I'm looking forward to getting mine. As soon as my turn is up, ill be going in.
Government $$ are da best. Anyhow.... I worked with big pharma for awhile, developing assembly solutions for drug delivery systems. Time to delivery for new drugs/vaccines is typically in the 5-10 year range. This was done in under a year. My understanding (and please someone correct me if I'm wrong) is that instead of a normal "killed" virus vaccine, a genetically modified virus was used to develope the vaccine. The reason being, it's cheaper and faster. Well, in the machine/automation world there is an axiom whereby there are three outcomes available. Good, fast and cheap. Of those three, you can have two. Hence, if it's fast and cheap, guesss what it ain't.
There are has been no long term study as to the efficacy (which we have seen dropping), no long term study on side effects.... No thanks. I'll wait until it's been proven 45-50% effective like other flu vaccines and then pass on it as well.
My wife finished her 2nd round a couple weeks ago. I've enjoyed the better 5G reception for my cell phone. I'll be towards the back of the vaccination line, but you'd better believe I'll get the shot as soon as I can. I'm holding out hope that maybe we'll be allowed to go to Canada fishing late this summer with record of a vaccination.
Won't be surprised if they start trying to force us to take it. No problem with anyone that wants one. Never had a flu shot, never needed one. Don't need this one. Like Bowbender said, not nearly enough testing.
Its all to make sure everyone wears a mask for the rest of their life. You've been vaccinate, but can spread the disease. Wear your mask like a good soldier.
No, Government mandates did that. The virus alone would have affected the economy, but not like this. We could have skipped ruining the economy, some places did. Your take on the vaccine makes sense to me.
Did he suffer from a serious form of the disease or die from it? If so, he would be in the 5-6%. If not, the vaccine may have worked just as designed.
As with all other viruses, you can be immune AND pass it along. Immunity doesn't mean it won't get into your body, it means when it does, your body knows how to kill it. While it's killing it, it may still be in your respiratory system until killed, so yes you can spread it by breathing, sneezing, talking. You can also catch it with reduced symptoms, again depending on your immune system. You aren't immune right when they stick the needle in, your body needs to do some work first. For most they will be immune, others, not so much and others their body may do nothing with it.
Just like every other vaccine.
One thing I'm fascinated with is that people who are concerned about vaccine safety think that's an original thought. Trust me -- the more you know about drugs and vaccines (and I've spent a lot of time learning such things) you know them as powerful weapons, not unlike firearms. Do i use them? You bet! Do I respect them? More than you'll know!
The potential adverse effects are something that is concerning, for sure, especially when you are talking about giving something to a healthy population. That's true with ALL vaccines. That's why vaccine safety is something that can't be ignored.
That said, I can't find any evidence that it is ignored. On the contrary, in the professional journals I see abundant evidence that vaccine safety is taken very seriously. I wouldn't have taken the shot if I hadn't read them and reassured myself -- so I won't go telling anyone else to just "trust me". But I remain deeply impressed with these vaccines.
X2...and I'm "old and healthy" ;^)
2.) Some people may still get sick shortly after getting the shot, especially shot 1. There has not been time for the body to build up antibodies to gain a level of protection. Given the time from infection to symptoms, it's possible someone could be infected 4-6 days before shot 1 and still get it... and given efficacy after only 1 shot (Pfizer/moderna) is 50-60% as I recall), even during the period between shots you could get it. You could also be in the 5% of folks who dont respond as well and end up getting some degree of illness. It's not impossible, but saying a few examples of folks getting sick around or after vaccination suggest it doesnt work is not a reasonable expectation. Oh, and you are not getting full benefits of the vax until about 2-3 weeks after the second shot... Soooo... Quit a while there where you need to recognize your are not getting the full protection a given vax can give you.
3.) North of 90% of people (94-95%) who get the two available in the US dont develop any symptoms if exposed. No one can totally say that means they are not infectious (see 1 above). People who get the vaccine appear to not get seriously ill IF they fall in the 5% who may still become symptomatic if exposed. In other words - the two currently available work frigging great.
4.) Feeling icky a day or so after a vaccine is your body doing what your body naturally does. With vaccination, it does that without you potentially experiencing significant consequences from natural infection.
You likely will see little pushback ditching your mask in WY. What do you think will happen to those who choose to do the same in the liberal strongholds in the US? They will be framed as being worse than the virus itself. Heck....I am in KY and our Governor is running a close race with the most liberal Govs on virus protocol. Eventually the majority of people here will just ignore him and go on with life. I just hope that everyone understands that the left is going to frame anyone not wearing a mask as a domestic terrorist. Without openly opposing our local governments we won't be maskless for a long time.
I am ok with people not taking the vaccine, but once everyone has the opportunity to have the vaccination I'm done masking. I am not sold on their effectiveness, but I will out of respect for my neighbor wear them. There will be plenty who won't take the vaccination and will be fine without a mask and be ok with any risk from their choice, but there will be plenty of people who choose not to take the vaccination and expect everyone else to continue to social distance and wear masks just to protect them. The thought of personal responsibility to these types is taboo.
The % of people I personally know who got sick after being vaccinated is high. From aches and pains to 3 day pounding migraines to outright flu symptoms.
Until 2 years ago I hadn’t had a flu shot in decades. Shortly after the shot I had the worst case of flu in my life.
So to use the car analogy that has been thrown about here, imaging if only 1 in every 10,000 designs for a new ford car or truck actually made it to the market. And those failures occur everywhere from the designers drawing CAD, initial handmade prototype vehicles, and after full manufacturing lines for that vehicle have been constructed.
No, I am not totally defending Pharma, just providing some perspective. There is no defense for companies that jack up prices randomly on a moments notice. It's also ridiculous in my opinion for things like insulin to have such huge costs as well and the science behind making it is long beyond patent life expiration.
There is a common misconception about vaccines that they PREVENT disease. That is not completely true across the board. In most cases, the goal of a vaccine is to PREVENT you from DYING from said disease. The vaccine primes your body to recognize an antigen (foreign substance) by creating circulating antibodies to activate your immune system when antibodies bind to the foreign invader.
Vaccines are not like cars that can be modulated willy nilly and tossed out into the public. Major changes to vaccines will required Ph1 - Ph3 trials which are expensive and costly. So if you are waiting for the vaccine to get "tweaked" well, you'll be waiting for a new design which will undergo new trials which will have no more experience when it gets approved by the FDA.
Lastly, for those that aren't interested in the vaccine. Have you ever been on a ventilator? I've been on one twice for cardiac surgeries. They aren't much fun. What's worse than having a tube down your throat preventing you from speaking and causing irritation when they bring you out of the coma (for me it was just sedation from surgery) is the eventual removal of the catheter. Oh yes, realize they put you in a coma when you get intubated to prevent you from ripping the tube out and taking your vocal cords out with it and give your body time to heal and shut down other major functions (digestive, urinary, etc.). So in order to keep your systems running they insert a catheter to drain your urine. Now over time, you can develop adhesions to the tubing especially for the durations that you could be looking at with COVID. The result is that should you be lucky enough to survive and get unintubaned, they'll pull the catheter out....slowly, very slowly to assure that any adhesions don't rip out your ureter with it.
Just a few things to think on. Stay safe out there.
This is the same thing that happens when you get Covid, but I'm willing to bet good money, you'll get more complete, and specific immune response by catching Covid, than you will by getting these vaccines.
Hell, I'm willing to bet my life on it ;^)
Do you have study data to support that? I've seen it supposed that the antibody response from the vaccine may last longer than getting the disease based on the rate of decline they have measured in people who had the disease. And you don't have to risk the disease to get that immunity.
One thing a lot of folks seem to overlook is that the disease we know today may not be the one we are faced with in the future. Look at the South African, UK, or Brazilian variants as mutations that have occurred over time and which have made the disease more more transmissable. One of the big benefits to acheiving herd immunity sooner than later is it reduces the disease's ability to mutate into something that is possibly more transmissable, virulent, or difficult to treat.
Never took a daily drug except antibiotics prescribed by idiot physicians who were lining their pockets with cash while all I had was acute bronchitis (viral).
Won't submit to the Chicom Flu indoctrination inoculation.
Ahhh, since we have the vaccine, NOW you are advocating "herd immunity"... funny how the leftist narrative has changed, lol !
So...by your logic, we should have ditched all the "Shelter in Place" mandates a year ago (for the healthy population)...and we wouldn't be in this boat right now. Sounds reasonable to me, for a disease with a 99 percent survival rate.
Right from the start the experts said that herd immunity through a vaccine was the way out of this. Absolutely nothing has changed.
So you actually KNOW that everyone who takes the Chicom Flu indoctrination inoculation are going to survive and they won't have ANY long-term side effects? Please explain, NoWiser, what model of crystal ball you're using. Can we order it from Amazon?
Oh wait.... its 'Oldsite'
But the sheeple will sleep better, so there's that.
Just spit my beer up!!!! Lmao
Can you pharmaceutical folks also tell me what the vaccine means to those of us who have had the virus? Is it necessary? Will it do anything that our body hasn’t already done on it’s own from beating the bug? If one of the answers is “You only had one strain so aren’t necessarily immune to others” then I’d also ask if the instavac is protecting people from multiple strains?
Yeah...except, those diseases weren't manufactured in a Wuhan BioLab. It's a little trickier, to make a vaccine that actually works...under these conditions. Time will tell...
I am amazed how many people disregard the unknown long term effects from this unapproved vaccine. I know 2 people that were hospitalized within 48 hours of receiving the second dose of phizer. I watched my wife’s reaction after the second dose of phizer...... no thanks. I pray I don’t get covid, but if I do I feel pretty good about the 98.7% chance I will make it.
The only rude people in this are you chicken littles wanting everyone to be forced to do something against their will due to your fear. Those of us who don't submit to your will are just fighting back. The harder you push, the harder we'll push back.
And since the less than 1% *possible* gain in survivability is so valuable to you, and you get the vaccine, and you are protected, why the hell do you care if I get it and die? You've ostensibly covered your ass so what I do shouldn't matter at all.
Sorry about your friend's family. Death is heartbreaking. When it is a young person it is tragic. A friend of mine's wife just died at 43 from a disease unrelated to the Chicom flu. Like MANY sick people in the last year, she had experienced a reduction in her medical services and care due to the insane, tyrannical rules that have been shoved down our throats.
Basically no side effects.
I would encourage everyone to get it. Millions of doses have been given and the safety profile is about as good as could be expected - you could give a million people a shot of water in their arm and someone's gonna croak from it.
And just death rates are not all that should be looked at - millions of people who get it and survive are having major organ damage to their lungs, hearts, livers, kidneys, and brains.
You do realize that vaccination is a means of attaining herd immunity? Who am I kidding, of course you don't - because you don't seem to understand much of anything as it pertains to this whole situation.
Not sure if any other vaccines have ever had those kind of numbers. Food for thought...
I also just read tonight on MSM that the CDC said that children who had the flu shot and got the virus had lessened effects than those that did not. Found that interesting.
I had it last month and it wasn’t too rough for me. I won’t be getting the shot.
As pointed out correlation and causation aren’t the same thing but statistics are hard to grasp. It’s humorous to read people stating they won’t tell people to not get the shot, then continue on by ridiculing those who choose to do so lol.
The data is inaccurate and cooked. Take a look........
Of the ~13MM who had received the vaccine as of Feb. 1, the 271 deaths represents 0.0021%. It is telling that many of you will risk the ~1.5% death rate to avoid the 0.0021% rate that, at a maximum, could currently be attributed to the vaccine. The consistency of logic is impressive.
We also need to keep in mind that the first to be vaccinated were the elderly who are the most susceptible to both - and also the closest age class to death from other causes. It may even be that the 0.0021% doesn't differ that much from the expected death rate for that age group?
It hasn't been determined through clinical trial as to the degree of protection against being infected conferred by the vaccine. That doesn't mean there isn't a reduction, just that it hasn't been studied. Don't confuse that with meaning there is no benefit.
There is a small sample from Israel (way ahead of most of the world in vaccination, not peer reviewed) that show significant benefit in reducing infections:
"Maccabi Health Services, one of Israel’s four health maintenance organizations (HMOs), tracked 163,000 Israelis who had received both of the two required doses of the Pfizer vaccine; only 31 of those people tested positive for Covid-19, compared to an unvaccinated sample in which about 6,500 did."
The Pfizer vaccine is one of 2 currently available in the US.
And that is how.
You can’t claim Covid deaths are overinflated while at the same time believing post vaccination deaths are 100% caused by vaccination.
I believe everyone should have the right to choose whether to get the vaccine or not. I just grow tired of people who don’t have a background in medicine or statistics preaching to others and ridiculing them on a topic they aren’t even well versed to understand. Get the vaccine or don’t, I support that decision. I just have a hard time reading the non stop justification of these decisions. I’ve had covid, I’m not worried about getting it again. I’m not naive enough to claim that others shouldn’t be worried though. I’m going to get the shot as well. Cynically I think society is heading a direction that it’ll be challenging to travel without it, and the safety data doesn’t have me worried one bit about the vaccine.
This is the misinformation that’s so hard to stomach, it’s no different than how the media handled the past year of what was a riot vs a protest.
Congratulations for proving all you know about COVID was learned on Facebook.
Very likely air travel will require the vaccine. Our new Sec. of Transportation is exploring it at the moment. There will be people who wonder what risk an unvaccinated passenger with a mask on would pose to a plane-load of passengers who are vaccinated.
It’s interesting to me that people with loads of data to support the “facts” talk about facts that contradict each other.
I don’t really need a list of data. I’ve been around the sun 56 times and I have pretty good instincts. Instincts are a fact. They ate what keeps game animals alive and also what enables me to sniff them out and kill a few each year.
So I’m with drycreek.... I had it the week of Christmas. So I’m feeling confident that I am safe for several months. And I believe there will be a new and greatly improved version next year. And I don’t want to take two versions of it.
And I also don’t believe they let the bat out of the bag by accident. Ozzy Osbourne chewed on an un refrigerated bat and he’s fine. The speech impediment is from ingesting other items. Mostly organic too.
I too believe that some of the things we can and can't do will possibly be affected by whether we have been vaccinated. Air travel, cross-border travel, types of employment, health insurance, admission to certain institutions....all may be linked to proof of vaccination.
I haven't yet received the vaccine. I feel younger every day as I keep being told, "You're not old enough, so stop asking." I may qualify eventually by having birthdays faster than they ship and administer vaccine.
Get the vaccine or don’t, I support that decision. I just have a hard time reading the non stop shaming of those that don't get it and the canceling of dissenting voices.
See how that works TEmbry? When those, whose voices are being drowned out and canceled by DC, state govt, big tech, the media, entertainers, sports figures, etc., are pushed, we will push back harder. In any way we can. I'm sorry that allowing other people to fight their own battles 'tires you'. It must be quite the burden.
It’s all argument to support their ideas. And, that’s cool. One thing that isn’t cool is how sone ideas require forcing others to conform. Or, be considered ignorant or not caring.
I got news for those folk too. I had cancer. My immune system will forever be compromised. I had Covid too. I didn’t end up on a ventilator. Or, even get sick. Just head congestion. I’m not abnormal in that. Statistics say it. That’s the norm. So, this isn’t a pandemic at this point. Not even close.
However, The rhetoric spread by some would have you believe that we are all going to die from this. I got news for you. We are all going to die. Your day and cause has already been established. So, if you feel the need to get the vaccine. Get it with everyone’s support. But, you should allow those that disagree the same in return. Without all the dramatized crap.
I can't think of a good reason for me to get it. From what I'm hearing, its no guarantee you still can't carry and spread the virus. Also protection from the new strains apparently is minimal? I feel like I have pretty low risk from serious illness so why would I? If someone could explain to me in a calm reasonable manner why it is a good idea I would be inclined to listen. But yelling at me and telling me I just want people to die isn't going to get it done.
Read an NPR article the other day that said the pandemic was 10 times worse than we think, because the actual infection rate is 10 times higher than testing shows. Meaning tons of asymptomatic people who never got tested.
Wouldn't that actually be good news? 10 times less likely to cause death or serious illness?
This whole thing is a mess.
X1000!!!!!! And "mess" is being kind!
What I will have a problem with is limiting people and their travel or career because they don’t have the “vaccine”. I don’t agree with that at all. Then it’s not really a personal choice - but that seems to be the direction of the left these days - do it our way or we will ostracize and persecute you.
If the vaccine minimizes the effect of Covid - why should you care whether or not I got “vaccinated”.
If everything is as we are being told, a person deciding to not get the vaccine posses zero threat to those who do get it. That’s not enough though. It can’t be left at that. You gotta do it because it makes people feel better.
I like many here have looked death truly in the face. Down the barrel of a gun, with health, and with stupid things I’ve done but was spared. We’ve all faced it whether we know we have or not. And, should be grateful the Good Lord protected us from obvious death. As we grow older we recognize these happenings. Yet, never consider everyday things we do and the risks involved. We just assume the sun is going to rise everyday until we are tired and want no more. It isn’t going to work that way for almost everyone of us.
Yet, I see that mentality in people who insist the vaccine is the only way. My only question is where is your faith? Where is your brain? Data is telling us that mask aren’t helping. The s ientists ate telling us the vaccine isn’t going to help a lot of people. Yet, we all gotta do it.
I’m tired of being told what to do by people who could care less about me. Who act as if they are smarter then me. And, who insinuate love and compassion is their driving force behind their feelings. That’s a lie. It has to be if real world results mean anything.
I am so happy for those that want a shot, now have the ability to get one. I’m grateful for the hard work put into the whole effort. I’m just not going to put one in my body as things are now. I survived the first or second bout with ease. Might not the next. Time will tell.
Gods been good to me. And, in our talks, I’m not being urged to get it. So, no man or government is going to change that.
I'm not a big conspiracy theorist and trust the science behind it so I got it. I get that people are worried about it and would want to wait, but I had an opportunity to get mine so I did It will be a condition of employment at my hospital in the near future.
Similarity back in August our governor of NM said I had to quarantine if I left the state and came back. Well I admit I left and scouted for elk, came home for a couple days to gather all my hunting stuff and left again.
On a side note have you heard the latest? Fauci says we must wear 3 masks and a face shield for at least another year before we achieve herd immunity. I bet he owns a company selling masks.......
Just read some threads here. There were numerous people pro-vaccine that weren’t of the “live and let live” attitude you say 95% of them portray. It’s more like this - “You’re either part of the problem or the solution and If you don’t get vaccinated, you are part of the problem.” Doesn’t sound like they don’t care what I do. Sounds like they’ve very much got an opinion and aren’t afraid to ostracize those who don’t think like they do.
I as all of my immediate family had it around Christmas and I was pretty sick for 6 days where I was pretty much bed ridden and sicker than any flu I’ve ever had.
I am going to get the vaccine as soon as possible.
I would recommend that you keep the cardboard vaccination card they provide and laminate it for the upcoming time that it will be required to get on aircraft or should your employer mandate it. It’s coming as soon as there is sufficient portions of the country provided access to the vaccine.
Feels pretty stupid having to wear a cloth mask which doesn’t protect when I recently had this and cannot get it or give it to anyone.
Weird times we are in.
The guy must truly have magic powers! :^D
Not at all relevant to the current vaccine or scenario other than both are vaccines and both are relatively low risk choices to potentially protect yourself and others.
I don’t know if I have a live and let live mentality about getting the vaccine, but I certainly don’t about the continual onslaught of misinformation. Usually from the same crowd furious with MSM about their handling of misinformation for the past few years.
Interesting, the vials are supposed to have 5 full doses, but most of the vials have 6 full doses, so they end up having some extra is the way I've understood it. But they have to use it quick once they've opened that vial
(For a fun comparison, 5 of the 14 _counties_ in MA have higher populations than the entire state of Wyoming.)
If I lived in a more sparsely populated area, maybe I wouldn't be so motivated.
So now you are correlating the decline following the 1/8/21 peak with Biden's inauguration and not the predicted decline following the increase in cases from Christmas and New Years (and after seeing a similar, precipitous increase and similar decline after Thanksgiving)?
Do you? Which ingredient has you concerned? What is your specific basis for that concern? Why do you have such concerns when the vast majority of the medically trained don't? And what is it that you know the FDA doesn't?
Or is this just another attempt to reinforce an uninformed opinion?
Matt is spot on. Those spewing misinformation and paranoia, not so much. There are risks to getting the vaccine (real ones, not the ridiculous BS being thrown around on the internet) and risks to not getting the vaccine. You should get informed and make an informed decision based on the balance of each of those risks. Put another way, you can put a substance developed by scientists in a lab in your body, or get something in your body that was made from soup of dead bat in a totally uncontrolled and dirty environment. Also, for those worried about the longterm effects of the vaccine, how do they compare with the longterm effects of covid? Not many are talking about longterm effects of covid (compared to the vaccine for it), which may be a thing (or may not). Hard to come up with an informed answer to that one, but I'm confident in which one to bet on in terms of worse outcome (hint- see bat soup question above).
Mule Power's Link
So I feel semi safe for now. I agree that in a year, or by the end of this year there will be a new and greatly improved vaccine. Maybe much sooner actually. So in my situation I think it’s ok to wait. I’m last on the list anyway and to my understanding I can’t get the vaccine for 90 days after testing positive.
I’m actually glad I had it because I intended to wait. We know so little about the virus or the vaccine. Obviously we know nothing about the long term affects of either. This article would suggest that people getting the vaccine right now will be back in line before too long. Quite possibly the back of the line.
Patience is always a good thing. Why run down the hill and jump on one of those cows when you can walk down there and have all of them said the wise old bull. I lost a very good friend this past year. I have another in the hospital on oxygen right now. So I definitely take it seriously. But I also take seriously putting things into my body. I take very little drugs whether prescription or otc. None long term.
Some people have a pill box so they can prefill each section with 10 pills a day. Some are obviously necessary but many are not. To each his own but that’s not my cup of tea.
I also try to think of things differently. Just like bowhunting from the 1950's-1960's to present day, technology advances have come a long way and we have that many more years of knowledge (and scientific study with viruses and how vaccines work). So knowledge of how viruses work and how vaccines are developed have come a long way and is likely a major factor that a vaccine was developed faster and to some point approved faster.
But having or not having it will trigger other things: - Can you travel? Will other countries let you in? Will our country let you back in? - will events/places require it? Also will it simply make your life easier if you have it now? WY has now said if you have the shots and long enough for them to be fully functional (it's not instant), then there's no reason to wear a mask in public. Hell even CDC is saying that, but they are asking you to consider wearing one to support those who still have to (sorry, not my problem).
There's a few place, IMO, you should NOT use for info on this: - media - internet, including youtube Go to the CDC site, find someone in this field. Pick their brain, talk to your doctor. Yes there are unknowns, there always are. For my wife and I, we will get it when we can. Our son is a viral biologist and does testing including on mRNA things. He understands it (though i can't even understand his explanations), he said "Mom, Dad, just get the shots). If I can't trust my son who is educated and does this for a living, why would I trust some random internet or media person?
If you do your research, including what restrictions you may or may not have based on your vaccination status, make your decision. That's your right.
How long did it take to develop the vaccine? Less than a year for the final product, but the technology and initial work in developing the vaccine(s) was in the works for a long time.
How long did it take to develop other vaccines? Much longer- science and understanding of vaccines/viruses have changed dramatically as we know more. Using polio as an example is kinda like describing how Henry Ford made a vehicle vs. how they are made now...
What was the process? The process is well documented- look it up, educate yourself.
Why should I trust that this vaccine even works? I think it's pretty clear you're not going to, not matter how well supported the vaccine and the science behind it is.
Because a guy like Fauci says so? Obviously not- he's just a spokesperson. Again, educate yourself!
Where’s the proof that this vaccine even works long term or at all? "Proof" is an interesting word. Things we have "proven" in the past sometimes turn out to be incorrect or at least not complete. There is clear support for the effectiveness of the vaccine(s). If you choose not to believe that because of paranoid ramblings you read o the internet, that's your choice.
How does the vaccine work? Again, this is well documented. Educate yourself! There are three primary mechanisms of action- look them up.
How does it protect you? See the link- it's a reasonable summary of some basic info regarding the vaccine(s).
What are the short term side effects? This is pretty well characterized at this point. Look them up.
What are the long term side effects! There's no way to know this. See my post (and Kevin Dill's post) above. This concern/question should be balanced against what the long term impact of getting covid might be (which also can't be known at this point).
Are Americans “free” to make their own decision on this? Ummm... yes.
So. If you want to to know how "old" the technology is, one could very reasonably make the case that it's 15-17 years old - which is why, once research had the virus's structural make up, they could rather quickly create the part (spike protein) they wanted to use to fight this, and go to phase 1 trials.
Now, if that general history of mRNA vaccine strategies for coronavirus's feels like it doesnt apply because this one is like 8 months old or what not.
Consider that it was used on tends of thousands in testing and went very well... And has now been used in millions. One interesting point is that as the total numbers have gone up, one area people were concerned about (anaphylaxis) has actually been found to be occurring at a slightly lower rate than the clinical trials found.
So, while the Warp Speed process smoothed out the process and allowed a more rapid succession between trial phases, it didnt reduce oversight for safety/efficacy. It was a solid get vax's developed process - and it build on around a decade and a half of mRNA vaccine research focused on very similar virus's.
Others have noted this, but if "long term effects" of the vax create fear, you should discuss the actual long term side effects of even modest SARS-CoV2-2019 infection with medical providers dealing with it every day. To describe the long term risk of COVID19 as massively worse than anything the vax has even created the slightest sniff of at this point would be an understatement.
The hardest thing is that for many the illness is not a super big deal, and it's easy to see or hear a few stories like that or experience it ourselves and then assume that's reality. In reality, that thinking pattern is a logical fallacy. It's a significant illness for a LOT of folks.
I sure as hell am not an anti-vaxxer. Kids all had their shots. But I did work with pharma in new drugs and their delivery systems and and what is required to move from each stage of clinicals to ultimate use. That hasn’t happened with these vaccines.
I'm not anti-vax. I'm anti-Chicom Flu Indoctrination Inoculation (for myself) due to: the incredibly high survival rate, the FACT that "knowledge" about the Chicom Flu changes frequently as shared by the "experts", the medical community being divided on treatment AND the dissenting voices being silenced by the powerbrokers, the powerbrokers being unified in telling us what to do and finally a complete distrust of the powerbrokers and their motives.
Half of the posters to this thread are fully accepting of being told what to do by a laundry list of entities that have proven they want you to have fewer rights, liberties and freedoms. I'm not nearly as willing as most "...to give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety..." and have little respect for those trying to force me into that mindset.
Best response yet Landshark Launcher. :o)
balance that against the vaccine. - Does it "cure" C19? Not always, but 95+% effective - Effective can range from "less severe" to "don't get it" - Long term effects? Unknown - Is it safe? Yes, at least as safe as other vaccines
Wonder of the USA, you get to pick which scenario you want.
Bob - increasingly not the case.
I actually didn't give two sh!ts about the warp speed program for a vaccine that will save a miniscule amount of people, relatively speaking. If we all cared about health so much, there would be a complete ban on ALL smoking, ALL alcohol, ALL processed foods with sugar, ALL vehicular traffic over (XX?) MPH, ALL face-to-face gatherings without FULL PPE.
This is one minor issue compared to the hundreds of thousands of deaths that occur from preventable causes on an annual basis - if we only asked Big Brother to control our behavior just a little more, and a little bit more, and a little bit more, etc.
Thankfully, I don't see anyone here on this thread doing that.
If a person chooses not to get the vaccine, then becomes infected and infects someone else that results in the death of that 2nd person.....is that 1st person who intentionally refused to get the vaccine have any legal culpability in the death of the 2nd person?
NO. Not even in leftist America.
This is not a pandemic in anyway unless you make it out to be one by speculation. But, we have to consider reality as we know it now. And, that doesn’t involve sacrifices to make other feel better by force. If this things grows to that, we can all have a civilized talk about it then. But, we ain’t even close to that.
It keeps getting said to follow the science. Well, that’s the science of it. A survival rate so high we have to speculate on the true numbers because so many people have had it and didn’t even know to test for it. That’s not a pandemic. Yet, we keep getting told to follow the science. Well, that’s what I’m doing. Speculation isn’t proven.
Anyways, I really never thought I’d see the day where it was considered that people might be Liable for failing to to take a shot for something that is currently so non lethal. Yeah boy, hire a lawyer and try to push that through civil court. See how that goes for you. I’m betting the Corona virus will become your last worry at that point.
Don't be so sure. Florida has it included in their STI or STD laws. Don't EVER put anything past a liberal. They'll jail their own mother if it fit the narrative.
There are already circumstances (laws) where vaccinations can be mandatory. Kids going to school is one example.
It would not surprise me at all to learn that the vaccine is nothing but sugar water.
I believe none of what I hear and half of what I see.
Please do not trust social media stuff for information - I realize that's odd as I type it into a social media platform. Seriously though, the level of pseudoscience sometimes dropped out there is astonishing.
I have met employees of clients who later died of COVID-19. I have also met those who were quite ill and others who had the meh... nothing burger reaction. This is real but the individual response is quite variable. I wish I could get the shot but the govt. doesn't have me on the preference list even though I was an essential worker early on with a primary focus of providing health and safety or industrial hygiene consulting.
That said, the COVID-19 vaccine which is mRNA based not DNA based is new but the building blocks for it started with other SARS outbreaks. No you can't get COIVD-19 from the vaccine, its not alive, never been alive just a key for you body to know when COVID-19 comes a calling. (e.g. Knock Knock, Who's there?, COVID-19, Sorry we gave at the office... those two big white corpuscles behind you can help you off the property).
I sat in on a webinar hosted by Los Alamos lab about a month ago with a lot of other safety professionals. An interesting presentation that even in that environment there are still COVID-19 deniers and highly technical people who don't get it. One of the things mentioned was in the trials of the vaccine out of the thousands upon thousands of test subjects only 1 (one) uno, einse, ichi, I, ONE person caught COVID-19 that required any level of critical care. Thats right only ONE out of thousands upon thousands vaccinated was unprotected. Go enough for me I will get the shots.
Too funny indeed. The grand irony here is that the loss of liberty and freedom due to COVID restrictions is what many guys were bitching about at the onset of the pandemic. Now that there is a tool to reverse those losses, they are bitching about it for the same reason.
Also, trophy, I whole heartedly support your ability to choose whether to get the vaccine or not. I have several friends choosing to not get it and I support their choice, in large part because they offer reasonable reasons to not get it. I choose differently than them, but I couldn't support them and their choice any more than I do. However, the rationale you provide above as to why you choose to not get it is filled with misinformation and a clear lack of understanding. If you had a valid reason to not get vaccinated that was based in accurate, rational info your case to not get it would be a whole lot more defensible. In the end it's also your choice to not get informed and still make the decision for yourself. I hope that ends up being a good decision for you (and I truly mean that).
Do you have a time machine hidden in the shed?
I decided to lead with that rather than the "if my aunt had balls,..." line.
ND String Puller's Link
I mentioned 'population density' earlier. It's not coincidence that the most densely populated areas have the highest rates of infection, but people will STILL ride public transportation and gather too closely.
I used the example of Wyoming vs. 'Worcester County, Massachusetts' which is extreme, but it illustrates how unevenly population is distributed across the country. (Wyoming has 3/4 of the people of WCMa but 62 times the area.)
I think we can agree that methods that are helpful in one place don't make sense everywhere. (And I'll deal with the situation *here* tyvm.)
And that isn’t internet misinformation folks.....
It's 'anecdotal'. In statistical speak, it's ONE data point. Without the particulars of the case it would be useless to draw conclusions from it. As so many have pointed out above, getting the shots does not give you 'instant Teflon' protection from catching the virus. I'm getting the shots and then I'm still gonna avoid the heck out of crowds for another two months.
Arguing from the standpoint of a conspiracy theorist makes people sound a lot like the folks who claim the holocaust never happened, we've never been on the moon, and the earth is flat. Because numbers have been inflated doesn't discount everything and make covid a conspiracy.
Get informed and educated about the risks of the virus and the vaccine. Once informed, made a decision about the balance of risks.
So my philosophy is to go on with my Life. Wife & I are heading to Florida for a couple of weeks to do some Fishing, enjoy the warm sunshine, & partake of the Floridian hospitality.
His point is he had the virus. It was for him like it was/has been for roughly 90% of the people who has had it. Very mild. His point is he also knows the virus is deadly for such a small portion, way less then 1% of the people who get it, that he doesn’t prioritize getting the vaccine. He isn’t knocking you for getting it. And, he’s trying to point out that there are many unknowns. And, That the effectiveness isn’t known.
Basically, he is saying everything being stated by the same science you fellas are picking and choosing your points to further your position. The difference is, he isn’t picking and choosing his truths. He taking everything for face value and developing an approach he’s comfortable with.
That’s something not shared by a bunch on this thread. So, if it’s not you, don’t get defensive. If it is you, It’s like you can’t grasp someone not seeing it the same way. Even though there is enough SCIENCE available to suggest it’s a warrantied approach.
That’s what I read from him and everyone else sharing his position. It’s not based on fear, conspiracy theory, or anything other then results. So, Saying differently doesn’t make it so.
So......what you're saying is we need to wait several years until long term clinicals and trials are in place? Because right now, there are NONE. We have a flu that we have known about for a year, a vaccine, substantially less than that. Mike in Ct (and he works in the field) had mentioned that he didn't think a vaccine would be available for ~2 years and that would be fast tracked. Again, there are no long term studies that show either the effectiveness nor the side effects. THAT is my issue. Period. There is NO long term information to make an informed opinion. And just because the government says this fast tracked vaccine is OK, doesn't make it so. In the not so distant past this is the same government that conducted STD studies on blacks, and LSD studies by the CIA with an untold number of deaths and destroyed lives.
How many of you when your favorite truck brand releases a brand spanking new generation, new engine, transmission, electronics, etc, say I'm gonna wait a few years till all the bugs get worked out before I drop some $$. But a new vaccine, relativley untested, lined up to get it and mock those that question the validity of how it was rushed thru.
FTR, my kids have had all their shots, my grandkids, I get tetnaus boosters when required. I don't get the flu shot. It typically is a crap shoot as to which flu hits (apparently all other flu strains are extinct) and it's typically only 40-50% effective. Plus the last two times my wife got it, she was hammered hard, laid up two weeks, with the flu. Vaccines fault? Her own body's reaction? Just a freak occurence? Who knows... Not opposed to the standard flu vaccine, just not getting it. And apparently there have been no cases or deaths attributed to the "old" flu.
The problem is that the lockdowns really did nothing to slow the virus.
A 25 MPH national speed limit would save lives.
Remember when closing for 15 days was an unprecedented move?
So my philosophy is to go on with my Life. Wife & I are heading to Florida for a couple of weeks to do some Fishing, enjoy the warm sunshine, & partake of the Floridian hospitality.
My biggest regret is I passed on a Franchi instinct, 3 CZ woodcocks, and 3 CZ ring necks. I should have brought one of them suckers home
The ONLY thing that matters is whether or not an individual, American Citizen, wants to get the vaccine or not. My agreement with your reasons isn't necessary. Your agreement for my reasons isn't necessary. If you don't advocate for my choice to be invalid, we're good. If you do, you'll be high on the list when the fecal matter hits the oscillating device - you have proven that you do not care about individual rights, freedoms and liberties as much as you care about your safety and compliance with Big Brother.
Bake - your meme is insensitive and demeaning to those for whom truth and common sense is a trigger. Shame!
I would love to hear Mike's thoughts as well.
I think that depends, again, on where you are, population density etc. In 'thin' areas it probably doesn't matter. If it had been pushed *harder* *sooner* in densely populated areas, who knows? It seems to be helping in other countries, although I haven't really studied it hard. (They do seem to *enforce* it harder.)
Dirty Mike- whole different ball game with virus vaccines. Viruses mutate, hence the high fail rate.
One thing is for sure, we can’t win against this Covid. We can beat the flu bug though.
The vaccines are created and start to be distributed. Within a week he is telling us we have to be worried about variants, but we always knew there would be variants. I remember him talking about it on TV. It is natural for virus to mutate as it goes through the population. Sometimes the variants may spread easier, but the mutated variants generally cause less severe illness. He also no longer speaks of the people that have had covid when talking about herd immunity. Every time I here him on TV now it is based off up to 90 percent of the population getting the vaccine(the number varies between 75-90), nothing about everyone that has caught covid.
A month or two back he said kids should be in school, teachers don't need to be vaccinated. That should be the "default posistion". The last week or so when I see him on TV he says its a very complicated subject and he doesn't have all the data yet.
A news anchor asked him if now that her parents got vaccinated, can they come visit the grandchildren. He said no that wouldn't be a good Idea. Also just because you got vaccinated, it doesn't mean you can start going out to restaurants and theaters.
In that same interview he mentioned he believed around July everyone that wanted the vaccine would be able to get it. In the end of the interview she asked when life could be normal again. He just kind of laughed. He said he still thought social distancing and masked would be required in 2022. If everyone that wants the vaccine got it why would we be wearing masks and social distancing still?
I was reading the information about vaccines on the CDC website, and this is all baffling to me. What I read there seems to contradict what he has been saying lately about how to live your life after being vaccinated. We need to get the vaccine so we don't get sick and spread the virus, but if you get the vaccine you can still get sick and spread the virus.
My wife is in health care so she got both vaccine shots over the last month. She just got sick for one day after the second shot. I'm all for getting it as soon as I can. Im not in a high risk group but have family that is. I would love for them and me to get it so we aren't worried about seeing each other.
Sorry for the long post, just really baffled after the TV interviews he has done the last week or two. Seem's as though he is saying that being vaccinated doesn't mean your life is normal again. You still have to mask up and socially distance. You can still catch virus and spread virus. If we were all vaccinated we could all still catch and spread virus then correct?
I'm not trying to stir the pot. I know there are several people with medical backgrounds that post on here. Just wondering if any of this makes sense. What he is saying on TV doesn't even seem to jive with the CDC website info about how vaccinations work.
I feel 85% back to normal this Saturday morning. Least this creates concern over some people, I should disclose that I'm immune compromised (which lead me to the decision to take the vaccine in the first place) Maybe that lead to the reaction I had. I'm just glad I didn't get 'real' Covid.
We live in a very rural setting and there were many unfilled appointments at the sessions offered. I don’t think where we live that even 50% will get vaccinated for one personal reason or another. I’m sure our area is a bit of an anomaly though.
My wife tested positive 3 days ago, she was down for a week. Slept 20 hours a day. I can't believe I didn't get it from her, she is getting back to normal now, thank goodness. Dishes were starting to pile up....
Getting the vaccine amplifies the immune response for those who have recoved from the virus and may provide more durable protection. Moreover, the purpose of the vaccine is to keep people from getting a severe form of the disease or dying from it, not to keep them from getting it per se (although it seems to do that as well).
If you are doing some research on this, you might also look up the medical definition of "experimental" to avoid misusing it in the future.
The answers are out there if you take the opportunity to look for them.
Given all else you apparently don't know, are you aware that Trump got the vaccine in january - even though he already had COVID?Care to guess why that was?
Antibodies....presumably at this point. I didn't get vaccinated for social benefit, or to clear a hurdle. I didn't get vaccinated so I can feel 'free' or ditch the mask. I got vaccinated simply to improve my odds of not sustaining a viral infection which just might threaten my overall health or even life. They don't give you a better warranty on life when you get the vaccine. You hope it works...think of a parachute.
My family and I come from backgrounds of education and employment in various medical sciences. We have strong beliefs in medical science and the advancements witnessed in the last several decades. I'm not advocating for that over anyone else's beliefs....just pointing out why I/we are all getting vaccinated. I personally have fairly significant risk factors. No spleen. History of severe respiratory infections. Pneumonia risk is elevated. I weigh 364 pounds.... ;-)
Sure, I could get some antibodies by getting the virus and surviving it. Very good chance that's what would've happened. I just prefer to (try to) keep the virus from storming the beach and finding it undefended. I personally prefer the option of the vaccine to hopefully head off a full-on viral invasion of my body. For the record, I think EVERYONE has the right to decide what's best for themselves. I don't judge people as right or wrong for deciding how to address the option of getting vaccinated.
I would take the shot and 11 days of hunting somewhere instead of being sick.
It's going to be interesting if some people develop side effects and then find out they have NO recourse. Litigation will not be an option. If the " vaccine " is completely legit and safe, why did the Feds give the biotech companies that golden insurance umbrella??
Perhaps we need to move this line of thinking farther into society, bet rid of all the trial lawyers...Roundup claims will be the first to go. Mesothelioma?
People will say some folks aren’t wearing them. And blame those folks for the explosion of cases the last two months of the year. But, it begs to be answered why those who wore masks still got the Covid? I’d like to hear someone weigh in on it with a sincere attempt to suggest why besides my opinion.
I can’t testify to other places other then where I’ve been. But, it’s been “law” since the second week in November in mid Atlantic states. No gas, no grocery store, no commerce at all if you didn’t have a mask on. Yet, it exploded until cresting last month.
Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, etc.... will be blamed. Yet, all other viruses have decreased dramatically. Hmmm?
It’s a virus. Vaccine aside, unless you are immune to it, you are going to get it. One way or the other. Mask, no mask, etc... Unless you choose to lock away and never come out unless it dies out, or you get the vaccine, you are likely going to get it.
You can’t forget what the numbers say. 80% of those that get it, don’t even know they have it. By bowsite testimony, The vaccination seems to be causing more noticeable results for the vast majority then the virus does. Yet, we still have people calling others idiots for not getting inline for the shot. SMH.
Anyways, masks works so good, Faucci has even stated wearing two or three at the same time is better. That’s how good they work. Awesome.
Once again, sarcasm aside, I’m happy for those who have wanted one and gotten a vaccination. I hope those that haven’t, get theirs soon. And, I’ll drop out until another poster insinuates anything but his way of thinking is stupid.
Take care and God Bless men.
Just messin with you WV.
Willie, I agree. Except on Covid matters. :^)
Kind of makes you wonder why the Folks who work at Pfizer feel it's safe enough for them to get the vaccine.
A couple of thoughts here, 95 and 94 % effective at preventing the virus is substantial. keep in mind this is a quick turn around, but remember they aren't inventing the wheel with this vaccine.
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Pfizer Inc PFE.N on Tuesday said it has reached a $486 million settlement of litigation accusing it of causing big losses for shareholders by concealing safety risks associated with its Celebrex and Bextra pain-relieving drugs.
" Believe the science" well I'm a huge believer, but on the occasion I've been around a TV, I've noticed countless commercials from law firms, regarding pharmaceuticals. What was a " scientific breakthrough " last year, is a class action suit this year... the owner of my old bow shop got on Phen-fen( sp?) to loose weight, in the 90's. Worked awesome, until it almost killed him. Use some discretion, hat's all I'm saying. Unintended consequences abound.
An FDA-approved drug being used for its stated indication is by definition not experimental.
The social family gatherings over the holidays contributed to the spike in covid likely because people used precautionary measures like masks, hand washing, distancing, and other risk reduction measures (air filtration on planes) to REDUCE risk while traveling. They likely let their guard down while they were hanging out at grandma’s for a few days. Lastly, did you ever stop to think the “flu” may not be as contagious or maybe has a shorter self life outside the body than Covid? There are many many scientific reasons why the flu reduction was greater than Covid. SMH.
I think some confuse belief and anecdotal observations with scientific facts. From their perspective, the universe is revolving around them in WV. Because they see the stars, sun, and moon move across the sky they...themselves must be standing still. However, their observations do not supersede scientific fact SMH.
I'm hopeful it's safe and works, but my confidence in bureaucracies and deep state corporate cronyism, is not at the level of others, it seems.
This whole thing just reminds me of Ms Pelosi's passing of the ObamaCare act. " We need to pass the bill to see WHAT's IN the bill".....doesn't pass my smell test, but I've been wrong before.
I was done with this thread but I got triggered, sorry.
bb (I think it was) above noted the challenge of covering a massive conspiracy up. There is literally a math based tool to estimate that, which works on the number of people involved. This is literally a tool that was researched and validated! (Grimes Model) The more people involved, the less time until "the truth" comes out. So, if you are worried that there is a massive conspiracy behind these VACCINES, no worries, given the thousands of people involved in their production and testing to this point, coupled with about 15-20 years in the pipeline (originally for the original SARS and MERS virus's as well as to deliver various cancer treatment agents) the grand conspiracy would be outed. It's not. Because there isnt one.
Then again, there is also the reality that with millions of people having been given the vaccines, safety has actually been found to be BETTER than what the already very safe clinical trial data looked like from last year... So, if a clinical trial with 20-40,000 participants didnt create enough statistical power, the ongoing data collection based evidence should help.
Ok, now I'm out, for real.
Eitherway, it’s a pretty common denominator that someone at those gatherings already had Covid. And, it’s a pretty common denominator that mask mandates were prior to this gatherings. Meaning all the masks did nothing to prevent their family from getting it. Whether they wore masks at those gatherings are irrelevant. They were very likely wearing them before those holidays when the infected visited family.
The world doesn’t revolve around WV. That’s my whole point. And, unless internet information is lying, everyone is experiencing a pretty tight mandate. Including masks well before those holidays.
We can go on implying there is a reason masks have yet to stop the spread. Or, we could realize the vaccine is likely the biggest culprit in that affect.
Life is going to continue for blue collar America whether government wants it to or not. As stated before, no one questions the effectiveness of social distancing and good hygiene. And, no one is going to loose possessions to make their silly neighbor feel better because we’ve just give up and stayed home.
If I did not work on the nursing home, I probably would not have gotten the vaccine since I am under 65, in good health, a non-smoker and no respiratory issues.
Until someone can publish provable test results similar to that of a bullet proof vest...I'm still skeptical...
Could be why Fauci is now suggesting 3 or 4 masks at once, trying to reduce the size to say Chicken wire?
FYI- your supposed to wear a mask on your upper orphis. Maybe that’s your problem. You got them confused with your lower orphis. It happens to the best of us.
It’s a reduction of risk...genius. How many would have contracted the virus without mask?
Contemplate that while your mowing yards...I mean conducting forestry science.
Being in Idaho, fish and game was called in help out with administering shots. Reports of people forced to run across a parking lot and getting hit by a dart gun, others lured into a culvert and getting hit with a syringe on a ten foot pole are rampant. No wonder the grizzly bears around here are so trap shy.
When I get there Wed., if I see a helicopter with a canon net on the skid, I'll turn around.
Again, that is simply not true. The clinical trails for vaccine approval were not designed to test for that so some people who do not understand that take it to mean they do not, but data from Israel is demonstrating otherwise. Strongly.
This topic sheds light on why we are where we are as a country. Too many people willing to speak authoritatively about things that are simply not true.
That is like saying speed is never a contributing factor in traffic deaths because we have speed limits.
Matt, it’s only that way if you try to make it that way. We’ve had this discussion before. Covid wasn’t hiding in the turkey. Awaiting its chance to affect those not wearing masks. Somebody had to have it if the families enjoying the holidays are to be blamed for the increase in Covid cases. That’s about as Simple to understand as it gets.
No. Suggesting that masks do not work because there is a mask mandate and that has not stopped the spread of COVID is stupid, as it assumes that people have strictly followed said mask mandate. As much as I dislike the nut s@cks that run around the internet citing logical fallacies as a rebuttal to arguments, that is clear an ad hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. Which is just a fancy Latin description for people who are not clever enough to be able to correctly attribute cause.
There's an old joke about an experiment on a frog. The scientist claps loudly to make the frog jump and then measures the distance. After each jump, the scientist cuts off a leg and the distance of each of the frog's successive jumps decreases. After the scientist cuts off the 4th leg and claps, the frog does not jump. The scientist concludes that cutting off the 4th leg has rendered the frog deaf.
That has been the “law”. Since the first of November. For all mid Atlantic states. You either assume people aren’t following the law or, are setting on enough supplies to prevent having to interact with society in the last 5 months. That’s pretty far fetched.
I’ll also add that Logical fallacies apply to those that regurgitate mindless protocol when results suggest they may not be effective. Or, even work. But, they just keep on saying it. Like it’s fact. Because someone assumed it was the case way back.
And, It sounds like your scientist in the analogy might have the last name of Faucci. If one won’t work, wear two. Or three.
FWIW, if you’d spend an ounce of the time actually listening to people, you might could remember what’s been said about their beliefs concerning masks. Where the blame lies in their ineffectiveness. But, it’s more your style to bounce from thread to thread picking apart posts, inserting witty remarks in contrast of meaning, and smirk from the safety of your computer.
Finally. Nut sack? You had to be looking in the mirror when you typed that.
Your logic is missing a control group. How much would Covid spread without masks? There is peer reviewed data out there if you care to read. But yes, proceed with your Internet samples lmao. Again, your perceived observations supersede medical science. Arrogance defined.
What’s next? Spontaneous generation? No moon landing? Flat earth? Zeno's paradox? Eventually, the next time you target practice the arrow will never reach the target. SMH.
Grey Ghost's Link
But, I know Justin won't read any of them, because he already has all the answers, and he'll gladly share them with you, over and over and over, ad nauseam.
So who is going to ensure that the Biden-approved mass migration of illegal aliens is all masked up as they invade our Southern border? How about Antifa, BLM rioters...are they also immune as they stampede in to loot BestBuy?
Oh wait, come to think of it, I remember reading an article where Faucci claimed COVID only spreads during joyous occasions.
Back when I was in school, our science books didn't incorporate liberal logic.
This is playing out more like a religion than a pandemic!
Not a panacea, but work. That said, and this is a broad statement NOT reflective of this thread... Just a broad observation... there is a definite love for things that do not work (HCQ, Ivermectin, etc) vs things that do (masks, distance, hygiene, dexamethasone, monoclonal antibodies, VACCINES, etc)
Liberal logic is no different then liberal policy. It has no account for common life. Only paper testimony. But, you got nutsacks running around the internet spreading it as the gospel. That’s the definition of stupid as the nutsack from California pointed out.
Did you bother reading any of the dozens of articles I posted? I didn't think so, because the vast majority of them don't support your preconceived biases.
Bottom line.... it’s your choice. The seriousness of it means nobody should be judging others for their decision. And the fact is that we don’t have the virus.... viruseS figured out and barely know shit about the vaccine. So speculate all you want we are in uncharted territory. AND we’ll be at a whole other level of the situation with the bug and the vax by the end of summer so calm down.
The irony of who actually said the quote above is just too good!
Taken from the final lines of the study. Doesn't sound like an absolute to me...coughing/sneezing into your elbow also "has the potential" to slow the spread of Covid 19
Quote from the study.
Statistically significant means the model indicates the study is valid. 2% of 500,000 is 10,000 people that may have survived. That’s significant in my book especially if 1 of the 10,000 is someone I care about. That does not account for the additional spread by the infected 2% either. It grows exponentially with subsequent transmissions.
Thanks for the heads up. Interesting study. This study like many others prove masks do reduce the risk of transmission of Covid. Added with social distancing and hygiene the reduction can be much bigger.
With that said, I tired of Covid just like everyone else. Bring on the vaccines so we can open up the country. There is no other long term solution.
When it comes to public policy changing an outcome like death rate related to a disease, the percentage changes indicated in this article are, in my opinion, quite meaningful. You're not going to get a 30% change for a policy like this and you have to think Bayesian to appreciate the impact of it. An almost 2% change in death rate related to COVID across millions and millions of people-- that's a big deal.
I also see a huge "cost" associated with them that many don't. I believe creating the mandates by fiat is an overstep of government power and I believe that people being forced to wear masks is dehumanizing and "significantly" (more than 2%) detracts from our quality if life.
It wasn't long ago that forcing women to cover their face in public was considered outrageous by many.
If you don’t like it then don’t shop there.
Glunt, I agree. I wasn't trying to dispute you in any way. I was just trying to make sense of your interpretation of the article. I'm a researcher by training, so that's the language I speak on a daily basis. ...and for the record, I agree with you. Governmental overreach is a very real thing!
There are two sides to the masking piece of this- it's overreach vs. it's not a big deal to cover up and protect people. In the end, people's beliefs about the issue come, in large part, down to how ok they are with the government futzing with their lives. Relatedly, it is obviously a conservative vs. liberal issue (i.e., "leave me the hell alone and let me make my own decisions" vs. "take care of me").
Just like he had to lie about what level of the population would need to be vaccinated to reach herd immunity. He had to start out saying 60 percent and work his way up to 90 percent over time. The American people weren't ready to hear 90 percent right out of the gate.
We are so lucky to have someone so high up in our government that knows which "science" we are ready to know.
Imagine what could happen if he just told the truth! :)
No mention of those who have already had the Kung Flu (healthy Immune systems are just a "Conspiracy Theory" these days) ...typical !
Alternate interpretation, "I believe in science" vs "I feel my political beliefs provide me adequate protection against a virus."
Masks work. Mask mandates, not as well because...see the latter above.
If masks help, and I believe they do, they would not work letting everyone decide themselves what they want to do. Because if they do work, its not because the mask you are wearing protects you. Let me repeat that: THE MASK YOU ARE WEARING DOESN'T PROTECT YOU. No one is saying that. The mask you are wearing protects other people if YOU are shedding virus.
It is certainly not scientific, but I have had 5 people in my business come down with Covid, all contracted somewhere else. We employ 30 people and we all wear masks all day and we have had ZERO transmission between coworkers. My niece went to a church get together of 9 women, and they didn't wear masks. No women were showing signs at the time of the get together or for 2 days after that. All 9 women came down with it.
As far as getting the vaccine means you don't have to wear a mask... That is now the recommendation IF you are around other people who have had the vaccine or the disease. Not if you are going out in the general population
"According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), a person who is vaccinated against COVID-19 can still be infected with or “carry” the virus that causes COVID-19 while not feeling sick or having symptoms. Experts call this “asymptomatic infection.”
"Alternate interpretation, "I believe in science" vs "I feel my political beliefs provide me adequate protection against a virus."
Which science? The science that says if you're vaccinated you're good to go with no mask or social distancing or the science that says you're still a carrier and should wear a mask and distance?
From the link: "However, the trials did not measure whether a person who is vaccinated is less likely to spread the virus to someone else."
That's the issue with the accelerated rollout. No long term efficacy studies, No long term clinicals. THAT is my issue with the vaccine. And decisions are being made as though this has undergone the typical 5-10 year study with mutliple groups, long term side effects, actual efficacy of the vaccine. Is it like 90%, or more around 40-50% as with the myriad of other flu vaccines. Add on top contradictory information from the CDC and it's no wonder there is skepticism and distrust.
Massive innoculation sites with ZERO oversight. How can there be? Gonna track via ID? Massive HIPPA violations. Enrolling every Tom, DIck and Mary off the street to administer vaccines? Ya, phuc dat.
I'd like to think it's about health and safety. And not how compliant and easily controlled the masses are when faced with the biggest global crisis man has known, other than climate change.
The CDC within several days has stated both that if you get the vaccine you don't need to distance or wear a mask AND you can still be a carrier and should still where a mask and distance. SMFH..... Must be that "imperfect" science. So which is it, opinion or fact that the CDC issued. Or can I form an educated opinion on contradictory statements from the government entity overseeing this shit-show.
Actually, it seems that we've come "full circle", on much of it.
Examples: Kids don't carry enough of a viral load to be vectors, transmission by surfaces is extremely rare, transmission by asymptomatic patients is extremely rare.
Same stuff they were telling us a Year ago (basically, knowledge acquired from other known Covid type viruses).
Strangely, talking points and "official statements" from the WHO and CDC, seemed to undergo fluctuations over the last Year, based on the Political Climate.
Bowbender, I wasn't speaking to a "split decision" the CDC might have offered. If they are speaking out of both sides of their mouth that doesn't discount what I said. Science is, in fact, imperfect and iterative. Feel free to disagree with that if you want, but you will be wrong if you do. What the CDC did is really unrelated to what I said. The CDC decides policy and the people who decide that policy can obviously use it however they see fit. Just because they purport to use science to direct their decision making doesn't mean they won't make stupid decisions and contradict themselves (as you point out). Science is imperfect, but policy makers with political agendas are much more imperfecter! ;)
I don’t see the contradiction?
I think the lockdowns are total BS. If you compare California with some of the strictest lockdowns to Florida who was relatively open during this whole thing:
Florida: 8.975% of the population has gotten Covid with a death rate of 0.146% California: 9.098% of the population has gotten Covid with a death rate of 0.137%.
Wonder what percentage of people in California had there lives destroyed by the reaction to the virus?
They locked my grandma up to save her from Covid but really ended up killing her. But the media doesn't want to talk about that narrative.
Those comments only seem contradictory because they are either misquoted or actual quotes which have been truncated in a way that changes their meanings.
The CDC stated that people who are fully vaccinated can be maskless and not socially distanced from other vaccinated people or with unvaccinated people who are not high risk.
They then suggest wearing a mask when in public -where the vaccinated could encounter high risk people.
With the context added back in, can you share how you think those statements ate contradictory?
I have a friend who’s dad is dying. He has pneumonia in his right lung, a UTI, an infection in his heart, and an aortic valve that’s leaking. He’s been in the hospital for 8 days. The doctors called his family today and told him that he was going to die. That he was still awake and that they had better come see him while he was.
The man has been married 61 years to the same women, they raised three kids, have 4 grandkids, he’s a Korean vet, and was as tough a human God ever put on this earth. But, he’s basically died alone due to Covid restrictions. And, instead of spending the few days he had left with his loved ones, he’s spent it in a hospital surrounded by strangers. And, yes he is Covid negative.
I keep reading all this BS about saving other people. I set with my wife for 10 days, in the same house, maskless, cooking, cleaning, sleeping with her while I had Covid. She never got it. I know many others just like that.
The point I’m making is the internet is full of people that want to preach the science that Faucci preaches. Yet, make smart guy comments about other people who choose to believe what other professionals are saying. And, what they’ve experienced. As if to imply they are beneath them. They keep posting all the “science”, then make excuses for it when it changes.
It’s just stupid. This virus is going to kill more people. Not one thing I do is going to change that. Wearing a mask isn’t going to stop you from transmitting it unless you are a paraplegic with no arms or hands. Not acknowledging the fact that people infect others by touching that mask, then transmitting it that way, is the most defined example of naive and dumb as you could ever find. But, keep telling everyone about your science. That’ll change things.
I am scheduled for my 2nd dose April 1st which I will do to get my Vaccination proof as I’m flying a lot and traveling across Canada and out of Country it’s going to be easier with my proof of having both had this and been vaccinated.
People who continue with the notion that people communicate the virus through touching contaminated surfaces is one of "the most defined example of naive and dumb as you could ever find."
From the linked article: "But Goldman, a microbiologist at Rutgers New Jersey Medical School in Newark, decided to take a closer look at the evidence around fomites. What he found was that there was little to support the idea that SARS-CoV-2 passes from one person to another through contaminated surfaces. He wrote a pointed commentary for The Lancet Infectious Diseases in July, arguing that surfaces presented relatively little risk of transmitting the virus2. His conviction has only strengthened since then, and Goldman has long since abandoned the gloves."
Justin, one of these days news from mid-2020 will reach West Virginia. You just need to be patient....
As believers we could ascribe that occurance to answered prayer, however, nobody so scientifically minded would accept our evidence, and that itself is nothing new in this world of blind faith in whatever is today's announced science fad. That's just the way it is and will continue well beyond anyone's patience.
Wait. Masks work so well. That’s what you’ve been saying. Which is it? If masks work so well, the. How is it we’ve had these explosions in cases? Mask mandates have been a very real variable through this all. Maybe they don’t work well? Nah, can’t be. Because you said so.
You can’t argue from both sides. Plus, it’s hard to accept uncommon logic when the science demands logical reasoning concerning the real world results. Unless of course, your whole point is to be contradicting.
If transmission only occurs by inoculation through the eyes and vapor into the mouth, etc.... we got a lot of people touching something that has the virus the touching their eyes. Or, they spend a lot of time in someone’s face who has it.
Keep on being a wise guy. I’ve yet to post anything with as much pertinent information explaining how inept some of this research is. Yet, you hang on it like a gotcha point. SMH.
I am now eligible and on the list in my county, waiting for their notification.
Interestingly, 10 days after donating blood I received notification that they test all donations for SARS/COVID antibodies. My results were negative but they cannot guarantee the accuracy of the test.
I know many believe the lockdowns are about control. I am willing to bet if politicians refused lockdowns they would have been accused of trying to control the population by allowing people to die, Bill Gates would be accused no doubt and Cuomo would be given credit for keeping Social Security solvent.
Justin, I was in Carrollton, MO this weekend. I was in the tiny minority wearing a mask in Orschelan’s even though a sign on the door said facial covering was required. I bet that is not the only place not abiding by the mandate, but hey I don’t want to mess with your logic.
Given essentially zero risk to you, and potentially solid gains to you and the community around you, it's worth it.
I like this one facet approach of the “science only” crowd. It’s impeccable to common sense. SMH
Covid-19 update. I don't understand everyone being so secretive about covid so I'm opening up about my experience. I'm guilty in thinking this was merely an over reaction to a new cold virus. I was one of those skeptics and guys who thought I would not get sick or be asymptomatic. That was until I got Covid-19. It has absolutely whipped my ass! I'm a very active, don't slow down healthy 40 year old guy. I go to gym at least 4 days a week and stay active on the the weekends. This virus has completely humbled me and scared me at times. I've experienced every symptom under the sun and a few that aren't even listed. It's such a yo-yo virus. One day your fine, next day you feel like your dying. It effects everyone different. I've been in close contact with 3 of my closest friends who are also positive (surely contracted from me at hunting camp) and it has just beat them up. There is no real time line on feeling better, there are some lasting effects including heart and lung damage that just scares me. I write this now completely dizzy and exhausted, Its my tenth day since symptoms started.
It's scary how contagious it is. Just my inner circle and families of those I have been with have been so effected by this. Imagine your child cannot go to school, play sports, trick or treat, or see friends or family for 14 days because they are living in a house with positive cases. It's a huge burden on family. I've been in the same house as wife and daughter and I've not seen them for more than 5 minutes in 10 days. Autumn has to wait on me as I cannot leave the room. She is basically a prisoner because I'm sick. The ripple effect is unbelievable. In the time your in quarantine you left thinking about your contact with others. Who you may have infected, your lack of diligence in reducing virus spread and how it has effected the lives of co-workers, friends, family. That's a burden on me, thats something often not mentioned with this virus. It not only effects you but so many others. I'm a new believer in masks, it can slow spread and for that I will advocate for the use of them. I don't wish this on anyone. If there is anything you can do to keep yourself healthy and safe and prevent lasting effects on friends and family I encourage you to do so.
I'm blessed to have an amazing wife to help me through this. So grateful her work is understanding with her absence. Thankful to her coworkers who have to fill in for her. Not everyone has that. I am beyond thankful I work with an amazing crew of guys who pick up my slack and will do anything possible to ensure we continue to serve our customers in the basin. I couldn't imagine what our business would be like without them. It's unbelievable to see them rise up amid so much chaos. I have supportive friends and family who's well wishes and support make it easier. Not everyone is as lucky. I simply ask you be considerate of others. This virus will not be exclusive to you with it's impacts. We have to start thinking more about our community, our friends, and out families.
Justin, the establishment has the right to ask customers to comply, I have the right to go elsewhere if I don’t agree.
Good advice I received since a very young man...don’t go looking for trouble and you probably won’t find any, but if it comes, be ready. I have tried to adhere to that.
A really big burly guy in front of me wearing a red MAGA hat had no mask. He gave me that look of disdain.
I asked the cashier why no one had a mask on, could I take mine off. She replied they could not force people to wear one. I laughed and said I wouldn’t try and force the customer before me to wear one and that he probably thought I was a wimp. She replied she thought real men complied with the restriction, I told her how smart she was;-)
He was a big man, but there were three of us...myself, Smith, and Wesson. LOL.
We are in a pandemic with an airborne pathogen and Justin thinks covering your mouth is dumb. Let that sink in for a little bit. Then has the gall to claim common sense.
CC from way back, when you had to take the classes. Shield 9, never leave home without it, with me even on campus. Believe it or not.
The solution to this grand mystery is actually pretty simple. 1.) Masks are meant to contain respiratory droplets that the wearer would otherwise expel into the environment which could be inhaled by or contact the mucous membranes of others, and not to protect the wearer from droplets expelled by others. You seem like an observant fellow, so you've no doubt notes that, when a person wears a mask, the mask is closer to their mouth than the mouths of the people standing 6 feet away. This is key, as the mask contains many more droplets expelled by the person wearing it than it is protecting the wearer from droplets expelled by people who are standing 6 feet away - who are presumably also wearing a mask. This is why virologists have determined there is very little risk of spread through touching contaminated surfaces, as the viral load one can be exposed to is generally not enough to result in disease. 2.) Masks only work when worn. As to the conundrum of why we have seen surges in the disease despite mask mandates (or, from your perspective, why masks worked, and then they didn't, and then they did again), it is a simple study in human behaviour. People do not all follow the rules. I would imagine this is especially true of those who don't believe masks work. The fall surge correlated very highly with winter weather which forced people in doors and with the holidays during which many people travelled to see family despite recommendations to the contrary by health experts. Then...masks miraculously started working again once people stopped travelling to see family after the holidays.
I've personally never looked at any of these measures (masks, hand-washing, distancing, and the vaccine) as anything more than fractional help...a slice of the pie in each. But put all of them together and used every day, the individual odds of escaping serious disease are improved. That's all. Not guaranteed. I still think people have the right to decide how they feel about this. I really wish our health practices weren't being politicized either way, as it tends to exacerbate misinformation generated to support a political leaning. Again...that unfortunately goes both ways. Most of us just want to be healthy, protect our loved ones, and compromise our lives to the least extent possible.
They prevent cancer as well?
When someone's obvious political ideology does their thinking on health issues, time to quit listening!
In 3...2...1... we get the avalanche of Vit D "cures" covid and this is all a scam to get Biden elected and make money for big pharma and 3M so they can make tons of masks!
Sorry, I try to avoid sarcasm, but I'm getting grumpy in my "old" age...
That's a mouthful. Good advice whether you sport a red hat or wear a Vote Biden mask outside jogging alone.
Pfizer/Moderna vaccines provide 97% protection against hospitalization and death and 94% protection against getting the virus at all.
Translation: We could get rid of this thing if everyone gets vaccinated.
At this point, personally, I consider it an act of patriotism and love of thy neighbor to get the vaccine. It's a shame that political ideology is using patriotism erroneously to cause the inverse and hurt us all.
I'm not saying that everyone shouldn't have a choice, but this country has a history of pulling together and sacrificing for the good of the nation and the good of the world.
We should be leading on this, not following.
And the world won't end in 12 years from global warming if you'd hurry up and trade your gas guzzling truck in for an electric one!!
Got my shot scheduled for March 20. Not sure what flavor I will get but I'm not scared of any of them.
I take multis and vitamin C daily for over 40 years. So did a friend that died from pancreatic cancer. Is my sample accurate or is yours?
Answers: diseases are more complex than simple answers and I will place more faith in folks that dedicated a lifetime to studying them than some narcissistic blow hard, whom I voted for both times Glunt. Maybe some day both sides will get past the binary thinking...Orange Man bad/god.
Not when they're both being pushed by the same sheep herders union!!
Also, the medical community and climate scientists are different groups. Where would you go if you cut your leg off? NASA? JPL?
Covid has been hard on aerospace manufacturing.
If these shots don't get the economy back on track at least somewhat, we are in for a very tough road ahead IMHO.
Outside the Faucci cult, there seems to be a lot of health professionals that agree. But, some don’t like common logic or anything that presents as a logical conclusion.
Far enough is having men telling everyone how to think and act. Do your thing and allow others to do theirs. It’s pretty simple. Remember, your mask will save you. Three will absolutely save you.
Take care and God Bless you men.
And no, you can't use humans as test subjects and intentionally expose them, so you can't run that kind of a study. You can only test people who've gotten the vaccine for active infection and compare it with people who haven't had the vaccine - just as they compare people who've had the vaccine and get hospitalized and/or die vs those who haven't.
The numbers are still remarkable. And no swamp creature US politician boogeymen to blame for the numbers for the conspiracy folks.
First shot, 3/23, second 4/21.
Moderna. Getting them for my wife, but even if not married would still get them;-)
And its for anyone I come in contact with. Lord knows my business depends on interacting with the public. I need my job so I can provide, live and have the ability to hunt...lord willing.
From what I've seen, at this point, it's hard to say more than "maybe" for Vit D saving the day with C-19...
Now, it's Vit D and many people living in the north are low, so... what the heck. I do not see evidence showing high functionality in stopping covid. it seems to fall into early HCQ issues where the research is to murky and as better research is done any potential benefit melts away. But there may be other reasons to take D (you live in the north for example) so go for it.
Those of you getting the shot - good on you! Well done!
Like I said before, somebody believes it works. Even if the bowsite promaskers don’t.
29,000,000 cases (prob underestimated)
529,000 deaths (prob overestimated)
Even if the death toll is grossly overestimated, hundreds of thousands of people have died from this. And in addition to all the deaths, there are many many people with serious and lasting effects from the disease. I know personally quite a few people that are dealing with effects months after “getting over” the virus.
With millions and millions of doses of the vaccine already given, it is pretty credible that the chances of serious side effects are very low
Not trying to convince the non vaccers to get one. You have made up your mind. But for those sitting on the fence, the predominance of science says you are safer with the vaccine than the disease.
I am also tired of getting up each day with a little fear that today might be the day I get it. I want to feel a semblance of normal again and for me that means getting the vaccine. I would rather take a known extremely low chance with the vaccine vs the Russian roulette of the virus.
And as I always say...everyone has the right to decide for themselves. For myself, I’m doing everything possible. And actually I’m doing it for my family.
529,000 deaths (prob overestimated)"
Then the 1.8% fatality rate is significantly lower. Right?
"I want to feel a semblance of normal again..."
Sorry, this IS the new normal. The government keeps moving the goal of when a sense of normalacy will return. Remember, once given, a government will never freely return control to its serfs. Look at how we allowed governors to destroy state economys with their heavy handed and punitive EO's.
"I would rather take a known extremely low chance with the vaccine vs the Russian roulette of the virus."
Yeah.....about Russian roulette. See above. You think Russian roulette is a virus that has a ~99% survival rate.
Then explain all the less than 30 year olds and kids. Please.
But here’s a fact.
mRNA – Also known as messenger ribonucleic acid, mRNA is the only active ingredient in the vaccine. The mRNA molecules contain the genetic material that provide instructions for our body on how to make a viral protein that triggers an immune response within our bodies. The immune response is what causes our bodies to make the antibodies needed to protect us from getting infected if exposed to the coronavirus.
I respect freedom of choice and opinion as well.
That's all we ever hear. Never, "get some exercise, quit eating shit, lose the fat, get outside, improve your immune system."
Americans are fat, weak, and easy to kill.
Those of you who've had difficulty finding an appointment might try Walmart's GoodRx website. The Walmart pharmacies are linked to the federal (and not being administered by State or County Health departments). They had a ton of appointments available here in TN as well as TX and IL. Give it a try, its worked for several of our friends.
the explanation is in the link. Read it. Here’s another https://www.heritage.org/data-visualizations/public-health/covid-19-deaths-by-age/
3710 out of 500k people under 30 have died from Covid so far . You can bet that a high percentage of them had underlying health conditions and or obesity. 80% of all deaths the people were obese. This whole killing of the economy could have been easily avoided by locking down the elderly and people with obesity and people obesity related health conditions.
That would be downright un-American to do all those things. And yeah....the medical community has been preaching this for decades without success. Probably 1/3 of the health care professionals in the U.S. don’t eat right and could lose some weight.
Doubt that will garner much support!
Agreed.....and I bet it's much higher than 1/3. Except Idylwild. He needs to eat a few more cheeseburgers. :-)
I am 63. Your statistics. puts me at 6.7% chance of dying.
That’s pretty high odds in a game of Russian roulette. My odds of dying from the vaccine are Aprox 1 in 90,000. That is a 0.000011 chance. I’ll take those odds.
“ If you are not obese , diseased and under 65 you really have nothing to worry about”
Guess we don’t need to worry about those people. They brought it on themselves by being older, obese, or diseased. We don’t really need people with diabetes around anyway.
I’m 63 also. I had Covid , it was a runny nose for two days. Work out 7 days a week since I was 15. Zero prescriptions next to zero alcohol and sugar.
Reminds me of my favorite Ben Shapiro quote. Love him or hate him, it's so true:
"Facts don't care about your feelings."
The point here being that those who imply outcomes are binary (you survive and are fine or you die) are idiots.
Glunt, I agree, compassion for all, that’s what makes the human race special, and real tough guys know that.
I am just tired of the ‘here’s how it is’ crap when there is still much to learn about this health challenge. Tired of the binary choice of we agree on everything or you are my enemy. And tired of keyboard tough guys, most are just blowhards.
I have lived an almost normal existence through this. I am pushing my college to allow those of us who want to be back in the classroom, students and faculty, to do so. I have continued to go to stores and restaurants as much as I felt I wanted to. Being married to a dental hygienist, I have long practiced good hygiene. I wear glasses, the masks are a real pain with fog. I wear them to respect others, but when not required I keep my distance and do not wear one. I exercise daily, and take vitamins and silver biotics. I am outdoors working on habitat several times a week, a very active guy.
Just get tired of punk a$$es who think they are someone special. Reminds me of the blowhards in USMC OCS who showed up on the first day and told everyone how bad they were. They were some of the first to DOR. On any given day there is always someone badder and tougher, and the loudest mouth in mocking others is typically the most insecure. And Jack, in case I am not being direct enough I meant you. The guy at Orschelan’s, he broke eye contact first bud and you know what I am saying.
I sometimes wonder what the narrative would be if this pandemic primarily took the lives of children under age 15 and possibly having a predisposing condition. Would we value their lives more ..... or would we be as quick to write off their loss as we are the older population?
You mean like people that imagine a big mean MAGA man staring them down in the restaurant and someone telling everyone it was him ,me and my buddy Smith and Wesson, That kind of fake tough guy?
Kevin, how is pointing to the death statics writing off the older population? How is suggesting that the people most vulnerable be the ones that take precautions instead of those who are not at risk a bad idea?
Matt, if we are going to mange by corner cases then people have died from the vaccine , pretending that the cure is binary is idiocy.
Not just hand wringing...I would love to know how many are getting vaccinated, or have already, that used to claim this was all an international hoax to get rid of trump. I see one who was in that group is now getting the shot. I guess add hypocrisy or they have seen the light?
OTH, thanks to you guys that did admit to getting the shot and helping to convince others to do so. Kudos to the OP.
Wife and I are 2 weeks from our 2nd moderna shots
Where have you been? Have you ever heard of "democrats"?
You're the type guy I'd love to meet face to face, just to see if you are as tough in person as you come across on your keyboard. I doubt it.
I consider it an act of love and patriotism to let the people that might die get the shot first. After everyone over 40 that wants the vaccine has had it, then I might be a patriot.
Look, consider yourself lucky that you had mild Covid symptoms. Millions of people weren't/aren't so lucky. Your notion that only the highest risk people should be the ones to sacrifice for the overall safety of our society would be laughable, if it wasn't so pathetic.
BTW, did you ever consider the fact that you contracted Covid may mean you aren't as bullet-proof as you think?
(I'm hoping my intense craving for human flesh goes away soon though)
“Your notion that only the highest risk people should be the ones to sacrifice for the overall safety of our society would be laughable, if it wasn't so pathetic.”
You miss the point , they sacrifice for their own safety, no one else’s. For People in the low risk group the high risk group isn’t a threat they are not protecting anyone but themselves. It’s the flu for the low risk . All these measures have done years of damage to the lowest risk group,kids. The numbers don’t lie.
I didn't miss your point. Using your twisted logic, it could be argued that anyone who contracted Covid has an inherently weak immune system, and they should sacrifice their lifestyles for the overall safety of our society. How would you like that narrative?
Perhaps you should head down to the border, set up a revival tent, and preach it to the our newly invited guests. You know...the ones that don't give a shit about us, our families, or any other American citizens. Perhaps you can wait until they fly the illegals into your hometown for redistribution. Tell them they need to get the shot before they get all of their free shit! SMH
You don’t understand much yourself. Italians are huggers and gatherers, no matter what the government says. Point being, there are lots of variables at play besides what policies were instituted. Since you feel comfortable concluding frequently what most people do, I comfortably conclude you are one of those who only see information that confirms your pre-existing biases.
Jack you also have a leg up on us who haven’t had the virus yet. You know you are in the “mild” case category. Chances are 94% that my experience with Covid, if I do contract it, will be similar to yours. But I have seen friends of mine in that 6%. And not just obese or with medical issues.
And you ignore the aftermath. As stated already multiple times: it ain’t just the death statistics. You could prob double or triple that 6% when you include those that will have long term and possibly lifelong problems after “getting over” this virus.
And as also stated: if this was only killing children, we would not be having this discussion.
You are entitled to your opinion as am I. Good hunting!
How many have died from the COVID vaccine? How many have long-term or permanent health implications from COVID? How many have died from COVID?
The idiocy here is trying to compare the first to either of the other two.
While the deaths that have occurred following vaccination, even if 100% was due to them - although none has actually been attributed to the vaccine, you would still be ~1,000x more likely to die from COVID.
Ding ding ding! Spot on Matt! There are risks associated with getting the vaccine and risks associated with not getting it. People should compare those risks and make their own decisions. To suggest neither choice has any risks is simply wrong. But for most people, the risks of getting covid far, far outweigh any risks associated with getting the vaccine. My read of the risks comparison is crystal clear, but others conclude differently. Unfortunately, the amount of misinformation factoring into many people's decision is very troubling (this thread being an excellent source of much misinformation).
I hope the Medical Community has done a better job with the mRNA " vaccine " than they have done with treatment protocols in 2020. Seems like a lot of unnecessary deaths to me, since they know all the answers... The " experts " thought Agent Orange was the best thing since sliced bread too, in the early '70's.
Good luck to all.
Just scroll down the list of thread contributors at the start, and click on the last name, or the first one for 'today'.
I was scheduled for 4/16, however my son told me about CVS Pharmacy shortcut that lets you know when the vaccine is in stock so the appointment can be made. My first one is today and second on 4/6.
Even though when you go to the web site, and the pharmacies are “ Fully Booked” the creators of the app and texts send you the information updated in real time.
Just though I’d share some good info.
Link is provided below.
But please do get yours soon.
How many stories like this do people have to hear before they realize this is not just another virus??!!
Then explain all the less than 30 year olds and kids. Please.
But here’s a fact.
mRNA – Also known as messenger ribonucleic acid, mRNA is the only active ingredient in the vaccine. The mRNA molecules contain the genetic material that provide instructions for our body on how to make a viral protein that triggers an immune response within our bodies. The immune response is what causes our bodies to make the antibodies needed to protect us from getting infected if exposed to the coronavirus.
I respect freedom of choice and opinion as well.
At this point, I don’t think anyone knows. So, I’ll take my antibodies and go on with life right now. And, have zero plans on getting it.
What was his reasoning? Some have suggested a policy that those who have natural immunity due to a COVID infection in the past 90 days delay to allow those who have not to get the vaccine to maximize societal protection.
While I believe the research is limited, from what I have read the response with the vaccine following being COVID positive results in a significantly higher level of antibodies and there is a belief the protection may be more durable than natural immunity.
Gladly! Thank you for your service to fellow Americans for standing in the breach to let others have immunity from a horrible disease that picks no favorites and runs some folks over with ease and barely touches others.
Thank you so much! I figured it would be May before I got my first. Sitting at the table waiting my 15 min after second this very second :-)
My qualifications: just a veterinarian that knows a little bit about diseases and “herd immunity”. Hope we get there by summer
I'm supposed to get my 2nd Pfizer shot 4-16, I've heard some people feel bad after the 2nd shot. I'm going ahead with the shot anyway, and be done with it.
Tried for 6 weeks in CT and nothing available. Walked into a Right Aid here in Ohio (first time) and got the shot.
Feeling bad after the shot, to different levels, is expected. It's your body learning how to fight off the disease. It means your immune system works!
Both doses of Moderna, 10 minute wait each time, slight headache the first day after the first shots nothing the second time. There's a lot we don't know about this virus. May never know. But for me the shot was worth risk.
I fasten my seatbelt, too, and not because the gubmint requires it.
Me too but I have to say as a youngster my Daddy required it as did I with my kids. My 16 yr old son tried to test my resolve on that issue and I pulled over and told him we would stop and let him out and pick him back up on the return trip. He fastened it.
I took Ibuprofen and will see if it does anything tonight or tomorrow.
62, non smoker and non drinker, fitness buff, pilot, family man, outdoor enthusiast.
Took his lungs out.
He wasn't old enough for the first vaccine administration, unlucky I guess.
Sample sizes of 1 are dangerous.
With no vaccine, 10% of people got Covid and 98% of those recovered. If a majority of people get the vaccine and it works, the risk for unvaccinated people should plummet.
Our county is very rural and lightly populated. We’ve had 52 deaths here r/t the virus. I’m friends with a couple of guys who own funeral homes. Both of them contracted the virus within 3 months of its arrival. Both told me they were very sick, but rode it out at home. Both have prepared bodies of those who died from covid, and have seen the final outcome. They’ve both told me about tragic deaths and subsequent funerals for people in their 40s and 50s. Finally, both of them got the vaccine and now publicly encourage its acceptance.
I lost a good friend last year. Think of him every day. I had another who had a brush with death and pulled through. They wanted to intubate him but he refused and toughed it out. His weight is still way down. It’s real and scary for sure. I can’t imagine anyone not wanting to get the vax at least at some point.
1 caught it when it was first hitting the states and another when he was in italy. They both got reinfected about a year later.
This should tell you all you need to know about where this is going.
I presume you are unaware that the 2020 US mortality estimates were released last week and heart disease - which apparently no one dies of any more - was the #1 cause of death. But go on, learn us more please...
I don't have the patience or maybe the smarts to explain clinic trials to you. But I worked for big pharm for about 15 years. I get clinic trials. The statically probability of the results being "luck" are probably similar to you when the power ball 3 times in a row.
The main reason we still do the precautions is because 1) most businesses here have signs on the door requesting mask use, 2) we have always practiced good hand hygiene as we’re both health care professionals, and 3) we have supported the 3 Ws from the beginning and think it’s still the socially responsible thing to do until the infection rate (% +) drops to low levels. And as I always say, we avoid judgment and think everyone has the ultimate right to decide how to live in their own spaces.
Pardon my skepticism, but the results for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were released in 2020 and were leading story/front page news. If you cared, you'd know.
Those vaccines have an effectiveness in the mid-90% range. To suggest that it is pointless if they are not 100% effective is simply ignorant.
Consequently- One of our health care providers here that had his second shot about 2 months ago has Covid pretty bad this week.
My clinic is doing a terrible job notifying their patients. They only get 100 doses a week. My wife got ill for a good 36 hours after her second shot, which is common.
The vaccines have been a blessing. There is no reason to not get it at this point other than being stubborn and/or holding to some righteous partisanship - ie: cutting off your nose to spite your face.
On the other hand, it would be interesting to know what killed the 3 who died because I believe the number of COVID deaths in the clinical trials which had many times more participants had essentially 0 deaths or even hospitalizations.
Not sure about Michigan, but it sounds like Quebec and Ontario (as well as BC) are getting hit with the UK variant (B.1.1.7) which is acting more quickly, sickening much younger people, and they are claiming has a death rate that is ~50% greater than the original.
Politicized, yes. Exaggerated? I have seen some obvious examples of instances where COVID was allegedly listed as the cause of death where it obviously was not, but is the total exaggerated? I do not think so. Excess deaths in the US in 2020 was 523K. While certainly not all were due to COVID, it makes the 345K 2020 US COVID deaths believable. Some medical experts are saying that COVID deaths were likely undercounted given the significant lack of testing capacity early on, which is likewise plausible given the excess death figure.
My wife and I got the second dose yesterday evening. This morning she is fine - I feel "woozy", weak, and slightly feverish. In fact, I didn't feel up to my scheduled bow practice this morning.
At 68, with mild asthma, a history of bronchitis and pneumonia, and slow growing (?, lol!) prostrate cancer, I'm still glad that I got it no matter what the statistics are.
More annoyed that my bowstring broke on the first shot of the evening!
I saw this on Facebook this AM and found it interesting. Where I live never shut down, never masked, never did anything and here are our current numbers. We are rural which helps for sure too. Sure wish Canada could figure things out and open the border.
At less than 0.03%, with a good immune system, vitamin D, and ivermectin, I’ll take my chances versus the potential side effects that may not show up for years...
Actually quite surprised there has not been a major uprising over the stripping of everyone’s rights, freedom, and so many people’s livelihoods over all of this insanity.
Will certainly continue to pray for our country and all the people affected by this insanity.
Most people I know that have caught the virus had very little symptoms, one person died.
Really? No. Really? A vaccine that is less than one year old has major data? Long term efficacy? None? Long term side effects? None. WE are the clinicals and long term trials. And THAT is my issue with the vaccine.
Amazing, isn't it, that the same people who support the breaking of laws by tens of millions of illegals will turn around and attempt to shame actual Citizens for even joking about circumventing a system that is actively being implemented to reduce our rights, freedoms and liberties. The leftist brain is truly addled.
bigswivle - let me know when you find a hook-up. ;o)
Obviously, the snowflakes who are so afraid of the China virus (or anything they're told to fear) they piss their pants at the thought of anyone not complying with Big Brother's marching orders. They are embarrassed for not standing up for themselves and their rights. So, they compensate by trying to ridicule or shame those don't need big gov to tell them what to do, how to do it and when.
That’s the problem with Google. You can find any position on any subject you want. Please post links to credible science that says ivermectin doesn’t help. I haven’t seen that. Quite a few that indicate it might be helpful.
Throughout history, the best minds and people among human kind have always been ridiculed for their taboo thoughts and beliefs. And, history has shown they weren’t that taboo at all. I’m pretty certain that’s the “science” of this virus.
I’m happy for those that’s got it. I’m happy it’s available. I think it’s likely safe. Especially in the short term. But, I’m willing to let my fellow man decide if it’s for him. Without all the shaming and condescending talk.
You almost stand a better chance of choking to death on a hotdog then dying from this. But, if it makes Dana and Matt feel better, let’s throw out logic and human rights. Yeah boy. Sign me up.
I'm more afraid of infecting a friend, or my brother, or one of my sisters. Or any of the people I come in daily contact with. But you all go on bleating about 'leftist politics.'
I have gotten my first vaccine because I have looked at the data and I believe it is safe and effective and I don't want to get the China Virus. With that said anyone I could infect if I didn't get it has had the choice to get it or not get it. Anyone high risk was eligible to get the vaccine long before me. If they don't get vaccinated and get the China Virus that is on them. It is not mine or anyone else responsibility to get a vaccine they are not comfortable getting to protect someone else that decided not to get vaccinated.
Get the vaccine if you are comfortable getting. Don't get it if you are not comfortable getting. If you are not comfortable getting that is your call, but no need to call out those that are comfortable getting it. Same with us that are comfortable getting vaccinated that is our choice. Not our place to berate those that don't want to get it.
I have significant concerns for humanity, freedom and God given rights. The last year has not given me much hope for humanity.
I truly would have never dreamed I would ever see so many Americans blindly run to follow all of the baseless unscientific mandates and rush to get a shot that has the potential of massively changing humanity. Blindly putting faith in the MSM, big pharma, big tech, and politicians that the jab is necessary.
Throwing away their basic human rights and demanding mine!
The attacks on religion, individual freedom, and censorship of anything not following the narrative are not what this country was founded on not what its people believed in. Not that long ago, our fathers, grandfathers, sons and daughters went to wars with other countries overseas to free their people from this kind of tyranny and oppression.
99.97% survivable. Far lower fatality than the flu. Improved treatment using safe, effective, inexpensive drugs that have been in use for many years with minimal side effects.
No, the FEAR has gripped far to many in this country and around the world. Hopefully people come to their senses and see how baseless that FEAR really was before it’s too late.
Hell, may already be too late.
Communism is the virus. Covid is just how it was spread...
I don't march in lock-step to the 'conservative' agenda, never have, but if you just have to label me, maybe try 'libertarian.' I might even agree ;-)
Is that logical thinking, or does that make me a Marxist nut sack that just does what the government tells me to do? Asking for a friend.
One warning about those counterfeit vaccination cards, don't get caught with one in MN or you might end up face down, handcuffed, with a knee to your neck/shoulders and unable to breathe.
Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and political freedom, emphasizing free association, freedom of choice, individualism and voluntary association. Libertarians share a skepticism of authority and state power, but some of them diverge on the scope of their opposition to existing economic and political systems
In fact that sounds a lot like Trump republicans.
Sorry that does not fit your post on here even a little bit.
I linked one of the few studies I read. My take away was that, although there were some measures that showed improvement with ivermectin, they fell into the statistically insignificant category. Not a treatment I personally would hang my hat on.
I do wonder how many guys have run down to the feed store after reading the comment....
I know two people who have died shortly after getting the vaccine due to blood clots. I personally don’t know two people who died from covid although I know there were deaths
Not if you comply with police officer orders. Glad to see you've come full circle on your cop-hating ways after all these years, HfW.
That was specifically posted for irrational, far right wing whackos like you that I knew it would agitate. Thanks, a good day when one can return fire;-)
And you are going to do that how exactly?
Matt - call, write, email, show-up, complain, bitch, drive them crazy, etc. until they actually represent us. Vote them out, support their opponents, boycott their backers, never let down. It takes work, but if they won't represent our views, they need to be made miserable. If they ultimately refuse to stop their tyranny, there is an enumerated right that addresses that issue.
The biggest problem is that too many don't care to be involved in the actual political process. Hence, I give no RINO, libtard or chicken-little any quarter when it comes to this stuff. I don't care if one is afraid of their own shadow, I refuse to be. I don't care if one wants the Indoctrination Inoculation, I refuse. If one wants to wear a behavioral control device on their face and jump on the virtue signaling bandwagon, good for them - I'm not interested.
What I am interested in is being able to live my life as outlined in The Constitution with a fedgov constrained by the same.
I don't back peddle or mince words. Only extremists like you will claim someone is a cop hater who is willing to call out the cops who abuse their authority, which is exactly what our FF would expect us to do. And the ones who abuse their authority are in the vast minority, like every profession.
And, I call those officers out whether they abused their authority against a minority or non-minority, whereas obviously we have seen some extremists who have different standards for minorities.
Looking forward to shot 2, in 3 weeks.
I tend to agree with Bob on a lot of his post. If you are unsure, talk to your medical provider and find out if they feel if it makes sense for you. They do, unquestionably, know more about it relative to you than anyone you will see on the news or read from in any online platform.
Also - Ivermectin and covid, please understand that Merck, who MAKES THE DANG STUFF has publicly noted it does NOT work for COVID. Zero. Ziltch. Bumpkiss. Tweedledee doo. Nada. Nuttin. They could make gazillions by just pretending it worked and trying to get folks to prescribe it (tough to do with zero evidence though)... https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/
Then again I have a friend who is still convinced it's a cure all because their chiropractor showed them a study about how in a petri dish it could kill covid - dish soap does too, just sayin... and despite the reams of evidence it does zero... the misinformation/pseudoscience world has kept pushing it a bit.
Also note, that the medical community wants, BADLY, to help every person they see. If you seriously believe physicians, NP's, PA's, etc would choose to stop (HCQ for example) using a drug or NOT use a drug (ivermectin for example) that had evidence it worked for some secret reason, you are wrong.
Matt, I never said or implied that. What I have said, multiple times and ways is that the damage done by closing down our country is FAR greater than the lives lost to the China virus. The control exerted over us, and welcomed by so many sheeple, has irreparably harmed our nation. Had we not imprisoned innocent, healthy people against their will, we may well have already achieved herd immunity. With forced isolation we may well have prolonged the time it takes to reach it. Regardless, I don't give a crap about a date certain on herd immunity. I give a crap about freedoms and being able to choose how to live for ourselves. No tiny scrap of possible safety or security is worth suspending or giving away our God-given rights as Citizens. If you're afraid, by all means wrap yourself in a bubble inside your home and refuse to interact with others, wear your behavioral control devices and volunteer to be a pincushion for big pharma. I truly believe you should have all those choices. Just don't force your fears and beliefs onto the rest of us by the heavy, punitive hand of govt.
If you didn't say that, what did you mean by your comment above?
I find it interesting that some people automatically ascribe "fear" as the reason that people would get vaccinated, perhaps it helps them rationalize their decisions? The things I am concerned about - not in fear of - are the economy, people's livelihoods, and the amount of debt our nation will be passing along to our children. The faster we are done with the pandemic-related restrictions, the better. If I have take on some risk of the unknown to advance the greater good, so be it. It used to be that self-sacrifice was an American value. Now it seems like some use terms like "freedom", "liberty", and "patriotism" as euphemisms for entitlement.
The “pandemic” restrictions were based on false premise with unconstitutional stripping of individual rights and freedoms.
You are justifying the striping of rights, freedom and pursuit of livelihood from your fellow man in your assertions. The forcible imposition of your will and beliefs on those that share a difference of opinion.
Step back, take a deep breath and think about what you are saying.
Is this the America you really want?
Writing letters to my congressman and playing Constitutional scholar on the internet are not going to get us there.
LOL, we’re rocking down here in Florida(way before vaccine ever was distributed). Sorry u live in a state that controls your life
Ironic. That's about the time the effectivness of the Pfizer vaccine starts wearing off.
Then.... we can "look at the rules we are being forced to live by and trying to chart the most practical and expeditious path out of it."
Kinda funny someone criticizes those that espouse freedom and constitutional restraint on government overeach and at the same time licking the boot upon their neck. Because complacency is the governments best friend.
I still have tournament plans for Maryland. New Jersey North Carolina and South Carolina No matter what
That's a lie, not surprising.
The China virus is real.
It is definitely the reason that a small percentage of people have died and another unknown, but still small, percentage have/will have lingering/lifetime complications.
Life is not without risk.
Bad shit happens all the time.
The United States was formed by brilliant men who acknowledged Man's God-given rights to live a life free from centralized government control.
In your current parlance, I *identify* as a free man.
In my never-changing parlance, I AM a free man.
I accept that MY decisions may have negative consequences for ME.
I reject that you, or anyone else, has authority over me.
I neither want, nor will attempt, to exert authority over you.
If one attempts to exert authority over me, they are an enemy of my freedom and me.
It's really that simple. The tenets of The Constitution are immutable. Being locked up against our will, being forced to wear behavioral control devices and having our free movements controlled by coerced medical procedures is unacceptable to me. I will not comply. The cost of subjugation is too great.
Worked in Pharma for 8 years. Have no reason to lie. This was an untested, unproven vaccine, dumped on an all too compliant society. Feel free to Google yourself. Study after study shows it's efficacy runs about 6 months. They "think" it should run longer, but given they've been wrong OR have changed positions numerous times, let's just say if I was a betting man, these restrictions and mandates will be in place for quite sometime.
This was a perfect opportunity or crisis for government at federal and state levels. And we know what the democrats think of a "good crisis". Not an anti-vaxxer by any means. Except for this one. And that is because of the timline and lack of long term data. Period.
We looked at the decision the same as we did long term care plans or insurance meaning "something you might not need -- until you need it).
Only reaction was our arms were sore and we were both tired as heck the day of the shot.
The day after the shot we mowed 5 acres and started getting ready to till last years food plots under.
It’s caused by all the illegal, excuse me, undocumented, migrants coming through our newly porous border.
I got vaccinated. I’m not a vaccine denier, but math matters.
Illinois has 57% of the population of Florida. Despite Florida’s aged population, not operating under a lockdown and its tourism, and with the “largest outbreak of new Covid cases”, Illinois has 55% of the Active Covid cases of Florida. What I would call a statistically insignificant difference.
Why is Florida running neck and neck with Illinois despite its demographics and tourism and lack of restrictions as risk multipliers? Would Illinois be worse off if it’s economy were freed?
Why no big difference?
In terms of new Covid cases, probably.
Thank you for your expert opinion Dr. GG
The following screen shots are from the CDC website. This is the latest info for a few states mentioned above. Libs are f'in idiots.
I’m just saying that there doesn’t seem to be a correlation like I would expect.
My oldest has asthma. I’m being as prudent as possible. We’ve been successful in avoiding Covid in my immediate family... so far.
Something else has to be in play though.
Logic dictates that Texas and Florida should have much higher per capita numbers than Illinois, but they don’t.
People can make fun of me for my precautions. I’m not going to change my approach. I’m pretty much simply following the directions that I got from my grandmother when I was a kid. Seems to make sense to me and I don’t think it’s onerous.
But I am sitting at work, within 100 yards of at least a half dozen businesses that have closed and many more that are in dire straits.
The lockdowns here have had a very real detrimental impact on real people and there doesn’t seem to be any real, readily visible benefit to the infection rate compared to areas that aren’t killing their businesses and destroying people’s livelihoods.
Could it be there are a lot of other factors at work as well??? Such as in my state of Texas. Here it could be that our big numbers of cases in the past (when we removed restrictions) along with our present massive vaccine program, are helping us reach some semblance of herd immunity.
You can pretty much make statistics say whatever you want them to say, but it’s never that simple.
So chase your beloved tarpon in Colorado, don’t come down here.
A thoughtful and well thought out post. You bring up valid points. And I agree with you: the time for keeping businesses closed or restricted is past. People can choose for themselves at this point.
But it does also, in my opinion, make vaccines more important presently to get out of this mess
I'm not disputing the economic impact that the shutdowns have had. But I do believe they served to slow down the spread of the virus. Whether the cost was worth the reward is for each to decide. The shutdowns had very little impact on my life. And like your family, we've been lucky to avoid getting infected. But I realize it's a different story for many.
I'm just tired of the hand-wringers whining about "loss of freedoms" and "behavioral control devices", as if those temporary measures were the end of the world. We're a society of laws and regulations, after all.
But to those that are thinking conservative = not getting Covid vaccine....... not true. As a staunch conservative and a veterinarian, for me it is about the science. And I don’t believe there is a world wide medical community conspiracy . Governmental control about what I do and where I go is a whole other subject.
Forcing unconstitutional measures on small businesses and actually knowing their business and financial lives will be destroyed should be unacceptable to anyone who values their freedom. Slowing the curve was supposed to last a couple weeks. Thirteen months in and still using the weight of the government to destroy lives can not be considered, "temporary measures".
And txhunter58 - those stats are the CDC's, not mine. If you look at the indoctrination inoculation percentages, TX is the lowest of the states I posted and well below the worst states in overall death rate. You read anything you want into this scamdemic to justify your cowering in the corner and support of punitive measures on those who want to live free - you have the right to be an idiot.
Yep. I’m just a guy on the internet. But I have the same medical degrees as Bill Gates.
Logic suggests that previous infections, vaccines and prudence should be having impact. I am not advocating for people to avoid the vaccine, disregard prudence and start licking gooey people.
I’m washing hands frequently, actively working to get more sleep, eat nutritious meals, exercise outdoors and because I’m Swedish, thus likely Vitamin D deficient, I’m taking Vitamin D and though I’m not a soda and crap food fan, I’m really avoiding anything with high fructose corn syrup which apparently affects Vitamin D. And I’m taking some other vitamins as well.
I never took vitamins before, but I figure that the $0.29 that I’m spending a day is inconsequential and even if it doesn’t help, it won’t hurt.
I have a buddy who’s a triathlete. He got Covid after Thanksgiving. It was a mild case, but he’s now one of the “Long Haulers”. It’s been about four and a half months and he still can’t run around the block.
I have people busting my balls from both ends of the spectrum every day. That’s OK. I’m going to do what I think is right or prudent with the limited info that I have.
I’m kind of like Goldilocks. I firmly believe that Covid is real and can be very serious. I have friends and family that have been impacted seriously and died. I also believe that the government has out stepped its bounds. Chicago politics originated the idea, “Never let a good crisis go to waste.” I think the government has gotten out of control and is headed further.
But I am aware of my own hypocrisies and work to explore them.
How about smoking in bars, concert arenas and restaurants? The government has the right to ban smoking from public places? If I were to choose to go to a bar with smoking that’d be my choice... and second hand smoke wouldn’t be coming home with me to kill an elderly family member or my kid with asthma.
How about asbestos and lead abatement? If I choose to work with asbestos and lead without proper protocols and protection, that’s my choice, right? And I can choose to bring that exposure home on my clothes to expose my kids when I hug them, right?
So, I guess that I’m just saying that this is more complicated than binary. And that I’m just a contrarian, agreeing and disagreeing with everyone.
It takes quite a few rationalizations for me to get through each day.
Excellent rational approach! And there are differences between the states, weather such as average temperatures, sun exposure etc. might even play a role.
Second shot scheduled for next week, but I do believe the government has gone too far at this point. The costs of closure seem to be much greater than the benefits, and I say this with the utmost respect for human life and not wanting any further deaths or debilitations. OB is taking personal responsibility and watching his own behavior, which we all must do. The government should provide the facts as they discover them to allow us to process the information and make better individual decisions, but we have to take calculated risks and move forward IMHO.
“ I'm not disputing the economic impact that the shutdowns have had. But I do believe they served to slow down the spread of the virus. Whether the cost was worth the reward is for each to decide. The shutdowns had very little impact on my life. And like your family, we've been lucky to avoid getting infected. But I realize it's a different story for many.”
“The shutdowns had very little impact on my life.”
1917 Spanish Flu...50 million plus deaths
Chinese Covid....3 million approximate deaths so far
BIG difference even considering counting errors that no doubt occurred.
More people exist today, greater densities, more travel etc. than in 1917. Maybe the shutdowns, improved sanitation, social distancing, better health care made that much of a difference? I find it hard to believe that this virus is as bad as predicted. Don't think it was a conspiracy, just think they got it wrong, but I have no health care training so my thoughts don't matter.
I'm not sure if your meme is intended as an insult, or not, but I'll take it as a compliment. I loved that movie and the character that Clint Eastwood played in it. It also had a good message about the merits of hard work, honesty, and overcoming racial biases.
Hackbow, I hope you find peace and happiness in your life, because it must be miserable living with your doom and gloom attitude.
How proud Pavlov would be...
Just some humor. No insult intended. I like the movie.
Please always default to assuming that I mean no harm with any of my posts. I’m an ex-rugby player. I’m not passive aggressive. More aggressive aggressive. If my desire is to insult, I will be direct and pointed.
As I alluded to earlier, my views don’t really align with anyone else’s and when they do, I still have contradictions that I have to rationalize.
Life would be very difficult if I needed everyone to agree with me. I’d have to be a hermit.
You can still get covid. Just lessons the effects.
You can still pass covid to others.
You still have to wear a mask.
We still have to lockdown.
So if what the experts are saying is true, you're really not protecting anyone. Accept maybe yourself, by it lessening the effects, if you do happen to contract it.
But get it for the greater good, because we tell you to. And try to shame anyone that doesn't agree with you regardless of what side you are on.
This is/was America! We used to stand for the rights of the individual.
Get it if you want, don't if you don't. But this BS of restricting travel, work, concerts, anything because you don't have a vaccine card, is a bunch of crap. Shaming people cuz they don't get the vaccine, or wear a mask because they are killing people, is another bunch of crap.
It is the dog being wagged by the tail.
Designed to lesson the severity of the virus and keep you out of the hospital and death
This is definitely interesting.
Habitat for Wildlife's Link
Figure out who pays them. Might also be enlightening to see where these “fact checkers” are from...
I did check the CDC web site and found the source material that the article I posted refers to.
Much more credibility than the MSM, that’s not a great standard, LOL.
The internet will provide “facts” supporting any view you already believe.
ummm...thats what a vaccine does.
The Covid-19 vaccine isn’t providing absolute protection....just as the influenza vaccines do not. It’s a matter of degree. It may help you completely avoid covid, or it may lessen your disease severity. If you consider yourself to be at an elevated risk of severe disease (I do, due to age and lack of a spleen) the benefits of vaccination probably outweigh the risk of unknown future effects.
How do they rate CNN? Has anyone seen the latest by project Veritas- James O'Keefe? Hilarious, the Technical Director goes out on 5 "dates", they have him on Audio/Video talking about making stuff up about Trump during the election and during his term (shocker), he literally called it propaganda. He said they made things up, like the time Trumps hand was "shaking" - and they had medical doctor after medical doctor on trying to say he was mentally unstable, because they had nothing else to go with at the time. He goes on to say, they covered for Biden during the election, etc etc everything we already knew. He said they will be pushing climate issue hard during the Biden admin to get the public softened for the new changes coming from them. I realize it wont go anywhere except on Fox - but its still funny (and sad) to watch.
I dont know how to post a link - came on on April 14 - Mediaite Reports CNN Guy Went On 5 Tinder Dates With Veritas Undercover Operative.
Habitat for Wildlife's Link
Here you go, same source. Maybe try researching before opining?
He expressed to me that Covid will likely continue forever. That going forward, the recommendation will end up being to get a flu shot annually in the fall and that Covid shots be done twice a year.
He said that these shots are important to get out as fast as possible to reduce transmission as quickly as possible. That reduced transmission and replication will reduce mutations and variants.
Every transmission ends up with replications that foster mutation as the copies of the copy occur.
Those mutations can render the virus less efficient or more efficient and potentially more deadly. Natural selection. The nastier versions are more successful. Especially with longer infectious incubation periods with asymptomatic transmission possible.
Supposedly, the pharmaceutical companies are already working to address the new variants, pouring piles of money and research into the process. The real concern is that this Corona virus could become more like the Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Variant which is more durable and robust AND be more infectious.
The new discussion about third shots as an additional booster is, according to him, all about reducing replication.
He said that is the reason for the push for large scale vaccinations and continuing with mask and sanitizing protocols afterward. That epidemiologists are not concerned with herd immunity to the current, thankfully less deadly than feared, current variants, but that there is real concern about a mutated variant resulting from the trillions of replications that are occurring daily.
He seemed reasonable and logical and intelligent and matter of fact. What say you guys here who have medical backgrounds?
Basically the information I received from multiple doctors in our circle and why we decided to get vaccinated. I believe it was Pfizer that already announced we will need annual boosters for the variants.
Of course the conspiracy types will conclude Big Pharma is just insuring continued profits and working with government jointly on a plot to control us. Really frustrating to witness the constant criticism of the media being biased and presenting one side while those with a penchant for conspiracies do exactly the same.
Actually it wasn’t rhetorical. It was a sincere question for anyone in the medical profession. I know that there are physicians and biochemists on this site.
I get it that there’s no way to vet them either, but there are some that I know of and respect.
Just trying to gain additional information and trying to better my understanding.
As I said in an earlier post. I’m choosing to be very prudent because my oldest has asthma. I get the math. I understand the statistics with kids, but the asthma is a risk multiplier and wild card and I’m an “essential” worker who’s been out and about in high a density population area the entire time. Any concern for myself is minimal. My concern regarding my child is much greater. If my stupid human tricks are the price to minimize risk to my kid, I’ll continue to pay that price.
Feel free to make fun of me if you wish. I’m married. I can take it.
Tank, apparently you aren’t as old as some of us. As a kid, I received a polio booster once a year. I didn’t mind, in fact I looked forward to that sugar cube.
Point is, medical science isn’t static, it’s constantly changing as more and more is l learned every day. Who knows if yearly boosters will be the norm. Like others, for me the short-term benefits of the COVID vaccination far outweigh any potential long-term effects.
I understand the other side of the coin mentality. I also understand that state health departments have made the same claims as the linked article has. You’d have to be living under a rock, extremely biased, or simply plain ignorant not to at least acknowledge that reality. But, I’m not as intent to make this a discussion as some. Nor, do I get my kicks on hackling people from a seat of condensation.
Frank, I’m glad to hear you say that. I was worried the unbiased, correct, and always truthful Wall Street journal had you dubbed.
I’ve yet to see where the OAN has ever blatantly lied or even been wrong for that matter. And, I’ve followed them for several years. I guess some will call it a conspiracy to choose a biblical source for unbiased news. In comparison to the MSM, I can’t see how any responsible adult could rationalize that though. But, it’s what’s kept this thread pumping.
Good day gentlemen.
I was responding to Habitat - see my post above. I asked how they rate CNN? Then posted the Project Veritos info.
But Habitat in his typical smug ass way - told me to research it. Like I need to research if CNN is biased.... that was the rhetorical question.
Jeepers I’m going fishing’!
PM sent as well.
Wasn’t trying to be smug, thought you were questioning if Media Bias would rate CNN as liberal.
know a few people who have gotten the vaccine because they fear the COVID and I'm okay with that. But they continue guzzling energy drinks, soda, McDonald's, sugary foods, and tons of other simple carbohydrates. Makes me chuckle.
...and, yes, HfW, freedom includes eating what you want right up until we get universal healthcare due to the result of our gluttonous American eating habits and lack of exercise that continues to drive up healthcare costs. Score one more for the dems.
Never heard of any of this going as fast as you are saying. Which vaccine did you get
I heard Pfizer may need a booster at some time but they were not sure at what point.
Just trying to gather info
Study after study is coming out indicating boosters will most likely be needed. In 6 months or so. So, we have a vaccine, where the general population is the clinical/trial study, pharma’s have indemnity, and all is paid for by the feds. Phuc dat. Whose the real winner?
That said, the wife and I are in no hurry to get jabbed. Mostly because we weren't eligible until recently, and the timing for the second jab would have been too close to our scheduled trip this week. So, we're going to continue to use the same precautions that have kept us COVID-free for the last year, and may consider getting a vaccine in June.
Doing better than I thought. Slight headache, some joint pain and fatigue but able to work.
Not sure if I linked these correctly. Not news. Just a couple doctors discussing the "vaccine". Definately worth watching. The second one is a little more technical, but in layman's terms, about how the shot works.
My father gave me some good advice growing up. 1. always order the mushroom swiss burger. 2. never take health advice from a semi-anonymous looney tune (Shawn Maygar/tank/hedgehunter) on an internet forum.
100% total crap.
Enter the second Moderna shot on April 10. The first night was rough as I’ve already said, then things began to ease up. After about three days I began to feel better. The symptoms still come to visit, sometimes twice a day, but they don’t last but a couple minutes and they aren’t anywhere near as severe as they were before. Tuesday I split wood from 7:30 until 4:00 and I’m headed to turkey hunt next Tuesday. The only reason I got the “vaccine” was to see if I could get rid of this crap once and for all. I hope I have.
Hopefully you symptoms continue to disappear.
Probably me. Which studies are those since you didn't link anything? I haven't found any studies that suggest that (and what I have read contradicts that), so I believe you are still wrong.
The studies I've looked at indicate the vaccine protection remains robust at 6 months. I linked the only article I could find that references a reduction in protection from the vaccine and it is only "expected" at this point based on what has been observed with those who have had the disease (natural immunity).
One has to remember that there are not a lot of people who have been vaccinated for more than 6 months + whatever time is needed to conduct/publish a study, so that is in essence as long a time horizon as the medical community can speak to.
From another recent article: "Analysis of 927 confirmed symptomatic cases of COVID-19 demonstrates BNT162b2 is highly effective with 91.3% vaccine efficacy observed against COVID-19, measured seven days through up to six months after the second dose."
That should not be misconstrued to imply it is less effective after 6 months, just that it hasn't been studied.
It seems that a vaccination record and negative Covid test within a day or two of travel should be enough to let people start traveling again. I suppose that makes too much sense though. Fingers crossed.
There is a balance to life and Liberty and the pursuit of happiness in all of our choices and sacrifices for the collective good.
Actually not even close
New York was the worst and the Javitts Center (sp) and the hospital ship were never used at all except for show
Damn peoples want to memories are so different than real memories are
Does not really matter I guess.
In the words of Ole Merle, ”if you don’t love it, leave it...”
Or for the truth. But why would that matter? Should we just let lies stand if the support your personal ideology?
To think we have people on this site who think it is only those on the other side who are sheep.
So, no worries. In like 8 years folks should be able to elect Marjorie Taylor Greene as president with Matt Gaetz as VP by, like, 10:1, and all will be good. Just a couple years. Patience. We will all be gone soon.
He he he :)
Hopefully my feeble attempt at humor came through there.
Be sure to where your mask.
Let me guess...oan, newsmax, gateway pundit maybe?
Why? If you’re getting the vaccine, what do u care about the people that aren’t wearing masks?
Really? That’s your rebuttal, cracking on news sources. Lmao!!!!
Here’s more blue anon
This chart is the same thing. If you take a sample of population centers, it's likely more people in those areas have COVID... Simultaneously, a higher % of those folks are D.
So you have more people who are D's in general, and certainly in population centers more D's... And more people in those areas have frequent contact with others thus those folks have higher rates of COVID...
It's like showing a chart of where people ice skate on ponds. Clearly the south has low levels of pond skating, the south is generally considered Red... So clearly republicans dont like pond hockey. That's the style of conclusion one can draw from the orange and blue chart above. It states an obvious, and people attempt to conflate that all sorts of stuff to go with it... Context matters with statistics (or anything - but we dont like that anymore and just live by meme and soundbite)...
Yes, cracking on those “news sources”...all day long. Gas lighting is their business model. You know you are in trouble when you adopt the “news” narrative (right or left) and ignore your own eyes, ears, and logic. Prime symptom of gas lighting. Just because it’s repeated over and over and over doesn’t make it true.
Jack- Cool that you watch Bill Maher.
"Just because it’s repeated over and over and over doesn’t make it true." - Similar to accepting sexual deviants as "normal", and boys can be girls, and girls can be boys, and so on...
Don't you love being preached to by a guy who defends and promotes sexual deviancy against the laws of God and nature, but wants to shame a person for making an individual choice regarding their own health?
I don't see anyone trying to FORCE others into NOT getting the indoctrination inoculation, but the list keeps growing for those who advocate for the government and businesses taking action against those who do not wish to. That fact alone tells me everything important about the issue. If one needs to force others into an action against their will, that person is living in abject fear and/or has no desire to allow anyone else to live a free life. If you're that person, you can f-off, or in KSFer's case, go bite a pillow.
It is not exactly your own health. If you decide to not get the vaccine and forever isolate yourself then that is your own health. If you don't vaccinate but want still mingle among the heard then it is not your own health that is at stake. It is called a communicable disease you idiot. You don't get the vaccine...great, it is your right. But don't complain about lockdowns, masks, or social distancing, or if private business don't allow you to participate. It's capitalism and it's legal. At least for now.
Ever see me post that you or anyone should be forced to get a vaccine? Nope.
"Normal" is a societal construct.
Matthew 7:1-5 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?"
I’m not saying we should do this at all. If every person in the world was vaccinated we could all but wipe out the existence of this virus. Just like we have done in the past with other viruses. Just like polio, tetanus, rubella, measles, whooping cough, mumps, chicken pox, etc. you can thank those before you for vaccinating.
We can return the favor for future generations. Your choice.
Also, you are trying to preach the Bible and Christianity while denying the Bible and many tenets of Christianity. Your sexually-deviant beliefs disqualify you as one I would listen to as an authority, or even reasonable voice, regarding anything.
"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?"
You are not my "brother" in any way, shape, matter or form. You promote sexual deviance as a norm. You openly mock scripture and stand firmly against biological fact. You openly mock those who would put Constitutional freedom above personal safety. You preach that I should get the indoctrination inoculation to protect everyone else, but if everyone else gets it, there should be no concern.
And speaking of communicable diseases, you may want to look at the statistics for sexual deviants that play in each other's backsides vs monogamous, heterosexual (normal folk).
I don't care if you get the indoctrination inoculation. You shouldn't care that I do. The fact that you do is telling.
I do not promote any lifestyle. I do promote letting others love who they want to love. I promote acceptance of people and against discrimination based on sexual orientation.
You really want to go there on gays vs strait with communicable diseases. Really, when only about 10% (give or take 5%) of the world are gay? Without looking at any sources I can tell you that is a losing argument just on shear numbers and statistics. Is your logic really that grade school? Seems like your backside is talented as it can type.
By the way, been in a happy monogamous relationship with my wife for 18 years. I am blessed to be in a happy marriage with an amazing women. Raised 5 kids to productive and good adults.
It seems those of fire and brimstone always seem to have the most skeletons in their closest. I wonder...
Beat it you hateful and hypocritical little man.
And I will never go away as long as the likes of you work to destroy this country with your socialist/communist policies; accuse Christians of being racist or xxx-phobic for stand on Biblical principles; or simply mock God.
I will stand for Jesus, our Constitutional Republic and biological fact. You stand opposed to all three, you and those like-minded are the hateful ones who must redefine words and obfuscate meanings to accomplish your godless, deviant and evil goals.
I’ll answer for all my actions someday and I’m comfortable with that because I know he knows me.
By the way, doesn’t the constitution protect “freedom of religion?” So how do you rectify that? Do you condemn the founding fathers for that? What about non-Christian Americans? Are they also deviants because they don’t believe in your God? You ever been divorced or have divorced friends? Are they deviants? I could go on and on. You got a stone to cast?
Did I miss the article that backs that statement? I'm no expert, but only time will tell if that's true. It has been only a few months since it's inception.
Regardless, you got me...touché
There is a strong indication that widespread vaccination could do just that against the current variants, but as you stated it is not conclusive at this point.
The rationale is that the viral load of those who get COVID and are 12+ days post-2nd jab is significantly lower than the unvaccinated and the theory is that should.make them less prone to infect others.
"“The results show that infections occurring 12 [days] or longer after vaccination have significantly reduced viral loads at the time of testing, potentially affecting viral shedding and contagiousness as well as the severity of the disease,” the authors wrote."
At the end of the day, the goal isn't so much to stop people from getting COVID but to keep them from getting sick enough to he hospitalized or killed by it. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are very close to 100% effective at that.
It is a big experiment as far as I am concerned. Make your own choices.
And lots of data that suggests otherwise.
If they ever open the border you will be good to go !!!
By calling out people making unsupported claims and providing actual studies that counter those claims? The only reason I can imagine you would find the truth so unpalatable is a fragile worldview.
Partially true but those supported and unsupported claims cut both ways
I feel perfectly secure in saying in the next five-eight years the data will support the truth. Not now
The world death toll is at 3 million. I'm betting it hits ten.
Dana - I'm betting we could save many more lives than you are whining about without forcing people to take the indoctrination inoculation. Hmmmm......I wonder what we could do?
So are you saying you think we will suffer the same demise as India?
Bryan, *in spite of* the anti-vaxxers we will not. On the whole we're way ahead of them in getting vaccinated. Too many of them will be dead before they have the chance we've been given.
The rest of the world is still in deep manure, and people here are more worried about whether they'll be able to go fishing in Canada.
Damned if you do...damned if you don't. But If you don't, you're a racist, and you don't care about the lives of millions of illegals coming over that might contract it from an American citizen. C'mon man!!!!
Lol...too f'n funny. Millions upon millions of lives destroyed for convenience sake, and this idiot wants to call out those who are skeptical of jumping when the fed government orders it.
Just as sensical as arguing only the would-be vaccine recipient has any interst in whether they are vaccinated.
And thinking all the idiots are on the other side.
Hope springs eternal!
I am not anti vaccine as long as it is a choice. I am getting shot #2 next week. I am anti forced mask, anti lockdown, anti loss of freedom we have seen in the last year. It has become clear that half of Americans and a surprising number of bowsiters would walk around with a tampon in each ear if a government official told them too.
AMEN! and LMBO! : )
Q:I've had corona and have tested positive for antibodies I've heard the vaccine can really make you feel bad if you have Atbs is that true? I'm reluctant for that reason.TIA
Second shot had smooth delivery.
I understand that statistics are with my kids. I worry about my oldest who has asthma. I’m the family medical Guinea Pig.
I can give you a little bit of info. My daughter and most all of her dorm had the virus Last September. she had the moderna shot 1 a couple of weeks ago and felt crappy , fever aches pains, for a day then then she was fine. She said at the time, that was pretty consistent with the rest of her friends that had the virus then got the vaccine.
Really? I saw a CNN reporter standing in front of a burning building and claiming it was a peaceful protest. I heard about the Capitol police officer that was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher by Trump supporters. But when they discovered he died of an aneurysm they conveniently neglected to change their story. I guess Kool-Aid does come in a variety of flavors afterall!
both may have gotten sick, one might have died, but id bet anything the death wasnt from the vaccine.
None of which have anything to do with the CDC or Covid vaccine deaths. That’s called a red herring.
By the way 70lbs, how’s the Obamacare treating through this pandemic? Obamacare that I’m paying for you to be on…you socialist communist. You’re welcome.
Rut nut- that’s a good trick picturing me as you don’t even know what I look like. I prefer pads anyways.
Cheers. One popcorn with double butter please.
Correct, but it gives the impression that the China Joe administration will lie about anything if it fits the agenda.
You'll have to elaborate on the Obama care thing. My health insurance definitely sucks, but I'd be surprised to find out that you were paying for it.
Our Governor just extended her state of emergency powers for 60 more days, and put most of the populated areas in the state in the extreme risk lock down again as of today. The agency that regulates all business in the state is going to decide weather or not to make businesses enforcing the mask mandates, new air filtration rules for all businesses, and other rules permanent next week.
The American experiment of all the states creating their own rules is on full display. It should start becoming evident who got it right and who got it wrong.
I'm not overly confident my state will be "normal" anytime soon.
The amazing thing is that at the current rate, the "long term" complications of infection vs vaccination are so massively worse (natural infection being enormously worse) it's crazy... Similarly people act like infection is "healthier" than vaccination, which is a massive logical fallacy and factually incorrect.
Heck, even stuff that, I'll risk the assumption, MOST people reading this have or do use often, like Ibuprofen, Tylenol etc have a WORSE (considerably) rate of significant side effects than the vaccines available to us for COVID.
One could make a solid case that Chiropractic cervical adjustment has a strongly worse rate of serious complications like vertebral artery dissections... Actually, it's an easy case given the evidence available on that subject.
Then again, I'm growing a lizard tail, and my eyes glow when I walk past a 5g tower... Sooo...
I just wish
Far less than what my friends have said they experienced with mild cases.
If I grow a lizard tail later, maybe I can make some easy money in the circus.
Reality has slipped by a good percentage of Americans. It’s no surprise that percentage rate holds true with bowsiters too. I’m not talking about people who’ve received the vaccine. I’m talking about those that keep insinuating it’s the only humane approach. You know, for your fellow man.
The death rate, however exploited it is, shows a better chance of surviving Covid if contracted, then any activity we participate in. Yet, we have the shame stories of how awful it is some have to struggle to be in that category. By people who vote to kill a million Americans a year while defenseless in the womb. Can you cry wolf any louder? Have you fell and bumped your head while climbing up on your soap box?
I have zero issues with anyone’s choices on this vaccine. I’m happy for you where ever you stand. But, It’s beyond stupid to suggest the vaccine hasn’t killed people. When common aspirin does. Are people really that stupid? It appears so. Set back and read for the proof on that one.
It’s killed people. It’s going to kill more. But, it is a undeniable fact that we truly don’t know how severe it is because money and politics got involved a long time ago.
Instead, the community do gooders would line us all up and give us a shot. For everyone else’s good. While voting out right or declaring the murder of a baby who can’t fight for itself, as being a choice of the individual women. Against all humanity we know, and all morality we’ve been given by God himself. I’m shaking my head at this. If fundamentals are applied equally across the board to determine right versus wrong, these same people willingly double back against their humanity spill and cut their fellow mans throat in a second. The proof is on these pages.
For those that keep on insisting we must get vaccinated, Feel free to rebut with something besides the same old I’m doing it for my neighbor crap. Because proof dictates that’s not true at all.
But, keep the shameful stories coming. Keep on telling us how awful it is that some don’t choose your choice of reality. Or, the bloated science project being fed to us by people who truly don’t know much at all about this virus. It’s soul telling for sure.
the sun kills people. water kills people. it is equally beyond stupid to believe that a vaccine which has been approved by the FDA is going to kill people outside of what would be considered incidental.
But, stupid isn’t lack of faith in whether it’s safe based on medicinal terms. It’s believing the same groups that have blatantly lied to the American people for years and, are responsible for delivering that medicinal information, might just be fudging the truth.
Another example of blatant stupidity isn’t acknowledging at least that one example, of several reasons, for being wary of anything they offer.
Like great deals on coolers? ;-)
I personally can’t see the FDA, wanting to inject people to kill them.
I’ve taken the approach that there is no denying that “it” is working to get everyone into a safer position. Just think about if we didn’t even have one to use.
I’m also certain, as a society, we are not told everything. Highly doubt it in fact. But I’m also as certain that everyone wants this crap gone or at least under control.
You're playing the same game talking about the vaccine. Except instead of hurting people through their bank account, you're doing it with their life. And yes, you did it. If you wouldn't have posted the scam, I doubt so many on this site would've fallen for it. Do you think that someone might take your anti vac rhetoric seriously, not get the vaccine get sick and possibly die? I do. They did it with their money just days ago.
I respect your decision to not get vaccinated. Your call. But spreading false narratives and lies about it is stupid and irresponsible.
There are obviously people on here that will believe something they WANT to be true. How many hundreds of dollars did people have to scramble to save? Maybe the "good sale" thread was a way that you can see that you might not be in a position to post about coolers, let alone covid.
By the way, the medical professionals in the CDC… there isn’t 100% turnover when a new president is elected. Many have been there for decades through many presidencies. They have done amazing things to protect us. The CDC is made up of scientists who have dedicated themselves to improving health sciences. Condemning all of them for a very small few bad apples is as bad as defund the police philosophy. The exact same illogical thinking as 70lbs, TD, Hackbow, itshot, Rupe, and Woods Walker demonstrate here on a daily basis. They are just on the opposite end of the spectrum as Antifa but every bit as bad.
Comparing me to antifa...? If you knew anything about me you would know that is as far from the truth as me saying that you support (and I assume you don't)the cop that shot an unarmed woman in the halls of our Capitol. Or that you support the street thugs that ambush and kill police because they uphold the rule of law. You do remember the rule of law don't you? The side you support doesn't,...if that doesn't trouble you...nothing does.
I posted CDC data on Covid vaccine and deaths and you immediately used a red herring to discredit the CDC. Then your last response…I think they call that crawfishing.
I believe the shooting inside the capital was justified. I absolutely believe in the rule of law. Everyone that went beyond a barricade at the Capitol or went in should be arrested and put in prison with a 10 year minimum as they WERE BREAKING THE LAW.
Not entirely, but the irony is that he has frequently used the notion of "common sense" to question or deny medical recommendations and then recently demonstrated an egregious lack thereof.
As for spineless...You'll need to do better than that. Im a realist. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, and I'll question everything that affects my life, but you're pretty bold calling me spineless, when you defend and parrot the preaching of the democratic party.
I don’t parrot anything and I’m not a democrat. There is plenty I disagree with in the current administration. I belong to no party. I make up my own mind and have voted for Rs and Ds.
It appears you’re just one of those guys that thinks all Americans fit in one of two boxes…a binary thinker. And you don’t fit in either one yourself lol. Trumper on Obamacare…that’s a special kind of person.
The CDC or NIH or the host of other Nat Institutes did nothing for the Virus. In fact Fauci was expressly told "to end funding for Wuhan Lab studies under Obama". So Fauci at went around that funding order and had a friend in NY funnel the study monies to the Wuhan lab. That man has been head of many National Institutes for NIH where he was a good politician for getting more funding. Starting with Aids in 1984 and since has been a camera hound mainly. If this mans lips are moving he's selling something for funding and COVID was this mans dream for Power come true.
We have not heard the last of this little fellow. The future will shake this tree and we shall see what it reveals. Do the math 4.6 billion humans/ death from true Covid =99.8% survival rate. A very weak virus and pandemic. Panic and power grab for Fauci and GVT 100% effective.
The CDC is and always has been our first line of defense against new and deadly disease worldwide. Without them disease detection, identification, transmission, and treatment around the world would not be even close to proactive. Had we not followed CDC and NIH recommendations then the death toll from this pandemic would have been in the millions in the US.
Ever notice how the conspiracy idiots have nothing to back up there claim and always seek a scapegoat (like Fauci). Please tell me who was the president and boss of the CDC and NIH during this pandemic? When they go after the science and scientists baselessly…you should take a huge step back as it a prime indicator that fascism is involved.
D-Wad- use your brain and just do a little bit of fact checking and you might just live a happier life.
Unfreaking believable and terrifyingly scary…
70lbs/ when did I call you a liar?
First, apologies to Matt (Grey Ghost) for my somehow missing this thread and not chiming in as he indicated he thought I might in his 2/21 post. Working closely with ICU doctors since the onset of this pandemic has kept me hopping to put in mildly and I've had long stretches where I've pretty much been on call 24/7; that's ok as we've been able to mitigate some of the devastating consequences of COVID infections and I'll take some loss of sleep and the loss of anything resembling a social life any day of the week and twice on Sundays in trade.
Here's something I actually posted on a social media site at the behest of some friends and to address some of the mind-blowing lunacy I saw there. I hope this helps and will respond to any questions as quickly as I can; please feel free to send them.
COVID-19 was highly politicized from the onset for one glaringly obvious reason; it had the ability to do what none of the 23 dwarves (aka Democrat contenders for the nomination for POTUS) could do; defeat Donald Trump. Misinformation became the order of the day as statements he made were often published out of context while statements and actions he took that were positive were under-reported if not completely ignored.
Cases were tracked to miscast a pandemic as an impending apocalypse and the number of cases was a gross exaggeration of reality owing to the misuse of a highly sensitive confirmatory assay (PCR) as a screening test. Frightening statistics on severe outcomes (even with survival) and deaths were published as raw numbers absent any meaningful context, such as underlying chronic comorbidities that also predispose those same people to adverse outcomes, up to and including death from a myriad of common diseases that Americans have been numbed to, owing to their frequency.
The campaign of misinformation didn't stop there; we've seen a number of claims about vaccines that in an ordinary time would have quickly been consigned to the scrap heap. We have seen EUA (Emergency Use Authorization) portrayed as "pray it works or at least doesn't kill you", tracking chips that will monitor your every bowel movement (and all others) and questions about efficacy that are naive at best given the relatively short span of time we've had to assess their impact.
We've been told that even fully vaccinated individuals should still wear a mask, possibly long-term, though this flies in the face of principles of immunology.
So what do we know? Well, we know that immunity is a function of immunocompetence; each individual will determine how effective their immune response will be based on that foundation. This will be the same whether exposure is via vaccination or through natural exposure (infection). We know that in immunocompetent individuals there is a high likelihood of not only effective immunity but long-lasting immunity barring major antigenic variation in SARS-CoV-2 (mutation(s)). We know that as more strains are isolated they will be sequenced and we will have the ability to develop multivalent vaccines that may preclude the need for annual vaccinations.
Here's what I believe; I see no reason for fully vaccinated, immunocompetent individuals to wear a mask-period. How do you assess this immunocompetency? Very easily by simple antibody titer testing; those with high antibody titers aren't getting infected with the strain for which the vaccine was developed and barring major mutation(s) there not getting infected from any of the variants either. For those advancing the idea that such individuals may still be infectious I would remind them that infectivity is directly proportional to viral load; the individuals I've described will never develop anywhere near a high enough viral load to be infectious.
Here's what I know about the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine; across a broad spectrum of patient groups it performed exceptionally well and safely. On a personal note, my wife developed symptoms and tested positive for COVID on March 25th, 10 days after my second dose of the vaccine. It was likely she was shedding sufficient levels of virus to be infectious 3-5 days prior and I have been home, taking care of her without a mask on either of us every day since she first showed signs of symptoms.
She was concerned but I told her that the reality was that I was most likely immune and as she was shedding ahead of symptoms if I didn't show any symptoms within 3-5 days (by this past Saturday) it was highly unlikely I ever would. As the principles in development for the Moderna vaccine are the same as the Pfizer vaccine I have a similar level of confidence in that vaccine too.
Stay strong my friends, for this too shall pass.
Unless it was meant for someone else.