Being an old Navy Corpsman (Medic) of 5 years with 2 of them with a Marine line Company, I'm no stranger to getting & giving shots (the old fashioned way 59 thru 63). I've definatley seen about every reaction you can think of.. Yes, I've had one & 2nd soon. Oh, in training I had to give myself a shot in the thigh. THAT was a day to remember. The thought is much worse than the shot..
Had it in December. I think the main goal of the pharmaceutical companies was to throw together a recipe as fast as possible to cash in. I think I’ll give it some time to work the bugs out. I’ve never been one to a buy a vehicle with a “new and improved” motor. And I’ve always smiled when I saw people complain for two years before they modified the design. If I was high risk I might feel differently.
"I think the main goal of the pharmaceutical companies was to throw together a recipe as fast as possible to cash in."
Government $$ are da best. Anyhow.... I worked with big pharma for awhile, developing assembly solutions for drug delivery systems. Time to delivery for new drugs/vaccines is typically in the 5-10 year range. This was done in under a year. My understanding (and please someone correct me if I'm wrong) is that instead of a normal "killed" virus vaccine, a genetically modified virus was used to develope the vaccine. The reason being, it's cheaper and faster. Well, in the machine/automation world there is an axiom whereby there are three outcomes available. Good, fast and cheap. Of those three, you can have two. Hence, if it's fast and cheap, guesss what it ain't.
There are has been no long term study as to the efficacy (which we have seen dropping), no long term study on side effects.... No thanks. I'll wait until it's been proven 45-50% effective like other flu vaccines and then pass on it as well.
Got the second dose on Friday. No side effects aside from a minor case of chills. A lot of my coworkers got pretty sick for a night so I guess I got lucky. Couldn’t even feel the microchip go through my pulmonary system
Since I was a kid, I've always hated needles. A few years ago some friends held a blood drive in memory of their son, who passed away and needed many blood products during his battle. I donated for him and have donated every 2-3 months since. My fear of needles has vanished.
My wife finished her 2nd round a couple weeks ago. I've enjoyed the better 5G reception for my cell phone. I'll be towards the back of the vaccination line, but you'd better believe I'll get the shot as soon as I can. I'm holding out hope that maybe we'll be allowed to go to Canada fishing late this summer with record of a vaccination.
Not doin' it, and you can't make me! Said like a 5 year old, including the foot stomp.
Won't be surprised if they start trying to force us to take it. No problem with anyone that wants one. Never had a flu shot, never needed one. Don't need this one. Like Bowbender said, not nearly enough testing.
3rd Degree they have their way of making things mandatory without forcing you to do anything. You don’t have to get the vaccine as long as you never need to fly on an airline again. Pretty soon they’ll work their way to no firearms or ammo for non vaccinated citizens. But of course that’s our choice.
The ongoing natural spread of the initial viral strain has already taken an enormous toll on the economy, not even referencing the >400,000 deaths in the US alone. No one has yet had the nerve to calculate the cost of hospitalizations and its downstream effect on your health insurance costs ( most insurers are "for profit" ). That said, an ongoing source of fresh bodies to infect also allows the virus more opportunity to mutate and therefore continue to wreak havoc and to just keep on going. It might even be possible that given enough time that mutation might start the whole cycle over again and THEN where will we be? While I appreciate the reservations posted here as to taking the vaccine at this point, I would ask that people read the reasons for doing so as PERSONAL and not factual. This IS a PUBLIC health crisis and IF YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. For those not willing to take the vaccine, please HELP to slow the spread by social distancing and mask wearing. For those who are going to take it, recognize that it is believed to not only significantly reduce getting the viral infection, reducing the risk of getting a severe response to the virus, and reduces conveying the virus to others. Please do not focus on ambiguities of one report or another as this is a process in evolution and we are learning as we go. . For those about to get vaccine dose #2, you may experience 24-48 hours of not feeling well ( lethargy and possibly arthralgias) but that represents your body REPSONDING to the immunologic challenge and is a GOOD THING and a small price to pay.
"The ongoing natural spread of the initial viral strain has already taken an enormous toll on the economy,..."
No, Government mandates did that. The virus alone would have affected the economy, but not like this. We could have skipped ruining the economy, some places did. Your take on the vaccine makes sense to me.
I have not seen 1 piece of evidence that any of the vaccines stop transmission of Covid. Everything I have read shows it only lessens the severity of the infection. That’s why the CDC will keep social distancing and mask requirements in place into 2022.
Both Maderna shots done. Slight soreness in my arm at the injection sight. My wife spent the next day in bed due to aches in her joints and weakness and nausea. Internet info indicates it’s a normal reaction in some people.
Received my 2nd dose yesterday morning. Fatigue started around 8:00 and had full blown shivers starting around 11:00 which lasted until 2:00 AM. Felt crappy all day (cold, body aches) today..starting to feel better now 2:15 PM.
Bowbender & Mule Power nailed my opinion of getting a shot. I used to get the flu shot. Every year I got the flu. Said screw it in 1993, no more flu shots. Haven't had the flu since. Knock on wood (head).
The vaccine IS a vaccine and does prevent you catching the disease, in MOST. However the variable is you and your immune system. The vaccine (as all do) "trick" your immune system into fighting and building antibodies. That both takes time and will vary in each person, just like every other vaccine.
As with all other viruses, you can be immune AND pass it along. Immunity doesn't mean it won't get into your body, it means when it does, your body knows how to kill it. While it's killing it, it may still be in your respiratory system until killed, so yes you can spread it by breathing, sneezing, talking. You can also catch it with reduced symptoms, again depending on your immune system. You aren't immune right when they stick the needle in, your body needs to do some work first. For most they will be immune, others, not so much and others their body may do nothing with it.
I felt bad about getting it since I'm not in a high risk group -- but I got it as a physician. Moderna variety in my case. I do plan on ditching the mask in 2 days, when I'll be 2 weeks out of my second shot. The likelihood of meaningful infection at that point is so ridiculously low, even in my profession, that I will move on.
One thing I'm fascinated with is that people who are concerned about vaccine safety think that's an original thought. Trust me -- the more you know about drugs and vaccines (and I've spent a lot of time learning such things) you know them as powerful weapons, not unlike firearms. Do i use them? You bet! Do I respect them? More than you'll know!
The potential adverse effects are something that is concerning, for sure, especially when you are talking about giving something to a healthy population. That's true with ALL vaccines. That's why vaccine safety is something that can't be ignored.
That said, I can't find any evidence that it is ignored. On the contrary, in the professional journals I see abundant evidence that vaccine safety is taken very seriously. I wouldn't have taken the shot if I hadn't read them and reassured myself -- so I won't go telling anyone else to just "trust me". But I remain deeply impressed with these vaccines.
1.) There is no research yet on whether the two currently available Vax's in the US stop transmission... None to say it does NOT either. No one knows for sure - hence the SMART choice of staying cautious after the shot.
2.) Some people may still get sick shortly after getting the shot, especially shot 1. There has not been time for the body to build up antibodies to gain a level of protection. Given the time from infection to symptoms, it's possible someone could be infected 4-6 days before shot 1 and still get it... and given efficacy after only 1 shot (Pfizer/moderna) is 50-60% as I recall), even during the period between shots you could get it. You could also be in the 5% of folks who dont respond as well and end up getting some degree of illness. It's not impossible, but saying a few examples of folks getting sick around or after vaccination suggest it doesnt work is not a reasonable expectation. Oh, and you are not getting full benefits of the vax until about 2-3 weeks after the second shot... Soooo... Quit a while there where you need to recognize your are not getting the full protection a given vax can give you.
3.) North of 90% of people (94-95%) who get the two available in the US dont develop any symptoms if exposed. No one can totally say that means they are not infectious (see 1 above). People who get the vaccine appear to not get seriously ill IF they fall in the 5% who may still become symptomatic if exposed. In other words - the two currently available work frigging great.
4.) Feeling icky a day or so after a vaccine is your body doing what your body naturally does. With vaccination, it does that without you potentially experiencing significant consequences from natural infection.
You likely will see little pushback ditching your mask in WY. What do you think will happen to those who choose to do the same in the liberal strongholds in the US? They will be framed as being worse than the virus itself. Heck....I am in KY and our Governor is running a close race with the most liberal Govs on virus protocol. Eventually the majority of people here will just ignore him and go on with life. I just hope that everyone understands that the left is going to frame anyone not wearing a mask as a domestic terrorist. Without openly opposing our local governments we won't be maskless for a long time.
I am ok with people not taking the vaccine, but once everyone has the opportunity to have the vaccination I'm done masking. I am not sold on their effectiveness, but I will out of respect for my neighbor wear them. There will be plenty who won't take the vaccination and will be fine without a mask and be ok with any risk from their choice, but there will be plenty of people who choose not to take the vaccination and expect everyone else to continue to social distance and wear masks just to protect them. The thought of personal responsibility to these types is taboo.
I worked in Pharma for about 14 years. It's an industry that is routinely bashed for big profits and malfeasance. The profits from any one drug can be quite high, but you need to remember that these most cover the losses from the other failures. What rarely gets reported is that most drugs take on average 10-15 years to reach approval stage from the "aha moment!" of testing something in a Petri dish. Also only 1 in 10,000 "aha's!" actually make it through approval.
So to use the car analogy that has been thrown about here, imaging if only 1 in every 10,000 designs for a new ford car or truck actually made it to the market. And those failures occur everywhere from the designers drawing CAD, initial handmade prototype vehicles, and after full manufacturing lines for that vehicle have been constructed.
No, I am not totally defending Pharma, just providing some perspective. There is no defense for companies that jack up prices randomly on a moments notice. It's also ridiculous in my opinion for things like insulin to have such huge costs as well and the science behind making it is long beyond patent life expiration.
There is a common misconception about vaccines that they PREVENT disease. That is not completely true across the board. In most cases, the goal of a vaccine is to PREVENT you from DYING from said disease. The vaccine primes your body to recognize an antigen (foreign substance) by creating circulating antibodies to activate your immune system when antibodies bind to the foreign invader.
Vaccines are not like cars that can be modulated willy nilly and tossed out into the public. Major changes to vaccines will required Ph1 - Ph3 trials which are expensive and costly. So if you are waiting for the vaccine to get "tweaked" well, you'll be waiting for a new design which will undergo new trials which will have no more experience when it gets approved by the FDA.
Lastly, for those that aren't interested in the vaccine. Have you ever been on a ventilator? I've been on one twice for cardiac surgeries. They aren't much fun. What's worse than having a tube down your throat preventing you from speaking and causing irritation when they bring you out of the coma (for me it was just sedation from surgery) is the eventual removal of the catheter. Oh yes, realize they put you in a coma when you get intubated to prevent you from ripping the tube out and taking your vocal cords out with it and give your body time to heal and shut down other major functions (digestive, urinary, etc.). So in order to keep your systems running they insert a catheter to drain your urine. Now over time, you can develop adhesions to the tubing especially for the durations that you could be looking at with COVID. The result is that should you be lucky enough to survive and get unintubaned, they'll pull the catheter out....slowly, very slowly to assure that any adhesions don't rip out your ureter with it.
Just a few things to think on. Stay safe out there.
"The vaccine primes your body to recognize an antigen (foreign substance) by creating circulating antibodies to activate your immune system when antibodies bind to the foreign invader".
This is the same thing that happens when you get Covid, but I'm willing to bet good money, you'll get more complete, and specific immune response by catching Covid, than you will by getting these vaccines.
"This is the same thing that happens when you get Covid, but I'm willing to bet good money, you'll get more complete, and specific immune response by catching Covid, than you will by getting these vaccines."
Do you have study data to support that? I've seen it supposed that the antibody response from the vaccine may last longer than getting the disease based on the rate of decline they have measured in people who had the disease. And you don't have to risk the disease to get that immunity.
One thing a lot of folks seem to overlook is that the disease we know today may not be the one we are faced with in the future. Look at the South African, UK, or Brazilian variants as mutations that have occurred over time and which have made the disease more more transmissable. One of the big benefits to acheiving herd immunity sooner than later is it reduces the disease's ability to mutate into something that is possibly more transmissable, virulent, or difficult to treat.
"One of the big benefits to acheiving herd immunity sooner than later is it reduces the disease's ability to mutate into something that is possibly more transmissable, virulent, or difficult to treat".
Ahhh, since we have the vaccine, NOW you are advocating "herd immunity"... funny how the leftist narrative has changed, lol !
So...by your logic, we should have ditched all the "Shelter in Place" mandates a year ago (for the healthy population)...and we wouldn't be in this boat right now. Sounds reasonable to me, for a disease with a 99 percent survival rate.
elkmtngear nailed it. All the Fauci fanboys & girls told us how stupid herd immunity was but now that they've allowed it MORE TIME to mutate under their tyrannical "slow the spread" lunacy, herd immunity is back in vogue. How coincidental it is happening as a new prez is seated.
"...a 100% survival rate (vaccine) with no known long-term side effects."
So you actually KNOW that everyone who takes the Chicom Flu indoctrination inoculation are going to survive and they won't have ANY long-term side effects? Please explain, NoWiser, what model of crystal ball you're using. Can we order it from Amazon?
The fear must be debilitating to let politicians make decisions for oneself to possibly gain a *possible*, <1% greater chance of survival and a *possible* decrease in long-term side effects. You are correct that speculation is worthless and this rushed vaccine's efficacy is all speculation at this point.
But the sheeple will sleep better, so there's that.
Yah, well this sheeple is 75+ and dealing with diabetes and cancer so any rude attempts at justifying why you do not just seems a bit over the edge. A good friend of mine just lost his 42-year old son to it...spouse and two pre-teens left without a dad. Have been unable to get it here and our county emergency manager just figured out last week that their portal was being hijacked by 65+ers from a nearby large city. Took them a week and some nasty calls from guys like me! Have appointments on the 16th...finally.
So the pros who say that it takes years to develop, test, and get approval for the vaccine are also saying that the one that zipped through the system in barely enough time to see what the short term affects are let alone the long ones is perfectly safe. And that’s not speculation folks.
Can you pharmaceutical folks also tell me what the vaccine means to those of us who have had the virus? Is it necessary? Will it do anything that our body hasn’t already done on it’s own from beating the bug? If one of the answers is “You only had one strain so aren’t necessarily immune to others” then I’d also ask if the instavac is protecting people from multiple strains?
My kids may receive the vaccine for covid in the future but they will not be part of any test when it is offered the first round.
I am amazed how many people disregard the unknown long term effects from this unapproved vaccine. I know 2 people that were hospitalized within 48 hours of receiving the second dose of phizer. I watched my wife’s reaction after the second dose of phizer...... no thanks. I pray I don’t get covid, but if I do I feel pretty good about the 98.7% chance I will make it.
newfi - I don't need to JUSTIFY my reasons for not getting a vaccination to you, or anyone else. I have not once told another person not to get it. My dad chose to get it and I support his decision to do so because it is HIS decision. My wife has said she won't get it and will retire rather than be forced by an employer if it comes to that - her decision and I support it. I have many friends who are getting it and many who are not. All decisions to do so are theirs to make - not mine and not yours.
The only rude people in this are you chicken littles wanting everyone to be forced to do something against their will due to your fear. Those of us who don't submit to your will are just fighting back. The harder you push, the harder we'll push back.
And since the less than 1% *possible* gain in survivability is so valuable to you, and you get the vaccine, and you are protected, why the hell do you care if I get it and die? You've ostensibly covered your ass so what I do shouldn't matter at all.
Sorry about your friend's family. Death is heartbreaking. When it is a young person it is tragic. A friend of mine's wife just died at 43 from a disease unrelated to the Chicom flu. Like MANY sick people in the last year, she had experienced a reduction in her medical services and care due to the insane, tyrannical rules that have been shoved down our throats.
Like Scrappy, I had the kung-flu in December, just in time for Christmas. Ain’t made up my mind yet whether or not to take the shots, but at this point I lean toward not. My gut tells me that next year we’ll have a new one that this vaccine won’t touch. I also don’t believe the bat was let out of the bag accidentally.
I would encourage everyone to get it. Millions of doses have been given and the safety profile is about as good as could be expected - you could give a million people a shot of water in their arm and someone's gonna croak from it.
And just death rates are not all that should be looked at - millions of people who get it and survive are having major organ damage to their lungs, hearts, livers, kidneys, and brains.
"Ahhh, since we have the vaccine, NOW you are advocating "herd immunity"... funny how the leftist narrative has changed, lol !"
You do realize that vaccination is a means of attaining herd immunity? Who am I kidding, of course you don't - because you don't seem to understand much of anything as it pertains to this whole situation.
It was mentioned in this thread somewhere by a Dr. that by getting the vaccine it will help stop the mutation of virus. Everything I have read lately stated that the vaccine doesn’t keep a person from getting the virus but just lessens the effects when you do. So if people are still getting it with the vaccine how does that lessen the chances of mutation? I don’t understand.
I also just read tonight on MSM that the CDC said that children who had the flu shot and got the virus had lessened effects than those that did not. Found that interesting.
I had it last month and it wasn’t too rough for me. I won’t be getting the shot.
Recent studies show that over 50 people in America died within a week of changing their tires this year. Take it for what it’s worth but I doubt I’ll be changing tires anytime soon until they study this more.
As pointed out correlation and causation aren’t the same thing but statistics are hard to grasp. It’s humorous to read people stating they won’t tell people to not get the shot, then continue on by ridiculing those who choose to do so lol.
400,000 deaths from covid? THAT is pure BS. They count as a "covid death" ANYONE who's died that has tested positive for covid when they died. They could have been hit by a truck or had a massive coronary.
The data is inaccurate and cooked. Take a look........
"Just an aside...deaths from people that received the vaccine, were up to 271 as of a week ago...this is all public data that can be easily researched (see link). Not sure if any other vaccines have ever had those kind of numbers. Food for thought..."
Of the ~13MM who had received the vaccine as of Feb. 1, the 271 deaths represents 0.0021%. It is telling that many of you will risk the ~1.5% death rate to avoid the 0.0021% rate that, at a maximum, could currently be attributed to the vaccine. The consistency of logic is impressive.
We also need to keep in mind that the first to be vaccinated were the elderly who are the most susceptible to both - and also the closest age class to death from other causes. It may even be that the 0.0021% doesn't differ that much from the expected death rate for that age group?
Tembry the difference is I am in control of how and where I change the tire. Vs. letting someone inject me with something that is new and un approved. I have a pretty good idea what happens when a tire blows up on you or a car falls on you but I have no clue what happens after I’m injected with a rushed vaccine for a virus that some have to be tested to even know they have. I believe the numbers are not what the experts say they are. For months people were told to stay home unless they can’t breathe. Don’t wear a mask it won’t help.... can you understand why some aren’t jumping in line ? To each there own but I don’t see enough people taking this willingly to reach herd immunity. My wife and sister both are vaccinated, my parents will be when there number is called, but I choose not to.
"It was mentioned in this thread somewhere by a Dr. that by getting the vaccine it will help stop the mutation of virus. Everything I have read lately stated that the vaccine doesn’t keep a person from getting the virus but just lessens the effects when you do. So if people are still getting it with the vaccine how does that lessen the chances of mutation?"
It hasn't been determined through clinical trial as to the degree of protection against being infected conferred by the vaccine. That doesn't mean there isn't a reduction, just that it hasn't been studied. Don't confuse that with meaning there is no benefit.
There is a small sample from Israel (way ahead of most of the world in vaccination, not peer reviewed) that show significant benefit in reducing infections:
"Maccabi Health Services, one of Israel’s four health maintenance organizations (HMOs), tracked 163,000 Israelis who had received both of the two required doses of the Pfizer vaccine; only 31 of those people tested positive for Covid-19, compared to an unvaccinated sample in which about 6,500 did."
The Pfizer vaccine is one of 2 currently available in the US.
My quip about the tires is pointing out that the tires may have not even been the cause of death. We are vaccinating our elderly and most at risk population and then floored when people in said group pass away. I’m not discrediting the fact that people can have severe reactions to vaccines. Just that the numbers in this case overwhelmingly point to the opposite.
You can’t claim Covid deaths are overinflated while at the same time believing post vaccination deaths are 100% caused by vaccination.
I believe everyone should have the right to choose whether to get the vaccine or not. I just grow tired of people who don’t have a background in medicine or statistics preaching to others and ridiculing them on a topic they aren’t even well versed to understand. Get the vaccine or don’t, I support that decision. I just have a hard time reading the non stop justification of these decisions. I’ve had covid, I’m not worried about getting it again. I’m not naive enough to claim that others shouldn’t be worried though. I’m going to get the shot as well. Cynically I think society is heading a direction that it’ll be challenging to travel without it, and the safety data doesn’t have me worried one bit about the vaccine.
Very likely air travel will require the vaccine. Our new Sec. of Transportation is exploring it at the moment. There will be people who wonder what risk an unvaccinated passenger with a mask on would pose to a plane-load of passengers who are vaccinated.
If a vaccine doesn’t prevent you from contracting a virus but just lessens the severity of symptoms and possibly keeping it from killing you... then you are still a carrier. So how can this achieve herd immunity?
It’s interesting to me that people with loads of data to support the “facts” talk about facts that contradict each other.
I don’t really need a list of data. I’ve been around the sun 56 times and I have pretty good instincts. Instincts are a fact. They ate what keeps game animals alive and also what enables me to sniff them out and kill a few each year.
So I’m with drycreek.... I had it the week of Christmas. So I’m feeling confident that I am safe for several months. And I believe there will be a new and greatly improved version next year. And I don’t want to take two versions of it.
And I also don’t believe they let the bat out of the bag by accident. Ozzy Osbourne chewed on an un refrigerated bat and he’s fine. The speech impediment is from ingesting other items. Mostly organic too.
I'm 100% pro-choice on the vaccine. Coming from a medical science education and background, I believe in vaccines when considering the totality of their effect on disease prevention across a larger population. I don't like seeing this become a pseudo-war between those who advocate for and against the vaccine. My personal thought is for you to make your (well informed) decision and I'll make mine.
I too believe that some of the things we can and can't do will possibly be affected by whether we have been vaccinated. Air travel, cross-border travel, types of employment, health insurance, admission to certain institutions....all may be linked to proof of vaccination.
I haven't yet received the vaccine. I feel younger every day as I keep being told, "You're not old enough, so stop asking." I may qualify eventually by having birthdays faster than they ship and administer vaccine.
"Get the vaccine or don’t, I support that decision. I just have a hard time reading the non stop justification of these decisions." TEmbry
Get the vaccine or don’t, I support that decision. I just have a hard time reading the non stop shaming of those that don't get it and the canceling of dissenting voices.
See how that works TEmbry? When those, whose voices are being drowned out and canceled by DC, state govt, big tech, the media, entertainers, sports figures, etc., are pushed, we will push back harder. In any way we can. I'm sorry that allowing other people to fight their own battles 'tires you'. It must be quite the burden.
I think it’s great to have options. I also think it’s awesome to see people claim things that they previously mocked others for claiming. It’s great. I also see them make claims of mutations. Totally missing reality that the vaccine may indeed force a mutation too.
It’s all argument to support their ideas. And, that’s cool. One thing that isn’t cool is how sone ideas require forcing others to conform. Or, be considered ignorant or not caring.
I got news for those folk too. I had cancer. My immune system will forever be compromised. I had Covid too. I didn’t end up on a ventilator. Or, even get sick. Just head congestion. I’m not abnormal in that. Statistics say it. That’s the norm. So, this isn’t a pandemic at this point. Not even close.
However, The rhetoric spread by some would have you believe that we are all going to die from this. I got news for you. We are all going to die. Your day and cause has already been established. So, if you feel the need to get the vaccine. Get it with everyone’s support. But, you should allow those that disagree the same in return. Without all the dramatized crap.
I got both mine, I work in ICU and have seen what covid can do, younger healthier coworkers of mine got sick and where fuct for over 2 months, these people where in their 20s, so I took my chances with the vaccine. Second shot kicked my ass a little but not enough to not go fishing!
Had the China virus twice. Both times pretty bad, about as sick as I ever want to get. Strange symptoms that came in an unpredictable sequence. First time in January 2020, last bout was December 2020. Had Covid Christmas aka no Christmas. Not sure if I will get the vaccine but I don’t want to go through that again.
No vaccine for me. I will let God decide when I live and die. Fauci is not God and Biden is a deceiver. Besides, I think I had it last February when they were impeaching Trump the first time and Fauci said we didn’t need a mask. I had a carpenter foreman come to work coughing and hacking all over the place. After about a month it had run its course thru over 100 men on my job site. I swear construction workers are some of the most resilient and toughest guys on the planet. We all just worked thru it like we would any other common cold. Since then I haven’t had so much as a sniffle.
My 81 year old mother got both of her shots. Im not sure which one. 2 of my sisters who work in long term care facilities and health care got them as well. I think it makes sense for them to get it.
I can't think of a good reason for me to get it. From what I'm hearing, its no guarantee you still can't carry and spread the virus. Also protection from the new strains apparently is minimal? I feel like I have pretty low risk from serious illness so why would I? If someone could explain to me in a calm reasonable manner why it is a good idea I would be inclined to listen. But yelling at me and telling me I just want people to die isn't going to get it done.
Read an NPR article the other day that said the pandemic was 10 times worse than we think, because the actual infection rate is 10 times higher than testing shows. Meaning tons of asymptomatic people who never got tested.
Wouldn't that actually be good news? 10 times less likely to cause death or serious illness?
Trophy Hill isn’t that the truth. I got it from a coworker.... another carpenter. They quarantined me for two weeks so I did a side job. A sidewalk for my mother. Built the forms and mixed all of the concrete by hand. Carpenters don’t have time for some virus! Lol
I’m passing on the shot - but have stated many times that if you want it - go get it. I’ve got no problem with that.
What I will have a problem with is limiting people and their travel or career because they don’t have the “vaccine”. I don’t agree with that at all. Then it’s not really a personal choice - but that seems to be the direction of the left these days - do it our way or we will ostracize and persecute you.
If the vaccine minimizes the effect of Covid - why should you care whether or not I got “vaccinated”.
trophyhill & Mule Power - same for our construction company. Everyone of them had it. They all worked through it except for 1-3 days each. Never missed a job or deadline. My wife had it and was down for about 9 or 10 days. Not sure if I had it - experienced my annual bout with bronchitis, but not as bad as years past. Mom (77 and in very poor health already) had it and was hospitalized for a week where she contracted pneumonia. In a nursing home now rehabbing. Slow progress, but progress nonetheless. Surprised she didn't succumb. Dad never had any symptoms but recently tested high for antibodies. I personally know well over a hundred people (family, church, friends, business) who have had it. Most have not been severe cases, a few were bad. No one I know has any lasting issues with the exception of my mother and she was already dealing with COPD plus other issues prior.
It isn’t about caring whether someone else gets the vaccine for a lot of people. It’s about making people do what they think is right.
If everything is as we are being told, a person deciding to not get the vaccine posses zero threat to those who do get it. That’s not enough though. It can’t be left at that. You gotta do it because it makes people feel better.
I like many here have looked death truly in the face. Down the barrel of a gun, with health, and with stupid things I’ve done but was spared. We’ve all faced it whether we know we have or not. And, should be grateful the Good Lord protected us from obvious death. As we grow older we recognize these happenings. Yet, never consider everyday things we do and the risks involved. We just assume the sun is going to rise everyday until we are tired and want no more. It isn’t going to work that way for almost everyone of us.
Yet, I see that mentality in people who insist the vaccine is the only way. My only question is where is your faith? Where is your brain? Data is telling us that mask aren’t helping. The s ientists ate telling us the vaccine isn’t going to help a lot of people. Yet, we all gotta do it.
I’m tired of being told what to do by people who could care less about me. Who act as if they are smarter then me. And, who insinuate love and compassion is their driving force behind their feelings. That’s a lie. It has to be if real world results mean anything.
I am so happy for those that want a shot, now have the ability to get one. I’m grateful for the hard work put into the whole effort. I’m just not going to put one in my body as things are now. I survived the first or second bout with ease. Might not the next. Time will tell.
Gods been good to me. And, in our talks, I’m not being urged to get it. So, no man or government is going to change that.
I've had covid as well as both moderna doses, feeling fine. I work in healthcare and it was a no-brainer for me; get it or don't get it I guess I don't care. Vaccines save lives, this is a fact, not an opinion. I don't care what your wife learned from her chiro or facebook, the science is not on the fence; it supports their use.
I'm not a big conspiracy theorist and trust the science behind it so I got it. I get that people are worried about it and would want to wait, but I had an opportunity to get mine so I did It will be a condition of employment at my hospital in the near future.
To funny “they quarantined me for 2 weeks so I went out and did a side job”.
Similarity back in August our governor of NM said I had to quarantine if I left the state and came back. Well I admit I left and scouted for elk, came home for a couple days to gather all my hunting stuff and left again.
On a side note have you heard the latest? Fauci says we must wear 3 masks and a face shield for at least another year before we achieve herd immunity. I bet he owns a company selling masks.......
You anti-vax guys are way too sensitive. I suspect 95% of people who get vaccinated couldn't possibly care less if you decide it's not for you. Grow some thicker skin. The pushback you are seeing is against bad information, it's nothing personal. Of course people are going to jump in and set things straight when arguments are made like "the vaccine will change your DNA."
No Wiser - Nice try, But you’re not even close to being accurate.
Just read some threads here. There were numerous people pro-vaccine that weren’t of the “live and let live” attitude you say 95% of them portray. It’s more like this - “You’re either part of the problem or the solution and If you don’t get vaccinated, you are part of the problem.” Doesn’t sound like they don’t care what I do. Sounds like they’ve very much got an opinion and aren’t afraid to ostracize those who don’t think like they do.
I’m on our list here but not old enough or qualifying to be in the 2nd tier, so I wait.
I as all of my immediate family had it around Christmas and I was pretty sick for 6 days where I was pretty much bed ridden and sicker than any flu I’ve ever had.
I am going to get the vaccine as soon as possible.
I would recommend that you keep the cardboard vaccination card they provide and laminate it for the upcoming time that it will be required to get on aircraft or should your employer mandate it. It’s coming as soon as there is sufficient portions of the country provided access to the vaccine.
Feels pretty stupid having to wear a cloth mask which doesn’t protect when I recently had this and cannot get it or give it to anyone.
I got the shots because I am a first responder, as well as my wife. I also had COVID last year. I don’t care if some don’t want it, I and my wife are covered, plus that third eye growing on my forehead may come in handy.
It's magic...numbers have suddenly started to drop like a stone, dropping from an all-time high...right around the time of Sleepy Joe's Inauguration! Death numbers are following almost exactly the same.
“Seasonal Flu” has hundreds of strains that they annually choose 4 to protect against that they feel are most likely to be the most prevalent here in flu season (in large part watching what’s happening currently in the Southern Hemisphere). They pick in mid summer to ramp up production. Sometimes they hit the mark, other times they don’t. Even if you catch a variation of flu not protected by the vaccine data shows the average length of sickness is a shorter duration.
Not at all relevant to the current vaccine or scenario other than both are vaccines and both are relatively low risk choices to potentially protect yourself and others.
I don’t know if I have a live and let live mentality about getting the vaccine, but I certainly don’t about the continual onslaught of misinformation. Usually from the same crowd furious with MSM about their handling of misinformation for the past few years.
Had the virus, didn't even know it accept for loss of taste and smell. Pretty much every one I know and work with has had it and only my brother inlaws father was hospitalized and he did die but at almost 90 and with allot of other conditions he was ready to go. My state has never required us to wear a mask and probably 98% of the folks I know worked this past entire year accept when the got the virus. Our schools have been open since fall. Kids are in sports, gyms are full, we don't require masks or social distancing any more. I was just at a sold out concert last week and races with full grandstands the next day, packed just like any other normal year it was nice to see and not a mask in the places. Been to benefits in town halls with hundred of folks a month ago and guess what. No super spreader stuff ever happened, in fact our state and the one beside us have the lowest covid cases and deaths in the entire country right now this week. They are saying that maybe 10X the folks had covid and were asymptomatic and were never tested. That means that this virus is even far less deadly than the 99. whatever % recovery rate suggests. They are now saying our natural immunity after having the virus will protect us for years, maybe even up to 10. I'm glad the vaccine is available as my father would probably pass away if he caught it but he'd probably pass if he caught the flu or pneumonia with his age and poor health. I just think if you want to get it go right ahead, and if you don't want it that's fine as well its a free country. Myself I feel that there is allot more behind all this than just a virus, these are troubled times we are headed in to.
I kinda hate to admit it, due to my age, but I've had shot 1 and am scheduled for #2 on Saturday. My wife got the first round as she works walk in clinic and has multiple contacts a day with Covid patients. And I was able to be close by on the last big day, and was able to grab a leftover dose that was going to be wasted if they didn't get someone in to take it.
Interesting, the vials are supposed to have 5 full doses, but most of the vials have 6 full doses, so they end up having some extra is the way I've understood it. But they have to use it quick once they've opened that vial
TEmbry- I've worked ER 14 years, urgent care 1 year, and a short stint in ICU. One season I kept track of how many of my septic patients were vaccinated, and almost all were. That kind of shoots down the garbage they preach that the vaccine reduces symptoms.
My brother and father in law currently have COVID. Brother is 46 my father in law 55. Neither one would know they had it except they lost their taste and went in for a test. My brother tested positive for the flu and COVID. What worries me about this is I think the shot will give many a false sense of security. My mother text me yesterday that she was going to come visit after she got her “get out of jail free card next week”. I asked her what that was a she said her vaccine would be at “full force”.
First shot Feb. 8, second scheduled for Mar. 8...Moderna. Folks can ignore it if they like but two people I personally know didn't make out well after contracting Covid. First was a friend and fellow elk bow hunter, age 78 and very good health. Darn near died...10 days on respirator...the doctors and nurses had him written off, but he made it. Second was my gun club president...77 and also in very good health (although I think he was a smoker) died last week.
"It's magic...numbers have suddenly started to drop like a stone, dropping from an all-time high...right around the time of Sleepy Joe's Inauguration! Death numbers are following almost exactly the same. The guy must truly have magic powers! :^D
So now you are correlating the decline following the 1/8/21 peak with Biden's inauguration and not the predicted decline following the increase in cases from Christmas and New Years (and after seeing a similar, precipitous increase and similar decline after Thanksgiving)?
I have had both of my vaccinations over a month ago without anything more than a sore spot on my arm. I do believe that choosing not to get the vaccine may negatively effect others by promoting spread among other unvaccinated and a small percentage of vaccinated persons. Every new infection is an opportunity for mutation and the more severe and longer duration of the illness increasing mutation opportunity. Mutations may then reduce immunity for vaccinated persons. I really don’t want to get in a prolonged back and forth. These are my personal beliefs and I will not advocate for forcing vaccines on anyone. I would ask everyone to read as many well designed peer reviewed studies on the subject as you can stand rather than relying on Facebook or anecdotal observations of internet contributors.
Had my first COVID-19 vaccination earlier today and I have an appointment on March 5th to receive my second dose. With that done I will now register to attend the Pope & Young Club in Reno this summer.
All I can tell you guys is that I had Covid in December, started around the 4th. and lasted for 5 weeks, worst illness I have ever had. Feel lucky to have survived it and am still working at getting my strengh and breathing back. Lost 25 lbs. which seems to be mostly muscle in my arms and legs. Drs. say that I don't qualify for the vaccine for 3-4 months due to having to much anti-bodies now. Haven't made up my mind if I will get it when I qualify.
Does anyone even look at the stuff thats in the vaccine before they lift there shirt up and take the juice into there body? There must be a lot of people that think the government is going to save them and take care of all there health needs with a vaccine shot.
"Does anyone even look at the stuff thats in the vaccine before they lift there shirt up and take the juice into there body? There must be a lot of people that think the government is going to save them and take care of all there health needs with a vaccine shot."
Do you? Which ingredient has you concerned? What is your specific basis for that concern? Why do you have such concerns when the vast majority of the medically trained don't? And what is it that you know the FDA doesn't?
Or is this just another attempt to reinforce an uninformed opinion?
"Or is this just another attempt to reinforce an uninformed opinion?"
Matt is spot on. Those spewing misinformation and paranoia, not so much. There are risks to getting the vaccine (real ones, not the ridiculous BS being thrown around on the internet) and risks to not getting the vaccine. You should get informed and make an informed decision based on the balance of each of those risks. Put another way, you can put a substance developed by scientists in a lab in your body, or get something in your body that was made from soup of dead bat in a totally uncontrolled and dirty environment. Also, for those worried about the longterm effects of the vaccine, how do they compare with the longterm effects of covid? Not many are talking about longterm effects of covid (compared to the vaccine for it), which may be a thing (or may not). Hard to come up with an informed answer to that one, but I'm confident in which one to bet on in terms of worse outcome (hint- see bat soup question above).
I was having a conversation with my wife a year ago about the covid virus and what wasn't known. I told her my biggest concern wasn't dying from the virus. My biggest concern was the potential for long-term health effects. Blood clotting disorders, pulmonary damage, myocarditis, and other very serious secondary effects have been associated with covid infections. When new viruses show up, we simply don't know what things they may cause downstream. I'm not a catastrophist with my thinking....more of a cautious realist. I still think of this virus as something akin to Audrey the plant. We may think we understand it, but it's basically a spanking-new pathogen with only 1+ year of human interaction. We really have no way of knowing the future, and whether (or not) this virus is as simple as we hope it to be.
How long did it take to develop the vaccine? How long did it take to develop other vaccines? We can use the polio vaccine as an example. What was the process? Why should I trust that this vaccine even works? Because a guy like Fauci says so? Where’s the proof that this vaccine even works long term or at all? How does the vaccine work? How does it protect you? What are the short term side effects? What are the long term side effects! Are Americans “free” to make their own decision on this? Also there shouldn’t be anyone who is not at risk standing at the front of the line. I think we all know who is at risk.
Everyone has different circumstances. I’m not high risk. No respiratory conditions or other pre existing conditions. Also I’ve already had the virus although I don’t believe it was the severe strain.
So I feel semi safe for now. I agree that in a year, or by the end of this year there will be a new and greatly improved vaccine. Maybe much sooner actually. So in my situation I think it’s ok to wait. I’m last on the list anyway and to my understanding I can’t get the vaccine for 90 days after testing positive.
I’m actually glad I had it because I intended to wait. We know so little about the virus or the vaccine. Obviously we know nothing about the long term affects of either. This article would suggest that people getting the vaccine right now will be back in line before too long. Quite possibly the back of the line.
Patience is always a good thing. Why run down the hill and jump on one of those cows when you can walk down there and have all of them said the wise old bull. I lost a very good friend this past year. I have another in the hospital on oxygen right now. So I definitely take it seriously. But I also take seriously putting things into my body. I take very little drugs whether prescription or otc. None long term.
Some people have a pill box so they can prefill each section with 10 pills a day. Some are obviously necessary but many are not. To each his own but that’s not my cup of tea.
Having had both Covid and the shots, I wear a neck gaiter when in a store and that’s it. I am a first responder and when the medical examiner had what was left of a guy who bailed into a guardrail at 80 mph sent to a hospital to get tested for Covid, we, as a department lost respect for the system and its accountability. I used a shovel to put his brains and coagulated blood into the body bag. The two nursing homes I play music for have not recorded a single flu fatality this fall and winter, it’s a miracle. It’s a virus, so tiny that you need an electron microscope to analyze it effectively. I read that 97% of those contracting Covid wore masks. I was one of them. A wonderful placebo in the long run. Definitely not the cure, immunity is.
I haven't gotten mine yet, just not my turn. I don't have a problem with anyone making a choice whether to get it or not. It is funny seeing some comments on this thread that are grabbed off the internet without knowing any science behind it. I understand the reservations about putting something foreign like that into your body, it doesn't sit well with me from that standpoint as well. Hell, some people complain about the vaccine since they don't want to put that into their bodies, but they eat like crap, smoke, and drink excessively. I wonder how the comments would be if a pandemic occurred where getting the disease had a low survival rate.
I also try to think of things differently. Just like bowhunting from the 1950's-1960's to present day, technology advances have come a long way and we have that many more years of knowledge (and scientific study with viruses and how vaccines work). So knowledge of how viruses work and how vaccines are developed have come a long way and is likely a major factor that a vaccine was developed faster and to some point approved faster.
I don't see this being required, just like no other shots are required.
But having or not having it will trigger other things: - Can you travel? Will other countries let you in? Will our country let you back in? - will events/places require it? Also will it simply make your life easier if you have it now? WY has now said if you have the shots and long enough for them to be fully functional (it's not instant), then there's no reason to wear a mask in public. Hell even CDC is saying that, but they are asking you to consider wearing one to support those who still have to (sorry, not my problem).
There's a few place, IMO, you should NOT use for info on this: - media - internet, including youtube Go to the CDC site, find someone in this field. Pick their brain, talk to your doctor. Yes there are unknowns, there always are. For my wife and I, we will get it when we can. Our son is a viral biologist and does testing including on mRNA things. He understands it (though i can't even understand his explanations), he said "Mom, Dad, just get the shots). If I can't trust my son who is educated and does this for a living, why would I trust some random internet or media person?
If you do your research, including what restrictions you may or may not have based on your vaccination status, make your decision. That's your right.
My 70-something yr old Coastie buddy finally got both of his shots at Patrick AFB. He just told me a bit ago this morning his wife finally got a shot appt at a Publix grocery store in St Augustine, FL. They live in Melbourne about 143 miles to the south. He texted me at 6-something this morning they have been logged on to the Publix site since 0500 trying to register for an appt and they finally got in. This has been going on for a couple of weeks.
How long did it take to develop the vaccine? Less than a year for the final product, but the technology and initial work in developing the vaccine(s) was in the works for a long time.
How long did it take to develop other vaccines? Much longer- science and understanding of vaccines/viruses have changed dramatically as we know more. Using polio as an example is kinda like describing how Henry Ford made a vehicle vs. how they are made now...
What was the process? The process is well documented- look it up, educate yourself.
Why should I trust that this vaccine even works? I think it's pretty clear you're not going to, not matter how well supported the vaccine and the science behind it is.
Because a guy like Fauci says so? Obviously not- he's just a spokesperson. Again, educate yourself!
Where’s the proof that this vaccine even works long term or at all? "Proof" is an interesting word. Things we have "proven" in the past sometimes turn out to be incorrect or at least not complete. There is clear support for the effectiveness of the vaccine(s). If you choose not to believe that because of paranoid ramblings you read o the internet, that's your choice.
How does the vaccine work? Again, this is well documented. Educate yourself! There are three primary mechanisms of action- look them up.
How does it protect you? See the link- it's a reasonable summary of some basic info regarding the vaccine(s).
What are the short term side effects? This is pretty well characterized at this point. Look them up.
What are the long term side effects! There's no way to know this. See my post (and Kevin Dill's post) above. This concern/question should be balanced against what the long term impact of getting covid might be (which also can't be known at this point).
Are Americans “free” to make their own decision on this? Ummm... yes.
Trophyhill - started in 03 with the original SARS virus. I was also being worked on for other conditions such as cancer. Finally in 17 there was a workable mRNA system but SARS the original and MERS (kissing cousin) were so confined that there were not big pushes to move it forward and other conditions where similar technology may work were not ready yet.
So. If you want to to know how "old" the technology is, one could very reasonably make the case that it's 15-17 years old - which is why, once research had the virus's structural make up, they could rather quickly create the part (spike protein) they wanted to use to fight this, and go to phase 1 trials.
Now, if that general history of mRNA vaccine strategies for coronavirus's feels like it doesnt apply because this one is like 8 months old or what not.
Consider that it was used on tends of thousands in testing and went very well... And has now been used in millions. One interesting point is that as the total numbers have gone up, one area people were concerned about (anaphylaxis) has actually been found to be occurring at a slightly lower rate than the clinical trials found.
So, while the Warp Speed process smoothed out the process and allowed a more rapid succession between trial phases, it didnt reduce oversight for safety/efficacy. It was a solid get vax's developed process - and it build on around a decade and a half of mRNA vaccine research focused on very similar virus's.
Others have noted this, but if "long term effects" of the vax create fear, you should discuss the actual long term side effects of even modest SARS-CoV2-2019 infection with medical providers dealing with it every day. To describe the long term risk of COVID19 as massively worse than anything the vax has even created the slightest sniff of at this point would be an understatement.
The hardest thing is that for many the illness is not a super big deal, and it's easy to see or hear a few stories like that or experience it ourselves and then assume that's reality. In reality, that thinking pattern is a logical fallacy. It's a significant illness for a LOT of folks.
The issue is not so much how the vaccine was developed, but the time frame in which it was implemented. It’s somewhat disingenuous to compare this vaccine with polio. It’s the fact that there have been ZERO long term studies to the efficacy and side effects. We are the clinical and trials. The same medical professionals that have stood behind years of testing, multiple clinical, ph1-ph3 trials are now the same ones that assure us the vaccine is safe without any of the previously mandated testing required. THAT’S the issue.
I sure as hell am not an anti-vaxxer. Kids all had their shots. But I did work with pharma in new drugs and their delivery systems and and what is required to move from each stage of clinicals to ultimate use. That hasn’t happened with these vaccines.
I'm enjoying all the red herrings being promulgated by the pro-vax crowd about how the anti-vax crowd is promulgating red herrings. Like in every polarizing issue, the extremists on either side think they will "win" by shouting louder and longer.
I'm not anti-vax. I'm anti-Chicom Flu Indoctrination Inoculation (for myself) due to: the incredibly high survival rate, the FACT that "knowledge" about the Chicom Flu changes frequently as shared by the "experts", the medical community being divided on treatment AND the dissenting voices being silenced by the powerbrokers, the powerbrokers being unified in telling us what to do and finally a complete distrust of the powerbrokers and their motives.
Half of the posters to this thread are fully accepting of being told what to do by a laundry list of entities that have proven they want you to have fewer rights, liberties and freedoms. I'm not nearly as willing as most "...to give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety..." and have little respect for those trying to force me into that mindset.
The two mask thing is to force more vaccinations. They are hoping people will get frustrated not being able to breath wearing two masks and will either stay home or get vaccinated. People cannot even see how they are being manipulated.
This one is not clear cut. Will you get C19? Most likely you will be exposed, eventually. Will it kill you? Statistically, most likely not Will you feel like you have a bad cold/flu? Possible as many have shown, heck my own dad, other than being extremely tired, felt ok and beat it in 5 days. Will it have long lasting effects? Maybe, it has for some and it's unpredictable who it hits how. So there's alot of unknown, but data/stats on how bad it will be for you and those you may infect. You get to decide how dangerous this is for you and if you are comfortable with that risk.
balance that against the vaccine. - Does it "cure" C19? Not always, but 95+% effective - Effective can range from "less severe" to "don't get it" - Long term effects? Unknown - Is it safe? Yes, at least as safe as other vaccines
Wonder of the USA, you get to pick which scenario you want.
I'll wear two masks when Prez Biden can string together two thoughts. IMO.....said it before and I'll say it again.....a mask alone is not the answer. There's been too many dedicated mask wearers who got the virus via other pathways. A mask gives a false since of security and invincibility.
Show your work GG. You're simply claiming your red herrings are better red herrings than the red herrings of those with whom you typically disagree. Most of those defending Trump for getting behind the Warp Speed program had to defend him from the likes of you for hating on him for "not doing enough" and "killing people" with his policies.
I actually didn't give two sh!ts about the warp speed program for a vaccine that will save a miniscule amount of people, relatively speaking. If we all cared about health so much, there would be a complete ban on ALL smoking, ALL alcohol, ALL processed foods with sugar, ALL vehicular traffic over (XX?) MPH, ALL face-to-face gatherings without FULL PPE.
This is one minor issue compared to the hundreds of thousands of deaths that occur from preventable causes on an annual basis - if we only asked Big Brother to control our behavior just a little more, and a little bit more, and a little bit more, etc.
So, now the cat is out of the bag on Cuomo lying through his teeth about the nursing home death toll. Equally as bad, is the MSM knowingly helped him dupe his loyal herd of gullible sheep. At this point, even if someone claimed to have accurate data, how can anyone trust it? Remember...never let a good crisis go to waste.
midwest - getting the vaccine won't make you a libtard. Agreeing with and advocating for the policies and regulations being proposed and discussed making travel, employment, patronage, benefits, etc. unavailable to those who don't get the Chicom Flu Indoctrination Inoculation makes you a libtard.
"Agreeing with and advocating for the policies and regulations being proposed and discussed making travel, employment, patronage, benefits, etc. unavailable to those who don't get the Chicom Flu Indoctrination Inoculation makes you a libtard."
Thankfully, I don't see anyone here on this thread doing that.
Praising trump for streamlining the process and willingness to take it are unrelated for many. A lot of people trust that he did what he can but a lot of people don’t trust bureaucracy of any kind. Completely understandable.
For historical context....Prez Trump dealing with this virus is similar to Prez Bush dealing with 9/11. Both events came out of nowhere and forced the govt to be creative in a rapid fashion. IMO you have to give credit to both Prez's Trump and Bush for being confronted by these tragedies on their watch and moving the country forward.
Ones own healthcare is no ones business. I dont understand people wanting to let others know they are vaccinated or not. It's no ones business. I work in healthcare. Shared decision making and informed consent is key...I would not be the first in line to get the vaccine at this time and I would fight any mandates that you "have to" have it tooth and nail. I would think twice about kids getting it and especially young women. Young people don't die from the CCP virus.
SJJ....a hypothetical of sorts that I could see becoming a possibility.
If a person chooses not to get the vaccine, then becomes infected and infects someone else that results in the death of that 2nd person.....is that 1st person who intentionally refused to get the vaccine have any legal culpability in the death of the 2nd person?
It’s becoming ever more apparent that the America I grew up in, ain’t the same one some of you grew up in.
This is not a pandemic in anyway unless you make it out to be one by speculation. But, we have to consider reality as we know it now. And, that doesn’t involve sacrifices to make other feel better by force. If this things grows to that, we can all have a civilized talk about it then. But, we ain’t even close to that.
It keeps getting said to follow the science. Well, that’s the science of it. A survival rate so high we have to speculate on the true numbers because so many people have had it and didn’t even know to test for it. That’s not a pandemic. Yet, we keep getting told to follow the science. Well, that’s what I’m doing. Speculation isn’t proven.
Anyways, I really never thought I’d see the day where it was considered that people might be Liable for failing to to take a shot for something that is currently so non lethal. Yeah boy, hire a lawyer and try to push that through civil court. See how that goes for you. I’m betting the Corona virus will become your last worry at that point.
There is already precedent in a slightly different case. You can do a Google and see folks who intentionally infected someone with the AIDS virus were held liable. I can see the family of someone who was infected with the corona virus and died as the result of another infected individual who refused to get vaccinated ending up in court.
There are already circumstances (laws) where vaccinations can be mandatory. Kids going to school is one example.
They have tried to make vaccines for the other "Cornavirus" family members including SARS, which has a 79% genome sequence identity with COVID-19, in the past. They have had the same problem with all of them, which prevented them from making it to the human trials. The problem occurred during animal testing, which was bypassed by the emergency authorization act by the FDA. After the animals were vaccinated with the 2 dose vaccines, they were allowed to naturally be infected with the virus in the wild. A large majority of the animals would have a hyper-immune response and would die. I'm not a doctor, but I will not be taking the vaccine! As stated above, they define a COVID death as anyone who dies from anything and tests positive. Pretty funny how they have known for many months that the PCR (polymerase chain reaction) tests being used cause massive false positives. Even the inventor of the test stated that the test should not be used for this. The test causes the amount of virus DNA from the sample to be exponentially increased with every "cycle". They have been completing around 35 cycles for the tests, which amplifies the amount of virus DNA so much that it causes a false positive. The test also considers any "Coronavirus" family DNA as a positive, which some common colds or flu strains, will produce. Amazing why the flu is non-existent this year, and COVID cases spiked at the same time the annual flu occurs! For what it is worth, even WHO states that the PCR tests cause upwards of 90% false positive results. If COVID deaths are considered to be a death by any cause as long as the person tests positive, and the false positives are even near 50%, then the actual morbidity rate of this Plandemic is far less than the normal flu! It always has been and always will be about the money and control. These people are sociopaths with no moral conscience and have a never ending thirst for power! Do your own research, but as I said before, NO WAY!
I am in agreement with grape. We have a place in Newfy. My fondest wish would be if we were able to get there but not allowed to return. The last time we crossed into Maine a young border agent gave us a wicked hard time and told us that he could prevent us from entering. I told him that nothing would make me happier. The little bastard let us through. I had the whole asylum thing all worked out in my head to present to the Canadian government.
And to think the anti-vax movement has been broadened beyond the most elite of California's liberal elite, the Amish, and Christian Scientists (oh, and people who put more faith in Facebook than their primary care physician).
If the vaccine ends up working well its a game changer for future vaccines and recipients can say they were part of the first successful mRNA vaccine. Around the world there are other types being used.
Too funny. “Anti-vax” speaking solely for myself, I call it.......now listen very closely for those who don’t mind losing liberty and freedom 1 piece at a time, I call it “pro-freedom”. You want to get the vax? Go for it. I love when guys try to vilify others who don’t agree with losing their personal freedoms.
Huntforever much of the information you have provided is not accurate. I have looked all over for a WHO statement reporting that PCR testing results in 90% false positives. If you have a link or reliable source I would like to see it. Amplification of PCR tests is a normal part of the testing procedure. Each test has a threshold level where the test is considered positive after a specific number of amplification cycles. Cycles are not continued after that number to create a positive result. In order for a test to be approved by the FDA it must show that it does not have cross sensitivity with 20 common respiratory illnesses including colds and other corona viruses. The tests are highly accurate and the most common reason for a false positive is failure by a lab to not strictly adhere to testing procedures. It does happen but I do not believe it is common.
Jerry - correct. The post you reference is so full of information that is not correct it's incredible.
Please do not trust social media stuff for information - I realize that's odd as I type it into a social media platform. Seriously though, the level of pseudoscience sometimes dropped out there is astonishing.
I did not realize there is still so much bad and blatantly incorrect info out there.
I have met employees of clients who later died of COVID-19. I have also met those who were quite ill and others who had the meh... nothing burger reaction. This is real but the individual response is quite variable. I wish I could get the shot but the govt. doesn't have me on the preference list even though I was an essential worker early on with a primary focus of providing health and safety or industrial hygiene consulting.
That said, the COVID-19 vaccine which is mRNA based not DNA based is new but the building blocks for it started with other SARS outbreaks. No you can't get COIVD-19 from the vaccine, its not alive, never been alive just a key for you body to know when COVID-19 comes a calling. (e.g. Knock Knock, Who's there?, COVID-19, Sorry we gave at the office... those two big white corpuscles behind you can help you off the property).
I sat in on a webinar hosted by Los Alamos lab about a month ago with a lot of other safety professionals. An interesting presentation that even in that environment there are still COVID-19 deniers and highly technical people who don't get it. One of the things mentioned was in the trials of the vaccine out of the thousands upon thousands of test subjects only 1 (one) uno, einse, ichi, I, ONE person caught COVID-19 that required any level of critical care. Thats right only ONE out of thousands upon thousands vaccinated was unprotected. Go enough for me I will get the shots.
"Too funny. “Anti-vax” speaking solely for myself, I call it.......now listen very closely for those who don’t mind losing liberty and freedom 1 piece at a time, I call it “pro-freedom”. You want to get the vax? Go for it. I love when guys try to vilify others who don’t agree with losing their personal freedoms."
Too funny indeed. The grand irony here is that the loss of liberty and freedom due to COVID restrictions is what many guys were bitching about at the onset of the pandemic. Now that there is a tool to reverse those losses, they are bitching about it for the same reason.
Also, trophy, I whole heartedly support your ability to choose whether to get the vaccine or not. I have several friends choosing to not get it and I support their choice, in large part because they offer reasonable reasons to not get it. I choose differently than them, but I couldn't support them and their choice any more than I do. However, the rationale you provide above as to why you choose to not get it is filled with misinformation and a clear lack of understanding. If you had a valid reason to not get vaccinated that was based in accurate, rational info your case to not get it would be a whole lot more defensible. In the end it's also your choice to not get informed and still make the decision for yourself. I hope that ends up being a good decision for you (and I truly mean that).
SILENCE Glunt! Listen to your government. They know what's best for you. They are always truthful and they'd NEVER lie. Dr. Fauxie even says so. They're our shepherds and we're the sheep......baaaaa........
I've had covid and unfortunately most of my family has. It wasn't bad on me but was for a few of the older members who got it. I'm not gonna take the vaccine but have several members of my family who will. Do what's best for you. My good friends dad and mom got their second shot two weeks ago and now he's in the ICU and they wanted to intubate him today but he refused. He's 80 and a tough old farmer so hopefully he can whoop it. They told him that it took the vaccine several weeks to actually start working
If the virus is passed by contact, what else BESIDES shutting down is going to slow the spread? Too many people are too bleeping stupid to do the smart thing _voluntarily_.
I mentioned 'population density' earlier. It's not coincidence that the most densely populated areas have the highest rates of infection, but people will STILL ride public transportation and gather too closely.
I used the example of Wyoming vs. 'Worcester County, Massachusetts' which is extreme, but it illustrates how unevenly population is distributed across the country. (Wyoming has 3/4 of the people of WCMa but 62 times the area.)
I think we can agree that methods that are helpful in one place don't make sense everywhere. (And I'll deal with the situation *here* tyvm.)
" And that isn’t internet misinformation folks..... "
It's 'anecdotal'. In statistical speak, it's ONE data point. Without the particulars of the case it would be useless to draw conclusions from it. As so many have pointed out above, getting the shots does not give you 'instant Teflon' protection from catching the virus. I'm getting the shots and then I'm still gonna avoid the heck out of crowds for another two months.
So what is your point, Mule? Do you think my buddy reporting his grandpa died from covid is internet misinformation? He's reported it here on this site-- must be gov made up bs, huh? As I said above, there are risks associated with getting the virus and risks associated with getting the vaccine. Because someone had problems associated with getting the vaccine (btw RMs report doesn't tell us the reason he's in the hospital- could be pneumonia/something else and unrelated, if course it might not be too) doesn't mean the vaccine is a joke/mistake/hoax. Kinda like if the numbers were inflated (which they clearly have been) the virus isn't fictitious. If NASA misrepresented one thing about the moon landing would you conclude man has never been on the moon?
Arguing from the standpoint of a conspiracy theorist makes people sound a lot like the folks who claim the holocaust never happened, we've never been on the moon, and the earth is flat. Because numbers have been inflated doesn't discount everything and make covid a conspiracy.
Get informed and educated about the risks of the virus and the vaccine. Once informed, made a decision about the balance of risks.
Colorado opened up to people over 65 on Feb 8. My wife and I got our first Pfizer shot yesterday, and scheduled for the second in 3 weeks. Only mild soreness in the arm for both of us. One step closer to getting through this.
I'm in Pennsylvania. Signed up for the Vaccine when my county first opened appointments. I am over 65 w/qualifying Medical issues. As of Friday I have 'ONLY' 35,000 people in front of me. As the County is giving 1000 + or - shots a week best case scenario is June at the earliest, but more likely August. So I'm making the assumption at that point all of these discussions will possibly be moot.
So my philosophy is to go on with my Life. Wife & I are heading to Florida for a couple of weeks to do some Fishing, enjoy the warm sunshine, & partake of the Floridian hospitality.
I’m not speaking for Mule. Only saying what is obvious to me.
His point is he had the virus. It was for him like it was/has been for roughly 90% of the people who has had it. Very mild. His point is he also knows the virus is deadly for such a small portion, way less then 1% of the people who get it, that he doesn’t prioritize getting the vaccine. He isn’t knocking you for getting it. And, he’s trying to point out that there are many unknowns. And, That the effectiveness isn’t known.
Basically, he is saying everything being stated by the same science you fellas are picking and choosing your points to further your position. The difference is, he isn’t picking and choosing his truths. He taking everything for face value and developing an approach he’s comfortable with.
That’s something not shared by a bunch on this thread. So, if it’s not you, don’t get defensive. If it is you, It’s like you can’t grasp someone not seeing it the same way. Even though there is enough SCIENCE available to suggest it’s a warrantied approach.
That’s what I read from him and everyone else sharing his position. It’s not based on fear, conspiracy theory, or anything other then results. So, Saying differently doesn’t make it so.
Scoot exact opposite. I think it’s 100% fact. We all know that there are a number of people who have gotten the flu immediately after being vaccinated. But the flu is the flu. Covid is more lethal to high risk people so that makes me nervous. Prayers to your buddy’s dad.
"Get informed and educated about the risks of the virus and the vaccine. Once informed, made a decision about the balance of risks."
So......what you're saying is we need to wait several years until long term clinicals and trials are in place? Because right now, there are NONE. We have a flu that we have known about for a year, a vaccine, substantially less than that. Mike in Ct (and he works in the field) had mentioned that he didn't think a vaccine would be available for ~2 years and that would be fast tracked. Again, there are no long term studies that show either the effectiveness nor the side effects. THAT is my issue. Period. There is NO long term information to make an informed opinion. And just because the government says this fast tracked vaccine is OK, doesn't make it so. In the not so distant past this is the same government that conducted STD studies on blacks, and LSD studies by the CIA with an untold number of deaths and destroyed lives.
How many of you when your favorite truck brand releases a brand spanking new generation, new engine, transmission, electronics, etc, say I'm gonna wait a few years till all the bugs get worked out before I drop some $$. But a new vaccine, relativley untested, lined up to get it and mock those that question the validity of how it was rushed thru.
FTR, my kids have had all their shots, my grandkids, I get tetnaus boosters when required. I don't get the flu shot. It typically is a crap shoot as to which flu hits (apparently all other flu strains are extinct) and it's typically only 40-50% effective. Plus the last two times my wife got it, she was hammered hard, laid up two weeks, with the flu. Vaccines fault? Her own body's reaction? Just a freak occurence? Who knows... Not opposed to the standard flu vaccine, just not getting it. And apparently there have been no cases or deaths attributed to the "old" flu.
I'm in Pennsylvania. Signed up for the Vaccine when my county first opened appointments. I am over 65 w/qualifying Medical issues. As of Friday I have 'ONLY' 30,000 people in front of me. As the County is giving 1000 + or - shots a week best case scenario is June at the earliest, but more likely August. So I'm making the assumption at that point all of these discussions will possibly be moot.
So my philosophy is to go on with my Life. Wife & I are heading to Florida for a couple of weeks to do some Fishing, enjoy the warm sunshine, & partake of the Floridian hospitality.
And the red herrings continue to get get tossed out by those that believe the govt, Big Tech, Big Pharma and the rest of the powerbrokers care about health or individuals.
The ONLY thing that matters is whether or not an individual, American Citizen, wants to get the vaccine or not. My agreement with your reasons isn't necessary. Your agreement for my reasons isn't necessary. If you don't advocate for my choice to be invalid, we're good. If you do, you'll be high on the list when the fecal matter hits the oscillating device - you have proven that you do not care about individual rights, freedoms and liberties as much as you care about your safety and compliance with Big Brother.
Bake - your meme is insensitive and demeaning to those for whom truth and common sense is a trigger. Shame!
Re Bowfreak - "DanaC, The problem is that the lockdowns really did nothing to slow the virus. "
I think that depends, again, on where you are, population density etc. In 'thin' areas it probably doesn't matter. If it had been pushed *harder* *sooner* in densely populated areas, who knows? It seems to be helping in other countries, although I haven't really studied it hard. (They do seem to *enforce* it harder.)
As predicted by all the mask experts the flu is way down. Due to masks and people staying away from social gatherings gs and such. But, Covid has sky rocketed due to people not wearing masks or family gatherings for the holidays. Who’d thunk it right?
One thing is for sure, we can’t win against this Covid. We can beat the flu bug though.
I’m an emergency department nurse in MI. Got both my moderna vaccines and was sick after both, although the second one was far worse. If I hadn’t been involved in healthcare there is no way I’d have gotten the vaccine as I’m young and healthy.
I ain't never needed a fire extinguisher or smoke alarm so I ain't putting those in my home and you sure can't make me. Now replace safety devices with vaccine. My buddy bragged how ne never got the flu shot and how he knows a friend of a friend that got the flu same week as the shot. Well, vaccines take time and the flu shot takes time. Anyway, my buddy got knocked on his rear by the flu in spring 2020. He was sure he had the Rona but twas not. He sort of changed his mind about his bullet-proofness and need for an extra large pouch on the front of his underwear. Survivor bias is the well-known scenario where a few people are no worse for wear by not going to the dentist or they smoke two packs a day or avoid flu shots. Back in WW11, the reporter was interviewing a squad that rotated back from the front lines and one soldier was telling how he had guys killed at his side in firefights and he was protected and going to make it home without a scratch. Call me Lucky, he said. Same squad rotated back to the lines and then back to the rear and the reporter asked about Lucky. Sniper shot to the head. I appreciate all the smokers and folks that avoid brushing their teeth and avoid seatbelts, etc and confidently declare they are just a different breed immune to what ails the weak and prissy. Why? Improves my odds for getting full Social Security payments for a bit longer.
At 61 I had a case of full blown Covid back in November, which ruined my deer season. I travel a 6 state area for my job, so do plan on getting a vaccine. However, I got two potential int'l trips planned. June to Canada, August to China. These countries could change their entry policies several times before these dates, so I'll wait until the last week or two in case either has some short time requirement for vaccine. That's my plan anyway.
Started having cold like symptoms last Thursday Feb 11th while at work, sneezing mainly at first, then coughing/stuffy head, etc... Had Friday and Saturday off and didn't feel good Friday and slept most of Saturday but thought it was just a cold coming on, so didn't have a fever and went back to work on Sunday morning but couldn't hack it and went home sick after two hours... By Monday was deathly ill so work requested me to Covid test before returning,,, I tested positive and am quarantined... I'm 61 and it may be due to my age but I had a real hard time with it,,, been a rough week... Doing a little better today, good enough to finally get on the internet...
I shifted ops to the Southern Command Center Friday/Saturday. This morning I walked into the local VA clinic to make sure my info in MI transferred to FL in the VA system. They were giving shots when I was there so it was crowded. I spoke to the lady and she confirmed my info transferred. I told her I'll take any cancellation appts and she took my cell number. Less than 10 minutes later, she called my cell and said be there at 0830 tomorrow for the 1st shot. She said someone cx'd and I just happened to be there...timing is everything. I did learn the VA Dept has their own police dept. They were there as security with a VA police vehicle. Never knew the VA had a police force.
Both moderna shots done due to the nature of of my job, 2nd was back on Feb.4. It doesn't make me immune, and If I contract it I can still pass it along. If I do catch the virus and it keeps me off a ventilator then I guess it will be worth it. Second dose put me down for a day like a lot of others.
I had Covid last November. It took my strength for a month. I got my first shot on the 17th. I was told when I got the shot that my body would probably recognize the vaccine and would likely react more quickly and strongly. I developed a bad headache that afternoon. The next day I had bad body aches, chills, some nausea and just generally felt bad. Everything but the headache went away after a few hours and slowing got better over a coupe of days.. I am getting my second shot on March 15th. I will see how that goes.
I did get the 1st Moderna shot early this morning at the VA clinic. Ten and a half hours later, the arm is a little sore and I was a little tired this afternoon, but that is it...so far. I took a little snooze and feel ok right now. Getting ready to go get some medicinal ice cream at DQ in a bit to sooth any current pain and mitigate any future pains. :-) If things don't go south tonight....it will all be good. Will report back tomorrow.
The messaging on the vaccine from Fauci has been very confusing lately. When all the "lockdowns" started it was just for a couple weeks, and to slow the spread. As the lockdowns continued our next glimmer of hope for returning to normal life was herd immunity, when enough Americans either got Covid or the vaccine. Back then he thought 65-70 percent needed to be vaccinated or already caught covid to to reach herd immunity.
The vaccines are created and start to be distributed. Within a week he is telling us we have to be worried about variants, but we always knew there would be variants. I remember him talking about it on TV. It is natural for virus to mutate as it goes through the population. Sometimes the variants may spread easier, but the mutated variants generally cause less severe illness. He also no longer speaks of the people that have had covid when talking about herd immunity. Every time I here him on TV now it is based off up to 90 percent of the population getting the vaccine(the number varies between 75-90), nothing about everyone that has caught covid.
A month or two back he said kids should be in school, teachers don't need to be vaccinated. That should be the "default posistion". The last week or so when I see him on TV he says its a very complicated subject and he doesn't have all the data yet.
A news anchor asked him if now that her parents got vaccinated, can they come visit the grandchildren. He said no that wouldn't be a good Idea. Also just because you got vaccinated, it doesn't mean you can start going out to restaurants and theaters.
In that same interview he mentioned he believed around July everyone that wanted the vaccine would be able to get it. In the end of the interview she asked when life could be normal again. He just kind of laughed. He said he still thought social distancing and masked would be required in 2022. If everyone that wants the vaccine got it why would we be wearing masks and social distancing still?
I was reading the information about vaccines on the CDC website, and this is all baffling to me. What I read there seems to contradict what he has been saying lately about how to live your life after being vaccinated. We need to get the vaccine so we don't get sick and spread the virus, but if you get the vaccine you can still get sick and spread the virus.
My wife is in health care so she got both vaccine shots over the last month. She just got sick for one day after the second shot. I'm all for getting it as soon as I can. Im not in a high risk group but have family that is. I would love for them and me to get it so we aren't worried about seeing each other.
Sorry for the long post, just really baffled after the TV interviews he has done the last week or two. Seem's as though he is saying that being vaccinated doesn't mean your life is normal again. You still have to mask up and socially distance. You can still catch virus and spread virus. If we were all vaccinated we could all still catch and spread virus then correct?
I'm not trying to stir the pot. I know there are several people with medical backgrounds that post on here. Just wondering if any of this makes sense. What he is saying on TV doesn't even seem to jive with the CDC website info about how vaccinations work.