Contributors to this thread:
Camp Larkin Hornepayne ,Ontario
Anyone been to Camp Larkin at Hornepayne ,Ontario ? If so , what do you think of bear hunting there ? Thank You for any input !!!
Just got back from Camp Larkin... It was a travesty! 17 hunters 5 bears none over 200lbs. There was one guy (18 yr. old kid just out of high school) running the camp and the baits - it was a mess. The owner made up a cock & bull story about how he couldn't be there - keep in mind this is the week of laborday 2012 - busiest week of their hunting season!! Come to find out he can't get into Canada because of a work visa. Called the day before we left and told us his wife left him and he had to stay home with the kids. Oh and BTW no one is going to cook for you so you better bring food... come to find out they got divorced in Feb and he couldn't get into CA. Their are a lot of pissed off hunters - $1,800 for the "hunt" (knocked $200 off for not providing food for the week. Got home and saw they over charged us $200 for not providing food)$300 for the license. "Guide" put me on one "bait" which hadn't been baited and never hit in 4 days that I hunted - oh ya couldn't hunt the 1st day beacuse they had too many hunters and never took us to our "stands"
These guys are frauds and as far as I'm concerned criminals. We were constantly lied to and cheated out of what we paid for. STAY AWAY from Camp Larkin. BTW the cabins are barely tolerable. two light bulbs and one plug in. When I plugged my Electric frying pan in it killed their POS generator. The claim to have WiFi but don't and haven't.
Thes guys should NOT be allowed to guide hunts in CA and I will be contacting the authorities to do my best to make sure that no one else falls prey to these assholes
Other than that, how was the hunt? 8~)
That's a shame. Camp Larkin always had a pretty good reputation. I've noticed Coop has been a little quiet lately on FB as well.
Maybe if he can get his crap together down the road he can turn things around. Sometimes though, even if things are turned around, it can take a VERY long time to recover from providing a year's worth of hunters with a terrible situation.
until ontario fixes the concept that there are no guide to hunter ratios enforced we will continue to see operations that do this.
17 guys in a week......a joke.
i hunted there (ONT) in 1987 and 88 and had 24 and 34 "buddies" sharing the camp those weeks.
in 23 baited bear hunts since the most i have shared a camp with was 4 others and in many of those hunts it was 1 or two others
Is Coop the one running Camp Larkin ?
Ok I'm going to this Camp a week from Saturday, did Coop give any indications he was returning? If you were there does anyone have the Camp phone #'s, (I've TRIED COOPS CELL) and last but not least, If the Bear hunting was not working how was the fishing, Because my guess is that I will not be getting any refund......??????
I've not hunted there but I have a couple of friends who live near Coop and know him fairly well. To be honest, the whole situation is something that is totally out of character for him. With that said, there's no excuse for what's going on there now.
I've heard MrMackZ's story above repeated almost verbatim by 2 other guys in the past 2 weeks and I think the best thing Coop could do now is to be straight with his clients, communicate with them and tell them what's going on and come up with a plan to make it right by them. Even if it meant offering another hunt for next fall at a greatly reduced price, he should - his reputation and the future of Camp Larkin depends on it now.
For the most part, depending upon his circumstances, I think most guys are pretty understanding and would be willing to cut him at least a little bit of slack but when he avoids communicating with paid up clients and breaks promises, well, that's not a good thing for anyone, especially down the road.
Whatever his deal is I hope he can get past it and put things back together for himself, his family, his clients from this year and any potential clients down the road.
Mr.Bou'bound Before you spit your words out , you should chew on them first. We are talking about Camp Larkin at Hornepayne , were not talking about the rest of the outfitters in Ontario and according to you , all outfitters in Ontario run a bad camp. I guided 16 guys this year and shot 16 bears and i can prove it. Just like any state or province there are bad and there are good outfitters. Only thing I'd suggest is reference,reference reference.
Coop is NOT running the camp!! HE IS MIA and likely in jail or at least that's where hhe should be!!He can't get into Canada!! Mitch the 18 years HS grad is "running" the camp. His CC was declined for gas in Hornepayne! I think they are plucking the bones dry and then "leaving town."
If you are going next week I would recommend you cut your losses and don't go! $300 for a bear tag and fishing license and $$$ for fuel to get there.. Call your CC company and put a hold on the deposit -tell them the Owner is MIA. Even if it were free it's not worth your time!!
You will get a call soon telling you how there is not a cook in camp and how his wife left him blah blah blah. The guy has turned to the DARK SIDE - Stay AWAY!! He may have been a good guy at one time but I'm telling you good guys dont LIE and DEFRAUD people and Mitch is doing the same thing and playing right along... Fishing is fine if you want to catch 14-17" walleyes - Take Minnows and Leachs _ Worms didn't work. Light green jig heads with twister tail and minnow - crank baits didn't work.. That's at Larkin Lake east end just around the corner from camp. Be prepared to haul a boat 20 plus miles through hell to fish anywhere else...
Feel free to contact me directly and I'll tell you every detail and you can talk to the others who were there in camp - BAD SITUATION STAY AWAY firstname.lastname@example.org
OK skull what did i spit out that was wrong.
"until ontario fixes the concept that there are no guide to hunter ratios enforced we will continue to see operations that do this."
is that true? I did not say "ALL", I said we will see operations that do that. any arguement there?
"17 guys in a week......a joke."
do you agree? i assume since you run that many over a season you would agree that many in a single week is excessive
"i hunted there (ONT) in 1987 and 88 and had 24 and 34 "buddies" sharing the camp those weeks."
this was a fact. I was there. you can't refute it. it is true.
"in 23 baited bear hunts since the most i have shared a camp with was 4 others and in many of those hunts it was 1 or two others"
this was a fact. I was there. you can't refute it. it is true.
now that each word in my post was addressed please refute where there is one inaccurate statement contained within.
"until ontario fixes the concept that there are no guide to hunter ratios enforced we will continue to see operations that do this.
ontario dose not have to fix anything the outfitters has to
does the province mandate reasonable guide hunter ratios like the western provinces do or do they still leave it up to the outfitter to do it?
It is illegal for an outfitter in MB, AB, SK to run 17 guys a week with just a couple guides!
I was there sept 1st thru 8th everything MrMackZ said is true..It was a mess all lies & you hunted stands that were already hunted. Generator turns off at 1st lite on at dark it broke. Pump broke at pump house that feeds all water. 2 guys in camp fixed that thanks again. It was just a mess and no bears shot 4 that week all under 210. Dont go hate to say!
We hunted with Coop in 07 and had no problems, 4 guys 4 bears nothing under 250# biggest was 500#, its amazing what a couple of years will do.
Thats just some of the things that went wrong have a list . l feel there are bears there just wasn't hunted right also we didn't get our 2nd stand untill 4th day..
Thats just some of the things that went wrong have a list . l feel there are bears there just wasn't hunted right also we didn't get our 2nd stand untill 4th day..
Just a quick follow up to Skulls comment about references. Coop did have good references at least my buddy who suggested we go there knew a guy personally who had been there. We all talked to Coop prior to the hunt and he talked a big story... Some red flags started going off a couple weeks before the hunt. Called him twice and sent an email via his website - NO answer for two weeks... Finally called the 3rd time and got him. I had some ?'s and got them answered but my gut was telling me something wasn't right. You don't go 2 weeks without returning clients calls who are booked to come hunt with you. Said he was up North and could get reception... Several of us made calls from camp with 1 bar on our cells but all we had to do to make calls was go a couple hundred yards to the highway and bingo... Just another part of his scam. Apparently he has no other income but this and is desperate to get all he can for as long as he can...
I feel sorry about you guys waisting time and money. i guess things went downhill very quickly. The problem with outfitters is that they overbooked and its just common sence taking just enough guys for what u can handle Even if you have a hunter guide ratio were not going to solve the problem because Most of the outfitters are overkilling on there managment areas You cannot take 100 guys on a 100 square mile area, to keep your bear population healthy you only have to take one bear per 30 square kilometers The only thing thats going to save Ontario is having a quota on your managment area. So the guy with the small area he wont be able to over kill.
even if the area could handle it going into a camp with 2 dozen guys a week, or more, is a lousy experience and one that in ONT is left up to the outfitter to voluntarily handle (or not). in all other provinces there is some regulation providing guidelines.
it sounds like skull does it right - 16 over a season - many of his peers don't get it.
Skull won't promote himself but I will ... 8~)
An Ontario outfitter that does a GREAT job:
North River Outfitters
Sad to see this.
Although I've never hunted with Coop, I've known him for a number of years and know a number of people that have hunted with him. They've all had good things to say about his camp.
Let's hope he gets his stuff together, does the right thing, and makes things right with his hunters.
Hey guys, I am a very good aquaintance of Coops and have been to Larkin many times. Unfortunately the part of the work visa , his wife leaving him and him taking care of his girls is all true. The guys in camp, ( and I was real close to gong and help but have a chemo treatment planned) are good guys and have been there before. Cory knows his stuff. It is sad to have known what happened at camp. the camp was on the verge of being an awesome place, because it was great in past. Please put yourself in his shoes with all that he was faced with in a very short time frame. Knowing this is what was going to happen I'm sure was the forefront of his mind. Bear hunting is bear hunting. I've been on at least a dozen hunts various places throughout the US and have only been succeesfull 60% of the time. I just cut my Michigan hunt short because they quit hitting. In retrospect, yes I feel for all of you that had to deal with this, this year. It is a shame what all happened, but imagine yourself with all he is faced knowing this was on the horizon. He is NOT a crook it was just a matter of alot of bad circumstances happening at the same time.
I disagree wtnut. Yeah he may be having problems in his personal life, but he is still suppose to be providing a service he has been paid to provide. He has to be like every one else who works for a living and keep his personal problems at home and work when your suppose to be working. May sound harsh, but not many employers will put up with similar behavior so why should a paying customer. When someone is paying for an outfitter they are the same as an employer in my view.
I agree with mu1147 if he's so honest then why lie mitch said he hasn't been in camp at all this yr he's a liar & a crook in my eyes
IF he gives back the money he is a guy in a bad situation who has integrity. If he keeps the money and or grossly underdelivers he is a crook with personal issues.
He won't even return calls !! So whats that make him?? As far as wtnut you need to find better friends..
Bad deal man i feel bad for the hunters who get hosed!do not feel bad for outfitter,in imo why would anyone give this guy another chance,alls he has to do is answer phone and tell guys whats going on.
I agree with you 100% mu1147 all the outfitters that they steal money like this guy without providing the service they should be charged with robber, people work hard for there money if he cant provide the service for any reason he should give back the money to the guys
The commnication issue is a big one and completely agree with the fact there needs to be more of it. I do know his plans did not include what is going on. He has put everything he had/has into the place. It is a bad situation and I truly hope he makes it right with the best of his ability. I have been through hell dealing with leukemia the last three years and have had friends to lean on, so in times like this sometimes friends need other friends to lean on. So as to finding better friends? (what good are we if we if we are only there for the good times?) It is a glitch in life and in the big scheme of things its one things that one can move on from. Sorry if it grinds someone, but with all I"ve been through I now try to not get so worked up over some things that in the end really dont matter. I understand the whole thing, I've been around the hunting industry for years and completely sypathize with those had hunts up there this year. Again, hopefully he will figure out a way to make it right. Its a beautiful sunny day here in Michigan and I'm still above the dirt so My wife , kids and I are going to go enjoy it.
Ok he e-mailed me and said he was sorry also told me to expect a full refund. We will see, I decided not to go up just thought at this point it was wasted money.. I hope he follows through if not well I'll make sure he never does this to anybody else. He is in direct breach of contract and lives in the U.S. Larceny is Larceny any way you look at it, and he took my money across state lines witch makes it Federal offense. So he is given the chance to refund or I will press it. Only time will tell and if he refunds as he said he will I will repost and update.NOTE: I'm not out here whining about this. This is just unprofessional and it's not my first outfitted hunt, I've bow hunted Bear, ELK, Mule Deer,Antelope all with great outfitters and all successful I did have a bad experience in Ontario on a Moose Hunt with Lecuyer's Lodge in Nestor falls, No Moose Go there to Fish not to Hunt. CEHOYT
That's some good news... I hope the refund occurs for you as well as for those that actually made the trip. For Coop, if he wants to make a go of it down the road it's about the only option he's got.
Dont count on refund we still haven't heard from him. He won't even refund are food money. He said he would has he no calling attorney today . I can't believe I half to do this on something I love to do it just put you where you don't want to trust outfitters.also looking into troy the guy that sign my papers i guess its coops partner if he had to sign my papers makes him responsible to let him & coop hash it out in court thats where its going anyhow also i caught mitch signing those papers you have to be a owner to do that. Probably why coop change web & said mitch is now a partner think its alittle late for that.
Elder... While I certainly understand your frustration, to start getting attorneys involved that could potentially ruin Coop's opportunity to EVER get back on his feet and worse yet, get some young kid in trouble who, because of not much more than youthful exuberance stepped out of line, well, could it possibly be a little much?
Again, I've been there myself several times with other outfitters in Ontario. Yup, it was really, really frustrating to have it occur and absolutely - i think he should either offer another hunt or refund your money. Yet, looking back, as angry as I was when i experienced much the same, I'm not sure I'd have wanted to rain down consequences on either the outfitter or someone associated with him that could potentially have ruined his life.
Yup, definitely makes ya a little gun shy but there are some good outfitters in Ontario... North River Outfitters mentioned above is one - I'm sure there are others.
Ibow... There's more to this story we hunted Ontario 2 yr ago an had a outfitter not bait our stands we pulled the barrels out of the mud & logs. I hunted there the yr b4 and was successful so i decided to go back. He was so busy he didn't have time to take us to are stands ask me if I remember how to get to them. I did thats when i found barrels in mud. Right then you no your hunt is over. We told coop this and he said not to worry this is why im not backing off . So if this means closing larkin so be it .His call not mine and as far as Mitch & Troy if coop cares he won't let this happen to them. AGAIN his Call.
i will like to know if you guys ask the outfitters how many people are on the camp the same week you are up? and the other most important question is that is this camp BOW HUNTING ONLY?
Eider – In my last post I addressed you as Elder. You couldn’t possibly be any older than me. 8~) Sorry bout’ that.
I understand your frustration. Believe me I’ve been there on a couple of occasions and I know how you feel. Sometimes the best part of a hunt is the preparation/anticipation and you’re all fired up, you’ve shot your bow for months and months on end, you’ve sent in your $ and you get there and it’s a disaster. Not good.
Yet, looking back at the times those situations occurred, I can kind of chuckle a bit about it now. On each occasion, despite how bad it was, the guys I went with and I made the best of it, still had a good time – lots of laughs. In the end, who really wins in a situation like this? You could probably get F. Lee Bailey involved but you probably won’t re-Coop (pun intended, LOL) your loses but it may serve to really, really hurt him and those associated with him for a long, long time to come. Sometimes I don’t know if that’s such a good thing either.
Either way ... best wishes in your efforts to resolve the situation. Again, the best thing that could potentially happen now is for Coop to step up, do the right thing and COMMUNICATE his situation/circumstances to ALL involved, refund all the money to those who were unsuccessful or offer another hunt for down the road. I sure hope that occurs.
Skull.. the camp is open hunt with whatever you like. No we didn't ask how many. like I said we were successful the yr b4 & we camped out in BMA away from camp. I heard don't no if its true he had 50 + in camp seem alittle far fetched but we never saw guide until about 4 th day. At least he offered a free hunt to make up for it. We turn it down just didn't want to take chance again with him. We asked coop how many . He told us around 8 turn out to be 17 . You cant win over the mighty dollar...
This is my first post here but needless to say, this is disturbing news for me. I and four of my friends booked a hunt here for Sept. 2013 at the Indianapolis boat and sport show on February 25th of this year. Now I don't know whether I should wait to see if things improve for next year or pursue a refund of my $500.00 deposit. I'd hate to see my friends lose their money. None of us can afford to waste money on a bad outfitter. We've saved a long time for this hunt. I would really be upset if I thought he knew that things were not going well when he sold us this hunt. In your opinions, how should I handle this?
Waygood - I sent you a PM.
Start now to try to get your money back. We still are trying to get are food money back. I wouldn't. Sent him anymore that's why & how this thread got started . He gave us all the same BS don't go for it take money & go elsewhere.
Ok so COOP has pulled down his site and changed his voice mail on his phone so my guess is I'm kissing $1250.00 goodbye, I did not go up and COOP said he would refund MY GUESS IS (NOT).I would tell any-one in west central Michigan to also stay away from Grand Valley Sporting Goods because he is talking up Coop's camp: It's as pure as BS gets if you read his post. I think Coop lives in that area. My next call is the state of Michigan Attorney General, I really hate doing it but when a guy promises he's sending the refund and suddenly the web site comes down and no way to contact.... well you have to what needs to be done.
CE - sent you a couple of PM's.
I'm with waygood, I'm concerned about the integrity of Coop! I also seen where Grand Valley was talking about Coops' camp! Either Coop is playing favorite, or he needs to begin to contact some people! Hunting is one of the last few luxuries the working man has to look forward to. It would be a shame if Coop was working against the confidence of the public and his facebook page!
He don't have any Integrity if he did we (meaning all of us) wouldn't be having this discussion.
Word to the wise:
I've been doing this bear hunting thing for a LONG time, and kept records of costs associated. Hesitate before you go on a baited bear hunt that is under the $2000 mark. In order to make money for that price, an outfitter has to cut alot of corners.
I guess it also matters what size of a bear you are looking for. To just shoot "a" bear does not take tons of effort. To be selective, see multiple bears, and likely take a mature one home, takes much more effort. More effort means more dollars when it comes to baited bear hunts.
All in all....if you are not picky in size or numbers, spend less money. In most cases however, the extra money spent will pay off.
Best luck afield!
Some very, very good advice there Ryan. I've obviously never been an outfitter but have been on quite a few bear hunts of the Camp Larkin variety and now, after having spent a little more on a few hunts, I've found it's much better to go less often and get a quality hunt.
With that said, I still feel pretty bad for those above who got the shaft.
Thanks for all the responses to my post. I have made several attempts to call Coop but without any response. I made the deposit on my hunt for 2013 with a credit card, so I think I'm just going to call my credit card company, claim fraud, and let them go after my money. I dont know what else to do. If anyone here ever gets in touch with Coop, please let me know.
Good luck.... I hope everybody gets their money back. Its probably a good thing for you & your buddies at least your not losing all. It was so bad he started watering down the molasses. I guess he was running out. Hell he ran out of 5 gal buckets. Had to stomp the bush to find some. Pretty BAD. Well good luck .
My buddy and I paid Coop up front for this hunt. Sorry to say he did not come through for us. I am hoping to get my money back. Has anybody received money back from him? Let me know. Thanks
If you paid Coop any money - it's gone. Sorry to say but you're actually money ahead if you can believe it -because you didn't spend the rest of the cost of the trip to no where. I've read some comments about how we should be sensitive to Coop. This is absolutely ridiculous. If Coop slept with your wife - would you say it's not his fault - it was your wife's and he should be forgiven because it might ruin his marriage!! I get he may have been a good guy at sometime in the past but those days are long gone. The best thing we all can do is the same thing his wife did - LEAVE THIS Bastard and make sure he NEVER "guides" again and do our best to make sure he doesn't RIP ANYONE ELSE OFF - This holds True For MITCH too - He's a lying SOS too!
It will be interesting to see what happens to his BMA's up there ...
I'm probably going to take him to small claims court. Somebody has to make him responsible for this fiasco he caused my buddy and I this year. I should have known when he didn't return my calls and e-mails about questions we had.
Gentlemen, I read with utter amazement how you all have been treated with respect to your bear hunts. First of all, you do not need to spend over $2000 to get a quality bear hunt in northern Ontario, we have been providing quality bear hurts for over 30 years and we charge $1595...this includes your license. We are just north of Hornepayne - another two hours up 631 then west on Hwy. 11. Last year we had a total of 19 hunters and took down 18 bear. My husband does this all himself and most of our hunters are repeat guests. We are a small, family run hunting and fishing camp and EVERY hunter leaves here happy, even if they didn't shoot a bear. My husband, Michael, works with each hunter individually and we never take over 25 hunters per season. Last year we had 3 well over 400 pounds and the year before we had a 600 pound one shot by an 83 yr. old gentlemen...it was his third bear from here. We have tons of references and would be very happy to help you if we can. I have booked only 13 hunters this year and we are expecting some amazing bear. We are a hiousekeeping camp so we don't provide meals, but our cabins are beautiful and you can cook for yourselves. (you wouldn't want to eat my cooking anyway ..haha). Check us out...www.klotzlakecamp.com. I am so sorry to hear all the terrible things and way you all have been treated and I assure you that's NOT how we operate around here. Best of luck to you and please feel free to contact me if I can help you in any way...even if it'sj just providing some local nformation for you. Good hunting....
Sad to hear about this but frankly doesnt suprise me... Pretty sure coop is kicked out of canada. Its ashame to hear such a nice place ran into the ground reputation wise. Myh father had this camp in the late 80s and early to mid 90s and I think we did well in that time and i kniw we ran quite a few baits and usually had a good turn out on bears and at that time had the spring hunt going as well. It has to all go into preparation and good bait! I still run a bait sales and i kmnow first hand if you cut corners and dont bait regualrly and often your bear will leave! A good outfitter and personal friend of the family is Rick Dickson he is based out of Wawa and has all different places in ontario for hunts and is pretty succesful outfitter ... http://www.nlmotel.com/dicksonsbear.htm I know if you choose Rick you wont be dissapointed .
There are as many foreign owned camps as there are Canadian owned in Ontario and elsewhere in Canada. A camp North of me is owned by a gentlemen from Wisconsin. He did an excellent job at running his fishing and hunting camp.
After doing many shows and booking many customers he gets slapped by a domestic abuse charge in the U.S. by his wife. All of a sudden he has a full camp but can't be there to receive his customers. He lost his work visa. Again many mad fishermen and hunters.
Another foreign owned camp owner was in trouble because he used his personal vehicle for baiting bears. His vehicle was registered in his home state, not in Ontario. All the customers riding in his vehicle were not covered if there was a mishap, because of not being registered in Ontario. Another got in trouble because he had his 22 year old son running baits for him. His son did not get a work visa.
What is the answer to this, I really don't know. It doesn't take much to be denied into Canada. A work visa is hard to get at anytime!!! Heard of this same problem with an outfitter in Saskachewan.
I noticed one camp last year advertising that his camp was Canadian owned and operated.
A Ontario BMA license holder has to sign in person for the form 33's when picked up at the omnr office. You can have others issue form 33's ( fill them out) but that person must be registered when paid for and signed for by the bma license holder. A BMA license holder must be in Canada for a certain amount of time each year to hold a license to have a bma.
Some bma's are restricted to a certain number of hunters some are not. There are many factors in deciding the numbers such as how many resident hunters also hunting in a assigned area.
The judges gavel is about to fall on a outfitter just east of Vermilion Bay. There are about 40 game related charges. Guides pled guilty in May 2013. It was a on going investigation for the past five years including under cover U.S. agents.
This same outfitter is at the show I am at right now selling trips. The outfitter LIVES in Wisconsin and OWNS his business in Ontario.
I will announce his name after the final court case coming up.
Steve Herbeck of Stevens point wisconsin, now past owner of ANDY MYERS LODGE in Vermilion Bay Ontario, has been fined over $34000.00 for illegal activities.
Google ckdrnews and its the first article.
His customers and guides were hit very hard with fines . Up to $72000.00.
Anyone still looking for Coop he is back at it and not very far from his last fiasco http://whitefishlodge.ca/ look him up and give him your love as A Hornepayne Outfitter myself their is nothing that bothers me more then what he did.
Another Bowsiter mentioned this to me lately. It’s hard to believe Coop is back in “business”.
When I think about all the decent outfitters that are sponsors here and the job they do for their clients, it’s just a shame.
Initially, I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. Not anymore. It saddens me that he has somehow gotten himself in a position to take advantage of even more people.
Thanks for posting this Canuck.
Saw him at the Grand Rapids Mi show this weekend booking hunts. He was behind the Whitefish Lodge booth trying to sell bear hunts. I asked him his name and took forever to answer. Then I asked if he was Larkin Lake, he said yes!!! He was also selling cow moose hunts.
I cannot wait to read about the people he burned showing up at shows.
It’s just hard to believe that between Michigan, the US and Canadian laws, statutes & procedures, this guy is back in business. Sad thing is, show season is about over. I’m sure he sold a few hunts. For whoever bought them, I hope it works out but the odds are not in their favor. The guy is a demonstrated crook.