Defective Hoyt limb pockets?
Equipment
Today I drew back my 2004 ProTec and heard a loud pop. One of the pieces of plastic (yes, PLASTIC) at the very tip of the riser (where it touches the limbs, see right side of the attached photo) had exploded. Half of it landed about 20 feet away; I couldn't find the other half. The broken piece is also in the photo. The bow is now unusable.
Then I looked at my 2000 Accutec. Its limb pockets are solid METAL (see left side of photo). Those pockets would last a million years.
The ProTec only had 4,600 shots on it. My dealer has ordered four more of the plastic rocker pieces. (Might as well replace all of them since I already have the bow apart).
This is an Achilles heel IMHO, and it would not be something you'd want to have break on you while hunting or competing. It seems as if Hoyt has taken a step backwards with this new design, a design that started a few years ago and continues with their most recent bows.
Has this happened to any of you? (I'm not trying to bash Hoyt, because I've owned quite a few of them over the years. But I am concerned.)
BTM not to belabor a point but it appears to me that this is an easy fix to a minor issue. Any componet on a bow can have a flaw in it especially a plastic casting. The fact that it was an easy fix only demonstrates the quality of the product. I too have shot Hoyts for years and I have a couple that have well over 10,000 shots through them and didn't have a single issue with either one. I would hardly call this an achilles heel in that nobody died and you were able to resolve the issue. If you were in the field it would be a problem but could be easily fixed with a shim until you could get to an archery shop a broken string would present much more of an issue. If this were a major issue for Hoyt they would have changed it because that's the type of company they are just like Mathews or Bowtech. Sorry it happened to you and glad you got it fixed.
It's not exactly an easy fix, especially if it had occured in the woods. Right now I'm waiting for Hoyt to get new pieces, then I have to drive to the dealer to get them, then take the bow apart, and replace them. As I mentioned in my original post, this sure wouldn't happen on the older pockets. The fact remains that they have a plastic component in a high stress area. I've owned (or now own) Dartons, PSE, Mathews, and Bowtech, and none of them have a similar arrangement.
BTM if you were in the woods and would make a shim out of wood and drive it in the area on the back side of your limb it would still be supported by the bolt and the limb it would still fill the space the bushing fills and support your limb in the pocket. Your bow would be shootable not for a bunch of shots most likely but shootable to complete your hunt. Then you could get to a shop to get it fixed when time allows. It's not like a limb bolt snapped in two or your string broke or a limb broke, and you didn't have a bow period on a hunt. You are correct in that it wouldn't happen on the older models but it still isn't the end of the world. Hell I've changed bow strings in the field w/o a press in a remote area and still shot my game and came back out. Necessity is the mother of invention. Nothings perfect and this is hardly the major design flaw you seem so intent on making it out to be. Just the fact your shop had to order them would lead me to believe it most likely doesn't happen very often or else they would have some in stock. I also realize that some people can't have the confidence in a product after something like this happens and if you'd feel better buying a new bow your peace of mind is worth far more than any bow you will ever shoot.
You're right: This experience has cost me my faith in the newer Hoyts. When I go into the field I don't want to wonder where I can find a sliver of hardwood and a rock to pound it into the back of the limb. Under the stress of the limb pressing aginst the pocket, I don't know if I could pound a shim into there far enough. Nor do I know if the bow will shoot the same afterward. This crude field operation will probably also gouge the heck out of the limbs and the riser. Why go through all this trouble when I can buy any number of bows that don't have a vulnerable piece of plastic in an area of extremely high stress? (Hence the Achilles heel comment.)
Its also hard to concentrate on making a shot when you're worried about a high velocity piece of hard plastic hitting you in the eye. (One of those pieces whistled close by my face, which is not something I ever want to worry about again.)
With all that money being spent on Advertising guess you have to cut back on Quality.JMO.Parts that are in high stress areas like you show should be made of metal.
My wife drove over my old PSE at the limb pocket. It snapped the corner off of the pocket and dented the limb. No real harm done. Still shootable today. How it happened is another story. Plastic has no place in a high stress area.
the original question was asked has this ever happened to anyone else.
to date nobody has said yes.
i understand that it happened to you and that would be enough for you to never risk it again. the reality though is it has neither been an issue for hoyt (according to customer service) or others who shoot hoyt and frequent this site. I shoot only hoyt and have for 22 years.
it may have been a defective component as opposed to a a defective design. even if metal a defective piece of metal could fracture.
being a machinist I would make new ones out of aluminum or bronze, this would stop any future problems in the same area. Doesn't look like a very difficult part to replicate, why don't you bring it to a machine shop and see if they can make you a couple for a reasonable price. Just a thought.
Things happen and sorry for your inconvienence but this is FAR from an achilles heel. I've got 2003 Cybertecs that have tens of thousands of shots on them with absolutely no problem.
25000 shots on an 01 Vortec at 84lbs with a 370 grain arrow(this is before I was aware of the 5gr./lb rule)and no problem.
2002 Protec with more shots than your '04, NO problems.
2005 Ultratec with at least a few thousand shots, no problem.
New 38 Pro, maybe only a thousand or so shots, no problem.
All have the plastic rockers.
The "plastic" in question, I am sure isn't your run-of-the-mill, make-a-kids-toy type of "plastic". You have to realize that "plastics" are all over in todays age. If you want something 100% metal, you're going to be lugging around a heavy piece of machinery in the field. More than likely, your "plastic" piece is a nylon composite, dylrin, or something of the like - more than sufficient to hold up to the stresses put upon it for millions of shots from your bow. I am heavily into the bass fishing industry, and hear the complaint about fishing reels being made of "plastic" all the time - but most people that use them don't know exactly what their reels are made of either. Technology is fantastic. There had to be a good reason that Hoyt put those pieces there - and made them from the material they are made of - Hoyt has too much riding on their designs to put some cheap substitute in there - and the reprecussions of doing some "cost cutting" on something as dangerous as a compound bow, I'm sure would deter that. I am 99.999% sure that your problem was one that will not rear it's head again. If you still aren't sure, I'd be happy to take that "junk" off your hands anyday of the week, and twice on Sunday. Since your faith in it is shot, I can pick it up cheap, right??? : ) Seriously - the only true way to be 100% sure of your equipment holding up in the field on an extended hunt (in my book) is to carry a recurve or longbow with an extra string with nock already attached, in a bag. And in your backpack... a spare takedown 3 piece recurve. : ) And even then, I'm not so sure....
All the best, Glenn
If you want something 100% metal your going to be lugging arround a heavy peice of metal in the field.---The parts in question that could be made of some type of metal would not weigh enough to tell the difference.If it happened to me i would always wonder if it would happen again.His older Bow had metal bushings.It's true that most things are made of composits nowadays and it's mostly because it's cheaper to make which in return means savings for the company's.IMO
I've owned older Hoyts than his Accutec that had "plastic" rockers in the limb pockets.
I know the small pieces wouldn't make a lot of weight difference - I'm just stating that if EVERYTHING was made of metal instead of plastic, that bows and other items would be heavier than they are now.
Your statement of "if it happened to me, I would always wonder if it would happen again", makes me think what you would do if you had a string or cable break in your face. Would you give up archery all together? There's no getting around a string on a bow.... so what would you do then? Things happen.
If you are scared of it, then by all means - I understand your hesitation in using it again. But I don't think this is a reoccuring problem for Hoyt. In fact, of all my years shooting a Hoyt, it's the first time I've ever heard of that piece breaking. That's not to say it IS the first one - it's just so uncommon of a problem, that you don't normally hear about it.
And it's not always "cheaper" for a company to have things molded out of plastics. If the company already OWNS milling machines, which I am 100% sure Hoyt does, adding into the equation MOLDING machines for plastics may ADD to the price, not decrease it. I believe it's in the best interests of both the consumer and the company, that Hoyt made those pieces out of the material they did. I may have tons of people that disagree with me, but if you think of it from the standpoint of "we already own this machine... and we would have to buy this machine to make plastic pieces", then things don't quite look as "cheap", do they? Just something to think about.
I'd be more worried about a bow company that has BRAND NEW bows blow up in a customers face (notice I didn't mention any particular companies - though I know of 2 personally, and have heard of several others) at the dealer due to defective limbs, than a 3 year old bow that has a small plastic piece break off.
My offer for the ProTec still stands - If it fits my 27" draw length, I'll buy it "as is", fix it, and I'm sure I'd enjoy it. As long as the price is "right", I'm sure I'll be happy with it, just as I am with my ViperTec.
All the best, Glenn
From an engineers viewpoint:
The delrin is self lubricating and strong as all get out
The screw was over tightened causing the part to fail from stress
Metal has differential expansion based on temp, "plastic, the new stuff" is very stable and eliminates a squeak point versus metal which would still require abushing to eliminate noise or lubrication.
Not a sermon, just a thought as the local preacher says!
Pat
PS: I have owned 5 Hoyts, no problems.
The same damn thing happened to me but on an Hoyt Pro elite 2011. The limb pocket rocker piece on the upper limb broke into and flew apart ..WHAT the ????? Where can I order these rockers?
The same damn thing happened to me but on an Hoyt Pro elite 2011. The limb pocket rocker piece on the upper limb broke into and flew apart ..WHAT the ????? Where can I order these rockers?
The manufacturer would be a good place to call and order from
The old Bowtech Destroyers are the same way, plastic limb pads. The limb pocket retainers are also some sort of plastic. And yes, they do fail.
14 years of being drug around and something finally happens to it and you're upset? I have a hard time getting a 50k truck to last that long with scheduled maintenance.
Interesting to see this thread bubble to the surface again. I couldn't help but chuckle when Hoyt changed to a "non-plastic" limb pocket design four or five years ago. Maybe a coincidence, or maybe the complaints (and perhaps claims?) are rising as those old rockers get on in years.
How many people are still shooting 2004 model bows?Sometimes it is not the mileage on the object, but the age of it.
Hoyt used that design well past 2004. (As I just mentioned, they didn't revise it until four or five years ago, so tens of thousands of them are probably still being used today.) I didn't mention it in my original 2007 post, but one of the flying jagged pieces hit me in the face only an inch from my eye. After something like that, one can't help from being cautious about what bow he shoots!
