American Deterioration
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
sundowner 04-Aug-22
Kevin Speicher 04-Aug-22
Bou'bound 04-Aug-22
KSflatlander 04-Aug-22
Treeline 04-Aug-22
Snuffer 04-Aug-22
TGbow 04-Aug-22
sundowner 04-Aug-22
APauls 04-Aug-22
[email protected] 04-Aug-22
drycreek 04-Aug-22
standswittaknife 04-Aug-22
SIP 04-Aug-22
[email protected] 04-Aug-22
Old School 04-Aug-22
SIP 04-Aug-22
sundowner 04-Aug-22
Will 04-Aug-22
Huntskifishcook 04-Aug-22
wv_bowhunter 04-Aug-22
KSflatlander 04-Aug-22
azelkhntr 04-Aug-22
TGbow 04-Aug-22
nmwapiti 04-Aug-22
soccern23ny 04-Aug-22
APauls 04-Aug-22
KSflatlander 04-Aug-22
sundowner 04-Aug-22
Missouribreaks 04-Aug-22
70lbDraw 04-Aug-22
soccern23ny 04-Aug-22
Dale06 04-Aug-22
TGbow 04-Aug-22
soccern23ny 04-Aug-22
MichaelArnette 04-Aug-22
TGbow 04-Aug-22
sundowner 04-Aug-22
Ken Taylor 04-Aug-22
Ogoki 04-Aug-22
JohnMC 04-Aug-22
RonP 04-Aug-22
TGbow 04-Aug-22
bowhunt 04-Aug-22
soccern23ny 04-Aug-22
70lbDraw 04-Aug-22
KSflatlander 04-Aug-22
JohnMC 04-Aug-22
kentuckbowhnter 04-Aug-22
KSflatlander 04-Aug-22
DanaC 04-Aug-22
Southern draw 04-Aug-22
Will tell 04-Aug-22
TGbow 04-Aug-22
KSflatlander 04-Aug-22
TGbow 04-Aug-22
KSflatlander 04-Aug-22
bowhunt 04-Aug-22
bowhunt 04-Aug-22
JohnMC 04-Aug-22
KSflatlander 04-Aug-22
70lbDraw 04-Aug-22
KSflatlander 04-Aug-22
JohnMC 04-Aug-22
Buffalo1 04-Aug-22
KSflatlander 04-Aug-22
HDE 04-Aug-22
JohnMC 04-Aug-22
2Wild Bill 04-Aug-22
Stix 04-Aug-22
WV Mountaineer 04-Aug-22
TGbow 04-Aug-22
Jim McNamara 04-Aug-22
TGbow 04-Aug-22
KSflatlander 04-Aug-22
Shaft2Long 05-Aug-22
TGbow 05-Aug-22
KSflatlander 05-Aug-22
Brotsky 05-Aug-22
Will 05-Aug-22
TGbow 05-Aug-22
2Wild Bill 05-Aug-22
TGbow 05-Aug-22
spike78 05-Aug-22
IdyllwildArcher 05-Aug-22
TGbow 05-Aug-22
JohnMC 05-Aug-22
DanaC 05-Aug-22
azelkhntr 05-Aug-22
spike78 05-Aug-22
JohnMC 05-Aug-22
Anglinscreek 05-Aug-22
spike78 05-Aug-22
TGbow 05-Aug-22
TGbow 05-Aug-22
[email protected] 05-Aug-22
HDE 05-Aug-22
azelkhntr 05-Aug-22
DanaC 05-Aug-22
JohnMC 05-Aug-22
Brotsky 05-Aug-22
JohnMC 05-Aug-22
sundowner 05-Aug-22
azelkhntr 05-Aug-22
fuzzy 05-Aug-22
DanaC 05-Aug-22
Rocky D 05-Aug-22
Mint 05-Aug-22
KSflatlander 05-Aug-22
JohnMC 05-Aug-22
DanaC 05-Aug-22
Norseman 05-Aug-22
sundowner 05-Aug-22
Norseman 05-Aug-22
TGbow 05-Aug-22
TGbow 05-Aug-22
scentman 05-Aug-22
azelkhntr 05-Aug-22
DanaC 05-Aug-22
spike78 05-Aug-22
WV Mountaineer 05-Aug-22
TGbow 05-Aug-22
DanaC 05-Aug-22
TGbow 05-Aug-22
Mule Power 05-Aug-22
Stix 05-Aug-22
Woods Walker 06-Aug-22
PECO2 06-Aug-22
Bowbender 06-Aug-22
TGbow 06-Aug-22
scentman 06-Aug-22
Old Bow 06-Aug-22
Missouribreaks 06-Aug-22
Matt 06-Aug-22
bigeasygator 06-Aug-22
bowhunt 06-Aug-22
bowhunt 06-Aug-22
Matt 06-Aug-22
Matt 06-Aug-22
JohnMC 06-Aug-22
TGbow 06-Aug-22
Missouribreaks 06-Aug-22
spike78 06-Aug-22
spike78 06-Aug-22
Ken Taylor 06-Aug-22
spike78 06-Aug-22
spike78 06-Aug-22
TGbow 06-Aug-22
Matt 07-Aug-22
shade mt 07-Aug-22
Woods Walker 07-Aug-22
RonP 07-Aug-22
Woods Walker 07-Aug-22
HDE 07-Aug-22
fuzzy 07-Aug-22
azelkhntr 07-Aug-22
TGbow 07-Aug-22
gflight 07-Aug-22
gflight 08-Aug-22
gflight 08-Aug-22
South Farm 08-Aug-22
gflight 08-Aug-22
Will 08-Aug-22
Treeline 08-Aug-22
gflight 08-Aug-22
TGbow 08-Aug-22
azelkhntr 08-Aug-22
Stubbleduck 08-Aug-22
spike78 08-Aug-22
DanaC 08-Aug-22
KSflatlander 08-Aug-22
spike78 08-Aug-22
South Farm 09-Aug-22
From: sundowner
04-Aug-22
I am witnessing the steady deterioration of my country. Every day the headlines are filled with bad news, from runaway inflation, government corruption, the southern border invasion, the national crime crisis, foreign policy weakness, to the cultural breakdown and disintegration of the family unit.

Question #1: Does anyone here believe that the national downfall is NOT due to liberal Democrat policies?

Question #2: Will you vote for Conservative Senate and House candidates in November, in an effort to re-establish American greatness?

04-Aug-22
1 - NO 2- YES

From: Bou'bound
04-Aug-22
But is bowunting getting better or worse that is the question.

From: KSflatlander
04-Aug-22
Maybe if you stopped consuming right wing “news” for a month you will be more optimistic. You should try it.

Nice leading questions though.

From: Treeline
04-Aug-22
Also 1. No and 2. Yes

KS, if you are still buying what the Liberal MSM is selling after the last 2 year total shit show, there is no hope for you.

Since the Totalitarian Marxists (Democrats) took power in 2020, there has not been one positive thing done for America or the American people.

From: Snuffer
04-Aug-22
Maybe if liberals would quit trying so hard things would get better?

From: TGbow
04-Aug-22
You might as well save your words. If folks don't see what the leftist on both sides of the isle are wanting to do and are doing....they won't see until it's too late.

Ask this question...what nation that has adopted Socialist, Marxist, Communist, Fascist, Statist type governments have ever prospered? None. That's because it doesn't work well at all.

These tyrants are not Liberals...they are power hungry controllist..and we have witnessed the results from both parties.

Leftist always throw money and effort at everything but the root cause..like putting a bandaid on a cancerous sore..it covers it up but does absolutely nothing to deal with the cancer.

From: sundowner
04-Aug-22
"These tyrants are not Liberals...they are power hungry controllist..and we have witnessed the results from both parties."

Right. That is why Question #2 asks if you will vote for CONSERVATIVE candidates.....not Republican candidates.

From: APauls
04-Aug-22
So funny. I was thinking of that the other day.

Interesting how a nation founded on God and biblical principles rose to be a worldwide leader and global powerhouse. Interesting to see the same nation rejecting God and biblical principles degrading itself and slowly falling apart. Also interesting how the same story is essentially mirrored in the bible numerous times over.

No doubt many non-Christian’s will hate my take on this but regardless of your take on Christianity biblical morals financially and personally are tough to refute that they build a good socio-economic place. Loving your neighbour, taking care of your family and sticking by them, saving for a rainy day etc etc.

04-Aug-22
I wouldnt vote for a democrat for dogcatcher

Now get off my lawn

From: drycreek
04-Aug-22
The downfall of our nation and the rest of the world is due to humanity sliding slowly away from God. That causes all of the rest of it.

Yes, I will be voting for politicians who claim to be conservatives but of whom half or more will be RINOS.

NO POLITICIAN OR POLITICAL PARTY IS GOING TO SAVE THIS NATION OR THIS WORLD.

04-Aug-22
"Interesting how a nation founded on God and biblical principles rose to be a worldwide leader and global powerhouse. Interesting to see the same nation rejecting God and biblical principles degrading itself and slowly falling apart. Also interesting how the same story is essentially mirrored in the bible numerous times over" funny coincidence huh????

From: SIP
04-Aug-22
Bullseye APauls. From a hundred yards….

04-Aug-22
Government is a huge part of the problem but not likely a big part of the solution other than if they back off the damage they cause.

I will vote for the best option to have the most individual freedom from the crappy choices we will have.

Fixing America will have to come from the private sector like almost everything positive and productive.

From: Old School
04-Aug-22
Political corruptness is the symptom of a much deeper problem - a spiritual one. Some see it and some don’t. I believe we are seeing some results of God simply allowing us to have our own way. Flashback to the days of the judges when “every man did that which was right in his own eyes.” No moral absolutes and certainly no fear of God before their eyes.

From: SIP
04-Aug-22
Old School with a robinhood

From: sundowner
04-Aug-22
"Maybe if you stopped consuming right wing “news” for a month you will be more optimistic. You should try it."

I watch and read both right and left slanted news, and I know the difference.

But Flatlander, you deserve some credit I suppose. Much like today's cigarette smokers, you hang in there despite overwhelming evidence that what you are doing is extremely destructive.

"None are so blind as those who WILL NOT see."

From: Will
04-Aug-22
Funny, because when you actually look at reality. Battle deaths largely are hugely lower than the past 100 yrs or before, on the global level. Russia and Ukraine likely have raised that number slightly, but the trend is hugely better. The rates of homicide are lower than most of the past 100yrs - even now. Rates of rape and domestic violence are lower. Abuse in school as well as physical and mental abuse rates are lower. Broadly democracy is spreading (though there is other data showing this is changing a little and some nations are regressing in that category, including us). The use of capitol punishment has decreased tremendously.

(Link at end to a paper by Stephen Pinker with ref's for those points)

So, yes. We are in epic decline because more Americans are open to different lifestyles or cultures than they were 50-100yrs ago. That's not saying folks then were bad. Just that they didnt have the chance to know/meet/interact with folks who were different in some ways... And that's steadily changed resulting in a more open society, and people who felt shunned or hated just for who they were, being more willing to openly be that person now, than they would have a few decades ago.

No positive things in the past few years? There have been far more positives than negatives.

1.) Reduced the deficit significantly. 2.) Invested in semiconductor manufacture in the US. 3.) American Rescue Plan which helped add 10mil jobs to the economy and drop unemployment to 3.6% 4.) Major infrastructure bill 5.) Burn Pit suffering vet's help (PACT bill) 6.) Rebuild strength and cohesion in the free nations of the world (badly shaken previously) to help fight an autocrat's needless war (Ukraine). 7.) Trying to manage inflation (which if you believe is solely the fault of Biden, Trump, or any administration you are willfully ignorant. Its a complex global phenomenon with many roots. Yes, some are on this admin, many are not. Their handling of it isnt perfect but given how it's going in many other nations, we are doing better economically post pandemic by a heck of a ways) 8.) Many companies continue to post massive, record profits despite the economic challenges that do exist. Exxon made 17.9$ billion, up 273% from the same quarter last year. Chevron 11.6 billion. The major oil co's put up like 60billion or so over the past 3 months. Exxon was raking in about 2200 dollars a second every single day and Chevron about 1500 dollars a second. Seems like a good quarter to me. 9.) Inflation Reduction Act looks like a go and most non-partisan economic groups believe it will be very positive economically. Helping both with health care costs, green energy investment further deficit reductions. 10.) For those of you loving big walls, the admin even started filling in some sections and actually got Mexico to invest in more enforcement capability on their side of the border. Seems like something many here would applaud even if it's not exactly what you want. 11.) Killed Al Qaeda's leader. 12.) Gas prices dropping steadily for almost 7 weeks now. All his fault, not in reality unless Biden's policy's in the US literally raised gas prices around the earth. Should / could he have done more sooner to cut that off, yeah, that would have been awesome. Have to admit, I suspect those companies in #8 above could have helped a little too. But, I also have stock in those companies... so I guess I'm paying more at the pump and getting more in the investment portfolio. That's a rationalization, it's a global issue and it's improving, hopefully a lot more.

This admin has made some serious blunders for sure. They (none ever will be) were never going to be perfect or serve all of us as we wish they would. There are plenty of areas that could have gone and could be better.

But the argument on general grounds that the USA is a cess pool is factually false and not based on the evidence which has mounted over the past century, nor the past few years. Similarly, it does not take into account the myriad ways we are better off now - for example, simple stuff people dont think of like more people with indoor electricity and plumbing, better internet availability, etc.

Now, Ill complain and moan about policies I think are dumb, or approaches to governance I think are no good. But the argument that we are worse off today, really lands ONLY from our own creation. The information streams we choose for example. If we suck down Alex Jones for days, yes, we think the world is ending and everything is horrid. That's like shoving our face in a pile of rotten elephant remains, taking a bite, and saying "the finest steak in the world is horrible and this proves it".

I'm sure Ill be flamed and a million links of our imminent demise shall follow. So be it. What's up there above this is evidence based and readily available from reputable sources, google away.

I dont want to be the jerk. But I think it's worth (when I have time at least) it to drop information that makes you think.

Here is the link to the broad trends noted early on in this way to long post. https://stevenpinker.com/files/pinker/files/has_the_decline_of_violence_reversed_since_the_better_angels_of_our_nature_was_written_2017.pdf

04-Aug-22

Huntskifishcook's Link
I find it best to avoid the news at all costs and just live life. I don't see any of the terrible things that both the left and right claim to be happening when I'm out and about interacting with people from all different walks of life.

From: wv_bowhunter
04-Aug-22
“Like” for APauls comment!

From: KSflatlander
04-Aug-22
Great. You get information from both. Me too. Try not watching either for a month. Or at least with an open mind it you must. I hardly watch any news anymore and it feels great.

Yep, I still believe most people are good and I’m not changing just because a few here try to paint the many with the extremes.

Don’t forget that some of humankind’s most atrocious and disgusting behavior has been in the name of a god or justified by said god. Religion has been twisted so bad by man in the past. Be sure your not twisting it too. Christians who only have relationships with Christians wasn’t Jesus’s plan. He did the opposite.

This is why I don’t get why you all dislike “liberal” hunters. Isn’t it a good thing that I proudly tell other liberals I’m a bowhunter and explain the value in hunting?

Maybe the problem is what you think is a liberal isn't really a liberal. There are extremes in every sect of humanity.

Sounds like a failure trap to me. Be like me and believe like me and the world would be a better…type of perspective. That’s absolutely true for you but maybe not so much for someone in Chile, Sudan, Japan, or maybe Muhammad Ali, or me, or your neighbor.

Great Post Will!!!!

From: azelkhntr
04-Aug-22

azelkhntr's embedded Photo
Our country is financially, morally and politically bankrupt. Our once polite society no longer exists. The marxists have done their jobs well with the aid of those who should have been guarding the gates. We are now fat, dumb and ignorant. A target.
azelkhntr's embedded Photo
Our country is financially, morally and politically bankrupt. Our once polite society no longer exists. The marxists have done their jobs well with the aid of those who should have been guarding the gates. We are now fat, dumb and ignorant. A target.

From: TGbow
04-Aug-22
Glint is spot on. Real change comes from the grass roots.

Somebody is voting for these thugs. We have a right to believe what we choose but the truth is a nation that becomes morally bankrupt will crumble from within

From: nmwapiti
04-Aug-22
There is an interesting book you might want to read. It's called The Fourth Turning. The author did a bunch of historical research going back thousands of years. He claims all the social orders in humanity run in roughly 80 years cycles. They start with a crisis, our last one was the great depression and WWII. That solidifies social norms and expectations. As each generation passes, however, they move farther away from them. The 4th generation has no memory of what caused the last crisis and leads society into the next, repeating the cycle. The book was written in 1997. He predicted we would be in a crisis right now. That would include social unrest, protests, etc. They usually end in a major war. He says things will correct themselves after we go through another major test. Hope so.

Another good short read is The End of Empires. Similar conclusions without the cycle by a British officer. Funny enough, the things a society becomes obsessed with at the end of its life are sports, gender, women in power, debt, etc. Seems like we can't help but relive the past.

From: soccern23ny
04-Aug-22
Let's see... the right is getting rid of teaching credentials needed to teach to let veterans teach school. And the right wants to defund libraries. Extreme teacher shortage only getting worse. We are f,ed for a generation

From: APauls
04-Aug-22
KSflatlander you're absolutely right about many atrocities. But those people are to Christ's teachings like a poacher is to a hunter. To an inexperienced eye they are the same, but in reality they are the most opposite of each other while being linked to the untrained eye. Nothing makes me cringe harder than hearing what some people do "in the name of God."

Christianity is very accepting and we welcome all. Unfortunately that means a lot of whack jobs that don't fit in anywhere else find it a safe haven and then you get the news articles...

From: KSflatlander
04-Aug-22
“Christianity is very accepting and we welcome all.”

Funny, there are a lot of “Christians” here that aren’t very accepting and definitely do not welcome all. Remember “kick them out of your camps.” I didn’t see you spreading the “be accepting” word on that thread.

I understand perfectly the history and context of world religion. They were not like a poacher is to hunting. It was the church not some lone person acting on their own. The Knights Templar. Much was some divine plan for expansion and concur and man thought God sanctioned it. How many times have you heard people here talk about killing muslins? No other descriptor. Just a Muslim. Wasn’t it Trump who wanted a travel ban on Muslims. Is Trump a poacher? I cringe every time someone minimizes the historical role of war and religion. As if we have learned so much.

From: sundowner
04-Aug-22
What APauls said.

04-Aug-22
I would never vote for today's socialist democrats. Furthermore, none are welcome in my social circles or hunting camp. They are against my values and way of life, why give them an inch? Yes, I will vote conservative.

From: 70lbDraw
04-Aug-22
“Wasn’t it Trump who wanted a travel ban on Muslims.”

Yeah, so what? Wasn’t it Muslims that pulled off the 9/11 attacks that killed US Citizens…In the name of Alah??! Biden is welcoming Muslim illegal aliens with open arms, all while declaring US Citizens and their religious beliefs as the actual terroristic threat. That makes a lot of sense. I know, I know; “But, But, the border is secure!” Says China Joe. As he is secretly continuing to install the fence sections they forced Trump to abandon.

The true irony here is the fact that the bowlibs all claim that trump was the one ruining the country and needed to go. I guess my blind ignorance is not allowing me to see all of the good that China joe is doing for our country.

From: soccern23ny
04-Aug-22
All y'all who hate socialist/socialism do you still take your SOCIAL security checks? And your medicare? I always love the mental gymnastics for justifying that.

From: Dale06
04-Aug-22
I take my social security and Medicare. It’s my money that I and my employers set aside for my retirement. Why would I not take my money?

From: TGbow
04-Aug-22
If I disagree with someone that doesn't mean I hate them or want to harm them. Most leftist want to force me to accept things I don't agree with. There are those on the right line that as well. I totally disagree with my father inlaw on politics but I think the world of him as a person.

From: soccern23ny
04-Aug-22
@dale... because social security and medicare is the epitome of "socialism". Yet people rail against socialism like it's the worst thing on earth but are literally waiting on ss and medicare to retire. Also how is medicare any different than universal healthcare?...... we all pay into a system and we all receive care/are covered. The only difference instead of starting at age 65 it starts at age 0

04-Aug-22
#1 Yes and #2 yes I'll be voting red but watching them like hawks. I'd like to retire on Medicare and hunt on public lands (two socialistic success stories)

From: TGbow
04-Aug-22
The point is we don't have a choice concerning SS and the likes. If I handles people's money in the private sector the way the government handles our money...I'd be in prison for extortion

From: sundowner
04-Aug-22
"All y'all who hate socialist/socialism do you still take your SOCIAL security checks? "

So, soccern23ny.....is that a public admission that you approve of socialists/socialism? Or that you are indeed a socialist?

From: Ken Taylor
04-Aug-22
The countries of the United States and Canada were founded on Christianity and/or Christian values. Whether a person is a "believer" or not, or of another faith, our culture is/was originally Christian. And, it was our Christian values that allowed others to change our countries into what they are today.

From: Ogoki
04-Aug-22
Phil Robertson of Duck Commander has written 6 books . I have read the first 5 and half way thru #6. He has it !! If you get bored this winter or on stand ,you might want to read some of his books . He tells it the way it is !!!

From: JohnMC
04-Aug-22
If you make 80K a year you and the company match each put in the required 6.2% that would $827 a month or $9920 a year. If you could do that on your own for 40 years and get a 8% return you would have roughly 2.5 millions. Make you realize how shitty of deal that 'Social' Security real is. In retirement invest that very conservatively and make just 4% and that is $8333 a month coming in and your piggy bank of 2.5 million just sits there. So soccermom that another great example of how socialism is a bad deal.

From: RonP
04-Aug-22
"Yet people rail against socialism like it's the worst thing on earth but are literally waiting on ss and medicare to retire."

If it wasn't for the SS system I am required to pay in to, I would already be retired and much wealthier. I wish I had the option to opt out, too late now but I would have 20-30 years ago. SS has delayed my retirement and reduced my wealth, like most socialist things and those that are government-controlled.

edit: the thing that warms my heart the most is knowing that i pay for government employee healthcare and pensions. i really fall asleep at night much faster and with lower blood pressure when i think about this.

From: TGbow
04-Aug-22
Yal won't convince those that believe in failed systems no matter what you say. Leftist don't want our guns, they are for the working people, even though they support forms of government that have failed for the last 100 plus years

From: bowhunt
04-Aug-22
I dont know how social security could be looked at as a hand out. I started working a real job on payroll the day it was legal, age 14.

If I paid $3000 per year into a mutual fund that averaged 10 percent, I would have 2.1 million dollars at age 59.

I’m fairly certain the social security contributions I am FORCED to make are an extremely poor investment in comparison.

The government gets my money for 45 years, then makes me a very small monthly payment until I die.

I have a feeling it would be illegal for a private company to even offer a scheme like this, let alone force people into it.

I INVESTED into social security, and as soon as I reach retirement age in 17 more years:( I damn sure am going to collect my piss poor returns on my INVESTMENT.

From: soccern23ny
04-Aug-22
Bowhunt... private companies do offer them. They were called pensions but sadly capitalism won and they are but a thing of the past.

It was socialism on a private scale and it worked until the greedy killed it. Coincidentally it correlates with the decline if unions. Another thing the right leadership hates

From: 70lbDraw
04-Aug-22
“It was socialism on a private scale and it worked until the unions killed it.”

Fixed it for you!

From: KSflatlander
04-Aug-22
If some of you don’t think social security is socialism then what happens when you have been paid all the money you paid in but you still live 10 more years. Where does that money come from? That’s exactly what socialism is. Socialism is a part of our system like it or not. The debate is not with or without but rather how much. Also I’m sure everyone of you strong capitalists gave your Trump checks back and paid back your PPP loans too.

JohnMC has a great plan until the stock market crashes and Americans and America is flat broke and can’t recover. The stock market is not a guarantee no matter what anybody says. It’s scary to think what would happen if our social security was in the stock market and we were attacked. We would fold like a cheap suit quickly. I’m not saying social security is the best but it’s better then mandatory participation in the stock market. An option to opt out and go it alone would be fine with me. If you go it alone then don’t expect socialism to save you things go south.

Don’t get me wrong, I want, no demand, capitalism as our major economic driver. However, I support social programs too. Blame on the Christian in me.

From: JohnMC
04-Aug-22
Show me a 40 year period where you would have come out ahead with your money going into a SS over the markets? If it ever got as bad as your hypothesis your SS check won't be worth the paper in written on either. That's why you better keep your guns and ammo.

04-Aug-22
The USA has been on the downgrade for a couple of decades. I see a socialist takeover within the next 20 years, simply from demographic changes, and the final financial disaster that always follows socialism shortly thereafter.

From: KSflatlander
04-Aug-22
“Show me a 40 year period where you would have come out ahead with your money going into a SS over the markets?“

I can’t. But can you tell me that there isn’t the possibility of catastrophic consequences if our social security was the stock market?

“If it ever got as bad as your hypothesis your SS check won't be worth the paper in written on either.”

Wait a minute. Are you telling me that the money, my money, I put into SS isn’t going in to an account set aside for me. You mean it’s possible I wouldn’t get it back if we had an economic depression. You mean all our money is pooled together then paid out. Even to those who didn’t pay as much as me and live longer. Does my estate get all my SS money I put in if I die at 62? That kinda sounds like socialism.

I get your point JohnMC and it’s a valid one.

From: DanaC
04-Aug-22
"Does my estate get all my SS money I put in if I die at 62? "

I know you're being ironic but, nope. A good friend who retired the same day I did opted not to collect SS for a few years. (Shop closing, no choice.) He passed away at 66, never got a penny back. Neither did his wife and kids. I started collecting the month after I left. Pays the bills, have a healthy IRA and 401-k when I need a bit extra.

No substitute for learning to save and starting young.

04-Aug-22
No and Yes.

From: Will tell
04-Aug-22
This meal has been cooking for the last 20 years. Now it's ready nobody wants to eat it.

From: TGbow
04-Aug-22
Social Security absolutely is Socialism.

The greedy didn't ruin SS, it's a bad system to begin with.

I still haven't seen a nation that has prospered from any Socialist, Marxist, Communist type system.

It's like a square wheel...no way for it to function right.

The problem with Socialism is " eventually you run out of other peopels money".

From: KSflatlander
04-Aug-22
TG- you bang that drum incessantly. How do you feel about police/fire/emt services, public roads, public land, farming subsidies, energy subsidies, Medicaid, WIC, public education, nutrition programs for the elderly, public transportation services, tax credits/deductions, school lunch programs, pell grants, job corps, public shelters, headstart, ect? Every single one of those is a SOCIAL Program (i.e., Socialism).

By the way, did you get a Trump check? If yes, what did you do with it?

From: TGbow
04-Aug-22
KS, most people understand you have to have some form of tax system for the Fire Dept, Police, etc. SS and 90% of the other crap is gov extortion. YES, I beat the drum because I can look around and see what happens when the gov gets involved deep in the private sector. As fat as Public schools, those that don't send their kids to public school shouldn't be paying a tax that 75 cents in the dollar gets soaked up by the bureaucrats. SS is nothing but forced extortion by the gov...if it were voluntary I would have no problem with it

From: KSflatlander
04-Aug-22
“KS, most people understand you have to have some form of tax system for the Fire Dept, Police, etc…”

No. You don’t have to have it as a public service. You could privatize it and charge per call for only those who use or get caught by the fire or police. So those things are just socialism that you agree with. Got it. That makes you a socialist based on your posts.

From: bowhunt
04-Aug-22
So any country in the world with any tax structure to fund government services is a socialist country.

Got it

From: bowhunt
04-Aug-22

bowhunt's embedded Photo
bowhunt's embedded Photo
Seems as though your personal definition might be different that just about anyone else.

04-Aug-22
Government involvement should be limited to activities that their involvement produces greater benefits than costs, such as with market externalities, but again only if the benefits are greater.

John, isn’t the real return on SS less than 2 percent for the average recipient? Ryan, it ought to be privatized, rounding up to a market average long term return of 8 percent, being that exponential functions are at play, the average retiree would have more than four times the amount they receive from SS.

Government could regulate risk taking to limit exposure, but your concern about a collapse is the old ‘if ifs and buts were candy and nuts…”. Your concern causes paralysis in reasonable risk taking forcing millions into a lower standard of living…that’s Socialism!

From: JohnMC
04-Aug-22
Flatbrimmer doing what he does best by throwing out red herrings. When talking about Capitalism versus socialism. Almost no one is suggesting 100% of either. It is all about degree. The vast majority of conservatives of course want fire and police. Really no one wants no form of welfare to the point kids are starving and living on the street. But most conservatives think the level it is at now is ridiculous. You can live off the governments tit in this country and live better than a good chunk of the world population. Some government is necessary. Those that can't see we have way too much of it and way too many people that don't pull their fair share can't see very clear. The big problem with the Democrat party is they want to make as many people as possible feel like they are a victim and that they need the government to take care of them by spending more and more dollars that hard-working people make.

From: KSflatlander
04-Aug-22
Bowhunt- if it’s a tax for a public service then it is social program/socialism by definition. They are producing a service…public safety. They are public servants that I greatly value and appreciate. They should be paid double what they are making.

Just because a public service has been there all your life, is engrained in our culture, and you value it does not exclude it as a social program (i.e., socialism).

From: 70lbDraw
04-Aug-22
“KS, most people understand you have to have some form of tax system for the Fire Dept, Police, etc…”

So why is the IRS being accused of hoarding ammo and possessing “automatic weapons”? Is that who they want to go door to door to collect firearms as tho they were taxes? Police and fire won’t do it, but they’ll be expected to protect the IRS actions as they do!

From: KSflatlander
04-Aug-22
“Almost no one is suggesting 100% of either”

Completely agree and I think I said something similar in this thread. However, labeling all democrats as socialist because the want more social programs (as TG does) is a fallacy.

“The big problem with the Democrat party is they want to make as many people as possible feel like they are a victim and that they need the government to take care of them by spending more and more dollars that hard-working people make.“

Completely agree.

70- I’m not following you down another conspiracy theory rabbit hole. The IRS criminal division has been carry guns (including automatic ones) for nearly 100 years. I’m worried about you man. When are you coming to KS to hunt?

From: JohnMC
04-Aug-22
Bowsite sucks when flatbrimmer completely agrees with you in twice in one post. ;)

From: Buffalo1
04-Aug-22
Sundowner if you are really interested in your subject questions, I would invite you to read 2 books that will give you a greater understanding on what's going on:

WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? (1st read) and THE BOOK OF SIGNS. (2nd read)

Both are authored by Dr. David Jeremiah

From: KSflatlander
04-Aug-22
Maybe it’s because I wear a curved bill now. I feel so much better with a curved bill and guys stopped hitting on me. Much better. Thanks for the push John.

From: HDE
04-Aug-22
"I cringe every time someone minimizes the historical role of [politics as] religion. As if we have learned so much."

From: JohnMC
04-Aug-22
I should be able to sleep tonight as long as soccermomny does not and start Agee with me.

From: 2Wild Bill
04-Aug-22
1-no, 2- yes

"It is when a people forget God, that tyrants forge their chains." - Patrick Henry

"No people that lost their character, kept their liberty" - Lawrence Reed

Convention of States has a solution created by the founders when they wrote the Constitution. Read all about it, https://conventionofstates.com/

From: Stix
04-Aug-22
It's all been prophesied.

As believers of The Way, you know how it ends.

04-Aug-22
I 100% agree with privatizing everything outside of taxes for the military. I believe subsidies should be cut off tomorrow. All of them. I believe SS is a joke. Only beaten by idiots who suggest a life long worker outlives what they contribute to it.

Gods plan is plain. Love the neighbor. Treat them as you want to be treated. If the government didn’t take it in taxes, I’m pretty certain most of us would chip into help the neighbor that’s sick and can’t work. Or who’s spouse has died and they need help raising Kids. Etc…..

I’m also certain Americans wouldn’t be so lousy with responsible living if there weren’t so many safe guards for them. Responsibility is a great thing when everyone is forced to be responsible for their decisions. Charity is awesome when given by direction of God. Instead of politicians getting kick backs in votes and campaign donations for creating the mess we have today.

Everything designed to take from someone in order to give to another by government is socialism. And, the flippin’ problem.

Think about how stronger our economy would be with the tax revenue collected, left in consumers hands. Think about the wealth. Think about the freedom. Think about how much better community’s would be if the church was responsible for giving things to those in need versus the government.

Human nature never has or never will change. Nothing we do is perfect. Everything we do is tainted by it. The problems we have only has one fix. Period. That’s why I’m the most conservative person alive. Because I know if we lived by the rules in the Bible, God would take care of us all. Abundantly better then we do for ourselves.

From: TGbow
04-Aug-22
KS, you need to study up on government t systems.

Funded public entities like Fire Dept, Police, is not Socialism.

Redistribution of wealth by the government, taking from one private citizen and giving it to another is Socialism.

Regardless, what we call it...we could do without 90% of the tax dollars extracted from the private sector.

I know it's foreign to today's culture but there is a reason we had no Federal Income tax before 1913..the USSC threw Lincolns Fed Income Tax out at the end of the war because it was ruled " unconstitutional". KS, you have yet to give us a good example of Socialist, Marxist type governments that have prospered.

Yes, we have been moving toward it more n more over the years...and look at the shape we are in. The harder you work the more you get penalized..and your money is given to somebody elae..in most cases somebody that don't WANT to work...or given to some corporate welfare scheme

From: Jim McNamara
04-Aug-22
This Country sent God packing. That has consequences. We are seeing and feeling those now. There is only one Savior and it's not a politician.

From: TGbow
04-Aug-22
Sometimes God will give a nation what they "think" they want.

Even secular history shows us what happens to a nation that forgets God.

From: KSflatlander
04-Aug-22
“KS, you have yet to give us a good example of Socialist, Marxist type governments that have prospered.“

I haven’t done that because pure socialism doesn’t work. It’s been proven over and over. Please link any thread where I advocated that we should end capitalism and go to pure socialism. Maybe you should read JohnMC post on the subject.

“KS, you need to study up on government t systems. Funded public entities like Fire Dept, Police, is not Socialism.“

You can call it whatever you want if it makes you feel better. I think it’s you that needs to read up on it more. Furthermore, you can try to demonize 150 million fellow Americans (democrats) as socialist but I don’t see a socialist society or economy in their platform. Do they want more social programs than conservatives. Yes. Does that make them socialists and Marxists. No (A great tactic now would be to find some extremist socialists idiot and color those 150 million fellow Americans as evil socialists/Marxist but remember two can play that game).

“Yes, we have been moving toward it more n more over the years...and look at the shape we are in. The harder you work the more you get penalized..and your money is given to somebody elae..in most cases somebody that don't WANT to work...or given to some corporate welfare scheme“

Did you or did you not get a Trump check? Did your employer or any of your family get a Trump check or PPP loan? If yes, what did you do with it?

From: Shaft2Long
05-Aug-22
“ Maybe if you stopped consuming right wing “news” for a month you will be more optimistic. You should try it.”

Yep, ignoring the obvious and pretending everything is just fine is a great way to deal.

APPauls gets a “like”.

From: TGbow
05-Aug-22
KS, if full blown Socialism doesn't work, why do you support those that go even beyond Socialism to the next extreme? I'm not just talking about Democrats either.

From: KSflatlander
05-Aug-22
TG- I’ll answer your question after you answer mine. I’ve asked it twice now.

From: Brotsky
05-Aug-22
This shit on Bowsite gets better all the time. I've seen theories in this thread everywhere from Alex Jones to The Mandalorian. I love it! I hope we can keep these threads going forever!

From: Will
05-Aug-22
I'm still trying to figure out how not being far right makes one bad or a poor US citizen. Especially since pretty much everything that helped shape our nation into the amazing place it is since Lincoln (and including him) would be considered "socialism/communist/liberal" at least by the definition that seems to be used in Bowsite discussions.

Lets be crystal. Socialism is the state ownership of the means of production. So, in a socialistic system, outside some dinky little businesses, the state owns it all. Outside California looking at producing insulin to reduce costs for citizens, I'm stuck finding it impossible to see actual socialism in America outside dog whistles and gas lighting that's gone on since The New Deal (even before via some in various "Nationalist" movements).

Communism is barely definable and basically end term socialism, IE, not happening here.

Capitalism exists with varied amounts of regulation in most liberal democracies (like our constitutional republic). No, taxing a business or putting safety regs or environmental regs or what not on a business is NOT socialism or communism. Rules just help keep things humming.

A conservative claiming all "liberals" are socialists and commies is analogous to me saying all "conservatives" are authoritarians. Both would be untrue by a long ways. Both are overused to the point that they make people think what they dont like is one of those labels.

Said better, because you dont like a policy/concept, does not make it socialism, communism, authoritarianism, etc. Not liking something just means you dont like it.

Now, you know what does make me lose sleep a bit and feel sad when considering the future for America? Going away from the liberal democracy our constitutional republic has been from the start, and towards an illiberal democracy. I read a great description of this a while back that was something like this: illiberal democracy is what you get when everything good about liberal democracy, like tolerance, trust, secular gvmt, rule of law, political equality are hollowed out and people only think of the second word, democracy - so absolute rule by 50.00001% of the folks who vote. I copied that from a book I read last winter but am forgetting which one. It's not my definition, but it's a good one.

That's exactly what is happening in places like Brazil, India, Turkey, Hungary... It's holding an election, but then spending your time in power doing all you can to prevent future political challengers and remove the rights from others. All that matters is winning and holding as much power as possible.

"leaders" of illiberal democracies are not necessarily authoritarians, but when democracy trends towards the illiberal, it opens the door to that possibility. Be it from the right or left, I want ZERO part of that.

Taken further, having a liberal democracy is what helps our capitalistic economic system work as well as it has/does. Interestingly, it's lead to great progress during times when it was far more "constrained" by gvmt regs than it has been the past couple decades or past 5-6 years... And it's done great with fewer gvmt regs too.

So, there are reasonable approaches to improving the economic situation and lifestyle of people in the US from different angles. And because our nation is a leader, and has always sought ways to grow, we tend to push and seek new opportunities and better situations. That means we dont sit on our laurels happy with what we accomplished, we keep looking for ways to improve, for all. Doesnt always work short term, but over a few centuries it's worked fantastically.

Any way, back to the key point of the thread. The US as with all nations, has issues that need to be improved. But wow, overall, it's awesome.

From: TGbow
05-Aug-22
I did get a Trump check...it wasn't money given to me because I payed a whole lot more in taxes.

If it were up to me, everything would be in the private sector except the military.

No federal income tax but a national sales tax sort of system.

We are a far cry from a free enterprise, free market. Look at everything the gov gets involved in...they screw it up..in the private sector.

You are a smart guy..look around at the states that have adopted big giv leftist policies

From: 2Wild Bill
05-Aug-22
"Did you or did you not get a Trump check? " He gave us a great economy, which has since been shreadded.

05-Aug-22
The American people gave us a great economy! And will again.

From: TGbow
05-Aug-22
The economy would be fine if the gov just got out of the way

From: spike78
05-Aug-22
Will I love ya man BUT. Biden shutdown the border wall project and is now finishing to fix his mistake and improve his ratings. Trying to lower gas prices because his Keystone Pipeline mistake and to improve his ratings. I do not for one but believe our unemployment is actually this low as I see help wanted signs everywhere and all places I go to and deal with are short handed. This new bill will do nothing but raise taxes and help Manchins state. The fact that the US will not admit we are in a recession just shows how deceptive they are to the people. And let’s not get started on the blind eye with Pelosi's insider trading that nobody cares about but if it were Trump we all know the FBI would come knocking.

05-Aug-22
I don't believe that the country's biggest problems are due to its decrease in religiousness. If I were to list the 3 people I know in my life that are the biggest douche bags and horrible people that I know, they are also some of the most religious people I know as well. Some religious people use religion as an excuse to treat people horribly and that is not confined to Christianity by any means.

That said, I do worry about the country's trajectory and what I feel are social experiments that are assumed to be fact.

But, I do have faith in the USA. It's still the best thing that the world has going for it when it comes to protecting the world from descending into what the world was for its entire history, and that is, tyranny, war, and non-stop human suffering.

If and when a global crisis breaks out, I still think that the USA will bounce back and lead the world through it and come out on top.

From: TGbow
05-Aug-22
Raising taxes always effects the working class...if you own a business and you start paying more taxes...you either pass the cost on or close your doors..leftist claim to be for the working class but in reality it's the total opposite. We weren't paying $4 a gallon for gas until slippery Joe n his Marxist cronies took over

From: JohnMC
05-Aug-22
Spike said "I do not for one but believe our unemployment is actually this low as I see help wanted signs everywhere and all places I go to and deal with are short handed"

That actually is a sign of low unemployment. More jobs than the number of people wanting them is low unemployment. The unemployment number is the percentage of people that want to work that is not working. Maybe a little simple of a definition but basically it.

The issue is the number of people that don't want to work. Those that are retired, in school things like that are fine. The issue is currently there are a lot of people that historically would be in the work force that are not. Because they can get enough money mainly from the government to not have to work is the big one. I think drugs is another reason. Look at the number of people living on the streets. Five years ago at least in my area it was not a common sight. Today they are everywhere. Currently there is not enough political backbone to do anything about it, so that probably is getting worse.

From: DanaC
05-Aug-22
"Currently there is not enough political backbone to do anything about it..."

And what would you DO about it? A government jobs program? Slavery? People who don't *want* to work probably don't because the available jobs are crap. (There seems to be a shortage of _ambitious_ workers too.)

Yeah, I could work at the donut shop for minimum wage but why should I?

There's a shortage of _good_ jobs, jobs that aren't dead ends or that will allow you to grow and make more money.

Hey, someday you could be *managing* this donut shop for the owner. And get a whole two dollars an hour more. Yeah, shove that!

And before you bring up 'manufacturing' remember you're competing against robots - and a billion Chinese and Indians who will work for a third of what it takes to make it here.

PS No, I don't know the 'answer' either.

From: azelkhntr
05-Aug-22
I'm retired but last fall I took a job because no one else would do it. If the kids don't want the money then I'll take it. That extra cash has really come in handy in this recession economy. We tried socialism twice in this country. Plymouth colony lost over half its population as did Jamestown. These were completely homogenous ventures. Everyone involved were from the same race and culture and they still nearly failed initially. The question is why? The answer is always the same. Greed, lust, power and envy. 4 critical human failings.

From: spike78
05-Aug-22
Bingo JohnMC. So with all that you said how in the hell can the rate be 3.5%? I believe that as much as the inflation rate being 9.1% in which it’s not because the Dems excluded food and energy. How convenient!

From: JohnMC
05-Aug-22
Dana - for one a system that taking the donut shop job is a better alternative than government handout because there are less of them.

Hopefully the guy that thinks work at a donut shop sucks will find a way to get skills that would get him or her where they desire in life.

But your attitude is also what is wrong with so many. Many think the jobs they are capable of is below them (working at a donut shop for minimum wage). Yet they won't do what it takes to get to the point they can do what believe is worthy of them. Talk to guys in the trades that pay a decent wage they can't find anyone with a work ethic. But if the government safety net is so that folks never get to a point things suck enough to motivate them move up in the employment world nothing changes.

Last drugs have got to be cracked down on. Get off drugs and the street or go to jail.

From: Anglinscreek
05-Aug-22
Bowsite is so much better without politics.

From: spike78
05-Aug-22
Dana, my first job was for $4.25 an hour and now MA minimum wage is $15 so I sure as hell would not be complaining if I was 16 years old again.

From: TGbow
05-Aug-22
Before I was born my Dad got out of the Air Force for a year but went back in later.

During the time he was out his car broke down and he needed a Jon. My mama told me he walked for miles in the Ft worth area until he found a job on a ranch. The rancher picked him up and took him home until he bought a car. Before he left the job with the rancher he paid him gas money which the rancher didn't want to take.

It's not just the young folks that don't want to work...I work with some in their 40s n 50s that are lazy as the day is long. We have a lot of folks in this culture that want something for nothing

From: TGbow
05-Aug-22
Before I was born my Dad got out of the Air Force for a year but went back in later.

During the time he was out his car broke down and he needed a Jon. My mama told me he walked for miles in the Ft worth area until he found a job on a ranch. The rancher picked him up and took him home until he bought a car. Before he left the job with the rancher he paid him gas money which the rancher didn't want to take.

It's not just the young folks that don't want to work...I work with some in their 40s n 50s that are lazy as the day is long. We have a lot of folks in this culture that want something for nothing

05-Aug-22
The first steps to starting a great chain of donut shops is learning how to make donuts, learning customer service, learning how a business operates and learning how to manage people.

Entry level jobs can be amazing educational opportunies but you get paid instead of paying. Whether a job is a dead end is usually a choice the employee makes.

From: HDE
05-Aug-22
Brotsky - this "shit" on Bowsite wouldn't be an issue if more threads were locked and deleted. Maybe you should become a moderator to help?

From: azelkhntr
05-Aug-22
I volunteer to be a moderator for BS.

From: DanaC
05-Aug-22
"The first steps to starting a great chain of donut shops is learning how to make donuts, learning customer service, learning how a business operates and learning how to manage people. "

Yup, and then you're butting heads with the big established chains. Can't swing a dead cat around here without hitting a 'Dunkin'. (And there are big deep pockets buying up franchises.)

PS Spike, my first job payed $2/hour. (Not counting part-time stuff while I was in school.) Funny thing is, gas was 29.9 cents for regular...

From: JohnMC
05-Aug-22
Dana there are two types of people, those that can find a reason nothing will work and those that will find a way to make it work. Easy enough to figure which one you are.

From: Brotsky
05-Aug-22
Nate I would be happy to. I’d also be happy to get rid of the crazies that start them and post in them all the time! :)

From: JohnMC
05-Aug-22
Brotsky honest question and I got in on this one even though I rarely do post on the political threads. If all the political threads went away do you think there would be more archery threads or just less thread. I read some of these when I am bored and have time to kill because it kills a few minutes. But a lot of time I just skip them all together. If they went away and were replaced by thread like a hunt recap I am all for it. If it just less threads what is the point.

From: sundowner
05-Aug-22
It's not politics. It's the destruction of this nation as it was founded. You should care about that.

From: azelkhntr
05-Aug-22
Learn to moderate yourself in all things and most of your problems will abate.

From: fuzzy
05-Aug-22
There's nothing new about our beloved Nation putting despicable, corrupt, self serving people in power (U S Grant, Andrew Jackson, and Richard Nixon spring to mind) or supporting evil social constructs (chattel slavery, forcible removal of indigenous people, state supported chemical castration, Federal military invasion of sovereign States, state sanctioned abortion to name a few) what our Country has had in the past is a collective desire to do better and be better, an attitude which was once founded on Christian principles. The widely held and propagated nonsense that the Founders intended to create an Agnostic society and the oft quoted and false concept of a Constitutionally mandated "separation of Church and State " (hint, it doesn't say that anywhere) seem to have led to a drift away from these principles and left "us" adrift.

From: DanaC
05-Aug-22
Always with the insults John. I'm a realist - I know when the game is rigged. And a lot of young people have figured it out too. They're doing what people talked about back in the '60's - tune in, turn on and drop out. Because corporate America has told them "you can be replaced."

From: Rocky D
05-Aug-22
“ I know when the game is rigged. And a lot of young people have figured it out too.”

This is our number one problem in America!

We should all end up millionaires!

From: Mint
05-Aug-22
If we had an honest media and social media it would go a long way to making this country better. When they say Republicans want to ban books it tells a different narrative then showing the content on why those books should be banned, heck some of them qualify as child porn, one school board banned the reading of an example on the televised meeting since they knew the FCC would fine them. These books aren't like Huckleberry Finn or To Kill a Mockingbird either. Now we have a "new" definition of what is a recession etc. The problem is most of the population is ill informed. I live in New York and crime has gone crazy here and they still won't change the bail laws to hold violent subjects. the one bright spot is the red states are getting redder so when hopefully when i retire in five years i can leave this liberal hell hole and let the voters here get what they deserve by voting these corrupt politicians in.

From: KSflatlander
05-Aug-22
TG- the Covid stimulus was $5 trillion. We bring in about $5 trillion in taxes per year. Something does add up here cause the other budget expenses didn’t go away. I didn’t get a Trump check or PPP loan. I got penalized because I make too much. You got a Trump check aka my money. Isn’t that taking for others and giving it to someone else. It’s freaking socialism and Trump signed all the checks. Apparently you voted for a socialist. That’s your logic. See how dumb that sounds.

Based on that. You’re more of a freaking socialist than I am and your personal convictions meant nothing when it came to your personal finances. You could have donated the money to charity. Or bought a government bond. So SPARE me the freaking stupid socialist drum you have been pounding on.

By the way, I have a 50/50 voting record on Ds and Rs in national elections. I have never voted for a Marxist in my life. We have never had a Marxist on the ballot for president for pete sake. And not your stupid #%$ definition that was given to you by right wing nuts. And if you say Obama then you’re a weak minded fool and should see someone about your condition.

Ok I’m out. Rough day. Time for a beer.

From: JohnMC
05-Aug-22
Dana of course, you can be replaced. I've never thought an employer owned me anything except for the work I have performed. Just like you can replace your employer if you have a better offer, decided to work for yourself, or I guess want to live off the government. However, any decent employers are going to try and retain an employee that makes them money and not a pain in their ass. I've been on both sides. Once I was on a conference call with 1500 coworkers and they laid us all off on that call. But I made good money for 12 years with that company and contributed a lot of money to 401k they matched at 125%. I cried in a beer that night and found another company to move on to. Anyone with skills and/or and education, especially right now should have no issue find a good job.

Take it as an insult if you like but if you think any company owes you a job until you are ready to retire, or the system is always rigged against you probably entitled and not someone most would want to work for them. A company is paying you for one reason for you to make money for them. Most the time if that is happening you are in pretty good shape.

From: DanaC
05-Aug-22
" “ I know when the game is rigged. And a lot of young people have figured it out too.”

This is our number one problem in America!

We should all end up millionaires! ""

No, but an honest day's work should earn you a living wage.

I mentioned above that I worked (1973) at $2 an hour. Which back then bought you 6 gallons of gasoline. Today at a $15/hr job, an hour's work doesn't buy you 4 gallons. Kids today may suck at math but their cell phones have calculators. And they know the future ain't so bright.

You want optimists? Let more immigrants in.

From: Norseman
05-Aug-22
Donkey Pox is the main virus we should be worried about.

From: sundowner
05-Aug-22
Donkey Pox is the virus I'm NOT worried about...??

From: Norseman
05-Aug-22
Donkey…not monkey.

From: TGbow
05-Aug-22
KS..quit voting for leftist that penalize you for making more.

I got some of my extorted money back Is what happened.

From: TGbow
05-Aug-22
I think the more you make your taxe rate should drop more.

From: scentman
05-Aug-22
I started my new job in 2022, got a 5.9% percent raise, I am getting another 10.5 % for 2023. Where else could you get a 16+% raise your first two years? Good career decision I guess. Lighten up on SS... if you put into it, you deserve it... if you did not contribute shut your pie hole. Brotsky, I agree with you... but your to young to be a cranky old complainer. ;0)

From: azelkhntr
05-Aug-22
How about we eliminate the IRS and the payroll tax and go to a straight 3% consumption sales tax? How about we eliminate property taxes for everyone over the age of 65? How about we do away with SS as it is now and let people invest their money themselves like adults?

From: DanaC
05-Aug-22
AZ, do you understand 'regressive taxation' and why it hurts low-income people the most?

From: spike78
05-Aug-22
Brotsky said if he was a moderator he would get rid of people who he didn’t agree with their views. Hmm how anti 1st Amendment dictator of you.

05-Aug-22
That’s bs. Nothing he said there would hurt low income people.

From: TGbow
05-Aug-22
High taxes hurt middle n low income folks more than anybody. There's never been a nation that taxed their way to prosperity..ain't gonna happen

From: DanaC
05-Aug-22
"That’s bs. Nothing he said there would hurt low income people. "

" go to a straight 3% consumption sales tax?"

Low income people spend proportionally more of their income on necessities - food, clothing, housing etc., so a straight sales/consumption taxes hurts them more. This is Economics 101 stuff.

From: TGbow
05-Aug-22
Tom, I think we've been so conditioned to think all these taxes is the norm. I'm all for a sales tax at a low enough rate.

Most people realize the gov doesn't need near the amount of taxes they extort. Both our political parties have forgotten that they work for us and not visa versa.

Government has too much control as a whole. When you pay taxes in to fund the police or Fire Dept that's one thing but when you tax one citizen and give it to someone else that's redistribution of wealth. Yes, I got my Trump money..just a small portion of what I had already paid in for the last 46 years. But, maybe the rest of our nation can become " like California" as the president said. That's a scary thought.

From: Mule Power
05-Aug-22
Regardless of mine or anyone else’s answers or opinions the democrats suck. Totally mindless MFers with a demented agenda that they will do anything to achieve. Including destroying this country.

From: Stix
05-Aug-22
MARANATHA!

From: Woods Walker
06-Aug-22
Mule hits the 12 ring!!!

From: PECO2
06-Aug-22

PECO2's embedded Photo
PECO2's embedded Photo

From: Bowbender
06-Aug-22
Dana,

"No, but an honest day's work should earn you a living wage."

Define both and we can have a conversation. Average home prices in my area are right around ~$300K. Figger 20% down, $240K mortgage. Based on rule of thumb of a mortgage should be 2.5x yearly income puts that at $96K per year. $46/hour. For doing .......

From: TGbow
06-Aug-22
Peter, at the end of the day..both sides of the leadership meet behind closed doors and make their deals..and we the people lose more freedom and money

From: scentman
06-Aug-22
An arrow has three vanes... left, right and center... depending on how you look at it. ;0)

From: Old Bow
06-Aug-22
Mule power x 1000

06-Aug-22
The democratic party is fully supported by HSUS, the ASPCA, Friends of Animals, PETA and other anti hunting groups. What the hell are some of you loser hunters thinking of ?

From: Matt
06-Aug-22
Curated news and the advent of social media which give extremists at both ends of the political spectrum an outsized voice in politics are the factors most significantly to blame for the perception by some that America is deteriorating. The good things is it is within our power to ignore both and get on with living happy lives by focusing on things we can control or influence rather than become fixated by things we can't - and which may not even be true in the first place.

Add to that the current structure of political parties and their nomination system which essentially eliminates the prospect of getting centrist candidates, there are those who will confuse the ebb and flow of social trends as the beginning of the end of our republic.

From: bigeasygator
06-Aug-22
Bingo^

From: bowhunt
06-Aug-22
Trying working Portland Oregon.

It’s not imaginary that pretty much every part of the city you see feral human crazed drug addicts sleeping and roaming along the streets.

They lash out and stab or beat people, random people are shot and robbed. They steal to fuel their drug addictions. They also just randomly vandalize, and destroy stuff. The drugs they are on have completely fried their brains permanently. City office building g have never reopened downtown after Covid, it’s literally to dangerous for the employees. Other private businesses have had the same issue.

Beyond the crazed drug addicts criminals have gotten the message loud and clear they are free to do whatever they want.

I Business aren’t closing their doors because of fake news stories, it’s because the “leadership” has destroyed this place.

Just 10-15 years ago, it was always tin the top 10-20 cities for this or that. In the last few years the only thing I’ve seen Portland ranked in a top 10 ten list for is naked bike riding last week. (Besides top rise in crime and murder rates)

Last year my family business had around $20,000 in theft vandalism and destruction. This year it’s on track to be a little higher. I have live here my entire life, and it has turned into an absolute *#it hole.

To an extent I do agree about not watching the news to put you in a better mood. They definitely amplify certain things and twist reality.

The best thing I probably ever did was move out of Portland to another nearby city and county. As soon as you cross the city/county li es around Portland it’s a whole different world. Now I just have to work in that turd hole 50ish hours a week.

A huge majority of the city looks like a combination of a max max movie and Gotham City from Batman.

The leadership of the city has really embraced “progressive” Or “liberal” ideas/ theories, and it has been an ENORMOUS failure leading to shuttered businesses, injuries, death, and enormous loss of quality of life for the residents.

It is really sad to see what has happened to this place, and good luck finding someone who lives here that can just click off the news and begin living a wonderful happy life here. You live and see the news stories with your own eyes every day.

Moral of the story, if you live in a place where these ideas/ theories haven’t been tried out yet, you may want to pay attention to how the story ends when the do it.

From: bowhunt
06-Aug-22
I also agree with Matt’s point on the ebb and flow of political and social issues.

You can see it happening across the country.

I believe it will just take longer in the more progressive/ liberal areas to start swinging back towards what seems more “normal”.

Portland has fallen so far down, but I think it will have to fall further until even more voters feel the negative impact of what has been done to this place.

Portland worthless mayor was re-elected , only because his opponent was an open communist and antifa supporter. 2 years ago she may have won.

When a majority of people feel the impacts of policies they either like it or don’t, and that is when the changes can happen.

Unfortunately these swings take years/decades to happen. So you get to live through the bad for a while until it gets better.

From: Matt
06-Aug-22
bowhunt, sorry to hear you are having to deal with that. Portland has taken a far worse turn than most of the rest of the country.

On the flip side, per FBI crime stats the U.S. violent crime rate has fallen from over 500/100K in 2000 to under 400 in 2019 (most recent stat year). Most who watch the news dutifully wouldn't believe it despite that being the sort of thing that should be reported. Portland (and our own San Francisco) seem/s to be bucking the national trend unfortunately, but my sense is things will normalize in time. Here in CA, we are already seeing a pretty significant backlash against progressive DA's and their light sentencing and no cash bail policies and the appalling results. Same with some school boards. Hopefully that is one positive trend we can export to OR rather than our typical progressive BS.

From: Matt
06-Aug-22
PECO2, in response to your caption above, quite a few Bowsiters would tell you that the notion of birds having a left and right wing is conspiracy theory perpetuated by the liberal media establishment but that was debunked by a video they found on Youtube by the guy who invented flight.

From: JohnMC
06-Aug-22
Why is it only the leftist that is always tell us that nothing is changing only little fringe groups making all the noise and there is nothing to worry about or extreme? Except when it comes to Trump of course.

From: TGbow
06-Aug-22
John, it seems those that support the leftist tend to deny the facts and make excuses. Like when a leftist says " they're not trying to take away your guns, just military grade weapons". People believe that rhetoric and deny the fact that they want total control.

06-Aug-22
Throw the dems out of your hunting camps, do it now!

From: spike78
06-Aug-22
Matt I totally agree with what you are saying. If we don’t watch the media we technically don’t know what is going on except unfortunately the cost of everything is telling us something without the media talking.

From: spike78
06-Aug-22
TGbow, yup first it will be the “assault weapons” then it will be oh the handguns are doing most of the crime then those will be next. Give an inch take a mile.

From: Ken Taylor
06-Aug-22
Remember the term "boys and girls"... and the one "ladies and gentlemen" - well, I guess that those are now politically incorrect terms.

Seriously, a couple of days ago on the Canadian national news the news anchorwoman (while speaking about an event) nonchalantly mentioned that all men, woman, and transexuals were welcome.

From: spike78
06-Aug-22
Well the new bill just passed. I’m sure since it’s named the Inflation Reduction bill that is what is gonna happen lol. And I’m sure the 15% corporate tax won’t have any affect on jobs or a trickle down affect on us minions. Geez and look at all the free money for clean energy!! It’s like Christmas!

From: spike78
06-Aug-22
By 2024 we will have even higher taxes for clean energy, higher gas prices, WAY higher electric bills, higher food prices and shortages. IF I am wrong I will never doubt our government again.

From: TGbow
06-Aug-22
Brad, maybe we will be the first nation to tax our way to prosperity..?

From: Matt
07-Aug-22
":Matt I totally agree with what you are saying. If we don’t watch the media...."

I am not suggesting to not watch the news, but rather seek out more objective sources. Ditch Fox, CNN, MSN, etc. and look at Reuters, AP, BBC, and the like. It won't make you feel all warm and fuzzy by pandering to your biases. But it also won't make you stupid...

From: shade mt
07-Aug-22
Fact #1....the worst kind of ignorance is to continue to blindly follow a lie, after being told the truth....look around folks, do the words "blind leading the blind"...look familiar?

Fact #2.....don't blame the Bible and Christianity, for the failures people make that claim to be christian. Blame them for not practicing what they preach.

Fact #3....christianity= new testament, the old testament " was" a schoolmaster that prepared man for the new....

Fact4#......you cannot be nuetral, or ride the middle of the road, sooner or later you will have to choose.

Fact 6#...how on earth did we get this far?.....one small step at a time

From: Woods Walker
07-Aug-22
Yes...unchecked and unverified. Deterioration indeed!!

From: RonP
07-Aug-22
"Its all relative as thousands a day pour over the border from 150 countries."

I do not see it being relative at all and in fact, it is actually one of the causes of deterioration. allowing illegal entry and sanctuary cities are a complete disregard for the law.

From: Woods Walker
07-Aug-22
Laws? We have laws? Oh wait....just for deplorables. Got it.

From: HDE
07-Aug-22
And, for that guy that thinks wars and atrocities are because of [Christian] religion - nothing could be further from the truth. Religion doesn't cause that. People's misinterpretation and misuse of religion does...

From: fuzzy
07-Aug-22
HDE I missed that response. Which one was it??

From: azelkhntr
07-Aug-22

azelkhntr's embedded Photo
azelkhntr's embedded Photo

From: TGbow
07-Aug-22
Tom, no I didn't...it started over 100 yrs ago but I never thought I'd see it escalate so quickly..in full throttle.

Thank you Woodrow Wilson and Teddy Roosevelt for pushing us toward the " progressive era".

From: gflight
07-Aug-22
It's only the leftist cities that are deteriorating.

.

Democrats are accelerating inflation but they will be done in November and we "may" have gridlock for a bit before the Republicans start doing it.

The main problem I have is the Democrats with their judicial appointment activists that try to make law and the subjects that they have convinced that they are victims that riot on a moment's notice.

Look at all the democratic congress people who were protesting at the Supreme Court. They are the lawmakers they write law!

After the SCOTUS interpreted the law they should have done something besides incite violence. Like their jobs. But democrats are to dumb to realize that and cheer them on with their fake handcuffs.

If violence is incited on the other team it's an insurrection.

Before you start thinking I am a trumpette, when politicians are in fear it's serious. When the subjects burn down their neighborhood it's political clout.

We are in a great way as long as we remain diligent and should watch all news sources because the difference between conspiracy and fact is time.

Finally, keep an eye on those violent leftists as they try to build momentum to overthrow our republic....

From: gflight
08-Aug-22
Speaking of news and social media....

.

Meta itself says “the program isn’t meant to interfere with individual expression, opinions and debate, clearly satirical or humorous content, or business disputes.” The debate about a recession would appear to fall within “individual expression, opinions and debate.” Why did fact checkers get to pass judgment on this content? And why did Meta take down the content at their behest? Did it threaten “imminent physical harm” to someone? Or just political harm to the Biden administration? A reasonable person might wonder.

From: gflight
08-Aug-22
Speaking of the lying media....

.

What media outlets are putting out the truth about Monkey Pox?

The major ones are not because political correctness is more important than a public health emergency (Bidenleftists designation)

The messaging is tangled in a vortex of leftist thought about how offensive it would be to communicate the majority of the currently infected people are men who have sex with men.

Back during covid I got my info from health systems like those in the United Kingdom, Israel and South Africa because everything was sponsored by Pfizer here in the U.S.

Media is all propaganda and reminds me of the Mark Twain quote...

“IF YOU DON’T READ THE NEWSPAPER, YOU’RE UNINFORMED. IF YOU DO, YOU’RE MISINFORMED.”

From: South Farm
08-Aug-22
If you claim to be a Christian you better start living your life for Christ's return and quit putting so much faith in politicians. Too many people think winning an election can save them and make 'em (finally) happy and content. That hunger can only be satisfied one way and one way only. Start living for that day, because the results of that election will last a whole lot longer than the ones made in November..

08-Aug-22
no...yes

there are two things i will never do...vote for a democrat or vote to raise my own taxes.

From: gflight
08-Aug-22
I last voted democrat in 2011. Short of Tulsi there are none that wish to uphold the Constitution or rule of law. They want a democracy not a republic where they control the propaganda and the people.

From: Will
08-Aug-22
I never thought I would live through a LITERAL coup directed by a former president of the United States of America. But here we are. And I didnt even need a meme to think it, I lived it and get to watch people describe it as "legitimate political discourse", and hold events with leaders literally viewed as authoritarian wannabee's by basically all non authoritarian governments on earth as one of the key note speakers.

If one would like to see the RISK of deterioration in America. Watch some CPAC.

From: Treeline
08-Aug-22
You sure about who was behind the coup there, Will?

Seems as though the communists/leftists/Marxists did carry out a successful coup of the United States in 2020…

From: gflight
08-Aug-22
Will,

.

You seem to be one of those leftists that are "definition"ally challenged.

Radicals who thought they could get away with what the leftists did all summer went in to trash stuff.

If it was their own neighborhood no one would have cared. But your leftist rulers and other politicians were scared which resulted in a political show.

So far from a Coup/insurrection it is laughable except to hyper partisans leftists such as yourself.

Should have had Trump raising money for their bail like Kamala did. Then tried and served their time.

From: TGbow
08-Aug-22
There's a coup alright..by the leftist

From: azelkhntr
08-Aug-22
Americas precipitous decline is directly proportional to the growth in power of the anti-Christ spirit. The way is being paved.

From: Stubbleduck
08-Aug-22
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.” John Kennedy (U.S. Senator from Louisiana) No relation to the former President Kennedy

If one accepts that to date the success of the United States has been in large part a more or less continuous acceptance of relatively peaceful revolution. As I view the current political currents I fear the above quote is very true.

From: spike78
08-Aug-22
Will, what do you call the non stop attempts to impeach Trump after he won the election? Their were riots in the streets after he won. This Jan 6th garbage is just that garbage. A real insurrection would have involved an armed take over. Hell Antifa created more havoc. Stop nibbling the bait before you get caught.

From: DanaC
08-Aug-22
Spike, it wasn't an insurrection only because Trump's 'warriors' pussed out. Trump is still headed for the gallows.

From: KSflatlander
08-Aug-22
“Will, what do you call the non stop attempts to impeach Trump after he won the election?“

A process sanctioned by the constitution of the U.S.

From: spike78
08-Aug-22
Trump raided by the FBI. Here we go again. The FBI went from catching serial killers and multi state child abductors to a Political police force. This country is so screwed.

From: South Farm
09-Aug-22
Raids in the middle of the night, Hiring 87,000 additional IRS agents (THINK about that for a minute!)...what are they so afraid of??? SOMETHING big and bad is coming; I can only pray Jesus gets here first!!!

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