I just can’t even wrap my mind around how it could possibly remotely work for guys coming from out of state. I’m not necessarily an EV hater, just seems obscenely impractical for hunting or my lifestyle in general.
—Jim
As an aside, I don’t think it’s better for the earth, but it’s a dang fine vehicle to drive, and pays for itself. I’ve done 18,000km in 8.5 months in it.
With the risk of being stranded, fires, a bad environmental position cradle to grave, why would anyone with all the facts in hand make this decision? Oh yeah being forced into it by a government run by green energy radicals. The dummies in my state are trying to make gas stoves and burning wood illegal, as well as petroleum-based lawn and forest care equipment (small gas engines-lawn mowers, chain saws, hedge trimmers, weed-wackers,etc.). That's what the greenie initiative is all about. I will fight against it where I can.
If I can't find a charging station and/or it takes more than 10-20 minutes to charge, that's an issue on a mountain hunt or driving a few states away to get to a mountain hunt.
But I agree with others, until they get cold weather range reliably over 300 miles, and more charging infrastructure in place, I’ll stick with my gasser.
Matt
My buddy had a Ford Escape that was EV-Hybrid and we used it traveling many times.
Under 30 miles an hour and it was EV over 30 and it used gas.
We would get like 49--55 MPG round trip.
It would charge while on gas.
Good luck, Robb
FYI, there are at least 7 states that run their entire network of charging stations 100% on renewable energy sources, and more states will get there soon. Individual charging station companies also have networks of stations that run entirely on renewable energy. EVgo for example, has 850 stations across the country that run 100% on renewable energy.
Matt
How do they select where the power comes from?
They can’t.
unless the solar or wind generation is hooked directly to that charger. With no connection to the larger distribution circuit.
They can’t direct the electrons to one specific location.
It’s like saying the water filtration plant. Or the local water tower sending specific water molecules to your faucet.
Full EV for a trip into the backcountry, I may have some range nerves and be unsure. But if I was driving around my neck of the woods chasing whitetails/turkeys, 100% I'd be willing to use one.
Grey Ghost's Link
Renewable Energy Credits. Basically, they pay for renewable energy to be generated on their behalf. Any company can purchase RECs. Every REC certifies that 1MWh of electricity was produced by a renewable source on behalf of the company.
Hope this helps,
Matt
Pretty sure that they can make that claim based on having contracted with “clean” producers to purchase whatever amount that their systems extract from the grid. It’ s not like every electron has a serial number they can track….
I don’t disagree that batteries are problematic, but so are fossil fuels; both have to be extracted from the ground and the elements used in batteries are a lot easier to recycle than burnt carbon. Which is going to be increasingly important as fossil fuels become ever more depleted. Plus you can charge a battery on renewable. Nobody has yet figured out how to farm fossil fuels.
So recognizing that it’s kind of a damned if you do/damned if you don’t situation, I don’t know why anyone would buy a new vehicle with an automatic transmission that is NOT a hybrid. Electric power’s instant torque seems like it would be most valuable for just getting a heavier vehicle off the line, so it’d be pretty damn useful for towing even if it only replaced your first gear or two.
And let’s face it…. Probably north of 90% of the population would be perfectly happy with an EV that does the driving for them, and the vehicles are probably better drivers than most of the humans doing it themselves.
My 20-year old just got his first car last Summer. Top Two priorities were 1) Manual and 2) RWD.
This exposes the soft underbelly of the whole “green” initiative.
It’s also how the elites allow themselves to fly alone in a private jet. Or Yacht
They purchase credits. Somewhere that energy is still being produced and spent. But that person gets to “feel” better about themselves. And enlightened
It’s like saying I’m eating 5 cheeseburgers and paying someone else for health credits.
In other words, it's BS.
I was driving 80km/day to work alone with an F-150. By moving to the EV I essentially make the car payments with the gas savings not driving the truck. I've averaged 2100km/month with the car, where if I would have run my truck the fuel on that would have cost me $530-$630/month depending on historical fuel prices. I take wear and tear off my truck, have no oil changes in the EV. I would have hit 300,000km with my truck in 2-3 more years. Now I could stretch my truck 10-15 more years easy if I want to.
The EV is by far the most enjoyable vehicle you've ever driven. It's faster than snot, quieter than any vehicle you've ever been inside and smoother than baby's skin. No RPM's, no transmission. Power at your fingertips to leap out in front of anything at any time. In our cold Canadian winter it only gets better because it heats up in minutes. No engine heat needed to heat the vehicle. I never visit a gas station. I just drive from home to wherever I am going and back home again. If you ever drove an e-bike and realized how much more fun than a regular bike it was it is almost like that.
There is a reason why Tesla has the worst quality of any automaker and yet the highest driver satisfaction rating of any automaker for the last number of years and the reason isn't because they make such great cars. The reason is that the EV driving experience is that much better, and they were the only ones doing it.
I always find it hilarious how most people that immediately bash EV's have never been in one. They rattle on and on about all the problems they heard about or read about on some website azelkhntr found for them. Fact of the matter is as far as usage, they are awesome for certain use scenarios. CERTAINLY not all use scenarios, and I also don't buy for one minute that they are the best thing for planet earth. It is just rich countries outsourcing their problems to poor countries unfortunately.
And you are 100% correct. They are amazing to drive. The pickup I tested cornered like a Ferrari and had almost 700 instant HP.
The driving experience is amazing. No denying that.
I even drove a Chevy Bolt which is a roller skate. And even it was a riot to drive and would easily squeal the tire
"Renewable Energy Credits. Basically, they pay for renewable energy to be generated on their behalf. Any company can purchase RECs. Every REC certifies that 1MWh of electricity was produced by a renewable source on behalf of the company."
GG - it's only because of grid stability with either combined cycle plants, hydroelectric, nuclear, gas, and newer coal plants that make anything "renewable" possible. There is simply no way the entire grid can be sustained on "renewables". Absolutely impossible.
Solar requires battery storage and the loss in heat and conversion isn't sustainable on a large scale. Wind is the closest thing to the other dependable 3, but only when wind conditions are right.
Matt
So if I win the lottery and buy myself a big ol’ sail-powered yacht with a wind/solar-powered electric kicker, am I still a hypocrite??
I’d say, though…. If fossil fuels are such a rock-solid option… why is our military pursuing (or at least investigating) biofuels for jets?
This. My wife has a plug-in hybrid (Chevy Volt) and it is fantastic for her needs. We have roof-top solar and the vast majority of her trips are local/on electric power, so she only needs to buy gas 3-4x/year for longer trips. Fun car to drive, the acceleration is impressive. We take it on all our road trips unless we need more space than it provides.
A regular EV wouldn't have near the utility.
I had actually anticipated worse range loss than I am experiencing in the winter. I figured 50%-55% loss on the -33 days, but to my surprise I didn't even lose half the battery. So my range was about 235km on the worst days.
Not sure of your age, but my guess is that nobody on this site will live to see that day. The logistics of a fossil fuel free society are astronomical at best. They may push like hell to get us there, but it will be at the inconvenience of millions that refused to switch in the first place. A smooth transition of that magnitude will take a LOT more than 20 or 30 years time.
It’s just my honest opinion, I didn’t do any scientific research, outside of common sense. If you look hard enough, you’ll still find a Ford Pinto or two on the road.
Does anyone know how long the battery (ies) are expected to last and what the approximate replacement cost is?
Like them or not, EVs are here to stay. I found it interesting that Tesla made more earnings than Ford and GM combined last year.
Matt
Suggesting things that are untrue in the form of a question is as stupid as thinking CA did that.
JohnMC's Link
........
CALIFORNIA (WTVO) — With California’s power grid under strain due to extreme heat and high demand, the utility grid operator is asking residents to avoid charging their electric vehicles. This comes days after the state announced a plan to ban the sale of gas-powered cars by 2035.
The California Independent System Operator is asking residents for “voluntary energy conservation” over the Labor Day weekend.
“The top three conservation actions are to set thermostats to 78 degrees or higher, avoid using large appliances and charging electric vehicles, and turn off unnecessary lights,” the American Public Power Association said, asking residents to limit energy usage during 4 p.m. and 9 p.m.
Because I’ll get one as soon as I can recharge it in 5 minutes and drive another 500 miles. You are such a troll, do you even have an electric vehicle or you just beaking off again?!
Maybe? Is your command of the English language so poor that you can’t discern whether it was “can’t” or “avoid” or the difference in meaning between those two words?
That’s like saying to someone: “Oh you like meat do you? Then why don’t you never eat carbs or veggies ever again and only eat meat the rest of your life and tell me how great it is then!”
I don’t understand the hatred for them. It’s like they’re the new mech head or crossbow. Just cause you buy a crossbow doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy a longbow every now and then
But if they were so great everyone would get rid of their gas guzzling trucks and cars and buy EV’s exclusively, they don’t! Including Grey Ghost and California Matt.
This is study done on the proposed Thacker Pass Lithium dig which is north of me near the Oregon border. Estimates are saying that to produce 60,000 tons of lithium, 20-30 million tons of earth will need to be mined. Think about the fuel alone it will take to dig that out and process it. My neck of the woods as the largest gold mines in North America. Those big loaders and haul trucks are consuming 300 gallons of fuel for each piece of equipment in a 24 hour period from what I hear.
As a conservative yet a conservationist, I cannot justify the head-long rush to get an EV in everyones hands. It surely is not a green solution if you ask me.
That describes so much of the 'green energy' movement. Takes more energy to build a windmill than you get out. Takes energy to clear a patch for a solar farm. Plus the energy to build all the framework that holds the solar panels (which don't build themselves.) Plus erecting the buggers. And on and on.
Out west they have 'rolling brown-outs' when demand swamps supply. What happens when you add ten million (or 50 million) EV's to the demand equation? Rivers and reservoirs are at historic lows so you can't add hydro-power. Can't site and build new nuke plants. Coal? Good luck!
If I was gambling I'd invest in ultra-light materials.
No one is against the electric vehicle itself. But the entire movement (green religion) behind the EV.
Next up after surrendering to EVs is banning cash. Digital currency will seal the deal for compliance to our masters. The Trudeau’s and AOC,s of the world.
Leave it to Matt to only attack the messenger on this one, instead of an actual rebuttal to the issue. Is it not a concern that CA already has power grid issues, and even suggests that people should "avoid" charging their mode of transportation? Is that happening, or has it happened? Its an honest question.
I do love the way the EVs drive, however, and I can foresee having one in the future. I wish Tesla's Cybertruck wasn't so goofy looking.
Matt
Good grocery getters
“Yup, there’s bound to be some challenges. Imagine when horse and buggies were replaced by combustion engines.”
Really? That replacing combustion engines with EV’s is in any way comparable to replacing horses? Even you don’t believe that dumb of a remark. It’s just a troll comment to pump up the argument. Since an EV engine is a LESS efficient way to utilize energy, its only advantage is no tail pipe emission, that’s it.
Not to mention comments about renewables, like they are just another obviously wonderful thing when it can easily argued they are more destructive to the earth environmentally than fossil fuel energy generation. Not to mention battery storage problems and mining of rare earth minerals what a disaster that is!
I think you know all this and you just enjoy being the bowsite head troll! Congrats you win the award.
I'm also not so ingrained in my political ideology to ignore that renewable energy can, and eventually will be a good thing for civilization. When a violable way to store renewable energy is developed, it will eventually replace fossil fuels as our primary source of electricity. It's inevitable. There's lots of fascinating technology being developed along those lines, if you're inclined to research it.
Fossil fuel will still be an important part of the equation, but it's a finite resource. Surely you recognize that we have to become less dependent on it.
Matt
Another leftist tactic, like you use, is talking about the future possibilities of battery storage because they sure as hell don’t want to talk about the current situation with it!
Basic physics dictates that if you lift a heavy object it stores energy until you drop it and let gravity release the energy. You can create a renewable electricity storage device by that same concept. For example, If you connect a renewable driven turbine, that acts as a pump and generator to 2 water reservoirs, one high and one low, you can create a renewable source of electricity without fossil fuels or batteries When the sun shines, or wind blows, the water is pumped from the lower to upper reservoirs, where the energy is stored until you release the water when electricity demands dictate. Then you do it all over again. That's just one basic example of how to store renewable energy without batteries. Scalability is the big hurdle.
Matt
That's an easy one. Ask bigeasygator
Now let’s talk about how the combustion fuel engine replacing horses is the same as an EV replacing the fossil fuel burning vehicle?
What is stupid though is people that think they can decide for everyone else what they should drive....
Nothing wrong with driving a EV when it makes sense to do so. Long as you don't tell me i can't use my gas or diesel 4x4 truck, way back in the mts in a foot, (or more) of snow.
People like Joe Biden , and the rest of his gang have no clue whatsoever, about the lifestyle of someone like myself. I seriously doubt the guy ever put chains on his truck, miles back some state forest road.... pulled a skid loader, or a horse trailer, used a tow strap to pull another truck out...etc...etc.. Seriously doubt he ever wore loggers grabbed a stihl off the bed of a truck, and headed into the woods. Or loaded a truck with gear for a 2 week elk hunt....
Grey Ghost's Link
I guess you are search engine challenged. To answer your question, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, South Dakota, Vermont, and Maine all use primarily renewable energy to power their EV charging stations. That was as of 2020, so there may be more states by now.
That said, I was wrong earlier when I said "100%". Those 7 states use renewable energy for the majority of their electricity, but not 100%. Sorry for the misinformation.
Matt
1) EV's would get both way better and way cheaper. Otherwise they can't do what we need them to do, and no one can afford them. Consider the liberal voter base. These are people that want help. Mandating a $60,000+ vehicle as the only option that they can buy is not going to go over well.
2) It just won't happen. Which it won't. Trudeau knows he'll be out of power long before that could ever even come close to a reality, so he can talk about all kinds of pie in the sky goals for 2035, doesn't mean jack.
Franzen - I get near 450km/charge, I am talking absolute worst case, worst weather. Then it's down to 230km. In Manitoba's worst. Which still takes care of 99% of my driving. I used my truck yesterday to go ice fishing. Hadn't driven it for 2 months.
Everyone is concerned about 0-100 because they are used to driving a gas vehicle and waiting to fill the tank, because of the annoyingness of having to stop at a station and fill, and pay etc. You need to change that mindset when debating going to EV, because it's as if every time you leave home you have a full tank. You never go and visit a gas station. Your gas station is your garage. Every morning you leave home you are full. I love the fact that I never have to stop for gas to or from work. There is no such thing as a convenient time to stop for gas for 15 mins.
ChargePoint CEO is assigned as the Fed front man for developing charging stations, ChargePoint can recharge the EV in amount of time to stop at StarBucks for a coffee which they have co-partner from Seattle to Denver for a test market. It will take a few years before one see it as a Get&Go. Funny, the charging stations use fossil fuel to charge the EVs.
Hydrogen Blue has zero pollution on the front and back side, just need the auto industry and fueling stations to embraces it for the consumers.
I do have a 2022 RAV4 Hybrid and this last summer went to Banff from Mn average mpg was 41 on a 4000 mi round trip. Remember going right pass several Tesla on I-15 south of Sweet Grass, Mt. The RAV4 Hybrid is a very nice drive
Again, this isn't necessary true, depending on where you are at. Look at the chart above. Those are the top 8 states for renewable produced electricity. If you charge up in any of those states, the majority of the electricity comes from renewable energy. And that data is a few years old, so I suspect the percentages are even greater now.
Matt
And I’m still waiting for the horse being replaced by the combustion engine being comparable to EV’s replacing the gas engine as per your quote.
Matt
My typical day?
I get up at 4:00AM.... unload truck from day before if needed, load truck tools etc ...for the day, possibly hook up trailer if needed. Leave home at 6:00AM....drive 75 miles to harrisburg area, (or farther at times)....Get at job at 7:30.....work till 5:00 or later sometimes....maybe stop and look at another job on way home, mileage will vary depending on location, and i may or may not be pulling a trailer. I also work in northern PA at times....100 miles one way, naturally i leave earlier, arrive home later....and again, may or may not be pulling a trailer.
Hunting?.....i hunt in northern PA sometimes, i have family up there as well...100 miles one way. And then drive around back in the mts yet. EV may work for some....but i'm not so sure its practical for me.
California is the test case for these Slave EV’s. Less than 1 million of them, 563,000 of them registered in 2021 put a strain on their electrical grid. Now imagine if another 1 or 2 million of the over 14 million gas and diesel vehicles in California, were made to be electric?! Especially when they are making their grid less reliable by getting rid of nuclear and going to more of Grey Ghost’s favorite, intermittent renewables wind and solar! It’s a disaster. Fortunately it’s impossible. Same as Grey Ghost having some common sense.
I will never buy an all electric vehicle
The EV situation here in USA is very different than western EU countries. France for one has many charge stations and so does Germany and Netherlands. In the EU it's the big companies that are paying for the power to recharge the EV's. Most don't have houses in the big cities. So, its the employers who have to put the stations in their industrial space. Which in Germany's case the power is coming from fossil fuels 80-20%, France is much the same with more power coming from Nuclear. In the big picture this EV Power and infrastructure is 80-90% government subsidy again, the was paid for by large private companies in the form of taxes. The Lithium problem has no fix at present time. Fords new battery plants are not going with Lithium Batt's in some factories. Then, the Cobalt issue... Where it is abundant and who your paying to get it. Not a good option either.
If you happen to install a Tesla quick charger in your home, have a fire, very likely your home owners insurance will not cover you. I just spoke to mine on some new property additions and asked that very question. I was told "i will not be covered check your policy renewal".
If you want a combustion gasoline non commercial truck. Get that hunting rig soon. Its not that they will stop building them but rather the price your going to pay to get one. That is if you can get one that is not at least a Hybrid. JJ
Shade mt unless you could somehow eliminate all trailering from your life I don’t think I’d feel comfortable going EV in your situation.
Saxton's Link
Saxton's Link
Shade mt unless you could somehow eliminate all trailering from your life I don’t think I’d feel comfortable going EV in your situation.
what makes me believe this are the days of the rotary dial phone on the kitchen wall, no TV and then having to get up off the chair to change channels on the TV, the radio shack TRS-80 desktop, floppy drives, email, bowsite, people can live in outer space for up to a year and in the not too distant future, people will be on the way to mars.
pretty freak'in remarkable. a good EV is a piece of cake. give it time.
Electric power bills for your usage is billed directly out you pay check there. So, when they bill came for the new EV the power company (gvt) averaged this monthly for the year and automatically took this pro-rated cost directly off the top. Which caused major issues with the households budgets.
So, issue now is when you show at work can you get a power hookup? Do you come out lunch to find one. Do I go back to the bus/train to get home and and charge the EV there overnight and return by public transportation?
Not what you think it would be until you dig into it some what. Still cheaper here to drive combustion auto than an EV in the USA when the cost of the vehicle is figured in. Not by much but more. JJ
I disagree, I believe the big advance will be with cold fusion, hydrogen power. The only way we will replace fossil fuels with all electric for autos will be if we are forced to..
The war in eastern Europe has put more into atmosphere in one year than all of the EU has saved in a decade. They have gone very green and they are still upside down on carbon and will be with a war burning next door. China's industrial practices cancel any or all EV's sales, Air regulations here in USA. JJ
Matt
France has thought of a way. Build many new Nuclear Power plants. Cheap power, comes with baggage however. JJ
a common argument at the time was it was less reliable, costly, difficult to make and maintain, etc. etc.
there's a long way to go and we should all be grateful for that.
no need to lecture on the reduced range, cost of charging, can't tow a backhoe, etc. i get it. improving those is part of the innovation.
The Auto market in Japan did not build 500 million compact cars to figure out that a smaller platform was more economic before they brought them to market in the USA. Where EV's are effective is a small niche. When you wear one out you cant give it away. A Hybrid is now today a much better option to larger demographic of Americans for a number of reasons. JJ
Electric Ice Auger conversations were literally identical 6 years ago when I bought one. Still riding that same auger. On lake Winnipeg that has basically thousands of fisherman every day all you could hear was augers running all day. Nowadays it's like a distant memory when you get to hear a gas auger fire up a mile away and hear that familiar whine. Brings a smile to my face as I imagine the smell outside, but I don't miss the weight, warm-up time, unreliability, bunged up carbs, smoke in the face, and accidentally melted clothes from the exhaust. Batteries in the cold - zero chance it will work! mmmmmhhhhmmmmmm
Matt
For the original question in the post I don’t see the EV’S being great for hunting trips.
Mostly I just see them saying the technology and infrastructure we have today will not support the government mandating EV only by 2035.
They are neat. They aren’t currently practical for most.
I have seen an ENORMOUS increase in them driving around the last few months! People are buying them here for sure.
I just looked on a local Kia dealers website at the EV’s.
The front wheel drive small economy car looking one is $43,000. The AWD one probably similar size to a Subaru forester or Toyota rav 4 is $63000.
I have a 2021 Toyota Tacoma, and a 2004 Toyota Prius for a commuter car. At current fuel prices the Prius is about $35 per week for fuel and my Tacoma is $70.
For my own personal situation, I can’t see any financial benefit to the full EV.
My wife drives a 2020 rav4 hybrid AWD. It gets around 37mpg average. It was $37000 new. I don’t think financially it could make sense for her to go to a comparable EV either.
I’m a huge fan of Toyota hybrids.
We both make pretty decent money, but no way we’re going to spend $140,000-$150,000 to replace her suv, and my truck with an EV.
Matt
On my homestead I have the following gas and oil items,
-truck
-motorcycle
-UTV
-boat with 115 Mercury
- two Chainsaws
- weed eater
-garden tiller
-riding lawn mower
-push mower
-gas grill
-gas smoker
-generator(funny)
-pole shed full of tractors, combines, grain trucks (from my renter)
So, am I supposed to replace all of these with electric operated machines? What will I do with all of these? Where will I get rid of them? How will I charge all of these? Battery disposal, repairs, etc..... How much will this cost me!?!
One more thing, it will be a long time before I get in an electric airplane. Kinda like the covid shot, I want a lot of testing and crashed planes before I attempt that. Comeon people!!
Also, will I lose points for burning firewood!? That will be really fun sitting around the camp electric burner roasting marshmallows. The ambiance will be so nice…..
Do you know what Exxon Mobil is building in Texas? It will be the largest in the world. It powered Apollo. Not difficult to make just dont mix lots of oxygen with it. You can make it at home several ways a very powerful fuel. It will be used and functional very soon.
When we were talking on a hand held bricks DARPA had phones that were the size of a Blackeberry. JJ
Joe Rogan has a podcast with the Author too.
Dang! That will give you whiplash! But actually it says “up to 500 miles”. Translated, your milage WILL vary …lower.
How it affects those of us that love to travel 1000s of miles on hunting trips, pack horses into the mountains, travel home with hundreds of pounds of meat.???? I can’t even guess.
Look up the discussions in the UK. They figured it out that their beautiful countryside completely covered in solar panels falls short of energy demand AND wrecks the environment.
I think a mix of renewables is a good idea…but the way we are going about this is essentially like designing the kitchen table before the house it goes in. .
Matt
They still haven’t got a quote on the unique front end parts.
How would anyone have info on repair cost without knowing what needs to be repaired? That's like asking what is the repair cost of a home? A few bucks for a weather strip or tens of thousands of dollars for a new roof.
Brakes I would guess are more expensive than a vehicle with an ICE since they are larger because of the increased weight of the vehicle. Same is likely true with shocks and struts. Battery replacement when/if needed is huuugely expensive, just like an engine replacement.
Oil changes, air filters, and fuel filters are very inexpensive. :)
"Worried about getting stranded and unable to pull onto the shoulder?" Has anyone ever watched a video where an EV runs out of charge? It essentially limps along at like 3mph for another 20 miles. If you can't get to the shoulder after sitting on 0% with that much extra charge then you're likely not with us enough to get a license. The whole question was theoretical according to this republican. It is something he "foresees" and is worried about. Sheesh, the things limp along for a heck of a lot longer than a gas vehicle when it runs out. They just sputter and die. Toast. End of story. An EV throttles you down to a useless power range where you are forced to ride at walking speed. Essentially, that's your warning to get off the road and to a suitable place to leave it while you wait for a mobile charge.
People just sitting there and conjecturing and making up potential problems without realizing the solutions have been thought of already. That being said - are they better for the "green" world? I don't believe they currently are, no.
The major electrical issue with EVs is putting out a battery fire. It's not clear if the rate of fires is any greater with EVs than with ICEs; they just are a lot harder to extinguish.
To summarize its findings to the original question of: “Anyone planning to use a SUV EV vehicle for hunting in the mountains this year. Would love to hear the cons and pro cons of your experiences.”
The answer is a hard NO, that would be ridiculous.
Other conclusions are that while EV’s can be a fun 2nd vehicle you would never, ever want it as your only vehicle. They are nearly useless in cold climates. They are very environmentally destructive and cause untold human suffering with the mining of the rare earth minerals they need. They seem to have a “factory worker, city slave” agenda attached to them. Did I miss anything?
Oh yeah, I did, the future potential of them is wonderful and unlimited in scope, just don’t get one now….
Mid winter in -25C I also left for 4 days and simply left it parked outside at the airport. Came back, hopped in and drove home. It didn't lose any charge at all while I was away.
Before the winter, I was somewhat worried about it. After having the vehicle through the winter, I would actually say winter EV performance is more of a selling point than a negative. I would MUCH rather drive my EV than an ICE in the winter. Heats up faster, and better traction due to weight. Was a pleasant surprise. And battery loss was not as bad as anticipated.
My dad bought a Ford Lightning. It does not have a heat pump, its heating system is basically a glorified hair dryer. on regular 120V (which is NOT a realistic way to charge an EV) and in the cold weather, the poor heating system combined with cold temps made it impossible to actually charge the vehicle. Left it plugged in for a day and it did not charge at all. It was not able to heat up the battery to where it would accept a charge. I think with a heat pump maybe it would have overcome that problem, but if he had a standard charging station (240V) it would be no issue. It just took a while to come. He now has one.
How about we build them and let the market decide where they make sense? That might make so much sense that it’ll never happen though.
Fossil fuel will always be a major player in energy production. Maybe not in this culture. As the average American drifts farther and farther from reality. But, every where else clean energy will matter, those cultures won’t participate.
To me that paints a picture of why our electoral branch is so bent on doing this to Americans. While dismissing its impacts world wide in other places.
I won’t comply. I’m getting too old to play stupid games. They hurt to bad. In many ways.
30,000 lbs of cobalt ore refined down to 30 lbs of cobalt in one EV battery. Just 8 grams of cobalt in your phone.
There’s a company in Nevada called Redwood Materials. They have a plan to reclaim, recycle, rebuild, an resell, lithium ion batteries.
To ship ev batts from all points USA to one place kinda defeats purpose of carbon offset.?
Jj
The cost to rebuild the hundreds of cells in a EV batt, the hazmat and safety costs, facilities to do it large scale would cost Mega $.
Only one way to get your $ back on rebuilt batt is to make a new one cost three times more!
The world recycles less than 5% of EV batts. Wait a few more years.
Jj
That said, the current Admins solution is total garbage. Give people up to $7k to buy an EV…and throw a little money at renewables.
We will literally run out of electricity at the rate we are going according to the So Cal grid operator…and the midwest grid operator- I posted those links in Climate Change thread. The Obiden admin is clueless and hasn’t done the math…we will be in worse shape down the road unless they start building nuclear power plants.
.
Just make it the deal. If you buy an EV you must offset your increase in power use by installing solar conductors on yer house. Sounds like a green solution of “everything above concept”.
Jj
I say we lock this one down as well!!!
I can't imagine anyone wanting an electric truck after seeing this.
Wow, Longmont to Castle Rock. Guess we know why the Lightning is losing Ford big $.
A truck thatll take you to Wallyword and back home.. useful. Jj
That’s actually a question and the answer is Shawn Magyar usually gets woked and another new Bowsite handle.
Matt
This is a Jobama/Obiden problem we have. We all knew it was going to rear its head. These yield inversions have never lied in my lifetime. NASDAQ has done really really well and as usual a good broad plan does not feel the Obiden dilemma quite so harshly. Great opportunities out there. I am ready to be Bullish in the face of this Bear.
If I were he, I think I would hang on to FORD. Yes, there's a ton of it out there and lots purchased for cents on the dollar. Ford is one of the big 5 who has started listing earnings by their internal market sectors. Blue line, Pro line, EV or " Black Hole line." The EV line will fix itself if the Wood Boogers keep the dream alive. Which, BTW, seems to be the case at least in the near term.
Have no interest in EV's and think they are a fools folly but that does not mean there is not a dollar to me made by those who are pushing them to the folks who support the WOKE Green Fantasy.
JJ
If Ford split itself into five separate companies with their own stocks, I'd invest in 'F-150' stock, and screw the rest.
EV's are a long-term disaster in the making. Lithium mining? Power grid?
The only good thing I see is that a few million car batteries would be a great place to store solar energy. Too bad most EV's get charged *at night*.
People. What can you do? ;-)
Ford's Blue line is fantastic. Some models are so popular that they are opening orders only for one day in March for 2024 orders. One day! They expect 200,000 orders on this day.
So, even though Ford will loose on EV's in near term the stock will still expand. Sign of a solid sheet and Biz model. jj
With a 4000 round trip for elk camp and EV is a long way off for my needs. Even for short trip you losing $ until yer just a step away from a new nattery swap out in trk then you into pure diminishing returns. Jj
as i think about the cell phone and computer, i'm not gonna root against an EV and instead i will wait and see.
every year i cut about 3 acres of weeds with a weed eater. it's too rocky for any type of push or riding mower. two years ago i purchased a commercial grade electric weed eater. i still have my gas but, i use the electric most of the time. it cuts as good, obviously no noise or odor, and the battery last just the right amount before i want to take a break.
YoY EBIT growth = -27.18%
EPS growth long term (3-5 year CAGR) = -8.5%
Levered free cash flow YoY = -93.17%
Operating cash flow growth YoY = -56.59%
Operating cash flow growth forward = -10.78%
Yeah, that Ford business model is a beauty. LOL!
Matt
Read the SoCal and Midwest grid operator reports, then there is this stupidity coming out of the Biden Admin; Now Biden wants to tear down 4 dams that provide 8% of clean hydro power to Wash state. ——-
“There are several major problems with glibly saying, 'We're going to destroy the dams,'" said Todd Myers, the environmental director for the free market think tank Washington Policy Center. "The first is that it is contrary to the science. The Army Corps of Engineers, NOAA Fisheries and others did the most comprehensive scientific assessment of the dams ever a few years ago. And it concluded very clearly that we should keep the dams and that salmon can recover with the dams."
“The Biden administration is going against the most comprehensive scientific assessment done by the federal government itself," Myers continued.
With two fully funded Gvt Retirements your strategy is most likely vastly different than What i use. I would retort making a dime is making a dime.
YIELD 5.28% DIVIDEND $0.65
Jj
Your strategy appears to be different than mine also. Good for you if it works.
There’s always a reason go long. Matter of where you jumped in.
Your assuming your in at all time highs. Just like bowlibs pooing tesla after the split at $109. Was a great deal. Wish i took another 500 shares!
Jj
If you try and fit the EV into the gas vehicle product placement and say it "isn't performing" that's just a completely incorrect analysis. I could compare a gas vehicle to an EV in a ton of other regards and point out how large of a failure it is. Just so happens that a gas vehicle is the default so everyone seems to ignore the warts that they've grown up living with and take as status quo. Not sure how many different ways I can say that to some people that seem to be dedicated to the religion of not believing in EV's. I think they connect it to a "liberal" movement and therefore it must be 100% evil or something.
To take recyclables to the dump 19mi away that use 5 times the energy to recycle that to produce the raw materials to make.
Please expand. Tell us why at this time a good Ford hybrid is not a far greater product than an EV.
If there is a gap vehicle it surely is a gas/ev hybrid. My Ford is awesome for its giving purpose hood product brought to market at right time.
Jj
So, Shawn, what makes your Ford hybrid a better choice than a regular Ford gasser?
Matt
At that time, the Lexus hybrid used EV for anything under 40 mph, which doesn't really help us, as most of our travel is highway. Mainly due to that fact, I didn't think it would benefit us in the long run.
If we lived more suburban, or had much more city stop/go driving, I can see how it could easily make sense.
The battery issue is a big one. I'm sure they'll solve it eventually. A cousin of mine had two Tesla's at one point, and ultimately sold them as he researched his out of pocket costs to replace the batteries when it came time to do so.
My 2015 Tundra get's notoriously poor milage. I love the truck, just not the mileage. My max range on a tank full is around 340 miles, similar to many EVs. Now, in your scenario, people are evacuating in mass and traffic on the major highways is stop and go for hundreds of miles. Every time I stop for a short time, my engine is still running and burning fuel. When the EV next to me is stopped, it's not burning any battery charge at all. So, in that scenario, which vehicle do you think would run out of "juice" first?
Matt
Matt, depending on the length of stop and sit time, why wouldn’t you shut the truck off as well?
Your question may have a different scenario in a cold weather situation. If you have kids and pets that need to stay warm, you’ll need to run the heater. I’m not sure how the EVs provide passenger heat. I’m assuming it depletes the battery, in some capacity…?
When Fords Blue Oval City comes online in 2025 , by that time a few issues will be solved. They will build two million more vehicles (trks) there on top of the 5 million vehicles already built per year. Projects like this cost money. Investment into RV game 3600acres under roof. Code name T3 Trk will change the way Americans look at EV Trucks.
Funny to see Fords sheet here without the data in it on what Ford is doing with the Korean's on blue oval city. BOC will employ 30-35,000 folks.
If you cant see how a hybrid is a much better option now you should just bow out of the conversation.
Jj
Matt
They both live in rentals....no easy charging station...and no solar on their home. My son lives in SF where gas is as much as $6/gal currently- it was $7 six months back. The 13 mpg difference he gets is worth the extra range and savings....plus he has more flexibility over an EV as the chargers in his city are always busy.
Solar on your home doesn't solve everything. If you have to drive the car to work, then you are using power from the grid to charge. Most folks are working during the day so can't charge directly from the panels...[and many systems aren't set up this way anyway]
You can add a battery in your solar system....which means you save E to the Battery...to charge your car battery. 2 batteries. Multiple friends have these systems- between $50k-$70k around here for that. ...then add the cost of the car.
Around here, many times you have to wait to get to a charger. Then there are folks that leave their car to charge and effectively block it from someone else using it. A whole can of worms.
The solution to all of this is cheap reliable power to everywhere....only one possibility for that- nuclear...and the sooner we quit screwing around, the better.
Their Pro line is solid. My new combustion twin phase turbo 6 ,4WD does things I had never dreamed a factory 4x4 could do. Lockers fnt and back, can pivot steer on a two track. No more backing out on a mt trail. Has 4.27 gears, 10spd sealed trannie. No factory 4x4 trk on market can stay with in the steeps or rocks without some serious $ dumped in it. First trk I ever ordered new that was worth 15k more the day I drove it off the lot. Had four people in shop offer 10k over my cost in the dealership when I wrote the check. Has 75 more horse more than my 69 small block K code Hypo Ford 4x4 with lockers fnt and back.
jj
Never mind, I see the Bronco Sasquatch has them. Not a rig I'm interested in. I wish the 150 Raptor had front lockers. I'd consider that truck.
Matt
Matt
I'm thinking about a business in aftermarket lead lined engine compartments and laptop covers.
When everything everyone owns in the US is electronic; chips or EV....it seems to me it would be easy for some terrorist or bad actor to stop us dead in our tracks.
Oh....but....lead lining a whole Tesla will drop the range to 20 miles.....oh never mind- grin.
No, I just decided it really wasn't worth discussing anymore, but I'm bored this morning, so I'll continue to play.
In typical stop and go traffic, the stops aren't long enough to justify stopping and starting a gasser engine every time. Therefore, In your scenario, an EV with the same range as a gasser would make it further down the road before running out of charge.
Your scenario was also a hurricane evacuation. Hurricanes usually don't happen in areas that are cold enough to necessitate heating the vehicle. If anything, AC would probably be more likely to be used. In which case, both types of vehicles would be using AC, which burns fuel and/or charge, so that would be a wash in your scenario. The EV would still win the distance competition.
Having said that, the real question is which vehicle would be easier to keep re-fueled or re-charged in your scenario. Since recharging stations aren't as plentiful as gas stations, the gasser would win in that department. But, if your evacuation route planning included frequent enough re-charging stations, it wouldn't be that much of a disadvantage.
Anyway, it's an interesting scenario to consider. When hurricane Ion hit Florida last October, I'm sure thousands of people evacuated in their EVs and survived just fine.
Matt
With that said I just made my last payment on my Tundra with a V8. With it only having 105,000 miles on it and haven’t put a penny into it for repairs. I don’t see me changing vehicles any time soon.
I read a study that calculated how tall a hill would have to be in order to fully charge an EV by coasting downhill. It concluded the hill would have to be over twice the height of Mt Everest.
It would be great if that technology evolved to the point where it would keep an EV fully charged perpetually, but it's a long ways from there, and I'm not sure it's even physically possible.
I've also been reading up on different battery technologies. Traditional lithium-ion batteries have obvious limitations, and environmental impacts. Solid state batteries is where I think the technology will eventually lead. Several major car manufactures are investing $millions in R&D of solid state batteries.
Matt
I should have clarified. The cold weather situation wasn’t in conjunction with a hurricane. I was eluding to a possible unexpected snow/ice emergency, in perhaps another region of the country. Not strictly hurricane country.
Any way you slice it, in your scenario of being stuck in stop and go traffic for a long period of time, an EV with a full charge is likely to get you further down the road than a gasser with a full tank. Again, assuming they had equal ranges under the same weather conditions.
I will concede, extremely cold weather would probably shift the advantage to a gasser, since EVs lose a lot of range in very cold conditions.
Matt
I should probably bow out of this thread. I have no intention of ever owning an EV. If not for the simple reason of not being able to hear an EV when it’s sitting idle, or moving slowly through a crowded parking lot.