Ricky The Cabel Guy's Link
im confused as to whether the feds had "proper legal documentation."
if they did, what choice did liberty have?
in terms of following the law and innocent until proven guilty, yes i would feel the same way.
Difference between Bud Light and Liberty is that beer customers come from all political leanings. Gun safe customers are predominatly people who own multiple guns and that's not an even mix of left and right. They could take a relatively bigger hit than Bud Light.
The situation also brought to light the political activity of the parent company and CEO that doesn't jive with most customers.
The irony is that "Liberty" is a great name for a company in their market. It makes people think of the Liberty Bell, "Give me liberty or give me death", "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", etc. All those pertain to liberty from an oppressive government.
i totally agree with you...my question referred to being presented a "simple search warrant."
And for anyone who has not yet figured it out, the Liberty-Bud Light association is a joke.
America can survive a few criminals we can't nail without breaking the rules. It wont survive losing our freedoms.
I wonder if they asked the suspect for access?
And yet they rely on that enemy for their very existence and survival like the parasites they are...
Also don't think Apple doesn't comply. I served them with a search warrant for a phone, which they got into. Was great as it helped me prove a homicide.
I am sure the liberty safe lawyers looked over the search warrant, as most warrants to large companies are served to their legal compliance team, which I am sure said you have to provide the code.
That is what should have happened. There is no reason for a company to breach a customer’s security or privacy. This may be overblown to you but my bet is that Liberty will pay for this severely.
Given he was dumb enough to be at the Capital on Jan. 6, I think you know the answer to that question.
When you served Apple was it a warrant including them or just a warrant for the suspect or person related to the case? In this case, Liberty wasn't served.
It was actually very similar to what was mentioned here. Suspect wouldn't give me password to get into phone and the deceased parents didn't know code to get into victims phone. So we served SW on Apple to get into phones to get us the info which they did.
I am curious does anyone have a link to the liberty safe story?
Liberty will no doubt pay severely because many were told by conservative influencers on twitter that they should be upset about this.
If the Feds didn't have a search warrant and Liberty provided the code or if the Feds couldn't have accessed the safe but for Liberty providing the code, I could understand some level of indignation. But given the Feds both provided a valid search warrant and had alternate means to open the safe without the code, I really get the sense that the only reason people are upset about this is because finding dumb stuff to get upset about is the new American past time.
I love your last sentence, pretty much nails it.
Plenty of issues with FBI conduct recently. I would guess many defense lawyers would suggest not cooperating or consenting beyond what you are legally compelled to if you find yourself in their sights.
If LEO has SW saying they can access safe, from my experience most of suspects lawyers would tell them to give them the info. This way it shows cooperation on their part and we are going to get in anyways.
Also from experience if there is nothing to hide they are happy to comply to rub your face in it.
That is usually what happens is you only hear one side of the story.
From my experience on local and federal investigations everyone is usually just right lipped. Espically on the Fed side.
By no way I am saying law enforcement was right or wrong etc God knows I have seen some screw ups. Just not enough facts. Just generally saying if LEO has a subpoena or warrant I have never had a co turn me down for the info requested.
That's why it is best to know your rights.
Aren’t search warrants limited to the party being served? Why is a safe company compelled to hand over their customer’s back door combination? The answer is: they’re not compelled. A subpoena compels. There was no subpoena served on Liberty.
And last question I have: if Liberty didn’t F-up royally here, why did they immediately change their policy?
I don’t care if it’s some J6 jerk or an Antifa rioter. We have protections against unlawful search and seizure in our constitution. Liberty should have stayed out of this one and waited for a subpoena.
And as someone who understands encryption, I don’t believe Apple handed over a customer’s decryption key to Bghunter. My guess is he doesn’t understand the difference between encrypted and unencrypted. They don’t have it the decryption key. If the phone was not encrypted they can be compelled by subpoena to provide access to iCloud. Any lackey can open an unencrypted iPhone. But not one that’s encrypted. Apples and oranges.
Direct from Apple: “ End-to-end encrypted data can be decrypted only on your trusted devices where you're signed in with your Apple ID. No one else can access your end-to-end encrypted data — not even Apple — and this data remains secure even in the case of a data breach in the cloud.May 25, 2023”
Just say no, no, no and no again and no again. They were supposed to be selling security and now they don't,
im just wondering if those calling for a boycott of liberty would feel the same if law enforcement showed up to liberty with a search warrant for hunter or joe bidens safe? had they done the exact same thing would we be applauding them or would we be calling for ruining the company?
its not like liberty safe is a massive company that has a gargantuan legal department that they can call on to fight the federal government. the are a small company that employs less than 50 average americans. liberty safe is NOT anheuser-busch.
If the guy who owns the safe tells the FBI he realizes being at the Capitol for the J6 protest was a mistake and promises to avoid stuff like that in the future, will the Feds back off?
I never said Apple provided the encryption codes. I said I served Apple with a search warrant. I sent them the phones, they unlocked them gathered all the Information on the phones and sent them back on two flash drives that were actually encrypted and bingo,.I had text messages, contact Information etc. It was great proved a homicide.
What everyone seems to forget is you don't need a search warrant or subpoena for everything. There is a little thing called consent. I can ask anyone for consent to search your home , car hell for your DNA, you don't have to comply which is fine and hell I wouldn't comply, but you can always ask.
I would like to know how many people on this thread have ever served or applied to a judge in state or federal Court for a subpoena, search or arrest warrant and actually served one. My guess is very few if any. Judges just don't had them out for asking and federal court is a royal pain in the ass to obtain search and arrest warrants from .
My guess is the defense attorney will file to have whatever was found in the safe,if anything to be inadmissible due to unlawful search, due to the fact liberty was not named in the search warrant and they were unable to consent. Unless when you bought a safe from liberty there is some hidden language somewhere, that no one ever reads that says by buying the safe liberty has access to your code and can provide to someone, unless you opt out.
You hit the nail on the head, law enforcement doesn't need warrants or subpoena for anything, you can always ask for consent. LEO can ask for consent to search your car, home, land hell your DNA. You can saw no and I would, but you would be amazed how many people consent.
i happen to think it is very relevant...but you are welcome to disagree. pretty sure we can still do that.
in my opinion...whats also relevant...is the fact that the two situations are completely different.
liberty was complying with a search warrant...i assume in good faith. anheuser-busch...or at least the woman whos idea it was to use dylan mulvaney...was knowingly attempting to use it as a marketing strategy.
unlike the bud light situation...im assuming libertys compliance with a search warrant was an honest mistake...and they immediately took action to make sure it didnt happen again. good on them.
bud light did what they did...on purpose...as an attempt to increase sales...and have yet to even admit it might have been an error.
like pat said...apples and oranges.
Just one more area where we can spend our money with a company better aligned with the correct ideals or at least not working against them.
It wasn’t a mistake, it was done in conformance with their protocol (which as you mentioned has now been changed to require a subpoena).
What I find interesting is that has been Liberty’s long-standing process, but it never received public attention until it impacted a Jan. 6’er. Why some conservatives deify those knuckleheads is beyond me.
Here lies the problem with the DOJ in the last few years. There's a difference depending on what side of the political spectrum you're on. Some here won't admit it but if they don't like what you "say" or what you are "vocal" about, you are the enemy. You'd have to be deaf dumb and blind not to see what's going on concerning these sort of issues.
Leftist n right wingers better start standing up for everybody's constitutional rights, otherwise there won't be anyone left to stand up for.
i probably worded that poorly...let me explain what i meant by "mistake."
youre right...liberty knowingly released the code. that action was in accordance with to their protocol at the time. in my opinion...that wasnt the mistake.
the "mistake" i was referring to wasnt releasing the code according to their protocol...the protocol itself was the "mistake"...and they realized it and subsequently changed it.
Ricky The Cabel Guy's Link
'Liberty Safe said in a statement posted to X, the former Twitter: “Our company protocol is to provide access codes to law enforcement if a warrant grants them access to a property. After receiving the request, we received proof of the valid warrant, and only then did we provide them with an access code. Liberty Safe had no knowledge of any of the details surrounding the investigation at the time.”
Several people have spoken out against Liberty Safe, some claiming they’re planning to return their gun safes.
Charlie Kirk, CEO of Turning Point USA, posted on social media platform X that “Liberty Safe is an enemy to gun owners.” He urged his followers to “boycott, ridicule, and ruin their company.”
On the other hand, billionaire tech entrepreneur Elon Musk posted, “Liberty Safe had no choice here and are not to blame.”
Tracy Walder, who worked with the CIA and FBI, sided with Musk. She said Liberty Safe “absolutely did the right thing.”
“If the FBI serve you a warrant, you don’t have a choice but to comply with it. I actually have a Liberty Safe of my own. I have no plans to be getting rid of it,” Walder said during an appearance Thursday night on “The Hill on NewsNation.”
In response to recent criticism, Liberty Safe issued another statement allowing customers to have their “access codes expunged.”
“This change allows customers to take control of how their information is stored and protected. We understand that many customers are willing to willing to assume the responsibility of safeguarding their own combination. While those who opt out of our data storage process will have limited recourse in case of a lost combination, we respect their choice and are here to support them in the way that’s best for them,” the statement said.'
it appears that liberty had no idea what the investigation was in reference to so i doubt very much there was any specific animus against any jan 6 protestors.
both my gun safe and my home safe have mechanical locks.
"Retaining rights is more important than convicting a criminal who we might get if we trample those rights."
Spot. On. Case in point. Look at what the New Mexico governor did, and nary a word from the Bowsite resident bootlickers. The rights of the law abiding have been abrogatted by the criminals.
What should be alarming isn’t the outrage of just finding out liberty did this. The outrage should be directed that they did it. No matter it not stopping the safe from being opened.
There’s a certain point when principle should win out. Unless principles aren’t possessed. It’s pretty easy to tell who has them and who doesn’t.
Still a bunch of childish nonsense.
Either that or a can full of garbage......pretty obvious which one is present here.
So at least he was 1/2 right. He either didn't understand that no warrant was served to Liberty, or he's just wrong. X (Twitter) knows a thing or two about being served for info so I'm guessing he posted without the facts.
dang dude...thats a lot of beers
Andes Quilmes Alpha Pale Ale Beez Neez Big Helga Bohemian Pilsner Carlton Cascade Crown Lager Dogbolter Fat Yak Foster’s Great Northern Brewing Co Helga Melbourne Bitter Mercury NT Drought Pure blonde Redback Reschs Sheaf Stout Victoria Bitter Belle-Vue Hoegaarden Hougaerdse Das Julius Jupiler Leffe Piedboeuf Safir Stella Artois Vieux Temps Bock Ducal Huari Paceña Botswana St. Louis Brahma Bohemia Caracu Liber Original Skol Alexander Keith’s Boomerang Blue Star Kokanee Labatt Lakeport Oland Export Ale Schooner Lager Steeler Wee Willy Dorada Tropical Channel Islands Breda Baisha Double Deer GuoGuang Harbin Jinlin Jinlongquan KK Red Shiliang Santai Sedrin Snow Yali Zizhulin Zhujiang Aguila Club Colombia Costeña Pilsen Poker Birell Frisco Gambrinus Pilsner Radegast Velkopopovický Club Premium Lager Conquer Dorada Pilsener Barena Golden Light Pilsener Regia Extra Suprema Boomerang La Becasse Beck’s Diebels Dimix Gilde Ratskeller Haake-Beck Hasseröder Löwenbräu Spaten St. Pauli Girl Club Premium Lager Club Shandy Stone Lager Barena Imperial Port Royal SalvaVida Arany Ászok Dreher 24 Kobányai Sör Haywards Indus Pride Knock Out Royal Challenge Premium Lager Peroni Raffo Wührer Lesotho Maluti Diekirch Mousel Corona Modelo Especial 2M Impala Laurentina Manica De Klok Dommelsch Dutch Gold Grolsch Hertog Jan Oranjeboom Atlas Balboa Arequipeña Cristal Cusqueña Pilsen Callao San Juan D?bowe Mocne Gingers Ksi???ce Lech Redd’s Tyskie Wojak Jasny Pelny Bergenbier Ciucas Stejar Timisoreana Ursus Premium BagBier Klinskoye Permskoye Gubernskoye Rifey Sibirskaya Korona Tinkov Tolstiak Slovakia Šariš Smädný Topvar Carling Black Label Castle Flying Fish Hansa White Bull Cafri Cass Fresh OB Sibebe Absolut Cut Balimi Extra Lager Kilimanjaro Premium Lager Ndovu Special Malt Safari Chairman’s Extra Strong Beer Club Pilsener Eagle Nile Chernihivske 4ezz Rohan Taller Yantar Bass Boddingtons 10 Barrel Brewing Co Blue Moon Blue Point Brewing Company Bud Budweiser Busch Coors Elysian Brewing Company Goose Island Brewery Hamm’s Henry Hop Hound Amber Wheat Icehouse Keystone Ice Landshark Leinenkugel Michelob Mickey’s Malt Liquor Miller Milwaukee’s Natural Ice Natural Light Oculto Olde English 800 Malt Liquor Red Bridge Rock Light Rolling Rock Shock Top Belgian White Wild Pilsen Zorok Zambia Chibuku Mosi Premium Lager Rhino Lager Bohlinger’s Lager Lion Lager
add to that liberty safes...disney...nike...phizer...moderna...netflix...black rock...bank of america...visa...paypal...warner brothers...the nfl...the nba...womens soccer...target...walmart... and all the other companies us conservatives are supposed to boycott...and the only people youd have left to hunt with are maybe the flintstones. lol
I use paypal, drink Bud and shop at walmart too. Vast are my sins ;-)
Ricky The Cabel Guy's Link
you have no idea. lol
not only does she listen to adele...she shops and bed bath and beyond...orders from amazon...loves oreos...and uses a yeti cup.
Yes, but the important thing, does she visit Dicks and frequents BJ's? :)
How about looking at it for what it is versus blaming the messenger. That’s what an intelligent human being would do. I know you fit in the group that fancies himself as much. However, others tend to not agree as much.
We don't even know if he was given the option of providing the code. He wasn't at the search. If he chose "no" then cut it open or get a judge to approve an order for Liberty.
no...she knows shedds from shinola.
Because the cowards in the C suite bend to pressure of one hundredth of one percent of the population. Instead of their customers. I think this tends to come from their own HR departments Which attract ultra liberal minded people. They tend to have 6 psychology degrees and begrudge working stiffs for making more money than they do. One of many defects they have.
Also everyone in the company is terrified of the Nancy’s and Karen’s in HR. So they wield power and use it to ruin people’s lives.
Corporations will eventually learn that appeasing this radical minority will cost them political allies and customers.
same is true for legal and compliance departments.
The scary thing about this is it’s a “not me” ideology leading the so what crowd. And, what’s even more alarming is the notion that if you didn’t have anything to hide, it should be no big deal if the fbi wants to get into your personal belongings and was able to do without going through the proper channels. That’s the scariest thing of all this. That Americans see it as no biggie.
I hear follow the constitution until someone else’s rights are getting trampled upon. Then it’s ok to just let government do as they wish. But, it’s trump related so it’ll be alright.
Yet, everyone of the same people constantly bombarding threads with their contempt for Trump, argue he’s the threat to our precious republic. What a bunch of crap.
i dont think anyone is really saying "so what."
liberty made a mistake...owned up to it...and set about changing their protocol going forward. those things used to be what conservatives espoused.
outrage is currency now...and its only a matter of time before cancel culture comes calling. guys like charlie kirk have made their living speaking out against it...and now they are engaging in it...all for more clicks on twitter.
It's basically impossible to live a normal life and not buy from companies that support things you don't like but when it does come to light, and there's plenty of easy alternatives, it would be silly to continue to spend money with them.