NRA guy named as CEO to ATA
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
Pat Lefemine 06-Jan-22
sticksender 06-Jan-22
Grey Ghost 06-Jan-22
DanaC 06-Jan-22
Hackbow 06-Jan-22
Shiloh 06-Jan-22
Fields 06-Jan-22
Mad Trapper 06-Jan-22
JSW 06-Jan-22
elkmtngear 06-Jan-22
Pat Lefemine 06-Jan-22
JSW 06-Jan-22
MA-PAdeerslayer 06-Jan-22
HDE 06-Jan-22
Highlife 06-Jan-22
DanaC 06-Jan-22
Hackbow 06-Jan-22
[email protected] 06-Jan-22
Al Dente Laptop 06-Jan-22
Ollie 06-Jan-22
Bou'bound 06-Jan-22
jjs 06-Jan-22
hawkeye in PA 06-Jan-22
Al Dente Laptop 06-Jan-22
keepemsharp 06-Jan-22
tinecounter 06-Jan-22
[email protected] 06-Jan-22
TonyBear 06-Jan-22
Bou'bound 07-Jan-22
DanaC 07-Jan-22
Cornpone 07-Jan-22
TGbow 07-Jan-22
DanaC 08-Jan-22
DanaC 08-Jan-22
Bou'bound 08-Jan-22
Al Dente Laptop 08-Jan-22
Denali 08-Jan-22
Bou'bound 08-Jan-22
Highlife 08-Jan-22
SteveD 08-Jan-22
PA Rut Hunter 20-Jan-22
DanaC 20-Jan-22
PA Rut Hunter 20-Jan-22
Al Dente Laptop 21-Jan-22
Pat Lefemine 21-Jan-22
Mad Trapper 21-Jan-22
DanaC 21-Jan-22
SteveD 21-Jan-22
BOHNTR 21-Jan-22
KY EyeBow 21-Jan-22
Teeton 21-Jan-22
Empty Freezer 21-Jan-22
Rich 22-Jan-22
SteveD 22-Jan-22
BC173 24-Jan-22
Al Dente Laptop 24-Jan-22
From: Pat Lefemine
06-Jan-22

Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
NRA Exec Jeff Poole heading up ATA
Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
NRA Exec Jeff Poole heading up ATA

Pat Lefemine's Link
ATA just announced they selected a new CEO, former NRA executive Jeff Poole.

Now, I have zero knowledge about this guy. He may be awesome leader, and a hard core bowhunter.

But...I am concerned about an NRA guy at the helm of the Archery Trade Association. NRA has stuck their noses into several issues that, IMO, made archery seasons weaker. I worry about further erosion of bow seasons, increased opportunity for muzzleloaders, crossbows, etc. I hope I'm wrong, but my gut tells me otherwise.

BTW - I am a life member of NRA and completely support their 2A mission. They are vital to our freedom. So this is not a criticism of NRA whatsoever.

Anyone feel the same? Disagree?

From: sticksender
06-Jan-22
Try and get an interview with him to post here.

From: Grey Ghost
06-Jan-22
I have no opinion until I know where he stands on bow hunting. I agree that a Bowsite interview would be a good thing, if he's willing.

Matt

From: DanaC
06-Jan-22
So, what is the ATA pushing hard this year? More open x-bow seasons?

From: Hackbow
06-Jan-22
From ATA website:

"ATA on Crossbows

The ATA believes that crossbows are viable shooting and hunting equipment that provide opportunity for a segment of America’s hunters and recreational shooters. As a result of the Pittman-Robertson Act, crossbows are subject to the Federal excise tax and thus, are considered archery equipment by the U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service and the state wildlife agencies. The ATA leaves the seasons and regulations governing the use of crossbows for hunting to each state wildlife agency. ATA believes that when populations of wildlife, like deer, are overabundant, state agencies should make use of every type of hunting equipment to help control and manage those populations. -June 26, 2008"

Poole's words:

"The archery industry is healthy, vibrant and continues to EVOLVE (emphasis mine). The ATA’s membership and Board is passionate about attracting new archers, expanding opportunities within the industry, and advancing archery and bowhunting."

If I gambled, I'd lay good money down that your gut is speaking the truth, Pat. An interview would be great, but prepare for political double-speak. The ATA won't consider a reduction in crossbow companies paying membership fees and/or not not exhibiting at the show as a success.

Poole "...led the NRA’s merchandise sales business from a small fraternal operation to a large, multichannel revenue center."

The ATA's definition of archery, Poole's own words and his work history suggest that he will cater to the faster, easier, cheaper crowd.

From: Shiloh
06-Jan-22
That crowd is growing at a rapid pace. I was at the archery shop the other day getting my daughters bow set up that she got for Christmas and the guy helping me said sales are 50/50 right now.

From: Fields
06-Jan-22
Wow.. only 50/50?? Id expect 72/25..... only a matter of time.....

From: Mad Trapper
06-Jan-22
My gut tells me that this is not going to end well for those of us who shoot vertical bows.

From: JSW
06-Jan-22
Thanks for the heads up Pat. I say we give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

Remember ATA stands for Archery Trade Association. Hiring a marketing expert to head up a trade group makes perfect sense. His job is to promote archery and his Board, which consists of industry leaders, will dictate the direction of the organization.

ATA is not a hunting or conservation organization. There goal is to figure out how to sell more stuff. It will be interesting to see if they make any significant changes.

From: elkmtngear
06-Jan-22
Agree that he sounds like a good candidate for a Bowsite Interview. Bowhunters are just a subset, of the Archery Industry, it would be interesting to hear his personal views regarding the Sport.

From: Pat Lefemine
06-Jan-22
Jim, while I agree with you their charter is to expand trade, that line gets blurred often as I've personally witnessed ATA lobbying game departments, and state legislatures to enact game laws. They were instrumental in getting crossbows into state game departments and dismissed, sometimes disparaged State bowhunting organizations that tried to resist crossbows. Yet, they are nowhere to be found when there's yet another incursion into an archery season by firearms. Those issues they defer to State DNRs - which is the reason I am no longer a member of ATA.

They do have good points too, I'm not saying it's all bad. As a purist, I find myself at odds more than I find myself in agreement with them.

From: JSW
06-Jan-22
Pat, Thanks for the reminder on past unsavory history. My experience with them has been in the past 7 years and the recent leadership hasn't gotten involved in those things that are bad for us as bowhunters, at least not that I'm aware of.

Although the ATA Board changes regularly, there are still some very solid pro bowhunting members on that Board. Some of these members have questioned if pushing crossbows was a good thing for the industry. Many now see the error even if it's too late to do much about it.

Like you, NRA's pushing for crossbows in archery season was very disappointing but also like you, I didn't throw out the baby because of it. We can profoundly disagree with what the NRA did at that time but they are still our best and most effective defense against losing our most basic freedoms. If 2A falls, all the others will follow.

06-Jan-22
Josh last time I stopped at the local shot they told me the same. They said it’s about 55-45 in favor of crossbows lately.

From: HDE
06-Jan-22
"If 2A falls, all the others will follow."

True statement.

From: Highlife
06-Jan-22
If he was doing such a great job for the NRA why's he jumping ships? Call me a sceptic.

From: DanaC
06-Jan-22
From Hackbow's post above -

"" Poole "...led the NRA’s merchandise sales business from a small fraternal operation to a large, multichannel revenue center." ""

So he's a proven salesman; bet on it, ATA made him an offer nobody would refuse.

From: Hackbow
06-Jan-22
Dana is correct. With his success over 29 years at the NRA, Poole did not go inexpensively to the ATA. They are banking on him to multiply his salary/compensation many times over. While I don't have any problem with that, the result will not be a net positive for vertical bow hunting.

06-Jan-22
I worked in the industry and attended the AMO/ATA shows for many years. A friend is a past CEO. Pat, your spider sense tingling is warranted.

As for why he would leave the NRA, anyone following the NRA drama the last couple years knows why.

06-Jan-22
Thanks for the heads up Pat. I do not trust this guy at all. I have gone to battle against the NRA all because of their push for full inclusion of crossbows in archery seasons. I have sent them a letter, that NYB had received from the NRA many years ago on how they would remain neutral, as it did not concern firearms, but their stance has changed. The ATA is pro-crossbow as well, so this does not surprise me.

From: Ollie
06-Jan-22
Former NRA member. I was a member of the NRA for over 30 years until they started pushing for crossbow seasons. Deal breaker for me.

From: Bou'bound
06-Jan-22
How relevant is ATA is the first question. If they matter the leader could be an asset or liability. If they don’t matter who cares. I just don’t know what clout they wield.

From: jjs
06-Jan-22
NRA is no friend to bowhunting; prime example is how they lobby the Wi. Republicans, only one that stood against it was a Demo woman, around the Wi. bowhunting to include the x-gun in the season. Once the door was open it is no going back and in this case of Jeff Poole the same will happen to other states. As the saying goes: money talks and BS walks, be very careful with ATA.

06-Jan-22
$$$ man, doesn't sound good.

06-Jan-22
And for the record, I have been a Life Member of the NRA from the day I turned 18, which was 36 years ago.

From: keepemsharp
06-Jan-22
Have been a life member of NRA for many years. Now when I get correspondence from them I reply "get rid of the LaPierre" family and I will send some support. Has not happened yet.

From: tinecounter
06-Jan-22
I'm also a "LaPierre" disalushned NRA life member. Current news of ATA's conductor/engineer hiring, solidifies NRA/ATA's ongoing cooperative archery derailment. All Aboard!

06-Jan-22
"Bowhunters United" is part of ATA. They are 100% pushing that crossbow hunting is bowhunting.

From: TonyBear
06-Jan-22
When I was part of North American Bowhunting Alliance as the president of my state's bowhunting organization we had to fight with Jay McAnich, ATA and NRA because they were pushing for full crossbow inclusion as a "neutral" party. Lost me as a NRA member due to their position. Now that I am older and have had to use a crossbow because the state didn't acknowledge other adaptive equipment or temporary challenges, I still haven't changed my position. I will not trust NRA when it comes to bowhunting issues, period.

From: Bou'bound
07-Jan-22
How relevant is ATA......do they matter?

From: DanaC
07-Jan-22
"How relevant is ATA......do they matter? "

Seems like they can funnel a lot of money into pushing for their agenda - expanded crossbow seasons being the most obvious money-maker for them.

From: Cornpone
07-Jan-22
My suggestion regarding weaponry is really quite simple. Stagger the season openings as they currently are with one caveat. At whatever point you choose to "jump in" you have to hunt with that weapon during all the remaining seasons. Would eliminate many bow hunters, almost all crossbow and MZ hunters....they'd wait for regular gun season. Being facetious of course, but I'd love it.

From: TGbow
07-Jan-22
Yes, I have the same concerns but hopefully he will make good decisions.

From: DanaC
08-Jan-22

DanaC's Link
Looks like we're now into the era of digital read-outs on sights

From: DanaC
08-Jan-22

DanaC's Link
Meanwhile, crossbows and crossbows and more crossbows

"ATA Show: 2022’s Crossbows Are Faster, Handier, and More Accurate Than Ever

A 505-fps TenPoint. A 1.3-inch axle-to-axle Ravin. And another double-barreled Excalibur. Check out the impressive new crossbows from the 2022 ATA Show. "

From: Bou'bound
08-Jan-22
It appears to be as much like a rifle as a crossbow, which fits Ravin’s marketing line of “Meet Your New Rifle” to a tee. The R18 utilizes a new VertiCoil Cam System to allow for an incredibly compact crossbow that still provides solid power. With an unheard-of 1.3-inch cocked axle-to-axle height (not length in this case), the bow sends bolts downrange at 350 fps. The limbs expand vertically rather than horizontally, making for an incredibly handy and light (6 pounds) bow.

08-Jan-22
As someone who has been in this fight for over 2 decades, the technological advances of the crossbow are limitless, as is proven year after year with the latest and greatest available. Speeds in the 500 fps range, rangefinding scopes, less than 5" width when cocked, limbless crossbows, electric auto-cock and un-cock, "sniper" packages, etc... Does any of this remotely resemble archery?

State game agencies embrace the crossbow for the simple fact of selling more licenses. They want the crossover firearms hunter to purchase a crossbow and the ensuing crossbow tag. "Become a 2 season hunter", "Use a platform that you are accustomed to" are 2 of the most common mantras that are thrown around.

Pete Shepley, the man behind PSE, got into the crossbow game years before other archery manufacturers did. He used the phrase "A bow goes twang and a gun goes bang" to try to justify that crossbows were just like any hand held, hand drawn bow. There are now crossbow inserts for rifles, both powder and pneumatic, so where do they fit into his narrative?

The ATA's agenda and the crossbow manufacturers is to push crossbows on non-archers and game agencies. Every year the poster child changes, youth, female, elderly, physically challenged, wounded Veteran, etc... And every year, in state after state that has full inclusion in their archery seasons, the crossbow kill goes up, and the hand held bow kill is stagnant. This is due to what I previously mentioned about crossover hunters. You can have a crossover rate in the high 30% range from firearms hunters to becoming crossbow hunters during the archery season, where full inclusion is allowed.

The NRA pushes crossbows, and the ATA pushes crossbows, the agenda is very clear to me. I know what to expect in the coming year's legislative session.

From: Denali
08-Jan-22
The ATA is (besides access to grant money) funded by a show which is dying and memberships. If there is no advantage to manufacturers to belong (financially), and there is not, then the ATA will lose its relevance. When ATA was the primary source of information, it had strength, the digital age has made it very difficult to maintain relevance. They fund studies and public money projects, but the industry grows the industry now. The industry realizes that they fund most of the Org's initiatives via FET. It makes zero sense.

From: Bou'bound
08-Jan-22
It appears to be as much like a rifle as a crossbow, which fits Ravin’s marketing line of “Meet Your New Rifle” to a tee. The R18 utilizes a new VertiCoil Cam System to allow for an incredibly compact crossbow that still provides solid power. With an unheard-of 1.3-inch cocked axle-to-axle height (not length in this case), the bow sends bolts downrange at 350 fps. The limbs expand vertically rather than horizontally, making for an incredibly handy and light (6 pounds) bow.

From: Highlife
08-Jan-22
As a longtime benefactor life member I stopped sending money to the NRA due to the malfeasance and fraud that I feel has been perpetrated for years under lil Wayne and his collaborators. And I sure the hell am not going to trust this guy IMO

From: SteveD
08-Jan-22
Another hireling for the crossbow poison thats killing bowhunting.

20-Jan-22
Edited post.

From: DanaC
20-Jan-22
Just curious, you got a source for that? Beside 'multiple people'?

A lot of archers ARE 'elitists', and make no bones about it. Like the PBS for instance. Those who do it the hard way feel they have a right.

20-Jan-22
Good point. Guess I shouldn’t have posted. It was text to me. Probably just a rumor.

21-Jan-22
I take umbrage at the term "elitist" being thrown around at archers and bowhunters. Also, being a past member of PBS, I still maintain friendships with quite a few members, and not a single one has ever brought an air of arrogance with them. I, though, have been called "elitist", "selfish", and "anti-hunter", all because I have been on the front line for decades, fighting against full crossbow inclusion. Because I do not want a superior implement in the same season as hand drawn and hand held archery tackle, that makes me all of those terms, and BTW, a whole lot more of expletives thrown in as well, plus a few threats of bodily arm. I do not subscribe to the "big tent" theory at all, as archery seasons were established because it was realized that it does take considerably longer to kill a deer with archery tackle than with a firearm. So to dilute the integrity of those archery seasons , with the inclusion a superior implement, does not make it a level playing field at all. You can climb Mount Everest, but what if they installed a lift, to make the ascent easier? You both got to the summit, but.... I will continue to fight, take the barbs, the threats, and check when leave my house at 2AM for a crossbow bolt to fly my way, but elitist, I am not. I am a dedicated bowhunter.

From: Pat Lefemine
21-Jan-22
Well said Al

From: Mad Trapper
21-Jan-22
Al X 2 !

From: DanaC
21-Jan-22
Al, it all comes down to whether you consider 'elitist' to be insulting or not. Some do, while others wear it like a badge of honor. It isn't a good 'fit' for everyone.

PS appreciate and agree with your stance and efforts re crosbows.

From: SteveD
21-Jan-22
AL X 3! I don't mind and call myself an anti -hunter hunter if it means to keep fighting the inclusion of the crossbow in archery/bowhunting seasons.

From: BOHNTR
21-Jan-22
Spot on , Al.

From: KY EyeBow
21-Jan-22
I'm with Pat. The older I get, the more I trust my gut, and I'm right more than I'd like to be.

From: Teeton
21-Jan-22
I'm not happy to see this. I to am a NRA member. I see this as a mean for the two organizations to work together.

I said that when xbows got in, it would be the beginning of the end of bowhunting the way we know it. (See some of my threads I started on the Pa forum the last couple of months) Heres how I feel, about that beginning of the end comment Imade earlier, we are closing in on the END. Most xbow guys don't have the passion the hand drawn guys have. Most are pick up the xbow right before the season, with no 365 thoughts of bow hunting like we do. I also believe that most bowhunting forums as theres less and less of us, will be gone in 5 to 10 years. It just that every xbow guy I know don't talk, scout, shoot or what every till a few days before the season opens. Like I said we are closer to the end than you think. Ed

21-Jan-22
Al for President.. Fightin the good fight.

From: Rich
22-Jan-22
Al, great points. As a longtime officer of NYB, I frequently requested NRA's help to lower bow hunting age in NY (which was eventually obtained after almost 20 years of making it one of our main objectives). NRA not only never helped in that battle, we never even got a response. However they jumped right in to help the crossbows gain a foothold here, again without so much as a response to at least having dialogue concerning this. I too, lifelong member of NRA as they are the only ones protecting our 2nd amendment. But I know their agenda, and my gut agrees with yours Pat. I wish the NRA would reach out to State Bowhunting organizations before lobbying for legislation that go against those trying to preserve and protect bowhunting at the state level, or stay out of it completely.

From: SteveD
22-Jan-22
No hoping or wishing about it the NRA they could care less about bowhunting seasons as they were meant to be. Handwriting is on the wall. Seen the direction they were going years ago and dropped them.

From: BC173
24-Jan-22
Well said Al. Soon it’ll be crossbows for everyone. I live and do most of my bow hunting here in Pa. Our season has been bastardized to the point of no return with a muzzleloader season, youth rifle season and crossbows with high magnification scopes shooting upwards of 500 ft. a sec. All during a season that was created for a hand drawn weapon.

24-Jan-22
BC173, I remember when the PGC, voted on it, and by only 1 vote, crossbows were legalized in PA. Our DEC here in NY likes to stir the pot, but does not want any blood on their hands with crossbow expansion. They leave it up to our legislature, so by educating our Senate and Assembly members about the multiple advantages, and endless technical advancements of the modern crossbow, we have been able to maintain the first 4 weeks of archery season for hand drawn and hand held bows.

  • Sitka Gear