Are we afraid?? Ukraine...
General Topic
It's seems inevitable that Ukraine will bring the rest of us to war to fight Belarus and Russia. It's obvious Canada has nothing to send but feet on the ground. But all the other allies and yes Canada, seem to be sitting on the fence watching the demise of an Allie. Do you think waiting is strategic or a BIG mistake.
I think the USA getting directly involved in conflicts all over the world when we are not being attacked, is a mistake, aka Vietnam nam, Iraq, Afghanistan,……
You were not being attacked during the first part of WWW 2. USA joined (Declared War ) in the effort in what, 1941? When Pearl Harbour happened. Canada was on the ground fighting in WWW 2 from 1939 onward. Corrected dates
Would it be better to wait for another Pearl Harbour to join or be proactive.
Or maybe Trump had the right idea. Save lives and let the Russians have Ukraine.
We...America .... has our own problems WE caused ... WE were 'sleeping' and let our corrupt government & politicians and Big Business 'change' Our America! All 'The Alphabet Departments' (ATF, CDC, WHO, IRS, FBI, Homeland Security, U N .....the list goes on and on and NO ONE does anything to stop this .... So, UKRAINE needs to defend its self .... THEY were / are a corrupt government also anyway ..... It's The Poor Descent Honest People that suffer the most ..... Biden & The Dems are bleeding us dry! ..... SAD JMHO (get out & vote .... as IF that really matters anymore?? )
Should the US defend Canada if it were attacked by Russia? Since Canada has nothing to send to Ukraine it's pretty obvious that they have no real defense of their own.
And yes, I know that in 2022 there is no imminent threat that Russia will attack Canada. But Canada shares a long northern border with them and at some point in the next few decades there will be disagreements between them when more oil/gas is discovered there and the northern shipping lanes become more established.
So, if the world gives Russia the OK to absorb it's sovereign neighbors, where does it stop?
Aspen, you have a good point.
Actually Canada does not share any border with Russia. Our closest point of contact would be through Alaska.
We either confront them there......or we confront them here, plain and simple. We have been confronting the Russians/Soviet's in some form, somewhere in the world, since the end of WWII. It isn't likely to stop soon.
"You were not being attacked during the first part of WW11. War started in 1938, USA joined (Declared War ) in the effort in what, 1942? When Pearl Harbour happened. Canada was on the ground fighting in WW11 from 1938 onward."
History lesson. WW2 started in Sept of '39, when Germany invaded Poland. From the end of September till May of '40 there wasn't any activity on that front, until the Germans invaded the Low Countries, followed by France. Pearl Harbor was December 7th, 1941. US delared war on Japan on Dec 8th. Germany declared war on the US on Dec 11th. thereby involving us in a two-front war. Which was inevitable.
And please don't diminish the US's effort in WW2. Canada chose to be led by the Brits in a war that should have been prevented when Germany marched into the Rhineland in March of '36, or when the Sudetenland was offered up as an appeasement to Hitler in Sept of 38. Then in March of '39 Hitler annexed even more in violation of the Munich pact. Hitlers biggest fear was that France and England would actually move on Germany because of their acts of aggression. Instead, nothing. They chose to follow such feckless leadership. We fought from December of '41 on. And from mid- '42, never looked back as we started to take back what was lost, by the US and others. (again).
"Or maybe Trump had the right idea. Save lives and let the Russians have Ukraine."
See above. Appeasement has never worked. Not saying we should send troops, but ceding ground, ceding freedom, never works. Patton was right. It would have been costly. But we should have rolled right thru and pushed the Soviets back to their pre-WW2 borders. Either deal with then now, or in the future. The futrue is now.
Bowbender, I stand corrected on dates Thx
We fought with our Allies.from the beginning 1939, who were being attacked... The Brits. Boots on the ground is what Canada was good for. Not sure now though.
Bowbender, would WW11 have lasted as long as it did if all Allies were in WW11 at the beginning?
The amount of money being given to the Ukraine is being pilfered by many. Billions and more billions and it's making Russia wealthy. Had our president given the weapons to the Ukraine early on this war would have been over. Instead he delayed and was always a step behind in give aid, hmmm, wonder why? You all better save your pennies because we are going south. The defense contractors and the retired politicians who work for them are getting filthy rich off of death and it will continue as long as the powers that be want it too. Remember when Russia had a forty mile long convoy stalled out and yet Ukraine had no way to attack them due to the delays in offensive weapons. Think of what might had been had they had the jets and rockets , it would have been a slaughter.
The amount of money being given to the Ukraine is being pilfered by many. Billions and more billions and it's making Russia wealthy. Had our president given the weapons to the Ukraine early on this war would have been over. Instead he delayed and was always a step behind in give aid, hmmm, wonder why? You all better save your pennies because we are going south. The defense contractors and the retired politicians who work for them are getting filthy rich off of death and it will continue as long as the powers that be want it too. Remember when Russia had a forty mile long convoy stalled out and yet Ukraine had no way to attack them due to the delays in offensive weapons. Think of what might had been had they had the jets and rockets , it would have been a slaughter.
"The defense contractors and the retired politicians who work for them are getting filthy rich off of death and it will continue as long as the powers that be want it too" that has been happening since the first war broke out and somebody figured out that one side didn't have all the weapons they needed.
Some of you folks on here act like this is something new and unique in the historical record as it pertains to weapons having been supplied, timing, etc., etc. It's not. And didn't/doesn't matter which party is in office.
There are some things about this period in history that are unique......but this ain't one of them.
"Bowbender, would WW11 have lasted as long as it did if all Allies were in WW11 at the beginning?"
The better question is, would WW2 have happened at all, had the Brits and France stopped them in March of '36 when the annexed the Rhineland? Or, When Germany invaded Poland, instead of hiding behind the Maginot line, rolled into Germany. At the outset of the war, not only did France possess better armor then then the Germans, they were numerically superior as well.
No one can predict how things will go but it's obvious we should always be as ready as we can be. That means having a strong economy, reliable and independent sources for energy, a strong military and a clear foreign policy.
Other than a weak economy, trying to tear down our best energy sources, killing morale by going woke in the military and sloppy foreign policy, we are fine.
"We have fought twice in Europe for them and both times it ended in disaster."
Gents, it's been awhile, but I believe we have a winner for the 2022 BDAC award. Let's give it up for azelkhntr!! While he has had many memorable utterances, the comittee feels this one should be awarded the Bowsite Dumb Ass Comment award for the year.
Don't know enough to directly answer the question...but one thing is abundantly clear, and that is PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH isn't just a right-wing slogan...it's a fact of life that would've probably prevented this war in the first place. I mean, seriously, if you wanted to pick a fight with someone would you do it when his badass brother was in power, or would you wait until his feeble old absent mind uncle entered the room? That's what we're seeing here play out right now. My guess is if we get somebody with BALLS back in the white house in 2024 you'll see Putin start de-escalating or end his attacks altogether. Until then I say we keep doing what we've been doing.
Bowbender, he takes the top 10 spots with the stupid shit that comes out of his mouth. Pretty sure he thinks the earth is flat and the moon landing was a hoax. He’s almost so stupid I think he’s joking but unfortunately I’m pretty sure he’s serious. ??
FDP, who said it was new or unique?
"Gents, it's been awhile, but I believe we have a winner for the 2022 BDAC award. Let's give it up for azelkhntr!! While he has had many memorable utterances, the comittee feels this one should be awarded the Bowsite Dumb Ass Comment award for the year."
There are still 2+ months in 2022, don't make the mistake of underestimating him.
Yes . . I should have got that date right. But a Wiser Bowhunter corrected me!!
"Here's one. How do we know that the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on 12-07-1941 was not a sneak attack?
I wouldn't exactly call a mysterious Japanese memorandum, that magically was discovered decades afterwards, proof that the US was fore-warned about the attack on Pearl Harbor. When I read about it, it sounded like a biased Japanese researcher who was trying to label it as an "honorable" attack.
Matt
" So, if the world gives Russia the OK to absorb it's sovereign neighbors, where does it stop? "
Exactly. Don't give Putain a damn inch of land. We made that mistake with Crimea.
The problem with todays tactics in fighting a war is that it s all "Strategic Strikes"
We won WWII not because we were "strategic" but because we "annihilated"
And combine that reality with the fact that our military of today is led by people like General "Thoroughly Modern" Milley! Lord help us!!
WW just look at what Russia is doing in Ukraine and realize that even though it’s not the military of the 1950s, the “competition” is getting their asses kicked by Ukraine. Lol!!!
If Russia gets to invade and steal land from its neighbor, or threaten nukes if it doesn't get it way.... does North Korea get to play the same game with South Korea? Does China get to do this with Taiwan? How about disputed islands that Russia or China would like to steal from Japan?
What happens if Iran gets nukes and what neighbor will they be allowed to gobble up?
Or do the free nations of the world fibally put a stop to all of this now?
Bowsniper, does that mean we get Mexico…wait… never mind.
If we let Arizona or Texas vote, will the illegals decide to give it back to Mexico....Iike the Donbass?
According to some people, anyplace that people speak Russian should become a part of Russia. I guess by that rationale most of the US belongs to Britain except for some US neighborhoods that belong to Mexico, Vietnam, China, Afghanistan, Iraq etc.
Russia's poking the Bear. Now Poland's Oil pipeline is leaking.
I think if the majority of the electorate is Russian and the Ukraine Nazis are terrorizing those Russian speaking peoples in those areas that previously chose to be annexed before the war. They should have been allowed to at that point.
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I also think NATO no longer has a purpose and should be disbanded.
Biden, Romney and their merry little band of puppet staters have already made enough of a mess in Ukraine and exasperated the problems we have now.
But hey, keep watching the war propaganda on TV and buying that crap.
I'm curious how anyone, who isn't actually there, determines what is "propaganda" versus accurate reporting?
Matt
Rumble, YouTube, and news channels from other countries to name a few.
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You should know America and Europe have an agenda just like Russia.
I linked one example...
I've only been involved in one "war", and rest assured even those of us who were there didn't know what was fact and what was propaganda.
It’s so ironical that those deepest in propaganda daily complain about propaganda. Those that complain about fake news seek out even more fake news sources.
Yeah, Rumble and Youtube are bastions of the truth and accurate reporting (insert eye-roll). Rumble is nothing more than a conservative echo-chamber, similar to what Twitter and Facebook are for liberals. Youtube? You've got to be kidding me.
Why would you assume that the news outlets in other countries are more truthful than our own? Oh, that's right, Trump told you so.
OK, I'm done. I've got tree stands to hang....
Matt
Maybe gflight, azelkhntr, and Shawn Magyar can start a self help group for right wing nuts addicted to fake news. LMAO.
JusPassin I agree 100%. The best we can do is look at all sides.
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Following opposing sources and not discrediting anything out of hand because of what we "feel" their credibility is or where the information comes from is important in my view.
Everyone has their agenda.
I may also have done a PMESII-PT analysis on the region a few years back, who knows.
I'm I wrong to think that the previous 2 presidents PREVETNTED Russia from invading through either sanctions or threats of catastrophic war? It seems to me that when Russia inched over the line in the sand shortly after biden's take over that he did nothing, so they went full on ahead. In my view this isn't something that "could" have been prevented but absolutely "should" have been prevented. Or... it's something that if we didn't prevent we should be ok with washing our hands of it completely. If we care enough to help we should have cared enough to prevent it.
Crimea was annexed under Obama and the rest under Biden.
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Trump was colluding but
"Twitter and Facebook are for liberals. Youtube? You've got to be kidding me."
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Liberals are all over social media platforms. Plenty of libertarians on rumble, getter, you tube, etc.
Leftists run twitter and facebook and collude with the State to censor, groom, push state propaganda, and infringe on liberty.
You may want to tell the dates of those referendums so people aren't thinking it's the annexation show that just happened.
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Search engines only talk about the annexations recently.
Imagine that....
Here is the Crimea one....
In a referendum in January 1991, 93 percent of the citizens of Crimea voted for autonomy from Ukraine. In 1994, 83 percent voted for the establishment of a dual Crimean/Russian citizenship.
William Burns former ambassador under Bush to Moscow...
Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all red lines for the Russian elite (not just Putin). In more than two-and-a-half years of conversations with key Russian players, from knuckle-draggers in the dark recesses of the Kremlin to Putin’s sharpest liberal critics, I have yet to find anyone who views Ukraine in NATO as anything other than a direct challenge to Russian interests. [It would be seen] as throwing down the strategic gauntlet. Today’s Russia will respond. Russian-Ukrainian relations will go into a deep freeze. . . . It will create fertile soil for Russian meddling in Crimea and eastern Ukraine.
Read "The Clash of Civilizations" by Samuel Huntington of the division between the pro-Russian East and the anti-Russian West if you want more background.
Make no mistake, the U.S. for the first time is attempting to expand NATO by conquest, occupying territories that don’t want it there. .
Just like those territories didn't want the Nazis there.
"Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all red lines for the Russian elite (not just Putin). "
Boo frickin' hoo. Are we supposed to give a rats arse about how Russian oligarchs feel now? Hurt their feelings, then bankrupt their sorry arses. (And confiscate their mega yachts.)
Do you feel the same about the oligarchs that actually run Western Ukraine?
How about their Nazi militias?
Or do you just care about the politician sons that work for them?
You come from a place of deliberate ignorance with your cherry picked quotes and comments.
Nazi militias…how are people so gullible? Democratically elected president is Jewish. Russia does what they always do. Similar to Trump. Demonize your opponent regardless of the truth and repeat repeat repeat. Some will believe without evidence. Now we know it’s the weak minded idiots like gflight and azelkhntr and Shawn Magyar.
"Nazi militias…how are people so gullible? Democratically elected president is Jewish."
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The oligarchs in Ukraine have their own militias.
They used to fight each other all the time.
You are the willfully ignorant gullible one.
You never answered my question about what would happen if some guy on the job did to a woman coworker what Biden does to little girls.
How about that answer there pedo defender...
Implying that Ukrainians are Nazi because of a few is gullible. Maybe the U.S. is full of Nazi. I mean look at Charlottesville. “Jews will not replace us.” Remember that? Maybe that means the U.S. should be attacked because we are all Nazi.
Yes, you are gullible.
I said they have Nazi militias, fact. Didn't label all Ukrainians. But you know that.
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I only consider the Charlottesville dude and Kanye racists not Nazi.
You leftists are the one that labels everybody Nazi. Easy to Google links that prove that.
Look in the mirror and ask who the gullible one is...lol
Fact check/translator on aisle 3. Seriously AZ? Direct quote from mother Russian, huh?
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For our flatlander who said....Implying that Ukrainians are Nazi because of a few is gullible.
Telling lies about what people type is what pedo defender?
From the net....
"NAZI militias in Ukraine are preparing for all-out war with Russia as they arm themselves for the fight against Vladimir Putin's forces.
One is the Azov Battalion, founded by an avowed white supremacist oligarch who claimed Ukraine's national purpose was to rid the country of Jews and other inferior races."
Are you ever intending to add any facts/substance or are you just the leftist version of az?
“ From the net....”
LMAO. That’s about par.
Maygar preaching to anyone about morals and God with the despicable things he posts along with the other braggadocious BS…thanks for the laughs.
The Canadian comment made me chuckle. One could argue that the current Canadian National political stance is more communist that Russia's.
I'm confused, was there a regime change in Ukraine a few years ago or not? Zelensky was the people's choice ? Seems I vaguely remember the US State Dept meddling in some special election there a few years back.
Only cost us 5 billion back then....
Ukraine an ally? Since when? Oh yeah there is Biden, Obama and Billary corruption involved supported by the likes of Lindsay Graham and Mitch McConnel……
“ From the net....”
LMAO. That’s about par.
Yet you add no substance, just high school nonsense.
I understand it's hard when the leftist s*** can't survive debate and has no credibility.
Join Tulsi, we'd at least have a little respect for you.....
"First time since the Cuban missile crisis, we have a direct threat of the use (of a) nuclear weapon if in fact things continue down the path they are going," Joe Biden
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The path they are going?
This numbskull is POTUS!
He is the one funding and supplying the arms!
What a MAROON....
Biden is unfit period! Always has been, always will be. The sad thing is we actually have morons who voted for this clown show. More than voted for Obama even. Yeah right ;)
Ya think Hunter would get an exemption?
If we send our illegal aliens and homeless drug addicts to fight with the Ukrainians, maybe we can eliminate the problems we have here, all while assisting the Ukes.
China joe makes more money by supporting the war in Ukraine than he does by supporting peace and quiet in America.
Keep talking like that ELKSlaya and you're going to hurt dianac, ksflatbill, and gg's feelings. They may even ask you politely to sit in timeout.
Jane, I don't do 'polite' ;-)
It's just sad. Really sad. I heard biden's voice as I read the meme above. Now I have to go listen to something like "Puff the Magic Dragon" to get it out of my head...
Az you can come up with whatever theory you want and by what I have been seeing going on I will believe whatever crazy thing anyone comes up with.
Obama said we are about to get a lot browner. When he was in office.
Appeasement for the devil never works. Whether its at home(US politics, false BLM or Human Rights organizations) or abroad (Ukraine, Russia, China) he must be exposed and dealt with. If not it will haunt us just like pausing to get involved in WWI, WWII and other more recent events (exterminating Bin Linden and his ilk).
While we just want to live our lives alone evil seeks to control us, the worst thing for good people to do is nothing or hide your head in the sand. I am glad there are still some people willing to fight the good fight, problem is there is so much lying it's hard to determine the good fight beyond common sense of good and evil. Again, that is how the devil does his work. Keep us all at each other's throats instead of focusing on him and his followers. So friends please work with your family, friends and neighbors to find that common sense of good and evil- work together for a change. That advice comes from my elders growing up, former soldiers, people dealing with the worst of what life can dish out to police, medical staff, emergency response and fellow safety professionals. Common cause-fighting evil in all its forms and spending time bowhunting when we can...
One of the reasons there all against Russia is he put a stick in the spokes of the one world order and Russia didn’t want Ukrainian in there, don’t think this is all russias fault, our pm should keep his nose out of it we have nothing to fight them with if they attack us we will put Trudeau on the front lines if they do. There shouldn’t be a border between us and USA imo.
Varied interesting points of view. Does make one do some pondering. .
Alexis I couldn’t agree more!
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