Is this a big one?
Contributors to this thread:Bears
From: Mike Ukrainetz
12-May-09
Mike Ukrainetz's Link
Got this one on the trail cam, wondering if it's big enough? Those are 50 gallon drums.
From: Owl
12-May-09
I am led to believe there are no grizz in the Alberta baiting zones, Mike....:) He is a brute for sure.
From: bullelk
12-May-09
I think I would let him grow for a few more years....
He looks like he wants to pick up the entire drum and dump it into his mouth. You better keep him fed or he will kick your a$$!!!
From: TONTO
12-May-09
WOW! Great bear! Nobody I hunt with would pass on a brute like that! Good luck hunting him; he is a very nice bear!
From: SteveB
12-May-09
Wouldnt think of shooting something that small......
From: steff
12-May-09
Coloration and size appear more grizz than black bear. Looking forward to sucess photo if is blackie!
From: TREESTANDWOLF
12-May-09
Mike, dont you just love cameras? WOW, keep us updated on him - Rich
From: Trophy8
12-May-09
It's ok! :)
From: gobbler
12-May-09
How did you get a picture of me at dinner?
From: Mike Ukrainetz
12-May-09
grizz or cinnammon black? I about crapped my pants when I saw the pics, more to come.
From: The Old Sarge
12-May-09
First pic looks like a grizz, the second looks more like a black. You sure it's the same bear?
The Old Sarge
From: Trophy8
12-May-09
Sarge....look at the time of the pics....same bear.
Big black bear.
From: Mike Ukrainetz
12-May-09
From: The Old Sarge
12-May-09
ooops. :0)
From: Owl
12-May-09
Well, I can guarantee it ain't a grizz. Otherwise, Mike would be burning these pics. not putting them up for public display on the internet.:)
Keep 'em coming Mike!
From: Eddiebobeddy
12-May-09
That is a pig. Good luck!
From: Toby
12-May-09
Nice looking bear!!!
From: Bow Drawn
12-May-09
That's a no-brainer bear. That black bear just about has it all going for it to make someone very happy, that's a true trophy.
From: ridge runner
12-May-09
I'm still not convinced that ain't a griz. If he truly is a black what a monster. Based on that picture alone, I wouldn't drop the string.
From: Mike Ukrainetz
12-May-09
From: carbonarcher
12-May-09
Last pic confirms it's a griz in my mind, first two pics would have me holding my fire unless I had a Grizzly tag. Third pic makes it a no-brainer in my book, thats a Grizzly.
From: Blacktail Bob
12-May-09
I agree,its a grizz, black bears don't have claws like that.
From: ridge runner
12-May-09
Glad I held off. That's potential jail time in the lower 48. Make me think twice about climbing out of my stand with him around. Don't imagine blackies like hitting a bait with their cousins hanging around.
From: Owl
12-May-09
no brainer, it's a black. As I said above Mike, an Alberta outfitter, would not post these pics. if it was a grizz. Besides, I've seen how ridiculously thick featured some of those Peace bears are.
From: loadedforbear
12-May-09
pics look funny everything else is clear but bear is fuzzy looking
From: Zbone
12-May-09
Hump, small ears and claws - yep griz
From: elmer@laptop
12-May-09
contrary to popular belief black bear can and DO come in to baits that brown/grizz are at. they are much more cautious, butl come in none the less. At my bait sites in southcentral alaska I have had as many as 6 different brown bears and 10 different black bears coming in to the bait on the same night. A friend has had as many as 20 different brown bears and 15 different black bears coming to his bait site. he got them all on film.
having both around definitely changes the game. Basically the bears end up on a fairly predictable eating schedule with the blackies letting the brownies have at it till they are done, then the blacks move in. Have been watching that schedule set up for about the last 8 years with both on my baits.
From: ursman
12-May-09
Better call Zig, he usually gets the bigguns.
From: Bou'bound
12-May-09
owl -
why would he not post a grizz trail cam photo. would an outfitter be forced to stop baiting in an area with grizz? are you saying if it was a grizz it would not be publicized for some reason.
From: JERSEY BOB
12-May-09
Mike, where in Ab. do you guide?
From: Owl
12-May-09
"why would he not post a grizz trail cam photo. would an outfitter be forced to stop baiting in an area with grizz?"
- As I understand it, AB does not allow baiting in known grizz areas. Lord knows I could be wrong, though.
"are you saying if it was a grizz it would not be publicized for some reason." No, I just speculate that it would be unwise. :)
From: Shug
12-May-09
I had a similar situation a few years back in ALB... right at last light a giant came in the only way to tell in the low light was the claws. Whos looking at claws in that situation? I dumped the string and and earned myself a written warning for taking a griz without a lic in Alb........
From: Bou'bound
12-May-09
did you get to keep the bear?
From: bullelk
12-May-09
That is a black bear.
From: Mike Ukrainetz
13-May-09
The pictures are a bit fuzzy because he is tossing the barrel around, a barrel full of 350 lbs of oats, grease and gummies bears. It ended up 50 yds from the bait rolled over several logs.
From: Mike Ukrainetz
13-May-09
From: hoghntr
13-May-09
GRIZZ, GRIZZ, GRIZZ, I HAVE NOT SEEN ONE THING THAT WOULD MAKE ME THINK BLACK. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.
From: ELFKING
13-May-09
I have seen bears like that where I hunt; and they look like african lions when they come in. Could be a grizzly; but could be a black bear. The claws on a black bear will extend to turn over an oil drum.
Huge black bear; or grizzly... that is the question...
I sure don't have an answer I would take to court with me.
From: hoghntr
13-May-09
IF IT WERE BLACKIE THAT WOULD BE INSANE. MY VOTE WOULD GO GRIZZ. I HAVE A HARD TIME BELIEVING PEOPLE ARE VOTING BLACKIE. WELL I GUESS I HAVE BEEN SHOCKED AND CONFUSED ABOUT MANY KINDS OF VOTING LATELY. GOOD LUCK WITH THE DEBATE. IF SOMEONE WHACKS IT LET ME KNOW THE DECISION. IF ITS A BLACKIE YOU BETTER DO A DRUG TEST ON IT, IM SURE HE WOULD FAIL.
From: ridge runner
13-May-09
Let's see?
Concave face pic 4= Grizzly Claws 4" or so Pic 3= Grizzly Shoulder Hump pic 5 = Grizzly
From: Blacktail Bob
13-May-09
Black bears do not have long curved claws like that. Regardless of whether or not he's rolling a barrel, the claws on a black bear would never look that long and curved. A grizzly bear has long curved claws, that is positively a grizzly bear.
From: Blacktail Bob
13-May-09
17 Year Old Grizzly
From: Blacktail Bob
13-May-09
13 Year Old Black Bear
From: Blacktail Bob
13-May-09
3 Year Old Grizzly
From: piton
13-May-09
Grizz
From: Blacktail Bob
13-May-09
Black bears just don't get near as long and curved claws as grizzly bears. Even at a young age grizzly have much longer claws. In theory, thats why they can’t climb trees, but I've seen them climb many trees.
From: Lucky B
13-May-09
WOW....am I seeing things or in two of the photos is this bear so fat it has a double chin? I have seen hundreds of bears but never a double chin. Awesome beast!!! Best tell from these pics is the face and head configuation. Flat forehead and definit muzzle coloration difference. My vote.... is tenative based on the limited angles..... Black Bear. You have to name this bear Double Chin. Awesome. Keep the pics coming... Good hunting.
From: Mike Ukrainetz
13-May-09
From: Bake
13-May-09
Not a bear expert,. . .
Dish face. . . griz Claws appear longer. . . griz Appears to have slight shoulder hump. . . griz
Bake
From: Owl
13-May-09
Bob, I agree with you about the general terms of your assertion. However, I believe the "length" in pic. 3 is more a function of angle. Otherwise, the claws on the right paw would be evident in pic. 4.
From: The Old Sarge
13-May-09
"pics look funny everything else is clear but bear is fuzzy looking"
That's likely just blur from a slow shutter capturing a fast-moving bear.
From: Mike Ukrainetz
13-May-09
From: Blacktail Bob
13-May-09
Well, if its a black bear, and I guess it maybe could be, that’s a real hog. I bet that is an 8 foot bear and who knows how big the head is on it!!!
From: carbonarcher
13-May-09
Look at the ears in the last pic, thats a Grizzly. Unless you've got daylight photo's of the same bear that show something different, thats a grizzly.
From: loesshillsarcher
13-May-09
Maybe a hybrid??? When I was polar bear hunting, I hunter nearby killed a polar/griz hybrid. Just a thought. I agree with LB in the muzzle. That makes me think black, but his body head and claws make me think griz.
From: Blacktail Bob
13-May-09
Either way, black or grizzly, I know I'd like to run an arrow through him.
From: carbonarcher
13-May-09
Oh hell yeah, I'd run a carbon through him, but not if I didn't have a grizzly tag in my pocket. Pic 2 and 5 he looks like he's posing to get shot.
From: Blacktail Bob
13-May-09
"Flat forehead and definit muzzle coloration difference."
Does the muzzle coloration differnce indicate a black bear to you?
From: missingstrands idaho
13-May-09
Mike this is an awesome set of photos. Talk about a great way to learn to identify your bear.
I vote Grizzly Shoulder hump dished face long claws grizzlied hair in the arm pits. small ears
Muzzle color difference throws me though Hump is super pronounced
Very confusing - I beat if the photos were in color we could tell though.
This is an awesome lesson for all of us.
From: missingstrands idaho
13-May-09
sorry hump is NOT super pronounced
From: carbonarcher
13-May-09
Blacktail, if someone is going off the change in muzzle coloration to correctly identify the difference between a blackie and a griz, then they maybe need to see a few more grizzlies. I've seen plenty of griz with different color noses then the rest of their hide, and I've seen plenty of black bears which have no coloration change in there muzzle's as well. I'm with you, the muzzle coloration difference has no bearing for me on what type bear that is.
From: Trophy8
13-May-09
I'll agree, muzzle coloration is not to be used to determine a black bear and a griz. I still think its a very large black, though on a few pics it seems to have giz written all over. There is something in the body shape that keeps me thinking black, but then grizz.
Either way, great pics.
From: Blacktail Bob
13-May-09
While I guess it could in some cases, but from my experience grizzlies actually have the more common different color muzzles. However, most of my experience with black bears is from Prince of Wales Island where bears are almost all pure black.
The grizzly bears I’ve killed have different colored muzzles.
From: Trophy8
13-May-09
Blacktail Bob....Lets forget the claws, does the face of the bear read grizz to you? In one picture it looks close, yet another I don't see it. As far as the hump goes, again it appears in one pic, yet doesn't look as pronounced in the others?
From: Blacktail Bob
13-May-09
Overall it looks like a grizzly to me, but it might be just such a huge black bear its shoulders appear to have a hump.
The attached photo is of a pretty big black bear and when I look at the shoulders it does appear to have a small hump. I guess this could be a function of taxidermy work versus real life. I think the bigger a black bear boar gets the more he starts to look like a grizzly. I still think the bear in the photos is a grizzly though.
From: kshogman
13-May-09
Black bear !!!! A real monster
From: phutch30
13-May-09
From: phutch30
13-May-09
I am going with a grizz. The shape of the face/head/ears say griz to me. It doesnt have a pronounced hump but a few dont. Id like to see a clear daylight pic but id be surprised if that is a black bear.
From: phutch30
13-May-09
For those of you who think its a blackie, what features are telling you this. Other than it being a bear I am not seeing anything that stands out alone as indicating its a black bear. Based on the pics here, there is no way in heck I'd shoot that bear here in MT. Id be looking at several thousand $$$ in fines.
From: loesshillsarcher
13-May-09
I dont have experience with bear muzzles. I live in Iowa but do see the occasional bear. Interesting that the blacks on Prince of Wales are very black muzzled. I am going to find out first hand in little over a week. I hope this bear is positively IDed at some point. It really has my interest. Nobody is suggesting muzzle differentiation as an absolute Id. some may say in some blacks it is very distinct.
From: Trophy8
13-May-09
I think Mike knows and is just playing with everyone.
The more I look at the pics, I am leaning towards a grizz.
From: bowman dan
13-May-09
I don't have a lot of it , but my money is on it's a BLACK BEAR
From: Mike Ukrainetz
13-May-09
Just got back from tracking, finding and skinning out a 20 inch bear, melon headed thing. Will post pics of him soon but here is another one of the mystery bear. Then I'll post more that will have everybody scratching their heads.
From: bowman dan
13-May-09
Can't wait to see more pics!
From: Owl
13-May-09
From: Trophy8
13-May-09
Ok...its a griz no doubt.
From: Shug
13-May-09
Bou...No. Fish and Game took it. I believe its at the Office in Ft Mc Murray....
From: Teeton
13-May-09
Please change the camera to color, that is if you got a color camera. Then ask me. :}
From: Lucky B
13-May-09
loesshillsarcher... Thank you for clarifing. Muzzle is not an only Id to rely on. This is in ALB right? We are all guessing because the pics are just not detailed enough. I do think the pics are being chosen to continue the debate. I also agree its a good lesson for all of us. I have seen many griz and many blacks. Most of the time identification is obvious and definit. In ALB the muzzle coloration is on black, black bears pronounced. These photos are not in color so, is it a cinamon or a black color phase? Anyway, based on the limited angle and head shots and lack of HUMP and rounder body I will still guess blackie. All bears have a hump when their head is down feeding. Didn't say I would drop the sting.....YET!! This is fun keep the pics coming. "Blackie".
From: Sixby
13-May-09
positively a big Black Bear. Grizzly has a much longer and squarer snout. This is a huge black
From: elmer
14-May-09
I've seen hundreds of grizz and even more blacks and I"m still confused...even with living in grizz country for 25 years.....but the shape of the ears really has me thinking grizz. And there's just enough of a hump to push me into thinking grizz also. And a blackies butt is usually higher than the front shoulders which leads me more to grizz. Looking at the broadside photos, this one has a higher front shoulders than butt so this also has me saying grizz.
but I"ve been wrong before!
From: Bou'bound
14-May-09
i am now curious as the the intent of the thread.
does mike know or not?
is this just an open ended debate or is there a definitive answer forthcoming.
From: carbonarcher
14-May-09
Last pic still has me calling it a Grizzly.
From: Blacktail Bob
14-May-09
Yes, this is very interesting. Some pretty knowledgeable fellows on both sides of the debate. Elmer, would you agree that if Mike finds claw marks in the tracks its almost for sure a grizzly?
From: dino
14-May-09
Regardless it's a hog of a bear. From the pics I say Grizzly.
From: Owl
14-May-09
Well, Mike will eventually settle this for us all. More than likely, I'll be in the bush when he does. I'm sure someone will order me up a double helping of crow if I'm wrong. ;)
From: Charlie Rehor
14-May-09
Mike: You are playing us very well. When I was Mulie hunting with Mike in 2006 we discussed this very point and a Griz ANYWHERE near where Mike hunts is extremely rare but does occasionally happen. My GUESS and I repeat Guess is it's a Black Bear and we will see a picture with a lucky guy standing behind him shortly! Shoot em up! C
From: elmer
14-May-09
Bob, yes I agree. If there are claw marks in the tracks it's normally a grizz! Unless there is very soft dirt where sometimes even blackies show their claws having used them for traction.
From: Mike Ukrainetz
14-May-09
Honestly guys I'm really not toying with anybody. I'm just trying to guide 2 hunters, keep up with 18 baits and run in the house to put stuff on the computer. My 2 hunters just killed their 3rd bear so I'm a skinning fool too. Those are the best photos I have. I believe I saw the bears track in hard dirt but soft enough to leave a very good impression, 5 1/4 to 5 1/2 inches wide, as big as any track I've ever seen, 3 1/4 inches tall. No claw marks until he dug up to run and then one claw dug in and it was tight to the toe, less than an inch in front. The pics were taken in good daylight but not good enough for the camera to be in color, went to infrared flash. I have no definite answer yet either.
What kind of bear is this next one? It has something to do with the first one.
From: Mike Ukrainetz
14-May-09
From: TOP PIN
14-May-09
looks like a black bear to me.....??
From: ORARCHER
14-May-09
Nice FAT one too !! I would love to shoot him !!
From: Owl
14-May-09
I hope he slips in a little earlier tonight for that fellow with the remaining tag.
From: Owl
14-May-09
"What kind of bear is this next one? It has something to do with the first one. "
It's the cub...lol
I'm spending too much time here.
From: Owl
14-May-09
Toadie sow brings in toadie boar...
OK, I'm gone for good, now.
From: HUNTER68
14-May-09
Mike as a fellow bear hunter in the area , rest assured ur critter is a grizzly and anyone who has hunted long enough should have no problem telling the difference , great job on the first three bears , cant wait for pics of the 20" p.s. look at the head shape of this bear to mikes all
From: Mike Ukrainetz
14-May-09
Okay then look at this bear picture, same bear as the fat one timed 02:12:25. Notice the big discolored mark on his back, then look back at the so called grizzly pics 4 and 5 and tell me if it's not the same discolored mark on his back too? These 2 bears are on baits just 3 miles apart, same bear? If so, he sure looks like a black bear in this pic does he not?
From: Shug
14-May-09
I wanna say Grizz I keep seeing that Giant Red that Zig took with you and it kinda looks a lil like that blackie...
From: ELFKING
14-May-09
there is a possibility that the infrared is effecting what we see in the photos. In the 5-7-09 2:50:17 photo for instance that is not a perfect side angle of the muzzle of the bear. Its head is tilted just a little.
This bear is coming in - in the dark. That is a tip off that it knows the game.
It seems more likely that a grizzly would take over a territory; and a bait; and feel free to eat during the daylight.
Big black bears know the safety of darkness; and would be more likely to be nocturnal.
I however am not familiar with grizzlies - other than the occasional sighting of one.
From: bullelk
14-May-09
I still believe we are looking at a very big black bear.
From: Lucky B
15-May-09
Ok....after the last picture I am convinced more than ever its A BLACK BEAR. Correction.....a huge black bear!!! I personaly have never seen a griz look like a black bear. However I have seen blacks that make me do a double take and question what I am looking at. If I am wrong I would be getting a fine, cuz now I am drop the string. I hope Mike, you do let us know and keep sending pics. Can't wait to see one of your hunters with their tag on him. Good hunting.
From: dino
15-May-09
I don't think the two bears are the same one. The last bear is a black bear.
From: TOP PIN
15-May-09
black bear....
From: missingstrands idaho
15-May-09
I still say grizzly even in the last picture. As Hunter68 pointed out, look at the head shape. VERY clearly dished face compared to the black above it in Hunter68's picture.
I still think it has to be seen in daylight/color to be identified properly.
From: Reaper
15-May-09
Here is a picture of the track of the mystery bear!
From: HUNTER68
15-May-09
ok now 20" remillard bear 4.5" pad this bear 6.5 /7" pad hmmm better put in for the grizz draw
From: Ken Taylor
15-May-09
Bears of similar size feet vary somewhat in size like humans. I've skinned about 700 and examined probably about 1000.
The biggest black bear track I ever measured was a front pad bear track in clay (so it was very distinct) in Quebec in 1992 (with witnesses) that was 6.5 inches normal measurement and 6.25 absolute minimum measurement by being extremely strict.
We never got that bear, he simply vanished.
So that could still be a black bear track as the potential for size is even better in Alberta.
From: carbonarcher
15-May-09
The potential for Grizzly is also even better in Alberta. I spent my whole life hunting bears in NW Montana alongside Glacier Park, and nothing about the pictures say's anything to me but Grizzly.
From: Ken Taylor
15-May-09
I am simply stating the fact that that a 6.5 inch track does not mean that it couldn't be a black bear.
From: gobbler
15-May-09
Do you have any pictures of it in daylight?
From: ELFKING
15-May-09
We could all start doing the science ourselves and list it here. I have found that a 5 inch wide front pad on a black bear means a 5 foot bear; and a 6 inch pad a 6 foot bear- I have not measured a bears foot over 6 1/4 and that was a bear that was just over 6 feet; and p&y.
From that photo of the track; I am saying it is a black bear. It matches the size of the bear in the picture perfectly - for a black bear. Again; I have little experience with grizzlies; and none with brown bear - but in my mind it seems like grizzlies have bigger feet than a black bear. IF that thinking is correct - then the bear in the pictures is a black bear.
Big black bears have a line on their forehead; a wrinkle sort of; and that can make it appear a little dished shaped.
The track ; the nocturnal behavior and being the biggest bear on the bait....I am thinking black bear.
From: HUNTER68
16-May-09
ive been baiting a long time , i say man-up sit in the bait first pic of bear posted was at 10:00pm and either shoot this monster black bear or take some pics of a very nice grizzly , then all of us professionals can have our minds set at ease . For mikes sake if its a black or browny i tip my hat to you sir once again you have proven yourself as one of the premier guides in alberta .
From: ELFKING
16-May-09
true!
From: Jwillman6
16-May-09
That bear has more characteristics of a Grizzly, they have been seen in Montana and Wyoming in areas they have not been seen in 50 years. They caught a small male Grizzy in an area of Wyoming where there were supposed to be only black bears. They put a tracking collar on him and he went through towns and was never seen.
From: Mike Ukrainetz
17-May-09
Hey guys, thanks for all the interest in the pictures, great discussion. I really wasn't trying to stir up any big controversy, just putting some pictures up that i thought everyone would like to see. Thanks for the compliments too. I did sit the bait one evening with a hunter and didn't see any bears, left a camera on it and the bait 3 miles away and haven't got another picture of him. I'm not absolutely positive one way or another whether it's a grizzly or not, but I don't get to see many grizzlies so I may not be the best judge. I would know it with daylight pics or in person. We still have several weeks to hunt and I'll keep checking it out. Good luck with your bear hunts to everyone who is fortunate enough to hunt these awesome beasts!
From: ELFKING
17-May-09
Bear hunting is so intriguing ! You might see a track and never a bear; or see but not hear a bear; or never get a shot; or just see things that just stick in your mind forever.
There is such great mystery in it. How big is the bear; what sex; what color.
The bear on the bait gets troubled; and looks into the brush nervously and moves out. What- you wonder is out there?
The silly little cubs.
The rubbed off butt of a bear that is so gross you have to speak out.
The silence.
The almost mystical appearance of a bear.
The sweat from carrying in bait; and putting up stands; and the game of chess- picking the right tree can be.
The mosquito that lands on your nose - as the bear studies (you) that odd looking thing in the tree.
Making a decision to shoot.
Not making the decision to shoot.
Taking a shot. A shot on a BEAR.
The blood trail..
the bear summer sausage... :)
From: Clutch
17-May-09
Big enough--shoot
From: thesquid
11-Jun-09
A real hog - shot
From: Blake Patton
20-May-20
All I know is I should be there next week trying to make positive ID! Dang it! He should be real big 11 years later - guess I should look at the dates
From: 35-Acre
21-May-20
I just wanna know. It's killing me. Having no experience at all, I'll throw in my guess as a black bear too. The snout looks lighter. I don't see a "hump" except if he has his head down (again - just pullin' out a wild guess). I have to agree with the OP, if this was daylight it would be easier to tell. However, it looks like the night vision/IR kicked in even with some light in the trees in several pics. I think that is throwing the color off and he is much darker than appears in the photos.
From: 35-Acre
29-May-20
C'mon Mike. The suspense is killin' me. No more pics or any visuals?
From: Mike Ukrainetz
29-May-20
It was a lot of years ago and it’s a very rare occurrence to have the kind of bear show up.
From: Mr.C
29-May-20
big black bear IMO very healthy young but mature boar the jury's still out ,lets hope the case gets solved
From: Shug
29-May-20
Never mind
From: TrapperKayak
30-May-20
Can blackie/griz hybrids occur? I know griz/ polar bear can. To me it looks like it has characteristics of both black and griz. If not, its all griz.
