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Discuss Dwight's Fitness 101
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
Mark Watkins 03-Jun-11
GRoe 03-Jun-11
NvaGvUp 03-Jun-11
Dreaming Big 03-Jun-11
Bigpizzaman 03-Jun-11
medicinemann 03-Jun-11
Soul Piney 03-Jun-11
city hunter 03-Jun-11
sticksender 03-Jun-11
black525 03-Jun-11
midwest 03-Jun-11
Sarge 03-Jun-11
JLS 04-Jun-11
huntitall 04-Jun-11
fishski1 04-Jun-11
Bowboy 04-Jun-11
ElkNut1 04-Jun-11
PinePoint 04-Jun-11
city hunter 04-Jun-11
NvaGvUp 04-Jun-11
NvaGvUp 04-Jun-11
NvaGvUp 04-Jun-11
Florida`Believer 04-Jun-11
Matt 05-Jun-11
JLS 05-Jun-11
Watts 05-Jun-11
smokey 05-Jun-11
Genesis 05-Jun-11
midwest 05-Jun-11
Whitetailer 05-Jun-11
Genesis 05-Jun-11
NvaGvUp 05-Jun-11
Bou'bound 05-Jun-11
'Ike' - Phone 05-Jun-11
Greg 05-Jun-11
Genesis 05-Jun-11
NvaGvUp 05-Jun-11
nv goat 05-Jun-11
nv goat 05-Jun-11
Greg 05-Jun-11
midwest 05-Jun-11
NvaGvUp 05-Jun-11
nightstalker 05-Jun-11
midwest 05-Jun-11
sisabdulax 05-Jun-11
fishmagician 05-Jun-11
Ruger109 05-Jun-11
blg 05-Jun-11
NvaGvUp 05-Jun-11
KHunter 05-Jun-11
NvaGvUp 05-Jun-11
Dirty D 05-Jun-11
city hunter 05-Jun-11
Sapcut 05-Jun-11
city hunter 05-Jun-11
Tigereye 05-Jun-11
JLS 05-Jun-11
JLS 05-Jun-11
huntingbob 05-Jun-11
city hunter 05-Jun-11
Matt 05-Jun-11
'Ike' 05-Jun-11
JLS 05-Jun-11
city hunter 05-Jun-11
'Ike' 05-Jun-11
kellyharris 06-Jun-11
trophyhill 06-Jun-11
AZBUGLER 06-Jun-11
Whitetailer 06-Jun-11
Lee 06-Jun-11
Owl 06-Jun-11
mn_archer 06-Jun-11
Z Barebow 06-Jun-11
Mad_Angler 06-Jun-11
tthomas 06-Jun-11
Hawkeye 06-Jun-11
mn_archer 06-Jun-11
elkmtngear 06-Jun-11
sticksender 06-Jun-11
2legit2quit 06-Jun-11
Bill in SD 06-Jun-11
longhunter 07-Jun-11
heartshot 07-Jun-11
NvaGvUp 07-Jun-11
kellyharris 07-Jun-11
IdahoBowHunter 07-Jun-11
straightshooter 07-Jun-11
city hunter 07-Jun-11
NvaGvUp 07-Jun-11
Amoebus 07-Jun-11
mn_archer 07-Jun-11
7mag 07-Jun-11
NvaGvUp 07-Jun-11
bullelk 07-Jun-11
mn_archer 07-Jun-11
NvaGvUp 07-Jun-11
SBH 07-Jun-11
Z Barebow 07-Jun-11
JLS 07-Jun-11
JLS 07-Jun-11
nv goat 08-Jun-11
huntitall 08-Jun-11
huntitall 08-Jun-11
huntitall 08-Jun-11
Gobblestopper 08-Jun-11
JLS 08-Jun-11
Whitetailer 08-Jun-11
TREESTANDWOLF 08-Jun-11
NvaGvUp 08-Jun-11
THE ELK REAPER 08-Jun-11
Amoebus 08-Jun-11
kellyharris 08-Jun-11
city hunter 08-Jun-11
NvaGvUp 08-Jun-11
JLS 08-Jun-11
NvaGvUp 08-Jun-11
city hunter 08-Jun-11
mn_archer 08-Jun-11
sunsignarcher 09-Jun-11
Gobblestopper 09-Jun-11
Mtnbikeit 09-Jun-11
Genesis 09-Jun-11
Swamp Buck 10-Jun-11
brunse 11-Jun-11
Blacktail Bob 12-Jun-11
primitve 13-Jun-11
city hunter 13-Jun-11
midwest 13-Jun-11
THE ELK REAPER 13-Jun-11
city hunter 13-Jun-11
JLS 13-Jun-11
hammerhd 13-Jun-11
midwest 13-Jun-11
JLS 14-Jun-11
Blacktail Bob 14-Jun-11
Wild Bill 14-Jun-11
heartshot 15-Jun-11
Jonesy 15-Jun-11
Z Barebow 16-Jun-11
2legit2quit 16-Jun-11
Bobmuley 16-Jun-11
THE ELK REAPER 16-Jun-11
SteelyEyes 20-Jun-11
elkfulr 21-Jun-11
Blacktail Bob 21-Jun-11
David Alford 21-Jun-11
midwest 21-Jun-11
Blacktail Bob 21-Jun-11
Rocky D 21-Jun-11
03-Jun-11
Very good article. It echos what many have been posting on the many fitness threads on the elf board for a couple of years.

Cardio, legs, and core but don't ngelect the upper body.

The only thing I would add is....if you really do all that day in and day out as a way of life. the heck with the diet. A person has to have some vices...mine is ice cream...and beer of course.

From: Mark Watkins
03-Jun-11
Dwight, A great, concise, common sense approach to hardcore hunting fitness (and lifestyle)! Thank you......good stuff!

From: GRoe
03-Jun-11

GRoe's Link
Good stuff from an expert...Thank you for sharing.

I like to add some moderate impact exercises (besides running)broadjumping with medicine ball...or a propane tank...whatever it takes :) or diagonal hops with a medicine ball. For me, balance excercises are a must due to poor ankles.

GR

From: NvaGvUp
03-Jun-11
"We'd also like to hear about your training routines here as well!!"

There's about ten years worth of fitness threads on the elk forum. Originally they were "Exercise Guys" threads. Now they're "Only XX Weeks" threads. The "Git in Shape for Goats" thread on the goat forum last fall was perhaps the best of all.

From: Dreaming Big
03-Jun-11
A good article but doing curls for girls in hunting camp in your spandex seems a bit unnecessary.

I look forward to seeing more bowsite features by Dwight.

From: Bigpizzaman
03-Jun-11
Heard from a great source that Boxing is a way to train for a sheeep hunt!! Just sayin!

From: medicinemann
03-Jun-11
I guess that I am just shocked that the previous editor of a well known bowhunting magazine has "defected" to the ranks of the internet. Pat, this is a major coup for you!! Cha-Ching!!I think that I just heard the value of Bowsite bump up another few digits!!

From: Soul Piney
03-Jun-11
An important part of flatlander training for me is actually carrying some weight in my framepack up and down whatever hills I can find here in Jersey. After my first backpack bowhunt for elk I realized just how hard it is to carry around a bow for 12-16 hours. Now I also try to spend time in the summer hiking with the weight on my back (30 - 50lbs.) And carrying a dumbell. I use a 25lb. dumbell and switch arms frequently. This allows you to strengthen the muscles in your fingers, hands and arms while adding weight overall on your legs. If your arms get tired or the weight is too much, just drop the dumbell and pick it up later.

I really felt much steadier in my shooting after using that technique for a while. And of course a small rock or redbrick can take the place of a dumbell if you practice hike where you wouldn't want to come back for an expensive dumbell. Anyways. . . carry something in your hands. Good luck

From: city hunter
03-Jun-11

city hunter's embedded Photo
city hunter's embedded Photo
haha i disagree 100 percent I never run never, The one and only best way to train for any mountain hunt is train in the mountains not on a beach , not in a gym Put your,bow in hand,binos on and hump around ,,, with your pack this is getting old and boring common sense , If you aint in shape then u really dont belong on a sheep hunt , just waisting money and a tag ..

Shooting skills is the most imporant aspect in Bowhunting training

Please no more spandex pics lol

From: sticksender
03-Jun-11
Good article with sound advice from he who walks the talk.

But another senseless assault on pizza???? This is one of the basic food groups ;-)

From: black525
03-Jun-11
Good read. Covered all the basic points and scaling options.

I stick more to weightlifting, been following Dan Staton's train to hunt site for the past few months. Lots of great workouts on there.

From: midwest
03-Jun-11
The older I get, the more I realize the better shape I stay in, the more mountain hunts I will get to enjoy in the future. Kudos to Mr. Schuh for being in outstanding condition for a 66 year old man.

Shooting skills are the easy part. Staying in peak physical condition takes a tremendous amount of self discipline.

From: Sarge
03-Jun-11
Good read. I met Dwight a few weeks ago at are church's big game feed and he is indeed in good shape. We are the same age and I am ashamed to say that I really really look bad next to him. He is a great speaker and a really down to earth nice guy.

Sarge

From: JLS
04-Jun-11
"The one and only best way to train for any mountain hunt is train in the mountains not on a beach , not in a gym"

Nothing but pure, unadulterated bull$hit there buddy.

Some of us do the best we can without mountains out our back door. I could care less if you run. Don't belittle other people's efforts.

From: huntitall
04-Jun-11
"The one and only best way to train for any mountain hunt is train in the mountains not on a beach , not in a gym"

Nothing but pure, unadulterated bull$hit there buddy.

Totally agree JLS. I use triathlons as my spring/summer training, along with scouting trips into the hills. Once you complete an Ironman race, just about any hunting terrain you encounter is going to be a piece of cake. Congrats to Dwight for keeping in such good shape and helping others to do the same.

From: fishski1
04-Jun-11
"Shooting skills is the most imporant aspect in Bowhunting training"

There is another statement that I disagree with!! Maybe when you are hunting tree stands back east, but whenever I have folks coming out west to try their first elk hunt, this couldnt be further from the truth.

I am not saying you shouldnt know how to shoot, and of course, it is important to practice, but the SINGLE most important aspect of hunting western mountain hunts is to be PHYSICALLY and MENTALLY prepared. I dont care if you can hit dimes at 100 yds, and your last name is Hood, If you bonk, and give up, after 10 miles in elk country, you are not going to be successful.

and for reference, I think for most guys, Mile 10 is somewhere between day 1 and 2.

FISH

From: Bowboy
04-Jun-11
Dwight is a very down to earth guy and is in better shape than most folks half his age.

Dwight never said you had to run just that you'll get the best bang for your buck concerning cardio.

Like stated many time being in shape and mentally tough will make a huge different on most hunts dealing with mountain terrain.

Yes shooting accurately is a must but it doesn't do any good if your not in shape because 10 to 1 you won't hit were you're aiming at after climbing any steep terrain because you'll be out of breath.

From: ElkNut1
04-Jun-11

ElkNut1's Link
Dwight, good stuff there! I thoroughly enjoyed your conditioning tactics, it shows you really have a true passion for hunting & all that goes with it to fulfill yearly goals! Good for you & my hats off to you!

We can all learn from him & see what true dedication it really requires to get in & stay in "Elk Shape" Thanks!

ElkNut1

From: PinePoint
04-Jun-11
I enjoyed the article and in the last year or so have really taken an interest in fitness routines as they relate to hunting.

I didn't grow up in a hunting family. It wasn't until I was 18 years old and off to college that I picked up the bowhunting bug. Initially I found it as a way to fill the time that I used to fill with high school sports, and it didn't take long until I was hooked. During the college years and even my few years of bachelor life after graduation I exercised regularly. I did extensive weight training and moderate cardio and was always in great shape.

Once I got married and we started our family I found less and less time for gym memberships and regular exercise. I spent the next 4 years gaining unwanted weight and put on close to 30 pounds. I found myself getting lazy during the hunting seasons.....wanting to ride a 4-wheeler into the stands instead of trying to slip in undetected. Or if I did try and walk the entire way I would be so soaked with sweat and tired that it made the sit miserable. Add to that the fact it became difficult to keep up with my 1-1/2 old son too.

Long story short, it was at that time I re-committed to getting back in shape and being better able to enjoy my family and my hunting time. I bought a few sets of dumbbells, an exercise ball, a couple elastic bands and made a simple home gym from that. In conjunction, I started alternating some running and mountain bike riding for cardio and of course watched what I ate. In less than a year I had lost the 30lbs, feel great, and plan to keep it that way!

From: city hunter
04-Jun-11
Haa funny i dont think Chuck Adams trained any special way for his hunts. More then anything hunting in tough conditions is a MENTAL game , you either have it in you or you dont .

All guys talk about is how how far u can run HMMM ive never seen an ek die from a bowhunter running it to death, Elk are also a species that even someone disabled can hunt in the right areas,so even the bowhunter thats very out of shape can get a crack at an elk .

My point being to be a well rounded bowhunter for mountain hunting , one needs to have his game together.

1 Fitness to get up and down . 2 Mental for when the times are tough no game , bad weather etc. 3 Shooting skills for when that one shot must count.

Its great some of you guys are in such great shape , but please understand that only a very small group can be as fit as some of you . louis

From: NvaGvUp
04-Jun-11
Hmmmm.

Dwight Schuh says that running is the best way to train for mountain hunting.

Fitness guru and my friend Cameron Haines says that running is the best way to train for mountain hunting.

And lil' ol' me, who's been running marathons and ultra-marathons since 1978 and coaching fitness here for about ten years says that running is the best way to train for mountain hunting.

Ya'll suppose there might be something to this?

From: NvaGvUp
04-Jun-11
Pig Doc,

You totally miss the point. But thanks for playing!

From: NvaGvUp
04-Jun-11
Pig Doc,

No. It's all about passing on to others what I've learned over the years.

What do you do to teach others how to maximize their potential? Being a negative naysayer does nothing to help.

04-Jun-11
I'm so glad to see Dwight writing for us! I've enjoyed his articles for many years in Bowhunter. He certainly is a man to respect. I'm 61 and in pretty good shape but don't run anymore. I thought I was getting too old to keep up with Caneron, but I have no excuse when comparing myself to Dwight! This year I decided not to go chase elk, what a mistake! I miss it already and I've put on 9 pounds. I am convinced that hunting elk every year will ad years to your life, and enjoyable years at that, especially if you train hard. Enjoy the journey.

From: Matt
05-Jun-11
"How many ultra marathons has Bigdan run? I am guessing he has killed more P&Y bulls than any of you fitness gurus."

Unless you are arguing that the # of P&Y elk a person has killed is a proxy for their physical fitness, you have completely missed the point.

From: JLS
05-Jun-11
Bigdan rides a bike to get in shape.

No one ever said you have to be an ultra marathoner to be a good hunter. No one said you have to be an Ironman triathlete.

The "best" workout is the one you can physically do, and will do on a consistent basis. If your knees are shot, then running isn't the "best" workout for you is it? If you can run, get out and do it. If you hate it, find something else you enjoy, and do it. Do weights, bike, swim, hike, XC ski, Pilates, Yoga, P90X, yada yada yada.

If being physically fit adds 1 year or 10 years on your life (or more), then didn't that just make you a better hunter? You can't hunt elk if you're dead.

And show me where Louis/city hunter professed being well rounded in his first post. He stated that shooting is everything. Only after getting called on it did he change his tune to being well rounded.

It is completely untrue that only a small percentage can be highly fit. I am no special talent. I'm not fast. I can't bench 400 lbs like Aaron can. I can't backpack or hike the mountains all summer because I have a job, three kids, and wife with a job. Oh, and I live in the flat lands. But, come September no one will be waiting for me to climb the mountain. And I'll do it all in my running shoes, on my bike, or in my 10x12 home workout room.

If being mentally tough is so important, wouldn't that same mental toughness come from dedication to one's fitness?

From: Watts
05-Jun-11

Watts's embedded Photo
Watts's embedded Photo
We are all not Big Dan, nor Chuck Adams for that matter.

If I were I suppose I woldn't have to be in the shape I'm in to get in farther and higher to hunt "dumber" elk. ;^)

I get one 2 week shot a year to be in elk habitat to learn and hunt elk. Being in the best shape I can be in only will guarantee that I can spend my time doing that and not sleeping my aches and pains away.

50 weeks a year I can talk with elk hunters, research, scout maps, and gather all the intel I can. Doesn't do me as much good though if I spend my time in camp licking my wounds because I'm physically fatigued.

All things being equal, the hunter in better shape stands the better chance of having a great hunt without relying on luck to deliver it.

Great article, BTW!

Watts

From: smokey
05-Jun-11
I always like what Dwight writes. This has good, straight and down to earth message. I wish that he would have talked more about kettlebells though. I have started working with them since I see that they are very basic and show great benefits after a short time.

I do a little trail running but for the most part do not do well running. Like Dwight said, it lays me up if I max out the run. I ride road and mountain bike in the summer and cross country ski in the winter. I had a bowflex years ago but sold it. A nice machine but too expensive now to replace. Use the kettlebells and some squats. No situps since the bells do what I need.

I need to watch what I eat since my weight is too high at this time,. It goes up and down too much.

From: Genesis
05-Jun-11
Great post Watts....I'm proud to call you a fellow treestand hunter from back east...:)

Bigpizza, All in the name of charity of course :)

Enjoyed the feature

From: midwest
05-Jun-11
When I get down to my final years of being able to hunt the mountains, I don't want to be asking myself how many more years I could have hunted if I had taken better care of myself.

From: Whitetailer
05-Jun-11
I have to agree with city hunter on this thread. He usually post some good stuff....

I elk hunted with a runner, I mean this guy, bragged about his 2% body fat etc, and all the runs he went to. He had the Cameron Hanes look, but he did not have the Cameron Hanes MENTAL TOUGHNESS........ He was cryin the blues in 4 days, too hot too wet, too tired, so he headed back down.

You have to LOVE TO HUNT, for one thing. I met a fat guy in Colorado, a local, and how he went up and down every day, was amazing. I would not want to be heavy or anything, but it goes to show you.........

However you young guys will learn this, as you get over 55, you have to change your diet, and work out more to stay in shape.......

I like this article, I think Cameron Hanes adds alot. I work out for one reason, so I can hunt in the fall.....

Its that simple. I follow Mens Health Guide System which I posted on the running thread, using all kinds of muscle confusion exercises, and add a routine daily in the swimming pool..... It works for me.....

By the way Mr. Schuh, I still have your original pack and frame, that you designed, and except for the lower fanny pack part, it is still going strong......

Best In Field to all

From: Genesis
05-Jun-11
I'll take the chubby guy who calls the office to extend his hunt over the Jack Lalane in search of a reason to cut it short any day.

From: NvaGvUp
05-Jun-11
Genesis,

That's certainly true. Better yet however, would be a Jack Lalane type who calls the office to extend his hunt.

The Jack Lalane type will also be able to hunt for many more years than the chubby type.

From: Bou'bound
05-Jun-11
are we really debating if it's better to be in share or not? this is a new benchmark for the bowsite if so.

I think I'll open a thread entitled

"A pack of Cigarettes a day does it matter to your hunting success?"

05-Jun-11
Who's Dwight?

;-)

From: Greg
05-Jun-11
Good sound advice on health and fitness. I can attest to being in good physical condition sure helps with the mental game when hunting the West for elk and mule deer, or sheep, etc. But, for me the quality of life is more important than the quantity. If I were a marine in Afghanistan I would cut out all the crap in life to be a specimen of mental and physical conditioning. I'm just bow hunting elk and deer in the west. It is suppose to be fun, its a sport, its not for survival! I'm in good physical condition for 62 years old, and, at the end of a full day of hiking the mountains, I'm going to have a cold beer and a pizza! Moderation is probably the best advice. Dwight you are spot on, but working out at hunting camp? Seems a bit much.

From: Genesis
05-Jun-11
"Better yet however, would be a Jack Lalane type who calls the office to extend his hunt."

Kyle,if I may use your own statement to answer your statement.

"You totally miss the point. But thanks for playing!"

:)

I'll even submit being nicer to any/all wealthy relatives may impact your "ability" to kill a trophy elk more than training for an ultramarathon.

BALANCE is all I'm sayin'

From: NvaGvUp
05-Jun-11
Greg,

Where the heck are you hunting that allows you to have pizza for supper? ;^)

Genesis,

Given that I don't have any wealthy relatives, nor have I ever had any wealthy relatives, I guess I'm stuck with staying as fit as I can for as long as I can then.

From: nv goat
05-Jun-11
As I have stated before, I don't run. As others on this site always state, you have to run to be in the best shape. Personally getting kind of tired hearing it.

I elk hunt with two other guys- 1)K lives in LA. He rides bikes, plays hockey, and does strength training. 2)P lives at 4500ft. He runs, hikes with backpack, and does pushups. 3)I live at 4500ft. As previously stated I do p90x, Insanity, Asylum, hike with backpack,etc.

When it comes to hunting, we are all tough enough. I couldn't honestly say who is in the best shape. Seems to vary slightly by the day.

Do what works for you. If you are experienced, you know what fit is. I used to workout without a heart rate monitor. Then I got one because everything I read said I needed one. The reality is I don't have to look at a number to know when I am at my anaerobic threshold. I know where it is and what it feels like.

I agree with the balance concept. Go back and read Dave Holt's book- Balanced Bowhunting. As others have said, the real key is mental toughness. With that you want your body ready to do whatever you want. Anybody can be their best.

From: nv goat
05-Jun-11
BTW I have tremendous respect for Dwight Schuh. His open country mule deer book made a huge difference in my life. I have spoken with him on several occasions. I find him to be honest and down to earth. I am glad to have him on board this website.

From: Greg
05-Jun-11
Beer and Pizza! Just a figure of speech. Don't eat pizza and drink beer at the end of the day hunting elk and mule deer, but will when I get home! My point being that it is o.k. to indulge a little for a quality life. But, it just depends on your take on life.

From: midwest
05-Jun-11
Your right, Greg. Moderation is key. I'm smoking a brisket today and going to have slow cooked baked beans, kicked up mac and cheese to go with it for dinner. Definitely a couple beers, too!

When I limit these kinds of meals to just once in awhile, I enjoy them all the more.

From: NvaGvUp
05-Jun-11
Greg,

I eat 'pizza and beer' pretty much seven days a week.

From: nightstalker
05-Jun-11
Being in physical shape allows one to enjoy the chase more (less soreness, less recovery time), allows you greater flexibility in case of emergencies in remote areas, allows for more confidence in pursuit(stay on a track longer, extend range in rough terrain), usually allows for a steadier aim under pressure/stress, and usually allows for less food/water requirements (body acclimates faster because of prior training). These are some characteristics I have notice from hunting elk/muleys with fat, average, and athletic friends over the years. I have also noticed some fat friends can hang with the athletic friends in terms of shooting ability and mental toughness but not in the recovery and food/water requirement category:)

From: midwest
05-Jun-11
We aren't ALL ectomorphs, Nva!

From: sisabdulax
05-Jun-11
I personally like Dwight's article. I like the simplicity of it. Personally I am not a fitness guru and have no desire to be one. I do like to walk and would try to jump up to running. Thanks for the article Dwight hope to read a bunch more from you.

Mike

From: fishmagician
05-Jun-11
A simple guide to working out, well done and to the point. Many of us older guys also have to keep in mind some of the old injuries that we sustained can become a renewed problem with over doing it. Re-injuring yourself or making yourself sore as all get out before the hunt is counterproductive. I don't run any longer, why, my knees won't take the pounding. Walking is far better for me in the long run and they hold up on the hills. Each of us should train for those mountain hunts as best his body will allow. Push an old sore joint too much and you may have wasted your money in the draw. There are a few things like walking sticks or poles can help out a great deal for those of with difficult knees. The article was meant to help us out and helping each other out is something we should all do....Knocking one another is not what this forum is for..

From: Ruger109
05-Jun-11
I think for us older guys, the best cardio exercise is to load a pack and walk bleachers or some other up/down areas.

I believe that running (especially hard surface)is too hard on the knees.

Other than that, strength training.

Drop a few pounds and you will be impressed at how much better your cardio is.

From: blg
05-Jun-11
If my physical condition was to good I would never be able to convince my sons they better do the packing.lol

Actually I do several solo hunts a year, and at 56 I now have to work alot harder to stay in hunting shape. My routine has slipped somewhat, this is a good reminder to get moving again.

From: NvaGvUp
05-Jun-11
Pig Doc,

Who here has EVER said you need to run ultras to be a successful elk hunter?

Not me. Not Dwight. Not Cameron.

From: KHunter
05-Jun-11
Nice article and a great addition to bowsite to have Dwight on here.

From: NvaGvUp
05-Jun-11
KHunter,

Agreed. While I've never met the man, I know a few who have. They all say he's totally genuine and interested in helping others learn. That's pretty much all I need to know.

From: Dirty D
05-Jun-11
Dwight has been one of my heros since before I can remember. Great to see him contributing to Bowsite! Looking toward to future articles...

Man you guys like to argue...

From: city hunter
05-Jun-11
not really but if we all agreed the world would be a boring blah place, lol

From: Sapcut
05-Jun-11
To get in shape for hunting out west for elk for instance, running would be my absolute last thing I would do. There are much better options in my opinion. Why in the world would I bang on my knees when the other options have zero knee risk. Do you ever need to run any great lengths in the mountains?

The other last thing you want is a knee injury to ruin your trip.

I would concentrate on isolating the work to your quadriceps. Most any exercise that works quads IS going to work lungs. If your quads are in shape and ready for work then that is all you need. My favorite quad workout is the Arc machine. It is just like climbing a mountain but better than the stairmaster. It definitely works your lungs.

Got to be efficient and bummin your knees ain't efficient.

From: city hunter
05-Jun-11

city hunter's embedded Photo
city hunter's embedded Photo
Imagine that u fitness gurus thats cityhunter in canmore ,Lots of guys say how hard a hunt Canmore is Blah Blah Blah i find that funny , I never ran one step to train for this hunt , the only training i did was hunt elk in sept in some nasty mountains , and put on my pack and walk around NY ,, OH yes i did shoot every second i had a chance hmmm shooting skills very imporaant esp in steep mountain shooting ..

So fitness gurus please expliain how a bronx born bowhunter with chronic lymes disease can go to canmore and survie ,,,

Im not no special person just a guy that loves to bowhunt , so if can do it then most others can , all they need is the desire . louis

From: Tigereye
05-Jun-11
I find body weight circuits to be great for overall fitness, strength, cardio, and flexabilty. You can easily do at home or gym in 30 minutes and a tuff cicuit could leave the best conditioned athlete gasping. I do run about once a week for additional cardio. HIIT training minimizes the knee pounding and increases the heart pounding. Another pointer is to stay away from the body building and powerlifting routines. The guy with the best abs and bigest biceps is not necessarily the most fit and I have seen my share of powerlifters that can bench >350 pounds and couldnt run 1 mile non stop. Focus on compound movements and moving your body in various directions from various positions for overall strength and conditioning. My advice to all is if you stay in shape all year then all you really need to do for a difficult hunt is try to lean out about 10 lbs come hunt time. Really makes a diffference humping those mtns. 52 and stil going strong

From: JLS
05-Jun-11
So fitness gurus please expliain how a bronx born bowhunter with chronic lymes disease can go to canmore and survie ,,,

Okay, we'll dub you Superman. All hail Cityhunter, the immortal bowhunter who conquered Canmore and never ran a step.

....Hail Cityhunter!

From: JLS
05-Jun-11
Back to the original thread, I think Dwight's article and advice is spot on. It's not absolutely necessary to do all he does, but all things equal it will help make you a better, safer hunter.

Also, at first I kind of laughed at him doing curls in camp, until I remembered that he hunts all fall. At his age, taking three months off from the workout regimen would be a killer to keeping in shape. Actually, at my age it wouldn't help much either. If I was going to spend all of November hunting whitetails I'd have to work out in camp too. Tough problem to have.

I have always enjoyed Dwight's stuff. I'd love to meet him someday.

From: huntingbob
05-Jun-11
Thanks for the Fitness 101 thread. I've been using one that I found on Elk 101.com. I guess if all of us stay in shape the better off we will be. Bob.

From: city hunter
05-Jun-11
JLS i just posted it to show you that there is more then one way to get a job done. The hardest part about this hunting is laying down the cash Ouch lol

From: Matt
05-Jun-11
"I am arguing that being able to run an ultra marathon is not a prerequisite to being a successful elk hunter."

What would lead you to believe anyone on this thread disagrees with your bold assertion?

From: 'Ike'
05-Jun-11
Some of you guys really need to find a hobby!

From: JLS
05-Jun-11
"there is more then one way to get a job done"

I have never disagreed with that. Reference my above posts. You however, seem more intent on repeating your opinion until everyone agrees with you.

From: city hunter
05-Jun-11
Ike are u jokin u post some strange stuff at times lol

From: 'Ike'
05-Jun-11
;-)

From: kellyharris
06-Jun-11
Pig doc you hit the nail on the head!!!!

From: trophyhill
06-Jun-11
i've been doing 20-30 minutes of cardio a day mixxed with some weights for an hour to an hour and a half. looks like i need to reverse that a bit and get some more cardio. thanks for the article.

From: AZBUGLER
06-Jun-11
Nobody is saying you have to be a marathon runner to be a successful elk hunter. The article is about getting in shape and how it can make your hunt more enjoyable and rewarding. I started running 3-5 miles per day last year. I lost 33 pounds and way improved my cardiovascular fitness.

On my hunt last January, I was up and down the mountains like I had never been able to do before. It made a Huge difference. In addition, the mental aspect of pushing myself to get my butt out of bed every day or push to get that extra mile during a workout also increased my mental fitness. No, you don't have to run.....but do something. You wont be sorry you did. I have found that running is enjoyable to me and burns the maximum number of calories.

From: Whitetailer
06-Jun-11
Like Dwight I also work out thru out the season, and also at times when in camp. I hunt all fall, and can not drop a routine, otherwise, it will hurt me, but again I am older.

I have taken the time, during some down time, to do Yoga, stretch, use of flex bands, water filled gator aid bottles for curls, simple stuff... 10 - 15 minutes is all I need.......

Dwights Mule Deer Book was one of the best hunting books ever written. I got to meet him once, what a genuine guy.......

I think everyone on this thread, loves to hunt, and knows what it takes.

I also think alot of guys think, well I dont hunt the mountains so I do not need all this getting in shape stuff...... Well I can tell you load up a canoe and freight it in the bush, and that can be a b... buster too.......

I also like the physical training tips on Bowhunter TV, thats a good show...... I wish that mag and TV show emphasized the DIY hunts more, than the private ranches they are always on, but for the most part, its pretty good......

From: Lee
06-Jun-11
Hard for me to believe anyone would argue that being in shape won't help your elk hunting - or quality of life for that matter! I've hunted twice with guys that were not in good shape and it was a real drag - literally! Personally, I'm using the eliptical trainer - good cardio without the pounding of running - which Dwight mentions.

To each his own,

Lee

From: Owl
06-Jun-11
Welcome Dwight. I can empathize with the nutritional shortcomings. Exercise is the fun part.

I am surprised there was no mention of HIIT.

Maybe in a 2nd installment. Thanks for contributing.

From: mn_archer
06-Jun-11
I am not fitness guru by any means, but am working on getting in better shape more for my family and hoping to live as long as God allows it than bowhunting, but the benefits will be appreciated!

Having hunted the mountains for years with people on both ends of the spectrum I have seen people in great shape fail, while I've seen people in horrible shape succeed. I have hunted with Kyle (NvaGvUp) 3 times in the mountains and also with Steve_Jo once. They both are in unbeliveable shape as far as I am concerned. Kyle has already posted his age, he is twice mine and Joe is 4-5 years older than me. Kyle has both mental toughness and the stamina better than that of a race horse.

One time in Colorado we hiked down 1500+ feet and about 1.5-2 mi from camp where I arrowed a large bodied bull right at dark. The next am we headed down to 1/4 and pack him out. I unknowingly drank most my water on the way TO the Elk and when we headed back up, on a much open sidehill It really started to hit me after I ran out of h2O. I dropped my pack and Kyle kept going. He beat me back to camp easily and I left my pack in the shade so I could resupply my water bladder. That was an eye opener, but aparently not enough for me cause a couple years later I was not in better shape, but worse.

In 2009 Jo, Kyle, and myself headed to Idaho. To me, Joe is the PERFECT hunter in all aspects. He has it all. The right attitude, unbeliveable fitness, the correct mindset, and the drive and want to get it done. That trip was an eye opener for me, but not quite enough...

7/18/10 was the real eye opener for me when my wife gave birth to our first son, that changed me. I've always had the right mindset and attitude, and that along with mental toughness and the want to succeed has allowed me to have great success in the mountains, and I am at 100% success on 13 archery elk trips, but I have to wonder what if... If only I had been in better shape all these years I know I would have enjoyed myself and my hunts more, that that right there is enough. but could being in better shape have allowed me to tag some better bulls over the past 12 years? Who knows, but over the next 12 years we'll find out!

Everyone wants to use BigDan as an example cause he isnt in the best shape of his life, has had heart issues, yet continues to arrow P&Y Elk each year, sometimes more than one in a single year. I bet even Dan would admit if he took his knowledge and experiance and coupled that with the fitness level of Kyle or Joe there wouldnt be an elk safe- anywhere.

Do you need to be in untra-good shape to kill an elk? Of course not, but being in shape will only help, while not being in shape can only hurt.

michael

From: Z Barebow
06-Jun-11
I enjoyed Dwight's article. Simple and straight forward.

I had the pleasure of meeting Dwight after a race. It was brief and I wouldn't expect him to remember. But he seems like a very genuine guy who took a little time to talk to me, even though he was there to see his daughter finish.

I was watching an elk video last night and a out of shape, heavier set guy kill a pretty nice elk. Put a good shot on it. Good for him. What did I notice? He was breathing hard while narrating as he and the camera man set up. He was still puffing throught out the whole sequence leading up to the shot. Nerves and adrenaline? Spare tire, donuts and sausage gravy! IMHO! And this looked like pretty mild terrain. Will he continue to kill nice bulls? Heck yes! But he is likely to have the advantage of guides, access roads, and private land which I will not be hunting. Good for him.

Would he be able to hunt public land elk in the areas which I have hunted? Yes. Could he do it effectively over a long hunt, if required? Doubt it. There is no entourage of people to glass for me or pack out an elk if I kill one.

My ideal weight on my final packout of an elk hunt is around 230 pounds. My body weight of 145 pounds plus the 85 pounds of elk meat on my back.

It isn't much of a secret, running is my primary choice for year around training/fitness. I won't apologize for that. I also do stairmaster, elliptical, ride bike (stationary and mountain bike) and hike with weighted back pack. I have never said that anyone needs to run XX miles to elk hunt. But, the article identifies running as Dwight's primary choice for fitness, and he explains WHY running has benefits vs other exercise. There are other choices and options (which I advocate also), but running gives you the "best bang for your buck". Some people cannot run. I understand that. You do the best you can with the cards you are played. Having physical issues which exclude running is one thing, choosing not to run is a choice. In the author's opinion, you would be choosing to exclude one of the best ways to improve your overall fitness.

RE: Mental toughness. When hunting in the mountains, you have the opportunity to be tested for generally two weeks out of 52 weeks in a year. Will you "pass the test"? Can you hunt as hard and effectively on day 10 as you did on day 1? Sucks to find out while hunting, you were wrong. Some folks have a tendency to over estimate their physical abilities as they type on the computer. Running can test you 50 weeks out of the year. (I am elk hunting the other two weeks!)

Running has tested my mental toughness more than anything else I have ever done. Whether it is training or races. Try getting up at 4:45 AM for the 6th day in a row, running 8-20 miles every day, with temps from -10 to -20 every time you head out the door. For the 4 week in a row. I am tired and sore, but I have my mind set on a goal. I will not allow anything but my best training effort. This process parallels the way I elk hunt, day after day. Sleeping in, sitting around camp because I am sore, or quitting prematurely detract from my goal, which is to kill an elk.

Biologically speaking, a human body typically has enough energy stores within to allow the average person to run/race around 20 miles. Much further than 20 miles, the body sends messages to the brain to slow down/recover. This is the proverbial "wall". Proper training has taught my mind how to exist and persevere when my body is telling me to quit.

For folks who run ultra distances (up to 100 miles), this scene is repeated multiple times.

Kinda sound like the definition of mental training & toughness to me!

My training and physical fitness allow me, if needed, to push hard for long periods of time. Once I stop pushing, my heart rate recovers very rapidly. This increases my odds of pulling off a well executed shot. For myself, nothing I have done in my 45 years has aided my physical and mental well being more than running.

Just like AZBugler stated, you don't have to run. But do something. The benefits will extend well after elk season is over.

From: Mad_Angler
06-Jun-11
I can see exercising at some hunting camps. If I'm bowhunting whitetails, I should be exercising at camp. The actual hunting isn't that strenuous.

I'f I'm elk hunting, I certainly don't need any more exercise.

But either way, I'm not sure about the camo spandex...

From: tthomas
06-Jun-11
City Hunter

You should know that the hike into your camp was no walk in the park. A fat chubby guy with no go could not make it back there. So no matter what he could not kill a ram.

Some snow and a little bad weather and its a 12 hour death march. So being in shape is important. Your attitude is even more important. You did it and found it easy but remember that lots of guys pack it in on that hunt.

Don't undersell the need for working out and getting ready and doing some training.

You have a tough mental nature, and that can get you most of the way up the mountain. The fat chubby guy has little will power and a weak mind with very little resolve.

Just my opinion, but then I day hunted where you did so I could return for pizza and beer each night.

Z BArebows post just above is one of the best I have ever read on this site. Nice job Z.

From: Hawkeye
06-Jun-11
"In addition, the mental aspect of pushing myself to get my butt out of bed every day or push to get that extra mile during a workout also increased my mental fitness. No, you don't have to run.....but do something. You wont be sorry you did."

Good post and Nice article Dwight!

From: mn_archer
06-Jun-11
I was wondering about him working out in camo stretchy pants too. If I walked into canp and seen that I might sleep in the truck a few nights! lol

michael

From: elkmtngear
06-Jun-11

elkmtngear's Link
My hunting partner and I have been hunting together around 15 years now. We both always had the "mental toughness", and there was a time when we both trained hard for our hunt.

The last couple of years have been tough. I run all year to stay in shape, my buddy starts doing a little biking about a month before our hunt typically.

What I've noticed in the last few years, is he tends to give up easily. There was a time, when we heard a bull sound off, that it didn't matter where in the heck the bull was, we were on our way to him.

Last season, we had one good encounter, and it was after I finally convinced my buddy to go way down and back up after the only bull that would ping us back all morning. His initial response when the bull bugled across the canyon was, "I'm not going clear over there".

I guess my point is, mental toughness does not last forever. I have 10 years on my hunting buddy, and I would be attacking the elk woods much more aggressively, if he wasn't holding me back. It seems much more important to him lately to head back to camp and pound beers.

Kudos to Dwight for an article well written, I am sure he still has many great years of extreme bowhunting left in him, thanks in no small part, to his training regimen.

Best of Luck, Jeff

From: sticksender
06-Jun-11
If concerned that running will pound your knees.....try running uphill. I have a course with long & steep hills. I sprint the hills and fast-walk the flats. Very easy on the knees.

I've tried various ways of preparing for mountain hunts, and for me there's no doubt that running gives me the biggest payoff for the time spent. The next best (for me) is hiking with a 50-60# pack. But that doesn't even come close to the effect I get from running. Just as I'm no big fan of eating my spinach, neither do I love running. But since both are good for me, I'll choke 'em down ;-)

From: 2legit2quit
06-Jun-11
Like NVA I was born to run, but I gravitate towards the things at which I suck at to make myself well rounded for the mountains. I lift, hike, and do circuit style workouts from triantohunt.com... under the gun of a stopwatch. This helps me measure my work and I can get done in 15 minutes what most folks spend an hour doing at a gym.

I would never put my name in the same sentence of schuh and hanes even if we had the same birthday, I have respect for them both, although the spandex bicep curl image might be forever burned in my mind.

From: Bill in SD
06-Jun-11
No mention of Aerobics in Dwight's article? I've found that for "me" the Insanity workouts have really gotten me into the best shape of my life. One thing I never thought of was how much stretching was involved and how flexible and coordinated I would become....Another thing is getting such an intense workout in less than an hour.

Bill

From: longhunter
07-Jun-11
Great article. Some of you guys need to get a life.

From: heartshot
07-Jun-11
Man, when an F-5 knocks your house down you miss out on all of the fun.....

This is a stupid arguement now and it has always been a stupid arguement. Each person has hunting abilities. Those abilities are improved with fitness....even big dan's. I say that without even knowing the man.

From: NvaGvUp
07-Jun-11
Barrett,

Glad to see to back here. Good luck with the re-building process! I hope Shannon and the kids are starting to recover from the shock and sorrow that tornado caused.

From: kellyharris
07-Jun-11
The "Git in Shape for Goats" thread on the goat forum last fall was perhaps the best of all.

Hmmm. If i remember the get in shape for goat thread it was mostly people praising Kyle?

"Who here has EVER said you need to run ultras to be a successful elk hunter?" "Not me. Not Dwight. Not Cameron."

WOW to compare yourself in the same league with these two is pretty impressive!

07-Jun-11
LOL, I guess every site has to have a few self proclaimed fitness experts.

As a professional guide for several years it use to be a joke to get the dudes who start off every hunt telling you how great of shape they're in. Distance runner are the worst. Most have almost no physcial endurance and break down fast. Most of the guides in my circle made it part of their daily agenda to have these kind of dudes puking on the mountain by noon the first day of the hunt.

I always hated getting two kind of dudes, the ones who are so concerned about fitness they're more intereted in showing you how fit they are then they are hunting, and the dude who simply refuses to take any responsibility for his physical condition. I want the guy in the middle, fit enough to get the job done but slow enough to hunt while he's doing it.

If your serious about being fit for hunting, put down your running shoes and save the money you spend on gym memberships and buy yourself a pack of hounds. Turn them loose on a track twice a week and problem solved.

07-Jun-11
I have always been a Dwight Schuh fan and just this morning sent an e-mail to Bowhunter saying what a great article Dwight wrote on Hunting Partners.

I think I would like to hunt with most Bowsiters but not all.

Lost 30lbs since Jan 1 and exerise 5-6 times a week. WY elk coming up!

Not much for running,( bad knee) but like stair stepper and should probably add pack and boots.

Consistency is what I need. Also book called Protein Power helped me alot. Happy Hunting ss

From: city hunter
07-Jun-11
Hey idahoman right on ,, Yes fitness is needed but funny how Chuck Adams never did any special training for his hunts. And he only had five world records over 100 critters in PY ,, first guy to bowkill all NA biggame species, Im not saying dont train , or workout , but no all guys want to run or can run , so we the avg bowhunters have to come up with other ways of training. Truth is you can kill lots of critters without running a step .

From: NvaGvUp
07-Jun-11
kelly,

Get a life. Also, why don't you try actually READING the Git in Shape for Goats thread before you make a bigger fool of yourself?

BTW, how hypocritical that you should slam me for simply wanting to help others get in shape, while at the same time starting a thread about YOU and YOUR most awesome wonderful bear hunt? LOL

As to the rest of your nonsense, I've never claimed to be even half the bowhunter that Haines and Schuh are. In fact, I've rarely posted on hunting skills or techniques at all, because I'm pretty average on that stuff at best. So I'll leave the hunting expertise to them.

But I do have considerable experience in staying exceptionally fit. I've likely run more ultras than both of them combined, and faster as well. Cameron referred to me a few years ago in one of his blogs as 'the original ultra-running bow hunter.' Last year, at his request, I coached him for his successful attempt at the Western States 100 Mile Endurance Run.

So with your permission or not, I'll keep right on trying to help teach and coach guys how to improve and learn on the subject of fitness for mountain hunting.

From: Amoebus
07-Jun-11
Pretty good article. Mr. Schuh (who is shown in his underwear more than congressman Weiner) mentions starting out slowly - which is good advice. I would also add a doctor visit if you have been sedentary for a while.

As mentioned, there is nothing magical about running - only you can get the same amount of calories burned quicker than most others. A good rule of thumb is about 100 cal/mile - whether you walk or run. So, you can walk that mile in 15 min or run it in 7.5. For those of us who have full-time (non hunting) jobs, getting twice the work done in the same time is valuable.

And, as I get older (46), I find that Mr. Schuh's advice on diet is spot on.

From: mn_archer
07-Jun-11
Amoebus, are you sure about that? I can walk 5 miles @ 15 min per and not break a sweat, but if I run those 5 miles sweat is pouring off me- I think it is more about getting your heart rate up there, and keeping it up there for a minimum of 30 minutes. At least that is what I've been told by people who are definately in better shape that me.

From: 7mag
07-Jun-11
I have been outwalked and outhiked by old, fat men who were from the mountains and could'nt run if they had to. Their secret was they were used to the thin, mountain air. It took me 4 or 5 days for my lungs to get accustomed to the air last time I went elk hunting. There was a man from my hometown that I will call "Mr. Fitness" ( he was a coach and gym teacher) that went on an elk hunt with a buddy of mine. He lasted two days and stayed in camp the rest of the hunt- and he ran often before the hunt began.

From: NvaGvUp
07-Jun-11
mn_archer,

As Amoebus said, 100 calories/mile. Take it to the bank.

Sure, heavier guys will burn more per mile than lighter guys, but as a basic rule of thumb, 100 calories/mile is pretty accurate.

Personally I think that the fitter you become, the more efficient your body becomes, so you burn less calories/ mile. But that's a good thing.

From: bullelk
07-Jun-11
"If your serious about being fit for hunting, put down your running shoes and save the money you spend on gym memberships and buy yourself a pack of hounds. Turn them loose on a track twice a week and problem solved."

How true. I bear and lion hunt with some guys here in Idaho, and they are tough, rugged, mountain men. My best hunting partner is a hound hunter, and no matter how hard I train, he can walk me into the ground at will. These guys never quit.

From: mn_archer
07-Jun-11
Kyle,

So you are saying i will burn the same number of calories over 5 miles no matter if I run or walk it? How can that be true? I am not second guessing you, if you guys say it is so I'll believe it-

From: NvaGvUp
07-Jun-11
"If your (sic) serious about being fit for hunting, put down your running shoes and save the money you spend on gym memberships and buy yourself a pack of hounds."

What utter BS.

I've never in my life had a gym membership, nor a pack of hounds (which I would think would be a tremendous way to get in shape, btw.) All I do is run.

Of course having a pack of good hounds would cost thousands of dollars, require a major kennel and then you'd need to live in the mountains as well, Neat idea, but totally impracticle as well as not doable for 9,999 out of 10,000 hunters. Running, OTOH can be done anywhere at any time, and costs nothing more than a pair of shoes, running shorts and a beat up and tattered t-shirt.

In August, 2008, at age 59 and 11 months, I did a backpack Stone Sheep hunt. The outfitter was my guide and told me I was in better shape than anyone he'd ever had on a hunt.

Last fall, at age 62 and one month I did a Rocky Mountain bighorn sheep hunt. The outfitter told me the exact same thing. The day I killed my ram, my guide and I were three miles up from the horses glassing a huge area. After a while he asked me what I thought about dropping down across a saddle below us, hiking up a long slope and looking down into the next basin. The distance was probably two miles.

I said, "Sure. What's it look like over there?" His answer was priceless.

He said, "I don't know. I've never been there. I've been guiding up here for ten years and you're the first guy I've ever had who was willing to go there!"

There are many ways to get in great shape for mountain hunting. But you guys who claim you can't get there by just running are full of baloney.

From: SBH
07-Jun-11
Nva- give it a break. We get it, your old and your in better shape than most people half your age. Congratulations. Now back to the original thread.....

From: Z Barebow
07-Jun-11
IBH- If I had hounds, I defintely would be in fantastic shape. I would be running for 100-300 miles before they would cut a track. Then again, I might be a distance runner if I covered that distance. (With those distances, I might only be able to let them loose once a week. Looks like a no win for me.

I think a few folks might need smaller brush strokes as they type and categorize folks.

The one absolute is is being out of shape in the mountains will kick your @ss. Dwight laid out several training options and supported the advantages and disadvantages of each. Not every hunter has mountains out there back door. I'll bet the majority readers of this article live below 1500'. The hunters who live below 1500' (and many who live above 1500') are looking for all options to be a more fit hunter. If you don't like the options, don't kill the messengers.

Since Dwight has been a successful bowhunter for so many years and he lives in Idaho, he must have hounds. Apparently he will cover that in the next feature, Advanced Hunting Fitness. BigDan has killed more elk than you can shake a stick, and he also killed himself a dandy bighorn, he must train with dogs. Ludicris statements/comments?? Of course they are.

"If your serious about being fit for hunting, put down your running shoes and save the money you spend on gym memberships and buy yourself a pack of hounds. Turn them loose on a track twice a week and problem solved." The readers can come to their own conclusions on this comment.

From: JLS
07-Jun-11
Nva,

I never read that Idaho said you can't get there by just running.

His economic projections are flawed and lots of logistics are omitted, but I bet his program would get a person in good shape.

I agree with Z, too many folks here have something that works for them and they want to label it the "best" way, or the "only" way. I think there is such a cross section of folks on here that one can easily see that there are many ways to skin a cat. However, someone will fire off with their chosen method and label it the "best" and "only" way.

Ironically, it was the first ultramarathon that I did that forced me to train by methods other than running. I can run further and with less effort now by running three to four days a week than I could when all I did was run. The added strength training has been a good addition to my overall fitness and conditioning as well.

There's nothing like a crossfit type workout to make you feel like someone's used you to mop the floor.

From: JLS
07-Jun-11

From: nv goat
08-Jun-11
I have had 2 sheep guides say the same about me and I don't run. I believe that some people can run as their only training and be extremely fit. They may be genetically superior. I applaud their efforts. I just don't believe running is the best means for many people whether because of joint impact or whatever. I also believe that those who run only could be better than they are now by incorporating interval training(may be already doing it) , some strength training esp with body weight functional moves, and most importantly with plyometrics. Plyometrics trains the neuromuscular mechanism to fire the whole muscle at once which results in power without bulk- the longer, stronger muscle. Add to this mix some flexibility training and you will be a better athlete.

There is much good science out there regard training for multiple sports. A recent article in Outside mag May 2011 addresses training to compete in fairly elite level competitions by training fewer hours but in a "smarter" way allowing one to fit it into their life.

The whole idea is for each individual to be a better athlete (mountain tough) and not a competition amongst us. What works for me may not work for you. Be open minded consider what might make you better or maybe just as good with less risk of injury. Ego should not be an issue here. We should be brothers who share the greatest passion there is.

From: huntitall
08-Jun-11
"There is much good science out there regard training for multiple sports. A recent article in Outside mag May 2011 addresses training to compete in fairly elite level competitions by training fewer hours but in a "smarter" way allowing one to fit it into their life."

Good stuff there. I do triathlons because I love the competition but the training also gets me is great shape, both physically and mentally, for the elk mountains in the Fall. Swimming is good for my core and a moderate aerobic workout. Cycling is killer for your quads and hamstrings and a good aerobic workout. Running, the best aerobic workout and mental preparation for hunting, at least for me. Add in the weight room and core workouts and it all works really well for me. Probably not for everyone but it helps me enjoy elk country a lot more when I'm not sucking wind at the top of the ridge in the morning! Whatever it is y'all are doing to stay in shape, keep doing it. :)

From: huntitall
08-Jun-11
"As mentioned, there is nothing magical about running - only you can get the same amount of calories burned quicker than most others. A good rule of thumb is about 100 cal/mile - whether you walk or run. So, you can walk that mile in 15 min or run it in 7.5. For those of us who have full-time (non hunting) jobs, getting twice the work done in the same time is valuable."

That 100/cal/mile is pretty dependent on your physical build. A study came out last year that showed the differences between a 150lb runner and 200lb runner. Both running the same pace, same distance, the 200lb runner burned as much as 8 times the calories as the 150lb runner. Same held true for cycling. So us bigger guys get more benefit for the same workout as you lightweights! :)

From: huntitall
08-Jun-11
"As mentioned, there is nothing magical about running - only you can get the same amount of calories burned quicker than most others. A good rule of thumb is about 100 cal/mile - whether you walk or run. So, you can walk that mile in 15 min or run it in 7.5. For those of us who have full-time (non hunting) jobs, getting twice the work done in the same time is valuable."

That 100/cal/mile is pretty dependent on your physical build. A study came out last year that showed the differences between a 150lb runner and 200lb runner. Both running the same pace, same distance, the 200lb runner burned as much as 8 times the calories as the 150lb runner. Same held true for cycling. So us bigger guys get more benefit for the same workout as you lightweights! :)

08-Jun-11
Good grief, you guys are like a bunch of women bickering back and forth.

As far as getting in shape, its pretty stupid for anybody to say you wouldn't hunt better if you were in better shape. Dwight just gives some ideas on how to get in shape and how its changed HIS hunting.

As far as the running vs. other methods, I personally choose other methods because I absolutely HATE to run. Give me a ball (basketball, football, soccerball) and I can run for hours and hours. Put me on a treadmill or an open stretch of road and it is pure agony. Just my preference, I also love P90x and have had great results. Insanity I don't like much (even though the results are great), again just a preference. To each their own....including hounds as I'm sure that would whip you into shape right quick!

From: JLS
08-Jun-11

JLS's Link
A good rule of thumb is about 100 cal/mile - whether you walk or run

Might want to check out this article. Also, the 100 cal/mile doesn't take into account differences in body weight. It burns more oxygen moving a 195 pound runner than it does a 145 pound runner (assuming roughly equal percentage of body fat).

From: Whitetailer
08-Jun-11
I got to agree with the hounds. Chaseing along with my friends plotts, after bears, sure is a work out .... and alot more fun

08-Jun-11
Geez, and I wanted to start hunting elk! Lol

From: NvaGvUp
08-Jun-11
Can someone, anyone, show me where I've ever said that running is the only way to get in shape for hunting the high mountains? No, you cannot. Indeed, on this very thread I've said exactly the opposite, as I have on countless other threads.

I advocate running as the best way to get to that point and many others agree, to include the above mentioned Dwight Schuh and Cameron Haines.

What some of you guys seem to be unwilling to understand is that the only times I get 'belligerent' about running is when someone claims that you cannot get in extremely good shape by running alone. Such ill-informed claims are bogus and wholly unrelated to the facts.

08-Jun-11
WOW.... The fitness threads seam to spin out of control really fast these days!

Does Dwight manscape too?

From: Amoebus
08-Jun-11
ER - "The fitness threads seam to spin out of control really fast these days"

Are you saying that spinning is the only way to get in shape for hunting? 8^)

From: kellyharris
08-Jun-11
Amoebus we need a LIKE button

From: city hunter
08-Jun-11
If u manscape then u can run even faster.

From: NvaGvUp
08-Jun-11
JLS,

"I never read that Idaho said you can't get there by just running."

Nor did I ever say that.

From: JLS
08-Jun-11
I'm going to bow out of the dead horse kicking marathon.

From: NvaGvUp
08-Jun-11
JLS,

I'm with you.

I have no interest anymore in responding to those who cannot read, those who cannot understand, and worse, those who's lack of personal success results in a need to attack those who do.

From: city hunter
08-Jun-11
Gezzz its the internet. When i post a thread i dont expect all to enjoy its the cyber world . Really it would be a blah world if we all did the same as one another ..

From: mn_archer
08-Jun-11
ok, is this how you guys are welcoming one of the most respected bow hunting authorities to this fine website?

michael

09-Jun-11
Same characters everytime

09-Jun-11
Ah, June on the Bowsite. Everyone is keyed up and ready to go....only 3 more months of this till the seasons really get going.

From: Mtnbikeit
09-Jun-11
PicDoc +1

From: Genesis
09-Jun-11
"What some of you guys seem to be unwilling to understand is that the only times I get 'belligerent' about running is when someone claims that you cannot get in extremely good shape by running alone."

Misuse of the word....Belligerent can bust a wet bag....just sayin' :)

From: Swamp Buck
10-Jun-11
The more of you that don't work hard training, the better for me~

Funny to me how two people can read the same thing and come to two opposite conclusions... Who ever thought that an article about eating right and working out will result in better shape could be so contriversal...

I can't think of any reason other than risk of injury to why you would not want to be in the best possible shape to elk hunt.

From: brunse
11-Jun-11
I wonder if Dwight has peeked at this thread??

Only thing I can add is that training is a lot easier after removing all chips (or bricks in many cases) off one's shoulder!!!

I like to be fit enough to walk out of anywhere my horse can carry me into. I hike with a weighted pack, run some and just started mountain biking. As friend recently told me, "You can be in great shape and when you first get on a bike, still look like a fool!" My legs burned for a week. That must be good, right?

12-Jun-11
Dwight is a great guy and a great bowhunter for sure. But, I disagree about about the running thing too. I never run and neither does my hunting partner Roy Roth. We've both packed deer out for Dwight.

From: primitve
13-Jun-11
Blacktail....is Roy Roth the big guy from Alaska that guided Dwight? If so, Dwight told me about him, said he was a freak of nature for a "bigger" non marathon running man.

From: city hunter
13-Jun-11
My money goes on Roy , A big guy can get in good shape , plus they have the power that a 150lb man can never have .

From: midwest
13-Jun-11
Cameron has vouched for Roy in his book and articles. After reading about Dwight's November Sitka hunt with Roy, I have no doubt he is an animal!

13-Jun-11

THE ELK REAPER's Link
:)

From: city hunter
13-Jun-11
Cameron has vouched for Roy sorry midwest thats funny ...

From: JLS
13-Jun-11
Pig Doc,

I do both!

From: hammerhd
13-Jun-11
Rumour has it, the Elk Reaper is the only man to have ever critiqued Chuck Norris physical training style to his face....and lived!

Seriously, Aron will probably be the first person to tell you that which ever program you chose, it's all about the mindset and comittment that you set for yourself.

From: midwest
13-Jun-11
"Cameron has vouched for Roy sorry midwest thats funny ..."

I guess I miss your point, city???

From: JLS
14-Jun-11

JLS's Link
This link is an interesting read on the benefits of anaerobic training vs. aerobic training.

Dan Staton advocates Tabata intervals as a lot of bang for your buck. If you're strapped for time, as most of us are, use interval training to maximize your gains. This is why crossfit type training is so effective, and similar boot camp type workouts.

Really, the only reason I do long distance running is because I enjoy it.

Good luck all.

Jason

14-Jun-11
Roy didn't guide Dwight, they just hunted together.

Let me be clear, I'm not trying to degrade anyone, especially Dwight. The man is an inspiration. I hope I’m doing what he’s doing ten years from now. My point is that running and being fit to compete in triathlons is not the best measure of one’s capabilities in remote, hardcore hunting situations.

Roy and Cameron Haines are best of friends and clearly, as Roy describes it, they are the true odd couple of bowhunting. No two guys could represent more opposite ends of the training and fitness spectrum.

I have been in life threatening situations with Roy on more than one occasion. In those situations, given the choice of having Roy, Cameron or Dwight to depend on, I’ll take Roy 100% of the time. He might not speed up or down the mountain, but he's coming off the mountain in one piece every time. More importantly, he'll see that his hunting partner comes off in one piece with him.

From: Wild Bill
14-Jun-11
An expert in exercise physiology once told me that the best way to prepare the body for an activity is by doing that exact activity. So, wouldn't the best way to train for hiking up and down steep mountains at elevation with a pack be hiking up and down steep mountains at elevation with a pack?

NvaGvUp, I think claiming that running is the best way for everyone to train for hunting is pretty self centered and foolish IMO. I know and respect some runners, but don't push it on everyone.

Thanks Z Barebow, great post and some good points for why running is one good way to prepare for hunting.

It seems to me that body type/size is a big factor in choosing a training routine. Most runners I know are 150lbs or less. At 6'2" and 190 lbs, I rarely run because I'd rather hike or bike steep hills to get a workout without pounding my feet, knees, & ankles. I workout 6 days a week, but only run when I'm somewhere without a steep hill, bike, stairs or gym.

I picked up my UL3700 pack at Kifaru today and the guy there told me Elk Reaper once carried 250 lbs in a pack for 8 miles in the mountains. He probably can't run a marathon, but he sure would be nice to have as a hunting partner.

Thanks for the article, Mr. Schuh. I look forward to reading your books.

From: heartshot
15-Jun-11
Elk Reaper, That link made my morning. Thanks

From: Jonesy
15-Jun-11
Two ACL reconstructions, several scopes and various trauma associated with work don't allow my knees to even think about running. Treadmill elevated to about 15% grade with a backpack, stair-stepper, bike, nordic track and a thorough core workout all keep me in reasonable shape. I can argue elk hunting has saved my life. If I didn't bust my butt all year to stay in shape for the mountains, who knows how fat and out of shape I'd be. It's tough getting old, but sure beats the alternative.

From: Z Barebow
16-Jun-11
Good attitude Jonesy.

I have a plan to live forever,,,, I am currently on track to meet my goal!

From: 2legit2quit
16-Jun-11
+1 Wild Bill

From: Bobmuley
16-Jun-11
"What do you do to teach others how to maximize their potential?"

Teach them to look at all the elk you back-country guys run past.

The last day I ran was October 18th 1993...the second to last day I spent in the army. I figured they wouldn't kick me out the last day for skipping pt. Still, I do okay elk and deer huntin'.

16-Jun-11
That's a good one Bob!

From: SteelyEyes
20-Jun-11
You don't see gazelles in the mountains. Look at the physiology of the beasts that do live there and you'll see more low speed endurance and more powerful muscles. They didn't adapt to their terrain by running.

Being in good shape, no matter how you get there, allows you to make decisions to go places that increase your chances of running into and killing elk. If you're not in very good shape you look at those same places and think, "too steep" or "too far" and it's an opportunity missed.

I tried working more cardio and less power for my mountain hunts in the steep areas of the Eagle Cap Wilderness and the result was that I was less sure footed and felt more ill at ease on the steeps than I had when I was doing squats and deadlifts. That's just me. You can run all you want and it might be fine in Colorado where the air is thinner and mountains aren't quite so diagonal.

I've taken various horses into steep country too. The more racy types like an appendix quarter horse had problems where my heavy boned grade horses just kept on tractoring along. Mules are the best for that stuff. They're the diesel engines of the equine world but they don't race them.

From: elkfulr
21-Jun-11
It all started out so innocently. Thanks Dwight for your helpful input with the Fitness 101 write up.

Then it spiraled into the void where so many threads go on this site. Nva and Cityhunt... youse guys crack me up, hahaha.

So, here's my .02. I've been in terrific shape and I've been in terrible shape. How I got to either point is irrelevant. I know I'm mentally tough in either condition and can still hunt effectively. That said, being in terrific shape is better, WAY better - now I just gotta get back there:) Extra strong legs and lungs are the primary goal - the rest follows.

21-Jun-11

Blacktail Bob's embedded Photo
Blacktail Bob's embedded Photo
By the way, Roy helped a friend or ours take a Boone & Crocket Kodiak Brown Bear this spring. I bet if you asked Tony, he would say his bear hunt could have been a life threatening experience. In fact, I think he did say the hike to get to the bear was life threatening, ha!!!

From: David Alford
21-Jun-11
If you're going to run, don't run on roads. Run on a softer medium like a golf course or football field and save your knees. Even so, it's not for everyone because a percentage will still get knee problems.

As far as diet, avoid foods which have refined flour ingredients. E.g., breads, cakes, cookies. Most food in the grocery store isn't really food but an experiment on the human body. A high percentage of this so called "food" would last for a century on the shelves.

From: midwest
21-Jun-11
Wow what a freakin giant of a brown bear!

Bob, How old is Roy?

21-Jun-11
Roy is ten years younger than me so that would make him just about 46.

From: Rocky D
21-Jun-11
When the Army went to OIF and OEF they figured out that to much running was not the best thing for guys humping body armor kicking down doors and A$$ all day for a living. I asked a guy at the gym that was converted to a crossfit facilty from the 75th Ranger Regiment how much much running were they doing these days and I will never forget his reply; "from what".

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