Bowsite.com

for those interested...this might be the one of the most fair and balanced pieces ive read on the subject.

"Visceral Reactions To Transgendered Athlete Winning Girls 200 Meters Title At Oregon State Meet Should Force OSAA To Revisit Policy"

"Trans athletes such as Gallagher lining up against cisgender girls is not level. The male sex hormone testosterone, which increases muscle mass and bone mass, is an undeniable advantage that post-pubescent teenage boys hold over most girls."

"Are we supposed to believe that someone who started competing in track and field two months ago, who is male in every way besides identified gender, is the fastest girl to ever come out of Portland, Oregon?"

i think the pendulum has already started its swing back. a year or two ago...many people took the opinion that "this is never going to affect me or my child...so i'll just keep my head down...and my mouth shut." no that it is happening with more and more frequency...and people are realizing that yes...it can and actually does happen more often that what people originally thought...keeping ones head down and mouth shut is no longer an option.

the same is true for people who lose a loved one as the result of someone being in this country illegally. eventually it reaches a point of critical mass...people will have had enough...and needed change will happen.

men are beating women at being women ....

the trans "movement" is not a "conspiracy theory"...but it is most definitely a conspiracy. a very well orchestrated one at that.

there is a difference.

Both were in HS sports including soccer, track and Cross Country, etc. agree the biological male in biological women's sports situation is screwed up. That said, my son works out with several women in Judo/Ju-Jitsu that can kick the average man's butt.

M to F just comes with too many things that ultimately impact performance and allow a low-mid-level male to suddenly be an upper-level women's/girls' competitor.

This is not fair to female competitors.

That said, given the massive challenge of going through a transition, the line that people are doing this to be better in sports is very weak. Frankly, that's a political "get mad" line. While I'm sure some example somewhere could be found, the reality just doesnt add up.

In the end, I think that changes will happen. It's new enough to deal with now that people are led by politics and opinions—despite most in the performance world being able to lay down nuanced and solid opinions. Nuance doesn't work anymore. People want clicks and to be on the "right" side, which may mean comments or approaches based on right—or left-wing talking points. And that sucks, because it takes most rational answers off the table.

In this context, M-F trans athletes, regrettably for them as humans, either need their own category OR to compete with males.

what "transition?"

according to the article...no "transition" is necessary...at least in oregon. it would appear in this case..."identify" is all that is necessary.

And any “transitioning” of an innocent child before puberty should be a considered a serious criminal offence!!

They should get the mental help they need not be subjected to chemical and physical mutilation, and experimentation.

I’ll wait.

Hmmm, whose word to take. The hunting outfitter in Canada or the vast majority of medical and health professionals in the developed world...damn, that's a tough one...

no...but i can tell you some that they have that you dont.

in my opinion...that is how the vast majority of americans (including many in the medical community) feel...if of course they were allowed to say so confidentially.

those who think otherwise are a very...very...very vocal minority.

LOL says the man who has started dozens of trans-related threads (and injects trans related content into threads that aren't trans related) on a bowhunting forum. Haven't come across someone nearly as vocal on the topic as you, Ricky.

lol...says the man who claimed "I’m done posting on sex and gender"...not to mention is one of the most prolific posters of non-bowhunting related posts on the site.

The same type of medical and health professionals told us : It was impossible for covid to come from a lab there is no gain of function research and we didn't fund it. Wear a mask Two weeks to stop the spread You can safely protest george floyd and not worry about covid. Natural immunity is false Sorry, the medical professionals blew all their credibility with Covid.

I've said it multiple times. No, I don't believe males should compete with females. My thoughts echo Will's.

Nuance matters. But if I'm a moron for recognizing nuance, I'm cool with that.

i dont think youre a moron...but i also dont think there is much nuance.

in my mind...a person is welcome to "identify" as anything they want...just dont expect everyone else to take part in your delusion...or welcome you in spaces reserved for the opposite sex...especially by law or fiat.

Cite your source. Vast majority means 8 to 9 out of 10. Sorry. Not that many agree...

Never seen anyone say it’s impossible. Saw people say it’s unlikely it originated in a lab. The consensus still seems to be it was naturally created. That also doesn’t mean it couldn’t have spread through a lab leak.

“there is no gain of function research”

Who said there is no gain of function research? It’s done all the time.

“Wear a mask”

And? No one ever said a mask was going to stop the spread of COVID. It was about slowing it. Some masks are more effective than others at doing so.

“Two weeks to stop the spread”

It was never two weeks to stop the thread. It was two weeks to slow the spread. Regardless, it’s also pretty easy to arm chair quarterback in hindsight decisions made in the midst of dealing with a new and novel virus. That doesn’t mean the preventative measures that we were being asked to do were “wrong.”

“Natural immunity is false”

Who has said that? I’ve never heard that come out of the mouth of anyone. What I heard was natural immunity carries more risk with it than vaccine acquired immunity.

I think it’s pretty clear from Mint’s post that despite listening to what the medical professionals are saying, too many people either don’t understand it or completely misinterpret it.

“A total of 1323 European internists responded to the survey of which 57% were women, mostly young or middle-aged (78%), and practicing in public general medicine services (74.5%). The majority (79%) recognized that sex and gender are not interchangeable terms“

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9352607/

In terms of within the US, please show me one major healthcare or medical association or institution that doesn’t draw a distinction between a person’s sex and their gender.

Show me the quote where he said gain of function research didn’t exist in Wuhan or anywhere for that matter (and not a quote where he said they didn’t fund it).

You want to try drycreek? Show me a quote where Fauci said “there was no gain of function research” like Mint claimed (presumably at Wuhan, but I’ll take any lab), not a quote about what was or wasn’t funded.

And if he knew they were doing gain of function research then why did he continue to provide funding?

It seems to all come down to how you define gain of function (GOF) research, which is a pretty subjective term. Funding continued because they didn’t feel the research being funded - given to Ecohealth - wasn’t gain of function. The previous threshold to meet the GOF ban excluded testing on naturally occurring viruses that wasn’t reasonably expected to result in increases to transmissibility or pathogenicity. Regardless, even if you want to take the other side and say it did qualify as gain of function research, it has nothing to do with the actual COVID-19 outbreak, so I struggle to see the relevance. Again, he’s clearly of a different opinion as to whether it was GOF as are plenty of other members of the scientific community.

In short, the whole Fauci lied thing IMO is nothing but people are grasping at straws for a gotcha moment over something that had nothing to do with the pandemic, namely research that the scientific community is split over whether it qualified as GOF.

“dr Robert Redfield the CDC director at the time didn’t seem to have any reservations that it was GOF”

That what was gain of function? I’ve never seen any comments from him addressing the Ecohealth work that was the subject of Fauci lying. Regarding COVID-19 being the result of GOF work, what evidence has he put forward?

“Several other virologists didn’t seem to either”

They didn’t seem to what?

youre right. the "bigger issue" isnt about sports at all. its about being forced...by law or fiat...to take part in anothers delusion. sports are just one window into the situation.

"According to the Washington State Office of Superintendent of Public Instruction, or OSPI, public schools must allow all students to participate in physical education and athletics that correspond to their gender identity."

to my knowledge...washington state doesnt have any medical requirements or any "transition" at all. all that is required is that one "identifies" as a certain gender.

It’s delusional, and they want society to accept their delusion. That’s not going to work in the long run

One day all this nonsense will be reversed.

yes…good for her but bad for the taxpayers of that school district as it is them who will ultimately pay.

if the administration who fired her was held personally responsible…this stuff would change quickly.

So with their, and your, professional logic, a “woman” can get a “man” pregnant!! And the baby is of undetermined “gender” until he/she decides what gender they would like to be, and it can be done as early as 5-6 yrs old. And can be changed back and forth, woman to man, gender fluid, or even just be non binary, no gender at all. That’s how bloody stupid you and them are!

They also want teachers and therapists to only affirm kids gender dysphoria, keep it secret from their parents. Make it illegal to encourage youth to wait and see if they feel differently in a year or two. They want Christian Pastors charged for hate crimes for even questioning a confused youth about their gender and quoting the Bible. Yes that’s illegal in Canada, a law enacted by gender professionals.

They want innocent kids on powerful, hormone blocking drugs with, unknown side effects, surgically mutilate them. The crazy list goes on and on and all they need is clueless people like you to simply show your respect and support of the whole Evil, Leftist, Marxist gender ideology movement. The “professionals” will take care of all the Evil details themselves and silence the ones that don’t agree.

correct.

we can "respect, tolerate, and support transgender people" in the same way we should any other mentally ill person. thats completely different from being required...by law or fiat...to "affirm" or participate in said mental illness.

And again, I’ll turn to the health professionals of the world when appropriate for the best way to do that. But I know you don’t care about what they have to say, Ricky - you still keep calling transgenderism a mental illness even though they’ve unequivocally said it isn’t. Best to get your advice from politicians, amiright?

no...you are not right.

yeah i know...you keep saying there is a difference between "transgenderism" and "gender dysphoria" but an honest person knows it is a distinction without a difference. i dont need a politician to tell me that. the critical thinking process spells it out rather clearly.

"The American Psychiatric Association stated that gender nonconformity is not the same thing as gender dysphoria, and that "gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition."

what is "gender dysphoria?" (see link)

"The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition, Text Revision (DSM-5-TR)1 provides for one overarching diagnosis of gender dysphoria with separate specific criteria for children and for adolescents and adults.

The DSM-5-TR defines gender dysphoria in adolescents and adults as a marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and their assigned gender, lasting at least 6 months, as manifested by at least two of the following:

A marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and primary and/or secondary sex characteristics (or in young adolescents, the anticipated secondary sex characteristics)

A strong desire to be rid of one’s primary and/or secondary sex characteristics because of a marked incongruence with one’s experienced/expressed gender (or in young adolescents, a desire to prevent the development of the anticipated secondary sex characteristics)

A strong desire for the primary and/or secondary sex characteristics of the other gender

A strong desire to be of the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender)'

A strong desire to be treated as the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender)

A strong conviction that one has the typical feelings and reactions of the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender)

who in the hell would go through the process of attempting "transition" if there wasnt "significant distress associated with the condition." that argument is nonsensical.

feel free to dance on the head of that pin if you want...but you and i both know it is intellectually dishonest.

"The American Psychiatric Association stated that gender nonconformity is not the same thing as gender dysphoria, and that "gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder."

Again, not sure how it can be stated any clearer. The disorder is not the feelings of gender nonconformity. The disorder is the stress associated with feeling this way. In short, it's okay to feel this way, it's not okay to feel bad about it. "The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition." You conveniently left the last part out of the DSM definition. The DSM specifically says "In order to meet criteria for the diagnosis, the condition must also be associated with clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning."

You can have all those symptoms, without significant distress or impairment it's not gender dysphoria.

"who in the hell would go through the process of attempting "transition" if there wasnt "significant distress associated with the condition." that argument is nonsensical." Plenty. "Not All Trans People Experience Gender Dysphoria" https://www.gendergp.com/not-all-trans-people-experience-gender-dysphoria/

Here's a question for you, since you want to hold up the American Psychiatric Association as an expert on gender nonconformity and gender dysphoria, what do they have to say about gender nonconformity, gender dysphoria, and how to treat it? Hmmmm...

"The term “transgender” refers to a person whose sex assigned at birth (i.e. the sex assigned at birth, usually based on external genitalia) does not align their gender identity (i.e., one’s psychological sense of their gender). Some people who are transgender will experience “gender dysphoria,” which refers to psychological distress that results from an incongruence between one’s sex assigned at birth and one’s gender identity. Though gender dysphoria often begins in childhood, some people may not experience it until after puberty or much later." Notice how they say "some" and not "all" people who are transgender experience gender dysphoria? "A distinction without a difference". LOL Clearly that's false. Let's move on to recommended course of care...

"Support for people with gender dysphoria may include open-ended exploration of their feelings and experiences of gender identity and expression, without the therapist having any pre-defined gender identity or expression outcome defined as preferable to another. Psychological attempts to force a transgender person to be cisgender (sometimes referred to as gender identity conversion efforts or so-called “gender identity conversion therapy”) are considered unethical and have been linked to adverse mental health outcomes.

Support may also include affirmation in various domains. Social affirmation may include an individual adopting pronouns, names, and various aspects of gender expression that match their gender identity. Legal affirmation may involve changing name and gender markers on various forms of government identification. Medical affirmation may include pubertal suppression for adolescents with gender dysphoria and gender-affirming hormones like estrogen and testosterone for older adolescents and adults. Medical affirmation is not recommended for prepubertal children. Some adults (and less often adolescents) may undergo various aspects of surgical affirmation.

Family and societal rejection of gender identity are some of the strongest predictors of mental health difficulties among people who are transgender. Family and couples’ therapy can be important for creating a supportive environment that will allow a person’s mental health to thrive. Parents of children and adolescents who are transgender may benefit from support groups. Peer support groups for transgender people themselves are often helpful for validating and sharing experiences."

So let's summarize what the APA, that Ricky clearly held up as an expert body, says...gender nonconformity and transgenderism are not the same as gender dysphoria, not all transgender individuals experience gender dysphoria, and the recommended treatments sure use the word "affirm" a lot...

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria

If a sport has separate categories for men and women then it is accepted that there is an inherent advantage for males and for the sake of competition that advantage is eliminated from the women's competition by keeping males out. If there were no categories then almost every sport would be dominated by males age 25-35 years. The same could be said for other category divisions such as body weight. If there were no categories for body weight in say weightlifting then the big guys always win. Weight categories eliminate that advantage (plus get more entrants and give more trophies).

The best example of separating one's "feelings" about trans people and athletics is Caitlyn Jenner, a trans female and past Olympic champion as a male, and Martina Navratilova, a gay woman and champion women's tennis player. Both are accepting of trans people but adamantly against trans women participating in women's sports because they know the competitive advantage exists and will destroy women's sports .

I coached a women's sport for almost 20 years. Now retired. I'm so glad I'm out of it now. The venom spouted from both sides eliminates any rational conversation on the issue. Doughboy is correct. The women will have to solve this by refusing to compete against trans females. When that happens enough the governing bodies will eventually have to take action to prevent a compete mockery of their competitions.

nice try...but your 8th grade debate tactics are pretty obvious.

it is you that holds them out as the experts...no me. im just quoting them to illustrate how what they (and you) are saying is a distinction without a difference.

by the way, i thought you were "done posting on sex and gender?" lol

Nothing stopping the women who feel from forming their own governing associations with their own rules. *

* yes, I realize some government dipstick could attempt to make this illegal. I'd all argue that all the way to the Supreme Court on grounds of "freedom of association."

APA: gender dysphoria and gender nonconformity are not the same thing. Not all transgender individuals experience gender dysphoria.

Ricky: Nuh-uh

“by the way, i thought you were "done posting on sex and gender?" lol”

On an economics thread.

actually its the apa that is arguing against itself.

pay close attention to what they say is necessary for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

"...as manifested by at least two or more of the following:"

"Criteria: Gender Dysphoria in Adolescents and Adults 1

- A marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and assigned gender, of at least six months’ duration, as manifested by at least two or more of the following:

- A marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and primary and/or secondary sex characteristics (or in young adolescents, the anticipated secondary sex characteristics)

- A strong desire to be rid of one’s primary and/or secondary sex characteristics because of a marked incongruence with one’s experienced/expressed gender (or in young adolescents, a desire to prevent the development of the anticipated secondary sex characteristics)

- A strong desire for the primary and/or secondary sex characteristics of the other gender

** - A strong desire to be of the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender)

** - A strong desire to be treated as the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender)

- A strong conviction that one has the typical feelings and reactions of the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender)

The condition is associated with clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning."

what thinking person doesnt realize that the two bullet points marked with ** are present in every "transgender" person out there.

Then they cover the dysphoria half..."In order to meet criteria for the diagnosis, the condition must also be associated with clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning."

In short, you need both for gender dysphoria. If I have dysphoria but I don't have those other feelings or conditions, it's not gender dysphoria. And if I have those feelings or conditions without distress or impairment, it's also not gender dysphoria.

It's really, really not that hard Ricky.

Good point Dana. The trans women should have their own sports competition organizations and they could start from the ground up incorporating rules they see as important.

I agree. we just disagree on what constitutes “Criteria: Gender Dysphoria in Adolescents and Adults” and what the practical meaning of “significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning” is.

like I said, a distinction without a difference.

you are more than welcome to disagree…as I know you will.

Also the sacred 6-ft social distancing was made up . Collins the former head of NIH admitted there was no science behind it . But it was presented as having science behind it. The concept was promoted by one of the big teacher unions allegedly because they knew with the number of students and the size of the classrooms that the schools would have to be shut down . Is that the case? IDK but it’s been proposed as the basis of the 6-ft distance. The teachers unions were heavily involved in Covid policy decisions.

We’ll see where this leads. Referrals to DOJ have already been made. It’s unlikely to be picked up by Biden’s DOJ but if Trump wins this fall ?????

Also the sacred 6-ft social distancing was made up . Collins the former head of NIH admitted there was no science behind it . But it was presented as having science behind it. The concept was promoted by one of the big teacher unions allegedly because they knew with the number of students and the size of the classrooms that the schools would have to be shut down . Is that the case? IDK but it’s been proposed as the basis of the 6-ft distance. The teachers unions were heavily involved in Covid policy decisions.

We’ll see where this leads. Referrals to DOJ have already been made. It’s unlikely to be picked up by Biden’s DOJ but if Trump wins this fall ?????

drycreek, you responded that Fauci said there was no gain of function research. I said show me a quote where Fauci said gain of function research wasn't occurring (at Wuhan or anywhere). You still haven't.

"Rand Paul has been saying this for years"

Gotcha. A politician was saying it.

"Fauci and NIH were funding gain of function research at Wuhan. Fauci lied under oath in front of congress"

Again, based on what. What Rand Paul said? Again, the scientific community seems very split on what constitutes gain of function research, and per the definition of the 2014 ban - which is also very subjective - plenty of scientists have said the Ecohealth work in question most certainly wasn't gain of function research.

Government officials having secret e-mails that are not subject to FOIA and deleting them is usually a reliable indication that something is not above board.

bunch a fruitcakes.

My god, the facts of this are shocking.

Video of the hearing at X link

Not really. If you were born a male, you are a male. No matter what the doctor cuts off.

I don’t see you jumping in on the professional side for professionals that call this a mental disorder.

Not really. If you were born a male, you are a male. No matter what the doctor cuts off.

I don’t see you jumping in on the professional side for professionals that call this a mental disorder.

Not really. If you were born a male, you are a male. No matter what the doctor cuts off.

I don’t see you jumping in on the professional side for professionals that call this a mental disorder.

Not really. If you were born a male, you are a male. No matter what the doctor cuts off.

I don’t see you jumping in on the professional side for professionals that call this a mental disorder.

Agree.

"I don’t see you jumping in on the professional side for professionals that call this a mental disorder."

When the American Psychiatric Association, American Medical Association, Mayo Clinic, American Psychological Association, American Academy of Pediatricians, etc start to agree with those professionals, I will too.

take mayo clinic for example...

"Gender dysphoria is the feeling of discomfort or distress that might occur in people whose gender identity differs from their sex assigned at birth or sex-related physical characteristics."

"Gender dysphoria might cause adolescents and adults to experience a marked difference between inner gender identity and assigned gender that lasts for at least six months. The difference is shown by at least two of the following:

A difference between gender identity and genitals or secondary sex characteristics, such as breast size, voice and facial hair. In young adolescents, a difference between gender identity and anticipated secondary sex characteristics.

A strong desire to be rid of these genitals or secondary sex characteristics, or a desire to prevent the development of secondary sex characteristics.

A strong desire to have the genitals and secondary sex characteristics of another gender.

A strong desire to be or to be treated as another gender.

A strong belief of having the typical feelings and reactions of another gender.

Gender dysphoria may also cause significant distress that affects how you function in social situations, at work or school, and in other areas of life.

Gender dysphoria might start in childhood and continue into adolescence and adulthood. Or you might have periods in which you no longer experience gender dysphoria. You might also experience gender dysphoria around the time of puberty or much later in life."

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms-causes/syc-20475255

no matter how you slice it...dice it...or massage it...if you are confused about your gender...you are mentally ill.

i dont either. i dont wish ill will on the mentally ill...but i also dont wish ill will on those who are having their spaces invaded and opportunities curtailed by people of the opposite sex.

“Know thy enemy”, wonder who it is on bowsite, doing his duty??

How do you feel about these fake men in woman’s change rooms? The ones where the women are naked with a pretend woman/tranny man? You good with that?! How about if under 18 yr old girls are present? Good with it? Yes or No

And then how about tranny men in women’s prison cells, ones where they sleep overnight with females? You good with that too?! Yes or No

Because “gender professionals” say that they should allow the tranny men in women’s change rooms and prisons. It’s being done by law in California and Canada. Laws recently changed by well who knows who changed them…, couldn’t have been lefty, Marxists after a group meeting could it, to cause chaos and confusion? Naw, that’s just silly.

Karl Marx....was not your average guy on bowsite

Quoted...."The education of all children,from the moment they can get along without a mothers care, shall be in state institutions"

Marxist theories of gender are fundamentally concerned with analyzing the relation between class exploitation and gender inequality. Women's oppression is regarded as the product of the economic, political, and social structures of capitalism.

While the "equality" theory sounds noble to many, the underlying danger in marxism is it destroys the GOD given pattern for the family structure which involves.....Mother, father, children and their respective roles within the family.

and the GOD given pattern for husband and wife.

A man leaves his parents and "cleaves to his wife"..."and they become one"

The pattern of one man...one woman....together have children, and become a family, is without a doubt normal, healthy and good for society.

The promotion of same sex marriage and the gender idenity crisis.....on the contrary will tear down society by creating problems and mental instability.

Like a cancer it infiltrates the body of society, and destroys.

We must view people effected by abnormality with kindness and compassion but most certainly we cannot allow such things to effect others, for in doing so we destroy the sacred foundation of the family.

These things in the end not only destroy the individual....but society as a whole.

think about how disingenuous that is. how can you "respect, tolerate, and support transgender people for who they are..."

and then say...

"No, I don't believe males should compete with females."

what you are really saying is "while ill pay lip service to you...and while ill virtue signal for you...at the end of the day you arent really who or what you think you are. ill say i respect and support you as a woman...but not so much that i will allow you to do all the things that women can do."

either trans women are women or they are not. you cant pick and choose when you want them to be women and when you want them to be men. you cant split the baby.

we can "respect, tolerate, and support" them for their humanity but men are not women and never will be.

But to your questions, I honestly don’t know wtf a “change room” is. But if you’re talking about bathrooms, yes, I have no problem with individuals using the bathroom that corresponds to their gender identity. Generally speaking, it’s the same with locker rooms. My wife finds it incredibly weird and incredibly uncomfortable when she has to share a bathroom with someone who is clearly a different gender than she is, and I tend to put a lot of weight in her opinion. I frankly feel the same way. Like it’s super weird thinking that I’d be forced to share a locker room with Caitlyn Jenner, and no doubt it’s weird for her.

But I’ve told you this countless times. You keep asking me the same question. The answer and the rationale hasn’t changed. So I’ve just concluded you’re a really horrible listener.

And Ricky’s comments regarding virtue signaling? It’s laughable. Again, I’ve formed my opinions based on what I’ve lived and seen and based on the perspectives of people that matter to me, period. Saying that I’m disingenuous or only giving lip service because I think the biological differences between sexes means that athletics shouldn’t take a gender based approach is laughable. Speaking of her, I guess Caitlyn Jenner is only virtue signaling too then (props to her for taking her “lip service” as far as she did - pun intended).

Edit: must’ve been typing at the same time as you, GG. I just hope they don’t start charging me rent for all the time I spend in their heads.

the reason caitlyn doesnt think "trans women" should compete against women is because caitlyn doesnt think they are women.

caitlyn considers herself a "trans person"

the fact that shes a trump supporter is just a cherry on top. (no pun intended)

:)

Biologic males should not compete against biologic females .

Biologic males and females should use bathrooms or locker rooms based on biologic sex. If they want to lobby to have their own trans person bathrooms and locker rooms then go for it. Women should not have to share those areas with someone that has a penis.

And that’s right they are trans people , a male doesn’t turn into a female and a female doesn’t turn into a male. if they go thru gender assignment surgery I’ll accept them for what they are trans people, Otherwise just because a man dresses like a woman or a women dresses like a man and they want to live in a fantasy world fine, whatever just don’t demand that everyone else has to live that fantasy with them.

Nobody is saying they do.

No they don’t. They call themselves women, not females.

“"I see this trans women are real women...no you're not." - Caitlyn Jenner”

And yet she’s said she lives her life as a woman, has had all her gender markers changed on her IDs, and has stated she now uses women’s public restrooms. So…

“How do you feel about these fake men in woman’s change rooms? The ones where the women are naked with a pretend woman/tranny man? You good with that?! How about if under 18 yr old girls are present? Good with it? Yes or No”

“And then how about tranny men in women’s prison cells, ones where they sleep overnight with females? You good with that too?! Yes or No”

The professional gender people, they fully support both of those things and many more crazy ideas. You support the virtue signaling idea of transgenders but then you selectively agree or ignore the professionals.

You with Bruce Jenner naked, hahahaha. It’s a naked man with fake breasts, who may have had his wiener cut off? Who cares? Such a stupid example and everyone knows it. I’m talking about a 14 yr old girl being forced to get naked in front of a fake woman, a male! I do have to admire you stuck on your blind, ridiculous opinions that no one else on bowsite agrees with, such an idiot.

Even a doufus like Grey Ghost doesn’t agree with your opinions on fake men being allowed to invade protected female spaces.

What is a woman?

Someone who identifies as such based on what is important to them as an individual. A woman is someone who errs towards the feminine relative to gender roles (at home, professionally in places, etc), behavior, and expression. Society - not biology - defines what a woman is, and it varies from place to place and culture to culture.

Again, it’s gender (not biology) vs sex (biology). Plenty of great resources out there that spell out the difference e between the two and it’s not really hard.

If a kid thinks and acts, and dresses like a furry , for example a cat. Is the kid an actual cat or is it a kid that thinks it’s a cat and acts, and dresses like a cat ?

Some people may not agree with me but at least I’m consistent and not completely contradictory and nonsensical.

lol

A kid identifies as a cat, which is biologically different than what they were born as. Their psyche and identity revolves around identifying as a cat.

Are their rights any different or less important than a man which chooses to identify as a woman . Who are we to question the validity of what they choose to identify as ?

Isn’t it demeaning , offensive , and judgmental to the cat identifier to suggest otherwise?

I mean it’s what they identify as that’s important , right?

Based on your question, it’s clear you still don’t understand the difference between sex and gender, Orion. But to answer your question how it is written, I don’t really have any issue with a female in a women’s locker room.

“BEG, explain the difference. A man identifies as a women which is biologically different than what they were born as”

Because the concept of species and gender are quite different, and history has shown there’s a lengthy track record of individuals whose gender has not matched their sex, and science and healthcare has supported the notion that a mismatch between gender identity and biological sex is a not uncommon condition of the human experience.

He wants males who identify as women, like Lia Thomas, naked in women’s locker rooms watching women and young teenage girls, 13,14 yrs or younger getting naked. This is what bigeasy gets off on, he could easily be one of the men doing it.

He also supports men who identify as woman in woman’s prison cells where they can rape the real women. Bigeasy and gender professionals support both of these ideas and are getting them enshrined in laws. That’s the leftist/Marxist part of all this.

You would think we wouldn’t have to read comments from the mind of a pedophile but I guess we do. Sexualizing children is another Marxist philosophy.

"so"...after all that...she still believes shes not a real woman...nor are any of the other trans people.

I know u said they shouldn’t compete in sports . Good for you but what about the other challenges?

And don’t say they’re hypothetical. Remember at the beginning of this a “trans” sexually assaulted a girl in Loudoun county VA, then instead of anything being done got sent to another school where he proceeded to sexually assault another girl. These are real problems. To the girls and families this happened to it is more than a challenge.

And in my experience as a hunting outfitter in Canada I’ve spoken to many females who all say they don’t want a naked man in their locker room. And my daughter doesn’t want to face that when she goes to college.

Huh?? I’m assuming you’re talking about a woman’s bathroom, so in what world is this even a real concern? A trans man walks into a stall in the woman’s bathroom that is completely private and this is a danger to young child? Makes me think you don’t even know how bathrooms work.

“And don’t say they’re hypothetical. Remember at the beginning of this a “trans” sexually assaulted a girl in Loudoun county VA, then instead of anything being done got sent to another school where he proceeded to sexually assault another girl”

Yes I remember. You should spend five minutes and research what actually happened in that case. They were a couple that had previous sexual encounters, the boy wasn’t trans, they planned to meet up in the bathroom, and then the pre-arranged hookup turned into an assault. Hardly random. Hardly someone trying to take advantage of bathroom laws to commit a crime.

“As Nyati points out you refuse to acknowledge the danger of males in protected female spaces. You want it, you crave it.”

Bullshit, Mike. You’re falling for the propaganda. Whatever you're fearful of is a myth. There are bathroom access laws on the books in many places around the country, and these assaults or whatever you think are going to happen aren’t happening. Furthermore, if someone is deranged enough to dress up like a woman strictly to assault someone in a bathroom, having a law banning trans individuals from certain bathrooms won’t stop that.

It doesn’t sound as innocent as you portrayed it

And I think of your daughter is alone anywhere - locker room or not - and a 6’4” 220 lb man walks in she should probably be on a heightened level of awareness.

And once again you are selectively going against gender professionals advice.

Now answer the female prison question where the woman is legally locked in a cell with a man overnight on the advice of gender professionals. Imagine that?! It’s being done right now every day. Directly answer it or just shut up.

And what’s happening? There’s like a rash of rapes or assaults by these male prisoners? Question, how much do you worry about the non-trans assaults and rapes that take place in prisons?

I say let em. I tend not to get terribly fussed about prison life.

“Directly answer it or just shut up.”

Such an angry elf.

Can you imagine being the prison guard closing the cell on a crying, terrified female, stuck with a very strange, mentally ill man overnight?! Gender professionalism and bigeasy at work!

Don’t care about women in sports or bathrooms as long as they can get a trans person in there

Don’t care about murders, rapes, employment, flow of drugs, as long as they get their open border

Don’t care about inflation just so they can spend more money on pet projects

Don’t care about electricity and energy prices just so then can try and end fossil fuels.

Don’t care about baby’s lives just so they can get abortions

Don’t care that the education system is failing , just concerned about keeping teachers unions happy and keep the money flowing to democrats I could go on but I figure u know it

ideologue…yes.

virtue signaler…i think so.

“woke”…I doubt it.

unwitting jester, useful idiot, leftist/Marxist, paid professional, mentally ill, Dem, liberal, completely contradictory, nonsensical, [not] even a hunter, ridiculous, Evil, warped mentality, doufus, an idiot, Typical lib, disingenuous, ideologue, virtue signaller.

Now what I would love to see is an in person gathering of a random 100 bowsite guys along with bigeasy wearing a t-shirt saying, “Hi I’m bigeasygator” That would be fun to watch!

Been around random bowsiters a bunch, and despite you questioning whether I hunt, I post trophy photos and hunt recaps and there are plenty of pics of my face to go along with my screen name. I don’t hide behind a screen.

BEG wouldn't have to stand alone? I'd stand with him. I'm sure others would too.

Very telling that Mike U needs 100 friends to interact with BEG. I'd trust BEG much more than you with my kids. Mike, you got some mental health issues yourself.

Seems like such a small % of the population is responsible for these attacks;

Massachusetts Trans “Woman” Goes on Stabbing Rampage at Massachusetts Movie Theater – Stabs 4 Girls Ages 9 to 17 without Warning

no need. i can form my own opinions and come to my own conclusions. i dont need anyone to stand with me.

:)

Well, other than I thought it would be fun to have 100 guys there to see how many times you have to get up?

As for the posters, this is really how you spend your Memorial Day weekend? Do you think those who died for your freedom would want you spending this weekend arguing with strangers online or enjoying reality and spending time with your family? No one on here cares about what you all have to say. No one besides you guys wakes up caring about your opinions or what your most recent reply is - because the replies have just been copy pasted for the past 2 years on here. Grow up and go smell the roses - when you’re on your death beds I don’t think you’re gonna say “man, I sure wish I spent more of my life posting my political opinions on bowsite”, but you’re likely gonna regret spending all weekend posting 20 times on a political thread instead of being present with those who love you. Although if some of you act in person the same as you do on here, people who love you might be few and far between.

No I don't. Never said that.

Not sure how you got that out of “I think we should treat spaces where nudity is highly likely a bit different than bathrooms.” You don’t really listen do you?

The EVIL of the gender ideology movement will take care of the details. They just need your virtue signalling support.

No it doesn't. I support life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness as long as you not violating the civil rights of others. "We the people" does not exclude LBGTQ folks.

"We the people" does not include you Mike. I still hope you find peace someday Mike as you have some serious anger problems.

So….I’ll wait. What rights do I have that they do not?

Additionally, ghost, yes I do have concerns for that as well.

But while we’re talking about that being another subject, I’ll go ahead and say, most men can hold their own against the tranny crowd. Not sure I’d want to try to use the strongest portion of our population (men) in an argument that the weakest segment of our population (women) need to suck it up and deal with it.

And….I’ll also say, here in Utah, we are getting plenty of bathrooms that were once women only, and now are any sex. And it bugs the living piss out of me that my wife and 2 daughters have to sit down on a toilet where another man has had his hairy ass and balls and dick flopping all over.

What do you do at home? Or at friend’s houses? Or anywhere where thwre are portapottys? Are you equally bugged??

To a bathroom that is out in the general public, that literally every Tom, dick and harry are using.

Of course, you also lost the argument with your definition of a woman. Generally, you have some Points that are worth considering. On this thread, none.

As far as Porto potties go, let’s not start confusing situations where there are no other options with, inviting it all in and having all spaces made for men and women.

It’s okay to separate the 2 of them and let the ladies in our lives have privacy.

Again, what rights do I have? I’ll wait.

Seems like a man’s balls and ass may touch any of those, which you said bugs the hell out of you. Just trying to understand what really upsets you. Frankly, getting upset about the thought of your wife or daughter having to use a toilet that could have been used by a male at some point seems completely irrational to me. On the list of things that cross my mind let alone upset me that one doesn’t even register. But as bowsite has proven over and over, people will get outraged by anything these days.

“Again, what rights do I have? I’ll wait.”

How about…The right to use the bathroom that corresponds with your gender identity.

Don't play dumb...

You can live in your own fantasy all you want but it’s utter horse shit and you damn well know it.

Bigeasy, your argument is lost. Get over it.

Kansas, find me something real. We’re all discriminated against in one way or another.

Get over yourselves.

Dang, that's kind of harsh (even for a guy who's every other statement is to call someone, or worse... to marginalize an entire group as idiots)! Joking of course as from the context I think you meant to say "exclude". Maybe the edit button would be appropriate in this case?

Nice try, DC.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[note 1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America"

pretty sure the fair housing act doesn’t allow that.

Now imagine if she did something dumb or accidental and ended up in prison. You good with tranny men in female prisons too flatlander? Remember the gender professionals highly recommend it! Hate to go against them.

Ricky- kind of but not officially until 2020 when SCOTUS Bostock v. Clayton Cty decision. Pretty recent.

"An estimated 8.1 million LGBT workers age 16 and older live in the United States. Nearly half of these workers—3.9 million people—live in states without statutory protections against sexual orientation and gender identity discrimination in employment.

There are over 3.5 million LGBT students age 15 and older in the U.S. About 2 million live in states without statutory protections against sexual orientation and gender identity discrimination in education.

There are an estimated 13 million LGBT people age 13 and older in the U.S. Approximately 6.5 million live in states that do not statutorily prohibit sexual orientation and gender identity discrimination in public accommodations.

There are an estimated 11 million LGBT adults in the U.S. Over 5.4 million live in states without statutory protections against sexual orientation and gender identity discrimination in housing and 7.7 million lack such protections in credit."

recently or not…your statement wasn’t accurate.

As to the rest…federal law supersedes state law.

How about the mutilation surgeries for minors, good with those flatlander? You know 16 yr old girls getting their breasts cut off, and then sterilized, they couldn’t possibly regret that would they? Another source of my crazy anger.

Never said that. Guessing you didn’t do very well in reading comprehension, did you Mike? I said I’m fine with trans women sharing prison space with cis women.

Nonetheless, you good with trans women getting raped by men in prison, Mike? What do you think is a higher risk situation for assault...a male that identifies as a woman in a female prison, or a male that identifies as a woman in a male prison?

She *might* have seen a penis in her personal life willingly, so allow men in the dressing room?

Give me a phucking break.

Under that logic, then maybe we shouldn’t penalize OBGYN’s who abuse patients either. After all, they went to the dr and removed their clothes.

so am i. i think most people are. having said that...there is a big difference between empathy and affirmation.

spoken by someone who obviously doesnt have a daughter. what a foolish statement.

its all about consent.

if you cant differentiate between seeing a penis by choice and seeing one unexpectedly in a space reserved for women...you need help.

thats reality bud.

Everything that is rare is not a concern until it happens to you and your family then it’s 100%

it doesnt even have to happen to us personally. at the end of the day...this is about the country and the world we want our children and grandchildren to live in. in my opinion, that is infinitely more important than hunting.

are our daughters and granddaughters going to be afforded the same opportunities and protections that previous generations have enjoyed? are we going to be able to tell our kids and grandkids that we pushed back against this lunacy...or are we going to say sorry kids...i know youve lost all your private spaces and title nine protections...but at least we fought like hell to keep crossbows out of bow season and spoke out about the evils of outfitters.

he also stated that he is against the changes biden made to title 9 protections through executive order.

not a fan of rfk jr at all...but im glad to see he is willing to see this crap for what it is.

You can’t make this up....but they keep trying to tell us people like this are totally normal.

Video at link.....

did you notice this is the comments?

transphobic horses. thats funny...i dont care who you are.

:)

"Veronica Garcia, a transgender high school athlete in Washington who won the state championship in the girls 400-meter race last month, complained about the lack of "sportsmanship" shown after winning the race and receiving a medal for it.

Garcia, of East Valley High School, ran the race in 55.75 seconds, which was one second better than the second-place finisher's time of 56.75, according to the Pacific Northwest Track and Field Officials' track scoreboard.

However, Garcia told The Spokesman-Review the lack of a congratulations from other runners at the meet "somewhat hurt."

"I guess maybe I expected sportsmanship because I was cheering the rest of them on when they were called. So I guess I expected to get that reciprocated," Garcia told the paper. "But I didn’t get that."

gosh...i wonder what he expected? did he expect the biological girls and all the fans to cheer for a biological male that just beat them?

sad...

“The American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) is a socially conservative advocacy group of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals in the United States, founded in 2002. The group advocates against abortion rights and rights for LGBT people. ACPeds promotes conversion therapy. As of 2022, its membership has been reported at about 700 physicians.”

For comparison, the American Academy of Pediatrics has 67,000 members.

“admiration”

And you didn’t mean to express some sort of surprise or astonishment. Ok lol

actually no.

truth be known...i was simply repeating what elon musk said about it. his twitter feed is where i saw the video.

having said that...i always like it when someone like you (whos hubris seems to know no bounds) tells me what i think about something or why i posted it.

it took more than a year...but more of the transgender tennessee school shooters writings are being revealed. the following statement was quite telling...

' “My penis exists in my head. I swear to god I’m a male,” Hale, who had started to go by Aiden at the time of the shooting, wrote on one page in their diary...'

apparently this mentally ill person didnt get the "trans has nothing to do with sex" memo.

if only someone was available to 'trans-splain' the difference between "gender" and "sex" to her...it might have prevented a lot deaths...including her own.

wow

fact.

"Americans are in the midst of a mental health crisis, which lingered well before and was exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic," the researchers wrote in the report.

"The initial trauma and continued ripple effects from the pandemic are still negatively impacting Americans’ mental health, particularly teens and young adults."

Why the spike in gender dysphoria?

Multiple factors have led to the sharp uptick in gender dysphoria, according to Abbey Jo Schrage, a licensed psychotherapist who runs her own practice in Idaho and provides virtual mental health services.

"The first is the simple fact of awareness of gender identity issues," she told Fox News Digital.

"Youth have newfound, and constant, access to information and language regarding issues such as gender identity via countless apps and websites."

wow...is anyone surprised?

lock children in their homes...at a very vulnerable time in their development...with nothing to do but spend hours upon hours each day on social media/apps/websites that promote all sorts of abnormalities as normal.

what could possibly go wrong?

can anyone say "social contagion?"

"Lia Thomas, a transgender swimmer who created controversy during the 2022 season with a win at the NCAA championships, lost a legal battle over rules that prevented trans swimmers who have been through male puberty from competing in elite women’s events.

The Court for Arbitration of Sport dismissed Thomas’ request for arbitration with World Aquatics, according to a ruling released Wednesday. The governing body in swimming made its ruling in 2022, which essentially banned transgender swimmers from competing in female events. World Aquatics also created an "open" category for transgender athletes."

"Federal judge in Louisiana calls President Biden's mandatory protections for 'gender identity' a 'threat to democracy'"

appears to be just another example bidens overreach.

"for the constitution."

Here is the youtube link to the American college of Pediatrics stating that US policy is bad and contradicts the science from multiple studies….but US policy makers know best.

"In a letter sent to state school leaders this week, Walters said he consulted "with several other state education leaders and legal counsel" regarding "serious concerns with the legality of these rule changes, especially as it relates to its redefinition of 'sex' to include gender identity."

what i find particularly ironic (read hypocritical) is how those that are constantly trying to trans-splain the difference between sex and gender...are now conflating the two when its convenient for them to do so.

gender is not sex...until we need it to be.

There is over 700 pages of curricula on gender and sex issues.

Then CA just passed a law that says the school system can take gender measures without informing the parents- cutting parenting out of the mix.

This is what Liberal Democrat policy gets us- its crazy.