Need help selectin brace height and ATA
Equipment
Good day fellow bowhunters. I'm seriously considering purchasing a new bow in 2023. I've shot only Mathews solo cam bows since 1996, but it appears that is no longer an option. I'm not really looking for brand name suggestions as much as brace height and axle-to-axle length recommendations. I have not purchased a new bow in over a decade and bow design technology appears much different today (long risers and sub-parallel limbs with most brace heights well under 7"). I'm a 29" draw and currently hunt with a 480gr arrow if that helps.
In 2003, I bought a new Mathews LX with a 6-5/8" brace height. That bow was a tack driver on the range and lethal when hunting from the ground. The problem I ran into cold weather hunting from a treestand. I'm a southpaw...and shooting to my left from a tree while wearing layers greatly reduced accuracy. I sold that bow and bought an Ovation with an 8" brace height...problem solved. At the time, I was convinced that a 7" brace height would be my minimum going forward.
For the past ten years, I've been shooting a Drenalin LD (37" ATA and 7" brace height). That bow has been great and honestly makes me wonder why I'm even looking at new bows. But there is a little voice in my head telling me I'm missing the boat. I've been scouring websites (Mathews, Hoyt, Elite, Xpedition, Obsession, Prime, etc...) and virtually all flagship bows today are under 33" ATA with 6" - 6-1'2" brace heights. I need to hear the voice of experience regarding this new technology before making a decision. FYI, being a southpaw greatly reduces my opportunities of shooting a bow prior to purchase. At today's prices, most shops just don't carry lefties in stock. Thanks in advance!
I am a fan of long bow. I have a 34" bow with a 6 3/4" brace. I would stay around there. I would not recommend going with a poorer quality bow just to get a longer bow or higher brace. I would choose the best offering from the line that I like.
I can’t offer you much more than some empathy, Paul. Being a southpaw pretty much eliminates any chance of side by side comparisons at 99.9% of any bow shops. I bought a new Vertix in 2019, after shooting my Switchback XT for 12-14 years. Like you alluded to, I felt like I might be missing something, by not shooting a new offering. I really like my Vertix, but not sure if I shoot it any better, or like it better than my XT.
Are you shooting while sitting down, or do you have the same problem shooting to your left even when standing?
I don't typically shoot while sitting from treestand. I didn't have nearly as much trouble shooting to the right or straight ahead with that short brace height LX as shooting to the left. Again, the more layers I was wearing...the more it affected my shot.
Pav, If you like a longer bow, take a look at the Bowtech offerings for 2023. The SS34 and the Reckoning 36 are both outstanding and they are ridiculously east to tune. Both are very forgiving and plenty fast. I prefer a longer ATA and brace height of at least 6.5” for my 30” draw length. More accurate for me in a hunting situation. Give ‘‘em a look.
I’m probably going to get a Hoyt RX7 Ultra which is 34” ata and 7” brace. I also prefer a forgiving bow.
My son shoots left handed so I understand looking for a demo can be tough.
I felt the urge as well, as my current bow is 2001 era 41” A2A with a 7” BH.
I have an old pitching injury that I can live with as I know what aggravates it and what doesn’t. I bought a V3 33 a couple years ago and sold it 3 weeks later. I could t shoot it for the life of me consistently , and the draw cycle would have had me in in the doctors office for surgery as after I shot it 20-30 shots, my shoulder was done!
Good luck, but I will get another Conquest before I get another new bow. Also, I like 65% let off bows as the the draw is much more comfortable. I can shoot my current all day no issues. 10 shots with the new Mathews and I’m done for the week or weeks.
Pav,
You might see about an Elite Verdict. Pretty similar specs to your Drenalin LD. It shows up under their target line on their website.
Hoyt RX7 Ultra has a 7” brace height. It gets good reviews.
Hoyt (VTM 34) and PSE (Mach 34) make 34 ata bows on there 2023 models. I’m a lefty and just purchased a 2022 Hoyt Ventum Pro. It’s 33 ata with at 6 3/8 brace height. It’s quiet and very forgiving. Since they have been discontinued you find a great deal at a shop or Scheels.
Also I saw a Hoyt RX7 Ultra on AT Classifieds for $1175. It’s 34 ata.
Still hunting with my Drenalin. I’ve shot a few of the new short bows and didn’t like them at all.
If I want to pound spots for score, I still pull out my old Conquest. It’s still the best aiming bow I’ve shot.
Matt
PAV some of those Hoyts are nice, but you are right in the DL where you get penalized on the cam position. I can’t remember exactly which, but I’m pretty certain the 29 or it may have been 29.5 is where you get penalized and a 28 inch DL is actually faster than the 29 .5 due to cam position. I’m sure the Hoyt guys can clarify but for me, Inwas looking for more speed at less pounds and I was getting penalized due to cam position.
Gotta shoot V3X or Phase 4 Mathews in 33”. Good luck pav.
@ Matt, that’s what I hunt with, I don’t shoot far but it’s been a solid bow for 10s of years.
The new Hoyt Cam’s don’t really penalize you like they used to. On my Ventum Pro 33 at 65lbs with a 440 grain arrow at my draw 27 I’m getting 259fps. At your draw you’d be pushing 280fps with my arrow weight. It does have a speed change at 29.5. Good luck!
Here’s a good video of the 2022 Ventum Pro 33 Speed test. As you watch it the speed changes at 29.5 some.
I shot a Drenalin LD for several years. Now I’m shooting a Mathews Atlas, think it’s 34.5 ATA and 7.75 brace height. I like it a lot. Try one and see if it is for you.
So I just had a look, it’s the guys at 29.5 (me) that get penalized As there is no overlap (at least there wasn't) so the hopefully they solved that with the new lineup.
Here is the link.
Check out the hoyt Highline 345fps. 36 1/2" ata. 7 7/8 brace hights 29"-34" draw.
Sorry didn't mean to send pic.
I certainly appreciate all the responses... but what I'm really after is some feedback regarding the forgiveness of these newer technology bows. The short ( 33" and less) ATA bows appear to have longer risers than my 37" ATA Drenalin LD...shorter sub parallel limbs...and most with brace heights in the 6-1/2" range or less.
Basically, has this latest design created a more forgiving bow...and made the brace height less critical for accuracy than it was a decade+ ago? - OR- is arrow speed the primary driver with little regard to shot forgiveness? Thanks!
Parallel limbs is the biggest advantage, no more forward thrust. Brace hights will always be the same. More is better. Also bow fiscal wt. And let off will play into accuracy.
PAV,
I’m far from a good shot, but I feel I can come off my current bow almost sideways and hit the target. The V3 I had was totally different! My grip was super important or ID get flyers. I can grip my Conquest any way Inwa t for the most part and still hit the target. I don’t buy into all the hype on these shorter bows.
I just got a Hoyt highline. It’s a shooter for sure. Little heavy but holds well and is rock solid . 7//78 brace height is very forgiving !! Hunt
Pav, you’re not missing out on anything, IMO. There’’s nothing about the new short ATA, low brace height bows that is more forgiving to shoot. They are lighter, easier to pack, and can be shot in tighter spaces. But they are harder to aim and less forgiving to small form imperfections. There’s a reason most bow manufacture’s target bows are still 36” or longer ATA and at least 7” brace height.
Matt
Hunt man glade to hear this. I wish it would come in 28" draw . I settled on RX7 elite for now but thinging of a status. 40"
Wow! 34 and 36 inches axle to axle are now considered "long"?
Yep, I remember back when I started bow hunting all the bow’s we’re 44-48 ata. They we’re fast but really forgiving. Imo. Also a lot of people shot fingers.
So for what it's worth, I've always been a fan of the same specs. {Disclaimer, I'm just a dude that enjoys shooting but mainly hunts with no special skill or distinction}
My last 4 bows were an Elite Energy 35" 7, Prime Rival 35" 6.5, Prime Nexus 4 34", 6 and now an Athens Vista 35, 35" 6.5. I like the specs you describe.
I loved them all, but maybe the Nexus the least. I would get fliers, and I have to believe that it was the 6" brace height.
I've enjoyed the Athens a ton, easy to shoot, forgiving, quiet, just a really nice bow.
That said Athens went small for 2023 with their new bow, so I hope somebody keeps making these big forgiving specs as bow manufacturing evolves.
The next bow I hope to try out is the Mathews TRX 38. It combines the benefits of a long riser and parallel limbs with a relatively long ATA and BH. It seems to be popular with a lot of 3D and target shooters.
Have any of you shot it?
Matt
To answer your specific questions: You don't "need" the long ATA anymore to achieve the same forgiveness. 32" now is real comparable to 36" from 20 years ago. The risers are stiffer, the cams are much larger which gives the string angle of a larger bow from yesteryear. However,...brace height is still brace height. Stick to 7" BH. 33"+ ATA and pick up and hold as many as you can. Most will be right handed but you can still get a feel for them. If I were you I would stick with one of the more tunable options. Either a true two-cam with top & bottom yokes, or the Bowtech adjustable cam/axles, or the Elite system. If I buy a new bow this year it will be the carbon Elite Era.
I haven't shot one yet, but I would look real hard at the Bowtech SS or Athens Vista 35.
Another option might be a Bowtech Reckoning. 35" ATA, 7" brace. There's a LH Reckoning for sale on AT but it's only 60 lbs. Also, a 2023 LH Hoyt RX7 at 70 lbs.
Archery republic makes a 44-inch axle to axle with an 8.5-inch brace height doubt you can get more forgiving than this. Good luck in your search keeps us posted on your findings.
Did you find your bow yet, Paul?
GG - I haven’t shot the TRX38, but I am setting up a new TRX36 right now. The bh is only 6.5”, compared to 7” on the 38. This thing is smooth as butter with a super stiff backwall. I’ve never owned a ‘target bow’ before … I bought it to shoot spots, but am struggling to rationalize why I wouldn’t use it for hunting.
Yes, the new bow decision was finalized this evening. I stuck with a minimum 7" brace height and minimum 33" axle to axle. Also eliminated any bow which my draw length (29") was at the bottom of the draw length range (due to performance concerns). For 2023 models, that completely eliminated Mathews (which I've shot exclusively since 1996), Prime and Xpedition.
I managed to shoot several bows, some were right handed, but still provided a good feel for the draw cycle, wall, vibration and noise.
Elite Era - Yes, too short for my specs, but I just had to try it! Draw cycle was way too aggressive for this old man. I was surprised by the string angle on such a short axle to axle bow. The large cams made the string angle a much better fit than anticipated.
Elite Verdict - Super smooth draw cycle and dead in the hand...but the riser alone measures nearly 35" in length. Loved everything else about this bow, but just could not envision hunting from a treestand or in steep terrain with such a long riser.
Bowtech Reckoning 36 Gen 2 - Another super smooth draw cycle, but had more vibration and noise than any other bow I shot. Just didn't feel right in my hand either. The unique shaped riser may have had something to do with that?
PSE Mach 34 - This bow was not on my original list... I just missed it. The S2 cam was super aggressive, but the EC cam was fantastic. My final selection actually came down to the PSE Mach 34 versus one other bow on the list...
Hoyt RX7 Ultra - Super smooth draw cycle and absolutely dead in the hand. The feel in the hand at full draw, inline mounting systems and a 65lb draw weight option sealed the deal. Placed the order this evening...now the waiting game begins!!!
I want to thank everyone (again) that responded to this thread. Being my first new bow purchase in more than a decade, I hoped to gain the voices of more recent experience with this thread...and my fellow Bowsite brethren did not disappoint!
Good luck with it, Paul. Hopefully it shows up quickly for you!
Has the bow been sold already? Or maybe you have another one for sale?
Since you're not looking for brand name suggestions, let's talk about brace height and axle-to-axle length. It sounds like you've had good experiences with a brace height of at least 7 inches in the past, but you're noticing that most flagship bows today have shorter brace heights. As for axle-to-axle length, it really depends on your personal preference and hunting style. One thing you could try is to
calculate the bow's draw length online to make sure you're getting the right fit for you. As for recommendations, I'm sure other experienced bowhunters on this thread will have great advice for you.
Im shooting a 60lb pse evl34 right now for my deer and bear hunting bow its 34 ata and has a 6 3/4" bh, its nice but I find it a little cumbersome and I shot just as well with my nxt 31 which was 30.5 ata so I have a new pse fortis 30 on order, I don't mind a longer ATA for my elk and moose bow as its mostly im my pack so I don't notice the extra length. IMO I don't think it matters in hunting situations , as long as you get used to whatever you are shooting
Not sure why this thread resurfaced...but the decision was finalized back in mid-January. I was not looking for a carbon bow...but after shooting several models, the choice came down to the Hoyt RX7 Ultra or PSE Mach 34 with EC cam (both carbon bows). Went with the RX7 Ultra as it offered a couple extra advantages ...inline rest & sight option and a more versatile draw weight range. Very happy with my first Hoyt purchase since the early 90's.
