VPa Terminator broadheads
Equipment
I just shot the vpa terminator 125 non vented coc broadheads and was very impressed! The first shot was at 25yds into my Rinehart broadhead buck. I took aim at a virgin part of the kill zone and hit exactly where I was aiming the arrow penetrated through the vitals with the broadhead and 1/2 of the arrow sticking out the back. Next shot was 35 yds same results just a little less arrow sticking out the back. They are machined from a solid piece of steel and seem very strong. The things fly like darts and really penetrate I think I found my 2010 broadhead. By the way I'm only pulling 65lbs.
They make a great head they also make the Wensel Woodsman I got some 125 WW heads and did a penatration test against 2 and 4 blade stingers. I do not want to take anything away from magnus they are the best but this head penetrates like a 2-blade it is a amazing broadhead. I am having a hard time deceiding on the one to use for elk this year. Widow
I spoke with him earlier in the week and ordered a pack of the 125 grain. I have had great success with the WW and Snuffer out of my longbow, but have always wanted a similar head that is non-vented, this could be it if it shoots well out of my Strother Inspire. They should be here any day to test. It would be great if it came in SS, he said maybe in a year.
Got my Terminator heads and they shoot well. I think that I will have these in my quiver along with some 4-bladed Buzzcuts.
Awesome head. If they would advertise more that they make a short, compact head for compounds, I think they'd sell a ton.
One piece, 3 blade, no vents for noise, 1 1/8", easy to sharpen, and machined steel - not molded! It seems bombproof! I haven't used them on a critter yet but they fly awesome. Not excessively expensive either.
VPA, if you are listening, promote this head! It has it all.
I just sharpend up 6, 175 grain non vented. these are razor sharp easy to do. will shave big globs of hair off my arm with one stroke. can't wait to put one thru a bull moose this fall.
How about postin' up a pic or linky?
Sounds good howler so fill me in on the best way to sharpen these heads.
TANKS for Duh linky! They looks purdy good!
I have a diamond stone a fair sized one 325 grit and 600 grit blue dot is the 325
red dot is the 600 
what I do is to lay the broad flat on the 325 stone and in a circular motion i make about 50 rotations, with medium to light pressur per side, I do this instead of a straight push pull motion I then move to the blue dot or 600 grit and do the same then I rotate each side with very light pressue 5 times. then I strop it on a leather pad 15 time each side and then 5 times per side and then 2 times per side it is like a razor at this point 
Thanks Howler I'll try it that way.
They fly great. I am going to sharpen one up tonight. A stainless steel version might me nice to. I have had some WW rust in my longbow quiver.
Dealers wanted!!! We have recently redesigned the packaging and the newest versions are much sharper from the factory than previously.... and as noted in the thread, they are re-sharpened easily, 2 edges at a time with a few passes on a flat stone. The are available in weight ranging from 100-300gr. Visit us at the 2011 ATA show in Indy booth#3651.
[email protected].
VPA or vantage point archery is a manafacturing company I am a machinist for. They have no sales team. Advantage-archery.com is the retail and distributor. We take great pride in making precision archery products and would love to have more stores sell our product so any help you could give me to get in your local retailer would be great! PS thanks Francis for your purchase!
P.S. we also have an awesome small game head called the Thumper. We are looking into Stainless heads but the design is tricky they are hard on the cutting tools and are too costly at the moment but we keep trying! So to keep rust down on the blades spray with cooking spray.
I'm using the 200gr this year for elk out of a 55# longbow. I start with a file then finish with 1000 and then 8000 grit waterstones....the hair flys off. Very good bevel out of the package, only takes me about 5 minutes to get it shaving. The non vented are silent in flight. I had some hissing on the older vented WW's.
these heads have really got me interested; looks bombproof
Rayzor and damonh2, please check your PM's.
I plan to use the 125 grain heads this season. They fly awesome and really easy to get sticky sharp. I would think the non-vented blades would make them a bit tougher then the Snuffer SS and quieter if that makes a difference.
Had great results with them shooting into pine 2"x6" boards. They held up well. I like the Snuffers, but believe these will be a little stronger due to the non-vented blades. Too bad they don't come in SS.
just ordered 6 from Morrison Archery: 12 ought to do me for a few years
I just can't seem to get an edge on my 125's. I went to Howlers link and followed BB sharpenind directions to a T and can still run my finger down the edge without so much as a scratch I even bought good stones as suggested. If anyone has imput to help me learn how to get a good edge on them I would be most grateful.
Fran, Not sure why you are having challenges. The VPA heads are much easier then the Snuffer SS to make a sticky sharp edge on based on my experience. Use the coarse stone/diamond to get the angle uniform and then work your way up to the fine stone with light strokes in only one direction. You can finish on a leather strop to to polish the edge.
The Terminators are great looking heads and the one that I will be calling on this fall.
Regarding sharpening, when I first started with Snuffer sharpening I had a couple of issues. The most common mistakes I seem to make are as follows:
- The edges get lopsided. If you aren't well versed with sharpening or can't keep track of your strokes or pressure you may notice that the edge is not in the center of the blade when you finish sharpening. Looking at the blade from the rear it should look something like /\, the edge needs to be in the center for the length of the blade.
- Consistent strokes may put too much effort into some blades and not enough into others. You have to be sure that you are actually working the entire edge of the blade and actually removing material. A great check is to use a permanent marker, like a Sharpie, to paint the blades in ink, then as you work the edge you will be able to see if it is in fact flat and if you are removing material from the entire length.
- Too much pressure. It took me a while to realize that I did not need to use very much pressure. In a post from a while back I remember someone (BB?) talking about being able to hear when the blade is sharp and it is true you can hear it getting sharp IF you let up on the pressure a bit, but if you need that satisfying grinding sound you may continue to use lots of pressure and your blade will not be as sharp as it could be. Also, in the general sense using lots of pressure tends to create less even pressure about the head. More strokes at lower pressure seems to serve me better than few strokes with lots of pressure.
- Uneven pressure. The Sharpie has been helpful to me here as well. I have trouble sometimes getting the pressure even from left to right and front to back. But through regular inspection of the blades and the removal of the marker I am able to get a little feedback on how even my pressure is. The pressure thing is not trivial, pay attention to how you are holding the head, where pressure is being exerted and play with different hand positions to find the one that works best for you.
- Patience. Sharpening broadheads takes a bit of effort, but the payoff is that you can shoot the EXACT same head while practicing and then sharpen it for hunting....talk about a boost in confidence!
FWIW, I like to start with sandpaper. I usually start with 80 grit sandpaper taped to a very flat surface (glass is good) and take just five or so strokes per side. The first step is just to be sure that the angle I am using and the one on the blade are the same, use the Sharpie and move on when you see that you are in fact working the whole blade with each pass. I then proceed to use BB's instructions and then finish on something stupid fine like 1500 or a ceramic stick.
Thanks for the positive posts guys. I just want to be clear I am not bashing VPA I love the heads it's all on my dumb ass I just can't seem to get the hang of it but I'm a persistent bugger and I know once I have it down the payoff will be great. Thanks, Fran.
These heads scare me! Unbelievably tough and wicked sharp. Watch out critters!
I was already committed to buying the 100 grain vented. My 65 lb z7 and goldtip combo shoots 100 grain great, and I only hunt whitetails so see no reason to change head weight at this point. I have asked this question before - what is the big deal with vented blades? I have shot muzzy's for several years and never noticed anything. Are people concerned that this noise will spook game before they get hit by the arrow? Can someone shed some light on that one little negative on vented blades which frankly I don't get. I am shooting solid blade Trophy Takers now and they are awesome as well, but definitely trying the VPA 100s too...
Thinking about giving the solid 150's a try.
I have been using the 125's and love them. Very easy to get sticky sharp if you follow the directions above. I use 3 DMT stones to get a mirror edge. I may also jump up to the 150 grain head. They are the strongest head that I have tested. There is a head made by VPA for Red Feather Archery that is identical but has a single bevel edge which I use as well.
Jack Harris, I shoot the 100 Gr. and have no issues out of my compound. In fact they fly just like my field tips as far as accuracy. I can tell you this buck in the photo had no problems with any noise until it zipped thru his ribs.
Just ordered a pack of the 125 grain VPA terminators to give them a try. Have always used replacement blade broadheads, so I guess I will have to purchase a flat diamond stone if I like them.
I still have all but one of my original 12 heads i bought last spring to shoot from my 55# longbow. Shot 4 toms, 1 hog, a ton of foam, a bunch of small game, 4 deer and shoot one into the dirt from the treestand almost every sit I hunted with the longbow, which averaged about 200 sits this season. Only one had any real damage, the very tip was chipped tip, I fixed with a file.....I lost the one i no longer have
That is supposed to read 200 shots, not sits, probably only hunted 70-80 days with the longbow this year.
yea these broadheads are tough. I have been shooting and my target cannot stop my arrow so my broadhead is slamming into the frozen ground rocks and all. And the VPA still spins true. You dont see that with other broadheads i have tried.
Bowhunter, I've found the best sharpening results by using a little diamond hone tool called a Jewellstick. You can buy them at 3Rivers Archery. They even make a pack model that fits inside it's handle and is light and portable. I think it is easier than a flat stone and more handy to carry. It's a handheld sharpener and you just stroke it across two blade surfaces at the same time. A few strokes, rotate, and repeat with lightening pressure. In less than a minute it will be shaving sharp. When I really dull one out after many shots ina target or nick the blades from rocks or what not, I first use a flat Grobet file, also available at 3Rivers. VPA now has some sharpening videos on their website too.
I saw the sharpening videos and appreciate the suggestion of the Jewelstick. I will look into it. Sounds a little more convenient than a flat stone. I was a tad concerned about the overall length of the head because it is hard to tell from their pictures on their website.
Concerned they are too short or too long? All I know is I shoot the 125 too and they have no problem blowing through everything I have shot them at, including elk.
The Small Game Thumpers fly pretty darn sweet too. Helped me win a Rabbit Tournament last weekend. I was impressed when I missed a couple of rabbits and smacked some rocks. If I was still using Judo tips they would have been bent or smashed. I picked up my arrows and not even a chip out of my Small Game Thumpers. Very Impressed!
How much do these heads cost for the vented 100 grain?
$39.95 - go here http://www.rayzor-vpa.com/
FYI: VPA Broadheads is in the process of becoming a Bowsite sponsor. Their link will be up soon. Charlie
I see Lancaster has them in their catalog for $34.95/3 pack
The best way to sharpen the heads (and I am a bh sharpening fanatic) is to use a quality file from base to tip say 3 strokes per side rotating the head so all sides get an equal number. The go to the stubby jewelstik as sold by 3Rivers Archery supply doing the same. In reality I often start with 5 strokes per side then three, then one. However, you want to do a consistent number per each side. The key is having a really good quality swedish type of file as to start things out and you'll have to look around to get one. Both my file and the jewelstik are approx. the size of a toothbrushes so the system is easy and small.
This buck was taken with a 7/8" 175 gr. VPA prototype. Actually, I think this head due to the low profile would be very popular with compound shooters who might prefer an even narrower head and I hope they renew production. I also like a low profile head when I use my longbow and despite the smaller diameter, it left a tremendous/short blood trail. VPA heads are the best heads in the last 40,000 yrs....absolutely bullet proof.
Here's the system I started with. I now use just the top file and the 3Rivers jewelstik instead of the two DMT files but they both work; the jewelstik gives a finishing edge a bit quicker.
Here is the 7/8" lower profile VPA after being shot directly into a cinder block. Not minimal damage to tip. VPA if you are listening, please bring back this lower profile model!
The Terminator heads and the SGT by VPA are Awesome
I took 6 with me last year whilst guiding out in South Africa and put them to work, I used the same head to kill all the animals i shot, Puled it out of the dirt after the pass through, onto the diamond stone and a quick touch with the jewl stick and back into the quiver.
If you'v been looking for the Strongest 3 blade out there the VPA has it all
Im using the 300gr Screw-in Terminators matched with the 300gr SGT for the camp meat
SGT did there work for the day.
Warthog, you are making us all jealous! I love the VPA head. RFA also essentially takes the VPA and puts a single bevel edge on it called the Phoenix. I love that head too. It is the same identical head except for the edge and it is dipped in red teflon instead of black.
Some claim they wish it came in SS... I have not read one bad review yet, based on the current type of steel. Toughness and sharpness do not seem to be an issue. How will SS make these tougher, fly any better, kill any quicker, or sharpen any better?
SS would be harder to sharpen and more expensive and these heads are already bombproof. The only suggestion I have is to offer smaller heads to round out the lineup which already is impressive.
Correction: In my pic above of the lower profile VPA shot into cinder block, it should read "NOTE minimal damage to tip".
I can't find these on Lancaster Archery supply or 3 Rivers... I guess they sold out... i wanted to order..
I think I have to give these a try as I have yet to see a head be "re-usable" here, depending on where you hunt. Some do better than others, mostly replaceable blades, you just gotta be lucky and hit a soft spot.
These do look nice.
Damonh2, Are these truly machined from one solid piece of steel? The manufacturing cost to do this seems to high for the selling price. If so, what type of steel and what hardness?
Dealers are here: http://tiny.cc/qzpb1
Kawabunga, trust me they are definitely reusable although if you skipped it over rocks the very edge probably would get distorted to not being perfectly resuable except practice or bunny hunting. But dirt, trees, etc. are no problem. To resharpen, use my file method combined with Jewelstik. Usually, you will have to use more filing to get back to sharp than with a new head, but it's never taken me more than a minute or two. With a three blade that is so uniformly made, all you have to do is keep the file in contact with the broadhead blades to keep even pressure. It's like a built in sharpening guide.
It's too bad everyone doesn't use VPAs because broadhead failure would be a thing of the past.
Thanks David - I got 'em, they are on the way... 100 grain. Can't wait to shoot and sharpen them. If an account rep wants to send me a PM, I can put them in contact with my local pro shop. There are a TON of bowhunters in my area (too many, actually). Would be nice to see terminators the shelves. They carry NAP Hellrazors which seem to sell very well, and are very similar.
Here is their link to purchase!
Thanks David, I've used the ss Snuffers and like the ease of sharpening using flat stones. My main concern is ferrule strength, the 150gr looks thick all the way through into the insert, just had a lot of heads start wobbling after what I thought were hits they should have survived.
Thanks for the links, James.
how do the 100gr Terminators compare strength wise to say the Snuffer ss, Hellrazor and Montec?? Are they worth giving up the warranty of the snuffer ss?
The best prices I have seen for terminators are lancaster and Morrison Archery and Big Jim all I think are 34.95 for 3
Nitro 1970:
If anyone is advertising at a price lower than $39.95 it is likely an old posting and the pricing is in viiolation of VPA's Authorized Dealer agreement. They currently are not listed on VPA website as an authorized dealer. The current MSRP is $39.95. I'm not sure they would have them availble at the old price. We stand behind our products when they are purchased from and authorized dealer. If you are unhappay with the product performance and they have been purchased from an authorized dealer, we will replace or refund your purchase. If they are purchased from someone other than an authorized dealer the same warranty does not apply.
"how do the 100gr Terminators compare strength wise to say the Snuffer ss, Hellrazor and Montec?? Are they worth giving up the warranty of the snuffer ss? "
The terminators are in a class all their own. They are a solid piece of machined steel whereas other heads are welded. The welds are what typically fail and result in a busted head.
As far as giving up the warrantly...Yes the VPAs are worth it. I believe so at least. No need for a warranty when you are dealing with such a tough head. I have used Magnus products for years. Warrantly was great, but once I shot and used a VPA 125 I was blown away.
Wild Bill: They are truly machined from one piece. The material grade is not disclosed other other than it made of tool grade steel. If someone wants to spend the money to send them to a lab they can find out the grade. The Rockwell hardness is appropriate for edge retention without being brittle. Everyone involved in VPA has a background in Steel and or Machining. The material and heat treating processes were reviewed by top Steel Industry professionals with Phds and 30+ years experience in application. The material and processing is spot on.
They do look good and hopefully prove to be. Lord knows there are plenty of crappy designs being foisted on bowhunters nowadays. Too many (especially young) bowhunters seem to think if it's new and has some catchy avertising it must be the "best". Two years later most are off the market. So here's hoping these prove to be a good solid design.
Rayzor
We need to get them at dealers here in Oregon. They look great but need to be readily available locally. Are you setting any dealers up here in the Northwest yet?
I received my 125 grain Terminators over the weekend and shot about a dozen arrows into my target with them. They are spot on with my field tips and I shot at 20, 30 and 40 yards. One thing I noticed is that they are about as loud as a field tip going through the air. All I heard was my helical feathers sizzling down range. They are roughly the size of the G5 Montec and after the dozen shots into the foam, they could still cut a stretched rubber band with minimal pressure and drag. It appears I'll be ordering my Jewelstik and another pack or two of heads.
recurve, they've already proven to be the real deal. Notice how many times I've posted here. I'm a perfectionist and critic, but when a product this good comes along, I promote it. VPAs arguably are the best bhs ever invented, at least they are better than anything I have ever seen and I've been in archery a long time. The only criticism I have is that I would like to see the lower profile VPA made available again. Awesome flight even with smaller fletching.
They look like the MA3 broadhead. 40 bucks for 3 is a bit pricey!
I think the best thing about Terminators is that they are not a new design like so many gimmicky heads out these days. The 3 blade cut on contact head is time tested. This is just taking a proven design and building them with the best construction process available today, CNC MACHINING. There are other heads out there that may look similar, but they are either poured, cast metal, or welded together. Obviously, no cast metal product, nor one brazed together, is going to be as inherently strong as one machined from a solid block of high quality steel.
To compare, I put a very popular similar broadhead that is cast metal in a vice and beat on it with a mini sledge. It snapped off with the first light whack. Then I did the same thing with a Terminator and it barely even bent with several hard whacks. It's the real deal.
I've always said that the perfect broadhead would be a compact, 3 blade, COC, that is made from machined steel. Until VPA, this didn't exist. There is no tradeoff with this broadhead. You can have strength, sharpness, excellent flight, cutting diameter, and reusability without any sacrifices.
Cazador, most premium heads are about $40 for 3 now. Unless you are losing them, expect a handful of these broadheads to last a long, long time. They are virtually indestructible. The cost is spread out and you don't need replacement blades. I think they are quite economical in the long run.
David Alford, what do you mean by lower profile?
The 85-125 gr heads are quite compact and low profile. They are designed for modern compounds at high speed. They are no bigger than other comparable heads like Montec, Snuffer SS, or Hellrazors. I know several guys shooting them well over 300 fps with perfect flight.
There is another head that is just as strong as the terminator. It is the Phoenix by Red Feather Archery. VPA makes them for RFA. The only difference is that the Phoenix has a single bevel edge and is dipped in red teflon instead of black. You can really get a nice steeper edge in a single bevel, but we are slitting hairs. I love the Terminators too.
It would seem a single bevel three blade would be much harder to sharpen than a double bevel.
RJ Hunt,
I have contaced Ken at The Outdoorsman in Ontario, Or and Mike at Idaho Archery Co. in Boise, Id. about becoming dealers. Both did not show much interest and I think they will regret not being on the forefront in carrying the best built head in their shops. Word is getting out.
"Cazador, most premium heads are about $40 for 3 now."
That may be true, but there are still many "Premium" heads that sell for 30-35 bucks for 6. I'm sure its a great head, but not at that expense.
"but there are still many "Premium" heads that sell for 30-35 bucks for 6"
Once piece heads? Machined steel that is virtually impossible to break or even bend, and very reusable? Surely there are less expensive heads, but of equal quality and durability? They might be more than some other heads up front, but when a dozen heads would literally last for years, the cost over time is probably far less than other broadheads.
Heck, some broadheads these days are $40 for a pack of 3, and then you have to pay $20 more for a pack of replaceable blades!
SDHNTR, if you read my earlier comments and pics you'll see I had an earlier version of the VPA that was 7/8" vs. 1 1/8". I personally preferred the lower profile and am sort of campaigning for them to bring it back to round out the line up. I know many do like the 1 1/8 and are getting great flight, just stating my case for the lower profile. I also gave some suggestions regarding the ferrule and I think they used that although maybe they had already decided to do so.
Cazador regarding the MA3 vs. the VPAs, the difference is day and night. The VPAs are a bit pricey but so are many other bhs these days and the difference is the VPAs are going to last longer, so the value is there.
Ah, smaller cutting diameter, I get it. I thought you meant smaller overall size, like the Terminator compact heads for compounds. That is what I think of when I hear "low profile." It's funny, some guys say they want less cutting diameter, some guys say they want more. I personally think 1 1/8" is about ideal. To each their own. Glad you like the heads David.
I have to agree with Cazador. I have no doubt they're nice heads, but $80 for six? I'll have to take a pass. The heads I shoot are less than a third of that price, and will more than withstand impact with anything inside an animal.
Rayzor:
I was just listing the price in their 2010-2011 catalog.
No big deal to me but: how do the 100gr Terminators compare strength wise to say the Snuffer ss, Hellrazor and Montec?? Are they worth giving up the warranty of the snuffer ss?
Nitro, while those are also great broadheads and definitely proven, the difference is the construction. The Terminator is precision CNC machined from one solid block of tool grade steel. The Helrazors and Snuffers are welded together and the Montecs are cast. I can't tell you whether that is worth giving up a warranty or not, but VPA will stand behind their product. If you have a problem, they will make it right.
The compound market may represent the biggest potential market and if I was doing marketing for VPA I would go after it with a lower profile bh, but you need some sales copy/explanation. W/o a doubt many guys feel trad. bhs won't fly well out of really fast bows and while in truth, good tuning can solve this issue as you noted, not everyone is so motivated.
This has been the biggest reason why so many shoot expandables - easier to tune to field points. I'd go with that deep sentiment and market the 7/8" version. And, it probably actually will fly and group better at long distance, which again appeals to the compound market.
That said, I just think it also matches up better with trad. longbows and certainly with smaller feathers. There is something of a trend now in trad. archery to get away from the big 5.5" feathers and go lower.
Rayzor-VPA.com is now a Bowsite Sponsor and sells Vantage Point Archery products. VPA is currently the only production manufacture of a 3 blade broadhead that is machined solid in once piece from high carbon tool grade steel. They are heat treated for maximum strength and Teflon coated for increased penetration and corrosion protection. Additionally there is the newly release VPA Spur, a specialized turkey broadhead. They are designed for rapid deceleration on impact which generates maximum energy transfer. They are manufactured in the with the same one piece machined construction as the VPATerminators. Both have a 1 1/8" Cutting diameter. SGT Small Gme Thumpers are also designed for rapid deceleration on impact to transfer engery to the target. The have 5 forward cutting edges. All products sold in 3 packs. See website for pricing and options. Rayzor-VPA.com
RJ Hunt
I have spoken with the Bowtech Pro Shop but have not yet set them up as a dealer. Have your dealer contact me through at my [email protected] email. Or you can buy direct from rayzor-vpa.com as the site is a full line stocking dealer and rarely have to back order. If so only for a few days.
Nitro1970:
I will be the first to admit any of our competition's broadheads will kill game if they are put in the right place or they wouldn't be in business. I, nor anyone at VPA is in business to bash other companies' products and we wish them well. That said, VPATerminators are the toughest broadhead in the industry. I will put them up against any production broadhead, Monotec, Snuffer or otherwise. As far as warranty goes, I'm not sure what Snuffer offers, its apparently good or you wouldn't mention it. VPATerminators' warranty is this: If you purchase them from an authorized dealer, and have a problem with them, they will be replaced or refunded. I don't see how a warranty can be any better than that.
Wasn't looking to bash anybody's product. I like every single one that I've mentioned and no doubt about it they ALL will kill easily if put in the right spot.
I guess I'll just have to do like I did with the other heads and that would be to order a pack and see what the fuss is about.
Razor
Sent you an order. Look forward to testing them out.
i wish they would make a 2 blade, with the same type of construction.
I promise you won't be disappointed using any of VPA's products. I started using the 100 grain Terminators last year and to say "impressive" would be an understatemant. They are extremely tough and fly awesome. Tough to beat!
VPA SPUR??? Might just have to get me some of those to try on an old longbeard in April. I have had good success with my Terminator 100's and my SGT's. So I am just as excited to try out the SPUR's!!
I have to say I like the heads they sharpen up nice. Seem very tough on the blade end but. I have had a couple snap at the thread line after shooting game
MadDog:
As I have stated here before, we stand behind our products and will refund or replace any that fail.
I'm looking at sharpening options for the Terminator head on 3RiverArcherySupply and noticed they have a Jewelstik flat diamond stone in either fine (1,800) or medium (600) course grit. I like the idea of the flat stone over the stubby stik because it seems it's more idiot proof for beginners. My question is would the fine 1,800 grit stone be the better choice if only looking for one stone for these broadheads?
Thanks
BH
I usually use the Flipstick Sportsman model since it's easy to keep in my pack. I also have the Stubby one and it works good too. Both are great for a quick and easy touch up.
For a flat stone, I'd use something fine. I don't have any experience with the Jewellstick stones, but I've used a hard Arkansas stone and some oil with good success too.
Just remmeber to use light, even pressure and count your strokes to keep them even on each side.
Bowhunter, a flat stone is not more idiot proof in actual use. Go to the Vantage Point site and watch the sharpening video and duplicate what they are doing.
Thank you and I did. I just figured the flat stone would be easier to keep consistent pressure and surface contact on the blades. Not to mention the correct angle too.
Flat stones are the way to go. These VPA heads get really sharp! The stone I have is a diamond stone 600 grit on one side and 1200 hone on the other side.
I've been shooting NAP Helrazors for a few years now without any complaints. But I also continue to look for improvements. These look like an improvement. Despite what many manufacturers claim in order to sell 'something new', the basic shape of a 3 blade head cannot be improved on. Fortunately, VPA didn't go that route. Machining a BH out of a solid piece of quality steel is a significant improvement over welds and sintering. I'm planning on giving them a try.
David Alford
Maybe a minor point but you said "...expandables - easier to tune to field points." That is a misperception. Mechanicals are NOT easier to TUNE. They just hit the same place as field points whether they are tuned or flying sideways. Nothing is worse than a mechanical that is NOT tuned, as far as penetration potential.
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Awesome...You won't be disappointed with this purchase:)
Rayzor:
I finished testing your 125 grain Terminator on cow scapulas over the last week that I get from my neighbor who is a butcher.
Here are my preliminary observations:
Accuracy: You rival Magnus and SlickTrick; that should say enough.
Penetration: You fell short of the Snuffer SS but only by a quarter of inch. That is saying something as well. Arrow was a Easton Axis 340 FMJ at 70 lbs.
Edge Retention: you were best in class against all three blade heads I have tested. (measurements are made AFTER they have passed through the cow scapula and into a rinehart. I must also add that your broadhead took very little to get shaving sharp again. Kudos for details!
Wound channel: Excellent and as advertised.
Durability: Out right winner. You are without equal. You definitely get what you paid for.
Congratulations on getting a good night's sleep and making a quality product.
What I liked most about the head. It was nonvented so hair is not an issue and that it was Teflon coated-details- love em.
What my very small insignificant gripe was: I would have loved a longer blade and lower profile head.
With broadhead design it is all about trade offs and the Terminator 125 is a nice balance.
I have ordered two packs of 150's and will be testing them next.
Respectfully,
Seminole
Seminole: Thanks for the info and the post. I think you will be quite impressed with the 150s. They are my favorite of the line.
Ray
Interesting test Seminole! Just curious, by what standard did you measure durability?
Just a thought Ray. I also think a 150 gr head is a great choice. However, there are damn few 150 gr. target points available, and none I could find available in different diameters to fit various shafts properly. I had to buy 145 gr and 5 gr washers. Why don't you offer field points to match your BH weights?
For edge retention: A micrometer, and don't laugh but a simple magnifying glass. You would be surprised how many dings, rolled steel, bone in the blade, etc, you have in a blade after it passes through an animal.
To further test I complete a simple static test with rubberbands AFTER it has been removed from the cow scapula. Sometimes the simple redneck version of seeing if it will shave hair is done. VPA did all three well.
For penetration: a simple measuring tape will do.
For cutting diameter: Measuring tape and or a drafting compass.
For accuracy: Assuming you have a tune bow, I shoot broadheads out to 80 yards. That may seem extreme but inaccuracies show up. I have my son and another bowhunter across the street shoot with me as well. Mine were in shooting form. grin! I was actually most impressed with the accuracy of this head. I glued on some new blazer vanes last night because the groups were that tight.
These may seem simple tests and instruments and I am not a pro being paid to test, but they have stood the test of time. I think testing broadheads on a real medium you are shooting at is the most important. You are not killing a steal drum, In my case I am shooting elk. A cow scapula and leg are perfect and I have the immediate resources next door to get as many as I need.
I sometimes video on a Sony DVD to see in slow motion. It again is not a perfect test design each scapula and hit is different (as it is in bowhunting), but done repetitively at different angles, up in a tree, sever quartering, you begin to build a library of knowledge about certain types of broadhead capabilities.
For those who would like to replicate these results, please do the following or you WILL suffer serious injury. Lay down a blue 25X25 tarp under your target and test medium (cow scapula and leg). Otherwise you will be digging a piece of shattered bone out of your's or god forbid your child's foot.
Additionally, I would like to thank Woody Sanford for assisting an amature tester in getting it right. There are always strengths and weakness of any study and having a resource on this board as knowledable as him makes testing heads very fun.
The more one tests, the more their preconceived notions change. Many times we shoot one or a dozen animals and think a broadhead is the cat's meow.
Shoot a broadhead a couple of hundred times into a test medium (cow scapula) and then you may have a totally different opinion. That is why I like to discuss broadhead design with guides. They have seen it all many times over. For example: Mule Power has confirmed many of my results from his years of observation in the field. I am also the only one to ever defeat his penetration test- Joe. grin!
Probably the number one thing I have learned from testing heads has nothing to do with broadhead design. It is how to properly sharpen a broadhead so that the highest level of edge retention and sharpness is maintained. I have to credit KME's owner in teaching me how to create a double bevel edge to a broadhead. It takes skill and patience to learn, but once mastered it will make a samauri sword look dull and produce kills not measured in yards but feet.
SDHTR: Anytime you would like me to share any my results with you either in measurements or experience just PM me.
Respectfully,
Seminole
Interesting stuff and pretty complete tests. Thanks. So when you test durability, are you just visually looking at how well the head holds up after going though the cow scapula? Or are you shooting into tires, steel drums, cement blocks, etc.? I'd like to see or hear about some of the damage from heads you've tested. Whate are some of the heads that held up the best and the worst?
Seminole, great test and results. I love the Terminator. The only result that I question is how the Snuffer out penetrated the VPA, even though it was minimal. Since they are so close in design, I see no advantage to the Snuffer. Did you use a 125 unvented VPA or 100? Thanks, great info to reinforce what I saw as well.
SDHTR: You want me to put a target on my back!!! grin! Ok then..
I am looking for edge retention primarily after it has passed through a scapula. Many times we are faced with a situation where we do not recieve a pass through- especially for elk. In that case the broadhead has to remain razor sharp to work and to kill quickly and humanely. One poster INGOZI is a PH in SAF and his sharpened Muzzy BH are so sharp they have literally sliced lobes of lung into pieces from this process.
My first bull elk I shot I did not recieve a pass through and the Stinger I sharpened cut one whole lobe off when he dropped back onto the arrow. He was only alive for nine seconds. sharpness counts folks.
I have actually tried to destroy a VPA 125 on purpose on a cinder block and the VPA won with a slightly worn tip. YMMV.. grin!
Let's look at broadheads in design classes and I enjoy shooting all of these:
Best in Class COC Two blade with bleeder (optional): 125 Magnus Buzzcut, 125 Muzzy Phantom, SteelForce phathead, and the old Silverflame:( sharpest broadhead ever out of the box EVER!) (The Magnus Buzzcut 125 four blade is my preferred head that I shoot) I can put an edge on it like no other but all of the above are excellent.
Best in Class COC 3 blade: Magnus Snuffer SS (love the profile, very sharp), VPA 125 (indistructable, very sharp)), NAP Hellrazor, G5 Montec, and Wensel woodsman elite.
Best in Class punch and cut: Muzzy, Nap Thunderhead, Innerloc, Shuttle T-lock: (once I sharpen it) and even though Oldhootowl and I do not see eye to eye at all Slicktrick. Each has thier unique strengths and weeknesses. All are phenominal heads in my book.
I also firmly believe that no broadhead (except for the old silverflames made in Germany) is sharp enough out of the box. Once sharpening is mastered then we can really only move on.
Broadheads I want to test: The Helix, and The asby heads but I am not made out of money.
BigK: Simple, SS has a longer profile blade. Remember broadhead design is about balance. You may have to give up in one variable to achieve in another.
Besides being a tack driver: VPA will earn it's excellent reputation on being one of the stongest broadheads ever designed and incredibly sharp.
For me, I'd take that trade off with the slightly shorter profile as I think that makes for more forgiving flight and accuracy. With today's modern compounds the ultra slight difference in penetration is moot, IMO.
The sharpening process is one of the most time consuming, read costly, processes in the manufacture of these heads. Although they are very sharp as packaged,we'd like to make them even sharper but the market wouldn't stand the price. The current models are a bit sharper and are made of a higher grade of steel than the earliest ones first released a couple of years back. The changes made them easier to sharpen and retain their edge longer, but you should have heard the comments when the price had to be raised a few bucks as a result of the increased costs.
Old thread but worth reading if you have not tired these. Shot them with some trad guys and was pretty impressed. Bought a pac and so far really happy with them. Will be in my quiver this year.
Great stuff and awesome head.
