About 3 seasons ago I accidentally hit a deer in the ham, the results were a dead deer about 55 yards away. Since then I have talked to roughly ten hunters from different states with the same experience. I have never heard of a deer hit in the ham and not recovered.
I would like to hear if any of you guys have had an experience with a ham shot, And the results.
Would you take a 20 yard or under shot for the ham?
Please only first hand experience hunters need respond.
I just got lucky and hit the artery. But it was just luck, again I would never take the shot on purpose. Like last year I hit a buck way back and got lucky and hit the artery that runs along the spine and the buck fell in 100 yards. But I would never intentionally aim there
Bake
My Dad gut shot a moose and it didn't go 80 yds. When we opened it up a waterfall of blood poured out. Turns out he shot high and hit the main artery (descending aorta) that travels through the abdomen (this artery is what feeds the femoral artery). Anyways the shot was extremely effective yet I would never consider taking it because the artery is maybe 0.5" diameter. The femoral artery is even smaller and this is what your hitting in the ham to make it a killing shot.
conclusion - the kill zone of the ham is very small.
I definitely consider myself lucky to recover that deer, but was also surprised at how quickly he bedded and couldn't get up.
Happy Thanksgiving!
The buck only made it about 50 yards. I couldn't believe the devestation caused by the Slick Trick broadhead. It shattered the femur into tiny peices of shrapnel. My buddy, who is a riffle hunter, made the observation that he hadn't seen too many bullets cause the kind of damage the broadhead caused. Long story short, while I would never intentionally take the shot, it was effective and made up for my poor decision.
Ironically, a friend hit his elk in the same place in September. I could actually hear the blood pouring out of the animal like paint out of a bucket. He expired in short order. While the arrow was removed before the photo, you can see the blood on the ground near the hindquarter as a result of the shot.
Contrary to popular opinion I have never taken a shot aimed for the hindquarters and would never recommend it. But stuff happens. If a person gets lucky, well, they got lucky.
In comparison to the artery the Ham is huge. Shooting the artery intentionally is like hitting a needle in a hay stack.
michael
That is a very accurate comparison.
I have never taken this shot with a bow nor will I ever...however in shotgun season shooting a 385 grain slug at 2000 ft per second I have shot 2 does but they were both from directly behind aiming thru the front. Both just dropped...
michael
However, I agree that this shot would ruin too much meat and that's something that should be considered.
I cant stand seeing the waste of meat. The TV show rifle kills through both front shoulders is kinda ridiculous.
“This will go along with the frontal shot topic, but even more outlandish”
Comparing the two shots is not even in the same ballpark…
What this post shows a lot of is those lucky enough to recover an animal after a "Ham" hit.
What it doesn't show is all the unrecovered animals hit in the hind quarters. I can tell you for sure in 40 years of bow hunting I have been in on three ham hits, not of them recovered. One was mine the other two were someone else's.
Femoral artery hits are lethal,, there is no evidence here that a ham hit without the femoral artery is anything but a muscle hit.
KJC's Link
First let me say the closer to the center of the ham, the quicker they seem to die. Three just happen to be close to center if I remember correctly and didn’t go far.
Of those three, one was running 10-point with that same 16 gauge when a kid. Hit him with the 5th and last slug in the tube of am old Remington 11-48 and knocked him down. (lucky shot) He had a hard time trying to get his back legs under him giving me time to run up and finish him. I was around 12 years old at the time and one proud happy camper…8^)
Long story short - another was my first deer kill when I was a small kid of 8 or 9 years old. (Please don’t crucify me, I was only a kid without proper parental guidance) Deer were very scarce in the late 1960's as was hunter ethics at the time. It was late Sept. and shot a small button with a .22 rimfire single shot rifle while squirrel hunting. One shot, the deer walked a few yards, laid down and died within sight. As said, it's a long story… but if I remember correctly, the little bullet was almost dead center in the ham broadside.
The other near center was with an arrow on a nice 4x5 on an evening hunt in late January a couple years ago. Seen the hit and knew it was bad but was able to watch him travel about a hundred yards or so in the snow and could tell he wasn't doing so good. Snuck out of the tree and abandoned the area to return in the morning. Picked up the blood trail in the snow a blind man could follow the following AM and found him just a few yards further from where I lost sight of him the evening before. (I may have a picture of that shot location somewhere)
The other arrowed was my first traditional bow kill in November 1988 on a basket racked 7-point. It was off center in the ham on an evening hunt. Tracked and pushed him that evening and lost the blood trail. Rain washed the blood trail over night once I resumed tracking the following morning. Searched all morning into afternoon and basically gave up the trail when I happen to jump him out of a thicket. To make another long story short, I ran out of arrows and ended up drowning him…But anyhow, he was still alive over 12 hours after the hit, but I don’t believe he would have survived if I hadn’t eventually found him…. (should have said “primitive kill…8^))
Mind you, I had no intention of hitting these deer in the hams... Just wanted to clarify that...
Okay, back to the button buck with the shotgun...8^)
I could write a book...8^)
Hit him during gun season in a light snow. Had no idea where he was hit, only that he left a blood in the beginning. Chased him all the rest of that day but never got another crack at him.
Took up the trail the following morning and had a hard time tracking him even in the light snow. Many times he quit bleeding and was trailing solely on tracks which was hard to decipher from other deer at times. I kept pushing him out ahead off me and only got glimpse of him a few times. He made huge loops over a mile sorta like a rabbit hounded by dogs.
Finally on the third day, I jumped him out of his bed and downed him for good. If I remember correctly I was around 14 or 15 at the time and was the longest tracking job of my life to date. Would have never found him if it hadn’t been for the snow. If I remember correctly, the hit was midway in the back of the ham.
Whether he would have survived or not, don’t know. I believe I just wore him down. I’m still very proud of that little button buck…8^)
Okay - Would never intentionally shoot one there with an arrow, but do have second thoughts with a firearm as a last resort and all that was presented. Matter of fact, almost did just that a couple years ago during a deer drive.
I was on stand, when a big, I mean big buck come through pushed with a group of does. He was near Booner caliber.
They came through at a trot and stopped broadside at about 40 to 50 yards. He stopped where there was a big tree covering his vitals and all I could see was his head moving and his broadside back end.
They paused there for a minute or two, and believe me, I had plenty of time to steady the crosshairs on the center of that ham. I could have drilled it with my scoped setup.
Believe me, I almost pulled the trigger. I figured it would knock him down and incapacitate him to where I could run up on him and finish him like the 10-point.
I didn’t take the shot….Of course when they broke, they went straight out away from me and never stopped.
If I had a do over, I now would have pulled the trigger…
I know I’m going to get flamed by some for these stories and after tonight won’t be near a computer until Tuesday to defend myself. Our gun season begins Monday, and I’m going…8^)
crankn101 – you asked for it…8^)
But a .22, C'MON MAN!!! Sorry couldnt help it.
I can remember it as vivid as yesterday.
I freaked when it laid down and died... Went running through the woods screaming for grandpa...8^)
That taught my dad ya gotta watch what you say around kids. "I'd like to see one with a gun in my hand"...8^)
This was either September of 1968 or 1969. Remember, deer were very scarce and a rarity to see back then.
I was born in 59 and didn't see a live wild deer until I was 7. So, basically I grew up with the deer population. Maybe that is why I have such a strong attachment to them...
It was a crazy experience, one I’ll never forget.
I’d tell events that happened after, but too long and not enough time.
As said, could write a book. Been chasing these critters adidly, sometimes obsessively over 40 years and have lotz of stories…8^)
Have a good weekend everybody.
First the deer. I hit a nice in the ham once, he was walking slow and he was about 30 yards and I didn't try stopping him first. I guess I thought my bow would be faster, but regardless he took off and I saw the arrow hanging down from his hind quarter. I only got a few inches of penetration. Others told me if I hit the femoral artery he would die quickly. Apparently I didn't, and I was able to track him the following morning for about 400-500 yards across a field and along the ridge of a ravine. I did find his bed off the knob of that ravine, but nothing afterwards. The pool of blood was pretty small. There were several places along the way that he stood for periods of time and he even doubled back once.
The first bear I shot was standing broadside at the bait in front of me. When I shot and the arrow penetrated the vitals, he quickly spun towards me and ran by me. He went about 70 yards behind me and stopped. After a while I could hear him walking through the swamp and he was heading away from me. When I got down the arrow was just beyond the bait and the broadhead wasn't on the arrow. I was using the Rocket Steelhead and they have really short threads. We found him the next day and he went about 250 yards. This is the distance he went from the initial shot. The arrow exited out his opposite thigh and it did have the 'x' in the hide, so the head stayed on thought the bear, but I have no idea where the head went. When we butchered him we did notice the femoral artery was cut.
But these stories all make a solid point. No matter what kind of hit it was, good, bad or horrible... the follow up must be relentless and with the attitude that there will be a dead animal at the end of the trail, or out there somewhere, and it must be recovered.
A buddy hit a buck in the neck.... we followed a nearly nonexistent blood trail for several hundred yards, took us several hours to go that far. We found that buck with a grid search, I think it took 5+ hours. Finally just stumbled upon buckets of blood and he was right there close by. The broadhead moving around in his neck, shaft hitting brush etc. must have finally caught the jugular and it was over in seconds.
What was essentially a non-fatal hit turned near instantly fatal. It would have been an easy one to give up on as we knew it was in the neck, we talked about how if good things in the neck are hit it's normally over fast. This was not over fast, I think it was near a quarter mile away were we found him.
Never give up. Relentless. Single minded of purpose. No matter where the hit. Sometimes they are not recovered, that's an undeniable fact. But that should never be from lack of effort.
It's not a shot I would ever take but it worked out for me on a terrible hit.
On another note, I don't see how a hole from a broadhead ruins any meat at all. I kept the entire quarter on mine. So what if it has a slice in it? A broadhead doesn't do the sort of periferal damage a rifle does.
" unless you can hit a hidden pencil that you have a rough idea of where it might be every time."
I think its safe to say the kill zone on a ham shot is much larger.
What other vital is there in a ham besides the artery? Unless you happen to hit that, a ham shot is just a meat shot, no vitals. Never seen a meat hit kill anything.
If you killed a deer with a pure ham shot you got lucky and hit an artery. Some of these shots aren't even really hitting that femoral in the ham, they are hitting as mentioned, the dorsal aorta, after maybe maybe hitting part of the ham. Only a couple arteries back there. If you hit one consider yourself lucky. They are about the size of a pencil.
I've killed deer, goats and a cow elk with exit holes in around the ham. But the entrance went through the chest and caught some good stuff. There are vitals that can be hit with entrance or exit in the ham area. Guts often hit in the ham area. I would not call any of that a vital area of the ham.
Ham alone? All you have is that artery. Meat hit isn't killing anything unless they die from infection weeks later, even with a rage....
My cousin hit one broadside thru the ham with a trad bow and wensel woodsman. Complete pass thr but no blood other than a speck or two. Found her next morning at the lake dead.
Low percentage shot that works. But dont to be an intentional target.
My cousin hit one broadside thru the ham with a trad bow and wensel woodsman. Complete pass thr but no blood other than a speck or two. Found her next morning at the lake dead.
Low percentage shot that works. But dont to be an intentional target.
elkmtngear's Link
I'm sure this buck is just fine, that's the only thing that makes me feel a little better about it.
Shot video is around the 11:30 mark...you can see my arrow stuck pretty rigid in the ball socket area when the buck runs off.
Best of Luck, Jeff (Bowsite Sponsor)
Open your mind...A guy above seen one recovered after the tail was just nicked.
And where does all the blood go after the artery? Just disappears at that point?
I bet more deer are lost with "perfect" double lung hits vs solid ham hits. Meaning you never know for sure exactly where your arrow hits...perfect double lung might be brisket while a solid ham shot might be back straps.
I hit an antelope through the meat of the hams. Just missed the femoral by 1/2 inch. I wasn't aiming there, but the arrow ended up there due to the antelope reflexes being quicker than an arrow. I was lucky to find him alive the next day and after a LONG chase/tracking was able to put a kill shot in. It was not something I would like to repeat.
I think the responses above do not represent a true picture of how many hind quarter shots are lost. It's much easier to post about how you hit something there and recovered it, but not so much to tell/re-live the story about one that you didn't recover.
Pics to follow
You advocating a ham shot? "Expanding your kill zone"? If you are, just spit it out.... already have one on board for a gut shot into the hams....cuz if it's good deer you just HAVE to get an arrow in em somehow.... who knows, maybe you'll get lucky...
I don't know how many hind quarter hit trails you've been on, I've been on many over the last 40 years, on several different species. Some get lucky, hit an artery, wild blood trail and dead quickly. Most.... no. Some were essentially gut shots and were hurting, we were able to get on em and finish the job. Others were sparse to nonexistent blood trails and no recovery.
There is no comparison to a chest hit and a ham hit. None.
The only thing I would suggest a person take from this whole thing is if stuff happens, hit a stick, animal jumped, pizz poor shot... well stuff happens. You might get lucky and hit something good and it all goes down fast. I would give a sigh of relief and say a lil prayer of thanks for the good fortune. Cuz that's what it was.
But mainly no matter how poor the hit, and a ham shot IS a poor hit, you follow it like there is a dead animal at the end of it and you have to find it. Relentless is the main thing that comes to mind.
WRT "opening my mind" I know of a bull elk killed by scaring it with a nick to it's hide on it's front leg and it choked on it's cud and died. Wouldn't recommend that one either. Even with a rage...
Fred Bear recovered every animal he ever hit in that area. Did he get lucky and hit that pencil every time? Not happening.
People get stuck in their ways and cant see anything with an open mind anymore. No offense, but the 40 years experience explains a lot, Youve been there, done that and know it all. while I take info from non-biased people and form my own conclusions.
Much the same reason we still keep voting democrat or repub. They both suck but we have been trained for decades that those are the only 2 options.
Another with the 7mm Rem mag that needed another 2 rounds. Thanks to a foot of snow for tracking that that was able to happen. So I would have to say bad experience x2
Comparing a femoral artery shot to a lung shot is ludicrous. Wou might compare a femoral to a neck shot, but in the neck you have the added chance of spining the thing. Though the neck moves faster. Either way I can't believe I am discussing the chance of aiming at either of those areas!
Fred Bear is reputed to have said that he thought that the ham shot was a good shot. he said that the hams contained the highest concentration of blood vessels of any part of the body. That being said, I wouldn't intentionally take the shot, but I later killed a pig with a similar shot.
TBB
I don't advocate waiting. I started on the trail right away. Blood trailing slowly ready for follow up. Every time the trail got weak, he was bedded close. Ended up pushing him to near exhaustion after two or more miles. He stood me off at 15 yards to finish him. One Interesting point, after the 15 yard perfect broadside shot, he walked downhill 150 yards and bled exactly three drops. Amazing to me.
Meat was fine. Did not lose much.
DJ
1) Is a femoral artery shot lethal? Answer: Absolutely, and fast.
2) Are ham shots that miss the femoral artery (or vein) typically lethal? Answer: Maybe sometimes, but slowly.
See the problem?
DON'T FRIGGIN DO IT. The femoral artery is tiny compared to the ham. It is NOT a reliable target.
DJ
I'd have a hard time with that one. I've never recovered every animal I've hit in the ham over the years....and I haven't shot at near the animals Mr Bear did in the day. They lost a lot of animals, 70+ yard shots instinctive, etc. much of it just trying to get an arrow in a animal, may get lucky and hit something good, may weaken it for a follow up shot. If you lose it you just went on after another one. Just they way it was back in the day. Remember the poison Pod? Fred Bear. Got tired of losing animals I would guess.... ("it's a joke son, I say it's a joke..." Foghorn Leghorn) No sacrilege intended...
WRT how far off, depends. Most ham shots I've been involved with were on the ground, quartering away to hard quartering away shots that were either pulled, animal spun (sometimes they spin and don't "drop") hit a stick or whatever. A pull of just a few inches takes you from the last couple ribs into the ham, normally the outside of it. Badly pulled you get more into the inside where the artery lives. That shot normally goes into the gut as well and can hit many things along the way, including getting all the way into the chest cavity as well.
Angles from trees I'm not familiar with. I would imagine the hind quarters have less tendency to block the vitals as on the ground. "Over the hip"... speaking of open minds and set in my way... there's a shot that stirs things up a bit.... =D
8 am this Saturday I had a buck come crashing through about 60 yds out, hot on a doe into a pine thicket. Couldn't get him off the doe. About 20 min later he comes back down out of the thicket, down a steep hill on a trail that puts him broadside at 26 yds. Was walking slowly from my front and left and I bleated and stopped him dead and released.
From there is when things get interesting. The arrow dove left on me. Why I don't know. Felt the string on my collar, so maybe that effected it, maybe nerves. Wasn't a trophy buck at all (i've gotten a few in rifle) but still a legal buck in bow so I was taking the shot. The arrow smacked him in the ass end and I heard a hell of a crack. He dropped instantly and fell down the rest of the hill.
I watched him get up as I nocked another arrow. Went right along the trail barely able to walk and bedded down 20 yds away in the one area I can't shoot from the stand. SO FRUSTRATING. He stayed bedded for roughly 10 min and then stood up. At that point, I could see the arrow was lodged in one or both of the back legs, could just see the veins. He stumbled just out of site. So with no cell service and the thought that it was a poor hit, I figured best to go get some help. I was confident that the buck couldn't travel far and obviously had no ability to run anymore. So after a solid 45 min, I went to get the other 2 guys I was hunting with. On the way out which was S deer went W I heard some serious thrashing by a pond about 100yds from the shot. Figured best to leave alone and go get the guys.
When we get back, we investiage the shot area, find the initial fall site as well as bright red blood, track for 20 yards and find the bed site that I had witnessed. Continue to find steady, easy to follow blood, but not heavy. Another 50 yds we find the arrow. Covered in bright red blood with lots of oxygen bubbles. Another bed spot here, so we figured time to potnentially stop and let it just die. Given the amount of blood and my observations we deemed it fatal. As we headed out back out we came across a huge bed area of blood on the main road into the stand. The buck had made almost a 270* circle and was heading just into the thick clear cut no more than 50 yds from the stand. At that moment we looked into the clear cut and could see the buck laying on its side in the clear cut. It could no longer get up and was just min from the end. I really cant stand to watch anything suffer any longer than what is absolutely necessary, so I went in and put a final shot with the side arm. He would have been dead within the hour had we not found him.
So for the damage. The shot hit on the right ham, and partially severed the hamstring and nicked the artery. It passed through to the left leg and shattered the bone and cut the artery. we believe the leg had twisted around itself on the left leg and thus slowed the blood trail after that the bedding area where we found the arrow. In the end the buck had traveled roughly 150-175yds in a loop and had lasted 2+hrs from the shot. Again not a good shot, and was fortunate to have not lost the deer. That said, i'm proud of the tracking and I learned a lot from the experience. Small basket 4x2 (6pt)
Note the blood throught the back end. Also had some mass about the size of a golf ball on the top of front leg. Was black. Anyone know what that is?
8 am this Saturday I had a buck come crashing through about 60 yds out, hot on a doe into a pine thicket. Couldn't get him off the doe. About 20 min later he comes back down out of the thicket, down a steep hill on a trail that puts him broadside at 26 yds. Was walking slowly from my front and left and I bleated and stopped him dead and released.
From there is when things get interesting. The arrow dove left on me. Why I don't know. Felt the string on my collar, so maybe that effected it, maybe nerves. Wasn't a trophy buck at all (i've gotten a few in rifle) but still a legal buck in bow so I was taking the shot. The arrow smacked him in the ass end and I heard a hell of a crack. He dropped instantly and fell down the rest of the hill.
I watched him get up as I nocked another arrow. Went right along the trail barely able to walk and bedded down 20 yds away in the one area I can't shoot from the stand. SO FRUSTRATING. He stayed bedded for roughly 10 min and then stood up. At that point, I could see the arrow was lodged in one or both of the back legs, could just see the veins. He stumbled just out of site. So with no cell service and the thought that it was a poor hit, I figured best to go get some help. I was confident that the buck couldn't travel far and obviously had no ability to run anymore. So after a solid 45 min, I went to get the other 2 guys I was hunting with. On the way out which was S deer went W I heard some serious thrashing by a pond about 100yds from the shot. Figured best to leave alone and go get the guys.
When we get back, we investiage the shot area, find the initial fall site as well as bright red blood, track for 20 yards and find the bed site that I had witnessed. Continue to find steady, easy to follow blood, but not heavy. Another 50 yds we find the arrow. Covered in bright red blood with lots of oxygen bubbles. Another bed spot here, so we figured time to potnentially stop and let it just die. Given the amount of blood and my observations we deemed it fatal. As we headed out back out we came across a huge bed area of blood on the main road into the stand. The buck had made almost a 270* circle and was heading just into the thick clear cut no more than 50 yds from the stand. At that moment we looked into the clear cut and could see the buck laying on its side in the clear cut. It could no longer get up and was just min from the end. I really cant stand to watch anything suffer any longer than what is absolutely necessary, so I went in and put a final shot with the side arm. He would have been dead within the hour had we not found him.
So for the damage. The shot hit on the right ham, and partially severed the hamstring and nicked the artery. It passed through to the left leg and shattered the bone and cut the artery. we believe the leg had twisted around itself on the left leg and thus slowed the blood trail after that the bedding area where we found the arrow. In the end the buck had traveled roughly 150-175yds in a loop and had lasted 2+hrs from the shot. Again not a good shot, and was fortunate to have not lost the deer. That said, i'm proud of the tracking and I learned a lot from the experience. Small basket 4x2 (6pt)
Note the blood throught the back end. Also had some mass about the size of a golf ball on the top of front leg. Was black. Anyone know what that is?
The deer may be in the next zip code and it may be 3 days later, but it will die.
Oh, I forgot to add, you will probably never see the dee again, let alone find it. Details, details, details...
That said, the arrow sailed left on me, and I would NEVER intentionally shoot for the ham, or advocate that it is an ethical shot.
How come when some of the tools get aggressive their posts are nuked from BS forever, but we are graced with TBM's delightfully charming brand of insanity from now until the end of time?
And I am 0 for 1. First deer I ever shot in the year 2000. He lived and was kilt with a rifle a month later. The ass is for tranq darts, real stuff goes in the chest cavity.
