Summit Treestands
HELP! Tuning newbie
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
Buckiller 19-Jul-21
Cheesehead Mike 19-Jul-21
Cheesehead Mike 19-Jul-21
JohnMC 19-Jul-21
Buckiller 19-Jul-21
Cheesehead Mike 20-Jul-21
midwest 20-Jul-21
goyt 20-Jul-21
Buckiller 20-Jul-21
Grey Ghost 20-Jul-21
wraith8 20-Jul-21
APauls 20-Jul-21
olebuck 20-Jul-21
JohnMC 20-Jul-21
Buckiller 20-Jul-21
Cheesehead Mike 20-Jul-21
Cheesehead Mike 20-Jul-21
Buckiller 20-Jul-21
APauls 20-Jul-21
Grey Ghost 20-Jul-21
Bill in MI 20-Jul-21
carcus 21-Jul-21
APauls 21-Jul-21
From: Buckiller
19-Jul-21
Picked up a Mathews v3 27, 70lbs, 27.5" draw, 28.5" maxima red 350.

Shooting really well until I screwed on a broadhead. Vpa 125 grain,1.25" cut. Broadheads hitting about 3 inches right at 30 yards and increases with distance. Watched tons of YouTube videos and that almost confused me more. Tried micro tuning my rest to the left which does put broadheads on but moves my field tips to the left. Should have added when I bought the bow my bow shop guy shimmed the cam and helped paper tune. Over spined? Need more foc? Any thoughts or input would be appreciated. Eric

19-Jul-21
I don't think you're overspined. I don't have any experience with VPA broadheads so I'm not sure if they're contributing to the problem.

I shoot a Mathews Halon and I believe it has the same cam system as your V3. I've always been able to get fixed blade broadheads and field points to impact the same out to at least 60 yards with previous Mathews bows but the Halon just about drove me crazy. No amount of rest or nock point tuning helped. I chased my groups all over the place to no avail.

The dealer/shop wasn't much help either, paper tuning with a field point was about as far as they went. They suggested I shoot mechanical broadheads. I searched all over the internet too and found some great YouTube videos on tuning the tophats which are what Mathews calls the bushings used to adjust the offset on the cams. I ended up buying a complete set of tophats so I could tune the offset on my cams and it cured my problems.

I now practice out to 110 yards with G5 Striker fixed blade broadheads and field points impacting the same. Slick Trick standards are good too but don't fly quite as consistent as the Strikers. I went from being extremely frustrated with the bow to loving it.

I would figure out your tophat tuning issue, tune your bow so broadheads and field points impact together and forget about paper tuning.

I should also mention that my bow paper tuned fine but would not group broadheads and field points together until I swapped out the tophats.

19-Jul-21

Cheesehead Mike's Link
Here's a video at my link. Search "Mathews tophats" on YouTube and you'll find more videos.

From: JohnMC
19-Jul-21
After moving your rest. Did the gap between field tip and btoadhead lesson? Did go from 3” to less than 3”? If so try going a little more. As long as you marked where you started you can always move it back if does not work.

From: Buckiller
19-Jul-21
John, no my broadhead moved the 2-3" and hit perfect but my field tip was now shooting about 6" left so actually got worse.

Mike, I appreciate that, the pro shop did change the top hats but I'm guessing they aren't right and that's my problem. Even if I buy the kit I don't have a press of my own. Did you adjust top hats until you were shooting good on paper and in turn your broadheads shot good or was there more tweaking after the paper to get the broadheads to fly good?

20-Jul-21
I gave up on paper tuning and just tuned my tophats until the broadheads and field points came together. It was actually very easy once I got the tophat kit. I might add that if you get your broadheads and field points to impact together out to your maximum effective range that's proof positive that your bow is well tuned and shooting through paper will not add anything to the situation.

If your broadheads are hitting right of your field points logic says that your arrow is leaving your bow flying slightly to the right and the broadhead continues to steer it in that direction whereas the field point has no "steerage" so it doesn't steer the arrow to the right. If your arrow is pointed slightly right when it leaves your bow I believe it would leave a left tear. I would make sure your rest is at the 13/16" center shot and change your tophats as if it's leaving a left tear, which according to the YouTube video you would move your top cam left. My broadheads also hit to the right and I believe I moved both of my cams left but it's been a few years and I don't remember for sure. I do know that I chased my tail around for over a year and the tophats were the answer. I also started a thread on tuning a Mathews Halon and got a lot of well meaning advice but most of those people trying to help weren't familiar with the tophat system.

If you don't have a press, I would bring some broadheads with you to the pro shop, play the YouTube video for them (I actually sent YouTube videos to my pro shop guy and taught him some things). Tell them you want to swap your tophats and experiment and shoot your field points and broadheads there at the shop until your broadheads and field points impact together. They might also learn a little something. You might also consider buying a press. I bought one for about $150 and it was a great investment saving a lot of time and trips to the pro shop.

From: midwest
20-Jul-21
Get a press, you'll never regret it.

From: goyt
20-Jul-21
Mike, Thank you. Great information.

From: Buckiller
20-Jul-21
Yes mike thank you very much! I'll be calling my shop today and if they can't help me I'll be looking for one that can. Much appreciated

From: Grey Ghost
20-Jul-21
In my experience, tuning problems like these are often caused by small errors in the shooter's form. I recently helped a young shooter tune his bow. No matter what changes we made to the bow, his BHs would not group with his field tips. Finally, I realized he was gripping his bow like he was choking a chicken. I showed him a proper grip, and his tuning problems went away.

Matt

From: wraith8
20-Jul-21
Buckkiller, I had a similar problem a few years ago after putting a drop away rest on my bow. Try wearing a cloth glove on your bow-hand, something similar to a jersey glove. My broadheads were hitting about 6 inches to the side of my field points after switching to a new rest. I could move the rest and get the broadheads s to hit where I was aiming, but the field points moved the same amount and the two wouldn't get any closer to each other. I finally realized it had to do with me, not the bow. I reset the rest to where I started and I put a glove on my bow hand. I was able to then adjust the rest and get the broadheads s and field points to move the same point of impact. After that I adjusted my sights for yardage. I don't know what I was doing barehanded that effected the broadhead flight, but putting on a glove removed/reduced something about my grip that was causing the broadheads s to fly different than the field points. Don't know if this will help, but it's something else to try

From: APauls
20-Jul-21
If you moved it left and it got worse, move it right. If you've got a whisker biscuit they often tune left/right opposite to "conventional" wisdom. Mine have been opposite every time.

What you are explaining would tell you to move the rest left, but in my experience if you have a WB, that would be a "move right" situation.

From: olebuck
20-Jul-21
you are torqueing the bow with your grip more than likely.

Draw your bow, anchor and look up at your top cam - if the string is coming off at an angle - then you are causing grip torque. i took the rubber grip off my V3 and it fits me much better.

if your 3 inches off with broadheads your not far from tuned..... shoot me a PM and i'll give you my phone # and i'll talk you though how to fix it at home without a press - but check your grip first.

worst case scenario is you have to make a trip to the shop and swap the top hats...

From: JohnMC
20-Jul-21
I am with Apaul do that. Mark where you start and worse case you can move it back to where you started.

From: Buckiller
20-Jul-21
I have marked the rest and did try To move the rest to right and that only made it worse. I always seemed to have good grip as to not torque but I can definitely try the glove. Talked to my guy at the pro shop and he said he will help me with the top hats so that is where I will start. I appreciate all the input so far

20-Jul-21
The advice on gripping and torque is also good advice. My Halon is more sensitive to hand torque than any other bow I shot in my previous 40+ years of shooting bows. I thought I had a good grip but I ended up changing the way I grip the bow to eliminate torque. If you're not aware of the proper way to let the bow rest in your hand torque free, you should also research that and possibly change the way you grip the bow.

All that being said, if your grip is good and you're not torquing the bow, and moving your rest a small amount does not bring the groups together, I would look into the tophats. Like I said, over a year of frustration and trying everything, hundreds of holes through paper, bare shaft tuning, etc and changing the tophats solved the problem. I wish somebody would have saved me the time and frustration.

20-Jul-21
I assume you also tried moving the rest to the left and that didn't work either? This might be stating the obvious but if your broadheads are hitting to the right, conventional wisdom says to move the rest left in order to move the broadheads toward the field points. Either way, no matter which way I moved the rest nothing worked for me and I tried everything.

From: Buckiller
20-Jul-21
Yes initially I moved it left as that would make the most sense but just for the heck of it I did move it right also

From: APauls
20-Jul-21
I remember talking to my buddy who is a great bow tuner. "First rule of bow tuning - There are no rules!" He said lol.

From: Grey Ghost
20-Jul-21
I've never understood why the shoot thru cable design never caught on. It would eliminate so many tuning problems that are a result of the lateral forces caused by offset cables.

That said, it's nice to see Matthews finally acknowledge the inherent problem and produced a top hat kit to address it. I've always used PTFE washers to serve the same purpose.

Matt

From: Bill in MI
20-Jul-21
Start with the simplest thing like a shooting with a soft cotton glove (no rubber grip bumps) and eliminate torque and hand placement variables 1st. You don't want to be changing the mechanics of your bow when you might have a correctable GIGO factor.

From: carcus
21-Jul-21
I had to swap the tophats on my vxr31.5 to get it to tune

From: APauls
21-Jul-21
Carcus shooting a Matthews not a bowtech is the most confusing thing I've seen in 2021.

  • Sitka Gear