times more likely to die than their vaccinated counterparts."

11-Jan-22
"The only large scale study I have seen in the U.S., (on the CDC Website...10 million patients), shows no more than 4x the death rate, maximum, in unvaccinated vs vaccinated."

link?

From: elkmtngear
11-Jan-22
"Plus, there are plenty of people who were sick with Alpha or Delta now getting sick with Omicron and prior natural immunity doesn't seem to be much different than vaccine acquired immunity".

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043e2.htm

Bingo! Time to stop blaming the "unvaccinated" for Covid 19 (Which unfortunately includes many people with Natural Immunity)...everybody is getting it, and spreading it.

From: Grey Ghost
11-Jan-22
Elkmtngear, what portion of your link do you think supports your argument?

Matt

From: spike78
11-Jan-22
I love how Matt argues with us but is not vaccinated as well jeez what an effin riot!

From: Rut Nut
11-Jan-22

Rut Nut's embedded Photo
Rut Nut's embedded Photo
From: spike78 11-Jan-22

If your not vaccinated now then why even get it? Doctors all over are saying Omicron is a damn cold. I went two years no vaccine and this is said to end probably in March with a possible cold why get it now? And why is Biden going forward with the damn mandate for a virus that is a common cold? Doesn’t make sense

Couldn’t agree more Spike!

Why is Biden going ahead with the mandates? Because they will NEVER admit they were WRONG ...............and COMMON SENSE has nothing to do with it! : (

Just got this “public service message” in our VA Employee weekly newsletter ..................they are STILL pushing the propaganda even when it’s becoming obvious it’s a load of B. S.!

From: Matt
11-Jan-22

Matt's Link
This article looks at the Omicron impact thus far in the US (NY most specifically) and indicates that we are not seeing the same encouraging decoupling of increasing case counts and hospitalizations as seen in South Africa and the UK. Preliminarily, in the US it is looking more like the Delta wave we saw in the fall than what SA and the UK experienced with Omicron. The US's low vaccination rate is cited as a likely driver.

From: elkmtngear
11-Jan-22
"Elkmtngear, what portion of your link do you think supports your argument? Matt"

Matt, I threw that link in there for "Ricky the Cable Guy"...since he asked for it.

From: Matt
11-Jan-22
"Elkmtngear, what portion of your link do you think supports your argument?"

Are you suggesting that data collected up to July 21st, 2021 isn't relevant for addressing a claim regarding a variant that was not discovered until November 2021? You are disrupting the echo chamber. For shame....

From: spike78
11-Jan-22
Matt that’s probably because Africans are skinny and the United States has a fat lazy problem. We are also stacked up like chord wood in the over populated cities. Just my unscientific observation ;)

From: Orion
11-Jan-22
Matt obesity is way more of a cause then not being vaccinated. Just look at all the CDC's stats on obesity and how much worse Covid affects those individuals.

From: HDE
11-Jan-22
If fat and lazy was the primary driver to mortality rates, 1/3 of the US population would be gone by now...

From: Jaquomo
11-Jan-22

Jaquomo's Link
Coronavirus attacks fat tissue - from the NY Times

From: stealthycat
11-Jan-22
coerce, manipulate, bribe, shame ... and if that doesn't work, mandate/threaten

all to get the shots that are questionable at best

From: Matt
11-Jan-22
"Matt obesity is way more of a cause then not being vaccinated. Just look at all the CDC's stats on obesity and how much worse Covid affects those individuals."

Can you share the link to the CDC data which supports that as I have not seen it? From what I *have* seen (vaccination status aside), age is the most significant factor with as high as 81% of US COVID deaths having been to those 65 or older (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html). I have seen CDC numbers as high as 78% for obesity, although that stat is almost a year old and predates the widespread deployment of vaccines. Recent commentary I read puts obesity behind age as a risk factor.

Recent numbers that I have seen on US COVID deaths tend to be localized (by hospital/hospital system and not CDC data, but fairly consistent across the US) and suggest that between 85%-90% of people who have been dying in the US are unvaccinated. With this, the risk % for being unvaccinated appears to be higher than for both advanced age and obesity but I have not found comparative data within a single data set.

From: Orion
11-Jan-22
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html

From: Orion
11-Jan-22
The CDC also released data showing that obesity has a huge effect on juveniles getting Covid and severity of symptoms. Here is a nice stat from the CDC: About 78% of people who have been hospitalized, needed a ventilator or died from Covid-19 have been overweight or obese, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in a new study Monday.

From: HDE
11-Jan-22
Skinny people die from it as well...

From: Orion
11-Jan-22
I didn't say they didn't but there is a ton of evidence that it affects the obese worse.

From: Orion
11-Jan-22
HDE curious if your "skinny" people actually had a BMI test done?

From: Matt
11-Jan-22
That link you provided does not show data that obesity is a bigger factor than vaccination in COVID death that I can find.

One other thing that is significant and gets overlooked when simply looking at relative risk factors is that there are almost 2x the number of obese Americans (~42% of the population, https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html) than unvaccinated Americans (~25% of the population, https://usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-states/). And yet it appears the unvaccinated represent almost 90% of COVID hospitalizations and deaths. Viewed through that lense, I find it almost impossible to believe that obesity could present a greater risk than being unvaccinated.

From: Tilzbow
12-Jan-22
The title of this thread is about perfect for a large portion this thread’s content. You each have the freedom to decide which portions for yourself. The end.

12-Jan-22
"Matt, I threw that link in there for "Ricky the Cable Guy"...since he asked for it."

"The only large scale study I have seen in the U.S., (on the CDC Website...10 million patients), shows no more than 4x the death rate, maximum, in unvaccinated vs vaccinated."

sorry but that link has nothing to do with what you said...it's not even about covid-19 deaths.

From: elkmtngear
12-Jan-22
"sorry but that link has nothing to do with what you said...it's not even about covid-19 deaths".

Apparently, you do not understand how to read and/or interpret data:

The cohort consisted of 6.4 million COVID-19 vaccinees and 4.6 million unvaccinated persons with similar characteristics as the comparison groups. Among 3.5 million Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine recipients, 9.2% were aged 12–17 years, 69.4% were aged 18–64 years, 54.0% were female, 42.7% were White persons, 21.4% were Hispanic persons, 16.6% were Asian persons, and 5.1% were Black persons (Table 1). Among 2.6 million Moderna vaccine recipients, 71.7% were aged 18–64 years, 54.5% were female, 44.2% were White persons, 23.1% were Hispanic persons, 14.2% were Asian persons, and 5.6% were Black persons. Among 342,169 Janssen vaccine recipients, 87.5% were aged 18–64 years, 4.1% were aged ?75 years, 48.0% were female, 45.1% were White persons, 20.3% were Hispanic persons, 13.4% were Asian persons, and 6.1% were Black persons.

After excluding COVID-19–associated deaths, overall SMRs after dose 1 were 0.42 and 0.37 per 100 person-years for Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna, respectively, and were 0.35 and 0.34, respectively, after dose 2 (Table 2). These rates were lower than the rate of 1.11 per 100 person-years among the unvaccinated mRNA vaccine comparison group (p <0.001). Among Janssen vaccine recipients, the overall SMR was 0.84 per 100 person-years, lower than the rate of 1.47 per 100 person-years among the unvaccinated comparison group (p <0.001). Among persons aged 12–17 years, SMRs were similar among the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine recipients and unvaccinated comparison groups (p = 0.68 after dose 1 and 0.89 after dose 2). SMRs were also similar between Janssen vaccine recipients and unvaccinated comparison groups among Asian persons (p = 0.11). Among other subgroups defined by vaccine received, age, sex, and race and ethnicity, COVID-19 vaccine recipients had lower SMRs than did their unvaccinated counterparts (p <0.05).

The overall aRR among Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine recipients compared with the unvaccinated comparison group was 0.41 (95% CI = 0.38–0.44) after dose 1 and 0.34 (95% CI = 0.33–0.36) after dose 2 (Table 3). Among Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine recipients aged 12–17 years, mortality risk among vaccinated and unvaccinated persons was similar after dose 1 (aRR = 0.85; 95% CI = 0.38–1.90) and after dose 2 (aRR = 0.73; 95% CI = 0.33–1.64). Among other age groups, aRRs ranged from 0.35 (95% CI = 0.29–0.42) among persons aged 45–64 years to 0.46 (95% CI = 0.39–0.54) among persons aged ?85 years after dose 1, and from 0.28 (95% CI = 0.25–0.31) among persons aged 45–64 years to 0.39 (95% CI = 0.36–0.43) among those aged ?85 years after dose 2. Similar aRRs among vaccinated persons compared with the unvaccinated comparison group were observed for recipients of the Moderna vaccine, ranging from 0.31 (95% CI = 0.26–0.37) among persons aged 45–64 years to 0.46 (95% CI = 0.31–0.69) among persons aged 18–44 years after dose 1, and 0.28 (95% CI = 0.26–0.32) among persons aged 65–74 years to 0.38 (95% CI = 0.29–0.50) among those aged 18–44 years after dose 2. The overall aRR for Janssen was 0.54 (95% CI = 0.49–0.59), and age-stratified aRRs ranged from 0.40 (95% CI = 0.34–0.49) among persons aged 45–64 years to 0.68 (95% CI = 0.56–0.82) among persons aged ?85 years. Across vaccine type and dose, males and females had comparable aRRs. All vaccinated racial and ethnic groups had lower mortality risks than did unvaccinated comparison groups.

From: bigeasygator
12-Jan-22
What point are you trying to make? As others have pointed out, all of that has to do with non-COVID related mortality in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals (SPOILER ALERT straight from your link: There is no increased risk for mortality among COVID-19 vaccine recipients. This finding reinforces the safety profile of currently approved COVID-19 vaccines in the United States.)

So for the record keeping, in this thread, elkmnt has agreed that natural immunity is no better than vaccine acquired immunity and that you are less likely to die of anything non-COVID related being vaccinated vs. being unvaccinated.

From: HDE
12-Jan-22
"I didn't say they didn't but there is a ton of evidence that it affects the obese worse. HDE curious if your "skinny" people actually had a BMI test done?"

Orion, the connotation is that only obese people can die from it. BMI isn't necessarily accurate. Obese people have a tendency to have other ailments and that is the inherent problem. Not the additional fat cells...

From: Grey Ghost
12-Jan-22
"Apparently, you do not understand how to read and/or interpret data:"

I do love irony.

Matt

12-Jan-22
"Apparently, you do not understand how to read and/or interpret data:"

i do...but apparently you are having a tough time with it.

the study you posted compares NON covid-19 deaths between vaccinated and non vaccinated people. It says so right in the title of the study.

COVID-19 Vaccination and Non–COVID-19 Mortality Risk — Seven Integrated Health Care Organizations, United States, December 14, 2020–July 31, 2021

again, it has nothing whatsoever do do with comparing covid-19 deaths in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. it is a study designed to see if there is excess mortality due to the covid-19 vaccines, not due to covid-19.

From: spike78
12-Jan-22
28 year old major league ball player now dead. Wow we sure are losing a bunch of young athletes lately.

From: txhunter58
12-Jan-22
Bump

From: Matt
12-Jan-22
"sorry but that link has nothing to do with what you said...it's not even about covid-19 deaths."

Look at it from the bright side, at least his "2 + 2 = orange" attempt validates the thread title...

12-Jan-22

Ricky The Cabel Guy's Link
maybe elkmtgear should take a look at this link...

12-Jan-22

Ricky The Cabel Guy's Link
and this one...

12-Jan-22

Ricky The Cabel Guy's Link
and this one from the cdc...

everyone should make their own choice but they should make it based on factual data, not some bs someone totally misread...and then posted it as if it was fact.

From: elkmtngear
12-Jan-22
My Bad, I apparently got into that study yesterday, and dove into the mortality numbers, blew by the "Non-Covid" part.

I was probably juggling 3 patients at the time, but that's no excuse. My sincere apologies to you, Rick, Matt, or anyone else I might have rubbed the wrong way.

12-Jan-22
accepted.

the data shows that you are between 14 and 20 times more likely to die from covid-19 if you are unvaccinated than if you are fully vaccinated with a booster. it should be everyones individual choice to get vaccinated or not...choose wisely and choose based on facts.

From: HDE
12-Jan-22
^^^ how'd you have time to type all that up if you were juggling 3 patients at the time?

From: elkmtngear
12-Jan-22
"^^^ how'd you have time to type all that up if you were juggling 3 patients at the time"?

One in the camera, two injected in each stress room. We run like that all day, keep the camera fed. PC is next to the Nuclear Camera, so I have a little down time, in between transition (when I'm not typing up reports). I type 60 WPM, for what that's worth.

From: LINK
12-Jan-22
“ Obese people have a tendency to have other ailments and that is the inherent problem. ”

Obese people also tend to eat terrible and spend excessive amounts of time on their duff. That creates a poor immune system and poor lungs. The people I know that supposedly died of it were men that were 40+ and maybe 60+ pounds overweight. One was in his 30s and extremely obese.

From: HDE
12-Jan-22

HDE's Link
LINK, skinny people also eat terrible and spend an excessive amount of time on their duffs as well. There are a lot of skinny people in the corporate world with office jobs that have horrible diets.

A poor immune system for a lot of people is stress. Americans likely have more stress in their lives than any other nationality, per se. Americans as a whole also work more hours than any other nationality...

From: azelkhntr
12-Jan-22

azelkhntr's Link
More misinfo....

From: Matt
12-Jan-22
At least you are now calling what you post misinformation instead of suggesting they are facts.

From: azelkhntr
12-Jan-22

azelkhntr's embedded Photo
azelkhntr's embedded Photo
Some more misinfo.....

12-Jan-22

Ricky The Cabel Guy's Link
"Some more misinfo....."

correct.

From: Grey Ghost
12-Jan-22
Does anyone take anything azelkhntr posts seriously?

Matt

From: spike78
13-Jan-22
Yeah I guess it makes sense to change an invoice hell all companies do it lol.

From: stealthycat
13-Jan-22
"28 year old major league ball player now dead. Wow we sure are losing a bunch of young athletes lately."

see, that sounds scary doesn't it ?

until a person googles it and finds out that yes, Jean Ramirez has died at 28 years old, former baseball player, and he died UNEXPECTEDLY

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/rays-bullpen-catcher-jean-ramirez-dies-unexpectedly-28-82227064

oh and ... he was vaccinated https://twitter.com/truthp0st/status/1481089578022977536

so all the misinformation Democrats try to spread and all the fear mongering .... .can we actually NOT do that ?

From: spike78
13-Jan-22
New numbers in MA show 47% of hospitalizations are now vaccinated. According to my math that’s about half the people vs non vaxxed.

From: spike78
13-Jan-22
I read an interesting comment today from someone stating children were not hospitalized much for Covid in the beginning but all of a sudden they are vaccinated and now being hospitalized more frequently. I’m not saying theirs truth to it but I did find it interesting that now yes they are saying children are becoming sick.

From: HDE
13-Jan-22
*there's ;^)

From: Rut Nut
13-Jan-22
Yep- VERY interesting Spike!

From: bigeasygator
13-Jan-22
New numbers in MA show 47% of hospitalizations are now vaccinated. According to my math that’s about half the people vs non vaxxed.

And numbers also show that 75% of the population of MA is vaccinated.

So 25% of the population is accounting for over 50% of the hospitalizations.

The disparity is even more alarming when you look at ICU cases and deaths. There, the 25% of the MA population that is unvaccinated accounts for 75-80% of the ICU cases and deaths.

From: Matt
13-Jan-22
Hot off the press, fake news (that was debunked 4 months ago). Just embarrassing.

From: spike78
13-Jan-22
BEG I also read that the death toll the first year was 1.6% and after vaccines is down to a whopping 1.3%. Shouldn’t it be under 1% IF the vaccines were so effective?

From: bigeasygator
13-Jan-22
BEG I also read that the death toll the first year was 1.6% and after vaccines is down to a whopping 1.3%. Shouldn’t it be under 1% IF the vaccines were so effective?

Not if the majority of people getting COVID are unvaccinated. Need to look at more than the mortality rate.

From: Timbrhuntr
13-Jan-22
I read that it would be if everyone would get vaccinated ! Sorry got drawn into it I couldn't help it be funny if it wasn't

From: spike78
13-Jan-22
I wouldn’t say the majority are unvaccinated.

From: HDE
13-Jan-22
"Not if the majority of people getting COVID are unvaccinated. Need to look at more than the mortality rate."

Depends on the data set. If it's a new data set, then yes, the 1.3 could be the unvaccinated. If it's a continuation, then the vaccine's effectiveness is so-so...

From: bigeasygator
13-Jan-22
Depends on the data set

Exactly. In the context of vaccine effectiveness, 1.6% vs. 1.3% means nothing if you're not looking at the timeframe in question (which variant was circulating) and you're not looking at a breakdown of which populations are getting sick and dying, and what rate they're doing so. 1.3% mortality simply means that 1.3% of the people that get COVID die. If the unvaxed make up a disproportionate percentage of those getting sick and ultimately dying, you wouldn't expect to necessarily see a change in the mortality rate as everyone was in the unvaxed category prior to vaccine rollout.

From: Myke
13-Jan-22
Perspective is a funny thing. If Covid was more like a wicked form of the flu, with some nasty diarrhea, people would give each other a little more space. Would you hang out in a room with a bunch of folks with the flu? Probably not. But both could put you in the hospital or homebound for a week or more.

I know of a few guys in one family in the hospital now where they contracted Covid during a wedding. Healthy guys otherwise, but one on a ventilator and the other on just oxygen. Reality can bite hard for some. Rough times for that family.

From: azelkhntr
13-Jan-22
Anyone know why a concrete blast wall is going up around the White House?

From: scentman
13-Jan-22
My wife and I passed on a close family wedding recently,felt bad we weren't going to attend but I had a bad vibe... turns out a majority of attendees old and young contracted covid. I do not know their vac status, but I am happy we did not attend.

From: spike78
13-Jan-22
I was supposed to go to my sisters house for Christmas and found out she invited quite a few people so I said I will stop weekend after. Talked to her week later and a bunch of people at her house tested positive. So I guess I will keep my unvaxxed hermit life going for alittle longer.

From: Matt
13-Jan-22

Matt's Link
Absent the data and more context, the CFR question isn't really answerable IMO.

The linked article indicates that the US CFR was as high as 6.25% at the height of the first wave in 2020 (pre-vaccine), that it was 1.6% from Aug. 2021(by which time the US vaccination rate was ~50%) to Dec., and that it declined to 1.5% or less in January 2022 (US vaccination rate of ~62%). It sounds as though the decrease *to* the 1.6% level was driven in large part by vaccinations. You throw in the slowing rate of vaccination in 2H21 and the decline of vaccine effectiveness over time/need for boosters to get substantial protection from Omicron, I don't think one can really make any claims about where they think the CFR should be or that where it stands is an indictment of vaccine effectiveness. "The raging Omicron variant has pushed COVID-19 cases to record highs in the U.S., but America's case fatality rate has dipped to 1.39 percent, its lowest mark since the first wave of cases struck in March 2020.

The U.S. mortality rate hovered around 1.6 percent from the end of August until mid-December when it started to drop. The highly infectious Omicron has milder disease properties and the widespread use of vaccines has so far prevented deaths from spiking out of control.

On Jan. 1, America's case fatality ratio dropped below 1.5 percent for the first time since the start of the pandemic. At the height of the first wave, the case fatality ratio stood at 6.25 percent, according to Our World In Data, a scientific publication maintained by the University of Oxford."

From: bigeasygator
13-Jan-22
Good point, Matt, that the CFR was actually higher at times pre-vaccine rollout. Like you said, vaccine effectiveness is difficult to decipher from CFR alone - as you need to know who is actually dying.

For that, there is other data available. One needs only to look at the deaths by vaccination status being reported to get a better sense of the vaccine effectiveness. The unvaccinated are dying at a rate that is roughly six to seven times higher than the vaccinated are.

From: spike78
13-Jan-22
Now I’m reading that EU Doctors are saying that too many boosters are actually not good for your immune system in too short of time. Lol it never ends.

From: Matt
13-Jan-22
bEG, in Ricky’s 3rd link of the linked posts in a row, CDv data showed that in Oct,. 2021 the unvaccinated had a 14x greater chance of dying than the vaccinated and a 20x greater chance than the vaccinated and boosted.

From: spike78
13-Jan-22

spike78's Link
Yeah booster warning. It’s like a damn clown show no wonder why nobody wants to get the vaccine.

From: Butcherboy
13-Jan-22
I’m pretty sure I have Covid right now. I got the vaccine back in August and no booster yet. I haven’t had a test done nor will I. I refuse to be a statistic for someone’s political agenda. Right now it feels like a really bad cold with the typical sinus problems and cough. Slight fever off and on. Hasn’t slowed me down much.

From: Myke
14-Jan-22

Myke's Link
Now this is serious stuff - Bwaa haaa haa - sniffles, yes but . . . . WHAT!!!

Maybe people will take Covid more serious now. Forget about the vaccine, pass the Viagra!

https://www.foxnews.com/health/man-claims-covid-19-made-his-penis-shrink?fbclid=IwAR1R1TD4VhW_AI01fWNLX8ljVBnfb9Y3ih-6DiPRE05AvOa0tiAUK8pVxck

From: spike78
14-Jan-22
I can’t afford that to happen I’m getting vaxxed now!

From: Rut Nut
14-Jan-22
Good excuse! Yeah, blame it on COVID! ;-)

From: Bou'bound
14-Jan-22
This is crazy.

From: strin
16-Jan-22

strin's Link
Many said early on of this Virus. Strin

From: spike78
16-Jan-22
Lol yeah the Republicans are going to do that as much as they investigated Hillary when they won back office! All smoke and mirrors move along folks nothing to see here.

16-Jan-22

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo

From: trublucolo
16-Jan-22
Ike, that belongs on the humor page ;-)

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