First, I will state that hunting success and going on guided hunts are NOT directly correlated. If you don't physically train for your hunt, if you don't practice with your bow, if you don't conduct a reasonable amount of time learning about your quarry, in the majority of cases, you are going home without an animal....and the most amazing thing to me is that I find these parts of the preparation phase to be some of the most enjoyable aspects of the hunts that I have done.
Second, many hunters apparently don't understand this, but unless you live in Alaska (and/or are lucky drawing tags), if you wish to hunt on the NA continent, depending on where you live,in the majority of cases, MORE THAN HALF of the big game animals that you can legally hunt with a bow require a guide by LAW. I live in western NY, and I was required to have a guide for MANY of the animals that I have hunted....DIY is NOT an option. Saying that guided hunts reduce the level of skill required (to be successful)is not only inaccurate...it shows that you do not have sufficient hunting experience to offer a valid debate.
Third, if you love to hunt as much as I do....FIND A WAY....that's it. Find a way to make it work. There was a thread earlier this year that talked about booking plane fares on Wednesday evenings after midnight.... that'll reduce your travel expense. There's some tall drink of water in western NY that'll loan you his arctic gear (if it'll fit), provided you return it in good shape. If you smoke, quit. If you drink, cut back (or quit). Carpool to work, ride a bike to work, walk to work....all of these things will reduce expenses, increasing discretionary income. I submit to you, that if everyone on this forum REALLY wants to hunt all of the North American game as badly as I do, they will find a way. I know this, because I am DOING it. So can you.
Excuses only satisfy the people that use them. Think outside of the box. Emulate successful people. You should be taking advice from people that have done what you wish to accomplish. Do not listen to the naysayers, for they will steal your dream. Surround yourself with excellence....but find a way. Git ur done.
Right now I'm trying to find a way for my dad and I to get back to Africa. It's not a matter of "if", just "when".
With attitudes like those which you both possess, I'll be looking at your successful hunting photos (IF you decide to post them.....LOL) in no time. Git ur done.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
One mans junk is another mans treasure.
My biggest thrill was seeing my 12 yr old son kill a wa.ruffed grouse with his bow at 30 yrds or so.
He now calls elk in for me and packs em out as I butcher.
Milt
Like eating your elephant, one bite at a time? Something tells me you'll get your elephant hunt in someday.
As far as guided hunts many times that's the only way you can go. I much prefer DIY for several reasons, but you do what you have to do. Anything Canadian or out of country requires it. Mountain lion? Who has a trained pack of hounds in the back yard? Spring bear, you'd best have lots of time and a source of bait in the area. Short on time usually means a guide is the way to go. 5 day DIYs are swimming upstream, success rates plummet. Check with the guys that have gone on guided hunts, very few slam dunks out there.
They are right Jake, you're a lucky guy. Luck being where preparation meets opportunity. From all I've seen you've worked hard at getting both.
CLINK! Here's to the future! (Ahh, I'll cut back on my drinking tomorrow...anybody seen where I laid down my cigar?)
Most people have that, and 2 car payments and credit card debt and much more.
I'm 39 1/2 years old and I know I will likely never sheep hunt. Sucks too - I'd love a go at them, or goats or many other of the big game animals that are out there.
Sure, I could go to the Wrangell's next year if I wanted, take a second mortgage, tell the kids the Buffalo River trip is canceled, ask the wife to get a job maybe ...... but you know, my desire to hunt sheep isn't stronger than the responsibility I have to my family.
I am selfish enough to go to KS every year that I can and elk maybe every other .... and feel guilty doing that
Money restricts and there aint no two ways about it
My next round of choices will be similar to Jake's(I am doing some already). Invest, save, don't buy stuff that I don't need and don't go in debt and use my expendable income on hunting. I plan on doing a lot of hunts by being frugal and smart. It doesn't take tons of money just discipline, which I am slowly learning.
My hat is off to Jake. He is doing what all of us dream of. He had marketable skills, invested wisely and made good decisions. It is paying off for him in a big way.
He earned everything he has.
Having been through marraige, mortgage, divorce, married again and now paying for college...I know and respect both sides of the coin...but I will never knock a person that has the ability to pay for his hunts...nor will I knock someone who can't.
Your talking from the perspective of a young man with lodes of cash lying around the house aren’t you?
From what I know of you, you have everything going for you and a bright future. You’re young, strong, physically fit, motivated, well educated, and you have a good job with a great company. Oh no! I forgot, you're a displaced Yooper, sorry about that!!!
Some things in life never come easy and may never come at all. It is up to the individual to see that it all comes full circle.
You make your own life and are a product of that.
Jake great thread! I wish I had started earlier in life hunting other states (especially the west). I fell into the same rut Stealthycat has. It has been really inexpensive to do the things I had been dreaming of for most of my life. I did all my hunts DIY and did not break the budget. My success rate is average.
I'm still trying to shake that "Yooper" part but I did like all those adjectives!
In his analysis of my initial post, he hasn't considered that there might be other people that have a love of hunting that is every bit as strong as his, but may be satisfied in a different way.
Allow me this tangent for a moment, if you will. In high school, I lettered in multiple sports. I didn't have the muscle mass or mental maturity at that time to be truly outstanding in any one of those sports. However, I was good in all of them....if they had a high school decathalon, that might have worked well for me....I was a jack of all trades, but not necessarily a master of any.
Now come back to the present time.....I am not a slam, bam, thank you type of hunter, either. Anyone that thinks that I am just trying to put a bunch of heads on the wall, has theirs in the wrong place (and it is dark there). I have said a silent prayer for every animal that I have ever put down. I try very hard to make sure that no meat goes to waste. Some of my more satisfying hunting experiences (guided and unguided) involved coming home without filling a tag....but the lessons learned, and the experiences made the journey very enjoyable.
However, there are very few big game animals that can be hunted in the eastern US. So, yes, I must either move out west (or North to Canada), away from family and friends, OR consider hunts where a guide may be necessary. For my lifestyle, I chose the latter.
Unless you hunt an animal year in and year out, how can anyone intimately know them? ...and who says that having an intimate knowledge of one species shows any more passion for hunting than someone who at least has some background for every animal on the continent? Furthermore, what's the definition of intimate? Who is the all knowing that makes that final determination?
I am NOT sorry that I have the means for these hunts. I only wish that more people could enjoy as many opportunities as I have had. Since that day may never arrive for some people (for whatever reason), whenever possible, I have tried to "bring others along"...at least in a vicarious fashion.
I have taken many, many turkeys in my local area. I have been hunting them religiously for 20-25 years. Do I know that species intimately? perhaps. Perhaps it has helped to make me a good enough hunter that those skills can be "transferred" to other animals....especially if I take the time to learn the quarry. To hunt for an animal, to consider taking their life WITHOUT trying to learn about them, without some degree of sacrifice, lessens the experience and from my way of thinking, is nothing less than disrespectful .... both to the animal...and to me. If it is worth doing, it is worth doing with all of my dedication, desire, and passion.
To Stealthycat and x-man....I will simply say that I took on more than a million dollars of debt with very little collateral to get to where I am today. A car payment, a couple children, and a mortgage would have looked damn good about then....and if you wish to debate that point of view, start a new thread. I look forward to comparing and debating....but do you know who likes a whiner? NOBODY. Remember, whether you agree with me or not doesn't matter, for I will be hunting next season, whether it be unguided or guided. I don't mean for this paragraph to sound as strong, or as "confrontational" as it has become..... but I remain convinced that every single person that reads this thread, has within them, the ability to elevate themselves to a higher level. To raise their personal bar to a point where I can share a hunting camp with them....be it guided or unguided.
In 03 it was black bear in Newfoundland, 05 caribou in Alaska(DIY)and 07 was antelope in South Dakota. Right now I'm planning for 09, maybe mule deer or elk. (By the way, if anyone can suggest a good outfitter for those animals, I'd appreciate a PM).
When you just start out in your working career and your family is young, money can be very tight but never say never. Keep hunting locally and plan ahead for the day when you can chase these bowhunting adventures. Good luck in the deer woods.
I love the part where you said you are NOT sorry you have the means to go on your hunts. There are those who can't understand success, so they make excuses. They look at the successful and assume there must have been some nepotism or cheating or -- God forbid! -- luck that got them there. Never skill, work, determination, risk, passion.
I'm afraid we're seeing the end of the self-made man in this country. We tear down those who do in order to make those who don't FEEL better.
Jake, I can't afford the hunts you went on, and I consider myself well-off. But I've been around long enough to know that guys like you have generally paid their dues, and taken risk that I'm not willing to take. (Maybe you stole it, or your daddy gave it all to you, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt -- LOL).
Anyway, my hat is off to you. You know what you want to do, and then go do it. And you should not have to apologize to ANYONE about that.
Thanks for the "benefit of the doubt"....and my father died when I was 13. My mother raised three kids on social security and some veterans benefits. No "estate" either, trust me....and I appeared in Family Court as a juvenile more times than most Bowsiters probably have....I simply made the decision to change...and those changes had to come from within.
Like the old Smith Barney commercial....I made my money the old fashioned way, I earned it. I still remember the day that I was two payments behind, and a couple "key" employees quit on the spur of the moment. My "pucker factor" was so severe, I could have stood up from a wooden chair and probably picked it up with me!!
BC,
You nailed it. I didn't go on any hunts during those first few years, and I barely had time to hunt locally, as well. Now, I am making up for that lost time.
So very true, what a shame.
This isn't about hero worship for pete's sake. In fact, only a part of it is about hunting, it's as much about the never ending pursuit to be the best that you can be, as it is anything else.
You ascribe your priorities differently. That is perfectly fine. Better by my personal estimation. It all comes down to what matters to you. There are hunts I would like to do that I won't because they just do not scale high enough on the pecking order. In order to do these hunts, I would have to trade off love, joy, time with the family and resources I give to other higher priorities.
Given reasonable expectations, I have opportunities to expand my business to afford pretty much any hunt I want but I make it a point to be there to help with homework, tuck my kids in at night and sleep next to my wife in lieu of the months of absenteeism it would require to be a bigger player in my field.
At the same time, I will not begrudge a fellow who decides to make that trade-off when it starts to pay off for him. In fact, I'd cheer him on so long as he following his heart up the hills.
Relax. It shows that you have passion! Have you ever applied for an elk tag....in any state? Hell, they even have them in Pa.!! If you want this badly enough, I STILL maintain that you'll find a way to make it happen....and I hope that you do. To have one of those monsters screaming at you, with steam coming out of his nose, and an attitude in his eyes as he approaches within bowrange will leave you with a memory that will NEVER fade.....
Owl,
You brought up another incredibly important point. Priorities. Life is a never ending stream of decisions that we all must make, and our decisions are hopefully guided by each persons priorities. Great point.
Barring, tragedy or catastrophe, if you cannot change your life style to make it work, it just is not that much of a priority. Period.
Some people have kids that take time and resources away from hunting...Yeah, so what? Would you really have it any other way? There is absolutely no harm in having ANYTHING take priority over hunting.
*Edited*
I own horses. Horses take a lot of money. I like to travel. Travel takes a lot of money. I like spending time with my family, so I don't work as much as I could -- an afternoon off with my boy or my wife once a week is COSTLY.
My afternoon-off each week costs money. It also, in a way, costs a guided elk hunt. Each year. It's worth it, by the way.
Then I open Eastman's and cuss myself out for not having the means to take off more time from work and spend money that I don't have to chase critters like the guys in the magezine that I'm jealous of.
Like I said, I consider myself well-off. It's not that I can't. At 41, I've learned the lesson that I can do anything I damn well please, if I put my mind to it. The reason you don't hear about my Dall Sheep hunt is because I spent that time and money elsewhere -- and enjoyed every minute of it.
Thank God for Bowsite -- I love hearing of hunts like Jake's.
I'm 27, married, first kid on the way, and have had an insatiable desire to hunt all of America, Africa, and Asia since I was a little kid.
I'm an attorney, and hope to someday have the funds to go on some hunts, but to be realistic, I have narrowed down my hunting goals big time
My big 3 are. . . I would love to hunt Marco Polo Sheep and Altai Argali in Asia. I consider them to be two of the most majestic, impressive species in the world. Whatever weapon. And I want to own my own whitetail property near my residence.
Then, I hope to take at least one African hunt for plains game, and one elk hunt. I would love to hunt Bighorn or desert rams, but will probably only do so on a draw type hunt
So. . . basically, if I can hunt the two asian sheep and have my own whitetail property, and that's all I accomplish in my HUNTING lifetime, I will consider myself lucky, and my hunting dreams fulfilled
Bake
Marco Polo!! Argali!!....Now THOSE are aspiring hunts!!.....I just read an article about a Marco Polo hunt. I don't think that I can handle that kind of altitude anymore... at least, not unless I spent a month acclimating, first. I can't wait to read about those hunts.....don't forget the pics!!
Any chance that you can post the photo of your buddies 10 point?
Bowgramps,
I completely forgot that Ky has elk!! Do they give preference points? If so, how many do you have?
In his book, which is a true story, he talks about one of the climbers on his team who was a Post Office worker from Washington or Oregon. This man had attempted Everest once before, but wasn't able to gain the summit. His desire to attain the summit of Everest was so great that he worked a second job, quit smoking, and scrimped and saved to be able to go again.
He ended up losing his life on Everest, but that's not the point. The point is that the blue collar man made it happen. And climbing Everest is an extremely expensive endeavor. In fact I don't think any hunt in the world is even close to being as expensive, except for Markhor and some of the argali in Asia
I was told that the odds of drawing a sheep tag were unbelievable too.....but someone has to draw....and I did - you can too. If you start to apply this year, someday you WILL get drawn. In the meanwhile, start focusing on a plan to allow you enough time off that you can give the elk hunt your best effort for several days.
J@ckrabbit
Bowgramps I assure you that you are not the least fortunate one here. I am a single father of three boys that I have custody of and I have a job that only grosses me about 38K a yr. I WILL be hunting moose in the next couple yrs !! and there ain't no moose here in oregon. SO where there is a will there IS a way.
I believe the main difference betwwen those that just dream and those that actually live their dream is simply setting a goal and making it happen by making the right choices(hard work and sacrifice).
If you are just reacting to what life puts in front of you and not looking beyond what tomorrow will bring it is not likely to bring you very much.....
If you make a plan and work to make it happen you can really enjoy to the fullest the opportunities we have in this wonderful country we all share...
Not saying everybody can be rich but I believe anybody that really wants to can hunt some great big game(Eastern and Western) every now and then.
Anyway, my 2 cents..
One day real soon, lord willing and everything goes right, I hope to have a farm in Iowa and retire from my job here in Pa, with in five years. Start saving your money for a plane ticket and some groceries. If you can do that in five years I may just have a place for you to have an awesome hunt of a life time. Also start applying every year for a preference point with the Iowa DNR but, just buy the point do not put in for the draw. Cost is only $12. I can't make it happen for you but, I sure would be willing to try if you're willing to do your part and that includes looking me up in five years. Oh yeah, bow only. Now it is up to you to make the rest happen.
Iowabound at work
By the way, the most recent edition of The Huntin' Fool started discussing the state by state info for the 2009 season. See if you can locate/borrow a copy. Maybe there is something in there that'll work for you...as far as a lottery draw is concerned.....it can't hurt to check it out....
More times than not when my friends call I'm still in the office working at 9:00pm while they're out having fun. But when it comes time to committ to a good hunt it's always. "I don't have the cash. Must be nice."
I have a wife, kids, mortgage, car payments, etc but I also work effectively and more than most of my friends to be able to afford it all. I made sacrifices in my earlier life that some friends did not and now they are paying off.
I have friends that will drink away a "trophy out of state bowhunt" in a bar in a matter of a few months. The same friends complain about not having any money to go hunting. It's all about choices.
Quinn
I also encourage you to look into the draws-many states let you get in "the game" with little cost. The odds can be high but much better odds than the lottery- and someone has to draw.
(Heck, it even happened to me as I drew a Wyoming moose tag in 2005 and had the hunt of a lifetime and took a great bull to boot!)
Good Luck and Good Hunting!
Clay
That does not justify crying foul that you cannot do some or all of the things jake has done, when you haven't made the effort to sacrifice all the things he has sacrificed.
$1,200-$1,500 should be all you'd need to save up. Thats $4-$5 per day till we go hunting in colorado!!!
Guys here would be more then helpful i'm sure in giving you all the advice you'd need to have a great time..and hopefully,,,,harvest!!
See what I mean? In the last paragraph of the initial post in this thread, I suggested that you surround yourself with excellence. Rub elbows with people that have accomplished what it is that you want to do. Find people that reinforce your desire to achieve a dream, instead of NOT daring to believe.....and look what has happened. You've already gotten some leads on how you will make this happen for you. Hell, you've already got an invite to Iowa!!
I think the underlying theme here....is if you don't set your mind and do it, you will eventually die....still saying "someday".
I was forty before I saw the Rocky Mountains. I was guilty of being a "someday" kind of guy for a couple decades before that. Not any more.
Life is too short.
Seriously though isn't Kelly doing the hunt by a draw system?
Well if thats all it takes...let me say this.
I'm a poor immigrant from serbia and i have very little in life. My construction biz only made 60% of the gross revs it usually does, and my family has had to eat patatoes from the garden now for three straight months. I have holes in all my shoes, i don't have any more socks, and my pants dont't fit anymore. My trucks are all getting older, the bucks on my lands are too small, and there's not nearly any left from them all dying off from CWD. My wife is in the process of selling one of my livers, my hair is grown and cut to sell to wig makers, and my dogs are looking more and more like our meal for tomarrow.
Can i please come and shoot a monster class buck at your farm in IOWA too, I won't eat much, and i'll ground hunt for i sold all my stands to pay for a box of instant oatmeal.
thanks in advance...when can i come?
bowgramps....talk to kelly. I have a feeling he'll make an exception for you to go.
:^)
Just how many livers do you HAVE?!! LMAO!!
Serb, I've heard you're really not that good of a shot, so I'll have to pass, thanks though.
Bowgramps- you are welcome to go on this (hunt of a lifetime) Heck you dont live that far from me and did you read what Serb said?? It would be his honor to show you the ropes)
Now just get ready to be a laughing fool because Serb and I have been talking on the phone quit a bit and I can tell you it is going to be a hoot of a good time.
SO for my hunt if you want to go George you are the 4th man. Its your choice. So now I will have 2-4 spots left open if you choose to go.
Just let me know. And If I am driving out I would be paying for the petro anyways so you wont even need to spend the cash for that!!!
Sounds like the hunt of a lifetime may be in the works!!
I do know one thing for sure I am funny as hell in camp LOL :)
Jake uses the word "Journey" it took me too long to forget about the destination and ENJOY the journey. I am getting to that point and that is when life is good! Right on Jake!!
Nice buck! Few things are more satisfying to me than achieving a goal that has required a significant amount of dedication.....
If someone from colorado would now please step up and help our group out with some knowledge and leg work....please.
I don't want to impose on my good friend (another bowsiter...coloradobulls) who helped us out again. We really need someone who's willing to say...."go here" and give up some inside info on the elk in that area.
did i already say please!!!! lol
hey gramps....yes, thats your new nickname, show us a photo of you if you can.
I have a question about Colorado?? How soon can you purchase a license. And when you do I assume you have to choose a unit??
I returned one to you.
A Colorado resident may be able to give you more details than me, but......
When I bowhunted in Colorado last year, I needed to present proof of having attended a certified hunter safety course (maybe archery too, I don't remember). Make sure that you find your certification card...once you present it, Colorado will actually enter in their records, that you are "certified", so you won't need to present it on future hunts. You'll actually have a CID number......
Jake,
Great points made!!!
It wasn't that long ago that I found myself deep-sixing the paradigm of "I'll never be able to hunt all the things I want because I'm not rich" to adopting the one of "I must be rich so I can hunt everything I want" and it has made all the difference in the world!
My dreams are huge. My goals are big. My drive is tremendous, as is most peoples if they would realize it. Key is to quit going through life with your eyes half shut. Best,
Watts
Hardest part: Recognizing and releasing yourself from the negative things in your life that hold you back.
Doug
