mechanicals for moose?
Equipment
hey what do you guys think about using a mechanical broadhead for moose? I do realize that this is a can of worms here, so here we go!
mainly because i have about 150 of them already purchased, i have had a little trouble tuning broadheads in the past and ended up going with tekans, or meat seekers.
www.inverterbroadheads.com
150 of them. I haven't use that many broadheads in my whole life.
I think maybe you should try them out on a cape buffalo and report back the results.
I say no. Moose are not tough to kill but a sob to get penetration. The hid is like 1/4 inch thick.
i may be mistaken but i think they have taken cape buffalo with the rage broadhead.
Frankly, this seems like a great opportunity to learn how to tune fixed blades.
"i may be mistaken but i think they have taken cape buffalo with the rage broadhead."
And I have seen a video of a Yugo towing a camp trailer on Youtube. ;-)
well i agree with you Matt, i merely wanted to get opinions on why they are so frowned upon. i have killed numerous elk some at ranges of almost 60 yards, all with complete pass throughs. so im not sure there would be much of a problem with moose at say....40yds. What say you?
How 'bout the picture of the bull elk on the roof of a guy's Pinto?
Seriously now, just make sure you have at least a 2" cut, and have at least 35# of draw weight. :)
you guys are killin' me! i am a little bit serious as i have a moose hunt in sept 2011 in Alaska, their regulations so "no way" for moose. so its not a question of if i will be using fixed blade. i was just curious in the age of technology that we live in, an animal isn't going to know what just sliced through its ribs at 275 feet per second. on the bull elk i killed in 2007 it broke a rib going in, and going out, it lacerated both lungs and was still intact when i recovered the arrow, so the yugo analogy doesnt really fit. that would fit if i was shooting a red ryder kids bow. all kinetic energy is the same no matter how you do the math.
Call Meg Whittman, this sounds like a case for Ebay.
There are certainly MBH's that will do the trick with the right set ups, but I personally wouldn't risk it. I have no direct experience with moose, but they are big, dense animals. When I think of all the guys who don't quite grasp that elk are not deer (you no doubt have an appreciation for that difference), I can't help but think that moose are not elk.
I would add that using MBH's as a band-aid to cover for inadquate tuning can combine to really hamper penetration. I don't meant to be critical, but rather to provide advice to perhaps preempt a potential problem on what could be a once-in-a-lifetime hunt. There have been so many stories on this site over the years of people posting problems with MBH's, and after reading their set-ups and experience, I wonder how they could rationally expect any better of an outcome?
And the issue isn't so much if you hit ribs (i.e. if everything goes right), but if you hit the edge of the scapula, or you get a quartering shot that requires deeper penetration, etc.
not quite sure there beachbowhunter....you suggest i sell them? eh?
Well put Matt. Might I add...if a blade opens up during flight, or doesn't open up on penetration...
I'll 2nd the idea that you have enough time till Sept 2011 to grab a pack of FBH and tune correctly. Lots of guys, including myself, shoot big fixed blades with fast bows and they fly straight as an arrow...sorry, pun intended...geeezzz that was cheezy.
hoytman -
have you ever shot a moose?
not sure where this is headed mr. bou but i will bite anyway. no i havent shot a moose, that is indeed the reason for me opening this thread. i hope to in a year but for now the largest animal i have taken is a 850-900lb. bull elk.
I have used a 100gr Grim Reaper 1-3/8" cut Razortip on a moose with a great result. I use the head for everything else (where legal), and have never had a problem with them.
thank you for the vote of confidence on mechanicals backpack hunter
One of my best friends used a Rage 2 blade on his moose last year. The shot was 41 yards, the arrow passed completely through making for an excellent bloodtrail not that it was needed for the 30 yard recovery. The bow was a Trykon shooting Axis arrows at 29" DL. I say if you want to use a MH for moose go for it.
I love my mechanicals for elk!
wow it looks like the mechanical fans just got home from work
Let me get this right, you have 150 mechanical broadheads that you PURCHASED, you have shot numerous elk with said broadheads out to 60 yards ALL with complete pass throughs, you are a lttle bit serious about this alaskan moose hunt. Not calling you untruthful but my opinion is you would make one great hunter in camp around the campfire telling stories and having guys rolling on the ground laughing.
you should try shooting a mans bow ms. powder
I guess it comes down to how much weight is used to push the MBH thru the animal combined with the cutting diameter of the broadhead. are we talking 2 inch broadhead with a 300 grain arrow or are we talking a 1 1/8 opener with a 700 grain arrow? hypotheticals aren't my thing anyways. it's not legal. end of story.
Well, you asked for opinions, that is what you will get. Soundslike maybe you have your mind made up and just wanted someone to confirm it. If you just wanted to hear someone say they would work, obviously they can and have. I might not have caught where you were going, check the regs as some places don't even allow them.
I've seen Woody's rage video of testing on an actual moose side in slo mo. The blades were all shiny and sparkly as they fluttered to the ground on the wrong side of the moose as the arrow passed through. Was kind of pretty really.
I know guys that use them for almost everything and swear by them. Guys that have killed way more and way bigger animals than I ever will (Blacktail Bob comes to mind) But being a mechanic I know it's impossible to build one as strong (or reliable) as a fixed blade head. Rivets or screws instead of welds, blades supported at what are essentially fulcrum points for a lever rather than at the strongest position of support at the end. Strong "enough"? Maybe. Strongest? No. Not even close.
There was a hunter in Africa that killed all the big five (including many cape buffalo) and they say hundreds of elephants with a 7mm mouser and FMJ bullets (military surplus likely). That it CAN be done is not the question you should be asking. Of course it CAN.
The question should be it the BEST broadhead for moose? IMO no. Not that I've ever killed one, like you, elk is as big as I've shot. But I have a decent grasp of mechanics.
You're combining heavy bones with equipment who's primary disadvantage (besides reliability WRT some like Rage) is with heavy bones. Playing what may be it's biggest weakness to the biggest strength of the opponent.
TD, very well stated. I'm a big proponent of mech's appropriately used on deer sized game. I've killed a boat load of whitetails with them, without a problem. But we're discussing their use on a species several x larger. I'm inclined to "play the odds" on an animal a 1,000#+, and utilize a head better suited, on average again, for the largest of North American game. I see no sense whatsoever, chancing it on a design better suited, and likely designed specifically for, much smaller targets.
To answer the question you asked; I think it is,shall we say,unwise for all the reasons stated above.
IMO anyone who uses them is just being stubborn(period,but ESPECIALLY on elk and moose).
If saving a few bucks is that much of an issue you probably shouldn't be doing the hunt in the first place....
now this is exactly what i was looking for. i appreciate the honest opinions of people who have bright thinking minds, thank you "TD" very well explained. as in one of my previous comments, i divulged that they are in fact not allowed for moose in Alaska, i merely wanted some educated opinions on why not? thanks to all who gave constructive advise to a fellow bowman who didn't quite understand why? and to all of you, and you know who you are, who dont have any constructive input to help answer the posed question, put your pants on get out of your mom& dads basement and get a job, preferably away from impressionable children.....best regards....hoytman
O.K. Matt...lol lmao and all that stuff! i get it, i get it. point taken.:o)>
Mechanical moose? Nope never seen one, but I did see a mechanical bull once. Now that would be a hell of a broadhead test. Mechanical BH vs the mechanical bull, bet the bull would win.
150 broadheads?? Did you find a good deal on a shipment? Wow, that's a lotta coin for some broadheads.
The question you would have to answer is why would you want to use a broadhead that will have a lower percent chance of being effective on a big boned thick skinned critter like a moose? Just because you can't tune your bow to shoot fix blades is a poor excuse. Heck, you can even pay a good shop to do it for you.
I can row a boat to London and ride a moped to New York, but I'm not gonna cause its a stupid idea.
Doesn't everyone buy broadheads in hundred-packs? (snicker)
I suggest you learn how to tune your bow before you go to Alaska.
GG
Mechanical broadheads are just one more thing that could go wrong.
While I shoot with a whole different theory, trad bows, I still would suggest that you find a good COC broadhead. Ashby has an extensive report on shooting heavy boned game and a moose sure is a big boned heavy animal. I'm going after a moose next year too using my traditional bow, so I've been doing a lot of research into this.
There are a number of fixed blade broadheads that are easy to tune. G5, make a great fixed blade. There is my personal favorite Magnus Buzz Cuts. They have a video out of guys shooting them at 100 yards. Spend a little time with your bow and they will work out fine.
Oh, BYW, before you start cracking on guys telling them to shoot a "man's bow", maybe you should consider getting rid of your "training wheels".
Hope you have a great hunt and shoot a 74" moose.
LBB
ur gonna spend a bunch of money on a moose hunt and cant spend another 40 bucks on some good broadheads? dont give any chance for something else to fail
Man, some people on here are harsh. I really like what some people said (TD and others). I agree that fixed blades are probably best for moose, but mech work great on elk.
Mechanicals and Moose don't mix. What Matt and LBB siad.
Hope you kill a big one.
This is my thinking on mechanicals, even if they work perfectly 99% of the time that leaves 1% of the time they fail.
Do you want to risk that 1% being a once in a lifetime animal?
Guy over on the IL forum shot a doe the other day and his mechanical did not open up. Luckly, they still found the deer. Guess where he said those broadheads are going when he gets home....
Never killed anything bigger than a deer but I assume their is a reason that MH are not legal, and I am sure it's not because of the great penetration that they are known for.
I'm in on the use of Mechs for moose if.....you can post a picture of the 150 mechanicals that you have.
Is that a fair deal? No going to the store and taking the pictures there of all the packages you put on the floor allowed!!! lol
Now as for kids in the basement??? Your kidding right! We have more guys here that build subdivisionjs then there are mechanical BH's in your so called collection.
Now with all that said...I shoot Tekans from time to time, and have had a mishap happen a few times because of it. I shoot montecs for that reason 99.9% of the time. Think about it this way...how big of a hole is a mech without blades (because they broke off) going to make. Yes I've broke blades off mechs on wt's, and it wasn't a fun look see.
OH btw...thanks for educating us all on the fact that Alaska doesn't allow mechs...that was news to us all. lol
Mans bow???? rotflmao
I was guiding a hunter from Kansas Citty a few years back and called an absolute giant bull to less than 10 yards from the shooter. He took the broadside shot and watched his arrow tipped with a mechanical hit squarely on a rib, I suppose, bounce right off the bull. We watched that bull stand there wondering what happened, then turned and walked away. A couple drops of blood, that was it. Had another with a bull shot squarley on the shoulder blade, but I would not count that one as evidence mechanicals should not be used on larger game. No arrow would penitrate the blade. Up at bear camp, our hunters shoot mechanicals all the time and I've only seen one ever fail to deploy all the blades properly.
To quote 'Boubound; When the hunt of a lifetime hinges on your broadhead - don't use a broadhead with hinges............
I honestly believe that the mechanical thing has its basis in the fact that ~90% of hunters hunt nothing but deer and the average deer taken nationally is probably 120 pounds max (figuring in all the does, yearlings, etc. that make up the vast majority of the kill).
So these folks think they are BIG game hunting and if it works on their idea of big game it works on everyone's idea of big game. in reality, other than many hogs and nearly all pronghorn there is no smaller "big" game than the deer 90% of bowhunters take and base their "informed" opinions on. of course mechanicals work on that kind of "big" game, but what about consistently the real "big" game like the moose?
walking up on a 1200 pound moose is like walking up on a pile of 10 average deer stacked like cordwood.
A moose rib is a formidable piece of bone....!
There are places on a moose (thankfully not the places you try and hit for a killing shot...) where moose hide is over an inch thick.
For example, on the dorsal portion of the neck, moose skin can be twice as thick as that of a bull elk.
It is very different from the thin skin on a deer, an elk or a bear.
Pete
"It is very different from the thin skin on a deer, an elk or a bear."
IMO that is one of those sorts of things that people read, but they don't really grasp. We see it enough with people making the jump from deer to elk and substantially underesitmating just how much bigger and more dense elk are, but the jump from deer to moose or even elk to moose is a whole other ball game.
I've had a couple mech failures on whitetails (one rage and one spitfire), shooting 400 grains at 260 fps. I haven't had a fixed blade fail on me since. In fairness, I have also had these mechs work just fine, but as stated above, why take the 1% chance of failure. Way too many people have had my experience and have reported it here and elsewhere for anhone to believe that mechs work 100% of the time, even if they have for some hunters. I also note that even the TV hunters raving about the Rage almost never get a passthrough. You get to watch the run off with a glowing arrow still sticking out of its side.
I should have proofread that before clicking submit!
It's a long way across an A/Y Moose and the wet conditions in which they reside really puts a premium on pass through shots.
Re: Mechanicals
The inherent dumping of KE from blade deployment and the larger cutting diameter both bring a degree of antagonism to through and through shots and the recovery aspects of this species.
"Why?" IMO has been your best answer.
I have shot Ontario moose with mechanical broadheads. 3 of them.
I used to use 100 grain 2 blade NAP Spitfires.
Never again!
Since then, I have shot 2 moose with 100 grain Standard Slick Tricks.
I love my Slick Tricks!!!
The reason for abandoning mechanicals. Not enough energy to push the blades through the far side of a moose. I could poke the ferrel through, but not those big blades. With the exact same bow, I put my first Slick Trick through the moose and then into a Jack pine 10 yards behind it!!!
"No life is truly wasted, you can always be used as a bad example." Don't use mechanicals on moose like I did.
Mechanicals are legal in Ontario. :-(
Here's a video of a Colorado Shiras Moose taking a RAGE 100 grain 2 blade in the boiler room - The bull didn't go to far -
If I were to use a mechanical on a moose, the only one I would consider is the Steelhead. Small diameter cut, and one piece steel ferrule is the way to go.
I too had reservations on using a mechanical for my moose hunt. Granted, I was hunting Canada moose in Alberta which are not as large as the Yukon/Alaskan moose but it is still one big tough critter. I shot my bull at 20yds broadside with a Grim Reaper. The shot was a 12 ring and it sounded like a 22 shot when it cracked off it's ribs. I got full penetration with a complete pass through. My bull did not even go 40 yards and was dead in literally a few seconds. This quick and humane kill pretty much ended my skepticism for this particular mechanical and BIG game.
Dill: unless you have lived in Alaska and guided like Pete in Fairbanks has..... Wisdom over luck any day.
o.k. fellas. for all the helpful comments i have recieved on my question i thank all of you. i will explain for some of you hard@sses that i bought the frickin mechanicals off of ebay from a guy virtually giving them away! i bought several dozen at around $13 per dozen before he jumped his price to $15 where i bought numerous other dozen packs, he has since set his price around $17 per dozen. you doubters can open a window onto ebay and search "meat seeker". the sellers i.d. is rick0012 or something like that. now the reason for the purchase of so many was an intent to resale them for a little profit as you may know they sell for over $30 doz at cabelas or scheels or sportsmans, you pick, i figured a $5-$7 profit per pack would be a nice turn around. the guys interested backed out, i have sold a few here and there and have shot a few here and there. now after explaining myself to people who dont matter, i would say this.....what the hell does it matter anyhow????? does it even have bearing on the thread question? if that is the focus of this comment section i think i have learned all i need to know from WOODY, TD and to those of you who also sent me pm's and testimonies of your success thank you, i know now why you didnt post any of it. the coyotes around here are pretty bothersome. man if one of em smells blood....look out. i'm in the process of trying to send pics via my cell to my email and to thuis site,,,,not quite sure why at this point i care but look for it in a bit. oh and i do need to make a correction, i only have 73 left, not counting 30 odd fixed blades so to all of you who need that to sleep better or just feel better about yourself. enjoy! it should be delicious.
So, you open a can of worms and then whine about the smell? How old are you? I'm guessing about 15.
When asked why you'd consider using mechanicals on moose, your response was "mainly because i have about 150 of them already purchased." So YOU made that an issue, quit blaming others for commenting on it.
BTW, 73 is just a tad fewer than 150.
GG
i used 100 grain exp from innerloc a complete pass thru on my moose
It is scary to think there are actually bowhunters out there who would ask this question!
READ THIS!!!!! NO SKIPPING OVER Well Mr. Ollie, and to all others reading this thread. To what do we owe our education? Who learns more, the pupil in the back row who never asks the question, or the one in the front who asks for answers? This has been an extremely hot topic for a few days. After deep consideration I have realized that I have learned alot more about the people who frequent these forums than I have about the original point of this thread. I for one am more alarmed by the possibilty of any hunter who is out there who is too proud to ask a logical question out of fear of scorn or ridicule, that's the guy I want to avoid right there. Or even worse still, the guy(or gal) who decide they know it all, and in their arrogance challenge those who dare to ask. And to those out there who decide that the message is not as important as the spelling or grammar contained in the message, you should really consider proof reading your critique before sending it on to the person to whom you are administering said critique. I have received a huge amount of PM's on this topic,of each I received, except one, all were positive in nature. So I do know there are some incredible archers and great woodsman out there in bowsite land. Contained in these threads are conversations between individual people. We should treat it as if we were in the same room, face to face. I am quite sure all of the smart@ss arrogant comments would soon be over with or someone would have their clock cleaned. It's really easy to be a "cyber bully" or a big mouth when all you are doing is clicking on little buttons. We all have imperfections and if we were to recall those before we are quick on the keys, it may turn out that in our own humility we end up helping someone else. What is the scariest thing to me Ollie.....the thought that alot of these folks are probably dads. Wow i feel sorry for the kid struggling to learn how to ride a bike or throw a football with parents like that! This concludes todays lessons in humanity...you are excused. Hoytman
And to you Noah...I will take results. My shot was perfect and the results were outstanding. The thread was asking for opinions on mechanicals for moose and I gave a first hand example of using a mechanical. If you have killed a moose...give us an example of the head you used and your results to enlighten the readers. If you have not killed a moose your cute little comment is not worth two drops of monkey pi$$.
Definitely. Using the correct mechanical BH is always best. I have used them on al ot of big game and know a lot of other guys who do but hate the backlash here so they keep quite.
Rocket stealhead 100's (1-1/4" Cut. Dia. I think) used to be the best BH every made for 80% of big game hunting in NA. Other rocket heads were better in 18% of the last 20% - typically for smaller game where a bigger cutting diameter was better.
I would use a rocket steelhead 100 for moose. 20+ years of using them. Never a problem with even one. That includes many tree stand pass-throughs and dirt.
Really? A 9 year old mech thread?
I never looked at the date. Lol
Nick,
It’s important to re-visit things that no one else has thought about in many years!! :)
I was just thinking the other day, if ol hoytman ever killed his moose or not........and if he got the rest of his broadheads sold.
I would try not to use a mech on a moose or a elk, thanks to the awesome flight characteristics of QAD exodus bh's I don't have too, that said I wouldn't use anything other that a mech on deer or bear sized game! Im guessing hoytman didn't get a moose? And bou must be going moose hunting
I've got two buddies that used mechs on elk this Year, that would tell you "don't try it".
First thing they both did when they got back, was buy fixed heads.
**Edit** Just realized this was a 9 year old thread...good to know, some things never change ;^)
elkmtngear, which mechs were they using? Like fixed heads, not all are created equal.
I have a close friend who uses Rage for everything and he's a killer. He killed a great moose in Newfoundland this year. Hit him twice at long distance and full pass throughs both shots. He also killed a dandy woody on the same trip. This was his second moose with a Rage and he's killed an elk with Rage as well. I like them for whitetails but don't have the confidence in them that he has for bigger game. Hard to argue with his success.
Dammit....how'd I get sucked in?!
I clicked.... again.
To the OP.
There truly is a ton of information, data, and videos wether or not a mechanical wil kill a moose. My personal favorite is Lee Lakoskys shot on his giant Moose.
The thing is, if you use one on a moose, take the shot and loose said moose... is it the head or the hunters fault if there is no recovery.
This really is the standard thought process for anyone who chooses to use a mechanical. After all, this is the basis for the argument in the first place.
PS: I use both types of heads. I won’t be using a mechanical in my moose hunt next year.
Have fun
LOL! You're WEAK midwest! ;-)
For some of us old guys with failing memories, these ancient threads being exhumed are like new threads again. Even from just a few weeks ago... :-)
so ... cheap knock off mechanical heads off EBAY for moose is now the question ?
I'd say ... ad this is just me .... spend the money and time after a glorious moose .... I'd want a better head
It’s an old thread but the opinions content and pros cons are pretty much the same. Just a way to get some new blood sharing thoughts without losing the infinite wisdom of prior posters
J no itching much has changed in the last 12 years. Heck even the same football team still wins 3 out of every four Super Bowls
Moose haven’t changed in nine years and seems opinions haven’t either.
I’ve witnessed several BC interior moose fall to single arrows with NAP Spitfire mechanicals.
But they are not Alaskan moose.
My buddy Ernie killed a hell of a bull fall year with a 2.1 Ti Sevr. I think there is place for them. I always carry one or two in my quiver. On windy days, open countyz follow up shots ...they have a place.
Having guided hunters that have used both.....I have seen far more wounded bulls with mechanical broadheads than successful harvested bulls.....
Go fixed blade, leave the junk home.
My eyes about popped out of the sockets when I saw Serbian shark, then I saw the date...
Bou gettin that check….;^)
Why risk a hunt of a lifetime with something your already doubting by asking that question? Buy a sharp Steel fixed head.
Fixed can also cost you an animal, just torque that bow hand a little when your excited and see how far off you can be
And a mechanical magically overcomes torquing the bow?
A mech won’t change the fact that you torqued. It just won’t go off into never-never-land because you did.
pope and young are rolling in their graves. Why not use the heart seeking heads shot out of the bows with no limbs with symmetrical doinkers. They have self stabilizing and leveling silica powder in them and the range finder comes implanted in your head. the release fires itself. you know. archery
New here on this site but am super opinionated about Mech heads. Hate em and won't allow them in ,my camp. They were made to overcome poor arrow flight. Nowadays, there is no excuse for poor arrow flight! Go ahead and flame away.
HA HA HA HA! Won't allow them in your camp! That is funny stuff right there! Ok so I won't allow A holes in mine so I guess we won't be sharing camp! Dang that sucks! Get over yorself dude.
Welcome Dave. Are you an outfitter or just if your friends shoot mechs you kick them out?
Machino…….I’m allergic to silica powder, so that’s out for me.
Thanks for the welcome. No, not an outfitter. Just a guy that enjoys helping others.
"And a mechanical magically overcomes torquing the bow?" Giving this comment, its obvious that you don't have an idea, I will explain, torque your bow arrow kicks to the left lets say and the fixed blade will plane and shoot right. Mechs are way less prone to this. A bow should always be tuned regardless. I shoot fixed for moose, likely always will.
IMO your shooting the wrong bh if your using a fixed blade for deer or bear and mech for elk or moose, although both work in both situations but not if you want the best
Just because you can doesn’t mean you should!
“pope and young are rolling in their graves. Why not use the heart seeking heads shot out of the bows with no limbs with symmetrical doinkers. They have self stabilizing and leveling silica powder in them and the range finder comes implanted in your head. the release fires itself. you know. archery”
HUH?
Love it when people use the word “obvious”. Must make them feel so knowledgeable and superior.
I think TD covered everything that really needs to be said about a dozen years ago…
Mechs have some advantages when nothing goes wrong, and some pretty huge liabilities when something DOES.
I thought through designing one, and I was able to address every liability that I could think of…. Except for the mechanical point of potential failure. I just have no idea how to bullet-proof that one…
Not that it really matters… None of my bows produce enough KE to drive a mechanical through an animal in the first place (most likely, anyway). No real desire to check that one out.
