Being an old Navy Corpsman (Medic) of 5 years with 2 of them with a Marine line Company, I'm no stranger to getting & giving shots (the old fashioned way 59 thru 63). I've definatley seen about every reaction you can think of.. Yes, I've had one & 2nd soon. Oh, in training I had to give myself a shot in the thigh. THAT was a day to remember. The thought is much worse than the shot..
Had it in December. I think the main goal of the pharmaceutical companies was to throw together a recipe as fast as possible to cash in. I think I’ll give it some time to work the bugs out. I’ve never been one to a buy a vehicle with a “new and improved” motor. And I’ve always smiled when I saw people complain for two years before they modified the design. If I was high risk I might feel differently.
"I think the main goal of the pharmaceutical companies was to throw together a recipe as fast as possible to cash in."
Government $$ are da best. Anyhow.... I worked with big pharma for awhile, developing assembly solutions for drug delivery systems. Time to delivery for new drugs/vaccines is typically in the 5-10 year range. This was done in under a year. My understanding (and please someone correct me if I'm wrong) is that instead of a normal "killed" virus vaccine, a genetically modified virus was used to develope the vaccine. The reason being, it's cheaper and faster. Well, in the machine/automation world there is an axiom whereby there are three outcomes available. Good, fast and cheap. Of those three, you can have two. Hence, if it's fast and cheap, guesss what it ain't.
There are has been no long term study as to the efficacy (which we have seen dropping), no long term study on side effects.... No thanks. I'll wait until it's been proven 45-50% effective like other flu vaccines and then pass on it as well.
Got the second dose on Friday. No side effects aside from a minor case of chills. A lot of my coworkers got pretty sick for a night so I guess I got lucky. Couldn’t even feel the microchip go through my pulmonary system
Since I was a kid, I've always hated needles. A few years ago some friends held a blood drive in memory of their son, who passed away and needed many blood products during his battle. I donated for him and have donated every 2-3 months since. My fear of needles has vanished.
My wife finished her 2nd round a couple weeks ago. I've enjoyed the better 5G reception for my cell phone. I'll be towards the back of the vaccination line, but you'd better believe I'll get the shot as soon as I can. I'm holding out hope that maybe we'll be allowed to go to Canada fishing late this summer with record of a vaccination.
Not doin' it, and you can't make me! Said like a 5 year old, including the foot stomp.
Won't be surprised if they start trying to force us to take it. No problem with anyone that wants one. Never had a flu shot, never needed one. Don't need this one. Like Bowbender said, not nearly enough testing.
3rd Degree they have their way of making things mandatory without forcing you to do anything. You don’t have to get the vaccine as long as you never need to fly on an airline again. Pretty soon they’ll work their way to no firearms or ammo for non vaccinated citizens. But of course that’s our choice.
The ongoing natural spread of the initial viral strain has already taken an enormous toll on the economy, not even referencing the >400,000 deaths in the US alone. No one has yet had the nerve to calculate the cost of hospitalizations and its downstream effect on your health insurance costs ( most insurers are "for profit" ). That said, an ongoing source of fresh bodies to infect also allows the virus more opportunity to mutate and therefore continue to wreak havoc and to just keep on going. It might even be possible that given enough time that mutation might start the whole cycle over again and THEN where will we be? While I appreciate the reservations posted here as to taking the vaccine at this point, I would ask that people read the reasons for doing so as PERSONAL and not factual. This IS a PUBLIC health crisis and IF YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. For those not willing to take the vaccine, please HELP to slow the spread by social distancing and mask wearing. For those who are going to take it, recognize that it is believed to not only significantly reduce getting the viral infection, reducing the risk of getting a severe response to the virus, and reduces conveying the virus to others. Please do not focus on ambiguities of one report or another as this is a process in evolution and we are learning as we go. . For those about to get vaccine dose #2, you may experience 24-48 hours of not feeling well ( lethargy and possibly arthralgias) but that represents your body REPSONDING to the immunologic challenge and is a GOOD THING and a small price to pay.
"The ongoing natural spread of the initial viral strain has already taken an enormous toll on the economy,..."
No, Government mandates did that. The virus alone would have affected the economy, but not like this. We could have skipped ruining the economy, some places did. Your take on the vaccine makes sense to me.
I have not seen 1 piece of evidence that any of the vaccines stop transmission of Covid. Everything I have read shows it only lessens the severity of the infection. That’s why the CDC will keep social distancing and mask requirements in place into 2022.
Both Maderna shots done. Slight soreness in my arm at the injection sight. My wife spent the next day in bed due to aches in her joints and weakness and nausea. Internet info indicates it’s a normal reaction in some people.
Received my 2nd dose yesterday morning. Fatigue started around 8:00 and had full blown shivers starting around 11:00 which lasted until 2:00 AM. Felt crappy all day (cold, body aches) today..starting to feel better now 2:15 PM.
Bowbender & Mule Power nailed my opinion of getting a shot. I used to get the flu shot. Every year I got the flu. Said screw it in 1993, no more flu shots. Haven't had the flu since. Knock on wood (head).
The vaccine IS a vaccine and does prevent you catching the disease, in MOST. However the variable is you and your immune system. The vaccine (as all do) "trick" your immune system into fighting and building antibodies. That both takes time and will vary in each person, just like every other vaccine.
As with all other viruses, you can be immune AND pass it along. Immunity doesn't mean it won't get into your body, it means when it does, your body knows how to kill it. While it's killing it, it may still be in your respiratory system until killed, so yes you can spread it by breathing, sneezing, talking. You can also catch it with reduced symptoms, again depending on your immune system. You aren't immune right when they stick the needle in, your body needs to do some work first. For most they will be immune, others, not so much and others their body may do nothing with it.
I felt bad about getting it since I'm not in a high risk group -- but I got it as a physician. Moderna variety in my case. I do plan on ditching the mask in 2 days, when I'll be 2 weeks out of my second shot. The likelihood of meaningful infection at that point is so ridiculously low, even in my profession, that I will move on.
One thing I'm fascinated with is that people who are concerned about vaccine safety think that's an original thought. Trust me -- the more you know about drugs and vaccines (and I've spent a lot of time learning such things) you know them as powerful weapons, not unlike firearms. Do i use them? You bet! Do I respect them? More than you'll know!
The potential adverse effects are something that is concerning, for sure, especially when you are talking about giving something to a healthy population. That's true with ALL vaccines. That's why vaccine safety is something that can't be ignored.
That said, I can't find any evidence that it is ignored. On the contrary, in the professional journals I see abundant evidence that vaccine safety is taken very seriously. I wouldn't have taken the shot if I hadn't read them and reassured myself -- so I won't go telling anyone else to just "trust me". But I remain deeply impressed with these vaccines.
1.) There is no research yet on whether the two currently available Vax's in the US stop transmission... None to say it does NOT either. No one knows for sure - hence the SMART choice of staying cautious after the shot.
2.) Some people may still get sick shortly after getting the shot, especially shot 1. There has not been time for the body to build up antibodies to gain a level of protection. Given the time from infection to symptoms, it's possible someone could be infected 4-6 days before shot 1 and still get it... and given efficacy after only 1 shot (Pfizer/moderna) is 50-60% as I recall), even during the period between shots you could get it. You could also be in the 5% of folks who dont respond as well and end up getting some degree of illness. It's not impossible, but saying a few examples of folks getting sick around or after vaccination suggest it doesnt work is not a reasonable expectation. Oh, and you are not getting full benefits of the vax until about 2-3 weeks after the second shot... Soooo... Quit a while there where you need to recognize your are not getting the full protection a given vax can give you.
3.) North of 90% of people (94-95%) who get the two available in the US dont develop any symptoms if exposed. No one can totally say that means they are not infectious (see 1 above). People who get the vaccine appear to not get seriously ill IF they fall in the 5% who may still become symptomatic if exposed. In other words - the two currently available work frigging great.
4.) Feeling icky a day or so after a vaccine is your body doing what your body naturally does. With vaccination, it does that without you potentially experiencing significant consequences from natural infection.
You likely will see little pushback ditching your mask in WY. What do you think will happen to those who choose to do the same in the liberal strongholds in the US? They will be framed as being worse than the virus itself. Heck....I am in KY and our Governor is running a close race with the most liberal Govs on virus protocol. Eventually the majority of people here will just ignore him and go on with life. I just hope that everyone understands that the left is going to frame anyone not wearing a mask as a domestic terrorist. Without openly opposing our local governments we won't be maskless for a long time.
I am ok with people not taking the vaccine, but once everyone has the opportunity to have the vaccination I'm done masking. I am not sold on their effectiveness, but I will out of respect for my neighbor wear them. There will be plenty who won't take the vaccination and will be fine without a mask and be ok with any risk from their choice, but there will be plenty of people who choose not to take the vaccination and expect everyone else to continue to social distance and wear masks just to protect them. The thought of personal responsibility to these types is taboo.
I worked in Pharma for about 14 years. It's an industry that is routinely bashed for big profits and malfeasance. The profits from any one drug can be quite high, but you need to remember that these most cover the losses from the other failures. What rarely gets reported is that most drugs take on average 10-15 years to reach approval stage from the "aha moment!" of testing something in a Petri dish. Also only 1 in 10,000 "aha's!" actually make it through approval.
So to use the car analogy that has been thrown about here, imaging if only 1 in every 10,000 designs for a new ford car or truck actually made it to the market. And those failures occur everywhere from the designers drawing CAD, initial handmade prototype vehicles, and after full manufacturing lines for that vehicle have been constructed.
No, I am not totally defending Pharma, just providing some perspective. There is no defense for companies that jack up prices randomly on a moments notice. It's also ridiculous in my opinion for things like insulin to have such huge costs as well and the science behind making it is long beyond patent life expiration.
There is a common misconception about vaccines that they PREVENT disease. That is not completely true across the board. In most cases, the goal of a vaccine is to PREVENT you from DYING from said disease. The vaccine primes your body to recognize an antigen (foreign substance) by creating circulating antibodies to activate your immune system when antibodies bind to the foreign invader.
Vaccines are not like cars that can be modulated willy nilly and tossed out into the public. Major changes to vaccines will required Ph1 - Ph3 trials which are expensive and costly. So if you are waiting for the vaccine to get "tweaked" well, you'll be waiting for a new design which will undergo new trials which will have no more experience when it gets approved by the FDA.
Lastly, for those that aren't interested in the vaccine. Have you ever been on a ventilator? I've been on one twice for cardiac surgeries. They aren't much fun. What's worse than having a tube down your throat preventing you from speaking and causing irritation when they bring you out of the coma (for me it was just sedation from surgery) is the eventual removal of the catheter. Oh yes, realize they put you in a coma when you get intubated to prevent you from ripping the tube out and taking your vocal cords out with it and give your body time to heal and shut down other major functions (digestive, urinary, etc.). So in order to keep your systems running they insert a catheter to drain your urine. Now over time, you can develop adhesions to the tubing especially for the durations that you could be looking at with COVID. The result is that should you be lucky enough to survive and get unintubaned, they'll pull the catheter out....slowly, very slowly to assure that any adhesions don't rip out your ureter with it.
Just a few things to think on. Stay safe out there.
"The vaccine primes your body to recognize an antigen (foreign substance) by creating circulating antibodies to activate your immune system when antibodies bind to the foreign invader".
This is the same thing that happens when you get Covid, but I'm willing to bet good money, you'll get more complete, and specific immune response by catching Covid, than you will by getting these vaccines.
"This is the same thing that happens when you get Covid, but I'm willing to bet good money, you'll get more complete, and specific immune response by catching Covid, than you will by getting these vaccines."
Do you have study data to support that? I've seen it supposed that the antibody response from the vaccine may last longer than getting the disease based on the rate of decline they have measured in people who had the disease. And you don't have to risk the disease to get that immunity.
One thing a lot of folks seem to overlook is that the disease we know today may not be the one we are faced with in the future. Look at the South African, UK, or Brazilian variants as mutations that have occurred over time and which have made the disease more more transmissable. One of the big benefits to acheiving herd immunity sooner than later is it reduces the disease's ability to mutate into something that is possibly more transmissable, virulent, or difficult to treat.
"One of the big benefits to acheiving herd immunity sooner than later is it reduces the disease's ability to mutate into something that is possibly more transmissable, virulent, or difficult to treat".
Ahhh, since we have the vaccine, NOW you are advocating "herd immunity"... funny how the leftist narrative has changed, lol !
So...by your logic, we should have ditched all the "Shelter in Place" mandates a year ago (for the healthy population)...and we wouldn't be in this boat right now. Sounds reasonable to me, for a disease with a 99 percent survival rate.
elkmtngear nailed it. All the Fauci fanboys & girls told us how stupid herd immunity was but now that they've allowed it MORE TIME to mutate under their tyrannical "slow the spread" lunacy, herd immunity is back in vogue. How coincidental it is happening as a new prez is seated.
"...a 100% survival rate (vaccine) with no known long-term side effects."
So you actually KNOW that everyone who takes the Chicom Flu indoctrination inoculation are going to survive and they won't have ANY long-term side effects? Please explain, NoWiser, what model of crystal ball you're using. Can we order it from Amazon?
The fear must be debilitating to let politicians make decisions for oneself to possibly gain a *possible*, <1% greater chance of survival and a *possible* decrease in long-term side effects. You are correct that speculation is worthless and this rushed vaccine's efficacy is all speculation at this point.
But the sheeple will sleep better, so there's that.
Yah, well this sheeple is 75+ and dealing with diabetes and cancer so any rude attempts at justifying why you do not just seems a bit over the edge. A good friend of mine just lost his 42-year old son to it...spouse and two pre-teens left without a dad. Have been unable to get it here and our county emergency manager just figured out last week that their portal was being hijacked by 65+ers from a nearby large city. Took them a week and some nasty calls from guys like me! Have appointments on the 16th...finally.
So the pros who say that it takes years to develop, test, and get approval for the vaccine are also saying that the one that zipped through the system in barely enough time to see what the short term affects are let alone the long ones is perfectly safe. And that’s not speculation folks.
Can you pharmaceutical folks also tell me what the vaccine means to those of us who have had the virus? Is it necessary? Will it do anything that our body hasn’t already done on it’s own from beating the bug? If one of the answers is “You only had one strain so aren’t necessarily immune to others” then I’d also ask if the instavac is protecting people from multiple strains?
My kids may receive the vaccine for covid in the future but they will not be part of any test when it is offered the first round.
I am amazed how many people disregard the unknown long term effects from this unapproved vaccine. I know 2 people that were hospitalized within 48 hours of receiving the second dose of phizer. I watched my wife’s reaction after the second dose of phizer...... no thanks. I pray I don’t get covid, but if I do I feel pretty good about the 98.7% chance I will make it.
newfi - I don't need to JUSTIFY my reasons for not getting a vaccination to you, or anyone else. I have not once told another person not to get it. My dad chose to get it and I support his decision to do so because it is HIS decision. My wife has said she won't get it and will retire rather than be forced by an employer if it comes to that - her decision and I support it. I have many friends who are getting it and many who are not. All decisions to do so are theirs to make - not mine and not yours.
The only rude people in this are you chicken littles wanting everyone to be forced to do something against their will due to your fear. Those of us who don't submit to your will are just fighting back. The harder you push, the harder we'll push back.
And since the less than 1% *possible* gain in survivability is so valuable to you, and you get the vaccine, and you are protected, why the hell do you care if I get it and die? You've ostensibly covered your ass so what I do shouldn't matter at all.
Sorry about your friend's family. Death is heartbreaking. When it is a young person it is tragic. A friend of mine's wife just died at 43 from a disease unrelated to the Chicom flu. Like MANY sick people in the last year, she had experienced a reduction in her medical services and care due to the insane, tyrannical rules that have been shoved down our throats.
Like Scrappy, I had the kung-flu in December, just in time for Christmas. Ain’t made up my mind yet whether or not to take the shots, but at this point I lean toward not. My gut tells me that next year we’ll have a new one that this vaccine won’t touch. I also don’t believe the bat was let out of the bag accidentally.
I would encourage everyone to get it. Millions of doses have been given and the safety profile is about as good as could be expected - you could give a million people a shot of water in their arm and someone's gonna croak from it.
And just death rates are not all that should be looked at - millions of people who get it and survive are having major organ damage to their lungs, hearts, livers, kidneys, and brains.
"Ahhh, since we have the vaccine, NOW you are advocating "herd immunity"... funny how the leftist narrative has changed, lol !"
You do realize that vaccination is a means of attaining herd immunity? Who am I kidding, of course you don't - because you don't seem to understand much of anything as it pertains to this whole situation.
It was mentioned in this thread somewhere by a Dr. that by getting the vaccine it will help stop the mutation of virus. Everything I have read lately stated that the vaccine doesn’t keep a person from getting the virus but just lessens the effects when you do. So if people are still getting it with the vaccine how does that lessen the chances of mutation? I don’t understand.
I also just read tonight on MSM that the CDC said that children who had the flu shot and got the virus had lessened effects than those that did not. Found that interesting.
I had it last month and it wasn’t too rough for me. I won’t be getting the shot.
Recent studies show that over 50 people in America died within a week of changing their tires this year. Take it for what it’s worth but I doubt I’ll be changing tires anytime soon until they study this more.
As pointed out correlation and causation aren’t the same thing but statistics are hard to grasp. It’s humorous to read people stating they won’t tell people to not get the shot, then continue on by ridiculing those who choose to do so lol.
400,000 deaths from covid? THAT is pure BS. They count as a "covid death" ANYONE who's died that has tested positive for covid when they died. They could have been hit by a truck or had a massive coronary.
The data is inaccurate and cooked. Take a look........
"Just an aside...deaths from people that received the vaccine, were up to 271 as of a week ago...this is all public data that can be easily researched (see link). Not sure if any other vaccines have ever had those kind of numbers. Food for thought..."
Of the ~13MM who had received the vaccine as of Feb. 1, the 271 deaths represents 0.0021%. It is telling that many of you will risk the ~1.5% death rate to avoid the 0.0021% rate that, at a maximum, could currently be attributed to the vaccine. The consistency of logic is impressive.
We also need to keep in mind that the first to be vaccinated were the elderly who are the most susceptible to both - and also the closest age class to death from other causes. It may even be that the 0.0021% doesn't differ that much from the expected death rate for that age group?
Tembry the difference is I am in control of how and where I change the tire. Vs. letting someone inject me with something that is new and un approved. I have a pretty good idea what happens when a tire blows up on you or a car falls on you but I have no clue what happens after I’m injected with a rushed vaccine for a virus that some have to be tested to even know they have. I believe the numbers are not what the experts say they are. For months people were told to stay home unless they can’t breathe. Don’t wear a mask it won’t help.... can you understand why some aren’t jumping in line ? To each there own but I don’t see enough people taking this willingly to reach herd immunity. My wife and sister both are vaccinated, my parents will be when there number is called, but I choose not to.
"It was mentioned in this thread somewhere by a Dr. that by getting the vaccine it will help stop the mutation of virus. Everything I have read lately stated that the vaccine doesn’t keep a person from getting the virus but just lessens the effects when you do. So if people are still getting it with the vaccine how does that lessen the chances of mutation?"
It hasn't been determined through clinical trial as to the degree of protection against being infected conferred by the vaccine. That doesn't mean there isn't a reduction, just that it hasn't been studied. Don't confuse that with meaning there is no benefit.
There is a small sample from Israel (way ahead of most of the world in vaccination, not peer reviewed) that show significant benefit in reducing infections:
"Maccabi Health Services, one of Israel’s four health maintenance organizations (HMOs), tracked 163,000 Israelis who had received both of the two required doses of the Pfizer vaccine; only 31 of those people tested positive for Covid-19, compared to an unvaccinated sample in which about 6,500 did."
The Pfizer vaccine is one of 2 currently available in the US.
My quip about the tires is pointing out that the tires may have not even been the cause of death. We are vaccinating our elderly and most at risk population and then floored when people in said group pass away. I’m not discrediting the fact that people can have severe reactions to vaccines. Just that the numbers in this case overwhelmingly point to the opposite.
You can’t claim Covid deaths are overinflated while at the same time believing post vaccination deaths are 100% caused by vaccination.
I believe everyone should have the right to choose whether to get the vaccine or not. I just grow tired of people who don’t have a background in medicine or statistics preaching to others and ridiculing them on a topic they aren’t even well versed to understand. Get the vaccine or don’t, I support that decision. I just have a hard time reading the non stop justification of these decisions. I’ve had covid, I’m not worried about getting it again. I’m not naive enough to claim that others shouldn’t be worried though. I’m going to get the shot as well. Cynically I think society is heading a direction that it’ll be challenging to travel without it, and the safety data doesn’t have me worried one bit about the vaccine.
Very likely air travel will require the vaccine. Our new Sec. of Transportation is exploring it at the moment. There will be people who wonder what risk an unvaccinated passenger with a mask on would pose to a plane-load of passengers who are vaccinated.
If a vaccine doesn’t prevent you from contracting a virus but just lessens the severity of symptoms and possibly keeping it from killing you... then you are still a carrier. So how can this achieve herd immunity?
It’s interesting to me that people with loads of data to support the “facts” talk about facts that contradict each other.
I don’t really need a list of data. I’ve been around the sun 56 times and I have pretty good instincts. Instincts are a fact. They ate what keeps game animals alive and also what enables me to sniff them out and kill a few each year.
So I’m with drycreek.... I had it the week of Christmas. So I’m feeling confident that I am safe for several months. And I believe there will be a new and greatly improved version next year. And I don’t want to take two versions of it.
And I also don’t believe they let the bat out of the bag by accident. Ozzy Osbourne chewed on an un refrigerated bat and he’s fine. The speech impediment is from ingesting other items. Mostly organic too.
I'm 100% pro-choice on the vaccine. Coming from a medical science education and background, I believe in vaccines when considering the totality of their effect on disease prevention across a larger population. I don't like seeing this become a pseudo-war between those who advocate for and against the vaccine. My personal thought is for you to make your (well informed) decision and I'll make mine.
I too believe that some of the things we can and can't do will possibly be affected by whether we have been vaccinated. Air travel, cross-border travel, types of employment, health insurance, admission to certain institutions....all may be linked to proof of vaccination.
I haven't yet received the vaccine. I feel younger every day as I keep being told, "You're not old enough, so stop asking." I may qualify eventually by having birthdays faster than they ship and administer vaccine.
"Get the vaccine or don’t, I support that decision. I just have a hard time reading the non stop justification of these decisions." TEmbry
Get the vaccine or don’t, I support that decision. I just have a hard time reading the non stop shaming of those that don't get it and the canceling of dissenting voices.
See how that works TEmbry? When those, whose voices are being drowned out and canceled by DC, state govt, big tech, the media, entertainers, sports figures, etc., are pushed, we will push back harder. In any way we can. I'm sorry that allowing other people to fight their own battles 'tires you'. It must be quite the burden.
I think it’s great to have options. I also think it’s awesome to see people claim things that they previously mocked others for claiming. It’s great. I also see them make claims of mutations. Totally missing reality that the vaccine may indeed force a mutation too.
It’s all argument to support their ideas. And, that’s cool. One thing that isn’t cool is how sone ideas require forcing others to conform. Or, be considered ignorant or not caring.
I got news for those folk too. I had cancer. My immune system will forever be compromised. I had Covid too. I didn’t end up on a ventilator. Or, even get sick. Just head congestion. I’m not abnormal in that. Statistics say it. That’s the norm. So, this isn’t a pandemic at this point. Not even close.
However, The rhetoric spread by some would have you believe that we are all going to die from this. I got news for you. We are all going to die. Your day and cause has already been established. So, if you feel the need to get the vaccine. Get it with everyone’s support. But, you should allow those that disagree the same in return. Without all the dramatized crap.
I got both mine, I work in ICU and have seen what covid can do, younger healthier coworkers of mine got sick and where fuct for over 2 months, these people where in their 20s, so I took my chances with the vaccine. Second shot kicked my ass a little but not enough to not go fishing!
Had the China virus twice. Both times pretty bad, about as sick as I ever want to get. Strange symptoms that came in an unpredictable sequence. First time in January 2020, last bout was December 2020. Had Covid Christmas aka no Christmas. Not sure if I will get the vaccine but I don’t want to go through that again.
No vaccine for me. I will let God decide when I live and die. Fauci is not God and Biden is a deceiver. Besides, I think I had it last February when they were impeaching Trump the first time and Fauci said we didn’t need a mask. I had a carpenter foreman come to work coughing and hacking all over the place. After about a month it had run its course thru over 100 men on my job site. I swear construction workers are some of the most resilient and toughest guys on the planet. We all just worked thru it like we would any other common cold. Since then I haven’t had so much as a sniffle.
My 81 year old mother got both of her shots. Im not sure which one. 2 of my sisters who work in long term care facilities and health care got them as well. I think it makes sense for them to get it.
I can't think of a good reason for me to get it. From what I'm hearing, its no guarantee you still can't carry and spread the virus. Also protection from the new strains apparently is minimal? I feel like I have pretty low risk from serious illness so why would I? If someone could explain to me in a calm reasonable manner why it is a good idea I would be inclined to listen. But yelling at me and telling me I just want people to die isn't going to get it done.
Read an NPR article the other day that said the pandemic was 10 times worse than we think, because the actual infection rate is 10 times higher than testing shows. Meaning tons of asymptomatic people who never got tested.
Wouldn't that actually be good news? 10 times less likely to cause death or serious illness?
Trophy Hill isn’t that the truth. I got it from a coworker.... another carpenter. They quarantined me for two weeks so I did a side job. A sidewalk for my mother. Built the forms and mixed all of the concrete by hand. Carpenters don’t have time for some virus! Lol
I’m passing on the shot - but have stated many times that if you want it - go get it. I’ve got no problem with that.
What I will have a problem with is limiting people and their travel or career because they don’t have the “vaccine”. I don’t agree with that at all. Then it’s not really a personal choice - but that seems to be the direction of the left these days - do it our way or we will ostracize and persecute you.
If the vaccine minimizes the effect of Covid - why should you care whether or not I got “vaccinated”.
trophyhill & Mule Power - same for our construction company. Everyone of them had it. They all worked through it except for 1-3 days each. Never missed a job or deadline. My wife had it and was down for about 9 or 10 days. Not sure if I had it - experienced my annual bout with bronchitis, but not as bad as years past. Mom (77 and in very poor health already) had it and was hospitalized for a week where she contracted pneumonia. In a nursing home now rehabbing. Slow progress, but progress nonetheless. Surprised she didn't succumb. Dad never had any symptoms but recently tested high for antibodies. I personally know well over a hundred people (family, church, friends, business) who have had it. Most have not been severe cases, a few were bad. No one I know has any lasting issues with the exception of my mother and she was already dealing with COPD plus other issues prior.
It isn’t about caring whether someone else gets the vaccine for a lot of people. It’s about making people do what they think is right.
If everything is as we are being told, a person deciding to not get the vaccine posses zero threat to those who do get it. That’s not enough though. It can’t be left at that. You gotta do it because it makes people feel better.
I like many here have looked death truly in the face. Down the barrel of a gun, with health, and with stupid things I’ve done but was spared. We’ve all faced it whether we know we have or not. And, should be grateful the Good Lord protected us from obvious death. As we grow older we recognize these happenings. Yet, never consider everyday things we do and the risks involved. We just assume the sun is going to rise everyday until we are tired and want no more. It isn’t going to work that way for almost everyone of us.
Yet, I see that mentality in people who insist the vaccine is the only way. My only question is where is your faith? Where is your brain? Data is telling us that mask aren’t helping. The s ientists ate telling us the vaccine isn’t going to help a lot of people. Yet, we all gotta do it.
I’m tired of being told what to do by people who could care less about me. Who act as if they are smarter then me. And, who insinuate love and compassion is their driving force behind their feelings. That’s a lie. It has to be if real world results mean anything.
I am so happy for those that want a shot, now have the ability to get one. I’m grateful for the hard work put into the whole effort. I’m just not going to put one in my body as things are now. I survived the first or second bout with ease. Might not the next. Time will tell.
Gods been good to me. And, in our talks, I’m not being urged to get it. So, no man or government is going to change that.
I've had covid as well as both moderna doses, feeling fine. I work in healthcare and it was a no-brainer for me; get it or don't get it I guess I don't care. Vaccines save lives, this is a fact, not an opinion. I don't care what your wife learned from her chiro or facebook, the science is not on the fence; it supports their use.
I'm not a big conspiracy theorist and trust the science behind it so I got it. I get that people are worried about it and would want to wait, but I had an opportunity to get mine so I did It will be a condition of employment at my hospital in the near future.
To funny “they quarantined me for 2 weeks so I went out and did a side job”.
Similarity back in August our governor of NM said I had to quarantine if I left the state and came back. Well I admit I left and scouted for elk, came home for a couple days to gather all my hunting stuff and left again.
On a side note have you heard the latest? Fauci says we must wear 3 masks and a face shield for at least another year before we achieve herd immunity. I bet he owns a company selling masks.......
You anti-vax guys are way too sensitive. I suspect 95% of people who get vaccinated couldn't possibly care less if you decide it's not for you. Grow some thicker skin. The pushback you are seeing is against bad information, it's nothing personal. Of course people are going to jump in and set things straight when arguments are made like "the vaccine will change your DNA."
No Wiser - Nice try, But you’re not even close to being accurate.
Just read some threads here. There were numerous people pro-vaccine that weren’t of the “live and let live” attitude you say 95% of them portray. It’s more like this - “You’re either part of the problem or the solution and If you don’t get vaccinated, you are part of the problem.” Doesn’t sound like they don’t care what I do. Sounds like they’ve very much got an opinion and aren’t afraid to ostracize those who don’t think like they do.
I’m on our list here but not old enough or qualifying to be in the 2nd tier, so I wait.
I as all of my immediate family had it around Christmas and I was pretty sick for 6 days where I was pretty much bed ridden and sicker than any flu I’ve ever had.
I am going to get the vaccine as soon as possible.
I would recommend that you keep the cardboard vaccination card they provide and laminate it for the upcoming time that it will be required to get on aircraft or should your employer mandate it. It’s coming as soon as there is sufficient portions of the country provided access to the vaccine.
Feels pretty stupid having to wear a cloth mask which doesn’t protect when I recently had this and cannot get it or give it to anyone.
I got the shots because I am a first responder, as well as my wife. I also had COVID last year. I don’t care if some don’t want it, I and my wife are covered, plus that third eye growing on my forehead may come in handy.
It's magic...numbers have suddenly started to drop like a stone, dropping from an all-time high...right around the time of Sleepy Joe's Inauguration! Death numbers are following almost exactly the same.
“Seasonal Flu” has hundreds of strains that they annually choose 4 to protect against that they feel are most likely to be the most prevalent here in flu season (in large part watching what’s happening currently in the Southern Hemisphere). They pick in mid summer to ramp up production. Sometimes they hit the mark, other times they don’t. Even if you catch a variation of flu not protected by the vaccine data shows the average length of sickness is a shorter duration.
Not at all relevant to the current vaccine or scenario other than both are vaccines and both are relatively low risk choices to potentially protect yourself and others.
I don’t know if I have a live and let live mentality about getting the vaccine, but I certainly don’t about the continual onslaught of misinformation. Usually from the same crowd furious with MSM about their handling of misinformation for the past few years.
Had the virus, didn't even know it accept for loss of taste and smell. Pretty much every one I know and work with has had it and only my brother inlaws father was hospitalized and he did die but at almost 90 and with allot of other conditions he was ready to go. My state has never required us to wear a mask and probably 98% of the folks I know worked this past entire year accept when the got the virus. Our schools have been open since fall. Kids are in sports, gyms are full, we don't require masks or social distancing any more. I was just at a sold out concert last week and races with full grandstands the next day, packed just like any other normal year it was nice to see and not a mask in the places. Been to benefits in town halls with hundred of folks a month ago and guess what. No super spreader stuff ever happened, in fact our state and the one beside us have the lowest covid cases and deaths in the entire country right now this week. They are saying that maybe 10X the folks had covid and were asymptomatic and were never tested. That means that this virus is even far less deadly than the 99. whatever % recovery rate suggests. They are now saying our natural immunity after having the virus will protect us for years, maybe even up to 10. I'm glad the vaccine is available as my father would probably pass away if he caught it but he'd probably pass if he caught the flu or pneumonia with his age and poor health. I just think if you want to get it go right ahead, and if you don't want it that's fine as well its a free country. Myself I feel that there is allot more behind all this than just a virus, these are troubled times we are headed in to.
I kinda hate to admit it, due to my age, but I've had shot 1 and am scheduled for #2 on Saturday. My wife got the first round as she works walk in clinic and has multiple contacts a day with Covid patients. And I was able to be close by on the last big day, and was able to grab a leftover dose that was going to be wasted if they didn't get someone in to take it.
Interesting, the vials are supposed to have 5 full doses, but most of the vials have 6 full doses, so they end up having some extra is the way I've understood it. But they have to use it quick once they've opened that vial
TEmbry- I've worked ER 14 years, urgent care 1 year, and a short stint in ICU. One season I kept track of how many of my septic patients were vaccinated, and almost all were. That kind of shoots down the garbage they preach that the vaccine reduces symptoms.
My brother and father in law currently have COVID. Brother is 46 my father in law 55. Neither one would know they had it except they lost their taste and went in for a test. My brother tested positive for the flu and COVID. What worries me about this is I think the shot will give many a false sense of security. My mother text me yesterday that she was going to come visit after she got her “get out of jail free card next week”. I asked her what that was a she said her vaccine would be at “full force”.
First shot Feb. 8, second scheduled for Mar. 8...Moderna. Folks can ignore it if they like but two people I personally know didn't make out well after contracting Covid. First was a friend and fellow elk bow hunter, age 78 and very good health. Darn near died...10 days on respirator...the doctors and nurses had him written off, but he made it. Second was my gun club president...77 and also in very good health (although I think he was a smoker) died last week.
"It's magic...numbers have suddenly started to drop like a stone, dropping from an all-time high...right around the time of Sleepy Joe's Inauguration! Death numbers are following almost exactly the same. The guy must truly have magic powers! :^D
So now you are correlating the decline following the 1/8/21 peak with Biden's inauguration and not the predicted decline following the increase in cases from Christmas and New Years (and after seeing a similar, precipitous increase and similar decline after Thanksgiving)?
I have had both of my vaccinations over a month ago without anything more than a sore spot on my arm. I do believe that choosing not to get the vaccine may negatively effect others by promoting spread among other unvaccinated and a small percentage of vaccinated persons. Every new infection is an opportunity for mutation and the more severe and longer duration of the illness increasing mutation opportunity. Mutations may then reduce immunity for vaccinated persons. I really don’t want to get in a prolonged back and forth. These are my personal beliefs and I will not advocate for forcing vaccines on anyone. I would ask everyone to read as many well designed peer reviewed studies on the subject as you can stand rather than relying on Facebook or anecdotal observations of internet contributors.
Had my first COVID-19 vaccination earlier today and I have an appointment on March 5th to receive my second dose. With that done I will now register to attend the Pope & Young Club in Reno this summer.
All I can tell you guys is that I had Covid in December, started around the 4th. and lasted for 5 weeks, worst illness I have ever had. Feel lucky to have survived it and am still working at getting my strengh and breathing back. Lost 25 lbs. which seems to be mostly muscle in my arms and legs. Drs. say that I don't qualify for the vaccine for 3-4 months due to having to much anti-bodies now. Haven't made up my mind if I will get it when I qualify.
Does anyone even look at the stuff thats in the vaccine before they lift there shirt up and take the juice into there body? There must be a lot of people that think the government is going to save them and take care of all there health needs with a vaccine shot.
"Does anyone even look at the stuff thats in the vaccine before they lift there shirt up and take the juice into there body? There must be a lot of people that think the government is going to save them and take care of all there health needs with a vaccine shot."
Do you? Which ingredient has you concerned? What is your specific basis for that concern? Why do you have such concerns when the vast majority of the medically trained don't? And what is it that you know the FDA doesn't?
Or is this just another attempt to reinforce an uninformed opinion?
"Or is this just another attempt to reinforce an uninformed opinion?"
Matt is spot on. Those spewing misinformation and paranoia, not so much. There are risks to getting the vaccine (real ones, not the ridiculous BS being thrown around on the internet) and risks to not getting the vaccine. You should get informed and make an informed decision based on the balance of each of those risks. Put another way, you can put a substance developed by scientists in a lab in your body, or get something in your body that was made from soup of dead bat in a totally uncontrolled and dirty environment. Also, for those worried about the longterm effects of the vaccine, how do they compare with the longterm effects of covid? Not many are talking about longterm effects of covid (compared to the vaccine for it), which may be a thing (or may not). Hard to come up with an informed answer to that one, but I'm confident in which one to bet on in terms of worse outcome (hint- see bat soup question above).
I was having a conversation with my wife a year ago about the covid virus and what wasn't known. I told her my biggest concern wasn't dying from the virus. My biggest concern was the potential for long-term health effects. Blood clotting disorders, pulmonary damage, myocarditis, and other very serious secondary effects have been associated with covid infections. When new viruses show up, we simply don't know what things they may cause downstream. I'm not a catastrophist with my thinking....more of a cautious realist. I still think of this virus as something akin to Audrey the plant. We may think we understand it, but it's basically a spanking-new pathogen with only 1+ year of human interaction. We really have no way of knowing the future, and whether (or not) this virus is as simple as we hope it to be.
How long did it take to develop the vaccine? How long did it take to develop other vaccines? We can use the polio vaccine as an example. What was the process? Why should I trust that this vaccine even works? Because a guy like Fauci says so? Where’s the proof that this vaccine even works long term or at all? How does the vaccine work? How does it protect you? What are the short term side effects? What are the long term side effects! Are Americans “free” to make their own decision on this? Also there shouldn’t be anyone who is not at risk standing at the front of the line. I think we all know who is at risk.
Everyone has different circumstances. I’m not high risk. No respiratory conditions or other pre existing conditions. Also I’ve already had the virus although I don’t believe it was the severe strain.
So I feel semi safe for now. I agree that in a year, or by the end of this year there will be a new and greatly improved vaccine. Maybe much sooner actually. So in my situation I think it’s ok to wait. I’m last on the list anyway and to my understanding I can’t get the vaccine for 90 days after testing positive.
I’m actually glad I had it because I intended to wait. We know so little about the virus or the vaccine. Obviously we know nothing about the long term affects of either. This article would suggest that people getting the vaccine right now will be back in line before too long. Quite possibly the back of the line.
Patience is always a good thing. Why run down the hill and jump on one of those cows when you can walk down there and have all of them said the wise old bull. I lost a very good friend this past year. I have another in the hospital on oxygen right now. So I definitely take it seriously. But I also take seriously putting things into my body. I take very little drugs whether prescription or otc. None long term.
Some people have a pill box so they can prefill each section with 10 pills a day. Some are obviously necessary but many are not. To each his own but that’s not my cup of tea.
Having had both Covid and the shots, I wear a neck gaiter when in a store and that’s it. I am a first responder and when the medical examiner had what was left of a guy who bailed into a guardrail at 80 mph sent to a hospital to get tested for Covid, we, as a department lost respect for the system and its accountability. I used a shovel to put his brains and coagulated blood into the body bag. The two nursing homes I play music for have not recorded a single flu fatality this fall and winter, it’s a miracle. It’s a virus, so tiny that you need an electron microscope to analyze it effectively. I read that 97% of those contracting Covid wore masks. I was one of them. A wonderful placebo in the long run. Definitely not the cure, immunity is.
I haven't gotten mine yet, just not my turn. I don't have a problem with anyone making a choice whether to get it or not. It is funny seeing some comments on this thread that are grabbed off the internet without knowing any science behind it. I understand the reservations about putting something foreign like that into your body, it doesn't sit well with me from that standpoint as well. Hell, some people complain about the vaccine since they don't want to put that into their bodies, but they eat like crap, smoke, and drink excessively. I wonder how the comments would be if a pandemic occurred where getting the disease had a low survival rate.
I also try to think of things differently. Just like bowhunting from the 1950's-1960's to present day, technology advances have come a long way and we have that many more years of knowledge (and scientific study with viruses and how vaccines work). So knowledge of how viruses work and how vaccines are developed have come a long way and is likely a major factor that a vaccine was developed faster and to some point approved faster.
I don't see this being required, just like no other shots are required.
But having or not having it will trigger other things: - Can you travel? Will other countries let you in? Will our country let you back in? - will events/places require it? Also will it simply make your life easier if you have it now? WY has now said if you have the shots and long enough for them to be fully functional (it's not instant), then there's no reason to wear a mask in public. Hell even CDC is saying that, but they are asking you to consider wearing one to support those who still have to (sorry, not my problem).
There's a few place, IMO, you should NOT use for info on this: - media - internet, including youtube Go to the CDC site, find someone in this field. Pick their brain, talk to your doctor. Yes there are unknowns, there always are. For my wife and I, we will get it when we can. Our son is a viral biologist and does testing including on mRNA things. He understands it (though i can't even understand his explanations), he said "Mom, Dad, just get the shots). If I can't trust my son who is educated and does this for a living, why would I trust some random internet or media person?
If you do your research, including what restrictions you may or may not have based on your vaccination status, make your decision. That's your right.
My 70-something yr old Coastie buddy finally got both of his shots at Patrick AFB. He just told me a bit ago this morning his wife finally got a shot appt at a Publix grocery store in St Augustine, FL. They live in Melbourne about 143 miles to the south. He texted me at 6-something this morning they have been logged on to the Publix site since 0500 trying to register for an appt and they finally got in. This has been going on for a couple of weeks.
How long did it take to develop the vaccine? Less than a year for the final product, but the technology and initial work in developing the vaccine(s) was in the works for a long time.
How long did it take to develop other vaccines? Much longer- science and understanding of vaccines/viruses have changed dramatically as we know more. Using polio as an example is kinda like describing how Henry Ford made a vehicle vs. how they are made now...
What was the process? The process is well documented- look it up, educate yourself.
Why should I trust that this vaccine even works? I think it's pretty clear you're not going to, not matter how well supported the vaccine and the science behind it is.
Because a guy like Fauci says so? Obviously not- he's just a spokesperson. Again, educate yourself!
Where’s the proof that this vaccine even works long term or at all? "Proof" is an interesting word. Things we have "proven" in the past sometimes turn out to be incorrect or at least not complete. There is clear support for the effectiveness of the vaccine(s). If you choose not to believe that because of paranoid ramblings you read o the internet, that's your choice.
How does the vaccine work? Again, this is well documented. Educate yourself! There are three primary mechanisms of action- look them up.
How does it protect you? See the link- it's a reasonable summary of some basic info regarding the vaccine(s).
What are the short term side effects? This is pretty well characterized at this point. Look them up.
What are the long term side effects! There's no way to know this. See my post (and Kevin Dill's post) above. This concern/question should be balanced against what the long term impact of getting covid might be (which also can't be known at this point).
Are Americans “free” to make their own decision on this? Ummm... yes.
Trophyhill - started in 03 with the original SARS virus. I was also being worked on for other conditions such as cancer. Finally in 17 there was a workable mRNA system but SARS the original and MERS (kissing cousin) were so confined that there were not big pushes to move it forward and other conditions where similar technology may work were not ready yet.
So. If you want to to know how "old" the technology is, one could very reasonably make the case that it's 15-17 years old - which is why, once research had the virus's structural make up, they could rather quickly create the part (spike protein) they wanted to use to fight this, and go to phase 1 trials.
Now, if that general history of mRNA vaccine strategies for coronavirus's feels like it doesnt apply because this one is like 8 months old or what not.
Consider that it was used on tends of thousands in testing and went very well... And has now been used in millions. One interesting point is that as the total numbers have gone up, one area people were concerned about (anaphylaxis) has actually been found to be occurring at a slightly lower rate than the clinical trials found.
So, while the Warp Speed process smoothed out the process and allowed a more rapid succession between trial phases, it didnt reduce oversight for safety/efficacy. It was a solid get vax's developed process - and it build on around a decade and a half of mRNA vaccine research focused on very similar virus's.
Others have noted this, but if "long term effects" of the vax create fear, you should discuss the actual long term side effects of even modest SARS-CoV2-2019 infection with medical providers dealing with it every day. To describe the long term risk of COVID19 as massively worse than anything the vax has even created the slightest sniff of at this point would be an understatement.
The hardest thing is that for many the illness is not a super big deal, and it's easy to see or hear a few stories like that or experience it ourselves and then assume that's reality. In reality, that thinking pattern is a logical fallacy. It's a significant illness for a LOT of folks.
The issue is not so much how the vaccine was developed, but the time frame in which it was implemented. It’s somewhat disingenuous to compare this vaccine with polio. It’s the fact that there have been ZERO long term studies to the efficacy and side effects. We are the clinical and trials. The same medical professionals that have stood behind years of testing, multiple clinical, ph1-ph3 trials are now the same ones that assure us the vaccine is safe without any of the previously mandated testing required. THAT’S the issue.
I sure as hell am not an anti-vaxxer. Kids all had their shots. But I did work with pharma in new drugs and their delivery systems and and what is required to move from each stage of clinicals to ultimate use. That hasn’t happened with these vaccines.
I'm enjoying all the red herrings being promulgated by the pro-vax crowd about how the anti-vax crowd is promulgating red herrings. Like in every polarizing issue, the extremists on either side think they will "win" by shouting louder and longer.
I'm not anti-vax. I'm anti-Chicom Flu Indoctrination Inoculation (for myself) due to: the incredibly high survival rate, the FACT that "knowledge" about the Chicom Flu changes frequently as shared by the "experts", the medical community being divided on treatment AND the dissenting voices being silenced by the powerbrokers, the powerbrokers being unified in telling us what to do and finally a complete distrust of the powerbrokers and their motives.
Half of the posters to this thread are fully accepting of being told what to do by a laundry list of entities that have proven they want you to have fewer rights, liberties and freedoms. I'm not nearly as willing as most "...to give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety..." and have little respect for those trying to force me into that mindset.
The two mask thing is to force more vaccinations. They are hoping people will get frustrated not being able to breath wearing two masks and will either stay home or get vaccinated. People cannot even see how they are being manipulated.
This one is not clear cut. Will you get C19? Most likely you will be exposed, eventually. Will it kill you? Statistically, most likely not Will you feel like you have a bad cold/flu? Possible as many have shown, heck my own dad, other than being extremely tired, felt ok and beat it in 5 days. Will it have long lasting effects? Maybe, it has for some and it's unpredictable who it hits how. So there's alot of unknown, but data/stats on how bad it will be for you and those you may infect. You get to decide how dangerous this is for you and if you are comfortable with that risk.
balance that against the vaccine. - Does it "cure" C19? Not always, but 95+% effective - Effective can range from "less severe" to "don't get it" - Long term effects? Unknown - Is it safe? Yes, at least as safe as other vaccines
Wonder of the USA, you get to pick which scenario you want.
I'll wear two masks when Prez Biden can string together two thoughts. IMO.....said it before and I'll say it again.....a mask alone is not the answer. There's been too many dedicated mask wearers who got the virus via other pathways. A mask gives a false since of security and invincibility.
Show your work GG. You're simply claiming your red herrings are better red herrings than the red herrings of those with whom you typically disagree. Most of those defending Trump for getting behind the Warp Speed program had to defend him from the likes of you for hating on him for "not doing enough" and "killing people" with his policies.
I actually didn't give two sh!ts about the warp speed program for a vaccine that will save a miniscule amount of people, relatively speaking. If we all cared about health so much, there would be a complete ban on ALL smoking, ALL alcohol, ALL processed foods with sugar, ALL vehicular traffic over (XX?) MPH, ALL face-to-face gatherings without FULL PPE.
This is one minor issue compared to the hundreds of thousands of deaths that occur from preventable causes on an annual basis - if we only asked Big Brother to control our behavior just a little more, and a little bit more, and a little bit more, etc.
So, now the cat is out of the bag on Cuomo lying through his teeth about the nursing home death toll. Equally as bad, is the MSM knowingly helped him dupe his loyal herd of gullible sheep. At this point, even if someone claimed to have accurate data, how can anyone trust it? Remember...never let a good crisis go to waste.
midwest - getting the vaccine won't make you a libtard. Agreeing with and advocating for the policies and regulations being proposed and discussed making travel, employment, patronage, benefits, etc. unavailable to those who don't get the Chicom Flu Indoctrination Inoculation makes you a libtard.
"Agreeing with and advocating for the policies and regulations being proposed and discussed making travel, employment, patronage, benefits, etc. unavailable to those who don't get the Chicom Flu Indoctrination Inoculation makes you a libtard."
Thankfully, I don't see anyone here on this thread doing that.
Praising trump for streamlining the process and willingness to take it are unrelated for many. A lot of people trust that he did what he can but a lot of people don’t trust bureaucracy of any kind. Completely understandable.
For historical context....Prez Trump dealing with this virus is similar to Prez Bush dealing with 9/11. Both events came out of nowhere and forced the govt to be creative in a rapid fashion. IMO you have to give credit to both Prez's Trump and Bush for being confronted by these tragedies on their watch and moving the country forward.
Ones own healthcare is no ones business. I dont understand people wanting to let others know they are vaccinated or not. It's no ones business. I work in healthcare. Shared decision making and informed consent is key...I would not be the first in line to get the vaccine at this time and I would fight any mandates that you "have to" have it tooth and nail. I would think twice about kids getting it and especially young women. Young people don't die from the CCP virus.
SJJ....a hypothetical of sorts that I could see becoming a possibility.
If a person chooses not to get the vaccine, then becomes infected and infects someone else that results in the death of that 2nd person.....is that 1st person who intentionally refused to get the vaccine have any legal culpability in the death of the 2nd person?
It’s becoming ever more apparent that the America I grew up in, ain’t the same one some of you grew up in.
This is not a pandemic in anyway unless you make it out to be one by speculation. But, we have to consider reality as we know it now. And, that doesn’t involve sacrifices to make other feel better by force. If this things grows to that, we can all have a civilized talk about it then. But, we ain’t even close to that.
It keeps getting said to follow the science. Well, that’s the science of it. A survival rate so high we have to speculate on the true numbers because so many people have had it and didn’t even know to test for it. That’s not a pandemic. Yet, we keep getting told to follow the science. Well, that’s what I’m doing. Speculation isn’t proven.
Anyways, I really never thought I’d see the day where it was considered that people might be Liable for failing to to take a shot for something that is currently so non lethal. Yeah boy, hire a lawyer and try to push that through civil court. See how that goes for you. I’m betting the Corona virus will become your last worry at that point.
There is already precedent in a slightly different case. You can do a Google and see folks who intentionally infected someone with the AIDS virus were held liable. I can see the family of someone who was infected with the corona virus and died as the result of another infected individual who refused to get vaccinated ending up in court.
There are already circumstances (laws) where vaccinations can be mandatory. Kids going to school is one example.
They have tried to make vaccines for the other "Cornavirus" family members including SARS, which has a 79% genome sequence identity with COVID-19, in the past. They have had the same problem with all of them, which prevented them from making it to the human trials. The problem occurred during animal testing, which was bypassed by the emergency authorization act by the FDA. After the animals were vaccinated with the 2 dose vaccines, they were allowed to naturally be infected with the virus in the wild. A large majority of the animals would have a hyper-immune response and would die. I'm not a doctor, but I will not be taking the vaccine! As stated above, they define a COVID death as anyone who dies from anything and tests positive. Pretty funny how they have known for many months that the PCR (polymerase chain reaction) tests being used cause massive false positives. Even the inventor of the test stated that the test should not be used for this. The test causes the amount of virus DNA from the sample to be exponentially increased with every "cycle". They have been completing around 35 cycles for the tests, which amplifies the amount of virus DNA so much that it causes a false positive. The test also considers any "Coronavirus" family DNA as a positive, which some common colds or flu strains, will produce. Amazing why the flu is non-existent this year, and COVID cases spiked at the same time the annual flu occurs! For what it is worth, even WHO states that the PCR tests cause upwards of 90% false positive results. If COVID deaths are considered to be a death by any cause as long as the person tests positive, and the false positives are even near 50%, then the actual morbidity rate of this Plandemic is far less than the normal flu! It always has been and always will be about the money and control. These people are sociopaths with no moral conscience and have a never ending thirst for power! Do your own research, but as I said before, NO WAY!
I am in agreement with grape. We have a place in Newfy. My fondest wish would be if we were able to get there but not allowed to return. The last time we crossed into Maine a young border agent gave us a wicked hard time and told us that he could prevent us from entering. I told him that nothing would make me happier. The little bastard let us through. I had the whole asylum thing all worked out in my head to present to the Canadian government.
And to think the anti-vax movement has been broadened beyond the most elite of California's liberal elite, the Amish, and Christian Scientists (oh, and people who put more faith in Facebook than their primary care physician).
If the vaccine ends up working well its a game changer for future vaccines and recipients can say they were part of the first successful mRNA vaccine. Around the world there are other types being used.
Too funny. “Anti-vax” speaking solely for myself, I call it.......now listen very closely for those who don’t mind losing liberty and freedom 1 piece at a time, I call it “pro-freedom”. You want to get the vax? Go for it. I love when guys try to vilify others who don’t agree with losing their personal freedoms.
Huntforever much of the information you have provided is not accurate. I have looked all over for a WHO statement reporting that PCR testing results in 90% false positives. If you have a link or reliable source I would like to see it. Amplification of PCR tests is a normal part of the testing procedure. Each test has a threshold level where the test is considered positive after a specific number of amplification cycles. Cycles are not continued after that number to create a positive result. In order for a test to be approved by the FDA it must show that it does not have cross sensitivity with 20 common respiratory illnesses including colds and other corona viruses. The tests are highly accurate and the most common reason for a false positive is failure by a lab to not strictly adhere to testing procedures. It does happen but I do not believe it is common.
Jerry - correct. The post you reference is so full of information that is not correct it's incredible.
Please do not trust social media stuff for information - I realize that's odd as I type it into a social media platform. Seriously though, the level of pseudoscience sometimes dropped out there is astonishing.
I did not realize there is still so much bad and blatantly incorrect info out there.
I have met employees of clients who later died of COVID-19. I have also met those who were quite ill and others who had the meh... nothing burger reaction. This is real but the individual response is quite variable. I wish I could get the shot but the govt. doesn't have me on the preference list even though I was an essential worker early on with a primary focus of providing health and safety or industrial hygiene consulting.
That said, the COVID-19 vaccine which is mRNA based not DNA based is new but the building blocks for it started with other SARS outbreaks. No you can't get COIVD-19 from the vaccine, its not alive, never been alive just a key for you body to know when COVID-19 comes a calling. (e.g. Knock Knock, Who's there?, COVID-19, Sorry we gave at the office... those two big white corpuscles behind you can help you off the property).
I sat in on a webinar hosted by Los Alamos lab about a month ago with a lot of other safety professionals. An interesting presentation that even in that environment there are still COVID-19 deniers and highly technical people who don't get it. One of the things mentioned was in the trials of the vaccine out of the thousands upon thousands of test subjects only 1 (one) uno, einse, ichi, I, ONE person caught COVID-19 that required any level of critical care. Thats right only ONE out of thousands upon thousands vaccinated was unprotected. Go enough for me I will get the shots.
"Too funny. “Anti-vax” speaking solely for myself, I call it.......now listen very closely for those who don’t mind losing liberty and freedom 1 piece at a time, I call it “pro-freedom”. You want to get the vax? Go for it. I love when guys try to vilify others who don’t agree with losing their personal freedoms."
Too funny indeed. The grand irony here is that the loss of liberty and freedom due to COVID restrictions is what many guys were bitching about at the onset of the pandemic. Now that there is a tool to reverse those losses, they are bitching about it for the same reason.
Also, trophy, I whole heartedly support your ability to choose whether to get the vaccine or not. I have several friends choosing to not get it and I support their choice, in large part because they offer reasonable reasons to not get it. I choose differently than them, but I couldn't support them and their choice any more than I do. However, the rationale you provide above as to why you choose to not get it is filled with misinformation and a clear lack of understanding. If you had a valid reason to not get vaccinated that was based in accurate, rational info your case to not get it would be a whole lot more defensible. In the end it's also your choice to not get informed and still make the decision for yourself. I hope that ends up being a good decision for you (and I truly mean that).
SILENCE Glunt! Listen to your government. They know what's best for you. They are always truthful and they'd NEVER lie. Dr. Fauxie even says so. They're our shepherds and we're the sheep......baaaaa........
I've had covid and unfortunately most of my family has. It wasn't bad on me but was for a few of the older members who got it. I'm not gonna take the vaccine but have several members of my family who will. Do what's best for you. My good friends dad and mom got their second shot two weeks ago and now he's in the ICU and they wanted to intubate him today but he refused. He's 80 and a tough old farmer so hopefully he can whoop it. They told him that it took the vaccine several weeks to actually start working
If the virus is passed by contact, what else BESIDES shutting down is going to slow the spread? Too many people are too bleeping stupid to do the smart thing _voluntarily_.
I mentioned 'population density' earlier. It's not coincidence that the most densely populated areas have the highest rates of infection, but people will STILL ride public transportation and gather too closely.
I used the example of Wyoming vs. 'Worcester County, Massachusetts' which is extreme, but it illustrates how unevenly population is distributed across the country. (Wyoming has 3/4 of the people of WCMa but 62 times the area.)
I think we can agree that methods that are helpful in one place don't make sense everywhere. (And I'll deal with the situation *here* tyvm.)
" And that isn’t internet misinformation folks..... "
It's 'anecdotal'. In statistical speak, it's ONE data point. Without the particulars of the case it would be useless to draw conclusions from it. As so many have pointed out above, getting the shots does not give you 'instant Teflon' protection from catching the virus. I'm getting the shots and then I'm still gonna avoid the heck out of crowds for another two months.
So what is your point, Mule? Do you think my buddy reporting his grandpa died from covid is internet misinformation? He's reported it here on this site-- must be gov made up bs, huh? As I said above, there are risks associated with getting the virus and risks associated with getting the vaccine. Because someone had problems associated with getting the vaccine (btw RMs report doesn't tell us the reason he's in the hospital- could be pneumonia/something else and unrelated, if course it might not be too) doesn't mean the vaccine is a joke/mistake/hoax. Kinda like if the numbers were inflated (which they clearly have been) the virus isn't fictitious. If NASA misrepresented one thing about the moon landing would you conclude man has never been on the moon?
Arguing from the standpoint of a conspiracy theorist makes people sound a lot like the folks who claim the holocaust never happened, we've never been on the moon, and the earth is flat. Because numbers have been inflated doesn't discount everything and make covid a conspiracy.
Get informed and educated about the risks of the virus and the vaccine. Once informed, made a decision about the balance of risks.
Colorado opened up to people over 65 on Feb 8. My wife and I got our first Pfizer shot yesterday, and scheduled for the second in 3 weeks. Only mild soreness in the arm for both of us. One step closer to getting through this.
I'm in Pennsylvania. Signed up for the Vaccine when my county first opened appointments. I am over 65 w/qualifying Medical issues. As of Friday I have 'ONLY' 35,000 people in front of me. As the County is giving 1000 + or - shots a week best case scenario is June at the earliest, but more likely August. So I'm making the assumption at that point all of these discussions will possibly be moot.
So my philosophy is to go on with my Life. Wife & I are heading to Florida for a couple of weeks to do some Fishing, enjoy the warm sunshine, & partake of the Floridian hospitality.
I’m not speaking for Mule. Only saying what is obvious to me.
His point is he had the virus. It was for him like it was/has been for roughly 90% of the people who has had it. Very mild. His point is he also knows the virus is deadly for such a small portion, way less then 1% of the people who get it, that he doesn’t prioritize getting the vaccine. He isn’t knocking you for getting it. And, he’s trying to point out that there are many unknowns. And, That the effectiveness isn’t known.
Basically, he is saying everything being stated by the same science you fellas are picking and choosing your points to further your position. The difference is, he isn’t picking and choosing his truths. He taking everything for face value and developing an approach he’s comfortable with.
That’s something not shared by a bunch on this thread. So, if it’s not you, don’t get defensive. If it is you, It’s like you can’t grasp someone not seeing it the same way. Even though there is enough SCIENCE available to suggest it’s a warrantied approach.
That’s what I read from him and everyone else sharing his position. It’s not based on fear, conspiracy theory, or anything other then results. So, Saying differently doesn’t make it so.
Scoot exact opposite. I think it’s 100% fact. We all know that there are a number of people who have gotten the flu immediately after being vaccinated. But the flu is the flu. Covid is more lethal to high risk people so that makes me nervous. Prayers to your buddy’s dad.
"Get informed and educated about the risks of the virus and the vaccine. Once informed, made a decision about the balance of risks."
So......what you're saying is we need to wait several years until long term clinicals and trials are in place? Because right now, there are NONE. We have a flu that we have known about for a year, a vaccine, substantially less than that. Mike in Ct (and he works in the field) had mentioned that he didn't think a vaccine would be available for ~2 years and that would be fast tracked. Again, there are no long term studies that show either the effectiveness nor the side effects. THAT is my issue. Period. There is NO long term information to make an informed opinion. And just because the government says this fast tracked vaccine is OK, doesn't make it so. In the not so distant past this is the same government that conducted STD studies on blacks, and LSD studies by the CIA with an untold number of deaths and destroyed lives.
How many of you when your favorite truck brand releases a brand spanking new generation, new engine, transmission, electronics, etc, say I'm gonna wait a few years till all the bugs get worked out before I drop some $$. But a new vaccine, relativley untested, lined up to get it and mock those that question the validity of how it was rushed thru.
FTR, my kids have had all their shots, my grandkids, I get tetnaus boosters when required. I don't get the flu shot. It typically is a crap shoot as to which flu hits (apparently all other flu strains are extinct) and it's typically only 40-50% effective. Plus the last two times my wife got it, she was hammered hard, laid up two weeks, with the flu. Vaccines fault? Her own body's reaction? Just a freak occurence? Who knows... Not opposed to the standard flu vaccine, just not getting it. And apparently there have been no cases or deaths attributed to the "old" flu.
I'm in Pennsylvania. Signed up for the Vaccine when my county first opened appointments. I am over 65 w/qualifying Medical issues. As of Friday I have 'ONLY' 30,000 people in front of me. As the County is giving 1000 + or - shots a week best case scenario is June at the earliest, but more likely August. So I'm making the assumption at that point all of these discussions will possibly be moot.
So my philosophy is to go on with my Life. Wife & I are heading to Florida for a couple of weeks to do some Fishing, enjoy the warm sunshine, & partake of the Floridian hospitality.
And the red herrings continue to get get tossed out by those that believe the govt, Big Tech, Big Pharma and the rest of the powerbrokers care about health or individuals.
The ONLY thing that matters is whether or not an individual, American Citizen, wants to get the vaccine or not. My agreement with your reasons isn't necessary. Your agreement for my reasons isn't necessary. If you don't advocate for my choice to be invalid, we're good. If you do, you'll be high on the list when the fecal matter hits the oscillating device - you have proven that you do not care about individual rights, freedoms and liberties as much as you care about your safety and compliance with Big Brother.
Bake - your meme is insensitive and demeaning to those for whom truth and common sense is a trigger. Shame!
Re Bowfreak - "DanaC, The problem is that the lockdowns really did nothing to slow the virus. "
I think that depends, again, on where you are, population density etc. In 'thin' areas it probably doesn't matter. If it had been pushed *harder* *sooner* in densely populated areas, who knows? It seems to be helping in other countries, although I haven't really studied it hard. (They do seem to *enforce* it harder.)
As predicted by all the mask experts the flu is way down. Due to masks and people staying away from social gatherings gs and such. But, Covid has sky rocketed due to people not wearing masks or family gatherings for the holidays. Who’d thunk it right?
One thing is for sure, we can’t win against this Covid. We can beat the flu bug though.
I’m an emergency department nurse in MI. Got both my moderna vaccines and was sick after both, although the second one was far worse. If I hadn’t been involved in healthcare there is no way I’d have gotten the vaccine as I’m young and healthy.
I ain't never needed a fire extinguisher or smoke alarm so I ain't putting those in my home and you sure can't make me. Now replace safety devices with vaccine. My buddy bragged how ne never got the flu shot and how he knows a friend of a friend that got the flu same week as the shot. Well, vaccines take time and the flu shot takes time. Anyway, my buddy got knocked on his rear by the flu in spring 2020. He was sure he had the Rona but twas not. He sort of changed his mind about his bullet-proofness and need for an extra large pouch on the front of his underwear. Survivor bias is the well-known scenario where a few people are no worse for wear by not going to the dentist or they smoke two packs a day or avoid flu shots. Back in WW11, the reporter was interviewing a squad that rotated back from the front lines and one soldier was telling how he had guys killed at his side in firefights and he was protected and going to make it home without a scratch. Call me Lucky, he said. Same squad rotated back to the lines and then back to the rear and the reporter asked about Lucky. Sniper shot to the head. I appreciate all the smokers and folks that avoid brushing their teeth and avoid seatbelts, etc and confidently declare they are just a different breed immune to what ails the weak and prissy. Why? Improves my odds for getting full Social Security payments for a bit longer.
At 61 I had a case of full blown Covid back in November, which ruined my deer season. I travel a 6 state area for my job, so do plan on getting a vaccine. However, I got two potential int'l trips planned. June to Canada, August to China. These countries could change their entry policies several times before these dates, so I'll wait until the last week or two in case either has some short time requirement for vaccine. That's my plan anyway.
Started having cold like symptoms last Thursday Feb 11th while at work, sneezing mainly at first, then coughing/stuffy head, etc... Had Friday and Saturday off and didn't feel good Friday and slept most of Saturday but thought it was just a cold coming on, so didn't have a fever and went back to work on Sunday morning but couldn't hack it and went home sick after two hours... By Monday was deathly ill so work requested me to Covid test before returning,,, I tested positive and am quarantined... I'm 61 and it may be due to my age but I had a real hard time with it,,, been a rough week... Doing a little better today, good enough to finally get on the internet...
I shifted ops to the Southern Command Center Friday/Saturday. This morning I walked into the local VA clinic to make sure my info in MI transferred to FL in the VA system. They were giving shots when I was there so it was crowded. I spoke to the lady and she confirmed my info transferred. I told her I'll take any cancellation appts and she took my cell number. Less than 10 minutes later, she called my cell and said be there at 0830 tomorrow for the 1st shot. She said someone cx'd and I just happened to be there...timing is everything. I did learn the VA Dept has their own police dept. They were there as security with a VA police vehicle. Never knew the VA had a police force.
Both moderna shots done due to the nature of of my job, 2nd was back on Feb.4. It doesn't make me immune, and If I contract it I can still pass it along. If I do catch the virus and it keeps me off a ventilator then I guess it will be worth it. Second dose put me down for a day like a lot of others.
I had Covid last November. It took my strength for a month. I got my first shot on the 17th. I was told when I got the shot that my body would probably recognize the vaccine and would likely react more quickly and strongly. I developed a bad headache that afternoon. The next day I had bad body aches, chills, some nausea and just generally felt bad. Everything but the headache went away after a few hours and slowing got better over a coupe of days.. I am getting my second shot on March 15th. I will see how that goes.
I did get the 1st Moderna shot early this morning at the VA clinic. Ten and a half hours later, the arm is a little sore and I was a little tired this afternoon, but that is it...so far. I took a little snooze and feel ok right now. Getting ready to go get some medicinal ice cream at DQ in a bit to sooth any current pain and mitigate any future pains. :-) If things don't go south tonight....it will all be good. Will report back tomorrow.
The messaging on the vaccine from Fauci has been very confusing lately. When all the "lockdowns" started it was just for a couple weeks, and to slow the spread. As the lockdowns continued our next glimmer of hope for returning to normal life was herd immunity, when enough Americans either got Covid or the vaccine. Back then he thought 65-70 percent needed to be vaccinated or already caught covid to to reach herd immunity.
The vaccines are created and start to be distributed. Within a week he is telling us we have to be worried about variants, but we always knew there would be variants. I remember him talking about it on TV. It is natural for virus to mutate as it goes through the population. Sometimes the variants may spread easier, but the mutated variants generally cause less severe illness. He also no longer speaks of the people that have had covid when talking about herd immunity. Every time I here him on TV now it is based off up to 90 percent of the population getting the vaccine(the number varies between 75-90), nothing about everyone that has caught covid.
A month or two back he said kids should be in school, teachers don't need to be vaccinated. That should be the "default posistion". The last week or so when I see him on TV he says its a very complicated subject and he doesn't have all the data yet.
A news anchor asked him if now that her parents got vaccinated, can they come visit the grandchildren. He said no that wouldn't be a good Idea. Also just because you got vaccinated, it doesn't mean you can start going out to restaurants and theaters.
In that same interview he mentioned he believed around July everyone that wanted the vaccine would be able to get it. In the end of the interview she asked when life could be normal again. He just kind of laughed. He said he still thought social distancing and masked would be required in 2022. If everyone that wants the vaccine got it why would we be wearing masks and social distancing still?
I was reading the information about vaccines on the CDC website, and this is all baffling to me. What I read there seems to contradict what he has been saying lately about how to live your life after being vaccinated. We need to get the vaccine so we don't get sick and spread the virus, but if you get the vaccine you can still get sick and spread the virus.
My wife is in health care so she got both vaccine shots over the last month. She just got sick for one day after the second shot. I'm all for getting it as soon as I can. Im not in a high risk group but have family that is. I would love for them and me to get it so we aren't worried about seeing each other.
Sorry for the long post, just really baffled after the TV interviews he has done the last week or two. Seem's as though he is saying that being vaccinated doesn't mean your life is normal again. You still have to mask up and socially distance. You can still catch virus and spread virus. If we were all vaccinated we could all still catch and spread virus then correct?
I'm not trying to stir the pot. I know there are several people with medical backgrounds that post on here. Just wondering if any of this makes sense. What he is saying on TV doesn't even seem to jive with the CDC website info about how vaccinations work.
I had the second Moderna shot on Thursday morning. No problems until after bedtime that night when I woke up with a very high fever and severe joint/muscle pain. I had violent shivering to the point when I forced myself to get up to whiz.....I couldn't even hit the toilet:) I maintained fever, pain, and severe headache through the next day and it broke last night (soaked the bed sheets with sweat). It was far worse than I ever thought it to be. I couldn't make it to the other end of the house that first night for a thermometer but I was was so hot that night that I didn't even want to touch myself with my hands. I know that sounds odd but I felt as though my skin was on fire and couldn't even turn over in bed for a few hours. I felt somewhat better regarding the fever at daybreak the next morning and was able to get up and take a Tyenol....but still was 103 when I finally found the temp gauge later. Felt rough all Friday; but nothing like that first night. I wish I could have taken my temp that night at the peak as I'm sure I've never had that degree of fever.
I feel 85% back to normal this Saturday morning. Least this creates concern over some people, I should disclose that I'm immune compromised (which lead me to the decision to take the vaccine in the first place) Maybe that lead to the reaction I had. I'm just glad I didn't get 'real' Covid.
Wife and I both had Pfizer shots yesterday. Arm was a little sore for both of us in the evening.
We live in a very rural setting and there were many unfilled appointments at the sessions offered. I don’t think where we live that even 50% will get vaccinated for one personal reason or another. I’m sure our area is a bit of an anomaly though.
Got my first yesterday and took my 87 year old mother. When I got ther at the convention center the traffic was amazing, and I thought this is going to take awhile. Moderna was the shot and we are both fine, shoulder is a little sore but that's it. I want to give a huge shout out to the Illinois Nat guard, these guys are sooooo well organized that from the time we checked in until we had the shot was like 15/20 mins tops. These men and woman deserve all the praise in the world, they are true heroes and professionals, thanks to all of you who serve!!!!
For those that have had Covid, my question is why would you then get the experimental vaccine? Wouldn't getting the actual virus be better for your immune system? I don't get that part at all....
My wife tested positive 3 days ago, she was down for a week. Slept 20 hours a day. I can't believe I didn't get it from her, she is getting back to normal now, thank goodness. Dishes were starting to pile up....
"For those that have had Covid, my question is why would you then get the experimental vaccine? Wouldn't getting the actual virus be better for your immune system? I don't get that part at all....:
Getting the vaccine amplifies the immune response for those who have recoved from the virus and may provide more durable protection. Moreover, the purpose of the vaccine is to keep people from getting a severe form of the disease or dying from it, not to keep them from getting it per se (although it seems to do that as well).
If you are doing some research on this, you might also look up the medical definition of "experimental" to avoid misusing it in the future.
My wife has been fully vaccinated, as have my mother and stepfather. I'm still just too young...for once in my adult life. I'm very happy for them, and I'm also happy to see them still take optional precautions like masks, distancing, hygiene and limiting social interactions. So I'm waiting on my number...so to speak...to be called. Congratulations to those here who have received the vaccine. Congrats to all of us who...so far...have survived.
For those that want it but are to young, check the medical category. Where I am, "obese" gets you in the door. Given the medical definition of obese, we both qualify. While we could stand to drop a few pounds, we ain't fat.
Due to my work, I am in essential worker (equal to grocery workers). But we were on call with local public health. On Wednesday we got the call they had extra vaccine. Got Moderna shot 1. Arm was sore and that was it.
Never took flu shots, rarely ever even get a cold. But after a recent diagnosis of a pulmonary condition, I'm getting the shots. First one tomorrow. COVID might not affect me much, or may kill me since it's a lung condition. I weighed the risks and made the choice.
Received round #1 of the Moderna vaccine today. It's been a couple hours and I have no symptoms or soreness at injection site. The only side effects are the sun looks brighter and the sky is bluer. Maybe.
My wife had both her shots and other than a sore arm and mild fatigue, no issues. Judging from most posts, I must be an anomaly. I got my 1st shot a week ago (Moderna) and had most of the side effects that some generally experience with the 2nd shot. Other than a mildly sore arm, I had no issues when I went to bed. When I got up for my nightly whiz, my arm was pretty darn sore when I rolled over on it, and I also had a slight headache.. Next morning I didn't feel 100%, but was still able to do my workout. By noon I had a slight fever, felt like crap, and was tired enough I took a nap, which I never do. By that evening I was feeling better, and by the next morning all that remained was a tender arm. Can't say I'm looking forward to the 2nd shot, but I'd much rather deal with that than deal with the full effects of Covid.
To all of those who are vaccinated what did it gain you? No longer need to wear a mask in public anymore? can you travel to Mexico or Canada hunting or fishing? Do you have to social distance? Can you visit loved ones in a hospital cause you got the vaccine? on and on and on you were part of one big Pharma experiment. Covid surviver 11 days of fever i will take the natural antibodies anyday over the shot.
"To all of those who are vaccinated what did it gain you? No longer need to wear a mask in public anymore? can you travel to Mexico or Canada hunting or fishing? Do you have to social distance? Can you visit loved ones in a hospital cause you got the vaccine? on and on and on you were part of one big Pharma experiment. Covid surviver 11 days of fever i will take the natural antibodies anyday over the shot."
The answers are out there if you take the opportunity to look for them.
Given all else you apparently don't know, are you aware that Trump got the vaccine in january - even though he already had COVID?Care to guess why that was?
"To all of those who are vaccinated what did it gain you?"
Antibodies....presumably at this point. I didn't get vaccinated for social benefit, or to clear a hurdle. I didn't get vaccinated so I can feel 'free' or ditch the mask. I got vaccinated simply to improve my odds of not sustaining a viral infection which just might threaten my overall health or even life. They don't give you a better warranty on life when you get the vaccine. You hope it works...think of a parachute.
My family and I come from backgrounds of education and employment in various medical sciences. We have strong beliefs in medical science and the advancements witnessed in the last several decades. I'm not advocating for that over anyone else's beliefs....just pointing out why I/we are all getting vaccinated. I personally have fairly significant risk factors. No spleen. History of severe respiratory infections. Pneumonia risk is elevated. I weigh 364 pounds.... ;-)
Sure, I could get some antibodies by getting the virus and surviving it. Very good chance that's what would've happened. I just prefer to (try to) keep the virus from storming the beach and finding it undefended. I personally prefer the option of the vaccine to hopefully head off a full-on viral invasion of my body. For the record, I think EVERYONE has the right to decide what's best for themselves. I don't judge people as right or wrong for deciding how to address the option of getting vaccinated.
"Experimental" applies to this vaccine, regardless of which way the data is spun. I hope it works out for folks...
It's going to be interesting if some people develop side effects and then find out they have NO recourse. Litigation will not be an option. If the " vaccine " is completely legit and safe, why did the Feds give the biotech companies that golden insurance umbrella??
Perhaps we need to move this line of thinking farther into society, bet rid of all the trial lawyers...Roundup claims will be the first to go. Mesothelioma?
With the way the Biden administration is handling things...how can you NOT trust it! I'm surprised at how many people will jump in without "accurate" data. I still haven't seen anything comprehensive about the mask efficiency, good or bad.
Mask don’t work. There’s plenty of data suggesting that. These Covid explosions have occurred under mask mandates.
People will say some folks aren’t wearing them. And blame those folks for the explosion of cases the last two months of the year. But, it begs to be answered why those who wore masks still got the Covid? I’d like to hear someone weigh in on it with a sincere attempt to suggest why besides my opinion.
I can’t testify to other places other then where I’ve been. But, it’s been “law” since the second week in November in mid Atlantic states. No gas, no grocery store, no commerce at all if you didn’t have a mask on. Yet, it exploded until cresting last month.
Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, etc.... will be blamed. Yet, all other viruses have decreased dramatically. Hmmm?
It’s a virus. Vaccine aside, unless you are immune to it, you are going to get it. One way or the other. Mask, no mask, etc... Unless you choose to lock away and never come out unless it dies out, or you get the vaccine, you are likely going to get it.
You can’t forget what the numbers say. 80% of those that get it, don’t even know they have it. By bowsite testimony, The vaccination seems to be causing more noticeable results for the vast majority then the virus does. Yet, we still have people calling others idiots for not getting inline for the shot. SMH.
Anyways, masks works so good, Faucci has even stated wearing two or three at the same time is better. That’s how good they work. Awesome.
Once again, sarcasm aside, I’m happy for those who have wanted one and gotten a vaccination. I hope those that haven’t, get theirs soon. And, I’ll drop out until another poster insinuates anything but his way of thinking is stupid.
Unfortunately, thinking for yourself theses days is not considered PC. If you do, you must be a racist white supremacist. Hell, I'm a veteran, and apparently that makes me a domestic terrorist as well! I guess gullibility is the only thing that keeps us alive today.
I hope they are being 100% open and honest about the testing, because there are a LOT of folks blindly depending on them, being all spun up for a year now that they WILL DIE without a vaccine.... This was just from 2016. Pfizer got hammered and settled ....what was the issue ?? Faking tests and hiding negative findings on pharmaceuticals. I've heard a few podcasts on exactly how Pzifer came up with the " 90% effective" stat, and it's a huge spin on data, IMO. It's a free country and I personally don't care who does what, but I don't want to see folks make emotional based impulse decisions , on less than transparent data, that they may regret later.
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Pfizer Inc PFE.N on Tuesday said it has reached a $486 million settlement of litigation accusing it of causing big losses for shareholders by concealing safety risks associated with its Celebrex and Bextra pain-relieving drugs.
" Believe the science" well I'm a huge believer, but on the occasion I've been around a TV, I've noticed countless commercials from law firms, regarding pharmaceuticals. What was a " scientific breakthrough " last year, is a class action suit this year... the owner of my old bow shop got on Phen-fen( sp?) to loose weight, in the 90's. Worked awesome, until it almost killed him. Use some discretion, hat's all I'm saying. Unintended consequences abound.
My wife and I Just got called down and given the first Moderna shot, second shot in 4 weeks. Probably poor timing as they are receiving the J&J single shots here in Alaska next week. Pretty much anyone over 16 is eligible now that more than half of the State’s already received the immunizations.
I lined up with the rest of the sheep today and got my first dose of Pfizer. No side effects whatsoever. I never get the flu shot and haven’t had the flu since I was a kid but at 55 I figure long term effects are negligible for me. Getting Covid may or not be worse but decided my chances are better with the vaccine. My father in law had polio as a kid and it permanently disabled him especially later in life. I’m sure he wished he would have had the polio vaccine when he was young.
Masks absolutely positively DO work. The objective is to reduce the risk of transmission of Covid. They DO NOT eliminate it. Social distancing and washing hands also reduce risk. Do all three and the risks are reduced further.
The social family gatherings over the holidays contributed to the spike in covid likely because people used precautionary measures like masks, hand washing, distancing, and other risk reduction measures (air filtration on planes) to REDUCE risk while traveling. They likely let their guard down while they were hanging out at grandma’s for a few days. Lastly, did you ever stop to think the “flu” may not be as contagious or maybe has a shorter self life outside the body than Covid? There are many many scientific reasons why the flu reduction was greater than Covid. SMH.
I think some confuse belief and anecdotal observations with scientific facts. From their perspective, the universe is revolving around them in WV. Because they see the stars, sun, and moon move across the sky they...themselves must be standing still. However, their observations do not supersede scientific fact SMH.
" Believe the science"" well I'm a huge believer, but on the occasion I've been around a TV, I've noticed countless commercials from law firms, regarding pharmaceuticals. What was a " scientific breakthrough " last year, is a class action suit this year." My wife has spent most of her adult life working in the Pharmaceutical industry, with multiple large companies, Pfizer being one of them. She works in Regulatory compliance. Her team ensures that clinical trials are being done and data collected are in compliance with the FDA Regs. They audit the trials that are being conducted all over the world. I don't know enough about the litigation you cited to be able to comment directly to it, but knowing a little bit about how the compliance end works, the complaint would have to be basically a cover up and conspiracy that would involve a great many people. I suppose it could happen but I find it very unlikely. I'm sure I don't have to remind you that the ads you are citing about law suits and pharmaceuticals have become a cottage industry. They hope for a settlement, knowing full well that it's generally cheaper than a defense. It's hard to know in a settlement whether there was validity to the complaint in the first place. For those that don't believe in getting vaccinated, I take it you were never vaccinated against Polio, Smallpox, etc? If not, you can thank all the people that did get vaccinated for you to be able to skip that with a reasonable degree of faith that you won't get those diseases. I also imagine you don't travel to places where you could contract yellow fever or any number of tropical diseases that people routinely get vaccinated for to prevent if they do travel to those areas, knowing that there is a very good chance you will be infected if you travel there? I feel it's within a persons right to not get vaccinated if they choose not to. However I also believe it's in peoples rights to exclude you from taking part in activities, programs and events because of that decision.
I hear you bb, the difference is, this " shot " is NOT a vaccine by definition. It does NOT act in the same way as previous vaccines for specific viruses. It DOESN'T provide for reduced transmission upon inoculation , for example, .......and the most important phase, animal testing was bypassed , due to the urgency for any hope of an agent, in the interest of time...please correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm hopeful it's safe and works, but my confidence in bureaucracies and deep state corporate cronyism, is not at the level of others, it seems.
This whole thing just reminds me of Ms Pelosi's passing of the ObamaCare act. " We need to pass the bill to see WHAT's IN the bill".....doesn't pass my smell test, but I've been wrong before.
The peeps here in PA in the 1A group (65 and older, or if you are a smoker) are having an extremely hard time finding a place that is scheduling to give vaccines - IF YOU ARE IN A RED COUNTY. Blue counties seem to have a lot more available vaccines. Vaccine distribution in PA is a cluster.
I had my first shot last week. I was sicker than hell for two days and pretty much felt as bad as my worst days when I had Covid in November. I have heard from many the second shot is worse for symptoms so I may not get the second shot.
"for example, .......and the most important phase, animal testing was bypassed , due to the urgency for any hope of an agent, in the interest of time...please correct me if I'm wrong." You're right that animal testing wasn't done, but they knew what they had. This type of vaccine although relatively new, has been used before so, there wasn't a need for testing in animals, that's generally something that's used if they start from scratch, discovering the compound etc. There is not as much mystery behind this vaccine as you would suppose given the fast track. I think that's where the doubt, fear and mis-understanding comes from. This was filed under an emergency request which automatically puts it into an experimental category. That means the FDA has not done the typical review for a year or more of the data. They review the data at hand for safety in the trials and efficacy. Both were good so they approve it. There is definitely a leap of faith, but for the companies that specialize in vaccines, this is not a big leap of faith, they pretty much know what they have. To that extent, all vaccines or drugs in general are a leap of faith. It's a risk/reward proposition. There are always adverse events with any drug. The question is how bad and how often. This in the trials has apparently proven to be as safe as you can make it. If you were injecting distilled water, there is always going to be someone display an adverse event that's just the way it is. For those that have or are prone to respiratory issues, especially when getting sick, this virus is no joke. You definitely don't want to get it and hope for the best.
mRNA vaccines ARE vaccines. It's not gene editing, gene engineering or some other issue the Antivax-pseudoscience-quacknation movement wants people to believe.
I was done with this thread but I got triggered, sorry.
bb (I think it was) above noted the challenge of covering a massive conspiracy up. There is literally a math based tool to estimate that, which works on the number of people involved. This is literally a tool that was researched and validated! (Grimes Model) The more people involved, the less time until "the truth" comes out. So, if you are worried that there is a massive conspiracy behind these VACCINES, no worries, given the thousands of people involved in their production and testing to this point, coupled with about 15-20 years in the pipeline (originally for the original SARS and MERS virus's as well as to deliver various cancer treatment agents) the grand conspiracy would be outed. It's not. Because there isnt one.
Then again, there is also the reality that with millions of people having been given the vaccines, safety has actually been found to be BETTER than what the already very safe clinical trial data looked like from last year... So, if a clinical trial with 20-40,000 participants didnt create enough statistical power, the ongoing data collection based evidence should help.
I guess some are so focused they can’t see past the end of their nose. That or, they are reflecting on another opportunity to defend their sons sexual choices.
Eitherway, it’s a pretty common denominator that someone at those gatherings already had Covid. And, it’s a pretty common denominator that mask mandates were prior to this gatherings. Meaning all the masks did nothing to prevent their family from getting it. Whether they wore masks at those gatherings are irrelevant. They were very likely wearing them before those holidays when the infected visited family.
The world doesn’t revolve around WV. That’s my whole point. And, unless internet information is lying, everyone is experiencing a pretty tight mandate. Including masks well before those holidays.
We can go on implying there is a reason masks have yet to stop the spread. Or, we could realize the vaccine is likely the biggest culprit in that affect.
Life is going to continue for blue collar America whether government wants it to or not. As stated before, no one questions the effectiveness of social distancing and good hygiene. And, no one is going to loose possessions to make their silly neighbor feel better because we’ve just give up and stayed home.
I’m a healthcare worker that works on a nursing home floor, so I got my vaccine. It was not mandatory, but it allows me to skip the weekly COVID test that non-vaccinated nursing home workers MUST get! So I got my anti-body test a couple weeks ago and the results show I have a HIGH level of antibodies. I must get tested(anti-bodies) again in 2 months.
If I did not work on the nursing home, I probably would not have gotten the vaccine since I am under 65, in good health, a non-smoker and no respiratory issues.
Well, I’m due to get my first shot Monday. I hem-hawed around for a month or so before I decided to go ahead with it. I’m somewhat encouraged by Rut Nut’s post about his high level of antibodies. That would be handy.......
I don't know whether they work or don't work. I assume they can't hurt. My brother in law who is a doctor made the comment that trying to stop the virus with the masks is like trying to keep mosquitos out of your house with chain link fencing.
Could be why Fauci is now suggesting 3 or 4 masks at once, trying to reduce the size to say Chicken wire?
Kevin, temps have been above freezing here for three days, no one wears shirts in this weather.
Being in Idaho, fish and game was called in help out with administering shots. Reports of people forced to run across a parking lot and getting hit by a dart gun, others lured into a culvert and getting hit with a syringe on a ten foot pole are rampant. No wonder the grizzly bears around here are so trap shy.
When I get there Wed., if I see a helicopter with a canon net on the skid, I'll turn around.
"It DOESN'T provide for reduced transmission upon inoculation "
Again, that is simply not true. The clinical trails for vaccine approval were not designed to test for that so some people who do not understand that take it to mean they do not, but data from Israel is demonstrating otherwise. Strongly.
This topic sheds light on why we are where we are as a country. Too many people willing to speak authoritatively about things that are simply not true.
"Eitherway, it’s a pretty common denominator that someone at those gatherings already had Covid. And, it’s a pretty common denominator that mask mandates were prior to this gatherings. Meaning all the masks did nothing to prevent their family from getting it. Whether they wore masks at those gatherings are irrelevant. They were very likely wearing them before those holidays when the infected visited family."
That is like saying speed is never a contributing factor in traffic deaths because we have speed limits.
I am also a licensed general contractor. I build things too. You left that one out in the three hours it took you to think of it and edit it into your post.
Matt, it’s only that way if you try to make it that way. We’ve had this discussion before. Covid wasn’t hiding in the turkey. Awaiting its chance to affect those not wearing masks. Somebody had to have it if the families enjoying the holidays are to be blamed for the increase in Covid cases. That’s about as Simple to understand as it gets.
"Matt, it’s only that way if you try to make it that way. We’ve had this discussion before. Covid wasn’t hiding in the turkey. Awaiting its chance to affect those not wearing masks. Somebody had to have it if the families enjoying the holidays are to be blamed for the increase in Covid cases. That’s about as Simple to understand as it gets."
No. Suggesting that masks do not work because there is a mask mandate and that has not stopped the spread of COVID is stupid, as it assumes that people have strictly followed said mask mandate. As much as I dislike the nut [email protected] that run around the internet citing logical fallacies as a rebuttal to arguments, that is clear an ad hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. Which is just a fancy Latin description for people who are not clever enough to be able to correctly attribute cause.
There's an old joke about an experiment on a frog. The scientist claps loudly to make the frog jump and then measures the distance. After each jump, the scientist cuts off a leg and the distance of each of the frog's successive jumps decreases. After the scientist cuts off the 4th leg and claps, the frog does not jump. The scientist concludes that cutting off the 4th leg has rendered the frog deaf.
I really don’t know what to tell you. As stated before, many times, there is no where in this part of the country you can participate in daily activities, outside your home, that masks aren’t required to enter any building or to be in any public place.
That has been the “law”. Since the first of November. For all mid Atlantic states. You either assume people aren’t following the law or, are setting on enough supplies to prevent having to interact with society in the last 5 months. That’s pretty far fetched.
I’ll also add that Logical fallacies apply to those that regurgitate mindless protocol when results suggest they may not be effective. Or, even work. But, they just keep on saying it. Like it’s fact. Because someone assumed it was the case way back.
And, It sounds like your scientist in the analogy might have the last name of Faucci. If one won’t work, wear two. Or three.
FWIW, if you’d spend an ounce of the time actually listening to people, you might could remember what’s been said about their beliefs concerning masks. Where the blame lies in their ineffectiveness. But, it’s more your style to bounce from thread to thread picking apart posts, inserting witty remarks in contrast of meaning, and smirk from the safety of your computer.
Finally. Nut sack? You had to be looking in the mirror when you typed that.
The logic is unbelievable. Your conclusion is that a communicable contagious diseases doesn’t spread any easier with mass gatherings. Simply genius. In addition, you assume all viruses are equally transmittable.
Your logic is missing a control group. How much would Covid spread without masks? There is peer reviewed data out there if you care to read. But yes, proceed with your Internet samples lmao. Again, your perceived observations supersede medical science. Arrogance defined.
What’s next? Spontaneous generation? No moon landing? Flat earth? Zeno's paradox? Eventually, the next time you target practice the arrow will never reach the target. SMH.
Before you get an untested shot get a cheap antibody test to see if you already have antibodies since many people have had covid with few symptoms or misdiagnosed as a cold or something else. I have very high antibodies according to my test so no shot for me. I think mine was 100 bux paid by medicare.
I asked a friend who is also a retired D.O. how I could really know if the vaccine worked for me. He said his best recommendation is to check my resting pulse and BP.....in exactly one year. If I have either, I can presume the vaccine did its job.
"How much would Covid spread without masks? There is peer reviewed data out there if you care to read."
So who is going to ensure that the Biden-approved mass migration of illegal aliens is all masked up as they invade our Southern border? How about Antifa, BLM rioters...are they also immune as they stampede in to loot BestBuy?
Oh wait, come to think of it, I remember reading an article where Faucci claimed COVID only spreads during joyous occasions.
Back when I was in school, our science books didn't incorporate liberal logic.
This is playing out more like a religion than a pandemic!
One more nice one for you GG, noting the pretty epic deficiencies in the approach of many: https://arxiv.org/abs/2102.04882
Not a panacea, but work. That said, and this is a broad statement NOT reflective of this thread... Just a broad observation... there is a definite love for things that do not work (HCQ, Ivermectin, etc) vs things that do (masks, distance, hygiene, dexamethasone, monoclonal antibodies, VACCINES, etc)
Yep, I’ve touched my nose and mouth about 200 times this morning alone. But, I guess all the people who argue their effectiveness hasn’t or don’t during an average day.
Liberal logic is no different then liberal policy. It has no account for common life. Only paper testimony. But, you got nutsacks running around the internet spreading it as the gospel. That’s the definition of stupid as the nutsack from California pointed out.
This is still a thread? Cabin fever must be fueling the fire.
Bottom line.... it’s your choice. The seriousness of it means nobody should be judging others for their decision. And the fact is that we don’t have the virus.... viruseS figured out and barely know shit about the vaccine. So speculate all you want we are in uncharted territory. AND we’ll be at a whole other level of the situation with the bug and the vax by the end of summer so calm down.
My wife and I got our first shot on February 18 and scheduled for the second on March 18. Have hunting trips planned for South Africa in July, and then a friend and I are hopefully heading to Greenland in September for musk ox and caribou.
Got my 1st shot this morning. Happy to get it due to a cancellation. I’m 59 1/2 but my doc got me on a list due to risk factors. I’ve been out of work for about 6 weeks with non Covid related lung issues. With my condition Covid may have been the kiss of death.
Any kids who's mom has harped on them to cover when they sneeze is about as good a source on masking as the experts like Fauci explaining droplets. How effective are mask mandates? Pro maskers seem to think it's a major deal like maybe reducing spread by 25%-50%. The CDC's new study struggles to show positive effects bigger than their margin of error in the stats. The percentage can be counted one one hand by a guy who fought with a wood chipper and lost.
"Community mitigation policies, such as state-issued mask mandates and prohibition of on-premises restaurant dining, have the potential to slow the spread of COVID-19, especially if implemented with other public health strategies"
Taken from the final lines of the study. Doesn't sound like an absolute to me...coughing/sneezing into your elbow also "has the potential" to slow the spread of Covid 19
“Mask mandates were associated with statistically significant decreases in county-level daily COVID-19 case and death growth rates within 20 days of implementation. Allowing on-premises restaurant dining was associated with increases in county-level case and death growth rates within 41–80 days after reopen- ing. State mask mandates and prohibiting on-premises dining at restaurants help limit potential exposure to SARS-CoV-2, reducing community transmission of COVID-19.”
Quote from the study.
Statistically significant means the model indicates the study is valid. 2% of 500,000 is 10,000 people that may have survived. That’s significant in my book especially if 1 of the 10,000 is someone I care about. That does not account for the additional spread by the infected 2% either. It grows exponentially with subsequent transmissions.
Thanks for the heads up. Interesting study. This study like many others prove masks do reduce the risk of transmission of Covid. Added with social distancing and hygiene the reduction can be much bigger.
With that said, I tired of Covid just like everyone else. Bring on the vaccines so we can open up the country. There is no other long term solution.
An effective vaccine is the solution to Covid. We have tied opening up the country to it, but that was a choice. The extent we shut down wasn't justified in my view and thats accepting all the numbers. There is a long list of "unneccessary" or inconvenient things we could mandate people do, or could no longer do, that would save 10,000 lives a year. We balance risk with freedom, quality of life and prosperity all the time.
Just go with your gut and don’t act “holier than thou” about it either way. For me, I originally said no way, then after watching a very close loved one die from it, and a very close 60 year friend who is a marathon bicyclist get it in late November and still fighting it after 4 trips to hospital and twice in ICU and still not out of the woods over 3 months later, I took it. Second dose tomorrow. I figured at my age (65) and being a diabetic, I’d roll the dice and go for it. The vaccine is a small risk same as getting seriously ill from the virus is a small risk, but complications from both could and will happen. If I were younger I’d have passed, but like the odds at my age.
Glunt, the use of the term "significant" is a confusing one. In research there is more tha one kind of "significant". What the study shows is that there is a "statistically significant" change in COVID death rates. What you are saying, as I understand it, is that the difference is not "clinically significant". When you get a very large sample size you have a lot of statistical power and are better able to identify smaller differences/changes. It's the interpretation of these changes that becomes more subjective.
When it comes to public policy changing an outcome like death rate related to a disease, the percentage changes indicated in this article are, in my opinion, quite meaningful. You're not going to get a 30% change for a policy like this and you have to think Bayesian to appreciate the impact of it. An almost 2% change in death rate related to COVID across millions and millions of people-- that's a big deal.
My point was that mask mandates are being pushed as if they are much more effective than they are. People are getting in fist fights over them in stores. I'm guessing they have formed a belief that masks are very effective.
I also see a huge "cost" associated with them that many don't. I believe creating the mandates by fiat is an overstep of government power and I believe that people being forced to wear masks is dehumanizing and "significantly" (more than 2%) detracts from our quality if life.
It wasn't long ago that forcing women to cover their face in public was considered outrageous by many.
Glunt, I agree. I wasn't trying to dispute you in any way. I was just trying to make sense of your interpretation of the article. I'm a researcher by training, so that's the language I speak on a daily basis. ...and for the record, I agree with you. Governmental overreach is a very real thing!
There are two sides to the masking piece of this- it's overreach vs. it's not a big deal to cover up and protect people. In the end, people's beliefs about the issue come, in large part, down to how ok they are with the government futzing with their lives. Relatedly, it is obviously a conservative vs. liberal issue (i.e., "leave me the hell alone and let me make my own decisions" vs. "take care of me").
Don't worry he lied about that for the greater good!
Just like he had to lie about what level of the population would need to be vaccinated to reach herd immunity. He had to start out saying 60 percent and work his way up to 90 percent over time. The American people weren't ready to hear 90 percent right out of the gate.
We are so lucky to have someone so high up in our government that knows which "science" we are ready to know.
Imagine what could happen if he just told the truth! :)
Got my first vaccine last week. Moderna. Might have preferred the J&J, but tired of waiting.
If masks help, and I believe they do, they would not work letting everyone decide themselves what they want to do. Because if they do work, its not because the mask you are wearing protects you. Let me repeat that: THE MASK YOU ARE WEARING DOESN'T PROTECT YOU. No one is saying that. The mask you are wearing protects other people if YOU are shedding virus.
It is certainly not scientific, but I have had 5 people in my business come down with Covid, all contracted somewhere else. We employ 30 people and we all wear masks all day and we have had ZERO transmission between coworkers. My niece went to a church get together of 9 women, and they didn't wear masks. No women were showing signs at the time of the get together or for 2 days after that. All 9 women came down with it.
As far as getting the vaccine means you don't have to wear a mask... That is now the recommendation IF you are around other people who have had the vaccine or the disease. Not if you are going out in the general population
"Per the CDC Today: No masks or social distancing required, if you have had the vaccine."
"According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), a person who is vaccinated against COVID-19 can still be infected with or “carry” the virus that causes COVID-19 while not feeling sick or having symptoms. Experts call this “asymptomatic infection.”
"Alternate interpretation, "I believe in science" vs "I feel my political beliefs provide me adequate protection against a virus."
Which science? The science that says if you're vaccinated you're good to go with no mask or social distancing or the science that says you're still a carrier and should wear a mask and distance?
From the link: "However, the trials did not measure whether a person who is vaccinated is less likely to spread the virus to someone else."
That's the issue with the accelerated rollout. No long term efficacy studies, No long term clinicals. THAT is my issue with the vaccine. And decisions are being made as though this has undergone the typical 5-10 year study with mutliple groups, long term side effects, actual efficacy of the vaccine. Is it like 90%, or more around 40-50% as with the myriad of other flu vaccines. Add on top contradictory information from the CDC and it's no wonder there is skepticism and distrust.
Massive innoculation sites with ZERO oversight. How can there be? Gonna track via ID? Massive HIPPA violations. Enrolling every Tom, DIck and Mary off the street to administer vaccines? Ya, phuc dat.
I'd like to think it's about health and safety. And not how compliant and easily controlled the masses are when faced with the biggest global crisis man has known, other than climate change.
I always find it interesting that people think you can form an opinion based on science and that opinion should be crystal clear at that point. Science is both imperfect and iterative. That said, it's a hell of a lot better source of information than what most people actually choose to use. ...and... it changes over time! What was known about COVID one year ago is very different than what is known now.
The CDC within several days has stated both that if you get the vaccine you don't need to distance or wear a mask AND you can still be a carrier and should still where a mask and distance. SMFH..... Must be that "imperfect" science. So which is it, opinion or fact that the CDC issued. Or can I form an educated opinion on contradictory statements from the government entity overseeing this shit-show.
Do what the government tells you too. They care about you.. Just like cows farting, cause global warming..I bet if you locked yourself in a garage with a couple of cows, you would die from lack of oxygen. LoL...So save the planet, no more steaks, and get the shot cause they never tell lies. :<)
"The CDC within several days has stated both that if you get the vaccine you don't need to distance or wear a mask AND you can still be a carrier and should still where a mask and distance."
Bowbender, I wasn't speaking to a "split decision" the CDC might have offered. If they are speaking out of both sides of their mouth that doesn't discount what I said. Science is, in fact, imperfect and iterative. Feel free to disagree with that if you want, but you will be wrong if you do. What the CDC did is really unrelated to what I said. The CDC decides policy and the people who decide that policy can obviously use it however they see fit. Just because they purport to use science to direct their decision making doesn't mean they won't make stupid decisions and contradict themselves (as you point out). Science is imperfect, but policy makers with political agendas are much more imperfecter! ;)
What exactly did the CDC say? I thought they said no masks if you were vaccinated and with others that were vaccinated or around children? I understand they still recommend mask if your vaccinated and around other adults that were not.
Does my grandma count as a Covid death? She didn't contract the virus, but her death was accelerated by the mental and physical toll placed on her because the assisted living facility basically locked the residents in there rooms. No one was allowed to visit for more than 6 months.
I think the lockdowns are total BS. If you compare California with some of the strictest lockdowns to Florida who was relatively open during this whole thing:
Florida: 8.975% of the population has gotten Covid with a death rate of 0.146% California: 9.098% of the population has gotten Covid with a death rate of 0.137%.
Wonder what percentage of people in California had there lives destroyed by the reaction to the virus?
They locked my grandma up to save her from Covid but really ended up killing her. But the media doesn't want to talk about that narrative.
"Per the CDC Today: No masks or social distancing required, if you have had the vaccine." "According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), a person who is vaccinated against COVID-19 can still be infected with or “carry” the virus that causes COVID-19 while not feeling sick or having symptoms. Experts call this “asymptomatic infection.”
Those comments only seem contradictory because they are either misquoted or actual quotes which have been truncated in a way that changes their meanings.
The CDC stated that people who are fully vaccinated can be maskless and not socially distanced from other vaccinated people or with unvaccinated people who are not high risk.
They then suggest wearing a mask when in public -where the vaccinated could encounter high risk people.
With the context added back in, can you share how you think those statements ate contradictory?
Scoot, I agree about the science of things ever changing. That’s what makes sone people who quote science as the gospel, look so irrational.
I have a friend who’s dad is dying. He has pneumonia in his right lung, a UTI, an infection in his heart, and an aortic valve that’s leaking. He’s been in the hospital for 8 days. The doctors called his family today and told him that he was going to die. That he was still awake and that they had better come see him while he was.
The man has been married 61 years to the same women, they raised three kids, have 4 grandkids, he’s a Korean vet, and was as tough a human God ever put on this earth. But, he’s basically died alone due to Covid restrictions. And, instead of spending the few days he had left with his loved ones, he’s spent it in a hospital surrounded by strangers. And, yes he is Covid negative.
I keep reading all this BS about saving other people. I set with my wife for 10 days, in the same house, maskless, cooking, cleaning, sleeping with her while I had Covid. She never got it. I know many others just like that.
The point I’m making is the internet is full of people that want to preach the science that Faucci preaches. Yet, make smart guy comments about other people who choose to believe what other professionals are saying. And, what they’ve experienced. As if to imply they are beneath them. They keep posting all the “science”, then make excuses for it when it changes.
It’s just stupid. This virus is going to kill more people. Not one thing I do is going to change that. Wearing a mask isn’t going to stop you from transmitting it unless you are a paraplegic with no arms or hands. Not acknowledging the fact that people infect others by touching that mask, then transmitting it that way, is the most defined example of naive and dumb as you could ever find. But, keep telling everyone about your science. That’ll change things.
I was fairly ill after my first Moderna shot last week. It was not like how bad it was in December when I had Covid, but a small representation of it for about 2 days. My PCR showed high antibodies still the week before I was called to get my 1st shot. I think that Alaska is getting a decent amount of the Johnson & Johnson single dose vaccine this week that many people canceled their appointments and to use the thawed vaccine vials they scrambled to get people in.
I am scheduled for my 2nd dose April 1st which I will do to get my Vaccination proof as I’m flying a lot and traveling across Canada and out of Country it’s going to be easier with my proof of having both had this and been vaccinated.
"Not acknowledging the fact that people infect others by touching that mask, then transmitting it that way, is the most defined example of naive and dumb as you could ever find. But, keep telling everyone about your science. That’ll change things."
People who continue with the notion that people communicate the virus through touching contaminated surfaces is one of "the most defined example of naive and dumb as you could ever find."
From the linked article: "But Goldman, a microbiologist at Rutgers New Jersey Medical School in Newark, decided to take a closer look at the evidence around fomites. What he found was that there was little to support the idea that SARS-CoV-2 passes from one person to another through contaminated surfaces. He wrote a pointed commentary for The Lancet Infectious Diseases in July, arguing that surfaces presented relatively little risk of transmitting the virus2. His conviction has only strengthened since then, and Goldman has long since abandoned the gloves."
Justin, one of these days news from mid-2020 will reach West Virginia. You just need to be patient....
Three weeks ago my daughter-in-law had covid with flu like symptoms. It was believed she "caught" it at work from a gal who was sick and came to work anyway and later tested positive covid. So now she is at home with my son and her two children for the entire four days of her sicky feeling, and none of the others in the household got sick.
As believers we could ascribe that occurance to answered prayer, however, nobody so scientifically minded would accept our evidence, and that itself is nothing new in this world of blind faith in whatever is today's announced science fad. That's just the way it is and will continue well beyond anyone's patience.
I go to the Walgreens website everyday and all they say is that nothing is available in my area for the next 3 days....and this has been going on for the past 2 weeks. So like everything else I guess I'm on my own.
Got second Moderna vaccination Monday at 3:00 p.m.that evening wasn't bad,but got the shivers that night sleeping and next day sore as a boil all body over.ran a temp of 101 all day Tuesday.slept hard last night.this morning temp normal.still feeling a little puny.glad its over.
Matt, I guess we are all just breathing it in through our masks. I mean, that makes a lot of sense doesn’t it. Proves what I’ve been sayin’ all along about mask being ineffective.
Wait. Masks work so well. That’s what you’ve been saying. Which is it? If masks work so well, the. How is it we’ve had these explosions in cases? Mask mandates have been a very real variable through this all. Maybe they don’t work well? Nah, can’t be. Because you said so.
You can’t argue from both sides. Plus, it’s hard to accept uncommon logic when the science demands logical reasoning concerning the real world results. Unless of course, your whole point is to be contradicting.
If transmission only occurs by inoculation through the eyes and vapor into the mouth, etc.... we got a lot of people touching something that has the virus the touching their eyes. Or, they spend a lot of time in someone’s face who has it.
Keep on being a wise guy. I’ve yet to post anything with as much pertinent information explaining how inept some of this research is. Yet, you hang on it like a gotcha point. SMH.
I am now eligible and on the list in my county, waiting for their notification.
Interestingly, 10 days after donating blood I received notification that they test all donations for SARS/COVID antibodies. My results were negative but they cannot guarantee the accuracy of the test.
I know many believe the lockdowns are about control. I am willing to bet if politicians refused lockdowns they would have been accused of trying to control the population by allowing people to die, Bill Gates would be accused no doubt and Cuomo would be given credit for keeping Social Security solvent.
Justin, I was in Carrollton, MO this weekend. I was in the tiny minority wearing a mask in Orschelan’s even though a sign on the door said facial covering was required. I bet that is not the only place not abiding by the mandate, but hey I don’t want to mess with your logic.
Frank, keep wearing it and get the Vax when you get a chance. Good to hear the Misses has had it. Absolute worst case scenario about wearing the mask, you get a funny tan. Best case scenario you are a some to a solid bit safer - as are those around you.
Given essentially zero risk to you, and potentially solid gains to you and the community around you, it's worth it.
I Copied this from a friends post somewhere else and it is a guy 40 years old and in primo shape when he got this crap, I’m 10 years older and don’t hit the gym 4 days a week but was running around 20 to 25 miles a week up until I went hunting on Kodiak for 12 days... this is pretty well articulated and I can attest to having a similar experience myself-
Covid-19 update. I don't understand everyone being so secretive about covid so I'm opening up about my experience. I'm guilty in thinking this was merely an over reaction to a new cold virus. I was one of those skeptics and guys who thought I would not get sick or be asymptomatic. That was until I got Covid-19. It has absolutely whipped my ass! I'm a very active, don't slow down healthy 40 year old guy. I go to gym at least 4 days a week and stay active on the the weekends. This virus has completely humbled me and scared me at times. I've experienced every symptom under the sun and a few that aren't even listed. It's such a yo-yo virus. One day your fine, next day you feel like your dying. It effects everyone different. I've been in close contact with 3 of my closest friends who are also positive (surely contracted from me at hunting camp) and it has just beat them up. There is no real time line on feeling better, there are some lasting effects including heart and lung damage that just scares me. I write this now completely dizzy and exhausted, Its my tenth day since symptoms started.
It's scary how contagious it is. Just my inner circle and families of those I have been with have been so effected by this. Imagine your child cannot go to school, play sports, trick or treat, or see friends or family for 14 days because they are living in a house with positive cases. It's a huge burden on family. I've been in the same house as wife and daughter and I've not seen them for more than 5 minutes in 10 days. Autumn has to wait on me as I cannot leave the room. She is basically a prisoner because I'm sick. The ripple effect is unbelievable. In the time your in quarantine you left thinking about your contact with others. Who you may have infected, your lack of diligence in reducing virus spread and how it has effected the lives of co-workers, friends, family. That's a burden on me, thats something often not mentioned with this virus. It not only effects you but so many others. I'm a new believer in masks, it can slow spread and for that I will advocate for the use of them. I don't wish this on anyone. If there is anything you can do to keep yourself healthy and safe and prevent lasting effects on friends and family I encourage you to do so.
I'm blessed to have an amazing wife to help me through this. So grateful her work is understanding with her absence. Thankful to her coworkers who have to fill in for her. Not everyone has that. I am beyond thankful I work with an amazing crew of guys who pick up my slack and will do anything possible to ensure we continue to serve our customers in the basin. I couldn't imagine what our business would be like without them. It's unbelievable to see them rise up amid so much chaos. I have supportive friends and family who's well wishes and support make it easier. Not everyone is as lucky. I simply ask you be considerate of others. This virus will not be exclusive to you with it's impacts. We have to start thinking more about our community, our friends, and out families.
Justin, the establishment has the right to ask customers to comply, I have the right to go elsewhere if I don’t agree.
Good advice I received since a very young man...don’t go looking for trouble and you probably won’t find any, but if it comes, be ready. I have tried to adhere to that.
A really big burly guy in front of me wearing a red MAGA hat had no mask. He gave me that look of disdain.
I asked the cashier why no one had a mask on, could I take mine off. She replied they could not force people to wear one. I laughed and said I wouldn’t try and force the customer before me to wear one and that he probably thought I was a wimp. She replied she thought real men complied with the restriction, I told her how smart she was;-)
He was a big man, but there were three of us...myself, Smith, and Wesson. LOL.
Justin, noted that you've yet to post any pertinent information on the topic.
The solution to this grand mystery is actually pretty simple. 1.) Masks are meant to contain respiratory droplets that the wearer would otherwise expel into the environment which could be inhaled by or contact the mucous membranes of others, and not to protect the wearer from droplets expelled by others. You seem like an observant fellow, so you've no doubt notes that, when a person wears a mask, the mask is closer to their mouth than the mouths of the people standing 6 feet away. This is key, as the mask contains many more droplets expelled by the person wearing it than it is protecting the wearer from droplets expelled by people who are standing 6 feet away - who are presumably also wearing a mask. This is why virologists have determined there is very little risk of spread through touching contaminated surfaces, as the viral load one can be exposed to is generally not enough to result in disease. 2.) Masks only work when worn. As to the conundrum of why we have seen surges in the disease despite mask mandates (or, from your perspective, why masks worked, and then they didn't, and then they did again), it is a simple study in human behaviour. People do not all follow the rules. I would imagine this is especially true of those who don't believe masks work. The fall surge correlated very highly with winter weather which forced people in doors and with the holidays during which many people travelled to see family despite recommendations to the contrary by health experts. Then...masks miraculously started working again once people stopped travelling to see family after the holidays.
The overriding principle of mask usage is that it is done to minimize or prevent pathogen spread from the wearer toward others. This has been known in medicine for longer than most of us have been alive. Yes...a mask does offer some protection to the wearer against pathogens, but that's a secondary benefit unless the mask amounts to a filter respirator. It's honestly too easy for people (including me) to think a simple mask on my face confers safety and protection for me. No mask stops 100% of viruses borne on vapor, micro-droplets and ejected by coughing or sneezing. Masks are an aid to slowing down airborne transmission of disease-causing pathogens, and it stops there.
I've personally never looked at any of these measures (masks, hand-washing, distancing, and the vaccine) as anything more than fractional help...a slice of the pie in each. But put all of them together and used every day, the individual odds of escaping serious disease are improved. That's all. Not guaranteed. I still think people have the right to decide how they feel about this. I really wish our health practices weren't being politicized either way, as it tends to exacerbate misinformation generated to support a political leaning. Again...that unfortunately goes both ways. Most of us just want to be healthy, protect our loved ones, and compromise our lives to the least extent possible.
Nope. Passing on the vaccine. Passing on Masks as much as possible,, but when I do wear one, it is one that says either.. "This mask is as useless as my Governor ", I live in NY, or the one that says, "I am more worried about losing my Constitutional rights that catching COVID 19". I figure that if I am in a place that mandates that I have to wear one, I'm going to make a statement..... Take vitamin C, D and Zinc and you will be okay.
Except that in good trials none of those vitamins do anything to protect you from COVID or other virus's - unless you were solidly deficient in the first place. Then again, expensive urine has value to the world too.
In 3...2...1... we get the avalanche of Vit D "cures" covid and this is all a scam to get Biden elected and make money for big pharma and 3M so they can make tons of masks!
Sorry, I try to avoid sarcasm, but I'm getting grumpy in my "old" age...
Actually there are numerous studies showing that vit D and zinc help prevent COVID and the severity of symptoms if COVID is contracted... sorta funny,, Habitat laughs about Vit C preventing cancer.... LOL.. I had cancer stage 3C lung. I was given 6 months back in 08/08/08. I was told by the surgeon at Sloan Kettering as well as a Complimentary and Alternative Medicine Doctor to take lots of Vit C to help fight the cancer. Not to go into all the details, but i did,, and it did.. Political ideology has nothing to do with it. I still do the vitamins and I haven't been sick in years. So that is all. Do what you want..... My opinion for what it's worth.
New study out based on the mass-vaccination done in Israel:
Pfizer/Moderna vaccines provide 97% protection against hospitalization and death and 94% protection against getting the virus at all.
Translation: We could get rid of this thing if everyone gets vaccinated.
At this point, personally, I consider it an act of patriotism and love of thy neighbor to get the vaccine. It's a shame that political ideology is using patriotism erroneously to cause the inverse and hurt us all.
I'm not saying that everyone shouldn't have a choice, but this country has a history of pulling together and sacrificing for the good of the nation and the good of the world.
I take multis and vitamin C daily for over 40 years. So did a friend that died from pancreatic cancer. Is my sample accurate or is yours?
Answers: diseases are more complex than simple answers and I will place more faith in folks that dedicated a lifetime to studying them than some narcissistic blow hard, whom I voted for both times Glunt. Maybe some day both sides will get past the binary thinking...Orange Man bad/god.
I must admit I'm going to get vaccinated for mostly selfish reasons. I want to keep my job, I want the company I work for to continue to grow and succeed, and I want all the good employees they had to lay off back to work.
Just a few years ago I would have bet a significant sum that in my lifetime we would never have another president that I disagreed with more on policy than Carter or Obama. I would have lost big time, and still am wondering how this disintegrated so quickly!
If these shots don't get the economy back on track at least somewhat, we are in for a very tough road ahead IMHO.
I didn’t realize the vaccine also cured stupidity? We didn’t get here because of Covid we are exactly where inept politicians put us . Do they have a vaccine for inflation? How about $300 trillion in unfunded liabilities?
^^^^^^ WV, I took zinc (4 lozenges a day) from the day I started feeling poorly until I felt ok again, a total of about a week. I can’t help but think it helped me. I’m 74 tomorrow, overweight, have afib, diabetic, etc. , in other words the poster boy for hospitalization with covid. I had one real tough 24 hour period and got progressively better each day after that. Three days of low grade fever, no breathing problems. I was already taking vitamins C and D. I can’t prove any of it helped, (just like they can’t prove masks help), but I think so.
I need to read the Israel study. 94% chance of not getting the virus sounds good but more than 90% in the US haven't gotten Covid since we started tracking it a year ago (likely less than 90% since some had it and didn't know). Does it mean 94% of people who for sure had eye or respiratory exposure to the virus didn't contract Covid?
This is a study based on Israelis in Israel, not the USA.
And no, you can't use humans as test subjects and intentionally expose them, so you can't run that kind of a study. You can only test people who've gotten the vaccine for active infection and compare it with people who haven't had the vaccine - just as they compare people who've had the vaccine and get hospitalized and/or die vs those who haven't.
The numbers are still remarkable. And no swamp creature US politician boogeymen to blame for the numbers for the conspiracy folks.
Thanks. I read a bit and understand it better. Basically 94% reduction compared to the unvaccinated group. I think there are cases where humans are intentionally exposed to disease-causing virus for legitimate testing.
Glunt, much valuable research could come from those methods, but it's not done in this country anymore and hasn't for decades. Purposely infecting a human has been considered absolutely unethical since at least the 60s and the case of the study of black men being intentionally allowed to go untreated for syphilis several generations ago in order to study the long-term affects and timeline of said disease is still held out as the Holy Grail of what not to do when doing a study and is rehashed so as to keep that scab from ever healing - and is also hailed as a big part of the reason that black people as a group are more hesitant to get the COVID vaccine.
The study Ike is referring to is commonly called the Tuskegee Syphilis study. Sad deal and hugely influenced how researchers were allowed to deal with human research participants moving forward. Also heavily influenced how research that followed was monitored and how oversight of research was handled. It's one of several studies that have left a black eye on medical research in our country. As Ike points out, one reason why some groups of people view medical research, and even the medical field, with great skepticism.
The wife and I were unable to get the vaccine here in our own county but she was able to schedule both in a neighbor county. I had a sore arm each injection site but the boss had a rough day after the second injection and suffered fever and nasty 'muscle' pain. The second was last Tuesday. We are strong believers that; in the end, only a mass vaccinated population worldwide will bring an end to this. Has anyone researched the supposed 'pill' recently announced that was reported to possibly be effective alone the lines as Tamiflu is?
There are studies with maybe a weak indication for early disease regarding Vit D and Covid. MAYBE. There are interesting trials starting to be done on it (VIVID comes to mind for those of nerdy persuasion)... and there are a few interesting RCT being done beyond that. There have been a few huge studies like one by Patchen, Clark, Hancock, Gaddis and Cassano looking at 1.5 MILLION folks looking at genetically predicted serum D... with that big a sample you would think some interesting data would percolate out: "These findings suggest that genetically predicted differences in long term Vitamin D nutritional status do not causally affect susceptibility and severity of COVID-19 infection, and that associations found in previous studies may have been driven by confounding."
From what I've seen, at this point, it's hard to say more than "maybe" for Vit D saving the day with C-19...
Now, it's Vit D and many people living in the north are low, so... what the heck. I do not see evidence showing high functionality in stopping covid. it seems to fall into early HCQ issues where the research is to murky and as better research is done any potential benefit melts away. But there may be other reasons to take D (you live in the north for example) so go for it.
Those of you getting the shot - good on you! Well done!
According to Faucci, there is a significant correlation in vitamin d levels and the rate at which infections occur. Along with a bunch of other practicing doctors. As well as study conducted from all areas of the country with 190,000 people. Vitamin D is quit possibly the best defense against contracting it. Vaccine aside.
Like I said before, somebody believes it works. Even if the bowsite promaskers don’t.
Well, Vitamin D correlates with improved outcomes, but let's not get carried away. The thing is ... it's difficult to separate "Vitamin D" from "Good health". Really difficult. It's easy to look at observational studies and see correlations and those ARE useful -- for generating hypotheses. Be in good health, and get a vaccine ... these are not mutually exclusive.
Even if the death toll is grossly overestimated, hundreds of thousands of people have died from this. And in addition to all the deaths, there are many many people with serious and lasting effects from the disease. I know personally quite a few people that are dealing with effects months after “getting over” the virus.
With millions and millions of doses of the vaccine already given, it is pretty credible that the chances of serious side effects are very low
Not trying to convince the non vaccers to get one. You have made up your mind. But for those sitting on the fence, the predominance of science says you are safer with the vaccine than the disease.
I am also tired of getting up each day with a little fear that today might be the day I get it. I want to feel a semblance of normal again and for me that means getting the vaccine. I would rather take a known extremely low chance with the vaccine vs the Russian roulette of the virus.
It’s all about mitigation. Each thing you do isn’t going to absolutely prevent you from getting covid. Each thing you do...including vaccination...is designed to hopefully further reduce your risk. Mask, distance, hand hygiene, and vaccination....all a piece of the prevention pie. Do it all and you probably have the lowest risk of sickness possible.
And as I always say...everyone has the right to decide for themselves. For myself, I’m doing everything possible. And actually I’m doing it for my family.
Then the 1.8% fatality rate is significantly lower. Right?
"I want to feel a semblance of normal again..."
Sorry, this IS the new normal. The government keeps moving the goal of when a sense of normalacy will return. Remember, once given, a government will never freely return control to its serfs. Look at how we allowed governors to destroy state economys with their heavy handed and punitive EO's.
"I would rather take a known extremely low chance with the vaccine vs the Russian roulette of the virus."
Yeah.....about Russian roulette. See above. You think Russian roulette is a virus that has a ~99% survival rate.
People don’t like to make decisions that differ from the herd. They get cowed into following because they crave approval and companionship and safety from like minded. If you are not obese , diseased and under 65 you really have nothing to worry about.
Then explain all the less than 30 year olds and kids. Please.
But here’s a fact.
mRNA – Also known as messenger ribonucleic acid, mRNA is the only active ingredient in the vaccine. The mRNA molecules contain the genetic material that provide instructions for our body on how to make a viral protein that triggers an immune response within our bodies. The immune response is what causes our bodies to make the antibodies needed to protect us from getting infected if exposed to the coronavirus.
We received our first doses Wednesday morning, second one is set for 4/8.
Those of you who've had difficulty finding an appointment might try Walmart's GoodRx website. The Walmart pharmacies are linked to the federal (and not being administered by State or County Health departments). They had a ton of appointments available here in TN as well as TX and IL. Give it a try, its worked for several of our friends.
the explanation is in the link. Read it. Here’s another https://www.heritage.org/data-visualizations/public-health/covid-19-deaths-by-age/
3710 out of 500k people under 30 have died from Covid so far . You can bet that a high percentage of them had underlying health conditions and or obesity. 80% of all deaths the people were obese. This whole killing of the economy could have been easily avoided by locking down the elderly and people with obesity and people obesity related health conditions.
“That's all we ever hear. Never, "get some exercise, quit eating shit, lose the fat, get outside, improve your immune system."
That would be downright un-American to do all those things. And yeah....the medical community has been preaching this for decades without success. Probably 1/3 of the health care professionals in the U.S. don’t eat right and could lose some weight.
"That would be downright un-American to do all those things. And yeah....the medical community has been preaching this for decades without success. Probably 1/3 of the health care professionals in the U.S. don’t eat right and could lose some weight."
Agreed.....and I bet it's much higher than 1/3. Except Idylwild. He needs to eat a few more cheeseburgers. :-)
Tx, It doesn’t matter if nature dealt you the hand or your decisions did. Facts are not discriminatory. The 80% of deaths of the obese 100% of them did that to themselves, my guess is that covers a lot of the diabetes and heart disease too. Some people were dealt a bad hand but it doesn’t change the facts. If you have any of those conditions you should probably stay out of public it shouldn't be the public’s responsibility to stay away from you.
I’m 63 also. I had Covid , it was a runny nose for two days. Work out 7 days a week since I was 15. Zero prescriptions next to zero alcohol and sugar.
Good for you Jack, but this is a free country and people get to live their lives how they want, not how some narrow minded wanna be dictator decides. You obviously have trouble understanding our Rights, there are no qualifiers like the ones you want to place on them.
So to slow the spread because there are residual and possibly serious long term health challenges for some who do survive. Buy time, gain knowledge as to learn what works best, really not too complicated if you have any compassion and can quit trying to play tough guy long enough to think about it.
Lets be sure to save some compassion for those who lost jobs and businesses as well due to mandated social distancing. Throw in those kids who haven't done well with school and activities being cancelled and those folks who died alone without family allowed to be there.
Habitat , you just said it was a free country and people get to live how they want? Now you are saying I have to live how you want me to live. Get your story straight. In my free country I don't blame people for their mistakes, but I do ask that they pay for them.
Jack, Nice try making facts up, I never said you have to live any specific way. I answered your question, that’s it.
Glunt, I agree, compassion for all, that’s what makes the human race special, and real tough guys know that.
I am just tired of the ‘here’s how it is’ crap when there is still much to learn about this health challenge. Tired of the binary choice of we agree on everything or you are my enemy. And tired of keyboard tough guys, most are just blowhards.
I have lived an almost normal existence through this. I am pushing my college to allow those of us who want to be back in the classroom, students and faculty, to do so. I have continued to go to stores and restaurants as much as I felt I wanted to. Being married to a dental hygienist, I have long practiced good hygiene. I wear glasses, the masks are a real pain with fog. I wear them to respect others, but when not required I keep my distance and do not wear one. I exercise daily, and take vitamins and silver biotics. I am outdoors working on habitat several times a week, a very active guy.
Just get tired of punk a$$es who think they are someone special. Reminds me of the blowhards in USMC OCS who showed up on the first day and told everyone how bad they were. They were some of the first to DOR. On any given day there is always someone badder and tougher, and the loudest mouth in mocking others is typically the most insecure. And Jack, in case I am not being direct enough I meant you. The guy at Orschelan’s, he broke eye contact first bud and you know what I am saying.
I sometimes wonder what the narrative would be if this pandemic primarily took the lives of children under age 15 and possibly having a predisposing condition. Would we value their lives more ..... or would we be as quick to write off their loss as we are the older population?
“Just get tired of punk a$$es who think they are someone special. Reminds me of the blowhards in USMC OCS who showed up on the first day and told everyone how bad they were. “
You mean like people that imagine a big mean MAGA man staring them down in the restaurant and someone telling everyone it was him ,me and my buddy Smith and Wesson, That kind of fake tough guy?
Kevin, how is pointing to the death statics writing off the older population? How is suggesting that the people most vulnerable be the ones that take precautions instead of those who are not at risk a bad idea?
Matt, if we are going to mange by corner cases then people have died from the vaccine , pretending that the cure is binary is idiocy.
Not just hand wringing...I would love to know how many are getting vaccinated, or have already, that used to claim this was all an international hoax to get rid of trump. I see one who was in that group is now getting the shot. I guess add hypocrisy or they have seen the light?
OTH, thanks to you guys that did admit to getting the shot and helping to convince others to do so. Kudos to the OP.
Gee, Frank, don't you know that Covid is no worse than the common cold? After all, it only affects fat and unhealthy people. For everyone else it's just a "runny nose for a few days." Jack and Justin said so, after all.
Those tossing g out the term obese. I would be 75% of people here are obese, if you go by the medical definition. If your weight starts with a 2 and you are under 6 foot 3, you are probably obese. I am and I. A spinning instructor, and do hiit workouts and lift and hike. NOT fat by any means, but being says obese
The deaths of old people and those with unhealthy lifestyles are often described pragmatically. “Oh well”.....The web is full of inferences that the obese and elderly should bear the brunt of precautions to avoid COVID due to their greater risk. The overwhelming recommendations from the entirety of medical science are that the most effective ways to beat down the viral incidence is for all of us to engage in the measures they primarily recommend. You best protect the weak and vulnerable by engaging the majority in the war against an enemy....not each other. That’s basically an American tradition by the way.
Wow! I just surprised myself by reading through this entire thread! After 40 yrs in healthcare and specifically infectious diseases, I have only one thing to add. The way out of this very contagious viral mess is and always has been by vaccination. Otherwise it will continue to percolate through human populations at a high enough level to disrupt normal human activities including world economies. It has already put our relatively prosperous country much deeper into debt and altered many industries maybe forever. All of us (no matter from what stripe) will be affected by what happens here. The immunity derived by recovering from COVID is great but not necessarily better than through vaccination. Getting vaccinated after one’s recovery from COVID can actually build an even better immunological response as the quality of subsequent antibodies improves, as does your potential longevity of protection via memory T cells. Given the variety of vaccine platforms which have now emerged out of the past year’s research, it’s going to be confusing initially to sort them out. However, from what we have, the few that have cleared FDA to date should provide the safest choices. There’s no magic about it. No other similar agency in the world is as rigorous in its approval process. Yes, the mRNA platform is new for these two vaccines but is not really new. DNA and RNA vaccines have been in the works for at least 18-20 yrs, so most if the safety issues have been already worked out. Millions have been vaccinated and serves as an unprecedented amount of real world clinical data to further consider their safety. Eventually one of more of the various vaccines should emerge as the preferred platform based on massive amounts of post vaccination data. Improvements should come as more information is gathered and as new variants emerge. An amazing and unique thing about the new mRNA platform is the ability to quickly develop a booster vaccine to cover any new variant challenge within ~40 days! We will probably be living with this new coronavirus for the rest out lifetimes so it’s important that we get it knocked down to manageable levels as soon as possible. It’s apparent to anyone who deals with these issues from the lifetime’s perspective of professional practice and study that the only way to get there is to vaccinate as many “susceptible hosts” as possible. We owe it to our families and future generations to keep our society and culture sound and solvent. So, PLEASE just get your F’’’king shot already! PS: wife and I have been fully vaccinated w/ Pfizer’s, and hoping most of you realize it’s the most expedient way out of this awful mess.
Kevin, The case mortality rates in countries are very similar regardless of measures taken to mitigate. I believe Peru , UK and Italy had some of the strictest lockdowns but some of the higher case mortality rates. The outliers typically have older populations or obesity issues. My mom is 82 and my aunt is 81 and did not leave their homes or allow anyone in for an entire year. It’s been a real challenge but it was the right thing to do.
Grey Ghost I’ll do that if you go explain to my cousin who has a 20 year old son who is a complete invalid due to vaccine reaction as a 1 year old. Nothing I have said has anything to do with tough. Where I come from tough don’t talk they do.
Jack, what does your cousin's son's extremely rare reaction to an unnamed vaccine have to do with the severity of Covid and efficacy of the Covid vaccines?
Look, consider yourself lucky that you had mild Covid symptoms. Millions of people weren't/aren't so lucky. Your notion that only the highest risk people should be the ones to sacrifice for the overall safety of our society would be laughable, if it wasn't so pathetic.
BTW, did you ever consider the fact that you contracted Covid may mean you aren't as bullet-proof as you think?
“Your notion that only the highest risk people should be the ones to sacrifice for the overall safety of our society would be laughable, if it wasn't so pathetic.”
You miss the point , they sacrifice for their own safety, no one else’s. For People in the low risk group the high risk group isn’t a threat they are not protecting anyone but themselves. It’s the flu for the low risk . All these measures have done years of damage to the lowest risk group,kids. The numbers don’t lie.
I didn't miss your point. Using your twisted logic, it could be argued that anyone who contracted Covid has an inherently weak immune system, and they should sacrifice their lifestyles for the overall safety of our society. How would you like that narrative?
"We owe it to our families and future generations to keep our society and culture sound and solvent. So, PLEASE just get your F’’’king shot already!"
Perhaps you should head down to the border, set up a revival tent, and preach it to the our newly invited guests. You know...the ones that don't give a shit about us, our families, or any other American citizens. Perhaps you can wait until they fly the illegals into your hometown for redistribution. Tell them they need to get the shot before they get all of their free shit! SMH
You don’t understand much yourself. Italians are huggers and gatherers, no matter what the government says. Point being, there are lots of variables at play besides what policies were instituted. Since you feel comfortable concluding frequently what most people do, I comfortably conclude you are one of those who only see information that confirms your pre-existing biases.
Anyone on the fence should re-read Az-Rich’s post. Intelligent thoughts. Jack, you are excused from that
Jack you also have a leg up on us who haven’t had the virus yet. You know you are in the “mild” case category. Chances are 94% that my experience with Covid, if I do contract it, will be similar to yours. But I have seen friends of mine in that 6%. And not just obese or with medical issues.
And you ignore the aftermath. As stated already multiple times: it ain’t just the death statistics. You could prob double or triple that 6% when you include those that will have long term and possibly lifelong problems after “getting over” this virus.
And as also stated: if this was only killing children, we would not be having this discussion.
You are entitled to your opinion as am I. Good hunting!
"Over 92 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 8, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 1,637 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths."
While the deaths that have occurred following vaccination, even if 100% was due to them - although none has actually been attributed to the vaccine, you would still be ~1,000x more likely to die from COVID.
"The idiocy here is trying to compare the first to either of the other two."
Ding ding ding! Spot on Matt! There are risks associated with getting the vaccine and risks associated with not getting it. People should compare those risks and make their own decisions. To suggest neither choice has any risks is simply wrong. But for most people, the risks of getting covid far, far outweigh any risks associated with getting the vaccine. My read of the risks comparison is crystal clear, but others conclude differently. Unfortunately, the amount of misinformation factoring into many people's decision is very troubling (this thread being an excellent source of much misinformation).
Some have gotten far away from the Altar of Darwinism.....worshiping evolution, survival of the fittest, etc ....now it's " EVERYONE OUT OF MY WAY, STAY 6 FEET BACK, AND GET VACCINATED SO YOU DON"T INFECT ME!" ME ME ME lol
I hope the Medical Community has done a better job with the mRNA " vaccine " than they have done with treatment protocols in 2020. Seems like a lot of unnecessary deaths to me, since they know all the answers... The " experts " thought Agent Orange was the best thing since sliced bread too, in the early '70's.
Well, first round down today...Almost went with the Johnson and Johnson, but stuck with the two-fer! So far so good, only question I have is...What’s up with the micro-chip?!? Didn’t expect that one...
Got my second Pfizer shot on the 21st, did it more so for my friends as I have never been one to get the yearly Flu shots as I rarely get sick. In my last 17 years of work I missed 1 or 2 partial days. Only missed one day (day of surgery) for my rotator cuff surgery.
Just got the 2nd Moderna shot at the local VA clinic around 0845 this morning. I specifically used the same arm as the first. Something I noticed was my arm felt the soreness quicker this shot versus the 1st shot. I feel a little tired but that could be due to a pretty late night of fishing and then getting up early this morning. After I ate some lunch, I took a little snooze. When I woke up a bit ago I felt groggy and my eyes a touch scratchy. I walked outside to get some fresh air. My head feels a touch off but that could be due still waking up. Body temp shows 97.4. Otherwise.....so far...so good. We'll see how it goes for the next day or so.
Young man who works for me got a call today. His 45 year old aunt was sheltering at home with a case of Covid. Was doing well she thought but was talking to his Mom on the phone and suddenly her speech became slurred and the line went dead. She had thrown a clot into her lungs. But the time EMS got there and got her to hospital, she was dead
How many stories like this do people have to hear before they realize this is not just another virus??!!
Felt very off last night. Slight chill, aches, head fuzzy. Took a 600mg ibuprofen for the body stiffness....never got a fever. About 0400 this morning it was like someone turned a key and poof. Everything went away. When I woke up a bit ago I felt pretty good. Hopefully it's over.
Then explain all the less than 30 year olds and kids. Please.
But here’s a fact.
mRNA – Also known as messenger ribonucleic acid, mRNA is the only active ingredient in the vaccine. The mRNA molecules contain the genetic material that provide instructions for our body on how to make a viral protein that triggers an immune response within our bodies. The immune response is what causes our bodies to make the antibodies needed to protect us from getting infected if exposed to the coronavirus.
Wife and I got jabbed by the one shot Johnson and Johnson shot yesterday. I never skipped a beat. Wife is sore and tired today. Says she felt like she got run over by a truck. For me getting it wasn’t an option. I love to travel and hunt and IMO you’re gonna need it to travel some places.
No one really knows how long antibodies from having Covid or from getting the vaccine last or how much it varies or why. A couple years down the road we will have more info. CDC recommends getting the vaccine if you have had Covid. Some think that s a good reason to take it, some feel thats a decent reason to be skeptical of taking it.
"I heard a Dr on the radio today who said if you had it(I did) he doesn't recommend the vaccine has anyone heard this?"
What was his reasoning? Some have suggested a policy that those who have natural immunity due to a COVID infection in the past 90 days delay to allow those who have not to get the vaccine to maximize societal protection.
While I believe the research is limited, from what I have read the response with the vaccine following being COVID positive results in a significantly higher level of antibodies and there is a belief the protection may be more durable than natural immunity.
I’m a retired physician. I’ve had Dr. In front with f my name for 38 years . I read the research and decided I was going to get vaccinated as soon as possible. It’s been a month since my second Moderna vaccination . Soreness in arm after first. Didn’t feel good the day after the second then better the next . All normal and expected results from challenging and priming immune system
I heard the same thing on a radio show the other day. As usual I tuned in in the middle of the conversation, so I don't know why he was saying that. I never did hear a medical reason. It did sound like he was giving his opinion.
"I ain't interested in taking a jab, let others take it."
Gladly! Thank you for your service to fellow Americans for standing in the breach to let others have immunity from a horrible disease that picks no favorites and runs some folks over with ease and barely touches others.
I was going to be a tough guy and not get it. Then I got diagnosed with a pulmonary condition that could result in death, or worse (waking up from a coma to learn I was still married to my first wife..) if I got the virus and it settled in my lungs - which is where it seems most comfortable. So I took the needles.
Both doses of Moderna, 10 minute wait each time, slight headache the first day after the first shots nothing the second time. There's a lot we don't know about this virus. May never know. But for me the shot was worth risk.
I fasten my seatbelt, too, and not because the gubmint requires it.
“I fasten my seatbelt, too, and not because the gubmint requires it.“
Me too but I have to say as a youngster my Daddy required it as did I with my kids. My 16 yr old son tried to test my resolve on that issue and I pulled over and told him we would stop and let him out and pick him back up on the return trip. He fastened it.
I have a friend who got both shots. Pfizer. 2 days after the second shot on March 14 and then again on March 16 he was in the ER. Massive clotting in his legs. They turned all purple with dark patches. As of today is still in what ge says is the worst pain he’s ever felt and legs are only about 50% back to normal. Of course we’re worried about a clot coming free and making it’s way to the heart or clotting beginning in his lungs. To each his own but that vax was never ready for use on humans and still isn’t. I’m in Pa, low risk, and already had C19 so I’m last on the list. Hopefully they’ll refine it before I’m eligible.
Mulepower, you might want to check the stats on adverse events due to the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. There were 113 deaths and 640 serious adverse events in a sample of 13.8MM. Not inconsequential, but you need to move the decimal a few places when comparing risks associated with the vaccine versus the risk of getting COVID, with the safety benefit in favor of the vaccine.
Mark....I’m sorry to hear about your friend. Really tragic to hear about people being taken from their friends and family way too soon. I have a great friend who almost had his number called by covid, but he survived.
Our county is very rural and lightly populated. We’ve had 52 deaths here r/t the virus. I’m friends with a couple of guys who own funeral homes. Both of them contracted the virus within 3 months of its arrival. Both told me they were very sick, but rode it out at home. Both have prepared bodies of those who died from covid, and have seen the final outcome. They’ve both told me about tragic deaths and subsequent funerals for people in their 40s and 50s. Finally, both of them got the vaccine and now publicly encourage its acceptance.
I’m looking forward ti getting it actually. All the comments here, on Facebook... wherever are pretty much irrelevant to me. Of course I log them away in my mind but for me it just comes back to Cardinal rules. I wait when new products come onto the market. So there are pros and cons to being last on the list. The cons are obvious. But so are the pros. By the time I make my way to the front of the line it could be a little more well developed. Maybe not!
I lost a good friend last year. Think of him every day. I had another who had a brush with death and pulled through. They wanted to intubate him but he refused and toughed it out. His weight is still way down. It’s real and scary for sure. I can’t imagine anyone not wanting to get the vax at least at some point.
Happy to have got the second shot yesterday. Fought through some really nasty non Covid related lung issues over the winter. Doubt I could have survived Covid. On the mend now & hoping for a better year for all
Wife and I are almost 4 weeks past the second shot with no lasting side effects. Mom had a nasty day of flu-like conditions after the second one. Showed her info on how vaccines are supposed to work...the body may well react...just doing what it should. Someone needs to explain to those who reject getting it why they should. As a 4th grader in 1955 no one explained 'why' to us with respect to polio; they just jabbed us three times over three months. Dr. Salk got it right. Hope the docs have these vaccines right. Trump pushed it through! Where is POTUS Harris?
Going with Matts number above the number of deaths (113) are much lower than you would expect from 13.8 million people with or without getting the shot. The average American lives to on average to 78.54 years. That is 28,667 days. If you divided that into 13,800,000. You expect about 481 of those people to die each day. Of course that does not take into account the age or other factors that those people face. But I think it is safe to say of the first 13.8 million to get the shot the average age would be quite high plus other risk factors for death. I would except deaths after the covid shot to be higher than that.
It’s amazing to me that nobody is dying from anything else like the normal flu or diabetes or heart disease anymore and the list goes on in regards of such minimal loss of life to all the problems and diseases that used to kill us. But look up the covid figures and that will make your head spin. Now that the CDC has that figured out and people are only dying from the China Flu now, it’s just a matter of time humans will be immortal with the vaccines hitting the market. Accept those in liberal cities still dying from gunshots despite the toughest gun laws in America.....
John if you read about the statistics of 300 plus million people in the US that contracted Covid then look at the % of people that died from it then honestly I think I’d take the risk without the vaccine. I may never contract Covid but taking the vaccine you are guaranteed to take the risk of it so let that sink in. I work with a guy that weighs 350 pounds high blood pressure and diabetes that is same age as me 42 and his Covid hell was a cough and feeling like crap for one day and I never caught it. So I’m taking my chances without it.
"It’s amazing to me that nobody is dying from anything else like the normal flu or diabetes or heart disease anymore..."
I presume you are unaware that the 2020 US mortality estimates were released last week and heart disease - which apparently no one dies of any more - was the #1 cause of death. But go on, learn us more please...
Spike I'll be the first to tell you I think the reaction to Covid was over blown, especially the way they shutdown the country. But I have also seen the effects of Covid first hand. I knew two people very well that have died and one of them in the last couple of weeks and several other that ended up in the hospital. I am not a mask wearer. The data is not there for them being effective and I have a huge problem with them being mandatory. With that said I am getting by first shot tomorrow. I think the evidence is there that shows it works and it is safe. I could careless if anyone else gets it that up to them. But the stats don't lie. If you are playing the odds it makes since to get the needle.
My entire family is now vaccinated. Nobody had anything worse than 12 hours of feeling puny. Most had a sore arm and that was it. We’re all still doing the same things (precautions) we did before the vaccine. No sweat.
I would like to see the effectiveness of the vaccine if people are still getting covid then it’s pointless. If people don’t get well then it’s really hard to tell whether it was effective or just luck. I have never taken a flu shot and the last time I got the flu was approx 24 years ago or later. I’m hoping my odds are good.
Spike there is major data out there on the effectiveness of the vaccine. In clinic studies virtually no one got seriously sick from Covid, very few got it at all in those study and many of those that did only had it because it showed up on weekly Covid test they received in the study. The vaccine works that not debatable.
I don't have the patience or maybe the smarts to explain clinic trials to you. But I worked for big pharm for about 15 years. I get clinic trials. The statically probability of the results being "luck" are probably similar to you when the power ball 3 times in a row.
When this first started I thought it was way overblown and used for political gain. It was but that doesn't change the fact that it can kill you. I got it and ended up in the hospital. I have permanent heart damage from covid. I swore at one time hell would freeze over before I would take the vaccination. If I could do it over and knew what I know now I would be the first in line.
The main reason we still do the precautions is because 1) most businesses here have signs on the door requesting mask use, 2) we have always practiced good hand hygiene as we’re both health care professionals, and 3) we have supported the 3 Ws from the beginning and think it’s still the socially responsible thing to do until the infection rate (% +) drops to low levels. And as I always say, we avoid judgment and think everyone has the ultimate right to decide how to live in their own spaces.
Some people still catch it, but the data show a few things: One is that almost no one gets really sick. Two is that the amount of virus in your nasal passages is a fraction the average person so transmissibility is a fraction of what it would otherwise be. Three is that people who've had both shots and it's been 2 weeks from their second, are not dying and being hospitalized in the thousands.
The vaccines have been a blessing. There is no reason to not get it at this point other than being stubborn and/or holding to some righteous partisanship - ie: cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Thornton, interesting. On one hand, only 246 COVID positive out of 1.7MM vaccinated would mean the infection rate is just a fraction of 1% of those fully vaccinated (probably a bad stat as I doubt they tested everyone, and some who were vaccinated probably still show positive from prior infection) which would speak to the effectiveness of the vaccine.
On the other hand, it would be interesting to know what killed the 3 who died because I believe the number of COVID deaths in the clinical trials which had many times more participants had essentially 0 deaths or even hospitalizations.
Not sure about Michigan, but it sounds like Quebec and Ontario (as well as BC) are getting hit with the UK variant (B.1.1.7) which is acting more quickly, sickening much younger people, and they are claiming has a death rate that is ~50% greater than the original.
Are you still there Matt? I almost couldn’t hear you with your 3 masks and your face shield on. Yes I was exaggerating and being just a tad sarcastic. Are you denying that Covid death numbers are being exaggerated?
"Are you denying that Covid death numbers are being exaggerated?"
Politicized, yes. Exaggerated? I have seen some obvious examples of instances where COVID was allegedly listed as the cause of death where it obviously was not, but is the total exaggerated? I do not think so. Excess deaths in the US in 2020 was 523K. While certainly not all were due to COVID, it makes the 345K 2020 US COVID deaths believable. Some medical experts are saying that COVID deaths were likely undercounted given the significant lack of testing capacity early on, which is likewise plausible given the excess death figure.
I'm about 32 hours post second Pfizer vaccine dose and honestly, I have had zero side effects. The injection site was just slightly sore today. Even did shoulders, triceps, traps and chest at the gym today. My wife on the other hand, woke up fine this morning but by midday was getting the chills. They lasted about 3-4 hours and she's all good now.
Got my 2nd Moderna shot Wednesday, 2 days ago. I did feel a bit crappy yesterday but seem ok today. My wife and I had the first shot about 6 weeks ago with no side effects other than sore spot on arm. Personal choice if you don't want to get vaccine, totally get that. My brother almost died from Covid, and is still suffering from the effects, so I figured the vaccine was worth the risks, hope I'm right.
My 38YO son got covid from his wife who got it from a deaf employee at the school she works at. My DIL had to remove her mask so the deaf co worker could read her lips. My son is still dealing with minor lung issues 4 months after getting covid, and he has asthma also.
I saw this on Facebook this AM and found it interesting. Where I live never shut down, never masked, never did anything and here are our current numbers. We are rural which helps for sure too. Sure wish Canada could figure things out and open the border.
Treeline, insanity it is. I work with an ER physician that also has a large family practice clinic. He survived covid and was even hospitalized with it. He said every employee he has got covid even with strict protocol for N95 masks and gowns. He's completely against masking now and states he has lost faith in several aspects of how the pandemic was ran by his colleagues and gov't. Ditto on the Ivermectin. Lots of people took it including myself with excellent results.
Got first dose of Moderna today. No side affects yet. I mostly got the vaccine hoping that makes a trip to Hawaii in July easier. Also both parents have had cancer, and brother had MS so hoping not to give them Covid. Hoping for a mostly normal life after vaccine.
Most people I know that have caught the virus had very little symptoms, one person died.
The long term effects of a Covid infection ? Too soon to tell. You might get it, have mild symptoms, recover, only to find that there is lasting damage that wasn't apparent. Weighing that against long term effects of the vaccine, I got the shots.
"Spike there is major data out there on the effectiveness of the vaccine."
Really? No. Really? A vaccine that is less than one year old has major data? Long term efficacy? None? Long term side effects? None. WE are the clinicals and long term trials. And THAT is my issue with the vaccine.
"So, 20 years out of college and you're still a weasel? Some education..."
Amazing, isn't it, that the same people who support the breaking of laws by tens of millions of illegals will turn around and attempt to shame actual Citizens for even joking about circumventing a system that is actively being implemented to reduce our rights, freedoms and liberties. The leftist brain is truly addled.
bigswivle - let me know when you find a hook-up. ;o)
"Who cares if someone doesn’t want the vaccine. Good lord"
Obviously, the snowflakes who are so afraid of the China virus (or anything they're told to fear) they piss their pants at the thought of anyone not complying with Big Brother's marching orders. They are embarrassed for not standing up for themselves and their rights. So, they compensate by trying to ridicule or shame those don't need big gov to tell them what to do, how to do it and when.
“ From: Matt 15-Apr-21Private Reply Clinical studies on ivermectin showed no benefit for COVID. You might google it.”
That’s the problem with Google. You can find any position on any subject you want. Please post links to credible science that says ivermectin doesn’t help. I haven’t seen that. Quite a few that indicate it might be helpful.
It is sad. Nutsacks running around the internet shaming professionals like Thornton who make a living treating sick people. Because they think his experience and, the advice of so many other non Faucci professionals is irrelevant in the face of their fear. They’ll hide it behind compassion for mankind. When it’s nothing more then an individual decision that doesn’t align with the indoctrination of mainstream thought. Rightfully so. I rarely trust anyone making a living in a suit and tie while lecturing others about a job that you can’t do in a suit and tie. This is no different.
Throughout history, the best minds and people among human kind have always been ridiculed for their taboo thoughts and beliefs. And, history has shown they weren’t that taboo at all. I’m pretty certain that’s the “science” of this virus.
I’m happy for those that’s got it. I’m happy it’s available. I think it’s likely safe. Especially in the short term. But, I’m willing to let my fellow man decide if it’s for him. Without all the shaming and condescending talk.
You almost stand a better chance of choking to death on a hotdog then dying from this. But, if it makes Dana and Matt feel better, let’s throw out logic and human rights. Yeah boy. Sign me up.
Dana that is a dumb statement by a lefty(you) that is more worried about doing something because it feels good than any other reason.
I have gotten my first vaccine because I have looked at the data and I believe it is safe and effective and I don't want to get the China Virus. With that said anyone I could infect if I didn't get it has had the choice to get it or not get it. Anyone high risk was eligible to get the vaccine long before me. If they don't get vaccinated and get the China Virus that is on them. It is not mine or anyone else responsibility to get a vaccine they are not comfortable getting to protect someone else that decided not to get vaccinated.
Get the vaccine if you are comfortable getting. Don't get it if you are not comfortable getting. If you are not comfortable getting that is your call, but no need to call out those that are comfortable getting it. Same with us that are comfortable getting vaccinated that is our choice. Not our place to berate those that don't want to get it.
No. I am not afraid for me, DanaC. I have certainty in my life and what will happen afterwards.
I have significant concerns for humanity, freedom and God given rights. The last year has not given me much hope for humanity.
I truly would have never dreamed I would ever see so many Americans blindly run to follow all of the baseless unscientific mandates and rush to get a shot that has the potential of massively changing humanity. Blindly putting faith in the MSM, big pharma, big tech, and politicians that the jab is necessary.
Throwing away their basic human rights and demanding mine!
The attacks on religion, individual freedom, and censorship of anything not following the narrative are not what this country was founded on not what its people believed in. Not that long ago, our fathers, grandfathers, sons and daughters went to wars with other countries overseas to free their people from this kind of tyranny and oppression.
99.97% survivable. Far lower fatality than the flu. Improved treatment using safe, effective, inexpensive drugs that have been in use for many years with minimal side effects.
No, the FEAR has gripped far to many in this country and around the world. Hopefully people come to their senses and see how baseless that FEAR really was before it’s too late.
Hell, may already be too late.
Communism is the virus. Covid is just how it was spread...
My "logic" was simply there are side effects to vaccines, and we now know there are also, and potentially life-long, side effects with Covid. At 62, diabetic, but otherwise in good health, active, vitamin taker, and wanting to remain that way for the 14 years or so the actuary tables say I will most likely live, I decided to take it because if there are long term side effects, I won't be here for them. Second consideration is simply IMO based on what I have read and learned is that the more time, and more hosts this virus finds, the more chances it has to mutate into something worse or the vaccines are not effective against which leads me to believe we should all be encouraged to receive the vaccine, but not forced to.
Is that logical thinking, or does that make me a Marxist nut sack that just does what the government tells me to do? Asking for a friend.
One warning about those counterfeit vaccination cards, don't get caught with one in MN or you might end up face down, handcuffed, with a knee to your neck/shoulders and unable to breathe.
Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and political freedom, emphasizing free association, freedom of choice, individualism and voluntary association. Libertarians share a skepticism of authority and state power, but some of them diverge on the scope of their opposition to existing economic and political systems
In fact that sounds a lot like Trump republicans.
Sorry that does not fit your post on here even a little bit.
"That’s the problem with Google. You can find any position on any subject you want. Please post links to credible science that says ivermectin doesn’t help. I haven’t seen that. Quite a few that indicate it might be helpful."
I linked one of the few studies I read. My take away was that, although there were some measures that showed improvement with ivermectin, they fell into the statistically insignificant category. Not a treatment I personally would hang my hat on.
I do wonder how many guys have run down to the feed store after reading the comment....
There has been some evidence that the vaccines have been successful. From the data posted here in Colorado, a majority of the new cases are below age 60. This is a reversal from earlier in the pandemic, as most of the vaccinations have gone to age 60+. Justification in my book to get the vaccine.
It is interesting to me that the people who complain the loudest about the loss of freedoms and economic damage due to COVID still have not come to the understanding that herd immunity achieved through widespread vaccination is the fastest way to regain what you think we have lost and to get the economy fully re-opened.
Treeline - your latest post above is one of the best ever. Ditto. Unfortunately, libtards are so stupid they continually redefine words to convey the opposite of the original meaning. That kind of backwards thinking makes them next to impossible to reform. When the basis for their "caring for others" is mandated and forced behavior via threat of government guns, it is plain to see they are irretrievably lost.
It is interesting to me that the people who complain the loudest about those who stand for their own freedoms and economic sovereignty still have never come to the understanding that freedom isn't free and can only be achieved through the widespread practice of the rights enumerated in The Constitution, not fear-based, controlled, behavior that only increases reliance and dependence on a centralized government. The fastest way to regain what has been stolen is to take back the authority we've abdicated and demand of our REPRESENTATIVES that the economy be fully opened with no restrictions. - There ya go Matt, I changed up your words just a bit to reflect a more historically accurate mindset for a Constitution-loving American Citizen.
DANA if you think you're protecting your loved ones because of the shot sadly mistaken. el paso 750 people who had the shots got covid and they say its a drop in the bucket to the real numbers. you should look up the miracle drug thalidomide they gave to pregant women in the 50's . thousands of birth defects. let's see the long term effects of covid shot??? if you cared about people you'd be down at the border helping those poor illegals. with our esteemed V.P.
HfW - you may be the only one on this site that believes you could possibly think that far ahead. You are, however, fairly adept at backpedaling because of all the practice over the years. You were a cop hater when you showed up here and are still taking jabs at them today. You've just learned to adjust your tone so a few will buy your into your "thoughtful moderate" routine.
Personally I've seen, and got more grief because I CHOSE to get the shot than those that don't get it. I have no issue either way, I just hope people are making the decision based on logic, not conspiracy theories or other junk. There is PLENTY of valid medical data on both sides, decide for yourself, your condition, your health, your life. Then execute on that decision - get the shot or not.
Matt - call, write, email, show-up, complain, bitch, drive them crazy, etc. until they actually represent us. Vote them out, support their opponents, boycott their backers, never let down. It takes work, but if they won't represent our views, they need to be made miserable. If they ultimately refuse to stop their tyranny, there is an enumerated right that addresses that issue.
The biggest problem is that too many don't care to be involved in the actual political process. Hence, I give no RINO, libtard or chicken-little any quarter when it comes to this stuff. I don't care if one is afraid of their own shadow, I refuse to be. I don't care if one wants the Indoctrination Inoculation, I refuse. If one wants to wear a behavioral control device on their face and jump on the virtue signaling bandwagon, good for them - I'm not interested.
What I am interested in is being able to live my life as outlined in The Constitution with a fedgov constrained by the same.
I don't back peddle or mince words. Only extremists like you will claim someone is a cop hater who is willing to call out the cops who abuse their authority, which is exactly what our FF would expect us to do. And the ones who abuse their authority are in the vast minority, like every profession.
And, I call those officers out whether they abused their authority against a minority or non-minority, whereas obviously we have seen some extremists who have different standards for minorities.
I'm 24hrs out from Pfizer #1. Left delt (where I got the shot) is a teeny bit sore, less than if I'd bruised it... just sort of noticeable. And that's it.
Looking forward to shot 2, in 3 weeks.
I tend to agree with Bob on a lot of his post. If you are unsure, talk to your medical provider and find out if they feel if it makes sense for you. They do, unquestionably, know more about it relative to you than anyone you will see on the news or read from in any online platform.
Also - Ivermectin and covid, please understand that Merck, who MAKES THE DANG STUFF has publicly noted it does NOT work for COVID. Zero. Ziltch. Bumpkiss. Tweedledee doo. Nada. Nuttin. They could make gazillions by just pretending it worked and trying to get folks to prescribe it (tough to do with zero evidence though)... https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/
Then again I have a friend who is still convinced it's a cure all because their chiropractor showed them a study about how in a petri dish it could kill covid - dish soap does too, just sayin... and despite the reams of evidence it does zero... the misinformation/pseudoscience world has kept pushing it a bit.
Also note, that the medical community wants, BADLY, to help every person they see. If you seriously believe physicians, NP's, PA's, etc would choose to stop (HCQ for example) using a drug or NOT use a drug (ivermectin for example) that had evidence it worked for some secret reason, you are wrong.
"And you think that will happen faster than June 15, 2021? That is the date that our state is planning to fully reopen the economy based on herd immunity achieved through vaccination."
Matt, I never said or implied that. What I have said, multiple times and ways is that the damage done by closing down our country is FAR greater than the lives lost to the China virus. The control exerted over us, and welcomed by so many sheeple, has irreparably harmed our nation. Had we not imprisoned innocent, healthy people against their will, we may well have already achieved herd immunity. With forced isolation we may well have prolonged the time it takes to reach it. Regardless, I don't give a crap about a date certain on herd immunity. I give a crap about freedoms and being able to choose how to live for ourselves. No tiny scrap of possible safety or security is worth suspending or giving away our God-given rights as Citizens. If you're afraid, by all means wrap yourself in a bubble inside your home and refuse to interact with others, wear your behavioral control devices and volunteer to be a pincushion for big pharma. I truly believe you should have all those choices. Just don't force your fears and beliefs onto the rest of us by the heavy, punitive hand of govt.
"The fastest way to regain what has been stolen is to take back the authority we've abdicated and demand of our REPRESENTATIVES that the economy be fully opened with no restrictions."
If you didn't say that, what did you mean by your comment above?
I find it interesting that some people automatically ascribe "fear" as the reason that people would get vaccinated, perhaps it helps them rationalize their decisions? The things I am concerned about - not in fear of - are the economy, people's livelihoods, and the amount of debt our nation will be passing along to our children. The faster we are done with the pandemic-related restrictions, the better. If I have take on some risk of the unknown to advance the greater good, so be it. It used to be that self-sacrifice was an American value. Now it seems like some use terms like "freedom", "liberty", and "patriotism" as euphemisms for entitlement.
Science should dictate whether one gets vaccinated. Plenty of data that shows the vast majority will survive without a vaccine. You know? Like the regular flu? I’ve said it before. Get the vaccine if it’s your choice. Don’t get it if it’s your choice. Freedom of choice seems to only apply if you’re killing babies.........
The “pandemic” restrictions were based on false premise with unconstitutional stripping of individual rights and freedoms.
You are justifying the striping of rights, freedom and pursuit of livelihood from your fellow man in your assertions. The forcible imposition of your will and beliefs on those that share a difference of opinion.
Step back, take a deep breath and think about what you are saying.
“And you think that will happen faster than June 15, 2021? That is the date that our state is planning to fully reopen the economy based on herd immunity achieved through vaccination.“
Ironic. That's about the time the effectivness of the Pfizer vaccine starts wearing off.
Then.... we can "look at the rules we are being forced to live by and trying to chart the most practical and expeditious path out of it."
Kinda funny someone criticizes those that espouse freedom and constitutional restraint on government overeach and at the same time licking the boot upon their neck. Because complacency is the governments best friend.
Bigswivle. Thats what I want to hear. We were planning a family vacation to the NE states this summer. With all their BS covid restrictions they have up there, we switched it up and flying to Florida instead.
I got my second Moderna vaccine shot last Saturday. Had chills and a low grade fever Saturday night and I felt like a big dog turd for the next few days. Feeling a little better today and hope the trend continues. I haven’t been able to shake the Covid symptoms since I had it in December though. I read that upwards of 40% of the “long haulers” get over the symptoms after their second shot. Hope so, but I’m sure I’ll be one of the lucky ones and keep on having this crap until I die.
Matt, your medical knowledge and explanations have been very enlightening and far exceed what I personally understand about the China virus. I tend to break things down into the simplest of terms. Here are my bullet-pointed thoughts on the entire matter:
The China virus is real.
It is definitely the reason that a small percentage of people have died and another unknown, but still small, percentage have/will have lingering/lifetime complications.
Life is not without risk.
Bad shit happens all the time.
The United States was formed by brilliant men who acknowledged Man's God-given rights to live a life free from centralized government control.
In your current parlance, I *identify* as a free man.
In my never-changing parlance, I AM a free man.
I accept that MY decisions may have negative consequences for ME.
I reject that you, or anyone else, has authority over me.
I neither want, nor will attempt, to exert authority over you.
If one attempts to exert authority over me, they are an enemy of my freedom and me.
It's really that simple. The tenets of The Constitution are immutable. Being locked up against our will, being forced to wear behavioral control devices and having our free movements controlled by coerced medical procedures is unacceptable to me. I will not comply. The cost of subjugation is too great.
Worked in Pharma for 8 years. Have no reason to lie. This was an untested, unproven vaccine, dumped on an all too compliant society. Feel free to Google yourself. Study after study shows it's efficacy runs about 6 months. They "think" it should run longer, but given they've been wrong OR have changed positions numerous times, let's just say if I was a betting man, these restrictions and mandates will be in place for quite sometime.
This was a perfect opportunity or crisis for government at federal and state levels. And we know what the democrats think of a "good crisis". Not an anti-vaxxer by any means. Except for this one. And that is because of the timline and lack of long term data. Period.
I got vaccinated. I’m not a vaccine denier, but math matters.
Illinois has 57% of the population of Florida. Despite Florida’s aged population, not operating under a lockdown and its tourism, and with the “largest outbreak of new Covid cases”, Illinois has 55% of the Active Covid cases of Florida. What I would call a statistically insignificant difference.
Why is Florida running neck and neck with Illinois despite its demographics and tourism and lack of restrictions as risk multipliers? Would Illinois be worse off if it’s economy were freed?
I’m just saying that there doesn’t seem to be a correlation like I would expect.
My oldest has asthma. I’m being as prudent as possible. We’ve been successful in avoiding Covid in my immediate family... so far.
Something else has to be in play though.
Logic dictates that Texas and Florida should have much higher per capita numbers than Illinois, but they don’t.
People can make fun of me for my precautions. I’m not going to change my approach. I’m pretty much simply following the directions that I got from my grandmother when I was a kid. Seems to make sense to me and I don’t think it’s onerous.
But I am sitting at work, within 100 yards of at least a half dozen businesses that have closed and many more that are in dire straits.
The lockdowns here have had a very real detrimental impact on real people and there doesn’t seem to be any real, readily visible benefit to the infection rate compared to areas that aren’t killing their businesses and destroying people’s livelihoods.
Thx Hack for such a scientific review of how masks and restrictions are not working ;-)
Could it be there are a lot of other factors at work as well??? Such as in my state of Texas. Here it could be that our big numbers of cases in the past (when we removed restrictions) along with our present massive vaccine program, are helping us reach some semblance of herd immunity.
You can pretty much make statistics say whatever you want them to say, but it’s never that simple.
I'm not disputing the economic impact that the shutdowns have had. But I do believe they served to slow down the spread of the virus. Whether the cost was worth the reward is for each to decide. The shutdowns had very little impact on my life. And like your family, we've been lucky to avoid getting infected. But I realize it's a different story for many.
I'm just tired of the hand-wringers whining about "loss of freedoms" and "behavioral control devices", as if those temporary measures were the end of the world. We're a society of laws and regulations, after all.
Haha. Interesting chart Jackaroo. Not sure if it’s legit but it sounds right. :-)
But to those that are thinking conservative = not getting Covid vaccine....... not true. As a staunch conservative and a veterinarian, for me it is about the science. And I don’t believe there is a world wide medical community conspiracy . Governmental control about what I do and where I go is a whole other subject.
I'm just tired of the hand-wringers whining about "others engaging in their freedoms" and "not putting my fears & feelings first", as if a virus with a 98-99% survival rate (only ~10% contract rate) were the end of the world. We're a Constitutional Republic with enumerated God-given rights, freedoms and liberties, after all.
Forcing unconstitutional measures on small businesses and actually knowing their business and financial lives will be destroyed should be unacceptable to anyone who values their freedom. Slowing the curve was supposed to last a couple weeks. Thirteen months in and still using the weight of the government to destroy lives can not be considered, "temporary measures".
And txhunter58 - those stats are the CDC's, not mine. If you look at the indoctrination inoculation percentages, TX is the lowest of the states I posted and well below the worst states in overall death rate. You read anything you want into this scamdemic to justify your cowering in the corner and support of punitive measures on those who want to live free - you have the right to be an idiot.
Yep. I’m just a guy on the internet. But I have the same medical degrees as Bill Gates.
Logic suggests that previous infections, vaccines and prudence should be having impact. I am not advocating for people to avoid the vaccine, disregard prudence and start licking gooey people.
I’m washing hands frequently, actively working to get more sleep, eat nutritious meals, exercise outdoors and because I’m Swedish, thus likely Vitamin D deficient, I’m taking Vitamin D and though I’m not a soda and crap food fan, I’m really avoiding anything with high fructose corn syrup which apparently affects Vitamin D. And I’m taking some other vitamins as well.
I never took vitamins before, but I figure that the $0.29 that I’m spending a day is inconsequential and even if it doesn’t help, it won’t hurt.
I have a buddy who’s a triathlete. He got Covid after Thanksgiving. It was a mild case, but he’s now one of the “Long Haulers”. It’s been about four and a half months and he still can’t run around the block.
I have people busting my balls from both ends of the spectrum every day. That’s OK. I’m going to do what I think is right or prudent with the limited info that I have.
I’m kind of like Goldilocks. I firmly believe that Covid is real and can be very serious. I have friends and family that have been impacted seriously and died. I also believe that the government has out stepped its bounds. Chicago politics originated the idea, “Never let a good crisis go to waste.” I think the government has gotten out of control and is headed further.
But I am aware of my own hypocrisies and work to explore them.
How about smoking in bars, concert arenas and restaurants? The government has the right to ban smoking from public places? If I were to choose to go to a bar with smoking that’d be my choice... and second hand smoke wouldn’t be coming home with me to kill an elderly family member or my kid with asthma.
How about asbestos and lead abatement? If I choose to work with asbestos and lead without proper protocols and protection, that’s my choice, right? And I can choose to bring that exposure home on my clothes to expose my kids when I hug them, right?
So, I guess that I’m just saying that this is more complicated than binary. And that I’m just a contrarian, agreeing and disagreeing with everyone.
It takes quite a few rationalizations for me to get through each day.
Excellent rational approach! And there are differences between the states, weather such as average temperatures, sun exposure etc. might even play a role.
Second shot scheduled for next week, but I do believe the government has gone too far at this point. The costs of closure seem to be much greater than the benefits, and I say this with the utmost respect for human life and not wanting any further deaths or debilitations. OB is taking personal responsibility and watching his own behavior, which we all must do. The government should provide the facts as they discover them to allow us to process the information and make better individual decisions, but we have to take calculated risks and move forward IMHO.
“ I'm not disputing the economic impact that the shutdowns have had. But I do believe they served to slow down the spread of the virus. Whether the cost was worth the reward is for each to decide. The shutdowns had very little impact on my life. And like your family, we've been lucky to avoid getting infected. But I realize it's a different story for many.”
“The shutdowns had very little impact on my life.”
Initially I supported the shutdown; however, after awhile the government's worst case scenarios did not materialize and it became difficult to justify their actions. Here are the numbers I still find most puzzling;
1917 Spanish Flu...50 million plus deaths
Chinese Covid....3 million approximate deaths so far
BIG difference even considering counting errors that no doubt occurred.
More people exist today, greater densities, more travel etc. than in 1917. Maybe the shutdowns, improved sanitation, social distancing, better health care made that much of a difference? I find it hard to believe that this virus is as bad as predicted. Don't think it was a conspiracy, just think they got it wrong, but I have no health care training so my thoughts don't matter.
I'm not sure if your meme is intended as an insult, or not, but I'll take it as a compliment. I loved that movie and the character that Clint Eastwood played in it. It also had a good message about the merits of hard work, honesty, and overcoming racial biases.
Hackbow, I hope you find peace and happiness in your life, because it must be miserable living with your doom and gloom attitude.
Just some humor. No insult intended. I like the movie.
Please always default to assuming that I mean no harm with any of my posts. I’m an ex-rugby player. I’m not passive aggressive. More aggressive aggressive. If my desire is to insult, I will be direct and pointed.
As I alluded to earlier, my views don’t really align with anyone else’s and when they do, I still have contradictions that I have to rationalize.
Life would be very difficult if I needed everyone to agree with me. I’d have to be a hermit.
Am I missing something here? Everyone is acting like the vaccine is a cure. From what I have seen, read about the vaccine, and please correct me if I am wrong....
You can still get covid. Just lessons the effects.
You can still pass covid to others.
You still have to wear a mask.
We still have to lockdown.
So if what the experts are saying is true, you're really not protecting anyone. Accept maybe yourself, by it lessening the effects, if you do happen to contract it.
But get it for the greater good, because we tell you to. And try to shame anyone that doesn't agree with you regardless of what side you are on.
This is/was America! We used to stand for the rights of the individual.
Get it if you want, don't if you don't. But this BS of restricting travel, work, concerts, anything because you don't have a vaccine card, is a bunch of crap. Shaming people cuz they don't get the vaccine, or wear a mask because they are killing people, is another bunch of crap.
How right you are 3rd Degree. There is so much fear out there and in all my life I have never known Americans to be afraid of anything let alone what some quack like Fauci and the puppet Biden is telling us to do. What people should be fearing is what’s going to happen if they aren’t putting their faith in God and trusting Jesus.
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