SG2
Discuss interactive Bloodtrail 25
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
RUPE 17-Oct-08
Tajue17 17-Oct-08
MontanaDave 17-Oct-08
ARROW THROWER 18-Oct-08
Bridgewater 18-Oct-08
JTV 18-Oct-08
Xprez 18-Oct-08
Gary73 19-Oct-08
Boris 19-Oct-08
txhunter58 19-Oct-08
kota-man 19-Oct-08
kurtinozaukee 19-Oct-08
elkman 19-Oct-08
Hollywood 19-Oct-08
hobbes 19-Oct-08
RUPE 19-Oct-08
Hollywood 19-Oct-08
Bou'bound 19-Oct-08
Ryanw 19-Oct-08
12yards 19-Oct-08
RTH 19-Oct-08
Ak Ultratec 19-Oct-08
BigWoods 19-Oct-08
PAGuardian 19-Oct-08
patience2spare 19-Oct-08
DeerSlayer1798 19-Oct-08
Northwoods 19-Oct-08
Buckstopper 19-Oct-08
Bone Collector 19-Oct-08
kota-man 19-Oct-08
Hollywood 19-Oct-08
zcmc53 19-Oct-08
TEmbry 19-Oct-08
Muzzy 20-Oct-08
Tunames 20-Oct-08
hawg 20-Oct-08
ansci 20-Oct-08
Bogey 20-Oct-08
Bx3 20-Oct-08
walkerhound 20-Oct-08
RTH 20-Oct-08
Hoyt Shooter 20-Oct-08
AZBUGLER 20-Oct-08
Davy C 20-Oct-08
ORARCHER 20-Oct-08
NothingUnder150 20-Oct-08
James Westfall 20-Oct-08
CJ Gregory 20-Oct-08
steve 20-Oct-08
Q2XL 20-Oct-08
fuzzy 20-Oct-08
passing... thru 20-Oct-08
James Westfall 20-Oct-08
unsuccessful-ED 20-Oct-08
Super Slam 20-Oct-08
Boris 20-Oct-08
x-man 20-Oct-08
12yards 20-Oct-08
The Rooster 20-Oct-08
Joebowhunter 20-Oct-08
Teeton 20-Oct-08
patience2spare 20-Oct-08
gerks 20-Oct-08
wolfgang510 20-Oct-08
krueger 20-Oct-08
hobbes 20-Oct-08
SteelyEyes 21-Oct-08
Chris in PA 21-Oct-08
Bou'bound 21-Oct-08
smokey 21-Oct-08
chief400 21-Oct-08
Q2XL 21-Oct-08
Duke 21-Oct-08
hobbes 21-Oct-08
Rick Barbee 21-Oct-08
x-man 21-Oct-08
ajb438 21-Oct-08
Rick Barbee 21-Oct-08
elmer 21-Oct-08
HUNT MAN 21-Oct-08
HookerzTackle.com 21-Oct-08
x-man 21-Oct-08
AMA 168 21-Oct-08
Deer_Slugger 21-Oct-08
JERSEY BOB 21-Oct-08
hunt fan 21-Oct-08
The Rooster 21-Oct-08
zcmc53 21-Oct-08
elkstalker 21-Oct-08
Rubline 21-Oct-08
kjwhfsd 21-Oct-08
Shifty 21-Oct-08
The Rooster 21-Oct-08
elmer 21-Oct-08
winner 21-Oct-08
winner 21-Oct-08
winner 21-Oct-08
Yendor 21-Oct-08
flinger1 21-Oct-08
flinger1 21-Oct-08
hobbes 21-Oct-08
ruger109 22-Oct-08
fuzzy 22-Oct-08
Davy C 22-Oct-08
Black Wolf 22-Oct-08
DoubleBrow 22-Oct-08
Stekewood 22-Oct-08
SERBIANSHARK 22-Oct-08
fuzzy 22-Oct-08
BOWNBIRDHNTR 22-Oct-08
DanL 22-Oct-08
James Westfall 22-Oct-08
Bou'bound 22-Oct-08
The Rooster 23-Oct-08
nijimasu 23-Oct-08
chief400 23-Oct-08
Stekewood 23-Oct-08
Bucks_n_Gobblers 23-Oct-08
ducksoup 23-Oct-08
HerdManager @ Work 23-Oct-08
hardkill 23-Oct-08
leftybearfan 23-Oct-08
stickflngr 23-Oct-08
got_elk? 23-Oct-08
penseeker2 23-Oct-08
Joebowhunter 23-Oct-08
The Rooster 23-Oct-08
Glunt 23-Oct-08
Timbow 23-Oct-08
sitt5858 24-Oct-08
Mr Wapiti 24-Oct-08
MarcusArielius 24-Oct-08
fuzzy 24-Oct-08
fuzzy 24-Oct-08
Skeeter 24-Oct-08
Davy C 24-Oct-08
samman 24-Oct-08
The Yode 24-Oct-08
one shot 24-Oct-08
Elk Hunter 24-Oct-08
DMurphy 24-Oct-08
Stan NJ 24-Oct-08
nijimasu 24-Oct-08
Yendor 24-Oct-08
Yendor 24-Oct-08
fuzzy 24-Oct-08
DaleM 24-Oct-08
Canteathorns 25-Oct-08
153 26-Oct-08
Slick Head Hunter 26-Oct-08
Jeff270 26-Oct-08
nijimasu 26-Oct-08
Greg Kush 27-Oct-08
Greg Kush 27-Oct-08
Bullshooter 27-Oct-08
mike@optionpc.com 27-Oct-08
goose 27-Oct-08
crashcarl 28-Oct-08
153 28-Oct-08
Stekewood 28-Oct-08
rastaman 30-Oct-08
fuzzy 30-Oct-08
catfish 02-Nov-08
Sarge 04-Nov-08
Bullshooter 06-Nov-08
GregE 06-Nov-08
Bullshooter 07-Nov-08
From: RUPE
17-Oct-08
I know the feeling Pat. My youngest daughter killed her first deer 2 years ago. We got it all on camera too.

From: Tajue17
17-Oct-08
this is cool and I did the first clue,,, what weigth bow and what type (or just cut diameter) broadhead did he use?

From: MontanaDave
17-Oct-08
trying to cheat are we?? haha

18-Oct-08
I picked the correct answer but I think I coulda zipped one in.

From: Bridgewater
18-Oct-08
I bet he was really excited. Tell him for me I am really happy for him. I know you are a proud papa.

From: JTV
18-Oct-08
About time !! :0) Thanks.....Jeff

From: Xprez
18-Oct-08
Got it, but it must be the camera angle as I thought it was quatrtering to, not quartering away.

From: Gary73
19-Oct-08
Got it wrong, I never realised it was moving and I think I could of put a good shot on that one.

From: Boris
19-Oct-08
Pat, I know how proud you are of him. My son took his first deer with a rifle last year at the age of 12. It is a 6pt. that scores 125" The deer was aged at 4 1/2 yrs. old. Yes, it field dressed at 183 lbs. My son is not into bowhunting yet.

From: txhunter58
19-Oct-08
Glad your son got one!

That said, I would pick "D" as a shot IF I was 3 feet to the right of the camera (as you said your son was), but since we are told to choose based on camera angle, D would not have been where I would shoot. Too far back in my opinion even given the angle. 1/2 way between A and D would be ideal in my mind. I subscribe to BB's theory that we generally shoot a little far back.

From: kota-man
19-Oct-08
i'm with txhunter...When you said the shooter was 3 feet to the right, I thought D immediately...when you said use the camera angle, I went with b for the very reason txhunter says...Congrats to your son!

19-Oct-08
I have to agree. With description B seemed like the logical shot placement not D.

From: elkman
19-Oct-08
I went back and looked at the photo again, it looks to me like A is too far forward, B is too high, and D is too far back. C is a little lower than 1/3 of the body depth but it looks like the exit hole would be the far shoulder, accounting for the fact the deer may start to duck, C appears to be best entry though I would like it a little higher. Ron

From: Hollywood
19-Oct-08
LOL, I would've chosen none of the above, but my confusion was, interpret the photo from 3 feet right or use the photo. It says for this example "use the photo" and then reiterates that the shot is from 3 feet right.

It's like a "both-ways" Obama speech. LOL!

From: hobbes
19-Oct-08
I don't comment on these very often, maybe never, but D is definitely too far back for the viewpoint I see on my monitor. The left lung would be missed completely and exit would be a few inches behind the off shoulder. At best that would be liver and off lung. A killing shot for sure, but not my choice of aimpoints. A shot centered between the choices would be a much better choice (dead center left lung and front portion of right lung). I do not believe there is any way D would take out both lungs.

From: RUPE
19-Oct-08
D is an absurd choice given the information. I would have picked "D" had you not said use camera angle. I always aim for the OPPOSITE leg and "b" is the only shot that will hit the opposite leg although it's a tad high.

But D is a liver shot from the "camera" angle.

Now I remember why I rarely do these. :)

From: Hollywood
19-Oct-08
RUPE, glad to hear you too were on board for B. As high entry/low exit hole would leave a great trail and it appears to be a double lunger, although still a squeek forward. However I've always used the "visualize a line through the deer to the opposite front leg" as a guide-line, head on shot excluded of course.

A is too far forward and the leg back threatens to ruin the shot with the deer's Humerus getting in the way and the edge of the scapula is in the straight down position.

C is way too low(unless the deer jumps the string and drops to meet the arrow), but would probably kill the deer, bloodtrail would be light, very long and the deer would die of asphyxiation not hemmorrhaging. The deer would probably try to roll in the mud somewhere to clog the hole or lay on the wound to make it easier to breathe until it eventually died.

The angle of the photo doesn't convince me that D's a good choice looks like gut/liver/diaphragm and back of one lung at best.

Good discussion.

From: Bou'bound
19-Oct-08
D was clearly the correct answer. The angle is the key. That shot will take out everything in there.

From: Ryanw
19-Oct-08
D is the way to go, it was the BEST choice, maybe i would aim further ahead a bit, but it seemed that D is the best.

From: 12yards
19-Oct-08
No way would I choose D on that deer. B is a great killing shot. I would actually shoot between B and C (If I remember the photo right).

From: RTH
19-Oct-08
D is a gut shot, one lung maybe two but more gut than anything. Sure it will kill but I'd just as soon not deal with the stomach contents. B is a double lung, C is a low lung/heart shot, both are a little high/low for my taste but still clean killers without opening the stomach.

19-Oct-08
D may be the best shot for the shooter 3' to the right...but not for that picture. I chose B as well based on the description of where the shooter was and how you WERE NOT supposed to use that, but rather the picture. Seems most people agree....

From: BigWoods
19-Oct-08
The answer is "B." No question about it.

From: PAGuardian
19-Oct-08
I agree with a lot of the above posters...D is not the best shot from the camera's perspective.

19-Oct-08
I saw D from the camera angle as the off-side lung at best... probably guts and liver and a very long blood trail. I'm a BB convert! and think that punching through at A (I actually like a few inches right of A but not D) cuts all the major arteries leading from the heart and the nearside lung.

Never-the-less: these things are always fun and the shot of Pat Jr with his first deer will be great I'm sure!

19-Oct-08
B would be fine. Actually, i would aim exactly in the middle of A B and C. Shot a deer there last night from a similar angle, arrow exited just in from of the opposite shoulder and the deer only went 35 yds. seems to be good location

From: Northwoods
19-Oct-08
D was definitely not an obvious choice IMO.

I wasn't particularly fond of any of the shots. However, I felt B was best. I would have shot for C, but up a bit (as C in the picture at that angle was far too low). D, at the angle the deer is at, looks like a clear gut, liver, offside lung shot at best.

From: Buckstopper
19-Oct-08
I have to respectfully disagree with "D" as well based on the information given.

19-Oct-08
Like most have already said, and I agree, that "D" seems to far back for the best vital hit. When shooting at a quatering away deer, you would never want the arrow to come out behind the off shoulder! "B" was my choice and I will continue aiming there on the deer that I take...maybe just a hair lower, but "B" is it!!

From: kota-man
19-Oct-08
If you are scoring at home give yourself "6" if you picked B...:)

From: Hollywood
19-Oct-08
"If you are scoring at home give yourself "6" if you picked B...:)"

LOL!!!!

I wouldn't have time to give myself 6, I'd be too busy dragging a deer out of the woods.

From: zcmc53
19-Oct-08
hmmmm, i chose C due to the deer probably jumping the string a bit. however, i wouldn't put the arrow in any of those shots and would put it right in the middle of all those points, if i remember the picture right.

19-Oct-08
Pat why shoot a deer in the liver when you can take out both lungs and possibly top of the heart...

couple inches below B is the shot....

19-Oct-08
D would be an ok shot in the video (clue 3)...but in the still photo on clue 2 the buck was not quartering away nearly enough to even clip a lung with shot D (from the cam. perspective)....

From: TEmbry
19-Oct-08
I thought B was the best of the choices on clue 2 as well.

I missed clue 3, because I chose vitals obviously hit as the false statement....it was a very quick clip, but it seemed the arrow got very poor penetration and the shot placement was a bit far back on an already quartering away deer...

But I wasnt there, the deer is obviously dead and found long before the post was made.

Congrats to the hunter for his first bowkill.

From: Muzzy
20-Oct-08
I agree also that the deer looked to be hit far back on the 3rd clue. Camera angle is deceptive. Also, the clip was quick. I replayed it several times and figured he'd be lucky to get 1 organ.

From: Tunames
20-Oct-08
Same here D is obviously wrong. I'd aim inbetween ab&c

From: hawg
20-Oct-08
I don't like disagreeing with ya Pat, but you got this one wrong! None of the spots are ideal. Above spot C is the best. Spot D = loooooong, time consuming recovery if the deer is recovered at all. IMO

From: ansci
20-Oct-08
I would have to agree with Hawg, none of your selections in #2 are a good shot. I would aim forward of D and above C.

From: Bogey
20-Oct-08
Yeah - I got it right but I thought between C and D was the proper shot.

I factored in that the deer might be angling a little more to the left and was going to leave to the right... lucky guess once I saw the video.

From: Bx3
20-Oct-08
B would hit both lungs. D is definately a gut/liver shot from the camera's perspective. I dont think D would even hit a lung. That is a smaller doe and the lungs are considerably small. I just shot a doe on saturday about that size that was a little more broadside but not much. The entry was about 2" lower than B. It was a complete pass thru that hit both lungs and clipped an artery on the heart. She went about 50 yards and feel over.

If Jr. was 3' to the right of you and hit D then it would be a very good kill shot. But, from the camera's perspective, it is not the best available.

From: walkerhound
20-Oct-08
Lame

From: RTH
20-Oct-08
I think I would rather take the shot in the first picture than shot D at that angle. But considering low poundage/limited penetration I rather err toward gut than shoulder. I still don't think D is the best answer given the camera angle. B & C are both on the very outer edge of being excellent shots, it's a bogus question IMO.

From: Hoyt Shooter
20-Oct-08
D for shooter angle.

B or C for picture angle.

I chose B.

;^0

From: AZBUGLER
20-Oct-08
Glad I'm not the only one. "D" would be my 2nd to last choice. "B" is clearly the best of these, although it is a tad high. It also depends on the downward angle based on how high the stand is. Looks to me like B would be a double lunger. D would get liver and right side lung IF it penetrated enough to punch through the guts first.

From: Davy C
20-Oct-08
As usual I take exception with the way Pat words his questions. "no shot here" cannot be a correct answer to #1 when you ask "Take this shot why?" I also cannot agree with D for question 2. The goal should be a double lung shot. Why would you aim for the back edge of the left lung? I always take the shot that gives me the most margine for error. In this case I would say B is probably aiming for the front edge of the right lung so B is just as good as D if not better since the it centers the left lung which is the closest, which for a 12 year old boy (and not know how much Ke he is shooting) would have a slight advantage.

From: ORARCHER
20-Oct-08
No way is "D" correct IMO. The question said pic from the CAMERA angle not the shooters and also said pick the impact point not angle based on a pass through or complete penetration.

20-Oct-08
Hi Guys, I am new to this site and these bloodtrails.

I've shot over 200 deer and simply can't believe what I'm reading above. A and B are wounds, B is right at the shoulder blade. C is too low and risky for an impact from a stand. That deer is angled pretty hard away as you can tell by the right front leg and the shoulder blade position. Also the back legs show you a clear angle of his tail. The best shot is D. It's not the shot I would take but it's definitely the best of the four choices. It will not get 2 lungs, but it will be hard to get two lungs on that angle anyway. The first thing I noticed was the offside leg and that is clearly where an arrow will exit on impact D.

Go ahead and beat me up. But I would take that shot over the other 3 all day long. You will get gut, but you should hammer the liver, right lung and perhaps the heart. That deer is down in 50 yards all day long. The way that deer is scrunched up causes a lot of guys to shoot way too far forward. Sorry, but I'm with Pat on this one.

After watching the video seems to me the little guy will have no problem getting that buck. My son is 2 years away so this is really cool to watch.

20-Oct-08
B is in the boiler room. D is guts.

From: CJ Gregory
20-Oct-08
I would have chosen "c". Just my opinion. Actually my elevation would have been directly between "B" & "C". I have never hunted from a tree stand so I don't have enough experience other than what I have learned on elk, moose and mule deet I have stalked.

From: steve
20-Oct-08
It looked like a nice day to me .

20-Oct-08

=>>>>Elkiller======>'s embedded Photo
=>>>>Elkiller======>'s embedded Photo
exaggerated bone and lung size...still not seeing D

From: Q2XL
20-Oct-08
That deer shouldn't go too far, but that is going to be a messy gutting job.

From: fuzzy
20-Oct-08
I also picked the lesser of two weevils. My weevil lost :-(

20-Oct-08
Why shoot guts if you have a choice? For me B was the right choice. However, we can now see that Pat Jr. took D and even a little further back then the D we had to choose from. I guess guts are now considered "vital" lol.

20-Oct-08
Go ahead and shoot 'em in the guts, they'll die every time!

20-Oct-08
i also thought d was to far back from the angle that is the cameras angle, just my opinion though.

From: Super Slam
20-Oct-08
What's his drawlength? That arrow looks like it's almost 4ft. long!

From: Boris
20-Oct-08
I hit a Doe in the same spot, but, on the right side. The shot was about 25yds. The arrow went through the top of the stomach, diaphram, caught part of rt. lung, sliced the lt. side of the heart, caught part of the lt. lung and exited between the brisket and lt. shoulder. Deer went about 30yds. an run head on into a tree. The blood trail was a mess.

From: x-man
20-Oct-08
I answered "D" not because it is the correct choice, but because I've done enough of these now to know Pat always shoots 4"-6" too far back. It's been that way since the first BTC(remember that one?). If you draw a line between A & D, and hit that line halfway, you'll have what I believe to be the best placement based on the camera angle. D was a good choice based on shooter angle though.

I'll have to wait till tomorrow and hope for a better clip of the shot. The clip is jumpy on my computer. I don't have a view of the shot at all. It skips from the deer feeding, to the sound of him running away. Is every one having that trouble? or just my relic.

From: 12yards
20-Oct-08
Pat, Pat, Pat! Face the music! 61 archers can't be wrong!;)

From: The Rooster
20-Oct-08
I think B is the best angle, but I chose D because I thought I was supposed to choose the best shot for the shooter, not the camera.

From: Joebowhunter
20-Oct-08
I chose D based on shooter's position 3 ft to the right of the camera. Lucky for me I didn't read the last sentence before I chose D.

From: Teeton
20-Oct-08
Holly Carp: I've been on here for years. And I got my post pulled. What I do? :(

20-Oct-08
anyone else not able to see the arrow's impact? All I got was the sound of the hit. I watched that thing several times and was never able to see the arrow in the screen.

From: gerks
20-Oct-08
D looked great to me - 36/36 so far...

Gerks

From: wolfgang510
20-Oct-08
I agree with everything "nothingunder150" said. D looks good to me and I think the shot was about perfect considering the angle. I think some of the disagreement is personal preference. The question is: Are you the type of hunter that when a deer is broadside you aim for the heart and risk hitting the shoulder or are you the type that aim for the center of the kill zone? Just because a given angle presents the possibility to knock out both lungs and the heart does not mean you should try for that perfect shot leaving yourself only an inch for error. For me it is all about percentages and leaving yourself the largest margin for error. Looks like Pat did exactly that. Congratulations!

From: krueger
20-Oct-08
Pat please explain why you wouldn't 6 hours on a clear gut shot when the previous question says one vital organ was hit? That shot looked bad to me, near the hind leg in the guts with maybe 1 lung or the liver at best. Isn't it the best bet to always wait with a marginal hit, one hour might be okay most times, but it isn't forcasted to rain and that shot clearly was guts. My push your luck, a dead deer won't move.

From: hobbes
20-Oct-08
Largest margin of error? This is discussion purposes only, no bitter argument, but what about a margin of error to the right of D. Do we only look for a margin of error toward the shoulder blade. D is not center of the lungs. D won't take out the left lung at all and will only take out the back of the right lung at the camera angle. Anymore right and the diaphram won't even be pierced and you'll be lucky to take out the liver. That deer is not quartering that hard. I wouldn't shoot there unless I was almost shooting over the hip and I don't care for that shot either.

From my viewpoint D exits several inches behind the far shoulder. The arrow path would be no different than a quartering to shot from the opposite side that hits several inches behind the shoulder and takes out guts on the way out. If that angle was presented, everyone would be crying foul.

While gut shot and liver shot deer can be recovered, I'll venture to guess that a lot of them are not recovered due to the lack of tracking ability and patience.

From: SteelyEyes
21-Oct-08
I agree with the choices on the blood trail so far.

I choose D because it would hit liver, diaphram at an angle (important), and the off side lung. None of the others looked as lethal.

I also think an hour is fine because a slashed diaphram, although not an organ, will cause the deer to die a lot quicker than either a liver or one lung alone would. As the deer tries to breathe it will just pump blood around between the abdomen and chest cavity instead of through the tissues. They don't generally go very far like that. I shot a nice sized bull elk like that in 2001 and he didn't even make it 40 yards before he had to lay down. He was dead in twenty minutes. I watched him die with my binos.

From: Chris in PA
21-Oct-08
Hope I don't loose stars or get kicked off the bowsite for this. Here goes. Pat, I love the Bowsite and you seem like a real stand up guy. Unfortunately this competition is all about if you think like Pat does. So far I have 9 points. 3 eggs and a 9. For question #1 allow me to assure you that the shot through the branches was very doable. If the deer was still and not spooky the angle was fine. I'd have taken that shot, after alll it is a trailing competition and we knew the deer had to be hit. For question #2 B is clearly the best shot IF you are shooting from where the camera is positioned. Which was precisely where we were asked to refence from. If we would have been shooting 3 feet to the right of the camera D would have been good. From our vantage point D misses the left lung, only clips the right one and has no chance of getting any heart or arteries. Question #3 is probably the most biased and blatantly wrong of all of the bloodtrailing competition "correct" answers of all time. Allow me to explian. If a deer is facing North, anything to the South of the diaphragm is guts. To punch through the diaphragm means you must go through the guts. That's right. A liver hit means it was hit in the guts. If one of the answers was "the deer was hit only in the stomach" that would have been incorrect. Don't interchange guts and stomach, the stomach is an organ while the "guts" refer to the body cavity on the other side of the diaphragm from the lungs. But considering the shooter was to the right of the camera the arrow had to enter through the guts before going into the chest cavity. At that angle to enter through the rib and not hit the liver would have meant only clipping one lung and almost missing the deer entirely. Question #4 I knew the answer was supposed to be 1 hour. Even without all of the clues. How many of us make a decision on wait or not w/o the arrow? Looking at the arrow after the shot is the #1 piece of info that I need on making my decision to trail or back off. What color was the blood? What color was the hair? How much blood was there? How many bubbles in the blood? What time of day is it? How warm is the air temperature? Did the deer run off a good ways or did it sound like it ran a short distance and pulled up? Did you hear it fall?No way I could make my decision w/o knowing the answers to those questions.

Congrats on a fine 1st deer. Hopefully that is the 1st of several for the young man.

Flame away guys.

From: Bou'bound
21-Oct-08
guys it a game for crying out loud relax!

From: smokey
21-Oct-08
I would have waited only one hour but tried to outguess the game and thought they would have waited 6 hours. Since it is angled the arrow would definitely hit the liver and in my experience no need to wait 6 hours. I wish I would have taken my first choice.

Nice to see when young folks hunt and get the first deer.

From: chief400
21-Oct-08
Clue #1 Branches and leaves in the way, this is a no brainier especially for a kid. He makes a good choice.

Clue #2 READ IT DON”T READ INTO IT. best impact point from the photo and the shooter is 3 feet right of the camera that puts the arrow right in the boiler with D. The opposite leg is clearly visible also.

Clue #3 You can see the arrow hit right at D and the angle is right into the vitals, no time for a drink here dead soon.

Clue #4 Vital hit 1 hour to retrieval time this is taught in a basic bow hunter safety class. Next!

From: Q2XL
21-Oct-08
The only issue I have with only waiting 1 hour is I don't know if there is going to be 2 holes in the deer. Since it is a kid shooting, I'm assuming the arrow is somewhere around 26 inches. From the video it is not clear whether or not you are going to have 2 holes. If you only have a hole from the entry wound, I wouldn't think you are going to get too much blood as the guts would plug the hole. I would wait until I thought the deer was stone dead and then take up the track.

Obviousely the correct move would be to examine the crime scene and use the video to support the evidence you find. If there is indeed a 2nd hole, there should be plenty of blood and a dead deer not too far away.

From: Duke
21-Oct-08
I'm in disagreement with at least 3 out of the 4 questions right now... Sure, it probably worked out as the deer was tagged, but not "textbook" by any means...

That being said, tell your son congrats, Pat. 1st deer is a huge accomplishment!

From: hobbes
21-Oct-08
Should have stated the same in my first post:

Congrats on the first deer. It is an event that will not be forgotten.

From: Rick Barbee
21-Oct-08
I answered #3 as an obvious fatal hit, and got "ZERO" points.

Come on ! I had to really LOL at that.

I watched it in super slow, and I can guarantee it was a fatal hit even if I did not know the outcome.

From: x-man
21-Oct-08
Hey Rick, read the question. It's asking for the UNTRUE answer.

From: ajb438
21-Oct-08
yeah B is deffinatley the answer i chose

From: Rick Barbee
21-Oct-08
OH CRAP !!!!!

Talk about missing the boat !!!!!!

From: elmer
21-Oct-08
I"ve got all 4 right so far! That's a first for me. I guess I've got a bunch more chances to mess up that 1st ever perfect score.

But it's a fun game!

From: HUNT MAN
21-Oct-08
that looks like a gut shot to me i would wait 6 hours or more.HUNT

21-Oct-08
Pat, I have never messed around with these before, but I had to get in on it. On question #3 You ask for the untrue answer, I selected Hit in Guts. As from watching the footage, I personally thought that the shot was close to perfect, and the arrow should angle up into the chest cavity, taking out all that is needed to drop her. I got an ole goose egg on that one, as you stated the correct answer was deer would head for water. I do not know what water, or swamp was around that area, and it was quite possible the the deer could expire just about anywhere. Anyhow just venting to you, congrats on your son's deer, I am extremely happy for the both of you. Tell him excellent shot, and great arrow placement. The best to you and your family.

Jason Cuda "Huntin' HARDCORE Video Productions"

From: x-man
21-Oct-08
Hey Pat, you need to proof-read your correct answer response for question #5

C is right to left, D is left to right. You've got that backwards in your explanation.

From: AMA 168
21-Oct-08
Help....How can you tell which way she was traveling?

From: Deer_Slugger
21-Oct-08
Right X-man

I read the answer explanation and it said the deer was obviously moving left to right, well i choose D which is left to right and got a 0. Explanation??????????

From: JERSEY BOB
21-Oct-08
What X-Man said! But it serves you right for sliding that trick question (all of the above except...) in earlier. I HATE questions like that!!!!!

From: hunt fan
21-Oct-08
same here maybe I have been tracking the wrong way all these years

From: The Rooster
21-Oct-08
Wow, only 8 of us have perfect 45/45. I don't think I've ever gone 45/45, let alone be in the top 8, even if for only a short time.

From: zcmc53
21-Oct-08
isnt the deer traveling left to right in the picture??? i put D cause that would be from left to right, but it said it was wrong and he said that C was left to right which it wasnt in the arrows......i hope that makes sense???

From: elkstalker
21-Oct-08
hmm, I guess I don't know my left from my right...

From: Rubline
21-Oct-08
If D is wrong, which I now know that it is, I have a headache over this challenge question!!!!!!

From: kjwhfsd
21-Oct-08
Dang I need to stand on my head for that one. That is the only way c is left to right.

From: Shifty
21-Oct-08
Same here I chose left to right and it was right, but I was wrong. Must be a East Coast thing.

From: The Rooster
21-Oct-08

The Rooster's embedded Photo
The Rooster's embedded Photo
Forget what the text in the explanation says, just look at the direction that drop of blood splattered. Obviously moving from right to left, AKA option C. No excuse to get that one wrong. It was so obvious if it were a snake it would've jumped up and bit you.

From: elmer
21-Oct-08
I chose d...perfect score no more:0) Stupid Me. The deer was originally going to my left, so why did I choose going to my right??? DUH.

From: winner
21-Oct-08
sounds like some cheatin is goin on reading the answer before really lookin at the pics. there is only two blood spots that I found that will help you in the pic but both of them very clearly are moving from right to left using the arrows will get you a correct answer using pats answer will get you an incorrect answer. I have played all these games and have tracked a lot of animals myself. (consider myself very good) Also have started to learn to track pat as well as 19 other people here. he loves to throw the curve ball and I love him for it. these things make you think. I guanentee you have all learned some stuff from this. (myself incuded) Remember the coyotes calling got that one right here on the putter, blew it in the woods that deer was not worth puttin a tag on the next morning. opps. it sucks when you get awrong answer but it teaches you every time. Yes i agree with every answer so far Im # 18.

winner

From: winner
21-Oct-08

From: winner
21-Oct-08
Congrats Pat junior well done you will grow into that bow and it will get easier to draw. Pat thanks for these they are very educational. I beleive they are very helpfull to new bowhunters and make all my newbies do them.

winner

From: Yendor
21-Oct-08
Slightly to the left of the blood spot that you indicated with the arrow, is that an old golf ball? How far are you from houses?

From: flinger1
21-Oct-08
lets throw in another question , how many would let there 12 year old take this shot ? i mean really , borderline anyways and then he is about 3 feet to the right , even sharper angle ! looks like gut , liver and 1 lung to me , no exit hole ? sure will kill a deer but not something i would look forward to tracking!!

From: flinger1
21-Oct-08
CHIEF , vital hit ,1 hour recovery time, basic bowhunter saftey , who ya got teachin that? glad we dont have to learn that stuff in ohio. liver is vital , stomach is vital , i wouldnt dare take up the trail on either one of those in an hour

From: hobbes
21-Oct-08
I argued shot placement from the camera angle, but after watching the arrow impact. The arrow is coming from a lot farther right (ie sharper quarter than the camera angle appears). For the angle the arrow is traveling, the shot is spot on.

I only have a 9 yr old now, well a 7 and 5 also, but I'll wait to see how confident I am with his shooting at 12 before I decide what shots he can take. But, if I remember correctly, his boys have made shots on a hog or two. Technically this isn't their first rodeo and it appears the boy was/is capable of making the shot.

Great job on the shot, congrats again.

From: ruger109
22-Oct-08
Someone please explain blood splatter and direction to me. I have tracked many animals and I am very good at it, but I don't understand the concept of blodd splatter and direction.

From: fuzzy
22-Oct-08
ruger, "blood splatter and direction" is a tool used by CSI to analyze crime scenes, and by Pat to drive us nuts, and keep our scores low, and the post-count high, on ther "Discuss Interactive Bloodtrail" threads ;-)

From: Davy C
22-Oct-08
I got it wrong but since I'm usually grumbling about Pat's question I wanted to say liked this one. Blood spatter is probably something I don't usually pay a lot of attention to. Most of the time we know which way the trail is going, it starts at the point of impact and ends (hopefully) at the animal. But interpreting blood spatter can be usefull on a difficult trail especially when looking for an animal that has changed direction or is back tracking. I think this is good practice. I have over 30 years experience blood trailing and I had a hard time interpreting splatter. I saw three different drops that looked like they could have indicated three different directions. Well the location of the drop eliminated one of those direction because it was obviously either left to right or right to left. One blood spatter looked like it was going down. I think this is because when an animal is bounding the blood can be shooting out to the side. I quess what I am saying is we should all pay attention to the splatter when trailing a deer (even when we know which way they are going) to learn how to interpret it cause some day it might make the difference in finding an animal. At the same time I think you want to keep an open mind and remember that sometimes blood splatter can be missleading.

From: Black Wolf
22-Oct-08
Ruger,

The tail of the drop points toward the direction of travel.

From: DoubleBrow
22-Oct-08
This questions was easy to me if you think about the original shot.....Look at the tracks and the blood and you know the deer was either going left or right....but the tracks are on the top side of the blood and the arrow didnt blow through the deer but entered on the left side of the deer, the side the blood would be exiting, put those variables all together and there is only only one way it can go.

From: Stekewood
22-Oct-08
I can't decide which I get more of a kick out of. The actual Bloodtrail challenges, or how worked up guys get when they get one wrong.

In the words of Artie Lange, from the Stern show: "WWWWAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!"

From: SERBIANSHARK
22-Oct-08
"Ruger,

The tail of the drop points toward the direction of travel"

99% of the time if you ask me.

I thought that question was the easist so far.

From: fuzzy
22-Oct-08
well, yeah, if you can see blood, that works fine, all I see in the pic is leaves :-( (red-green color-blind, don't ya know?)

From: BOWNBIRDHNTR
22-Oct-08
I have been showing these clues to a guy at work who has NEVER hunted.....he even got the direction right. He did have the benefit of me explaining how these challenges work the other day and one thing I mentioned was direction of blood spatter.

By the way, GREAT JOB PAT JR! Jeff

From: DanL
22-Oct-08
The Question instructs you to use the camera angle not the angle of the shooter 3' to the right(which D would have been the correct answer) I believe B would have been the shoot to pick if the camera angle was used

22-Oct-08
I would have left that gut shot deer for at least 6 hours!

From: Bou'bound
22-Oct-08
you would not have needed to, it would just make him stiffer when you walked up on him.

From: The Rooster
23-Oct-08
New clue is up. I'm 54/54 now, that's a new record for me. I was the first one to answer so I'm all alone on the top of the leader board, another first.

From: nijimasu
23-Oct-08
so far, this has been the easiest BTC so far- I've been in total agreement 100% with everything. I wish I wouldn't have read this thread- now I'll be second guessing the rest of my answers-

From: chief400
23-Oct-08
I have been reminded why I do not post on these sites and will just be playing the game after this post. If you do have the ability to use the pause feature on the video it will show you that the arrow is angled very well into the chest cavity and has penetration within 6 inches of the fletchings. Shot looks very good to me but I am just a “moron”.

From: Stekewood
23-Oct-08
Don't tell me its the dreaded "can you find the deer in this picture?" question.

23-Oct-08
I like the can you see the deer in this picture question!!!! Tell me when you track a deer you don't look a head to see if we can see the deer. sometimes it is in front of you but you don't see it!

I have missed two but because I tried to over analyze of course...that is the fun of these.

From: ducksoup
23-Oct-08
all I want to know is what golf coarse your hunting close to, did anyone else see the golf ball?

23-Oct-08
If you shot from the camera angle (as the question said) and shot "D", you'd be coming back in 8 hours to recover a gut-shot deer. You would not have hit any vitals.

From: hardkill
23-Oct-08
Ok I never post to these discussions because I get to involved. So far I missed 1. You got me with the first one, my bad...

But if anyone misses@6 you should sell your gear and just watch hunting on TV...

I'm Just sayin!!!

From: leftybearfan
23-Oct-08
Shot D looks like the best of the options to me. It will take out the liver, offside lung (possibly part of frontside lung) and exit very near the off-side leg.

B seemed a little too far forward for the angle.

45/54 so far for me. The first question tripped me up, didn't think the deer was moving.

From: stickflngr
23-Oct-08
Pat, #7 NOT COOL!!!!!!! Arrrgggggg. Good trail

From: got_elk?
23-Oct-08
Pat,

The video of that other deer was way not cool. I'm putting the Colorado curse on you (similar to the Boston Red Sox's). No elk for you for the next ten years. Sorry...

From: penseeker2
23-Oct-08
Pat congrats on a great shot and way to wait for him to stop, very nice bow kill.

From: Joebowhunter
23-Oct-08
I'm enjoying this one Pat. One more to go!

From: The Rooster
23-Oct-08
That wasn't that hard to figure out. You're right, the previous clues played a big part in my decision.

From: Glunt
23-Oct-08
Torture? Naw, only when the right answer isn't right :^).

From: Timbow
23-Oct-08
I played it several times and could see the dead deer laying there. The dead one didn't run away so I figured it had to be D ;-)

From: sitt5858
24-Oct-08
Congrats to the young hunter! Enjoy those backstraps!

From: Mr Wapiti
24-Oct-08
what is really going to be funny is when we have a blood trail on Jr's bull before Pat gets one LOL.

24-Oct-08
Despite the fact that your questions trip me up i enjoy these very much. i know it helped my track my first deer last year and i hope i get to use what i am learning this year. No luck yet. i am just posting this to let you know that all the time & effort you put into creating the challeges is appreciated. keep it up and congrat's to JR.

From: fuzzy
24-Oct-08
its an "oak gal" not a golf ball IMO

From: fuzzy
24-Oct-08
Pat, gove the young man a pat on the back from me. Great job! My first archery deer was a very similar hit, similar size buck,with simlar results (I was 14). Brings back great memories!

From: Skeeter
24-Oct-08
Young Pat well!!!!!!

From: Davy C
24-Oct-08
Well I could not see the dead deer in the video so it was not obvious. I would also dissagree that it could not be the deer based on the shot. I have seen deer hit in only one lung go a long ways. In fact just last weekend I shot a doe through the chest and after two hours we jumped her. The shot was forward and low so it did not get a lot of lung but was real surprized upon field dressing to find that the arrow went through the rib cage on both sides.

Since the liver is on the right side I do not think it could be known ahead of time that Pat Jr's. shot was through the liver. Therefore I'll argue that the best answer was to back off.

I'm learning not to take these interactive blood trails too seriously and use the scenarios and discussion to learn from them. CONGRATULATIONS TO PAT JR and thank you for sharing your first deer with us. That is a fine buck and you made a good shot on him. Pat you should be very proud of him and I'm sure you have already told your son that. I think the way you include your family in your hunts is commendable.

From: samman
24-Oct-08
I agree wth Davy C. Even after being told the buck is laying there, I still can't see it. What I think could be it could also pass for a log. I have a pretty nice, large monitor, but the video gets fuzzy when I enlarge it. I think upon spooking a deer, you should assume it's the one you are trailing & back off. Another 15 or 30 minutes wait is better than pushing a wounded animal.

Congrats on the first buck to Pat Jr. Nothing is like hunting with your kids when they get their first or 3rd like my daughter did this year.

From: The Yode
24-Oct-08
I think we should have received some points for the "back off" choice. It never hurts to be safe (unless you see or hear coyotes in the immediate area). The dead one wasn't going anywhere!

CONGRATULATIONS to Pat Jr!!!

From: one shot
24-Oct-08
the distance thing was totally misleading while looking at the video. it looked like the edge of the flat was 80 yds, at least away from the stand. then it looked way further than 40 yds from the top of the hill to where the deer was laying. there perspective of the video totally through my answer off.

From: Elk Hunter
24-Oct-08
Really enjoyed it. Just missed the one questions, I think it was number 2. I picked B, just thought D was a bit back. Would really have liked to split the difference! LOL

Great job Pat!

From: DMurphy
24-Oct-08
Pat Jr great job. I seldom get these right but this one I aced. How many people have tracked a deer they did not see go down that was a "TEXT BOOK" trail to follow. The two deer i have got with a bow, both were double lung pass thoughs, I can find good sign the first 25 yards and the last half of the job is a grid search of expandind circles. Very good job Pat I really enjoy these.

From: Stan NJ
24-Oct-08
Congratulations young Pat....reminds me of both my son's first...at ages 12 and 13...brings back great memories.

I think the hog hunts got you ready to deal with deer. You seemed very composed....and congrats to the proud Pappy....well done.

From: nijimasu
24-Oct-08
Congrats on a cool deer, young Pat! I have a rack just like yours hanging in my garage from my first (only) white tail. Keep the rack forever- it will be a great memory of you and your dad-

dg

From: Yendor
24-Oct-08

Yendor's embedded Photo
Yendor's embedded Photo
Duck soup, I had mentioned the Golf Ball. It sure looks like it to me. It is the right size, and has dimples. Fuzzy, I had thought of an oak gall, but it is perfectly round, and has dimples just like a golf ball. Usually an Oak Gall has horns or protrusions. But it didn't say titleist.

From: Yendor
24-Oct-08

Yendor's embedded Photo
Yendor's embedded Photo
Golf ball is in the center of the picture. Great video Pat. Tell your son how proud we are of him. I loved it when he said that he didn't even shake. I still shake. I think that you have a serious hunter there.

From: fuzzy
24-Oct-08
it's an oak gall. theres another type that has dimples and not horns, very common here in the mountains of VA, in red oak stands

From: DaleM
24-Oct-08
A BIG high 5 and handshake from the D-man, CONGRATULATIONS on your first deer Pat!!!!!!

From: Canteathorns
25-Oct-08
Either I am progressing as a hunter or this challenge was so easy a caveman could have done it. I scored a 72, and if this was an extra easy one I would like to thank Pat for making me feel good.LOL.

From: 153
26-Oct-08
It is almost as if Pat is giving MIS-INFORMATION on purpose. THe choice for shot D is HORRIBLE. ELKILLER is RIGHT ON with his assessment of the shot. His visual aids are correct. The best shot is between B and C but D is GUT.

In fact, the video appears to be a gut shot deer with liver involvement. I would love to see the footage of the actual autopsy after they recovered the deer.

I'll bet the liver was hit.

I think it VERY irresponsible to promote shooting that far back.

26-Oct-08
Its ok to shoot just behind the last rib,If the animal is quartering away severely.

From: Jeff270
26-Oct-08
I actually picked C on the shot placement, even though I thought it was low. D appeared way to far back for me, and B was high if it tried ducking the shot. I agree that the ideal shot was between C and B. Also picked "wait an hour" after seeing the "other" deer take off. Nothing to lose by that choice except an hours time. Even after seeing the "correct" answer, I couldn't see the dead deer in the video.

Jeff

From: nijimasu
26-Oct-08
153, I have to politely dissagree.

D was the best shot- check out where it will exit- exactly at the front leg on the off-side- it hacks a hole in everything important.The other shots are too far forward, based upon where they would exit and what they would cut.

I once shot a mulie that was quartering to when the arrow hit. The deer pivoted its rear end a bit at the shot and though the the arrow hit right where I aimed -- just behind the front leg bone -- it exited through the REAR HAM of the offside leg. The arrow took out arteries, liver, kidney, and one lung, and the deer died quickly. My point with that is that, though no one would ever aim at a rear ham hoping to pass through a whole deer diagonally like I did, a diagonal wound channel is a pretty lethal thing. I always aim with the exit in mind- if the deer is quartering away and you feel the shot is not too extreme of an angle (mine was too extreme, but Pat Jr.'s was perfect), aim so the arrow EXITS at the OFFSIDE front leg.

From: Greg Kush
27-Oct-08

Greg Kush's embedded Photo
Greg Kush's embedded Photo
I probably would have aimed just a bit more forward than D (right at C, but at D's height), but D is the best out of the choices given. The photo in this post is of a buck I shot in 2004 at a quartering away angle similar to that in the photo of Pat Jr's deer. I have had several bowhunters over the years ask me if I was nervous or something and hit "about 8 or 10 inches too far back." This was after I had told them that the deer was quartering away fairly hard. I tell them, "Nope, that is EXACTLY where I was aiming." I am amazed at how many guys don't realize how much you have to adjust your aim when a deer is quartering. With a few of these guys, I had them stand next to a 3-D target with an arrow in their hands and experiment with angling it through the deer (actually above the target) and they started to understand for the first time why I aimed where I did.

From: Greg Kush
27-Oct-08

Greg Kush's embedded Photo
Greg Kush's embedded Photo
By the way, my arrow hit the aorta and busted the offside shoulder. This photo shows the bloodtrail that was created by the deer on his death RUN. He made it about 40 or 50 yards.

From: Bullshooter
27-Oct-08
Heys guys, help a reader out. I can't seem to get an answer for how to do the earlier Bloodtrail Challenges. Have they been disabled? Is there a trick to it? I can only get error messages. Someone please shed a little light, because these are great for when I am supposed to be getting my work done.

27-Oct-08
Got em all right this year !!!!

Woo Hoo ...

From: goose
27-Oct-08
Great shot Pat junior. Thanks for sharing your hunt with us. Another great blood trail. Thanks

From: crashcarl
28-Oct-08
I've got the same problem with the earlier bloodtrail challenges. Error messages keep popping up from Challenge 21 on down.

From: 153
28-Oct-08
To whom it may concern... The shot is too far back to be "THE BEST". Actually, the BEST shot option is not there. Probably the option was left out so as not to make the son feel bad. (A Good dad would do that for his son). But...the TRUTH MUST be told. The shot is NOT the BEST shot to take on that deer. (When I say shot here, I mean actual arrow entrance). OBVIOUSLY the guts were hit upon entry. The liver is on the right side, but it is a big organ, so I am sure it was affected. THe right lung will take damage too. But a deer can and will live a LONG time with the shot, and because it is a high entrance, and lug exit, it may not bleed much at first. Te deer could get spooked and travel a LONG way.

THis is supposed to be educational. There is a TREMENDOUS amount of vascular tissue, arterise, veins, etc. forward in the chest. A deer that has an exit wound low and forward of the chest is DEAD...quick. AIM forward on this shot friends. Or better yet, wait until a little less quarter.

153

From: Stekewood
28-Oct-08
"To whom it may concern..."

Obviously was of no concern to those involved in this hunt, especially the buck!! LOL

Congratulations Pat Jr. That will be the first of many I'm sure.

29-Oct-08
I wanted to wait until everybody was done whining before I came on here to congratulate Pat Jr. on his first archery deer! :)

That was an excellent shot Patrick, and Matt and I are both very proud of you! And a buck too! I know exactly what your stomach felt like when that other deer jumped though, since that just happened to me last week. I shot a little yearling my first night out and I heard it run off and crash, but even though I heard it crash I was second-guessing myself when I jumped it's mama while tracking. It felt like my stomach jumped up into my throat when I saw her run off. I think it's a conspiracy by the deer to try and give as many hunters a heart attack, as possible. Anyways, we're both absolutely tickled to get to watch you shoot your first buck. Somehow, I don't think that will be your last though! Congratulations again, and thanks to your dad for sharing your experience with us though the interactive bloodtrail.

-Cheryl, Matt and Sage

From: rastaman
30-Oct-08
Pat...as usual, great job! Some offspeed pitches with a couple of curves thrown in!

From: fuzzy
30-Oct-08
153, there's a flaw in your logic. The deer died real fast. (I missed the shot placement qustion too btw)

From: catfish
02-Nov-08
catfish I shoot a cross bow I shot a 6 or 8 point buck the deer tried the arrow was defled on the shot before intery it went throgh the deer leaving white hair on the ground belly shot i thought now blood on the bolt that dug in the dirt behind the deer?I thailed him for75 to 150 yrds before the trail stopped?

From: Sarge
04-Nov-08
Pat Sr.....another good Bloodtrail Challenge. Have to remember to read the questions, and usually go with your first instint. Congrat's Pat Jr on a job well done, reminds me of my Sons first deer.....

Sarge.....

From: Bullshooter
06-Nov-08
One more try: Can Pat or anybody explain how to access the earlier Bloodtrail Challenges? Is there a trick to it or are they disabled?

Thanks

From: GregE
06-Nov-08

GregE's Link
BS, they are all there.

Click on the Features tab at the top of the page then select sort by Article Category. That will group them under Interactive Blood Trails.

Or...... click on the link... 8^)

Have fun.

Greg

From: Bullshooter
07-Nov-08
Greg,

Thanks for responding. Yes, I knew how to find them, it's just that when you submit your first answer, you get a message that says:

The web site you are accessing has experienced an unexpected error. Please contact the website administrator.

Etc...

Are they disabled for some reason, or is there a way around this? Greg, Pat, anybody???

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