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2024 can't get here soon enough.

Never thought this could happen in a FREE Country!

That seemed to go right out the window, when the vaccines became available. They are using them as a weapon, for control...plain and simple!

Showing my antibody count should have as much (or more) value, as a "vaccine certificate".

So, I guess it's just assuming the worst.

I really wonder if anyone on the decision making team considered that.

No fear of God and no fear of government go hand in hand.

It is when a people forget God, that tyrants forge their chains. - Patrick Henry

Sometimes I feel we aren’t getting the true numbers of who is contracting Covid… vaccinated vs non-vaccinated. It’s almost comparable to people who were duped by scent-loc and would go to the edge of earth to defend their over priced product.

Ike… can you give me factual info on vaccinated people that get Covid being “less sick” or “recover quicker”?

By the way, I contracted it back in late July. It took me about 11 days to get well. Not 100% but well enough to get back to routine and doing day to day. Today, I feel 100%.

I've been vaccinated. I think it is the best choice for me and my family, but I am 100% against being forced to do so.

Exactly. Unfortunately we have enough sheep that will go along with it.

I said I don't have much sympathy for people wringing their hands over it. Honestly, I think everyone should get the vaccine by choice. As far as people upset about being forced to, no, I don't really care.

"What other freedoms are you ok giving up because the government deems it necessary..."

Speed limits. Childhood vaccinations for schools. Not allowing people to own nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons. Not allowing drinking and driving. Etc. There's a host of things I'm ok with the government saying you have to do or cannot do that are related to public safety and the well-being of the country.

During WWII, we had a National speed limit of 25mph. It was called "Freedom Speed," or something like that. During crises that affect us all, I believe that we need to pull together as a country and take one for the team, even if that means getting a shot that will protect you from a disease that you will most likely not die from. I got my shots willingly and the booster, not because I was worried about the disease, but because I practice what I preach.

"Ike… can you give me factual info on vaccinated people that get Covid being “less sick” or “recover quicker”?"

I can give you studies that show that they foster less virus in their nasal passages than unvaccinated people and I can give you studies that show that they're less likely to be hospitalized or die. That's the data that are out.

If the country were to vote that abortion were to be banned so long as a National vaccine mandate went into affect and you didn't support that law, then your argument sort of falls flat. No one gets to have their cake and eat it too.

And FTR, I never said I was in favor of government vaccine mandates nor masking mandates. I just said that I don't have a lot of sympathy for people that are upset about it and the reason for that is that I'm not one of those people that doesn't want a vaccine and I think they're a reasonable thing to get. So I feel that if you don't want a vaccine, it's generally because of erroneous reasons, so I'm unsympathetic to your plight and the Government has nothing to do with my feelings.

FWIW, I feel the country should be opened back up and people should choose whether or not they wear a mask or not, get a vaccine or not, and that it should be left up to individual companies to decide whether or not they allow people to patronize their facilities without a vaccine and/or mask.

It's going to end up that ways eventually anyways, we're just dragging it out at this point.

Besides, I thought they believed in science? Why are they striving for 100% vaccination? Where is the control group? If everyone is vaccinated, how will you discern any problems with the vaccine?

There’s gonna be a lot of people unemployed pretty soon as companies over the 100 employee threshold begin laying off people to get under 100. Xiden’s employment destruction carries on!

Those were laws passed through legislation not something pulled out of a hat by the POTUS or a governor. FYI...What Biden did today is 1000 times more tyrannical than anything Trump ever attempted.

Why doesn’t the Government just look at our medical files to see who’s vaccinated? Oh yeah…forgot about that little right. Bite me, Biden

Years ago when I went back to the public sector working at a university they tried to tell me I needed additional vaccines-for diseases I had as a child or received vaccines for many decades ago. My physician said no, I also said no and filed as a conscientious objector.

"It's my body my rights", what happened to that position in the land of the free???

Not an anti-vaxer but its damn well a decision between you and you physician. If your an anti-vax due to some stupid misinformation on the internet-agin better talk to your doctor, they can likely provide reassurance.

Fauci is a piece of work, the new docs out on him seem to indicate he knew all about gain of function in Wuhan, public grant funding and he has a lot to answer for.

Here is the only issue with Gus debate. It’s that Covid is not the degree of epidemic politics pushed so hard to make it. And, people understand their odds are very high they’ll be just fine without the vaccine. It’s why so many just ain’t gonna get it. Mandate or not. It’ll cause a civil uprising.

It is a ridiculous requirement and it will be impossible for a guy to keep up with testing especially when they will be required to pay for it. It is like banning ammo but making guns legal.

Unfortunately, it works.

That is precisely why people are "wringing their hands over it". The choice is no longer theirs.

This directive is nothing more than coercion, plain and simple. And, if the courts uphold this, shame on them and their failure...

Right wing hypocrisy aside I'm against the federal government mandating non fed employees to get vaxed. I can see it failing in the courts. I am 100% okay with private businesses mandating their own vax standards however.

Question... if you guys get covid, do you plan to do daily updates until you are cured on here? Statistically most on here are much more likely to get covid/not do well than the average population. Ie... many on here are older, not vaxed, dont' socially distance, no mask, might eat horse grade medicine, bleach clenses, etc. The only saving grace for many here is you might live out in the boonies a bit and ergo are naturally socially distant.

Best of luck with you anti parasitic drugs for viral infections.

Since most 5th graders have a better grasp on the difference between a virus, a bacteria, and a parasite. And how they operate in the human body.

Obviously a child whomever they belong to

Damn kids.

He's a crazy old man and getting crazier and meaner as he tries to cover up Afghanistan FUBAR, the border.... everything he's touched. The plan is pretty clear.... they need to pit American against American, stir up and divide as much as possible so they don't turn their frustration toward him and his Globalist Corporate masters.

They've been lying to everyone from the start. Now you have to have "boosters"..... and they STILL need you to stay home, wear two or three masks.... Lie once.... I'm done. These people stack em on top of each other. Lost any and all credibility. Hope Fausi loses his license over his little lab perjury BS that the media has shut up about. They lie to the public about pretty much everything and justify it so as to make the public do what they want. But hey.... always remember.... just give em two weeks to flatten the curve.... To hell with these people.

Said it before..... I take this and treat this just like all those making up these "rules"do. You know, the ones going to restaurants, hair dressers, Mexican resorts, weddings and music festivals..... all the while telling you "little people" to mask up with two or three of em and stay home.....

Estimates I've read are a bit over half the fed workforce has taken the poke. Cool. When he gets rid of near half the fed workforce it might be the first good decision he's made in his entire life. Still wouldn't be his first honest one......

@glunt... you are unequivocally wrong. https://www.cnet.com/news/ivermectin-and-covid-19-whats-the-deal-with-this-controversial-unproven-drug/ https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02081-w

If it works so good, why on gods green earth aren't they(FDA, CDC etc) pumping it into everyone? That vax works, ivermectin at best does not.

Thank goodness we live under the Constitution and there are checks and balances. I’m guessing that the SCOTUS will get a chance to weigh in on this. If they say it’s within the executive branches power then I’m good with it. If they say it’s not then I’m good with that also. I tend to think the court system will rule against Biden on this cause I believe it is an overreach of power. But I’m not a constitutional lawyer either.

I’m for individual rights but I also understand that there some rules are for the collective good as Idlywildarcher said. I’m willing to do whatever we need to do to protect my fellow Americans and I believe in the science of vaccines. Therefore, I’m not wringing my hands either for a revolution over it. I’m still going to stick with the Constitution and let it play out.

Also, how many of you gladly vaccinated your children to protect them from illness? How many of you thought mandatory vaccines for school children was a sensible policy before vaccines were politicized?

It’s not about personal freedom. We have the freedom to make decisions as an electorate, not to harm others by our personal decisions. Driving drunk is a personal decision, but it endangers others. Going unvaccinated is no different. Viruses multiply and mutate within the unvaccinated population. The unvaccinated are breeding the next COVID variants that will kill vaccinated people.

Do your duty, get over the politics, and get vaccinated.

They have managed and responded to the global pandemic by actually taking actions to respond to it.... Instead of pretending it wasn't real, that is fake, that it was going to go away by easter, that it's not even that deadly, by not not doing anything.

I try to think back to the good things trump did, really can't think of many. The 1 or 2 decent things he did are largely overshadowed by his atrocities, attempted coup d'etat, blatant bold face outright lies from big to small, important to unimportant. I've seen snakes lie less.

@shrewski... "Why don’t antibodies count any more?"

Holy hell, read a news report. Because the virus has mutated and the vax is more effective than most naturally had antibodies. Antibodies fade over time, especially the ones you got/how you got them. I have friends who got it, they got it again 6 months later, and it was worse the 2nd time around.

Rushed and basically untested (certainly not long term tested) vaccines are not better than God given and hard earned antibodies.

And just exactly how are the determining the “delta” or “lambda” variant as the are NO TESTS for them? Will the end with the “triple omega” variant?

Where did all the flu go?

Protect the elderly and compromised, build the herd immunity (which the vaccines obviously are NOT doing) and get on with life.

If you want to stop Covid, why do you keep an endless flow of it come illegally into the country, incubate it in the border towns, them ship it all over the US at the cost of the taxpayer?

It is a huge pile of BS, the government is not concerned about our health and safety.

My claim is probably not "unequivocally" wrong. There is a clinical trial involving some Colorado facilities at the moment with Metformin, Fluvoxxomine and Ivermectin

From the NIH website:

"Some clinical studies showed no benefits or worsening of disease after ivermectin use, whereas others reported shorter time to resolution of disease manifestations that were attributed to COVID-19, greater reduction in inflammatory marker levels, shorter time to viral clearance, or lower mortality rates in patients who received ivermectin than in patients who received comparator drugs or placebo."

"If it works so good, why on gods green earth aren't they(FDA, CDC etc) pumping it into everyone?" Set your assumptions aside and re-read your question. Its a good one.

"This is not about freedom or personal choice. It's about protecting yourself and those around you, the people you work with, the people you care about, the people you love. My job as president is to protect all Americans" Joe Biden

Both quotes from the same day, just two different issues. We are a very, very long way from being united.

And we are told we are out of touch..... guess that is why they are saying the vax is now seen as effective for just a few months and now you need to have another..... and another.... and another.... sound familiar? Should.... their goalposts have been on wheels from day one.

Studies coming from Israel are showing exactly the opposite, natural immunity was many times (13 times?) more effective against the "delta variant". Check out link.

or this one.... https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/08/26/large-israeli-study-natural-immunity-provides-13-times-more-protection-against-delta-than-pfizers-vaccine-does-n411863

or this one... https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/312538

you get the picture. maybe

Curious what they pay you guys to troll lil' ol' Bowsite though..... might need a side hustle someday. I'd ask for double what you get though..... I'd actually do a bit of research into what I was doing....

“ In general, the World Tribune publishes many true stories; however, occasionally, they publish outright fake news.

Overall, we rate World Tribune a Questionable source based on a far-right bias (propaganda), and poor sourcing, and misleading science, as well as a lack of ownership transparency. ”

A non-peer reviewed study should give you pause. But the study did say that those that had COVID and one vaccine had the best immunity against the Delta variant. That’s basically cherry picking at its finest.

TDs third source references the same non-peer reviewed study (linked) as the second. It may or may not be a valid study yet; therefore, it is preliminary and not reliable.

But we come to expect that from a guy caught in the same alt-right ranting loops for over a decade.

I also enjoy a stick of chewing gum daily and ride on two axles that I know little of the origins of.Im pretty well read on the vaccine and serve in a government regulatory capacity and was appointed by two different republican governors who entrusted me in that capacity,I receive no compensation for my service.Sometimes my country needs me,and I never had to stare at a draft card so the price to help seems pretty small compared to my forefathers.

We don’t know what we don’t know of course but one thing is for certain.

The poison of politics and opinion that has tainted this process on both side of the aisle DOES NOT actually make it inside the syringe.

Let’s do for our nation’s brothers and sisters who are at greatest risk from this pathogen and roll up our sleeve to REDUCE the ravages of this virus.

I think I’ll have a Juicy Fruit

Covid is just how it spreads.

I think Fred was way smarter than these azzholes we have in DC today

The “virus” is .03% fatal.

The injection doesn’t keep you from getting it, giving it, being hospitalized or dying from it.

Acute symptoms and death far greater than all vaccines over the last 30 years.

Unknown long term effects from the RNA and other ingredients.

“Protection” wears off in 3-6 months requiring “boosters”. Destroys natural defenses and will make people dependent on big pharma to stay alive.

The rabid push to destroy our rights using FEAR of Covid as a platform.

That’s why.

Where are all those vagina hat wearin people at now???

Until it's misconstrued to mean something it doesn't while using a bureaucracy to enforce something that's made up. This directive can also have a direct effect on interstate commerce, and last I checked, only Congress possess the powers under the Commerce Clause...

Now suppose, that you just step back a little bit. Look at the state of the world, and say it actually was real, and the entire medical system was on the brink of collapse, and you were the one tasked with making it go away. But the unfortunate thing about infectious things is they spread rapidly, so you're kind of screwed as far as stopping the spread unless there's a way to affect everyone. What would YOU do? How would YOU do it? Have you ever had to make a decision that you knew was unpopular or partly unpopular but you had to do it for the greater good? Tough spot to be in for sure. Not one I am jealous of.

I know those of us that are vaccinated are dropping like flies. Suppose for one minute, that you were responsible for an entire country of people. Not just yourself, and the fact that you are quite confident you'll be fine. That is your individual decision.

But WHAT IF, you were responsible for the entire nation? What would you do? How would you help all the people that have increased risk factors? How would you help the elderly, the obese, and frankly, just the unlucky? How would YOU help all the people that are in risks way every day? How do you help the other people that need treatment they can't access because all the lines are clogged with COVID issues? What would you do? Where would you go to for data? Where would you go to for advice? Are 98% of doctors bad people that have somehow been fleeced by the system? They are people you know. People with families and a lust for life, just like you and me.

Never in the history of medicine has their been 100% agreement on anything. Yet what - 90-some % of doctors are vaccinated. Depends on where you are as to what % you'll find. Why would that be I wonder? If you had to take a gamble, and you look at the people that all have similar schooling and are dealing with this stuff, will you side with the 92-98% of experts, or would you side with the 2-8%. Because they must know something the rest don't? If you have a medical situation - say a shoulder issue, and had the time and the funds to get 100 opinions, you would NOT get the same opinion 100 times over. I would be impressed if you had 70-80% agreement. Yet on COVID, over 90% of the experts agree. Just some food for thought.

I'm not one to push my views on others, and by my statements I'm sure you'll know what my individual choice was, but I think before we get so caught up in our individual situations, try and take a step back, look at the whole thing, and see what you would do, should you have to be the one to take command. One thing is for sure; it's a really really tough spot to be in.

Also, I would/will never look down or crossly at someone with the 100% opposite opinion of myself. Just is what it is. We are most likely getting our information from different sources. My wife just happens to be a PhD in immunology so I thankfully have someone I can trust who is smarter than myself inside my own home. One thing is for certain, I wish you all the best.

It seems also to me, that outdoorsmen/woman seem to be less affected by COVID. I wonder if there is something about being outside all the time that makes us healthier individuals? Is the exercise? The air? The healthier eating? No data there, just seems to be what I see.

But only when all the approvals are in place and after all protocols have been met.

"The SC makes a lot of bad rulings"

True statement.

Totally agree with the harm politicizing Covid has done, just probably don't agree on how to spread the blame out for that.

Why is this different? It is different because our "leaders" have done nothing but divide and conquer on any and everything. They have sewed the seeds of discontent. Very few people, regardless of political persuasion, trust the government. We have watched the goal posts be moved continually and have no idea what to believe on Covid. I wasn't around when smallpox was an issue but I would guess that it was not politicized (at least to this extent) and that it was general consensus that the government is looking out for our well being. It would be hard to convince many that the government is looking out for our well being even if they truly are. Most simply see the ruling class as looking out for themselves while amassing as much power as possible, rights be damned.

“ In the end it does not matter who I am, what credentials I bring to the table, or how well I can fluff my resume to project an aura of expertise. If what I write has value, my bio should be irrelevant and who I am will be revealed in the spaces between the lines.”

I completely agree. That’s why I support the right of every American that is worried about this to take a shot, wear a mask and STF at home. The rest of us will keep doing what we can.

X2

https://www.bodychek.co.uk/uncategorized/4898/phd-cellular-molecular-biologist-explains-why-the-un-jabbed-are-not-selfish/?fbclid=IwAR3iCHMebwInEVwTUHYgGSD2XfrMvUu6O2seWcY4KNHEPG6gjCkKwNzH-WQ

In my best hunting related analogy, if beating COVID is like climbing up a 20ft oak tree to a stand, most hunters have the strength if they really needed to grab the branches and one way or another get themselves up. Heck, as a young, somewhat fit individual in the absence of forgetting my tree steps I climbed up a 20 foot bald poplar to reach my stand. Point being, if you're young, relatively healthy, don't have a bunch of other risk factors (for a metaphor sake let's say missing an arm) you'll get to your stand no problem.

Now suppose you've got more risk factors, age, diabietes, other health issues, that's kind of like starting this challenge missing an arm, or depending how bad it is, maybe an arm and a leg. Or two arms. Or even two arms and a leg it you're really sickly.

Getting the vaccine is kind of like being gifted a 20 foot extension ladder. Gets you all the way there, there's still that one difficult step at the top that the odd bonehead could screw up, but otherwise it's pretty foolproof. But, for the old and frail, (missing an arm or two, maybe even legs as well) the ladder will help, but they still may not make it. Because the ladder is just a ladder. The situation must still work with the body you've got at the time. It won't turn you superhuman. It's a boost for sure, but you're still the same person with all the same risk factors that you had before you started going up the ladder, ie trying to beat COVID. It will help, but there's no guarantees.

In the case of someone really weak and sick (say missing two arms and a leg) they're probably just better off not trying to climb the ladder. They'd be best waiting on the ground and just taking their chances they never get covid. Because climbing the ladder may kill them (getting the shot), and they basically have no chance of beating COVID anyways. At the end of the day, it is what it is.

I'm just so tired of people saying: "Why are people still getting COVID even if they have the shot?" Remember, almost all the people that had risk factors? Ya, they got the shot, but it isn't a 100% guarantee for them. They're still climbing the ladder with no arms, and could easily fall off.

The metaphor won't be perfect, and I just made it up. But that's my understanding of it anyways ;)

Has Biden got a third shot yet? Some real reporter needs to ask.

Above is the stats for vaccinated people in the US. When you hear the higher percentages that are vaccinated, it typically excluded people under 18 or under 16.

The US population is only 54 percent fully vaccinated if this is correct.

I truly believe that the biggest difference between how the US handled smallpox in comparison to COVID ties back to social media. If Facebook and Youtube didn't exist, I bet the US vaccination rate would be in the 80%+ range.

USPS. Illegal aliens. House of Representatives. Senate. Federal courts. Those that work for Congress/Federal courts.

UPS needs to be vaxxed but USPS doesn't? Normal people see that and have normal takeaways.

such as? pfizer is FDA approved.

besides, i'm sure the protocols are a lot more stringent today than they were in 1905, the first time the supreme court ruled that a vaccine mandate was constitutional.

Now I know someone is going to say that they have recently been approved by the FDA but the numbers I see and the fact that you need booster shots so quickly shows to me that it is still indeed in it's experimental stage.

God bless to all.

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi said at a press conference on April 29 that the House couldn't require members to be vaccinated. Video clips of those remarks gained renewed attention online following Biden's announcement.

"So—so here is the thing. We are—we cannot require someone to be vaccinated. That's just not what we can do. It is a matter of privacy to know who is or who isn't," Pelosi said."

What a complete load of horse $#!+. What's good for thee is not good for me. Ah, the liberal elite.

They are different in name and liability only as the Pfizer vaccines approved for use under the EUA and approved by the FDA have the same formulation.

"The FDA-approved COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) and the FDA-authorized Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine under Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) have the same formulation and can be used interchangeably to provide the COVID-19 vaccination series."

No disagreement from me. I would add that I believe the MSM is also very much culpable.

they are exactly the same.

Smallpox, Measles, Mumps, Rubella (German Measles), Polio, Varicella (Chicken Pox), Rota, HPV, Hepatitis A & B - all of these are viruses and are part of the childhood vaccines that all our kids get (Except smallpox because it's been eradicated from the world). They are diseases caused by viruses. The two are not mutually exclusive.

The bacterial immunizations that kids get are Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis (whooping cough), HiB, Pneumococcus, and Meningococcus. Those are also disease, but are caused by bacteria.

Most of the vaccines your kids get before going to school are vaccines against viruses.

Hear of many people getting Chicken Pox lately? I had it as a kid - so did all my siblings and friends had it. The vaccine for the VIRUS was released in the US in 1995 and now it's pretty much gone - would be entirely gone if it weren't for antivaxxers.

My parents both had Measles.

I've been practicing medicine since 2006 - 15 years now. I've seen precisely 1 case of Chicken Pox and zero cases of Measles and I'm closing in on somewhere around 60,000 patient encounters in my career.

As far as speed, yes, it took longer to develop the small pox vaccine and the polio vaccine because they were the first vaccines ever developed. We're much better at it now because technology has advanced.

What has to be looked at is safety data because it can be accumulated at different rates depending on how many people you're studying. The Pfizer/Moderna vaccines enrolled 10s of thousands of participants for the phase III trials and it's the same safety data protocols that we use for every other medication. They've been shown to be safe.

When you go to your doctor, do you ask for 20+ year old drugs only? Do you even know how long they've been out or how large of a study was done on them?

Many of the new medications that I've used on my patients over the years have received FDA approval with studies that are 1/10 the size of the studies that Pfizer/Moderna did on these vaccines. Ever heard of another Pfizer medication Lipitor (Atorvastatin)? If I remember right, their safety data from that medication was somewhere around 3000-6000 people - that's a normal sized study to get a medication approved in the US. Comparably, and again, these numbers are off the top of my head, but Pfizer's phase III study was 30,000 people. And as of me writing this, it's had well over 100 million doses given in the US.

I've looked at the safety data. I do this for every drug I give. The vaccines are safe and the studies proved this. I said this in a previous thread, but if you give a million people a shot in the arm of saline solution, you're going to have at least 1 person drop dead from it. There is risk in everything you put in to your body and that includes food - a random salad from the grocery store could give you E. Coli and a random egg from the same store could give you Salmonella.

Is the vaccine perfect? No. Is it safe? As far as the medical community describes "safe," then yes, it's safe. And it's a lot safer than a lot of the medications that we prescribe people every single day.

16,500 people die each year in the USA from gastrointestinal bleeding related to the use of NSAIDs like Motrin and Aspirin. How many of you take aspirin every day? How many of you take Motrin or other NSAIDs? We do not have 16,500 people dying from COVID vaccines. It's only been a small handful of people that have died from it.

Are you ok with taking aspirin or Motrin/Ibuprofen? How many of you that refuse the vaccine take these medicines or Celebrex or Naproxen? I've seen people (multiple) in my career die from aspirin, Motrin, and Naproxen.

How about Allopurinol? How many of you take that for Gout prevention? I've seen two different people die from Allopurinol during my career. I've seen somebody die from Xeralto. Do any of you take that? I've seen someone die from Lisinopril and another from Diltiazem. Do any of you folks refusing the vaccine take those? I've seen multiple people die from just getting an IV. Just a needle in a vein that got infected and caused eventual death.

12000 people have not died from the vaccine. Those are all-cause deaths after receiving the vaccine. A certain % of people are going to die even if you do nothing just because people die. You can't immunize 100s of millions of people without a number of people dying after the receiving the vaccine because they would have died anyways.

Again, if you give a million people a shot of saline, at least one guy out there will die.

The difference between the death rate of people who got the vaccine and a similar group of people, the death rate for the vaccinated group is a clinically insignificant number of people.

There's only been a handful of people who've for certain died directly from the vaccine.

This data has been twisted by people who are looking for reasons to question it's safety.

And it's definitely been overwhelming proven that even though your risk of dying of COVID is low, it's higher than getting the vaccine by a long-shot. And we also have tons of people who are surviving COVID who are now permanently disabled from the disease even though they survived. Additionally, we have a ton of people dying from heart attacks and strokes in the first year after having the disease that is statistically much higher than those who didn't.

The vaccine prevents death, but also prevents debilitating disease that will change your life forever.

EDIT: From my experience and talking to colleagues across the country, by far, the people currently dying from COVID and ending up in the ICU from COVID (by the way, if you end up in the ICU from COVID, you can probably expect your health/body to never be the same) are unvaccinated individuals and it seems to be more than a 10:1 ratio.

I work couple people that got the vacvine but still got covid. Ive been on the fence myself. One thing Im not on the fence about is it should be an individuals decision and not forced on them.

Read about how they died. It is in the reports.

They did not get hit by a bus or fall from a building after the shot, they died from the shot.

That would be how they reported Covid deaths previously. No matter how you die, if you died with Covid, it was Covid.

And that with an admittedly faulty test being run at much higher cycles than it should be.

And again, like I said in the beginning of this thread, I also don't think anyone should be forced by the Federal Govt to get vaccinated. But I also believe that they shouldn't have to. It's unfortunate that it's come to this.

The safety data are out and the medical-scientific community is in agreement except for a few partisans. There's always a whacko in the group.

Suddenly, COVID has become the Ebola on steroids and a mass extinction event will occur if we don’t get 100% vaccinated. Crazy how mankind made it all the way to 2020 without the mass hysteria! It’s a wonder how we all survived! Lol

Just a FYI moment

VAERS is basically set up for generating research hypothesis. It requires physician/researcher review and assessment and it is absolutely NOT set up as a diagnostic tool. There needs to be physician diagnostics used to understand situations, and VAERS is NONE of that.

There are OTHER Vax Safety databases which are not essentially crowd sourced (like VAERS) that are better for that purpose.

A number of folks pushing shady information about vaccination are pulling data from VAERS and making it sound like that data is absolute, fully vetted, ironclad, fact. Its not. It can be and is abused and full of info that doesnt really compute. How can that be said? Because, again, there are other vaccine databases with far more sensitivity and higher quality measures to help parse out risk and poor impacts as a result of vaccinations.

“ Key considerations and limitations of VAERS data:

Vaccine providers are encouraged to report any clinically significant health problem following vaccination to VAERS, whether or not they believe the vaccine was the cause.

Reports may include incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental and unverified information. The number of reports alone cannot be interpreted or used to reach conclusions about the existence, severity, frequency, or rates of problems associated with vaccines.

VAERS data is limited to vaccine adverse event reports received between 1990 and the most recent date for which data are available.

VAERS data do not represent all known safety information for a vaccine and should be interpreted in the context of other scientific information.”

Just like my examples above of Xeralto, Lisinopril, Allopurinol, etc, I have horror stories to tell. And I still prescribe these medicines. But horror stories don't dictate safety. Studies do.

If you made all your decisions based on just anecdotal horror stories, you'd live your life paralyzed by fear.

There is a reason a catch-all annual vaccine isn't available for the "common cold".

Yes, because there are multiple different viruses which cause the common cold (rhinovirus, coronavirus, adenovirus, HPIV, RSV, etc.). Same for the flu.

COVID is caused only by a single coronavirus, and I believe it more generally shares that similarity with the diseases Ike listed above for which we have successfully developed vaccines.

Strange that out of the few cases I know of a couple of them and it’s not like I know more than a couple hundred people that have received the shot. From what I’ve seen of the disease and the shot in people under 60, I would much rather take my chances with the disease. That should be my right…. I apply for New Mexico elk tags with odds of 1:1000. I don’t want to apply for irregular heartbeats with the same odds.

It should be on every media outlet.

The total deaths attributed to the Covid vaccines as of 8/27/21, according to the CDC’s VAERS system - 13,911.

Total deaths from all other vaccines from the same source for the period of 1990 to present - 8,886.

Is there some better source of information that says only a few people have died from the injections?

Man, even a broken clock is right twice a day. What you provided is a list of deaths "associated" (their word, not mine) with COVID vaccinations, with the association being the timing of death relative to the receipt of the COVID vaccine.

What it is not is a list of deaths "attributed" to the vaccine which implies a causal relationship.

I've linked a page from the CDC website and the below is from that page and spells out exactly what you have wrong:

" FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem."

What about those who have been vaccinated and then contracted a breakthrough COVID infection? Does that “natural” exposure after vaccination confer greater benefit?

I guess you missed this part of the CDC page that states:

"Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 375 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 7, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 7,439 reports of death (0.0020%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem."

Also, did the CDC require "adverse events" from the other vaccines to be reported, like they have for COVID? I honestly don't know the answer to that. But, if not, then comparing those 2 numbers is meaningless.

Matt

When a drug is first designed, the company that makes it runs a double-blind placebo-controlled study on a number of people that they decide they'll test. There's 3 phases which involves getting the dose right and paying a few people to be guinea pigs, all the way up to phase III where a 100s to 1000s of people are enlisted. Data on side effects and efficacy is then presented to the FDA for approval. The FDA board has a large group of scientists that examine the data and vote on approval or denial for use in the USA.

For a drug to be approved, the company has to do several things: 1. They have to present all the safety data, even if some of it is not great. 2. They have to perform their studies in a manner that is accepted by the scientific community to be free of prejudice, flaws in data gathering, loopholes to find results they're looking for, etc. 3. They have to show that the thing that they're trying to accomplish outweighs the risks associated with taking it in the first place.

After all this happens and their drug is FDA approved for use (and the COVID vaccine was initially given an emergency use authorization, but the formal FDA approval process has concluded and Pfizer's vaccine has been FDA approved, officially ending any title of 'experimental,' Moderna's vaccine is scheduled for an up or down vote soon), again, after all the above is done and a drug is approved, then post-release data is continued to be collected by the government and the manufacturer. The purpose of this is to catch the "one-in-a-millions," the ultra-rare side effects that didn't present in numbers sufficiently in the phase III trials in numbers sufficiently to be statistically significant.

What we were told as we rolled out the vaccine, was that we were to report to VAERS everything, no matter what. It was not our job to say if it was from the vaccine or not, but rather to report everything and let the mass of data be analyzed by the epidemiologists and the statisticians. This is how that oft-quoted number of deaths that has been circulating, mainly by people and news-sources already hostile to the vaccine due to the political timing of its release, got mentioned in the first place. And it continues to circulate.

But people who understand how this works, understand that those numbers were just reported because they happened. A detailed analysis of that data and data collected since the release of the vaccine have shown that only a small handful of people have died as a direct result of the vaccine. Blindly interpreting that data is using post hoc logic: Just because a butterfly flaps its wings in China and it then starts raining in Chicago, doesn't mean that the butterfly caused the rainstorm.

This system is how it was shown that Vioxx increased risk of cardiovascular death back in the early 2000s. It was shown that Merck hid data that showed it because they were incredulous to the idea that an NSAID could increase risk of heart attack and stroke. And it barely did, but it did. And it was shown in after-market research. Vioxx was subsequently pulled from the market and Merck was fined heavily and sued by a lot of people.

Nonetheless, with the release of EVERY SINGLE MEDICATION EVER, there have been people who've taken it and died, not because of the medication, but because people die. All the time. Every day in the US, about 7500 people die - about one every 12 seconds. Again, all-cause mortality data. It's only useful when you compare it to a control group: When you compare the people who got the vaccine and use a control, that VAERS death statistic is brought into context because people who get the vaccine don't die more than then the average, typical death rate that we would expect for that group of people.

Pfizer was involved in one of the biggest lawsuits in the medical industry, a $2.3 BILLION settlement, with a record breaking $1.3 BILLION criminal fine. One of the major violations was kickbacks. So when your doctor pushes the vaccine, ask him/her who is signing the paycheck.

And I've said my entire career: If you're about to die, lose a limb, or an eye, an ER in the US is the best place for you to be. But as far as regular care, ER doctors are not great at it. Because it's not their training. They're trained to save you right now.

I'm Family Practice trained, but do a lot of ER work now and let me tell you, when I see a patient in the out-patient clinic with a BP of 174/105, we're talking about it and doing something about it. When I see that same BP in the ER, 99% of the time I'm not doing a damn thing about it.

There's a few reasons for that: 1. blood pressures in the ER are much higher than average because of the nature of what brings people into the ER, and 2. 174/105 is not going to kill you right now - it's going to kill you eventually. My job in the ER is to make sure you don't die right now. Your moderately high BP will be rechecked by your regular doctor and it's his job to do something about it. But your BP being that high for a week is not going to kill you.

FTR, I'm 43, have a BMI of 22, and my BP runs about 125/85. Put me in the sheep mountains and I'll get my BP up to 174/105 climbing a mountain going after a sheep no problem. Having a BP that high is actually somewhat normal under certain circumstances. It's just bad for you to have it all the time. Your ER doctor doesn't know if you have a BP that high all the time because, again, 1. lots of people's BP is high in the ER while being normal under normal circumstances and 2. it's not his job to do it. If we handed out BP meds in the ER to everyone who's BP was high in the ER, 1/2 of America would be on BP meds and not need them - it's not the appropriate place to take care of it.

Now, if your BP was 240/140, then yeah, I'm doing something about it right now. But honestly, 174/105 is no big deal in the ER.

14,000 people did not die from the vaccine.

Some people have selective hearing. Apparently others have selective reading.

I'm convinced you have a comprehension disability. Not that there's anything wrong with that...But c'mon man, you're embarrassing yourself.

Matt

My body my choice! Why is that only ok for women and killing a baby? With no legal grounds for the father to have any say. Re-enforced by harris's statements yesterday. Even going so far as to say no legislative branch can circumvent the Constitution.

What seems to me, is that there is an agenda. Call me a crazy conspiracy theorist, but I don't think it's about my, my families, or the American public's safety though.

Fact is Covid sucks. BUT, I certainly don't trust the hypoliticians to tell me what to do. The more they push, the less I trust. For something that is less deadly than driving a car. Especially when they turn their backs on Afghanistan, and the border. If this is so bad, and the shot is so right, why aren't they forcing them to comply before illegal entry and release? And on top of that, treating these immigrants better than our own, and more so our Veterans!!!! Thank you to all that have served. You have given so much!! You deserve far better!

Divide, distract, and conquer the people, as so many have already said here. Take more power, never to be restored to the people again. Pay no attention to the new world order! Nothing to see here, get on the train if you have a star, move along if you don't.

Dr's and lawyers practice. I DO my job. Not saying med pro's aren't looking out for us, but how many of you have been rushed by your Dr, after waiting patiently so long for that brief visit and prescription? Try this, if not better, come back. Someone else on here made the comment that most primary physicians don't know enough about covid. Then WHY are we going to see them, and WHY do I care what they think about the shot? REALLY?? And you are a med pro? Ridiculous!! Thanks for giving me another reason to make my own decision. I myself almost died from strep because a Dr did that to me, and then refused to see me 48 hours later when I was much, much worse. Because he was too busy meeting with his pharmacy reps. All the while ignoring me in the waiting room. Obviously, I survived. Thanks to a great Dr. that got me in right away.

Not to mention the censorship, mis-information, and BS fact checkers. Nothing is real, except this is America. We are different from every other country because we stood up to a tyrannical government said ENOUGH, AND FORMED A NATION BASED ON INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS. Not a nation of "well if most people say so, then ok, I guess it'sbest for me too" said in Snuffilufagus's voice.

Freedom is choice, not yours for me, but mine for me! No choice is no freedom.

As far as approval for these shots goes, same alphabet soup agency backing some agenda they won't disclose. I know, I must be some idiot who doesn't give a crap about anybody else.

If the shot is so great, why is everyone who took it, still so scarred of those who didn't? Why do you have to be protected? Didn't he shot do that?

If you haven't figured it out by now, I did not, and don't plan on getting the shot. I am just selfish and don't care about anyone or anything. So, I guess this will be the last you will hear from me, as I am surely going to die soon. Oh, and probably as a mass murderer, as I am obviously killing many, many people!

can you copy and past the part where it says 7000 deaths were caused by the vaccine?

That was me.

And it's true because it's not your average family doc's job to know a lot about COVID. That comment was in reference to the "experts." Your family doc's job is to know enough about COVID to tell you that you should get the shot and the average doc is doing that as the average doc is vaccinated.

The people that know a lot about COVID are the ER docs at the big hospitals, the Intensivists, etc, the people taking care of the very sick people and the people in the academic institutions, the epidemiologists, the immunologists, the pulmonologists, these are the people that you should be listening to and they are saying overwhelmingly that you should get it. They are the ones that actually know what they're talking about - not lay people who got their info off of FB, a cousin, or an alt-right/left "news" website.

And the general disdain and disrespect for Health Care Workers/Provider/Doctors/etc that's been spewed on this thread is common for what we have to deal with on a regular basis. A generally unthankful population that disrespect who we are and what we do. But whatever, it is what it is. Just remember though, karma's a bitch. Remember your words the next time you walk in to an ER with your child on the edge of death or your dismembered hand in a bag. I've seen so many lives saved and so much good done through so much beneficence by HCWs over the decades all the while being spat on and accused of nonsense.

So please correct me, I think I totally took what you said the wrong way....... my primary doesn't know enough about Covid to treat me, just enough to tell me to get the shot. But he is not a vax/shot expert either. So, which is it? He either has the knowledge required to speak, or he is just spewing rhetoric. Can't be both my friend.

As far as the other and more knowledgeable that you referenced, pretty sure I can find just as many nay's as yay's. Just depends how hard you want to look. As I said before, there is so much crap out there, you can find what you want to support whatever position you want to take.

Full disclosure ... I Honestly don't care what you reply with. My mind is made up. So is yours. You've stated your position. I have stated mine. Nothing is going to change either. We will part friends. The difference is, I am not going to try and shame you to conform. You made your choice, and that is YOUR choice. Nothing to do with me. And I respect your decision, as you should respect mine.

Terrible advice. I am all for advocating for yourself when healthcare is concerned, but to suggest that laypeople ignore their doctor's advice is foolish. That is how people start taking veterinary products and ending up in the ER as a result.

"So almost 14,000 people died from the vaccine but yet no big deal because the number is small compared to the total number vaccinated."

No, that is not the case as has been explained multiple times in this very thread.

"World population. 7.85 billion. WW covid deaths. 4,611,170. Chances of you dying from the Covid 19. 0.0587%. Shove your x-vaxs where the sun dont shine o'biden-ho."

So, put it right next to your critical thinking skills?

This site has become almost unbelievable with the amount of misinformation that has been passed around.

I guess plain and simple, minds are made up. So go ahead, keep shaming, guilting, buying, paying, yelling, coercing threatening, blackmailing, blacklisting, starving, forcing... whatever tactic you want.

Looks like the line in the sand might get drawn soon.

THIS is the guy trying to tell YOU what is "best for you".... and some of you eat it up like you're auditioning for a yogurt commercial. My question is.... not what is wrong with Joe Biden (he's clearly cooked... put a fork in him), but WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? Anyone who could keep defending this guy as being even semi viable as the President of the United States, well, let's just say almost all of your M&Ms must be the same color.

Why not copy and paste the rest of that paragraph? Oh, I know, because it doesn't fit your ignorant narrative. You're special, dude.

Matt

There is a virus going around. It might kill you. You might choke to death today to. On your breakfast. What now?

There are a list of things time has shown to be effective in the short term, of preventing severe illness. The vax being one of them. But, stats say the real thing doesn’t present severe illness. To almost everyone.

So, I can’t get my mind around the reality that individuals aren’t given the chance to decide what’s best for themselves. I reckon that freedom is in danger of being eradicated. And, we are still going to be fighting this virus.

But, they’ll feel better knowing you are “doing your part” to protect them. Good grief. SMH.

Ronald Regan once said “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on to them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.”

That generation, that time, is here. Freedom and safety are not mutually exclusive. Nor are they synonyms.

wasn't there more to that sentence and paragraph? why did you only copy and paste part of it?

I imagine this being a shit show that will be in the courts for years.

So, you choose to believe one part of the paragraph, but not the rest? You're so cute.

Matt

I’m the exact opposite of a hypochondriac. I barely take an Aleve when my joints hurt and so far to my knowledge zero deaths from Aleve.

There are currently about 6500 people from all over the country and all over the world where I work. The numbers match with the outside world. Maybe a hair higher and “they” say the spike is going to be bad. They. Pfft. I had Covid and lived to tell about it. I feel great. Meanwhile just yesterday I got news that a friend’s son has Covid. Their entire family is vaccinated.

This crap reminds me of the movie War of the Worlds. Sheep I tell ya!

The funny part about that is that people have been duped to think that incompetent morons placed into positions of borrowed and delegated authority actually have the power to remove freedom from millions of people. That in itself is the biggest hoax in the history of histories for mankind...

Don't you ever tire of being kicked off the Bowsite, only to return under a new fake registration? Why not register under your real name, per Pat's rules, and stop with the charade?

Matt

do you understand there is a difference between dying after getting vaccinated and dying because of the vaccination? you could say the same thing about all those people who died only change the after getting vaccinated part to after brushing their teeth. medical professionals are required by law to report any death within a certain period of time after the vaccination, regardless of what the cause of death was.

Good luck to the government trying to force this shot on people. They are going to need it when the rubber meets the road.

I present to you the “New World Order” in one image.

Who could ever imagine a world where there is no other crime so that 7 obese police officers would be free to arrest a person who sits in silence alone away from the world.

Not wearing a mask anymore makes you a more dangerous criminal than murderers, rapists, thieves and fraudsters. And some still think it's about viros...

How comes they don’t mandate healthy eating and exercise??

Matt

Response to COVID related deaths (from getting the actual virus): 'these mortality numbers are inflated! There's no way those are all are deaths from COVID. This information is misleading!'

Response to COVID related deaths (from vaccine using the same criteria for inclusion): 'see how dangerous the vaccine is! It's killing thousands!'

and... Response to getting COVID vaccine (before it was officially approved of course): 'I don't want to be a pin-cushion experiment! There is no data to show it's safe - there's no way I want any part of that!'

Response to use of ivermectin for COVID (despite having no evidence to support it's use in COVID at this point in time - there's a difference between in vitro and in vivo): 'it's a miracle drug! That's the drug I want!

I work in an ICU in one of the busier hospitals in the state. 95% of our ICU patients who are COVID positive are unvaccinated. And if you end up ICU - your prognosis is not good. FWIW - I have not seen a single patient who presented with a reaction from the vaccine.

We are running out of ventilators - that includes all those pts who get admitted for reasons unrelated to COVID as well. At current state, COVID patients are taking up all of our resources (ICU beds, vents, meds which are now on shortage, and of course nurses and other healthcare workers - who are all burnt out and leaving their jobs and leaving departments short staffed).

Imagine being in a serious car accident and not having the necessary medical care you need. It's not that far from that here. And I'm sure we aren't the only ones.

If you look at this from a pure mortality standpoint, you're missing the most concerning aspects to this disease.

I got vaccinated. My family got vaccinated. My oldest has asthma. We did our own risk assessment and spoke with doctors we respect.

I am not a sheep. I am not a shill for the CCP. I think an awful lot of this has been a cluster. I think plenty of people are capitalizing on this. It’s human nature.

Do I believe that I have the right to force someone to do something? No.

Do I believe that getting vaccinated is prudent? Yes. Not because of being told. But because of the math that I’ve looked at. And anecdotal cases that I know of. I am not as concerned about statistical mortality from Covid, which is small. The Long Haul impacts of Covid are more frequent and bad enough.

So. I don’t agree with those who are anti-vaxxers. Because I weighed things out differently. But I’m not going to carry on about them.

Well... if you think that the vaccine is going to make spoons stick to you or that injected micro-chips will broadcast government propaganda through your fillings, I might comment.

But I can understand concerns about early adoption.

I got vaxxed. I’m not dead yet. My family got vaxxed. They’re not dead yet. If the CCP PLA targeted us, they missed so far.

If you have a doctor or hospital or clinic that you would trust if you had a medical emergency and needed help, maybe ask their opinion of the vaccines. Make your decision. If you get really sick, you’d go to them, right?

Antibodies from natural infection are apparently superior, but may come with costs other than 1.8% mortality. Your decision.

But... maybe take a breather. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a cretinous, mouth-breathing, sheeple, Illuminati, whatever. On either side of the issue. Some data has been collected. Some knowledge and statistics gained, but there are a lot of unknowns.

Recognize that you are making decisions with incomplete information.

And just as an aside. No CCP shill. I’m Swedish. Scandinavians are commonly Vitamin D deficient. So, yeah. I’m taking some D3, Zinc, N Acetyl Cysteine, Vitamin K to supplement trying to eat right, get good sleep, exercise and wash my hands frequently... just like Grandma advocated. Figure it might help, can’t hurt and my investment is about $0.28 per day.

YMMV

I wish you all the best.

For the “must get the vax guys”, if y’all think the vax is foolproof and will protect you, why must others get it ? Everybody that wants it gets it, they’re protected, who cares about the “no vaxxers” ? They’ve made their decision and it can’t hurt you, right ? Right ?

Drycreek, I also have two stents in the LAD. I also have never had high cholesterol. I was 43 at the time of stenting. My problem is bad genetics passed down from my mothers family. Maybe a doc can chime in here, but coronary artery blockages develop over time, they don’t don’t build up over a period of a few weeks. If the blockage gets to the point of restricting flow then they cause chest pain symptoms. If the blockage breaks loose and becomes a clot then you are really screwed. Nobody knows how long they’ve had a blockage unless they are having it checked regularly, and I know for sure that I’m not signing up for a yearly heart cath because of the radiation and cost. If you weren’t implying that COVID caused your heart issues then please excuse me, I apologize.

Wait that can’t be true the government says Ivermectin does not work abort abort!!!

My father suffered from heart disease like you, so I'm familiar with your fight. He had quadruple bypass surgery at 65, and eventually died of congestive heart failure at 82. Genetics often trumps lifestyle choices. Fortunately, I seem to have inherited my Mother's heart genes. At 59 I show none of the classic symptoms of heart problems, even though I still foolishly engage in a few unhealthy habits.

I guess you have to play the cards God deals to you. It sounds like you are making the most out of the hands you were dealt. I'll think of you in my prayers, my friends. Thanks for sharing your situations.

Matt

can you cut and paste the part in the CDC link that you provided that said all those people were perfectly healthy?

IMO it's not the vax that is the question. Good, bad, antibody immunity, treatments.... necessary or not so much, that's up for fair honest debate IMO. And do what you see as best for YOU. I will say, never take anything these megalomaniacs say on face value. You think none of this has been played for politics you're naive at best and I'll leave it at that.

It's the psychos that DEMAND you get yours.... or else. You have people, whack job elitist along with some medical professionals staging "walk outs" saying if non-vaxed get sick they shouldn't be treated. Funny no mention that the real threat to one's life is you might be Fat Bastard and should be denied by the same logic. Drug user, alcoholic, smoker, gang banger with gunshot wounds..... that's cool, deny them all. Naw... nothing crazy here, move along....

I'm tired of the crazy and paranoid. Just go away, leave me alone, sit down and STFU. Or go crawl into your hole and pull the dirt in after you in fear. They don't run my life, and have no right to tell me what I must have injected into my body. That is the epitome, the very definition of personal freedom. Do what you want. Get 5 vaxes, wear 3 masks while locked in your house or car. I. Don't. Care.

I'm vaxed. For now. I'm not getting another one.... because they are and never were honest about this one. Telling me now I'll need another. And another. And another. You are demanded to live in catatonic fear..... of something they won't even tell you the current fatality rate of because it's such a low percentage. Hint: it's a good deal less than they have said, as they are now ramping up how many have have it that weren't "counted" as had it and recovered. Nor will they even discuss things like acquired immunity effectiveness, preventative options being studied, etc. That just muddies up their plans. Much less talk about Fausi et al lying about $3+million given to Wuhan to study GOF which was verboten here, so they do the end around and then lie to Congress about it.

I'm vaxed but after listening to the threats and demands of House Plant and others I want to tear up that card and toss it in their faces. You want folks to get vaxed? Calling names, threats and making demands isn't going to do it. You just picked a fight, not convinced someone it was the right call for them. Great job. You're talking more respectfully to the flippin' Taliban.

When I was a kid I hated beets. If told I couldn't leave the table till I ate them all.... wake me up when it's time for school, I'm sleeping here in this chair all night and will pizz on the floor if I have to go. Spank me, beat me..... I ain't eating them, I don't care they are good for me. Same attitude packing elk, pretty much everything. I imagine many of the more successful bowhunters have some form or another of this, um, attitude. Some are successful on pure talent.... some just have no give up and the more resistance the greater the fight.

Where is this headed? When will it end? Crickets. We were already promised no mandates, no mandatory shots. More lies on top of other lies when they need cover, compliance.... obedience. Just like 2 weeks to flatten the curve. No political advantage in that.

Next phase.... well, in the 1930s it was a neck tattoo.... these modern Nazi's are talking embedded chips for passes, vaccine updates and contact tracing. For the Globalist New World Order.

Who is the Emperor behind our Demented Darth Vader?

As for my personal belief, for most of us the vaccine won’t matter for us directly. The numbers don’t lie, most of us survive just fine. But the stories floating around aren’t most of us. Guy from my highschool in his mid 30s, on a vent(true story). I had Covid last October and hiked mountains all week never knowing I was even sick(gasp, true story).

Annecdotal doesn’t work for data. Everyone knows a guy. The disease is survivable by most of the population. The vaccine is far more survivable regardless what numbers you use. We talk of freedoms but snub our nose at safe remedies to potentially get us back to a normalcy in society.

I do pray vaccines remain a choice for all of us. I also pray that everyone stops trying to be a know it all and makes the best choice for themselves based off of the advice of others who know more than them on this topic. I got a doctorate in pharmacy and chose for myself to get the vaccine, my wife also chose to as well (believe it or not from no pressure from me, we both naturally had Covid already). If you don’t, I’ll still share a campfire with you. But I’ve read the numbers without a political spin. If I was 70 or diabetic or had COPD, I likely wouldn’t share that same campfire with you.

I just hate how both sides made a medical decision their line in the sand for political rants that have gone on for generations… leave the country open, let people choose, and make the data readily available. Unfortunately, social media has made unbiased opinions in my utopia impossible. Small town doctors who see 100 patients a year told my neighbor the opposite of an epidemiologist so who am I to believe.

You aren’t alone in your confusion. I didn’t and honestly don’t care if I catch Covid. But I pray every day my parents get vaccinated, and I got vaccinated myself 4 months after having it. I trust the hard data and despite my thoughts on government overreach I believe my choice to be a safe choice for 99.99% of Americans. That may be the nanochips talking though…

I can’t say vaccination for everyone is the best or not. I do not believe that at this point. But, I’ll respect anybody’s decision to do as they see fit. As long as I get the same in return.

There is a precedent for Presidents requiring vaccines going back to George Washington. They are limited in who they can require but they definitely have precedent for doing this.

TEmbry - you are spot on.

Yes, GW required his troops at Valley Forge, already in bad shape and starting to be ravaged by smallpox required his troops to be innoculated. Standing army. Time of war. Stake of the nation in balance. With a disease that had a mortality rate of 30%. Yes, striking similar to todays situation.

Just a FYI moment

Except we have a lunatic mandating it and not a president....

Kamala Harris

Too bad the vaccine doesn't protect the vaccinated. Experts and leaders get an F for messaging during Covid.

I’m in the same boat, but I couldn’t have said it so perfectly.

It's one thing to consider the risks (small as they may be) and make the choice for yourself. But it's another thing entirely to force an injection on people and deny them any legal recourse for future illness or death if that 'small risk' grows larger over time and you hit the unlucky lottery...

Attached is a link to a CBS news article from June 25, 2021 which speaks to breakthrough COVID cases due to the Delta variant. I suppose that article blew the doors off the "cover up" which you are just now being clued into? Joking aside, this topic has been covered extensively by the media for the last ~3 months and should come as no surprise to anyone who has been paying attention.

Matt

if you want to get philosophical, nobody

if you want to find answers, feel free to gjoogle it up

I'll ask one more time. Who, exactly, is being "forced" to get vaccinated for Covid?

Matt

Matt

This Navy Academy assist football coach, for example...

Why don't you talk to your family doctor or someone who works in a critical care hospital their opinion?

I chose to listen to my mother - who is a retired 30+ year virologist who spent her career working on ways to try and control, eliminate, and prevent viruses that were known and lay a path toward being able to quickly develop new ways to control, eliminate and prevent viruses that will inevitably show up. This is what science is. I choose to trust the science.

WHAT we think we know at any given time is NOT what reality often is...... ie any hour of TV programming will have ambulance chasers trying to find victims of Pharma damaged folks that have taken drugs, APPROVED by the FDA, and later found out (insert Gomer Pile-" SURPRISE SURPRISE "here... ) to have unintended consequences...by the hundreds.....I will do you a favor and not even mention Asbestos and Roundup, or DDT....you're welcome.

I've seen enough slant and spin, that I don't blindly take what the CDC nor the FDA says as gospel...I believe this Admin on this subject, just as much as I believe them on the debacle in AFG...they are inept shills at best. Couldn't pour piss out of a boot with directions on the heel.

No one mentioned the big resignations at the FDA this week....hmmmm. I wonder what's up with that???

Lead by example, Biden and staff should all get " vaccines " every Monday morning, on TV, along with Congress...every last one of them.

Nobody cares about the death rate of people , if they did, alcohol, tobacco, street drugs, HIV transmission , out of wedlock child bearing, big boxes of twinkies, Busch Light, etc would all be illegal and perpetrators dealt with by immediate imprisonment and/or euthanasia. Drop the so called concern for your countrymen, admit it's the fear you have for yourself. Isolate until it's over if you think that's the most prudent action, but let the rest of us live.

While we are kneeling to " the science " , bloated inept Gov't agencies, huge Pharmaceutical Corporations ( remember when Haliburton was the devil?? ) Faucism, etc .....let us be real and actually worship at the Altar of Darwinism, like we've been taught for the last 30 years. Natural Selection is.....well....natural. Let Nature run it's course.

And, anyone working in a company with more than 100 employees.

No, they aren't being forced to. They have other options, as Matt is rightly pointing out.

Who is being forced? This Navy Academy assist football coach, for example...

The article clearly says he didn't get the shot. So, again, not forced.

Booker T Washington

Words of wisdom badly needed in the US today.

Until they include "positive Covid antibody test" along with "proof of vaccine" and "negative Covid test"as options, they aren't even approaching mandates logically. Still wouldn't gain my support but at least it would be recognizing the science.

40 million + in the US may have natural immunity likely superior to the vaccine.

No, they aren't being forced to. They have other options, as Matt is rightly pointing out."

I suppose if they made it mandatory you can't drive a car without being vaccinated or tested weekly you, technically, aren't being forced, either.

Same way the came up with 6ft social distancing... it was a reasonable number pulled out of their a#@ (less than 22' but greater than 1'). I see this as a great way to ensure a lot of people get fired from companies that have 103 employees, and not hired by companies that have 97 employees. For a president faced with rising inflation and a labor shortage he sure doesn't seem to be to concerned with getting the nation back on track.

I'm not advocating the government mandates on private or public companies. I think every company should be able to make their own rules with respect to vaccinations. However, if you work for the government, you either accept the conditions of your employment, or find another job. Again, nobody is being forced to get vaccinated.

Matt

I saw an article that Squaw Valley Ski Resort will change its name. After reading the article I couldn't help but think about ths above quote when I read the following paragraph:

"The word “squaw,” derived from the Algonquin language, may have once simply meant “woman,” but over generations, the word morphed into a misogynist and racist term to disparage Indigenous women, according to experts."

So,...experts believe "word morphing", an actual phenomenon these days? Whooda thunk?!

Perhaps "coerced" would be the proper term.

Easy. Anyone who's employer is dumb enough to use coercion against you.

I'd argue that any employee who allows his employer to coerce him into something he doesn't want to do is getting exactly what he/she deserves. No job is worth that. I guess that's why I was never a very good "company man". I much preferred to work for my own companies, and make my own rules.

Matt

But we do tend to see political things eye-to-eye. We don't march to any political drum beats. We're independent thinkers who filter thru the propaganda from both sides to find the truth.

In fact, I'm honored to be compared to Jason.

Matt

I dont see eye to eye on politics with my inlaws but I really like them..well one of them..lol Come to think of it I dont see eye to eye with my Dad on some things..I told him he was in danger of becoming a Neocon..lol But, he is 92 so I cut him some slack

So, what if the gvmt suddenly deemed your property 'eminent domain' In an effort to make room for displaced Afgans? You can take the offer to buy out, or, you can just leave before they mow your house down. Your choices are endless...would you still be splitting hairs over the terminology used to describe it?

Facts.

In fact, I'm honored to be compared to Jason.

You’re too kind, my friend. Right back atcha!

It’s basically a cheap version of the Matrix.

Maybe, maybe not. But the fact remains that anyone that doesn’t want to get the shot, doesn’t have to get the shot.

Matt

According to Biden, if you own a company with over 100 employees, you don't get to make all your own rules.

Matt

Here is a good example why a lot of people dont trust Fauci and this incompetent administration. Bunch of damn idiots

"According to Biden, if you own a company with over 100 employees, you don't get to make all your own rules."

This is what Biden has said, so, now the owner has a choice to make as we now know he is not being forced to comply. He can shut down the company and put 100 plus employees out of work, or, pay the $14,000 per violation fine that Biden has said would incur. No force here, just options, right?

i'm not for the vaccine mandate but isn't there also a weekly testing option?

Who pays for that?

Somewhere along the way, I have become an aging baby boomer. I was born in an age that polio robbed young children of their health and mobility. When the Salk vaccine was developed, the government lined first graders up (and maybe other grades at first) and every child got the shot. To my knowledge, no parental consent, forms or public commentary were present as America was sick of the disease. The vaccine was given despite the knowledge that the vaccine caused polio at an average of 5 incidences per 1,000,000 vaccinated. America was at war against the disease and it was the price to pay.

Vietnam rolled around and the government said we were at war. Young men were drafted against their will in some cases and the government didn't care about your thoughts, individual rights, personal freedoms, or future plans for the most part. It was your duty as an American to serve in a war that many thought unjust.

Today, we have lost nearly 700,000 Americans which is greater than any war we have ever had fought. If our adversary was a foreign government and death were caused by bullet or bomb, we would possibly return to conscription and again we would be laying in rice paddies or freezing in some God forsaken part of the globe to right a terrible wrong. Again, nobody would care about your political beliefs or thoughts of individual freedoms.

Frankly, I don't like the vaccine mandate that effects some Americans, but I do think 700,000 American deaths are too much pain to endure when it is largely preventable. America has always required its citizens to take action in times of war or distress as an act of public service for the benefit of the country.

I don't think this is too different than our historical past.

Matt

ultimately we all do.

The very definition of coercion.

"Today, we have lost nearly 700,000 Americans which is greater than any war we have ever had fought."

600,000 in the American Civil War. These are the deaths accounted for, who knows how many MIA's were actually KIA's...

I still visit many of my family members graves, many who fought in the 40th regiment of the CSA as the Muckalusha Guard. Their tombstones proudly carry their CSA affiliation and fighting unit.

It's not a disconnect, it is a dispute where the government is on record as not protecting human life. 62,502,904 abortions since 1973, and you want to squibble about 700,000? And that does not include Federal funds sent to other countries around the world to pay for abortions done there. Instead of exporting life and liberty we have exported death to the most innocent humans.

Thomas Jefferson correctly predicted the breaking of the state union over the issue of slavery. The future of American culture pivots on the issue of abortion. The founding fathers understood that unlimited government is evil.

It is when a people forget God, that tyrants forge their chains. - Patrick Henry

I can only speak for myself, but I would sacrifice my own welfare if I knew it would help save generations of Americans from this disease. I think it is something that Americans have always done for the benefit of freedom...regardless of how freedom is often defined. I think to glorify individual freedom (as opposed to collective freedoms) puts us closer to the late 60's hippie movement, and Jane Fonda..... than it does Trumpism.

Nobody here is flipping them off, that's you putting words in my mouth. Shame on you. The annual death rate exceeds that and is business as usual in a population of 332,747,461. The issue is government on the one hand issuing death to innocents at home and across the globe and then claiming concern for the health of Americans. Don't be stupid, it's all about control in this day and age of people loving power, rather than the power of love.

Your whole recount of America during the polio era is a tool of deception in that the situation differs by the facts. Most importantly, the shot today is not a vaccination with life long immunity, but an experiment on a national scale. 99.8% of covid infected people recover and have a natural immunity 13% better than people that take the shot. My mother-in-law was a polio victim.

I can agree that reducing obesity is a great idea but putting that into action would be futile. If we don't like being told to get a vaccine that has been proven to provide a level of protection from Covid, good luck telling people what they can and can't eat. What you are saying, in general, is that people who live the standard American lifestyle have done it to themselves so it's their fault if they die. That's pretty harsh. FWIW, not all of the diseases you listed are a personal choice. Genetics play a large part.

More importantly, is it true?

The further a society drifts away from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it. - George Orwell

“not all of the diseases you listed are a personal choice. Genetics play a large part.” Agreed. However how many people with the bad genetics do you know that are at or under their BMI target weight , don’t eat excessive sugars , abstain from alcohol and exercise 7 days a week vs not and rely on prescriptions to manage their symptoms and continue swilling IPAs and yelling more bacon?

I will retain my premise that given the death by Covid is still primarily viewed as a statistic of the elderly, we don't treat it and feel the same way as if those deaths were from a younger demographic. How can that not be determined by the reading of these post? We seem calloused to the fact that our contribution to it's individual spread is sometimes caused by our own negligent actions.

Only speaking for myself and no one else I will do everything in my individual power to slow or eradicate the spread of this disease, my own welfare not withstanding, as I think I owe it to America.

I do feel many of us are 'flipping off the elderly.' If its publicly shameful to point out the obvious... then I have no problem wearing the label individually as a badge of honor.

I think that Fake News travels in both directions.

I'm all for individual accountability. I'm reminded of it everyday when I'm sweating it out on the road exercising, largely because of bad genetics. And yes, I rely on several prescriptions to control a chronic spasm in one of my coronary arteries because I find it's uncontrollable any other way. If God had made us perfectly we would have no need of doctors and medicines, but then we would all be robots without the ability to think for ourselves.

Actually, it's data doesn't lie, but politicians do.

same was true with polio...right up until we eradicated it with a vaccine.

More misinformation. By every measure, COVID is orders of magnitude more deadly than the flu. Last year, COVID killed approximately 500x as many people as the flu.

The only true difference of the vaccine going against the diseases of today vs yesteryear....is in the past we didn't have 24 hour left wing and right wing medias spinning a narrative for their own political viewpoint and ratings; nor did we have the internet to foster fake news to the masses as credible facts. It's proven over and over that you can't have a covid discussion without politics coming into the discussion in short order. Covid isn't a republican or a democrat. Its just a disease that has killed nearly 700,000 Americans and 4.5 million people worldwide.

I know its crazy, but we just used to be concerned about maintaining our health and the health of others. Times sure have changed.

Reading all this back and forth with all the experts here makes me think of one word.

Cockwomble

Carry on gentlemen

Well, yes there was. Just so happens to be that all the things we did to minimize the spread of COVID - hygiene, disinfection, social distancing, shutdowns, masks - happen to work well on the flu as well. And COVID still killed 500 times as many people. It’s also a reference point for what could have happened had we taken no measures against COVID.

with that incredible (literally in-credible) consequence, all we need to do now is figure out what months to start and stop the novel yearly hygiene/ disinfection/ social distancing/ shutdowns/ masks/ eviction moratoriums/ multi- trillion dollar stimulesses/ shortages/ die alone/ stay home/ layoff/ obey the science/ end tyranny/ etc season!?

if done right, we stand to save hundreds of thousands of lives yearly, possibly millions

So, Spikey's conclusion is protecting yourself from viruses causes you to be more susceptible to them when you stop protecting yourself. I don't think you could make this stuff up if you tried.

Matt

immunity doesn't...and never has...meant total and permanent protection. it simply means that there are antibodies present that will help fight a disease or infection.

I’m telling you, you just can’t make sone of this stuff up.

not really. i reckon were are supposed to realize they both offer immunity but getting the vaccine has substantially less risk than getting the virus. millions of people world wide went the virus only route...and they are dead.

Just so I have your take right on this, spike:

Followed COVID protection measures, didn’t get sick.

Stop with the protective measures, got sick.

Your conclusion - the protective measures are to blame for getting you sick.

Did I read that right?

Most of this post is incorrect. Flu wiped out? HA! Hardly! People are more resilient to the flu than SARS-2. If they tested negative for SARS-2, they just moved on because it wasn't the bigger of the two threats...

I realize common sense left the building a long time ago for sone people. However, a natural immune response is a very valid option for almost every single human on the face of the earth if they choose that route.

It’s proving to offer better protection against at other mutations of the virus then the vax. It’s proving to potentially protect a person longer then the shots do. And, it’s proving to be a lot less deadly then inflated death counts first suggested. All this is undeniable.

Its either that or lose my job and I cannot do that right now.

Per the CDC, there was high levels of influenza testing thanks to the pandemic.

Flu activity was unusually low throughout the 2020-2021 flu season both in the United States and globally, despite high levels of testing. During September 28, 2020–May 22, 2021 in the United States, 1,675 (0.2%) of 818,939 respiratory specimens tested by U.S. clinical laboratories were positive for an influenza virus. The low level of flu activity during this past season contributed to dramatically fewer flu illnesses, hospitalizations, and deaths compared with previous flu seasons. For comparison, during the last three seasons before the pandemic, the proportion of respiratory specimens testing positive for influenza peaked between 26.2% and 30.3%.

Most of this post is incorrect

Cutting flu deaths by roughly 99% is “essentially” wiping it out IMO.

You can’t name a single thing incorrect in that post. Stop it.

total bs. mrna vaccines do not expose your immune system to a virus.

both natural and vaccine induced immunity are good but lets talk about common sense. common sense says that its a hell of a lot safer to get immunity via the vaccine than it is to get the virus.

Sense, common or otherwise, seems to be in short supply around here, Ricky.

I’m guessing the correlation is lost on you two.

You are equating the risk from viral exposure associated with an inactivated or attenuated vaccine to that of a live virus.

As I said, sense, common or otherwise, seems to be in short supply on your posts.

yes, i misread you post and i apologize. i do stand by the rest of my post however.

Precisely the problem, an opinion, and the CDC doesn't know if it's coming or going. You still have much to learn little grasshopper...

However, with this virus, it’s no longer acceptable to do that. It’s no longer considered a medical option. Instead, it’s labeled in a way that insinuates anyone who isn’t getting the vax is a simpleton, big browed, caveman.

This virus was politicized from the start. To use as a tool. Common sense has been censored out of social media, big tech platforms, and any where else when qualified individuals have suggested that Fauccu’s approach might not be the best way for everyone. Not because he’s right. As time is showing he’s past blatantly being wrong. Instead, it’s been done that way to justify a means. And, it’s so I’ve sides by design, it’s either convinced or out right turned away people concerning his advice.

You can quote all the links you want. You can twist things to argue all you want. It does not change that 99% of the people who get this is going to be ok. Nor does it change that natural antibodies are superior. Nor does it change that masks might work in a jab but, don’t seem to work very well once common folk wear them. ETC….

It’s always been ok to explore and choose your options on healthcare. It’s always been ok to decide against a vaccine that was this ineffective. I hear you on over whelming the health care field. All I can say is if there is a bed in an icu anywhere, hospital administrations are always promoting filling them.

Health care workers chose their jobs knowing sick people was the norm. Hospitals have been over crowded since medication has extended life spans. And, this virus isn’t the end all policy and public reaction of sone, suggest. You can describe that how ever you like. But, I know what it is. So do you. And, it’s as simple as that. Because the SCIENCE says it is.

Doesn’t change the fact that all the other data I quoted to arrive at that opinion was correct. Fact remains that flu cases and flu deaths have decreased by something on the order of 99%. So, like I said, you haven’t pointed out one thing I stated that was incorrect.

This is about freedom! Nothing else. Americans freedom.

Word it however you want. Play semantics all you want. Mandated, forcing, coercing, bribing, shaming, blackmailing. "You have a choice, just quit" it's the same thing. By force. And don't try to say weekly testing is also a choice. I thought my body my choice means the same weather its a jab in the arm, or a poke up the nose. KMA. 2 bad choices does not equal freedom.

Next it will be about groceries, and not getting them if you not jabbed. The goal posts will continue to move until they establish total control, and we are all surf's to the lords that allow us to live on there land, and take all the taxes they want.

Take it or don't. That is as far as it should go. Any more than that is an attack on freedom. And shame on any of you that think you have the right to tell me what to do.

The jabbed are Not protecting anyone by getting the jab. I am not hurting you by not getting it.

If it is that good, you'll live a long life, and will die. Get jabbed to protect the jabbed.. what a load of crap.

Who, exactly, has ever disputed that contracting and recovering from Covid creates an immune response that is similar, and perhaps superior, to that of the vaccines?

Also, when you say "99% of the people who get this is (sic) going to be ok." are you including the long-haulers who will have life-long health issues from contracting Covid?

And just so we're clear, I haven't contracted Covid, nor have I gotten the jab. In some ways I'm jealous of those of you who have recovered from Covid, with no apparent long-term problems. I'd rather be in that position than the one I'm in now. If someone could definitively tell me that Covid would be no big deal for me, I'd let an infected person cough all over me, and get it over with. But, I think only God knows the answer to that one. So, it appears that getting the vaccine is the least risky way to develop at least some level of immunity for me.

Matt

What most people...[people that value freedom], have a problem with is this idiot Fauci and his stupid rhetoric. I think for most people the vaccine will help. What most of us have a problem with is the fact that we dont trust the present leadership to handle a damn weenie roast, much less run the country. One thing is for sure, if you dont have freedom you will never be safe. But some people keep on thinkin big brother is gonna fix everything...yep, reinventing that square wheel that will never function worth a damn

But, Matt, please, please , please do more research. You will have to look deep for the best info. Try duck duck go, or any other unbiased search engine you can find. Please also look into what is the right jab for you, if that is how you go. They are all a little different.

LMAO ! After reading your last post it is pretty clear you are keeping your local dispensary in business. Glad all is well

Anyone who uses a dispensary is a fool. The stuff literally grows like a weed in a typical flower pot....ummm...so I'm told. Glad you're well too.

Matt

Individual freedoms that were paid with blood are cherished in this country as it should be; but its my opinion that individual freedoms that goes against against the greater good of all sometimes can fall in the same embraced freedoms as defined by the 60's hippie movement, Jane Fonda, and the 'better red than dead' crowd. An anti-vaxxer doesn't fall in the above category, but it shows everyone can have a different take on individual freedom at some level. It depends on your life experience I suppose.

In the case of the Virus, it becomes greatly trivialized at times (same as the flu, Covid deaths wrongly categorized, only old folks get it, etc) without regard of the pregnant mothers dying, diabetics, the elderly, special medical need community or any of the other nearly 700,000 Americans that have perished both Republican, Democrat, healthy, young, and old.

I would just say that while you individually may feel that your going to be in the vast majority of people who recover and get the 'holy grail' natural immunity; I do ask you to think about all the 700,000 who died that got it from 'someone'; many of who were individual 'freedom' advocates. The vaccine's have had many cases of 'break throughs' but they play an important role in preventing death and spread by almost any medical account. The vast number of people on ventilators are the unvaccinated. God only knows who they may have taken with them.

Let's don't diminish the deaths of 700,000 which is more than any war the US has ever had. Someone said earlier that the Civil War may have had more...perhaps if you don't use the official number, but those deaths were over a three year plus period. The virus has done it in a lot shorter time.

Until Biden makes it compulsory for everyone ( I don't support) I guess the choice is yours.

What isn’t debatable is the fear it’s caused by demanding total vaccination in order to return a normalcy to most lives, is hurting America. And, given the facts of the situation, that undeniable.

No, they aren’t. It’s the unvaccinated that are overwhelming hospitals by a wide margin. And this is what is preventing a “return” to normalcy. Having the whole country vaccinated is not “doing the same thing” as there’s still a considerable percentage of the population unvaccinated.

Not at the healthcare system that I work for. An average of 82% of patients hospitalized for the past several weeks are unvaccinated. According to the number of deaths seen over this period of time, you are 11 times more likely to die if you get Covid and are unvaccinated in the area that I live. I'm not a gambler but I don't like those odds.

Same here in the New Orleans area. The numbers have dropped a bit in terms of cases overwhelming the hospitals due to restrictions put in place (can’t go out to eat, see music, etc unless you show that you are vaccinated or show a negative test), but the hospitalizations are still ~90% unvaccinated patients.

I live in Mississippi which has been the least vaccinated state in the country since the start of the vaccine. Mississippians by nature are the most independent people that you will ever meet as we have a long history of defiance of outside influence. I think currently we are 2nd from the bottom for vaccine usage.. I live in the "county* that has the highest per capita of Covid in a state that has the highest per capita in the nation.

The State has paid thousands of out of state nurses to relieve the battered and exhausted healthcare workers here. The paper is full of Covid deaths among the young and old; but pregnant mother deaths are front page. Children under the age of 12 are dying now. I've lost a good friend, a great aunt, and a father in law in the last 6 months. Every week, somebody is listed in the obituary that I know.

Last week headlines was a 74 year old who died. He had a cardiac arrest and a ventilator was searched in 43 hospitals in three states before one was found 200 miles away. His family is publicly begging for people to take the vaccine to relive pressures on the health system.

To say all of this is better than what a vaccine would do.... falls on my deaf ears. I wish my home had the same incident of Covid that some of you do. My home county is averaging 1 death per 145 residents (Link below) Maybe I would have a different perspective if I wasn't at Covid ground zero. Being in my 60's, being a diabetic, and having a rare auto immune disease( that I have to take immunity lowering drugs) doesn't give me the warm and fuzzy in this county.

Warner Thomas, President and CEO of Ochsner Health began the press briefing Thursday with a look at numbers in their hospitals across the state. In total, 1,028 patient are hospitalized with COVID at Ochsner campuses. Thomas says that is a slight decrease from 1,043 last week.

…

The majority of patients hospitalized with COVID are unvaccinated patients. They have 910 unvaccinated patients in total, they say.

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/prevalence-maps.html

Wood, are you sure this is accurate? The PINO Joe supporters tell us this isnt true...just a red herring they call it.

I will say this....Covid is ravaging KY right now. Eastern KY has one of the highest incidence rates in the country. Based on what I've seen just recently, I don't want this virus. Last week a 22 year old kid in my town died of the virus. He was overweight but no other comorbidities that I know of. Earlier this week a a 34 year old guy who attended my church passed from Covid related issues. He was a fitness nut and was in perfect health. They found him dead. It is assumed to be heart related but its not known exactly. I can't speak for the younger kid for sure but it is my understanding the 34 year old was not vaccinated. This is a town of 3,500 people. Most of the others that have died in the area have been older and had comorbidities.

I still think people should have the right to choose whether to be vaccinated or not. My family has chosen to do so.

“An estimated 22% of children and teens were obese last August, up from 19% a year earlier, according to the study. “

https://www.ksdk.com/amp/article/news/health/coronavirus/childhood-obesity-covid-pandemic/507-c952aacd-a797-49ad-84f6-a93badd67de8?__twitter_impression=true

Matt

https://www.bitchute.com/video/Pz0SBTvKrDrV/

To your point; you didn't say exactly that but that was the way it came across to me personally. Maybe you had better intentions but because of the sensitivities at play, it came off differently to some folks. I hear about deaths nearly every day living in the Covid hotspot of America and I have never taken solace that its happening to people not like myself.

All I can say is; what a f***ing mess! Congrats to the lefties. You might actually succed in completely killing this country... that is, after you're done killing 7 Afgahn children...does anyone else see a pattern here?

I will not trade insults. I wish you well.

Ok...lets get back on topic of discussing the vaccine. It's all good on my end.

I might be wrong but I don’t think listing Brittany Spears as an asset helps your case.

Thanks BC

https://m.facebook.com/80221381134/posts/10158207967261135/?d=n

*crickets*

While I'm sure your caretakers don't fall in this classification, even some doctors graduate in the bottom of their medical class. People's actions say a lot more than their words.

I would suspect that all doctors carry malpractice insurance to cover the decisions that they make in a ligation happy society. We also accept the fact that sometimes a second medical opinion is sought.

The *fact* is that doctors are just like the rest of us (albeit medically trained) and they make their own freewill choices and interpretations based the data they are presented. I have three doctors I use and I discussed with each....all overwhelmingly recommended vaccination.

While I'm just one person, I've had the Moderna shots and more recently the third booster. I feel great and after 7 months, I have yet to have a third ear grow from my forehead. I live in an area that 1 out of 145 residents have died. No one in my extended family has caught Covid after two vaccination shots and the family members who have died were unvaccinated.

As it should be the choice is yours. Just don't rely totally on what you read on the internet, cute cartons, or what you heard happened to a friends third cousins sister's boy's best friend. The world is full both intentional and unintentional misinformation, half truths and even lies. It's a lot like politics I suppose in that if you tell a lie long enough, people will start to believe.

For those who think freedom is silly or outdated, there are other "valid" reasons. Medically, natural immunity is proving to be superior to the vaccine with zero of the risks and unknowns of the vaccine. Hard to argue that healthy, recovered people choosing to not get vaccinated are making an invalid choice.

I agree 100% that the choice is an individual one and the choice not just to take it is completely valid. We seem to have folks that can come up with a lot of questionable facts other than 'I don't want to" that can influence others.

I believe that the choice of whether to vax or not will remain with us until the risk of Covid is mitigated; or on the other hand continues its deadly course without abatement. I fear in the latter case, government will eventually take the same course of action taken with other historical long enduring chronic diseases of the past such polio and small pox...and mandate the vaccine for it.

Being a republican and having voted a straight republican ticket in all national races since I could vote since 1980, I could have easily made a freewill choice to be an anti-vaxxer save a chronic medical condition I have,,,,,, and the first hand heartbreak I have witnessed in our community. At heart, I believe that if you choose to step off in front of a semi; that should be your choice.

I'm just saying that I'd rather you not step off in front of the semi and to also choose to look at the merits of the vaccine more closely. The latter as a means to get us out of this mess we are in as what we are doing doesn't seem to be working.

no but natural immunity (aka infection) has all the risks and unknowns of the virus itself, including that pesky little thing called death, for multiple millions world wide.

Agreed. I have no issue with all those people worldwide having the vaccine available.

Listen to comments made by the AG Merrick Garland concerning gun control...this people have no regard for the constitution