If you had to sell your career to someone who is in their early 20's and is debating what field to go in to, what would your sales pitch be? Whether it be blue collar, white collar, any collar, looking back on your career, would you recommend it to someone who loves the outdoors? Does X career provide enough time off to satisfy your outdoor bug? How did you get into X field, and is it an easy field to get into?
Or the exact opposite, did you go into a field and realize it provided very little time or money to accomplish any outdoor goals?
Not to make it an "all about me" thread, but some back story, I just turned 23, just got out of the military in January and am currently working in Congress for my US Rep (Gross, I know, I'm leaving as fast as I can). Going back to MO in May and am tentatively going back to school to finish my degree this fall. I don't rate the GI Bill (vaccine mandate discharge) but have a scholarship that covers full tuition, so cost of school isn't a factor, but I'm not opposed to diving into a trade instead, especially with the higher ed climate of today.
It seems like a lot of people on here have figured out the formula of a work-hunt-life balance which is something I want to figure out. I know there are threads on here like this one already, but figured I'd start another one to get new perspectives if we have any recent joins on the site that missed the previous thread(s)
I would not sell _my_ 'career.' Too many dead ends, too much got off-shored.
I'd encourage any young person to learn a trade that is portable and in demand. Electrician, plumber, mechanic, something needed everywhere there are people and houses and trucks and cars.
Nick, yes. Don't want to derail the thread and make it about the vaccine discharges but long story short me and 18 others out of the 90ish in my company got the boot. "General under honorable conditions" discharge categorized under "medically unfit for service". *Might* be able to upgrade it through the VA and rate partial GI Bill after a few months, but not getting my hopes up. Other guys I know in other units are still pending discharge, I was in a very small unit here in DC so our process was faster than others. I was discharged January 27th after 3ish years of service and was among the first 1,000 people to get the DD214 for the discharge, last I heard there were 78k still holding the line on not getting it. Will gladly discuss it in private messages for anyone wanting more info, just don't want this thread to go down that rabbit hole, haha.
Dana, that's definitely a direction I'm looking. Seems like a lot of those in-demand trades have a lot of room for working as much (or as little, during the fall) as you want. My cousin was a traveling welder and is now going into commercial diving, and he definitely isn't hurting for money or time off.
I would also recommend the trades. As an engineer with BS and MS degrees and over 30 years of experience, there was a much better way to get ahead and have time and money to do far more of what I wanted. My path has not been very conducive to my dreams. If I had it to do over, I would have gone into plumbing, HV-AC, or even landscaping and worked up to own my own company. The trick seems to be that, no matter what you do, to really get ahead you need to be your own boss…
Personally, I like being self employed. You never know if you'll have any income, but I can guarantee you will never be laid off. If you need vacation, take it.
I'm in the real estate business, doing a residential development right now. You can become a licensed broker in a few short weeks.
Corporate sales-account management. Worked from home or hunting/fishing camps wherever I had cell service. Was able to stretch 3 weeks vacation into 60+ days of hunting every year. Could live anywhere I wanted- in the CO mountains on a trout stream. Unlimited expense account that allowed me to live like a rock star when traveling, take clients hunting and fishing, add on extra days to business trips to hunt and fish on my own in cool places. Made way more money than I deserved. Didn't exact a physical toll on my body. Yes, it was stressful at times, but any career worth it's salt requires management of stress. I highly recommend the path I took.
My lifelong best friend took the other fork when it was offered to us. Became a professional hunter managing a couple big hunt booking/consulting agencies. He got to hunt all over the world, didn't make a lot of money, became jaded with the whole hunting industry. When something is a job, it sometimes loses its appeal.
Hackbow, thank you! Starting a land-clearing business is definitely high on my list, before the Marine Corps I farmed and cleared land for my great uncle, and am definitely gonna look into doing that on a way larger scale if I can get my hands on some bigger equipment than the skidsteer and clipper I used a couple years ago. Something I'm definitely going to research more about.
I think so much of it depends on your personality. Some people really need the security of a university/college education then employment with a big company, government job and a pension. Others can wing it, follow their passion and still sleep at night.
Also a skilled trade forces you to trade hours of your life for dollars, if you aren’t physically working you aren’t making money. There is no passive income to it. That is unless you turn it into a business and have employees but then the question becomes what’s the best business to have and are you cut out to run a business regardless of what it is?
Boggs, last year I was watching a *heavy* skidsteer with a forest mulching head operate. Awesome tools but not cheap. Worked over some acreage we'd had logged a few years prior.
Wow have times changed. When I was in the Army during the 80's, and the the Coast Guard during the 90's, refusing medical treatment was NOT an option. Anyhow, to answer you question, go with a trade. You have seen the meme, Johnny is 80k in debt with student loans, and thinks people without a college degree are idiots. Billy makes $80K a year as a lineman, and has no student loans. This it Billy turning off Johnny's power because Johnny can't pay his electric bill.
If I were starting over, I'd take a hard look at being a surveyor. Is that career going to be around much longer though? Will gps and simple phone apps replace the surveying career?
For me, I am a software engineer. BS/MS in Computer Science. Do I love it? No. But I don't mind getting up and doing it. Now coming up on 36 years, I'm about to hang it up for a life of leisure.
Benefits: Money/benefits are great, jobs are easy to find. Technology is ALWAYS changing so you are constantly learning and adapting. Right now I get 5 weeks vacation a year, can accumulate up to 7 weeks as carry over (that part really varies company to company and with seniority). Time has always been flexible to let me sneak out a couple hours here and there to watch kids events. Company I am at now I tele-work and we have an 80 hour, two week cycle, where we are encouraged to NOT work longer due to how government contracts are structured.
Retirement planning has always been very good, hence retirement before 60. In this field you can also work for yourself if you want to go that route. With growing technology many companies also let you live whereever. You do need a logical mind and be comfortable chained to a computer all the time. As my career grew, my personal role evolved from "code grunt" as a college hire, to now running very large development projects and staff. I almost never actually write code anymore. It's also not a physical job, so it doesn't wear out your body.
I'm also an advocate of being self-employed. Not because it allows more free time to enjoy the outdoors, however. Being your own boss can often be more demanding on your time then being an employee. I just think the financial upside of having your own business is greater, which eventually will provide you the resources to enjoy your hobbies later in life.
That said, I have a few younger buddies who have become fire-fighters. They typically work one 24 hour shift every 3 days, or ten 24-hour shifts every month. They can also trade shifts with other fire-fighters to free up more off days in a row. My buddies don't make huge salaries, but they seem to always find time to enjoy the outdoors.
As an Outfitter/Guide I often hear that I have the dream job and for me I love it but it isn’t for everyone. I do get to spend 5 months of the year guiding and hunting in the great outdoors but I couldn’t afford to buy my own hunts, at least not on a yearly basis. I guide hunters who can afford 3 or 4 fully guided hunts every year, some of them are very expensive. And some have a job they love, others not so much.
I would say the hunters I guide who have really done the best are the ones who have built up a company big enough for them to get away, they can hire good people to replace themselves. And the company runs without them being there, some guys can be gone for a week or more and not even have to check texts or emails.
As former military I cant fathom a service member being okay with taking dozens of vaccines they dont know squat about but then refusing the covid shot. There is no logical reasoning there.
That being said, trades. There will never be less roofs, less pipes, less homes etc. There will always be more. And robots will never be able to do those jobs. Your job security us guaranteed.
Trades are great if you work your way into owning your own company. But I know way too many guys who worked the trades, and as they got older their bodies broke down. Fingers, hands, elbows, shoulders, knees, back. So think beyond just doing the work for a wage.
Like I said, I don't want to derail the thread. To respond and not dive down the vaccine safety/politicization rabbit hole (where there's a wealth of questions and concerns that I subscribe to), I enlisted to fight for freedom, and I saw that the best way for me to do so was to prove a point and stand up against the mandates that were threatening the jobs and livelihoods of many of my friends and family members that worked at large companies and in healthcare.
In my opinion, losing the GI Bill was a small price to pay in order to stand against the restrictions of their religious and medical freedom. The military must set an example and sacrifice personal gain for the freedom of others, and I'm very proud of the example 79,000 of us set for others going through the same thing. I hope the unvaxxed military numbers played into SCOTUS' decision to block the OSHA mandate, and luckily the religious exemptions for healthcare workers have been handed out liberally. Ya gotta stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
NOW, I would request that the covid vaccine comments end there. The only reason I included that fact was to add that I do not have the GI Bill, as that is a factor in many people's choice as to pursue "higher education" following the military.
Like I said, I'll discuss it all day long in PM's, but let's allow a career choice thread to remain a career choice thread.
I work in the medical field and while it has been a good career I wouldn't recommend it. I like helping to take care of people but it's a 24/7 job, someone always has to be there and this is true for doctors on down to the guy picking up trash. My wife is a teacher and if I had to do it over again I'd go that route. The pay isn't great, although the hourly rate is pretty good, but the hours and time off are hard to beat. Plus you are usually covered under a pension. I think the trades are a great option, but will most likely wear on your body.
I believe that owning your own business is a great thing and is the quickest way to become wealthy. But being an owner does have it's own downside because you are tied to the business, whatever it is, and it's very hard to truly get away from it. My best friend is an owner and has done very well financially but is pretty miserable most of the time.
Whatever you choose, always save 15% of your pay into a retirement account and you will be fine. Good luck!
United Parcel Service great pay good benefit's start young and you can retire in your early 50's don't need college to get in the door. Just retired in September and loving it.
Being self employed is not for everyone. Make sure that's your scene before you head down that path. Nothing wrong with working for someone for a bit to get free training. I have tried to help a few different guys start their own thing and they have all failed. They weren't cut out for it. Great guys, great workers, not good at being self employed.
Good advice above regarding living within your means, saving and investing. I think that's more important than a large income. If you can start investing at 23.....you'll be amazed at what you have when you're 50.
Home inspection or appraisal might be worth a look. Some physical but not beating you up. My nephew started inspections as a side gig with zero experience. It's at the point he is debating leaving a really good job to commit full time.
I've done all sorts if stuff. Chased some dream jobs in the outdoor industry that didn't pan out but also had some great experiences. Not great for stability but I think I could be dropped off anywhere with nothing and be making a decent living pretty quickly after having to switch gears too many times.
Easy to look back and say that sticking to one thing would have been easier and likely better financially but my winding path also led me to my amazing wife and kids so I wouldn't change it.
Went into a start-up ag business with a friend from scratch a few years ago and it's doing great. Ag isn't always the best for time off so still working on improving that.
One word: cybersecurity. Many college Seniors getting 100k offers before they even graduate. All demand, no supply. Big firms paying huge $$ for specialized cyber positions in demand like cloud security engineers, pentesters, threat intelligence analyst, and more.
Almost all companies allow you to work from home.
So big $ paid and you can work from your farm then climb into a tree stand at the end of the day.
I’m a firm believer in doing something that allows you to afford your passion, both in compensation and time. But I never thought it’s a good idea to try to make a living directly off your passion. Like guys that get into the hunting business because they love hunting. It sounds much better in theory than in reality.
And, when I say "trade" avoid labor unions like a second plague. That's when you wake up one day and realize you're old at 45 and too hobbled up to start your own business...
Adding to other comments about learning a trade, one of the best trades I learned, before my 20th birthday, was how to frame houses. It gave me a basic knowledge of every other trade that's involved in home building. It led to a relatively easy transition into construction supervision, then into my own general contracting business, and eventually into spec building my own custom homes, which was where the best money, and free time, was at for me. I also benefitted from an extremely hot real-estate market during my peak earning years. It allowed me to save, invest, and retire comfortably at 45.
My architecture degree opened a lot of doors along the way, too. But I got my degree when a hard working student could pay for his own education, without accumulating a huge student loan debt, or siphoning off of his parent's savings. Sadly, that's not doable these days.
I'll also add, it never hurts to find a good women (or soul-mate) who has a successful career of their own, and understands your passion for the outdoors.
I can't hire them fast enough, CS schools have it as a major now, it's gold. It's only getting bigger today with the cyber attack threats, then add the whole cyber money angle, smarter/faster computers (neural nets and quantum computers will render every cyber defense useless eventually). If you are technically/math inclined do it. I am PERSONALLY not a fan of self-employed, for me that means SW contracting, it can be GREAT, but the constant trying to get work while you get going, not my thing.
Peco- this is the NEW Armed Forces........................................where they will pay for your sex change and Generals can question the orders they get from the Comander-n-Chief! : (
I would NOT recommend teaching as a career choice. My mom is a retired educator and my wife has been a substitute teacher for years. THis will likely be her last as she can no longer put up with the BS from both the students and the school district! Kids just have no respect for authority anymore and the districts are too afraid of the kids/parents to stand behind the teachers. IT's a no win situation.
Self employed is nice. I work for my family company, we’ve been at it 46 years this month. My grandfather started it and now my uncle runs it. We do plumbing and heating. Definitely a demand for the trade for sure. In MASS the average age for a plumber is 56 years old!!! Not enough young blood coming in. We do commercial residential and industrial. And all home heating. No AC. It’s nice because there’s always work. Or something to keep busy if there isn’t. Only bad thing is, sometimes during hunting season it ends up being working season due to the cold and heat issues. But it pays the bills and allows us to have some toys and extras that we can enjoy when we have the time. Never a bad thing to have to much work. It sucks sometimes but I’d rather miss a weekend of hunting than be struggling to find work and pay the mortgage and truck payments.
Thank you for your service. One thing I'd add is no matter what you do, be more then one dimensional. I see many people get into a career (whether it's intentional or just fell into that field) and then if something happens to that job down the road they aren't very marketable. I wholeheartedly agree with some of the comments from others on here, work for yourself if at all possible. I've got a Real Estate license, CDL license and I own some real estate (rental props and land)..... if something happens in one field I can always jump into something else. Do yourself the biggest favor you ever could and buy some rental properties while you are young. You sound like a motivated young man! Educate yourself as much as possible on whatever you decide to go into, talk to as many people as you can who already are doing it and never stop asking questions. Learn from somebody else's mistakes so you don't have to go thru it yourself because mistakes are costly.
Pick a career that interests you and offers the resources (time and money) to allow you to live a lifestyle you wish to live. Lots of options out there to make a great living and freedom to hunt. Originally the plan was to be a guide however I was talked out of it by those that had experience in the outdoor industry and knew with the amount of hunting I prefer it wouldn't give the financial stability for some hunts nor the time to hunt when I wished. I ultimately went to college for Construction Science and am in the management side of commercial construction, which has served me well in both time and money to hunt. Construction has always been of interest to me though and I enjoy doing the work.
Long story short choose a path you'll enjoy otherwise you may not stick with it or excel at it enough to give you the lifestyle you want.
In addition to your main career do your best to invest in real estate, stocks, or something else that will supply additional income. It will serve you well.
I’ve been a pipe fitter/orbital welder, supporting the semi- conductor and life sciences industry for over 20 years. It’s a specialty niche and it’s tough to find people. I can currently go anywhere in the US and get hired at a minimum of $30 per hour plus beni’s. You can make more if you join the union, but you sacrifice your individual work ethic in order to please the union money grabbers. I’m currently thinking about setting up a portable clean room in my garage and starting my own thing. I’d also like to teach some young folks how it’s done…we need new blood badly.
“What does this have to do with bow hunting? This entire website needs to get back on track.” Every bow hunting topic has been beat to death, many times over. OK then, let's talk about broadheads some more.
SDHNTR, the point of this thread was to inform young hunters in general (I tried to not make this a situation-specific thread) about careers that provide the free time and financial freedom in order to bow hunt as much as possible. In my opinion this is pretty on track for the true meaning of this forum, which is to inform hunters about opportunities and have community-based discussion about it.
I'm sure there are other young college-aged people in the bowhunting community who are also wondering what career fields and job opportunities provide you all with the impressive hunting opportunities you display on this site.
Don’t get involved in the railroad industry. You have to beg and be dishonest to get your time off and when your thier they own you, and tell you that daily. 30 years in now it has served my family well financially but that is where it ends.
I tell my kids- chase time not money. It’s the easiest economy ever to make cash you just need a little ambition, which is greatly lacking in society. Find ways to make people and systems work for you. Do all the things you want to do when your young!!!!!! As you get older, things don’t always work out so well and waiting for retirement is crazy. Make your life now and you will have no regrets.
PECO2 "If I were starting over, I'd take a hard look at being a surveyor. Is that career going to be around much longer though? Will gps and simple phone apps replace the surveying career?"
I'm a licensed surveyor in Oklahoma and Kansas getting close to the end of my career and would say it will be around as long as people argue about their boundary lines, new tracts of land are being created and things are being built. Boots on the ground will always be needed in this field and until a phone app can swing a hammer, dig with a shovel, chisel with a rock bar and look at all the evidence to determine a boundary line a licensed surveyor will be needed.
I am seeing the need for a licensed surveyor is rising because most are dying/retiring and there's not many younger guys getting into this profession. Therefore, it has a great financial future. It hasn't been bad to me but supply/demand makes it look good (financially) in near future. Today's surveyor has to be way more tech capable than when I started. Fortunately I evolved with the tech and have enjoyed it. The biggest problem that I've had in trying to hire new guys is finding those who know how to sweat and swing a hammer as well as running the tech whether it be a gps unit, robot or the civil3d and cad software on the computer back in the office. That combination is hard to find. If you are good at techy stuff, math, enjoy research (history and law) and don't mind the heat/cold, ticks, snakes, poison ivy, and some days of hard labor, etc. then you might check it out.
Pros in no particular order: I've got 1000's of acres of land that I can hunt, fish and play on that is in some way related to a survey project that I've had in the past...shed hunting while working...flexible hours as the boss/owner which means a lot more hunting than a typical 8-5 job...physical but not too physical which allows longevity...combination of working outside/inside as weather dictates...etc. I could go on and on but lunch is over and I have a plat to get finished. Good luck!
This is going to be a longer post. So you understand the transitions from labor jobs, to a college degree jobs, back to sweating it out doing the labor thing.
I grew up driving nails. Working for all sorts of people. Because work was scarce and very dependent on weather. It didn’t take long before I realized I wouldn’t be doing that as an employee.
So, I went to college, got a degree in forestry resource management. I did that for a good while as a W2 employee. Moved all around. I made so little at times Walmart looked interesting. But, I made well into the 6 figures at times too. I did well enough I thought being a full time log exporter would be the ticket. It wasn’t.
4 years ago I sold out and was unemployed for the first time in my life. In February. With nothing to do. I decided I was going to try landscaping.
It took off like a rocket. For the first time in my life, I made really big money. At first. lol. All I’ll say about that was it can pay very, very, good. The only problem is your employees. Better yet, the lack of competent employees.
In a more rural setting then thought to be required, the money from doing that work versus the potential return is pretty incredible. As long as you get to keep it. Instead of paying for car fenders, doors, heat pumps, etc…. In other words, for the money invested, it returns more then anything I’ve done. If you have the right people.
That realization led me back to my roots. Back to building. So, as I limped through the first full season of knocks and bruises doing landscaping and lawn care, I tested and received my general contractors license. Knowing I had no intentions of only working 7-8 months a year landscaping anyways.
That’s where I’m at today. A licensed General contractor. No lawn care or landscaping anymore. Just building. And, as all things I’ve put in God’s hands, I can’t describe to you how well he’s blessed me. I’m not going to openly discuss what I’ve made the last three years. Other then to say if I wanted something, I’ve bought it.
Its important to understand that your choice of career is going to depend on where you want to live. If working from home is your thing, you are going to need a college degree. However, if labor is your thing, you need to live close enough to other people and civilization to have a client base.
The thing about careers is the time doing whatever you choose to do for a living. I work hard now. Physically. I’m almost 50 so that makes a difference.
If I have one compliant, it’s I work too much. And, my body hurts. But, I work for myself. And, I’m working towards more time to do what I want hunting.
However, labor isn’t all bad. I’m hard as a rock. At almost 50. I take not one pill. I’m in great health now. So, it keeps you young until it breaks you down. But, if I’d done this instead of college, I’d retired at 40-45. So, the aches and pains now would be a thing of the past.
My advice is pick up a trade. If I don’t take another contract, I’ll work for a year. Whatever you decide to do, do it well. People will pay premium if that’s the service they get. It’s my niche. I’m particular. If it isn’t perfectly right, I’m not going to leave it. Word gets around so, people call me knowing I’m going to be higher then most. It’s a great place to be if you are selling a service.
I took a career in wildlife biology because it was similar to hunting. You basically chase and catch critters but without a weapon. There is good money on the consulting side and travel is required. The best news is that we don’t do as much bio field work during late fall and winter…hunting season. It does require a college degree and most applicants have a Masters but it’s not required. Starting out you would make around $50K plus overtime (depending on region) and can make 6 figures within 10 years if you are a good worker and can write well. Scientists aren’t the best writers so if you are good at it you can go far.
As a teacher, I would have a hard time selling my job for the hunting/fishing/side of things, but I'm lucky to live in an area where I can enjoy the outdoors daily either by hunting before or after school, running a trap line during the winter or taking kids fishing for Outdoor PE.
As a teacher, I tell my students the same thing I will tell you, follow your heart. If you are a free spirit and want to start a buisness, go for it. If you want to work in a stable career, find the area that you enjoy and go after it. Life is short and we spend many hours of it working. Make sure you enjoy it and if you don't take the steps to make changes. Change is hard but usually for the better.
I work in the trades during the summer months but enjoy teaching more. You will find your occupation that will fit your personallity and interest because you are willing to work hard and be true to yourself. Good luck!!
I’m old school so this likely won’t fly to far. I have been retired for 10 years and 71 now. I went the white collar route, after college graduation. I was not bowhunting yet, but was an avid gun hunter. My priority was find a career job, that pays decent, and one that I could enjoy. I focused on job performance not how much time I could get off for hunting. Ended up being transferred (and promoted) eight times all around the USA. And I traveled the globe on business. I hunted locally every where we lived and usually took a week or more on an out of state hunt most years. That job paid me quite well, and I retired at 61 and hunt as much as I want. Since retiring I’ve been to Ak four times, Africa three times, and lots of places in the USA and Canada. Would also say that unlike a trade job, my body is not worn out. My advice, is if you are working for someone else, focus on the value you bring to the organization, and that organization will reward you. If they don’t, you picked the wrong company. And if you go into the trades, nothing wrong with that, but if you are a high performer in a union, expect to drag along a few poor workers and have your pay averaged with theirs.
"And if you go into the trades, nothing wrong with that, but if you are a high performer in a union, expect to drag along a few poor workers and have your pay averaged with theirs."
Trades are for the benefits & retirement. If you are an electrician, plumber, tin knocker, welder, etc... Side hustle is where you make the $$'s. Let the company pay for the bulk of your healthcare, 401K match, (or pension).
The US has a massive shortage of certified wastewater and water treatment plant operators. It typically was not a high paying job but normally it came with great government type benefits. If you look around you will still be able to find positions like this with great benefits and plush pension plans. I mentioned they don't pay well, but it has become so competitive and the field is basically nothing but grey hairs with very few new people that now utility companies and municipalities are fighting over employees. This was a pre-covid issue that has only gotten worse. It is not uncommon for an employee to move to the town next door for a $20,000/ year raise especially when the town next door has privatized their operations. Also...if you get on at the right place there is lots of room for advancement with upper management positions that pay well. The field is often an afterthought but it is a fun profession to work in and it is becoming super competitive. It at one time was a very blue collar field, but with ever changing regulation from the EPA these positions are trending away from the trade type work to a professional type job.
If you select a career that you don't enjoy it doesn't matter what the money and hours are. So first sit down and list what you are passionate about. Then investigate what the opportunities are in those areas.
I'm a lawyer. I recommend it. I live in the sticks outside a town of less than 1000 people. I'm 20 minutes from the biggest town around of 10,000 people. Pretty flexible on hours, my own boss, etc. I'll never be rich, but I get to hunt quite a bit :)
If I was doing it again I'd go to med school. Local town of 10,000 people has a nice small hospital. Starting brand new doctors there make around $250k and the administration kisses their butts, because it's hard to get doctors in a rural area. They control their schedules. It's classified as an "underserved area" so doctors and nurses that sign contracts can get major state and federal assistance for student loan repayments.
Or maybe optometry or pharmacology. . . . saw a billboard in rural SD this weekend, somebody wanting an eye doctor, starting at $150k. . . . That's interesting.
Trades are always good too. I know a lot of people that make good money in different areas. If you show up when you say you will and do good work, you'll always have work.
What a person does in their career is so individualistic I feel like it's near impossible to say ________is good. Because ____ is great for one person and is hell for another.
Bottom line is the world is your oyster today if you've got even a half decent work ethic. My grandparents got any job and held onto it as long as they could, because the line-ups were miles long for every position. Nowadays if I find a gem of a person I will make room in my company for them. My advice? Make yourself that person. Make yourself the person that someone wants to want to have around. It doesn't take much. A great work ethic, some humility and ability to learn...your options are limitless.
"Work/life balance" basically didn't exist before, but today is at the top of everyone's mind. Society cares about it like never before, so chances are you can achieve it nearly anywhere. That's a long conversation, but I don't care who you are or what you do; if you're good, and you're sharp, and you come to your employer with a way to generate a win-win where you get what you want, and they what they want it will happen. There are just too few good hard-working young people around. Being able to think about what someone else wants is where most people stumble. They'll approach their employer like: "So I just walked into a dealership and walked out with a new truck so I need a raise." It's all about me, all about I, and that's fine. But if you show the ability to think beyond your own interests and also about your employers... wow. You're amazing. You don't need to put your job BEFORE your own interests, but if you can take yourself out of your own needs and situation for a minute and show that ability that every employee expects their employer to have for them you're a rockstar.
And I hate to say it, but young people have the upper hand. A 25 year old with a great work ethic is going to get hired before a 50 year old with the same work ethic most times. The upside is just larger. I can't even explain how much opportunity you have if you are that person. Our teachers used to tell us you can do anything - which is a crock. But dang, these days, you can almost do anything. Can you sit in an office? Do you want to work outside? Do you want to work with your hands? Do you want to work with people, or in service? Are you an intellectual? Do you want to work for the government? Do you want to work for yourself? What is your risk aversion like? Are you comfortable betting on yourself?
Figure out what you like, what offers the $ and vacation and travel that appeals to you and your family or potential family. From there, make it happen. Just like in hunting there are doers and there are dreamers. Some guys can't get past the dreaming stage of doing a hunt while others just go out and have lived that dream 5 times over while the first guy is still trying to figure out if it is possible. Go for it, and don't fail. I honestly feel like I've never failed. Because what some may call failure I call learning. I've learned a lot. Giver buddy.
I would recommend becoming an engineer. Cornell has an excellent program for one, and also, they are in demand, as the US has slipped significantly in that department, Asia, mostly India and China have been flooding the workspace. Kids need to focus on math and science, then strive to achieve. I am a union tradesman, but the work place is being overrun with a non-union/illegal alien workforce. Jobs are being underbid by unscrupulous contractors, and those workers are not working safely, and getting paid a fair wage.
I'm fairly proud of the path I took and while it had it's ups and downs, it worked out for me. The first thing you need to figure out is "what can I do?" and "what am I willing to do?"
The fastest way to make a lot of money is the entrepreneurial route. That is also the fastest way to go broke, by far. If you take an hourly or salary position you are gauranteed to make x amount from now forward. What direction will your personality allow/require you to take? Do you want to make good money and have 2-4 weeks off every year or can you work your ass off for 10-15 years, with basically no time off at all towards a day when you have plenty of money and more time off?
I purchased my first small herd of cows when I was 13. I purchased a hay rake and bailer when I was 14 and started putting up hay on shares while renting a tractor. I took over the family farm when I was 18 and slowly went broke over the next 7 years. I took the wrong path at first and it set me back about 10 years. I gave that all up and moved to a western state to start over. There I took a number of hourly jobs trying to figure out what to do next.
At 29, I figured out I was a really good intrumentation technician and really good at showing others how to work on said equipment. I became the go-to guy when they had something difficult to fix. An opportunity arose that allowed my wife and I to start our own electrical contracting business and start bidding work for a major oil and gas producer.
Here is the "what are you willing to do" part of the story. During the start up we nearly lost it all. We went 90 days without getting paid, while having to pay 5 employees twice a month. We begged and borrowed from all sources just to get over the hump. We couldn't borrow a dime from a bank at the time. We barely pulled it off but we did.
To shorten the story, we managed to do without for a number of years while we grew the company. Once it took off, we started a few other small businessess, some grew and some fizzled. We lived very meager lives and I didn't get in much hunting. My hunting was basically a weekend here and there. I even drew a few tags that I never got to use. What are you willing to do?
We went from keeping 5 guys working locally to nearly 100 with offices in 5 states in 16 years. We sold 2 thriving businesses and reinvested so we can live off of the income from those sales. That was my path and that's why I can hunt over 100 days a year today.
There is a path to security and wealth in this country, at least for now, but that path is not an easy one. If you are willing to put everything you have into something you own and control the rewards can be amazing.
You have to pick something that has unlimited growth potential. You won't get there if you start a business that has a ceiling. It has to be something that can continue to grow. That's where the real potential lies.
No money in the family so college was out. Started working in a trade at local newspaper at 13, after high school spent 35 years in the printing trade, I know how to do things Ben Franklin did. Computers eliminated my trade completely and no employer will spend dollars training a 50 year old when he can get 19 year olds for $8.00 an hour. It has all worked out well and we are living comfortable due to the wifes teachers pension. Young folks should try to look ahead but not sure how that is done.
Went into the Army at 18 as a Medic. Did my 3 years, mustered out, worked a bunch of blue collar jobs for quite a few years, before going back to School for X-Ray, then on to a Nuclear Medicine Internship (worked full time graveyard shifts, and took a full load of classes for 4 years). All that was years ago (I'm now 61).
Seems it's always "time vs money" when it comes to jobs. Couldn't ask for a better situation than I have now, I have complete autonomy, run my own Department, with zero oversight, outpatients only (no call shifts). I can take as much time as I need for my hunting trips and family trips, but I tend to bank sick time and vacation.
That being said, I routinely take a full 14 days to chase elk somewhere, and several other long weekend trips for other hunts.
Some great advice on this thread. Way too many young people approach the work environment as if they should be owed and appreciated for just showing up. I try to coach a few in how to getcahrad by showing you have mettle, can tolerate some B.D. in the workplace, and asking your manager to give you more responsibility so you can show more value.
I had a job of some sort for 50 straight years, age 10 (paper route) to age 60 when I retired. Sold worms and minnows for bait and scavenged lost golf balls for extra cash. That work ethic seems to be a thing of the past.
I lived out in the country and starting milking cows at 6yrs old. My parent instilled a good ethic in me and my brother. After High School worked construction for a while then joined the Air Force and served 25 plus years.
After the military I worked for the VA until 59 1/2. I’m fully retired and enjoying life.
What ever you chose get something that isn’t to hard on your body. Also a job that’s in high demand even if the bad economy. Medical field jobs is always a wise choice.
I was going to open a one hour photo processing place once........
Tough call. I'd tend to go for the trades for many guys right now as they're paying good money for a warm body that they can count on to show up. Anybody with a work ethic and a bit of intelligence for learning will likely do more than fine at whatever they choose. But such jobs pretty much trade time for money. They are jobs. If it's alot of fun you likely don't have to pay somebody to do it. And most jobs don't have near the "flexibility" most folks would like. Or they wouldn't need you in the first place.
A good bit out there can be contract work. I know a young couple who are traveling "nurses". They work contract to contract in (90-120 day?) chunks and make good enough money to take a good bit of time off and can plan on when and how long they want/can afford to take it. Contract to contract can also relieve a bit of burnout. I know some fishermen in AK that bust their azzes for a few months and make enough (usually....) to take the rest of the year off in Maui. But such jobs are often hell on family. Family life can be a big big deal to consider.
I enjoy working with my hands and mind. Got a year and a half in college, but sitting in school was like sliding bamboo slivers under my fingernails..... I did well in school, very well actually. But that just proves you can still do well at something even if you hate it. Girls and party didn't pay well.... or rather, at least the way I was doing it. Self employed and have had ups and downs over many years. Markets.... even areas change. If you own a hardware store in an area where Home Depot just moved next door, good luck. And I can't count the number of buggy whip jobs I've seen come and go over the years. Are Baristas still going to be a "thing" in the future? We have a tenant that makes great money at it. Own an office building? When was they last time you went to an office to buy insurance? Every office building here has a "for lease" sign on them. Be a boy scout and be prepared. Always good advice no matter the circumstances.
Anyway.... the only thing certain alongside death and taxes... is change. What employment you think is "security".... until tides change and it's not. And self employed (which has an incredibly high failure rate) often just means that you work for an idiot..... but the upside is you can always tell yourself to go to hell.....
I hear they're taking apps for Ukrainian Oil BOD seat/consultant....... that pays pretty well and a VERY flexible work schedule with, um, drug benefits..... helps if you know somebody who knows somebody....
I told my kids to make their own tracks. Don’t follow what I did. It wasn’t bad, but they would’ve been behind the times if they had.
Here’s a current job story.
My son went to a Junior College for Wind Turbine Technician. He got certified in electrical, schematics, climbing, welding, Upon graduation, he got hired on with Vail Resorts as a Maintenance Electrician. Climbing ski lift towers and rewiring control panels.
He did that for 5 years - until 4 weeks ago.
He is now a Commercial Field Service Electrician for Tesla. Doing maintenance on the Supercharger stations in western Colorado.
He’ll be making $100k and he’s 25 years old.
Whether or not you agree with the electric vehicles, there is and will be maintenance to do and he’s right in front of the industry.
I made all the molds and mold all the Tightspot 5 arrow quiver hoods and grippers since day one. Also have made every mold and photochromatic sight cover for Black Gold Sights since the first one. Been extraordinarily thankful Mike Ellig made a point to stay Made in America regardless.
It's a long story how I got here, but my diploma in Finance and a minor in economics from Montana State in 1984 is just about useless other than to beat people over the head with :)
Move where you want to live and go make your own way. Listening to others advice is a double edged sword. Making your own decisions and mistakes your way is what makes for a road in life well lived.
As I say for a motto, 'if you believe you can be a little better every day at what ever you chose to do, you never know where all those 'a little bit betters' will have you end up !!!'
Remember it's the road and not the destination that most often is what you'll hang your hat on in the end of the day.
Cheers and good luck in what ever you choose to lend your hand to.
I'm a Registered Nurse and ER is my specialty. I only work 3 days a week, and I can make as much as I want to work. I always get hunting season off, because there is no competition on the schedule for fall and winter. I can get a job anywhere in the country without an in-person interview if I do travel nursing. Downside I am often overworked and it can be stressful. I tell all my nursing students to go on for their master's or doctorates. They'll make more, and be in control of what happens to the patient. I get so worn out after 12 hour shifts in ER, I haven't expanded my mowing business I operate on my 4 days off in 6 years. The guys on here that started big companies make my income look like pennies.
I've been an Episcopal Priest for 35+ years and have enjoyed most of it (There's always THOSE DAYS). I've gotten a lot of vacation every year and have gotten to know a lot of great people, some of whom have turned into great hunting partners. \
Yes, I would encourage young people of faith to consider Holy Orders. It can be a great life. TMBB
I quit school in the 9th grade. Got a job as a carpet installers helper. Was on my own subcontracting jobs at age 21. I did good work made plenty of money & unfortunately for me had I just saved & invested a fraction of what I pissed away on hunting & fishing over my younger years I'd easily be comfortably retired now.
I MAY NOT BE A MILLIONAIRE BUT IVE HAD A MILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF FUN.....
If I told you what I do you wouldn't believe me. Spent many years in the corporate world, 100's of emails a day...nothing but whining, bitching, and complaining from others. I resigned 5yrs ago to escape the silliness, and for my own mental well being.
Love what I do now, it's sales, and not only is the money better but I have from mid-Oct til to mid-Jan off to hunt, as well as a few weeks in the Summer. I hit it hard in the Spring and late Summer though.
I see so many folks worried about retirement, and by the time they get there they physically can't do anything. Most die money rich and experience poor...don't be that guy.
Started processing meat with my dad when I was 14. Did a little before that but he started the business in 91’. I’ve a handful of different jobs while we continually grew the business. Went from 1/4 of a garage to 1/2 of the garage. Added more cooler and freezer space. Finally decided to go big and built a small slaughter and processing plant in 2006. Added on a year later. Again in 2012 and another small one in 2013. It’s been a good career for me but it can be physically demanding. We are currently looking to add on again, a big one this time and go full USDA inspected and sell meat.
We quit processing wild game in 2020 because the demand is so high for domestic. I haven’t missed that side of the business at all! It’s tough to get the time to go hunting on longer trips but I can make it happen if I plan it out well. It’s really, really hard to find employees. I have a decent crew now but need to add 4-6 people. Especially in the fall. I don’t make much money though. Lots of over head and besides us, there are quite a few small plants in the area so it really spreads the work out thin sometimes.
It sounds cliche, but figure out what you really like and then go after it. The rest of your life is going to be a long, long time if your doing something you hate for the $$. Even if it is big $$. Being self employed can be great but you better have the constitution to thrive on it. And dont confuse being good at a trade or skill. Running a business is a whole different skill from doing ---------------------.
You mentioned liking land clearing. Are you a people person? Are you a good mechanic and problem solver to keep that equipment running? or a good business person to charge enough to afford someone else to do the wrenching, or buying new dependable equip often enough to avoid major wrenching? What tickles your fancy or is your personal strengths or weaknesses ? If you were in the military they did aptitude and personality profiling to decide what they would use you for. Do you have access to that ? If your going to manage people or run a business an MBA would serve you well. But not just any one. Years ago I took a couple classes towards one and the classes were marginally better than tits on a bull. The current class I am taking through our association is far better and focused. I am sure if I would have had this class years ago it would have sharpened me up tremendously. I am confident it would make an employee in a company pretty valuable in helping the company thrive above and beyond what ever skill you bring. If your interested I would be happy to private message on this subject.
On the plus side you are job/career hunting at a fantastic time
Test for a career fire department. Best decision I ever made.
Edit- as for selling? Work 10 days a month, make just south of $100k. Can pick up OT whenever I want, or find a side business in my down time. Tremendous health and retirement benefits.
What other job pays you to eat, workout, and watch TV??
Either IT or Healthcare. Both pay well and will continue to be in demand going forward. If you have the aptitude and interest, IT hands down…Upfront costs (schooling) is much less vs Healthcare and the ability to work remotely can’t be overstated . Another suggestion would be to find a woman who isn’t a lazy arse and makes good money too. Oh, and nix the having kids…what are they now 275k each from birth to 18yrs? 275k= a-lot of whatever you want….diapers are pricey!!
General Dentist As a child I always wanted to be an M.D. When I got older and was in the cusp of applying I realized that all the docs I was shadowing and interacting with kinda hated their job. I got scared. A friend suggested dentistry and it’s been great. I still got a doctorate ( which was a personal goal ) and it’s well suited to one who likes the outdoors. It’s common to run your own office, work 4 days a week and be able to take a few weeks off during the year. If you don’t want the challenge of owning your own there are lucrative government positions out there if you look or you can be an associate for another dentist or work for a corporate dental entity like Aspen Dental. Most places have a shortage of dentists so the country is wide open for you to pick a spot to work. Also, dental school can be paid for in some situations if you’ll agree to work in an underserved area of the state your school is in. That doesn’t mean some urban hell hole….out of the way rural counties with great hunting are also often considered underserved.
My advice would be to learn HVAC, plumbing or electric.
I own a “ high end” electrical contracting business where most of my electricians are technicians. Their skill set commands the salary they earn easily.
The trade is very technical now with diverse areas such as EV, Automation, Generators, and solar . You can polish your skill set and try to start your own business.
Trust me, skilled craftsmen are a dying breed. I can’t find enough of them.
I'd give everything I had away and live under a bridge before I considered life without my kids. If you're a kid person don't let money stop you. If you're not a kid person well then hey. No one's making you.
I noticed a common theme. It seems that the most valuable folks either grow something, build something or fix something. If you can find something that you like to do meeting one of these categories you should do well. I am a pretty good mechanic but I value my local auto mechanic for his skill and experience. Get good at what you do and you will not lack work or cash.
Some great advice above. I didn't know what I wanted to do out of high school. My mom was working at a machine shop and got me in there. Started out sweeping floors, picking up scrap, etc. Within 10 years I was one of our top screw machine operators and had a good 23 year run. I was working with guys in there 60's and saw their bodies deteriorating and decided I needed to find something else. I had my RE license and was doing it part time but I loved looking at houses so I decided to get into RE appraising. Got licensed in 2006 and certified in 2008 and was enjoying life working for myself. After the housing crash of 2008, the HVCC was a huge new regulation in response to the housing crash. Alot of lenders required 5 years of licensing and because I was under 5 years, I got squeezed out of the business. I had to swallow my pride real hard and get back into what I worked so damn hard to get out of. With my experience, I was able to jump back in near the top of the pay scale. Did that for 2 years (2009-2011) to get some income then jumped over to aerospace work running EDM machines. Easy on the body but missed doing my own thing. Jumped back into appraising in 2017. Been doing great for 5 years now. Remodeled the whole house and paid off the mortgage 3 years ago. Took the month of August off for a hunt last year and in 2020 I took the month of September off for my elk hunt. I would suggest finding employment now that doesn't require alot of secondary education to build up some $$ so you have a cushion when you're ready to jump into your long term goal within 5-7 years. Luckily, my wife has a good job which made the transition back to appraising much easier.
Greenmountain, you forgot "sell something". Someone with a personality can make a ridiculous amount of money selling stuff, whether real estate, technology, whatever, and not break their body down.
One aspect that sort of came up: Are you a family guy? Want kids etc. So that adds complications! But, if being a parent and raising kids is important to you, it worth the pain.
That said, you don't really need a job you love, but you do NOT want a job you hate. For me my career was to put me in a place where I could raise my family, have the fun wife and I wanted and down the road be able to retire and enjoy life. At almost 58 I have a retirement date, 2 grandsons and life is good. Do I love my job? Nope, but I'm pretty good at it and I get paid very well. It allowed everything I wanted. Every job has a down side, they all have sucky days, they all have issues. Whatever you do, work ethic and work hard and LEARN is the key to success. The world doesn't owe you squat, you have to go take it.
From someone, who had 35yrs in the trade, if you decide to get into the trades, or any other career for that matter, work ethic, attitude and punctuality are your best friends. Anyone with a desire to learn a trade can be taught. Arrive early, nothing worse than having to change your plans 5 minutes before work starts because someone did not show up or showed up late. I was a foreman for 25 years and my hardest thing to do was lay off good workers with families, due to lack of work, but I never had a problem firing someone for attendance reasons no matter how good they were. As far as the caption goes, "sell your career" As for being a carpenter, some days I ate hotdogs and some days I ate steak, my children always had what they needed, not necessarily everything they wanted. I loved what I did and wouldn't trade that for any other career. I can go all over from Colardo to Florida, Illinios, Indiana, and Wisconsin. and see homes that I built or worked on over the past 40 years. Literally 1000s of them, it is quite rewarding for me.
My primary business is a construction contractor- self made, no degree.
I can't say I would recommend it. Yes I've done really well in my lifetime...but with labor issues and such, I would recommend a recurring revenue type of business with minimal employees like Insurance.
If you want a high paying trade, there are plenty of those. I know welders making $200k/yr plus....HVAC guys making $200k, Firemen making $200k plus and they only work 1/2 the time.
And then you don't have to deal with employee issues.
I will second a career in firefighting. It can be a very rewarding career. A big fire will give you an adrenaline rush on par with a big buck encounter. Saving a life is a feeling that can’t be beat by any other thing you will ever do. You will make good money, have good benefits, a great schedule and a defined benefit pension. I was able to retire at age 51 after 24.5 years with a nice pension. I wasn’t very good at retirement and went back to school to be an RN. It is another good job with so many options for work environment, schedule, pay and level of intensity. I have decided to tone down the intensity so I have gone in to private practice where they let me take pretty much unlimited time off and treat me well. I know nurses making a lot of money traveling but just know that as a traveler they look at you as a temporary employee. They don’t need to keep you happy like the regular nurses and may dump on you. The most important thing is that you need to find a happy mix. Don’t take a job just to accommodate hunting. You will spend much more time at work than you will hunting. Find a job that interests you but doesn’t demand so much that you have nothing but work. Finally if it isn’t working out, admit it and move on. The first time I graduated from college I took a job as a pension analyst for an insurance company. I stuck it out for 5 years and hated about every minute of it. Took a pay cut to become a firefighter and never looked back. Fubar Racin I know plenty of firefighters in New England making far north of $100K but the problem is they are working a ton of OT to do it. It’s all about choices.
Trades are always a good option, either construction or maintenance. If you live in an area that has industry, hospitals or universities there are good maintenance jobs available that often pay very well and also have good benefits and retirement plans.
As an electrician I started in construction but worked the bulk of my career at the research facility of a major university. Interesting work, great working conditions, good pay and benefits. I eventually moved up to a management position and recently retired.
The trades offer a lot of opportunity no matter where you live. Good luck with your search.
PM sent. I am a mining engineer by education and have spent over 20 years in mine engineering and operations. I love the industry and the people. It’s allowed me plenty of time outdoors, time to raise a family, and taken me to some interesting places.
It’s a neat blend of indoor and outdoor work. That said, many of the trades listed are worth a look within the industry. From welders to machinists to electricians to environmental techs, many fields are open. With a country wanting to transition it’s energy and transportation systems, a mobile, energetic, smart young man won’t lack work opportunities in the modern mining industry.
Don't think I've seen anyone mention this, but building swimming pools is a nice way to make a living. You're mostly supervising sub contractors. There's a ton of demand, at least in the sunny parts of America. Prices in southern Utah are ridiculous with a 6 month wait. The good builders I know have multiple houses. One even has an airplane...
You can make $120-$150k pretty easily as a travel RN. 2 years of prerequisites and 2-4 years of a program, either Associates RN or bachelor's RN. Both are the exact same certification and require a passing grade on the exact same licensure exam (NCLEX RN). Work 3 days, off 4, or work 6 days, off 8. Firefighters in my area don't even make $60k Beendere.
I feel strongly about recommending self-employment but not everyone wants that. I honestly believe working for yourself is less risky than working for someone else. 2 fields I see huge potential in is Cybersecurity and some form of coding skills. Although those will require some training.
If you want to reach out to me directly I'd be happy to share how I quit General Electric to start an ecommerce business and now can work from anywhere with a wifi connection. It's not very glamorous but you could go hunting whenever you like.
The plus to self employment is you have a lot more control over you. If you pay attention to your business metrics, the amount of success is on you. Working for someone else is a façade for job security, your future is completely at the whim of someone else's agenda. The secret to a good business is that your idea addresses an "industry pain". Lots of good ideas out there, but not all of them are good businesses...
I am very close to my neighbors' families and always visit with their kids when they are back from college. If they are old enough, we have a beer and they are very candid with me. We talk about their futures and what their friends are pursuing in school. Milling Science and Construction Science have a huge demand. Huge. If you aren't opposed to going back to school, that's a great option.
If you can get a CDL and pass a drug test, going to work in the oilfields right now isn't a bad option. Just know that when getting into commodities, you might be the best at your job and still get laid-off. We need more young white guys in the oil patch. If you have any interest in Kansas, I know plenty of people.
Edit: Seeing you are in Missouri, Pittsburg State prides itself on 100% job placement from their Construction Science program. A friend of mine in Wichita works for Hutton Construction (large regional) and would be happy to talk with you.
Only guys making $200k in an FD aren’t pulling hose, they’re holding a clipboard and telling firefighters what to do on calls lol. That’s Chief wages right there
Whatever you decide, start investing ASAP. Compound interest is a beautiful thing. Start now at 23 investing as much as you can and you'll have millions in 20 years.
I suggest you take one or more of the in depth personality/interest surveys. My kids both did this more than once prior to entering college and if you input quality data into the test/survey, the results will be highly indicative of an area or field that will go well with your personality type and personal strengths. I think these types of tests are invaluable for someone at your stage in life. No matter what any of us do, you aren't us and what we might love, you may hate due to who you are and what your makeup is. I have read lots of the comments about being self employed and how great it is,,,, there is a flip side to that coin as well. I have been self employed for over 20 years and I have grown into it and overall like it, but being the boss isn't for everyone and there are many headaches that come with it but you can't beat the flexibility. Neither of my children are following my career path because I urged them to pursue what was best for them and their interests, not mine or someone on the internet.......... And that internship you are doing in Congress, it is a "resume stuffer" that will likely get you somewhere along with your military background. Good luck to ya!
I'll piggyback off of what hawg wrote. I had a 41 year career as a Land Surveyor and was able to retire at 58 with a great pension plus a 457 plan (similar to 401K) and medical insurance paid for life. I had over 7 weeks per year vacation, plus comp time hours off, plus 11 paid holidays and was able to take most of September and November off for hunting. I was Licensed in Minnesota and Wisconsin making well into 6 figures when I retired. You can get a 2 year associate degree or a bachelor's degree. Some states require a Bachelor's Degree to get licensed. There are many facets to being a land surveyor. There's a lot of math (trig, geometry, algebra). You have be part historian, part archeologist, part lawyer, knowledge of forestry and natural resources, etc. It can be very high tech with very advanced equipment and computer software. There's work with GPS, robotic total stations, 3D scanners, drones, etc. You can work in the field, specialize in office work or both. You can work anywhere in the world. You can work for federal, county or state government, private firms or start your own business. I was a County Surveyor and worked in a suburban county just east of the Minneapolis/St Paul Metro area. I know several private practice land surveyors in twin city metro area who became millionaires off their Land Surveying business. One of their keys to success was having faithful clients who were large scale housing and commercial land developers. There's a lot of money in land development. There are also many different types of surveying such as construction for roads and bridges, mine surveying, bathymetric, aerial, etc, etc. At one point I was offered a supervisory position working out of Anchorage Alaska for the BLM. Part of me regrets not taking it and moving to Alaska but I already had a really good gig.
I also don't believe that phone apps and/or tech will ever replace the land surveying profession because it's not just about measuring and coordinates. It's about gathering, evaluating and analyzing evidence, applying proper law and legal precedence and developing the correct professional opinion. There are too many variables for a phone app to that correctly.
If you're interested Google the National Society of Professional Surveyors, the National Society of County Surveyors, the Minnesota Society of Professional Surveyors, etc and you will find info on careers in land surveying.
Trades people seem to be in demand now. I’m an electrician, that’s a trade you can take almost anywhere. Limitations are a journeyman card obtained in one state is not always valid in another state.
One thing about trades though, companies really don’t care if you like the outdoors and hate when you take extended time off and get real pissy when you refuse to work Saturday’s. Union wage here in NM is $45.66/hr if I’m not mistaken. $10.00/hr comes off the top for benefits. Private enterprise is about $30.00 assuming you are a commercial/industrial journeyman. Paid time off is little to none.
Owning your own business is where the money is really made but the constant hustle for work, keeping guys going at least 40 hours a week and dealing with personalities, laziness, other trades and generals that aren’t in a big hurry to pay can really suck.
Nursing has been great for having enough time off to hunt and fish, I work part-time so 5 days one week 2 days the next, 8 hour shifts that I turn into 12s and 16s never picking up on my days off! Last year I had 7 weeks paid vacation plus some banked time so I was off from August 20 to October 20!
I went to be a lineman and through SCADA through a trade school. Working for a electrical company that manufactures equipment and I'm one of the field guys that work on our equipment. I've been with my company a total of 19 years and can't complain about the money and time off. I've gotten to travel and work in every state a few different countries so the traveling part (I think) is pretty awesome and I'm not gone to long that bothers the family to much. (I think anyway)
To be honest though, if you went trade school wise. I would to lineman school or somehow get on with WAPA or Bonneville Power which is a government job with the government benefits. Of course you have some BS but not the stuff out east. All the lineman or substation jobs would be in the western half or midwest states. Darn good money and after a few years a ton of vacation and sick time.
I am a structural (civil) engineer that does primarily bridge design and don't have many complaints. Work hours are very flexible and are usually able to work at least some remote - especially now. Pay is also good with salary over 100k after you get some experience and pass professional engineer exam. I have a BS and a MS degree, but just the BS would be needed.
Big thing I can say about it is that it will be a stable job as our infrastructure is not in great shape so there will always be work! If you are a problem solver and want to see the fruits of your labor outlast you.....it's a pretty cool job. Plus....we can't find people so there will be jobs!
Only real complaint is that it's a schedule driven profession that can be frustrating at times. If schedules stack up and cannot be moved it usually means more hours of work.
I really enjoyed this thread as it contained so much useful information for the OP from a bunch of accomplished people in various careers. Always nice to learn more about fellow Bowsiters too. I think Charlie ( as well as others) hit the nail on the head regarding "marrying the right person" as I believe that you could be happy cleaning toilets if you marry right.
Different take but I’d say move. Go where you want to be to do the things you want to do. No place has everything, except maybe Alaska. You can figure out employment. Not saying I did that. Tough to hunt elk in South Carolina, even self employed.
It’s been said before on this thread but I’ll say it again. Look into Firefighting.
The job seems to be a great transition for former military guys and often former military are given preference for hiring. The schedule is really tuff to beat. 2 days on and 4 days off is common here in CO and a 4 day hunt every week isn’t too bad. If you just do 2 trades or 2 PTO days that becomes 10 days in a row off too.
Firefighter/Paramedics are in high demand nationwide and wages have been rapidly climbing to numbers I would have never expected.
One negative unfortunately is the potential wear and tear on your body. It ain’t what it used to be and there certainly is more focus on personal safety but it kind of just is what it is.
Not necessarily trying to sell my career. But the path I have traveled so far is working.
Associate degree. Electronic communications. Private sector. Worked for 20 years. Now in administration roll (local government). I also have a side business in consulting.
Trades can be a good place to start. (I climbed radio towers as part of my time in private sector) But keep in mind many trades take a toll on your body. Be ready to migrate into a supervisor roll at some time. (There is a reason you don’t see any 50+ roofers who aren’t hobbled). Be prepared to sell what you know/experience (Intellectual property)
As mentioned, start saving for retirement early. Started 1st IRA at 19. Make saving a habit. Then you can adjust the rate (increase) as you get older.
I am in the camp of finding a career which enables funding and time off to hunt. Game warden could seem enjoyable, until you realize are busy when the bulk of hunting and fishing takes place.
Now with consulting, No inventory. I can do that after retirement if I want. As much or little walking around money as I want. ( That reminds me, I need to send out an invoice!)
Yoop, I’ve been in sales my whole life after baseball. And I’ve run into some ugly successful people. If I could tell anyone, get a four year degree and get into sales.
My advice would be to learn to operate as many different tools as possible, from welders to trucks to excavators to computers to lasers to...
A few year ago I was talking with a guy who needed to hire someone for a state F&W job. He had applications from people with Masters and PhD's. Ended up hiring a guy with a BS who could also operate heavy excavation equipment.
Lineman or water treatment operator. If you get in with a municipality your time off will unbelievable! I get nine weeks a year including my 10 sick days.
14 years ago I started working for a farm equipment manufacturing facility. Started at ground level and with hard work and luck 6 years later I was a supervisor, money was good to start but really kicked in at this level (as does stress). Manufacturing may sound silly compared to many of the career choices above but of my 23 employees 4 of the have 4 year degrees and make far more money working for me. We have 100% free health care and a 15% 401k profit sharing that you are not allowed to touch until you quit or retire. And that is not a 15% match. That’s on top of your gross wage for the year. I have guys putting in 15% of their check and the company’s 15%. This company will make you a millionaire by the time you retire without you adding anything. We work 6-2:30 5 days a week and Saturdays are optional. For a whitetail hunter in Iowa this is a dream job. You literally can hunt everyday. I’d you were a good welder or machine operator you can make 80k a year plus those benefits a year. Which is pretty good considering we are in a very low cost of living state/ area. I have 18 year old kids making 55k / year walking in the door.
My words of advice for anyone and it’s simple math really, if you don’t know what you are going to college for or don’t want to move to use your degree, I suggest getting a job first (or staying working for us). 4 years of college will run 50k. In those same 4 years you can make 250k working. In total working for us puts you 300k ahead in life. IF you go to college and use your degree, you will make up that deficit. But if you don’t use it, you’ll be way behind from the start.
Great post Caribou77! Wish you had a facility here. Just to throw in on the cost of college, there are ways to avoid the high out of pocket cost and student debt. The military is one way, as the OP mentioned. Another way is to study, get good grades, score well on college entrance exams and apply for every scholarship available your senior year. We preached these things to my son and daughter and it has paid off. My son earned $60k in scholarships that will cover his 4 years at our local university, he’s 2 years in. Our daughter is a senior and she has already earned over $30k and will know in the next month if she will receive any more. We didn’t push them into any field but they knew what was expected, primarily that we weren’t going to fund lifestyles that didn’t include college or work. I’m very proud of them both!
Blood- I agree with HDE. All depends on where you go to school. I pulled that number out of my A$$. Could be a LOT more, there in putting you further behind if you don’t use it.
HDE- my plant founder/director of operations doesn’t have any college. Nor does my plant manager who graduated a year ahead of me in school. But in most cases you are surely correct.
Blood, as I mentioned above, I was in big league technology sales. Worked from home, flew all over the world First Class, had an unlimited expense account, limo service, had as much time to hunt and fish as I could manage, plus got paid to take customers hunting, fishing, golfing, etc.. Enjoyed the best hotels and restaurants in every city. Made ridiculous money and perks. And some of my neighbors thought I didn't really have a "job"...
I worked my way up from entry level to get to that point.
Next thing, you’re probably gonna tell us you’re hung like a porn star…..
@OP - I’ll tell you one thing. Stay the hell outta Retail. Even better, don’t have any kids. If you do, for crap-sakes don’t let them play any sports. For that matter, don’t even get married. And whatever you do, never move out of a state you want to be able to hunt.
Don’t ask me how I know.
Seriously speaking, I wouldn’t trade my wife or my 2 hearing-impaired hockey players for the WORLD. You can hunt the whole wide world, and if that’s more important to you than a loving family, you’ll get what you deserve.
I retired from a Steel Mill (32 years) & held a wide variety of postitions. Do not get into a Mfging job. Yes, it can be decent pay BUT somewhere your going to do physical, dirty, nasty jobs. I also did 8 years military (5 active Navy/Marines 3 Army reserves-I SHOULd have stayed in the Navy ) Sorry you got a raw deal from the military (that was just wrong & that is on our shitty President). I have 2 family that are RNs & pay is decent (not fabulas) but long hours. Retail sales, did it, stay away, poor wages MOST of the time. I have a son with his own cement business & does "great" but hard work. I have a relative that travels for Caseys doing fire protection & great wages but "on the road lots" home on weekends. I have a releative banker in manager postition + added duties that makes rediculas salary but is a hard worker (Degreeed), Raises Red Angus + farm 400 acres too. On relative that is a teacher, STAY away these days & money not that great for front line class room teacher. Oh, unless you COACH a College team. I have a relative that "IS" a lineman (several years now) Rediculas wages, Great benefits + more. I have 2 relatives that have 1 State Job & 1 Govt job. BOTH are over paid & underworked (TRUTH & I tell em). I have 1 relative that is a welder, great pay after getting some seneority. He likes it so that is the "secret".. Yes, cyber security, Any computer related seem to be "the" job with the $$$. Every job has its pros & cons & it boils down to the salary that gives you what you & family need & IF you LIKE what your doing.. Big money & not liking the job will not mix.. With your college pretty much free ride, choose the school & your end career wisley.. You have the world by the ass if you make those 2 right choices.. My banker relative went to Universaty of Iowa, Ames. Great area, great Deer, Turkey state. Oh, he tells his sons to NOT BE A BANKER.
HDE, A significant number of the most successful entrepreneurs do not have a college degree. In fact, most agressively inovative people don't have the patience to waste 4 years like that.
It often takes a degree to get an interview but unless you are a doctor, lawyer or engineer, you just don't learn enough in those 4 years to be worth the cost. Even then, I've known plenty of engineers and lawyers who didn't absorb what college was intended to beat into them.
I’m 40. 16 years in higher education. Flexible, rewarding, easy on the body. Considering a career change now as unless I get a PhD I’m topped out. Make more than enough money for my hobbies and to provide for my wife and 3 teens.
As others have said, trades are great, easy fast money right out of the gate. But long term they take a toll on the body, industry changes, and technology advances. Diversification or specialization will be needed to stay on top and ahead of the young dogs coming in behind you.
If I were to do it all over again, likely something in the computer science realm from an education standpoint, then get practical experience working for someone else for a few years, then go out on your own. Tech is here to stay and there will be more than enough jobs and money to be made for a very long time in this industry. After practical experience is gained, you will be able to reap all the aforementioned benefits of being your own boss.
No matter what, don’t disregard the need for a BS and perhaps even a MS. Education combined with practical experience will set you ahead of most in the game at your age and for the next 10 years.
Rocky D, you proved my point about not going to school unless you know what you’re going for. You model shows a lifetime average of 400k difference between high school diploma and a 4 year degree. Very much the same amount you would make by not going to school and finding a good paying job out of school( I believe I used 300k and depending upon the job and school, it could be a much larger difference). I fully agree school is the right choice for many. And a huge waste for many as well. Now talking a Bachelor or Masters. Yes a lot more money can be made more easily. In the end hard work and hard work at education pay off.
Not perfect, but commercial driving is one of those 'portable' skills that's in demand everywhere. In this case, where is there *not* a bunch of Walmart stores and a distribution center or three?
I am an engineer who made money for my various employers until finally starting my own engineering business 6 years ago. Shoulda done that long ago!
My son got a degree in PT and loves it. He negotiated a 4-day work week and is off on either Monday or Friday, so he can have 4-day weekends every 2 weeks. He can also work regular work weeks and stack up comp times to use on top of his vacation time…
The time to negotiate such deals is before they hire you, when I really want you.
Boggs,whatever path you choose the best hammer against the world would include the EARLIEST POSSIBLE involvement into contributing to Roth/Tax deferred accounts.Put off new cars,new houses,etc and try to fill those spaces provided in tax code.You don’t have to make a bunch of money to fill those spaces and be diligent to maxing out the annual contributions limits
1099 income opens up the possibility of a solo 401k which could create additional space to contribute .
Take some time and read about all the difference ways you can put money back,40 years later you will be so thankful you postponed those early splurges
I'd argue that 'portability' in a job skill is important, because if you're 'stuck' in a particular region, too many things are out of your control. Just for instance, read this morning that rents in NYC went up an average of 33 % over the past year. Yikes.
Being a 'general' machinist may be preferable to being 'aerospace' but not wanting to live near Hartford or Seattle etc.
A guy I know is in corporate sales, a few years ago he moved from New England out to the midwest and loves it for the hunting etc. Not sure how many of those jobs are open!
Dana, that's what I did for the last 25 years of my career, in corporate technology sales. I only sold to one huge customer. Lived where I wanted, controlled my own schedule, fantastic perks and income. I got paid to fly to cool places and take people hunting, fishing, golfing as part of my "job". Stayed in the best hotels and ate in the best restaurants wherever I was.
Every company that makes or develops anything has a corporate sales team that manages major customer business accounts. But you have to be really good at it, work your way up by proving yourself. Basically "selling" yourself as you progress.
JSW - yes, I know plenty of degreed people that are clueless about a lot of things. I also know non-degreed people who have no business being where they are (in a company) and a degree may not even get you an interview.
Too much emphasis is placed on formal education in a lot settings for sure.
The older I get the more I appreciate the journey. Too often we get focused on the destination - retirement, etc… and we miss out on life. Seen too many friends work their whole life and then die right around retirement without getting to enjoy it.
Plan for the future, but enjoy the present journey. What to do regarding employment??? - we are all wired differently with differing talents and interests. A good place to start would be what interests you and what are you good at. That may not be what you end up doing long term but it’s a good place to get started.
I have a career I love. I worked as a geologist and mining site manager but now work in the soil conservation field. The salary is decent and I love going to work every day. I have a couple side hustles, freelance writing and owning and operating a small boutique fruit and vegetable farm. We also sell handmade fur garments. We aren't rich by any means but we live a life we love.
It was nice to revisit this thread, so thanks for taking it to the top.
Little update: I returned back to MO in May and immediately started farming and clearing land, started school back up in August at Missouri State and am working on a degree in finance with a minor in animal science, which should open the door for not only the majority of finance companies, but ag companies as well. Depending on where I’m at with land clearing by the end of my degree, I might pursue that still, as a lot of people in my community have commented on my work and acted interested.
Attached is a photo of my typical brush pile, I’m enjoying it so far and it has allowed me to take off 10 straight days for bear hunting this fall, and I’m taking 3 weeks off next spring to pack for a buddy on a Kodiak Brown Bear hunt, as well as allowing me to duck hunt any morning or bow hunt any evening I want - working whatever hours I choose, and as many or as few hours as I choose.
Thanks again for all the great discussion and ideas in this thread! Was a nice reread
A paid fireman is a great job basically you work 8 - 24 hour shifts a month. The schedules vary but usually 24 on 24 off for 7 days then 7 days off. A reasonable salary great benefits and retirement.
I’ll also add that in the past 7 or 8 months especially, I’ve learned that peace of mind and the ability to have free time is much more important than a number in a bank account, although that also is a component of freedom in its own way.
I have a pantry full of canned catfish and venison, a freezer full of bear meat and deer backstrap, and some squirrels and duck breast in the fridge ready to eat on the rest of the week. Aside from onions and “extras” I haven’t went grocery shopping in months. When you keep life simple and don’t chase the next best thing I’ve found that it’s very good and very cheap!
Although I have to check myself every once in a while or else I’ll end up shaving the mustache out of my beard, throwing on a straw hat and suspenders, and buy land next to Pat ;)
I spent 32 years in the State Health Department as an Environmental Health Specialist. It was a great career for me. Lots of outdoor hands on work. Interacting with soil scientists, geologists, engineers, excavators, wildlife biologists, veterinarians, medical professionals, food safety scientists, food service workers, farmers, law enforcement, etc. I wouldn't recommend it for someone like me today. No field work all office. That's why I retired early.
I'd like to see my son acquire rental properties over the next 15-20 years and between that and military retirement ... at 40 years old he'll have all the money he wants
Listen to Lou. However, one of my best friends got into financial advising. He has a bunch of certifications. Starved for a few years. But he is charismatic and outgoing and used those skills to network his ass off and build a clientele. Now he makes more money than he knows what to do with it seems. He is at the age he would love to mentor someone to come up after him in the business. His son has not shown the drive or interest. You need to go learn the trade for 2-3 years at a big shop like Charles Schwab then once you have some chops he might be willing to take you under his wing. Hell of an opp. And he works/lives in Columbia, MO. PM me if you want an introduction. Again, not for introverts or folks not willing to do their time the first 5 years or so. But if you have a wide network of family and friends, this, or selling insurance, are sure bets to find a path to financial security. Don't be a dumbass like me and go to law school.......unless you like working 60-80 hour weeks to pad the pockets of senior partners for $100K a year. Last tip, find a gig and stick with it long term and start saving as soon as you can....even before you can....start and keep saving.
I guess if you don't care what law you practice and go solo or into a small firm and get to be a big fish in a small town/pond, like my buddy Bake, it ain't so bad. But you have to beat the streets to get the clients and take the cases that are available to keep the lights on, hoping to hit a big lick on a personal injury case or a big monthly retainer corp client to have much security. My mistake was bouncing around from firm to firm and town to town, then determining I hate litigation and trying to reinvent myself as a health care/privacy law lawyer too late in life. I got lucky and landed with the City and County of Denver and am doing just fine now.....might actually see retirement as an option which I never considered before. Most lawyers die working....unless they get to be a judge. Few retire.
Get into tech, learn to code, and join a startup. Had a buddy who is single, makes over $200K annual, plus gets stock options working for startups. He will "retire" a multi millionaire before 40 I suspect.
What you have to ask yourself is, where do you want to be in 5 years, 10 years, 20 years? Grinding away for the man at an hourly wage, or grinding away for a very nice salary for the man, or self employed and in control of how much you work and how much you make? Family is a huge factor. It can limit alot of choices, but that choice itself can be more important than how you make your $$ to support it all.
Leverage who you know as you make choices. Often it is not what you know (particularly at 23) as much as WHO you know. Getting help opening doors is just being smart. Then you have to have the work ethic and bust ass to sell yourself to move on from there, as Lou aptly pointed out.
Good paying hourly jobs with a good pension seem to be going the way of the dinosaur. You better be saving/investing for yourself early. I’m retiring next week after 42 years of rotating shift work. It definitely takes a toll on your health & family life. Better have an understanding partner. Just got home from another 16 hour overtime shift. IMO corporate greed is what is ruining the so many formerly great paying jobs. Take pensions away for the sake of the shareholders. Work employees to the bone because they choose to run understaffed. Apparently it’s cheaper to pay OT than another employees benefits/pension. My 1st big job was on the Iron range in Minnesota. Was one of the 1st laid of when the economy Collapsed the early 80s. After getting a college degree in fisheries biology I found out you can make less in that field full time than a seasonal construction job. Worked summers, nights & weekends to pay my way through without any debt. Almost impossible today. Next was a 10 year stint in a paper mill. Watched government policy destroy the textile & paper industry. Just finishing 23 years as a coal fired power plant control board operator. This country is destroying that industry & our most reliable power sources. This giant winter storm will most likely expose our power grids vulnerability once again. Did you know wind mills emergency shut down when the wind blows too hard? Good thing I don’t have enough life left to destroy another industry I guess. In spite through hard work diligent investing & tons of overtime I’ve lived well & feel fortunate to retire well. I feel sorry for the new guys who won’t have the same opportunities & won’t even get a pension. Good paying American jobs opportunities you can retire from are a fraction of what they were. Too many good jobs went overseas for corporate greed. Many jobs are lower paying service type jobs. The American dream is still out there just not like our parent and grandparents experienced. If I had it to do over I would choose doing what I love over a higher paying hourly job.
I co-own a tax firm here in Colorado. Left a much more lucrative banking job to pursue owning my own company and I really have time in the fall to hunt. Tax seasons are brutal, no way around it. Accounting can lead to a ton of different careers. Highly recommended.
Sorry but that’s the reality of industrial type jobs in this country. Sad that a new guy starting a few years after me does the same work & isn’t even offered a pension.
My job is so unique it wouldn’t apply to someone else. And there’s only eight in my program. But I was so lucky I fell into it as I just work from home and have near full independence of how I use my time. On top of that I travel a five state area so I schedule that to coincide with my hunting & fishing trips to get most of my travel expenses reimbursed. And zero stress.