Bowsite.com

Anyone have a link? I'm headed to CO this year for my first elk hunt, and I'd like to review what the experts here at bowsite had to say.

Thanks in advance.

search under "point of aim"

I've looked back, and found the threads. The photos were purged, though, it looks like.

So, thanks for your photo. (Is that where to put the finishing shot? LOL).

I'm sure there is some truth to the thought that these are "just big deer" and point of aim should be the same ... but it's good to hear from people who have "been there."

I also have my first elk hunt this september and would like to read some input on different shot angles..

Look closely at the elk pictured above and see if you can make out the bone structure in its front leg. That is of major importance to understand if you want to be able to take advantage of the most deadly area on a broadside shot.

Study the above picture a bit and be sure you understand the front leg structure. The next few pictures I post will better help you understand this, if you don't already know. It’s of major importance to a bowhunter! (So learn it WELL)

Can you begin to notice the > ?

For those that want, place a dot where you want to hit and explain why you place your dot where you did.

Good pictures, what's the story with the bull? Caught in the V of a tree?

I like this location, trying to leave some room for error in case I am low or left, also the far leg is back some and I want to miss that on the way out!

Have a great bowhunt. BB

Thanks for sharing

Here's a pretty good picture that shows this gals front leg and shoulder bone make up.

Have a great bowhunt. BB

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RD

A quick look at the circulatory system seems to confirm that.

BB I would have aimed at slightly left of the black x

I have a question, from memory the ribs only cover lung cavity right? So a quick look at the bone chart of an elk show middle of ribs is 4" or more back from everyones red dots, even acounting for the angles on some shots.

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My son shoots his animals there, and it’s been years now since he shot anything that we haven't been able to watch fall. If people really understood how deadly and how fast that area works for you, most would quit shooting behind the shoulder. Since I learned about that shot, I have yet to hit the bone, that so many of you fear.

I personally think the odds of hitting the bone, on close shots, to be very less likely than hitting the guts, if one is shooting the crease. There is actually as much or more area for error on that shot than on the behind the shoulder shot.

Liver shot elk can die fast if you’re lucky, but can be lost very easy too, especially if jumped or pushed the elk after the shot. I will opt forward every time because of the results I have experienced on both hits.

By any means, keep it as far forward as you feel good about. And don’t be afraid to learn, as there are better ways than many of us presently use, that will result in faster kills and far less critters lost. This happens to be one of them in my belief.

Have a great bowhunt. BB

May many of you be so lucky as to get this good of shot this season!

Have a great bowhunt. BB

Here is where I would put this shot with some room for error in any direction.

Hint: consider that you are above the elk, and the elk is quartering away. This has a great influence on where one should aim or want to hit!

Have a great bowhunt. BB

Teach us BB.

Aim a little left and a little more than midway up the animal and you will get the angle that will get the liver and the lungs

Again the lungs expand to fill the void (see old posts about "the void") so I think that any hit in the rib cage means a lung hit, but far back shots tend to result in very long blood trails, not enough lung is hit IMO. Still my point is the center of the rib cage is nowhere near where yous guys dots are. I am trying to learn, not argue.

Can someone please place some lines on the back of the lungs on a broadside elk?

I think I need to aim a little more forward, right now I plan to hit about 4" behind the back of the front leg on a mature bull.

Here's a bull I placed a large red dot and that's the area I would like my arrow to hit. I think I would watch the critter go down if I put it in that area. The black dot is an area where many bowhunters would want their arrow.

It's late in the evening as you can tell by the picture. The bull is muddy and a hit farther back than the red area in my opinion, although vital, could require not finding the bull until the next morning. I HATE leaving a critter as big as an elk lying on the ground all night, as you compromise the eating a bunch.

Which would you prefer?

Have a great bowhunt. BB

I stay in front of the yellow line no matter what. Long tracking jobs on elk are not fun.

At the very least never go behind the front leg, at the best go right up the front of the front leg on a broadside shot, and if you want some margin, then go right up the center of front leg. Once you start doing that and see the results, you will NEVER shoot behind it again, except on quartering away shots.

My bow ed instructor taught me that many years ago, and since I learned that, I watch most critters I shoot go down within sight. That happened rarely previous to that time.

I don’t have time to do a good example right now, but here’s a picture I used in the past to demonstrate what I am trying to show. Look close at the picture above. The red is the lung area and the purple is the liver and front edge of the diaphragm. I placed a black dot on an imaginary line up the middle of the front leg, where I think most bowhunters should aim on broadside shots. I placed another black dot what would be 4” behind the front leg. Notice how much room you have before you hit bone going forward of the front black dot, and how little you have going back on the second black dot before your are in the guts.

Many bowhunters aim way too far back on broadside critters. I think the reason for this is what I call rifle mentality. “Just place your bullet right behind the front leg!” If one really studies the anatomy of the critters they hunt, most every bowhunter will move his shot forward of where they were originally taught. Once you start to experience the quick kills and fast deaths, you will never return to behind the shoulder. I truly believe that. Through the years I have received many thanks from guys who tried what I advocated when they saw and experienced the results.

FACT: More animals are lost on broadside shots than any other shot. It’s not that it is not a good shot, but rather too many aim to far back and if a critter moves it is usually in the direction their heading and thus many hits are back in the guts. I would much rather take my chances on a seldom hit front bone, than chancing loosing a critter because I shot too far back. Gotta run!

Have a great bowhunt. BB

buffalo I think the lungs are a little more forward then that but you are closer to what I thought

What about aiming where the green dot is on above pic?

Also, a rule I have for quartering away shots (not steep quartering away - I pass on those) like the one stickflngr used from BB is to aim so my arrow will end up square on the fat leg. In other words if the front leg comes forward aim so after you arrow pass through the elk it hits right above the opposite side leg as you see it. This may be a tiny bit further back then some of you but it is easy to remember and will surely hit lungs.

I have seen more deer lost due to hitting brisket - to far forward, then guts and it made me tend to aim a little back, I have also seen leg bones hit and deer never recovered. I have done well with deer & elk lately, 19 of last 20 shots in the lungs, the only miss hit the front leg of a doe that what slightly off the angle I thought she was when I shot.

Do you agree?

The picture above is used in bowhunting education. It's not my rendition of what I think, but the REAL facts. It will behoove all of us to learn and put this information in action when hunting. It will allow more taken game and far less wounding. It is a win win for all!

Have a great bowhunt. BB

BB's teachings on how to look for the bone structure on the side of the elk not only points out that you can shoot further forward then you thought, it also trains your eye to look lower on the bottom 1/3 of the animal. Then you don't have to worry about that damn shoulder blade and thoughts of "behind the shoulder or crease" We need to get this "midway section" of the elk out of our minds on broadside shots.

this fall look close for the lower leg bone structure. Stay calm! Pick a spot! Aim small! and it WILL happen.

Good luck

Here's a picture of an antelope with the REAL leg bones laid over a picture of an antelope to show how the leg bone really ties into what we are talking about. Although its just an antelope, it is the same basic principle on an elk.

I got tied up waiting for a return call and now I really have to run.

Have a great bowhunt. BB

But that bull is slightly Qrt away and down from you. to insure the opposite side lung, I would aim a couple inches lower and straight up from the opposite side leg.

Gut shots, to my knowledge, pretty much 100% fatal. At some point anyway.

Great thread, great info BB. Thanks.

This one really shows how using the opposite leg for reference is a good rule of thumb. It would be nice to have him stop in that position! Walking shots can get risky.

yes you'd be fine. I would rather be up the middle of the front leg than behind it in a broadside shot. If the near side is to you, like the most recent pic, then I'd go for the back of that leg. JMO

"So guys let me see if i've got the general idea on this. If I have a perfectly broadside shot and I go straight up the back of the leg, as tight as i can keep it 1/3 of the way up, I should be alright?"

Well, very seldom do you get a perfectly broadside shot opportunity. Invariably, there is always some angle to the shot, quartering to or away. By understanding the anatomy and the location of the vitals, you can visualize the path the arrow should take and aim in that manner, instead of following some rule of thumb, but it's better to shoot them low and forward into the chest than high and back. That's what BB's trying to impress upon you.

First timers have to contend with adrenalin and the desire to get an arrow into an elk. In time nerves settle down and decisions based upon experience are easier to make, but there is a learning curve that all have to get past. If you want to make a good shot, my suggestion to you is to try to stay in control of your emotions. When the moment comes, SLOW DOWN and make sure of your shot. After all, that's the point of all the preparation, scouting and effort, to get to the point of releasing the arrow, so make it count. Take the time to look for limbs in your shooting lane and do your best to accurately estimate the correct distance.

Many bad hits are due to incorrect yardage estimation. Elk are big critters and they always look like they're closer than they are. Bad guess too often = high hit and long track. Don't be too proud to use a LRF and use it before you have to draw your bow if possible.

You can't take back a miss or a bad hit, you just have to live with the results.

Wait until you have a bull standing at 25 feet and screaming right at you! It's pretty tough to even hit a horse-sized animal even at that close range the first few times you have that happen...trust me I know!

Chad

Grey Wolf, this is so true. I still get the shakes when I have a whitetail doe close in! I still getting when I'm out early season just scouting and have elk danger close! I'm thinking if I ever get to the point that I don't need to calm myself a little bit before I let the arrow go, I'll quit. I don't see it happening though! These are great threads.

My plan is to aim 1/3 of the way up with my vertical wire even with the back of the leg. Sound good?

I suggest you keep your aiming point forward of the blue line on a shot like pictured above. I think you will be amazed at the results!

Have a great bowhunt. BB

I think we all tend to aim a bit too far back, and as someone above noted, that is a "rifle" mentality.

BB ... it looks like you aim for the heart or the hilum of the lungs, rather than the more posterior and less vascular portions of the lungs. I know from my experience on deer that this is a very quickly fatal shot -- the animals usually drop within sight. My question is: Would you point this out to a group of kids taking a hunter safety class, or would you, in that case, prefer the more forgiving "lung shot", even with it's attendant longer blood trails?

And ... by the way ... keep posting. I don't think one of my threads has ever hit the 100 mark, and this one is real close!

Thanks again everyone, I've learned quite a bit.

Like I mentioned before, if an animal moves upon release, it most often goes forward and not backwards, therefore the arrow hits farter back. If one shoots the crease and that happens, there is very little margin for error, before one is in the guts.

The problem I see is too many guys shoot broadside shots at far ranges, and that really increases the chance of a gut shot. But if one is shooting at an elk at 30 or less yards, then he should be able to able to put an arrow close to a line right up the middle of the front leg. If one does that and misses forward 4 inches, he still hits home. If one takes the same shot and shoots the crease or behind the crease and misses 4 inches back then he could well be in trouble. If one misses 6 inches either way, then they would be in trouble, but I truly believe more critters will be lost with a shot that hits too far back than a shot that is too far forward.

Have a great bowhunt. BB

Chad

Dan, here's a small bull, quartering to you, taken off my buddies trail camera, at one of our waterholes just the other day.

The truck sure runs down the road. I took it to Colorado the other day to our elk area. It ran good, but I only saw 3 elk and all were cows. Usually I see 10 times that many and most are bulls. I'm not worried, as it was hot and it's still early. Take care, and tell your Mom I say hi.

Have a great bowhunt. BB

Have a great bowhunt. BB

Have a great bowhunt. BB

Chad

Have a great bowhunt. BB

Both areas of placement stand a very good chance of hitting the heart and both lungs. However BB's spot (could) but not always ruin some good shoulder meat. A shot in the crease will only hit rib meat.

In either case, keep them in tight and you will have success.

For those that are all puffed up, preparing to unleash that speech about how “unethical” anyone would be even thinking about attempting a frontal shot, save your breath. Many of those who have been involved with this shot will speak of the effectiveness, when taken under the correct scenario.

8^)

I'm not going to argue that shot with you, but I will say that I will not intentionaly run an arrow into the guts, thereby creating a bit uglier field care job than needed, if I can wait for one of these other shots. Just doesn't make sense to me as I "aim" to keep things as clean as possible.:)

I'm sure you can get someone to argue the ethical value of that shot! good luck!

20 yards or less, not looking directly at me, Im squeezin that trigger and watching that bull go down within sight.

I've seen several bull elk that were hit very high (just behind the crease) that were never found. One of them was my own, one was a buddies. I felt both were good hits, but after long, tedious tracking jobs, both animals were lost. And both were followed for at least a 1/4 of a mile, so it wasn't that they died within 100 yards, but could not be found like has happened on other occasions and to other hunters.

The lungs are not as highly vascular on the tops and the bottoms as they are in the center, and thus the problem.

One evening, my buddy and I were sitting a water hole. He was actually in some sage brush right at the water hole, and I was sitting the main trail that lead to the water. Above us on the hill we could see no less than 10 bulls and perhaps 40-50 cows and calves.

About 4 pm a bull headed from the herd and headed down the tail I was sitting. I let him pass so my buddy Clair could get a shot. As he watered, Clair put an arrow just behind the crease, but rather low. The bull ran and bedded just 80 yards from me. I actually passed up a couple bulls that night because I didn't want to scare Clair's bull. About 7:30 that evening, with dark approaching I snuck down to Clair to see what he wanted to do. His bull was still alive, with head up. We decided to get Clair in a small finger of Quakes that wasn't too far from the bull. I would then head towards the bull who was laying out in the open sage. The bull got up and ran past Clair who put another arrow in him and in 5 minutes he was dead from Clair's second arrow. Upon examination we found his first arrow had hit the bottom of both lungs but he lived for almost 4 hours before he was put down with a 2nd arrow. Had he been jumped within an hour, I doubt very much one would have retrieved that bull. We were lucky in the fact that he laid down where we both could see him.

I have learned, I am way better off taking my chance with the leg bone, than the guts. I would much rather be closer to big bone, than to the guts and I think most others would be too. One has to witness the results to really understand. Once you do, you will never again purposely hit behind the crease, unless it's a quartering away shot or your shooting from such long distances you need the buffer. I don't shoot long distances, so that's not a concern with me.

Have a great bowhunt BB

Have a great bowhunt. BB

Meathunter13,

It doesn't matter whether you use the gutless methoid or not. You need to retrieve the tenders and rib meat which are exposed to anything that is let loose inside an animal on a gutshot. I don't like the guts opened up if I can prevent it.

That said, the picture above clearly shows that the center of the lungs is almost directly above the top of the crease. As such, this shot provides for the greatest margin for error and will continue to be the spot that I aim for. I have always recovered a double lung hit elk, so that is not a concern for me.

I will concede that BB's V-shot MAY provide a quicker kill, but it also has a smaller margin for shooter error. If I aim at my spot and miss 4" to the right, I hit BB's spot and enjoy a quick clean kill. Conversely, if I aim at BB's spot and miss 4" to the right, I'm merely crippling an elk.

GG

You can see the entrance hole in the picture right in front of the point of the rear leg and behind the shadow. While the buck was slightly quartering away, the arrow still exited in the mid part of the rib cage (well behind the crease).

Agreed.

It should also be noted that the diaphragm and rear part of the lungs are not in a fixed position. I have no idea how far the diaphragm moves as an elk breaths, but I bet it's a considerable distance considering the size of their lungs.

GG

GG

If the GG's dot is where he would like to hit, and if it's where Matt would like to hit, then our thinking is as close as our dots.

My whole purpose of contributing to this thread is make people realize there is no bone straight up the leg, and that forward shots are better, for a number of reasons, than shooting behind the crease. If one shoots behind the crease, considering most critters move forward, or if they shoot, by mistake farther back, you have a gut shot critter, which take longer to die and are much harder to track.

Since I have been shooting farther forward, I have hit the bone that connects to the scapula twice. In both instances I have recovered the critter within 25 yards. I have gut shot one antelope which moved upon release which took over 6 hours before he died. Had I been shooting behind the crease on that shot, it is likely I might never have recovered him.

I just want people who shoot close shots to understand, especially on elk, which are large critters, and have large vitals, that one can shoot where I aim and miss by 4" and still not hit the bone they fear. If one is shooting 60 yards shots, which I don't do, then they might need a larger margin of error. But time and experience have proven to me, that one looses a lot less critters on close shots than on long shots, so that's where I plan to limit my shots.

Have a great bowhunt BB

Also I think the crease gives a much bigger margin for error. Aim here and if you: - miss high: lungs, low: lung, back: lungs/liver, (dead elk but may require some more tracking) forward you hit BB's spot.

If you aim straight above leg and miss: - miss high: shoulder hit, low: leg bone hit, forward: leg bone hit, back lungs.

Why aim for a tiny spot, almost surrounded by bone that is not the center of the lungs? I think many guys have been making this shot, with great success (and rightfully so because it is a deadly shot) for many years and think it is the best, which is why I am seeing live game with dots there, but not anatomical charts.

Clearly not only is the crease the center of the lungs but it also gives more margin for error.

both hits if done right put an elk down quick, but any error and crease aim is likely better.

I find it funny everyone loves the elk to go down within sight. If my elk goes 50 yard or 100 yards I do not care as long as he goes down quick.

I am fairly sure the blue area would result in a lung shot, although far back, elk might go 200-300 yards, not good but I do think blus is lungs.

Look at bone diagram too, ribs cover lungs, not guts, center of ribs is pretty far back.

I do not want to argue but I do think crease is the way to go, I am open to suggestion so please find a diagram showing lungs or circulatory system with the center being where many are showing it - above the leg. I cannot find any diagram to give me that impression. Everyoneis putting red dots above the leg and saying center of lungs - please put that red dot on an anatomical drawing of an elk and you will see it is not the center.

Again, more critters are hit and lost on broadside shots than on any other shot and most of those lost are because people either hit too far back, too high or too low. Few are lost because hunter hit too far forward.

Got to go walk my dogs.

Have a great bowhunt BB

On whitetail....when I hit the crease they go down quick......20 yards or less. If I hit high....I'm still golden. If I hit back......usually not further back than the diaphram. If I hit forward....I have 3-4" before I'm busting through bone.

Given all that....I think Ya'll been talking about pretty much the same spot....but I am persuaded that I should strive for better accuracy and move my point up and forward of the crease a bit......good stuff

I compliment your efforts. I also agree we may be splitting hairs, here.

But, I still believe that your ideal aiming spot (red dot above) is too far forward. Yes, it's an extremely lethal shot, and it does demonstrate there is not bone directly above the leg, but it's not the ideal spot to aim, IMO.

I consider the black dot about perfect.

GG

Rob

GG

I think that you folks are splitting hairs. You are close to shooting the same spot.

"But time and experience have proven to me, that one looses a lot less critters on close shots than on long shots, so that's where I plan to limit my shots."

I think this (BB's quote) is really the more important lesson that alot of bowhunters should pay attention to.

hehehehehehe

What kind of deer is that? Where was it taken?

1 - Indoctrination from books, magazines, target manufacturers, videos, etc. They always show the "bullseye" behind the shoulder.

2 - Lack of confidence in my accuracy to hit double-lungs but miss the bones.

Over the past few years, I have been practicing a lot more with broadheads and have gained more confidence.

This thread came up around this same time last year and BB talked about his preferred shot being a bit higher and forward of the typical "bullseye".

I shot an elk last year and hit exatly in the spot of which BB talks. The elk was down in seconds just out of sight (50 yards).

The reason why this shot kills so much more quickly and efficiently than your "behind the crease" shot is that it takes out the mass of ateries and veins at the top of the heart and lungs. It is a devastating shot. Your typical double-lung shot is very lethal as well, but it is my experience that elk live longer, travel farther after the shot, and don't leave as good of a bloodtrail when shot behind the crease.

In 1996 I missed a *big* forkie (legendary for making bow hunters look stupid) on the ranch I hunt. One of his two running mates was a small 3 point. The ranch owner and I watched that 3 point grow and develop over the years, and I was fotunate enough to kill him in 2004. At that point he was 10-11 years old. He remains one of my favorite trophies.

Nick

My partner & I boned out the bull that evening and packed him out the next morning. Note that the "crease" is clearly visible. Unfortunately, I didn't learn my lesson well and last year aimed behind the crease at 12 yards on a slow walking bull. I think I stopped my arm from panning and released. Long story short - elk tracked 400+ yards, searched for the rest of the day but the bull was not recovered......

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The sweet spot I normally aim at on a broadside shot is the same as bullhound's in the calf photo just a few posts above. It has worked well for me.

Here's my take on some of them.

However, if he stopped in this position, this is where I would place it.

Don

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Quartering away I just aim to hit the far leg, most times this is a good plan - a tiny bit forward is ok but for ease of memory while excited this works for me. I have to say I shoot about 2" back further then most.

Gerry

Sorry Huntsman, I did not get this until now. Man, you gotta be good at de-tuning your set up just right to get the "perfect cork screw"! :)

Bottom line, learn the anatomy, if your comfortable with the shot, take it. You can wound an animal from any positon, EVEN BROADSIDE.

Chad

What a nice bull. Did you pour mud on it to cover up all the blood:-) Shane shot one some years back that just left a wallow and it looked just like your bull with a bit smaller antlers.

By the way, you hit that bull just where I would like to hit mine if I ever get the chance to take an elk again.

Have a great bowhunt BB

Oh, one other thing! I am sure you will get another chance! Hopefully on a moose too!

Mossyhorn, you might want to go back and read the entire thread. The point of the thread is "learning the anatomy" so you understand where the bones are. As BB and others have pointed out, and IMO, most people tend to shoot too far back.

I participated in a long tracking job this past season where a hunter had taken a 25 yd. broadside shot and hit what he guessed to be 6 to 8 inches behind the crease and 1/3rd the way up. Unfortunately, the carcass was found more than a week later, and the bull had traveled a great distance. Because of the deteriation and bear damage, the shot location was not verified, but this thread came to mind. The hit was fatal but most likely well behind the lungs.

Sorry to hear about the lost bull. Indeed we must stay out of the large bone structure but as this thread has brought to light, there is a lot of room in that "pocket" that a lot of bowhunters avoid. I know it worked out well for me and at 20-30 yards a bowhunter should be able to hit that every time IMO. Have a great day guy's!

Chad

he went exactly 40 yards full tilt, at dropped like a light.

i should also add, that the arrow (a/c/c 3-71) never did a pass-thru, in fact the whole arrow was inside of him and it was totally broken in two.

serb

Here is a picture.

The shape of the sternum is wrong. The size, shape and placement of the ribs, especially the opening created by the first ribs, is incorrect. The illustration is not even close to the anatomy of an elk, or any other deer.

Best case for me, double lung near the heart... maybe I will nick a main artery or vein. But I will always go for the double lung at least for now...

Great thread excellent discussion that every ethical bowhunter should be totally intrigued by!

I just think in terms of tracking, two holes and no arrow is better than one hole plugged with an arrow.

For everyone that takes these shots what percentage are pass throughs and what grain arrow and fps are you shooting?

Thanks... great thread

G

After returning from Africa I shot my animals here the same and they are dead my elk went 10 yards. Good info in here.

In 2009, just prior to my Colorado 61 elk hunt, I hiked up early one morning to sit one of my tree stand I have above the city.

I arrived 20 minutes late, so I just slowly snuck towards my stand, when I noticed a spike standing at the waters edge. He was almost broadside and had not seen me, so I drew my bow, but when I did he turned just slightly towards me. Once he moved that way, I knew I had to aim a couple of inches farther forward, than I would, had he stayed perfectly broadside

Notice in the photo how far forward the hit is. I cleaned off the blood, but you can still see where the arrow entered his body. He ran less than 30 yards and fell over.

There are still lots of people out there, that still shoot way too far back. Keep it forward and you kill far more animals, with far shorter blood trials, and in most instances, you will see them fall over.

I will add a bit more in a day or so and show a good example of why you want to keep the arrow so forward, and not at the crease as many hunters still seem to do.

Have a great bow hunt BB

Sorry had to say it.

Great thread with good info guys.

In the heat of the moment I have to find a way to recall this....

Marc

I was just checking this again, too ... because of all the great information and discussion. Hopefully, it comes in handy this year.

Good luck to all.

I know its an antelope, but for sake of this conversation, let's just pretend its was a bull elk.

This elk came in close and gave me what I thought was a broadside shot. Because I have learned how important it is to shoot forward, I aimed right up the front of the front leg of this bull, and that's exactly where I hit as you can see in this photo.

(remember this is a bull elk, not an antelope)

The red dot is where my arrow entered the bull, and was I ever amazed when he didn't go down in 2 or 3 seconds, which is pretty much standard with a broadside hit like that.

Thankfully he stayed in an opening and I watched him go down about 100 yards out. When I walked up to my bull, I saw why he lived so long and didn't go down immediately, like most do, that are hit in that manner.

Here's how my spike (or is it a two point?) looked when I walked up to him.

Now let's analyze the hit a bit. In my eye, the bull was standing broadside, but in reality he either turned fast, or in the heat of the moment I missed judged the way he was standing. I think the second scenario occurred. But either way, my arrow ended up on a much different angle than how I had perceived it.

Now lets take that a step farther and say I shot the crease. Now we have a bull that is one lunged and who knows how far he will make it, and how good the blood trail will be. In my mind, I know I poofed him, so I get on the blood trail, after a decent wait, and in 100 yards, when I haven't yet found him I just can't believe it. So I continue and soon I jump him and now he's geared up and knows a predator is after him, and with his will to live, he puts a ton of distance between he and I. The blood trail becomes scarce, and hard to follow. Has something like this ever happened to you? Now you are wondering, "What the heck happened" as I saw my arrow and know I hit both lungs!

Had I shot even father back, than the crease (and there are still a lot of bowhunters that do) you can imagine the nightmare it would become.

I say keep that aiming point way up front on on broadside shots and save your self and the critter this pain.

Have a great bow hunt. BB

Good post aim forward. These posts have me leaning away from my usual 2 inch cut mechs. As a nice fixed head will do better on a shoulder hit more forward border and really on a elk 2 inch or 1 inch to far back equals no elk.

Thanks again bb great thread!

Myself, I would prefer to be just a bit higher.

Keep the photos coming, and thanks for the pics BB! I'm sure I'm not the only one who follows your posts like a hound on a cat trail!

Great thread!!

Zip'

Zip'

pretty good pic of shoulder

Have a great bow hunt. BB

IMO hitting and slicing open an aorta will have the immediate effect of filling the chest making it impossible for the elk to be on its feet more than 15-30 seconds due to lack of brain perfusion. The last one I shot this way bolted away on a full run but only could make it 150 ft before collapsing. It's the shot I always try for if give the right circumstance but you must know your anatomy and be able to visualize where everything is situated within the animal in any given position. It needs to a fluid perception as muscles and skeletal structures twist, flex, extend and contract on the living target.

Keep up this thread, it is sure to help some be better hunters.

BB, you're an asset to us all!

...and to top it off there's no bitching at eachother!

Thanks guys

Good luck and good hunting

Kenneth (A British Bowhunter and Proud of It)

Don't feel quite so robbed by my 26 yard shot on this 3-D bull. The 10 scoring ring was on the shoulder? All 3 arrows were too far back and low. Target was quartering slightly as you can see by the arrow placement. I felt the manufacture was nuts! Who wants to get near those big bones especially with a 52# trad bow? My arrow (yellow & barred white) should be 3" closer to the shoulder from what I gleam from all of this. Looks like I would have caught bottom lung behind the hart with the 15% angle of entry.

Bill V.

Surely I am not the only 'Siter who can't help but see the irony in each and every post?

Second hunter shoots a bull with the perfect quartering away shot at 33 yards but the bull is walking slowly and the usual, "I hit him a little far back." Bull doesn't go far but isn't dead. They have to make a sneak and get another arrow in him while he's on his feet again.

Had either of these bulls been lost, I wonder which hunter would have been chastised the most for taking an unethical shot? :)

Exit hole aim point still works quartering away and uphill :)

I think it’s a perfect example of someone putting out a video that shouldn’t be putting out a video.

I found that out the hard way on 2 elk in CO. Lots of blood (at first and where they bedded over night. 6 to 8" of arrow penetration thru the scap too! On both animals. That's why I say no guarantee the animal lives.

In the future I will be shooting just a little bit back. Those 2 scap hits would have been high double lung hits and short recoveries. And my kill percentage would be higher than it's current 60-70%