Moultrie Products
Turning peep
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
Bigfoot 15-Sep-21
zeke 15-Sep-21
JohnMC 15-Sep-21
>>>---WW----> 15-Sep-21
Matt 15-Sep-21
Grey Ghost 15-Sep-21
AccMan 15-Sep-21
AccMan 15-Sep-21
Bou'bound 16-Sep-21
x-man 16-Sep-21
JL 16-Sep-21
EMB 16-Sep-21
Teeton 16-Sep-21
Grey Ghost 16-Sep-21
Matt 16-Sep-21
Tilzbow 16-Sep-21
Tilzbow 16-Sep-21
midwest 16-Sep-21
Grey Ghost 16-Sep-21
x-man 17-Sep-21
Bob H in NH 17-Sep-21
Buglmin 19-Sep-21
PredatorFromAbove 19-Nov-21
Cornpone 19-Nov-21
Rocky D 20-Nov-21
TD 20-Nov-21
trophyhill 20-Nov-21
Bou'bound 23-Nov-21
rattling_junkie 23-Nov-21
Bou'bound 23-Nov-21
BC173 23-Nov-21
Bou'bound 25-Nov-21
Bowfreak 25-Nov-21
trophyhill 25-Nov-21
Bou'bound 28-Nov-21
badbull 28-Nov-21
Bigfoot 30-Nov-21
Bou'bound 30-Nov-21
TD 30-Nov-21
bigeasygator 02-Dec-21
x-man 03-Dec-21
Bou'bound 03-Dec-21
LINK 03-Dec-21
Cazador 03-Dec-21
JL 03-Dec-21
Bou'bound 04-Dec-21
From: Bigfoot
15-Sep-21
Noticed my peep starting to twist a little while shooting this summer. Not much, but enough that I tried to do something about it. I had read that twisting the peep the opposite direction it is turning and then inserting a small tool to hold the string there, while it is at rest, will help with straightening it out. I found a small allen key to do that and tried it for a few weeks, between shooting sessions. Didn't seem to make much of a difference. I expect, I need to put it in a press to add, or take out, a twist or two in the string.

But, it is hunting season and the closest bow press to me is an hour away. I can still give it a twist, whenever I nock an arrow, and it will stay fairly straight. I practice with my judo, when there are no critters about, while hunting, and shoot an occasional grouse, so it lines up fine still. But, I would like to have it straight without having to check it frequently. Anyone know a method to help with this?

From: zeke
15-Sep-21
Mine does that sometimes. I just hold the string still and twist my loop a little. Loop at rest is out of kilter, but as I draw it straightens out and pulls the peep back into alinement.

From: JohnMC
15-Sep-21
The best thing to do is put in press and twist or untwist string a half turn. If you can't get to a bow press the second best thing is what zeke said. Have your d-loop turned so it corrects peep issue.

15-Sep-21
Simplest solution is to move your peep up or down. It only takes a millimeter or two to get it back where it needs to be.

From: Matt
15-Sep-21
While moving the d-loop on the string to align with the peep can work, I personally would drive the hour to the nearest press and add/delete a twist in the string to get it right.

I wouldn't raise/lower the peep to address the issue - there is a reason your peep is at the height it is.

Keep in mind that your peep is moving because your string material is creeping (permanent elongation) and that may continue to occur, so it might be time to consider replacing your string/cables.

From: Grey Ghost
15-Sep-21
I'm not a fan of any of the suggestions, so far.

If you are as meticulous about tuning as I am, pressing and twisting the string to align the peep is not a good solution because it will change the tune. I know, it may be very slight, but it will be enough to affect the impact of a bare shaft at 40 yards.

Turn the loop? I don't like that one because it introduces a "rudder" affect to the string, which can adversely affect nock travel.

Sliding the peep up or down? Nope. That will change your anchor, and probably require you to re-sight in your pins.

IMO, the best thing to do, if you are happy with the tune on your bow, is to carefully mark the location of the peep. Then press the bow just enough to put a little slack in the string. Take the peep out and re-split the fibers of the string, then re-install the peep. It may take a few attempts to find where the proper split should be, but I can usually get it done in I-2 attempts.

Just my 2 cents,

Matt

From: AccMan
15-Sep-21
If you can press your bow and put slack in the string, separate the two strings and put a piece of dental floss about 4" long through the separated bowstring. Relax the bowpress, leaving the floss trapped between the two strings. You can grab the floss and slide it up and down in the string and your peep will twist, this is good for minor adjustments. You can even make an adjustment when practicing or when up a tree. Then just wax the floss into your bowstring and its ready for the next time.

From: AccMan
15-Sep-21
I forgot to add, put the floss in above your peep.

From: Bou'bound
16-Sep-21
more importantly buy a bowmaster portable press for about 60 bucks and you will never be an hour from a press again. more than sufficient for they type of work we do on our equipment a couple times a year.

From: x-man
16-Sep-21
First of all...twisting the string does not change the tune! Twisting the cables changes the tune.

I also do not recommend sliding the peep while under tension. That can cut string strands.

The safest thing you can do by yourself at home is to turn the string loop a little to compensate. Then get yourself to a bow press as soon as you are able to correct the problem.

From: JL
16-Sep-21
An aside....with APA bows, you don't need a bow press. You can swap strings or cables in the field. I just had to adjust my peep yesterday afternoon probably in less than 90 seconds.

From: EMB
16-Sep-21
I have never found that twisting the string the 1/2 to 1 twist to correct peep rotation affected the tune at all (nor should it) or that adjusting the string or D loop to account for a "slight" alignment issue or to fine tune alignment to affect arrow flight. Sometimes I just can't quite get it there with twisting the string. Maybe I just can't shoot the difference. I also do not recommend moving the peep while under tension. Take the time to remove the tension and then move the peep. I bought a bowmaster portable press years ago as I live no where near a shop.

From: Teeton
16-Sep-21
For small minor adjustment I move my loop. Been doing that for years. So far never a problem. At most I don't think the string moves more than a 1/16 to 1/8 of a twist after doing so, from brace to full draw. never tried the floss thing, next time I may.

From: Grey Ghost
16-Sep-21
I believe it was Randy Ulmer, who I think most would agree has forgotten more about bow tuning than most of us will ever know, explained it this way. He said think of your loop like a tiny rudder on your string, just like a rudder on a boat or airplane. If you rotate your loop in any direction other than on the same plane that the string travels, as soon as you release the arrow, the loop will begin to rotate back to that position, and will act like a rudder steering the string just like a rudder steers a boat or airplane. It can result in the arrow fish-tailing. At one time there was super-slow motion video of this somewhere on the interwebs, but I can't find it, now. Anyway, I can't prove it, but the theory made sense to me.

As for twisting the string not affecting tuning... Every new string that I've ever installed on my bows has required a "break-in" period for them to stretch to a length that they will stay at for a while. In my experience, it usually takes around 100-200 shots for them to settle in. During that period the tune on my bows has constantly changed. Nowadays, I don't even bother fine-tuning my bows until the string has settled in. So, if string stretch changes the tune on the bow, wouldn't it stand to reason that twisting or untwisting the string would also change the tune of the bow? Aren't you effectively changing the draw length, cam rotation, and ATA of the bow when you twist the string?

Xman, please correct me, If I'm wrong. I've alway respected your bow tech knowledge. And I admit that I've been out of the tech loop for quite a while.

Matt

From: Matt
16-Sep-21
"I have never found that twisting the string the 1/2 to 1 twist to correct peep rotation affected the tune at all (nor should it) or that adjusting the string or D loop to account for a "slight" alignment issue or to fine tune alignment to affect arrow flight."

Yeah, I've done that a few times recently (added 1/2 or a full twist to get he peep right) and I couldn't discern any difference in terms of tune of change in point of impact at any yardage Perhaps someone who is as good an archer as Randy Ulmer could, but I doubt many (if any) who frequent this site could.

From: Tilzbow
16-Sep-21
I twist the string and there’s zero impact on tune. If the peep is off just a little a twist of the bottom in the direction it needs to go is a good place to start. If it’s off a moderate amount I’ll twist the top the direction it needs to go and twist the bottom the opposite direction.

From: Tilzbow
16-Sep-21
To add:

A full twist or half twist will have no measurable impact on cam timing, rotation, ATA or brace height. Now a half twist of a buss or control cable will change cam timing by about 1/8”.

I twist my string to get the peep aligned properly and I also adjust the loop so it’s in the right position before drawing and shooting to check the peep alignment.

As GG mentioned, all final adjustments are best done after a few hundred shots to ensure the string is settled

From: midwest
16-Sep-21
"Every new string that I've ever installed on my bows has required a "break-in" period for them to stretch to a length that they will stay at for a while. In my experience, it usually takes around 100-200 shots for them to settle in. During that period the tune on my bows has constantly changed."

So you replace the string without replacing the cables?

From: Grey Ghost
16-Sep-21
Midwest, yes, in some cases I have when the string shows more wear than the cables.

Matt

From: x-man
17-Sep-21
Matt, The string has no affect on cam synch. Twisting the string may change the draw length by .01" per half-twist at most. I'd bet my paycheck that you subconsciously do that already while at full draw.

I think we can all agree that the only "correct" fix is to put the bow in a press and give the string a half twist. If I'm at my deer stand and notice my peep is slightly off, I'm going to give my loop a small turn to correct.

From: Bob H in NH
17-Sep-21
Midwest, yup, when time allows, when I have to swap out string and cables, I do them one at a time. Swap one, get it settled via 100ish shots, retune everything. Do the next piece, repeat 3 times. That way, when something is off, I know it's the new string/cable I just did.

Takes time, but if you have the time, try it!

From: Buglmin
19-Sep-21
Work on turning peeps all the time. And adding 1/2 a twist will do nothing for a peep. Adding twists to the string does not effect cam timing or tuning. If it does, your bow isn't tuned very well to start. And if you buy new strings from a reputable string maker, you won't need 100 shots to settle a new string. Most new strings should have zero stretch or creep.

Put the bow in press, mark the peep, take the peep out and shoot the bow a few times and reinstall the peep. If you twist the loop to align the peep, stretch the loop loop before shooting.

19-Nov-21

PredatorFromAbove's Link
Peep? Switch to the peep eliminator….

From: Cornpone
19-Nov-21
I hate peeps. That's why I shoot a red dot w/HHA slider. Granted...not legal everywhere.

From: Rocky D
20-Nov-21
I side with X Man on that is tech related. Also, I not ever experienced this in 25 years of running a peep and abhor the rubber tube attached to the string.

X Man, have I just been lucky or have I had the right people setting up my bows.

From: TD
20-Nov-21
If the peep is rotating the string is already elongating and creeping. A half or full turn is just bringing it back to where it should be, fixing it not changing it. D loop should handle any minor turning from there. And if you can just slide the peep up or down then it's not tied in very well. =D

I used to wait to do a full tune on new strings and cables until I had 75-100 shots or more through them but with the newer strings I don't think I've had one that wasn't settled in with 10 or 15 shots. Pretty amazing the new materials and construction. Over the years I'd argue that has made as much or more difference in newer bows than nearly anything. The single cam systems were designed to compensate for poor strings, not because it was a more efficient system. I'll still put 20-25 though it and then final tune, but more for my peace of mind than anything. I don't recall anything really moving past 5 or 10 shots.

20-Nov-21
I experience the dreaded rotating peep every now and then. Our bows will talk to us if we are listening. Typically I notice this with a new string and just let it do it’s thing for several hundred shots. Then go in for a tune up. Then several times through the life of the string as the string stretches, the peep rotates some and it’s a tell tale sign it’s time for a tune up. I also have a D-loop tool that holds me over until I can get my bow in to the shop. I can rotate the D-loop with my fingers and then use the tool to tighten the D-loop in place to align the peep. Rinse and repeat when it starts to rotate.

From: Bou'bound
23-Nov-21
Trophyhill if the bow is talking to you as you say it is not telling you it needs a tune-up........................ it’s telling you you put a crappy string on it. Quality strings don’t creep and stretch and result in peep rotation. They just don't.

23-Nov-21
I'm m always curious what a "tune-up" is?

From: Bou'bound
23-Nov-21
Trophyhill the bow is not telling you it needs a tuneup it’s telling you you put a crappy string on it. Quality strings don’t rotate creep and stretch.

From: BC173
23-Nov-21
Good quality strings properly made and installed, just don’t rotate or stretch. I make my own and have never had to make an adjustment, once set. I just wish I could find “loop” material just as good. Seems mine keeps fraying and I have to tie on another. LOL

From: Bou'bound
25-Nov-21
With press not accessible you can insert a screwdriver in the cam across the limbs while bow is partially drawn. That will allow you to work on string with no tension and then remove the screwdriver while drawing and you will be set

From: Bowfreak
25-Nov-21
I would never use a screwdriver as Bou has stated unless it was an absolute emergency. Some bows have beefier cams and could probably withstand it, but skeletonized cams would be suspect. I also don't want the screwdriver pushing into my limbs.

25-Nov-21
If strings didn’t stretch, we would never have to change strings. I’ve tried them all and they all stretch over time. I don’t care who the string makers are. Or maybe this D350 is just too badass for any string to handle. I’m not saying I have my bow in the shop every other week but on occasion a slight movement in that string let’s me know it’s time. All I have to do is look at the sharpie marks I line up on the cam and limb to verify it’s time. Someone asked “what is a tune up?” For me it means getting everything back into factory spec. I guess a guy could put one of those surgical tubes on his bow to stop the unwanted rotation….

From: Bou'bound
28-Nov-21
With press not accessible you can insert a screwdriver in the cam across the limbs while bow is partially drawn. That will allow you to work on string with no tension and then remove the screwdriver while drawing and you will be set

From: badbull
28-Nov-21
Thanks for the thread Bigfoot. This is the type of thread that can help many archers. Interesting solutions to a common problem. I have used most of them and a good archery proshop can be well worthwhile if you don't have a good press.

From: Bigfoot
30-Nov-21
It annoyed me enough that, during the season, I made the hour trek to my closest bow shop and put the bow on a press. After a little fiddling, got the peep lined up again. Spent a little time on my home range to make sure all was good. No problem with accuracy and the tune. But, didn't take long for it to start turning more. Twisting the peep before drawing straightened it out, and the bow still shot accurately, but at rest the peep would twist out of alignment.

The bow is a year and a half old, and I've shot thousands of arrows through it. I had expected some stretch in the first month of shooting, but had no issue with the peep until this summer. I can only guess that a new string is needed, but that does surprise me to see it stretching after a year and a half.

From: Bou'bound
30-Nov-21
You not only need a new string you need a new quality string and your problems will be gone

This is one of those situations like so many where there’s multiple solutions but one right one so choose the right one and get a good string.

There are dozens and dozens of string threads that taught the benefits of various brands on the bowsite just go to the search function and look them up

From: TD
30-Nov-21
Heat can make a string creep, such as leaving it in a hot car (ask me how I know) but outside of that they really don't. They can "wear" as the strands rub against each other, lose volume, etc. but that's a real slow process. A good lube can help that too.

Good strings are or can be expensive. And very few manufacturers put a really good string set on their bows.... I don't recommend anyone replace with factory strings. Alot of folks make that mistake and go right back to the girl that cheated on them.... er, I mean crept on them.....

"just go to the search function and look them up " ROTFLMAO!.... good one.....

From: bigeasygator
02-Dec-21

bigeasygator's Link
Anyone try one of these peep tuners or have any thoughts on these? My peep rotation issues haven't been major but seems like it might be an effective tool to deal with any issues that might pop up.

From: x-man
03-Dec-21
Genius invention

From: Bou'bound
03-Dec-21
Especially at 17.00 plus shipping for a tiny piece of plastic. Couldn’t you do the same with a piece of d-loop Material knotted on each end against the string

From: LINK
03-Dec-21

LINK's Link
These are 1/4 the price and do the same thing. They also help silence the string too….genius

From: Cazador
03-Dec-21

Cazador's embedded Photo
Cazador's embedded Photo
Proven to work since the 80's unlike all these " Quality Strings"

From: JL
03-Dec-21
FWIW.....I think many peeps that are on one moment can get knocked off alignment putting the bow in and out of the case. The string/peep hits or snags something (like a zipper on a canvas case) and that will affect the peep. Treat your peep like a rifle scope....be very gentle and don't bump it.

From: Bou'bound
04-Dec-21
So peeps get bumped on canvas and zipper and move but each shot they are exposed to tremendous force and that happens many 1,000s of times and are fine? Nope

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