NRA Files For Ch 11
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
JL 15-Jan-21
keepemsharp 15-Jan-21
Highlife 15-Jan-21
Chief 15-Jan-21
3arrows 15-Jan-21
altitude sick 15-Jan-21
Dale06 15-Jan-21
Highlife 15-Jan-21
DanaC 15-Jan-21
Roper 15-Jan-21
Tilzbow 15-Jan-21
Stix 15-Jan-21
ryanrc 15-Jan-21
WI Shedhead 15-Jan-21
Matt 15-Jan-21
Owl 15-Jan-21
JL 15-Jan-21
GF 15-Jan-21
'Ike' 15-Jan-21
Glunt@work 16-Jan-21
DanaC 16-Jan-21
Woods Walker 16-Jan-21
Will 16-Jan-21
Ermine 16-Jan-21
Buskill 16-Jan-21
Stix 16-Jan-21
WV Mountaineer 16-Jan-21
DanaC 16-Jan-21
JSW 16-Jan-21
Woods Walker 16-Jan-21
Stix 16-Jan-21
WV Mountaineer 16-Jan-21
JL 16-Jan-21
WV Mountaineer 16-Jan-21
Stix 16-Jan-21
WV Mountaineer 16-Jan-21
KY EyeBow 16-Jan-21
YZF-88 16-Jan-21
YZF-88 16-Jan-21
Woods Walker 16-Jan-21
newfi1946moose 16-Jan-21
newfi1946moose 16-Jan-21
WV Mountaineer 16-Jan-21
Zim 16-Jan-21
JL 16-Jan-21
Highlife 16-Jan-21
DanaC 16-Jan-21
KsRancher 16-Jan-21
JL 16-Jan-21
drycreek 16-Jan-21
GF 16-Jan-21
WapitiBob 16-Jan-21
JL 16-Jan-21
Missouribreaks 17-Jan-21
drycreek 17-Jan-21
Woods Walker 17-Jan-21
Highlife 17-Jan-21
Stix 17-Jan-21
Woods Walker 17-Jan-21
Wild Bill 17-Jan-21
JL 17-Jan-21
DanaC 17-Jan-21
WapitiBob 17-Jan-21
Woods Walker 17-Jan-21
WV Mountaineer 17-Jan-21
Stix 17-Jan-21
Bowbender 17-Jan-21
JL 17-Jan-21
Pat Lefemine 17-Jan-21
WV Mountaineer 17-Jan-21
Stix 17-Jan-21
Glunt@work 17-Jan-21
Woods Walker 17-Jan-21
Stix 17-Jan-21
WV Mountaineer 17-Jan-21
trublucolo 17-Jan-21
Glunt@work 17-Jan-21
Stix 17-Jan-21
Dutch oven 17-Jan-21
WV Mountaineer 17-Jan-21
Stix 18-Jan-21
DanaC 18-Jan-21
altitude sick 18-Jan-21
trublucolo 18-Jan-21
Woods Walker 18-Jan-21
altitude sick 18-Jan-21
Zim 18-Jan-21
JL 18-Jan-21
Surfbow 18-Jan-21
Stix 18-Jan-21
Will 18-Jan-21
JL 18-Jan-21
SteveD 18-Jan-21
grizzly63 18-Jan-21
trublucolo 18-Jan-21
GF 18-Jan-21
Wild Bill 19-Jan-21
tundrajumper 19-Jan-21
WV Mountaineer 19-Jan-21
4nolz@work 19-Jan-21
Zim 19-Jan-21
Zim 19-Jan-21
WV Mountaineer 19-Jan-21
Zim 19-Jan-21
GF 19-Jan-21
Zim 19-Jan-21
Wild Bill 20-Jan-21
WV Mountaineer 20-Jan-21
newfi1946moose 20-Jan-21
Woods Walker 20-Jan-21
Missouribreaks 20-Jan-21
newfi1946moose 20-Jan-21
Woods Walker 21-Jan-21
4nolz@work 21-Jan-21
Zim 21-Jan-21
Bowbender 21-Jan-21
TD 21-Jan-21
Missouribreaks 21-Jan-21
Wild Bill 22-Jan-21
Zbone 21-Feb-21
8point 21-Feb-21
Zim 21-Feb-21
Rick 21-Feb-21
DanaC 22-Feb-21
From: JL
15-Jan-21

JL's Link
Just seen this. Ollie was on to something. I sure hope they can move to Texas....and then consider new leadership.

"National Rifle Association files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy

CATHERINE THORBECKE Fri, January 15, 2021, 5:10 PM·2 min read

The National Rifle Association announced that it intends to restructure as a nonprofit based in Texas and has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protections.

"The move will enable long-term, sustainable growth and ensure the NRA's continued success as the nation's leading advocate for constitutional freedom -- free from the toxic political environment of New York," the gun advocacy group said in a statement Friday.

The NRA added that it has been incorporated in New York for approximately 150 years.

"This strategic plan represents a pathway to opportunity, growth and progress," NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre said in a statement. "Obviously, an important part of this plan is 'dumping New York.' The NRA is pursuing reincorporating in a state that values the contributions of the NRA, celebrates our law-abiding members, and will join us as a partner in upholding constitutional freedom."

LaPierre dubbed the decision Friday a "transformational moment in the history of the NRA." PHOTO: A general view shows the National Rifle Association headquarters, in Fairfax, Va., Aug. 6, 2020. (Jonathan Ernst/Reuters, FILE) PHOTO: A general view shows the National Rifle Association headquarters, in Fairfax, Va., Aug. 6, 2020. (Jonathan Ernst/Reuters, FILE)

The move comes after the NRA was sued by New York Attorney General Letitia James last August in a bid to dissolve the group.

James accused the NRA of an array of "illegal conduct," according to a press release at the time describing the suit, including "[the] diversion of millions of dollars away from the charitable mission of the organization for personal use by senior leadership, awarding contracts to the financial gain of close associates and family, and appearing to dole out lucrative no-show contracts to former employees in order to buy their silence and continued loyalty."

The NRA has filed a counter claim, calling the initial suit politically motivated.

MORE: Ex-NRA insider speaks out: Gun owners should be 'horrified' by what I saw

James on Friday responded to the bankruptcy news in a statement, saying, "The NRA's claimed financial status has finally met its moral status: bankrupt."

"While we review this filing, we will not allow the NRA to use this or any other tactic to evade accountability and my office's oversight," James added."

From: keepemsharp
15-Jan-21
Get rid of the LaPierre family and give the job to Tom Grisham.

From: Highlife
15-Jan-21
Should have left New York decades ago. Along with dumping the leadership

From: Chief
15-Jan-21
I fear this may be the beginning of the end.

From: 3arrows
15-Jan-21
What a joke, nobody goes to jail.

15-Jan-21
It was malpractice to stay in NY this long. They should resign for that alone.

From: Dale06
15-Jan-21
I’m a Patron NRA contributor. The problem in my view is not just LaPierre. The board or some of it is just as bad. There needs to be a new EVP, and some board members need to go. LaPierres misuse of funds occurred under the boards watch. He and the board are the problem. I received a request for donation from them this past week . I wrote on it, “ not until Wayne is gone”, and I sent it back in the postage paid envelope. When or if the NRA fixes itself, I’ll restart financial contributions.

From: Highlife
15-Jan-21
Benefactor life member. Till leadership is changed they won't see a dime.

From: DanaC
15-Jan-21
Need term limits to EVP. I for one will not renew my membership until Lapierre retires.

From: Roper
15-Jan-21
10 years ago I was working out of town for a month and was an NRA member. My wife was getting phone calls every single night at home from the same guy from the NRA. I told her to tell him to stop calling and that I would be in touch. He told her that I was the only one that could tell him not to call, well I knew right then I would never renew and I didn’t. I used to see a tv show with Wayne LaPierre and his wife hunting big game all over the world and thought is that where my money is going. Don’t blame me blame the NRA.

From: Tilzbow
15-Jan-21
Seems like there could be positive outcomes from this. If true, anyone who’s in the know feel free to jump in and highlight those.

From: Stix
15-Jan-21

From: ryanrc
15-Jan-21
So if you're a life member and they go bankrupt and then re-establish. Does that mean your life membership is voided since it would be a new organization?

From: WI Shedhead
15-Jan-21
When they funded the crossbow push in Wisconsin, I cancelled my membership. Too many good vertical bow organizations to give my money too. Too bad because my family and I share thier ideals

From: Matt
15-Jan-21
Sounds like this may be a move to escape NY and nothing more.

From: Owl
15-Jan-21
Mattx2

From: JL
15-Jan-21
Why would they have to file for CH 11 just to move locations? Unless that is a legal way to avoid any NY liability??

From: GF
15-Jan-21
Run from the scene of the crime you’ve committed and then blame the neighborhood. Classic.

From: 'Ike'
15-Jan-21
This has been a long time coming and why I dumped them years ago with a lot of other memberships to 'do nothing' organizations...If I were Texas, I'd say no thanks! JMO...

From: Glunt@work
16-Jan-21
A long time ago I realized that the best thing for the NRA was when our rights were under attack and the worst thing for the NRA was when there wasn't any immediate threat. Hard for a giant machine like that to simultaneously work for their mission and against their financial interests at the same time. I treat them like a sheep dog that figured out if he does a great job and no one in the village loses a sheep or sees a coyote for a couple years, they might start wondering why they need him after a while. I may keep him around but I keep my eye on him.

From: DanaC
16-Jan-21
"A long time ago I realized that the best thing for the NRA was when our rights were under attack and the worst thing for the NRA was when there wasn't any immediate threat. "

Yeah, and they've been 'crying wolf!' for a long time. Clinton was gonna take all my guns! I still have my guns. Obama was gonna take all my guns! I still have my guns. Now it's 'Biden is gonna take all your guns!' Guys, get your dam' fingers off the panic button.

US case law supports our rights to own and carry. Yes, the NRA has helped in these cases, BUT they need to stop 'crying wolf!' and the dam' sure need to stop engaging in partisan politics. I did NOT join a subsidiary of the GOP all those years ago, which is what they have become. Registered 'Independent' and proud.

From: Woods Walker
16-Jan-21
Are they perfect? Of course not. Then become a life member and VOTE for the board members. But when the feces hits the ventilation they are the O N L Y united voice we have, and what's about to ascend on us is like a waste pond at a hog farm in a hurricane.

The Democrat/Left, China Joe and Covid Cuomo HATE them. That right there tells me we need them!

We are going to need EVERY ally we can get for what's coming.

From: Will
16-Jan-21
Hopefully they clean up the business end, and get back to doing what they do. TX certainly feels like it makes sense for them, though I'd like to think they could just run it anywhere if they have good leadership.

From: Ermine
16-Jan-21
Sounds like it’s a good move on their part

From: Buskill
16-Jan-21
Wayne has to go. I can’t justify sending them more money till then.

From: Stix
16-Jan-21
Keep in ming, these are only allegations, But there must be a reason they are running from the scene of the crime and filing bankruptcy to keep creditors powerless:

The New York Attorney General today filed a lawsuit seeking to dissolve the National Rifle Association (NRA), the largest and most influential pro-gun organization in the nation.

The Attorney General charges the organization with illegal conduct because of their diversion of millions of dollars away from the charitable mission of the organization for personal use by senior leadership, awarding contracts to the financial gain of close associates and family, and appearing to dole out lucrative no-show contracts to former employees in order to buy their silence and continued loyalty.

The suit specifically charges the NRA as a whole, as well as Executive Vice-President Wayne LaPierre, former Treasurer and Chief Financial Officer (CFO) Wilson “Woody” Phillips, former Chief of Staff and the Executive Director of General Operations Joshua Powell, and Corporate Secretary and General Counsel John Frazer with failing to manage the NRA’s funds and failing to follow numerous state and federal laws, contributing to the loss of more than $64 million in just three years for the NRA.

In the complaint, the Attorney General lays out dozens of examples where the four individual defendants failed to fulfill their fiduciary duty to the NRA and used millions upon millions from NRA reserves for personal use, including trips for them and their families to the Bahamas, private jets, expensive meals, and other private travel.

16-Jan-21
Yep, fighting for an amendment daily against a government entity and a good percentage of the citizenship can be accomplished flying deltas schedule, set down dinners at McDonalds, and Walmart Wranglers and golf shirts in formal meetings. And, no deserves a vacation for doing so. I’m on board. SMH.

I’m not saying there isn’t a problem. And, so far no one has proved there is. By all means keep an eye on them. But, by no means hold an unrealistic scenario against any of them because a liberal charged them with such offenses.

From: DanaC
16-Jan-21
"...contributing to the loss of more than $64 million in just three years for the NRA. " That's a heluva lot more than some airplane rides and upgrades from Big Macs! Or even a couple of thousand-dollar tailored suits.

From: JSW
16-Jan-21
We only have a constitutional right to bear arms as long as we have a conservative court. In 2008 we were only one vote away from the supreme court ruling that the second amendment only applies to the national guard.

Wake up people. The NRA may have some serious issues but they are all we have. With them our rights would be so restricted as to be almost non existent.

If Hillary had won, she would have made 2 appointments and by now they would have voted 6-3 that we never did have the right to own guns.

Clinton wanted to take our guns and he and the Dems did pass the semi auto ban, Obama wanted to take our guns but the power of the NRA stopped him. Biden will take our guns if we don't stop him. The only thing standing between us and single party socialism from now to eternity is an armed society. They can only go so far left as long as we have guns. There will be massive attacks on those rights. Count on it.

From: Woods Walker
16-Jan-21
What he said!! ^^^^

From: Stix
16-Jan-21

Stix's embedded Photo
Stix's embedded Photo
I'm a life member, but even my feeble mind knows to call a duck a duck. IMO, Another corrupt political organization, led by corrupt individuals. Imagine that.Keep in mind, these are only allegations, But there must be a reason they are running from the scene of the crime and filing bankruptcy to keep creditors powerless:

The New York Attorney General today filed a lawsuit seeking to dissolve the National Rifle Association (NRA), the largest and most influential pro-gun organization in the nation.

The Attorney General charges the organization with illegal conduct because of their diversion of millions of dollars away from the charitable mission of the organization for personal use by senior leadership, awarding contracts to the financial gain of close associates and family, and appearing to dole out lucrative no-show contracts to former employees in order to buy their silence and continued loyalty.

The suit specifically charges the NRA as a whole, as well as Executive Vice-President Wayne LaPierre, former Treasurer and Chief Financial Officer (CFO) Wilson “Woody” Phillips, former Chief of Staff and the Executive Director of General Operations Joshua Powell, and Corporate Secretary and General Counsel John Frazer with failing to manage the NRA’s funds and failing to follow numerous state and federal laws, contributing to the loss of more than $64 million in just three years for the NRA.

In the complaint, the Attorney General lays out dozens of examples where the four individual defendants failed to fulfill their fiduciary duty to the NRA and used millions upon millions from NRA reserves for personal use, including trips for them and their families to the Bahamas, private jets, expensive meals, and other private travel.

16-Jan-21
Dana, You choose to believe those charges until proven to be valid. I don’t. Because the sole interest of the attorney general is dissolving the NRA. If you are comfortable with that source as the gospel, I can’t help you.

These accusations have been out for a while. Maybe they are true. But, if they were, there’d be no NRA at this point. While LaPierre might not be the best guy, it’s hard to suggest he hasn’t done a great job and, the NRA is flawed by these men.

Have you ever stopped for one second and thought that maybe the negative press is a direct attempt to remove potent and successful people from positions of authority To Weaken the Organization? Of course not. You are a liberal bent to convince us dumb folk we are in no danger of losing our right bear arms. That there is no need for the NRA. I don’t hold much reserve for a mind that works like that, in times like this. So, by all means, express your thoughts. But, you are talking to the wrong guy about that or the NRA’s problems. If they have them. And, if they do, it isn’t your business or anyone else’s who isn’t a member.

From: JL
16-Jan-21
I think it would be unrealistic for a state AG to file a suit against a high profile company such as the NRA without having some kind provable or supportable basis. Otherwise they could be setting the state up for a counter lawsuit. Plus....when Ollie sounded the alarm and was then canned by the current leadership....red flags started going up for me. Ollie has been around the block enough times to know something may not be right. Him I trust....if he speaks, it's worthy to listen to see what he has to say. He still hasn't come out yet to tell his side....I've been waiting for that. I'm speculating if/when Ollie gets subpoenaed to testify, he will then speak. Below is from his Wiki page.

"National Rifle Association

On May 7, 2018, the National Rifle Association (NRA) announced that North would become the organization's next president within the following weeks.[59][60] He succeeded Pete Brownell, the incumbent. North is a board member in the NRA and appeared at NRA national conventions in 2007[61] and 2008.[62]

North began his term as president in September 2018.[63]

In April 2019, in the midst of a wide-ranging dispute involving the NRA's chief executive Wayne LaPierre, the NRA's advertising agency Ackerman McQueen, and the NRA's law firm Brewer Attorneys & Counselors,[64] North announced that he would not serve a second term as president,[65][66] ostensibly against his wishes.[67] On April 24, 2019, North asked LaPierre to resign.[64][68] On April 16, 2019, North and NRA first vice president Richard Childress wrote to the chairman of the NRA audit committee and the NRA's secretary and general counsel calling for an independent audit of the billing from the NRA's law firm, Brewer Attorneys & Counselors.[69][70][71] In an April 24, 2019 letter to the executive committee of the NRA board, North said that he was forming a committee to investigate alleged financial improprieties, allegations which he said threatened the NRA's non-profit status.[69] In an April 25, 2019 letter to the NRA board, LaPierre said that North was threatening to release damaging information about him.[66] On April 27, 2019, in a letter read on his behalf at the NRA's annual convention in Indianapolis, Indiana, North announced he would not serve a second term.[68] North's term ended on April 29, 2019, when he was replaced by Carolyn D. Meadows.[72] On May 3, 2019, Senators Ron Wyden of Oregon, Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island, and Bob Menendez of New Jersey, members of the Senate Finance Committee, wrote to North, LaPierre, and the NRA's advertising agency Ackerman McQueen requesting copies of the letters to the NRA board by North and LaPierre, seeking documents related to the allegations, and directing records preservation.[73][74] "

16-Jan-21
I have no zero research into this lately. But, the lawsuit seems to be based on interpretation. Yes, I do t want mistresses, huge family vacations, extravagant spending in anyway by the group or anyone in it. But, I’m also smart enough to know I don’t see any charges that’s not based on personal interpretation. Nothing concrete.

From: Stix
16-Jan-21
New York post is a conservative rag. The fact they added no counter commentary in the article I copied and paste'd speaks volumes.

The NRA's original mission to train civilian marksmanship was noble. Their entrance into the political arena, fueled by the sole interests of firearms manufacturers is not.

Like Trump, they've learned that wading into an area people are passionate about ensures them plenty of $$$ from deep pockets. Just another way to fleece the American public.

16-Jan-21
If it’s true, time will tell.

16-Jan-21
Woods,

Funny how you give the NRA a pass for the same behaviors you incessantly rail against the government on. Either clean up their act or let a new organization rise from the ashes. Not one more dime from me, Wayne must go.

From: KY EyeBow
16-Jan-21
Whether you like them or not, the NRA is our biggest lobby for the 2nd Amendment and sportsmen in general. If they go down, it will be a detriment to sportsmen across the USA.

From: YZF-88
16-Jan-21
Maybe they shouldn’t have focused efforts on other things instead of shoving crossbows down the throat of every friggin state.

From: YZF-88
16-Jan-21
Maybe they shouldn’t have focused efforts on other things instead of shoving crossbows down the throat of every friggin state.

From: Woods Walker
16-Jan-21
HFW: I never said they were perfect and like any organization they need to address any issues they have. My point is that even with the "warts" we still NEED the NRA. And what is going to happen in the coming weeks/months will illustrate that like never before.

On the other hand, you must also consider WHO's leveling these charges, none other than KKK man himself (that's K ovid K iller Kuomo) and his AG hit-woman. Cuomo HATES us and will do and stop at nothing to damage us in whatever way he can. He is scum.

We're at war, pick a side.

16-Jan-21
Woods...having left NY ten+ years ago I totally agree with you! Check rural NY's opinion of Cuomo. Cities out-vote the rural folk. If TX does not want the NRA; they would be very welcome in OK...we booted the only Dem we had in Congress last Nov. I am an endowed life member and support any of the hunting/fishing/2nd Amend. organizations.

16-Jan-21
Woods...having left NY ten+ years ago I totally agree with you! Check rural NY's opinion of Cuomo. Cities out-vote the rural folk. If TX does not want the NRA; they would be very welcome in OK...we booted the only Dem we had in Congress last Nov. I am an endowed life member and support any of the hunting/fishing/2nd Amend. organizations.

16-Jan-21
Bingo to WW. Pick a side.

From: Zim
16-Jan-21

Zim's embedded Photo
Zim's embedded Photo
Used to be a member, but their promoting of crossguns during archery seasons was the last straw for me. They need to stick to protecting 2nd amendment rights. Not exploiting deer herds with crappy management practices.

Every Tom, Dick & Harry gun hunter packin crossguns destroyed especially the early season public land bow hunting quality in my best areas in both Indiana & Illinois. What does “archery” deer hunting have to do with the 2nd Amendment???............ZERO! Absolutely ZERO.

From: JL
16-Jan-21
Picking sides is easy....picking who leads the charge...different story.

From: Highlife
16-Jan-21
I wholeheartedly agree JL

From: DanaC
16-Jan-21
Well said, JL.

From: KsRancher
16-Jan-21
^THIS.

From: JL
16-Jan-21
The NRA or their goals isn't the issue....most folks can agree with that. The leadership is the face of the organization, the members and sets the course for the organization. The leadership has to operate well beyond reproach or they lose the confidence of the membership and the public. The leadership's alleged dubious actions become they story instead of the 2A agenda. It's tough for any organization to go on the offense if they're on the defense all the time.

From: drycreek
16-Jan-21
I’ve been a staunch defender and contributor to the NRA for years. I’m a lifetime benefactor member, but like some of the others have said, since La Pierre’s problems surfaced I’ve not given a dime, and won’t until things change for the better. I do not know how deep or wide the corruption goes, but I’d like to know, and I’d like to see it excised as well. As for them moving to Texas, they have a big headquarters in VA, I would imagine they will just re-incorporate in Texas, but still be headquartered where they are. Either way, until leadership changes for the better, they can kiss my a$$ !

From: GF
16-Jan-21
I didn’t realize they were so involved in pushing crossbows, but HOW FREAKING STUPID was THAT???

Now that crossbows are legal for archery season, firearms (shotgun) tag sales are way down around here. Why? Because if you own a crossbow in a shotgun state, you’d have to be an idiot to even bother with a shorter, later season that doesn’t even start ‘til after peak rut. Let alone spending on a tag.

IOW, if you can hunt Archery with a crossbow..... you have NO REASON TO OWN A FIREARM.

How that squares with their “mission” is beyond me.

“ But, by no means hold an unrealistic scenario against any of them because a liberal charged them with such offenses.”

You’re calling Ollie North a liberal???

That fits right in with the NRA eliminating reasons to own a firearm, logic-wise.....

From: WapitiBob
16-Jan-21
It might get interesting

"Major NRA donor to challenge gun group's bankruptcy over alleged fraud

A major donor to the National Rifle Association is poised to challenge key aspects of the gun group’s bankruptcy filing, in an attempt to hold executives accountable for allegedly having defrauded their members of millions of dollars to support their own lavish lifestyles..."

From: JL
16-Jan-21

JL's Link
The link to that above article and some more from it. More red flags in the last paragraph. Ouch.....

"Drawing on details uncovered by the former NRA president Oliver North, Dell’Aquila alleged that “LaPierre had received hundreds of thousands of dollars in clothing, private jet travel and other benefits”.

The suit points to $243,644 spent on luxury travel to the Bahamas, Palm Beach and Italy and $274,695 dispensed at clothing stores in Beverly Hills.

The NRA tried to have the civil suit dismissed, arguing Dell’Aquila had no standing to bring the action. But the judge allowed the case to go ahead with respect to individual claims of fraud on the part of NRA leaders in their solicitation of donations.

In November, the Wall Street Journal reported that the NRA had admitted current and former executives received at least $1.4m in improper or excessive benefits. The disclosure was made in tax filings."

17-Jan-21
There must be much deeper financial problems than LaPierre. His quarter million dollar squander does not bankrupt an organization of this magnitude. I think the cost to fight in todays world, is merely the eventual loss.

Remember, we have "hunters" here who voted for the opposition, they are the real problem, the worst kind of antihunters.

From: drycreek
17-Jan-21
GF, did you hit your head ? “If you own a crossbow there’s no reason to own a firearm” Where does that reasoning come from ? I own one crossbow and more than two dozen firearms. Most guys that I know own way more firearms than bows, even though some of them bow hunt. The world is just a little bigger than you think it is.

From: Woods Walker
17-Jan-21
Some people have crossbow-aphobia, and it tends to cloud most everything they do.

From: Highlife
17-Jan-21
Crossbow-aphobia lol Lou I'd like permission to reuse that.

From: Stix
17-Jan-21
We don't need the NRA or any other organization, and it's a bad decision to make them your God. Once they feel that they are 'needed' they know they can step in and fleece the folks that have this type of passion., much like the supporters of Trump who say they would 'die for him'.

Do yourself a favor, back off and with a clear mind ask yourself, : If any other non-profit organization is ripe with fraud, would you support them?

What is needed is, in the same circumstance, is the same passion from their membership as the capitol mob. Resign your membership, storm their building, demand your money back, and then wait until they completely reorganize to examine whether to join again.

From: Woods Walker
17-Jan-21
Highlife: Be my guest!

From: Wild Bill
17-Jan-21
NRA life member here.

In Connecticut we lost our state advocates for archery related legislation. Bow hunters are without a voice in the state capitol. Anyone wanting to organize and pull together people caring about their sport will have to start from scratch. They've been gone at least eight years and nobody comes close to replacing them. Lots of talk and a dearth of action.

How do you suppose that will work on a national loss of organization? Start over? Really? Who, you?

From: JL
17-Jan-21
Stix.....unless I'm missing something, these lawsuits appear to be civil matters directed towards the leadership and not criminal. The NRA leadership will have their day in court to present their side in the lawsuit(s).

If LaPierre is indeed being investigated for tax fraud as your pic above states, then we're talking criminal issues against him and not the NRA.

From: DanaC
17-Jan-21
"There must be much deeper financial problems than LaPierre. His quarter million dollar squander does not bankrupt an organization of this magnitude."

I have to wonder how much was diverted towards political contributions, without the knowledge and approval of either the Board of Directors or the membership at large. Costs a lot to be a 'player' in DC.

From: WapitiBob
17-Jan-21
Not hard to see why leadership wants to leave town....

Aug. 6, 2020, 3:48 PM PDT By Erik Ortiz

"On Thursday, LaPierre's position as CEO and executive vice president of the most dominant gun lobby in the United States became more precarious after New York Attorney General Letitia James sued him and three other high-ranking current or former NRA executives, alleging that they have undercut the nonprofit organization's charitable mission by engaging in illegal financial conduct.

That includes diverting tens of millions of dollars for personal trips and expenditures, lucrative no-show contracts to buy people's silence and other improper spending, according to the lawsuit.

"The NRA was serving as a personal piggy bank for four individual defendants," James, a Democrat, said at a news conference.

LaPierre is named in the suit along with Wilson "Woody" Phillips, a former NRA treasurer and chief financial officer; Joshua Powell, a former chief of staff and executive director of general operations; and John Frazer, the corporate secretary and general counsel.

The suit says their actions contributed to the loss of more than $64 million in three years as they enriched themselves and overrode and evaded internal controls ... without regard to the NRA's best interests."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wayne-lapierre-allegedly-used-nra-personal-piggy-bank-n-y-n1236068

From: Woods Walker
17-Jan-21
LMAO! Like the STATE OF NEW YORK, run by none other than Andrew "Covid Killer" Cuomo actually give a rat's *** in hell about the "NRA's best interests".

Anyone who believes that is a delusional fool. Cuomo and other like minded politicians will stop at NOTHING to destroy the NRA. Lies, deceit, whatever.

"C'mon man!"

17-Jan-21
Exactly.

From: Stix
17-Jan-21
Or, it will be unlike the NRA wants it to be and made it into.

And this comment coming from me, a life member.

From: Bowbender
17-Jan-21
This is what the 2A meant to the FF. What's it mean to you Stix? The FF were smart enough to know that the evolution of EVERY government since the beginning of history is to increase it's power and rule over the people. There are those that will wet themselves like puppies and roll over to offer up any orifice in appeasement....and well those that won't.

"A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..." - George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

"I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

"To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of." - James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country." - James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

"...the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone..." - James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." - William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun." - Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." - St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance ofpower is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one-half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves." - Thomas Paine, "Thoughts on Defensive War" in Pennsylvania Magazine, July 1775

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them." - Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833

"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty .... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins." - Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress 750, August 17, 1789

"For it is a truth, which the experience of ages has attested, that the people are always most in danger when the means of injuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion." - Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 25, December 21, 1787

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair." - Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

"[I]f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist." - Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788

From: JL
17-Jan-21
^.....All of that is directed at firearms. I honestly do not think it is not beyond the realm possibility that some day, someone in power will attempt to force those same Biden anti-gun rules on archery equipment. Fathom for a second that one day you may have to get a background check to buy a bow or crossbow. Maybe you can't buy arrows or broadheads online. Your quiver can't hold more than 3 arrows. Don't laugh or say someone will never try to do just that......

From: Pat Lefemine
17-Jan-21
I have to hand it to the Democrats, they had their s**t together this election; A masterful takedown of the NRA which effectively took them out of the game before it started; then using Covid to gut election integrity rules in the swing states which gave them the presidency and the Senate. Once the elections were won, they took away Trump's ability to communicate, and then killed off the only platform with enough scale to provide a voice to conservative leaders.

And some of you guys are worried about the NRA supporting crossbows ten years ago? SMH..

17-Jan-21
Bingo Pat. We got some real priority here. I mean, it’s mind boggling reading this crap. I guess their local bow club will protect our right to bear arms. But, the first time they try to push a hoyt on me, I’m out.

Unbelievable.

From: Stix
17-Jan-21
If it's truly a right, then can it be taken away? And who takes it away?

From: Glunt@work
17-Jan-21
No it can't be taken away but it can be infringed upon (like now) or people can be completely prevented from exercising it through force.

From: Woods Walker
17-Jan-21

Woods Walker's embedded Photo
Woods Walker's embedded Photo
We're getting down to the last one......

From: Stix
17-Jan-21
The only rightsthat man can't take away are your God given rights,........ anything man made will fail you.

17-Jan-21
Stix, Don’ t you suppose the right to be a Christian requires the freedom to protect your values. By force if need be? Or, are we all to be complacent until that is infringed upon until it’s fruitless to do so?

From: trublucolo
17-Jan-21
Today's existing 2A rights in America wouldn't be what they are if it weren't for the efforts of the NRA in the past, and I'm hoping this has been a wake up call for them because if it isn't, we've lost the only voice we really had in DC regarding the 2A. If anybody thinks our "conservative" republican representatives that people keep sending back to congress year after year are going to fight for our rights, look no further than how easily they rolled over for the democrats when it came to the election meddling this past year.

From: Glunt@work
17-Jan-21
The right keep and bear arms isn't man made. The 2A discusses and clarifies some limitations on the Government regarding it but specifically refers to it as an existing right. It exists even if the 2A is taken out of the Constitution.

From: Stix
17-Jan-21
So if I moved to Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Iceland, England, Greenland, Italy, Spain, France, etc, etc, then I'm in jeopardy of being unable to practice my faith because those countries have nothing equivalent to our 2nd amendment?

Why are you all living in constant fear?

From: Dutch oven
17-Jan-21
Unfortunately a site I turn to to catch up on archery information continues to degrade itself into political discussion which inevitably leads to bickering, name-calling, religion, etc. by members.

17-Jan-21
Nope. Living in the reality that if we don’t fight to keep it as it, we will be just like those other countries. You can fairytale all day and make up senseless reasons to not do that. However, I feel it’s every Americans duty to take the responsibility of keeping individual rights as a priority.

We are America. Not any place else. And setting around peace’d out is neglect. Because the reality of what it takes to keep it America requires commitment and dedication. Or, we will loose it. One little piece at a time.

Dutch Oven, don’t click on the thread. Your own words said you knew what you’d find. I reckon you couldn’t pass up the bickering and arguing.

From: Stix
18-Jan-21
So there is a problem with "turning into" the countries that were listed?

From: DanaC
18-Jan-21
Nobody can 'take' your rights, but you may have a government which does not recognize or protect your rights, which IS the proper function of governments. "...in order to secure these rights, governments are instituted among Men..."

The person living in North Korea has exactly the same rights as you; what he does not have is a government constituted to protect his rights. (And yes, by this logic, many governments are illegitimate and could be destroyed without a backward glance. IF we're ready to give them a better one.)

But anyway, we're really down a rat hole now...

18-Jan-21
Stix, if we want to discuss those countries and the world in general. Each one listed has already neutered their citizens. England, France, Spain each had their turn ruling the world. Each went through what we are experiencing right now.

An elite class, taking more and more from the working class and working wealthy to fund their schemes. Each slid from being a world leader to an observer.

People may think that’s fine. But who is going to keep the wolves at bay. For the last 100 yrs it’s been the USA that has kept world peace and dictators and lunatic religions from killing innocent people.

So how do you think New Zealand, Greenland and Iceland would have cleaned out ISIS or protected them selves if they got to their shores.

Every empire has about 300 yrs. what’s different about the US, is while we were at the top we protected other nations. We don’t conquer them. Unfortunately the next in line appears to be China. Do you think New Zealand can protect themselves against China. And history has always shown that a band of weak countries submit and do not stand up for themselves or others. It takes a dominant military with good intentions. The left will gut the military first. Then gut the economy so we can take our place along former world leaders like the Romans, Spain, England, The Ottoman and France.

This is the beginning of that slid into oblivion

From: trublucolo
18-Jan-21
Jay gets it. Apparently some of you are going to be okay with living under U.N. mandates where China and Russia have a bigger voice than the U.S. Your tacit support of Joe Biden and his administration should just about close the door.

18-Jan-21
Jay does get it IMHO. What others don’t get is that believing DJT or the current version of the NRA are self serving entities that in the long run will do more harm than good in returning us to Constitutional principles does not make the person a dumb, blind, commie sheep. You are alienating people who want to help with the cause but can see far enough down the road to know we just might end up replacing one strain of extremism with another. Someone posted here once in response to disagreement with the right, “we know who you are and you will not last long”. Words like that ought to scare the hell out of all of us, that’s not what our Founders sought to build upon.

Pat, I understand at risk of being banned, but our situation today demands all of us find the courage to dialogue our love of this country in an attempt to prevent bloodshed or a possible Civil War.

The left might have taken advantage of situations, but let’s be honest, those situations were handed to them. The NRA has admitted to some improper use of funds, Trump rhetoric on Twitter and other media inflamed at times and at times it did little to help the cause and even damaged our ability to do so. Maybe it felt good to many, but our country was built on sacrifice. I don’t blame the left any more than I blame those on the right that helped prevent another 4 years of conservative judicial appointments, we would of had a much better chance to do so if one person could have sacrificed at times and remained quiet. That’s all it would have taken to secure our God given rights for another entire generation or more.

We have a leadership vacuum for certain on the right. The issues that brought trump to power are real and still exist. Not enough will coalesce around his leadership now, we must move forward, and on this National Holiday hopefully we are reminded that conservatives must find their own MLK who can unite not divide, that knows love will triumph over hate in the long run.

I understand I will be mocked for these words. Understand I am moved by my love of country to take that risk.

From: Woods Walker
18-Jan-21
If you really think that what's about to happen to this country on January 20th 2021, is a "move forward" you are delusional and you have a strange way of showing "love".

18-Jan-21
I agree that we could all use a MLK right now. He of course wasn’t a perfect man either. But never condoned violence for his cause.

18-Jan-21
Woods,

I am, as you, an imperfect human being. I am not running for any position of leadership though, I am not qualified in either credentials or behavior.

I believe on January 20th, what is prescribed in the Constitution will be carried out, hopefully. The truth is, I will use someone else's words here, a slim majority of Americans did not like or think enough of trump to re-elect him. Some of you cannot accept it. I don't like it, I accept it, and want to work on making sure 2022 and beyond go more in the conservative direction I support.

The fact that you chose to post only what you disagree with says a lot of what is in your heart as well. All of us must have the courage to look inward now, and that includes me.

From: Zim
18-Jan-21

Zim's Link
“And some of you guys are worried about the NRA supporting crossbows ten years ago? SMH.”——— Woah! Try a fresh three years ago for their poison here in Illinois! And you can bet the ranch they will be promoting it in the last stronghold, Iowa, as soon as the right legislator is greased. Once again, used to be a member, but their promoting of crossguns during archery seasons was the last straw for me. They need to stick to protecting 2nd amendment rights. I don’t see anything in their mission statement about exploiting deer herds with crappy management practices. The last time I checked, the ILDNR employs real live educated wildlife professionals to manage wildlife. I think they’re a little more qualified to manage the wildlife than greased politicians & special interest groups looking for coin from their members to short cut the system. Every Tom, Dick & Harry gun hunter packin crossguns destroyed especially the early season public land bow hunting quality in my best areas in both Indiana & Illinois. Again, what does “archery” deer hunting have to do with the 2nd Amendment???............ZERO! Absolutely ZERO.

From: JL
18-Jan-21

JL's embedded Photo
JL's embedded Photo
Seeing as how Dr King was invoked....I'll borrow a line from him and re-work it for today's society. I have often thought about this when I see what's going on out there. He said we should judge someone by the content of their character. You hear a lot about systemic racism. What I see today is a systemic failure of character. MLK would be sad.

Back on the NRA topic.......seen this pic floating around.

From: Surfbow
18-Jan-21
"So there is a problem with "turning into" the countries that were listed?"

Geez Stix, how far have you buried your head in the sand?

From: Stix
18-Jan-21
My point...

Nothing good ever comes out of the toxicity on these threads.

From: Will
18-Jan-21
Only posting this as so many have invoked Dr King, which given the day is cool. A Cognitive Scientist (Steven Pinker) I really like reading shared a great bit of Dr King's writing today, and it's great. H4W's post above, especially his last point, really triggered it for me. https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/king-papers/documents/my-pilgrimage-nonviolence

That said, if an organization is massively corrupt, and they are brought down, is it the person who brought them down or the organization's fault? The root cause of the NRA is noble, good, and necessary.

I was talking with a liberal friend about this the other day. He agreed, their needs to be an organization which helps teach legislators about firearms, their use, and the 2A. My first sense when this occurred (bankruptcy) was that there needed to be some new organization in it's wake - which could fill those roles. But no, I think the NRA needs to rise from it's previous self into a better organization for the future.

From: JL
18-Jan-21

JL's Link
There are alternative orgs......

From: SteveD
18-Jan-21
Agree with Zim. They helped ruin what used to be a bowhunting season in Wisconsin.

From: grizzly63
18-Jan-21
So, back to the NRA, can the members take action to remove the bad actors?

From: trublucolo
18-Jan-21
"So, back to the NRA, can the members take action to remove the bad actors?"

Flood them with emails, letters and phone calls - put them on notice specifically as to why you intend to walk away. I think a lot of people failed to renew for good reasons, but they failed to vocalize to the NRA why they were walking away. I know some voiced their dismay, but I never saw a concerted, organized push back by members. I fully support letting them die off if they continue down the same path after being put on notice.

18-Jan-21
If they are clueless as to why membership is dropping as a new president comes in, then they are beyond help with the current team.

Maybe they should spend less time traveling and more time reading sites like this.

From: GF
18-Jan-21
“ What I see today is a systemic failure of character. ”

Can’t argue with that.

From: Wild Bill
19-Jan-21

Wild Bill's embedded Photo
Wild Bill's embedded Photo

From: tundrajumper
19-Jan-21
Trump Jr. President for the NRA

19-Jan-21
It’s funny to me to read the stories of men on these pages who spend lavishly pursuing game and such. $40,000 hunts for sheep, three or four hunts per year equaling at least that amount, guys who pay $50-100 per broadhead, or spend thousands and thousands on clothes to hunt in, complain about a guy who’s led the NRA through the most divisive, historically radical time in American history. Not only that but, in the face of country men and foreign governments that would love to further restrict the 2nd Amendment, he’s managed to grow your rights under the 2nd amendment. And,while doing so, he put more clout and power to the term gun ownership and the 2nd Amendment.

I don’t know all the facts. If LaPierre has abused his power, then I’m all for calling him out and holding him accountable. In house. And, the last thing I’d ever fathom is cut ties with the organization that’s done more for all our freedoms, then any private or government entity in history.

But, I’m a simple guy. And, I’m not butthurt over crossbows. So, I reckon that’s why I see it that way. And I’m hoping all those that are butthurt, will rush to save our Freedoms with their bows drawn and ready.

I shake my head at these threads. I guess I’m too stupid to even get where the opposing side is coming from.

19-Jan-21
It’s really pretty simple Jason. If we want to try and return our country to a place of mutual respect, we hold everyone accountable to the same degree for their behaviors. While admitting we are all human, we don’t look the other way for wrongful acts just because the person shares our philosophy.

Such behavior takes us down the road to power corrupting, like we see too often today. And then we stand back and wonder how we got here.

The NRA can do the work we expect and we do not have to accept corruption for them to do so. It really is that simple, men make it more complex because it suites them.

From: 4nolz@work
19-Jan-21
I didn't read all the posts but it sounds like NY isn't going to let them leave much less file for bankruptcy protection.NRA ver 2.0 probably coming.

From: Zim
19-Jan-21
Butthurt WV, Exactly what don’t you understand about exploiting wildlife with crappy management practices? The last time I checked, the ILDNR employs real live educated wildlife professionals to manage wildlife. I think they’re a little more qualified to manage the wildlife than greased politicians & special interest groups looking for coin from their members to short cut the system. Why can’t the NRA just spend its money and energy defending the 2nd amendment??? That’s what their mission statement claims, isn’t it? Please answer, don’t run away or avoid the question! What the hell does deer hunting have to do with the 2nd amendment? What is their business? Deer management or constitutional rights???

From: Zim
19-Jan-21
Butthurt WV, I don’t see anywhere in this mission statement where it says the NRA’s goal is to circumvent wildlife professionals from doing their job of managing deer herds. There’s not even mention of hunting! Perhaps you can help us all out?

"To protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, especially with reference to the inalienable right of the individual American citizen guaranteed by such Constitution to acquire, possess, collect, exhibit, transport, carry, transfer ownership of, and enjoy the right to use arms."

19-Jan-21
Frank, I’m going to assume you meant me. But, it auto corrected to Jason. Anyways, I agree 100%. I also said as much. What I think is absurd is the amount of people who are taking the lawsuit peoples word for it that WANT to see the NRA fail. It’s a civil suit. And, once again, if LaPierre is guilty of breaking laws, well find out about it.

Zim, I’m not sure where that’s coming from. But, I don’t think crossbows are hurting herds. If they are, please share applicable information. If you’ve got knowledge of a state wildlife agency taking that stance, I’d like to hear it. I’m not being a wise guy either. I’d like to know. Because I’m basing my stance on them not doing so.

So, I’ll say this, I don’t like them in the woods in any season except rifle. I don’t think they belong in bow season. I hate that they even are considered a bow of any sorts. And, I don’t like the idea of the NRA pushing for their use. However, I don’t look at it like you do. As a detriment to wildlife management. Because I’ve never seen proof of that. I look at it as a tool to get more people hunting. Which we need. And, I rationalize that was the NRA’s thinking. So, if they do hurt wildlife management, I’ll say I was wrong. If they haven’t yet, I can guarantee those that are pissed about it, are butthurt over the NRA doing it.

It’s ignorant to me to bail out on an organization that is the only thing keeping legislation at bay against the 2nd Amendment. By all means, Boycott contributions, right emails, letters, whatever you got to do so they hear you. By all means, join as a life member and VOTE for the candidate that promises to fix the problem. But, bail over crossbows? FWIW, the NRA solely devoted one of its two publications to Hunters and Hunting. That’s a 50% stake in goal objectives. That’s a pretty good piece of the pie for any organization of that size. Who knows though, maybe you are right. If you are, I’ll openly state so once you provide the info to say so.

From: Zim
19-Jan-21
WV, Ya gotta be crappin me. “Not sure where that’s coming from?” You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to pull all the harvest stats you want from WI & IN DNR websites, even two years stats in IL. But that’s not half the impact than if you just have me drag your sorry arse up an ammunition bunker at Kingsbury FWA in September and have you show me all the mature bucks that used to be seen from there every year. There are none today after ten years of firearm hunters cashing in their shotguns and flooding the fields on October 1st. Go in the HQ building and get the last ten year’s “bow” & gun season stats. You will see after ten years, the “bow” harvest finally eclipsed gun harvests in IN. The deer hunting quality on IN public now totally sucks. Get yourself sum first hand learnin son.

The NRA has no business proclaiming themselves wildlife managers. Determining seasons, weapons, etc. It’s not their business. But they are more than willing to if it puts more coin in their pocket. Why don’t you just cut the crap and justify the mission statement as I requested? It’s a very simple request!

From: GF
19-Jan-21
“ I look at it as a tool to get more people hunting. Which we need. And, I rationalize that was the NRA’s thinking.”

If people take up hunting with crossbows, enjoying seasons that run for MONTHS instead of days or (rarely) weeks, why the hell would they ever invest in equipment that provides a minimal increase in effective range and then buy an ADDITIONAL tag for a shorter season with less advantageous timing????

This may shock you guys, but once upon a time, people got interested in HUNTING first, and became “Gun Guys” as a result. And most people, being self-interested first, aren’t going to care about legislation affecting purchases they have no reason to make.

Meanwhile, Hunting is one of the few reasons that most non-hunters recognize as a “legitimate” reason for civilians to own firearms. No need to explain the flaws in their logic; it is what it is, and there are more of “them” than there are of “us”. And when things come to a Vote, that’s all that matters.

And with the push to allow crossbows in Archery seasons, all the “NRA” did was to remove one compelling reason to own a firearm.

Good luck explaining how that helps anything related to preserving the right to own one.

From: Zim
19-Jan-21
GF - The NRA are not wildlife managers. They are 2nd amendment defenders. The NRA’s thinking was “how can we put more coin in our pockets” via support from gun hunters short cutting legitimate deer season management. Anything else and you are just fantasizing or crappin yourself. Follow the money.

The crossgun is a “tool” alright.........a very effective “tool” to attain crappy deer management.

From: Wild Bill
20-Jan-21
"The NRA’s thinking was “how can we put more coin in our pockets” via support from gun hunters short cutting legitimate deer season management. Anything else and you are just fantasizing or crappin yourself."

zim, That's displaying your hypocrisy. Mind reading the NRA, and if anyone disagrees with your assessment, they're fantasizing.

"The last time I checked, the ILDNR employs real live educated wildlife professionals to manage wildlife. I think they’re a little more qualified to manage the wildlife than greased politicians & special interest groups looking for coin from their members to short cut the system. "

The professionals you refer to are college graduates in the administrative state, whom the politicians have given the job of knowing more than they do on any particular topic. Instead of legislating with understanding, they fall back on "experts", who in reality may not be the best in their field, but have authority given them by government employment, and therein lies their loyalty. Sometimes their special interest is simply staying employed.

zim, Your trust of government is flawed.

20-Jan-21
Zim I can’t address a narrative that you’ve invented to justify or develop an opinion on any subject. Especially one that I see as totally bogus. Because the last time I checked, game departments set quotas. And used season and tag allotments to try and meet them. Not the NRA.

I’ll never stop being amazed at the perspectives some people can generate based on emotions.

Do your thing Zim. I’ll do mine. Take care and God Bless men.

20-Jan-21
"My trust of government"? As I read these posts I have been backing my mind up; recalling what I can of having studied 'governments' for 60 years, and have been unable to come up with anything that government(s) have ever solved. Personally I could support the entire Congress resigning and we start over...under the Constitution. Beware trusting governments. Most of you will recall that ancient Greek who went looking for an 'honest' man. His quest failed. I will blindly stand with the NRA; supporting removal of any leadership found failing. I will blindly stand with any organization that supports hunting in any legal way along with preservation and conservation of wildlife and encourages reasonable control of wolves. But when it comes to government(s)...I will keep both eyes open when it comes to them...until I am dead! Governments have always been abusive in some way and always will be. If we who post here enjoy our hunting; and I am sure we do, I hope we will always support those organizations who fight for our rights.

From: Woods Walker
20-Jan-21
X2 newfi. What is the purpose of the Constitution in the first place? To limit GOVERNMENT, not the people.

That's why the career politicians keep trying to change/limit it. Our founding fathers knew this and is the whole REASON for the 2A in the first place.

20-Jan-21
Perhaps Trumps new political party will offer some hope.

20-Jan-21
Missouri, Woods...Bingo on both of your points. Today at 11:00 am Central Time, I am going to step outside my rural home and exercise my 2nd Amend. right to firearms and prepare for coyote breeding season. This day I (we) are exercising our 1st Amend. right to free, published truths. As I do so, I recall a speech given by Steve Bieko, (the true story, 'Cry Freedom') , during which he answers what he saw as "conflict". The South African government later killed him as they had done to many others. Either our government works to prevent conflict, right as much as possible wrongs; be inclusive of all law-abiding citizens AND does NOT alter ANY provisions of the CONSTITUTION! If it doesn't it will fail...period; regardless of political persuasion. Beware of media and government...they make poor bed fellows. Stand strong and stand together for right and equality; for, if we do not, our grandchildren are going to suffer greatly.

From: Woods Walker
21-Jan-21
Just got this from the Illinois State Rifle Association. He nails it...........

ISRA Thursday Bulletin - January 21, 2021

Executive Directors Message Richard Pearson

By now most of you know the NRA has filed Chapter 11 Bankruptcy. Chapter 11 is protection from creditors, not complete bankruptcy. The NRA has also announced it will reincorporate in Texas. The NRA Board of Directors and Wayne LaPierre have been chastised and applauded for these moves. I am on the applauding side of these moves. It has been suggested many times that the NRA, which was founded and incorporated in New York State in 1871, move out of New York to a more friendly state. It’s too bad it had to happen this way but at least it is getting done.

In a peculiar way, New York State’s Attorney General vowed to destroy the NRA and subsequent lawsuits may have actually saved it. Every state has regulations but in places like New York, they are used to milk all the money possible out of businesses and protecting the public is secondary. New York is a snake pit of a place to do business, in any case, but when the state decides it does not like what you are doing or who and what you represent, it is unsurvivable.

It will take a while to relocate and restructure the NRA in Texas but in the end, the NRA and American gun owners will be better off. I know some will say it should have never happened. Well, it did; now let’s move on and do our part to help rebuild the NRA. For some reason, gun owners always want to form a circular firing squad and execute everyone, including themselves. Let’s not do that and save all that energy for our true enemies.

From: 4nolz@work
21-Jan-21
Heck Texas will be Blue by then.

From: Zim
21-Jan-21
Wild Bill, Your spinning of the facts only confirms what I said! I'm the one who clearly criticized "greased politicians & special interest groups" for hijacking the management of wildlife. Then you post and claim I have "trust of government"? WTF???

Now please..............Cut the crap and answer the question rather than avoiding it again & again. What does “archery” deer hunting have to do with the 2nd Amendment??? Where is this in the NRA's mission statement???

Bill, Your trust in the NRA is greatly flawed. I'm totally done with them unless they get crossguns out of the archery seasons...........for starters.

From: Bowbender
21-Jan-21
"Bill, Your trust in the NRA is greatly flawed. I'm totally done with them unless they get crossguns out of the archery seasons...........for starters."

So instead of focusiong their energies on fighting for the 2A you want them TO focus on deer hunting, specifically archery seasons? As a Bowsiter once put it (Kathy) "Have you lost your ****ing mind?"

BTW, As much as I hated the NRA for lobbying for crossbows in PA in 2009, we've seen an increase in the length of our bow season, archery bear season, longer late season....

Carry on, Quixote.

From: TD
21-Jan-21
Incredible how clueless folks are about the NY AG and NY in general. This AG has filed suit against anything and anybody remotely leaning right for the last several years. It's a political attack on ideology, not upholding the law. Filed suits from Trump to.... surprise surprise.... the NRA. Just their Covid debacle could be a whole 'nother thread. (debacle-S now, recently having to literally dump out vaccines delivered to them due to their total ineptness.... or more likely, vindictiveness.)

The former NYC Mayor, Presidential Candidate and Billionaire, lil Mikey Bloomburg has dumped over $60,000,000 of his own money directly into trying to take away your guns.... your rights. "Nobody is coming for your guns....." You've got to be kidding, right? You seriously trying to sell that? They are coming for all your rights. And I hear "Awww, come on guys..... it's just few little things we're giving up.... small sacrifice for the Globalist Cause." Little wonder the left hackles up when words like Patriot and Freedom and America First are used...... used to be they were a good thing. Now those things just stand in their way....

NY isn't doing this because of LaPierre. These people could care less about ethics, morals, rules or law. They just elected a President caught red handed selling influence to Ukraine, China, Russia and others for millions and millions of dollars of personal gain.... and clearly have no problems with it. LePierre is a flyspeck in comparison to Biden's actions. They are attacking gun owners and the 2nd amendment. A direct attack on them because they stand in Leftist's way, their push of domination and control..... of everything and everyone. They aren't attacking the NRA because they are impotent and weak. They are attacking them because they have been a formidable force in protecting AMERICAN CITIZENS rights against these people. Flippin' Globalists and..... crossbows? huh? (facepalm...)

As Trump so accurately said, they aren't after me.... they are really after YOU. I'm just standing in their way.....

WRT the NRA..... that's an in house problem that can be cleared up. And will be cleared up. If LaPerre and gang have been ripping us off then hang em as a warning to those who replace them and move on. The legal move to get out of NY will be well worth it if it means being done with their evil and less of our money going to them. So we get busy and fix it. Seems some who are the most aggrieved and offended are the least active in effecting they change they demand. Must be somebody else's job.....If it needs to be fixed then lets get in and fix it.

All I know is we need people, an organization standing in the gap and fighting for our rights, because it's become blindingly clear there is an organized political/corporate/elitist group coming after them. And they aren't even trying to hide it anymore. America, Americans and their silly "rights" are just in their way.

21-Jan-21
California appears to be heading to Texas, they will soon be blue.

From: Wild Bill
22-Jan-21

Wild Bill's embedded Photo
Wild Bill's embedded Photo

From: Zbone
21-Feb-21

Zbone's Link
https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/nra-waynelapierre-newyork-texas/2021/02/17/id/1010469/

From: 8point
21-Feb-21
The money I paid for life membership is spent. How they choose to use it I don't care as long as they provide me with a voice in congress to support 2A so I can keep my guns. Don't care if they squander all but a dime if a dime is all they need to protect me.

From: Zim
21-Feb-21
Bowbender........... Helloooooo, Is there anybody home? "So instead of focusiong their energies on fighting for the 2A you want them TO focus on deer hunting, specifically archery seasons?" You are lost here, son. I think you need to go back and read this thread from the beginning and this time pay attention. It was the NRA that chose to focus their energies on deer management and crossguns. I was the one that criticized them for that! You got yourself all mixed up. You can go back and confirm all that.

From: Rick
21-Feb-21
the government will be coming full force his year for guns. they are scared after the 6th. and NRA is the only group standing up for we. so I will keep sending money. as long as they keep fighting. they took on a job when No one else wood.

From: DanaC
22-Feb-21
Bankrupt? With 4 million members sending in $30 a year?

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