Bowfreak's Link
If true..... finally a shred of sanity, morality and decemcy.
Leak is obviously an attempt to gain back some sort of momentum for Democrats in the mid-terms.
It won't' work, but it is an admirable low-rent attempt!
Pete
Always amazes me how pundits on both sides refuse to believe in 'backlash'.
If/when SCOTUS does overturn Roe v Wade, and I believe they will at least partially do so, it will galvanize the heck out of liberal women, and probably a lot of middle-of-the-roaders as well.
Personally I'm more concerned about the 'right of privacy' that RvW was based on. Will SCOTUS decide that we do not enjoy any such right? The implications are scary. (For instance, imagine that all your gun purchases are now 'public records' and anyone can publish them.)
Right to privacy is a poor argument relative to roe v wade. You don't perform an abortion in your own home and it has absolutely nothing to do with women's health.
If indeed it is true, and overturned at the federal level, it will flesh out the states that share liberal viewpoints instead of hiding behind the feds skirt.
"Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They're all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you're born, you're on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're [email protected]#!"- George Carlin 1996- (edited out big bad f word for the sissies on here)
Ah, the old "you want rights you're a communist, I want to take your rights my God is freedom" rational
Notice how you didnt actually make an arguement except default to the republican playbook of screaming "communism" when you cant think of anything good to say
Soccer, you are a real piece of work.
You have no shame, the leak is unimportant just like the border, the economy, and the plethora of other failures of this administration.
if the Govt tells people abortion is wrong, the babies are valuable and precious, do that for a decade and people will believe abortion is wrong, babies are valuable and precious
I hope its true - the leaked info says Fed laws won't control abortion, state laws will
That's just one example. How about your health records? Financials?
The ONLY people who need to be responsible for these, are THE PARENTS. If you can't feed 'em, then don't breed 'em. But that's a difficult concept for a "Gimme" Democrats to grasp and and don't expect you to as you're not capable.
This has been and will always be a disingenuous argument; first it draws a false equivalence between caring for the unborn versus believing in the concept of personal responsibility (the parties to the conception; obvious exception being rape).
This argument stems from the belief that one should not be held responsible for one's actions if those actions produce consequences one is not prepared to deal with responsibly. It's the textbook example of passing the buck, in this case not asking but demanding that the taxpayers pick up the tab.
It's couched in the language used because it's a transparent attempt to vilify; it's the stock and trade of the liberal; when the facts don't support an argument drive the argument towards pure emotion.
Sorry, not buying what you're selling.
"No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. "
Bullshit look around poor kids get breakfast and lunch now,free Obamacare,all get Head Start free,who needs food stamps the EBT is everywhere.Free daycare for the high school mommies.
And those that survive to can live in Dem cities and be killed by other Dems.
How long before we can stop playing games and get on with the inevitable split of red/blue states to live the way we want among people who share the same common values???
As far as food stamps and welfare, well, you can thank your local liberal for that one. "Government care is not a necessity, but an evil we must tolerate from time to time."
I know that concept is reach for some of but in the end that’s what it comes down to.
WW and others on here hit the nail on the head ....""The ONLY people who need to be responsible for these, are THE PARENTS."
He still believes there is no problem at the Southern border. Why would anyone listen to anything else he says?
My last duty as a USN Hospital Corpmen in 72 was in Labor/Delivery and unfortunately abortion procedures was part of it. Never forget that the CO's 16 yr old daughter was bought in 2am for the procedure and the suction machine was used and the fetus was disposed of and everyone that was involved was order to keep it unspoken, I was the person that had to deal with all of the end results. This was a vast difference from dealing with a stillborn. Remember the saying that Nixon withdraw from Viet Nam was what his father should have done, not a pleasant time area and coming out as a vet. May the Lord save the Republic.
You might want to go back to my post and re-read this part: " (the parties to the conception; obvious exception being rape)"
You may also want to eschew straw man arguments for awhile as well; no one who's responded to your post or this topic has said anything about forcing the victim of a rape to have the baby.
Finally, you might want to consider investing some time in researching a topic before showing how uniformed about it you are; to begin with the number of abortions performed due to cases of rape or incest is less than 10% of all abortions.
Hopefully you may weigh in again with a post that's worthy of the gravity of the subject; so far you've fallen well short of the mark....
Full outright bans regardless of the life of the mother will be next
I frankly don't understand the hand-wringing. If you don't like what your state does, elect someone else. Or move.
And personally the thought of a "rape exemption" gives me the cold chills. Imagine how many false reports of rape there will be if the only way to get an abortion is to get an exemption for rape . . . .
I really struggle with the overall personal accountability aspect of this issue. I can't imagine that it gets any simpler--if you don't want or can't afford the results, then don't have sex. Seems pretty damn clear cut to me.
Also all murders are homicides but not all homicides are murders.... and some homicides are legal. Durrr
Oklahoma aside this still leaves the vast majority (a bit over 90%) of pregnancies not involving rape or incest; I'd avoid addressing this inconvenient fact if I wanted to keep the argument an emotional one as opposed to one grounded in the facts.
" and some homicides are legal. Durrr"
I hope you're not falling back to the argument many liberals employ by trying to cast those who are against abortion but in favor of capital punishment as hypocritical?
I've had that one tossed my way and I've refrained from laughing at the sheer absurdity out of politeness; my reply to that argument is that if the person can provide an example of a capital crime perpetrated by a fetus I'm open to that discussion.
Murder is in fact murder. Don't twist the meaning with fancy jargon you have no idea how to use...
13% of a population accounting for almost 30% abortions would be considered racist if were blacks be murdered or you were looking at the poverty rate!
I guess some would consider this racist…
How do you go home and go to sleep?
Where do they get doctors like this?
Wouldn’t this make more sense that such a controversial issue could be managed at the lowest level.
States have lost so much with big government and it pays well…
I thought this was a delayed response from someone that has failed since his appointment to SCOTUS!
All pregnancies require a male at some point - so yeah, I'd say men have a rightful say in the matter as well.
Or worse, a stunt by radical libtard activists to push congress to stack the Supreme Court and nuke the filibuster prior to the Dems losing power.
Nothing. Are you incapable of ignoring a thread you have no interest in?
far as i know, no aborted baby ever got the opportunity to bow hunt.
My ex was raped at age 12. Her child was carried to full term and given up for adoption at birth. There are alternatives to abortion.
Will the upswing in first-time voters that are women change the outcome of any political contests this November? We will know in about 185 days.
im fine with just relying on the constitution.
If losing a few seats in congress is the result of stopping the genocide of the unwanted, so be it. Some things are more important than politics.
People are listening to way too much liberal media. This case is from Mississippi, which wants to enact a 15 week term limit maximum on abortion. Even most of the socialistic european countries limit to 12 weeks maximum.
Mississippi also has a trigger law in place which will ban nearly all abortions should Roe be overturned, as do a dozen other States.
pretty sure the constitution gives states that right.
Can't they just pop a pill to prevent getting pregnant? Or have the guy wear a rubber? Or just not screw like rabbits if they don't want to to have an unintended baby? Or take the morning-after pill if they mess up any of the previous instructions???
Or if ALL of that fails... they could have the child and live with their life choices. Or even give the child up for adoption.
How is murdering the unwanted baby the first-best choice for these women???
there are radicals on both sides but the overwhelming number of people that are against abortion are not against birth control.
Nope, we are a Constitutional Republic of federated states. We elect representatives to make laws, but we don't vote on every little thing at the national level, like killing babies or gun ownership. The USSC appears ready to defer to the Constitution on this issue, which either defers to the states or leaves it up to Congress to pass a law one way or the other.
Roe is an interpretation, just like the Causby/Leo USSC interpretations impact corner crossing. Nowhere in the Constitution or the Bible is abortion mentioned.
I never said it didn't. I was responding to Stix's comment about the abortion ban prior to 15 weeks. While that is the law that is at question, a ruling that overturns Roe will have immediate ramifications regarding abortion rights and going further than banning abortion prior to 15 weeks in MS (and other states). He was alluding to laws in Europe being more stringent than MS - if Roe is overturned that will not be the case.
Abortion kills more then the unborn, it just takes decades sometimes.
Lots of things in life sound good at the time, until you do it. Happens to me regularly.
Pray for our country, the unborn, and those burdened with hidden shame, sorrow and regret. There is nothing good that comes from an abortion, it is NOT a joyful thing.
This personifies the true character of this country currently!
As for abortion, I'd grant it for rape/incest cases. And make birth control plentiful for everyone. With that, would all democrats then be on board??? Or are those concerns just empty talking points?
The democrats don’t care about women. This whole thing is about the democrats and their planned parenthood MONEY. Why anyone would admit supporting the left and their drama filled false outrage is beyond me. Of course, recently, the bowlibs haven’t even been as outspoken as they typically are. It must be embarrassing to support pure stupidity in a regular basis?!
I don't think "This personifies the true character of this country currently" is accurate, it personifies our government corruption and direction.
There’s a first, I agree!
Quite certain that religious doctrine, or the tenets of religious doctrine, were used as the premise for our Constitution and system of government...
Like his reputation is unimportant! Once again, humanity shows its ugliness!
less than 1% of all abortions are because of rape. ask any "pro choice" advocate if the only abortions that should be available are for victims of rape and youll find out real quick that the rape thing is a red herring.
KSflatlander's Link
MOST people would agree in the case of rape that carrying to full term would cause PTSD that would bring in other issues and complications.
And, the only thing that polls show are the results of the selected audience to provide the results sought after...
Norma vacillated between pro-life and pro-choice over the remainder of her life getting baptized and joining an evangelical church. On her death bed, she recanted and claimed the pro-life folks "paid her off" to join them. "Baby Roe", Shelley Lynn Thornton, chose not to meet Ms. McCorvey before her death because she suspected Ms. McCorvey only wanted to meet her for publicity.
Fast forward and there have been in excess of 60 MILLION abortions since 1973 and that ruling. It's hard to believe this thrice impregnated woman with mental and emotional trauma was the spark for so many abortions since.
Although, the federal government may send the issue back to the states to be decided by the people of each state, we have been involved in the single largest genocide in human history and most of us don't blink an eye over it. I'm trying to come up with a math formula for the percentage of incest/rape out of the 60 MILLION??????????????
it's a red herring in that it is an excuse pro choice advocates give for wanting abortions to be legal but when you take that off the table they start adding other things like health of the mother...which is also very rare... first trimester...etc...just like you just did.
so would you be willing to make all abortions due to rape and a verifiable risk to the mothers life legal...and all others illegal?
Sounds crazy right?
Yes, and I would focus on preventative measures (abundant, readily available, and free).
so you would be ok with 98+% of all abortions being illegal? if thats true, you definitely do not represent the vast majority of pro choice advocates.
No such thing.
Yes
With such extra ordinary measures he became a healthy boy, athlete teenager, great soccer player. Now almost 40 he fights an estranged wife for custody of his three children that she really never wanted. Sure they could have used birth control, she could have had several abortions but I doubt he would give those kids up for anything. After all who the heck would know more about the sanctity of life than someone who really wasn't supposed to be here??
Unecessary abortions happen all the time. In my opinion they should be rare. Life is just that precious. What concerns me more is the leak. Yet one more attempt to circumvent the American system by woke idiots, thugs and someone thinking they are above the law. Any law clerk or other SCOUTS employee signed non-disclosure agreement upon becoming an employee. They need to be identified, charged and prosecuted. End of story.
we agree then...do you think that can be said of the majority of the those who consider themselves pro-choice?
I can see that happening on almost all fronts. Until we get to the murdering of an innocent child. That is where evil steps in. And, as grasshopper noted, that is the burden many suffer through until it destroys them.
FWIW, the Bible is very clear on abortion. In more then one way. Saying different doesn’t change that. Murder is forbidden in the commandments. And, there is zero doubt when life begins. Abortion Is not debatable on any front if basing it on biblical law.
No, it isn't. Numbers 5:11-31 describes the test of the unfaithful wife, which involves giving a woman an abortion.
Exodus 21:22-24 says that if a woman is struck and miscarries the offender should be fined. Whereas, if a woman is struck and she dies the perpetrator forfeits his life too. Clearly there are different value judgements placed on the woman and her fetus, and the fetus is not treated like a living human being.
Plenty of prominent Christians have struggled as to answering the question of when life begins, or how to correlate the spiritual and biological development of a fetus. Saint Augustine felt the abortion of a fetus with limbs and shape was murder, but prior to that, it likely wasn't. As he said, "Now who is there that is not rather disposed to think that unformed abortions perish, like seeds that have never fructified?"
The Bible provided no guidance and provides zero answers on the question of when a human life begins.
Furthermore, murder may indeed be forbidden in the Commandments, but from Jesus' contemporaries to English common law and beyond, abortion of a pre-quickened fetus was deemed okay and abortion of a fetus post-quickening was not treated as murder.
Normal people are opposed to killing other innocent humans.
Normal people believe a person's health choices should be their own.
Whether you look at an unborn child as a human or as a lump of cells generally dictates the stance on abortion.
Pro-life folks don't oppose a woman getting a tumor removed.
Pro-choice people don't oppose requiring a burden on parents if it means saving the life of that parents toddler.
I was sort of ambivalent in my youth about abortion. Maturing and seeing my kids ultrasounds and the unexplainable feeling when you hold your child for the first time cemented my views.
We aren't solving this issue any time soon.
God taking the life of a child is not an abortion. This is what happens in the test for an unfaithful wife. God takes other lives in the OT too. They weren't abortions either. Man does not have this right, only God does.
I have no idea what you are claiming with regard to the Exodus verses.
Wonder what St. Augustine would think if he saw a 4D Ultrasound or could listen to the heartbeat of a baby that is yet to have limbs?
God strictly prohibits murder. Abortion is murder.
Stix's Link
Seeing as the point of viability was labeled as 24 weeks per Roe and that >99% of abortions occur at <21 weeks (with 93% occurring before week 13), what exactly is it that you think is being contorted?
in terms of the law, the bible is irrelevant...the constitution is not.
... .
"The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn." -Pastor Dave Barnhart, 2018-
Now move our goal posts...
(Literally dont care what your religion says)
I think it’s easy to let our emotions concentrate on the “murder” part while not paying attention to what type of life these kids likely will be subjected to.
I don’t like late term abortions as I do believe you should be able to make a decision within a month or two once you know your pregnant.
Rape cases def need to be able to get abortions in my opinion.
It’s not fair that the males can just run off with no repercussions after knocking someone up!
I think most sane people are okay with abortion with restrictions. Ie.... before 20 weeks or for the reasons stated above
Regardless, what you think, this is not holding women down! How about a little personal responsibility.
Look at the numbers this is not a bunch of sixteen year olds and rape victims. Also, there are a disproportionate number of African Americans where 13% of the population accounts for 27% of all abortions.
Remember Ms Sanger was an advocate of population control and abortions have been very effective against this marginalized group!
Where is all the love for humanity? Do you actually advocate the killing of the unborn! Would not mourn if you lost a dog with pups?
Would you not mourn the pups? What’s the difference?
I know it’s a complicated issue but when you get right down to it and look at it for brass tacks it’s a real simple question? Do you want a Society that condones and even advocates for this type of behavior or do you want one tries to manage the carnage!
Yet I hear few suggestions on how to MAKE the man responsible
Fix that, and I’ll be open to stricter abortion rules.
Its fairly simple I dont consider a 15 week developing human fetus/Embroy a actual human or baby. Is it alive? Sure is it going to be a baby soon? Absolutely. does it at that stage of development deserve the same rights, freedoms, and and protections as an 8 month developeding baby or a birthed one? Nope. Simple... no.
And if my dog miscarried at 1/4th of the way to having pups or I had to abort to save its life. Than I would do it in a heart beat. Honestly not really comparable to humans. Considering to get the domesticated dog early man culled 90% of offspring due to undesirable traits(aggression)
8 month old humans can't survive on their own. Why not move the time frame out to say 12 years. Give the kid some time to prove itself. If it looks like an undesirable human "abort " it then.
Of course I know that is insane, but so is murdering an unborn human being simply because you don't want it!!!
Democrats have learned threats, riots, violence and intimidation are way more effective than the ballot box.
Sasquatch, men have not been part the legal equation since R vs W. Sadly, the ball falls in her court! She is the one with the final word!
Prior to the legalization of abortions shotgun weddings were extremely popular especially amongst the African American community.
This remained true until babies became profitable. Don’t worry poor whites have broken this code too!
Soccer, grey matter is used when things are not black and white. If it’s not a baby at fifteen weeks then it’s not a baby at twenty one and so on!
Use that thing at the end of your neck man, instead of just echoing the mantra!
ESPECIALLY, if I had my way with that too, if we can prove them guilty of killing someone than I say we kill them. Double homicide wouldn’t matter, dead is dead. Those type of things only matter in our weak ass justice system that started going down the drain as soon as we grew emotionally attached to everything
“If the 13% equates to 27% of the abortions”
Nobody else is killing their babies out of race hate, it’s the MOTHERS choices! That sounds like a culture problem not a race problem.
Isn’t that important, I would like to think a liberal Democrat would like to take cake of large part of its voting base.
However, it’s their personal choice and their culture, I’m sure not going to push for laws to protect one specific race from themselves.
what if a pregnant woman is attacked and beaten. She lives but her unborn baby dies...then what? murder?
So you’re saying you are OK with an abortion as long as it’s early enough, right? Because that’s what the “morning after” pill does.
Seems to me…
It’s horribly convenient to label abortion “genocide“ because it disproportionately “affects” African-American women… But on the other hand… There is incontrovertible evidence that women who have children at a relatively early age and as single mothers are overwhelmingly likely to end up living below the poverty line. So essentially, we are saying that it’s wrong to deprive these children of life, but it’s OK to sentence them to a life of poverty. So (JMO) George Carlin had a point. It’s terribly convenient to write him off as “just a comedian“ when he is using his profession as an Artist to make a point that cuts straight to the bone. But he was not wrong.
Again, one man’s opinion… Getting an abortion (or NOT getting an abortion) has got to be about the absolutely most difficult and horrifying decision that a person would ever have to make, perhaps short of being a high-ranking military officer sending troops into a no-win scenario or someone who literally has his thumb on the big red button that could trigger the end of the world.
Now… A couple of guys have posted about women who were raped and who chose to carry to term. That was their choice, as it should be. I am certain that the children who were born as a result of those decisions are eternally grateful. But that was the decision made by a woman who had the Right to choose what was right FOR HER. Eliminating an abortion as an option for a woman who has been raped is no more humane than forcing her to have one.
Let’s not forget that getting pregnant is the most dangerous thing that most women ever do. Carrying and delivering a child has undeniable, permanent consequences for a woman’s body. Basically nothing is ever the same, and forcing a woman to go through that after she has already been raped is just another violation of the sanctity of her body. To argue that the psychological impact of that takes a back-seat to ANYTHING is to deny the humanity of the innocent victim of an act of violence.
The trouble is… If you leave a loophole for rape, then you would have to be a complete idiot to not foresee a tremendous spike in reports of rape, if that is the only non-medical justification for receiving abortion services. And if a woman has been impregnated as a result of a rape, then it naturally follows that the police should rightly be granted access to genetic reporting on the cells of the aborted fetus. In which case the “rapist” could be identified on the basis of DNA. In which case any man who had impregnated a woman (who then elected to use rape as justification for getting an abortion) could then be prosecuted and sent prison for rape when the act was in fact entirely consensual. Whether he knew she was seeking an an abortion or not. Because at that point the woman would have to choose to recant the story that she had been raped (and face prosecution for having secured abortion services under false pretenses) or watch an innocent man go to prison.
If you are the father of a young man (or you yourself are a young man) and that does not scare the ever-loving shit out of you, I don’t know what it’s going to take to get through to you.
When I was in high school… about 40 years ago… in our minds, at the time, abortion was basically perceived as a get out of jail free card for an “oops“ kind of a pregnancy which could completely derail a young person‘s life. Not surprisingly, seeing the ultrasounds of my own children when they were no larger than my thumb really changed my perspective on that.
I know one couple who learned that they had conceived and anencephalic fetus, and they chose to carry to term. That “baby“ died very quickly, as everyone knew that it would, and the parents saw fit to allow their virtual “stillborn” to become an organ donor, which spared the lives of several other children and certainly had an enormous impact on the quality of life for a number of others.
I know another couple who have a daughter who is affected by a condition which typically leads to an infant which never progresses beyond infancy and which becomes susceptible to seizures of an ever increasing frequency and magnitude until the child dies at about the age of five. Children like that are incredibly expensive for the parents to support, not uncommonly leading the parents into bankruptcy, and the children never enjoy anything resembling a decent quality of life, but are constantly enduring pain and suffering. In this particular case, the afflicted child was their first-born. A second child with the same condition would almost certainly have ruined them, both financially and as a couple.
Where I cannot help but to come down on this sort of thing is that no one other than the individual(s) in question has any concept of the totality of the circumstances which the mother and the prospective child are likely to face. Therefore, no one else is in a position to dictate what is the best option available.
This country was founded on the principle that the public should not be ruled according to the religious convictions of the government.
It’s Complicated.
JMO, pray as thou wilt…. But recognize the limitations of your knowledge, and leave the Omniscience to God. That position is filled. If there IS a God who frowns on abortion, then know that the aborted are in His hands and will never know fear nor want, and leave it to Him to sort the details of the women who choose abortion as the least awful alternative. It is not up to us to know the right thing for someone else.
That’s one thing I will never understand. “Pro-Life” folks would like everyone to perceive “pro-choice” thinkers as “pro-abortion”. Which is CRAP. No decent human being WANTS for ANYONE to feel the need for an abortion, but we DO live in an imperfect world.
Sorry to end on a Random note, but bottom line is, not everything can (or should) be under govt control, and this is one of those things which should NOT be.
Because they *can*. This has been the 'social' GOP's plan for decades. Install cocial-conservative judges at all levels. Mitch McConnell end-gamed it when he rejected Obama's nominee for SCOTUS, then maneuvered Trump into nominating three anti-abortion Justices. After that it was just a matter of waiting for a case to make its way up the ladder. And here we are.
(And Trump calls McConnell a 'loser'? Naive pawn was over his head from Day 1.)
We can keep moving the goal post if you want, I’ll keep playing.
In a just world, that slimy POS who would do that should be hung for the world to see! If it’s ok for her to shoot him in self defense, it should be ok for her to shoot him next week! What he did hasn’t changed so why should his punishment?
Ya see, I’m not all emotional and soft on criminals, doing so is why we have the problems we do today.
So, again to me the baby/pregnant part shouldn’t matter. He should be tried for what he was attempting to do. If he was beating on a woman I’m gonna assume he wanted to kill her, just because he failed shouldn’t change his punishment. So yea, let’s try him for murder, but not for the unborn baby, or do so also. I really don’t care, what I care about is taking low life’s out the gene pool. THAT should be our goals and concentrations more so than abortion rights. We have bigger problems in this world.
We can keep moving the goal post if you want, I’ll keep playing.
In a just world, that slimy POS who would do that should be hung for the world to see! If it’s ok for her to shoot him in self defense, it should be ok for her to shoot him next week! What he did hasn’t changed so why should his punishment?
Ya see, I’m not all emotional and soft on criminals, doing so is why we have the problems we do today.
So, again to me the baby/pregnant part shouldn’t matter. He should be tried for what he was attempting to do. If he was beating on a woman I’m gonna assume he wanted to kill her, just because he failed shouldn’t change his punishment. So yea, let’s try him for murder, but not for the unborn baby, or do so also. I really don’t care, what I care about is taking low life’s out the gene pool. THAT should be our goals and concentrations more so than abortion rights. We have bigger problems in this world.
We can keep moving the goal post if you want, I’ll keep playing.
In a just world, that slimy POS who would do that should be hung for the world to see! If it’s ok for her to shoot him in self defense, it should be ok for her to shoot him next week! What he did hasn’t changed so why should his punishment?
Ya see, I’m not all emotional and soft on criminals, doing so is why we have the problems we do today.
So, again to me the baby/pregnant part shouldn’t matter. He should be tried for what he was attempting to do. If he was beating on a woman I’m gonna assume he wanted to kill her, just because he failed shouldn’t change his punishment. So yea, let’s try him for murder, but not for the unborn baby, or do so also. I really don’t care, what I care about is taking low life’s out the gene pool. THAT should be our goals and concentrations more so than abortion rights. We have bigger problems in this world.
What a criminal should get charged should not coincide with what/how a woman can do with her body within limits.
A woman choosing an early term abortion shouldn’t be compared to a what a criminal will be charged
Laws entrenched in ambiguity makes little or no sense.
if it was "her body," wouldn't it have her dna? what other organ or clump of cells in "her body" has completely different dna?
What are you even getting at.
Are you one of the supporters of mass undocumented immigration while also living in a nice suburb or gated community being hidden from it?
If you are so anti abortion are you adopting a bunch of babies? Put your money where your mouth is
Easy to tell people how they should live when it don’t directly affect you.
My taxes pay for many abandoned children and children in poverty. I don’t wish to pay for more.
Make all parents liable to support their children and I’ll get on board. The cart don’t go before the horse.
ROFL... do you not see the contradiction and irony in that statement?
You tell me not to make black and white statements and then literally make a black and white statement about they very thing I had made a statement on... the real irony is that my statement wasn't black and white whereas yours was.
lol
a baby is either a separate human being or it isn't. If it has it's own dna, it's not part of a womans body. i never told you how to live. i never even said whether i am for or against all abortions. im just saying that if you are ok with abortion, at least be honest about the fact that you are ok with killing another human being. i just don't happen to think the federal government has any business in it one way or another. that is up to the states. thats what our constitution says. i do believe if a person chooses to have an abortion, legal or not, they will ultimately answer for it. that is my religious belief, and it may not be yours or anyone elses. that is a completely different matter. and no, i am 100% against all illegal immigration.
I bet when we helped in the Great Depression people weren’t buying prime meals like boiled seafood with their food stamps and driving away in new vehicles.
And no I’m not saying kill babies for my pocket. I’m saying they both track together, you wanna get more strict on abortions, start by being more strict on people being responsible for their actions!
How far you wanna take that since everything has to be played in literation.
Now women are just incubators?
Doesnt the consititution say that anything not specifically identified in the document is left up to the states to decide.
I agree, let's do what's right by the constitution.
I disagree with corax's assertion that becoming pregnant is the most dangerous thing a femaie could do. She and her partner have options available to prevent this.
Raising a child and being a mother is the most dangerous, yet important thing a female can do. Through her nuturing, a product of humanity will set the direction of the future.
Happy Mother's day to all mom's who understand this but made the selfless choice to raise a child anyway.
as much as youd like to put words in other peoples mouths, its not going to work. let me make it very simple. the constitution says it's up to the states to decide. if the states (people) decide that it is legal, it is legal. when it comes to the law, individual religious beliefs are irrelevant. in the end, i believe we will all have to answer for the things weve done. at that point, what man said was legal will be irrelevant. i also believe that there is no sin that cannot be forgiven. mine arent any better or worse than anyone elses.
Did I once mention states or federal?
What about a very young girl who has not been taught about birth control, or even sex in general? Teenage boys are predatory as **** and just as ignorant of, and oblivious to 'consequences'.
//// The movie 2000 Mules dropped. Watch it.
so would we kill the mother that decided to kill her child, the doctor that actually killed the child, or both?
How many embryos were to become the discovers of the cure for cancer? Only God knows.
I shot a cow elk one winter, and when we dressed her, discovered she had an early developing fetus in her. I felt awful. I immediately thought about the potential impact of that one being a herd or satellite bull! How many could he have sired along the way? I no longer hunt late season cow or antlerless for that reason. How is it not instilled in everyone?
if not, other than size what does a child contain that an embryo doesnt...and when exactly does one become the other?
Should we come up with a way to monitor when ppl have unprotected sex to then start restricting them because they carrying?
See, these things can spiral into ridiculousness.
And one thing for sure, most people commenting are guaranteed to never have to make that decision, unless they believe men can get pregnant too.
12 weeks is just a little to late if I had to vote on it today.
Start your own bow hunting site. Do you complain because McDonalds sells thing you aren’t interested in?
it really only spirals into ridiculousness when people try to nuance their way around the fact that when an egg is fertilized it is a human being. at that point it is only a matter of stage of development. thats not to say that laws cant and wont be made by that make terminating that human being legal, but in our system, that's up to the people of each state to decide. the us constitution provides for that. that is completely separate and apart from the belief that we will have to answer for those decisions some day...the us constitution provides for that too.
Bidens silence is deafening and pathetic .
That’s hardly a “fact.” A woman isn’t even pregnant at this point, yet you’re saying a fertilized egg is a human being? The probability that a fertilized egg actually makes it to term is less that 50%. Many birth control products work after an egg is fertilized by preventing it from implanting in the uterus. Guessing you have a problem with anyone on the pill, Plan B, or IUDs then Ricky?
Now for the kicker 63% make it full term if they make it the first two weeks. That’s a delta 13% which cast significant doubts on early in the term pregnancies.
I have not made a statement saying that abortion should be outlawed but I do have serious issues against the argument and “my body my choice “ is nothing more than cliche that rally’s the troops but is fundamentally flawed on its own merit.
Now for the kicker 63% make it full term if they make it the first two weeks. That’s a delta 13% which cast significant doubts on early in the term pregnancies.
I have not made a statement saying that abortion should be outlawed but I do have serious issues against the argument and “my body my choice “ is nothing more than cliche that rally’s the troops but is fundamentally flawed on its own merit.
not necessarily...the pill is designed to prevent ovulation so there is no egg to fertilize...but it doesn't always work that way. plan b is an oral contraceptive and designed to prevent fertilization and is different than the abortion pill...ru486w...which terminates an actual pregnancy. many people think are the same. not even all iuds work the same. some are designed to prevent fertilization and some are designed to prevent implantation.
but you're right...that's why I said what I did in my last post.
Hormones in birth control pills prevent pregnancy by:
1. Stopping or reducing ovulation (the release of an egg from an ovary).
2. Thickening cervical mucus to keep sperm from entering the uterus.
3. Thinning the lining of the uterus so that a fertilized egg is less likely to attach.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/drugs/3977-birth-control-the-pill
plan b is an oral contraceptive and designed to prevent fertilization and is different than the abortion pill.
When taken correctly (within 72 hours of a contraceptive accident or unprotected sex), Plan B® works by:
Temporarily stopping the release of an egg from the ovary (ovulation)
Preventing fertilization
Preventing a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus by changing the uterine lining
https://planb.ca/en/how-plan-b-works/
not even all iuds work the same. some are designed to prevent fertilization and some are designed to prevent implantation.
I agree with you there.
So again, do you feel birth control that may prevent implantation of a fertilized egg is equivalent to abortion?
so again, that is why I said what i did in my earlier post.
"it really only spirals into ridiculousness when people try to nuance their way around the fact that when an egg is fertilized it is a human being. at that point it is only a matter of stage of development. thats not to say that laws cant and wont be made by that make terminating that human being legal, but in our system, that's up to the people of each state to decide. the us constitution provides for that. that is completely separate and apart from the belief that we will have to answer for those decisions some day...the us constitution provides for that too."
my personal belief is that anything that is intended to remove an egg that has been fertilized would be an abortion. that is completely irrelevant to who makes law and how the laws are to be made in a representative democracy...other than to say that I have one vote in the process. beyond that, my religious belief is that we will all ultimately answer for every decision that we have made, and that there is no sin that cannot be forgiven...ymmv
I am for stopping government interference in reproduction, medical decisions, gun ownership, drug use, etc.....
If a birthing person kills it's baby it's their cross to bear.
Especially with contraceptives and other things available today.
BLUF democrats are just securing their base for midterms.
I’m 100% with you, gflight. I’d say that I do think Roe was sound as abortion was not illegal prior to quickening when the Founder’s drafted the Constitution, and even after quickening it was treated essentially as a misdemeanor, so I do think there is historical context for the right to an abortion prior to some cutoff related to gestational age. Putting the constitutionality aside, I very much agree with the sentiment around stopping government interference. Overturning Roe revokes the reproductive rights you’re supportive of and allows for a whole host of additional government interference. While I support the Federal government staying out of our business for the most part, I support State governments doing the same.
Gflight, I see you’ve not put a lot of thought in that answer because she’s not thought of any of the repercussions of which would come from the government staying out of gun ownership medical choices.
“If a birthing person kills it's baby it's their cross to bear.
Hmm…
Then lets say that unborn children identify as free ranging wolves, and the HSUS will spend millions protecting them. Win-win for everyone. :)
Pro choice is leveling the playing field!
Women want to be players too!
Quite disturbing seeing how many people truly fall for the ridiculous crap.
Mankind will be the cause of mankind’s demise, we are lost
Tell me again how george Carlin is wrong just because he's a comedian? You cant make this stuff up. The irony is relentless
soccern23ny's Link
Fyi birds take care of themselves not via gods
Ie... early bird gets the worm. Not delusional bird who prays gets worms magically from heaven
The proverbial POS just cannot help himself!
That’s what gets me with today’s thinking! They are constantly touting organic yet they choose manufacturers milk over momma’s!
Ingredients and preservatives in it are used for things like killing algae in pools.
https://www.breastfeedingplace.com/exploring-ingredients-similac-infant-formula/
Hey Soccer. . . . a person who hides behind a fake registration and adds nothing to a discussion besides childish mocking is worthless. You should just leave here.
The fake registrations used to annoy me; however, I now see a different side to. When people who disagree with you and Google to find any derogatory information they can, and then post it as happened to a person who had a 52 year old criminal violation posted, I give it a pass today.
You want people to not mock your religion? Stop using your god/beliefs as a reason why 'xyz' should or shouldn't happen for our society. Great if that's how you truly feel but it doesnt mean diddle to anyone else or should it carry any weight when debating such matters. And if decide to tell the word that 'xyz' needs to happen because your god says so, your god/religion doesnt get a free pass from ridicule/mockery/dismissiveness.
I disrespect your religion no more than I would Islam, taoism, some who practice cannibalism, or believes in human ritual sacrifice. There all on the same playing field.
You wouldn't let/want the tenets of other religions shaping your life so stop trying to use yours to shape mine.
That is juicy on so many levels…. ;)
azelkhntr's Link
Religion : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
