Moultrie Products
Discuss our Live Kansas Bowhunt 2008
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
ORARCHER 12-Nov-08
Buckiller 12-Nov-08
travis@work 13-Nov-08
travis@work 13-Nov-08
Rupe 13-Nov-08
travis@work 13-Nov-08
Stickthrower 13-Nov-08
travis@work 13-Nov-08
Northwoods 13-Nov-08
Ron 13-Nov-08
Bou'bound 13-Nov-08
DrenAxisTaker 13-Nov-08
BuckSlayer 13-Nov-08
wannabe 13-Nov-08
Rupe 13-Nov-08
Black Wolf 13-Nov-08
Genesis 13-Nov-08
bigbuck 14-Nov-08
travis@work 14-Nov-08
AZBUGLER 14-Nov-08
neverdull 14-Nov-08
Buffalo 14-Nov-08
travis@work 14-Nov-08
Ermine 14-Nov-08
180_BUCK_HUNTER 14-Nov-08
Cassman 14-Nov-08
Bowfreak 14-Nov-08
ruger109 14-Nov-08
Hollywood 14-Nov-08
Slick Head Hunter 15-Nov-08
Rubline 15-Nov-08
FOBROB 15-Nov-08
pybowhunter68 15-Nov-08
elmer 15-Nov-08
'Ike' 16-Nov-08
writer 16-Nov-08
Cassman 16-Nov-08
Bou'bound 16-Nov-08
Davy C 17-Nov-08
Horn Donkey 17-Nov-08
crestedbutte 17-Nov-08
Northwoods 17-Nov-08
Rupe 18-Nov-08
Jax07 18-Nov-08
crestedbutte 18-Nov-08
Northwoods 18-Nov-08
Tater 18-Nov-08
Bou'bound 18-Nov-08
crestedbutte 19-Nov-08
Bou'bound 19-Nov-08
travis@work 19-Nov-08
piton 19-Nov-08
piton 19-Nov-08
KSQ2 19-Nov-08
Ron 19-Nov-08
KSQ2 19-Nov-08
XMan 19-Nov-08
rupescot 19-Nov-08
got_elk? 19-Nov-08
heartshotathome 19-Nov-08
XMan 19-Nov-08
HerdManager 19-Nov-08
HerdManager 19-Nov-08
mjb 19-Nov-08
Iowa bound 19-Nov-08
'Ike' 19-Nov-08
VanDam 19-Nov-08
Deerman1 19-Nov-08
bigbuck 20-Nov-08
travis@work 20-Nov-08
Bou'bound 20-Nov-08
crestedbutte 20-Nov-08
Ron 20-Nov-08
Northwoods 20-Nov-08
'Ike' 20-Nov-08
Cassman 20-Nov-08
Steve Leffler 20-Nov-08
Ryanw 20-Nov-08
txhunter58 20-Nov-08
txhunter58 21-Nov-08
medicinemann 21-Nov-08
Rupe 21-Nov-08
Hollywood 21-Nov-08
BuckSlayer 21-Nov-08
GregS 21-Nov-08
Scotty 21-Nov-08
Bou'bound 21-Nov-08
txhunter58 21-Nov-08
txhunter58 21-Nov-08
2treestands 21-Nov-08
travis@work 21-Nov-08
Ron 21-Nov-08
Northwoods 21-Nov-08
Pain - M 21-Nov-08
LW 21-Nov-08
Camo3415 21-Nov-08
kenn1320 21-Nov-08
Pain - M 21-Nov-08
LW 21-Nov-08
ICT-Bowman 21-Nov-08
Scotty 21-Nov-08
Pain - M 21-Nov-08
Hollywood 21-Nov-08
crestedbutte 22-Nov-08
JGG 22-Nov-08
Deerman1 22-Nov-08
LW 22-Nov-08
txhunter58 22-Nov-08
Samson2 22-Nov-08
LW 22-Nov-08
ICT-Bowman 22-Nov-08
LW 22-Nov-08
txhunter58 22-Nov-08
LW 22-Nov-08
Kicker Point 22-Nov-08
GregS 22-Nov-08
Pain - M 22-Nov-08
Iowa bound 23-Nov-08
XMan 23-Nov-08
medicinemann 23-Nov-08
crestedbutte 23-Nov-08
heartshot 24-Nov-08
XMan 25-Nov-08
Cassman 30-Nov-08
Genesis 30-Nov-08
Ron 30-Nov-08
BuckSlayer 30-Nov-08
LW 30-Nov-08
Genesis 30-Nov-08
Pain - M 30-Nov-08
BuckSlayer 30-Nov-08
Mint 01-Dec-08
Deerman1 01-Dec-08
Cassman 02-Dec-08
Genesis 02-Dec-08
From: ORARCHER
12-Nov-08
Cant wait !!!! Good luck Pat.

From: Buckiller
12-Nov-08
just got back saturday. you should have a great time peroid. Good luck-eric

From: travis@work
13-Nov-08
Should be a great hunt...things are just starting to look up around my neck of the woods. I suspect peak will be next wed or thursday and the big boys will be cruising hot all next week..Been some monster bucks harvested in Ks already this year and the best is yet to come..Have fun Pat---hey is tater hunting this year??

From: travis@work
13-Nov-08
AND---for once it looks like the 10 day forecast is going to be great hunting...course I`m sure there`ll be a few windy days in there---good old Kansas wind...lol

From: Rupe
13-Nov-08
Lonnie, send me your email address The link to PM is broke

From: travis@work
13-Nov-08
I just sent you a PM with no problem.... ltravis@spiritaero.com or home which I hardly seem to check anymore.. ltravis2@cox.net

From: Stickthrower
13-Nov-08
Things really picked up this week. I bumped one that was cruising while still hunting, thought the gig was up, so I stood up to take a pic while he was staring at me. To my suprise, he jumped the fence and came in grunting! Until he noticed that I was shaped unlike any other cedar. No shot. Some good deer have been shot, and the next 2 weeks should be great hunting. Hope you shoot a whopper!

From: travis@work
13-Nov-08
sorry Rupe--here is my work address...lonny.d.travis@spiritaero.com

From: Northwoods
13-Nov-08
Good luck Pat! This hunt is always a highlight of bowsite over the course of a year. Hopefully you can keep the streak alive.

From: Ron
13-Nov-08
From what I'm seeing on the Kansas site your a little too late. Most of the big guys are already in the freezer, Dinks is about all that is left. Good luck any way.

From: Bou'bound
13-Nov-08
when is the last day to hunt. that is when the action normally happens so i'll check in then,

13-Nov-08
What a buck! Why no grunt or bleat to try and bring him in?

From: BuckSlayer
13-Nov-08
Wow! That is a HUGE buck! Lets see him up close and personal! Good Luck!

From: wannabe
13-Nov-08
Good luck with that monster Pat! He's huge.

Passing on that 8 was a good move.

From: Rupe
13-Nov-08
Beautiful deer, although I doubt he makes 180. My guess would be high 160's. Short main beams and he falls off after the G-3.

Good luck with him. It is hard to settle for a lesser buck after seeing a giant like that.

Lonnie, Got the PM I'll be emailing you later

From: Black Wolf
13-Nov-08
Hunt the big buck...

From: Genesis
13-Nov-08
Low 170's,Sneaky beams, good brows.Net just out of BC but really nice.Looks 4 1/2......

Shoot that sucka....

From: bigbuck
14-Nov-08
Pat,smart move passing on the 8,usually good things happen when you dont shoot the first one you think about trying for!!HUNT "THE BIG ONE".GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!

From: travis@work
14-Nov-08
Pat---I wouldn`t get tripped up on that big boy unless ya had a couple weeks to really work on him. he may be two miles from where ya saw him yesterday..course unpressured private land you might get a crack at him but stay open and don`t pass on something you may regret later...I`ve wasted whole seasons on one buck but I`ve also got lucky and scored on two of them...he is a dandy no doubt....is tater up there hunting with you again???????? have a great hunt..looking fwd to the rest of the week

From: AZBUGLER
14-Nov-08
Wow! Just what I needed. Leaving for my Kansas hunt TODAY! It has been a long, long wait. Go gitem Pat!

From: neverdull
14-Nov-08
keep the big one in mind, but dont hesitate to shot the next good one.

From: Buffalo
14-Nov-08

Buffalo's embedded Photo
Buffalo's embedded Photo
Not the same deer to far. How do I delete te pic?

From: travis@work
14-Nov-08
Somebody please tell my dumb butt how to download these videos...at home I can probably watch them but not at work...Thanks

From: Ermine
14-Nov-08
Wow. That big buck is a monster. I would say hunt just for him. He is an awesome buck. I would have been tempted to jump out of the treestand and stalk him. But then again I am from Colorado and the only thing I have ever shot out of a treestand was an Antelope! lol

14-Nov-08
Nice buck, but he won't make 180. I think he will make a high 160 or low 170.

I wouldn't hold out for just one deer. I have been hunting a 220 class whitetail for the last couple of years and have passed on way to many 160 for a shot at him. I've had enough of tag soup, this year if a 160 walks by me he will be going down. The chance of that buck giving you a shot is very slim. Good luck.

From: Cassman
14-Nov-08
That is one huge whitetail. Keep after him Pat.

From: Bowfreak
14-Nov-08
I guess I am the only one that would have been done the first morning on the 7 pointer.

From: ruger109
14-Nov-08
If a kill is what you are after you should have takenthat deer with the warm weather happening ... but we all know that's not why you are up in that tree. It's to match witts with the best that that land has, so get in that stand man ... he's taunting you!!!! hehehehehe

From: Hollywood
14-Nov-08
You've already got a pretty respectable collection of P&Y whitetails, another 140 deer won't be as rewarding. Whack a doe for steaks and hold out for big daddy.

Either way, it'll be worth it and it'll leave a 140 for someone who may have never taken one.

JMHO.

15-Nov-08
Good luck Pat,I hope you nail that monster you caught on film.

From: Rubline
15-Nov-08
I am sure you'll enjoy the hunt Pat, thanks for sharing.

From: FOBROB
15-Nov-08
I would definately hold out for the big one Pat,he will be all that you are thinking about anyway. Given the way it sounds the bucks are cruising if you get a good wind an all day sit could be just what you need to seal the deal on thatbig boy. Good luck and as usual it's a blast checking the updates,you do an awesome job on the live hunts.

15-Nov-08
Hang tight, the moon will be fading by the 19th. Just a thought on the buck the 1st day, never pass up on the first day what you would take on the last day.

From: elmer
15-Nov-08
Pat.......you're killing me........you're passing up bucks that most of us would give our left nut to have the opportunity to put an arrow through!!

From: 'Ike'
16-Nov-08
Pat, your 'slow' days are killing me...I'd have been tagged out with a couple of those already...LoL!

From: writer
16-Nov-08
FYI..Even in Kansas, there are very few places where his days of seeing several bucks would be considered "slow."

He's in a great area, with guides who know their stuff very well.

From: Cassman
16-Nov-08
That was an outstanding video of the turkey shot from the deer stand. Every time I try to draw on a turkey from a stand they spook, and never stop running until they are out of range.

From: Bou'bound
16-Nov-08
Pat has this down to a science. we can't put what we would do or see where we hunt into his situation. he's hunting a place where he has 7 P&Y in 7 years and if he does not score this trip he may very well go back next month to clean up on the december winter hunt like he did in 06 and 05.

no rush.

From: Davy C
17-Nov-08
Isn't the picture of the buck he saw on day 4 the same as the one on day 3?

From: Horn Donkey
17-Nov-08
I thought the same thing Davy C....

This is always my favorite live hunt of the year. Thanks so much for doing the live hunt Pat, it really makes the experience fun to participate in....

stick a bigun

From: crestedbutte
17-Nov-08
Son of a gun must of gotten one since he hasn't posted his hunt summary yet. Must be gutting him in the dark as I write this? -CB-

From: Northwoods
17-Nov-08
Nice catch Davy C. Its the same deer unless he has an identical twin.

Love this hunt, too bad there aren't more live hunts on bowsite (even though people are trying - I might have to do my part...)

From: Rupe
18-Nov-08
I might have killed that 6 point (8 point with broken brow tines)

That's an ancient deer. Huge bases like that come from age.

I believe that's on older buck that's peaked in antler growth.

From: Jax07
18-Nov-08
both 8 eights (broken tines) would of been a dead deer walking

From: crestedbutte
18-Nov-08
Have you looked at the Cimarron Rivers Outfitters web site? $3,000.00 for a 5-day archery hunt with a $1,000.00 kill fee. $4,000.00 to kill a whitetail buck and that probably doesn't even include your non-resident tag not to mention the food is on your own dime and what it cost's to fly or drive there. So realistically these non-res. are paying around $5,500.00-$6,000.00 when it is all said and done to shoot a 150-170 class buck with the occasional 170-180 class probably being taken. All I got to say is you have to be a complete idiot to pay that kind of money for some horns and say 150 lbs. of meat which at $6,000.00 results in table fare that is $40 per lb. That money would be better spent and do more good if it was given to charity instead of put in an outfitter's pocket who will probably use it to grow his leased land base thus robbing more residents of their traditional hunting grounds. So if your shelling out $6,000.00 would you really kill a 6pt. or an 8 pt. with broken tines? What is sad is the quality of deer Pat is hunting right now isn't much better than what most guys are killing around the state and most are probably doing it with free access or under $500.00. Take a look at the 2008 Kansas harvest thread.

From: Northwoods
18-Nov-08
crestedbutte - Why don't you tell us how you really feel? I'd love to see the size deer you are shooting to get 150 pounds of meat off of them.

As for the money, how is that any different than someone taking a nice vacation to Europe, etc.? Something tells me that you probably can't afford it and that causes your spite for those that can and do. I know I can't afford it, but I'd sure love to hunt there if I could. Doesn't mean I'm going to slam people for spending their money in that way (especially when the person being slammed is the same one who does all the hard work to keep this great site going).

Northwoods

From: Tater
18-Nov-08
crestedbutte = sourgrapes obviously, are we really going to do this again this yr?

From: Bou'bound
18-Nov-08
so crestedbutt - did you ever spend $5,000 on anything other than charity?

From: crestedbutte
19-Nov-08
I can afford it and wouldn't waste it on a single deer hunt...that is for sure! I believe most on here wouldn't either. No offense to Pat (hopefully by now he is getting to do this hunt for free as a result of the continual marketing he is providing this outfitter) and I too appreciate his hard work to keep what I believe is the best bowhunting site on the internet going. Yes, I have spent $5,000 on a few things other than charity and I can tell you it wasn't spent on a deer head that is going to fade and most likely be put in a garage sale by the next generation. To each his own I guess? Good Luck Pat...you're taking it down to the wire! -CB-

From: Bou'bound
19-Nov-08
please share with us what is worth $5,000 to you since you should be setting the standard for the rest of us?

From: travis@work
19-Nov-08
Bucks have really been searching hard the last 3 days here in SC ks...Had anice opp. two nights ago but couldn`t get a clean shot...been a strange rut this year

From: piton
19-Nov-08
Par, it sounds like you're not trying to call the bucks at all, is there a particular reason for that? I sounds like at times some grunting and the can might be productive.

From: piton
19-Nov-08
oops, that should be addressed to Pat, not Par.

From: KSQ2
19-Nov-08
Crestedbutte, FYP

The occasional 150" deer taken, the very, very, very occasional 170-180" deer taken. Protection used to be a good place to hunt... now it's a good place to shoot a deer over a pile of corn. Hop in a paraplane and fly the ten mile radius around Protection, count the corn piles (on outfitter controlled land)... sad.

From: Ron
19-Nov-08
KSQ2, be nice.

From: KSQ2
19-Nov-08
Sorry Ron, this thread fires me up every year. I should just stay away...

From: XMan
19-Nov-08
And your true colors come shining through..... great job Kansas boys, it's so wonderful to read this on the big board and not on your state site. Spend less time worrying about what others have and work harder on what you don't, maybe then you will feel better about yourself.

Get a big one Pat!

From: rupescot
19-Nov-08
I've known Pat for many years and he has worked very hard to get where he is today. I am truely happy for him to be able to live his dream. Keep doing what you are doing Pat. Hope ya were able to get it done today.

Some things in life never come easy and may never come at all, it is up to the individual to see that it all comes full circle.

From: got_elk?
19-Nov-08
Back on topic: I don't like this week to bow hunt just because of what Pat is experiencing. Does anyone agree? Seems the week and a half before this stage is much more productive, and the bucks are moving around more and not so locked up on a particular doe that may be miles from your treestand.

19-Nov-08
"I don't like this week to bow hunt just because of what Pat is experiencing. Does anyone agree? Seems the week and a half before this stage is much more productive, and the bucks are moving around more and not so locked up on a particular doe that may be miles from your treestand."

yep and yep

From: XMan
19-Nov-08
Wow, I would have said the direct opposite of you guys, I think this and next week (baring the full moon) are the weeks to hunt the big boys. They are dumber than stumps and follow a hot doe anywhere. Its there most vulnerable time in my book.

From: HerdManager
19-Nov-08
2nd week is November is when they are out lookin'

From: HerdManager
19-Nov-08
Kind of late, and no post yet....................

From: mjb
19-Nov-08
No deer today...

From: Iowa bound
19-Nov-08
One thing for sure you can't kill em at home. I like the 1st thru the 20th myself.

From: 'Ike'
19-Nov-08
Nada, looks like you'll have to go back for the late hunt Pat...Nice hunt though!

From: VanDam
19-Nov-08
Pat don't let an occasional pilgrim bring you down! You rock so does this site. I hope you you bag whatever your after!

From: Deerman1
19-Nov-08
Here is an idea for ya Pat.

Pay me 1/2 of what you do out here, and I'll put a 150" in front of you in a 5 day hunt, or I'll give you every dime back.

I cannot believe that this outfitter can charge these fees, and not have customers all shooting absolute slammer bucks.

From: bigbuck
20-Nov-08
Thats why they call it "HUNTING"!!!!Thanks Pat, enjoyed the hunt!Looking forward to the next hunt!!

From: travis@work
20-Nov-08
Pat--i do have to disagree with ya on your statement that most of the does hadn`t came into estrous yet...actually at this point most of them have bred and a tale tale sign of this is the does bunching back up with their fawns at their side..bucks are off looking for them last does comming into season or are already hooked up with them...the rut peaked in my area about 3 days ago..But in my area bucks are still searching hard along bedding areas. It`s been a strange rut this year like in some years past the warm weather has moved most of the action to nighttime hours. I didn`t see one mid-day buck this year driving home after work..had it been cold i would have seen several....i`m sure you`ll be back for a late season hunt again...hopefully you`ll get your shot then...This is usually the time I get my buck each year tho cause they starttraveling out of their homerange..15th through the 23rd are always my best days...anywho..best wishes and thanks for sharing your hunt again..see ya in Dec....:)

From: Bou'bound
20-Nov-08
anytime someone has just a 5-6 day window to take an animal with a bow it is a crap shoot. weather, seasonal movement, luck, an errant breeze, other hunting pressure, etc. can push the opportunity to score outside that brief window a NR has on that short hunt. it does not matter if it is deer, moose, elk, bear, caribou, etc. maybe with antelope it is a different game becasue they are pretty much a sure thing on even short bowhunts. Otherwise if it is fair chase it's a crap shoot with a bow.

for guys who can hunt the whole season for a species on their home turf to apply their results to guys who get only 5 days pre-selected months or years in advance is a stretch.

again, with a bow any 5-6 day hunt is almost as much luck as skill.

From: crestedbutte
20-Nov-08
Nice results (2) hunters...(0) bucks...$10,000.00 to 12,000.00 dollars later. Time to start hunting some other state. If you come back to Kansas try some WIHA. It's free and you would probably have the same or atleast slightly better results.

From: Ron
20-Nov-08
It is about time you ate tag soup in Kansas,it does happen :^). I can't speak for deer in other states but in Western Kansas when you start seeing does bunching up they have already been bred. In late Dec you can go a week with out seeing a deer then when you do see one you will see ten or twenty.

From: Northwoods
20-Nov-08
crestedbutte - Seriously, what is your deal? Do you gloat over people who spend that kind of money on a trip to the Carribean and only come home with a tan?

FYI, in the past, Pat has been invited to return in December to fill his tag. Might well happen again.

Northwoods

From: 'Ike'
20-Nov-08
Kind of funny, but he had a number of chances to take real decent bucks...He chose to pass! I don't see how that was a 'bad' hunt or 'bad-luck'...

From: Cassman
20-Nov-08
THat was a great hunt and you have to admire Pat for passing on those nice bucks.Mostof the hunters I know would have been thrilled to shoot a buck like some of the ones he passed on. Pat is a true sportsman bowhunter and I enjoyed reading about the hunt and seeing the excellent pictures.

20-Nov-08
Now we get to enjoy more Kansas hunting through Pat in December! Great hunt Pat. Go back in December and get it done.

From: Ryanw
20-Nov-08
"Nice results (2) hunters...(0) bucks...$10,000.00 to 12,000.00 dollars later. Time to start hunting some other state. If you come back to Kansas try some WIHA. It's free and you would probably have the same or atleast slightly better results." Crestedbutte, why do you have to be such a douchebag, look at his past hunts in Kansas, 6 years 6 trophy bucks. 6 bucks in 7 years worth of hunting is pretty good results if you ask me. Or most hunters.

From: txhunter58
20-Nov-08
Cresstteedd:

I agree, why would a guy who makes his living with a bow website want to go back to a place where he has killed a Pope and Young bucks for 7 years running. Ridiculous!

Anyone out there want to take him hunting every year for seven years running and not get a dime for it if he didn't go 7 years straight? I realize the place he hunted wouldn't make that claim either, but the fact remains that he did.

And to say that he could see the quality he has seen on public land for 7 years straight.......

People spend money every day in amounts that you or I wouldn't. Doesn't make it right or wrong. Is it wrong for a guy to spend lots of money to go hunt Africa? I wouldn't, but it doesn't make it wrong for another to do it.

It is obvious that YOU wouldn't spend that much on a hunt, and that is fine, but you seem to suggest that Pat is wrong/ignorant for hunting there. I suspect that most of the "charities" that you have donated to would suggest that we live by the adage: "judge not less ye be judged"

From: txhunter58
21-Nov-08
"Pay me 1/2 of what you do out here, and I'll put a 150" in front of you in a 5 day hunt, or I'll give you every dime back."

If that is a bonefied offer, I am sure there will be a waiting list: a guaranteed shot at a 150 buck or you pay nothing. I'm in!

From: medicinemann
21-Nov-08
CrestedButte might want to do a little more homework....or check his math. The Cimarron River Outfitters charge less than his estimated prices....even WITH a $1,000.00 trophy fee.

From: Rupe
21-Nov-08
The hunt isn't always about killing and one person's $5K might be another person's $500.

Why does it bother people what another man spends or earns?

It's all relative.

I haven't hunted with my dad for about 5 years now. His health is really bad and he's losing the ability to walk.

I'd pay any sum of money for 5 days of hunting with my dad and brother and I wouldn't care if we didn't shoot anything.

From: Hollywood
21-Nov-08
Way to stick it out Pat!

Passing up bucks is an act to be admired.

A lot of guys can say "trophy hunter" but they can't be a "trophy hunter".

Sorry about your weather.

From: BuckSlayer
21-Nov-08
I thought Pat's decision to raise the bar this year was great! He had shots at deer I wouldn't have passed on, but he has deer of that quality under his belt and was holding out for something different, something more unique. I've been on several long distance hunts this year and have come home empty handed, but had some of the best times i've ever spent hunting. I think Pat really "gets" what hunting is all about. Not always having to bring home the trophy. That is true success in my opinion.

From: GregS
21-Nov-08
Pat, Congratulations on a great hunt! I have nothing but admiration for someone that can pass on a nice buck based on nothing more than a personal goal of getting a bigger buck. I learned years ago, you have to let a few 6pts pass before you get an 8pt. I see no problem with paying an outfitter to ensure you have a quality hunt and opportunity at quality bucks. It does amaze me that anyone could complain about a man that spends his own hard earned money in a way that brings him pleasure. SOMEONE HAS TO STIMULATE OUR ECONOMY!

It would be nice to see you do a hunt that was on Public Hunting Land and see what tips you might have for dealing with pressure presented by frequent and high volume hunting.

From: Scotty
21-Nov-08
ANY deer is a trophy. Passing on a fine buck like that 8 point may mean a preoccupation with size. Like my dad used to say, “The size of the rack doesn’t matter if you are comfortable with the size of your D**k!”

From: Bou'bound
21-Nov-08
that "any deer is a trophy" line is incomplete. it should ready any deer is a trophy that the hunter is willing and happy to take.

if a spike walks by you in alberta on a $5,000 once in a lifetime hunt in the bow zone it ain't no trophy for just about anyone who would find themselves in the stand above it.

by his actions and choices pat apparently did not see any killable trophies on his KS hunt or he would have shot. hats off to him.

From: txhunter58
21-Nov-08
"It would be nice to see you do a hunt that was on Public Hunting Land and see what tips you might have for dealing with pressure presented by frequent and high volume hunting"

Check out his public ground, Colorado elk hunt this september. Although it was a wilderness area, it was a heavily hunted public land hunt.

From: txhunter58
21-Nov-08
"Passing on a fine buck like that 8 point may mean a preoccupation with size"

It could also mean maturing as a hunter. MY DADDY used to say that there are plenty of does for meat, why shoot a smaller buck than you have previously when another year and that same buck would be even bigger.

When you already have lots of big bucks on the wall, it is the HUNT that matters and it isn't worth pulling the trigger unless YOU really want to. Otherwise you get burned out if it is all about killing.

From: 2treestands
21-Nov-08
Lyon county Kansas which is east central , still has alot of fresh does, but the bucks are running less, I see more travel on fencelines and c r p edges, Stay in your tree, it's not even close to done, 2:00 seems to be the magic hour, I 've seen deer all season long between 2 and 3. also liked gregS post on public land, I can tell you that some of the best "very best" hunting in the entire state is walk in ground around reserviores. and they dont get much pressure.

From: travis@work
21-Nov-08
Still sitting on mine...but got the next 10 days off..My cousin shot a big 12 last night following a doe so they haven`t all been bred..:)...usally that is the case in my part of ks tho..they start bunching up after they get bred...nut`n worth argueing over tho..just an observation...I always enjoy watching your hunts Pat and I don`t blame ya one bit for comming to KS to hunt...best wishes...LT

From: Ron
21-Nov-08
Glad to see you have got tough skin Pat. I'm from Kansas and enjoy watching your hunts every year. There is always a little bit of pride that I feel when I watch them. I do think that viewers do need to realize that your hunts at Cimarron are exceptional hunts and not your run of the mill hunts on our public lands.

This year our KDW&P open the gates on NR hunting in Kansas. Just about every NR hunter that applied for a tag got one. Now all we need to do is find enough room for them all to hunt. I went out west this year and hunted public land only to find tree stands placed about 100 yards apart by local outfitters. In the past hunters will usually be polite and move to another area but can understand their bitterness on this practice. One out fitter even told some campers that he was expecting some clients coming in and told them they didn't really want them camping in a public camp ground.

Perhaps with our new goverment and the spread of wealth, next year we all can afford to hunt Cimarron but as you showed us even that is not a sure thing. Do think you should take a little time out to show some pictures of our big ball of string we got here. If you do go out in Dec. take some warm mittens :^).

From: Northwoods
21-Nov-08
Scotty -

I'm curious, what does passing on a buck have to do with the size of ones gentalia?

Or was your dad referring to the size of a woman's rack, and not a deer....

As to all deer are trophies, are you one of those people that thinks every participant in a sporting event should get a trophy?

Personally, I think all deer are a great accomplishment, but I don't think they are all "trophies".

From: Pain - M
21-Nov-08
Buckslayer said, "I think Pat really "gets" what hunting is all about."

What would that be? Hunting stand setups that someone else placed with corn scattered all over the ground under them? IMO, that AIN'T what hunting is all about.

I sure don't begrudge Pat because he has the money (or trades hunts out for advertising) to be able to go on all these hunts. I mean, he went toe to toe with a friggin' grizzly and a stickbow. That, IMO, IS what hunting is all about. Show us some more public land hunts where you do all the homework, thats what a lot of us want to see.

From: LW
21-Nov-08
I don't know Pat, but I am impressed with his candidness. How many of us would lay it all out and be willing to suffer any criticism.

Pain makes good points, but I'm one of the KS residents who does not have a problem with NRs coming to our state. I am a NR hunter in other states and love the opportunity to experience different hunts. I also think that while some of the complaints our boys make are legitimate, too many are just looking for an excuse for their own shortcomings. I spend as much time off season securing and improving my hunt properties as I actually do hunting them.

Spreading corn around to attract does is probably not much different than the food plots I plant to attract does to my property. I never hunt over the plots, but that is my definition of fair chase. That definition has evolved over the years, and might not be hard and fast with every property I hunt when considering a multitude of variables including time.

I appreciate Pat sharing this with us. Watching hunts taking place with someone you kind of know is much better than the videos or articles by people I will never meet.

I'm not saying I'm right, just I'm right for me! Thanks!

From: Camo3415
21-Nov-08
preach on brother Pain-M, Amen!!!

From: kenn1320
21-Nov-08
Thanks for sharing Pat, I enjoyed the updates. I hunted KS for the first time this year, nothing for me either. I passed on 4 bucks, but none were as big as the ones you passed up. Keep doing what your doing! Ken

From: Pain - M
21-Nov-08
Frank, surely you can't say that hunting over a foodplot or an ag field, or even an oak tree, is the same as hunting over a bait pile within bow range of your stand without cracking a smile. I know you, man...come on? I know guys that believe that BS....but I ain't buyin' it. I won't teach my kids to hunt that way, either.

I could care less if NR's come hunt KS...I've hunted out of state before, probably will again. But don't piss on my boot's and tell me it's rainin'!

From: LW
21-Nov-08
Yeah, you caught me:) I used to use feeders in the past, especially when I was new. It was too easy for does, until they were educated. Mature bucks are different though-and you know that as well as anyone. The guys that give others a hard time for this type of hunt are exaggerating how easy it is.

I sure would like to have the ability to have someone put me on an elk though.

That's what is great about this site-I think it elevates our standards.

OK, your boots are dry now:)

From: ICT-Bowman
21-Nov-08
Dear Pat,

I am a Kansas resident bowhunter and had met you at a Pope and Young banquet a few years ago. You problably don't remember me but I was the person with the homemade rattlesnake belt. We talked about me making a mamba belt out of your snake but you never got it back from africa.

I must apologize for some of the comments made by my fellow Kansas residents. It truly is hypocracy at its worst. Every resident bowhunter I know uses corn which is legal and I believe more ethical because it can give you a few extra seconds to make a clean shot. One of the guys who is going crazy over your baiting just got back from texas where he hunted over a feeder. He knows who he is and so do I.

I also lease my own hunting grounds. Paying for a lease drives my buddies crazy but it never seemed fair for me to whine about leasing like I am owed everything for free. Farmers have a right to make money any way they can. Who am I to try to deny them some additional revenue. I would be lying to tell you I don't miss the good old days. But they are gone and I have adapted. I was never real good at throwing tantrums anyway.

Like the feller above, every year I cringe during this hunt. But not because I am upset about your hunt. It's because we Kansas boys must look like a bunch of spoiled and snibbling children. I just wanted you to know that we are not all like Pain M above, or crestedbutte. Many of us are still polite and are respectful to quality visitors like yourself.

Hope you come back and kill a booner.

From: Scotty
21-Nov-08
Northwoods, et al,

Nope, I’m definitely NOT one of those who think that everyone who competes should get a trophy. I’ve got over 150 trophies in Martial Arts competitions that I earned the hard way to prove it. I’ve got the X-Rays and aches and pains to prove that I earned them as well. But we’re not talking about that kind of trophy are we? There are several different definitions of what “Trophy” means in my dictionary and mounted fish or animals are listed in a category that is completely separate from sporting trophies. Bowhunting was never meant to be a competition or a “sport”!!!!

As to your first question, read the works of Sigmund Freud.

From: Pain - M
21-Nov-08
A spoiled, sniveling child? That's rich, right there ICT Bowman...EVERYTHING I have, I've earned!

I've lost land to lease, sale, other guy's I've hunted with have ruined our rights to access by acting like idiot's, and I move on and find someplace else to hunt. I'll never pay for a place to hunt, unless I'm making payments on land that I own or have to have a guide by law to hunt a particular species. I hunted over bait when I first started hunting and it was too easy. After all, we are hunting a prey that has no ability to reason or think of anything other than eat, poop, evade danger and breed.

My original post was directed at a comment of someone other than Pat. I've never met the man, but I have been on the site for 9 years, and when he first started showing his hunts, I admired what he got to do. When he started showing his KS hunts, I thought that was great, until he admitted that they were baiting, then I thought he was just another shooter. I'm sure he's worked hard to get where he's at, but hunting an animal on it's own terms, it's own feeding patterns in natural conditions that exist is one thing, and hunting over bait stations is another.

The Xbox generation of selfish, greedy, gotta have it now people are what's going to ruin hunting, not the anti's. Hunting is not, and has never been a sport...it's a passtime that's meant to be enjoyed by everyone, not just those that can afford it. These aren't the King's deer, they're everyone's.

Spoiled and sniveling, or was it snibbling?....that is for to laugh!!!!

From: Hollywood
21-Nov-08
"Hunting is not, and has never been a sport...it's a passtime that's meant to be enjoyed by everyone, not just those that can afford it. These aren't the King's deer, they're everyone's."

Thanks for chiming in Che Guevara. But if that were true, there would be no hunting. We're the minority, Captain Obvious!!!! Useless infighting like this will be our downfall, not the X-box generation.

From: crestedbutte
22-Nov-08
Medicinemann the Cimarron River outfitter link I click on shows $3,000 for a 5-day archery hunt w/ a $1,000 kill fee....that equals $4,000 are you still with me? The non-resident archery tag is $344. It probably cost the non-res. around $500.00 round trip ($1,000 total) to fly from back east to Wichita or even KC. ...now we are at $5,344...still with me? My guess is he probably also had to rent a car for the 5-days to get him from the airport to the Outfitter...we'll say for $250.00 plus the $150.00 in gas he probably spent driving back and forth. Now we are at $5,744. The Outfitter's web site also states that they have a kitchen that clients can use to cook their "own food" or they can eat their meals in the nearby town...so the non-res. has to buy some groceries right? So he stops at a Wal-Mart Supercenter on the fly and probably spends $80-$100 for his 5-days worth of food (brkfst., lunch & dinner) so we'll average it out to $90 for groceries but he probably also treats himself to a steak dinner atleast one evening in town at $30. So our grand total for the non-res. is $5,864 to kill a KS buck. So how was my math way off base when I figured in an earlier post that these non-res. pay $5,500-$6,000 to hunt with this Outitter? I guess your right it was a little off because as we know now...no $1,000 kill fee had to be paid! TxHunter, I am not suggesting that the non-res. is wrong/ignorant for hunting there...just wrong/ignorant for paying that kind of money to hunt "there." ICT-Bowman "the snake charmer", You can keep your apologies to yourself. You and the outfitter's lease land not becuase you can afford it but because you are greedy and our state wide buck to doe ratio will eventually suffer because of it if not already. I want to thank the numerous guys who PM'd me in support of my opinion on the Outfitters, land leasers, and non-res. that contribute to the prostitution of Kansas wildlife. On that note I will share a portion of one of the PM's sent my way..."This Kansas Live Hunt" is like going to a whorehouse and braggin to your buddies about the good lookin' gal you hooked up with." That sums it up perfectly. Here is hoping that next year about this time we see "Live Hunt Trophy Whitetails from Iowa, Illinois, Ohio...maybe even public land and no bait piles. -CB-

From: JGG
22-Nov-08
Sticking with the Kansas theme here. You've all seen the Wizard of Oz..Just don't look behind the curtain: the corn piles,"friendships" based on the dollar and all your scouting done..No,just look at my "trophies"; "I am the great and powerful OZ." So,Crestedbutte click your heels together and come up to Salina, we'll do it our way, the right way.

From: Deerman1
22-Nov-08
My offer to Pat still stands. A opportunity at a 150" in a 5 day hunt, or he pays nothing except his tag fees!

From: LW
22-Nov-08
Ken and the others,

You admitted like me you have used feeders in the past. Maybe Pat's home state is much different therfore his conclusion about their use is different than yours. I agree with what many of you KS guys are saying, up to a point. I have only been on the site for 2 years as a poster. During that entire time there has been nothing but complaining about NRs, outfitters, baiting, Hayden etc. ruining the resource in KS. Yet, if folks here would go to the KS site and read all of the 'Harvest Threads' they would quickly realize we have had probably one of our best years ever. Sure, there are a lot of variables like more guys with digital cameras, more guys sharing, etc... but that is helping the herd structure more. Guys are now more aware of the potential out there and are holding back from shooting an average buck-just like Pat did.

So we collected close to $5K by someone's estimate above. This went into the local economy and Pat did not take a deer. He helped other potential NRs see that holding out is OK. How is all of this bad for KS? Is it really the resource we are trying to protect, or is it really about our own hunting opportunities. It is the United States of America, not the People's Republic of Kansas.

I also think the guys that do most of the attacking do not represent the KS friendliness that people come to expect. Yes, I will receive numerous PMs supporting my position also.

Maybe Pat can find a compromise and have his hunt there next year and enjoy the friendships at the same time change his willingness to hunt over bait. I know when I went to hunt elk in CO, I didn't start at ground zero as I knew nothing about the land, the animal (other than what I read, viewed at RMNP and on videos.). I asked for advice and paid to lease land on a very large private ranch that butted up to public ground.

Pat, thanks for spending your money here. We need more like you. And thanks for holding out!

From: txhunter58
22-Nov-08
"I'll never pay for a place to hunt, unless I'm making payments on land that I own or have to have a guide by law to hunt a particular species."

Good for you, to each his own. What you are implying though is that others are wrong for doing so and landowners are wrong for charging. As a landowner, I see fragmentation of ranches every day and the continual loss of good wildlife habitat. If it weren't for lease money, more ranches would already be subdivisions. That is not my opninion, that is a fact! That is the reality of what landowners face every day. We have to figure out a way to make the land pay for itself and wildlife leases are helping us do that. I assume that you still believe in personal property rights? Or is it ok if I want to come BBQ in your front yard to enjoy the view, the birds in your trees,..... Your are right, I don't own the wildlife on my property (and they are free to jump the low fences and leave), but I do have the right to charge people to come on my property, stay in my cabin, BBQ under the stars where you can't even hear any road noise, and yes, get to hunt.

But I also take plenty of friends free, and every year we take kids that have never hunted before and help them get a deer (free). So I think we have a good balance. So maybe some people might think what I do is ok, but what these outfitters are doing is not? Well that is kind of like saying we are going to outlaw "assualt rifles" or "cop killer bullets" That is a slippery slope I don't want to go down.

And crested: I assume you are not against nonresidents hunting in Kansas at all? Then the "other" charges you list (travel, license, etc.) are fixed charges that anyone will pay, so you can't include them in the cost of the outfitter. Food espeically. I eat as cheap when I hunt as I do at home, so food is not even an added expense of a hunt.

And you also state: "TxHunter, I am not suggesting that the non-res. is wrong/ignorant for hunting there...just wrong/ignorant for paying that kind of money to hunt "there." Either way, it is judging how other people spend money. Have you ever eaten out? I am sure there are people who feel that you should save that money and give to charity as well.....

It is also one of my pet peeves that the internet allows people to say what they want about other people that they would never say to their face. I doubt you would ever accuse Pat of being a John visiting a whorehouse to his face, but that is what you just did.

I do probably agree with you on one thing though, charging a trophy or "kill" fee is wrong and in my book probably illegal. After all, it is illegal to "sell" wildlife, and when you charge and extra fee when you kill a public deer, that is in fact, selling wildlife.

As far as the corn, get organized and get it outlawed if you feel strongly about it.

From: Samson2
22-Nov-08
The funniest thing about this is Pat said that he didn't use bait last year when he killed his biggest buck ever in Kansas. A question to Pain M and the other selfish Kansas babies - how can such a crappy bowhunter have pulled that off?

You guys are a turn off. We welcome our nonresidents up here in Alberta. They bring money to our small towns and most of them are good people. If you want to play you have to pay. You guys just want huge deer everywhere and you want it all free. F the landowners who can make a small chunk of cash from leasing, your needs are more important right? Your pathetic.

Here's a newsflash for you. Where legal these hunters have hunted bait for deer too. Gene and Barry Wensel, Chuck Adams, MR James, Dave Samuel, Dwight Schuh, Myles Keller, Waddell, Fred Eichler, and probably 95% of all Kansas residents and 100% of Texans. Maybe someday they can reach your level of competence. LOL!!!!!!!

I hunt with a longbow. So am I a better hunter than guys like Pain M who need training wheels to kill something?????? If that sounds stupid your right. It is. Get over yourselves.

From: LW
22-Nov-08
Ken and the others,

You admitted like me you have used feeders in the past. Maybe Pat's home state is much different therfore his conclusion about their use is different than yours. I agree with what many of you KS guys are saying, up to a point. I have only been on the site for 2 years as a poster. During that entire time there has been nothing but complaining about NRs, outfitters, baiting, Hayden etc. ruining the resource in KS. Yet, if folks here would go to the KS site and read all of the 'Harvest Threads' they would quickly realize we have had probably one of our best years ever. Sure, there are a lot of variables like more guys with digital cameras, more guys sharing, etc... but that is helping the herd structure more. Guys are now more aware of the potential out there and are holding back from shooting an average buck-just like Pat did.

So we collected close to $5K by someone's estimate above. This went into the local economy and Pat did not take a deer. He helped other potential NRs see that holding out is OK. How is all of this bad for KS? Is it really the resource we are trying to protect, or is it really about our own hunting opportunities. It is the United States of America, not the People's Republic of Kansas.

I also think the guys that do most of the attacking do not represent the KS friendliness that people come to expect. Yes, I will receive numerous PMs supporting my position also.

Maybe Pat can find a compromise and have his hunt there next year and enjoy the friendships at the same time change his willingness to hunt over bait. I know when I went to hunt elk in CO, I didn't start at ground zero as I knew nothing about the land, the animal (other than what I read, viewed at RMNP and on videos.). I asked for advice and paid to lease land on a very large private ranch that butted up to public ground.

Pat, thanks for spending your money here. We need more like you. And thanks for holding out!

From: ICT-Bowman
22-Nov-08
TXhunter58, residents don't want to outlaw baiting for themselves, just for everyone else :)

Samson, I didn't realize Pat didn't bait last year so I just watched the video. You're right. I wonder if my fellow Kansans throwing fits will give him credit for that? Probably not since it basically throws their argument out the window.

Our disaffected Kansas hunters don't speak for me. I am a strong proponent of our free enterprise system, private land rights, and a man's ability to become rich and successful and spend his cash anyway he chooses. It's not my fault someone may live in a trailer while others become successful. Reminds me of the class warfare bullshit we're seeing now with Obama, Pelosi and Reid.

It's a sad day when someonw like Pain M, who tortures us with his "look at me" videos on this very website turns around and acts so disrespectful to the people who graciously gave him this platform for free. We don't have much respect for classless people like that around here. I don't know how Pat tolerates it but he's certainly got more character then any of them.

From: LW
22-Nov-08
Bowman,

I know Pain personally. While he is never shy to voice his opinions, he is a respectful person who gives back to our passion. I have taught HE classes with him.

If you believe in all of the things you stated above, you should have more of a problem with an individual who would kick someone off the site just for expressing their viewpoint that happens to not agree with the owner of the site.

Many of the guys from KS who do not appreciate what has happened here are stand-up guys whose life style might just surprise you. Implying they are trailer residents or worse was not cool. I don't agree with many of them, but have tried to not lower myself to personal attacks. I limit my harsh criticism to their comments.

That being said, I appreciate your willingness to stand up publically for many of the same things I do. Thank you!

From: txhunter58
22-Nov-08
One possible thought for next year, consider making this thread "positive only".

Don't get me wrong, I like these kind of discussions and think they should continue, but you can start another thread for that.

Having such a disagreement on this thread is kind of like inviting a girl to the dance and calling her a whore while you are dancing.......

From: LW
22-Nov-08
Way to go Pat! Please cut and paste this to the KS forum! Not that I agree with everything you said, but I certainly agree with you saying it!

Most KS guys probably agree with you, but they don't participate much any more. Hopefully things like this will bring some of them back.

From: Kicker Point
22-Nov-08
Pat, Well said. I respect your explanation and appreciate your way of addressing us Kansas guys.

I really enjoyed watching your hunt play out and appreciated your keeping with a management standard you made for yourself.

I love this site and have learned TONS reading it. Thanks.

From: GregS
22-Nov-08
Pat, this is the best bowsite that I have found online by far. It is the only one that I keep coming back to. Your interactives, videos and your Kansas hunt are always highlights. I agree with Kicker 100%! Looking forward to your next hunt.

From: Pain - M
22-Nov-08
Read what I originally posted...IMO means In My Opinion! Since everyone here is entitled to their own opinion, I offered mine. I don't hunt over bait anymore, I did when I first started a few times, hog hunted in Texas once, where it's the norm, and it didn't do anything for me...meaning, it didn't make me feel like I was much of a hunter, shooting a dumb critter over an artificial food source.

For someone to tell me what I'm implying is ridiculous. Landowners can do what they please with their property, people can hunt however they please if it's legal. Doesn't mean I have to hunt that way, or think that they're the great white hunter. If you don't like being tortured by my video's, don't read my blog. Nobody is holding a gun to your head making you, are they?

I'm not going to apologize for stating an opinion. I would like to thank Pat for the forum he gives us. I've learned a lot on here and met some great folks, too.

Pat, I never meant any disrespect to you personally, my original comment was directed at someone else's post about what hunting was all about. If you make it back in December, give me a shout. I'll buy you a beer to wash down some of the venom.

From: Iowa bound
23-Nov-08
Well written Pat,

When I get my farm in Iowa you will be more than welcomed, any time. Maybe we'll even do a live hunt. Hope ya get back to Kansas in December and bring home your biggest to date. And for the guys who really don't know Pat, you'd be embarrassed of some of the things you wrote once you got to know him, IMO.

Scott

From: XMan
23-Nov-08
Its good to read Pat's post in on open forum to the KS folks. As you guys know, the serenity of a KS hunt is priceless. To hunt mature whitetails without horns blasting, people snickering, and acting like a commando to hide your presence is the holy grail for us NorthEastern hunters. I understand why you guys are po'd at all the changes, I wouldn't want things to change either with the hunting you currently have in KS. NR's are not going away, its time we all band together as bowhunters who share the greatest passion.

XMan

From: medicinemann
23-Nov-08
Crested Butte,

Apparently, I do NOT follow you, but rather than post it on the forum, I sent my observations to you, via PM.

Pat,

I think that I agree with txhunter58, if you should decide to post this thread again next year......

From: crestedbutte
23-Nov-08
Medicinemann...sent you a reply.

From: heartshot
24-Nov-08
Pat your big problem is that you didnt ask anyone on the Kansas site to come to their state and hunt their deer. I would have made you an HONORARY RESIDENT (if you qualified of course) and then you get no venom....only ignored.....even by others that share the same distinction.

From: XMan
25-Nov-08
Heartshot, now that is stating the bold truth.....LOL

From: Cassman
30-Nov-08
PAT, I was impressed with the different camo outfits that you have used over the years on your Kansas deer hunts.

From: Genesis
30-Nov-08
I would suggest Pat take Deerman 1 up on his offer!

Then fly to Wichita from there..:)

From: Ron
30-Nov-08
His offer would be pretty good but what he fails to tell you is that it would take 3 to 4 years to get an IA. tag..

From: BuckSlayer
30-Nov-08
Pain-M, since its my post you're referring to, I'll weigh in here once more. You'll notice I never mentioned anything about baiting in my post. I was only trying to defend Pat's decision to pass on what some would consider very worthy bucks, by raising his personal standard for his Live Hunt. And having read all of Pat's Live and Semi-Live hunts from the past... I know him to be a guy who won't lower his standards to take a trophy. Does he "get it"? Hell yea he does.

From: LW
30-Nov-08
Ron,

I think Steve is politely stating anyone that can guarantee a 150" is, well, a person qualified to write childrens' books where an imagination or ability to exagerate is helpful. :)

From: Genesis
30-Nov-08
I beleive in Kolin,I just think that at worst he doesn't have alot to lose.:)

I suggest Kolin have to pay a "non-trophy" fee of $1,000 if Pat isn't successful,just so Pat knows his guide will have incentive to give effort :).....St.Jude would be a worthy cause :)

On a serious note....Pat,thanks for giving.St.Jude touches so many lives and some very close friends lives as well......

From: Pain - M
30-Nov-08
Buckslayer, a lot of us pass on what we consider inferior bucks...doesn't make us any better than the next guy.

I should've kept my trap shut, honestly...better to be quiet and thought an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. ;^)

BTW, I'd have hammered the big ol' 8pt, busted brow tines and all.

From: BuckSlayer
30-Nov-08
So would I. Wouldn't have hesitated for a second! lol

From: Mint
01-Dec-08
Well said Pat. I was hunting Kansas the week of the 19th not far from where you were with a different outfitter. The hunt cost aboutthe same and it wasa lot for me to pay for a whitetail hunt and i was a little apprehensive to say the least. What i received for my money was some of the most amazing hunting days I have ever had. It was great to see unpressured big whitetails interacting and going through the rut. These deer didn't have a clue I was there and i really enjoyed watching them everyday. I let numerous 120 class deer pass and rattled in my first bucks ever. It was great and i loved every minute of it. On my second to last day i took a old fighter buck that had broken off a couple of his points and I was thrilled. I am so jealous of Kansas hunters for be able to hunt deer that don't look up while they walk through the woods, don't get spooked into the next county by a little noise or scent and aren't nocturnal except for a couple of days during the rut, maybe.

From: Deerman1
01-Dec-08
Genesis,

Quit spending my wifes money will ya.... ;-)

Maybe I've missed my calling as a childrens books author..........maybe I shouldve paid more attention to my english teachers in highschool.

From: Cassman
02-Dec-08
Mint, Who did you hunt with in Kansas the week of the 19th?

From: Genesis
02-Dec-08
Keep her working Kolin,so you can continue to have many more years like you had this year!:)

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