NRA guy named as CEO to ATA
General Topic
NRA Exec Jeff Poole heading up ATA
NRA Exec Jeff Poole heading up ATA
Pat Lefemine's Link
ATA just announced they selected a new CEO, former NRA executive Jeff Poole.
Now, I have zero knowledge about this guy. He may be awesome leader, and a hard core bowhunter.
But...I am concerned about an NRA guy at the helm of the Archery Trade Association. NRA has stuck their noses into several issues that, IMO, made archery seasons weaker. I worry about further erosion of bow seasons, increased opportunity for muzzleloaders, crossbows, etc. I hope I'm wrong, but my gut tells me otherwise.
BTW - I am a life member of NRA and completely support their 2A mission. They are vital to our freedom. So this is not a criticism of NRA whatsoever.
Anyone feel the same? Disagree?
Try and get an interview with him to post here.
I have no opinion until I know where he stands on bow hunting. I agree that a Bowsite interview would be a good thing, if he's willing.
Matt
So, what is the ATA pushing hard this year? More open x-bow seasons?
That crowd is growing at a rapid pace. I was at the archery shop the other day getting my daughters bow set up that she got for Christmas and the guy helping me said sales are 50/50 right now.
Wow.. only 50/50?? Id expect 72/25..... only a matter of time.....
My gut tells me that this is not going to end well for those of us who shoot vertical bows.
Thanks for the heads up Pat. I say we give the guy the benefit of the doubt.
Remember ATA stands for Archery Trade Association. Hiring a marketing expert to head up a trade group makes perfect sense. His job is to promote archery and his Board, which consists of industry leaders, will dictate the direction of the organization.
ATA is not a hunting or conservation organization. There goal is to figure out how to sell more stuff. It will be interesting to see if they make any significant changes.
Agree that he sounds like a good candidate for a Bowsite Interview. Bowhunters are just a subset, of the Archery Industry, it would be interesting to hear his personal views regarding the Sport.
Jim, while I agree with you their charter is to expand trade, that line gets blurred often as I've personally witnessed ATA lobbying game departments, and state legislatures to enact game laws. They were instrumental in getting crossbows into state game departments and dismissed, sometimes disparaged State bowhunting organizations that tried to resist crossbows. Yet, they are nowhere to be found when there's yet another incursion into an archery season by firearms. Those issues they defer to State DNRs - which is the reason I am no longer a member of ATA.
They do have good points too, I'm not saying it's all bad. As a purist, I find myself at odds more than I find myself in agreement with them.
Pat, Thanks for the reminder on past unsavory history. My experience with them has been in the past 7 years and the recent leadership hasn't gotten involved in those things that are bad for us as bowhunters, at least not that I'm aware of.
Although the ATA Board changes regularly, there are still some very solid pro bowhunting members on that Board. Some of these members have questioned if pushing crossbows was a good thing for the industry. Many now see the error even if it's too late to do much about it.
Like you, NRA's pushing for crossbows in archery season was very disappointing but also like you, I didn't throw out the baby because of it. We can profoundly disagree with what the NRA did at that time but they are still our best and most effective defense against losing our most basic freedoms. If 2A falls, all the others will follow.
Josh last time I stopped at the local shot they told me the same. They said it’s about 55-45 in favor of crossbows lately.
"If 2A falls, all the others will follow."
True statement.
If he was doing such a great job for the NRA why's he jumping ships? Call me a sceptic.
From Hackbow's post above -
"" Poole "...led the NRA’s merchandise sales business from a small fraternal operation to a large, multichannel revenue center." ""
So he's a proven salesman; bet on it, ATA made him an offer nobody would refuse.
I worked in the industry and attended the AMO/ATA shows for many years. A friend is a past CEO. Pat, your spider sense tingling is warranted.
As for why he would leave the NRA, anyone following the NRA drama the last couple years knows why.
Thanks for the heads up Pat. I do not trust this guy at all. I have gone to battle against the NRA all because of their push for full inclusion of crossbows in archery seasons. I have sent them a letter, that NYB had received from the NRA many years ago on how they would remain neutral, as it did not concern firearms, but their stance has changed. The ATA is pro-crossbow as well, so this does not surprise me.
Former NRA member. I was a member of the NRA for over 30 years until they started pushing for crossbow seasons. Deal breaker for me.
How relevant is ATA is the first question. If they matter the leader could be an asset or liability. If they don’t matter who cares. I just don’t know what clout they wield.
NRA is no friend to bowhunting; prime example is how they lobby the Wi. Republicans, only one that stood against it was a Demo woman, around the Wi. bowhunting to include the x-gun in the season. Once the door was open it is no going back and in this case of Jeff Poole the same will happen to other states. As the saying goes: money talks and BS walks, be very careful with ATA.
$$$ man, doesn't sound good.
And for the record, I have been a Life Member of the NRA from the day I turned 18, which was 36 years ago.
Have been a life member of NRA for many years. Now when I get correspondence from them I reply "get rid of the LaPierre" family and I will send some support. Has not happened yet.
I'm also a "LaPierre" disalushned NRA life member. Current news of ATA's conductor/engineer hiring, solidifies NRA/ATA's ongoing cooperative archery derailment. All Aboard!
"Bowhunters United" is part of ATA. They are 100% pushing that crossbow hunting is bowhunting.
When I was part of North American Bowhunting Alliance as the president of my state's bowhunting organization we had to fight with Jay McAnich, ATA and NRA because they were pushing for full crossbow inclusion as a "neutral" party. Lost me as a NRA member due to their position. Now that I am older and have had to use a crossbow because the state didn't acknowledge other adaptive equipment or temporary challenges, I still haven't changed my position. I will not trust NRA when it comes to bowhunting issues, period.
How relevant is ATA......do they matter?
"How relevant is ATA......do they matter? "
Seems like they can funnel a lot of money into pushing for their agenda - expanded crossbow seasons being the most obvious money-maker for them.
My suggestion regarding weaponry is really quite simple. Stagger the season openings as they currently are with one caveat. At whatever point you choose to "jump in" you have to hunt with that weapon during all the remaining seasons. Would eliminate many bow hunters, almost all crossbow and MZ hunters....they'd wait for regular gun season. Being facetious of course, but I'd love it.
Yes, I have the same concerns but hopefully he will make good decisions.
Looks like we're now into the era of digital read-outs on sights
Meanwhile, crossbows and crossbows and more crossbows
"ATA Show: 2022’s Crossbows Are Faster, Handier, and More Accurate Than Ever
A 505-fps TenPoint. A 1.3-inch axle-to-axle Ravin. And another double-barreled Excalibur. Check out the impressive new crossbows from the 2022 ATA Show. "
It appears to be as much like a rifle as a crossbow, which fits Ravin’s marketing line of “Meet Your New Rifle” to a tee. The R18 utilizes a new VertiCoil Cam System to allow for an incredibly compact crossbow that still provides solid power. With an unheard-of 1.3-inch cocked axle-to-axle height (not length in this case), the bow sends bolts downrange at 350 fps. The limbs expand vertically rather than horizontally, making for an incredibly handy and light (6 pounds) bow.
As someone who has been in this fight for over 2 decades, the technological advances of the crossbow are limitless, as is proven year after year with the latest and greatest available. Speeds in the 500 fps range, rangefinding scopes, less than 5" width when cocked, limbless crossbows, electric auto-cock and un-cock, "sniper" packages, etc... Does any of this remotely resemble archery?
State game agencies embrace the crossbow for the simple fact of selling more licenses. They want the crossover firearms hunter to purchase a crossbow and the ensuing crossbow tag. "Become a 2 season hunter", "Use a platform that you are accustomed to" are 2 of the most common mantras that are thrown around.
Pete Shepley, the man behind PSE, got into the crossbow game years before other archery manufacturers did. He used the phrase "A bow goes twang and a gun goes bang" to try to justify that crossbows were just like any hand held, hand drawn bow. There are now crossbow inserts for rifles, both powder and pneumatic, so where do they fit into his narrative?
The ATA's agenda and the crossbow manufacturers is to push crossbows on non-archers and game agencies. Every year the poster child changes, youth, female, elderly, physically challenged, wounded Veteran, etc... And every year, in state after state that has full inclusion in their archery seasons, the crossbow kill goes up, and the hand held bow kill is stagnant. This is due to what I previously mentioned about crossover hunters. You can have a crossover rate in the high 30% range from firearms hunters to becoming crossbow hunters during the archery season, where full inclusion is allowed.
The NRA pushes crossbows, and the ATA pushes crossbows, the agenda is very clear to me. I know what to expect in the coming year's legislative session.
The ATA is (besides access to grant money) funded by a show which is dying and memberships. If there is no advantage to manufacturers to belong (financially), and there is not, then the ATA will lose its relevance. When ATA was the primary source of information, it had strength, the digital age has made it very difficult to maintain relevance. They fund studies and public money projects, but the industry grows the industry now. The industry realizes that they fund most of the Org's initiatives via FET. It makes zero sense.
It appears to be as much like a rifle as a crossbow, which fits Ravin’s marketing line of “Meet Your New Rifle” to a tee. The R18 utilizes a new VertiCoil Cam System to allow for an incredibly compact crossbow that still provides solid power. With an unheard-of 1.3-inch cocked axle-to-axle height (not length in this case), the bow sends bolts downrange at 350 fps. The limbs expand vertically rather than horizontally, making for an incredibly handy and light (6 pounds) bow.
As a longtime benefactor life member I stopped sending money to the NRA due to the malfeasance and fraud that I feel has been perpetrated for years under lil Wayne and his collaborators. And I sure the hell am not going to trust this guy IMO
Another hireling for the crossbow poison thats killing bowhunting.
Just curious, you got a source for that? Beside 'multiple people'?
A lot of archers ARE 'elitists', and make no bones about it. Like the PBS for instance. Those who do it the hard way feel they have a right.
Good point. Guess I shouldn’t have posted. It was text to me. Probably just a rumor.
I take umbrage at the term "elitist" being thrown around at archers and bowhunters. Also, being a past member of PBS, I still maintain friendships with quite a few members, and not a single one has ever brought an air of arrogance with them. I, though, have been called "elitist", "selfish", and "anti-hunter", all because I have been on the front line for decades, fighting against full crossbow inclusion. Because I do not want a superior implement in the same season as hand drawn and hand held archery tackle, that makes me all of those terms, and BTW, a whole lot more of expletives thrown in as well, plus a few threats of bodily arm. I do not subscribe to the "big tent" theory at all, as archery seasons were established because it was realized that it does take considerably longer to kill a deer with archery tackle than with a firearm. So to dilute the integrity of those archery seasons , with the inclusion a superior implement, does not make it a level playing field at all. You can climb Mount Everest, but what if they installed a lift, to make the ascent easier? You both got to the summit, but.... I will continue to fight, take the barbs, the threats, and check when leave my house at 2AM for a crossbow bolt to fly my way, but elitist, I am not. I am a dedicated bowhunter.
Al, it all comes down to whether you consider 'elitist' to be insulting or not. Some do, while others wear it like a badge of honor. It isn't a good 'fit' for everyone.
PS appreciate and agree with your stance and efforts re crosbows.
AL X 3! I don't mind and call myself an anti -hunter hunter if it means to keep fighting the inclusion of the crossbow in archery/bowhunting seasons.
I'm with Pat. The older I get, the more I trust my gut, and I'm right more than I'd like to be.
I'm not happy to see this. I to am a NRA member. I see this as a mean for the two organizations to work together.
I said that when xbows got in, it would be the beginning of the end of bowhunting the way we know it. (See some of my threads I started on the Pa forum the last couple of months) Heres how I feel, about that beginning of the end comment Imade earlier, we are closing in on the END. Most xbow guys don't have the passion the hand drawn guys have. Most are pick up the xbow right before the season, with no 365 thoughts of bow hunting like we do. I also believe that most bowhunting forums as theres less and less of us, will be gone in 5 to 10 years. It just that every xbow guy I know don't talk, scout, shoot or what every till a few days before the season opens. Like I said we are closer to the end than you think. Ed
Al for President.. Fightin the good fight.
Al, great points. As a longtime officer of NYB, I frequently requested NRA's help to lower bow hunting age in NY (which was eventually obtained after almost 20 years of making it one of our main objectives). NRA not only never helped in that battle, we never even got a response. However they jumped right in to help the crossbows gain a foothold here, again without so much as a response to at least having dialogue concerning this. I too, lifelong member of NRA as they are the only ones protecting our 2nd amendment. But I know their agenda, and my gut agrees with yours Pat. I wish the NRA would reach out to State Bowhunting organizations before lobbying for legislation that go against those trying to preserve and protect bowhunting at the state level, or stay out of it completely.
No hoping or wishing about it the NRA they could care less about bowhunting seasons as they were meant to be. Handwriting is on the wall. Seen the direction they were going years ago and dropped them.
Well said Al. Soon it’ll be crossbows for everyone. I live and do most of my bow hunting here in Pa. Our season has been bastardized to the point of no return with a muzzleloader season, youth rifle season and crossbows with high magnification scopes shooting upwards of 500 ft. a sec. All during a season that was created for a hand drawn weapon.
BC173, I remember when the PGC, voted on it, and by only 1 vote, crossbows were legalized in PA. Our DEC here in NY likes to stir the pot, but does not want any blood on their hands with crossbow expansion. They leave it up to our legislature, so by educating our Senate and Assembly members about the multiple advantages, and endless technical advancements of the modern crossbow, we have been able to maintain the first 4 weeks of archery season for hand drawn and hand held bows.
