WY task force changes
Elk
Does anyone know when the decisions will be made as to what changes will be implemented?
As soon as they locate plenty of the smoke and mirrors they will use to justify the outfitters set aside for deer, elk and pronghorn.
Yesterday I received an email from Wyo G&F for a survey about the task farce moose and sheep preference point proposal.
There is no date nor will there be until the TF moves forward their proposals, then the Commission has to meet, public comments, then vote, as well as legislation written, TRW committee meetings, legislator approval or denial, etc.
The only thing done so far is 90/10 for Moose and Sheep, which takes affect July 1.
wapitiBob: they've decided on 90-10 for moose sheep but now they are deciding how to deal with preference points? From the survey info they don't seem inclined to get rid of them
Might want to re-read it....
There are three primary components of the changes recommended: THIS IS MOOSE SHEEP
1) Transition from a prescriptive draw where 75% of licenses are drawn from the top point holders to a system that is completely random.
2) Transition to a weighted bonus point system where an applicant’s advantage in the draw increases exponentially with each subsequent year they continue to apply. The Taskforce recommends this be implemented by squaring an applicant’s total number of bonus points.
3) Delay implementation by up to four years from the date the law is effective to provide long term applicants with the highest numbers of preference points a transition period.
Sounds like preference points become bonus points and draw becomes completely random. It's irrelevant for me since I'm not in the moose/sheep group but as long as the TF is even considering a set aside for outfitters for DEA I can't believe they are functioning in the best interest of residents or non-residents.
Does anyone know if the 90/10 split is going to be total number of licenses or per unit
What's sad is nonresident and resident landowner tags are unlimited and taken off the top of the quotas prior to the public drawing. Every landowner that is eligible is offered these high demand limited tags.
It's hard to say what transpires. Right now the outfitters want units that have 30% or less odds of drawing (highest demand units) will be the only units impacted by 90/10.
There really aren't that many tags issued to nonres even at the current rates! Draw odds for residents will barely change but it cuts nonres opportunity in 1/2! It will take at least twice as long to draw the same limited tags.
The task force is accepting comments. It only takes a few minutes. Here's the website: https://sites.google.com/wyo.gov/wyomingwildlifetaskforce/home/public-input
Not every landowner is eligible for landowners tags , come on jims get that right and you know it. They have to have the animal days to qualify. They do not just get them. The GW comes out and verifies they have the necessary animals days for landowner tags. They also only get 2 licenses max per property.
I’m only really interested in how this will affect general elk licenses.
Well, for what it's worth I put in my comments. Randy Newberg did a chat about this on a recent Fresh Tracks episode. He said Montana tried an outfitter set aside years back. Once the outfitters had a guaranteed stream of clients, they went out and leased up all the land they could. Resident and nonresident hunters lost access to a ton of land. Draw odds went way down for nonres. That's why they got rid of outfitter welfare about 10 years ago. Of course, they just voted some back in this year with the preference point BS.
If everything passes it’ll kill gen licenses. 90/10 will cut the licenses almost in half because they’re also wanting to do away with the 7250 quota, outfitters would then get half of those. I suspect the nr pricing on what remains will be at the special level or more.
I still can't figure out how the Game and Fish can withstand the rev loss from cutting NR tags in half?
The early proposal states the nr license price will increase to cover any losses.
So in addition to tripling the number of points for a NR to draw, they're also going to triple the cost. That's awesome...
I'm apparently reading the entire 90/10 proposal wrong? Thought that only applied to draw areas with a three year resident draw rate less than 30%?
There are multiple proposals being discussed none of which have been formally presented for public comment. One of them is no change. The July meeting will hopefully bring some clarity to exactly what the final changes could be. I believe the hope was for an August task force vote
If you are a nonres or res DIY/OYO hunter I would voice your opinion on the TF survey in my post above!
IT is a shat show on that Task Force. Even residents are against most of their proposals. Put in your comments please , even as NRs. Outfitters want guaranteed licenses and a guaranteed income. Might be better off emailing the commissioners instead of the Task Force, they will make the recommendations for changes that go through. Task Force has shown they could care less about NR hunting DIY.
Keep commenting but let those commissioners know how you feel also. I don't think outfitters will let elk licenses get reduced, they want more of them for NRs and want set asides for outfitters.
I hope residents are voicing their displeasure with all the proposals too, most of us do not like what we see coming out of the Task Force.
In my opinion Task force comments are a waste of time, commission and legislature will make the changes. Back when wyoga wanted to increase the 7250 cap one commissioner asked sy why 30+ percent of all the nr elk licenses wasn't enough. Hopefully the commission push back continues.
That’ll be it, nobody really knows at this point…I just know I need to burn my Deer points! ;-)
I included in my comments on the proposals that I thought that WY sold preference points with an expressed value and if WY reduced that value to zero by going to a random draw WY had to refund all point fees to all point holders. Only fair. If WY goes to a bonus system, WY should provide an option for points holders to get a refund or roll their points over to bonus points. Please feel free to make similar comments if you feel the same. I can see a class action lawsuit in the making.
Value and fair with regard to points is a fabricated concept. Any change will still result in a drawing advantage for a person with points, meeting the regulation.
“Section 21. Drawing Advantage.
The Department shall develop and maintain a license issue system that allows qualified persons, as prescribed below, who have either purchased a preference point or were unsuccessful in the preference point drawing for a full price bighorn sheep or moose license, or purchased a preference point for nonresident antelope, deer or elk, a drawing advantage in future years as prescribed in Wyoming statutes.“
Task Force previously voted to recommend the dept remove the 7250 cap and go to regions for nr Elk; I missed that part. A region could have more or less nr tags than currently available if they do that. The other proposals are now posted on the TF site.
So depending on where you hunt elk there’s still a glimmer of hope. I’m a positive thinker. I have plans B and C in mind too though.
Wapitibob: it seems like they are getting comfortable in the topics and proposals with giving outfitters half the non-resident tags. I got the feeling they would be higher priced.
PROPOSITION 6: OUTFITTED NON-RESIDENT LICENSE POOL DRAWING The Wyoming Legislature shall establish in statute, and direct the Commission and State Board of Outfitters and Professional Guides to develop and promulgate any necessary rules and regulations, an Outfitted Non-Resident License Pool Drawing. Through statute, rule, or regulation change, eliminate the non-resident “special license” designation and establish an outfitted non-resident pool. One-half (50%) of the non-resident license quota – half of the 10% in HD Units, and half of the 15% in SD Units - shall be available in this pool. Only non-residents who are contracted with a registered Wyoming Outfitter OR who are sponsored by an eligible landowner, shall be able to enter into this drawing.
Outfitter Eligibility - To be eligible, outfitters must be currently registered and licensed by the Wyoming State Board of Outfitters and Professional Guides.
Landowner Eligibility – To be eligible, landowners must be registered with the Wyoming State Board of Outfitters and Professional Guides, shall be located in the hunt area for which the sponsored non-resident, shall consist of a minimum of 160 deeded or leased acres and utilized by the type of big game or wild turkeys for which the applicant applied. The landowner shall demonstrate that the species of wildlife for which they are sponsoring non-resident applicants utilizes the deeded/leased land for a minimum of two thousand (2,000) days of use during the twelve (12) month period immediately preceding the date of landowner registration.
The fee for licenses in the outfitted non-resident pool will be set at a level sufficient to cover the anticipated reduction in revenue associated with other actions recommended in this proposal. Unsubscribed (leftover) licenses from the outfitted non-resident pool will roll over into the regular non-resident pool and be issued at the regular license rate to successful applicants.
Not good is right. Licenses are definitely goingvto increase in cost, and go down in availability. Outfitters are already expensive enough, and this will just give them more room to raise prices even more. The first sentence in the last paragraph really tells the tale. WY isnt planning on losing any money.
I can't believe the Task Force cannot see the absurdity in subsidizing a private business with the state's game animals. Why aren't the game processors asking for their percentage of tags? Not everyone uses a local processor just as not everyone uses an outfitter but you might get your meat packaged in Wyoming if the processor could help you get a tag.
The only bright spot is this stuff has to pass the legislature and/or commission.
talking points from sly sy gilliland of wyoga for you nr to send to the task force to help implement the outfitter tags
The recommended talking points:
Below are some talking points for you to use when emailing the task force members:
I want to book with my outfitter to hunt more often in Wyoming, rather than waiting for many years to draw a license.
I would choose to hunt Wyoming before any other state if licenses were more available to the outfitted client.
I want to support Wyoming’s economy by hunting with my professional outfitter.
I prefer to book with my outfitter to ensure my safety and a high-quality hunting experience.
I want the opportunity to come back with the professional outfitter that I have established a relationship with.
counter point from greenhorn..
Below are some talking points for you to use when emailing the task force members"
I hunt in Wyoming whenever I can draw a license. I don't hire an outfitter, but I spend a significant amount of my money on gas, food, hotels, restaurants, etc. I would likely not spend my money in Wyoming if the applications prices continued to go up and the drawing odds continue to go down or are allocated only to those wishing to use an outfitter.
If the allocation of licenses are set aside for outfitters, and significantly lowering the odds of drawing a license to do my own hunting, there is a high chance that I would pick another state, such as Idaho to start sending my money to.
I want to support Wyoming’s economy by hunting, regularly spending money with Wyoming Game & Fish, local grocery stores, gas stations, hotels, etc.
I prefer to hunt DIY, as I enjoy the challenging and rewarding activity of "hunting" and all that goes along with it, as opposed to a pampered vacation where I have somebody help me kill something.
I want the opportunity to continue to have relatively decent chances at the pool of Wyoming's non-resident license quotas, so I will apply annually. I don't play the lottery, and if the odds of NR DIY hunting licenses get too slim, chances are my dollars will no longer be spent in Wyoming.
Probably as good of an argument as you can make. Money talks to these guys.
Probably wasting your breath to start talking about the American wildlife model and privatization of public animals.
Was anyone able to watch the last meeting? I was off the grid and missed it. Probably wouldn't have understood it anyway.
Additional glimmer of hope.
https://cowboystatedaily.com/2022/07/28/dedicated-licenses-for-out-of-state-big-game-hunters-dead-in-the-water-says-legislator/?fbclid=IwAR2biY3Ggi3-QvoSjNRqyTfGGZZmvfl2iIbiDrGMrS4KaskqXCB1dhAyWv4
That's promising...hopefully the "dead in the water" assessment is accurate!
I’m still most concerned about the 90-10
Maybe I'll get to hunt WY again in the next couple years. If 90/10 went through I would probably quit trying.
Priorities! I’ll be hunting Wyoming for as long as I want to regardless of what it takes. I’m working on helping a friend purchase an outfitting business right now. Whatever it takes! The last resort is moving there but…. Whatever it takes. .
I don't get the notion that residents need extra tags, (or deserve extra tags) when they are guaranteed a Gen tag, which by definition, is a limited entry tag?
And they can hunt any wilderness. IMO, WY is already a very resident friendly state.
Everyone's baseline is different. If you took someone from New Mexico, where I grew up, to Wyoming and showed them the hunting they could enjoy they'd be ecstatic. WY residents are pretty spoiled. Had a couple complain like crazy about us out-of-staters hunting their deer one year. They asked "Didn't I have deer in Utah I could hunt?" I said sure, but I like to hunt deer all over. Plus I gave WY a lot of money and waited 4 years for the chance to come enjoy some WY high country. Feel free to come down to Utah if you draw a tag and enjoy some desert hunting.
General licenses are not limited entry, every resident can buy one and they are not regulated by a quota.
Spoiled? Come live here a year or 2.
I guess none of you noticed they took the 7250 quota cap off for NR elk, commission did that. You may get stuck with 90/10 but your 10% may be at least as many or more than now.
No offense meant Wytex. I should have said spoiled with hunting. You have way more cold, wind, snow, etc than I like.
Still what Western state or any state for that matter gives more advantages to residents in regard to big game hunting? Not trying to start an argument, just stating a fact
When WY NR sheep points went from $7 to $100 half the NR dropped out. Half the work for 7x the profit. The frustrating part is there is pretty much nothing the NR can do. Dropping out does NOT affect anything except you not getting to hunt WY. Income from NR has continually increased no matter how bad they screwed us.
I have had over 10 WY elk tags, 3 lope, 3 deer, 2 bison and I do not think what WY is doing is right.
All good nmwapiti.
Don send in your comments, that is how you get your voice heard and they are reading comments. Whether or not they take them into consideration is another matter.
Lots of trade offs living in a state like Wyoming, great hunting is the one positive we have as residents and that is why many folks live here, why we live here for sure.
Still what Western state or any state for that matter gives more advantages to residents in regard to big game hunting? Not trying to start an argument, just stating a fact
Still what Western state or any state for that matter gives more advantages to residents in regard to big game hunting? Not trying to start an argument, just stating a fact
sorry, not sure why this post keeps repeating.
I did comment and if I ever move WY is definitely my #1 choice!
If this passes when doe sit go into affect? Is there a 5 year delay like WY sheep & moose? What I mean is I believe i read WY has to give 5 years on certain things before implementing changes?
More importantly, the outfitter non-res tag allocation also failed with it.
Elk Gen is headed for regions. Commission passed it to the dept for regulation creation.
Would the Elk Gen regions only apply to NR, Bob?
I’ll take a guess midwest. LQ units will obviously not become a part of regions. Only general license areas. Residents will continue to buy otc licenses there. They’ll have to pick a region just like NR hunters. So all hunters will have to commit to a region.
It may, and probably will affect draw odds depending on the region. Some will go up while others will decrease.
The main thing for me is I may not be able to go hunt one of my spots then just relocate to hunt a different one. I have places that I’m sure would not be in the same regions. If you hunt an area that is popular and sees a lot of pressure your odds may go down. It’ll be interesting to see how well they distribute the number of licenses from one region to another.
My questions are… can I pick a region X license as my first choice and region Y as my 2nd choice? If not and a region is undersold will it become a leftover? Or will they reallocate the licenses to a different region that sold out?
The first year will be a roll of the dice since there will be no draw odds to look at. I’d want my license to be for my main hunting area but if I knew my odds of drawing a tag were better in my spot B I’d apply there.
I know it failed but isn't it likely they will reintroduce it? What is the soonest it could happen if reintroduced and passed? I am trying to figure out my plan for myself & friends to use up a lot of WY elk points and hunt together. Looking at WY past it seems extremely likely it will pass soon. In 5 years there is no way NR will be getting as many elk tags as they do now.
Nick, yes resident elk gen remains unchanged. The dept will create the rule, perhaps with regions defined, then I believe it goes out for public comment. You can choose regions for each draw choice just like deer. The draw is static, undersold licenses can not be dynamically moved to another region. I doubt they can get it done for 2023, they haven’t even finished the regulation. And it may not pass anyway.
