Mathews Inc.
Leopard or Buffalo in Zimbabwe
International
Contributors to this thread:
Ken Moody Safaris 05-Apr-24
Ken Moody Safaris 05-Apr-24
Shug 25-Apr-24
Ken Moody Safaris 26-Apr-24
Nick Muche 26-Apr-24
llamapacker 26-Apr-24
Rossi 26-Apr-24
Ken Moody Safaris 27-Apr-24
Bou'bound 27-Apr-24
Nick Muche 27-Apr-24
Ken Moody Safaris 27-Apr-24
Pat Lefemine 27-Apr-24
Nick Muche 27-Apr-24
llamapacker 27-Apr-24
Groundhunter 27-Apr-24
Nick Muche 28-Apr-24
Ken Moody Safaris 28-Apr-24
tobywon 28-Apr-24
Groundhunter 28-Apr-24
RonP 28-Apr-24
Ken Moody Safaris 28-Apr-24
Ken Moody Safaris 28-Apr-24
Bou’bound 28-Apr-24
BIGHORN 28-Apr-24
Ken Moody Safaris 29-Apr-24
Barty1970 03-May-24
Ollie 07-May-24
njbuck 14-May-24
Ken Moody Safaris 14-May-24
05-Apr-24

Ken Moody Safaris's embedded Photo
Ken Moody Safaris's embedded Photo
14 days minimum booking.

05-Apr-24

Ken Moody Safaris's embedded Photo
Ken Moody Safaris's embedded Photo

From: Shug
25-Apr-24
Ken question… If someone took their leopard in a day or two and decided to go home are they still responsible for 12 days X $1700

26-Apr-24
Yes

From: Nick Muche
26-Apr-24
In that case, why not just call it 24K plus $7,950 trophy fee?

From: llamapacker
26-Apr-24
Ken's pricing is the industry standard structure, at least in Africa. Some people will choose to extend this to a 14 day or more hunt, and it is easy to see the daily rate. Bill

From: Rossi
26-Apr-24
I have been on hunts in Namibia and Zimbabwe where the daily fee varied depending on what the main objective of the day was - dangerous game vs plains game. Once I killed my buffalo, we were strictly hunting plains game, so we were charged at a lower daily fee. I think llama is correct and that this is probably not the norm in Africa, though.

27-Apr-24
The minimum booking is 14 days. You may add days if you wish. The PH is booked for a DG hunt and paid a DG daily rate for the duration of the safari booked by the client. The trackers and staff are paid the same, the camp rate is the same, the government charged fees the same, etc. This is most certainly the industry standard and has always been as such. The PH is not taking a cut in pay because he did his job too well.

From: Bou'bound
27-Apr-24
Makes total sense. How could it be otherwise.

You would not want a reason to motivate anyone involved in the hunt to not go all out early to get the tag filled.

From: Nick Muche
27-Apr-24
That makse sense Ken, thank you for explaining! The flier could read $23,800 with a $7950 trophy fee, additional days are $1700 a day, that may be more clear. I am trying to think of another industry that advertises a daily rate, then gets paid beyond what was required if they client didn't require the extra days, but nothing comes to mind.

27-Apr-24
It is advertised as all African DG hunts outside of SA are…day fee and trophy fee with a minimum day requirement. All hunts everywhere are paid out for the entirety of the hunt regardless of whether or not or at what point you are successful. Brown Bear, Sheep, etc. are all paid in full. The difference is in Africa you don’t pay for the animal if you don’t shoot it and in NA you pay regardless. I’m not sure what’s so difficult to understand. You’re booking a professional hunter, camp staff, and their time. It doesn’t matter at what point in that booked time frame you’re successful, the staff are all getting paid for the time you booked regardless.

From: Pat Lefemine
27-Apr-24
This is like arguing any fee structure. It’s pointless. It’s the outfitter’s right to charge what they feel is a reasonable price considering expenses, gov fees, and the value of the hunt. The market decides whether it’s worth the price. You’re never gonna find a leopard hunt for 10k in 2024. The hunters that book these hunts understand that the experience is always going to fetch a premium.

My leopard hunt in 04 was one of the most incredible adventures I have ever experienced. If you have the means, it’s worth every penny.

From: Nick Muche
27-Apr-24
I guess my point was missed…. Why isn’t it advertised for the exact minimum cost? I do know the answer (daily rate advertisement looks better to a consumer than actual obligated amount), anyhow…

From: llamapacker
27-Apr-24
Nick - it really isn't just an advertising gimmick. Government fees, taxes, etc, are calculated differently on daily rates versus trophy fees, etc. And whether you like the structure or not, it is the standard way to price these hunts in Zimbabwe. If you are going to compare Ken's hunts to others, you need to know each of these rates. You will notice on his Buffalo hunt ad, you can book for either 7 or 10 days (and I'm sure pretty much anything over 7 days.). Most people will plan to hunt other species as well, depending on how long they plan the trip. If you've ever flown to Africa, you simply don't just call it good after a few days and go home when you are lucky enough to take the main trophy early. The hunt is so much more than one animal, and there is plenty of other things to do. While not applicable to Zimbabwe hunts, in Tanzania you buy a hunting license (payable to the government) based on a certain number of days, and they don't care if you hunt 1 day or all of them. You still pay for a specific license, and the species available to hunt varies with the length of license you buy. I am heading back to Zimbabwe in November for another buffalo hunt (not with Ken) but will almost certainly pursue other animals as well. I think this is my 15th trip, and far from my last, God willing. Bill

From: Groundhunter
27-Apr-24
Ken, you own a Heym rifle. I just saw a Mark Sullivan double, work of art.... your info here is always solid

From: Nick Muche
28-Apr-24
No… it is an advertisement gimmick. That’s why a well traveled hunter asked, and another keeps bringing it up.

28-Apr-24
Actually, I own a Merkel .470 Nitro which is German like the Heym, and has dropped many a buffalo bull.

28-Apr-24
Everyone that hunts African countries knows the price structure. It may seem odd to us in NA.

But when booking the question is;

what are your daily rates and trophy fees. Leopard hunts are usually booked as 14 days. It’s generally understood. A leopard hunt is 14 days. So a hunter needs the other info. Daily rates and trophy fee.

Different concessions cost the operator more than others. They are auctioned off by the government. and some areas bring more than others. Based usually on specific game quality and quantity.

In Zimbabwe. The trophy fee is primarily the governments cut.

An outfitter may only get a quota of 4 leopard per season. So need to pay for the concession “leasing” from the government. And all the overhead.

They are definitely not getting rich for all the work.

From: tobywon
28-Apr-24
I had the same question as Shug when I first read the advertisement. I get what Nick is saying. His point is being missed. He’s not questioning fees, fee structure, or anything like that. He’s just saying why not put total hunt cost down along with other fees to make it perfectly clear and avoid initial confusion? Like this:

$23,800 (1,700/day), $7,950 trophy fee, plus govt fees. Leopard Safari 14 days.

From: Groundhunter
28-Apr-24
Merkel are beautiful

From: RonP
28-Apr-24
is someone really researching this level of hunt thinking - if i kill a leopard the first day, i only pay $9650 or $7200 for a buffalo? that is less than most elk hunts and many deer hunts.

if the outfitter booked two 14-day leopard hunts a month, that could potentially leave 26 days where they are idle and not being paid. i suppose a government employee or someone that has never owned or managed a business would think that.

carry on.

28-Apr-24
There’s no confusion to anyone with a calculator. Determine how many days you want to hunt and multiply. Most guys book above the minimum days required for leopard and buffalo. 18 to 21 days sometimes. It’s not calculus. Everything is Africa is itemized so you know what you’re paying for. Day fees include PH, accommodations, meals, drinks, skinning/caping. Sometimes airport transfers are included and sometimes not as different sized vehicles are used based on party size but that is also provided in the contract. Government fees are also listed separately as they vary based on what’s bagged. Excluded items such as gratuities, side trips, etc. are also provided. Everything is listed separately so there is no confusion. This is the simplest thing in the world and it baffles me that anyone could possibly be confused by $1700 per day x number of days hunted.

28-Apr-24

Ken Moody Safaris's embedded Photo
Ken Moody Safaris's embedded Photo
Here you go. Added the ‘minimum’ days required to book.

From: Bou’bound
28-Apr-24
Ken you should guide for dead horses. There are guys that love to beat those things.

From: BIGHORN
28-Apr-24
Ken, Just wondering about your success rate on Leopards. I spent three weeks in Namibia and didn't get a Leopard. They only went in during light hours and spent half the night and walked out again. I wanted them to go in during the night and hunt the morning hours,. The last day they agreed to do as I requested and when we got to the blind my guide asked me to wait outside while he set things up inside. He came out and said that there was a female at the bait, but he was hoping that she would attract a big male. It was gone when I got into the blind but on the way out, he picked up the video camera and when we got back to the ranch, he looked at it and it was the big male that I was after. Sorry just doesn't cut it. What about the bait? What do you use and how much for each bait animal? Merle

29-Apr-24
Namibia generally has the less expensive leopard hunts but success rates are not the highest. I have no knowledge of who you hunted with and will not speculate BUT, I will let you in on an unseemly practice that does occur in our industry…Overselling leopard hunts…Some unscrupulous operators will get three or four permits to hunt leopard and sell six or eight leopard hunts, gambling that maybe half the guys will score. They don’t want to eat the permit at the end of the season and, in some cases, will ensure that you do not get your cat so that they have a permit available for an incoming client. The company makes its money on the daily rate as the govt gets the lion’s share of the trophy fee so they are getting paid each day you’re in camp regardless of whether you are successful or not. If something as you described begins to happen, there’s a good chance that they don’t want to kill a cat with you. I am certainly not saying it occurred in this instance but it sounds odd to me that they didn’t maximize your chances.

In Zim the success rate is around 90% but I do have an area in Zambia that is 100%. It’s damned expensive and I don’t advertise it unless I have a guy that basically wants to be 99% sure he gets his cat but these Zambian leopard are on the baits like clockwork. Regarding baits it’s normally impala. If you’re asking how much $ for the baits, it’s $2500 for five days of pre baiting plus replenishing baits at a reduced fee for impala.

From: Barty1970
03-May-24
And of course, we all know that each of those African countries which allow any and all types of hunting for any and all legal quarry species, both DG and plains game, all have governments covering pretty much the political spectrum. As I'm sure Ken can attest, certain governments in certain countries can and will make much higher charges for the outfitter's permits and licences, some that would make the charge of the proverbial wounded buffalo look positively tame by comparison! So it is only right and proper that potential clients are made fully aware from the get-go of any and all fees and charges which the outfitter will need to cover before the hunt is booked and confirmed.

From: Ollie
07-May-24
I would love to hunt Cape Buffalo but cannot handle the draw weight needed. What do you recommend for minimum draw weight for a traditional bow shooting heavy carbon arrows with very sharp two blade single bevel heads?

From: njbuck
14-May-24
Ken, are your hunts at night? If they are, would one have to pay additional daily rates for plains game or those come on a trophy fee basis?

14-May-24
Depending on the trad bow, 75 lbs with a 1000 grain arrow or better can work….yes, leopard are generally hunted at night and anything else hunted is on a trophy fee basis. The one daily rate covers all of it.

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