Bowsite.com

"THE EMPLOYMENT S ITUATION — J ANUARY 2024 Total nonfarm payroll employment rose by 353,000 in January, and the unemployment rate remained at 3.7 percent, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. Job gains occurred in professional and business services, health care, retail trade, and social assistance. Employment declined in the mining, quarrying, and oil and gas extraction industry."

Bidenomics is simple they praying for 3 rate cuts during an election year. This has always worked. Fed balance sheet is not so simple. The COVID QE of 5 trillion has to reconciled and that cash is gone. No matter how you cut it Powell waited to long to start raising rates and that has now caused steady long term inflation, shrink-flation and huge unsecured debt on the average citizen. Buy now pay later is a huge problem. Many Regional Banks are in trouble. Powell is not going to make the mistake to drop rates to soon even though Joe is blowing up his phone everyday.

30% increases in food is nailing the 99% of America hard with 60% or more of the population without $1000 in liquid funds after bills. Joe has no chance without at least three rates cuts and its March.

Bidenomics is DOA on the Stump which leaves the left with J6 and that does not feed a family of four.

Unfortunately it also leaves the left with abortion, which they will pound into the brains of young girls and women ad nausea.

Who would have ever thought that being in favor of killing more unborn babies would get a politician elected in this country? Shameful!!

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. (Disraeli)

Doesn't much matter to a guy with a mortgage, a car payment, 3 kids, and he just lost his job.

I've heard that a recession is when your neighbor loses his job, and a depression is when you lose YOUR job.....

It should. Much better to lose a job in a strong job market than in a weak one.

This is a huge amount of overspending...and creating a lot of liquidity which is why the stock market is doing well and correspondingly inflation is still pervasive.

What is it going to take for the Biden Admin along with the House to realize they are spending us into oblivion?

Shane

Vehicle fuel, heating fuel, electric bills. Out of the Inflation numbers.

Someone making $15 an hr driving 20 miles to work and feeding 2-3 kids most likely doesn’t feel the economy is good.

They play the same game with those numbers also.

Go into a drug store in any sanctuary city. If they haven’t closed the doors. Everything behind glass. Lock and key. Toothpaste has to be locked up.

The incompetent NY Governor after denying crime for the last two years. Now puts 1000 National guard troops in the subways. After a U.S. marine goes to jail for defending others in the cesspool.

Yep crime is back 1940s level. Don’t believe your lying eyes. Believe phony charts and graphs

Literally no one on here said that.

I personally think the jobs numbers are skewed. I know several people that have taken on a second job to make ends meet. I've also noticed and talked to several folks that retired but have to go back to work to make ends meet

Maybe they should just stop collecting and reporting job numbers and have headlines like “Coop knows two guys that had to take a second job and one guy who had to come out of retirement to work.”

The stat for US citizens DROPPED. That right, US citizens wanting full time jobs dropped slightly. This screen shot is from the SL Fed- linked with the full p[age showing foreign born jobs up along with this...our own gov statisticians show how Biden is lying to us.

Seriously, can we all grow an IQ here....

You’re right Coop, I don’t know you. But I know what you said, and it’s emblematic of a lot of people around here. It’s a riff on the refrain of “I don’t believe the numbers because I know a guy.” I don’t know if it comes from a lack of trust or just a misunderstanding of what the numbers reflect (or some combination of each), but it’s prevalent on this site. And it’s problematic IMO.

Regarding the 70 year old woman having to continue to work, I’ll quote bluedog from earlier in the thread “Personal responsibility.... the lost concept.. always somebody else's fault.” That goes for retirement planning as well.

I can provide links, if anyone is interested in learning rather than spewing political rhetoric.

Matt

If 'collect Social Security' is your *entire* financial 'plan' for retirement, you're screwed.

I would love to see a good random sampling of the retirement plans of participants here. Then compare that to the general population. How many have a government pension, how many have a corporate or a union pension? How many have an IRA or 401(k)? How many did or did not take advantage of employer contribution matching? (If it was offered.) etc.etc.

I hear a few people joke that their retirement plan is to have a massive heart attack when they turn 65. The sad part is, that's probably the only way they won't be living under a bridge.

I don't just look at separate issues like economy etc... I look at the whole BIG picture. There is something to be said about a "sound mind"......Once you lose the ability to make rational, sound and yes moral decisions, everything goes south. The whole concept of as long as i got money everything is fine, doesn't pan out....just don't work that way....the money might be there, but so are A LOT! of other problems....This world is rapidly self destructing, and people like Biden are right there to lead the way. Not just economically, but in many ways.

Artificial intelligence, Mind control, bio warfare, cyber warfare.....moral decline.....economy....etc..etc...etc. We have become so smart....................yet we are so dumb.

Then, when those jobs rebound, he takes credit for job creation. Typical liberals. destroy something then brag that they had to fix it.

Just as they are purposely doing at the border and crime, create chaos, then say they are the only ones that can fix it just give us more money and power. Look what citizens are willing to do in New York live under a police state for safety, so we are trading our freedom for safety now.

A Marxist dream. create chaos, then create the solution that gives you more authority

Matt"

I'd like to see that data Matt. I haven't looked up comparisons but it sure seems like food and gas is more expensive than it was 5yrs ago.

That's abysmal. Certainly not optimal news for Biden or the Biden administration to get just before the State of the Union. Oh no, where is the Biden and Kamala going to get all the money they need to fund the lifestyles of all the illegal immigrants they just welcomed through the door of the southern border? Taxes on the retired folks most likely.

I retired last year after over 4 decades of working in the core sciences, environmental safety and worker health. In my home state right now the average timeline for an environmental approval in best case is about 500 days. Some push in the current legislature to get it to 50 days or at least within 1 construction season. We had a great warm winter in the North and tons of work was delayed by the process. Resulting in lay-offs...Missed opportunities all around. Even more nuts is the trifecta Dems calling for licensing and registration for any painters. College kids ( or maybe new immigrants?) working for a contractor and even homeowners if you buy more than a certain volume of paint. Imagine Sherman Williams and Home Depot reporting you to the govt. since you wanted to save money and hire college kids or paint your house yourself. Government overreach and piss poor policies. No wonder that Senator from Alabama sounded so pissed off last night.

Of course they are. In a healthy economy prices will always inflate. That's economics 101.

But that wasn't my point. Earlier, someone was claiming the inflation numbers were a hoax because they don't include food and energy. I pointed out that there are several measures of inflation, including numbers that do include food and energy.

The most recent year over year numbers show that inflation rose 3.9%, excluding food and energy. During that period food rose 2.6% and energy decreased 4.6%. If you include food and energy, inflation rose 3.1% from the same period last year.

So, claiming the inflation numbers are manipulated lower because they don't include food and energy is false and ignores data that is readily available to anyone.

The kicker is....the good January front line number was just reconciled and revised down by 35%. Unemployed is up....and household reports don't jibe with the Front line stats Biden shouts from the tree tops.

It begs the question- what's the truth?

Is the Biden admin tweaking the numbers for political reasons then the agency in charge "Adjusts" it down on every single report since Biden took office.

Worth noting is the big rise in Government jobs...and the part time jobs number at "Drinking establishments" which I would assume are Barristas and Bartenders- grin

My link has a really good breakdown of where the jobs are and who is getting them. The link has other economic reports that somewhat conflict with the top line report. Again, is this Admin lying to us to inflate the claims of Bidenomics?

On the whole, it's fairly positive for everyone except US citizens seeking a full time job.

Then continues lying about crime being down

When we all know they are not charging anybody in the major cities

It's not some political ploy. It's how the system has worked for decades.

The more you know.....

Part time job and Illegals named “foreign nationals” in the fed reports account for the vast majority of new jobs Biden is shouting about.(see link) in fact, full time jobs for US citizen's hasn’t budged since 2018. Hmmm

The Household survey (and ADP payroll) - which counts those actually employed, contradicts the Biden claims month after month showing a negative number.

Then there is actual unemployed going up …. Which would back the Household and ADP reports.

Then- did we really need 52,000 more gov jobs in Feb and about the same in Jan?

Yep, the more you know- all broken down in the link above, “ Inside The Most Ridiculous Jobs Report In Recent History: Record 1.2 Million Immigrant Jobs Added In One Month” on Zero Hedge.com

The facts and charts are there on my links- from various sources and not just the BLS

Based on the most recent estimate I could find (2021), the Easton are is that 22% of foreign-born workers in the U.S. were illegal. That would make 78% U.S. citizens.

Lack of rate cuts???? No my friend that's not why. Your listening to Wall ST investors not looking at the sheets.

In review, ZeroHedge publishes pro-right wing/Trump articles such as Pat Buchanan: “Trump Calls Off Cold War II.” As well as fake news stories regarding liberals: Anti-Trump Protesters Bused Into Austin, Chicago.

Editorial content is written under the pseudonym Tyler Durden and usually focuses on conspiracies related to economic collapse. Zero Hedge sources from factually mixed think tanks such as The Mises Institute, which promotes Austrian (Anarcho-Capitalism) economics. Finally, during the Coronavirus pandemic, they have frequently promoted false and misleading information, as evidenced by failed fact checks below."

This is your brain on conspiracy theories.

And everyone in the room is now dumber for having heard the word said out loud

I think that most of us who aren't agreeing that "the economy is doing great" statements are referring to the total increase since biden took office. Milk in 2020 was $3.32 per gallon. Milk today is $4.36 per gallon. That's a 31% increase in a very short time. I don't want to be told that the food and fuel I HAVE to buy that has gone up over 30% is great economics because it's slowed to only going up 3% last year. I want it to go back down to 4yr ago numbers THEN resume normal inflation. When I'm told that I should be happy for the 31% increase, + 3% inflation I feel the same as I did being told that the BLM protests were peaceful, that Rittenhouse is a white supremist, and that a .223 goes 5x faster out of a AR than it does other platforms.

Don’t hold your breath. Maryland just passed a bill to allow “illegals” to buy healthcare. Of course, they’ll be buying it with OUR taxpayer money. But don’t worry, even though China Joe told us this was his plan from the beginning, the bowlibs will assure us that it’s just another harmless conspiracy theory from the folks that worship trump.

So yes, democracy is thriving!…thanks to your tax dollars at work!

That said, I try to look at the bigger picture. The median US household net worth from 2019 to 2022 (most recent reported period) grew 37%. That far outpaced inflation. I know things like home appreciation and IRA gains don't make paying for groceries any easier, but net worth is a measure of a person's financial health. In that sense, I suspect we both are better off than 4 years ago.

That's certainly not an endorsement for Biden, I think he's been the most inept president of my lifetime. It is, however, an endorsement for the strength and resiliency of the US economy, which I think the POTUS has far less to do with than most people think.

I love it when guys are dead wrong…and they blame the source- essentially in denial- to keep justifying their political beliefs. Thats just weak minded justification.

We will never move forward as a country with such stubborn polarized thinking.

That Zero Hedge article derived the info directly from the SL Fed, the ADP report and other legit sources. The only “Jobs” Biden created was pumping the gov payrolls which will cost us billions for a long time. Part time jobs and jobs t9 “ foreign” illegals are up skewing the jobs numbers. US citizens are actually losing jobs. I get it, thats a tough pill to swallow if you are a died in the wool Democrat to realize their policy is hurting our country on many fronts.

When one realizes that everything this current admin does is to buy votes- it becomes clear; more gov jobs, giving money for student loans, bringing in a massive amount of illegal immigrants, money to all of the special interest groups.

Its obvious to anyone with critical thinking skills- the Dem party and much of the Rep party has been hijacked by big money special interests that are not in the best interests of the avg American.

Simple question; Does anyone really believe Biden is calling the shots?

Now we know; Voting in the weakest senile puppet in the history of the world was a trick played on the Dem voter base contrived by the DNC. The real question is, how much longer will those voters allow themselves to be fooled?

.

If that's directed towards me, please tell me what I've been "dead wrong" about on this thread. In the meantime, I'll start with something you were dead wrong about.

"Is the Biden admin tweaking the numbers for political reasons then the agency in charge "Adjusts" it down on every single report since Biden took office."

That is dead wrong, and easily verified. The BLS numbers have not been revised down "every single report since Biden took office". But you have to look at reliable sources to find the information, not alt-right clown show sites.

There are causes and affects to everything that happens with the economy. The people who complain about the current economy need to think about what the alternative is.

The FRS system is a separate entity and it has performed poorly since 2020. They printed money in total of 5 + Trillion and pissed it a way. In free market capital system there should have losses. Now we have to deal with Powell's poor decision's. In most cases they did not save the average taxpayer, they saved The Big Guys.

I am I better off since Jan 2020 ? You bet but I bet against the table. Had nothing to do with what Powell did for sure. If I had took some profits a week ago the gross would have been 200K more than its worth today. Free market at work. You win some you loose some. Does this mean I buy beef at stupid prices? Like to pay for milk more than I do for Diesel? Hell, no.

Will Powell try to sneak in a rate cut or two before Nov 5th? You bet. Will it help at kitchen tables ? Heck no and wont ease the issue of flooding the country with the QE in those Covid stimulus'. If Joe could he dump two Trillion more in by Nov.

When inflation gets to high people tighten up, businesses tighten up, money flow tightens. Bills are coming due, I'm gonna get stuck and so are all of you taxpayers for this nonsense.

And how many "average tax payers" are "liquid heavy"?

It's so cute watching Shawn Magyar brag about his brilliant investments while acting concerned about the "average taxpayer". He must have taken lessons from Pelosi.

Elon Musk exposes the Democrats dirty tricks; _____ Tesla CEO and X owner Elon Musk has revealed how the Democratic Party uses illegal immigration to rig the electoral system in its favor.

Posting on his X platform, Musk responded to the news that Democrats in the Senate had unaninamously voted down an amendment to stop illegal aliens from being counted in apportionment for congressional districts and the Electoral College.

He explained:

Most Americans do not know that the US census currently counts, for purposes of voting power, all people in a district, regardless of citizenship!

Senate Democrats just voted unanimously to defeat an amendment that would have stopped counting illegals for congressional seat apportionment and electoral college (presidential) votes. Since illegals are mostly in Democrat states, both the House and the Presidential vote are shifted ~5% to the left, which is enough to change the entire balance of power!

That doesn’t mean there isn’t some truth to what he said. It shouldn’t matter who points it out, it should matter if it’s in fact true.

Here's the page screen shot from the SL FED itself...rant away but those are the facts.

Here's the page screen shot from the SL FED itself...rant away but those are the facts.

Edit, for some reason the Screen shot is not loading, link to FRED on their searchable data base is; https://fred.stlouisfed.org/release/tables?rid=50&eid=2698

I suppose it's tough medicine to actually interpret the data, instead of letting ZeroHedge do your thinking.

Have you ever considered the fact that the BLS considers anything under 35 hours per week part time employment? The national average is 34.3 hours/week. So, is it any surprise that the majority of job growth has been part time?

Just because you don’t like the guy, doesn’t change a fact to a lie, or viva-versa. Similar to trump. Just because you hate him, it doesn’t make him any more or less guilty of the crime he did or did not commit.

Its lame to suggest that PT time job growth is good for the country. These menial jobs- Target, Costco and such do cap the hours to limit full time benefits. So the fact Biden is creating more of those and not the full time jobs with benefits someone needs to raise a family is good news to you?

Benefits and HC has gone way up since Obama- and its even worse under Bidenomics- thats a fact. The Democrat party is responsible for these unintended consequences of their policy decisions. Instead of a balanced approach, they go all in on Climate change and special interests…and have cost the avg American dearly.

.

First, I never said it was a "good news". Second, I don't credit Biden for creating jobs. I credit the US economy. Third, I don't let ZeroHedge do my thinking for me, like you do. Now, for a few actual facts. Here's a breakdown of the sectors with the largest job growth in February.

Health Care - 67,000 jobs

Government - 52,000 jobs

Food and Drink Places - 42,000 jobs

Social Assistance - 24,000 jobs

Construction - 23,000 jobs

Transportation and Warehousing - 20,000 jobs

Retail Trade - 19,000 Jobs.

Those 7 sectors represent 90% of the estimated job growth. I wouldn't exactly call that list all "menial" jobs. I'm also reading, since covid, an increasing number of workers are choosing to work part time, not because they can't find a full time job. I don't consider that a healthy trend, but it could partially explain why part time job growth is higher.

Clearly sated the plan is for a longer run of inflation and dumping their US Securities at record levels will continue to keep the economy tight. That's the plan. Rate cuts will do next to nothing for kitchen tables but rather help the 1%ers and the Street greatly.

Yer ETF's are not going magically jump with this monetary policy by the Fed. Goal as stated of 2% inflation is a pipe dream yet they quote over and over. Because my nephew had to get two extra jobs and it makes those numbers inflate again means little.

You don’t seem to understand the chronology at play here or the point I made. The DOT printing dollars for COVID stimulus accelerated inflation and the Fed increased rates to decrease the rate of inflation by slowing economic growth. The Fed isn’t going to decrease rates until they have persistent data indicating inflation has been brought down to near target levels. Lower than expected unemployment will extend out the timeline for Fed lowering rates.

“Oh the indignation Matt- just look at the facts from our own Gov agencies, ADP and other sources.”

Like ~78% of “foreign born” U.S. residents aren’t illegal aliens and just under 50% of “foreign born” are U.S. citizens?

But you are correct that, in my estimation, we will never move forward as a country with stubborn polarized thinking.

Well, when you have the current Government moving forward with convicted felons and illegals to have full voting abilities what do you think would happen? The other 200 million US born citizens just go merrily along with this. Of course your going to have polarization and probably a helluva lot more if it continues and it will not be pretty.

Umm...its titled "Statement on Longer-run goals and monetary Policy strategy" But what difference does that make, Shawn, it's still old news.

We get another CPI report tomorrow, so we'll see how the inflation situation is doing. I sure don't see people cutting back on spending. The Colorado ski industry is booming. Our once sleepy little mountain town in Winter Park is turning into another Vail. It's great for our condo's property value, but I sure enjoyed it more 20 years ago.

How is that surprising? Inflation is literally one of the goals of the Fed.

Well, when you have the current Government moving forward with convicted felons and illegals to have full voting abilities what do you think would happen?

No they aren't.

Unfortunately, when there isn't a level playing field tariffs are required. Do you really think China is an honest free trade partner? Is it fair that Europe charges 10% tariffs on our autos but we charge 2.5%?

That's not how tariffs work. More tariffs do not bring freer trade, regardless if they are retaliatory. This is a classic situation of "two wrongs don't make a right." It has nothing to do with "fair."

One thing that can be done is quit adding jobs in government and change policy and set conditions so the private sector can develop and create jobs

No they aren't.”

I saw the same article.

I also saw one that said the White House quelled trumps request for national guard on J6.

Saw one today about Liticia James wanting to punish firefighters for booing her and cheering trump?!?!

I finally discovered why liberals are referred to as sheep. It’s the only way they can continue to create enough wool to pull over our eyes.

Yep I lived in CO in early 80's all the archery elk hunting back then I dont think I ever saw another archer in the Mt's on western slope. Knew then that the place would be a magnet for North Easterners and CA residents and illegals.

The first Bill Joebama initiated was to normalize the invasion, US Citizenship Act. This is no secret what the Dem's planais and was. They want more seats in congress and to count illegals in the census in Blue states.

When an admin tells us Climate is our biggest issue and they are attempting to spend trillions to supposedly counter its effects.

When an admin is buying votes; pandering to special interests, paying off bad decision student loans, bringing in millions of illegals, handing them money in an attempt to, “ Vote Democrat”

Political prosecutions- unequal justice

Pander to criminals, vilify and defund LE agencies ——-

The big picture of Bidenomics is bad for our country and its shocking to me some argue its a good thing.

I had no illusions that Winter Park would remain a sleepy mountain town. That's why we invested there. It was nice when it was a relatively unknown hang out for locals, though. It's just too beautiful to stay that way I reckon. It's insane what we could rent our condo for, if we chose to.

But that's kinda my point. I just don't see this horrible economy some of you do. What I see is record numbers of people paying over $200/day to slide down a mountain, and the vast majority of them are non-resident travelers. The price of milk or beef doesn't seem to be bothering them too much.

Everyone gets a chance to get it done several times in life to get er done. Covid was one of those. Any fool could have made serious $ in the markets tumble. Risk is inherent in the game. You could have threw a spitball on the wall and made out BIG. Doesn't change the fact the Joebama's three terms in the WH has really hurt regular folks every week at the store and will continue to do so. Folks need to pull their heads out of their 4th point of contact and realize what those 12yrs have done. Clearly, many are coming to their senses now.

How were regular folks hurt at the store during the period Obama was President when inflation averaged well under 2%? Regardless, you all give Presidents waaaaaaaay too much credit for the economy.

I read that article too. Only I read the whole article, not just the headline. What it said was the number of hardship withdrawals was the highest level since they've been tracking the data, a mere 5 quarters. And the number represented just 0.59% of all the banks 401K participants. That's less than 1%, if you aren't good with numbers.

It also said this:

"The good news is that despite the high cost of living, many Americans are still socking away money in their retirement accounts.

Bank of America found 401(k) contribution rates were steady during the third quarter at 6.5%.

Even better, Bank of America found that more than one in five (21.3%) of Gen Z and 10.4% of Millennials are ramping up their contribution rates. Just under 3% of those age groups are cutting back on their retirement savings."

Credit card debt, the amount owed by all Americans on their credit cards, rose to a record $1.13 trillion at the end of last year, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York reported Tuesday.

Card balances increased by about $50 billion, or 4.6%, in the fourth quarter of 2023.

Credit card delinquencies, the amount of time in which cardholders fall behind in making payments, also increased. The percentage of card delinquencies 90 days or more rose to 6.4% from 4% in the fourth quarter of 2022.

Card debt contributed to the rise in total household debt, the amount owed by all members of a household, which rose to $17.5 trillion, an increase of $212 billion in the same period.

You mean here's what years of easy money, pandemic driven stimulus, post-pandemic recovery, and fed policy have done to the average person. I don't even know what "Bidenomics" are, and most of what comes out of his mouth is nonsense, but the reality is that he really hasn't done much of anything. I'd argue the single biggest unilateral act a President has taken to add to prices in the recent past was Trump's tariffs. Where's the bitching about those?

Now , add to that baked in inflation another 800 dollars a month to afford a house and it’s no wonder families budgets are stretched.

That's only really relevant to people with adjustable rate mortgages or who are looking to purchase a house.

While it may have slowed the RATE of inflation it has in no way reduced inflation

It astounds me how many people fail to grasp the most basic of definitions of economic terms. Inflation - which is the the rate at which prices rise- has indeed reduced.

If what you're saying is that prices have not come down, that's true. But that's not what inflation is. If what you're saying is wages have not kept up with inflation, that's also true over the last few years. But inflation has indeed reduced from peak levels.

Inflation does not equal prices.

On the other hand, cutting 'pandemic' spending 'cold turkey' would have had its own adverse 'shock' effects. Problem is always how to ramp spending down with minimum negative impact.

The president sets the tone of the country. Just as Regan lifted us by providing opportunity and calling out Americans to be responsible for their own success, I see Biden doing the opposite.

Every policy from the Biden admin is saying to people, "You aren't responsible, vote for us and we will give you free stuff"

Stay home we will pay you was a big one.

Come here from the prison in Venezuela and we will pay you

LGBTQ- oh, you deserve money...and Military Commanders in dresses worried more about pronouns than protecting our country

That Film degree won't get you a $100k a year job- no worries, we will pay off your student loan- no matter that others have worked hard to pay for their loans or their kids education

Bidenomics in a nutshell is; wealth redistribution, no accountability and buying votes.

sure, I live in an affluent area- I don't have to live down in Oakland where my niece just got her car stolen from Kaiser hospital...and Kaiser tells their employees its best not to leave the building for lunch

I can use my wits to make and keep my money...and scheme my way around the pitfalls. I don't worry about my kids so much either- they get it.

It's the folks that work for me is who I worry about. They can't afford to live in affluent areas. They have to deal with high food , gas and everything else. Their kids have to deal with the upheaval and violence in schools.

We are a society that allows bad behavior. "Oh, you committed 90 crimes in the last 6 months....there are too many people in prison [how many times have I heard that line from a liberal progressive?] you can go free"

We won't have a legit gov until the folks that have always voted Democrat because their parents voted Democrat realize- oops, it's not the party of JFK anymore....and we won't have a legit gov until we get term limits...and a smarter voter base.

It's then when we will get reasonable candidates- fiscally conservative Managers that will set us straight and not the polarizing candidates we have now.

I think a lot of Reps feel the system is so broken that it will take a hard core Trump type to set some of the Federal agency idiocy on its ear.

It’s seriously scary how people rationalize personal choices.

I had 5 bags total of vegetables, two rolls of breakfast sausage, and a gallon of milk.

Inflation maybe dropping but, prices aren’t. We can play semantics if you want. But, prices are high and they aren’t going down. And, opportunity for the young family is hard to come by.

If that doesn’t bother you then that’s ok. But, leaving something better once you’re gone should be the goal. And, the return on your portfolio isn’t a mark to measure that success by.

We won't have a legit gov until the folks that have always voted Republican because their parents voted Republican realize- oops, it's not the party of Eisenhower, or even Reagan, anymore.

I agree with you on term limits. "a smarter voter base"? Not holding my breath. Progressive set their sights on the education system decades ago, and they won.

President Biden is a disaster as a president but he didn't build the corrupt machine on Capital Hill all by himself.

Yes, Bibenomics is real. . . . Really Bad

I think he’s failed.

Inflation has outpaced wage growth.

If your a middle income worker, still in the wealth building stage of your life he has been a failure, and crushed your ability to save/build wealth.

Food is up roughly 33 percent, gasoline is up 25 percent from the highest price under trump in 2019.

The people that feel the economy is fantastic, have either already built their wealth, high income earners, or both.

To infer a lack personal responsibility if you’re not doing great in this economy seems odd, and way out of touch with reality.

That's not true if you look at the entire picture from 2020 -2024. The blue line is wage growth. The black line is inflation.

I don’t think bidenomics were in effect in the year 2020

Come on, Matt. You know facts don't matter here. Apparently - despite data that you posted, or the growing economic output, or the labor market resilience, or the stock market records - we're getting "crushed." Don't worry though, Trump is going to save us with his non-inflationary policies around trade and immigration (lol).

I don’t think bidenomics were in effect in the year 2020

Y'all do understand the concept of "lag," right?

Peoples budgets making middle and low incomes haven’t been severely affected the last three years.

For my wife and I just monthly food and fuel expenses are up roughly $500 per month, a drop in the bucket for some of the bowsite big shots.

Then, ;look Jobs lost in last three months. What 200,000 jobs gone and now these numbers. Dig into the last Fed report and graphs. They tell the story since 2021. Now Joe wants to spend 7 Trillion in his 25 budget proposal. Right.....

Wage growth adjusted for inflation is clearly a pay cut 21-24 and there's no way even if you were believing Bidenomics its not.

Biden's approval rating currently stands at 37.4 %, the lowest since he recorded an average of 37.6 % in December 2023, according to poll aggregator FiveThirtyEight's national average calculations.

Biden's disapproval rating is at 56.5 %, giving the president a net disapproval score of 19.2 points—both of which are record markers of disapproval for the president. Not since Coolidge has someone performed so poorly.

Ahhh Come on Man!

Why does the gov leave out what is probably the most critical factors to families?

I would slightly disagree with Ksranchers comment on generational wealth. Sure, the rich have gotten richer. I personally have gotten much richer….but I started with nothing….literally living on my own at 18. No generational wealth in my family.

What makes the US great is the opportunity. The fact one can work hard…and work smart, start your own business and be successful. I am blessed to be one of those people.

From my perspective, the current Dem regime doesn’t get that…going back to Obama’s comment, “ You ( private industry) didn’t build that” to the current Biden comments vilifying Corporations all while they line their pockets from drug company lobbies.

I think the gov should provide an equal playing field for folks to succeed. The Current Dems have done little of that- sanctioning unjust political prosecutions, massive gov regulation, tax and spend, income redistribution and buying votes.

How is it fair that some folks worked 2 jobs to pay for college….but the whiny little bitches get their loans paid off? I put 2 kids through top universities. I’ve never taken unemployment- and could have. It seems I’m an outlier.

I think we are getting to a point where the citizens are counting on the gov for freebies- and not an equal playing field to succeed. Thats the culture the Biden admin has cultivated- all for votes to stay in power. The ‘ Always’ Democrats here don’t see that….or see how their party has gone to shit. Hey, admittedly the Reps have issues too..,but look at the dogshit legislation they have stopped recently coming from the current Dem party.

What gives that silver spoon Idiot the right to dictate to us that we need to suffer for his illegitimate science on climate change.?

The opposite has been true for essentially the past year.

Some of you here (including Beendare) are really vilifying capitalism. Some here keep screaming for the government to lower prices of goods and services. Sounds like a few are advocating for socialism.

I don't know why people keep repeating this misinformation. The February inflation number that includes food and fuel is lower than the number that excludes them. As BEG mentioned, that's been the case for the last year. Here's a quote straight from the CPI report.

"In February, the Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers increased 0.4 percent, seasonally adjusted, and rose 3.2 percent over the last 12 months, not seasonally adjusted. The index for all items less food and energy increased 0.4 percent in February (SA); up 3.8 percent over the year (NSA). "

Look at Jobs report from last 3 months. Well paying jobs all gone. Look BNSF just did. Joe's low poll numbers are a reflection of economic policy, high inflation, and rates gone wild. Things are tight and will remain so. over 100 million Americans do not have $1000 is reserve liquid assets for anything. There's no fixing this in 9 months. Rate cuts will not do it. May help the 1% and Wall St but not kid support, fuel and grocery bills.

Our economy was severely slowed for 2 years UNDER TRUMP. What did you expect to happen? I'll even admit it wasn't Trumps fault and he had limited choices. Regardless, this economic mess started under Trump. By your illogic then he owns it. Simular situation to the housing crisis recession that started under Bush's watch.

I know...historical facts are getting in your way again. But they won't stop people like Beendare and Shawn repeating BS over and over for their cult leader. Trump owns them.

YEP, TRUMP owns a lot of people, on both sides of the isle.

Me either, Matt. The data is readily available.

Mine grew 8%/year on average going back to 2013. From 2013-2017 it grew 12%/year on average. During the period of 2017-2021 it grew -2%/year on average. From 2021-2023 it grew 11%/year on average.

I don't care what link or graph anyone post. If you are the one earning the money and paying the bills in a middle class family. You can easily see that it's not like that graph says.

I am not saying it's Bidens fault or that Trump is going to fix it. A part of it is a self induced issue. Like having more kids, unfortunate medical things, etc. Mine would be considered anecdotal. But I can tell you one thing. It damn sure isn't great on my end. And the same goes for a lot of people like me that I talk to

All that said, I fully agree with you on your last point. I fully believe that at the end of the day the situation has about 1% to do with who the President is.

I am in the crane world and only seen 1% from last year. So inflation does affect my bottom line. But then again I don’t blame just Biden for it either.

A big part of my pay is my bonus which is often very tied to the price of oil. 2019 was a horrible year financially for the industry and we had a terrible bonus (which was paid out in early 2020). 2020 our bonus was paused as were any merit raises (first time in 20 years with the company) due to the pandemic (which showed up in 2021 pay). In 2022 our normal bonus from 2021 was paid out again, we received a one off bonus (10% of our salary) due to the recovery in oil prices and the effects of inflation, and merit raises were reinstituted so yup, definitely a healthy bump that year.

So on paper I have gotten a fairly large average annual raise since 2014. But it never showed up as more on the paycheck. So numbers can be manipulated to make things on those charts look good

President Joe Biden brags that the budget he released on Monday would cut the deficit by $3 trillion, even while offering truckloads of new goodies to Americans.

That will get headlines.

What won’t make the news is the fact that his Fiscal 2025 budget provides clear and incontrovertible evidence that he has caused a fiscal and economic disaster of epic proportions.

How do we know this? Because buried in the back of the annual budget document is a table called “Baseline by Category.” This is a forecast of spending, revenues, and deficits that would result if the government is left on autopilot. ( the link goes on to breakdown the baseline table) ——-

So who is surprised Biden lied saying he is going to spend more…and shrink the deficit at the same time?

.

#1) why are we giving aid to Iran at all? They are attacking us and Israel through many sponsored terrorist groups. #2) Even if Iran does use it for humanitarian items, it makes them flush with other monies to devote to terrorism. #3) So we are suffering inflation so Iran can get more money?

Its mind boggling…..the always Democrats own this ridiculous policy.

A world pandemic and he used 2.5 Trillion. Obiden wants 7.2 Trillion for 2025. Facts are a terrible thing. Understanding them is at there core is your problem.

It was the 106 congress (Republican; Newt Gingrich speaker) that repealed the Glass-Steagal Act and Clinton signed it. But this was a Republican initiative head by Newt.

But nice try...

That was a Clinton initiative from his cabinet member that was running Bank of America. Him and his Clinton buddies made hundreds of millions just like Franking Raines at Fannie. It wasn't Republicans, it was Republicans and Democrats, you know bi-partisan since they all made money. And then of course Obama let them all off the hook when it exploded while Bush tried and convicted Ken Lay.

So it dwarfs you Trump Claim . Which was a worldwide pandemic.

The Biden administration's disastrous open southern border policies have sparked a catastrophic wave of violent crime committed by illegal immigrants. This comes amid the ten million migrants that have invaded the nation, alongside recent calls from radical progressive lawmakers across crime-ridden metro areas to defund the police and limit criminal prosecution. As a result, many law-abiding Americans express growing concern about insecurity amid a new era of explosive crime and chaos.

Let's begin with a series of news headlines that show Chilean crime gangs have been on a nationwide burglary spree, targeting wealthy neighborhoods from coast to coast:

NBC7 San Diego: "Chilean break-in crew is back, and burglaries are on the rise in La Jolla"

Fox 2 Detroit: "High-end Michigan burglaries tied to Chilean crime ring, prompts police task force"

NBC 10 Philadelphia: "Another Chilean man arrested as Montco targeted by 'South American Theft Groups'"

ABC 7 Los Angeles: "OC judge throws out plea deal in case involving alleged Chilean burglary ring"

NBC 12 Scottsdale: "'These are professionals': Latest arrests in East Valley burglary cases tied to Chilean crime ring"

Oklahoma News 4: "Million-dollar OKC homes burglarized, possibly connected to Chilean crime ring"

ZeroHedge: "South American Gangs Target Dozens Of Mansions In Detroit"

AP News: "3 Chilean nationals accused of burglarizing high-end Michigan homes"

Vanity Fair: "Thieves in the Night: A Vast Burglary Ring From Chile Has Been Targeting Wealthy U.S. Households"

Deregulation , Funny !! it was DEI straight up and Barney Frank and Chris Dodd what caused the issue at its root. That's long time been adjudicated. Big GVT started that issue and Big GVT spent our Tax Dollars to help us all out. Weird how working middle class folks who paid their mortgages did not get Home Repo'd. Gvt help the Big Boys and The Street. To big to fail ringin any bells?

Selective memory issues . . . .? I lived it I dont have go back and search some MSLSD fabrication of what happened and their theory.

Joe and Barraaack are responsible for 15-18 Trillion of our Debt carried out with Interest in 2023 dollars. We are in our third term of the Joebama's and it will wreck another generation I have no doubt.

In your shoes, I'd learn to doubt more stuff >;-)

Beendare- do you get anything done daily besides brushing up on your conspiracy theories? Do you have a normal life that's not consumed by right wing nut stuff?

Its a sign of a weak mind when confronted with facts on bad policy gets an attack the messenger response.

Ks, you need to move to Oakland , Ca with your peeps and live under the policy you defend.

—— More facts; The WSJ recently exposed the Tax, Tax and Tax some more Democrats…. This time more Medicare tax on seniors.

Its a paywall but the article, ALL THE PRESIDENTS MEDICARE TAX, they show how The Dems jack the tax rate to 60% on some Americans.

One paragraph from the article:

Re­call that Oba­ma­Care in­creased the 2.9% Medicare tax on wage in­come of mar­ried cou­ples earn­ing more than $250,000 ($200,000 sin­gles) by 0.9 per­cent­age points. It also im­posed a 3.8% sur­charge on their in­vest­ment earn­ings. How­ever, the law ex­empted own­ers and part­ners in pass-through busi­nesses from the sur­tax on profit dis­tri­b­u­tions.

then on to lowes..... over hears managers are discussing the credit delinquency problem.."people's fridge goes on the blink, they buy on credit, but cannot afford".....oblivious he walks on., purchases a few things which are now more expensive... listens to the news...the border crisis....the high crime rate in democratic city's..etc He has forgotten all about BLM, the riots, portland etc....the behind the scenes threat to our 1st and 2nd amendments.

Continues to cling to a progressive democratic party, not realizing he is getting pulled down into their pathetic mess right along with everybody else......He just hasn't figured it out yet.

What sounds crazy now will be policy in ten years. Confiscation of 401s and pensions. Because it’s not equitable that some have retirements and others do not. It will be veiled as how they are saving Social Security.

And now 4 day work days for 5 days of pay. The experts on here reciting the transitory inflation percentage points. :>)))

But here in the real world these socialist policies exacerbate the cost of living for the working class. Inflation numbers and real cost of living are related but not the same thing.

So a business now has to pay people 5 days pay for 4 days of producing products to sell.

Because the socialists that have never owned a business or worked. think that it’s just doing time at work, that you actually don’t have to produce anything to sell.

So now, what is that company going to do? It’s going to raise prices.

This is just one example of socialist liberal policies, driving up the cost-of-living.

Also driving more companies to leave our shores.

Many say the president and politicians don’t have any impact on inflation, gas prices, or prices of anything else.

but when you dig deeper you find out they are behind most cost-of-living price increases.

The housing collapse. Government forcing loans to people that could never pay them back.

Which by the way they are going to do again very soon. Housing equity loans

The current “transitory” inflation was started by Biden, Newsom and Whitmer and other governors keeping the economies closed for 18 months longer than necessary.

And Boggs and Ricky are arguing something that never happened...a stolen election. Bizzaro World.

Me; this inflation sucks.

Them; don't be silly, inflation is low.

Me; then biden's economy sucks.

Them; don't be silly, all measured indicators show a STRONG economy, bidenomics is working!

Me; I'm spending 30% more to survive than I did under Trump's economy!

Them; don't be silly, presidents don't affect the economy.

Me; What? I thought bidenomics had everything great?

Them; which would you rather have... high inflation or a recession?

Me; high inflation? I thought it was low?

And the circle continues.

Why are the Democrats defending Hamas?

Schumer threatens Israel’s Netenyahu as did Biden at his SOTU in his speech and his, “ come to Jesus” comment.

Biden set a “ Red Line” for Israel…just as Obama did in Syria if the used Chemical weapons….when Syria went ahead and did…Obama did nothing.

If anything, Biden should be setting the red line on Hamas as they started this whole provocation and continue to refuse any cease fire. Instead, Biden releases money to Iran. Its the definition of insanity. Is the Biden admin and their Dem followers really stupid enough to think it will be different this time? My god.

Good article on Real Clearwire, “ Why Is President Biden Helping Hamas?” at link

The president appointed John Kerry….and the cadre of political losers running the CDC, Energy, DOJ ( no equal justice there) Homeland, dress wearing Generals.

Next you will deny the policy changes that let 7-10 million immigrants with their hands out or worse into the country. Then deny that mass of low wage and criminal element has not already cost us billions.

Presidential policy has no effect? He squandered tax dollars like no other president in history with his bogus Climate initiatives.

I get it…the always Democrats won’t see it until they are bonked on the head….waste of time trying to show them the light. Thankfully many are seeing it now and it will take another massive cheat for the dems to hold power. …and they are trying on many fronts.

It’s funny that you guys are defending Biden, who was found so senile and incapable of going to court for his stolen documents,……. but you are OK with him being president. The Democrats have to drug him up just to make a decent speech, and the rest of the time is staggering around tripping falling, mumbling what a disgrace.

Saying Presidents have little to do with the economy - good or bad - is hardly defending them. I’ve said countless times Biden’s policies are terrible.

says the guy that said he voted for biden..."for the constitution."

lol

speaking of things that "never happened"...show me where i have ever said the election was "solen"...talk about "bizzaro world."

7.6% tax increase to small businesses- thats a 20% increase to them they will have to pass on to consumers

Seniors retiring and taking money from investments…or folks selling their business; Biden wants to apply the top 44.6% tax rate to capital gains- double the current tax rate- if it puts you over $1m dollars- easy to do if selling a small business or a chunk of investments while you are still earning some $$.

Biden wants to raise corp tax significantly- which is a stealthy way of hammering consumers with more inflation- corps just pass input costs on as higher cost of goods and services. Are there still people fooled by Bidens ‘ Big Bad Corporation rant?

All this tax to fund the wasted spending; Hundreds of billions to Ukraine, Palestine and Hamas, Iran and then all of his silly Climate proposals, massive illegal immigration, Homeless, pandering to LGBTQs,etc etc.

Show me a few problems the Biden admin has actually solved? His admin has literally made everything worse either directly, indirectly or by unintended consequences.

The president sets the tone. I think its naive to claim all of that bad policy has no effect on our economy.

You pointed to a bunch of stuff that hasn’t even happened. It is not enough to want to do something. Biden can want all our cars to be powered by unicorn farts and rainbow piss, doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. The economy isn’t going to move meaningfully based on what Biden wants. I think it’s naive to suggest “tone” is what moves markets.

Gotta love this report by the GAO;

70 Percent or More of F-35s May Not Be Combat Capable A September 2023 Government Accountability Office report on the F-35 revealed some shocking statistics on just how unready F-35s are to provide combat power.

Again, the president sets the tone….and we have a military leadership installed by the Biden puppet masters more concerned with pronouns that actually protecting our country.

Government spending on the "military industrial complex" has been documented since the 60s. Ike warned us. Nineteen sixty-bleeping one, he warned us. Dems and GOP alike bow down to 'Big Defense' lobby $$.

Election year. Unleaded fuel be $4 and WTI $90/brl in a blink of an eye. Diesel at 4.10 now.

Big Oil wants Joe gone so we are going to pick up that bill.

That would be quite the decrease.

Unleaded fuel on average costs ~$150/bbl ($3.50/gal, 42 gallons in a barrel). That would be a 40% decrease.

Including my year end bonus each year I am in the 1% range.

Does anyone even know what a drag on our economy 7 million illegal immigrants is? Think about all of the costs involved, not just housing, feeding and medical but schooling and cost of crime. Then add the Biden admin is suing AZ and Texas -litigation cost- trying to let even more of these illegals in.

The latest headline; Haitian National Arraigned For Rape Of 14-Year-Old Girl At Massachusetts Hotel

(Yeah, Biden flew this guy into our country)

Who is paying to house these Haitian immigrants at the Comfort Inn? This is a tiny portion of the hundreds of billions (?) on these immigrants.

Then there is this from the Same article as above( Epoch Times)

The recent March 13 rape of a 14-year-old girl in Massachusetts at a state-run migrant shelter falls on the same week Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO) agents from the Boston division of the U.S Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) apprehended several migrants living illegally in the state with sexual assault convictions in their native countries.

On the same day Mr. Alvarez is alleged to have raped the 14-year-old girl at the Rockland hotel, ICE officials arrested a Brazilian fugitive found living illegally in Framingham.

According to a statement from the Boston ICE office, the 51-year-old is wanted on charges of raping a 14-year-old last July in Brazil.

In just a one-week sweep conducted nationwide in January, ERO agents report that they arrested 171 “noncitizens” with pending charges or convictions for murder, homicide, and assault of children. A similar one-week sweep conducted last month turned up 275 migrants with sex convictions living illegally in the country.

The sweep results come amid the release of the Department of Homeland Security U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement 2025 Budget Overview, showing that the Biden administration proposes to cut in half the number of deportations conducted in the United States. ———

I suppose we cannot say how much of a drag on our economy all of this bad Biden admin policy has created….. The illegal Immigration debacle as nobody has tallied it up. I bet its significant.

Its no wonder the cops don’t have time to investigate my nieces stolen car 10 days ago while she was in her nursing clinical studies at the Oakland Kaiser hospital- they are inundated from ‘ Set the Tone’ politics.

So next time there is a government shutdown threat. Let’s remember they don’t do anything. And ask them to take 6-12 months off.

I would be ok with a month on a month off. Or 6 months on 6 months off.

But keeping the peasants divided is a full time job.

If your budget includes payments on your loans, and covers all other line items, and you have money left over, is that not a 'surplus' ? (Yeah, you could argue - and I would agree - that that surplus should be applied to paying down the loans, but that's a different issue.)

oh heck, did you see the analysis on the bullet train? Yeah, Ca started this boondoggle back in the Bush admin....it was supposed to go from SF to LA...but now it will go from the middle of nowhere Madera to another middle of nowhere location. The costs have ballooned out of control.

What's going to kill CA is the latest legislation they are floating on EVERY prison inmate being able to appeal their sentence if someone of their race was wrongfully convicted of the same crime or some shit like that- its crazy all stemming from the liberal brainfart that there are "Too many people in prison"

Goldman Sachs does.

"One likely reason why GDP growth was stronger in 2023 is that immigration ran well above the recent historical average, boosting the size of the labor force and potential GDP," Goldman Sachs economist Ronnie Walker wrote in a research note on Sunday. "We have updated our payrolls and GDP forecasts to incorporate the ongoing boost from above-trend immigration."

Huge Saturday night live opportunity!!

Just a thought based on nothing except how California runs in general

Credit card debt is crazy high making a person think that the economy isn't so good. But look up what the average american has in savings. I am not talking in retirement or anything else. Just savings. That number would make you think the economy is doing awesome. But look at the breakdown of the savings numbers and you will see the real story. A small percentage have a REALLY large amount while the percentage of people who have 1/4 of the amount they did 2yrs ago is large. Those are the people holding that massive credit card debt.

There a few on here that think the economy is doing just great. They are probably up there in that wealthier bracket. And I have no problem with them being there. They are probably there by a lot of hard work and a little luck. But they don't represent the big percentage of americans that are not in their shoes.

Personally, I think gauging the health of the economy is complex. There are multiple metrics, often conflicting, that make it very difficult to give a definitive, one-size-fits-all type of answer. In the current economy, there are no doubt both leading and lagging indicators that would suggest that no, not all is great with the economy.

With that said, I’ve seen some pretty dire descriptions and predictions from folks on here. That is what I take issue with. Furthermore, that take seems to focus on two major issues - inflation and immigration - but also seems to lack any acknowledgement of the economic complexities of those issues (such as the root causes or the economic positives surrounding those issues). In short, if this is what people think a garbage economy truly is then we’ve become pretty spoiled. People need to revisit 1929, 1973, 1981, 2008, 2020, etc if that is the case.

On balance, “ The Rich” are folks that have used their smarts to use econ conditions to their benefit. That will always happen.

I think we have to protect the avg American against conditions that 1) affect their basic needs and 2) limit their prospects to get ahead.

The current Inflation, bad Immigration policy, political polarization, Government wasted spending and pandering to every special interest group seriously affects the Avg American.

1) Musk lays it out how this massive immigration is a ploy to keep Dems in power- easy search

2) link is to a Mexican illegal outlining the scams he is perpetuating on Amercans, translated from Spanish on Twitter- its truly unbelievable this is happening inour country

https://twitter.com/mandala_mandy/status/1769870061576015881

Just because a subset of people are struggling doesn't mean the system as a whole is broken. These two things can be true independently, and I struggle to see how they're even relevant to each other (beyond the fact that I'd rather have issues when the broader economy is strong than the opposite). No one should expect the economy to be working for everyone, everywhere, at all times.

I keep hearing how great the economy was under Trump from a number of people - are you saying that should be invalidated because a subset of workers were laid off during that time period?

So, again , when people are having trouble paying their bills, when people are having to work 2 jobs to make ends meet, when people’s credit card debt keeps getting higher, when people can’t afford their first house, when people are having to raid their 401K to pay bills, is your answer to them is that it could always be worse ?

Which is why the economy is the # 1 issue in most current political polls, or # 2 right behind the border crisis.

All the things you are quoting are readily available and opened source by many companies and GVT that track that data. It is not necessary to post it here. Hardly Hypothetical.

Look at Layoffs alone. Well over 200k and growing everyday and it not AI induced. Just by the Dem's own burying the word OBidenomics alone kind of bares out that metric. DOA.

There are always winners and losers to what degree of the voting population is where the rubber meets the road come Nov.

Look at the big announcement today. People , States and subsets of such are going pull funds from folks pushing ESG and that hurts them in the big scheme on their way of life. Capitalism at work.

Record unsecured debt, no reserve cash on hand, high living costs, etc. That is Obidenomics.

You're asking me to provide feedback to people who are in a situation where they are living beyond their means with no information as to how they got there. Sorry, give me more info if you want a complete answer.

The reality is they are in the minority. You can look up statistics that speak to the extent those scenarios are playing out. Something like 7% of the working population of this country works two jobs, not all of which because they have to. Somewhere shy of 4% of Americans made early withdrawals from their 401Ks last year. Delinquent mortgages are hovering somewhere around 3%.

So again, how did these people in your scenario find themselves in a situation that upwards of 95% of the country seems to be able to avoid? I'm assuming you won't answer that question, but I will attempt to answer (partially, anyway) yours.

Whenever I'm dealing with anything in life, it is always good to keep things in perspective. The same applies too others. And as much as these people are likely struggling (regardless of how they got into their predicament), I would likely say (1) it could always be worse and (2) this too shall pass. I would also tell them to remember E+R=O. Event+Response=Outcome. We can't control the events, but we can control our responses to them to get the outcome we want. That's what they need to focus on to right the ship.

But for most of them it’s that the food they need to eat is 20-25% higher than it used to be , fuel and electricity has increased, vehicles have increased, insurance has increased, etc.,etc., etc., . Basically everything is costing more than it did by a significant percentage.

Yes, wages have increased but not at a pace to keep up with the inflation rate of daily needs. According to some polls 78% of people are living paycheck to paycheck. I have trouble seeing that it’s that high but I’m not the one doing the polling. Obviously, that varies across different income levels . Throw in an expensive emergency here or there and it’s not hard to see how someone might not be able to pay off their credit card or have to dip into 401K to pay for something.

An HVAC unit goes out and there’s suddenly a 10,000 bill that was unexpected

Everything is about perspective. . . .Whoa. Folks are all over the spectrum in their life situations. Because your not or I'm not does not does not mean I don't have empathy for those folks. I have to understand where I came from and a similar Jimmy Carter chitshow. Guess that's part of my perspective? Never thought I would see it as bad as that again. Alas, its a way different world now but with the same Rouge Players with feckless leadership in our GVT.

Never thought I would see the day our Sen Majority Ldr , a jew, who did not do his country's service time cut the legs out of his peoples leader on the world stage during a conflict. Who is at least half or more Ukrainian and has no problem letting them fight the Russian Bear. Help his own folks in Israel, not so much. He need Muslim votes in Mi and MN

My wife is a high school english teacher. She says if a few kids in class are struggling then she is doing her job. If half the class is struggling she is failing at her job. If you judged her off of the top 10% of kids in class she would be great. If you judge her off of the bottom 10% she would be awful. To find out how she is actually doing you need to pull the middle 50%-70% and look at them.

Do the same with our economy and it I can tell you it's not how your trying to paint it

I picked data that spoke to the scenarios Nyati raised. I don't know what to make of credit card debt or how bad it is. It's been increasing, it's at record levels, but pandemic aside when balances dropped thanks to stimulus, it basically seems to be following the same trend it has for the last 10-12 years. The average outstanding CC balance has increased by ~$1,500-2,000/person in this country over the last three years. How bad is that objectively speaking?

Lets recap Bidenomics;

Folks relying on exponential Credit to get by Food inflation up almost 30% in 3 short years Gov spending ramping up in the stratosphere almost identical to that CC chart Part time jobs ramping up, full time jobs to US Citizens a negative number Hundreds of billions of our tax dollars devoted to Illegal immigrants that Biden let in Tax to Corporations going up...which is a pass through driving up inflation to all of us Increase tax on Cap Gains of our investments- again

The fact that the same kinds of problems are also happening in European countries is poignant, it emphasizes the horrible ideology of the Liberal progressives.

And what explains the spike from 2014-2020?

So according to that graph. If our economy is doing great now. The economy was booming sometime around late 2007 to early 2009

Not sure what you’re looking at. To me 2007-2009 looks a lot like 2017-2020. These were all pre-collapse and it looks like people were leveraging themselves against the backdrop of a strong economy. How much of that is going on right now?

Folks relying on exponential Credit

It’s easy to look at a trend and make some snap judgements that fall apart on closer examination. Again, this “exponential” credit represents a $1,500 increase in the average balance. Hardly feels like a “sky is falling” statistic - unless you’re chicken little.

If they couldn’t pay the 1500 then how are they going to pay the 1500 +25% interest?

Which is why it’s now shooting straight up like a rocket

BEG is correct. Over the last decade, or so, people have been increasing their CC debt by about $200 every 4-5 years. The pandemic altered that trend for a few years. Now it appears to be following the same trajectory as before the pandemic.

As for the cause? People seem to forget that we had a global pandemic which massively impacted supply chain which caused inflation. Then there was inflation caused by government stimulus in response to the pandemic. Then there was a war in Ukraine which also contributed to inflation on a global level.

Biden had limited influence on the majority of that, but sure….it’s all his fault.

The fact that the amount being financed by CC debt took off at such a sharp rise after they were able to pay their debt down with government funds indicates how expensive it is to live now

And again, I’m not certain how bad it really is. So people have to pay 25% on the additional $1,500/year of credit card balance they’re carrying. Is an additional $300/year in interest per person truly going to send the economy tits up?

I’m not dismissing it. But you all seem to be very reliant on a singular piece of economic data that historically has been all over the place. Every bit of data needs to be considered and put into context.

Most people have run out of government Covid funds and having to pay for inflation with their own money but doesn’t look like they’re able to without running up credit

Go talk to the president of Hertz that had to resign because they bought in to the electric car BS

And Hertz is now stuck with vehicles no one will rent.

Battery minerals for EV batteries come from the Amazon and China. Those policies will have us more reliant on hostile nations.

Petroleum companies will not invest in ten year future projects.

Nope no effect on the economy or prices what so ever.

Flat out false. Literally what I do.

I don’t see anything in their mandating Hertz buys electric cars right now. I also know exactly what will happen to that standard once a Republican gets elected as President.

and how that is going to drive your electric bill through the roof.

I think we all see what we want to see

Since it’s what you do

Tell us what your crystal ball tells you, when the next oil refinery is going to be built and where?

A new refinery? Never. Anyone suggesting one should be built clearly doesn’t understand the economics of a new refinery. We haven’t had a new one built in this country for 50 years. That’s going back to back to Gerald Ford.

Really ?

There was, but it wasn’t what I would consider a major refinery. It is more niche and small scale.

BEG, you don’t see a problem with Biden mandating what a private company can buy or sell outside of the Defense production act ?????

Yes I do. I also don’t think the regulations are actually moving markets in a meaningful way at the moment. And I think there’s a pretty high likelihood they’ll be reversed.

Things can be bad and also not matter at the same time. That’s what you see with a lot of this policy. Most people seem to focus on the bad part. I tend to focus on the not mattering part.

That about sums up the car wreck that is Dem policy- a stolen car wreck

My buddy manages a large inn on Sanibel Island, FL. He said his business is busier than ever too, despite the fact that Sanibel got hammered by hurricane Ian just a few years ago.

The tourist industry has always been one of my economic indicators. When people stop skiing, or hanging out on a tropical beach, or traveling to hunt, it's a bad sign. Apparently, a lot of people aren't suffering too much from this horrible economy.

It supposed to help from the bottom up, and the middle out… per the big guy. Joe Biden

Median household income in the US is $75k. If you’re at or below this, Bidenomics hasn’t worked that great.

If your vacationing in San Ibell island Florida or Winter Park Colorado, your household income is probably well over the median.

Bidenomics is “crushing” people from the bottom up, and the middle out. The opposite of how he claims his policies are supposed to work.

I realize this is amusing to a few on here, but for probably half or more of the country it’s not all that funny.

Liberal policies have stopped crude refineries construction permits for decades.

So since you are the all knowing oil Barron.

When a current refinery is off line for season switch over. fire or many other reasons.

Does the price of pump fuel go up in the area that refinery serves. Yes or no.

The answer is a definite Yes

Let’s see how you twist or ignore these facts.

We have to import different blends because we can’t refine them.

Now as usual show me a graph that we are exporting more oil than ever

exporting oil does us no good, we need oil we can use here

You don’t need to build a new refinery if you can expand capacity at an existing one. The “no new refinery” argument is a gigantic red herring.

When a current refinery is off line for season switch over. fire or many other reasons.

Does the price of pump fuel go up in the area that refinery serves. Yes or no.

Anytime you curtail supply prices are going to rise. Who is saying otherwise?

exporting oil does us no good, we need oil we can use here

Guess it all depends on what your definition of good is. I’m happy to list a multitude of ways in which exporting oil is indeed good. Furthermore, if you’re saying it’s not good for prices, that would be 100% false. Oil trades on a global market.

So flights for two FL to Den Bus Cls $1000ea, Train to Winter Park $300ea, lift tickets during Last week, this week and next Avg $215/days 7days, 3 meals a day plus drinks $250/day, etc etc. Pretty clear this is not the middle America here unless this is their one big 2024 Vacation. Basing off how many locals under 22 with Yearly passes zipping down the runs prolly not a good indicator of economic tightness. So, yer gonna drop 10-12k for 10 days and your in your what early 60's. Not a big deal. For 65% of the nation its not happening. Be nice, did it lots in my 20's.

Got bean, wheat and corn field with trees down in them. Got dry weather and ground got to get them cut, pushed out. Get fertilizer paid for and dumped. Maybe you can help me with that bill which has doubled since Joe been stumbling around.

A good indicator that folks were gonna spend $ was during the Great Covid Scare. That was easy, buy stock at fire sale prices and hold a year or two. EASY. That was an indicator. Then, GVT gave free $ to spend to everyone. Once in a lifetime chance.

Most folks cant buy or build a house now and Im talking guys in their 40-50's. Hell a kitchen & bath cost 70k alone. So, tell me when enough 50 yr olds cant have, build or buy a home in this Obiden economic boom, what do you think is going to happen GG?

Both sides like to pretend they are the voice for the lower income classes. The left does it by redistributing wealth and breeding governmental dependancy. The right does it with mostly lip service. Neither side has done a damn thing to narrow the gap between the haves and have nots. But that's the beauty of our economy. The opportunities are there for anyone who wants them badly enough. You should never count on the government for anything.

If 40-50 year old folks don't own a house by now, I'd ask them WTH have you been waiting for? We just went thru a decade of virtually free mortgages. No one's fault but their own.

He’s growing the economy from the bottom up!

I’m merely highlighting that posting articles about how unaffordable housing doesn’t tell the whole story. Yes, part of that is from interest rates. But part of that is also appreciation of home prices - which while not great for buyers, is certainly great for homeowners and sellers.

After few years of Bidenomics, they couldn’t anymore????

I pulled up the article from your screenshot. As I suspected, it pertains only to the subprime auto loan market. Imagine that - those individuals with the poorest credit, with a history of financial mismanagement - are demonstrating that they can’t navigate the current economy. Keep in mind the default rate is 6% for that group. So, 94% of even subprime borrowers are meeting their financial obligations. That headline doesn’t sound as shocking though, eh bowhunt?

Honest question. How do I access that wealth? And I don't mean kicking the can farther down the road. I mean truly access it to help with the current finances.

HELOCS, home equity loans, refinancing your mortgage, selling your house. Some of those may be more practical than others. They all come with some level of cost as well.

I tend agree about using them for daily living expenses, But, If you have a bunch of high interest CC debt, a home equity loan with a much lower interest rate can be used to pay the CCs off and spread the debt out for a longer period. Or, a home equity loan can be used for home improvement projects that increase the value of your home. Or, if you have a new business venture, you can use an equity loan to get it started. Leveraging debt isn't always a bad thing.

Unless your name is Donald Trump , then it’s a crime against humanity

Since a lot of trumps wealth is real estate isn’t that subject to personal opinion?

A side note the judge in the case gave his opinion that Mar a logo is worth 18 million when actually to most real estate people it’s worth a lot more.

Right now, Trump can't seem to afford to appeal.

Not to mention the proposed stricter emissions rules would apply to automobile manufacturers, which Hertz is not.

Everyone tries to stretch their assets to get better loan rates. It’s what is done. Banks look at the financials and decide for themselves and they have whole staffs of people that do that. The banks didn’t complain, they were happy. Got paid back and made money.

The problem is when a prosecutor runs on a platform of elect me and I’ll find a crime on Trump.

That’s not the way our judicial system is supposed to or was set up to work. Our nation will go into a deep dark hole if that’s the standard going forward

Banks will typically downward adjust a borrower’s net worth to account for the impact of taxes, sales costs, etc, so the $4Bn to $2.5Bn haircut doesn’t tell much of a story. The notion is that $1 of equity isn’t worth a dollar if a property needs to be sold to satisfy a debt. There are income taxes (~$.30) and sales costs (~$.05) that need to be netted out. That simple math comes out very close to the amount Trump’s net worth was adjusted by DB on a % basis, although you can’t do good analysis without know the cost basis of the properties involved.

What does tell a story is that, under greater scrutiny, it was determined that the $4Bn amount was grossly - and knowingly - overstated. Therein lies the problem.

And having worked in commercial and corporate banking for over 20 years, it is not true that most companies and people commit fraud in their dealings with banks.

Look at what 1000 plus sq ft under roof, concrete, complete and furnished pre Covid? 50k maybe??? Today thats 100k. Not much different from a new trk, 2013 40K, today 80K.

15yrs ago these folks were not 40 0r 50yrs old. Had kids and maybe rented. Starting out in life. Have you even looked at what kiddie care is for two kids a month? Maybe you should. Runs about $1000/kid depending on needs and location. So, one parent is likely working for that payment.

You Bow libs that did all your buying and rearing of kids under good economy's are now like. "to bad for you younger folks now. Drive a hooptii, eat Ramen, drink powder milk and your family will be like mine one day". Chillin in a resort town in the MT's eating ribeye's puffing premium legal blunts and laughing at everyone that has not got there yet. Yeah, your Rich indeed.

You are right in that it is not “legislation”, but the proposed EPA rules are very clearly part of Biden’s platform so relevant to the topic. Probably even more relevant than legislation as a president is the one who signs legislation into law but not the one who writes it. Biden can have a greater hand in dictating policy through EPA rules.

That $150/sqft is everything cheap. Project source faucets, vanity’s, toilets, flooring. Etc…. You could easily get $220-$250/sqft in it if you had two baths in it and chose kolher or delta stuff. Add a tile shower and bathroom floors and you are there.

And for the record I am not saying it’s not relevant to the topic.

It used to be that congress hawkishly defended its primacy of making law but has increasingly deferred to the SCOTUS in recent years - much to the SCOTUS’s dismay.

Typical Shawn Magyar, he thinks he knows more about your life than you do. I was just getting my adult life started in the late '70s and early '80s when inflation was in the double digits. I bought my first home at 28 years old and paid 12% interest on the mortgage. I've endured recessions in the '70s '80s, '90s, 2000, and 2008, as have most of us here. We all made it thru those tough times, as will most younger folks today.

You Chicken Littles crack me up.

We’ll yeah…at $15.00 an hour plus tips, to work at McDonalds?…That is, until the burger building robots take over.

Bidens two faced aid to Hamas and Iran....while trying to placate Israel is pretty see through.

The linked article discusses other failures that don't make the headlines. It was picked up by Real Clear so you can read without the pay wall, "Biden Weakens America’s Global Clout" [you might have to click the link through the RC site]

I doubt anyone wants to be the imperialistic USA of decades past...but we are definitely losing influence to Russia and China. If we screw around and lose world currency status....our dollars will not go near as far as they do today.

Tell us please how to late twenty's folks with school loans, couple kids, child care, food, etc making it? Can you, sure.

Much tougher today than Banking failures of the mid 80's. I would take the 12% loan and 75c fuel, 40c burgers, and Granddad watching the curtain climbers. The Bowsite Anachronism is here to stay. The all knowing taking stock tips from other Bowsiter's. Hilarious.

Exactly who has "seen that thing" I have, Shawn? When did you see it, and which "thing" are you talking about?

Congrats on raising kids, how are they doing now? Maybe you can share some of your GI Joe stories too. We're always impressed by those.

From a resident

Simultaneously in Illinois, the Mayor of Chicago is suing Glock because they made a handgun that the thugs on the streets were able to invent “glock switches” to turn them full auto. The legal theory is that Glock should have made it more difficult to convert their guns to full auto.

We’ve entered clown world my friends. I hate to sound condescending, but anyone reading this in Illinois better have a plan to get the heck out of that State. It took me ten years to escape and required a $300k loss on a home and $100k in excess property taxes paid over the same timeframe in any surrounding State. All for the privilege of living in a State with a lower credit rating than Romania, a $100 BILLION+ unfunded pension liability for teachers, soaring crime, an outright ban on GCA/NFA items, annual emission testing of vehicles, the highest property taxes in the nation, a 5% income tax rate, some of the highest fuel charges in America, and a one-party rule representation in the US Senate for my lifetime. The smash and grabs on the Magnificent Mile have driven away the tourists, the Gold Coast’s mansions are down in value almost 50%, several billionaires and their enterprises have left, etc.

There is no recovery for Illinois. Run. Illinois is the model for what Obama, oops I mean Biden wants for the entire country.

Speaking of the housing situation. If you live in New York just move into someone else’s house. The cops will arrest will arrest the real house owner and not the squatter.

Biden just insulted Netanyahu…but still throws them aid…….all while sending aid to Palestine…and Iran on the other side.

Talk about incentivizing war. Its like tossing a match in a dry field and claiming the wildfire did it…not the match.

Biden sets the tone...and the tone is giveaways, freebies, Spend money on frivolous stuff...and worst of all, Screw the hard working folks...especially those with some money.

Example; Vigilates went in and Booted the Squatters in that Queens NY home where the owner was arrested trying to TAKE POSSESSION OF HER OWN HOME. Its crazy. These crooks just stole her home- and she gets arrested. Just one more example of the crooks and illegals having more rights than the hard working citizenry. [ I had the same thing happen to me in Ca back in 2011 on a house I bought- though I didn't go to jail, cost me an attorney $$$$ and 5 months of time]

Frankly, I would give those vigilantes a Citizen of the year Award!

Liberal progressive policy is creating all of this. Good people just aren't going to stand by and take it and I think trump is right- people are fed up and we will have some big blow ups in the future. Its disgusting....Palestinians literally shut down Congress and get a slap on the Hand. Grandmas walk into the capitol on J6- and are held for years without rights in prison. While the smug Liberals whine about MAGA...something tells me many of those libbers are going to get those smiles wiped off their faces.

I hate to see things get ugly....but thats where Bidenomics is taking us....

Biden just mandated stricter EV standards on an accelerated timeline. The facts from our own Gov agency NHTSA; The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration NHTSA did an impact assessment of 4 fuel standard proposals and compared them to the cost of doing nothing. Guess what.

The Wall Street Journal reports: Buried deep on Page 56,342 of volume 88 of the Federal Register, the agency makes this concession about its latest proposed rules: “Net benefits for passenger cars remain negative across alternatives.” In plain English, this means that mandating ever-more-stringent fuel economy for passenger cars will harm society. _______

See the link for the entire article....but the chart from the NHTSA tells the story- doing nothing is better than Bidenomics current proposal.

Biden just mandated stricter EV standards on an accelerated timeline. The facts from our own Gov agency NHTSA; The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration NHTSA did an impact assessment of 4 fuel standard proposals and compared them to the cost of doing nothing. Guess what.

The Wall Street Journal reports: Buried deep on Page 56,342 of volume 88 of the Federal Register, the agency makes this concession about its latest proposed rules: “Net benefits for passenger cars remain negative across alternatives.” In plain English, this means that mandating ever-more-stringent fuel economy for passenger cars will harm society. _______

See the link for the entire article....but the chart from the NHTSA tells the story- doing nothing is better than Bidenomics current proposal.

Democrats want to spend $50 TRILLION to become carbon neutral & held a hearing to tell us why.

Dem witness: Carbon dioxide is "a huge part of our atmosphere."

Me: "It’s actually a very small part of our atmosphere." (0.035%)

Dem Expert (Ha!) olympic cross country skier Gus Schumacher : "Well, okay. But, yeah. I don’t know." ____________

Kennedy obliterated him. It's 5 minutes of disaster for the Dem leadership on Twitter...it's entertaining actually that they would trot out a bunch of clueless Climate weinies to sell their proposed Trillions in spending. [site won't let me link to Twitter]

Maybe he should have asked if he knew how many Metric tons of Carbon the Climate Czar and hypocrite extraordinaire John Kerry's jet has pumped into our atmosphere since Biden was elected; [Answer; 300 Metric tons]

Trees convert oxygen to CO during the night. They photosynthesis durning the day. It’s about a 1:1 ratio. Because trees don’t photosynthesis all day long.

But, the carbon credit guys among us don’t care to know reality. Only the agenda they decide is most correct.

Estimates for 10,000 years ago there was 6 billion forest hectares and in 2018 there was 4 billion hectares.

"People regurgitate facts from agendas."

For some people....Agreed.

????? Where did you learn Botany. O2 is produced as a byproduct of photosynthesis. When the sun shines.

(simplified) CO2+ H2O --> CH2O + O2. Trees take in water and carbon dioxide, convert those to carbohydrate and release O2 in the process.

Only during the growing season. Otherwise, trees and perennials produce far more.

Maybe for one week in July lol. But eventually that may be true statement lol.

Besides that, we have estimates. And basing facts on estimates is accurate only if we are correct. And, unless you got a relative from 10,000 years ago that told you different, I’ll stick with what we know. Instead of what agendas tell me to think.

False

Only Justin can complain about agenda and people using it instead of facts, make something up, and then rejects the best scientific data we have (estimates) and rejects due to his agenda.

A Bowsite hall of fame classic

Edit my wrong stat; The new regs call for Auto manufacturers to make up 67% of their new car sales EV’s by 2032. This will ratchet up to that amount but a quick search doesn’t show the exact figures.

Its obvious to anyone with 1/2 an IQ- the Democrats don’t want folks driving pickups. I bet I will get some kind of exemption because I have contractor licenses, construction businesses…but limiting them will make them harder to get and drive up the cost more than Bidenflation already has.

Don’t you think the people that voted these idiots in should have to live by their policy?

But global warming is the worst it’s been in the history of the Earth itself?!?! 10,000, or 2000 years ago… so who really are the experts?

No he didn’t.

What strikes me is insane is the tree huggers who insist that all forests be maintained by doing nothing. One of the best ways to sequester carbon is to build with wood. The carbon in the chestnut beams in the old house I live in has been 'sequestered' since 1882.

'Old-growth forest' has become a religious icon for these nut cases. Modern forestry management is the environments best friend. A good mix of forest age classes, a.k.a. 'habitat diversity,' benefits the most types of wildlife, from mice to moose.

It's the hunter-conservationists who are putting their money up for the cause of healthy Forests. (I would encourage everyone who owns a shotgun to join the Ruffed Grouse Society.)

The one home with the nicer exterior is listed for $375k the other $330K. When it comes to money i know 2 things....how to make it and how to save it. A person(s) should have their(s) head examined if they were to even think about spending that kind of money for that little of a home.

The actual is; Automakers could still comply with the final rule by making EVs account for 67 percent of new car sales in 2032, according to the EPA. But they could also meet the requirements by making all-electric vehicles account for 56 percent and making plug-in hybrids represent 13 percent, the agency said. ——- The fact is; This will make the cost of buying a new pickup even more expensive than it is now….and the Democrat message is clear…they don’t want you to drive pickups

Media being kept away from reporting the disaster at the Mexican border…attached pic is our border patrol putting up a sign restricting media presence ( if the site works)

This is how policy impacts gas at the pumps. Just as we all know it does.

Some here want to deny that liberal policies have any impact on prices.

“ In Wirth's view, the U.S. won't ever build another refinery. That's because it's impractical for an energy company to consider building a refinery due to the current environment. Wirth said, "You're looking at committing capital 10 years out, that will need decades to offer a return for shareholders, in a policy environment where governments around the world are saying, 'We don't want these products to be used in the future.'" So even if a company like Chevron was willing to commit the time and capital to build a refinery, it doesn't make sense”

Location makes prices crazy.

Was looking at a list of home prices by state and it's not really surprising. BUT, the highest states prices were dominated by areas surrounding big cities. Get away from those and houses are at a fraction price-wise. (For instance, compare greater New York City with say, the Utica area.)

Unfortunately, the urbanization of jobs continues to drive things in this direction. You can live cheap if you don't need to work 'in the city'.

By 2027 Biden mandated 34% EVs on the road.

Don’t you think the people that voted these idiots in should have to live by their policy?

They got everything they want. How long would it last?

No he didn’t.

Citizens sued…but an Obama appointed judge shut down the lawsuit….the House passed a resolution to over turn this…but the Dems in the Senate stalled and stalled and let the resolution run out.

George Soros, Gavin Newsom, Adam Schiff, Pelosi, Maxine waters, Omar, AOC, Tlaib…etc is the Current Democrat party. What can you say about the voters putting these people in power. My god…and there are still some here defending the party wrecking our country…

They may be allowed by state law to vote for other measures on the ballot.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:18%20section:611%20edition:prelim)

Hundreds of billions of dollars are going down the drain because of Democrat immigration policy. More drugs, cartel members and vicious, criminals creating havoc with our country.Oh, but let’s focus on a couple percentage points of something ..and argue the crap out of that.

Now if only the Reps can get their act together, dump all of the RINOs…we just might get somewhere.

.

But I guess Biden policies has nothing to do with any of that and it’s pure coincidence

Can you explain 1) how building new refineries would make economic sense when U.S refinery capacity utilization rates are well below the historical peak, and 2) how having more un-used refining capacity would decrease gas prices at the pumps? Some of you folks who think they have it all figured out are simply ignorant of what drives capital allocation decisions in industry. No CEO in their right mind would push for new refineries when the domestic currently has ample capacity - not to mention the most cost-effective way to increase capacity is to expand existing refineries rather than build new ones.

But, but, but…Bidenomics.

But remember, Biden made the term Bidenomics up and promoted it, and now it hangs like an albatross around his neck

And yet the full extent of the comment I was responding to.

Despite the record amounts of exported oil, the EIA states that the United States imported more oil than it exported. This is in part because many of the refineries in the country are not set up to process the type of crude oil that is produced in the United States. Instead, the United States primarily imports oil from its neighboring countries.

It’s easy to twist these numbers to make liberals fossil fuel policies look like they are working.

What you can't make up is what I actually posted. I never said anything was "great". I asked a simple question that no one has answered, so far. I'll try again.

If you believe administrative policy dictates oil production and the price of gas, then what policies caused record US oil production and nearly 30% lower gas prices in 2023?

Production goes down, prices go up, until high prices drive demand down. Then prices go down, demand increases, and prices climb again. It's a game, and Joe Biden is a minor player at best.

Or to twist them to make it seem as though it’s Biden’s fault.

This literally doesn't matter. Like at all.

When any American president says we’re going to end fossil fuels it’s going to have an effect on what the world perceives and how oil companies decides their strategy going forward. Both play a part in price points. Policy decisions change simple supply and demand economics.

No it doesn't. American oil companies are smart enough to separate economic fact from political bluster. We are continuing to set oil production records in this country.

Much of the additional crude the US is producing Our refineries can not process.

So it’s being shipped overseas. And the type of crude we can process is being imported.

I didn’t say Biden. I said liberals.

It’s like saying; hey I’m making 200% more wages in a week. But I’m getting paid in currency I can’t use.

Not true, according to the EIA. Here's a quote from the link above:

" Most of the crude oil produced in the United States is refined in U.S. refineries along with imported crude oil to make petroleum products."

Much of the additional crude the US is producing Our refineries can not process.

That's not even close to true. We are net importers of crude oil and net exporters of refined crude product. Like literally the opposite is true.

Despite the record amounts of exported oil, the EIA states that the United States imported more oil than it exported. This is in part because many of the refineries in the country are not set up to process the type of crude oil that is produced in the United States. Instead, the United States primarily imports oil from its neighboring countries.

"Although exports increased in the first half of 2023, the United States still imports more crude oil than it exports, meaning it remains a net crude oil importer. The United States continues to import crude oil despite rising domestic crude oil production in part because many U.S. refineries are configured to process heavy, sour crude oil (with a low API gravity and high sulfur content) rather than the light, sweet crude oil (with a high API gravity and low sulfur content) typically produced in the United States.

U.S. crude oil imports come primarily from historical trading partners such as Mexico and Canada. Heavy, sour grades of crude oil are often discounted compared with light, sweet grades of crude oil because they require more complex refinery units to produce profitable yields of refined products such as motor gasoline, diesel, and jet fuel. Most U.S. crude oil imports take place when it is more profitable for U.S. refiners to process discounted heavier grades because those refineries have already invested in the additional complexity required to refine them.

The rapid increase in U.S. domestic production in the early 2010s increased domestic light, sweet crude oil production. Light, sweet grades of crude oil traditionally benefit from a price premium in the global crude oil market because they yield high amounts of profitable petroleum products from less complex refining processes.

Some U.S. refiners on the Gulf Coast have invested in expanding their light, sweet crude oil processing capacity. However, for many refiners, particularly in the Midwest and along the Gulf Coast, refining discounted heavy, sour crude oil grades remains more profitable."

earlier you said it wasn’t happening.

From now on, I will refer to Bowsite oil experts, instead of the CEOs of oil companies, and the EIA

No one said it wasn't happening. And yes, it's because of economics. It's always because of economics. If it made economic sense to do something different, we would.

Kinda why we don't power all of our homes with solar. Or drive cars powered by hydrogen. I mean, if we cut all oil usage to zero right now, we wouldn't have to worry about any imports which would be great by your logic. However, it would be an absolute disaster economically.

President Biden has released another historic budget, proposing record high tax increases to fund massive increases in spending. While he talks about fiscal responsibility, the President is calling for more spending and higher taxes than any other in our history.

Under his budget, the total amount of taxes Americans pay every year would nearly double, Increasing from $4.4 trillion in 2023 to $8.6 trillion in 2034, a 95% increase. At the same time, spending would soar, increasing from $6.1 trillion in 2023 to $10.3 trillion in 2034, an increase of 70%.

The President is proposing $4.9 trillion in tax increases, the largest tax increase ever proposed. Under his budget, taxes as a share of the economy would average 19.7% of GDP, well above the 50-year average of 17.3%. Over the next ten years, taxes would increase to the highest extended levels in our nation’s history, climbing above 20% of GDP four years in a row, a level reached only once before in World War II.

Individual taxes would increase to 10.2% of GDP, 28% higher than the 50-year average of 8.0%, and a level reached only once before since the income tax began in 1913. Corporate taxes would increase to 2.4% of GDP by 2026, a 50% increase over 2023 and the highest level since 1979.

The President says he is only raising taxes on big corporations and the wealthy. But he is actually proposing 75 separate tax increases which would hit millions of individual taxpayers, small businesses, and working families. The Treasury Department’s explanation of the tax increases is 256 pages long, with a revenue table listing all the tax increases 10 pages long. Cont at link..l

Now there have been decades of liberal anti-fossil fuel policies? They must have been strong back in 1977 when the last major refinery was built in the U.S. It is amazing the length that some people will go to spin a yarn to prop up a misconception rather than just realize they are wrong.

Attached is a link regarding US oil refineries. One thing to note that, as explained multiple times above, while there have been no large new refineries built in the U.S. in almost 50 years, the production capacity of existing refineries has been massively expanded since they have come on line.

———————

It is so disingenuous of Biden to imply that an increase in taxes to big corporations happens in a vacuum. As stated above, it is all about economics, and to some degree those tax increases will be passed down throughout the socio-economic rungs of our society. They are a thinly-veiled indirect tax on all consumers.

please explain to me what kind of oil is being imported and why.

And yes, there were liberals against Oil in the 70s also

Heavier crudes typically, as the lighter crudes being produced domestically from the fracking boom are a relatively new phenomena. Which is why we export about 4 mln barrels of crude oil per day. Again, at the end of the day, the economics make much more sense to import the crude than to sink a bunch of CAPEX into developing refining capacity to deal with more of the lighter stuff here.

At the end of the day both buyers an sellers are going to aim to get the best price they can, and oil is a globally traded commodity. A healthy free market where people are free to trade globally is the best way to ensure the lowest prices, so it's not even clear what you're upset about Altitude.

It's been a good policy because now we are sitting on some of the largest reserves of the best oil in the world. It's a finite resource that is only going to get more valuable. Wouldn't you rather have more of it, now, instead of burning thru it decades ago?

It’s good to know we have enough refineries for the next few years.

And we won’t increase our population and demand past current capacity.

I feel much better now.

As stated, we import cheap, low-grade oil because we have the infrastructure to refine it. We do that because it is the least expensive way to provide gasoline to US consumers.

“And yes, there were liberals against Oil in the 70s also.”

Moving the goal posts I see. Were there liberal anti-fossil fuel policies in the US which were constraining refinery development/investment in the 1970’s? The answer is “no, there was not”. Time to set aside your bias if you actually want to understand.

“It’s good to know we have enough refineries for the next few years.”

That is hilarious. There hasn’t been a significant refinery built in the U.S. since 1977 and yet our refining capacity has grown immensely since that point in time. But you believe that our existing refineries will somehow cease to be functional after just a few more years? They are not perishable.

I do love it so. Especially from the experts

Howie Carr on his website compiled a list in Massachusetts;

Freebies c/o Howie Carr Here’s the list of free benefits the state provides for the thousands of illegal aliens in the “migrant shelters.” This all comes from sources, because the state refuses to provide information as mandated under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).

GENERAL WELFARE COSTS FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS: Free hotel rooms at $150+ a day. Three meals a day at $64 per person per diem. Free on-site medical & dental services (including condoms). Special diet for Ramadan. Free same-day dry cleaning w/free pick up & delivery. Free housekeeping twice a week. Free cell phones, chargers/charging ports. Free tablets, IPads. Free clothing, new & used. Everyone got new free winter coat, gloves and shoes. Free toiletries (tooth paste, deodorant, special “ethnic” shampoos, skin cream, aspirin, tooth brushes, feminine products).

“FOR THE CHILDREN”: Free diapers, wipes, diaper pails, cribs, bassinets, playpens, baby bottles, baby formulas, free car seats, free new mother bags, playrooms for young illegals w/free toys & books which must be replaced often because of destruction.

SUNDRY FREE STUFF & SERVICES: Free tax preparation at $350 per family. Even though next to none work, all will get big returns via “child tax credit.” Free work-permit attorney. Free asylum attorney. Free MassHealth (Medicaid) coverage. Free vaccination clinics. Free WIC (Women, infants, children) cards, $400-800 a month on top of 3 free meals a day. Free DTA (Dept. of Transitional Assistance) welfare checks… “family” of 4 pockets $2880 a month. Free Uber/Lyft to schools, grocery stores, doctors’ appts., hospital, job interviews, entertainment. Free public transportation, but nobody takes a bus when they can get a free Uber. Free transportation to church, via either Uber or church provided. Holiday parties. Movie nights in hotel.

Free postage stamps, envelopes. Free Notary service. Free English as a Second Language (ESL) classes. 24/7 security. School choice transportation via Uber or buses, big $$$, plus overwhelmed local school systems. Flood of 911 calls, first responders overwhelmed answering domestic disturbances, drugs, alcohol and general entitled Third World nonsense calls.

IF THE ILLEGALS EVER DECIDE TO LEAVE ON MOVING DAY THEY GET: $30,000 in “rental assistance” over 2 years from state’s HomeBase program. Free UHaul & boxes. Free luggage on moving day. Free new beds for all “family” that moved into new flophouse. Delivered free of charge. Free furniture up to 10 items (couch, tables, end tables, rugs, etc.). A free move-in package (plates, towels, cutlery, etc.) Up to $900. Delivered free.

WELFARE WORKERS: A free assigned case manager to find the freeloader a free place to stay & negotiate rent/lease. Case managers to make sure the welfare keeps coming (DTA, WIC, MassHealth & SSI for the “disabled”). “Stabilization manager” – case worker for 2 years after leaving the flophouse. Free case workers for “early childhood intervention.” DCF (Dept. of Children & Families) for those “struggling with parenting.” Free “life coaches” from DCF.

At the time there was a lot of talk about a huge expansion at Motiva coming up. In the future. Basically adding another 325 MBD capacity which would have doubled Motiva’s output. If I am not mistaken this was finished in 2012.

I know flint hills in the upper Midwest has done some pretty serious upgrades as well in the last 10 years or less.

bUt We HaVen’T bUiLt NeW ReFiNeRiEs!!

Don’t foget the ones we have are approaching their “best by” date.

Let’s move the conversation to the macro view

We’ve of course have been talking about the micro level, US permits and the like.

but at macro levels. Dozens of times the presidents bumbling around in foreign politics, has led to shortages. regime change, and installing puppet dictators has bit us in the ass numerous times in regards to fuel prices.

And there are many other examples of how politicians and their policies have impacted the world oil market.

You act like it’s this mysterious, voodoo, nebulous entity, acting on its own. that humans playing games have no impact.

CNN polled the chief executive officers of the leading oil and fossil fuel energy companies, and here is what their anonymous replies were

Another 11% pointed to environmental, social and governance (ESG) issues. The ESG movement has led many investors to shy away from fossil fuel companies in favor of clean energy ones.

About 15% of executives said "other" factors were to blame, including personnel shortages and supply-chain problems.

'Vilification' of the oil industry

Still, multiple executives surveyed expressed significant concern about regulations and rhetoric on the industry coming from the federal government as well as individual states such as Colorado.

"The message from the White House, Capitol Hill and Wall Street has been that oil and gas is a dying industry and one that needs to be abandoned," one survey respondent said. That executive pointed to "serious workforce issues" that are being driven in part by the "vilification" of the oil-and-gas industry.

"Regulation is significantly hurting and hampering US energy production," another executive said. They cited E.S.G. primarily, and if you’re in company, leadership or management, you know what a E.S.G. survey is, and how equity firms and groups in control of most of the capital these days do not invest unless your E.S.G. score is very high.

companies like black rock have openly stated E.S.G. is how they make their business decisions And in case you’ve been living under a rock. this whole E.S.G. nonsense started with Democrats do a little more reading gentleman.

Now admit your wrong and let’s move on :>)))

ONLY 6% BLAME GOVERNMENT REGULATION

"Following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the US price of regular gasoline hit a record high of $4.33 a gallon. Although environmental policies are often blamed for high energy costs, oil executives do not seem to view them as the central factor here. Just 6% of executives polled by the Dallas Fed pointed to government regulations as the primary reason publicly-traded oil companies are restraining production growth."

Furthermore, you still haven't explained what government policy or regulation caused all-time record oil production in the US in 2023.

With Industries like Oil and any big capital intensive industry. You don’t typically see the results for 10 to 20 years.

and then it’s too late to blame who caused it. This current situation will not be happening 10 to 20 years from now.

Because everything is hunky-dory right now, doesn’t mean squat. unless you think the country is not going to need fossil fuels in 20 years.

We are not convincing each other, so let’s just agree that you are wrong and I am right :>))))

About 15% of executives said "other" factors were to blame, including personnel shortages and supply-chain problems.

It's really funny that you cite those survey results, Altitude. They are years old as GG points out, and they come from the quarterly Dallas Fed survey of Oil and Gas executives. The survey questions vary quarter to quarter to reflect hot topics in the industry.

The specific question that was asked of them for which you are citing those survey results was "Which of the following is the primary reason that publicly traded oil producers are restraining growth despite high oil prices?" I know that because I cited that survey many times two years ago when I was trying to convince posters on this site that the reason oil and gas companies aren't spending has little to do with government regulations.

Your results are spot on for those categories. I find it funny because you completely left out the #1 survey response that was given, which is what I was arguing at the time. The chart above is the full results of the survey, and it can be found at the linked site.

The fact is; US consumers have lost 1/5th of their purchasing power since 2020. Thats a chunk….1/5th of all of your savings and assets- gone.

From the ( objective) Austrian economists at the Mises Institute, article “Price Inflation Accelerates for Second Month as Biden Blames "Greed"” at link (Excerpt) In recent months, supporters of the current regime have repeatedly claimed that inflation is "falling" or otherwise rapidly disappearing. Paul Krugman has been one of the most vocal cheerleaders claiming the problem of price inflation is "solved." The February numbers, however, have proven troublesome for this narrative because it is becoming increasingly clear that price inflation is not, in fact, rapidly disappearing. Rather, the month-to-month numbers suggest price inflation is growing.

Moreover, cumulative price inflation over the past four years has been enormous. The CPI increased by 19.9 percent from February 2020 to February 2024. In other words, assuming the CPI is correct—and isn't low-balling the real extent of price inflation—the dollar has lost one-fifth of its value in just four years. This has been devastating for many savers and for those on fixed income.

That's not at all what that means. Depending on your assets and savings, they very likely will mirror inflation. The returns on my savings and assets far outpaced inflation during that time period.

the dollar has lost one-fifth of its value in just four years

A very simplistic and incomplete view of inflation. A more complete view of "purchasing power" would be looking at real wages IMO, which have not decreased by 20% since 2020.

Your analysis ignores wage gains, so your fact isn’t exactly that. Inflation has reduced the purchasing power of a dollar by roughly 1/5 since 2020, but wage gains have largely offset that for most people (e.g. if each dollar is worth 20% less but consumers are getting 20% more dollars, they come out roughly even). This is often referred to as “consumer buying power”. That is why the article you cited said the impact to savers and those on fixed incomes were most significantly impacted as they do not receive the benefit of wage inflation.

The attached link demonstrates this graphically. What is most notable is that inflation exceeded wage gains during most of 2021-2022 which is when most everyone was feeling the impact of inflation, but that has largely corrected.

The article did correctly illustrate that Biden is full of $#!+ in his assessment of the economy.

Yeah right, if ya believe that then I have some ocean front property in AZ for sell.

Yearly? Probably no one. But the 20% number being quoted for inflation isn't a yearly number. To average out to 20% increase over ~3 years, you'd need to average roughly 6%/year. Which is pretty close to what the average wage growth of the economy has been since 2020. Just because you aren't getting it doesn't mean other people aren't. For the last year you can see we're starting to see real wage growth - wage growth minus inflation - which we didn't have for two years.

The data in the article was from the start of COVID lockdowns (1Q20) to present, so basically 4 years. To get 20% a wage gain over that period you would need to receive a ~4.7% raise each year over those 4 years.

I know I haven’t. My wage gains have come in at 1% since 2020. The people I know in the construction world have not seen the 5% that is talked about.

Wish my wife and my income was keeping up with inflation, but I guess we're the smucks bringing down the avg. My last raise was 3%, BUT since health ins. cost went up, my company also increased withholding to help pay for that. So much for a raise. Wife just got off of 3 months of 1 day/week furlow. Thankfully she wasn't laid off in the last round of layoffs, at the time furlow started. And she hasn't had a raise in two years. She was planning to retire this year, BUT since the cost of everything is going up so quickly, we don't see that it's possible without having to worry about running out of money in the end.  

No, 770k is the sample size of the dataset Payscale used to compile their report.

US CPI growth in 2023 was 3.4%. Not hard to look up, although that is harder than just making up a number.

Comparing back 12 months is one thing. But a bad 12 months stacked on top of previous bad 12 months, etc is the real cost killer.

I'm baffled how you guys draw your conclusions. Inflation was somewhere around 3.5% in 2023. The study suggests wages rose 5.5%. This means on average workers real wages rose 2%. This aligns with the broader Fed data.

“Credit card and auto loan transitions into delinquency are still rising above pre-pandemic levels,” said Wilbert van der Klaauw, economic research advisor at the New York Fed. “This signals increased financial stress, especially among younger and lower-income households.”

From the same article: Transportation increased 28.1%, Food 23.4%, and Housing 19.8%.

Transportation, food, and housing are the three categories that have risen the most and account for almost a 24% increase in cost to live. For the wages of a family bringing in $50k a year to keep up they would have had to increase their wages of $12k or more. That's a huge jump in pay for workers in that economic class and I sincerely hope they all got that as suggested in this thread.

https://www.statista.com/chart/31264/change-in-us-consumer-prices-by-expenditure-category/#:~:text=As%20of%20October%202023%2C%20the,before%20the%20Covid%2D19%20pandemic.

Yes, I was around in late 70s and early 80s. Bought my first house during that time. But it just seems worse this time around and the majority of people apparently think so too. That’s reflected in the polling data .

People can claim that things are working and getting better all day long but the people just aren’t seeing it or feeling it

Perhaps it feels very different this time because things have been so good for so long (at least from an inflation perspective). Mind you, low inflation isn't always great. Healthy inflation can signal a healthy economy with healthy demand. Given the current inflation levels and looking at other economic health factors - GDP, employment, etc - that "feels" like where things currently are.

It doesn't mean that pain hasn't accumulated due to the year or two of elevated inflation levels that have now largely subsided. It's clear that the inflation pain seems to be at the forefront of most people's minds.

While not necessarily by "economic strata," this data break down by the Fed is probably pretty close. I don't see any major deltas between categories. Visit the link to see the categories (which include things like Services, College Grads, Hourly Workers, etc).

If you’re making 50,000 a year with a 5% increase might be able to get a steak dinner for your family a couple times a month

Sure some of us have outpaced inflation through strategic investing…but that is not the bulk of Americans. Low income and Seniors have been hit hard. Democrat policy has literally sucked 1/5th of their purchasing power since 2020–no surprise the hypocrisy and arrogance of ‘Let Them eat Cake’ Democrats.

Democrat politicians want to raise taxes as much as 40% in the latest from Bidens puppetmasters…so that they can spend even more on idiotic policy. This will hammer the avg American. It shocks me some here still don’t see how bad the Dem party has become…or the fact many Reps side with the Dems forming a uniparty to stay in power. The proposed tax to Corps will just get passed through to consumers making inflation worse….a stealth tax to all of us…but still many aren’t smart enough to see through that guise. Sad.

Nobody’s shrugging it off. Only highlighting that it is a tiny part of the story. Do you also bemoan the fact that milk isn’t 5 cents a gallon anymore?

Democrat policy has literally sucked 1/5th of their purchasing power since 2020

Is there anything in your life the government isn’t responsible for, Beendare? Just curious, because you seem to live in a world where the free market has zero power and everything is the result something the government did. Also, is the Fed dual mandate now classified as Dem policy??

Also saw the latest PCE read was under 3%.

But they seem to forget that’s ON TOP of the 20% it’s went up over Biden’s time in office

If that was actually true, people would pay greater attention to it. As explained above, the U.S. dollar lost that level of purchasing power due to inflation, but by and large households did not due to wage gains.

“But they seem to forget that’s ON TOP of the 20% it’s went up over Biden’s time in office.”

Like many here seem to forget that Trump signed the CARES Act which started the stimulus-driven inflation in the first place. That is not to excuse Biden’s incompetence in handling the economy, just to highlight that selective memory exists on both sides of the debate.

Not exactly. Biden took office in Jan of 2021. Inflation from that date to today has averaged 4.62% per year, for a total cumulative gain of 14.52% today. And, yes, that includes food and fuel. That is not an endorsement for Biden, just the facts.

The question that no one has answered yet is, what could possibly cause prices to go back to pre-pandemic levels other than an extended recession? Is that what some of you are hoping for?

But they seem to forget that’s ON TOP of the 20% it’s went up over Biden’s time in office

You know it’s gone up 260% since Reagan was president. Damnit trickle down!!

(That is sarcasm btw)

The problem- and then the response we get

Buy votes by paying student loans- its only a couple billion dollars

Inflation way up- no big deal my investments are up

Illegal immigration off the charts...along with the drugs and crime that comes with it- I haven't got bonked on the head yet-so no problem

Dress wearing Military more concerned with DEI than protecting our country- isn't that cute

Every single cabinet position in the current admin is an unqualified buffoon- its immaterial

Foreign policy a total disaster- ugh, I'm too old to go to war

The entire countries Judicial System is a mess with no bail- criminals running free- I told you, I haven't been hit over the head yet

Dyed in the wool Dems will never get it. The rep party is shot too. What we need in the US is; 1) a more informed voter base....critical thinkers that can evaluate policy and spending bills. 2) Term limits- one and done. the power building only takes away from doing what is best for the people 3) More transparency 4) limit lobbying, Dark money and money influence- why is it OK that some can throw hundreds of millions at races and candidates?

If we had a legit gov and DOJ- Biden wouldn't even be our president right now.

Tone?? lol I’ve never been in one meeting at work where we discussed “tone” when deciding how to invest our capital.

…and policy

And policy has to have teeth to matter. Congress has done nothing and despite the overreach of the three letter agencies, no one really takes them seriously as all it takes is an administration change for anything that’s put into place to be undone.

You should really start focusing on what matters for the economy, Beendare. And it ain’t the guy in the White House.

Link is to a 7 minute compilation someone put together on Twitter of multiple democrats on video all calling to defund the police….pretty emphatic too.

He is literally using the Nazi playbook that needs a bad guy tapping into innate jealousies. Instead of Jews its the successful Americans.

This is how ridiculous the Biden Dem policy is; In 2021 the top 10% of taxpayers paid 75.8% of the total income tax….but he wants them to pay more.

.

"Whatever you call it - doom spending, soft saving, YOLOing, “you only live once”- the coronavirus pandemic has changed the way Americans spend money. They are saving less but vacationing more, splurging on concerts and sporting events, and booking lavish trips years in advance. Spending on international travel and live entertainment surged roughly 30 percent last year, five times the rate of overall spending growth. Meanwhile, the personal savings rate is at lows not seen since the Great Recession.

And the spending spree has continued into 2024. Consumers spent $145.5 billion more in February than they did the month before - much of that on services - fueling the biggest monthly increase in more than a year, according to data from the Bureau of Economic Analysis released Friday. Meanwhile, the personal savings rate fell to 3.6 percent, from 4.1 percent the previous month."

People appear to be under the impression that government will bail them out. That’s a major reason behind the outcry behind college loan forgiveness.

But with the national debt rapidly approaching 35 Trillion dollars I don’t think that’s a feasible long term plan.

People appear to be under the impression that government will bail them out. That’s a major reason behind the outcry behind college loan forgiveness.

But with the national debt rapidly approaching 35 Trillion dollars I don’t think that’s a feasible long term plan.

People appear to be under the impression that government will bail them out. That’s a major reason behind the outcry behind college loan forgiveness.

But with the national debt rapidly approaching 35 Trillion dollars I don’t think that’s a feasible long term plan.

People appear to be under the impression that government will bail them out. That’s a major reason behind the outcry behind college loan forgiveness.

But with the national debt rapidly approaching 35 Trillion dollars I don’t think that’s a feasible long term plan.

People appear to be under the impression that government will bail them out. That’s a major reason behind the outcry behind college loan forgiveness.

But with the national debt rapidly approaching 35 Trillion dollars I don’t think that’s a feasible long term plan.

I'll venture a guess that you are legally here in this country, otherwise you'd get that snazzy new Iphone for free. ;-)

But with the national debt rapidly approaching 35 Trillion dollars I don’t think that’s a feasible long term plan."

I wonder if they could do some sort of combination of debt relief coupled with savings incentive. Give student debtors an option - "We'll help you with your college debt IF you put some of the money you are not paying back into long-term savings."

In the short term, it would cost some money, but in the long term it might alleviate pressure on the Social Security system. It might also get young people thinking more about long-term financial planning.

On the other hand, simple debt forgiveness with no strings attached will not encourage responsible behavior.

I'm undecided how I feel about it. I believe higher education is important, but the cost has gotten way out of hand. In my college days, I could work in the summers and make enough to pay for my education. I didn't need loans, or help from my parents. That's simply not possible these days for most young people. Something needs to change.