Bowsite.com

AccuWeather experts say an additional 4-8 inches of rain can fall on the coastal ranges, as well as the foothills of the Sierra Nevada, with an AccuWeather Local StormMax™ of 14 inches. In San Francisco, 2-4 inches of rain is expected. Since Dec. 26, 2022, the downtown area has picked up more than 11 inches of rainfall -- a staggering 628% higher than the normal precipitation for that time frame of 1.76 inches. During this stretch, the city recorded its wettest 10-day period since the Civil War era.

The massive forest fires that had smoke covering the entire western states for many months has more effect on the climate than every car in CA. How many millions of tons of smoke was that?

Fires caused by environmentalist Climate weinies restricting the cutting of anything in Ca forests. My Calfire buddy says there are whole rooms at the capitol devoted to the paperwork from lawsuits by environmentalists to shut down ANY logging in Ca. Trees are a renewable resource…but environmentalists dont get that. The unintended consequences of hack environmentalists calling the shots is killing all of us.

Whatever may or may not cause it will have a considerably more drastic affect on mankind than it did 1,000 or whatever years ago. That's an undeniable reality.

Without the Sun we would be dead in 2 weeks. Would we cause that? No.

The Sun reverses its poles every 11 years.

It will eventually have a Solar Flare event large enough to shut down all modern technology. If the one that happened in the 1800s happened now it would be catastrophic to modern man.

The Earth's magnetic field prevents widespread death from solar radiation, the sheer electromagnetic power of a flare could shutdown power grids, internet connections and other communication devices on Earth, resulting in chaos and riots, most people would not be self sufficient enough to survive.

perhaps someone should start making a fortune by selling the fear of us damaging the Sun. Like Gore and all the Hollywood climate alarmists do for the Earth.

Or read a book occasionally and realize that all planets are in one of 2 conditions

They are decaying, or have already died. The speed of that is not relevant

I'm not saying the world will end in ten years at all but I am saying that to ignore that there are glaciers retreating faster than at any point in history, the ocean temperature is rising leading to more intense storms, droughts are becoming more severe and pervasive, is to ignore what is right before your eyes and is undeniable. And this is happening across the world, not just in the US.

About 10 minutes in a closed small garage with a vehicle running is about all a person can stand, now consider 10s of millions of vehicles running every second of every day in this world. Then on the other hand I'd imagine that one mega volcano blowing it's top could put more carbon in the atmosphere in a day than us humans have in 100 years.

Without a doubt things are changing quickly. How much of that change is directly related to humans using fossil fuels for energy ???

Really, Undeniable?

So if it’s a drought, bad.

Too much rain, bad

Too much snow, bad

Too hot, bad

Too cold, bad.

What exactly is perfect weather for humans.

This 100 year discussion is another misdirection.

So because last week, a certain small area of the planet had a once in 100 year weather event means that humans caused it?

Or could it be as simple as 1000 years ago it wasn’t measured.

When the continental drift was going on. That was definitely a period of climate change.

The arrogance of humans. To think we can dictate the planet give us a perfect climate on the entire globe at all times.

Nautilus are not shallow fresh water creatures.

Matt

If either of these two are in concert with one another, it's a lie.

But my opinion is that if you are a farmer in the west that can no longer afford to keep the family farm because there is limited water due to droughts, that would be bad. If you are a farmer along the Mississippi that had their crops ruined, causing financial distress more in more than one recent year, that would be bad. If you live in an area where wildfires took your home and possessions that would be bad.

Too much snow, in my opinion, isn’t bad. Depending on where you live it can be anywhere from a nuisance to a blessing.

Good luck with that.

In the meantime; every time I have to replace expensive emission control components on my truck, I feel like I’ve made a big contribution to fixing the problem.

The world is ever changing. Unfortunately there are too many people that buy into the government’s “chicken little” scam.

It’s no different than the war on drugs that started 50 years ago. Look around yourself and tell me how that has been going!

Follow the money…science is overrated! Didn’t any of you learn anything during COVID?

As far as credibility goes, an example is the crackpot Bill Nye that speaks to the Ice Ages encompassing 600,000 years. What this fool doesn't consider is that each layer doesn't describe a freeze/thaw cycle denoting years, but are merely layer build up from strom events.

That type of stereotyping an(d) redirecting a conversation to belittle anyone's opinion (is)a favorite tactic of more than a few folks here(you're included). If you look hard enough you can find some documentation to support any position no matter how far fetched(which some people call undeniable facts as we will soon witness).

But in the case of climate change or healthcare( or any other pet issue)there are undeniable facts(here's where the true definition of science is needed and not the wonky definition prevelant and in use by leftists) present that some( insert here the name of anyone you choose to belittle) choose to ignore largely because of their political beliefs.

:) You're welcome.

Plain and simple, there are certain facts regarding climate and healthcare. You may disagree with them but that doesn't change the facts. It only changes your beliefs or understanding of the facts.

It interesting that you say the wonky definition of science is held by leftists. Clearly the rightists have a definition of science and it could be called wonky as well. But lets see if we can agree on the definition.

Regardless of the source defining science certain characteristics are present - study, (objective) observation, experimentation, measurement and data. Science is a body of knowledge and a process of acquiring new knowledge. Science does not offer an endpoint, just data at a certain point in time.

Is there anything in that definition that you disagree with?

"And with a brush of your hand", as do you also.

"Regardless of the source defining science ", there you go again. How can you say regardless? Are you naive or innocent?

" There are tens of thousands of people with no agenda that dedicate their lives to researching and interpreting data. " And therefore the tens of thousands of people with an agenda have no influence or simply don't count?

Doesn't "green science" expound an endpoint? You bet your sweet bippy it does.

Which part of the definition do you disagree with?

Where did you get green science? I never mentioned that.

We aren’t talking feet or even inches per year in the places it is rising (because it doesn’t rise or drop the same everywhere) but there has been an increase since 1993 of about double the trend over the previous hundred-some years.

These days the boots on the right aren't tall enough sometimes.

That's some good old fashioned real time country boy logic.

Not some numbers on a graph conducted by some university somewhere. Now your free to believe whatever you want.

And I'll continue to know what I know.

12 Yards- you’re going to make a mint rewriting all those physics books.

Megalodon became extinct millions of years ago, when the planet entered a phase of global cooling. when the last Megalodon died is not known, but new evidence suggests that it was at least 3.6 million years ago.

I have found Megalodon and Mastodon teeth at the bottom of South Carolina rivers 20 miles up stream from the ocean

Both laying only feet from each other. Both extinct millions of years ago.

One a land creature and the other deep ocean

does the climate change?...of course, been changing for thousands of years.

but you have to stop and consider, all this , and the people that are behind it....... blind leading the blind...

ah yes then the origin of man...came from monkeys we did. funny........man has evolved to the point of flying through space, technology, and great invention, but the monkey?.....well he's still a monkey.

so brilliant we are inventing computer technology, and weapons capable of destroying the earth.......yet we can't create one single grass seed, from scratch, give it life,make it grow, and reproduce....unless we start out with the life already provided.

brilliant we are......or we think.

time will tell, will it not. one thing is certain about the evolutionist.......you better darn sure hope your right, because the other option if ignored....comes with terrible consequence.

frankly, i'm not willing to chance that, and looking around, and seeing the messes we create....its pretty obvious we are not all we're cracked up to be.

If i go through my whole life believing in God, and in the end find out i was wrong....it cost me nothing, for i would have lived a good life...

But if i go through my whole life, not believing in God, and in the end, find out he exist....it would have costed me everything.......your choice.

It's what we do or don't do or believe or don't believe that separates us and an extreme level by some.

I'd guess that 80+% of members of this forum view it through a political lens as in ok yes things are changing but the government needs to mind it's own business.

Then there's the deniers who don't see any change whatsoever.

And myself could be considered a realist. I see the change, acknowledge & accept it but also realize there's not much can be done about it.

Biblical ,,,,not even going there. I agree with shade in that is humans are are own worst enemy.

The Earth is only 6000 years old? Close. Only 4.5+ billion years off. And those same professors want us to believe what now exactly? Yeah. Ok.

1) that government fears a change in climate that would affect America’s ability to grow crops….and thus destroy the global economy. If our economy shrinks… big government is going to shrivel up pretty quickly.

2) and that our government fears a change in climate …would possibly stretch the ability of the US government to continue to finance every citizen that is affected by a natural disaster created by these climate changes?

Truth be told….. only a very small number of Americans are self sufficient or could fend for themselves in dire times.

Every natural disaster this country responds to exemplifies just how helpless the majority of Americans are when the weather causes havoc .

If there’s a huge climate change it won’t matter much whether it was natural or man made.

Pretty sure the government is aware they aren’t going to be able to solve all the problems a large climate change creates.

Sure has when the CO2 was associated with natural volcanic eruptions. Turns out enough dust and volcanic ash to block out the suns rays. In addition, CO2 is not the only single variable in the atmosphere controlling the trapping of heat.

Flip the question. What happens when you increase CO2 and other greenhouse gases in the atmosphere? Or how do we have an atmosphere and how does the earth stay warm? Why doesn’t the heat escape into space like on Mars?

There will be resulting reaction from changing earth’s atmosphere composition. No different when volcanoes erupted or meteors wiped out most vertebrate life on earth. You want to debate how much that change will be…that’s valid. You want to deny any change related to 8 billion of a species that can manipulate its environment like no other…c’mon.

I’ll use shade mt logic. You prepare and mitigate for increased global temps and you were wrong nothing much happens. You don’t try to prepare and mitigate it’s going to hurt for your grandchildren…especially if they plan to inherit that beach house.

Don’t get your knowledge about climate change from me or any other poster (especially Hackbow, 12 Yards, or Woods Walker; science deniers). Go talk to or read the work of the 90% of climate scientists that have the data and know how real it is. Also talk to the 10% of dissenting SCIENTISTS. I think you’ll find out they are unsure about the details but know the earth is warming due to 8 billion human inhabitants.

But just because 9 out of 10 dentists say you should brush your teeth…don’t just take at face value the 1 dentists doesn’t recommend brushing your teeth. You should probably also listen to the 9 who do recommend it.

SBC- do you also believe the earth is static and the sun moves around the earth? It says that in the Bible and we know that isn’t true. There are many more. God works in mysterious ways. He gave us a complex brain and the ability to ask “why?” about the physical world. I plan to use Gods gift of science everyday to further understand it.

My guess is a guy could look back and find more that got it wrong, but after all, they're just looking at models that a computer spits out.

That is of course unless the science is settled by an overwhelming number of scientists on any given subject with peer reviewed studies, proving the settled science.

However, if the settled science happens to be wrong, they weren’t wrong. They were just following the science and interpreting the new data.

At this point the science is once again settled by an overwhelming percentage of scientists and supported by peer reviewed data.

…That is OF COURSE until there is new data.

That should clear things up:)

Uh...Hitler already tried that 80 years ago. Didn't go to well!

KS, you must have skipped when I wrote this. So I'm not a climate change denier. Call me a climate change crisis denier. That would be true.

And I bet if I asked all those 90% of scientists how much of the warming is natural and how much is anthropegenic, none could tell me. And there isn't a paper out there that will tell me. Just models, that have been horribly off in estimating warming that has actually occurred. I would actually love to hear from the 90% how they personally truly feel. I bet a lot of them are afraid to truthfully tell what they really feel.

And, I would argue mitigating even though it might not be a crisis in the future will have devastating consequences to many people that won't be able to use fossil fuels to increase their quality of life. I'm fine with switching to low carbon alternatives, IF it is reliable, even if it costs me more. Nuclear is the answer IMO. Not these stupid solar arrays and windmills.

That is eventually going to happen regardless. That isn’t to say that an economic consideration for families that depend on the fossil fuel industry for income shouldn’t be considered. It should. The current solution for energy reliability and reducing greenhouse gases is an “all of the above” sources until science can figure out a reliable and efficient way to store electrons.

Making false statements like sea level isn’t rising or storms aren’t getting more extreme is just BS by any legitimate measurement. I think most the time you just make s#%t up. You definitely don’t back it with scientifically legit sources.

Like supernaut mentioned, We just forget, the whole acid rain thing back in the 80's...oh speaking of the 80's i have a picture of my wife sitting on our porch in Jan..it was like 80 degrees that day.

we were below zero here around christmas this year......i have a pic of a big snowstorm back in the 60's....and in the 90's.....i remember one year first day of firearm deer here in PA...really warm, i also remember 2 below one year.

Is the climate changing? yes, always has been, should we curb pollution? well of course, why on earth would we not where we can?......Will we totally do away with fossil fuel anytime soon like Joey Biden wants?...dream on. You want something to fear?...fear socialism, a one world system.....and those liberal nutcases....keep following their way, and our children and grandchildren will pay the price...Hopefully it isn't to late already. Climate change isn't our biggest threat right now...it's society change, and how we perceive right and wrong.

The earth has been in a constant state of climate change since it began.

The religion of “climate change” and that mankind is evil continues to to be spread…

They often say they can’t definitely link it to climate change and we never will for a given year. Climate is so complex but that’s no excuse for data paralysis. We have to move forward and make decisions on the data we do have. Like I said the vast majority of climate scientists agree that increased greenhouse gases in the atmosphere caused by humans is changing our climate. They are just debating how much, when, and where.

I vote that we (as a society) prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Ignoring it will not make it go away. We need cheaper and more stable energy sources. Fossil fuels are an inevitable dead end and that’s a fact. Let’s get while the getting is good.

Is the government gonna change it with all this green energy nonsense, NO.

A perfect example is on the coast where I live. It's proposed to erect 100s of windmills off the coast between ocean city MD and Virginia beach VA. The problem with these wind farms is the construction and maintenance burns more fossil fuel than the green energy they produce.

Not to mention closing huge amounts of the ocean their located in.

Is climate change happening ,,,Yes,,, Is our government gonna change it with this green energy nonsense,,,No,,,

This is completely and totally false. It doesn’t even pass the sniff test without even looking it up.

Do they seem efficient or why would you care, that is not in the wheel house of where ownership with these things matters

Just wondering what your real life experience is

Funny your link mentioned nothing about the marine survey sonar ships that have been frying every living thing on the ocean floor with their high powered sonar mapping out the proposed wind farm location and underwater power cable routes for the last 3 years and burning two thousand gallons of fuel a week doing so.

Is there a particular reason why your link left out this little tidbit of information ???

Terry

Timex- nice strawman combined with a red herring. Do you have any reference for anything you are claiming?

“underwater power cable routes for the last 3 years and burning two thousand gallons of fuel a week doing so.”

If you do the math, of 2000 gallons/year X 3 years X $10/gallon is about $3,000,000. That’s not even the equivalent cost of a single turbine. That’s assuming you’re right about your numbers which I highly doubt. A boat doing sonar surveys every week for 3 years seems pretty much hyperbole anyways. Why would they need to do it for 3 years straight lol.

The cost of the electron is fully loaded and the cost of renewables energy is quickly becoming competitive with other traditional sources of energy. It’s outcompeting already in some markets. The cost per electron is going down for renewables and going up for fossil fuels. Eventually renewables (infinite fuel) will catch fossil fuels (finite fuel) with or without subsidies. Do you want to lead other superpowers into the energy production revolution or do you want to be in the back of the pack? Personally, I’d rather lead.

You leased property you own for 18 turbines?

I have 18 turbines on property I own in Nueces and Brown Counties in Texas

You are the perfect civil servant.

Let's go on now to petroleum royalties. Tell me how those should be structured in Oklahoma, New Mexico and Texas. Hoping I did those right

The only thing you have established (allegedly) is you leased your land for a wind project for which you’re inferring that are…I don’t know what you’re inferring but possibly that you’re a hypocrite as long as someone is paying.

And I’m not a civil servant lol.

IF the climate is changing and it probably is, where do we go from here?...is it over all on average warmer, or colder than 100 yrs ago?...or 50 yrs ago?...or 25 yrs ago? Last year? i guess it depends on which year you pic in your comparison. And storms, worse now than before?...was the flooding in kentucky worse than Agnes in 72 ? or Katrina ?

Today we have the world at our fingertips... via www..It is much easier, and faster to spread the gloom and doom through media than before.

record breaking temps, storms etc...are instantly broadcast. The real problem is the people we elect to lead, to discern, to make sound choices based on wisdom to address real problems, and come up with a common sense solution.

Many of you are following or putting your faith in people that quite frankly should have never been given a leadership role in the first place.

When i see elected officials acting like a bunch of gossiping school girls, or using the F word or criticizing another official because he didn't support him in a sex trafficking scandal....lying, slander, vacation after vacation, during a crisis, the inability to pass good moral law for the good of all society, and the general lack of ability to lead this country in the RIGHT direction, instead of creating more problems, all at the expense of tax payer dollars....No, these are not the kind of people we want to put our trust in with something as important as climate change if it exist.

I am appalled at the choices our country is making, because it effects MY family.....and the world we live in.....It's time to put the boot to some of this stuff.

"It's time to put the boot to some of this stuff." - It has always been the time people live in. What is prevalent today is apathy. As in Rome, the attention getter is the circus and not the affairs of state/society.

"Tyrants succeed where God fails." - https://www.newsmax.com/jerrynewcombe/gorbachev-marx-engels/2022/09/08/id/1086605/

Every law is an outcome of morality, which establishes the ability to legislate morality. The question is not whether morality can be legislated, but "whose".

We leased our land to a wind farm. Would have been great income for us but the site was shut down by our governor and it was built elsewhere. He said our land was too pretty for us to use it how we want to. Once again another example of government overreach to private citizens.

Im fairly certain you haven't a clue about the complexity's associated with offshore wind farming........ya know like ya just don't drive your pickup truck out there.

Ya also completely disregarded the destruction to the Marin life these high powered sonar ships are doing. But hey it doesn't affect you right , so who cares !!!

I'm just guessing on the fuel burn of these ships but a friend of mine works on a 120' tug and 2000 gallons per week is an extremely conservative number

If KS was interested in any of this he would be piling up his peer review links and other links that he thinks will prove his case. Usually they don’t

I did not say you were a civil servant. I said you are the perfect civil servant.

RK- thanks for the non-response to my question.

Although I couldn't find anything on the affect of sonar on the ocean floor life I'm referring to. Ya know like the bottom of the food chain that the bait fish feed on that attracts the pelagic predator species that we fish for. There's been a noticable decline in the fishery in these areas.

Came through your part of the world in mid December Fueled up and got a rockfish sandwich at Stingrays (I think) before heading through the tunnels. Pretty part of the world

Whoa, Mind blown:>)))))

In the late 70's I served aboard a nuclear polaris submarine. Shortly after leaving Spain and submerged, we headed north in the Atlantic. We were detected by a task force of surface ships which stepped up their sonar pinging as we went to battle stations and came to a full stop. Later I heard that the Captain was advised by our sonarmen that the ships were American and so holding our position was the non-threatening thing to do. Our mission forbade us to communicate to any other ships. We spent the next two hours hearing that incessant ping ringing in our head, through the hull and superstructure of the ship, as desk sailors back in the states scrambled to ascertain who was this sub and why was it there.

Yeah, I believe marine life could be harmed.

not sure why, not enough wind i suppose, but it seems like an awful lot of money not to be used...

Then there is talk about checking emissions on them....i'll just bet that'll be free.

Enough is enough....NOT Happening.

yea....typical liberal gov't official meeting.

Show up at the office at 9:00 (or later)....tell the secretary (man disguised as a woman)...order me a coffee and pastry, and hold my calls, we will be meeting to discuss important stuff....... after the usual, gossip, golf talk, etc...."well lets see".... "what can we do about "climate change"?? hmm,, think think think...hmm, ...boy...., "can you guys think of anything? i gotta have something to present to big Joe"...hmmm,.... aw looky there, got pastry on my new tie....think, think, think..."well we don't want to mess with the railroad, or anything to do with ships, we are going on a cruise, and we don't want to mess with airlines, that'll mess up big Joes umpteen vacations"...hmmm...hmmm, think think think....I GOT IT!! LETS BAN GAS STOVES !!! hurray, what a brilliant idea, sock it to the little guy, big Joe will love it.... What about, hunting camps, campers, grills etc....?....yea lets form a committee and a gas stove task force ....tough guys, pow pow pow, bust up them gas stoves....yea

The stupidity and ignorance surrounding today’s Democratic Party has reached a point where it’s irreversible. An election is going to fix any of this. There won’t be any civil war, we are just gonna hold on for the ride down the drain.

In fifty years this country is going to look like China. Government transportation and high rise efficiency apartment units with people milling about in masks 24-7. F’ed up power grid so we’ll all be shutting of our A/C units around 9pm.

Of course you won’t see that reported on right wing media because they can get more mileage by lying about it.

"U.S. Consumer Product Safety (CPSC) Commissioner Richard Trumka Jr. told Bloomberg News earlier this week that natural gas stoves, used by millions of Americans every day, are a “hidden hazard” and said that “any option is on the table.”"

One "official" consumer safety person.

Phil, Downplaying the left suits you well.

Get those bellows ready!

You mean, just like the southern border? China Joe says it’s secure, but right wing media has been showing pictures and videos of illegals pouring in like a river. Lies!

China Joe said the vaccine will prevent infection. Lie!

China Joe says he’s never taken a dime from foreign interests. It’s a lie.

China Joe says misinformation needs to be regulated. Yet Elon Musk discovered that Twitter was colluding with the FBI to censor anything that might threaten joes election. They also censored information that didn’t fit the pandemic narrative. In other words, they lied!

China Joe says keeping classified documents is irresponsible for Trump to do, yet, we discovered (last November) a cache of classified documents in joes possession and suddenly it’s not a problem?! He’s a liar!

China Joe still claims that Capitol police died during J6. Lies, lies, lies!

A majority of the crap you bowlibs spew, has recently been discovered to be cover-ups and lies. Yet you still maintain your loyalty to him and defend his perpetual dishonesty.

Between Twitter getting exposed and Kevin McCarthy picking up the gavel, your woke empire is about to come crashing down. Hopefully it happens before he has a chance to pollute the rest of the country with any more useless wind turbines.

I got home Monday from Central and South America. Bring up EV, solar or wind farms and they look at you like you’re crazy. Most pollution comes from “under developed” countries and they have no intention of changing. It’s like bailing out a boat while your buddy is knocking more holes in it.

well chickens aren't laying very good, so wife had to buy eggs....checked them to make sure there were no cracked ones, and found a couple cartons with eggs missing, people stealing eggs now because they are so expensive?...lol...good grief, the whole "green thing" isn't our only issue....better get a handle on this inflation as well....and the whole "green thing"...sure isn't going to help that.

The combustion reaction of natural gas…

CH4 + 2O2 ——> CO2 + 2H2O

That reaction releases energy that cooks my food and converts methane into carbon dioxide. Methane is 75-80 times more powerful as a greenhouse gas.

I’m saving the planet.

"“Nobody is banning gas stoves. That was just a ridiculous comment mentioned by one consumer safety person. Nobody, including the President, supports this at all. Of course you won’t see that reported on right wing media because they can get more mileage by lying about it.”

I should have said at the federal level. States are free to do whatever they want which is right in line with what conservatives believe and the Constitution says.

"You mean, just like the southern border? China Joe says it’s secure, but right wing media has been showing pictures and videos of illegals pouring in like a river. Lies!"

The border has been an issue for every President. The Republicans won't sit down and discuss solutions because the get more mileage making it a political issue.

"China Joe said the vaccine will prevent infection. Lie!"

The vaccine does prevent infection and lessens he severity of those vaccinated people that get COVID. FACT.

"China Joe says he’s never taken a dime from foreign interests. It’s a lie."

I don't know. Haven't seen his bank statements. But we all know the Republicans have taken foreign money.

"China Joe says misinformation needs to be regulated. Yet Elon Musk discovered that Twitter was colluding with the FBI to censor anything that might threaten joes election. They also censored information that didn’t fit the pandemic narrative. In other words, they lied! "

I wouldn't trust Elon Musk any farther than I could throw him. But if censoring misinformation about how the vaccine is useless or COVID isn't bad is what you're talking about then it should be censored on a private forum.

"China Joe says keeping classified documents is irresponsible for Trump to do, yet, we discovered (last November) a cache of classified documents in joes possession and suddenly it’s not a problem?! He’s a liar!"

It appears Biden did not knowingly take classified documents, immediately notified NARA when they were found, had his aides search to see if there were more and, when more were found he reported that as well. In the case of Trump, he took the documents knowing they were classified, claimed he de-classified them in a broad, illegal sweeping gesture, tried to hide them, ignored a subpeona, then gave a token batch of documents up but kept the rest, leading to the very legal and productive raid on his golf club.

"China Joe still claims that Capitol police died during J6. Lies, lies, lies!"

That isn't worth even discussing.

"A majority of the crap you bowlibs spew, has recently been discovered to be cover-ups and lies. Yet you still maintain your loyalty to him and defend his perpetual dishonesty."

If you are getting your information from right wing media you have no room to talk about lies.

"Between Twitter getting exposed and Kevin McCarthy picking up the gavel, your woke empire is about to come crashing down. Hopefully it happens before he has a chance to pollute the rest of the country with any more useless wind turbines."

McCarthy sold his soul to become speaker and will do nothing of consequence. If you understand how our government works you know that any legislation passed by the House will die in the Senate or be vetoed by Biden.

You should have resisted.

Ok. You all have fun. I’m out on that note.

And if that doesn’t work, the FBI can manipulate it to favor the Dems and make Trump look bad in the process.

The same excuses are getting old. Keep parroting those CNN reporting guidelines. They may not be truthful, but they are entertaining! I think you also pay way too much attention to Jean Pierre. You act like she’s actually convincing people that the Democrats can do no wrong. Lol!

By the way. When will Trump be “ led away in manacles”?

That’s why I didn’t respond because the discussion is just silly.

“Products that can’t be made safe can be banned,” he said, adding that federal agencies could set “standards on emissions from the appliances.”

"Biden Administration Responds After Federal Agency Suggests Gas Stove Ban" https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_app/biden-administration-responds-after-federal-agency-suggests-gas-stove-ban_4978308.html?utm_source=Morningbrief&src_src=Morningbrief&utm_campaign=mb-2023-01-12&src_cmp=mb-2023-01-12&utm_medium=email&est=PGJweDhxTCz17N%2Bgh3u2wtu4uq7eMnIWSqWY8eQd3O389rKznS%2FxRvM%3D

Phil, You should have resisted.

So IF the vaccine prevents infection of those vaccinated, why also try to tell me that it lessens the severity. It either prevents infections or it doesn't ...and if someone gets covid after getting the vaccine, then obviously it doesn't prevent anything.

How will they strip mine most of the planet to get the lithium and graphite to build enough batteries to replace all the combustion engines. Battery excavators, earth movers and dump trucks. Battery processing plants to build solar panels and batteries. I’ve got it !! Perpetual energy, batteries building batteries

Yes, it does prevent it but not totally. Nothing is absolute and nobody claimed it was. People are still able to contract it just as people that had it once can contract it again. But it's not even a question, except in the right wing crazies world, whether vaccines are effective.

I suppose you’re almost 100% kinda sure of that aren’t you? Lol!

What I really want to know is, are we going to convert all the current combustion vehicles into electric, or just abandon them altogether? I suppose the plan is to just bury them in the ground, like a broke down wind turbine. Sounds like they’ll just become more environmental hazards to contribute to our dying planet! Lol!

You really didn’t think this out did you.

Yeah, eliminating the demand for oil in fuel is a great idea.

" Nothing is absolute and nobody claimed it was." - Truth is, was, and ever will be.

" But it's not even a question, except in the right wing crazies world, whether vaccines are effective."

The left has a faith/trust which is blind to reason, of course they don't question what their earthly masters tell them, that's how indoctrination affects people, you included.

Indoctrination = the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically:

Believers, unbelievers and make believers; saved or indoctrinated, ALL have to answer the first question from the Bible, "Where are you?"

As they say, the wheels of justice turn slowly.

But quacks aside.....the Bible tells us this world will be destroyed by fire. How that will all come about i do not know. But i believe.......i have to....nothing else makes sense to me, and no i do not claim to understand fully. But this i know, as complicated, and diverse, as our earth is, from the changing tides, to rain from the sky, to a buck in rut and mankind....let alone the stars in heaven and the great universe.....There has to be something far greater out there than man......and at the "end of the road we will meet God".....that is something far greater than my simple understanding.....I encourage you if you haven't considered that....do so.

There are lots of things out there greater than man for which there is real proof. We're not remotely as important in the big picture as many of us would like to believe. In large, humans are conceited about living and easily led with fear to believe death can't/shouldn't be the end of them. It's understandable I suppose, but not personally convincing to those of us not prone to indoctrination or baseless fear.

Your 50 gallon comment is a broad statement when it comes to how much oil a wind turbine uses in a year. Depending on the size of the turbine that number can go up or down. Then throw in how blades are pitched that number changes as well. Turbine companies like Vestas us hydraulic pitch for blades where as GE uses electric motors for blade pitch.

I scratch my head at the agendas pushed by government. Turbines are getting bigger and bigger. With that foundations get bigger and bigger. Well the added mass in concrete brings on curing temp issues. One way to help combat that is to have a mix design with 25% fly ash or even as high as 35%. With the amount of coal plants shut down it has hurt the supply side of fly ash.

I have put up thousands of wind turbines. Not a single one has a diesel engine in it. LOL.

"their outlandish claims"

OK, as an adult consider this, you have to be smaller than a hypocrite to hide behind one. What proof do you have that God doesn't exist? Aristotle called God the prime mover of existence. Who has indoctrinated you?

You say you have faith, my question is, in what? Faith is usually understood as a sincere trust. As you say, you sense a purpose in having survived, that may be so, but without knowledge of, to what end? For a believer, the knowledge of God is not by way of what other people say, but the exchange of revelation of himself to you. God reveals himself through his word. The god most people know is too small to be actual God. So, God has revealed himself in a unique fashion. He not only reveals himself by a written word, but by also personifying that word in a man, the Lord Jesus.

Daily all people suffer the consequences of sin in this world. Sometimes it is our own sin or in many cases the sin of others. Daily all people are moving towards eternity, and what that amounts to for each individual depends on our response to God, here and now. Mankind flaunts his pride in saying, "show me and I'll believe", whereas God states, "believe and I will show you". Faith/trust is understanding who you are dealing with. He calls to us and our response is instrumental to the shape of our eternal existance.

Because of the magnitude of God, what his creation suffers in it's lifetime, is not worthy of comparison to the glory to be revealed. "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." 1Corinthians 2:9

Loving somebody you don't know is humanly impossible. Because God loves you, he has made it possible for you to love him in return. "Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

God reveals himself, are you really looking?

Bigdog21, If the Bible says how the world ends, how then is it "their" plan/direction? You think you know the times we are in? Jesus said before leaving Earth, "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power."Acts 1:7, whereas you say you do know. Hmmmmm, IMHO Jesus has more credibility than you. Open minds are like open windows, without screens the bugs get in.

In all your studies, have you ever heard of the Convention of States?

Four years before there was a 2nd Amendment, the writers of the Constitution questioned what could be done if the Federal government took rights from the people and become tyrannical. Article V was rewritten to allow the states to hold a convention and propose amendments to the Constitution without the approval of Congress, because they understood Congress would not fix the government themselves, to the satisfaction of the people. If you are just waiting to use your guns to be free, you've waited too long and will cost many Americans their lives. Sign the petition, learn more and spread the word. It is what the founders wanted and is better than resorting to killing people. A little over half the states have signed on to the convention and there are people in every state working to get to this convention.

https://conventionofstates.com/

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." 2Chronicles 7:14

God doesn't say take up arms, he calls on believers to repent, pray and turn from their wicked ways.

If you think your way is easier, think again.

"There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." Proverbs 16:25

2wild bill......thanks for the sermons brother, but I'm afraid our government's well past being saved by the good book.

I was 18-19 first warm spell in spring I was on the Potomac river small mouth fishing I underestimated the current And got swept down the river. Within minutes I could barely tread water, the cold was quickly sucking the life out of me. I hadn't seen a single person that morning and out of nowhere a kayak showed up drug me to shore and then vanished just as mysteriously as it had appeared. There's not a doubt in my mind that an angel spared my life that morning. This is but one of many times I should have died. I believe in god and the heavens. I don't understand all the pain and suffering in this world. Myself personally have had a great life. The rest of my family not so much. This I'll never understand and you nor any other preacher man has never come up with a ,,, logical,,, explanation.

"logical,,, explanation For this"

"As it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement." Hebrews 9:27 It wasn't your time to die yet, and God, in his mercy spared you then, so the obvious reason was to give you more time to hear of his love for you.

Let's suppose you are crossing a street and suddenly you are shoved from behind and the force hurls you to the other side of the street. You turn to see what happened and find that somebody saw a danger to you from a speeding vehicle and shoved you clear. However, in that process that person was struck and killed. Naturally speaking, you would have an interest in learning who that was and why you were cared for. In your case we find, "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

If you think you can see/hear this and continue on in life saying "I'll never understand this", that's a pretty lame excuse. "God so loved timex, that he gave his only begotton son to die for the sins of timex. God loves you, but where you go from here is on you. I would suggest you open the Bible to the gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke or John and learn more about God's son, the Savior.You want to talk about pain? Jesus suffered crucifixion, actual pain, for you.

Iowa and Phil,

Phil you are closer to a better understanding. Yes, the government is not an entity, but a collection of people. We the people are the government. Our neglect of civic responsibility has permitted other people to misconstrue our relationship to the system we have agreed to live by. The writers of the Constitution foresaw the dilemma we would be in today and modified Article V to give we the people a legitimate means to restore the balance of political power back to ourselves. Legitimacy is the standing or falling of any system of governance. Lawlessness has grown, but has not the legitimacy which the Constitution describes. This is the issue Americans understand and are politically concerned about. The sea of ignorance in America is vast, but not complete. By the grace of God and persistent outpouring of truth, we can lift America out of ignorance.

You can surrender yourself to a hopeless existence or fight to the death for the cause of freedom, that's your choice. As spoken by Patrick Henry, "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"

Abraham Lincoln said,"Freedom is the natural condition of the human race, in which the Almighty intended men to live. Those who fight the purpose of the Almighty will not succeed. They always have been, they always will be beaten."

Freedom comes from God and is stated so in the Declaration of Independence. Most Americans are free-born and some are naturalized, believers in God are both. That is, born again of God and purchased with the blood of Christ. Phil, you never could have been good enough when you tried to be a Christian, and I'm sure you did try. To be purchased by God is a humbling experience and eternal freedom is only found there.

And that leads me to my biggest dilemma, how can I be naive enough to believe that a benevolent God would dictate only one religion for everyone in the world? That makes no sense to me. I fully understand that religion has no place in politics today and I resent anyone trying to make laws to appease a religious base.

I have no issue with people believing what they want but please don't use that belief to say they have a moral high ground. Until the people that say they are believers in Christ start acting more as he acted, with compassion, kindness and helping the less fortunate, I only see it as them feeling and acting superior to others.

Worth repeating.

Evidently you both see what you want to see, in both politics and faith in God.

Don,

"Wasn’t America built on the belief of God?"

Read the Declaration of Independence and see for yourself. American rights come not from the government, but from the Creator, and the government was formed to defend those rights.

Now that’s a stretch. What the declaration says is people have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Nowhere does it say the government is permitted to make laws influenced by a religion.

Let me put it this way. Hypocrites misconstrue our relationship to God. Yes there are make-believers, like Phil admits to having been. There at church holding down a pew and carrying a Bible. Pretending for whatever reason, but not born again of God. There's plenty of them, but they are not the majority. Why not? Because God preserves a remnant that perform the work he wants them to do and the testimony of Christ is found across this land and Earth, from the large cities to the smallest town with a church in it.

Interestingly you mention, one nation under God. It was added to the pledge by President Eisenhower in 1954. In 1812, Friedrich Nietzsche announced that "God is dead". The communist party tried to stamp out faith in God and is still working on that after all these years. The Bible tells anyone who cares to look that," “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.” Matthew 24:35

Around the world, daily, people are coming to God through Christ and his finished work on the cross. God is still in the American formula for freedom. George Washington said of the Constitution," the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support."

No sanction to bigotry and no assistance to persecution, because God and America are kindred.

Phil and KS "prefer" to stand in that long line behind the hypocrite, rather than repent and come to God on his terms. Their situation is an old story and just as true today.

timex, God isn't after your money, but your heart. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:39

I have nothing to repent for. And I have no need to live my life following the “teachings” of the god you choose. But I do believe you and everyone else has every right to believe what you like.

"Endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights". Are you suggesting that the government is the Creator?

Rather that a permit "for" government, the Constitution is a restriction of government. The power of government is by the consent of the governed, the people.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, with the Creator, because it doesn't work without the Creator of life and our rights. That's the basic problem America has today,of which you are apparently a part.

Phil, Where does it say our rights come from the government? “ Endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights". Are you suggesting that the government is the Creator?

I am not suggesting that at all. I go along with the statement as written. But I didn’t see the word God. What if they meant the Native American Creator - The Great Spirit?

Rather that a permit "for" government, the Constitution is a restriction of government. The power of government is by the consent of the governed, the people.

The power of the government is by the consent of the governed. That is why we hold elections to empower people that we choose to make decisions on our behalf.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, with the Creator, because it doesn't work without the Creator of life and our rights. That's the basic problem America has today,of which you are apparently a party.

There is nothing in the document that says that. It only says the Creator endowed us with certain rights. It says nothing about his continuing participation.

One of the basic problems America faces today is the group of religious people that think government is supposed to make laws based on religious beliefs. And they are intolerant of anyone that doesn’t agree with them.

Good question! …or perhaps Alah, or Buddha, or any of the other hundreds of gods that are out there. Every single religion claims to have ‘the only’ God there is. They can’t all be right.

Matt

Matt

"One of the basic problems America faces today is the group of religious people that think government is supposed to make laws based on religious beliefs."

Thou shalt not murder, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness, etc. are all Biblical. Which are you in favor of eliminating because they are associated with believers in God?

"the group of religious people that think government is supposed to make laws based on religious beliefs." You're talking about the founders and calling them the problem with America today? That's "woke talk" and I see you've bought into it.

One thing is as certain today as it’s always been and will be: It’s the reaction a direct talking Christian, preaching THE teachings of the Bible, brings out the spiritual conditions of some peoples heart. All conditions.

Besides, the Declaration isn’t the guiding document for our country. Now the Constitution expressly prohibits establishing or promoting religion. That is clear to everyone except those that refuse to see it that the founding fathers, no matter their personal beliefs, did not want laws made based on religious beliefs.

Believe and practice as you choose. Just don’t force your beliefs in others.

Those are only Christian morals? I’m pretty sure every civilization prior and after Jesus, and non-Christian countries, generally had/have those same morals/laws.

George Washington's First Inaugural Address.

It would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes, and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success the functions allotted to his charge. … No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which conducts the affairs of men more than those of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency. … Since we ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained; and since the preservation of the sacred fire of liberty and the destiny of the republican model of government are justly considered, perhaps, as deeply, as finally, staked on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people

Did you note the words: rules, presides, providential aids, enable, his charge. George was referring to Almighty God. Don't you get it that a continued presence was what was expected from the God he knew? No, that doesn't fit your agenda.

But none of that answers my questions about where you see God in the Constitution. Because that is our governing document and it clearly says religion should not play any role in laws that are made. Not your religion, not Jewish religion, not Muslim religion…..

The Declaration of Independence was and is exactly what the title implies. It is an explanation or declaration to the people of the country as well as the world of why the United States was declaring it's independence from England. That was step 1 effectively in the establishment of a new country.

The U. S. Constitution was created as (as has been mentioned) the "guiding document" of this new country. And based on the world history of religious persecution and intolerance that was prevalent even then, the framers chose to allow each individual to make their own decisions about religion. They were very smart fella's. That was step 2.

Given the amount of time that passed between the signing of the Declaration of Independence and the ratification of the Constitution, there was a lot of thought put into it and it was intentionally crafted to be religiously neutral.

It really isn't complicated until people start trying to bend the content of the document to fit their own personal agenda.

The Lord’s Name The U.S. Constitution does reference the Lord and clearly, this is the Lord God for there is no doubt even with the way they dated their document as we read in the close of the Constitution in Article VII that this was “Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America” showing both the Lord’s name and also in specifying the year in which our Lord was born into human flesh and by which we date our years. During George Washington’s first Proclamation as President he said “it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor.” [2] Strange talk for an unbeliever, if he were. The most likely reason that God doesn’t appear by name in the Articles of Confederation was because it does not appear in the Preamble in the Articles of Confederation because that document was what they based the Constitution on. It is not hard to see that the fundamental principles and laws of our nation were based upon the Ten Commandments and the ethics of Jesus Christ.

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures(In Phil's case, the Constitution) nor the power of God." Matthew 22:29

Using your logic, observing Martin Luther King by giving employees a day off is a religious holiday?. I doubt anything I say would ever change your mind because you seem so ingrained in believing a personal philosophy about religion but if you would take ten minutes and look at it from the other viewpoints it would be clear to you that our government was never intended to be directed by a religion. In fact, it was intended to protect citizens from that very thing.

Bottom line here is no matter how much you try to spin it, our country's governing document expressly forbids permitting religion to be used in creating laws. I'm not lying about that. I'm not being a revisionist about that. It's a fact that you tend to overlook.

They haven’t even investigated the carcasses yet. They do know that fishing and boats have killed 40% of those they could examine since 2016. I sure don’t hear Timex or anyone else calling for the end of commercial fishing.

I haven’t seen any information about the cause but why would that matter? Oh yeah because it’s a NOAA conspiracy.

Timex- If you’re so certain that they killed an endangered whale and you have all the evidence then take it to USFWS/NOAA law enforcement and they can be charged with a felony. Shouldn’t be hard. The ESA has real legal teeth.

It’s just so exhausting…

Conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy! Everything the bowlibs have called a conspiracy in the last 2 years, have shown to be anything but. Ineffective vaccine a conspiracy. Except it isn’t a conspiracy, it has various tidbits of truth to it. The border issue is a conspiracy. But it’s actually a real issue. You called the censorship to change the election, Hunter Bidens laptop, and COVID origin, a conspiracy. But it really isn’t a conspiracy.

The China Joe admin is completely killing this country’s economy, security, financial stability, and social stability. Look around you…it’s not a conspiracy. This country is going down the drain because the democrats are only in it to line their own pockets. How you can sit back and defend the stupidity is totally beyond me. But what do I know, I voted for Trump. By the way, we’re still waiting to see him led away in manacles. Ain’t that right Dana C? You probably agree that china joes document dump was an innocent mistake… since Trump is the true criminal here. Lol!

Wait til Kamala takes over. She’ll make it all better!!!

10 plus whale's recently during the winter months when there's nothing to catch cause the waters to cold and nobody is fishing definitely not.

Nice try brother but that's a swing and a miss for you.

I stated above....it has been said in the Bible the earth will be destroyed by fire. I believe that. When or the exact conditions at the time...i do not know. I do know one thing.....i don't put much faith in the mentality of people that think its normal or ok to practice some of the "abnormality's" so prevalent in our culture today...including any great revelations on climate change.

Or a leader that spouts off about "NO MORE DRILLING"...or says he's going to eliminate fossil fuel by such and such a date, all the while struggling to make a speech from a teleprompter. Or a president of a college that promotes critical race theory, and "woke"...and turns right around and singles people out and separates them as "people of color"....??

You folks follow who you want....believe what you want....frankly i want firmly rooted and planted in common sense.....every time i turn on the news, i see some crazy stuff.....TV?...good grief.... some commercials?.....lol....then tell me there is no God, and its ok that those two guys are smooching....And lets all jump on the climate change bus.

Things are going to be what they are....You make the bed you sleep in.... And why are all these climate change quacks still flying in airplanes?....and being driven in their limo's?

Perhaps dragging for cod off the new England coast but nothing along the Delmarva coast in that cold 50 degree water

Kinda hard for a fishing boat that isn't there to kill a whale don't ya think.

I agree & disagree. The crap on tv is eye opening for sure.

Are humans affecting this planet negatively ? I believe so.

Is there anything were gonna do to change that ?

It seems to me that there's not much common cents middle ground thinking on the subject.

It's either ignore it completely with zero concerns for our children's, children's, children's future.

Or the other extreme of zero fossil fuel usage by 2050 which is just insanely unrealistic.

Or we can just say screw it, it's in god's hands and I'm just gonna live my life and what ever happens, happens !!!

So far, no evidence has tied offshore wind development to the humpback and sperm whale deaths — five of which have been reported in New Jersey — and it remains unclear if seven whale deaths in just over a month is atypical, some activists and officials said. Some organizers have suspected survey work — including sonar mapping and increased vessel activity — could be having a fatal impact on marine life. However, as of now state and federal agencies have not drawn a connection.“

“ They’re doing forensic tests on the carcasses, which could say if its a) diseased, b) trauma or some unknown factor which could be hard to trace,” said Farrell.

While Farrell declined to speculate on other causes of death before investigations are concluded, he said vessel traffic in and around New Jersey continues to be high, as are humpback whale sightings.”

“ The Marine Mammal Stranding Center, which responds to whale strandings in New Jersey, deferred comment Tuesday to NOAA. On Sunday, in an update on a necropsy performed on the recent whale to wash up in Brigantine, the center said the whale had blunt trauma injuries that appeared to indicate it was struck by a vessel.

“Although there has been speculation about whether these whale deaths are linked to wind energy development, at this point no whale mortality has been attributed to offshore wind activities,” the center said in a summary of the examination performed on the dead whale.”

“Nice try brother but that's a swing and a miss for you”

Nah, brother I’m not even swinging a bat. I waiting for results of the necropsy before I say anything. You, you’re saying that sonar from a wind farm construction killed all 7 of these whales as fact. Your data…you have been fishing in the area. At least 1 of the 7 whales shows evidence of possible boat strike. The data is an actual necropsy. However, it’s preliminary. We don’t know what killed them yet.

You’re swinging incessantly before the pitcher even winds up.

The only thing you are actually doing is knowingly and willingly spreading misinformation just like azelkhntr. No different

Freaking use your brain and do a little research. At least wait until there’s some actual information.

It amazes me how people just run with the popular narrative.

If you are ocean fishing off the Atlantic coast today, you’d better be in the Gulf Stream or in southern waters. Everyone knows this that’s wet one line off shore fishing. But, the popular narrative is it’s boats killing the whales.

FEIW, the reason the OBX is so popular is due to its location to the warm Gulf Stream. It’s the farthest north the Gulf Stream gets close enough to run and fish in a boat by the day.

But, it’s easy to say boats killed those whales. It didn’t happen like that this time.

Now imagine sonar powerful enough to penitrate 100s of feet of salt water then determine the makeup and density of the sea floor bottom mud,rock,sand, etc town to I honestly don't know how deep. You seriously believe this doesn't affect marine mammals. I can't believe your naive enough to believe big brother when big brother has billions in proffets to be made

I don’t think the experts doing the necropsies have provided any answers. That’s the point but of course you don’t get that.

“I can't believe you’re naive enough to believe big brother when big brother has billions in proffets to be made.”

70lbs- There’s your conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy.

Timex- please tell me the power output and model of sonar being used. Also, tell me exactly how many billions the biologists doing the necropsies are making off this. Maybe you should go work for NOAA because they will be amazed at how you can determine the cause of death of whales from a drone photo for which you don’t even know the source. I’m sure you will make billions.

"Unfortunately for many whales, dolphins and other marine life, the use of underwater sonar (short for sound navigation and ranging) can lead to injury and even death. Sonar systems—first developed by the U.S. Navy to detect enemy submarines—generate slow-rolling sound waves topping out at around 235 decibels; the world’s loudest rock bands top out at only 130. These sound waves can travel for hundreds of miles under water, and can retain an intensity of 140 decibels as far as 300 miles from their source. These rolling walls of noise are no doubt too much for some marine wildlife. While little is known about any direct physiological effects of sonar waves on marine species, evidence shows that whales will swim hundreds of miles, rapidly change their depth (sometime leading to bleeding from the eyes and ears), and even beach themselves to get away from the sounds of sonar."

Matt

KS, are you saying times is wrong when he says: “I can't believe you’re naive enough to believe big brother when big brother has billions in proffets to be made.”?

If that’s your opinion, then you need to pay closer attention to what the Biden cartel is really focusing on. Here’s a hint… it’s not the left or right side of the American people they serve, it’s themselves.

I don’t know anything about sonar being used at this wind farm he is talking about and neither does he. I don’t know whether the sonar he’s talking about it can kill whales either. We don’t even know I’d sonar surveys were being conducted at the time and neither does he.

We do know that preliminary results on one of the whales he’s talking about was injured by blunt force trauma.

He’s making wild accusations without any real evidence. If you don’t see that then it’s because you don’t want to.

He may be right about the other 6 whales. Let the experts figure it out. But that doesn’t matter because if it’s not the predetermined cause Timex thinks it is he will just say it’s a conspiracy.

Furthermore I'm not educated in offshore wind farm production or maintenance and eventually the energy it can produce. But I do know the logistics of offshore wind farms are huge. The initial expenses are huge the vessels that service the ones off of VA beach are huge catamaran boats. And at this point it's nothing but a huge experiment.

Really? You just stated that you don’t know any more about the subject than he does. But I’d be willing to bet he knows more since he spends more time there. Claiming misinformation is simply another way of saying that you can’t win the argument and you refuse to hear other people’s opinions due to your lack of knowledge on the subject. The liberal term of misinformation is a cop out! If you don’t have the information to debate a topic, you can simply admit it, instead of discrediting others that may actually know something about the subject.

“I don’t see his outrage with boats and fishing. Why? Because of his bias against offshore wind farms.”

Everyone I know has bias against offshore wind farms. They’re ugly, and they don’t produce enough electricity to justify putting thousands of them out there, and killing the marine habitat.

“If you don’t see that then it’s because you don’t want to.”

Uh no, it’s because when I see something that seems to be a coincidence, I contemplate the possibilities. it’s human nature to speculate.

“We both know you're never going to get them to understand or to use logic and common sense when there's a good conspiracy theory out there.”

What do liberals know about logic and common sense? As soon as someone threatens the liberal agenda, logic and common sense go out the window, and are replaced with lies and half truths.

You all lost what little credibility you had when it was discovered that Twitter weaponized the FBI to give the Dems an advantage. You believe everything they tell you and nothing that you actually witness, as long as Trump is being suppressed from your viewpoint.

We don’t agree politically, and we’ve never met face to face, but I know you’re a lot smarter than that. Problem is you think everyone that disagrees with you is a gullible fool. It gets old fast. Before the term misinformation was introduced, we used to have some good debates here. Now it’s nothing but arguments and name calling. It gets old fast!

I’d always heard that dolphins and whales will actually protect a swimmer from predators, and drowning. I never saw proof of it until I joined the Navy. I was stationed on a guided missile destroyer. We were training off the coast of San Diego. They’d bring the ship to full speed and conduct a man overboard drill by tossing a floating dummy in the water. The goal was to rescue the man as quickly as possible. Once the dummy goes in the water, it takes a little time to slow down and circle back to locate him. As we approached the dummy, it was surrounded by a pod of pilot whales. The captain ordered a full stop, and a temporary disabling of the ships sonar. We retrieved the dummy and waited until the whales left before continuing on with our mission. I asked why the sonar was disabled and was told it was a law to disable it if there were whales in a certain vicinity of the ship. That was in 1990, so I know it’s been an active topic for many years. Sharks can smell a drop of blood in the water from miles away. Why is it such a conspiracy to think that whales are affected by sonar waves?

Matt

He misspoke; big difference. You knew exactly what he was referring to, but took advantage of his mistake.

Hey, who do I sound like?!

How do you spend so much time on ‘misinformation’? You’re basically saying that you have never personally said, or, expressed anything to anyone that was not 100% verifiable, and scientifically accurate in your lifetime?

Yeah, I know, sounds ridiculous right?! That could be our new conspiracy!

So I’m curious. Did you read GG’s article? Have you researched the topic? It’s like the rest of the recent theories you complain about, it’s s plausible if not indisputable. C’mon man!!

The link is the Biological Assessment conducted for these types of activities. Notice section 5.1 and Table 27. There are conditions (best management practices; BMPs) that offshore wind companies must follow as part of their lease agreements. BMPs for sonar use that minute impacts to whales. They include frequency use, intensity, and seasonal use of sonar among other required conditions. The point is that sonar surveys are regulated to protect marine mammals. Regulations based on scientific studies on the effects of sonar on marine life.

Is it plausible that a company violated the lease conditions and injured whales. Yes. Is it plausible that there are many other causes (disease, vessel collisions, entanglement) of whale deaths. Yes. But just because it’s possible or plausible doesn’t make it so.

They know the cause of death of one whale and it was blunt force trauma. See link above. IMO it is irresponsible of a critical thinking adult to conclude, without any evidence, that sonar killed them. We will know the results of the necropsy so why not wait for the facts?

We have known sonar can harm or kill marine life since the 1950s. That’s why the use is regulated.

If the survey sonar did cause the death then someone is probably pretty nervous right now as one of the whales that washed up was a federal endangered species. If they violated regulations or the lease conditions and killed an endangered species then jail time could be an outcome. At a minimum, their company will be bankrupt. Good luck with marketing your services in the future with that on your resume.

Drawing conclusions based on weak speculation is a big part of the cause of division in our country IMO.

I actually believe we SHOULD be taking care of our earth, water and air...being good stewards. However, i also believe we put way to much faith in leadership and authority, that is leading in the WRONG direction.

We have a habit of trying to fix one problem, and creating another. First off where is all the funding for this climate change stuff coming from?...who will pay for all the 60,000$ new gasoline pickups...when we convert to electric scooters? And what about that busy gas station in the morning when people are pulling in and out of the pumps every couple minutes, now all forced to wait till their new electric buggy charges? We are looking at high gas prices, 6.00 a dozen eggs, and inflation like we have not seen in decades, and a national deficit, that would cost every person nearly $280,000 dollars to fix. All a result of supposed educated men with soft hands and 3 piece suits, leading this country. In one office of our gov't, we got men who have filled their pockets, and lied, countless numbers of times squawking about climate change and stopping drilling etc...covering up for a bum of a crack head son....And in another office we have men dressed like women, and waving rainbow flags.... AND YOU FOLKS LISTEN TO THEM !!!......are ya all nuts?

Then here comes ...me-you...living on the other side of the country with ...mine -your... opinion on the subject ...

You don't live here, it's not on your local news every night , it doesn't affect where you hunt or in this case fish. And yet you seam to have such a strong knowledge and opinion of what's happening here.

You don’t know for a fact that sonar from a wind project killed those whales. Do you? Did you misspeak like 70lbs said? Do you know the type of sonar used? Sonar intensity? Sonar frequency? Do you know the day the whale died? So you know if they used a sonar that could kill a whale (which is illegal) on that day? Was the military using sonar in the area that day? Do you know anything for fact except a friend told you a rumor about sonar being done and whales being beached?

Stop passing off opinion and hyperbole as fact and you won’t get called out.

I hear this kind of stuff in my business all the time. Things like:

You all installed that pipeline and now my chickens won’t lay eggs.

You built that road 2 miles away now my cow won’t give milk.

You put up those turbines and it caused my cat to stop giving kittens.

Matt

Let me remind you that this is government funded research.....And the organization doing the biopsy to determine the whale's mortality are also government funded!!!

What I do know is that there's been more dead whale's in the last 6 months than in the previous 6 yeast and this just happens to coincide with the recent offshore seafloor sonar mapping in search of suitable wind farm locations.

It's pretty evident at this point that it's not just a coincidence that the two are somehow related.

And also pretty evident at this point that the coincidence couldn't be pounded into your head with a hammer !!!

Matt

There you go again. There has been 177 humpback beaching on the east coast in the last 6 years. That’s only one species. 40% were due to boat strike or fishing gear entanglement. 60% were undetermined. So again you make statements as fact when it isn’t true.

I never claimed it was a ‘fact’. But if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it deserves consideration.

shademt just explained it in a pretty clear and concise statement. I’m sure you disagree with him, but that’s only because China Joe told you so.

KS, are you in support of off shore wind farms, or do you have any concerns with them?

I really don’t have an opinion on offshore wind because I don’t live there. Absolutely there are concerns. I have empathy for anyone who lives off the beachfront and bought the property for the views. That’s a real issue IMO. There will be wildlife impacts no doubt. I probably wouldn’t like it either. I get why Timex doesn’t want them but that’s no excuse to make up stuff and pass it off as fact.

I was talking to a landowner at a wind project one time. He was upset about the potential noise of the turbines. I mean he was pissed. He had to pause several times when talking to me because he lived next to a railroad track and a train came by. He also lived within earshot of a highway.

Matt

Did you read the biological assessment and the leasing condition regarding sonar required to minimize impacts to wildlife?

I’m interested to see what the necropsies come up with. They know the physiologically effects of sonar. They will be able to tell if the carcasses aren’t too decomposed.

Matt

It’s a concern regardless of the numerous potential causes for it happening. I don’t put the blame on one thing and ignore the other. It’s a complex yet interesting problem.

There was a tv show some time ago called Sea Sheapard. A bunch of activist trying to stop commercial whaling. I support their mission, but the way they go about it is ignorant and dangerous. Basically a crew of college kids with little, to no, sea fairing experience whatsoever. Great concept, with poor execution.

In short, yes, it bothers me regardless of the reason. The oil rigs are a problem, but wind farms will likely prove to increase the issues tenfold.

Someone recently mentioned the potential flipping of the earths magnetic field. Who’s to say that it’s not related to a natural occurrence, and we have no control over it? Our oceans and all that inhabit them are susceptible to a delicate balance of various aspects.

Not sure if that answers your question or not.

Matt

Why the bait fish and subsequent predators that feed on them have left is a discussion in itself with lots of opinions. The sonar boats are just one opinion.

It concerns me enough that the only organization I contribute to is called Captains For Clean Water. If you're not familiar with them, look them up. They are doing some fantastic work aimed at restoring the estuaries in South Florida.

Matt

I think what depresses me even more is that anything aimed at improving our environment has become synonymous with left-wing politics to some people. I'd like to think that most outdoorsman are genuinely concerned about our environment and support any common sense measures to protect it. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case. Environmentalism has become a negative concept to the political right, and that disappoints and frustrates me.

Matt

No sooner than the state representatives left, the store manager said we have sales quota's to meet or exceed and he expected just that to be done.

All those electric green lawns in all those high dollar neighborhoods around every city come at an extremely high cost to the environment.

Folks that don't know better want to blame the farmers. I worked in the farm industry and trust me, farmers are religious about soil testing and not spending a penny more than required on fertilizer to grow a certain crop.

How is sonar from preconstruction surveys for an offshore wind farm development killing whales when they haven’t used them since last summer? In addition, the sonar (frequency and intensity) being used is not known to kill whales. Lastly, using sonar that could kill whales is not permitted as a condition of the lease agreement. If anyone has any sources that says otherwise I’d love to see it.

Oh I forgot. Tucker Carlson said it was the wind farms fault.

“ I think that our fears are justified based on supposed Russian collusion, Covid mandates, critical race theory, 2020 peaceful protest, and explicit sex education including drag shows for kids!”

It was proven there was Russian collusion and there are several people from Trump’s campaign in jail for it. Despite the propaganda you were fed Covid mandates saved lives. Yes, at an economic cost but the economic cost could have been much greater. There was a riot and attack on the capitol and hundreds were charged and convicted for it. Explicit sex education? LOL. Drag shows for kids? We grew up watching cartoon and movie characters in drag. CRT? It’s clear you don’t even know what that is. Most people just call it history.

I did not go back and read all my posts on this thread but I'm fairly certain that I didn't say that I know for a ,,,fact,,,that sonar killed the whale's, what I said is the increased amount of dead whale's coincides with the wind farm sea floor mapping research.

You wanted to argue the amount of fuel these sonar ships burn, and it turned out that their fuel consumption is rated in tons per day not gallons and you shut your mouth quickly on that subject.

Now your saying these ships aren't or haven't used sonar recently. Need I remind you that even a basic bass boat depth-fish finder is eco location sonar.

You sir must live an extremely boring life in that you receive such great pleasure from arguing on the internet.

Really? I don’t recall ever hearing any reasonable politician say the goal is ANYTHING OTHER than to cancel all petroleum products.

But then again, the “reasonable” politicians that push these ignorant plans want you to buy into it and pass it before we get the opportunity to understand it.

A society of everything at our fingertips.....via smart phones....and constant interaction with our fellow man.... All while speeding down a busy highway full of people in a hurry, 15' off the bumper of the guy in front of you....

so peeps....get vaxed...mask up, ......and stay tuned for the next coming disaster, or crisis...... And above all.....lets give our politicians a thumbs up for the high inflation, and keeping things crazy.