Mathews Inc.
Mountain Lion in New Hampshire?
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
Ole Coyote 08-Oct-07
Bou'bound 08-Oct-07
Ole Coyote 08-Oct-07
bb 08-Oct-07
FreezeGopher 08-Oct-07
Boomerdog in OK 08-Oct-07
Katahdin 08-Oct-07
bb 08-Oct-07
Rick McGowan 08-Oct-07
FreezeGopher 08-Oct-07
Bill in MI 08-Oct-07
bullelk 08-Oct-07
bb 08-Oct-07
Ron 08-Oct-07
MTCPA 08-Oct-07
Trykon33 09-Oct-07
jdrdeerslayer 10-Oct-07
Coyote 65 10-Oct-07
Rick McGowan 10-Oct-07
bb 10-Oct-07
MTCPA 10-Oct-07
Rick McGowan 11-Oct-07
deerjunkie 11-Oct-07
AZ~Rich 11-Oct-07
Rick McGowan 11-Oct-07
Dave Bent Arrow 11-Oct-07
alwayslookin 12-Oct-07
SuperCub 12-Oct-07
Rick McGowan 12-Oct-07
loadedforbear 12-Oct-07
Ron 18-Oct-07
Ron 18-Oct-07
Rick McGowan 18-Oct-07
Ron 18-Oct-07
houckie 19-Oct-07
Brotsky 19-Oct-07
Ron 19-Oct-07
maya 10-Feb-08
leftee 10-Feb-08
leftee 10-Feb-08
Slivrstkr 10-Feb-08
writer 10-Feb-08
leftee 10-Feb-08
leftee 10-Feb-08
guidermd 10-Feb-08
Razorback 11-Feb-08
Ron 11-Feb-08
Panhandle Bob 11-Feb-08
maya 12-Feb-08
writer 12-Feb-08
maya 15-Feb-08
Ron 15-Feb-08
bb 15-Feb-08
Panhandle Bob 15-Feb-08
Ron 15-Feb-08
bb 15-Feb-08
Ron 15-Feb-08
Ron 15-Feb-08
bb 15-Feb-08
bb 15-Feb-08
Ron 15-Feb-08
Ron 15-Feb-08
elmer 16-Feb-08
bb 16-Feb-08
Cavo718 31-Mar-22
LBshooter 31-Mar-22
spike78 31-Mar-22
Shuteye 31-Mar-22
Grey Ghost 31-Mar-22
Aspen Ghost 31-Mar-22
spike78 31-Mar-22
Corax_latrans 31-Mar-22
Jethro 31-Mar-22
groundhunter50 31-Mar-22
Yellah Nocks 01-Apr-22
DanaC 01-Apr-22
DonVathome 02-Apr-22
Wildan2 04-Apr-22
JohnMC 04-Apr-22
spike78 04-Apr-22
spike78 04-Apr-22
Coyote 65 04-Apr-22
Squash 04-Apr-22
DanaC 05-Apr-22
Zbone 11-Apr-22
LINK 11-Apr-22
From: Ole Coyote
08-Oct-07
Hey, is there anyone who has seen a Lion in northern New Hampshire? Maybe has pictures of foot prints in mud or snow? A picture of the Lion? I have hunted in New Hampshire near the Canadian border for over forty years and this is the first time I believe I have seen a large cat. I did not get a really first class look but it was good enough to give the impression of a cat. I was sitting on a log looking across a small valley at a clear cut and using binoculars to look for moose or deer feeding. I reached for my sandwich and movement caught my eye. I grabed the glasses and all I caught was a blur of creamy yellow and four legs moving like hell across the clear cut near the far edge then it was gone into the heavy timber and brush. Total view time maybe four seconds probably less. Could have been a cinnamom bear just not really sure. I checked the area carefully after lunch but could not find any prints or scat, no trees clawed. Some good acorns dropping but no scat near the trees. The ground where it was running shows some disturbance but I would expect it to be heavier if it was a bear. What you all think? No I do not drink, lol!

From: Bou'bound
08-Oct-07
a cinnamon bear there would be not much more common than a lion

From: Ole Coyote
08-Oct-07
Your right , still wondering what it was? I was about three miles in from the dirt road that the lumber company maintains, just too far for a dog. Hmm, wondering now if it might have beeen a large coyote? I bet that's what it was!

From: bb
08-Oct-07
My reaction is Lynx, in fact I would bet on it before I bet on lion.

They are pretty good size and Could be mistaken for a lion if you weren't able to get a good look.

From: FreezeGopher
08-Oct-07
There are mountain lion in Massachusetts. The book MAMMAL TRACKS & SIGN by Mark Elbroch has pictures of mountain lion scat found at a multiple beaver kill. I have no doubt that there are mountain lion roaming New Hampshire. There were several sightings in CT over the last few months. One was in Shelton.

08-Oct-07
I saw one cross a skidder trail many moons ago in the Rangeley Lakes area of western Maine. Folks didn't believe me then and probably won't now, but I know what I saw and it wasn't a lynx.

From: Katahdin
08-Oct-07
If you believe all of the stories then we are over run with then in Maine.

From: bb
08-Oct-07
"There were several sightings in CT over the last few months. One was in Shelton."

No there were possible sightings, similar to all the bigfoot sightings.

From: Rick McGowan
08-Oct-07
There are no mountain lions wild in the eastern US, how would they get there? Its only about a 2000 mile trip for them, from anywhere. All over the eastern US people THINK they may have seen one, but not ONE ever turns up. Not ONE in a hundred years or so.

From: FreezeGopher
08-Oct-07
..."And there was just not one massive scat, which could have been a fluke bowel movement, but four (a fifth had appeared at the site the next time John visited, atop the cache remains). The combination of the cache, the covered kill (of which almost nothing remained), and the presence of a predator strong enough to break large bones convinced me that it was cougar sign, and I told John so. Scats were collected, and with the help of paul Rezendes, they were DNA tested twice by the Wildlife Conservation Society at the Bronx Zoo and by Virginia Tech. Both results confirmed North American Mountain Lion, Puma concolor-no question." - Dr. Mark Elbroch MAMMAL TRACKS & SIGN A Guide To North American Species page 456

Now I'd call that proof that in the specific incident documented that there was at least one cougar east of the Missippi.

I would suggest checking the book out of the library, you might want to buy it. The book is a great resource for hunters.

From: Bill in MI
08-Oct-07
They are there, the question is whether they are there thru migration or by release.

Game farms animals, preserves, and "pets" make it into the wild all the time.

A self sustaining breeding population is another story and is much harder to prove.

Bill in MI

From: bullelk
08-Oct-07
Most people (including myself) who have seen a lion in the road remember the long tail. It will appear nearly as long as the body.

From: bb
08-Oct-07
I know a guy in CT who saw one, but there was also an escapee from a farm in the area. The article in the paper regarding the sightings describes a cat with pointy ears. I can't remember the last lion I have seen with pointy ears.

From: Ron
08-Oct-07
Never has been a sighting of cougars east of the Mississippi? Maybe not a picture but one was killed in IL. a couple of years ago and there is also reports of cougars killed in KY. Go to the East Cougar foundation and they give you a pretty accurate account of cougars killed in North America.

From: MTCPA
08-Oct-07
There has been evidence of them in the UP of Michigan as well. I believe there was one hit by a car and the hair samples taken from the car confirmed that it was a mountain lion. They did not recover the cat.

From: Trykon33
09-Oct-07
maybe warming global make Mountian Lion change new migrate to New England from Canada (possible theory)

10-Oct-07
as much as i dont belive it....a few years back they found a odd kill and scat in the quabbin res. in massachusetts(right out my door) they sent the scat off to a lab and it confirmed cougar/mountain lion. state chaulked it up to must of been a escaped pet....even though no one ever hears of one as a pet and their is several other people in the area that swear they have seen one....till i see one i dont really belive it but, they did have some proof so you never know

From: Coyote 65
10-Oct-07

Coyote 65's embedded Photo
Coyote 65's embedded Photo
Maybe it was this cat?

Terry

From: Rick McGowan
10-Oct-07
MILLIONS of hunters, over a MILLION in Michigan alone and many hunting with hounds for bear, coon, bobcat etc. AND NOT ONE eastern cougar confirmed, not one! Hunters did kill the last CONFIRMED cougar in Michigan over a 100 years ago, but not one since? I don't believe anything that comes from the Eastern Cougar foundation, if you believe that you might as well go to the Big Foot site, they have the same evidence, actually more.

From: bb
10-Oct-07
"MILLIONS of hunters, over a MILLION in Michigan alone and many hunting with hounds for bear, coon, bobcat etc. AND NOT ONE eastern cougar confirmed, not one! Hunters did kill the last CONFIRMED cougar in Michigan over a 100 years ago, but not one since? I don't believe anything that comes from the Eastern Cougar foundation"

Rick, I couldn't have said it better, That's pretty much the same way I feel when I hear of Mountain Lions in New England. How come livestock are not being killed? It is far easier for a lion to kill livestock than deer. The photos of lions or tracks or any other purported evidence I have seen are about the same quality as the ones of the Loch Ness Monster and Big Foot. Yet the same camera and photographer can produce perfect Photos of anything else.

From: MTCPA
10-Oct-07
"MILLIONS of hunters, over a MILLION in Michigan alone and many hunting with hounds for bear, coon, bobcat etc. AND NOT ONE eastern cougar confirmed, not one! Hunters did kill the last CONFIRMED cougar in Michigan over a 100 years ago, but not one since? I don't believe anything that comes from the Eastern Cougar foundation, if you believe that you might as well go to the Big Foot site, they have the same evidence, actually more."

If you do some digging you will find some very compelling information from people that have no agenda. I am talking about college professors and other professionals including law enforcement officers. I tend to believe that cats may travel from the west and may occasionally visit the eastern states. Heck, there have been situations where a wolf tagged in the UP of Michigan was shot in Missouri and where a bobcat trapped and tagged in Indiana was later found dead on the other side of the Mississippi. We have no idea how far animals will travel when in search of new territory. To totally dismiss the sitings of so many people is sort of close minded.

From: Rick McGowan
11-Oct-07
MTCPA, I have interviewed MANY eye witnesses to various things, including "cougar" sightings. Regardless of what you see on lawyer TV shows, the eyewitness is the least reliable form of evidence. The experienced hunter that I interviewed less than an hour after he saw his "cougar", broadside, in the open, in good light, 35 yards away, the ONLY detail that he could come up with was that it was a "big cat". He couldn't say whether it had a long or short tail, what color it was, whether it had spots or not, etc. etc. etc., but he was certain that it was a cougar! I also don't buy into all those reports on animals supposedly showing up thousands of miles from where they should be or swimming the Mississippi, several years ago, there was a front page report of an armidillo being a roadkill in Montana. I know the person that brought that armidillo from Alabama and laid in on the side of the road in MT! The "confirmed" report of the cougar being hit by a car in Michigan was retracted as a fraud shortly after.

From: deerjunkie
11-Oct-07

deerjunkie's embedded Photo
deerjunkie's embedded Photo
What is in this picture off my trail cam. Has a long tail like a mountain lion.

From: AZ~Rich
11-Oct-07
I believe the furthest that any Mtn Lion has ventured which had been positively confirmed with radio collar was a male that traveled something like 1500 miles from Montana. It would be rather unusual for them to travel that far, but it certainly is possible and has in fact happened. Male jaguars also venture several hundred miles up from Mexico into AZ on occasion. They inhabited the Eastern US before colonial times, so why would they not like it now, except for all the people and roads. Their prey is certainly abundant in the East. I think it's entirely possible an occasional lion gets back into that environment. Coyotes certainly shifted some of their population the East within the last 50-100 yrs.

From: Rick McGowan
11-Oct-07
Coyotes have large breeding populations and have no problems living around people and urban areas. Each generation spreads out a bit more. Its 2000 miles from MT to NH, with the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers in between, oh, also the Great Lakes. Why aren't there jaguars and cougars in the east now(with the exception of the Florida panther), because people killed them all, a long long time ago.

11-Oct-07
I live in the rural area of North Central Pa. We constantly have reports of mt lion sightings. Even had a forest service worker see a mt lion pull down a 4 pt. buck.

What seems strange to me, where are they when the snow flies. They don't hibernate. They have to leave tracks. You never hear the stories when there is snow on to confirm a sighting.

And the mt lion that killed the buck. It was a cat. A bobcat. DAVE

From: alwayslookin
12-Oct-07
Junkie , That looks like a d.a w.g., son.......definitely no cat. I an with bb.....Lynx.....Check the Eastern Cougar research team data.....all Florida strain panthers in the evidence pile. Pets. Most declawed and no canine teeth, dead by the end of winter if they are in ME,NH,VT, etc.

From: SuperCub
12-Oct-07
Last year a big cat was caught on US Border Patrol video in northern New York. Biologists determined that it was a mountain lion, but could not tell if it was a released pet or wild.

From: Rick McGowan
12-Oct-07
Cougars released from captivity last a VERY short time in the wild, they have none of the skills they need. Even wild cougars have a high mortality rate when they are first out on their own.

12-Oct-07
lynx.... if there were mt lions in the east like a lot claim to have seen someone would have killed one by now.

From: Ron
18-Oct-07

Ron's embedded Photo
Ron's embedded Photo
Cougars have been moving East for many years now. MN., MO., NE, IA. all have confirmed cougar sightings one was even killed in IL. a couple of years ago. This is what confirm means. When they are dead in the back of a pickup. This was shot in IA. I have been following the confirmation of cougars here in the Mid west and every one I have checked out and so far was confirmed was listed in the Eastern Cougar's chart.

Cougars were in just about every state in the union at one time and there is no reason why they can't return. Some one posted that penned cougars could never make it and he is right but with the turkey and deer all states have now there is ne reason why they should eventialy spread east. MO. has had two killed in just the last two years and hunters are now catching them on trail cams as well.

From: Ron
18-Oct-07

Ron's embedded Photo
Ron's embedded Photo
This cougar was hit by a train a couple of months after I asked the state of SD if it was possible that their cougars was moving south. They said no way. As you can see it has a collar and you guessed it,the collar was traced back to SD. It was a young male and some how it had traveled all the way from SD to OK.

From: Rick McGowan
18-Oct-07
The way I heard it the one in IL was FOUND dead, that don't mean it was killed there.

From: Ron
18-Oct-07
That's true the ones killed in IA.,MO. and even the one in OK. may have been killed some where else, possible but unlikely. Everyone I have checked out so far has been young males with no signs of them ever have been being pets or caged.

From: houckie
19-Oct-07

houckie's embedded Photo
houckie's embedded Photo
They have been seeing them here in new york for as long as i can remember. I,ve hunted and trapped these mnts for over 40 yrs and have yet to see any sign. That was untill my close call this summer while hiking one day. Thank god i played dead. He would have finished me for sure

From: Brotsky
19-Oct-07
South Dakota lions are showing up all over the midwest. Iowa, MN, NE, ND, MO, KS, OK...etc. The problem with lions is that the males are very territorial and will drive the young males out of their territory or kill them. A male lion may have a territory of 100 square miles or more. South Dakota has a large lion population in the Black Hills. I've seen a couple in a day before out there while elk hunting(don't cow call unless you can watch your back;-). Our lions will keep spreading east until we can get them under control. The problem is that we have a bunch of wackos from Cali that protest every time we try to start a season on them. We can finally kill 35 but only so many females. The biggest problem is that we can't use dogs. The F&G issues tags and people can shoot them when they see them which isn't often. If we could use dogs we could effectively thin the male population with as many tags as necessary and stop them from spreading outside of their intended habitat.

From: Ron
19-Oct-07
The jury is still out on Kansas. I know the Eastern Cougar has one listed in Lawrence Kansas but this was never confirmed. Numerous sitings were made on the KU campus and a very poor quality trail cam picture was taken as well as scat but there was some dispute on the scat test. On the other hand it is pretty hard to believe that the one found in Red Rock OK. would have went around Kansas to get from SD to OK.

Kansas City MO. is only 35 miles from Lawrence and there was one killed there.

I have now heard that NE. believes they have a breeding population of the cats as well.

I think SD. has got their self into a can of worms on their cougar plan and it is going to be real interesting on how they deal with it. As far as I know IA. is about the only state in the Midwest where a hunter can legally shoot a cougar and I think there is plans to get that law changed.

Like the wolves that have been reintroduce out west, these cats are not the Eastern cougar which are a protected species. How you can tell the difference is be on me.

From: maya
10-Feb-08
I saw two a few years ago here in VT. One was at 30 yards while I was bowhunting. You can make all the foolish comments you want but I know what I saw. Another crossing a road where several others have seen one.

Someone got a pic of one in southern VT and they are looking at ti now to make a determination if the pic is fake.

From: leftee
10-Feb-08
Check another recent thread here.One was just legally shot in se North Dakota.

From: leftee
10-Feb-08
As far as 'east of the Mississipi',check out the same thread.

From: Slivrstkr
10-Feb-08
I have lived and hunted NH all my life and never have I or anyone I know, seen a mountain lion. I think the possibility of a wolf in northern NH is more possible.

From: writer
10-Feb-08
"One was just legally shot in se North Dakota."

That's a heck of a lot closer to proven lion country than New Hampshire!

"I know what I saw."...wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard that in Kansas...but still no verified proof, but several of the "I know what I saw" tales have ended up being mangy coyotes, bobcats and one feral house cat.

From: leftee
10-Feb-08
Writer,once again you have problems reading and comprehending I'm afraid.I have a vague idea where NoDak is in relationship to New Hampshire.My comment about the one just shot legally in NoDak was in reference to a statement 2 posts prior that Iowa was the only State where shooting a lion was legal in the Midwest.

From: leftee
10-Feb-08
http://audubonofkansas.blogspot.com/2007/09/mountain-lions-confirmed-in-kansas.html

From: guidermd
10-Feb-08
we've got them in western maryland, and west virginia dnr has recognized them as being present in that state. my daughter watched one while bowhunting from her stand for 45 minutes.

From: Razorback
11-Feb-08
Why do some people just not believe it is possible?

They were here before white man, it is their land you know.

From: Ron
11-Feb-08
Good post Leftee on the Kansas Audubon. Live in Kansas and didn't even know about the late sighting and picture. They made an excellent point about not making all this information public for good reasons. I've been on a vendetta for years trying to get proof of them being here and run into the same thing. The ones that do have actual proof do not want to go public with it in fear that everyone and their brother will be flocking to the area and run them off or shoot them.

I'm also glad to learn that some one other than myself believe that it is possible but highly unlikely that a cougar can travel from SD to northern OK. with out going through the state of Kansas.

11-Feb-08

Panhandle Bob's embedded Photo
Panhandle Bob's embedded Photo
Maybe it's one of ours...being east of the Mississippi and all....

From: maya
12-Feb-08
You are one arrogent SOB Writer! I wish I had a dollar for every SOB that said, you don't understand what you saw! I got some prints, someone got a pic of one up here and there are so many sightings in Vt that the F&W set up a division to handle it. They even had a biologist go out west to study them with a couple other states F&W depts because it is likely that there is more to the story than what the grand ole "Writer" thinks! But you've probably heard all that before haven't you?

Writer knows all!

From: writer
12-Feb-08
If I'm an SOB isn't accurate, or appreciated. My mother was a saint of a woman who died way too soon at 36.

If I'm arrogant is a matter of opinion, and everybody has a right to their own.

I prefer "frustrated" because of the reasons listed above.I may have come on a little strong, I guess, and offer sincere apologies to most.

Hardly a week passes that I don't have to explain to someone why we're not running a front page story that they, or a friend, said they saw a mountain lion in Kansas.

I even had a guy threaten to get me fired because I wouldn't invest a week of time looking for the mountain lion he and his wife saw near their home. An avid trapper spent some time there, though, and found big dog and coyote tracks in the snow.

Our game wardens and field biologists are also hounded by calls, though nobody has shown them a viable track or photo. (As for the Audubon site on Kansas mountain lions they've yet to have independent biologists examine their "proof."..which is standard biological procedure.)

Nope, we've never had proof in Kansas but I deeply believe the occasional cat is here. They've been confirmed in every surrounding state, where biologists are frustrated by far more dead-end reports than sure leads.

I've never claimed to know all, not even close, but I do know that nothing seems to trigger tempers quite like talk of mountain lions.

Maya, you may want to share your finds with the Cougar Network because they show no evidence in Vermont or New Hampshire...though there's a good find in Mass, apparently.

From: maya
15-Feb-08
The Vt F&W has a program set up and I gave them the unformation.

From: Ron
15-Feb-08
For those that are truly interested in them go to the Eastern cougar foundation web site. They have been following the cougar expansion for several years now and have maps of confirmed sightings accost the whole country. In fact I just checked them out again and discovered that there have been numerous sightings in Ontario Canada. They show that IA. now has 13 confirmed sightings.

From: bb
15-Feb-08
"When is the last time many eastern residents saw even a racoon or possum? Nocturnal animals go unseen by many and a lion has much less tolerance of human presence."

Many Eastern residents may not see raccoons or possums but many do. More importantly, the tracks and evidence that they exist in the area are easy to verify. Many dead on the highways. Even if people don't regularly see them at night one would have to be blind or never get out and drive the highways if they can't find evidence. Unlike mountain lions, No One is providing solid evidence of their existence. States can set up all the departments they want to address the potential but unless there is solid evidence it doesn't mean much. Most people can't tell the difference between a dog track and a lion track, even those that have seen lion tracks. You don't always see claw marks in dog tracks. Most people in the West where there are significant numbers of lions have never seen one in the wild, but if you want to look for evidence, it is not hard to find. Out here there are plenty of "sightings" but no one can provide a legitimate track, kill or any other evidence one normally sees with a particular species inhabiting an area. When a lion makes a kill, it is not hard to determine visually that it is a lion kill. In the East it would stand to reason that there would be many farm animals killed (easy pickins for a lion) much easier than deer. I have never heard of any issues with sheep or cattle being killed. Frankly, there are probably a few around, no doubt escapees but no one is able to prove that there is a breeding population of wild mountain lions in at least the Northeast. All the bear hunters, bobcat hunters and coon hunters, running hounds one would think just by accident that they would tree a lion if they were in this area. Unless there is more evidence than anyone has provided to date, all the talk about lions in New england amounts to nothing.

15-Feb-08
This is interesting...

Cougars have been referred to by many names. Traveling near the Everglades in 1513 Spanish explorer Cabeza de Vaca reported seeing a lion. Other European explorers believed they were seeing tigers or panthers (a name used for African leopards). European settlers modified lion to mountain lion, a name still used today in the western United States, although cougars inhabit many places other than mountains. Those in portions of the southern and eastern United States referred to the big cat as "painter," which is probably a dialect variation of panther. New Englanders coined the term "catamount" or cat of the mountain.

From: Ron
15-Feb-08
I have to disagree with you on some of your points BB. For grins go to the Eastern Cougar foundation web site and check out the dots in Ontario on confirmed sightings. It's not impossible for a young male to travel over 600 miles. It has been documented here in the Midwest when a cougar tagged in SD. made it all the way down to OK. Coon hunters around here are only a part of our past. Back in the old days coon hunters would run coons for miles going from one land owner to an other today that practice is frown on. I think when cougars do start making their way east trail cams will be the first to catch them. One thing that ever cougar around here has in common is that they all have evidence of coon in their stomach. No better place to find coon than at corn feeders. Hunters were responsible for the demise of cougars but not in the way most think. Cougars at one time were found across our country hunters killed off their food source not them and today other than elk deer population population exceeds what it did when Europeans came here.

From: bb
15-Feb-08
Ron, I have seen their website and their confirmed sightings.Until locals can show evidence in a given area they are not convincing me. When someone asks if there are cougars (lions) in a particular place such as New Hampshire, that question leaves one to imagine they are talking about a breeding population. An occasional cougar passing through once in a while is much different that's not a breeding population.

When I was coon hunting we would occasionally tree bobcats. There are alot of bear hunters in Northern New England that should be occasionally treeing lions, I have never heard of any treeing one. That to me is very telling.

From: Ron
15-Feb-08
BB, I checked out the Eastern Cougar Foundation several years ago. These guys got started by as their name refers to and that was to document the Eastern cougar population. From what I have learned so far is that there are four species of cougar. Western Cougar, Eastern cougar, Florida cougar and the South American cougar. From what I understand the eastern cougar is pretty much considered extinct. Each species apparently has a distinct D&A. What we are seeing I believe is that the western Cougar is doing fine and moving East. I can't speak for what you guys are seeing back east and up north but every documented case here in the Midwest I have check on these guys were dead on. The one exception was the one here in Lawrence Kansas. They have it listed as a confirm sighting but the jury is still out on that one.

We are not talking about Bigfoots, Martians or Lock nest monsters here we are talking about an animal that is real, that has lived in these areas once and can do it again. Do I believe that ever report is true? No but it is possible and I personally think that these sightings should not be laughed away. One thing I do not believe is that these cats are pets that got turned loose. Tame and cage animals just don't have what it takes to make it in the wild. It took them years to establish a breeding population of wolves out west just for this reason. Once they were establish however they have been on the move. Not long ago one was found killed by a car as far south as CO. Just last year a Lynx was discovered in Western Kansas and a few years before that one was found in Western NE.. Investigation found out that the cats came from CO. where they were introduced which originally came from Canada.

The cougars we are hearing about here in the Mid west are real. I have always thought that they were coming south from the breeding population in South Dakota and every one is now believing the same. The ones in OK. are probably coming from the breeding population from TX.

From: Ron
15-Feb-08

Ron's embedded Photo
Ron's embedded Photo
Now you do Mul Pwr.

From: bb
15-Feb-08
"That is of course if you think the source is reliable. The sources I know are."

That is a big if.

"I don't know of anyone who's watched racoons breeding either but I bet they do."

I don't think you need to watch them breed to make that determination. You could make a good case for a breeding population if you are finding more evidence of existence than an occasional pass through, several babies hit by cars on the side of the road makes for a strong argument.

Ron,

I have much less doubts about their existence in some of the midwestern states you mention. There are established known populations in relatively close proximity so it makes it feasible. I believe they can exist in New England however there are no confirmed populations nearby to expand from and there is no physical evidence that they exist which makes it incredibly hard to believe they exist. The only evidence we have are some eyewitness sightings and we know how unreliable eyewitnesses can be.

From: bb
15-Feb-08
"Ya' got me there BB you peeping Tom. LOL"

As much as I'd like to I can't take credit for that. :)

I can't speak to what has been found in KY but they aren't finding any in New England. And "Eastern Woods" is relative to which direction of the compass you have to look to see the area in question:)

"If you get a good look at a lion, even a small one, there is no animal that can compare to or be mistaken for one."

You would think so, but Bobcats and Lynx are constantly being mistaken even certain dogs.

From: Ron
15-Feb-08
The incident in KY. was a rare case and I would have to admit that this would have to be a case of a pet or cage animal. It's possible but very unlikely that a South American cat made it all the way up here. I have had my share of tall stories as well but never place a person in an embarrassing situation and never laugh at any one's story. It's pretty sad when our air line pilots can't report an unidentified object that they may see while flying because they may be ridiculed. There are things that go bump in the night for reasons we can't explain I just don't think that cougars are one of them. I think they are real but only time will tell.

From: Ron
15-Feb-08
Here is an incident that happen to me back in the late 70s was when I was up in the Piance Creek area of CO. bow hunting around the Book Cliffs. Going to my blind I had a wolf run in front of my dirt bike. From Kansas I know what a coyote looks like and this was no coyote but a wolf weighing over 100 pounds. When I got back to camp I told the story and since wolves had been gone from Co for years I got the same reaction that these folks get when they report seeing the large cat. Later when the game warden made his rounds I told him what I had seen. He told me I probably did. He went on to say that the late John Denver had turned them loose and it was probably one that had made it from up around Vail. I continued to go up there year after year and never saw another one.

From: elmer
16-Feb-08
A friend's dad and mom in Cornwall Vermont about 6 or 7 years ago had a mountain lion on their farm. Saw it on multiple occassions. Vt Fish and game came out and there were tracks and scat. Can't convince me there are no mt lions in Vermont or none east of the mississippi. One of Vermont's nicknames is the Catamount State. Refers to mtn lions from the old days. They were there....now they're coming back to where they once were. Just like moose. Moose once populated vermont. Were all killed off. Now they're back. Elk once inhabited every state in the union, they don't now, but with re introductions and migrations, they are taking over more historical territory. Mtn lions are doing the same.

From: bb
16-Feb-08
I know the University of Vermont goes by the nickname Catamounts but I have never heard of the State nicknamed that. The nickname for the State is the "Green Mountain State"

Having one hanging around the farm 6 or 7 yrs ago still doesn't prove anything. How many are there now or in the area?

From: Cavo718
31-Mar-22

Cavo718 's embedded Photo
Cavo718 's embedded Photo
I live in Claremont, New Hampshire & have 16 acres my neighbors have around 25 and there is farm land & a tree farm behind that. There is a mountain Lion that had Cubs last year & my neighbor has a few pics.

From: LBshooter
31-Mar-22
If we have them in Chicago I'm sure you a one or two running around your woods.

From: spike78
31-Mar-22
I’m from MA and put me in the I believe they are here category.

From: Shuteye
31-Mar-22
I think Florida is East of the Mississippi and they certainly have pumas. Pumas look like mountain lions to me. Couldn't call them mountain lions in Florida since there ain't no mountains.

From: Grey Ghost
31-Mar-22
So, after 13 years of speculation on this thread, do we have the first confirmed pic of a mountain lion in New Hampshire?

Matt

From: Aspen Ghost
31-Mar-22

Aspen Ghost's Link
How about Connecticut?

From: spike78
31-Mar-22

spike78's Link
And in Maine

31-Mar-22
Dude, seriously? We had ONE cat, 11 years ago.

That’s NOT a population.

From: Jethro
31-Mar-22
Cats probably dead by now

31-Mar-22
So what,,,, what is the issue,, New Hampshire, that place does not have a clue,,, beautful area, that for most has been off the radar for years,,,my uncles listtened to me and all move west, out of that WOKE area....... I have met some of the best trappers in the last 40 years out of New Hampshire, and they were crapped on, by their own hunting community.............. You reap, what you sow,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

From: Yellah Nocks
01-Apr-22
My wife hunts sheds. One year after a snowfall she found a deer stuffed up a maple about 12 or 15 foot up. Tracks like a circus lion and no drag marks to the tree. We just saw fresh tracks cut on our unpaved road last week. Location is Sebec, Maine. Oh yes, they are most definitely here. We NEVER venture into the timber without a little something to help "tame" the kitties.

From: DanaC
01-Apr-22

DanaC's embedded Photo
DanaC's embedded Photo
Mt lions can roam a thousand miles from their birth areas. The one was found dead in Connecticut, they figure it had come all the way from North Dakota. The presence of a single lion is not indicative of a 'breeding population.'

I've had a few people here whose word I trust, tell me they had seen one. I've been running trail cameras in central MA for ten years now and got pix of everything from otters to moose, but no lions.

From: DonVathome
02-Apr-22
A few years ago I saw an article about a collared male mnt lion that headed East. He hit the great lakes and veered north then East some more. I think he entered Michigan.

From: Wildan2
04-Apr-22
If mountain lions don't exist in NY state "why are they protected".I have talked to a dozen outdoor people that have seen them,including DEC personnel. I believe they were transported by the state into NY(at least one was collared).

From: JohnMC
04-Apr-22
Never heard of mountain lions taking their prey up a tree. They might cover with leaves or dirt but I don't think they take deer sized animals up a tree like leopard in Africa.

From: spike78
04-Apr-22
If that’s the case then the question is what animal does?

From: spike78
04-Apr-22

spike78's Link
How did this mule deer get 14 feet up in a tree John?

From: Coyote 65
04-Apr-22
When I lived in West Texas I often went to Monahans State Park. Nothing like hiking in sand for fitness. Saw Big tracks in the sand. Took a picture with my leatherman ruler next to them and reported them to the office at the park. They poo poo'd me and said there is no lions here. Sent them a pict via email and the gps coordinates via email. Next time I visited there was a sign that a mountain lion had been spotted in the area and keep a close watch on your dogs and kids.

There everywhere.

I now live in an inholding in the Tonto NF AZ. Two years ago spotted one 1/4 mile from the house. A week later there was a deer killed in my neighbors yard, about 100yds from the house.

There everywhere.

Terry

From: Squash
04-Apr-22
The last bounty paid for a NY Mtn. Lion was paid in 1899, killed in Herkimer County, Town of Webb, considered by many the last indigenous NY Mtn. Lion. Too funny that some believe the NYSDEC is releasing them from their black opps helicopters. With thousands of game cameras out there, where are the legitimate definitive pictures ? Why is it a NY coyote trapper has never caught one ? I’ve worked as an Industrial Forester for 25 years in the Adirondacks and the Tug Hill Plateau, for the largest Timberland Management company in NY, and I’ve never even seen a track. Is it possible there’s the odd lion passing through, yes, but highly unlikely.

From: DanaC
05-Apr-22

DanaC's Link
Wayne, I believe they pass through as you say, but the odds of two - male and female - passing through the same area 1000 miles from 'home', and breeding, are pretty slim. And it would take more than one breeding pair to establish a real population.

So while I believe in 'sightings' in New England I don't worry about getting eaten ;-)

From: Zbone
11-Apr-22
A few years ago, there was storage unit security camera video of one in the suburbs of Columbus Ohio... The video was pretty decent and you could see it was no doubt a cougar..

From: LINK
11-Apr-22
I’m not a lion expert but I’ve spent several years catching bobcats. My brothers and I running the same trap line caught 45 one year. I bet the number of bobcats I’ve seen outside of a trap in 38 years is somewhere around 10-15. I run 4-5 trail cams on different properties and inspire of plenty of bobcats to trap I’ve only had trail cam pics of 3-4 over the last 20 years. Cats are secretive elusive creatures. I could easily see there being a few big cats scattered in the up and east.

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