Politics
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
MQQSE 13-Jun-22
Jim Moore 14-Jun-22
DanaC 14-Jun-22
TGbow 14-Jun-22
Missouribreaks 14-Jun-22
TGbow 14-Jun-22
Hunts_with_stick 14-Jun-22
Catscratch 14-Jun-22
Dano 14-Jun-22
70lbDraw 14-Jun-22
wyobullshooter 14-Jun-22
BowSniper 14-Jun-22
Grey Ghost 14-Jun-22
WV Mountaineer 14-Jun-22
LINK 14-Jun-22
[email protected] 14-Jun-22
bentstick54 14-Jun-22
wyobullshooter 14-Jun-22
Dano 14-Jun-22
PECO2 14-Jun-22
HDE 14-Jun-22
Will 14-Jun-22
Dano 14-Jun-22
Beendare 14-Jun-22
Jeff Durnell 14-Jun-22
Dano 14-Jun-22
Dale06 14-Jun-22
Brotsky 14-Jun-22
spike78 14-Jun-22
Will tell 14-Jun-22
Catscratch 14-Jun-22
Will 14-Jun-22
Rocky D 14-Jun-22
TGbow 14-Jun-22
[email protected] 14-Jun-22
12yards 14-Jun-22
LINK 14-Jun-22
Dano 14-Jun-22
azelkhntr 14-Jun-22
DanaC 14-Jun-22
Dano 14-Jun-22
Ziek 14-Jun-22
DanaC 14-Jun-22
Michael 14-Jun-22
Dano 14-Jun-22
greenmountain 14-Jun-22
Dano 14-Jun-22
TGbow 14-Jun-22
spike78 14-Jun-22
ohiohunter 14-Jun-22
Dano 14-Jun-22
Ziek 14-Jun-22
spike78 14-Jun-22
Dano 14-Jun-22
spike78 14-Jun-22
Dano 14-Jun-22
TGbow 14-Jun-22
Z Barebow 14-Jun-22
Buffalo1 14-Jun-22
TGbow 14-Jun-22
spike78 15-Jun-22
Rut Nut 15-Jun-22
azelkhntr 15-Jun-22
Dano 15-Jun-22
Hackbow 15-Jun-22
Dano 15-Jun-22
[email protected] 15-Jun-22
Supernaut 16-Jun-22
Dano 16-Jun-22
Rocky D 16-Jun-22
gflight 16-Jun-22
DanaC 16-Jun-22
2Wild Bill 16-Jun-22
DanaC 16-Jun-22
LBshooter 16-Jun-22
Ziek 16-Jun-22
2Wild Bill 16-Jun-22
Rocky D 16-Jun-22
Old Reb 16-Jun-22
TGbow 16-Jun-22
Ziek 16-Jun-22
[email protected] 16-Jun-22
Dano 16-Jun-22
DanaC 16-Jun-22
Michael 16-Jun-22
[email protected] 16-Jun-22
Ziek 16-Jun-22
[email protected] 16-Jun-22
Old Reb 16-Jun-22
Old Reb 16-Jun-22
[email protected] 16-Jun-22
DanaC 16-Jun-22
TGbow 16-Jun-22
[email protected] 16-Jun-22
WV Mountaineer 16-Jun-22
Ziek 16-Jun-22
Dano 16-Jun-22
TGbow 16-Jun-22
2Wild Bill 16-Jun-22
Woods Walker 16-Jun-22
DanaC 16-Jun-22
Old Reb 16-Jun-22
Jethro 16-Jun-22
TGbow 16-Jun-22
Rocky D 16-Jun-22
Rocky D 16-Jun-22
From: MQQSE
13-Jun-22
Bowsite used to excite and interest me. I could hop on my old PC, dial up online and see what was going on in the archery world. Well, maybe it wasn’t that long ago, but you get the idea.

What I do know is that it wasn’t that long ago when almost every post was relevant to the sport.

Now I feel like I have to sort through posts about all the crap I am trying to get away from. Just to find something I want to read.

I know the country is a mess and I don’t want to discuss more about that topic. What I want to figure out is if maybe Pat can offer a way to sort all the political bu?lsjt out so we can get back to the real Bowsite and If others agree with that idea?

Am I the only one who is getting sick of seeing Bowsite turn into a political forum?

I’m all for standing up for our freedoms, but I just miss the way I remember it.

14-Jun-22
I am in my last year before retiring from teaching for 32 years at a community college. To me the political threads are necessary. In 30 plus years I have witnessed college culture go from professionally respectful to an attempt to silence and cancel all dissenting voices against liberal orthodoxy.

I am convinced that the loony left wants to eliminate all hunting. Like it or not, we have to do better to protect what we love, IMO. If folks don’t want the politics, just sift thru the threads. I hope the antis see there are many of us remaining that will not go away silently.

I recognize some of my threads on occasion might be annoying. But guys, the changes I have seen in 30 years are not subtle, the social engineering lunacy these folks advocate includes no guns and no hunting. If some annoying threads help us remember how important our votes are, so be it.

I understand many will disagree, so my apologies in advance for my part.

From: Jim Moore
14-Jun-22
Not to be a smart ass or anything like that, but there are 17 other forums on here besides this one. The I'm with HFW on this one, I think there needs to be a forum like this one to vent amongst like-minded people. Some of the stuff gets a bit crazy at times. I hardly post at all anymore, but I read a few of the threads to see what folks are talking about.

I've been on here since this was a BB on Prodigy. My first post ever was on what is now called the Leatherwall. That has been a few years. Seems to be something for everyone on this site. Pick and choose what you like to read/respond to, ignore the rest.

From: DanaC
14-Jun-22
"What I want to figure out is if maybe Pat can offer a way to sort all the political bu?lsjt out.."

. .

Unfortunately, 'clicks' pay the rent. The more clicks on a topic, or the more replies etc. the more advertising revenue the site gets. When you see a thread about a new release get 8 replies, but a political topic gets 700, 'follow the money'. Yeah, the pile-ons get tiresome, but unless the politics-haters are all willing to pony up a dollar a week, it will continue.

From: TGbow
14-Jun-22
Frank, well said. Unfortunately, we live in a world where hunting, along with Liberty, is threatened and I feel like most of the issues are tied in in one way or another. The leftist are serious about their agenda and to think they are not a threat is naive IMO. I can see where the OP is coming from but I think most of the political topics are informative inspite of the negatives.

14-Jun-22
Hunting is not a federal right, it is a privilege. Privileges can be revoked at any time. Yes, some states have a "right to hunt" law but that is a feel good law and not really factual. Hunters were duped by local and state politicians, which is easy. One can only hunt if others, including the federal government, say there is a season for you to hunt. You DO NOT have a right to hunt unless others, including voters, determine there are seasons you can hunt. Get this reality through your heads and hunting becomes very political.

14-Jun-22
everything, especially hunting, has a political component. if you are a hunter and you ignore that you are doing so at your own peril...and eventual demise.

From: TGbow
14-Jun-22
Hunting is as natural as sex. Granted, we need common sense regulations to helpkeep the game population healthy. The government claims to grant us a lot of things that are really Good given rights...or should be. The Right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. ,The government can pass seat belt laws, ect, but does that mean they should? I pay for the vehicle, the tag n and whatever taxes go ong with it.. We are way beyond basic common sense laws in today's world.

14-Jun-22
I like it, good way to find out what else is going on that I might not be aware of. Good way to connected with like minded people. Good way to stay in the know.

From: Catscratch
14-Jun-22
Lol, I'm one of the KS guys who wishes things could go back the way they were. One thing I've learned from BS is to "get over it, they ain't going back".

Sort through the threads or find other avenues. I'm member to 4 other hunting forums that have virtually 0 political threads. In fact BS is the only forum I frequent for politics instead of hunting.

From: Dano
14-Jun-22
I think I have heard they had a political forum of sorts here and cancel culture got it cancelled. Is that correct?

Dano

From: 70lbDraw
14-Jun-22
As I recall, people pissed and moaned about certain topics on the community forum as well.

I see your point tho… it pisses me off to see a Subway in a gas station. Sandwiches have absolutely nothing to do with petroleum distribution. Just sayin…

14-Jun-22
I’m with ya MQQSE. It’s like sitting around the campfire at hunting camp. The last thing I want to talk about is politics. I miss the old Bowsite too, but like someone said, it ain’t going back.

From: BowSniper
14-Jun-22
We have 17 different campfires here. Click and join in on any conversation you enjoy. One of them might be ugly politics... but even that can be relevant to hunting (land access, gas prices, gun control, covid travel mandates, etc.)

From: Grey Ghost
14-Jun-22
I’m guilty of participating in many political threads. That said, I’ve grown to realize they are nothing more than a bunch of guys preaching to the choir. I know some people need confirmation of their biases, but in reality these political threads aren’t changing anyone’s opinions. They are mostly just circle jerks, with a few regular dissenters who receive the bulk of the wrath from the rest of the crowd. So the threads aren’t really accomplishing anything other than clicks for Pat’s website.

I wish some of the political junkies would channel their time and efforts towards people with a different mindset than their own. That’s truly the only way to make a difference.

I plan to practice what I preach. This will be my last political post on Bowsite. I may occasionally participate in a few hunting related threads, but that’s it.

Get outdoors and enjoy the blessings our creator gave to us boys. Always look for the bright side of life. Be positive and accepting of those who differ from you, because without diversity this would be a boring world.

Im out

Matt

14-Jun-22
Missouri, that might be the reality government is trying to portray. But, no one is going to beg for the right to kill food. No one.

From: LINK
14-Jun-22
POLITICS, END OF VACCINE MANDATES, ROAD TO OMAHA…

It only takes a little grey matter to know what a topic is about without opening it. I could tell you what each of these threads was about just by reading the title. I agree it would be nice to have their own category but if I don’t want to read them, I don’t open them.

14-Jun-22
It's not hard to ignore topics

14-Jun-22
WV x2

14-Jun-22
LINK, it would be nice if it were that simple. Problem is, it seems that even threads that are actually about hunting eventually turn into a political shit show.

From: Dano
14-Jun-22
GGutshot 25 this Gator 07,

Your coming over broken and distorted GG25.

Say again GGutshot 25, your tapping out from the guy you voted for and the mess we will have to clean up, again, Over?

My ears must be deceiving me. We have succeeded in the hearts and minds game one Liberal at a time.

Gator 07 out.

Dano

From: PECO2
14-Jun-22
Go to the leatherwall. Yes, it is stick bow hunting but still bow hunting. No politics over there.

From: HDE
14-Jun-22
Well, if you want topics about bowhunting to stay on bowhunting and you want them to be constructive, then whenever someone posts about what type of mechanical broadhead to use, don't post up "ain't no way in hell I'll ever use a mechanical, COC for me only". Because, nobody really cares about your disdain for a mechanical on a mechanical thread.

A post about [bow]hunting laced with opinionated emotion is really not that different than political post or thread...

From: Will
14-Jun-22
I really appreciate GG's post above, and think Ill take his example as advice and try to go the same route.

That said, the Community Forum was good for this stuff. The main page stayed hunting oriented and the CF ranged from how to make your own bacon to how to pride in a fun vacation with the family to political rambles/debates. It probably got to hot at times the 3-4 years prior to it getting axed... But perhaps that would be good - some form of CF again?

From: Dano
14-Jun-22
The Wokes got their way and it went into the ether.

Dano

From: Beendare
14-Jun-22
Unfortunately, There is politics in everything…even bowhunting.

From: Jeff Durnell
14-Jun-22
It's trying to metastasize into the Leatherwall too.

From: Dano
14-Jun-22
Well, the Socialists have basically driven out bow hunting in western EU.

You better believe it was Politics that got rid of hunt with bow and arrow there.

First get rid of guns, then rid hunting opportunity's only for the elites. Then, get rid of Archery hunting completely as barbaric!

Ask Great Britian.

Dano

From: Dale06
14-Jun-22
What 4nolz said above. Ignor them if you don’t like them. And quit whining.

From: Brotsky
14-Jun-22
Awwww the Bowsite echo chamber, where we can all scratch our itches and not change a damn thing. Nirvana.

From: spike78
14-Jun-22
In 2030 when the elites go to ban hunting THEN we will all be talking politics.

From: Will tell
14-Jun-22
I always wonder about the folks who talk about people that have different beliefs and have different life styles. What happens when your Grandson says he's gay, or you daughter is a die hard Democrat. Do you still feel the same about them or is that different. I come from a large family and there is about one of everything. Transgender, Gay, abortions and single moms, drug and alcoholism, yep we got most of that covered. Got to say I still love them all. Don't trust them all but still pray for them.

From: Catscratch
14-Jun-22
Will tell, I think that's part of the divisive and unfortunate example set by our leaders today. Used to be able to disagree with someone but still be friends on other fronts. Currently the example is that if you don't see eye-to-eye with someone on something you should to hate them. It's exemplified daily in Washington and in the media's opinion shows. So much hate for those who disagree.

From: Will
14-Jun-22
Will Tell - fist bump. Amen to that, man!

From: Rocky D
14-Jun-22
Politics rule the planet so if you don’t want to be ruled then unfortunately you need to be involved.

No rights are sacred and they had to be fought for and they will have to be defended constantly.

Conservatives have been complacent and the libs have been busy laying the framework to control the societal narrative!

From: TGbow
14-Jun-22
I can love someone but totally disagree with them. The problem with Marxist left in this country is the fact that they want to deny the natural order that God created. Hunting can't be taken for granted anymore. We've forgotten that the founders did not grant us anything...they simply acknowledged out God given rights we already have..or if you're an atheist, you would say rights you already have because of your humanity. A big deciding factor for the future of hunting will depend on a percentage those that actually hunt but out of ignorance support those that are opposed to hunting. If you don't think there are those that would strip away your liberty you are naive. We are already half way there as far as our overall Liberty goes..thanks to both Dems n NeoCons.

14-Jun-22
I hunt with trad gear, don't view western hunting as an extreme sport, don't use scents, don't use mechanicals, don't wear Kuiu or Sitka, don't shoot $30 broadheads and don't have a food plot.

There are plenty of threads that I skip. It's pretty easy.

From: 12yards
14-Jun-22
"Be positive and accepting of those who differ from you, because without diversity this would be a boring world."

Define healthy diversity. At what point does "diversity" lead to moral decay of a country?

From: LINK
14-Jun-22
“ What happens when your Grandson says he's gay, or you daughter is a die hard Democrat. ”

I would tell them why they are an idiot and love them either way.

From: Dano
14-Jun-22
Pray for them. They still have time to make it in Valhalla.

Dano

From: azelkhntr
14-Jun-22

azelkhntr's embedded Photo
The PS they have sold to US.
azelkhntr's embedded Photo
The PS they have sold to US.
azelkhntr's embedded Photo
The real Political Spectrum.
azelkhntr's embedded Photo
The real Political Spectrum.
The people who complain about politics are the ones; almost everybody; who don't understand politics. Politics isn't about one persons opinion v anothers. Its about structure. Political parties are by existence designed to pit one group against the other. A new form of "civilized" Western tribalism, gangsterism. The mechanism adopted by our betters to keep the masses squabbling amongst themselves is the L v R political model. This model pits 2 equal but opposing forces against the other with the fabled moderates in the middle. You will note that this model is a closed one. Nothing else can exist outside of it. Because of this discrepancy we can conclude that it is false. Why? Because there is no place for Freedom and Liberty within it, and F and L cannot be contained except by the Rule of Law. This propagandic method of population control only exists as a construct to keep US squabbling over the scraps while they rob US blind. Historically its been very effective; for them; but its a BIG LIE. When you understand the true political spectrum you will find that you will never become agitated in discussing politics again, because you'll recognize that they don't know what the hell they're talking about. Their beliefs and convictions are rooted in a false dynamic. You'll understand that this model is keeping your mind enslaved to others. Be right back.....

OK round 2. The next model is the true Political Spectrum that they do NOT WANT YOU TO SEE. Anarchy is the preferred state of human existence but is impossible because of sin. Greed, lust, envy and power keep us from achieving our true potential as individuals here on earth. Thus the necessity for Law as given to Moses by GOD to us. This allows for Libertarianism. You live according to the 10 laws w/o negatively impacting your neighbors or the environment. As societies became more complex the need arose for a more restrictive form of governance. The least restrictive and functional which preserved the Rights of the Individual, while preserving the integrity of the body politic is the Republic which is based upon the Rule of Law. Moving further towards tyranny is the Democracy or mob rule. Democracies function under the Rule of Man. If the majority decide they want your property and rights they take them. I believe our Nation is now at the hashmark between Democracy and Plutocracy. We are not in a good place for the future. Democracies always fall into tyrannies. I hope this helps you all.

From: DanaC
14-Jun-22
So 'Libertarianism' is closer to fascism than Conservatism? Who TF drew that silly thing?

PS An ACCURATE spectrum would scale on respect for INDIVIDUAL vs 'Social' rights regardless of current labels.

14-Jun-22
i went into the auto parts store the other day and they were selling bags of licorice up by the cash register. i dont like licorice and they sure as hell shouldnt be selling candy in an auto parts store. i told the manager that it offended me and if he didnt cut it out, i would never come back. he said its been nice knowing you.

From: Dano
14-Jun-22
The a myth. You cant have communism without Socialism.

Dano

From: Ziek
14-Jun-22
You all are constantly "fighting" over symptoms, not the problem. The "us" vs "them" is a symptom of the root cause of just about all current problems; pollution/climate change, freedom to do whatever the hell you want infringing on whatever the hell someone else wants to do, wild places to hunt without crowds, being able to hunt at all eventually, except maybe in established, likely private, hunting preserves. You name it, it all comes down to too many people on the planet. And that's only going to get worse. It's already demonstrably worse during my lifetime.

From: DanaC
14-Jun-22
Dano - communism IS socialism - at gunpoint.

From: Michael
14-Jun-22
I am with Dana on this one. Do not see how Libertarianism is right of conservatism.

From: Dano
14-Jun-22
You might wanna read some more about the Socialists who wrote the Manifesto. Marx and Engels.

Socialists one and all. Evil Losers of History. Communist League Club. Not a helluva lot different than the Woke Movement in the USA today.

Turn everything you everything you know and turn it upside down. Then, scream racist, white privledge and try to divide the world up into us and them.

Fine with me. I know where it ends at the end of that bumpy road. I will wait patiently.

Dano

14-Jun-22
I picked up the card in my trail camera on Saturday. I had three doe with fawn videos and two buck videos. I also had a coyote. Not political but it made me happy for the nature around me. If you want political I will add I am working with a group of folks who do not hunt to preserve a piece of town owned land. This preservation includes logging and hunting .

From: Dano
14-Jun-22
I have Gigantor in my beans the last week every nite. He came in bow range once last yr on Doe only days!

Back to Commies.

Commies use a social credit score now to keep people in the box the Gvt made for them.

You will see the Woke push for the same thing in USA and call it Freedom . You may fall for it. Dano won’t

From: TGbow
14-Jun-22
Some people call themselves Libertarian and they're really Anarchist. Not all Libertarians agree on every issue just like Republicans n Democrats. Example: I believe abortion is murder because the Bible says murder is a sin. But, I would never use that argument in a court of law to end abortion...I would argue the fact murder is the taking of someone's life, regardless if the person is unborn, born, straight, heterosexual, bisexual, black, white , ect. I think each individual has the "right" to live how they choose whether I agree with them or not...until that individual threatens my safety, my families safety or the general public's safety.

We all have a free will to choose what we want to believe or support. But, that doesn't change the fact that if we choose to reject God's truth there will be consequences. God doesn't force himself on anyone nor should we force our beliefs on anyone. Most people realize basic laws are needed in a society, such as laws against murder, rape, pedophilia, theft,ect. These laws benefit everyone regardless of race or religion. I have a problem with laws that go beyond the basics. Game n Fish laws are necessary, basic traffic laws, yelling fire in a theater as a joke is over stepping your freedom of speech,ect. Lot of folks like myself just think the government should get out of the private sector and let the free market sort it out. Government only makes matters worse. The Civil Rights Act went to far, so now I am discriminated against as a result. What should have happen is simply enforce everyone's constitutional rights but no...the government went too far and ended up doing the very thing it proclaimed to be eliminating.

From: spike78
14-Jun-22
Will Tell, I could care less if a person is gay, trans, or gay married don’t matter to me but what I do have a problem with is the fact they are teaching this to young kids. I don’t even have kids and to see a kid friendly drag queen show going on or to hear that NY spent $207,000 on bringing drag queens to school is absolutely disgusting. Sounds crazy huh? Well look it up it happened. Nobody here has issues with Democrats but the wackos of today are so far left of a Democrat they need a new party name.

From: ohiohunter
14-Jun-22
Absolutely, split the D party.

From: Dano
14-Jun-22
Yes, Yes

Bernie needs to Run for Socialists in America Party

Dano

From: Ziek
14-Jun-22
"...Democrats but the wackos of today are so far left of a Democrat they need a new party name."

But you don't recognize that the Republican Party - all of it - is so full of far right whackos that it is already a new party, just with the same name?

From: spike78
14-Jun-22
Ziek if you think upholding the Constitution is far right then I don’t know what to say. At least their “radical” ideas have not destroyed the economy. Wait and see what a disaster the green energy is going to cause.

From: Dano
14-Jun-22
Lets see in Nov what America says about that!

“Avalanche”

Comin down the mountain.

Nevada will be a good bell-weather. Mostly scared voters, called Independents there. Gop win big there Dems will need an arc. Lets see voter turnout tonite in Primary there.

Dano

From: spike78
14-Jun-22

spike78's Link
How dare the far right wing group the Proud Boys interrupt Drag queen story time for children at a library.

14-Jun-22
It has been decades in the making, and intentional, for Progressives to take over our education system. It is critical that we support the parents finally fighting back. These folks are truly American heroes!

From: Dano
14-Jun-22
Well you got C minus educators teaching young kids. You expect A students from duds and non binaries?

Dano

From: TGbow
14-Jun-22
My wife taught public school for 9 yrs. There are a lot of good teachers and some not so good. Even good teachers face obstacles layed out by the leftist controlling things. Their hands are tied with PC BS. Not to mention the universities are mostly Marxist strongholds so that's what they are being pounded with during their college yrs getting their degree.

14-Jun-22
Spot on TG!

From: Z Barebow
14-Jun-22
“You want the truth? You can’t handle the truth!”

Sure I have opinions/viewpoints. But Bowsite used to be an escape. Living vicariously through other bowhunters experiences. (Even contributing a few of my own ). I looked at CF once in a blue moon. (And it wasn’t for me) When it went away, the big game forums morphed into dumpster fires. I miss the stories and support folks used to give people who wanted to learn . I spend a fraction of the time I used to. And when I do visit, I question my use of time.

From: Buffalo1
14-Jun-22
“Hunting is as natural as sex”

I don’t think I’m gonna use this line on my wife !

I can hear her response now, “Really?!”

From: TGbow
14-Jun-22
Lol..you got a point Greg

From: spike78
15-Jun-22
Damn some of you are talking like because of a few political threads all the hunting stories are gone. I have read threads this past hunting season that have been going on for years. Also, we are in June so their isn’t much besides what sight do you use or what arrows should I buy.

From: Rut Nut
15-Jun-22
I like to read these threads just to keep up with what's going on out there. I live in a small town in Northeast PA and if it wasn;t for these threads I would have never known there was such a thing as "DRAG QUEEN STORY HOUR"............................................(you just CAN'T make this @#$% up! ;-)

From: azelkhntr
15-Jun-22
May I suggest that everyone here contact their respective Senators and instruct them to NOT pass any legislation on gun control containing "red flag laws".

From: Dano
15-Jun-22
Not going to happen. Red Flags are a non starter.

My Senator use to be my congress person lived down the way from me.

DOA

Yes, do call and tell them Dems to take the Clown Bus back to Woke Hill.

Dano

From: Hackbow
15-Jun-22
I've been around since the "Old Bowsite". Politics were discussed then as well. Once the CF was removed the discussions moved to the main forum. The rest of the forums remain untouched...as it should be. Nearly every thread involving politics has a title that indicates it...very easy to avoid (just don't click and get triggered). The actual out of pocket cost to use this privately owned forum has never changed yet there are those who want to treat it as their own sandbox. As of this posting there is one owner who allows political discourse.

The whiners sound like the folks who built a house on the edge of town 30 years ago and could go hunt the fields adjacent to them. As new people have built and moved in the edge of town has moved further out and the 'old guard' complain about all the new people moving in and the loss of hunting opportunity. They forget when they built and moved in that they supplanted the previous edge-of-towners.

My question for the whiners is why YOU are the ones intelligent and benevolent enough to control the actions of others? What is it in your resume that qualifies you to direct the behavior of others and demand your rules be brought to bear?

From: Dano
15-Jun-22
Best post i ever read!!!

You Sir should be elected Bowsite CFO

Dano

15-Jun-22
Without politics bowsite would be a ghost town and no clicks means no new farms for Pat. :)

16-Jun-22
great post hackbow. some people seem to think if they dont want to talk about something, nobody should talk about it.

From: Supernaut
16-Jun-22
Here is a political post brought to us courtesy of Re-Flex circa 1983:

"The politics of dancing

The politics of, ooh, feeling good

The politics of moving, aha

If this message's understood"

I'm a metal guy myself but this one will get stuck in your coconut.

From: Dano
16-Jun-22
First GoP Rep in Texas border district in 150yrs.

I smell hair burning.

Dano

From: Rocky D
16-Jun-22
“ What is it in your resume that qualifies you to direct the behavior of others and demand your rules be brought to bear?”

Hackbow, great post! Normally they operate in the cloak of greater good. That’s code for collectivism…

From: gflight
16-Jun-22
No matter what people complain, it's what they do 8>)

From: DanaC
16-Jun-22
"That’s code for collectivism… " .

Finally! The right label. It isn't 'fascism' or 'communism' or 'socialism' or 'statism' or 'totalitarianism' - underneath the labels they ALL put 'the collective' ahead of *the individual*. .

.

It doesn't matter if your rights are taken away by the church, the state, the commune, the clan, the tribe, the monarchy or whatever you call it. ONLY INDIVIDUALS have rights. The only legitimate government is one that protects the rights of the individual.

.

"In order to secure these rights, governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

.

In almost 250 years nobody has said it better than Jefferson.

From: 2Wild Bill
16-Jun-22
DanaC, "In almost 250 years nobody has said it better than Jefferson."

And Jefferson clearly stated our rights come from God. You know, that person you don't believe in?

From: DanaC
16-Jun-22
He used the term 'their Creator' which could equally refer to nature/evolution. Jefferson's 'religious beliefs' are pretty well documented.

PS He was *human* too ;-)

From: LBshooter
16-Jun-22
if you don't want to read a thread with politics then just pass on it, simple. As far as the Idaho guys being arrested, since when is it illegal to car pool to a event and protest? I remember a lot of summer of love idiots wearing shin guards and helmets and I don't believe any where arrested. I guess illegal acts are determined on your political views. Liberals get agree pass on arson, robbery , assault etc... Republicans get arrested for walking on capital grounds, car pooling to a parade, etc... Funny how that works,isn't it.

From: Ziek
16-Jun-22
"ONLY INDIVIDUALS have rights."

Except if you're a woman.

From: 2Wild Bill
16-Jun-22
DanaC, 'their Creator' Yeah and that's because Jefferson regularly attended church in Federal buildings, as President. He believed God exists, you don't, vast difference. Morality without an absolute is hopelessness. Where did I come from, why am I here and where am I going.

From: Rocky D
16-Jun-22
“ What is it in your resume that qualifies you to direct the behavior of others and demand your rules be brought to bear?”

Hackbow, great post! Normally they operate in the cloak of greater good. That’s code for collectivism…

From: Old Reb
16-Jun-22
Ziek, what about the rights of the unborn? I assume you're talking about abortion. Life starts at conception. When sperm and egg meet. No life has ever occurred with out this crucial step.

From: TGbow
16-Jun-22
Not all the founders were Christians..lot them were. Some were Deist,ect. One thing the majority of them agreed on is the fact that our rights don't come from the government. Too bad all of them didn't see the light when it came to slavery but at least slavery is a thing of the past...well, in a reacial sense it is. The new plantation is the Federal Government..and we're all on it.

From: Ziek
16-Jun-22
"Life starts at conception."

By who's definition? Even if that were true, that life has NO superior right over the body of another person. By definition it is also a parasitic organism until it is born.

"No life has ever occurred with out this crucial step."

Wrong again. Look up parthenogenesis.

And I guess then you also don't believe in the Bible.

16-Jun-22
"Even if that were true, that life has NO superior right over the body of another person."

Does it work the other way? If it's a human life, abortion certainly is one human having superior rights over the one that gets killed.

From: Dano
16-Jun-22
First GoP Rep in Texas border district in 150yrs.

I smell hair burning.

Dano

From: DanaC
16-Jun-22
" abortion certainly is one human having superior rights over the one that gets killed. "

The alternative to that is making the pregnant woman the _slave_ of the fetus.

From: Michael
16-Jun-22
So let me get this strait.

Abortion is ok when the baby is not wanted.

If we change that to a baby is wanted and the pregnant woman is murdered then it’s a double homicide.

16-Jun-22
Slave to the fetus? 9 months of pregnancy due to pregnancy from a purposeful choice is equal or worse than being killed?

From: Ziek
16-Jun-22
The right of one person vs the rights of another is pretty clear, and unambiguous.

If I need a kidney to save my life, I can't demand one from someone else. Someone can't even be compelled to give something as simple as life-saving blood for someone else. Even after death, your life saving organs can't be used unless you have expressly agreed to that. Seems pretty clear. A person's body is sacrosanct even at the peril of someone else.

Still waiting for a compelling, universally accepted definition of when a human life begins.

16-Jun-22
There isn't a universally accepted definition. If there was, abortion wouldn't be a big issue.

If it's conception, very few would support abortion. If it's just a parasite, not many could justify not allowing abortion.

From: Old Reb
16-Jun-22
Ziek, I was referring to mortal humans. Again, human life starts at conception of sperm and egg. With out that crucial step human life doesn't begin.

From: Old Reb
16-Jun-22
Ziek, parthenogenisis isn't possible with human beings. As I stated before mortal human life can't begin without conception of sperm and egg. Prove to me that it can. You can't, no matter how you and DanaC want to define the beginning of life.

16-Jun-22
" A person's body is sacrosanct even at the peril of someone else."

That's the pro-life argument as well.

From: DanaC
16-Jun-22
Glunt, we caught how you tried to equate 'fetus' with 'person' there. Nice try, but you don't get to present your conclusions as supporting arguments.

From: TGbow
16-Jun-22
Anyone that denies an unborn child is not a person is not looking at real science. We are way beyond that argument now. Science just proves God is right to begin with. I agree, a woman has a right to her own body..but the problem is the child has its own unique DNA, so that makes it a person. Like one atheist Libertarian said once.." my argument that the unborn child has a right to life is not based on religion, but the fact that we know the unborn child has its own DNA which makes it a person.

When I held my 5 month old child in my hands for the last time I can tell you it wasn't a parasite or glob of tissue. Even way earlier than 5 months you can see it's a child. " The right to Life, Liberty, and happiness". Pretty simple really. The truth is this is probably the major cancer eating away at America today, the fact that we don't view life as sacred anymore. All life. This debate sounds familiar to the arguments between the abolitionist and the pro slavery crowd...the abolitionist had it right all along because they understood that all humans, all life, all races are created equal.

16-Jun-22
Dana

I was commenting on Zieks post where he discussed:

"The right of one person vs the rights of another is pretty clear..."

16-Jun-22
It’s interesting to watch Godless people argue why they feel the way they do. Telling indeed.

Any man or woman who justifies killing a baby, from the second it’s conceived, as a right because it’s not a human, is the definition of evil. That’s reasoning from a position of malice. Not common sense. It ain’t like an apple comes out. It’s a human being. And, it’s human the minute it’s conceived. That’s common sense. No arguing needed.

16-Jun-22
"Still waiting for a compelling, universally accepted definition of when a human life begins."

the only real compelling definition is at conception because that is when the zygote has its own unique dna making it a unique human being. you will never have a universally accepted definition because there will always be a segment of the population that thinks everything beyond conception should be protected and a certain segment of the population that wants to be able to rid themselves of an unwanted baby all the way up to and even after birth.

From: Ziek
16-Jun-22
"...God is right to begin with."

And you know that how?

From: Dano
16-Jun-22
Got us an Agnostic here or an Atheist.

There’s no gettin in that cranium until he is begging for god to save him.

Believe …

Dano

From: TGbow
16-Jun-22
6 to 7 weeks when an ultrasound can pick up a heart beat...of course that's just with the technology we have today..so far.

Any culture that starts deciding who is worthy to live and who's not is headed down a terrible path. History tells us that, how quickly we forget.

From: 2Wild Bill
16-Jun-22
DanaC,

"ONLY INDIVIDUALS have rights." Says who, YOU? You are only a little god DanaC. "Nice try, but you don't get to present your conclusions as supporting arguments."

From: Woods Walker
16-Jun-22
Abortion should be MANDATORY for Democrats. Solve a lot of problems that way!

Well...maybe not ALL the problems. They'll still have the slaughtered infants registered to vote.

From: DanaC
16-Jun-22

DanaC's Link
Bill, are you at all familiar with the work of Ayn Rand?

16-Jun-22
the science is pretty simple. a unique new human is created when unique new dna is created. that is at conception. viability can be debated but not the fact that an abortion at any stage beyond conception is the elimination of that unique being.

From: Old Reb
16-Jun-22
DanaC, because Alice O'Connor, a Russian philosopher, says that an embryo has no rights makes it an absolute? I take that with the same weight that you take the teachings of Paul, Mathew, Luke, Mark, John, etc. and Jesus Christ himself.

From: Jethro
16-Jun-22
MQQSE, I think your questions have been answered. Politics, abortion, religion. The new Bowsite.

16-Jun-22
"The alternative to that is making the pregnant woman the _slave_ of the fetus."

only if you admit that the fetus is separate human being. otherwise how can you be enslaved by a body part or a mass of cells. if you acknowledge that the fetus is a separate human being, you must also recognize that human beings rights.

From: TGbow
16-Jun-22
Hold on there Ricky, you are making too much sense about this subject...don't you know it how "you feel" about that matters, not science or morals.

From: Rocky D
16-Jun-22
“ Still waiting for a compelling, universally accepted definition of when a human life begins.”

When they can charge murder of a baby when a mother is expecting would be a good place to start.

From: Rocky D
16-Jun-22

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