Payment prior to contract?
General Topic
Working with an unguided/do it yourself ranch owner that seems to run a legitimate business. He has asked for half payment on a hunt 5 years in advance. Once payment is received they will send the contract to be signed. Am I being over cautious or is this a normal way of doing business?
Usually a deposit gets you the contract, which you sign and send more money
Thanks Bob, just seems that the risk is on the person sending the money. There isn't anything binding the person to send the contract, they could just keep the money?
Nope, sign the contract saying the amount of the deposit for the hunt. Like you said otherwise you could be lefy holding the bag! Shawn
Agree with above. Get contract, sign with amount of deposit,and make sure price of hunt is agreed on in contract. Alot can change in 5 years.
If this guy is booked that far out, probably says something good about him. Just me, but I am not sending money that far in advance, heck, he might be dead or hunting outlawed by then.
GL!
He may not own the land in 5 years!
Three years is my furthest out
Internet sales are heavily in favor of the seller. Not the buyer. Sellers insinuate they are honest. Placing all the risk on the buyers.
The same is standard for many goods and services offered outside the internet. While I think it’s insane to suggest any payment 5 years in advance, I can see where a security deposit is needed in certain instances. This being one of them. But, 5 years is a joke. If he’s that popular, he’ll have no problems a year out if someone canceled. Much less 5 years out.
Yeah screw 5 years way too long out.
" asked for half payment:......."Once payment is received they will send the contract to be signed."
but! but! but! what if after getting the contract you decide somethings in the contract is not to your liking and you decline to do the hunt are you getting your half payment back when he gets the returned unsigned contract back??? this process is just backwards.
the devil is in the details.
Must be a very unique place
Way to far out
Why are you booking a DIY on a ranch 5 years out??? In that time you should be hitting lots of public for free
More info on this ranch-
Do you know them ?
Had anyone you know personally hunted there?
How did you hear about it?
Does it have a good reputation?
How much money are you talking? Easier to risk less $.
Is it in a draw area or OTC? State?
Personally I have never sent money without a contract- all the terms are listed and deposit amount. They send me the contract that states its effective once they receive the deposit. I sign the contract and send the money. The rest of the payment time and method is listed on the contract.
Would it be possible to ask him (or a previous reference) for a copy of his contract? That way, you can read all of the details, and see how critical factors (such as the deposit, possibility of loss of land, etc) are addressed? If you explain your concerns, hopefully, he would understand, and send you a copy that is "voided". I wouldn't think that he would have much of a problem with such a request, as long as he hasn't signed it there'd be no risk to him. Personally, I have never sent money without sending a signed contract along with it.....and I have done more than my fair share of hunts.
No problem with paying five years out so long as he accepts a check post dated four years out
After reading a thread on MM where an outfitter cancelled all his NM hunts a few years ago because of that big rain storm and gave no refunds because he had already spent the money, I wouldn't pay for any hunt in advance and certainly not without reading the contract first.
I don't even buy green bananas anymore......
In 5 years who knows what else China will throw at us..... (semi-smilyface)
Absolutely not. Demand an unsigned contract for review. Then find an escrow company to hold the deposit until the hunt. That way if something happens and they can’t provide the hunt you get your money back.
I’m with the majority opinion here, except if I’m using Bowhunting Safari Consultants. They put your money in escrow and hold it until the hunt gets closer. Five years is just two long for my comfort, even two years makes me nervous. Hunt contracts are not worth crap for the buyer. Are you really going to sue someone over less than 10k? Even if you won the suit you’ll likely never see the money. Just ask the 300 guys who paid Tuttulik outfitters. I was one of them.
Alot can happen in 5 years.....I'd pass unless some type of agreement can be reached where you can protect your money in case some unforeseen thing happens. I hope that doesn't become a norm amongst outfitters.
I wouldn’t trust someone that needs 50% 5 yrs out. Sounds like he’s running a Ponzi scheme. I could see $200 to hold your spot.
The way I do business, first contract and then payment after the contract is read
Is this a Marco Polo sheep hunt inTajikistan? If not, run!
Interesting. I also would not book a hunt five years out.
But, wait there's more! For a small S/H fee, we'll send you two, that's right two more years for that price! :-)
Three years is my furthest out
I agree, A Lot can happen in a guys life over a 5 year period Or the Outfitters life.
I could see 25% to hold your spot and get your contract.
Whatever you decide
Good luck, Robb
Half down for a hunt 5 years away is a LOT. I see 2 reasons for this:
1. The guy is that good and has been burned. If he is booked 5 yeas out I suspect he is fantastic and I would TRY and do the same if I was him.
2. Scam - so yes be careful.
I have only booked a few outfitters/transporters. Before I actually talk to them I already know if I am booking with him - because I do so much homework. There is a VERY high demand for good outfitters so I will not do anything to piss them off and follow all their rules happily.
When it is time to head into the filed I imagine he has a few clients around that time and has to decide who to put where. I want that guy to LOVE me when it is decision time.
While I can’t think of a situation where I would say yes to this, we really don’t know enough to make a rational decision.
What animal will you hunt?
How big is the property?
Have you seen the property in person or animals killed on it, or are you relying on pics and testimonials?
How much money are we talking about?
Not a chance. 10% maybe then half at 12 months. Find another outfit.
Half at 5 years seems alit to me
A contract is only good as a $350 per hr attorney in this situation, 5 yrs out a lot can happen in life.
The downpayment is not the main issue. It must be made prior to any contract.
Have any of you ordered a Randall knife, lately? Your non-refundable deposit holds your production spot for an estimated delivery in
5 to 6 years!. Of course, they've been in business since the late '30s, so there's that.
I would never never book a hunt 5 years out, much less send a deposit without a signed contract, first.
Matt
"Just me, but I am not sending money that far in advance; heck, he might be dead or hunting outlawed by then." Agree 100%.
Another thought: If somebody's booked that far out for anything other than very rare &/or exotic specie(s), his prices are probably too low. If I were the outfitter, I'd raise my prices to where I was booked only a year or two out.
No! Especially not 5 years out. A contract includes deposit/refund policies. You should get that in the mail or via email and send it WITH the deposit. Remember to make a copy. If a guy told me send money and then I’ll send my contract I’d run. If he says no tell him you’d at least like the terms of the deposit in writing first. There should be no reason he wouldn’t want to do that as it protects him as well.
