Push to end lion, bear and bobcat huntin
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
Treeline 08-Jan-22
Jaquomo 08-Jan-22
Bou'bound 08-Jan-22
Screwball 08-Jan-22
AZ8 08-Jan-22
rattling_junkie 08-Jan-22
SBH 08-Jan-22
tr 08-Jan-22
Jaquomo 08-Jan-22
Kurt 08-Jan-22
[email protected] 08-Jan-22
drycreek 08-Jan-22
Rocky D 08-Jan-22
Jaquomo 08-Jan-22
Screwball 08-Jan-22
Missouribreaks 08-Jan-22
rattling_junkie 08-Jan-22
Scoot 08-Jan-22
Jaquomo 08-Jan-22
Jaquomo 08-Jan-22
Ambush 08-Jan-22
duvall 08-Jan-22
AZ8 08-Jan-22
Screwball 08-Jan-22
Screwball 08-Jan-22
Jaquomo 08-Jan-22
Screwball 08-Jan-22
Screwball 08-Jan-22
Cazador 09-Jan-22
Jaquomo 09-Jan-22
Scar Finga 10-Jan-22
Missouribreaks 10-Jan-22
AZ8 10-Jan-22
Scar Finga 10-Jan-22
Treeline 11-Jan-22
Treeline 11-Jan-22
Scar Finga 11-Jan-22
Two dogs mobile 11-Jan-22
Treeline 11-Jan-22
Jaquomo 11-Jan-22
stykzz 11-Jan-22
Scar Finga 12-Jan-22
From: Treeline
08-Jan-22

Treeline's embedded Photo
Treeline's embedded Photo
Just got word that there is a move afoot by anti-hunters sending a lot of comments the AZG&F to end bear, lion, and bobcat hunting.

The department has said that they have not had any comments from hunters in support of hunting these species.

If hunters want to keep this off the ballot, we need to send comments to AZG&F before January 30th by going to their home page.

Sounds like this was flying under the radar. Anyone that has connections to their own state game and fish departments may want to check if the anti hunters are doing this kind of thing there!!!

From: Jaquomo
08-Jan-22
Trophy hunting again...... Since AZ is a referendum state, it won't matter what the AZGF does. They will attempt to get enough signatures to put it to a vote in November. Same playbook as CO, probably the same groups behind it, funded by money from CA and East Coast.

But as some of the Bowsite tough guys tell us, we can FIGHT HARD, band together, and put these antis in their place. Never surrender. Cold, dead hands and all that.

From: Bou'bound
08-Jan-22
Hunting is at risk of becoming a graveyard and a lot of delusional hunters are whistling past it

From: Screwball
08-Jan-22
I would be sure to notify all the ranchers, farmers, etc as well in AZ.

From: AZ8
08-Jan-22
Thanks for all the help everyone! The more people that see this, the better. Hunter apathy is real.

email: [email protected]

08-Jan-22
Email sent

From: SBH
08-Jan-22
I often wondered why anyones comments have anything to do with proper management? So a bunch of ignorants can make a comment and change a season? So crazy. Email sent. Thanks for the heads up.

From: tr
08-Jan-22
email sent

From: Jaquomo
08-Jan-22
Send the emails as a show of support, but it won't matter. Even if the AZGF votes unanimnously against the request, the people will still likely vote on it in November.

The CO DOW/CPW Commission voted overwhelmingly against the requests to ban most bear hunting, trapping, wolf dumping, and now lion and bobcat hunting. We hunters spoke at the meetings, wrote emails, wrote letters, spoke publicly, wrote op-eds in the big newspapers, held rallies, and had the Commissioners totally supporting us. Guess what happened? And I have no doubt we will lose lion and bobcat hunting in either 2022 or 2024.

ARAs have been very open about their use of the referendum process to control hunting. They have huge financial resources from outside groups. They have campaign teams of seasoned experts that they can helicopter in to advise and organize the volunteers on the ground. They have subject-matter experts with PhDs for credibility. They have a budget to hire signature gatherers. We have....?

The only way to end this is for legislatures to pass a law exempting hunting and wildlife from the referendum process. Otherwise our future will be dictated by the general public, who will decide when, what, and how we hunt.

From: Kurt
08-Jan-22
While Coues deer hunting 3 nights ago I passed on arrowing a nice Tom Bobcat. Many draws/washes have cougar tracts in the sand. No shortage of cats in AZ, if anything more sign than I have ever seen….first hunted down here 42 years ago.

08-Jan-22
The Wolf issue here in Colorado was just the tip of the iceberg. Defenders of Wildlife and others will be packing the meetings and sending comments to end lion and bear hunting also in Colorado in the very near future. They already have raised a few million dollars for this agenda. Once we lost spring bear hunting, then then Ballot Initiative 114 was voted in, the FLOOD GATES HAVE OPEN, for more restrictions/eliminations by these organization that are very will funded and organized is their goal. They will overwhelm the CPW by demanding a set at the table. Boulder Colorado is the hot spot for this organizations, per word on the street.

From: drycreek
08-Jan-22
Liberals, can’t stand for anybody to enjoy themselves.

Unless your an illegal alien, a child molester, a looter, a smash and grabber, a Dem politician……..the list goes on and on.

From: Rocky D
08-Jan-22
If we cannot unite then the fight is a formality.

We as as a group are a special kind of stupid!

From: Jaquomo
08-Jan-22
Hunters who don't hunt mountain lions or bobcats will sit on the sidelines and watch. Not so much about uniting, as apathy. But even if all hunters united behind a cause, our relative numbers are so small that we are just a blip on the voting electoral screen.

When bowhunting finally gets to a vote in a liberal state and is outlawed, hopefully that will be a nationwide wakeup call.

From: Screwball
08-Jan-22
When discussions of fighting back have been addressed on here previously many do not have the stomach for it. Look back the giraffe picture posts etc. What are you willing to do to win this? Most do not or or not willing put up and go to war that we are losing. We want to hide, be the fringe, and die a slow death rather than go down fighting. I would rather fight and lost than just lose but we will lose due to cowardice and lack of organized funding. Go on the attack with the facts and message.

08-Jan-22
So many hunters think they have a " constitutional right to hunt". They do not, voters will decide if, what, when and where we may hunt.

08-Jan-22
Jaquomo, what do suggest us bowhunters do? I keep reading you telling us there is nothing we can do, but once bowhunting becomes illegal it will be awake up call for the whole country. Help me understand your position. There very well might be nothing we can do, but seems odd that the antis can do something but bowhunters cannot? Those Colorado Wildlife videos are great. These are the types of ads hunting needs to be broadcasted all over social media.

From: Scoot
08-Jan-22
Mbreaks, not sure I've ever agreed with one of your posts as much as your last one. That is spot on! I wish more people got that.

From: Jaquomo
08-Jan-22
Screwball, here in CO we have gone on the attack with facts, but the CPW is not allowed to speak out once it becomes a ballot initiative. As we've learned the hard way, urban voters vote with emotion. The media and the antis control the narrative and have the money.

Please enlighten us on how you would "fight" if you were in CO or AZ. Outline a winning strategy. What is your "winning message"? What facts can you put in front of soccer moms and golf dads and mall chicks to show why we should still be able to kill cute cats for fun and to sell fur when the other side has a multimillion dollar budget to flood the airwaves and viral social media with their facts, their photos of orphaned bobcat kittens, of mother lions licking and playing with their kittens?

Where will our organized funding come from? No big organizations have been willing to step up before with the millions needed.

Accusing hunters on the front lines of campaigns of "cowardice" when you have no frickin' idea of the dynamics shows an intellectual bankruptcy. Please tell us about the election campaigns on hunting issues you have been directly involved with.

From: Jaquomo
08-Jan-22
Rattling Junkie, those ads are great. Just saw one a bit ago on the Broncos-Chiefs telecast. Here's the problem, distilled: The large majority of voters agree with hunting so long as it is for food, and done humanely. The majority of voters are against hunting when it is not primarily for food, or done inhumanely.

There will never be an election to ban deer hunting. But bowhunting for deer? The EVP of HSUS told me personally that a bowhunting election is coming in a deep blue state and they already have all the gory, stomach turning material they need for ads from our own videos. He was laughing when he told me this. I have posted that many times but some don't get it.

From: Ambush
08-Jan-22
When our newly elected premier (top guy) of BC took office, he killed the grizzly hunt and said "it is no longer socially acceptable". End of story, end of science. The urbanites have spoken.

From: duvall
08-Jan-22
Jaquomo I dont think you understood what he was asking...if you go back and read what you wrote it's kinda contradicting...you say contact to show support but in the end it won't matter...you said that hunters stood up in meetings and had support from others but in the end it doesn't matter...so it's almost like your saying doesn't matter what we do, they win...those of us who aren't there would like to know what we can do. We can't be there in person but is there something we can do? From what you have said emails and phone calls don't work

From: AZ8
08-Jan-22

AZ8's Link
501(c)3 organizations can’t help us. Go to 24:20 in Randy’s video to understand the politics of our fight.

From: Screwball
08-Jan-22
Jaq for those who are out there and willing to fight I commend you. Those who are not willing to is where I am so frustrated. We are losing and not willing to show who we are. We have millionaire and billionaire hunters and average hunters that are not willing to put out what needs to be financially speaking. Look at what our enemy is doing to us. The ads by the WWF, PETA, ASPCA, etc. They use movie stars, and such. Why not Brett Farve, Kurt Russel, Bo Jackson, and others. I realize I am a small town lower middle income person, but WE need to go on the offensive as you state. When I started teaching 85% of my students farmed, logged, and understood animal husbandry, reusable resources, and death, now less than 5 %. 2.8 million people in Chicago, that is who sees the poor puppy or cat, or polar bear, and send $5.00 checks to stop evil hunting, trapping, farming, fishing, or meat consumption. All renewable usable resources. Where are our counter Ad's, stories, movie parts, etc. Jaquomo not those that battling, fighting, I agree, with you. But I want to go on the offensive and every time I have posted this plan I get attacked. Showing pictures of our harvests or shot video, or trap catches are to offensive. We need become activists ourselves. My attack in my post is at those that think hiding in the shadows is the answer, we will lose, we are losing. Kids today even my own students do not understand that polar bear populations are actually increasing and when shown the stats are shocked. Works well for explaining the untruthfulness of media in general. Yes I am tired of laying back and losing, I believe in attacking, the best defense is good offense. Chocolate milk is not from brown cows, but yes go to the WI fairs and some kids asks it, meat is farm animals not the store, wearing fur is not evil. Fight damn it fight!

From: Screwball
08-Jan-22
I will add, a good advertising team can produce such productions as we need. Look at what hunting video production teams can do. We need to unite, farmers, ranchers, hunters, trappers, fisherman. We are all under attack. I do four of these and as long as we cannot create a common front to fight for our way of life I stand by that we will lose.

From: Jaquomo
08-Jan-22
Screwball, we agree on virtually everything. The CO Hug a Hunter ads are very well done and effective. They flood the network TV shows from Denver feeds.

The biggest challenge is that strong emotions win elections every single time. All the facts in the world shown on a TV scroll with Samuel L. Jackson narrating, on every channel, won't counter one photo of starved bobcat kittens because their mother was cruelly killed by a hunter.

Duvall, what I meant was that the Commission can vote unanimously in our favor every time, as they have on every wildlife issue like this from outside groups, and it doesn't matter because the activists call in the money machine, hire signature gatherers, run the ads, being out their PhDs and experts with the studies, some of whom are former state DNR officials, put it to a vote. Its way too easy to put initiatives on the ballot.

I won't speak for any other state, but for the blue states in the West, we are pretty much screwed. All we can do is educate everyone in our sphere, portray a positive image, share game meat, explain why we hunt, and hope they vote our way.

5% of CO residents hunt, and many of those are below voting age. So, say 250,000 potential voting hunters. If every one of them influenced 10 people to vote our way we would control elections. Instead, many don't vote and those that do sometimes go the other way.

I'm afraid, in deep blue states, that we have crossed the tipping point for some kinds of hunting.

From: Screwball
08-Jan-22
Jaquamo, I throw out the challenge to all on here to come up with the idea of an advertisement campaign that tugs at the heart strings of those not on either side, most of Ameria. Our enemy's will resort to any depths, even think of Unicef ads. What can we put together that tugs at the heart strings of people and makes us the good guys as you say those are well done. But kike PETA we need buzz, Super Bowl Ad run etc. Attack them for their faults like how little money they spend on animals but pay their CEO's. I am willing to go low to win. LOL

From: Screwball
08-Jan-22
Jaquamo, I throw out the challenge to all on here to come up with the idea of an advertisement campaign that tugs at the heart strings of those not on either side, most of Ameria. Our enemy's will resort to any depths, even think of Unicef ads. What can we put together that tugs at the heart strings of people and makes us the good guys as you say those are well done. But kike PETA we need buzz, Super Bowl Ad run etc. Attack them for their faults like how little money they spend on animals but pay their CEO's. I am willing to go low to win. LOL

From: Cazador
09-Jan-22

Cazador's Link
If any of you recall, the same thing was on the books for 2018 right here on BS, and several groups from AZ and SCI if I recall stopped it

Goes to show you they’re persistent and until wildlife management, is in the hands of voters, we will continue to see this. There needs to be special language passed doe sure

Those better with the shitty BS search can surely find the thread.

From: Jaquomo
09-Jan-22

Jaquomo's Link

From: Scar Finga
10-Jan-22
So, I am not sure if anyone else got a response from Game & Fish, but I just heard back from them, and they have NO INTENTION of changing nor doing away with any of these hunts!

They did say that there are orgs. out there trying to get it passed, so perhaps it will be by vote... God I hope not!

10-Jan-22
Many hunters voted right alongside PETA, the ASPCA, Friends of Animals, and HSUS in the last presidential election. Were any of you one of them? Start with the basics.

From: AZ8
10-Jan-22
Scar Finga, that’s all they can say really. We’re simply outnumbered. They know, as well as everyone else does, that if this gets on the ballot, it was pass and that’ll be it for Arizona. We can try and educate, but it’s an uphill battle.

237,645. That’s the number. That’s all that’s needed here in Arizona to get it on the ballot. 237,645 signatures. Arizona’s population? 7.3 million. Registered voters? 4.3 million. :(

From: Scar Finga
10-Jan-22
AZ8, I know man, I was just curious what the response would be! I have said for many years we are a dying breed!

From: Treeline
11-Jan-22
It is an open comment period for any issues with AG&F.

The anti's are piling a ton against lion, bobcat and bear hunting while hunters were not involved and it looked like hunters had no care about it.

It is not coming up to vote yet. This is a way to help head it off and shut it down.

Please just comment in favor of lion, bobcat and bear hunting!

Thank you!

From: Treeline
11-Jan-22
The email for comments is:

[email protected]

From: Scar Finga
11-Jan-22
Yeah, we need a lot more people to reach out to Game and Fish on this!!

11-Jan-22

From: Treeline
11-Jan-22
Even something simple to just say that you support continued sustainable management of predators by hunters through AG&F rather than the loss of this tool that brings in revenue and minimizes resources and cost to AG&F.

From: Jaquomo
11-Jan-22
So for those in AZ, assuming the AZGF&D shoots this down, as expected, what are the chances of it passing in an election, given the political climate there?

From: stykzz
11-Jan-22
Email sent

From: Scar Finga
12-Jan-22
Jac,

Right now, I would probably guess it would pass. Sad but true!

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