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Have fun

Jim

It sure could core an apple though....

razor ring for one that was never taken seriously but would have been even worse if it had been

Some of Hoyts old heads were somewhat fragile, I did take a few animals with their "blackhole" heads years ago, but the "chuck-it" head didn't last long.

Woody

The two I used in my earlier years that were pure junk where the satellite and wasp heads.

I think any head that has conned point should be outlawed. There's enough knowledge today that manufactures owe bow hunting and the game bow hunters hunt more that that type of head.

There are a number of good heads today, but there are still more that are just junk. I hope bow hunters will take the time and effort to understand that a broadhead is the most important piece of equipment we use. Choose it wisely.

Have a great bowhunt. BB

Old green Wasp heads with the double ring lock. Especially the 6 blade model. Never saw one hold togther in game, not even a groundhog.

Hilbre with the plastic/nylon ferrule

Rippers I can't remember the company that made them) there was no way to get them sharp.

Serpentines another that you couldn't sharpen.

Punchcutters

Puckets Bloodtrailers

I am sure there are many more these are the ones I have seen with my own eyes being used and having lost game of just barely made a kill happen.

Guys the Satalites is killing me:) i forgtot about blades falling out and the blades exploding on impact. i shot many animals with those and recovered all but i would never trade my muzzys.

with the satalites i drew on a deer once and just before i shot it was like someone hit the eject button and ALL three blades jumped off teh head. i was able to revover then but they would not stay in that head it was garbage

Razor ring or what ever that thing is called...never mind just forget it.

Scott

Kirby

I'd vote for the Pucket Bloodtrailer. Weak body, and when it bent, it would jam the blades, virtually a blunt tip. Little to recommend it.

James

You can sure tell the greenhorns from the old timers on this thread!

I would add that the Wasp broad heads that people are talking about are the early ones that were not held by the arrow shaft, only by the rings that went around the broad head and held the blades. Atleast for a while.

The Wasp cam-lok series broad heads were not bad heads for their time. My friends and I killed a bunch of deer with them back in the 80's and never had any problems. Savora's were really not bad heads.

ANY mechanical broadhead. Period!

If you are too lazy, or aren't smart enough to get a fixed blade broadhead to fly out of your setup, that is YOUR fault.

I see no reason to take a chance at something that MIGHT FAIL to do the job.

Ok, now that some of you have your hackles up, let me ask you this. You got kids? You want the best and safest, foolproof protection for them in a car seat? Of course you do, if not, you are an idiot. You wouldn't skimp on something as important as your kids, would you?

Why take the chance of something going wrong while you are hunting? Why not look at it the same way? You have to admit, there is that chance something could go wrong using a mechanical broadhead, it moves and such, it might open, it MIGHT NOT.

To those that choose to use these, good luck, it is your choice, but a bad choice in my opinion. Anybody worth a darn, and who will take the time to make it work, can get a fixed blade broadhead to fly good if they make the effort. But have we become so dependent on technology that we are too lazy to make the effort? Sadly, I think this is true in today's "instant bowhunter" world.

BR Stinger,

BB means "coned" or with a tip shaped like a cone. He always misspells it and we've given up on correcting him ;^)

By the way BB, "conned" is what happens to you when a con-man takes your money.

“Pucketts Bloodtrailers. I had a cousin that used to shoot these broadheads and I must say they looked pretty sketchy.

punch cutters when the head was pushed back the blades pushed out then normally fell off”

I still have a package of these. Only used one 22yrs ago and it did work. But after hearing many nightmares about them not opening I put them down.

Thunderhead 125 3 blades have passed through dozens of deer for me. This year I gave Muzzy a shot. 3 blade and 4 blade 100gr. 3 deer with each head all pass throughs. 4 blade made a much bigger blood trail. Not needed since they drop in sight but a big hole it did make. I’ll be using these again come Sept 15 2007.

So what your saying is that you've quit bowhunting completely?

If you really care about your kids, you wouldn't knowingly subject them to the #1 cause of death for children (automobile accidents) by taking them in a vehicle, would you? And if you were, you would of course select only the vehicle with the highest overall safety rating? And you of course wouldn't let your child ride in any other model due to the elevated risk of injury? And you of course would only travel at the times of day where statistcially there are fewer accidents?

Or do you understand that there are reasonable and acceptable levels of risk that we take on in our everday lives? So to is the case with mechanical BH's.

So I assume you drive a Volvo? Or did you take other criteria beyond safety into consideration and make what you deemed a reasonable compramise with respect to safety when buying a vehicle?

It is all fun to generalize about such things, but pragmatically speaking I don't think you could find much quantitative support for your contention. Moreover, the aspusrions cast by Two Arrows are largely unfounded, as there are many instances that IMO mechanical BH's are a better choice than fixed for reasons that have nothing to do with tuning.

Using traditional equiptment, I definitly wouldnt reccomend using mechs. You dont shoot a compound with all them confusing moving parts, do ya ? Or a drop away rest? Or a release?

Mechs have gotten a bad rap because of some bad designs, but that doesnt make them all bad. Look at the list above, there are many fixed heads that were just as bad as the bad mechs.

I shoot both fixed and mechs, both fly great out of my bow. I have come to realize that a bad shot is a bad shot no matter what head is used. A kill shot is a kill shot with either head.. With todays KE and a good broadhead of either style, Most shot failures are caused by the user and not the head.

Andy

And inappropriate use.

Then you probably haven't shot original 180 grain Rothaar Snuffers glued to swaged aluminum shafts out of a hard 2-cam compound at 83 lbs. Those didn't fly too well, even with 5 inch helical vanes. But they do make a heluva mean hissing sound.

Thanks for your concern. I too, shoot traditional. My Bob Lee Bicentennial, my two Fedora 560's and my Chek-Mate Hunter II do not require the items that you have listed. Neither does my Hoyt Cybertech, as I have made that as simple as can be.

A mechanical broadhead serves what purpose other than ease of tuning? In my opinion, it's a lazy man's way out. But, then again, why should I be surprised in this day and age.

I'll answer that. Two primary reasons. First, a mech head has a much smaller overall profile with it's blades folded in the ferrul. No matter how well a fixed broadhead is tuned, it will never fly as true as an equally weighted mechanical in windy conditions. The benefits here are largely realized at longer ranges(and high speeds) and are undeniable. That's been documented over the years BTW. Second, most mechs have larger cutting diameters. The obvious benefit here is on slightly misplaced shots where an extra 3/8" or more cutting diameter can make the difference between a wound and a kill. Of course some will argue: "just shoot straight and it won't matter" If you never make a bad shot, then they're right. Your right about one thing though, anyone who doesn't tune their bow is lazy.....and ignorant, I might add.

I am not an expert on either hunting or bows. Alot of people on here have killed some magnificent animals that I can only dream about. I am always looking for any legal and ethical way to increase my chances of not only killing a deer but also recovering it. I have been reading bowsite posts for about 4 years and I have used alot of the equiptment and hunting knowledge I have learned about on here.

When I first started bowhunting I had no one to teach me about tuning a bow. I read and did the best I could. I could never get fixed to fly as true as mechs. Over the next couple of years I made some friends that taught me how to properly tune and setup my bow. My mechs and broadheads now group the same out to at least 40 yards.

But during those first couple of years I killed 4 does and one buck with the mechs. All shots pass thrus and all deer recovered. Since that time I have killed several deer, probaly between 15-20. Unfortunatly 2 of those deer I didnt recover, but it wasnt the fault of the broadheads. One was a bad shot and the other was bad shot selection. I have 3 hunting buddies that also shoot mechs, they average about 5 deer a year. None of them have ever had ahead failure.

Without calling me lazy explain to me why I should switch to strictly fixed. Dont just bash me and call me names. Explain to me the failures you have experienced firsthand with the broadhead I shoot. More moving parts isnt a good reason. I also know many of the deer shot were not full broadside so shot angle isnt a good reason either. Please dont generalize the mechs into one group. If you did that I could just pick out one of the bad heads posted about above and say fixed heads are junk too. I shoot a 2" vortex.

Last thing. I like mechs for wt deer, if the good Lord blesses me with an oppurtunity to hunt elk I probaly would use a a fixed head. Not because of head failure, but because it takes more ke to get a pass thru with a bigger cutting head. With deer, my bow and most newer compounds develop so much ke it is almost overkill for deer. I have no experience with elk so Ill take the advice of many experienced bow hunters on here and use a fixed head. I try to keep an open mind. You coming on here and calling me lazy doesnt improve me or you as a hunter or as a person. Explain why switching too fixed will make me a better hunter, Ill listen and may even switch. I shoot fixed on hog hunts so Im not stuck on mechs only. I just know on a well placed shot, my vortex leave a hole and blood trail that I havent seen a fixed head match. God Bless Andy

I have taken and videoed bulls shot with expandables, and they go down fast. I also shot my 7 year old bull buffalo with an expandable. Doing your homework and knowing your equipment capabilities is always a good thing!!

In no particular order;

The 3 blade bodkins with metal too soft to take and edge.

Razorback 5s with the rotating plastic cartridge.

Hilbres with the plastic ferrule.

Satellite 2 blade fixed 160 gr. (fall apart on impact).

Archery Visions Woodsmans which were eventually bought out and rebadged as 'Steel Force'. Having looked at the newer 'Steel Force" versions of these heads, I can't see that they've made any significant improvements on them.

With both these, and the Satellites, the blade separates from the ferrule upon the slightest impact. Even the Hilbres with the plastic ferrules hold together better than either of these heads.

As mentioned, cutting diameter and reduced wind drft, not to mention they are more forgiving of poor form or a bad release which can be caused by shooting at the awkward positions which sometimes occur in the field.

Out of the 50+ critters I have killed with a bow, I can say I have never lost an animal due to a failure with a mechanical head. However, I can confidently say I have recovered animals hit with mechs that I don't think I would have recovered were I using a fixed blade with a typical cutting diameter.

Bottom line is that calling mechs a lazy man's way is much more a sohpomores attempt at discrediting a class of broadheads they have no practical experience with than the truth of the matter.

I shot a cow elk last year and recovered the front half of the arrow. The muzzy had one blade that was bent about 45 degrees, but I still got a pass through. Arrow weight was 450 gr. out of a 70# bow.

I will second all posts regarding the old satellites - pure junk.

Fixed blades have a lower wounding potential than moving blades, in my opinion. Wouldn't you agree that a fixed blade broadhead would have more energy passing through the animal than a broadhead with moving parts? I guess I don't really know as I am a sohpomore (or is that a sophomore?) as you so describe. You can judge me by that in a post or two? If so, you really are as smart as you think you are.. I'll gladly put my hunting credentials and ethics against anybody's, anyday, with no hesitation.

Also, I am very curious to know, when in the world do you find time to sleep? With 50 critters to your credit (geez, slow down Elmer, a person of your stature and willingness to give advice should be at least triple of that. Hmmmm, never have seen the Wensel brothers push themselves off on people like you do) and your constant badgering of people on the Bowsite who are substandard to you according to your constant holier than thou attitude.

I'm not going to bicker about it anymore. If you shoot mechanicals, best of luck to you, your choice. But there is a better way.

Doesn't that depend upon which fixed and which mechanical that you're comparing?

How much energy does it take to open a mechanical?

Generally speaking perhaps, but I don't think that reasoning is to the point. Most modern bows will generate far more energy than is needed for complete penetration on medium-sized game. Many folks simply chose to put that energy to use through a larger cutting diameter rather than waste it in the ground on the other side of the critter.

Moreover, the BH that I have seen win more independent penetration contests (rocket steelhead) is a mechanical however. This contradicts your assertion, hence my criticism above of speaking in generalizations on the issue.

"I guess I don't really know as I am a sohpomore (or is that a sophomore?) as you so describe. You can judge me by that in a post or two?"

I can judge in a post or two that you have little to no personal experience in the subject we are disucssing - mechanical broadheads.

"If so, you really are as smart as you think you are.. I'll gladly put my hunting credentials and ethics against anybody's, anyday, with no hesitation."

I have no doubt you are an accomplished bowhunter. Let's just compare notes on our mutual personal experiences with mechanical BH's (kill #'s, brands, successes, failures) and let the readers make an informed decision on the matter based on relevent data points.

Like you, I've used and sold too many broadheads over the years to count. I've also examined literally hundreds of deer carcasses over the years killed with fixed and mechanical heads alike. The devastation caused by the larger cutting mechs has been unequaled by anything else I've seen. Simply said, the "punchcutter era" is precisely what gave mechs a stigma. Manufacturers have risen above it and we now have our choice of dozens of very high quality mech designs to choose from.

If more would do the necessary research with regards to the proper use of these great tools, these debates wouldn't exist. Too often people believe bogus secondhand "information" instead of making a logical and educated decisions for themselves. That is what I find truly "lazy".

You say that you try to take all the risks out of bowhunting, but you use a stick bow instead of a compund with sights so you are already putting in a lot of risk because your accuracy drops down considerably without sights. So you are risking a poorly placed shot more with your stick than a guy with a compound and sights.

LET THE FLAMING BEGIN!!

I realize that targets and hunting are not the same, but if you can't hit something when you are calm and collected you won't do any better in a hunting situation.

I prefer the new never been invented deer vital seeking broadhead,that should be the one to have!

Besides I'm with Reelman,Pat C tells a good story about someone we'll never see ,or ever heard of!

I think it was a strange broadhead called a "Deadhead" made by Golden Key, back a number of years ago.

If I remember right, it had real radically offset blades on it. It flew all over the place, and never hit the same place twice. But yet, I could shoot field tips, Thunderheads, Stingers, Muzzy's, Wasps, ...any number of broadheads, and they'd be on target.

my vote: 1) Pucketts bloodtrailer 2) Satellite titan 3) Rocket ultimate steel

Some of you guys need to take your personal arguments to private messages.

Worst all time head, Browning Serpentine by far.

Second, Sattelite, Third Hilbre fourth, SAvora

I killed a couple of animals with the Wasp 6 blade,. So what if you blow off a couple of blades LOL Talk about damage. Those heads would bleed an animal out if you hit it in the hoof. They punched a half dollar size hole. I think I still have one in my old tackle box., I have a couple of serpentines and some old Deadheads too. Wish I still had the Deadheads to shoot.

I also agree with Mark, folks need to do more than rely on the bowshop to paper tune (or less) and call it tuned. IMO a bowshop just flat can't tune YOUR bow. They can get it in the ballpark, but the shooter has to finish the job. A set of allen wrenches is usually all it takes. All my FBBH hit with my FP out to 30 yards or so, the extra drag starts to change things farther downrange. No reason they should hit left or right, that's for sure.

Thanks Bou. What do you do for kicks at at weddings and funerals? LOL!

Funny how things have turned. To hear that even now people are trashing Muzzy's - that's hard to swallow. I've shot pretty much everything out there excluding some of the "exotic" crap, like Atoms or crimson traial anything.

G5 montecs, strikers and t2/3 are all solid, Magnus stingers and snuffers, older Vortex, pretty much anything Muzzy, Rage, Slick Tricks...

Man, it's hard to find a crap point these days, but the old Satellite broaheads that you used to pick up for $8 for 3, or anything with the twising heads like crimpson talon is puking out...

You can find a handfull of crap broadhead if you really work at it. Any Walmart store has them sitting right next to what I consider one of the best heads out there. Muzzy 100's have probably dropped more deer and elk in there tracks than a lot of others combined.

Shoot them all, if you can tune your bow, just about any BH will work. I watched a coues buck crumple in 25 yards last year, followed by a muley hit "less than perfect" a week later fold at around 80 yards with 100 grain Muzzy. Both spewed blood on everything in sight, and both made for good eating.

I'd shoot magnus, G5, Slick Tricks, Rage, lots of heads, but I'd put muzzy against any of them for lethality on game. JMO.

Browning Serpentine

Yeah Mtnman, those 80's goldtips with the "Spaceage plastic" ferrules were a joke.

Never shot them myself, but a shop owner buddy got some for free and found out the hard way

Remember the Hoyt Chuck It or something like that, looked nasty but probabally didn't penetrate very well, and yeah those plastic ferruled heads were sketchy too. I remember those Delma ma3s too, pretty solid head but I didn't know how to sharpen a sharp knife back then, he,he.

Don't know why Muzzys made the list either, they've been great heads for a long time, not the thickest blades but the way they locked made for a strong ferule IMO.

That was 20 years ago, before the idea of "tuning your gear" ever entered my brain.

These days, I like the fixed blades that are solidly built.

Best of Luck, Jeff (Bowsite Sponsor)

Not!!! I am going to be completely honest. I made a terrible shot. It was a litle too late and I made a bad judgement call to take the shot. I thought the deer was broadside to slightly quartering away, but as my 294 fps arrow made impact right in front of the hindquarters, I saw that the deer was quartering fairly hard to me and it wheeled even harder toward me when I shot. This was completely my fault and I take 100 % responsibility.

I came back the next morning and did pick up a muscle type blood trail for around 300 yds until it crossed a highway. I lost the trail in the ditch as it crossed off of my property on to an Expressed "No Tresspassing Property". Would I have recovered this animal with a large cut mechanical. Maybe, but I don't think it is likely, as it probably would have still made it across that highway.

Two comments on a couple that were nominated. I killed the first live deer I ever saw when I was 16 years old in 1969 with a Pearson Deadhead. Frankly, I think the Silver Flames remind me a lot (although much higher quality) of the deadheads.

In 2007 I killed a whitetail deer and a 225 boar with the Atom. Those titanium blades really do cut flesh and blood vessels very well and are supposed to slip around bone without deflecting. I hit the perfectly wrong -- right in the shoulder plate. The deer went 40 yards and the hog went 70.

For me: Best is the Atom.

Worst: Allan Lightning 125. Shot these when I started out on a tight budget. I couldn't get it to tune for crap and the blades bent going through the foam target.

Another vote for Satellite as well.

Marketing sure sells!!

I remember Wary Buck (Bryce Lambley) used to post a lot. Noticed beendare, x-man, Mt. man, Matt and others still post. A bunch that you don't see around anymore.

We need someone to find one of those old Gold Tips and pass it around....then tell me it ain't the worst piece of junk BH you have ever seen.

Yep, Gold Tip...same company as today....when they couldn't make a decent BH...they went into arrows /grin

Screw on one of those old gold tip heads, and you could flex the tip from side to side with the cheap plastic ferrule. They essentially exploded when you hit an animal....I guess the idea was that the dislodged blades would act as shrapnel!?

Understandably, they didn't last long...circa late 80's early 90's I think.