Moultrie Products
Moose broadhead debate
Moose
Contributors to this thread:
medicinemann 27-May-07
bb 27-May-07
Dave Bent Arrow 27-May-07
Turk 27-May-07
medicinemann 27-May-07
medicinemann 27-May-07
Turk 27-May-07
medicinemann 27-May-07
Turk 27-May-07
medicinemann 27-May-07
Turk 27-May-07
Marc 27-May-07
Matt 27-May-07
medicinemann 27-May-07
alaska1171 28-May-07
goosie 28-May-07
oldhootowl 28-May-07
Seeking Trad Deer 28-May-07
Ki-Ke 28-May-07
TAC 28-May-07
Rackman 28-May-07
Deflatem 28-May-07
Grizzly 28-May-07
Archerontario 28-May-07
azdogman 28-May-07
Toby 29-May-07
Stillhunter 29-May-07
chip 29-May-07
BB 30-May-07
loesshillsarcher 30-May-07
ringless 30-May-07
Bullhound 30-May-07
Treeline @ work 30-May-07
DoubleRR 07-Jun-07
DoubleRR 07-Jun-07
Broken Arrow 07-Jun-07
Ak Ultratec 07-Jun-07
Bogsucker 07-Jun-07
Genesis 07-Jun-07
Mike Sohm/Magnus 07-Jun-07
oldhootowl 07-Jun-07
scndwfstlhntng 07-Jun-07
medicinemann 08-Jun-07
Grizz 15-Jun-07
Vance in AK. 16-Jun-07
elmer 16-Jun-07
Sully 16-Jun-07
dennisomfs 26-Jun-07
im-ocd 27-Jun-07
BUCKeye 27-Jun-07
im-ocd 27-Jun-07
oldhootowl 27-Jun-07
Deflatem 27-Jun-07
Trophy8@work 27-Jun-07
oldhootowl 27-Jun-07
Coastie John 27-Jun-07
oldhootowl 27-Jun-07
oldhootowl 27-Jun-07
oldhootowl 27-Jun-07
Mathews Man 27-Jun-07
JimG 28-Jun-07
Stillhunter 28-Jun-07
JimG 28-Jun-07
New York Bowman 28-Jun-07
oldhootowl 28-Jun-07
oldhootowl 28-Jun-07
im-ocd 29-Jun-07
oldhootowl 29-Jun-07
Bogsucker 29-Jun-07
oldhootowl 29-Jun-07
Ak Ultratec 29-Jun-07
Bogsucker 29-Jun-07
im-ocd 29-Jun-07
oldhootowl 29-Jun-07
oldhootowl 29-Jun-07
Trophy8@work 29-Jun-07
oldhootowl 29-Jun-07
oldhootowl 29-Jun-07
Trophy8 29-Jun-07
oldhootowl 29-Jun-07
Stekewood 29-Jun-07
oldhootowl 29-Jun-07
JRW 30-Jun-07
ArrowShooter 09-Jul-07
Stillhunter 09-Jul-07
SnapDragon 09-Jul-07
Stillhunter 09-Jul-07
im-ocd 09-Jul-07
Stillhunter 09-Jul-07
Stillhunter 09-Jul-07
TXHunter 09-Jul-07
ny2ut2id 09-Jul-07
oldhootowl 09-Jul-07
bb 09-Jul-07
chip 09-Jul-07
oldhootowl 10-Jul-07
Grizz 10-Jul-07
bb 10-Jul-07
JRW 14-Jul-07
medicinemann 14-Jul-07
Turk 15-Jul-07
oldhootowl 15-Jul-07
medicinemann 15-Jul-07
Stillhunter 16-Jul-07
Bou'bound 16-Oct-19
BighornRam 03-Nov-19
BighornRam 03-Nov-19
Charlie Rehor 03-Nov-19
GF 03-Nov-19
t-roy 03-Nov-19
From: medicinemann
27-May-07
I have a September Moose bowhunt in Newfoundland. You guys know the drill, I shoot a reasonably high poundage bow (>90 pound draw weight).......because the wind can get pretty blustery up there, I know that I will want to minimize the distance.....but if I needed a follow-up shot, it might be at 40+ yards. I like mechanical broadheads for thin skinned animals because they fly identical to my target tips. I like fixed-blade cut-on impact broadheads for their penetration. The problem is that (in my opinion) mechanical broadheads seem to sacrifice some penetration (because of their design), while fixed blade broadheads just simply do not fly the same as target tips (at least not from my bow). I can paper tune until the cows come home, and they simply don't fly as true - for whatever reason.

Should I use fixed blades and keep the distances as short as possible? Or use mechanicals because the poundage will still provide sufficient KE for good penetration even at somewhat longer distances?

Jake

From: bb
27-May-07
You are more likely going to get very close shots anyway as the areas where you are likely to encounter them are very thick. You will more likely measure your shots in feet rather than yards. I have used 90 gr. Muzzy on them with good luck and 100 gr Snuffer and Stingers. It seldom seems that the wind is calm up there but I didn't have any problems with fixed B/H due to the wind.

27-May-07
I was in Newfoundland last fall. The only opportunity I had was at a large bull at 40 yards in the woods. I shoot a recurve and was not comfortable with 40 yards. I needed to get 10 yards closer. Didn't happen.

I would sight in for the fixed blade. Who cares where your target tips hit while hunting.

We actually saw quite a lot of moose in the open. DAVE

From: Turk
27-May-07
Jake,

After getting a great moose tag last year I upgraded to a heavier arrow and broadhead worrying about penetration. After seeing the reviews about the slick trick broadheads I decided to give them a try. I would shoot four arrow groups, first shot would be a slick trick, followed by three field points. I was confident out to 50 yards. The broadheads and field points grouped great. I have had good results with other heads out to 30 or 40 yards, but was very happy with the slick tricks.

Good luck with whatever you use, Scott

From: medicinemann
27-May-07
Scott,

Did you have the opportunity to shoot a moose? If so, can you tell anything about the penetration?

Jake

From: medicinemann
27-May-07
Scott,

Did you have the opportunity to shoot a moose? If so, can you tell anything about the penetration?

Jake

From: Turk
27-May-07
Jake, yes I took a broad side shot at 28 yards and hit high double lung and had a complete pass thru.

From: medicinemann
27-May-07
What poundage?

From: Turk
27-May-07
I shot at 69 pounds, a very old round wheel compound. 30-7/8" easton axis 340 arrow, with 125 grain slick trick broadheads.

From: medicinemann
27-May-07
Complete pass through, mechanical broadhead, 69 pound bow.....you've just answered my question.........

From: Turk
27-May-07
Slick tricks are not mechanical. http://www.slicktrick.net/

From: Marc
27-May-07
A good friend of mine has killed 27 moose. He always uses as heavy a broadhead as possible and would no more think of shooting a moose with a mechanical than a field tip. Sure it can be done and has been but why take the chance. We're talking 1,000 pounds+. Not a whitetail. Like suggesting you shoot an elephant with a .243. Might work but why take the chance.

From: Matt
27-May-07
Presuming your arrow is quite heavy, I more moderate cutting diameter MBH should work fine for you.

Or better yet, tune with Slick Tricks and then carry a few of those and a couple of MBH's as well. Presuming your arrows are well built and properly spined, and your bow is properly tuned they should shoot to within "minute of moose"-sized groups at any reasonable distance.

From: medicinemann
27-May-07
I have always preferred a cut on contact fixed blade broadhead...like the Steel Force. HOWEVER, if the Slick Tricks fly like my target tips, I'll GLADLY switch to a chisel tip for this hunt. Steel Force broadheads have killed a lot of animals for me, but they aren't the toughest broadhead that I have ever shot.

If the Slick Tricks really fly like my target tips, I'll give them a whirl.

From: alaska1171
28-May-07
"I have always preferred a cut on contact fixed blade broadhead"

I shoot Tricks and they fly the same as my FT and Penetrate just fine.

But if you want a cut on contact head why not shoot a Stinger ? They fly the same as a field point out of a tuned bow .

good luck on your hunt

From: goosie
28-May-07
I know a lot of moose outfitters who won't allow mech's in their camp. I also know of guys that have killed moose with mech's.

We have a hunt planned in Sept this year and will be using the Montec's and may even try out the G5 Strikers.

For me, it's fixed blade only for moose.

From: oldhootowl
28-May-07
The 125 Standard Trick has super penetration, along with strength, and it will fly. Plus you get a 4 blade hole. Everything you want for a big critter. Go to slicktrick.net and scroll down and look at the critters on the SLICK TRICK PICS section that guys have sent. Africa PHs love Tricks and recommend them, along with everybody else.

28-May-07
Magnus 2 blade broadheads...nuff said. Arrow of 500 grains minimum. No worries...go with this and you won't be worrying before you release.

From: Ki-Ke
28-May-07
"Magnus 2 blade broadheads...nuff said"

Statements like that amaze me. Perhaps it's me, but it sounds like you're saying, "I've now spoken. Now you have THE answer to your question. Go forth and slay. My way. The ONLY way!"

Give me a break!!

From: TAC
28-May-07
Any of the above will likely work with a well placed shot. I have used 3 blade Muzzies with good results. Broke one rib on the way to a pass thru at 4 yards, on another moose, I broke a rib on the way in, and lodged in the off shoulder. Not too sure how a mech would have fared smashing into the rib bone, but I'll never test that one out. As for my broadheads grouping exactly with my field points, I have never felt the need to get there. I know the field points are pretty close, but my broadheads group tightly out to 40 yards, and I don't even shoot field points after the middle of August.

THERE - NOW it is settled. Nuff said! ;^)

TAC

From: Rackman
28-May-07
My friend was drew a once in a lifetime moose tag in washington state, He shot a huge bull moose using Tight Point broadheads and they did the trick. Bull went 80 yards and piled up. Very exciting

From: Deflatem
28-May-07
I like the tight point shuttle T. Shoots well, Kills well.

From: Grizzly
28-May-07
Medicinemann: My turn to return a favor. First; the turkey recipe and grilling turned out excellent! Thank You Second; Try Montecs, I shoot the 100 gr BHs and they shoot to the same point of impact as my field points out to 50+ yards. Montec also makes 125 gr, an MJC Archery, my pro shop also stocks 140 gr Montecs. The owner and his asst. just returned from NB and with 60# compounds and both put them (140 gr)through bears. One buried so far in a tree behind the bear, all they could do was unscrewed the arrow. Duane

28-May-07

Archerontario's embedded Photo
Archerontario's embedded Photo
i have taken a couple of moose and i use a 100 grain rocket steelhead, for the most part i have taken reasonable shots 22 and 34 yards. bot have been pass throughs and both moose expired in under 50 yards. i had this discussion with our moose hunting group last year and 1 person in our group who has never shot any thing bigger than a deer was spouting off that mechicals wont work on moose so when we left for our moose hunt buddy shows up shooting fixed heads that flew like cork screws and all the while bashing mechanicals. now i am not in any way knocking fixed heads but if you are comfortable shooting mechs they will do just fine but if your haveing trouble getting you fixed heads to fly why limit your shooing distance normally 40 and in. secondly 90 lbs is fine if you can hold it but you definatly dont need to shoot that heavy poundage. i have taken many big game animals at 70 lbs i have seen too many guies try to shoot too heavy of poundage and suffer from injuries and accuracy but if you feel you can hold that more power too you good luck in your hunt

From: azdogman
28-May-07
if you want to use mechanical heads try something like the tekan 2 by g5 or one designed the same and they penatrate the same as fixed. I haze shot 8 elk with mechs and have no problem at all with penatration and personaly i plan on using vortex on moose next year and im sure they will be fine judging from what i have seen them do to elk. My dad used vortex on his moose last year and had no problems.

From: Toby
29-May-07
I will be using a Thunderhead 125 in the Yukon in 4 months!!!! I am sure they will work perfect as the did with my eland in Africa!!!!

From: Stillhunter
29-May-07
I have taken moose at 40+ yards with a 70lb. bow and a fixed head and achieved a complete passthrough.

The key is to be well tuned and good shot placement.

I would also highly recommend the Slicktrick for moose.

From: chip
29-May-07
Jake-After your fiasco up north with your bear hunt I think you should not worry about your broadhead as with the poundage you shoot most heads will do the job but come up with a plan B in case things go wrong on this hunt. If you fly you are taking Air Canada and they suck. I have been on 2 hunts to NF and both times the gun case or the cloths did not make it up with me. Love checking into a motel with NO baggage. Always a great feeling. Learn how to make a spear and throw it while hunting in your Fruit of the Looms. What outfit are you hunting with? Take care-Chip

From: BB
30-May-07
The last two moose I've taken were both taken with a snuffer. Both were complete pass thru's and both critters died in a very short distance.

From the standpoint of killing a critter, there is not a better broadhead on today's market than a sharp snuffer. If you don't want to go the heavy route (which I would suggest on moose) then try the new, smaller Snuffer SS. I would even be happy to sharpen those snuffer for you free of charge to anyone who killed a polar bear.

I too will be hunting moose this fall and will be trusting my hunt to a sharp snuffer.

Have a great bowhunt BB

30-May-07
Jake, I killed my moose with a Montec at 24 yards. I like them alot. Killed my musk ox at 20 yards with the new Snuffer ss. I like them alot also. Killed my polar bear with a Snyper mechanical. I won't shoot any other type of mechanical. They are awesome. When we caped out the moose, I was surprised at how thick skinned they are. I would shoot a fixed blade for sure. Just my thoughts. Ned

From: ringless
30-May-07
Shuttle T-Lock hands down!

Built to out-perform out-dated designs, sturdy, straight, they weight exactly what they say they do, also built for ultra speed for todays faster bows, & will last forever.

You wont be sorry.

Ask the whole staff of Bowtech. 2 years of Africa animals, no complaints.

D.

From: Bullhound
30-May-07
I killed my moose with a 3 blade Muzzy and was a pass through. This out of a 75# bow and shooting GT 7595's. Found the arrow 25 yards behind where the bull was standing when the arrow went through. Actualy founf it sticking out of the ground when begginning the haul out of the first load of meat!

I think you pretty well know that you can kill cleanly with most of the BH's mentioned in this thread. It's what you are comfortable with is what you'll end up using.

30-May-07
At >90# compound, you could use just about anything and get a pass-thru.

Question is, do you want to risk a mechanical failure?

Sounds like you don't, or at least have some hesitancy with the concept. Also sounds like you are probably getting decent acuracy out there to 40 yards. Probably better than I can at 20 with my longbow.

I'd recommend a COC broadhead with 3 or 4 blades for a good, short blood trail. That said, the regular old Snuffer is a great broadhead. The Wensel is another great one. Have killed lots of critters with both. You do have to work on them quite a bit to get them straight and sharpened, though.

I think that the new Razor Caps are the best broadhead out there these days. They are adjustable for weight from 100, 125, 150, 175 or 200 grains, come sharp, super tough, and are perfectly straight. Killed an elk, an antelope, and three whitetails last year with no complaints other than they are hard to re-sharpen. Trick is to use diamond stones because the stainless steel is so hard.

From: DoubleRR
07-Jun-07
Checkout for some interesting results on broadhead testing....fixed, mechanicals and traditonal heads.....

From: DoubleRR
07-Jun-07
sorry the Archers Edge address was blocked out

From: Broken Arrow
07-Jun-07
I tested 25 broadheads for an article for Bow & Arrow Hunting Magazine - published as "Passing The Test"in their October 2002 issue - Volume 40, No.8

Three things of interest came out of the tests:

1. Most mechanical broadheads had very small entry holes -- You need a pass-through to have a good blood trail with most of these heads.

2. Cut-on-impact blades had the best penetration. One surprise was that the average penetration for four-blade heads was almost the same as for three-blade heads. This is because all three-blade heads had either tocar, conical, or pyramid points out in front of the blades. Of course, the four-blade heads had about 33% more total cut.

Having said this, since the articly was written some new 'cut-on-impact' three-blade heads have come out on the market. These may have better penetration.

3. In the torture tests mechanical heads were much more prone to mechanical failure that were the fixed-blade heads.

The heads tested were all 100-grain heads and used with the same arrows.

Moose are big animals. I recommend a cut-on-impact head -- and you should get about the same penetration with a four-blade as with a three-blade.

For those who want to go the menhanical route I would recommend the 125 grain First-Cut EXP -- It has a fixed blade of 1 1/8 inches guaranteeing a good entry hole, and two mechanical blades which follow the fixed blade with a cut of 1 3/8 inches at right angles to the fixed-blade cut.

If you are hell-bent on using mechanicals then at least try them out with some tests of your own -- make sure the one you like has a good entry hole and that it can stay together when hitting something more solid. You owe this much to the moose.

07-Jun-07
Hey Jake,

For my 2c...I've killed 5 moose with a bow, all with fixed blade heads, most with Muzzy and have had pass throughs on some, and quick kills with the others. I would never consider a mech for moose either...and I believe it's still illegal in AK to use them for moose anyway. I like a strong broad head that will be more forgiving if I happen to penetrate a shoulder blade or hit a rib square. Good luck bud!

From: Bogsucker
07-Jun-07
Pat, I thought your 800 grain arrow was at 115 fps for 23 ft-lbs KE!!!

Jake, I'd be more concerned with broadhead durability if I were shooting 90 lbs.

From: Genesis
07-Jun-07
Shot my Alaskan with a 100 gr Thunderhead on 70 lbs,30 yard recovery

07-Jun-07
guys, I personally believe if you use our stinger or stinger buzzcut on moose you will be very pleased with the performance, woody sanford our r&d enginneer as taken alot of moose living in alaska and his results have been great. we also have had alot of bowhunters shoot our broadheads and have great success on moose. Steve sims owner of limbsavers took a monster moose last fall using the 100 grain stinger 4 blade. lifetime replacement guarantee. thank you

From: oldhootowl
07-Jun-07
Just put a nice Montana moose up on the Slick Trick Pics at slicktrick.net. Pats bull is incredible.

07-Jun-07
Robertson Falcon recurve at about 15 yards. 60# and a 525 grain arrow with a 2 blade Magnus. Thru the heart and stuck in the off side shoulder. Didn't go far: died in view. It really is the same old story. Pick what you want and take a good shot. A sharp broadhead in the right spot will do it all the time. A sharp broadhead in a marginal area is a marginal shot. Take a quality shot and practice shooting. Don't fixate on the broadhead: it is a waste of time.

Steve

From: medicinemann
08-Jun-07
Steve,

With the exception of one caribou and this year's polar bear....every animal in my game room is a one arrow kill. I agree with you completely....a sharp broadhead in the right spot WILL do it every time.

Unfortunately, this is not a perfect world, and I am not a perfect shot. I shoot as many arrows as any dedicated archer that I know (probably more than most, now that I have more free time), and yet the potential will always exist for a less than perfect shot. It is because of this animals size, that I wanted to "test the waters" regarding broadhead types via this forum.

I am just thankful that there have been so many helpful posts. I have heard many valid points discussing the merits of various broadhead types. Now it is simply time to select the one that I am most comfortable with......

Jake

From: Grizz
15-Jun-07
Great thread boys,some great moose hunting advice and the day will come for me and I'll be there with a 57# recurve and SHARP magnus two blades!!!

From: Vance in AK.
16-Jun-07
Not that it's relevant to your hunt but AK Ultratech is right, the state of AK outlawed mechanicals for moose & brown bear. Personaly I wouldn't consider one anyway, but then again I'm a longbow guy. My one moose was a Shirus taken in Montana with a 63# @ 27" (my draw) Pronghorn. Total arrow weight was 535 & I was using a modoc two blade cut on contact. I got a pass hrough at just undr 30 yds just touching ribs on both sides, both lungs & the heart. Since moving to Alaska I've switched to heavier arrows (650ish gr)& this year I'll be trying Wensel Woodsman 3 blades.

From: elmer
16-Jun-07
I've shot 3 alaskan moose and my buddy has shot 4. All 7 have been taken with thunderhead 125's. My three were at 35,30 and 25 yards. one was a 60 inch bull, one 56 and the other a spike. I shoot 65 lbs with easton 2315's and a 29 inch draw length. My bow shoots 235 fps. All 3 hit ribs on the close side but stayed in tact. 1 went completely through on the spike. one lodged in the far shoulder blade and the last took out liver and both lungs and hit a rib on the far side. all 3 survived intact. longest trailing was 50 yard. I've known 4 people who have tried mechanicals on moose and all 4 had the mechanicals blow up on hitting a rib on the way in. I've heard of someone using mechanicals successfully but have not personally met or know anyone who would.

Based on my experience and that of my acquaintances, it makes me say NO WAY IN HE** would I ever use a mechanical on moose.

just my 4 cents(with inflation rising may be my 6 cents by the time you read this)

One other thing comes to mind. If I was paying the big bucks to have a guided trip that would make me say even more emphatically no to a mechanical. Why take the chance on just wounding when you've spent all that money?

From: Sully
16-Jun-07

Sully's embedded Photo
Sully's embedded Photo
While I'm not as old school as Pat I have to agree with staying away from mechanincal broadheads and shooting a solid name brand fixblade !

The Moose in the picture I took with a 100 gr Muzzy , 70 lbs bow and 440 gr arrow.

From: dennisomfs
26-Jun-07
,,,,for strength with a mechanical, the best we tested was the steelhead...only mechanical to hold up and pass thru a cape buffalo rib cage with a high poundage bow (90+), and since you are shooting high poundage, I would think that might be the best choice in mechanical.... Jakhammers have taken a number of 70" moose that I personally know of,too. I'm taking the Wasp SST Boss to Alaska this year plus the new cabela's Copperhead since fixed are required, otherwise I'd use my favorite 100 gr. steelhead from 67#'s at 300fps...good luck

From: im-ocd
27-Jun-07
Broken Arrow wrote: "I tested 25 broadheads for an article for Bow & Arrow Hunting Magazine - published as "Passing The Test"in their October 2002 issue - Volume 40, No.8

Three things of interest came out of the tests:

1. Most mechanical broadheads had very small entry holes -- You need a pass-through to have a good blood trail with most of these heads.

2. Cut-on-impact blades had the best penetration. One surprise was that the average penetration for four-blade heads was almost the same as for three-blade heads. This is because all three-blade heads had either tocar, conical, or pyramid points out in front of the blades. Of course, the four-blade heads had about 33% more total cut."

I have the article, very interesting test. I like reading the results of broadhead penetration tests.

The best fixed heads went 14 15/16'' they were the Game Tracker First Cut, and the Wasp Hammer SST. Next was the G5 with 14 12/16''

The rocket Steelhead went 14 4/16'' which was better than many of the other fixed heads, including the Muzzy 3 and 4 blade, Thunderhead, and even slightly better than the Steelforce.

It did make a smaller entry hole.

It's odd that even when tests demonstrate that a certain mechanical like the Steelhead penetrates as well or better than a fixed head people continue to give the same advice. ie... use a fixed head.

Archerontario told of his results on two moose with steelheads and no one seemed to notice; he had passthrough shots on both.

I have not shot a Moose, but if I get the opportunity to go I shall use a Rocket Steelhead. Field point flight, reasonable cutting diameter, and penetration all in one tidy package.

Interesting thing about that issue of Bow & Arrow Hunting is another story in the same magazine by Brandon Ray called, "Go Light For Deer." He told of his success with lightweight arrows on deer and hogs.

I see the same negative comments often made about light arrows as are made about mechanical heads; likely the people who discredit certain equipment have not even tried it.

From: BUCKeye
27-Jun-07
I'm with BB. Whenever I finally draw a moose tag, you can bet I'll have a snuffer on the end of my arrow.

From: im-ocd
27-Jun-07

im-ocd's Link
The Steelheads perform very well in plywood. Check the link to a test.

From: oldhootowl
27-Jun-07
Plywood actually does a good job of imitating bone. If a head doesn't penetrate and breaks in plywood you can expect the same thing to be reported in the field, relative to hit and energy used. And that only makes sense. For instance, a large diameter head will penetrate less and be more prone to damage than a moderate diameter head. Thats just physics.

But tests have to be conducted properly to mimic field results.

Things aren't always as they seem. If field results don't mesh with a test something is amiss. Guys looking at that test and the fixed heads and mechs know thats not what they see in the field in terms of penetration and strength.

So whats amiss???

To test a mech in plywood the blades should be open when it hits. Otherwise the blades aren't meeting resistance like the fixed heads. Hide and flesh are supposed to open mechs so when they get to bone the blades would impact same as a fixed. In other words the strength and penetration of the mech blades aren't being tested as they are not open through the plywood.

Put something in front of the mechs to insure they are fully open before they hit the plywood and then you will get a fair comparison with fixed blades as to what you will see on animals.

Then guys who have shot both will tell you the results mirror what they have seen in the field.

From: Deflatem
27-Jun-07
I would pick the razor sharp one. Stick it through both lungs. That should do it.

From: Trophy8@work
27-Jun-07
Very simple..plywood is not close to the density makeup of bone and will react differently at impact. Plywood has glue and other material which when heated by friction causes it to grip.

From: oldhootowl
27-Jun-07
Deflatem has it figured out. Good choice of monikers.

Well, others can choose a head that won't penetrate plywood and loses blades or bends ferrules if they want to.

I'll go with the head that penetrates and stays intact.

27-Jun-07
I'm going on my first hunt in Sept.

I would think a quality, layered foam target would simulate the density of chest cavity fairly well, minus rib bone of course.

Plywood maybe if you plan on using the shoulder blade or leg bone as a target.

I guess it comes full circle back to shot placement??

My "never been moose hunting" opinion. ;-)

From: oldhootowl
27-Jun-07
LOL Having plenty of fun, and so are guys laying down critters with heads that test well.

From: oldhootowl
27-Jun-07
LOL. I'm not the one called Woody.

From: oldhootowl
27-Jun-07
I bow to your greatness.

From: Mathews Man
27-Jun-07
Jake, I have never shot a moose, but I am sold on Muzzy's performance. I've never had a performance problem with Muzzy.

They make a new model with heavy duty blades. That would be my recommendation.

Regardless of your choice, I hope your hunt is a very memorable one for you. Best of luck.

Scottie

From: JimG
28-Jun-07
I have taken five bulls with Thunderhead 125's. I hunt from a tree stand and none of the shots have been a great distance. 7yds, 9yds, 7yds, 2yds and 6 yds. I have had the two at 7 yards pass completely through. 9 yds hung up in the off shoulder. 2yds was directly under my stand and I could have just about kicked him in the antlers. I took out one lung and got the heart. 6 yds was broadside and the only reason I didn't get total pass through was due to the fact that I had changed to carbon arrows and didn't have enough push to get totally through. I am shooting a 65# compound. I hunt in Northwest Ontario with four other guys that have taken four bulls between them and they were all with Thunderhead 125's.

JimG

From: Stillhunter
28-Jun-07
I would agree that plywood is a pretty good way to determine a heads durability with bone, if a head is coming apart through plywood you don't want to be shooting it at Moose. I have shot quite a few different head designs through plywood, rubber, steel drums, etc., and I'm convinced that a short but stout steel ferrule with a trocar style tip is what you want when encountering bone, especially on a less than perfect shot when you might not be in the boiler room. Actual hunting experience has backed up the test results.

Not being able to use mechs on Moose or any big game animal in my home state of Idaho is a good policy IMO.

From: JimG
28-Jun-07
BUCKeye

Send me an e mail pytracker1@juno.com and I'll help you if I can.

Good Luck

Jim

28-Jun-07

New York Bowman's embedded Photo
New York Bowman's embedded Photo
I'm also with Pat and am old school. Fixed head and heavy arrow. I choose this route because I am not a perfect shot. My setup gives me the best opportunity for a kill IF something goes wrong. Alaskan moose have an amazingly thick hide and really big ribs. I killed mine in 2002 with a Snuffer.

From: oldhootowl
28-Jun-07
Hes not a "rebal", hes just a traditional shooter. And a fixed head and a heavy arrow is certainly killing tools, as has been proven through history.

And Snuffer results with plywood does reflect that of animals. Any old schooler trad shooter who has used big old Snuffers will tell you if you hit hard bone you will not penetrate as well as other heads. Same as plywood. You can do searches on here and see guys shooting Snuffers say just that.

No need to make silly assertions that implies plywood testing shows a traditional setup won't kill.

I will quote Deflatem. "I would pick the razor sharp one. Stick it through both lungs. That should do it."

Which is precisely what New York Bowman did.

Funny how some people try to make something out of nothing.

From: oldhootowl
28-Jun-07
Just don't try to say anybody made claims they didn't. And as far as your moose ribs, a Trick Mag will do the same thing through a Cape Buff rib as it will plywood, blow a hole right through. Shoot all the carcasses you want, there are thousands more guys in the field shooting live critters seeing real penetration who can't be silenced or wowed by what some self proclaimed professionals says.

From: im-ocd
29-Jun-07

im-ocd's Link
Okay if we go with the assumption that moose ribs / bones are tougher than plywood.....

Are they tougher than steel? :-)

Broadhead tests conducted by 5shot on steel drums.

www.broadheadtest.com

Magnus Stinger 2 blade: "it went through the first side with 3/4 of the head sticking out the back"

Magnus Stinger 4 blade: "the head busted through the first wall with the tip penetrating up to the front of the bleeders"

Steel force Premium 4 blade: "it got through one side and bounced off the back"

Muzzy 3 blade: "went through the first side, with the tip and the front part of the blades sticking through the backside"

Rocket Steelhead 125: "the head penetrated both sides, with only minor bending of the blades"

If you are going after really tough animals, with bones harder than plywood, you need the broadhead that penetrated BOTH sides of the steel drum (a mechanical).... Rocket Steelhead 125 :-)

From: oldhootowl
29-Jun-07
Actually you need the 4 blade broadhead that penetrated BOTH sides of the steel drum WITH a full size entry hole AND was UNDAMAGED(a fixed)....

www.broadheadtests.com

Steel Drum: full penetration of both sides, no damage.

SLICK TRICK 100 STANDARD

Thats a moose broadhead, no doubt about it.

From: Bogsucker
29-Jun-07
How about you all read Dr. Ashby's reports. The reports present the results of hundreds of shots on real animals, not plywood or steel drums.

From: oldhootowl
29-Jun-07
Ashbys reports tell you that a heavier arrow penetrates more than a lighter one, and the less you cut the more you penetrate.

What pretty much everybody agrees on. And those tests were done 20 years ago before the superior heads of today.

They favor a heavy 2 blade head for maximum penetration. A 2 blade head has more potential for penetration because it cuts less and has less chance of encountering bone.

If you are hunting African game with a longbow that is a good choice. However, with a compound bow you will do well with a reasonable diameter multibladed head that penetrates well to make a more open hole to cut arteries and veins for a quick kill and bloodtrail. Thats why 90% of bowhunters are using 3 or 4 blade heads.

Guys going to Africa call to order Tricks saying that is what their PH told them to bring. You can bet a Africa PH has experience with big game and penetration and knows what will get the job done, and is not being paid by anybody to push heads. Or at least they aren't getting paid to push mine, nor is anybody else.

29-Jun-07
Woody...usually I'm with you bud, we both live in AK and have shot our share of moose...but I don't understand your point. Forgive me, it's been a long week so I could just be going nuts now that's its Friday...but are you saying that a Slick Trick wouldn't work on moose?

I don't see how a Slick Trick, because of their design, wouldn't do the same thing on a moose that a Muzzy would do. I totally agree with the points regarding the useage of a fixed blade head on moose though.

From: Bogsucker
29-Jun-07
One of Ashby's latest reports "Arrow Lethality Study Update - 2005, Part V" includes broadhead durability.

From: im-ocd
29-Jun-07
oldhootowl: you got me with the Slick Trick standard.

I've shot the Slick Trick standard at 305 F.P.S. and it flew with my field points at 30 yards. It would be a great choice and so would the Wasp Boss Bullet.

I just get sick of the same blanket statement about mechanicals not penetrating as well, or not being as durable as a fixed head. The Steelhead is better than or equal to many fixed heads. I cannot fault the Boss Bullet or Slick Trick if one wants to use a fixed head.

From: oldhootowl
29-Jun-07
I understand im, and agree with the blanket statements, and you are correct that Steelheads will bring them down, as experience has proven.

From: oldhootowl
29-Jun-07
Tell PHs in Africa they have no "expirience" and are only playing with artificial crap and guessing.

As well as all the guys on here who are blowing heads through stuff.

All you gotta have is a little common sense. If you see a head blow through 3/4" plywood or through both sides of a steel drum, you know what would happen if that head hit you. And what would happen if it hit an animal. Bones aren't magical as some would have you believe. Guys on here have plenty of experience with bones and know what they are.

All you need is a little common sense, and reading my posts in this thread that is what you will find. Like Tricks, no fancy talking, just solid stuff.

From: Trophy8@work
29-Jun-07
The problem I see with plywood is how an arrow/BH is shot into it. The plywood is flat, stationary and hit directly on the flat suface in a straight line....what animal simulates that? Why not shoot at the plywood placed on an angle and lets see what the results are, fixed or mech. The same can be said for the steel drum. I have a strange feeling the results just might be dfferent.

From: oldhootowl
29-Jun-07
The thing with tests is to be valid they must consistent, controlled, repeatable.

Plywood can be shot to good effect.

With an animal, every shot is different, even a 1/8" off can yield a completely different result. Thats where the tester then uses by guess and by gosh on what happened, and where tester bias creeps in. And where pronounced results leave room for doubt.

Shooting at an angle, fine and dandy, as long as the test is consistent, controlled, and repeatable.

From: oldhootowl
29-Jun-07
Tell you what, go to slicktrick.net, and scroll down and click on TRICKED ANIMALS. Put up a nice Montana bull you can view recently, then scroll down and look at the BIG ASS MOOSE a guy sent me last year and what he wrote about it. Thats a Tricked moose.

From: Trophy8
29-Jun-07
When someone shows me results of shooting into plywood and a steel drum from an angle, then proves that BH "A" will out perform BH "B"......

From: oldhootowl
29-Jun-07
LOL Tricks perform Woody, and you can't lead people away from that fact. People who can't make their case always try to resort to personal attacks. Shame on you. You should be bigger than that.

Chuck Adams has killed way more trophy animals than you ever will. I would expect from your logic that you use the same heads he does.

From: Stekewood
29-Jun-07
Woody, Have you ever shot a moose with a Slick Trick?

From: oldhootowl
29-Jun-07
"You can't say there is no difference between animals and plywood....you don't know!"

I can't say that because I didn't say that. Never said there was no difference. Just that you can get a good idea of broadhead performance with it.

The reason Chuck is brought up is because, failing to convince anybody of anything with logic, you are attempting to make the case that you know more about broadhead performance because of the animals you have killed.

By that logic since Chuck has killed more trophy animals than you, he is the greatest expert on broadheads, and everybody including you should be shooting whatever he is shooting.

Yes, I have shot plywood. And I have killed animals. But, unlike some, I have no interest on getting on here beating my chest about how I am the worlds greatest hunter. Actually I haven't ever been interested in beating my chest, as a matter of fact few in my home town know I have a broadhead company and it was a while before my family found out about it.

I suppose you can call me your average working hero in business, and in bowhunting. I have never killed a WR, and I would bet my life I never will. But then again, I'm not trying. If I spent all the time bowhunting that Chuck Adams has perhaps I would have killed a WR. On the other hand if Chuck Adams had spent as much time working on broadheads as I have perhaps he would have invented a better broadhead. Actually he did have his own patented broadhead on the market a short time, but shoots others now. Why? Because animals killed does not translate into knowing more about broadheads and having the best head.

Frankly I have never been too ambitious bowhunting. Being out in the woods alone with nature away from arguments about politics, religion, money, war, etc. etc. etc. has always been enough for me. And perhaps that has something to do with me growing up modestly, where I came from there weren't but a handful of bowhunters, and affording to travel out west elk hunting was considered pretty much an impossible dream.

But could I hunt Africa in the future and kill a Cape Buff, or Alaska a big Moose, or kill a monster Whitetail, or a bruiser Bear??? Perhaps, with enough time and money. When it comes to trophy hunting, everybody on here knows the odds of success depends on time and money. If your average working hero takes a week of vacation here in Arkansaw his odds of killing a Moose aren't real good.

On the other hand, if you have loads of leased tightly protected land with bucks under 160 passed up every year, trail cameras, food plots, antler supplements, 4 wheeler trails, treestands in every conceivable location, great buck doe ratio, etc. etc. and can hunt anytime you want, theres a reasonable chance you might kill a big buck.

Now, theres nothing wrong with that, and all of us would enjoy that if we could. And guys who kill big bucks are great hunters. But in my book the average working hero who struggles to get a few days to hunt and bags a good 8 pointer on public land is just as great a bowhunter.

A real bowhunter is somebody who can go on a bowhunt and kill nothing and have a great time.

Truth is I have a creative bug, and 25 or so years ago I started hunting broadheads. I scouted, I stalked, and after all these years I bagged one that is top rated. I have made a lot of sacrifices with that, in every way. But that was my choice. I have learned who I am and I am comfortable with whatever my destiny is. I am like an old miner who rides his mule to the mountains every day with his pick and studies the ore and prospects. Either one day he hits it or one day he falls over dead. Thats how its going to be, and thats that.

My favorite Razorback coach is Lou Holtz. The little runt didn't win many championships with his playing skills. But that didn't mean after working a ton he didn't learn how to coach a championship team.

This fall, if I'm lucky and get away from work,(and while I am no longer a one man team here, I'm still close), I hope to go to Idaho and elk hunt with a lumberjack I know. Just a good old average working hero hunt. I may kill a bull, I may kill a cow, I may kill time and have a few laughs. I'll be happy if I get to do any of the three.

As far as if I am advertising, well, I suppose you can call it that if you want too, I don't care. I'm a sponsor. Same as Magnus is a sponsor and you are on here typing same as me and somebody can say you are advertising too. Here in Arkansaw I would call it more chit chatting than anything else.

You have commented on how you seem to be offended that I refer to field reports of what bowhunters tell me Tricks do. Well, I don't see that much different than you giving Magnus field reports. Except that the guys reporting to me aren't getting paid a dime, they voluntarily call me up out of the blue and do it out of appreciation for the job the head did. Theres only one of me, no matter what I killed my field reports would pale in comparison to the thousands of guys out there killing stuff with Tricks.

And as far as broadhead tests, I gotta admit I doubt I will ever be impressed with a company sponsored broadhead test. Been a while since I have seen a company involved with a broadhead test where that companies broadhead didn't somehow come out on top. I'm waiting for a company to publish a test where the competitors broadhead tested best. That one might have some integrity.

I will tell you this. I am not in business to be a celebrity. While I have a famous name, I have always cherished anonymity and being able to quietly go about my business investigating whatever interested me. Don't waste your time waiting to see me in bowhunting videos or whatever. Thats others thing, not mine. I enjoy chewing the fat with people, but I am happiest in my shop puttering around. Sometime thats what I will be doing, but right now people want to know about broadheads, and after studying them all this time and inventing Tricks theres only me right now to let people know what they want to know about them.

People can be snobs and ridicule me because I'm from Arkansas, or because of education, or the car I drive, or clothes I wear, or how I hunt, or whatever else. They run out of things let me know and I will add to the list. Ridicule has always made me laugh.

So if guys out there want to buy broadheads from the worlds greatest bowhunter, or the worlds richest broadhead maker, or the owner with the most tv shows, or the owner with the most celebrities and yes men, they'll have to find another broadhead besides Tricks.

I make them for however many guys appreciate what they will do, and I always hope for that to be the average working heroes.

Stick me with a fork on this one, I'm done on this thread, and from the looks of orders, not gonna be able to blow on forums much before long. But if you ever need anything theres the email at slicktrick.net, and if I don't answer within 24 hours on a weekday you can bet either it didn't get here or I didn't get there, try again, or if all else fails call. Email screws up from time to time.

Ok, I'm stuck.

From: JRW
30-Jun-07

JRW's embedded Photo
JRW's embedded Photo
520-grain carbon arrow at 194 fps tipped with a 2-blade Ace Standard cut-on-impact broadhead. Complete pass through, splitting a rib vertically on exit. It took me longer to find the arrow than the moose.

I won't get into the mechanical debate except to say this: We had a hunter in camp last fall who shot a bull with a >60# Matthews and a Spitfire broadhead. The first shot broke the upper leg, sending the bull 600 yards into a peat bog. The hunter and guide caught up to the bull the next day. It took three more arrows before one got enough penetration to hit one lung, eventually killing the moose. It wasn't a pretty sight, and certainly not a very humane kill.

From: ArrowShooter
09-Jul-07
It bothers me a lot that you can't group your broadheads with your field points. It indicates that you are not tuned.

Contrary to popular opinion, a "perfect" bullet hole with a paper tune does NOT guarantee a good flying broadhead. I gave up on paper tuning years ago. I found that there are cases where my broadheads still did not fly true.

A better method to use is what I call point of convergence. Take 2 good known arrows. Tip one with an aligned broadhead and the other with a field point. Shoot both. Make adjustments (vertical first) until the two hit the same point of impact. Works almost every time without a hitch. I haven't paper tuned in years.

On your original question, I would recommend going after anything bigger than a whitetail with a mechanical. They just aren't that strong. Moose are big animals with big bones. Best to stick with the strongest broadheads available.

Just my thoughts.

From: Stillhunter
09-Jul-07
Nice bull JRW. The mech. story is one that needs to be told. Common sense or lack of, as oldhootowl mentioned above, comes to mind after hearing that story.

I really don't think it matters if you call it "rupturing" or "cutting". The newer generation of short, solid, 4 blade heads IMO are doing both, and based on hunter feedback are doing a damn good job at it. They are here to stay, no doubt.

The results of how they perform on game animals, their durability, and the fact that they are more accurate then the longer & bigger heads is why I think so many people are choosing to use them.

Obviousy the older style 2 blade heads can get the job done as shown by JRW's nice bull moose.

From: SnapDragon
09-Jul-07
You guys are unbelievable!!Haven't you guys learned that peoples opinions vary so much especially on this subject that it was inevitable that this would turn into a "I know more than you do" thread...to tell you the truth it gets tiresome to read...JRW that really is a nice moose and a great story but that story really serves no purpose because it was obvious that the guy did't make a leathal hit no matter what type of broadhead he used...and for every story like that about mechanicals there is another one with the same results about fixed blades...let it go please!!

From: Stillhunter
09-Jul-07
No need to snap there Snapdragon, and no one is forcing you to read anything. Reading is optional.

JWR's story (the one told, not his)serves a big purpose IMO, learning from other hunter's experiences can help all of us. It is one of the reasons we discuss issues like broadhead effectiveness/design etc.

If you are offended don't take it personal but rather tell us what your own experience has been.

From: im-ocd
09-Jul-07

im-ocd's Link
The mechanical broadhead won't work argument has been disproven already. There are 6 elk, two moose, a bison, and a musk ox all on one tropy photo page. Plus I saw Warren Strickland shoot a moose with a Rocket on a video. Check out the pictures looks like the Rocket broadheads worked on large game.

From: Stillhunter
09-Jul-07
I should have added "fixed". I wasn't referring to the mechs as far as "rupturing" is concerned, I understand the reasoning for the BAN on mechs. I fully support the states ban on mechs.

I was referring to the new short 4 blade heads like the Slicktrick. You have implied that they are rupturing rather than cutting and my comment was that I think they are doing both which is why they are proving to be so effective. If you find the head lying 10 yards past the dead moose then I guess the term "rupture" is a good thing and most likely there was a lot of cutting going on also.

From: Stillhunter
09-Jul-07
I agree with your concern on basing a heads ability to perform on plywood only. I'm not trying to be argumentive, just curious about your perspective.

Interesting, the "shorty" heads have been very popular here for a couple of years now, based on how well they are working on large game. Quite a few passthroughs on elk, bear, and moose. The results have been quite opposite of what you see with a mech. The only problem's were having here with heads like the Slicktrick and the Shuttlelock, is keeping them on the bowshop wall. Guy's are buying them up because of the results they are getting.

The passthroughs I acheived last season with a "shorty" on a mature bull elk and mule deer confirm what other hunters are reporting as far as how effective this style of head is.

From: TXHunter
09-Jul-07
I don't know more than anybody. I do know that when I drew a Wyoming moose tag, my outfitter/guide told me NOT to change my whitetail rig (Mathews Q2, Easton A/C/C's. and G5 Montecs). I was a little skeptical but took his advice.

Result: Complete pass through at 23 yards on a beautiful 144 7/8 Shiras.

Moral: Comfort with your gear and shot placement is 90% of the game. So it always was, so it always shall be. ;)

From: ny2ut2id
09-Jul-07
It's all about shot placement. 75grain or 140 grain it doesn't matter.

From: oldhootowl
09-Jul-07
Tricks started the whole super short revolution, and they are flat out performing. In every way, and especially in penetration. There is no disputing that among those with lots of experience with them.

Other heads, well, others can vouch or dispel them if they want to.

But Tricks, penetration and blood trails are outstanding. It doesn't matter the size of the game, you can see on slicktrick.net pics like guys send all the time and testify to the performance.

What you want for moose is a strong great penetrating head. The Standard is exactly that, either the 100 or 125. Of course, if you really want maximum penetration, the heavier arrow is the way to go, and the 125 Standard is built like a tank. Blade angle is the same as a TI 100 for those that think that has relevance, and the ferrule is stronger than Titanium. With 4 .035 blades with Alcatraz Bladelock, first thing you will think when you see one is it looks like a moose head. And it is.

Accuracy and strength is keys to moose. Accuracy to put the arrow where you want it, and strength when it gets there.

Beware of heads that bend or break, cross those off your list. That is the achilles heel of long aluminum heads, and when a head bends or breaks you are screwed. Moose are tuff and need tuff heads. The long heads are inherently weak.

The Standard Trick is terrific moose medicine. No doubt whatsoever.

From: bb
09-Jul-07
Well I just thought I would point out an often overlooked benefit to carrying a couple of two blade stingers in your quiver while Moose hunting. It has nothing to do with penetration, durability or accuracy:) They skip off the water real well when you have to make a follow up shot after the bull decides to go sit down in a river about 130 yds off shore after pulling a bad shot with the first arrow.

I have first hand experience with this feature:) Only having a longest pin of 70 yds, I had to take a guess at the hold over and mis judged short by about 15 yds. No Sweat, the arrow just skipped like a stone and hit the moose in the lungs and finished him off.

I haven't seen that category on any Broadhead tests, maybe it's time to update them.:)

And that's a true story.

From: chip
09-Jul-07
Hey Guys-Take your fixed, mechanicals. judo points and flu flus and go shoot something, anything. It makes for interesting reading but we are picking everything apart these days. Matt is lucky as he will be hunting deer real soon but I do not envy him in the real hot Ca. temps.

From: oldhootowl
10-Jul-07
Thats pretty good bb. You gotta be a great shot to make the head spin where it contacts the water flat. Wonder if Byron Ferguson has that one.

From: Grizz
10-Jul-07
Jason Wesbrock,congratulations on the moose,will there be a story in TRADITIONAL BOWHUNTER MAG? You could give us some details on your hunt here if you like.

From: bb
10-Jul-07
"You gotta be a great shot to make the head spin where it contacts the water flat. Wonder if Byron Ferguson has that one."

I don't know about the great shot part of it, Obviously if I was such a great shot I wouldn't have needed the follow up. However I give all the credit to the broadhead design.:)

From: JRW
14-Jul-07
Grizz,

Sorry, I haven't checked back on this thread in a few days. Yes, TBM will publish an article I wrote about the moose hunt. If memory serves, I think it'll be in the Oct/Nov '07 issue.

From: medicinemann
14-Jul-07
I really appreciate all of the ideas, opinions, and input regarding my original post. Since I learned today that two of my three outfitters/guides STRONGLY recommend a fixed blade for their bowhunters, to avoid any confrontation, my decision has already been made for me...to some degree. Could I show with mechanicals...sure. Is it a battle worth fighting? I don't believe so..... I've ordered some slick trick broadheads and start to shoot them next week.

Jake

From: Turk
15-Jul-07
Jake, Good luck with your hunt!I know you have some other hunts planned this year. Keep us informed on you hunts, the next best thing to going on a hunt is hearing about some one else’s!

From: oldhootowl
15-Jul-07
Your guides will like your choice. Hope you get a moose like Pats, his bull is a magnificent animal.

From: medicinemann
15-Jul-07
I have decided to take my journal with me, again. I'll keep a daily log of the each hunt, and if possible, I will draft each hunt once it has concluded. Then I'll try to type them onto the forum beofre the next hunt starts. I just need to determine whether to do them as semi-live hunts, or whether to post the entire story of hunt all at once.

From: Stillhunter
16-Jul-07
Great choice Jake, let us know how things go for you and good luck.

From: Bou'bound
16-Oct-19

From: BighornRam
03-Nov-19

BighornRam's embedded Photo
53 " Ak moose. Sept 25 2019 guide Richard Moran Alaska Extreem Adventures.
BighornRam's embedded Photo
53 " Ak moose. Sept 25 2019 guide Richard Moran Alaska Extreem Adventures.
Just returned from AK moose hunt. Had the same questions before I went and decided on 75 gr brass insert, axis 300 at 29 in, 4 4in vanes and a 2 blade Magnus stinger, 68# Mathews ovation.. I was able to take a beautiful old 53" heavy bull the last day of season at 30 yds. Perfect arrow placement, broadhead went completely thru and bull went about 60 yds. No blood trail to follow as he crossed the river but it was pouring out both sides and we were very lucky he made it across river. Attached pics of bull and arrow damage.

From: BighornRam
03-Nov-19

BighornRam's embedded Photo
entrance hole from Magnus 2 blade stinger
BighornRam's embedded Photo
entrance hole from Magnus 2 blade stinger
picture of broadhead damage. entrance hole

03-Nov-19
Bou: Don’t ever say the “search engine” doesn’t work! 12 years?

From: GF
03-Nov-19
But has anybody changed their mind yet?

I guess I can’t tell what I’m looking at in that entry wound pic. Hardly stands to reason that you could get a bigger hole than the width of the head unless shooting at a fairly extreme angle....

What did I miss??

From: t-roy
03-Nov-19
Congrats on a great bull, Kurt!

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