It is pretty much understood around here that if you are the first one to put up a blind on a water hole it is yours to hunt. Many leave their name and contact information so others may may use the pond when the owner of the blind is done. It's just good sportsmanship.
My DAD,(bless his soul) taught me from a very young age to honor all land and all the critters of God's creation.
So I really believe there are few out there with any more respect for the land than I have. I have made it a creed, no matter whiter I'm walking my dog in a public park, driving down a BLM dirt road or climbing a steep Forest Service mountain, to leave any area I pass over or through, better for my being there.
Sometimes we bowhunter’s are our own worse enemy. We ***** and complain because a guy puts up a treestand or digs a pit blind and most of flack is done by the guy who is riding his four wheeler across the country trying to find a place to hunt, or a guy in a four wheel drive truck, tearing up the mountain roads to get to the high spring that shows on a map.
I personally think we have to take care of the country and be responsible, but that does not mean a treestand or a ground blind can not be built and used responsibly. It also means that when you leave the area, you leave it better than you found it.
You do that by refilling the hole you dug, cleaning up not only your mess, but others too. Walk and pack the materials you use, don't drive right up to where you plan to build your blind.
If your one of these guys that just drive around looking for a waterhole, just off the road, then no wonder there's a blind already there. The guy that put it there got off his duff and did his work early. I know that doesn't agree with lots of you, but there are a lot more good waterholes than just the one or two you are complaining about. Had you been the first one there, done the work necessary, then you might understand a tad more than you do if someone already had a blind at the waterhole you found or planned to hunt. If it’s a good waterhole, then the guy probably won't be there very long and it will soon be available. If it’s not that great the guys has done you a favor by sitting there and leaving some of the good ones to those who are willing to do the work to find and fix them.
It's so easy to get mad at someone, but much more productive to just get off your can and work hard and find those good waterholes that are hidden and out of the way. In most cases the best waterhole have yet to be discovered and most years go throughout the season without a blind or treestand, as most guys are not willing to pay the price it takes. It much easier just complaining about someone who has more incentive than you., than it is to find one of your own and do the work.
I really like hunting waterholes, and every year I find great waterholes that have never had a treestand or ground blind placed by them. I find them by walking in areas far from the roads, as almost every waterhole that's on or near a road will be taken. But that doesn’t mean they are the best ones, as they have yet to be found. And this is especially true once the season begins.
From my experience, one can not put up and take down a pop up blind daily and expect much action unless one is hunting animals that are pretty acclimated to people. Wild critters just don’t like that much activity.
My suggestion is spend your time hunting for the BEST waterhole and leave the complaining to those that really aren't willing to pay the price. Most of those people don't have the patience or the ability to set one up anyway. Here in Utah, a good portion of their time will be spent road hunting or hounding those that are willing to get off their duffs!
Have a great bowhunt. BB
Note from the BLM on Ground Blinds--
"No blinds are to be constructed out of native materials on public land. A person can bring a portable blind with him to hunt as long as it can be picked up and removed at the end of the day. Blinds are not to be left on public land, even for as short a period as overnight. Blinds found on public land will be destroyed and the responsible party cited for trespass and/or for littering.
Any questions, please contact Mike Nelson, JuLee Pallette, or Randy Griffin"
That seems pretty specific and if it is true, then customs or not, hard work or not, it is unlawful and criminal. By the way, this is from the Utah BLM office regarding our area. I have not called... seems pretty clear to me.
I plan on hunting a few days and will likely do the spot and stalk. I will drive to a high point (on the road with my ATV and then hike the rest of the way), set up my spotting scope and look for a decent animal and then proceed. If while on the stalk I should find a water hole to my liking, I'll come back with a portable blind. If I find a note, I'll ignore it and hunt the water hole unless it is occupied, then I'll proceed to another spot. To me, this is not *****ing or being lazy, it is hunting and I would think many do the same thing. You are assuming all who do not set up a blind are being lazy. Many are... many are not. Do lump all of us in the same catigory. Now with the BLM information I posted, do you still feel the same about digging a hole and covering it up when you are finished? As I read it, you can not do it legally.
Am I saying you should be breaking the law every chance you get? Heck no, but in this case I thinkI'd be more than happy with setting up my blinds and be willing to pay the price if it came down to it- but then I've taken the time to get to know all the local hunters and conservation officers in my area.
Good hunting-
Michael
Those same managers then turn around and let the cattle and sheep people erect structures they need, many of which are left to fall apart on their own.
I've hunted antelope with a bow many times. I have never hunted them in Utah however. In Wyoming one can do as I say, but they must fill their hole when complete. The few holes, dug by such a limited number of bowhunters, as long as they are filled, when the hunt is completed, does no permanent damage when compared to 4 wheelers, trucks etc. The guys who make these rules can't see past their nose as far as I'm concerned. We all need to take care of and respect the land and so I am of the belief that if we do that, we can use it in many ways as long as respect is at the top of our list. If you can't leave a blind up over night on BLM ground, then why do you even have the right to leave your truck, atv, etc any place over night. To me it’s all hogwash and brought on by many people, some being bowhunters complaining about what you are complaining about.
The first 4 or 5 antelope I ever took with my bow were taken by stalking. I can only say you have your work cut out. And if you want a nice buck, I don't think you will get one often out of a blind that was set up on the day you plan to take him. That's just been my experience over the years. I'm sure it can be done, but the times will be few and far between in my opinion.
What I think about the Utah BLM policies?. I think BOU and UBA should be working to get these stupid polices changed, rather than editorialize like BOU has been doing on their home page. I believe 180 degrees in the opposite direction, than does inclose (another bowsiter and founder of BOU). Had I known or felt that was going to be their position, then I would have never, ever, become a lifetime member. I hope others in that organization are wise enough to see that position will only divide bow hunters and drastically reduce their chance of success.
That's my .02 cents on the subject!
Have a great bowhunt. BB
we hae the same deal about the guy that sets up the blind first being the guy with first rights to it. i leave a note in it and this is the first year anyone has called me. we worked it out and i will hunt it the first few days and he will hunt it the first weekend. both of us will be happy :)
As you mentioned above bowhunters are our own worst enemy, and no matter how ridiculous the law happens to be it is still the law.
If one bowhunter goes to the site and either saves themselves a costly ticket or prevents a complaint call to the BLM it will go a long way in future hunting opportunities that could in fact be put in jeopardy because we are our own worst enemy by not understanding the laws as they are written.
BOU is not anti blind or anti treestand in any way shape or form other than being very against home made treestands that are both unsafe, spiked into tree's and as eyesore to all that hunt our public lands.
Again the information provided on the BOU website is intended to be how the letter of the law reads and not the BOU position.
Gordy Bell President Bowhunters Of Utah
Thanks for your thoughts. I'm not sure I agree with the rules on everything either, but as Gordy stated, that is the law and we are obliged to obey. I personally do not have a problem with the blinds I saw, but I do have a problem with the notes left. If I were an out of state hunter and came to the area and found a note like that, I'd be livid, I was, and I am a local. I will not comply with someones note. It is public land and the first to get to the area is the one who uses it. Building a blind is not a problem with me other than the person who builds it should not suppose that gives him any special rights to land use. However, BLM policy states differently and so as ethical and law abiding bowhunters, we must comply or be considered criminal and risk giving bowhunting a bad reputation. So, as the ethical hunter I know you are, are you going to follow your personal feelings or comply with the law? You aren't asked to like it, only to obey. Perhaps the real reason the BLM policy about blinds exists is because other hunters have been claiming water hole rights and this was a simple way to stop the arguing/complainig. No blinds, no reason to claim hunting rights, problem resolved.
The real difference between cattle / Sheep ranchers and hunters is the hunter is the only one who does not get a permit to alter the land. If one has a permit, then I think that gives the person a few more rights including deciding who sits his blind.
Have a great bowhunt. BB
No one ever thought to call the BLM and ask about the issues of blinds under the Utah thread because they were so busy being motivated I assume. Being the lazy self I am, with all my lazy time, I made a phone call and ask the public land agency in question if they had the true Pooh about blinds on BLM lands.(I've been on oxygen ever since). Sorry I was running out of gas and didn't put phone numbers with the names out of the SLC district. Being so lazy minded also caused me to not mention that these policys may vary in other districts, truly that was my bad. I apologize to the motivated bowhunters. They will have to take a minute to find a number in order to call and find out the actual truth of the matter.
My lazy self was asked to become a part of BOU to help preserve bowhunting opportunity in the state of UT. Having good information and acting accordingly is one way to help justify what we love to do, to the decision makers. This particular BLM manager supplied this informational policy for the region he manages and happens to sit on the Northern Region RAC (public input arena for the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources). This is just one place where bowhunters go to plead thier causes. If BOU is to make any in roads preserving or advancing bowhunting in the state of Utah, then they first and formost must require members to be within the laws, silly or not! Silly laws often die a silly death overtime, but they are still on the books and could be inforced. For Example: In England if men of such an age do not practice 4 hours a day on Sunday on the village square with the bow then they could go to jail. That was still on the books from the 1500's some twenty years ago when I checked. (just an example the US has plenty of their own) With all the public land issues of our nations lands, you'd better be checking.
If the laws are silly then there are ways to go about fixing them, but it takes time and a whole mess of lazy bowhunters to do it. BOU at the moment is working on a legal access map to the Wasatch Front hunt, to help clear up some conflicts there. This could help keep that a secured opportunity if bowhunters will just comply. A bunch of lazy bowhunters are working on the issue at the moment while motivated bowhunters are scouting. Thank goodness for a few lazy bowhunters. I hope I saved at least KJ a ticket. KJ was just lazy enough to get on this sight and try to help any other lazy bowhunter who may had enough energy to click the mouse and get better information. For that he gets the lazy bowhunter award. (Someday it may come in the mail)
I think BOU would be happy to refund membership fees to anyone who may have donated and doesn't feel that BOU is near lazy enough! (If BOU can find anyone with enough effort to mail the check back)
This message brought to you buy one of the laziest bowhunters you'll ever meet. That is one reason I chose my handle. It's just easier not to miss if I'm inclose, and I'm all about easy!
If your a lazy UT bowhunter (look at that, to give out to type the state) you may want to join BOU. Check out thier web sight.
BB
It's true that some hunters many not fill their holes, or take care of the country, but it also true that many 4 wheeler don't honor the rules and regulations and the damage is far greater.
Like I've mentioned, I've never hunted antelope in Utah and don't plan on it soon or until these stupid regulations get changed.
I've hunted Wyoming many a time. I've never once had a blind problem up there. I drew out up there this year and returned to three different places we had blinds the last time I hunted there in 2002. Only one of the three areas had a blind built there since I hunted it in 2002. So there are places around that are just waiting for someone to hunt them, if they care to look.
Incidentally, the one waterhole that had blinds built there since I left it in 2002, was very near a road. (Small wonder huh!)
I just think bowhunter’s should have every right everyone else has to use the land as long as they do it with respect. If we take away privileges because someone fails to fill their hole, then all four wheelers and ranchers and everyone else would not be able to use public lands, as their will ALWAYS be a few bad apples in every group.
Each person has decide where and how he wants to hunt. I will honor a guy with a blind or a stand or one making a stalk on a critter, even though the critter he hunts is not his until he places his tag upon it. I know others see differently and that’s fine too.
Have a great bowhunt. BB
;-D
I would hope that we all as outdoorsmen be it bowhunters, ATV users, hikers, bikers, photographers or any other classification that spends time on our public lands would obey the laws as they are written.
It does not really matter if we agree with the law or not, my personal opinion is child molesters are no different than a coyote, shoot them on site, no seasons or bag limits. When we go to an extreme one way or the other we tend to end up with extreme outcomes ( laws )
Do we have these laws changed by just obeying the ones we agree with and disreguarding the ones we don't?? No, it's kind of hard to get anything done from a jail cell and if we keep abusing the intent behind the law you are just adding bricks to the foundation for strengthening the absurd law.
Bowhunters of Utah is not perfect and NEVER will be but I can promise you we will ALWAYS support the laws governing our outdoors and wildlife. Where as a Board of Directors do we draw the line?? Is tresspassing OK but poaching is not?? Is driving across a closed meadow on an atv considered OK but shooting from a road taboo?? If laws need to be changed BOU will work to do what we can. Things are not going to change immediately and just because we have different opinions on the same matter dodesn't mean we can't sit down like men and hammer things out. This oraginzation will never have 100% agreement with everyone involved there are too many people and too many issues involved to meet every persons need all of the time. Just know that all decisions made by BOU follow two basic guidlines; is it good for wildlife and is it good for bowhunters! If you agree I would hope you would consider joining on if you don't BOU probably isn't the group for you.
If I can answer questions from anybody please don't hesitate to call
Gordy 801-597-4416
Thanks BB. I always welcome your thoughts. We will be heading to Wyoming also for a doe antelope hunt next month. We'll likely become one of those who hunt near the road as we will only get up there once prior to the hunt. We are on private ground however and that may make a difference.
I too will honor a guy with a stand or blind or making a stalk. But leaving a note and claiming he has sole right to the area for the entire hunting season is beyond belief and that gets nothing from me. That is exactly what the note stated at the blind I bumped into. You can bet that if the blind were not there, the note would not have been left. (The blind was left from the previous year and who knows for sure if it had been there the year prior to that also)
We'll have to share lies and stories this winter during the leagues. I'm sure I'll be over to shoot the Wed league a few times.
The "law" or rules are much like our U.S. Constitution, it is a great framework to start with, but realistically something that was written over 200 years ago cannot and will not apply to every situation or issue in this day and age. That is why laws are ammended, ommitted, and continue to be changed as a living document.
I happen to agree with Bill (BB's) sentiments on public land use and homemade treestands, etc...
I think the BLM and Forest Service have bigger issues in attempting to control the ATV's and off-roaders which go where they please even though in many areas it is unlawful to be going where they do.
I would much rather walk into a canyon and find an "illegal" treestand hanging over a waterhole 3 miles from the nearest road, than to be sitting there hunting it and some slob, lazy, law breaking ATV or motorcyle rider comes riding up because they don't have the courtesy to obey the posted roads laws.
Just my $.02
I guess if it is unlawful to dig a pit blind, or to hang a homemade treestand in Utah, one would have to "risk" breaking the law if they choose to do so. However, if the Utah resources for enforcing the laws are anything like they are here in Colorado, I doubt that someone like BB will ever see an officer or Game Official 3 miles back in, unless they are using their "special priveledge" and show up on their ATV, because chances are these things will go unnoticed and the only ones noticing is ourselves. As Bill suggests, take care of our lands, and respect it and these problems are not really an issue.
No offense to the USFS or Division of Wildlife guys, especially since my father-in-law is a District Ranger with the USFS for the past 32 years, and some of the guys we hunt with are Division of Wildlife Officers.
Fact is, there are only a handful of people out there enforcing these "laws", and many of them are sportsmen such as ourselves that when faced with situations look at things and have some discretion out in the field to do not only their duty, but to do what they feel is morally and legally impactful.
Could these two "men" have handled this differently?? I would have hoped they would have but unfortunately they did not and now apparently we are caught up in choosing sides between two good "men" and are basing our opinion of a young organization on the same criteria.
I wish I would have had the chance to have a discussion about this issue before a post was put out in a public forum and people became riled up over a supposed stance that does not exist.
BOU has been asked to provide input on a situation that has a direct effect on the area you will be chasing speedgoats next week. I will be meeting with the people at SITLA on Tuesday to provide input concerning an agreement that is set to expire in Sept of 2007 between SITLA and the UT DWR.
I would urge everyone reading this to gain as much knowledge as possible on this situation. Not to say the other issue of to blind/stand or not to blind/stand is not important because it is. But if you guys need something to rally around that actually means something more than his opinion vs my opinion here ya go boy's.
LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-06 AT 11:17 PM (MST) Ok, I've been on one lately---really need to go hunting!!!
Anyway, what do you guys in Colorado think about the Utah invented "Finders Fee"? Heck, what do us Utards Is it acceptable to you? Remember, these Governors Tags raise a lot of money.
Does it portray "hunting" wrong? Should a fee like that be put into play to motivate people to share what they know?
Is finding a deer via think of it?
hefty "Finders Fee" ethical?
If you had the money, would you pay a "Finders Fee" in hopes of killing a super buck or bull?
Finders Fee = Guides who have contracts with clients who have bought statewide tags (Governors Tags) will sometimes offer to the hunting public a "Finders Fee" (usually $10,000 or so) for telling them where a super buck or bull is that they ultimately kill. Basically, offering a "Finders Fee" allows the main guide to employ hundreds, if not thousands, of people to search for a trophy buck or bull. Finding huge animals is VERY hard for just 4-6 guides, as really big bucks and bulls are few and far between.
Brian Latturner
For more details, see thelink above.
Have a great bowhunt. BB
BB's Link
Have a great bowhunt BB
BB's Link
The SITLA mandate is to generate funds from this property. I will know the SITLA stance tomorrow after about 10:00 am.
I will leave it to you to take it from there.
http://www.utahtrustlands.com/about/
Good luck, Robb
As for if it is legal to build or put one up, check with the local BLM districts and State land laws where you are hunting. I don't care how ridiculous you think they are fallow the laws/regulations. If you don't like them find ways to try and get them changed. If people just quit fallowing laws/regulations they think are dumb the world goes in a bad direction.
I’ve also never been able to find an official BLM law or regulation regarding blinds on the land they manage but have had decent success calling the BLM office closest to the area I’m hunting asking for guidance. Several years ago Idaho BLM published a guideline for Idaho BLM land that I’ll see if I can find,
Tilzbow's Link
