Bowsite.com

Passing on that 8 was a good move.

Good luck with him. It is hard to settle for a lesser buck after seeing a giant like that.

Lonnie, Got the PM I'll be emailing you later

Shoot that sucka....

I wouldn't hold out for just one deer. I have been hunting a 220 class whitetail for the last couple of years and have passed on way to many 160 for a shot at him. I've had enough of tag soup, this year if a 160 walks by me he will be going down. The chance of that buck giving you a shot is very slim. Good luck.

Either way, it'll be worth it and it'll leave a 140 for someone who may have never taken one.

JMHO.

He's in a great area, with guides who know their stuff very well.

no rush.

This is always my favorite live hunt of the year. Thanks so much for doing the live hunt Pat, it really makes the experience fun to participate in....

stick a bigun

Love this hunt, too bad there aren't more live hunts on bowsite (even though people are trying - I might have to do my part...)

That's an ancient deer. Huge bases like that come from age.

I believe that's on older buck that's peaked in antler growth.

As for the money, how is that any different than someone taking a nice vacation to Europe, etc.? Something tells me that you probably can't afford it and that causes your spite for those that can and do. I know I can't afford it, but I'd sure love to hunt there if I could. Doesn't mean I'm going to slam people for spending their money in that way (especially when the person being slammed is the same one who does all the hard work to keep this great site going).

Northwoods

The occasional 150" deer taken, the very, very, very occasional 170-180" deer taken. Protection used to be a good place to hunt... now it's a good place to shoot a deer over a pile of corn. Hop in a paraplane and fly the ten mile radius around Protection, count the corn piles (on outfitter controlled land)... sad.

Get a big one Pat!

Some things in life never come easy and may never come at all, it is up to the individual to see that it all comes full circle.

yep and yep

Pay me 1/2 of what you do out here, and I'll put a 150" in front of you in a 5 day hunt, or I'll give you every dime back.

I cannot believe that this outfitter can charge these fees, and not have customers all shooting absolute slammer bucks.

for guys who can hunt the whole season for a species on their home turf to apply their results to guys who get only 5 days pre-selected months or years in advance is a stretch.

again, with a bow any 5-6 day hunt is almost as much luck as skill.

FYI, in the past, Pat has been invited to return in December to fill his tag. Might well happen again.

Northwoods

I agree, why would a guy who makes his living with a bow website want to go back to a place where he has killed a Pope and Young bucks for 7 years running. Ridiculous!

Anyone out there want to take him hunting every year for seven years running and not get a dime for it if he didn't go 7 years straight? I realize the place he hunted wouldn't make that claim either, but the fact remains that he did.

And to say that he could see the quality he has seen on public land for 7 years straight.......

People spend money every day in amounts that you or I wouldn't. Doesn't make it right or wrong. Is it wrong for a guy to spend lots of money to go hunt Africa? I wouldn't, but it doesn't make it wrong for another to do it.

It is obvious that YOU wouldn't spend that much on a hunt, and that is fine, but you seem to suggest that Pat is wrong/ignorant for hunting there. I suspect that most of the "charities" that you have donated to would suggest that we live by the adage: "judge not less ye be judged"

If that is a bonefied offer, I am sure there will be a waiting list: a guaranteed shot at a 150 buck or you pay nothing. I'm in!

Why does it bother people what another man spends or earns?

It's all relative.

I haven't hunted with my dad for about 5 years now. His health is really bad and he's losing the ability to walk.

I'd pay any sum of money for 5 days of hunting with my dad and brother and I wouldn't care if we didn't shoot anything.

Passing up bucks is an act to be admired.

A lot of guys can say "trophy hunter" but they can't be a "trophy hunter".

Sorry about your weather.

It would be nice to see you do a hunt that was on Public Hunting Land and see what tips you might have for dealing with pressure presented by frequent and high volume hunting.

if a spike walks by you in alberta on a $5,000 once in a lifetime hunt in the bow zone it ain't no trophy for just about anyone who would find themselves in the stand above it.

by his actions and choices pat apparently did not see any killable trophies on his KS hunt or he would have shot. hats off to him.

Check out his public ground, Colorado elk hunt this september. Although it was a wilderness area, it was a heavily hunted public land hunt.

It could also mean maturing as a hunter. MY DADDY used to say that there are plenty of does for meat, why shoot a smaller buck than you have previously when another year and that same buck would be even bigger.

When you already have lots of big bucks on the wall, it is the HUNT that matters and it isn't worth pulling the trigger unless YOU really want to. Otherwise you get burned out if it is all about killing.

This year our KDW&P open the gates on NR hunting in Kansas. Just about every NR hunter that applied for a tag got one. Now all we need to do is find enough room for them all to hunt. I went out west this year and hunted public land only to find tree stands placed about 100 yards apart by local outfitters. In the past hunters will usually be polite and move to another area but can understand their bitterness on this practice. One out fitter even told some campers that he was expecting some clients coming in and told them they didn't really want them camping in a public camp ground.

Perhaps with our new goverment and the spread of wealth, next year we all can afford to hunt Cimarron but as you showed us even that is not a sure thing. Do think you should take a little time out to show some pictures of our big ball of string we got here. If you do go out in Dec. take some warm mittens :^).

I'm curious, what does passing on a buck have to do with the size of ones gentalia?

Or was your dad referring to the size of a woman's rack, and not a deer....

As to all deer are trophies, are you one of those people that thinks every participant in a sporting event should get a trophy?

Personally, I think all deer are a great accomplishment, but I don't think they are all "trophies".

What would that be? Hunting stand setups that someone else placed with corn scattered all over the ground under them? IMO, that AIN'T what hunting is all about.

I sure don't begrudge Pat because he has the money (or trades hunts out for advertising) to be able to go on all these hunts. I mean, he went toe to toe with a friggin' grizzly and a stickbow. That, IMO, IS what hunting is all about. Show us some more public land hunts where you do all the homework, thats what a lot of us want to see.

Pain makes good points, but I'm one of the KS residents who does not have a problem with NRs coming to our state. I am a NR hunter in other states and love the opportunity to experience different hunts. I also think that while some of the complaints our boys make are legitimate, too many are just looking for an excuse for their own shortcomings. I spend as much time off season securing and improving my hunt properties as I actually do hunting them.

Spreading corn around to attract does is probably not much different than the food plots I plant to attract does to my property. I never hunt over the plots, but that is my definition of fair chase. That definition has evolved over the years, and might not be hard and fast with every property I hunt when considering a multitude of variables including time.

I appreciate Pat sharing this with us. Watching hunts taking place with someone you kind of know is much better than the videos or articles by people I will never meet.

I'm not saying I'm right, just I'm right for me! Thanks!

I could care less if NR's come hunt KS...I've hunted out of state before, probably will again. But don't piss on my boot's and tell me it's rainin'!

I sure would like to have the ability to have someone put me on an elk though.

That's what is great about this site-I think it elevates our standards.

OK, your boots are dry now:)

I am a Kansas resident bowhunter and had met you at a Pope and Young banquet a few years ago. You problably don't remember me but I was the person with the homemade rattlesnake belt. We talked about me making a mamba belt out of your snake but you never got it back from africa.

I must apologize for some of the comments made by my fellow Kansas residents. It truly is hypocracy at its worst. Every resident bowhunter I know uses corn which is legal and I believe more ethical because it can give you a few extra seconds to make a clean shot. One of the guys who is going crazy over your baiting just got back from texas where he hunted over a feeder. He knows who he is and so do I.

I also lease my own hunting grounds. Paying for a lease drives my buddies crazy but it never seemed fair for me to whine about leasing like I am owed everything for free. Farmers have a right to make money any way they can. Who am I to try to deny them some additional revenue. I would be lying to tell you I don't miss the good old days. But they are gone and I have adapted. I was never real good at throwing tantrums anyway.

Like the feller above, every year I cringe during this hunt. But not because I am upset about your hunt. It's because we Kansas boys must look like a bunch of spoiled and snibbling children. I just wanted you to know that we are not all like Pain M above, or crestedbutte. Many of us are still polite and are respectful to quality visitors like yourself.

Hope you come back and kill a booner.

Nope, I’m definitely NOT one of those who think that everyone who competes should get a trophy. I’ve got over 150 trophies in Martial Arts competitions that I earned the hard way to prove it. I’ve got the X-Rays and aches and pains to prove that I earned them as well. But we’re not talking about that kind of trophy are we? There are several different definitions of what “Trophy” means in my dictionary and mounted fish or animals are listed in a category that is completely separate from sporting trophies. Bowhunting was never meant to be a competition or a “sport”!!!!

As to your first question, read the works of Sigmund Freud.

I've lost land to lease, sale, other guy's I've hunted with have ruined our rights to access by acting like idiot's, and I move on and find someplace else to hunt. I'll never pay for a place to hunt, unless I'm making payments on land that I own or have to have a guide by law to hunt a particular species. I hunted over bait when I first started hunting and it was too easy. After all, we are hunting a prey that has no ability to reason or think of anything other than eat, poop, evade danger and breed.

My original post was directed at a comment of someone other than Pat. I've never met the man, but I have been on the site for 9 years, and when he first started showing his hunts, I admired what he got to do. When he started showing his KS hunts, I thought that was great, until he admitted that they were baiting, then I thought he was just another shooter. I'm sure he's worked hard to get where he's at, but hunting an animal on it's own terms, it's own feeding patterns in natural conditions that exist is one thing, and hunting over bait stations is another.

The Xbox generation of selfish, greedy, gotta have it now people are what's going to ruin hunting, not the anti's. Hunting is not, and has never been a sport...it's a passtime that's meant to be enjoyed by everyone, not just those that can afford it. These aren't the King's deer, they're everyone's.

Spoiled and sniveling, or was it snibbling?....that is for to laugh!!!!

Thanks for chiming in Che Guevara. But if that were true, there would be no hunting. We're the minority, Captain Obvious!!!! Useless infighting like this will be our downfall, not the X-box generation.

You admitted like me you have used feeders in the past. Maybe Pat's home state is much different therfore his conclusion about their use is different than yours. I agree with what many of you KS guys are saying, up to a point. I have only been on the site for 2 years as a poster. During that entire time there has been nothing but complaining about NRs, outfitters, baiting, Hayden etc. ruining the resource in KS. Yet, if folks here would go to the KS site and read all of the 'Harvest Threads' they would quickly realize we have had probably one of our best years ever. Sure, there are a lot of variables like more guys with digital cameras, more guys sharing, etc... but that is helping the herd structure more. Guys are now more aware of the potential out there and are holding back from shooting an average buck-just like Pat did.

So we collected close to $5K by someone's estimate above. This went into the local economy and Pat did not take a deer. He helped other potential NRs see that holding out is OK. How is all of this bad for KS? Is it really the resource we are trying to protect, or is it really about our own hunting opportunities. It is the United States of America, not the People's Republic of Kansas.

I also think the guys that do most of the attacking do not represent the KS friendliness that people come to expect. Yes, I will receive numerous PMs supporting my position also.

Maybe Pat can find a compromise and have his hunt there next year and enjoy the friendships at the same time change his willingness to hunt over bait. I know when I went to hunt elk in CO, I didn't start at ground zero as I knew nothing about the land, the animal (other than what I read, viewed at RMNP and on videos.). I asked for advice and paid to lease land on a very large private ranch that butted up to public ground.

Pat, thanks for spending your money here. We need more like you. And thanks for holding out!

Good for you, to each his own. What you are implying though is that others are wrong for doing so and landowners are wrong for charging. As a landowner, I see fragmentation of ranches every day and the continual loss of good wildlife habitat. If it weren't for lease money, more ranches would already be subdivisions. That is not my opninion, that is a fact! That is the reality of what landowners face every day. We have to figure out a way to make the land pay for itself and wildlife leases are helping us do that. I assume that you still believe in personal property rights? Or is it ok if I want to come BBQ in your front yard to enjoy the view, the birds in your trees,..... Your are right, I don't own the wildlife on my property (and they are free to jump the low fences and leave), but I do have the right to charge people to come on my property, stay in my cabin, BBQ under the stars where you can't even hear any road noise, and yes, get to hunt.

But I also take plenty of friends free, and every year we take kids that have never hunted before and help them get a deer (free). So I think we have a good balance. So maybe some people might think what I do is ok, but what these outfitters are doing is not? Well that is kind of like saying we are going to outlaw "assualt rifles" or "cop killer bullets" That is a slippery slope I don't want to go down.

And crested: I assume you are not against nonresidents hunting in Kansas at all? Then the "other" charges you list (travel, license, etc.) are fixed charges that anyone will pay, so you can't include them in the cost of the outfitter. Food espeically. I eat as cheap when I hunt as I do at home, so food is not even an added expense of a hunt.

And you also state: "TxHunter, I am not suggesting that the non-res. is wrong/ignorant for hunting there...just wrong/ignorant for paying that kind of money to hunt "there." Either way, it is judging how other people spend money. Have you ever eaten out? I am sure there are people who feel that you should save that money and give to charity as well.....

It is also one of my pet peeves that the internet allows people to say what they want about other people that they would never say to their face. I doubt you would ever accuse Pat of being a John visiting a whorehouse to his face, but that is what you just did.

I do probably agree with you on one thing though, charging a trophy or "kill" fee is wrong and in my book probably illegal. After all, it is illegal to "sell" wildlife, and when you charge and extra fee when you kill a public deer, that is in fact, selling wildlife.

As far as the corn, get organized and get it outlawed if you feel strongly about it.

You guys are a turn off. We welcome our nonresidents up here in Alberta. They bring money to our small towns and most of them are good people. If you want to play you have to pay. You guys just want huge deer everywhere and you want it all free. F the landowners who can make a small chunk of cash from leasing, your needs are more important right? Your pathetic.

Here's a newsflash for you. Where legal these hunters have hunted bait for deer too. Gene and Barry Wensel, Chuck Adams, MR James, Dave Samuel, Dwight Schuh, Myles Keller, Waddell, Fred Eichler, and probably 95% of all Kansas residents and 100% of Texans. Maybe someday they can reach your level of competence. LOL!!!!!!!

I hunt with a longbow. So am I a better hunter than guys like Pain M who need training wheels to kill something?????? If that sounds stupid your right. It is. Get over yourselves.

You admitted like me you have used feeders in the past. Maybe Pat's home state is much different therfore his conclusion about their use is different than yours. I agree with what many of you KS guys are saying, up to a point. I have only been on the site for 2 years as a poster. During that entire time there has been nothing but complaining about NRs, outfitters, baiting, Hayden etc. ruining the resource in KS. Yet, if folks here would go to the KS site and read all of the 'Harvest Threads' they would quickly realize we have had probably one of our best years ever. Sure, there are a lot of variables like more guys with digital cameras, more guys sharing, etc... but that is helping the herd structure more. Guys are now more aware of the potential out there and are holding back from shooting an average buck-just like Pat did.

So we collected close to $5K by someone's estimate above. This went into the local economy and Pat did not take a deer. He helped other potential NRs see that holding out is OK. How is all of this bad for KS? Is it really the resource we are trying to protect, or is it really about our own hunting opportunities. It is the United States of America, not the People's Republic of Kansas.

I also think the guys that do most of the attacking do not represent the KS friendliness that people come to expect. Yes, I will receive numerous PMs supporting my position also.

Maybe Pat can find a compromise and have his hunt there next year and enjoy the friendships at the same time change his willingness to hunt over bait. I know when I went to hunt elk in CO, I didn't start at ground zero as I knew nothing about the land, the animal (other than what I read, viewed at RMNP and on videos.). I asked for advice and paid to lease land on a very large private ranch that butted up to public ground.

Pat, thanks for spending your money here. We need more like you. And thanks for holding out!

Samson, I didn't realize Pat didn't bait last year so I just watched the video. You're right. I wonder if my fellow Kansans throwing fits will give him credit for that? Probably not since it basically throws their argument out the window.

Our disaffected Kansas hunters don't speak for me. I am a strong proponent of our free enterprise system, private land rights, and a man's ability to become rich and successful and spend his cash anyway he chooses. It's not my fault someone may live in a trailer while others become successful. Reminds me of the class warfare bullshit we're seeing now with Obama, Pelosi and Reid.

It's a sad day when someonw like Pain M, who tortures us with his "look at me" videos on this very website turns around and acts so disrespectful to the people who graciously gave him this platform for free. We don't have much respect for classless people like that around here. I don't know how Pat tolerates it but he's certainly got more character then any of them.

I know Pain personally. While he is never shy to voice his opinions, he is a respectful person who gives back to our passion. I have taught HE classes with him.

If you believe in all of the things you stated above, you should have more of a problem with an individual who would kick someone off the site just for expressing their viewpoint that happens to not agree with the owner of the site.

Many of the guys from KS who do not appreciate what has happened here are stand-up guys whose life style might just surprise you. Implying they are trailer residents or worse was not cool. I don't agree with many of them, but have tried to not lower myself to personal attacks. I limit my harsh criticism to their comments.

That being said, I appreciate your willingness to stand up publically for many of the same things I do. Thank you!

Don't get me wrong, I like these kind of discussions and think they should continue, but you can start another thread for that.

Having such a disagreement on this thread is kind of like inviting a girl to the dance and calling her a whore while you are dancing.......

Most KS guys probably agree with you, but they don't participate much any more. Hopefully things like this will bring some of them back.

I really enjoyed watching your hunt play out and appreciated your keeping with a management standard you made for yourself.

I love this site and have learned TONS reading it. Thanks.

For someone to tell me what I'm implying is ridiculous. Landowners can do what they please with their property, people can hunt however they please if it's legal. Doesn't mean I have to hunt that way, or think that they're the great white hunter. If you don't like being tortured by my video's, don't read my blog. Nobody is holding a gun to your head making you, are they?

I'm not going to apologize for stating an opinion. I would like to thank Pat for the forum he gives us. I've learned a lot on here and met some great folks, too.

Pat, I never meant any disrespect to you personally, my original comment was directed at someone else's post about what hunting was all about. If you make it back in December, give me a shout. I'll buy you a beer to wash down some of the venom.

When I get my farm in Iowa you will be more than welcomed, any time. Maybe we'll even do a live hunt. Hope ya get back to Kansas in December and bring home your biggest to date. And for the guys who really don't know Pat, you'd be embarrassed of some of the things you wrote once you got to know him, IMO.

Scott

XMan

Apparently, I do NOT follow you, but rather than post it on the forum, I sent my observations to you, via PM.

Pat,

I think that I agree with txhunter58, if you should decide to post this thread again next year......

Then fly to Wichita from there..:)

I think Steve is politely stating anyone that can guarantee a 150" is, well, a person qualified to write childrens' books where an imagination or ability to exagerate is helpful. :)

I suggest Kolin have to pay a "non-trophy" fee of $1,000 if Pat isn't successful,just so Pat knows his guide will have incentive to give effort :).....St.Jude would be a worthy cause :)

On a serious note....Pat,thanks for giving.St.Jude touches so many lives and some very close friends lives as well......

I should've kept my trap shut, honestly...better to be quiet and thought an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. ;^)

BTW, I'd have hammered the big ol' 8pt, busted brow tines and all.

Quit spending my wifes money will ya.... ;-)

Maybe I've missed my calling as a childrens books author..........maybe I shouldve paid more attention to my english teachers in highschool.