Moultrie Products
DIscuss MOAB 1
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
TheIceman 22-Feb-10
13 points 23-Feb-10
BuckSlayer 23-Feb-10
arctichill 23-Feb-10
DRR324 23-Feb-10
fuzzy 23-Feb-10
Buckstopper 23-Feb-10
Archenemy 23-Feb-10
njbuck 23-Feb-10
petedrummond 23-Feb-10
Bowbender 23-Feb-10
HerdManager 23-Feb-10
Chip T. 23-Feb-10
polar@work 23-Feb-10
hoytguy 23-Feb-10
hoytguy 23-Feb-10
J.E. Travis 23-Feb-10
Dave B @ Work 23-Feb-10
Twilight322 23-Feb-10
hoytguy 23-Feb-10
Treerat 23-Feb-10
woodinhand 23-Feb-10
PAGuardian 23-Feb-10
Jimbob 23-Feb-10
hoytguy 23-Feb-10
ryanrc 23-Feb-10
gtown 23-Feb-10
coondog 23-Feb-10
switchback07 23-Feb-10
bowhuntr74 23-Feb-10
Lee 23-Feb-10
J.E. Travis 23-Feb-10
Will 23-Feb-10
Jimbob 23-Feb-10
hoytguy 23-Feb-10
Polishturkey 23-Feb-10
squirell hunter 23-Feb-10
Knife2sharp 23-Feb-10
Bullshooter 23-Feb-10
Brotsky 23-Feb-10
Termin8r 23-Feb-10
Bow Drawn 23-Feb-10
arrow 23-Feb-10
ryanrc 23-Feb-10
lilmeadors 23-Feb-10
Stickflinger 23-Feb-10
ducksoup 23-Feb-10
hoytguy 23-Feb-10
Veleas 23-Feb-10
kiffer 23-Feb-10
ryanrc 23-Feb-10
John Scifres 23-Feb-10
buckster 23-Feb-10
buckster 23-Feb-10
buckster 23-Feb-10
JusPassin 23-Feb-10
Coldsteel 23-Feb-10
DVS54 23-Feb-10
GAFFER1 23-Feb-10
Bou'bound 23-Feb-10
Black Wolf 23-Feb-10
petedrummond 23-Feb-10
rosspriest 23-Feb-10
Lee 23-Feb-10
Concho Man 23-Feb-10
boneheadjaz 23-Feb-10
J-ROD 23-Feb-10
Gerald Martin 23-Feb-10
mooseman74 23-Feb-10
drop_tyne 23-Feb-10
arrowwood 23-Feb-10
Buckfever 23-Feb-10
Treerat 24-Feb-10
Clutch 24-Feb-10
Trophy8 24-Feb-10
BookBuck 24-Feb-10
hawg 24-Feb-10
Davy C 24-Feb-10
Clutch 24-Feb-10
Lee 24-Feb-10
born2hunt 24-Feb-10
Termin8r 24-Feb-10
BuckHunt 24-Feb-10
JoeBowhunter 24-Feb-10
DaleM 24-Feb-10
HerdManager 24-Feb-10
Jimbob 24-Feb-10
Buckfever 24-Feb-10
cowboysdaddy 24-Feb-10
oldgun 24-Feb-10
Termin8r 24-Feb-10
deer_hunter89 24-Feb-10
TOM 24-Feb-10
hoytguy 24-Feb-10
hoytguy 24-Feb-10
BowSniper 24-Feb-10
sitt5858 24-Feb-10
Coldsteel 24-Feb-10
HerdManager 24-Feb-10
PAGuardian 24-Feb-10
bill brown 24-Feb-10
yeffer 24-Feb-10
JusPassin 24-Feb-10
Stekewood 24-Feb-10
Stekewood 24-Feb-10
HerdManager 24-Feb-10
bill brown 24-Feb-10
coondog 24-Feb-10
John Scifres 24-Feb-10
kiffer 24-Feb-10
BowSniper 24-Feb-10
dlpassthru 24-Feb-10
PAGuardian 24-Feb-10
Oakie 24-Feb-10
Treerat 24-Feb-10
bman9900 24-Feb-10
x-man 24-Feb-10
squirell hunter 24-Feb-10
HerdManager 24-Feb-10
Trapper 24-Feb-10
13 points 24-Feb-10
luke at work 24-Feb-10
Snickless 24-Feb-10
Snickless 24-Feb-10
dlpassthru 24-Feb-10
dlpassthru 24-Feb-10
patience2spare 24-Feb-10
arctichill 24-Feb-10
arctichill 25-Feb-10
ELFKING 25-Feb-10
arctichill 25-Feb-10
Buckfever 25-Feb-10
Davy C 25-Feb-10
cowboysdaddy 25-Feb-10
hoytcountry 25-Feb-10
Archenemy 25-Feb-10
Bucks_n_Gobblers 25-Feb-10
hoytguy 25-Feb-10
Reddrum 25-Feb-10
Oakie 25-Feb-10
doubledrop 25-Feb-10
ROGUE26 25-Feb-10
DaleM 25-Feb-10
got_elk? 25-Feb-10
Tody 25-Feb-10
Nevin05 25-Feb-10
John Scifres 25-Feb-10
Bullshooter 25-Feb-10
Coldsteel 25-Feb-10
twdant 25-Feb-10
briarpatch 25-Feb-10
BuckHunt 25-Feb-10
ELFKING 25-Feb-10
DaleM 25-Feb-10
HerdManager 25-Feb-10
PAGuardian 25-Feb-10
BowSniper 25-Feb-10
ELFKING 25-Feb-10
Treerat 25-Feb-10
DaleM 25-Feb-10
Roger J 25-Feb-10
arrowwood 25-Feb-10
ELFKING 25-Feb-10
Knife2sharp 25-Feb-10
petedrummond 26-Feb-10
petedrummond 26-Feb-10
Archenemy 26-Feb-10
Grenock 26-Feb-10
Glunt 26-Feb-10
petedrummond 26-Feb-10
Archenemy 26-Feb-10
petedrummond 26-Feb-10
arctichill 26-Feb-10
dlpassthru 26-Feb-10
cigarman 26-Feb-10
petedrummond 26-Feb-10
arctichill 26-Feb-10
John Scifres 26-Feb-10
coondog 26-Feb-10
Jimbob 26-Feb-10
Treerat 26-Feb-10
BowSniper 26-Feb-10
arctichill 26-Feb-10
Grenock 26-Feb-10
Termin8r 26-Feb-10
Archenemy 26-Feb-10
coondog 26-Feb-10
coondog 26-Feb-10
dlpassthru 26-Feb-10
coondog 26-Feb-10
bill brown 26-Feb-10
bow assassin 26-Feb-10
Knife2sharp 26-Feb-10
lilmeadors 26-Feb-10
coondog 26-Feb-10
Grenock 26-Feb-10
Grenock 26-Feb-10
Buckfever 26-Feb-10
Veleas 26-Feb-10
GAFFER1 26-Feb-10
ELFKING 26-Feb-10
Jimbob 26-Feb-10
ELFKING 26-Feb-10
HerdManager 26-Feb-10
arctichill 26-Feb-10
dlpassthru 26-Feb-10
dlpassthru 26-Feb-10
Buckfever 26-Feb-10
leftybearfan 26-Feb-10
leftybearfan 26-Feb-10
dlpassthru 26-Feb-10
dlpassthru 26-Feb-10
mrelite 26-Feb-10
arctichill 27-Feb-10
BuckHunt 27-Feb-10
ITapeIt 27-Feb-10
Treerat 27-Feb-10
EDDYTHEJET 27-Feb-10
LTG 27-Feb-10
Veleas 27-Feb-10
Clutch 27-Feb-10
Allbirdies 27-Feb-10
Tattoo Paul 27-Feb-10
glasmup 27-Feb-10
Fetch 27-Feb-10
Knife2sharp 27-Feb-10
x-man 27-Feb-10
arctichill 27-Feb-10
gobbler 27-Feb-10
Jackson 27-Feb-10
mtoomey 27-Feb-10
Ol' Scratch 27-Feb-10
Jimbob 27-Feb-10
arctichill 27-Feb-10
mrelite 28-Feb-10
Fetch 28-Feb-10
BuckHunt 28-Feb-10
Treerat 28-Feb-10
hoytguy 28-Feb-10
Dietz 28-Feb-10
Dietz 28-Feb-10
Knife2sharp 28-Feb-10
Coldsteel 28-Feb-10
ArrowAtomik 28-Feb-10
Jeff270 28-Feb-10
arctichill 28-Feb-10
Knife2sharp 28-Feb-10
arctichill 28-Feb-10
TradTech 28-Feb-10
Roger J 28-Feb-10
Bou'bound 01-Mar-10
Treerat 01-Mar-10
Fabbow 01-Mar-10
Buckfever 01-Mar-10
John Scifres 01-Mar-10
hoytcountry 01-Mar-10
GAFFER1 01-Mar-10
Bullshooter 01-Mar-10
Sito@Work 01-Mar-10
eddie c 01-Mar-10
Clutch 01-Mar-10
bill brown 01-Mar-10
strait-aero 01-Mar-10
got_elk? 01-Mar-10
Knife2sharp 01-Mar-10
Coldsteel 01-Mar-10
HerdManager 01-Mar-10
arrowslinger96 01-Mar-10
BowSniper 01-Mar-10
got_elk? 01-Mar-10
GAFFER1 01-Mar-10
Brotsky 01-Mar-10
Buckfever 01-Mar-10
fuzzy 01-Mar-10
mrelite 01-Mar-10
r.o.creek 01-Mar-10
treegeek 01-Mar-10
Ol' Scratch 01-Mar-10
arctichill 01-Mar-10
DrTim 02-Mar-10
dempsterhunter 02-Mar-10
arctichill 02-Mar-10
lilmeadors 02-Mar-10
FLHogWacker 02-Mar-10
JERSEY BOB 02-Mar-10
MA_Bowhunter 02-Mar-10
DurangoL2 02-Mar-10
Treerat 02-Mar-10
CAS_HNTR@UC 02-Mar-10
Devilfan 02-Mar-10
Conan 02-Mar-10
Davy C 02-Mar-10
BowSniper 02-Mar-10
Termin8r 02-Mar-10
Davy C 02-Mar-10
hoytcountry 02-Mar-10
J.E. Travis 02-Mar-10
Bullshooter 02-Mar-10
Grunt-N-Gobble 02-Mar-10
mrelite 02-Mar-10
T Mac 02-Mar-10
dlpassthru 02-Mar-10
flinger1 02-Mar-10
BowTech130 02-Mar-10
mrelite 02-Mar-10
Griz34 02-Mar-10
Jimbob 02-Mar-10
Roger J 03-Mar-10
Davy C 03-Mar-10
Grunt-N-Gobble 03-Mar-10
12yards 03-Mar-10
Coldsteel 03-Mar-10
Buckfever 03-Mar-10
ELFKING 04-Mar-10
CThunter 04-Mar-10
polar@work 05-Mar-10
DAVE IN PA 05-Mar-10
Long Hunter 05-Mar-10
Ak49 10-Sep-11
From: TheIceman
22-Feb-10
I'm guessing this just came up since I'm the first poster. Pat, these are awesome. MOAB is going to have some mighty upset Bowsiters. But, as you said no whining. I'm guessing there is no black mamba in this one.

From: 13 points
23-Feb-10
"however the deer is slightly quartering-to ". Am I missing something or dont know the definition, the buck's rump is more toward the camera which, should mean slightly quatering away.

From: BuckSlayer
23-Feb-10
Agree with 13 points

From: arctichill
23-Feb-10
I also agree with 13 Points. Even so, I incorrectly chose #3 as my answer. Without knowing distances and conditions, I assumed the spot I would "aim at" was interchangeable with the "spot I would hit". Based on BB's recent and awesome shot placement thread, I felt that a BH tipped arrow entering the deer at spot #3 would result in the fastest kill. From the picture, it seems that the hunter is slightly elevated in relation to the deer. In addition to being in the "magic triangle" spot #3 is slightly higher than spot #4.

If the shot distance was over 30 yards and conditions (eg. windy) were less than ideal, I think spot #4 would be the better choice as it would allow for a larger margin of error. Also, being lower, spot #4 would provide a very slight advantage in the case of a string "jump". I would love to hear BB's opinion as I have recently become his student with regard to this subject.

From: DRR324
23-Feb-10
"quartering to" - not from my point of view. His head and front are turned- but his rearend tells me a slight quartering away....I picked 4- and would shoot him there all day long, 3 was tempting and will get the job done as well.

From: fuzzy
23-Feb-10
same on the quartering thing, the pic may be decieving, but I see slightly Q-away? but then ?

From: Buckstopper
23-Feb-10
I liked 3 but a pass through would be more difficult with that shot (hitting far shoulder/leg) so choose 4 to improve possiblity of a pass through and better blood trail.

From: Archenemy
23-Feb-10
I chose spot 3, just because you always hear "aim for the off shoulder". 4 was very tempting, but I probably would have dropped the arrow just below him like I did last year. Dang it I still have nightmares about that shot.

From: njbuck
23-Feb-10
I too chose answer 3. 4 was tempting and would take either shot in a real world situation.

From: petedrummond
23-Feb-10
A low or slightly left 4 hit and you got one or no lung

From: Bowbender
23-Feb-10
#4 - Shoot for the exit hole.

No whining - yeah right.

From: HerdManager
23-Feb-10
I thought on a quartering away shot you were supposed to aim in line with the opposite leg (like #3)? I guess not........

I think it says a lot that 48% of bowhunters are getting this question "wrong".

From: Chip T.
23-Feb-10
I think that with all of you are posting your answers and someone just taking the test now knows what the correct rsponse "should" be according to Pat. However I feel that this question can only be subjective, Pat's thinking about what is the correct shot. However, it is a slight quatering away and shot #3 appears to be the best.

From: polar@work
23-Feb-10
is the shot taken from an elevated stand or a ground blind?more info on that aspect of the shot in question would be helpful in future trails.

From: hoytguy
23-Feb-10
I detect a lot of whining! shot #3, no question. In fact, I can't believe that anyone picked differently. I'm gonna go take another look.

From: hoytguy
23-Feb-10
OK, I meant #4,no question. That was my pick. But after looking again, I think #3 is a pretty good choice too. The only thing that might be wrong with #3 is the offside front leg is back, possibly preventing two hole penetration.

From: J.E. Travis
23-Feb-10
Yeah, no whining and again we go with picking a good shot when you asked for the best shot. "Aim at the offside leg"...aren't we told that OVER AND OVER? And the question doesn't state "If you can make it". It's asking for the best place to put an arrow. Double lungs are nice, but I'll take one through both lungs and the big 4 at the top of the heart any day over a double lunger.

Once again, I figure this is gonna be more of a "What would Pat do?" exercise. My answer for that has come to be... I have no friggin clue.

23-Feb-10
#3 is the best answer IMO

From: Twilight322
23-Feb-10
I believe that the bucks hind quarter is towards the camera and with the near side front leg forward the number 3 shot would put it right in the pump station.The number 4 shot would seem a little back and maybe a little low.Anyone else seeing what I am?

From: hoytguy
23-Feb-10
Between 3 & 4 is a patch of hair, put your arrow right in there. Rhymes are fun!

From: Treerat
23-Feb-10
Shot 3 is less margin of error in my opinion so I took it even after reading all above posts cuz that is the shot I would take.Its all personal opinion.

From: woodinhand
23-Feb-10
I picked 3. If the off side front leg is behind the near leg how is that deer not quartering away? Maybe a little whinning. Carl

From: PAGuardian
23-Feb-10
3 seems a little forward to me at this angle. You run a real risk of missing the far lung if you hit dot 3. If broadside, no doubt 3 is the best choice.

If you look at spot 4, it is just behind the "crease". You would still catch the front lung and definitely hit the back one. I seem to remember a certain featured elk hunt with a similar shot presentation that didn't go as expected and I think Pat is testing our memory a little here ;)

From: Jimbob
23-Feb-10
I would be aiming for spot 3

From: hoytguy
23-Feb-10
Woodinhand, If the deer is Quartering away, wouldn't you want to aim a little further back than #3?

From: ryanrc
23-Feb-10
shot #3 is the best shot imo. now i know why that deer ran so far............

From: gtown
23-Feb-10
#3..most definately(spelling)...#3..all day long. It's O.K. to disagree, especially when the other party is WRONG. Whine...Whine....lol

From: coondog
23-Feb-10
I prefer a double lung w/low exit ,that way the deer will bleed out wich makes better meat, #3 lookes like I would hit the opposite leg #4 would be my choice but if I were in a stand I would aim a litte higher unless he seemed really jumpy

From: switchback07
23-Feb-10
#3 for me too. The best shot IMO... all the others look to far back and 4 looks too low and back to me, low of the lungs and back from the heart.. I'm shootin #3 every time

From: bowhuntr74
23-Feb-10
I chose #4. Here is why. The "shoot for the opposite leg" has stopped many an arrow from passing through because of a direct hit on the bone in the shoulder. #4 is a little back, but looking at the body position and shot placement, its far enough up to still get part of the near side lung and at that angle you would surely get the off side lung as well. With this shot it looks like there is no danger of hitting the bone in the off shoulder. Just my opinion.

From: Lee
23-Feb-10
I could have handled missing it except for the "NO QUESTION comment for shot #4 being the best. I picked 3. Killed a lot of deer over the years and big deal if my arrow doesn't exit - still a DEAD deer and I guarantee it would be a good bloodtrail if hit there. Shot one in exact spot this year - deer jumped forward, went down because opposite shoulder was pinned with broadhead - snowplowed and piled up dead in 30 yards - on a 200 lbs. deer no less!

Lee

From: J.E. Travis
23-Feb-10
Picture from the actual hunt looks like Pat's arrow hit about 2 inches below #4... 1000 yards later he found the deer, by his admission, basically by sheer luck.

Yeah... "BEST"... right...

From: Will
23-Feb-10
Ok, this is why I hate and love these "tests". I chose shot 3 because I felt with the angle/twist in the body shot 4 would just a little back and could be liver.

So sorry Pat - I'm Whinning ;)

Cant wait to see what you have next for us :)

From: Jimbob
23-Feb-10
also if you look closely at the deer the hind end is quartering away more than the front. IMO this comes into play. the more I look at it the more I like #3. If you hit there you wont even need to track, the deer will be dead very quickly.

From: hoytguy
23-Feb-10
two inches below 4 may not be a good spot... but neither is two inches right of 3.

From: Polishturkey
23-Feb-10
I picked 3. Shot 6 animals this year right there and none of them went farther than 60yds.

23-Feb-10
alawys been taught to aim for the opposite shoulder ill stand stong with #3 and he was quartering away

From: Knife2sharp
23-Feb-10
I never choose what I would do because it always seems to contradict the answer.

Shot #4 is too low from an elevated position IMO. Ideally #4 should be at the height of shot #1. I also picked #3 because I figured Pat was still on his "triangle" kick.

From: Bullshooter
23-Feb-10
I agree with arctic chill. I just got schooled by BB on this a while back (thread titled Take it or Pass it?), and now y'all "un-schoolin" me!

Can't wait for tomorrow's clue. Is it true you can order all the Blood Trail Challenges on a disc?

From: Brotsky
23-Feb-10
It's gotta be #3. If you hit #3 it's the mother of all blood trails for about 50 yards and then you have a dead deer in your hands. Man, down 6 points already...

From: Termin8r
23-Feb-10

Termin8r's Link
How can you possibly hit the offside shoulder with a shot at number 3? You would be way below the scapula on the off shoulder, especially on a shot from a treestand. You would also be above the leg bone on the exit as well. See the anatomy of a deer with the skeleton that would show this in the link.

Besides, number 3 would be a double lung shot anyhow. Two inches to the right of 3 is still in the lungs/arteries to the heart. Again, a superimposed deer anatomy of this buck would show this. The lungs go approximately to the leading edge of the "knee" or "elbow" as shown in the attached link.

From: Bow Drawn
23-Feb-10
#4 to me looked like shooting the exiting spot next to the opposite leg and right through the boiler pump station and the altimate disconnect. To me holding low in case of the buck jumping the string that made #4 the sensible one of all the options.

From: arrow
23-Feb-10
The "pick the shot placement" question is usually not black & white. Often there will be at least a couple of reasonable choices. I guess if the choices were limited to rump, head, hoof or chest it would be easy but boring.

The game is always fun but usually has a question or two that seems a little un-fair. Its the nature of this type of game, thus "no whinning"!!!

From: ryanrc
23-Feb-10
i tracked a guys deer and he shot right where #4 is! the deer was gut shot. the deer was recovered and no heart or lungs were touched.

From: lilmeadors
23-Feb-10
I shoot over 90 ft lbs of kinetic energy so I picked # 3. I think this whole game will be tough because questions like this are based on the opinion of the person asking the question,...

From: Stickflinger
23-Feb-10
Would have been nice to know if Pat was in a tree where the deer was looking or standing/sitting a blind where the Pic was taken.. #3 was the only choice for me given the information provided :)

My Eclipse 2 blade launched out of my 63# Habu Kurve would have blown right through the other side...

From: ducksoup
23-Feb-10
3or 4 both get you a dead deer, my point is why shoot such a buck that would be a real wallhanger next year. If you want mea shoot a doe!

From: hoytguy
23-Feb-10
ryanrc, #4 is NOT a gut shot. Are you kidding?

From: Veleas
23-Feb-10
3 all the way! When that front leg moves forward, look how far back 4 is! If I saw that deer in CT I would probably hit his rack with a bit of buck fever!

From: kiffer
23-Feb-10
Might or might not pass through opposite shoulder, but with todays equipment (like mine) I have yet to have 1 shoulder stop my bh tipped arrow. 4 looks a bit far back at that angle and no room for error... Like wind, alert, string jump, distance..

From: ryanrc
23-Feb-10
hoytguy, no, not kidding. although looking at it again, the gut shot i referred to was about 1-1.5" lower.

From: John Scifres
23-Feb-10

John Scifres's embedded Photo
John Scifres's embedded Photo
I guess I'm confused. But that's not unusual.

Yellow is front leg and shoulder blade. Bright pink is off leg. Pink cross hatch is a very generous lung.

From: buckster
23-Feb-10
shot you made was #1 low picked up stomach tissue, and possible muscle tissue going through left shoulder muscle. answering blood on arrow

buckster

From: buckster
23-Feb-10
shot you made was #1 low picked up stomach tissue, and possible muscle tissue going through opposite shoulder muscle. answering blood on arrow

buckster

From: buckster
23-Feb-10
ment #2 not #1

From: JusPassin
23-Feb-10
No point in arguing with the guy running the show but I'd take 3 over 4 any day of the week.

From: Coldsteel
23-Feb-10
Well I'll take curtain(I mean shot #4)... All day long. But if'n I couldn't I'd take shot # three(3)...

From: DVS54
23-Feb-10
I AGREE WITH 48 % OF YOU SHOT 3 LEAVES MORE ROOM FOR ERROR SHOT 4 CAN EASILY END UP WITH THAT AAWFUL GREEN STUFF IN THE PICTURE AND A PLUGGED UP EXIT HOLE I'LL TAKE MY CHANCES WITH 3 AND AFTER WAITING AN HOUR FIND MY DEER WITHIN 150 YARDS, HELL, WHO KNOWS HOW MANY OF US HIT 4 AIMNG FOR 3 OR VICE VERSA, AFTER ALL THIS IS A REAL ANIMAL THAT MOVES, NOT A SCREEN. DAVID

From: GAFFER1
23-Feb-10
Given that the deer is just past broadside and shooting down on the deer I 'll take 3 and lose a few points. I think 4 is too low for a deer that is not on to the shooter.

From: Bou'bound
23-Feb-10
No point in arguing but I'd take 3 over 4 any day of the week.

From: Black Wolf
23-Feb-10
48th percentile here, #3 all the time and if I hit it, dead deer everytime...

From: petedrummond
23-Feb-10
IF HE HOT 3 THERE WOULD BE NO BLOOD TRAIL.

From: rosspriest
23-Feb-10

From: Lee
23-Feb-10
Now THAT's funny Pete!!

Lee

From: Concho Man
23-Feb-10
So what is the question (and yes, I would actually enjoy some cheese)?

"Pick the best shot?" - 48% of us thought this meant point of entry.

or

Pick the best aiming point? - The same 48% would have dropped their answer by two inches if they knew superimposing was involved.

Either way, #3 provides the shortest tracking job.

From: boneheadjaz
23-Feb-10
shot 3 for me

From: J-ROD
23-Feb-10
I never aim where i want my arrow to hit.Always aim through the deer to the other side where the arrow will come out.When i started doing this i started finding almost every deer i shot.

23-Feb-10
I ain't whining but I got robbed! I like #3 shot too. I'd rather ere to the front side than the back.

From: mooseman74
23-Feb-10
I have to say that #3 is too high & forward to be truly lethal as #4. #4 is the sweet spot if look at it you will be shooting for the opposite leg & low enough for a heart shot - quick - one shot - lethal kill!

From: drop_tyne
23-Feb-10
I went w/ #3 too. Many valid points here, but I thought #4 was a tad too far back. Just my $.02 Looking forward to the rest of the questions.

From: arrowwood
23-Feb-10
Glad to see I wasn't alone liking #3.

From: Buckfever
23-Feb-10
I think that if you understand Pat's reasoning you pick 4. The deer is quartering away so you want it a little further back than 3 and the buck is looking back and will likely drop so 3 can hit the near shoulder on a drop, where as on a drop 4 puts it right in the boiler room. Plus if you've done enough of these Pat tends to prefer about 3" further back from the crease. I think his preference in placement is to avoid/respect the shoulder, unlike many of us who prefer to hug the shoulder and tuck it right into the crease and avoid a gut shot.

So I picked 4 for the answer, even though all day long in the field, I'm picking 3.

I think the benefit though is in the discussion, so it's better than picking s pot that we'd all agree on.

From: Treerat
24-Feb-10
I have been looking at this picture for two days and I still can't see myself aiming at (#4) that far back and that low because of the way that bucks neck and front chest are turning toward the hunter. Yes the hind legs show a quartering away shot but you also have to take into consideration the way the front of the deer is turned toward you. I still think #3 would be best shot.

If you hit (#3) I don't care if you get scapula on the other side that deer ain't going 100 yards.

Mike

From: Clutch
24-Feb-10
I still would have shot the 3 position but just a couple of inches lower and would be willing to bet that he wouldn't have made it 65 yds with a blood trail---

From: Trophy8
24-Feb-10
3 everytime.

From: BookBuck
24-Feb-10
I can't take it any longer. Now I know why so many bowhunters lose their deer to shoulder blade hits. I showed this to my buddies and they all agree that shot 3 is too high and too far forward. Hands down, shot 4 is the best. If that deer drops even slightly with shot 3 you are dangerously close to the shoulder blade.

Even when Pat shows you what the outcome is with shot 3 and how it puts your arrow into the shoulder blade you still argue? I suspect Pat thinks like we do, give yourself a little room for error and put your pin a little lower so when the deer drops at the shot it will put the arrow in the good stuff.

From: hawg
24-Feb-10
Nice graphics (above) Pat, but the question wasn't asking for the best aiming point. The BEST SHOT (as asked) would be #3. I've seen too many #4 shots that resulted in long slow deaths.

BTW I like chedder:)

From: Davy C
24-Feb-10
I picked the wrong answer for question 1. So far it says 53.7% of people answered correctly. This tells me that most people agree with Pat, but its not overwhelming. Assuming that some answered the question based on what they read in this thread the percentage who agree with Pat could be less. No I'm not whinning. I'm saying that based on the discussion I don't feel bad about my choice and that is what is great about these challenges. The discussion they generate is the real benefit. I've been shooting Dart in a league and I don't always agree with the placement of the vitals but its always fun to talk about it with my fellow shooters.

From: Clutch
24-Feb-10
Shooting with the right setup, the scapula part of the shoulder doesn't affect that much of arrow penetration ( no more then shooting a rib) n you would have center punch the right lung n destroyed the left-- shot 4 to me would have gotten more gut then lung and center punch the left lung---both good shots but I still would have shot #3--- hell what do I know anyhow

From: Lee
24-Feb-10
A deer's shoulder blade is farther forward than many think - #3 isn't "hugging" the blade as tightly as you might think. I truly HATE to trail a 1 lunged deer, especially one as big of bodied as this buck. A one lunged behemoth (I don't know what that buck weighs but he has a huge body) takes a LOT of killing. #4 would scare me with a possible single lunger. This is fun to discuss, though.

Lee

From: born2hunt
24-Feb-10
My first thought was #4. I gave #3 some serious consideration. But in the end I went with #4 because the buck is slightly quartering away and I always like to shoot a little low in order to compensate for the deer dropping a little at the shot. Even a relaxed deer will almost always drop a little at the sound of the bow and the arrow flying.

From: Termin8r
24-Feb-10
Bookbuck,

The arrow is being shot from a treestand. Pat's photo above shows that the arrow entering at position 3 would still not hit the near shoulder blade when the deer reacts to it, as the arrow is angling down. Look at John Scifres photo above.

For position 4, you are barely into the lungs if the deer doesn't react at the shot. Plus, the arrow is angling down putting the off-lung in question. Look at position 4 in the top photo of Pat's post, it looks like it is barely into lungs. So where is the greatest margin for error?

The first move of the deer would be to move its off-leg, as the near leg has most of the weight on it based on the deer's body position. You can see that in the top photo of Pat's post. By moving the off-leg first, the near-leg moves back in relation to the body. By the near-leg moving back, it actually moves the shoulder blade up, not down, in relation to its starting position creating even more margin for error.

However, it is unclear when the top picture in Pat's post is taken in relation to where the arrow is. Has the arrow already hit the deer in the top photo or is it on its way?

From: BuckHunt
24-Feb-10
I would move spot #4 to the right until it bumped into the #3 spot. Then I would sent a 3-blade Rage his way.

From: JoeBowhunter
24-Feb-10
OK I won't whine because I picked #3. But #3 is more right than #4. I'm right and Pat is wrong.... ;)I love these games.

From: DaleM
24-Feb-10
Oh no a Rage. Let's face it, you hit it anywhere with a Rage and it's going down in 10 yards....DONE!!!

From: HerdManager
24-Feb-10
Question #2 is just cruel...............

From: Jimbob
24-Feb-10
HA HA I love question 2, that's just classic if you have followed these blood trail question in the past.

From: Buckfever
24-Feb-10
OMG I'm sitting in the stand all night long, I can't believe it. LOL

Alright, let me just tell you, why I don't check anything and get out of there. The key is that you didn't see anything past 20 yards. In this case there will be little to no blood with the gut shot and you want to find him in his first bed. You "stay put" for 30 minutes get down and quietly get the flock of there and come back in the morning. At this point you do not know that he followed the herd, he might of bedded 40 yards away, last thing you want to do is bump him.

From: cowboysdaddy
24-Feb-10
Pat, I thought you said this one was gonna be hard? :-)

From: oldgun
24-Feb-10
with 45 mins. of daylight left and the rest of the herd far away I would be checking right away, if nothing was close, leave until the morning.

From: Termin8r
24-Feb-10
I would not want to wait until morning because of all the coyotes. I want the meat as much as I want the mount!

24-Feb-10
Why can I not get to question 3???

From: TOM
24-Feb-10
Yeah, i'm sitting in stand all night too....pretty cheezy if you ask me.

From: hoytguy
24-Feb-10
question 3 will be tomorrow. Damn, I assumed I was only staying "put" until my buddy came to get me. Assumption is the mother of all f@#K ups.

From: hoytguy
24-Feb-10
It's gonna be a cold night on stand, I hope I'm strapped in!

From: BowSniper
24-Feb-10
After clue #2 - what is the point of waiting 30 minutes and looking at the arrow?? Is the arrow going to somehow reverse the gut shot clearly seen on the video?? If its a certain gut shot, then the only two good answers are starting to track in 6 hours or waiting until morning to track. And since the morning choice said you were waiting in the stand all night, then how is the 6 hour track not the best of the possible answers??!!?

From: sitt5858
24-Feb-10
I am in the stand all night myself, man i feel stupid.

From: Coldsteel
24-Feb-10
Well I guess I'm batting a thousand. But that doesn't mean I'm right... But shifting gears a little I have seen what a two blade Rage has done to deer... Deer 2 hunter 0... Hunter lost both deer. Though lots of blood, I'll stick with fixed three blades like Muzzy or G5...They truly put them DOWN... IMHO

From: HerdManager
24-Feb-10
I am with you, BowSniper. Knowing it is a gut shot, waiting 30 minutes and looking at the arrow means NOTHING. From the video, you already know you are not trailing tonight. You already know you are leaving and coming back in the AM. How is this the best answer? Actually, sitting in the stand all night really is the best answer because you will not bump the deer. I mean, in the super-hypothesized bizarro parallel universe that is the MOAB....

From: PAGuardian
24-Feb-10
BowSniper...if you only wait 6 hours there is a very real chance that deer will still be alive. He'll be bedded down and you'll be stumbling around in the dark. Vision is a key factor on a tough blood trail and a nighttime tracking job is only hurting you.

From: bill brown
24-Feb-10
I felt like I was going to WAIT until dark, not the next morning, in the stand, then come back and start looking. In the event that this gutshot buck did not run with the herd, it is quite possible that I would blow him into the next province by getting out in daylight and looking for an arrow that I knew would reveal a gutshot. I'm not so concerned about the arrow as I am about not spooking the deer. Only an idiot would take a chance on spooking a gutshot deer. If you have to lean out in an uncomfortable position and torque your bow, maybe you shouldn't be shooting. I'm not so sure I need to agree with your assessment of the situation, especially when I am looking for the correct answer, not the trick.

From: yeffer
24-Feb-10

From: JusPassin
24-Feb-10
OK, the deer have all ran off together, and you already know you made a bad hit. I still think the best course is to get down immediately. I'd trail for a half hour or so, then flag a good spot and then come back in the morning. Why waste good light and fresh blood when yo0u already know he ain't stopin anytime soon.

From: Stekewood
24-Feb-10

From: Stekewood
24-Feb-10
I think I might actually be more entertained by these discussions than the Challenge itself. Nothing like seeing grown men cry over a game......

From: HerdManager
24-Feb-10
JusPassin,

Gut shot deer will rarely travel more than 100 yards, then bed down and die.

Trailing immediately is a horrible idea, and a sure way to lose a gut shot deer.

From: bill brown
24-Feb-10
Exactly my point, Herdmanager, which is why wait until dark, slip out, come back tomorrow is the answer. Most of the time, he will be in or near his first bed.

From: coondog
24-Feb-10
Has anybody thought about the buddy? he has no radio contact and after you dont show up he is going to come in to find you, thats why i like radio's .I dont need to look at my arrow but who can resist ,my decision is made already wait 30 min get down and sneek out cant blood trail in heavy frost but the blood will be easy to see when the frost starts melting the dogs may get your deer but thats what you get when you make a bad shot,i wouldn't be to proud but i would get my antlers

From: John Scifres
24-Feb-10
I personally like sleeping in tree stands. You learn so much.

From: kiffer
24-Feb-10
On a bad hit like that, finding the arrow only confirms what your gut is telling you. Out of respect for the animal and after a sleepless night, I think it would be best to get out and get your buddies together for a grid search in A.M.

From: BowSniper
24-Feb-10
PA Guardian - I agree that 6 hours may not be long enough, and I would prefer to sneak out and return in the morning. But the way it was worded, that was not an option. And the clue says a buddy is on his way to pick you up, and that implies spooking anything out of the immediate area.

I was just saying that checking the arrow tells you nothing that you don't already know after watching the video. So why is it listed at the "correct" answer?

From: dlpassthru
24-Feb-10
That shot could easily get liver. I'm waiting the half hour, checking the arrow for info, and sleeping on it. Considering you have to leave the same way the deer did, Checking your arrow won't hurt and it'll give you info that may not be there in the a.m.

From: PAGuardian
24-Feb-10
BowSniper, I don't disagree with you. The arrow won't tell you anything you don't already know. But given the answer choices it is really the "most correct" choice we have available, not necessarily the most correct in the field. In a real life situation you aren't limited to answers A through D.

From: Oakie
24-Feb-10
Here is a circumstance which clarifies the benefit of checking the arrow. I shot a deer this last season that was quartering heavily away, but turned and looking back in my direction, causing a good twist in his body much like the buck in this photo. My shot made the telltale "plop" and looked to certainly be a gut hit based upon where the arrow hit... so much so that I called my wife and two friends in a panic from the stand telling them I may have just blown my biggest deer ever.

I waited 30 and got down and looked at the arrow. Walking up, I was convinced I was in for an all day deal. As soon as I picked up the arrow I said, 'wait a minute.' 5 yards away there were bright pools of blood. The deer went no farther than 100 yards and I followed the bloodtrail fast and easy. My arrow had hit far enough back to be a gut hit, as evidenced by the milo pouring out of the entrance wound, but the stance of the deer had the arrow exiting right under his opposite shoulder. The arrow told me enough to call my friends and family back and tell them I felt much better about it.

Even if you're convinced it's a gut hit, the arrow will help confirm or deny that. Unless I see a deer drop, checking the arrow is always the first step. It will tell me so much more than what my eye might have seen.

From: Treerat
24-Feb-10
I always wait at least a half hour before I get down after making a shot. Now if I see the deer go down and die I get right down of course. I will sit there and play it back in my head and decide how long before I get down to check the arrow but for sure I am going to check the arrow before I leave regardless of where the deer is hit.

My reasoning over the years is if the deer is hit in the guts it will go at least 100 yards before it beds down (my experience). I will climb down quietly and sneak over to the arrow as slow as I can then after seeing the arrow use that information to further help you decide how long to wait to blood trail that deer.

That is why I chose the answer I did. Whether its right or wrong it has worked for me.

From: bman9900
24-Feb-10
I thought the goal of sticking an animal was to take out both lungs. As I see it, with the deer quartering away #3 will take out the near lung, but could easily miss the far lung. #4 would catch the back of the near lung and would squarely hit the far lung.

From: x-man
24-Feb-10
Well, at least #2 was textbook. I've answered both questions correctly, but only have 12 points ;)

Gee Pat I see you deleted my first post. Strike a nerve?

24-Feb-10
well the option should have been come back in six hrs.find the arrow and make your decision.its gonna be cold the deer would bed and get stiff.maybe die.being there is alot of coyotes i wouldnt wait to morning and the temp. was gonna rise to the mid 50s. i just would of done it this way

From: HerdManager
24-Feb-10
The only difference here Oakie, is that you have video proof of a gut shot.

Awesome buck, by the way. Congratulations.

From: Trapper
24-Feb-10
I'm batting 1000 also so far but the coRrect answer for #1 was shoot at point 3.5 for the quickest kill.

From: 13 points
24-Feb-10
If in a treestand, why would you not clear all limbs out of the way if you are not sure where yer shot opportunites may be?

This should have been an option on question 2; "Review the video footage and then make a decision on what to do next."

From: luke at work
24-Feb-10
Tricky on the "in the stand all ngiht" thing. I answered too fast I guess. 6 hours, still dark. No go for right away. I saw Morning and clicked it. Oh well. At least I don't disagree. If I knew I had gut I'd stay in the stand till last light. More than once has a wounded deer come back to investigate. Rare with guts though. Coyotes or not, going after this deer before morning is dumb.

From: Snickless
24-Feb-10
hmmmm gottta be special with a new high tech phone to get special clues for the next clue we dont use that crap around here we know how to whistle hoot or grunt or bark to alert each other round here sorry my brothers for inviting you all to this circus

From: Snickless
24-Feb-10
hmmmm gottta be special with a new high tech phone to get special clues for the next clue we dont use that crap around here we know how to whistle hoot or grunt or bark to alert each other round here sorry my brothers for inviting you all to this circus

From: dlpassthru
24-Feb-10
Snickless, ruufff ruufff weeeeee bark bark grrrrrr.

From: dlpassthru
24-Feb-10
oops forgot the :? don't want to lose a star.

24-Feb-10
Staying in the stand all night also.... silliness!!!! That's just playin' with us Pat!

From: arctichill
24-Feb-10
RE: Q2, "find the arrow" is only half of the correct answer. The more important half is "then decide". Anytime you can potentially gain additional information prior to making a decision about how to proceed, how could you not choose that option? Even if the arrow confirmed what you already believed you knew, the "then decide" would allow you to make the decision you know is best. Q1 was screwed up. Q2 is a no brainer.

From: arctichill
25-Feb-10
Besides being a no brainer, the other beautiful thing about clue #2 is that it confirmed what many of us already knew about clue #1. If Pat had aimed at #3 he would have had to choose a different hunt for this feature because it wouldn't have been as much fun if the deer fell within sight.

From: ELFKING
25-Feb-10
I answered the first two just fine; but ... #3- well I disagree about the 'no brainer' part of it. Really - that is what you would do? Really? I don't think so !

From: arctichill
25-Feb-10
ELFKING, Q3 IS a no-brainer. That is absolutely what I would do. I've never hunted whitetails, but have marked blood and returned the following morning more than once. In one instance, the following morning I found my elk within 50 yards of where I marked the blood. The neck had been pretty well chewed up by critters, but it was a small price to pay to maximize my chances of recovering my animal. Besides, I felt it was only fair to share my harvest. It made for a slightly easier pack-out and in the whole scheme of things, what's 20#'s of meat out of 300#'s? Knock on wood, but I have never lost an animal and roughly 30% have been recovered the following day.

From: Buckfever
25-Feb-10
Well I think the deal is that at 80 yards the deer stopped thus the pool and then proceeded and jumped a fence. So he's still going pretty strong and it's not unusual for the blood to look good for a while after an animal stops, but often it'll thin out again. So given the findings you got to back out. Pretty much as you should have after the shot. :-)

From: Davy C
25-Feb-10
I don't think it got the liver. The liver is on the right side and the arrow enters too far back. It angles forward. If he was shot from the same angle from the opposite side there is a good chance you would have got the liver on the far side.

From: cowboysdaddy
25-Feb-10
#3 got me !, I spoke too soon !

From: hoytcountry
25-Feb-10
#3 got me too.I hate finding half eaten deer.If it was liver and some lung like i think i would have waited 3 hours myself.and i always mark last blood

From: Archenemy
25-Feb-10
If you read this before you answer you're cheating.

Listening for coyotes was the first answer to get marked off the list. That was easy. Next to go was wait 2 hours and keep going, because it was already dark. If your going to wait 2 hours you might as well wait til morning. The dark red pool of blood only indicates the the buck stopped before jumping the fence. How much blood is in a pool anyway? That left me with the only logical answer: wait till morning.

25-Feb-10
#3...with all the discussion on coyotes I would not have waited until the morning. Oh well, guess no brainer ones get you once in a while too. ;-)

From: hoytguy
25-Feb-10
Arctichill, I hate to bring up question 1 again, but you are right. If Pat had aimed at #3 and still hit that much down and left, he would have hit the #4 spot. Dead deer, short trail.

From: Reddrum
25-Feb-10
Archenemy pretty much summed it up perfectly.

On to the next question!

From: Oakie
25-Feb-10
HerdManager,

The video is still playing in my head! ;-) Good point.

And... Thanks!

From: doubledrop
25-Feb-10
Coyotes got me too, only because I have a heavy coyote population and have had the feeling of walking up on a chewed deer carcass. Worse than losing it in my book, which I know is still a good possibility if you choose to trail it. Oh well, I understand why 1 is the correct choice.

From: ROGUE26
25-Feb-10
No doubt in my mind I would be shooting for spot 4. This deer is quartering away a little bit 3 would almost be to far forward. Little room for error.

From: DaleM
25-Feb-10
Being from Illinois I know the other side of that fence is private land......better wait til morning and find the owner to get permission to persue said animal.

From: got_elk?
25-Feb-10
question 3 was a cake walk for anyone who has made the mistake of going after a hit deer before you should, especially in the dark.

I did the opposite once and after I disturbed a dying deer, I never saw it again. The lessons you learn from your own mistakes can be priceless.

From: Tody
25-Feb-10
So far so good!!! I agree with got_elk, #3 was simple if you've had a similar situation before.

From: Nevin05
25-Feb-10
I chose the wait 2 hours just because I hit a deer just like that once. I marked the trail and waited 2 hours. came back and found the deer 30 yds from where I stopped. Liver shot.

From: John Scifres
25-Feb-10
I knew the "right" answer but I'm already 0 for 2 so might as well be honest. Pool of blood...picking up right up to the fence...I'm going after him.

From: Bullshooter
25-Feb-10
I stayed in the stand all night to punish myself for the bad shot. Hehehe

Then I waited 2 hours to give the deer a chance to die from the liver hit because I wanted to find more than just the antlers and there are coyotes everywhere.

Looking forward to my next screw up with tomorrow's clue.

From: Coldsteel
25-Feb-10
Gee, if I could continue to get these answers right, I might pass my next job promotion... lol. But I've seen what happens when you find a big puddle of blood and continue... You bump the animal and lose him...

From: twdant
25-Feb-10
Damned coyotes... 2 for 3.

From: briarpatch
25-Feb-10
I missed # 2 what they didn't know was me and the wife were fighting and that summit was so comfortable, i thought i was better off up in the tree for the night!!!

From: BuckHunt
25-Feb-10
Coyotes almost had me, but I figured that they could be yipping about anything. Waited til morning, still at 100% :D

From: ELFKING
25-Feb-10
OK - Pat walks in and out of the stand - his buddy knows where the stand is; they are familiar with the area; they believe the blood trail will cross their trail; so they know the area that well; they find the blood; and follow it to a fence.

Now really- in an area with coyotes if you do hear some activity in the area that night- maybe you should get on the trail- yes- the hit was back; the liver is on the right side; and the arrow seemed well back of that; so guts were hit. Best thing to do - wait - unless you can hear coyotes in the area.

Because the arrow was found ~on~ the ground; which ~apparently~ means the arrow did not pass through and stick in the ground. Because the arrow was covered with blood- he didn't just hit gut.

That means a the left rear leg or if the arrow went forward- one lung.

So - yeah bad hit- but let it go with coyotes there- well you know how that would come out.

But the part I find unbelievable; and thus it made me pick the 'wrong' answer- is that they would actually mark the spot where the deer crossed the fence. REALLY ? I really believe 90 % of us could find that spot on the fence from the description given if we walked in on the trail to the treestand. They are familiar with the area; and they need to mark it? Frankly- no I would not- because I would start following blood from where they saw it on the trail; because they are familiar with where it was; and can see the next day- how the blood is drying or not; and how color it looks in the daylight. That really helps to follow the trail a bit and get your eyes back into that particular blood trail. Your likely to find more sign- with more indications in the daylight.

But mark the fence.... I bet they know that fence real well- and have noted the trails on it; and they know exactly where the spot is. Chances are: they decided to follow the trail to the fence to begin with.

In a strange area- yeah mark it- but they knew where they were- and didn't need to mark it. But if they heard a coyote yodeling contest- well either scare them off: or get on the trail. That is the 'no-brainer'.

From: DaleM
25-Feb-10
Elfking regardless of how well I know the area I hunt I always mark heavily on marginal hits. It can help determine a direction of travel if one loses the trail.

From: HerdManager
25-Feb-10
"Because the arrow was covered with blood- he didn't just hit gut."

Huh? Blood on an arrow does not indicate ANY type of hit. Stick an arrow through your guts (only), and guess what, there will blood on the arrow!

Don't really do that, I am just trying to make a point. I have gut shot deer and had lots of blood on the arrow. There are blood vessels in the guts of an animal.

From: PAGuardian
25-Feb-10
I don't understand the pet peeve with marking the fence where they stopped. What does that hurt? The "I know these woods like the back of my hand" mentality has undoubtedly resulted in many unnecessarily lost animals over the years.

From: BowSniper
25-Feb-10
If the answer in #3 turns out to be wait until morning, doesn't that change the real right answer for #2?!?!?

From: ELFKING
25-Feb-10
I think I just agreed with the logic of the other answers so well- that when it came to marking the fence- its just something I only do in unfamiliar areas...so I answered the logical way to me. if you hit the gut and gut alone- it will be smeared and have gut material on it. If it passes through muscle- it can 'wash off' the gut material while going through. That arrow had blood on it-

I like this- but dang-

From: Treerat
25-Feb-10
I would not have followed the trail 80 yards. But I sure would come back in the morning. I would not want to take the chance of pushing the deer and losing him. I could care less about the yots. Let them push a deer that I am not sure where he is hit...because I not going to.

mike

From: DaleM
25-Feb-10
Bowsniper one thing that isn't taken into account here by most of us is that when we are bloodtrailing we are taking in and processing a gazillion bytes of information with each step and or inch of a bloodtrail. The time of day, cloudy or sunny, weather conditions now and later, the terrain, types of plants, trees, brush in the area the deer has gone through or is heading into, nearby water sources these are all things we take in and process rather instanty. Decisions are made all along a bloodtrail based on the situation/evidence provided. Unfortunately we don't have all those outside influences sitting behind our computers. Basically the way I look at these is a bit of fun in the off season and ultimately a learning tool. No matter how you trail your deer for your given situation as long as it leads to a recovery it was the right thing at the time to do.

From: Roger J
25-Feb-10
I too am sleeping in my stand (tricked again). Unfortunately the correct answer was never an option so we were left to choose a bad one to begin with. How about;

(E) Immediately circle back and wide before travelling South to where your friend will be picking you up. You do not disturb the deer or the impact area and there is no point because it is a gut shot deer. You have 45 minutes until dark so you will get out before your friend gets in. Then go back at first light and find your deer within 100 yards of the arrow.

From: arrowwood
25-Feb-10
Roger, I'd agree with you however I remember from the live hunt this deer went 500+ yards. Way longer than I would've thought. The herd may have had something to do with it. Had he been alone might not have gone far, but felt pressure to keep up as long as possible.

From: ELFKING
25-Feb-10
I agree with Roger - that was my first thought too- but not an option ( to walk around where the deer might be and warn the other hunter before he enters the area and scares off the deer.

Thing is - if that arrow hit the gut and then the leg; that would explain the blood. If you have a leg hit deer; you follow it; you push it to help prevent the wound from clotting. With a gut wound and a leg wound- well - normally a gut shot deer will hump up and walk off a very short distance. But with a muscle hit- well the deer would most probably keep going.

If I heard coyotes nearby: I would have to wonder if they found the deer.

From: Knife2sharp
25-Feb-10
The best clue for Q3 is that he tracked it 80 yards. With the camera footage of the shot and the arrow to confirm you did not double-lung it, I would've never started tracking it at all. The deer could've jumped the fence and bedded down well within hearing distance of the fence. There is a good chance the deer got bumped from its bed and now it won't feel safe bedding down until it finds decent cover or a good vantage point.

I will bet that this deer may try to find water or it'll make a wide loop and circle back to the direction the deer came from before the shot.

I think the arrow passed through the deer just behind the diaphram and exited out though the liver. The arrow trajectory doesn't seem that steep of an angle where it would exit through the stomach. If the stomach was hit, the deer wouldn't feel like running and would bed up quickly, then likely keep getting up and walk a bit, then bed again. But part of the intestines were hit.

From: petedrummond
26-Feb-10
So far I haven't agreed with any of the "answers" but clue 4 takes the cake and is clearly wrong. The blood picture is a "splatter" which indicates it occured all at once either by a very large clot blowing out or by being ejected from the nose or mouth. Note the blood has both large purple clots and fresh blood. The clots don't form in those big chunks by an animal laying down and slowly bleeding. These jello like clots form in the body cavity by blood "pooling". Had to have coughed it up from stomach or blown out nose or mouth from lungs. The obvious splatter marks which radiate outward cannot be accounted for by any other explanation. The lack of obvious food material is weak since the deer just appeared to eat and a deer, being a ruminant has a multiple stomach anyway. Bad answer.

From: petedrummond
26-Feb-10
And I almost forgot...........rutting bucks don't usually eat much anyway.

From: Archenemy
26-Feb-10
I hear ya Pete. I thought about #1 and #4 for a long time. I too noticed the splatter pattern and could only determine the blood was ejected somehow. My decision was based on the way the question was asked (kinda seemed like Pat was giving us a clue that it was going to be an odd answer) and if you pour something out it splatters in all directions. I got a big goose egg on that one.

I don't care about my score, I just love these things anyway. Keep 'em coming Pat!

From: Grenock
26-Feb-10
I agree with Peter and Archenemy, that blood was expelled by force, most likely through the mouth via a cough, not regurgitation. As the blood works into the esophogus, the deer would cough to clear its throat, it would not have to expell its stomach contents to do so. The spatter is consistant in the photo from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock in the photo. If it "poured out" after filling the cavety, the spatter pattern would be consistent for 360 degrees, it is not, and is obviously directional from right to left. None of the answers for selection were correct in my mind because expulsion via cough was not an option, therefore, expulsion through vomit is the most correct answer since it at least took into consideration that the blood was expelled by force. Blood pouring out the hole and falling to the ground is not correct, but its your game.

From: Glunt
26-Feb-10
#3 is incorrect. "...come back in the morning." What is meant by "the morning"? 6 AM July 10th 2015? Christmas morning? The very next morning at 12:01AM?

Just using a bit of logic from the "stay put" answer somehow meaning you would stay in the stand all night :^).

From: petedrummond
26-Feb-10
Stay put is right, your guide is coming to pick you up in a truck. Hes driving to the stand! You go home with him and come back in the morning. Also although coyotes all howl at dark if you hear them howling an hour or two after dark from the same location it can be relevant.

From: Archenemy
26-Feb-10
Game! What? I thought these were TEST and if we didn't pass we aren't allowed do our own blood trailing.

From: petedrummond
26-Feb-10
But we can bring bread and cheese to go with our whine!

From: arctichill
26-Feb-10
I disagree with petedrummond, Archenemy and Grenock. I belive that blood pool was the result of a rapid draining of blood which had accumulated in the cavity. It's always going to be more of a challenge to look at pictures opposed to actually being on the trail. With that said, I think what appear to be large purple clots are actually blood spots of the same light color on top of darker colored (decaying probably) leaves. As far as identifying a consistennt splatter pattern, splatter patterns of this nature are very irregular. If you were to pour water from a pitcher at a consistent rate, from a consitent height onto a flat, level and consistent surface you would probably get a very consistent splatter pattern. If however, blood was rapidly exiting a hole from a moving animal, onto a very inconsistent accumulation of leaves, grass and debris I think it would be unlikely to see a uniform 360 degree splatter pattern. Again, pics are challenging to work with, but those are the thoughts I had prior to choosing the arguably "correct" answer.

From: dlpassthru
26-Feb-10
If Question 4 had said the blood was the result of " a rapid loss of blood from a clot breaking loose, I would have selected it. That was my first thought. But upon looking at the photo, there is a large mass of something in the center of the picture. It looks like a wad of chewing tobacco or something. That made me think vomit. Clearly, the blood came out forcefully, and at once, therefore, The correct answer should have had reference to that. Done Whining, but I think the answer was poorly worded.

From: cigarman
26-Feb-10
Pouring blood in a round pool can't make directional spatter. If it was pouring it would either be a round pool with 360 degree spatter or, if the anmial was moving, a line (or at least oblong spot) with directional spatter. I will be interested to see what the future clues are because either there is something I am missing or we can rewrite the physics books right here.

From: petedrummond
26-Feb-10
Pouring water from a pitcher is a splatter pattern by definition. The only way a deer could do it would be to conveniently stand up so the dripping blood could gain velocity, and disgorge enough at one time for the droplets to fracture off the main stream, kinda like a faucet. Beside the drops are clearly directional to the left.

From: arctichill
26-Feb-10
The arrow hit was low. If the deer had bedded in that spot, it's possible that the hole being covered could have allowed pressure to build up in the cavity. When the deer stood (after being spooked by the approaching hunting partner) the pressure was quickly released and the blood forcefully exited the wound creating a directional splatter. Hasn't anybody seen the new Sherlock Holmes movie? Hehehe

From: John Scifres
26-Feb-10
Hey Pat finally got one right :)

From: coondog
26-Feb-10
I picked my answer in my head before I looked at the forums,but I had to see what was up w/the coughing up blood thing .I wouldn't pick lungs and I didnt see any stomach matter I have seen where they have blown out the nose and sprayed but not qty like that.sooo..I thought I was going to to learn somthing new . I have never seen or had anyone say that a deer would puic up blood ,but I also know that this is a crazy #$% game. I play because I want to learn,

From: Jimbob
26-Feb-10
the shot was low therefore blood shouldn't "pool" in the cavity then drain, that was my thinking anyways.

Also there is clearly a direction in the blood splatter. either the deer was moving and lost the blood or the deer propelled the blood out. But if the deer was moving when it lost all that blood why would it be in a pool? I guess some how the deer just "shot" out all the blood from its wounds when it was standing still, that seems weird to me.

With the large chunk of something in the middle of that blood the logical answer was vomiting.

All fun and games though.

From: Treerat
26-Feb-10
I think the buck laid there for a bit. That would explain why there is some coagulated blood in the center.He then heard Pats buddy coming and stood up. When he stood there to get ready to bolt the blood poured out causing the splatter. The splatter looks to ME like it is going different directions. The buck probably moved around that spot slightly before bolting.

I think he may have clipped one lung and got the liver. Probably wont be much blood to find for awhile if the buck ran off from there till he slows back down. If his buddy would not have bumped the deer they would have found him right their in the morning dead.

JMHO

From: BowSniper
26-Feb-10
That just didn't look like a puddle I normally see from bedded deer that have been shot. And the splatter looked violent, as if forcefully expelled. Didn't think blood pouring/dripping out of a hole could do that. Unless it was a very taaaalllll animal. Is it Giraffe season?? :-)

From: arctichill
26-Feb-10
So the deer headed North? I thought you called it MOAB because you shot the deer in Canada and recovered it in Utah?

From: Grenock
26-Feb-10
Hmmm, maybe it was a bloodfart.

Unless someone was standing there watching the deer bleed, I guess we'll just have to ponder. I am sticking with a cough to clear blood in the throat.

From: Termin8r
26-Feb-10
I do not see any coagulated blood in the center or picture. What I do see is the two-toned leaves with the blood on them making it look like some blood is darker. Look at most of the leaves in the picture - they are mostly two-toned.

From: Archenemy
26-Feb-10
Pat knows the deer didn't vomit the blood probably because when he did recover the deer its mouth and nose were clear of any blood. Just a hunch on my end.

From: coondog
26-Feb-10
two-toned leaves ,good call makes you look at it differantly

From: coondog
26-Feb-10
two-toned leaves ,good call makes you look at it differantly

From: dlpassthru
26-Feb-10
I guess the "chewing tobacco" in the middle of the pic is probably digested acorn, maybe it was keeping the blood from coming out.

From: coondog
26-Feb-10
made the splash with a sudden stop then stood there watching Pat mark the fence,bleeding, then got the h&@# out of there

From: bill brown
26-Feb-10
Coondog, I think you are close, but what likely happened was he lay down and got some coagulation. Maybe he was just standing in place. When he stood up to run or moved around, the clot broke loose. Why did he get ready to run? Was it because we were looking for arrows and flagging blood trails instead of sneaking out? What is totally apparent at this point is that he wasn't running with the herd, but was disturbed by Pat or his friend. You don't get that kind of pooling from a running deer. Walking or standing, OK, but not running.

26-Feb-10
i choose vomiting about the pool of blood even though it would be more like a cough from choking on blood how would they know unless they were standing there watching the deer?im not whining just wondering how they get there answers.

From: Knife2sharp
26-Feb-10
I chose vomit too, because it was off the wall. I've never heard of that happening and assumed like others that the entrance should be low, so no pooling was taking place and it's been bleeding ever since he shot. He never said the blood had stopped and I knew it wasn't a bed.

What probably happened was a hunk of something blocking the entrance hole, which I've seen happen before on low hits that exit out the stomach. If that chunk of matter pulled out, then it would release the pressure and everything backed up comes out all at once.

From: lilmeadors
26-Feb-10
You cant assume he ruled out vommiting just because he saw the bucks clean face later. The reason it is wrong is because animals cant just cough up blood from their intestines. The only time they can cough it up is when the shot is to the lungs. People dont cough and vomit up their meal from the day before, deer dont either.

From: coondog
26-Feb-10
kinda my thought, mabey thats why I have never heard of it

From: Grenock
26-Feb-10
People also don't get shot through the gut with arrows either, usually. A hit to the top of the stomach or low in the esophagus, both which are likely with a liver hit, can result blood run up the esophagus and into the glottis at which point the deer would cough to clear what it preseves as a choking hazzard. I will be interested to hear how Pat was able to rule this possibility out.

From: Grenock
26-Feb-10
People also don't get shot through the gut with arrows either, usually. A hit to the top of the stomach or low in the esophagus, both which are likely with a liver hit, can result blood run up the esophagus and into the glottis at which point the deer would cough to clear what it preseves as a choking hazzard. I will be interested to hear how Pat was able to rule this possibility out.

From: Buckfever
26-Feb-10
I got 4 wrong as well. That flat out looks like the kind of pattern from the deer sneezing blood, expelled. I appreciate that you have to save the details for a what was hit question later. But I'll tell you right now that it sure looks like somehow that shot caught a lung and that the splatter was expelled. If no lung was hit though, then I'm wrong and I'm very curious to see what was actually hit.

I have to admit this is by far the most insructive bloodtrail challenge.

From: Veleas
26-Feb-10
I thought gagging and coughing before I looked at the choices? I picked vomiting. The way it looked projectile, not pouring out. It was not vomit or there would be other stuff in it. I still think it was from the mouth, not the body!

From: GAFFER1
26-Feb-10
I passed on the vomit response because deer, like sheep, goats and cows can bring up a cude to chew but they cannot vomit. If they get bad feed they die, thank god for good vets. I to have seen the cough splatter effect but it wasn't a choice, if it was I would have selected it.

From: ELFKING
26-Feb-10
******SPATTER******* Main Entry: 1spat·ter Pronunciation: \?spa-t?r\ Function: verb Etymology: akin to Frisian spatterje to spatter, Middle Dutch bespatten to splash Date: 1600

intransitive verb : to spurt forth in scattered drops transitive verb 1 : to splash with or as if with a liquid; also : to soil in this way 2 : to scatter by or as if by splashing 3 : to cover with or as if with splashes or spots 4 : to cast aspersions on : defame

*********SPLATTER*********

splat·ter (spltr) v. splat·tered, splat·ter·ing, splat·ters v.tr. To spatter (something), especially to soil with splashes of liquid. v.intr. To spatter, especially to move or fall so as to cause splashes. n. A splash of liquid. adj. Characterized by gory violence: splatter films. [Perhaps blend of splash and spatter.]

From: Jimbob
26-Feb-10
that picture clears thing up Pat

From: ELFKING
26-Feb-10
The SPATTER is round; which indicates the deer was standing there bleeding. The lack of bright color blood means it was not from the lungs.

Some of the spatter is not quite round; but look close- it is hitting leaves; and either running down via gravity or by force of volume on an angle. The striking pattern of that blood- upon the leaves below: is a bit misleading.

Looks to me like the deer passed over the fence; then ran a bit and waited to hear if it was being followed- counting on the fence making noise- by a pursuer. When ~someone~ made unnecessary noise by ~tying a marker to the fence- the deer took off- or it would have been found real close to that spot.

LOL Pat ;)

From: HerdManager
26-Feb-10
After seeing that much blood you'd think he would not be far......

From: arctichill
26-Feb-10
I agree Herdmanager. One time when I was trailing an elk I hit badly, I came upon a pool of blood like I've never seen before. I found this particular blood the day after I'd shot the bull. He had obviously bedded in this particular spot. I was certain he would be very near by. After finding two more bloody beds about 20 yards from one another I couldn't fathom any animal containing that much blood. Long story short, I found that bull nearly a mile further. Granted, elk do contain a lot more blood than deer. Even so, I learned on that trip that looks can be very deceiving. I would give anything to have had a Blood Trail challenge created from that instance. The fact that I recovered that bull goes down as one of the luckiest experiences of my life.

From: dlpassthru
26-Feb-10
Pat, why not give us that picture? We can't do as well as you did if you only give us 1/4 the info you had.(NOT whining) That deer was running and stopped, then walked off. I'm never gunna find this deer! And it had a perty rack, too.

From: dlpassthru
26-Feb-10
I reckon yer right:>

From: Buckfever
26-Feb-10
I got 5 right without the Mobile clue, because I figured out what the Mobile clue was, which makes the question extremely easy. And absolutely validates how sneaky Pat is. I'm not going to give it away but DUDE that's just cold. LOL :-)

From: leftybearfan
26-Feb-10
I've been on the mobile site for the last ten minutes looking for this secret clue. Apparently I'm a moron cause I can't find it.

From: leftybearfan
26-Feb-10
Finally found the clue. Now I just feel silly.

From: dlpassthru
26-Feb-10
I didn't get on the mobile, so I guess you're going to give me the finger now, Pat?:}

From: dlpassthru
26-Feb-10
One more Question, How is the vomit answer worth zero points when you admit that's the second best answer?

From: mrelite
26-Feb-10
Interesting red green colorblind issue, did that guy actually find the blood drop? if he did that's amazing

From: arctichill
27-Feb-10
There we go. Question 5 should have cleared up any concerns or confusion one might have had about Question 4. Thanks Pat.

From: BuckHunt
27-Feb-10
#5 makes one very thankful for proper color vision!

From: ITapeIt
27-Feb-10
There is no "shiny" spot..........I thought color blindness sees yellow, like in A5

From: Treerat
27-Feb-10
I looked the pictures over for awhile and found two spots where I thought they looked out of place compared to the other ones. Both spots where on different answers so I guessed and got lucky. I did not have the clue either.

Mike

From: EDDYTHEJET
27-Feb-10
one of my friends is colorblind, so he calls me when he hits a deer that is hit marginally because he told me blood looks wet to him on the ground. Is the next clue you give from the blind guy that was helping? Could he describe the smell of blood? I was intrigued by this blood trail game until that question! Why not show a pic of what you saw when you got there? Sorry to whine! Good luck!

From: LTG
27-Feb-10
Real clue is that this is master from which intro photo is cropped.

From: Veleas
27-Feb-10
I don't have phone web. I'm guessing about the clue that I figured out, confirmed my answer! Funny!

From: Clutch
27-Feb-10
Thanks for the mobile help

From: Allbirdies
27-Feb-10
I am colorblind and I cant see blood on the ground at all. Sometimes I can pick up blood if it has splattered on a cactus but never on the ground...When I shoot an animal and don't see it lay down, there is nothing I can do with out a buddy!! It really SUCKS

From: Tattoo Paul
27-Feb-10
My phone goes ring. No camera, no web, just ring. So clue 5 was kind of like going hunting, but they won't let you bring any arrows. Plus, I'm not colorblind, so I have no idea what a colorblind person would see.

I'll blame it on no coffee this morning yet.

From: glasmup
27-Feb-10
I was perfect till the color blind question! then I got a goose-egg. I am not color blind, so I researched color-blindness to see what blood would look like to green red blindness. The blood would not look the way I does in the correct answer. Oh well, this is still fun!!!!

From: Fetch
27-Feb-10
piece of cake. 5-5. dont know what everybody is whining about

From: Knife2sharp
27-Feb-10
The Bowsite mobile clue doesn't give you anything that isn't already there. Most should be able to figure it out. It's right in front of your face.

I was right about one thing, that buck is looping back to his safe haven or core area where he feels safe. If that map is directionally correct, that buck came from the East and is heading back to the East.

From: x-man
27-Feb-10
I don't even own a simple cell phone, let alone one with internet. But I was able to figure it out anyway(I got lucky on #5).

From: arctichill
27-Feb-10
Fetch, for the next three questions try this: answer the question and THEN visit this forum. HAHA

From: gobbler
27-Feb-10
I think we all ought to start wearing 3-D glasses to follow any blood trail. You know to make it more challenging.

From: Jackson
27-Feb-10
The only thing I learned from that question is to not hunt with a buddy who is color blind. Somehow I guesed correctly.

From: mtoomey
27-Feb-10
there's more whining from you guys than than a parade of PETA people at Sea World! Grow up and play! :)

From: Ol' Scratch
27-Feb-10
I'm sorry, you call this a no brainer, but I call it a totally different approach to the same situation. After checking the tape you have to have a fairly good idea that the liver was a possibility. To me the dark red blood confirms non oxygenated blood and at least a 85% chance of a liver hit. Although this is a fatal hit and comming back in the morning is a possibility, the weather is cold which could cause coagulation of the entrance wound and there are coyotes in the area. You have access to two other bodies and a light I assume, so my approach would be to keep the blood flowing and push to induce death through blood loss. By waiting you give the entrance wound a chance to coagulate and stop up and you end up in the exact situation you did...a long trail with little to no blood. Just because that is what you did doesn't mean it's right! At the very least you should have given partial credit for the liver hit answer. With all due respect to your knowledge, I believe YOU made the wrong move and the results seem to prove me right in the fact that you almost lost this animal.

Scratch

From: Jimbob
27-Feb-10
I don't have a fancy cell phone but I still got the clue. I just typed the mobile web address in my address bar on my computer, brought me to a site and there i found the clue.

From: arctichill
27-Feb-10
Q6 takes the "no brainer" award. Pat, I can't understand why the other methods would have even been attempted given the information you provided. If the correct answer would not have worked then the other options might have been utilized. Obviously the right answer truly is the right answer in this instance.

On a seperate note, what the heck are you talking about "fight temptation to abandon the trail?" I killed my very first elk with a little bitty Hoyt Raider when I was a young teen. I still have that bow for sentimental reasons. I have a small square cut-out from a magazine which I laminated to the inside bottom limb with scotch tape when I was twelve. It reads "How long should you track a wounded animal? Until you are absolutely certain you will never find it and then at least a mile more."

Talking about temptations about abandoning the trail after 900 yards is completely absurd. This, mind you, is coming from a guy who recently chartered a helicopter to look for an elk! I'm hoping it was just a poorly worded sentence. A hunter of your caliber couldn't possibly have been tempted to abandon that trail after knowing that was a dead deer.

From: mrelite
28-Feb-10
With that type of bloodtrail the bottom line is not disturbing whats in front of you, a spec of blood can get wiped out quick!

From: Fetch
28-Feb-10
wow. goose egg sucked. so much for circles

From: BuckHunt
28-Feb-10
no longer 100%, should have figured it was crawling

From: Treerat
28-Feb-10
I thought for sure it would be crawling! Dang it.

Mike

From: hoytguy
28-Feb-10
I thought you said the drop of blood was found where the path comes out to the fence line, so if you walked the fenceline first and had a good look on each path, should you not have found it that way?

From: Dietz
28-Feb-10
I have found that alot of times when you think you have lost the trail and blood,you should seperate and check brush piles and thick areas the deer is looking for a place to expire. I picked the wrong answer but remember this is what you did it doesn't make it wrong or right is real life blood trails to each his own.

From: Dietz
28-Feb-10
I have found that alot of times when you think you have lost the trail and blood,you should seperate and check brush piles and thick areas the deer is looking for a place to expire. I picked the wrong answer but remember this is what you did it doesn't make it wrong or right is real life blood trails to each his own.

From: Knife2sharp
28-Feb-10
My bad, I mean West, not East.

From: Coldsteel
28-Feb-10
Question 6 and 7... No whining... I have a fancy phone and the clue for #6 was lousy, and #7, getting on your hands and knees was just a dumb way of stating that you would regroup and start where you last saw any blood sign... spreading out along the deer path has led me and my buddings to our deer many of time... obviously how you approached this is totally opposite than mine... Oh and I would have flagged everywhere I located a spot of blood...

From: ArrowAtomik
28-Feb-10
I would be going hands and knees along each side of the fence. I don't know that I've ever seen a wounded deer cross a fence without leaving a trace of blood. I've had many go with no blood trail until they jump the fence and pour it out in a pile or reopen the wound just after crossing.

From: Jeff270
28-Feb-10
Ok, I looked at the picture showing them finding the last blood. It was on a trail and he was on his knees. Thats why I picked it!

From: arctichill
28-Feb-10
The problem with focuusing on the fenceline is that there's no strong evidence that the deer crossed the second fence. The fence appears to be about 100 yards from Q6. It is very possible that the deer could have changed direction prior to reaching that fence.

From: Knife2sharp
28-Feb-10
I'd be surprised too if it crosses the next fence. In going with my loop theory he may start heading South.

From: arctichill
28-Feb-10
Q7 has some great entertainment value, but beyond that it's pure luck. Anybody answering that question has a 25% chance of getting it right. I don't care how good your eyesight is. With that picture, even knowing the right answer, it is impossible to see what Pat describes. Anybody who thinks they can has one heck of an imagination. Pat should have just blacked the whole picture out and asked, "Given that one of your trackers is blind, and this is what he sees, determine if the deer is in section A, B, C, or D." Maybe that's coming in question #8?

From: TradTech
28-Feb-10
LOL! HA! I got it!

WRONG! hehehehehehe

See ya' Friday Pat.

From: Roger J
28-Feb-10
Pat, Do you have any doubts about your very first choice to track this deer that first 80 yards after the shot.? I am having a terribly hard time believing that you didn't make the whole thing a lot harder than it ever had to be.?

From: Bou'bound
01-Mar-10
the next question will be what did i hit?

From: Treerat
01-Mar-10
arctichill, I agree if you get # 7 right your either cheating or lucky. Even when you know where it is you cannot see it in 20 seconds. I even looked on an unregistered computer and looked at it at least 100 times blown up and still could not see it. Good luck and don't cheat. I mean that is just down right wrong!

Mike

From: Fabbow
01-Mar-10
Pat, you said you lost sight of the buck after 20 yards, even though I would have done the same of checking my arrow, I believe that move made this track job a lot harder, in hind sight quietly backing out till the next morning may have been the better move. After more track jobs like this than I care to admit to, when I don't see the deer go down, I go with When in dought back out as my golden rule many times I thought I knew the hit and the blood trail just to make it a hard job by not following that rule Thanks, this has been a great blood trail

From: Buckfever
01-Mar-10
The only reason I picked correctly on #7 is because there was something that I couldn't make out on that section and all the others I couldn't see anything and then I just guessed. I think it's very hard to make out anything clearly on that one.

From: John Scifres
01-Mar-10
I thought it was pretty easy to see where deer is laying.

From: hoytcountry
01-Mar-10
agree with artic and tree rat

From: GAFFER1
01-Mar-10
Guessed correct for a change - but it was only a guess, couldn't really see anything. Of course I can't find them when they are alive either... God I love to hate these things....and using the wrong answer from the last question you found the deer?..lol..makes my head spin..but as I stated before, love to hate these trails...Thanks for continuing the torture...ouch! - hit me again - ouch! - please sir may I have another? - ouch..... How soon till the next one?

From: Bullshooter
01-Mar-10
OK, it's time to WHINE! Not about the answers, but about making us look at that whole Hopey Changey thing! That was cold, Pat. What next, Pelosi in a thong?

From: Sito@Work
01-Mar-10
I couldn't see the deer, but....I think I saw a nipple?

From: eddie c
01-Mar-10
I happen to guess correctly on the picture based on one clue. "the deer stayed on the trail."

I couldnt make out the deer in 20 seconds but noticed what looked to be a rubbed tree.

I would like to get a better look at the picture myself. and I could have done without the 'hokey-pokey' pic myself :P

From: Clutch
01-Mar-10
I sure thought I could see the nose n eyes in the picture I chose--- but evidently not--dang it-- I had a good run on the last 5 ?s

From: bill brown
01-Mar-10
You tricked me again, Pat. I clicked to expand the photo and then I couldn't reduce it to vote. Thanks.

From: strait-aero
01-Mar-10
Only A did I think I saw a portion of the deer...all other parts were devoid of any sign. It was tough to do in only 20 seconds, but I studied it long and hard before blowing it up. This was very tough, Pat.... What next?

From: got_elk?
01-Mar-10
I knew Pat had a thing for Sarah (based on a thread I believe he started a while back), but that photo crossed the line! I have to admit, she does appear to have some shapely legs and that maybe Pat does have some good taste.

From: Knife2sharp
01-Mar-10
How about a choose your own adventure blood trail. Each option you choose can lead you down a different path, and possible some slightly different ones will end is same results, while others will lead to you not finding it.

From: Coldsteel
01-Mar-10
Nope, I could not find that deer in the photo for Clue #7... But like sara, I can see Russia, from my front porch here in Sunny California... LOL

From: HerdManager
01-Mar-10
Let's hope this is the one and only MOAB. The previous trails were educational and the answers had more reasoning and logic behind them. This one is just guessing.

Maybe it's not there, but it really looks like there is a bedded deer in the picture in C, looking right at the camera.

01-Mar-10
I spotted the deer very easily! The ear gives it away!

From: BowSniper
01-Mar-10
In question 6 the first thing you did was go to the fence and look for blood. Ought to be worth partial credit, since that's what you actually did in the field :-)

From: got_elk?
01-Mar-10
my guess for question 8 before it even comes out:

stomach, liver, abdominal muscle

From: GAFFER1
01-Mar-10
Add hair and skin as one of the answers for number 8 and I may have a chance....

From: Brotsky
01-Mar-10
I picked the ear out right away on the 20 second enlargement. Pat's a tricky little devil, you didn't think the whole deer would be laying there did you? ;-)

From: Buckfever
01-Mar-10
"Maybe it's not there, but it really looks like there is a bedded deer in the picture in C, looking right at the camera."

I saw that too, but if you study it again you'll see that those marks are actually on a tree.

From: fuzzy
01-Mar-10
well I am red-green color blind, so I am used to looking for wet shine. I didn't see any! oh well!

From: mrelite
01-Mar-10
I didn't like this question!!!!

From: r.o.creek
01-Mar-10
wow, nice surprise after the 20 seconds.

From: treegeek
01-Mar-10
come lets get to number 8!

From: Ol' Scratch
01-Mar-10
Treerat,

I saw it in 20 sec. and I was not cheating. The key was to determine where the deer was NOT to cut down on the area that you had to search in 20 sec. The next thing was to identify areas/objects that might be a deer to further cut down your area. I had my areas down to the top half of A and C before I even hit the link. I was leaning toward C before, but as soon as I hit the link the black/white triangle jumped out at me. Didn't belong. Also, I didn't need the hint to find the spot of blood. I used the same process of elimination to to narrow it to 2 possibles and perfectly round objects rarely occure in nature on their own, especially dead center in the middle of a leaf.

From: arctichill
01-Mar-10
I used your same strategy Ol' Scratch but you have a much better imagination than me. #8 was a cake-walk.

From: DrTim
02-Mar-10
I certainly did not make the same choices as you did and in all likelyhood would not still. That being said congrads on a great buck and more importantly recovering him after a difficult track. After all what is more important? How it was done or getting the job done? Also next track I will be participating as is a hoot.

02-Mar-10
OK, I have never hunted whitetail deer before so I enjoy seeing these blood trails games. The only one I got wrong was question #8. I guessed at it after looking at the pictures and was relating the deer to a moose. As to question #7 I counted the number of legs, it match the number that a deer has, then I compared the G2 to the picture in question #1 and it was a match. seriously it was the ear that I noticed first.

What a great MOAB. I like to suggest the next MOAB to be a different species, maybe a moose, pig, or ever better an elk?

Pat thanks again. 66 out of 72 I like my score!

From: arctichill
02-Mar-10
dempsterhunter,

What you thought was an ear was a piece of tree-bark. The actual ear is only visible to people blind in the right eye who are wearing 3D glasses and a welder's mask. Good try though!

In all seriousness, thanks for the challenge Pat, and yes I too would like to see a different species as I have never hunted whitetails.

From: lilmeadors
02-Mar-10
Just for the record question 8 is kinda crap, only in the sense that you reward partial credit for answering D. A deers kidney is located at the top of its intestines, not the bottom as the pictures/video showed. A little of the liver, ok, but not kidney

From: FLHogWacker
02-Mar-10
Learn how to shoot and it wouldn't be this hard....Pathetic....and weak.

From: JERSEY BOB
02-Mar-10
This sucks. I'm getting old. I think it's time to take up knitting...

Now that my confidence for Africa is shot to hell (IF my doctor lets me go) I will go to bed.

Yo Pat: Yo ugly and yo dress funny...

From: MA_Bowhunter
02-Mar-10
Pat says the buck went 1000 yards without bedding. This seems to buck the conventional wisdom that a gut shot deer will bed within a 100 yards and die in that bed if left undisturbed long enough. Was this just a fluke, or does the conventional wisdom need some revisions?

From: DurangoL2
02-Mar-10
This was the best blood trial chalenge to date Thanks and keep them comeing

From: Treerat
02-Mar-10
OL' Scratchie, congratulations. You da man.

Eliminate the areas that the deer was not at and focus on the things that were out of place... I guess I was to stupid to do that. LOL Problem is that I saw three things that looked out of place to ME, so I was not lucky enough to pick the right one. Oh well it was fun. Was not accusing you of cheating was just agreeing with archillie that if you got it in 20 seconds you were lucky and I still believe that.

Mike

From: CAS_HNTR@UC
02-Mar-10
I did pretty well, the only questions that I got wrong were No.1, which I still feel was a better shot location; and No.6, which I was/am a bit confused by since it stated that they went up to the fence to check for blood at a crossing...but I guess that wasn't the answer becasue the blood was on the trail...Owell, these are fun!

From: Devilfan
02-Mar-10
Pat, congrats on the buck. Did you ever get a dressed out weight on this deer?

From: Conan
02-Mar-10
Ahhhh! I blew question 8. When I watched the video, I thought Intestine, stomach and possibly the liver because of the blood. When I answered question 8, I went on my knowledge of deer anatomy, and thought that the arrow was too far back for the stomach and liver. That plus the fact that there weren't any stomach contents on the arrow led me to choice "A".

From: Davy C
02-Mar-10
I was able to spot the deer in #7 by first looking carefully at the initial picture and identifying a couple of items that potentially could be deer. I saw something white in "c" that could have been his tail and something brown in "a" behind the branches. When zoomed in I immediately saw the white thing was not a deer and took a closer look at "a" and decided that definately could be a deer.

From: BowSniper
02-Mar-10
Question #8 said to use the pictures and "the prior clues" to give your answer. So I didn't pick any answer that had stomach in the choice, because I don't recall anywhere in the entire story that they saw any stomach contents... even in that large blood spill where it poured out and splattered.

With no stomach contents found anywhere during the story, why would we be picking an answer that included stomach? Trick question?

From: Termin8r
02-Mar-10
At the header for each clue was this. "This bloodtrail is 100% real. All the pictures and steps are as it happened during Pat Lefemine's deer hunt in Saskatchewan, 2009. Good Luck!"

I found a couple of inconsistencies between the actual recovery and this MOAB, especially the initial tracking. Was it 80 yards or 300 yards before you called off the tracking and decided to come back in the morning?

From: Davy C
02-Mar-10
Now that its over, I'm going to critique Pat's MOAB. No whinning hear I'm trying to be totally objective. I liked questions Q6, Q7 & Q8 because the answers were based on what actually happened. I also liked Q5 to give us a perspective of what its like for a colorblind tracker. I did not like Q1 because there really was not enough difference between #3 & #4. I did not like Q2 becuase Pat qualified his answer by saying that staying in the tree all night is not practicle. I would never do that for safety reasons but you could climb down and spend the night at the base of the tree. I also did not like Q4 because of the picture he posted in this discussion. The picture in the question only shows one blood pool but anyone at the scene would have seen the additional blood which would support the abdominal cavity answer. He could have showed us the entire picture and then a close up of the blood pool before asking what happened. Again, thanks Pat for putting this together, I enjoyed it and learned from it.

From: hoytcountry
02-Mar-10
THanks Pat didnt do too good but it was fun.

From: J.E. Travis
02-Mar-10
How do you give partial credit to a response that includes organs high and back in the body cavity when entrance and exits are low middle? Just wondering?

I know I've not killed nearly the numbers of deer Pat has...or many of you guys for that matter. But I sure as heck know where to put an arrow when one comes out, have a darn good idea of what I hit if it's far enough away I see the arrow hit, and can tell by sound most of the time if I don't see it hit if I was in the lungs.

I just don't know about all I see on here sometimes...

From: Bullshooter
02-Mar-10
At the risk of being accused of whining, the "correct" answer I have the most problem with is question #1. Answer #3 looks like lungs, and #4 looks a little far back. And on this buck, the hit was bad because it was a little far back.

Anyway, I am glad you found him. Thanks for a fun test.

02-Mar-10
YAHOO!!!!!!!!!!

I made the Top 10!!!!!!!

From: mrelite
02-Mar-10
Ok then a little it is!

Thanks for the game Pat

JP

From: T Mac
02-Mar-10
Pat, Great Job as always putting this together! I look forward to logging on each morning to answer the question. Well Done! Tom

From: dlpassthru
02-Mar-10
Thanks Pat, loads of fun while drinking my morning coffee. Could you post the large picture of the deer in the brush for us? I got lucky on that one and would like to see it again. Thanks again

From: flinger1
02-Mar-10
only 3 for the last one , knew it got intestines and stomach , but thought the shot was a little too low for liver , if it just caught the tip i wasnt to far off !

From: BowTech130
02-Mar-10
I thought the same as flinger1, the dark blood on the arrow made me think liver, but the enter and exit wounds looked too low. Was doing great until the last question. Still loved the game! Thanks Pat

From: mrelite
02-Mar-10
Was that nick on the exit side Pat?

From: Griz34
02-Mar-10
Pat, great challenge, I always love these and this one was fun as always. I do however say you are wrong about question 1. I look forward to the next one. Thanks again!

From: Jimbob
02-Mar-10
Thanks for the fun game. I have learned some information from these blood trailing games but for the most part its for the fun of it.

From: Roger J
03-Mar-10
"YAHOO!!!!!!!!!! I made the Top 10!!!!!!!"

If this is truly the case then I see quite a few MOAB sequels in your future Grunt-N-Gobble..! LOL

From: Davy C
03-Mar-10
You know what might be fun is a turkey blood trail. I'm not sure you could call it a blood trail since they rarely leave much blood and it would probably be a pretty short quiz, since a turkey that goes more than 100 yds is usually not recoverd but it might be fun to analyze a shot and guess how it was recovered.

03-Mar-10
Roger J - It is the case...... You can look it up for yourself. I might have scored better than #10 if I hadn't gotten a "3" on the first question. Scored "9's" after that.

I've been on a few difficult blood trails in the last few years, a couple of my deer and a couple from friends. I'm by no means an expert, but I've stuck to it when others were ready to give up. I've learned alot from those trails and I'm just applying my knowledge here. I also take into account Pat's trickery when he does these challenges.

(EDIT) I have to take that back........I just went back and check, and I'm no longer in the top 10 as others answered questions after my last one and had higher scores. Oh well............ Still did pretty good.

From: 12yards
03-Mar-10
This whole MOAB would have been a lot easier if you'da made a better shot at the get-go. Sheesh Pat! What are you? Human?

From: Coldsteel
03-Mar-10
This was fun, thanks for the trivia Pat... started out promising (3 for 3) for me but got stuck in a slump. Then went (0 for 4). But hit one out of the park with the last question... Ended with a 500 score...

From: Buckfever
03-Mar-10
Thanks Pat, for putting this together!!!

From: ELFKING
04-Mar-10
PAT What I would like to know is what your color blind buddy thinks of different camo patterns......

From: CThunter
04-Mar-10
That was a fun exercise. I answered the question to the best of my knowledge and did fair.

From: polar@work
05-Mar-10
My synopsis for this bloodtrail is this:take into consideration the title MOAB into each question,take your time considering each question,above all use your sixth sense.It was pretty straightforward as I have had memorable bad hits also in the past 20yrs.If you bowhunt for that many years a long trail will come sooner or later.Scored well using my personal experience with alot of Divine insight.When is MOAB2 gonna come along?

From: DAVE IN PA
05-Mar-10
I got a 54. Thanks Pat for sharing and way to go on your recovery.

From: Long Hunter
05-Mar-10
I ended up with 45. I either got a 9 or a 0 on every question. Felt pretty good about my choices when I made them. Took a WAG on the picture with the deer, I could find nothing that looked like any part of a deer.

I really enjoy these exercises and learn a bit from each one. After 40 years of deer hunting with bow and gun I have had some MOABs myself. Keep these coming, they are fun and educational.

From: Ak49
10-Sep-11
Autopsy normally reserved for use in humans, necropsy normally used to describe dissection of "animals". I didn't do so well on this one had to find something to whine about!

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